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7,407 comments Add your comment
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:17 pm
As a result, even though his batting average dropped 43 points, he essentially maintained the same .370+ OBP, while also maintaining the same .200 ISOP. BH
I’d rather have the hits if the obp is the same a hit is usually more valuable than a walk
cricket
December 25th, 2009
7:19 pm
Merry Christmas All !!
Enjoy the chronicles of Mets miseries –
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bitterbill/2009/12/the-bitterest-met-moments-of-t.html
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
7:20 pm
I am wondering who else the Braves will sign for their bench. We know they tried to sign Ross Gload before he signed with the Phillies. Fernando Tatis seems like a good possibility as he can play 1B, 3B, LF, RF and pinch hit, hits right handed and has some power.
Ernest
December 25th, 2009
7:20 pm
Thanks for helping out with that, Braveheart. I’m not here much and did not know Brad’s name should be known by most on this blog.
Cherokee is right, Schafer needs ABs in AAA before we deem him ‘major league ready’. The same applies to Heyward and Freeman. Expecting someone to make a successful jump from AA to the Big Leagues is ludicrous. Can it happen, sure. I don’t think our players are ready for that.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
7:22 pm
I agree that Schafer needs some time in AAA because he really needs to play full-time for a while and not sit on the bench. He is still young and I am confident that he will develop into a solid major leaguer. I expect to see him in Atlanta in Sept. 2010.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:23 pm
up 265/355/450 on a regular basis, with his strong defense at a key position, I’m fine with that. It would make him a plenty valuable part of the team.
oh I agree, I wasn’t dissing him.plus defense and a decent bat in center is aok
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:26 pm
Fernando Tatis seems like a good possibility as he can play 1B, 3B, LF, RF and pinch hit, hits right handed and has some power. Longtime
might not be a bad idea.cheaper than DeRo?
Rabid Rascal
December 25th, 2009
7:26 pm
I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas. Be thankful you are not in South Dakota dealing with the blizzard that has our interstate closed from border to border. I guess that allows me to be on here since no family was able to make it over.
Can’t wait to see what the Braves do. I got a feeling there is still something big coming up.
Braveheart
December 25th, 2009
7:26 pm
I’d rather have the hits if the obp is the same a hit is usually more valuable than a walk
Cherokee, I agree, especially since the 43 point drop in batting average caused a 42 point drop in slugging %, even though he essentially had the same exact power rate both years, with his ISOP only increasing a point from one year to the next.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:28 pm
I enjoyed the post BH
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
7:30 pm
From everything I’ve read this isn’t an option but I’m still going to endorse this idea….
Not quite sure what we have left in terms of $ to spend but I thought I read we were at around $13-$14 million under the $95 million budget? Would that be correct?
If so, deal Melky for a minor leaguer to clear that extra $3 million and give Holliday a 4 year, $64 contract and see what he does. I believe that’s the extent of what he’s been offered so far (I could be wrong) but Matt Holliday would make this club a serious World Series contender while at the same time energize an extremely bored fanbase which would, in turn, improve attendance significantly.
I know for a fact that several friends of mine and my brother have stated they’re not renewing their season ticket packages this year because the team has basically become so stale.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:34 pm
nolie, some people just aren’t able to get past ERA and wins,even though as you said this season surely pointed up the difference between performance and both with JJ ans JK getting shafted and Lowe coming out on the good side.
You know Nolan Ryan only averaged about one more win than loss over his entire career.sometimes things just don’t even out.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
7:34 pm
Cherokee, I see little chance the Braves will sign DeRosa, since he has been offered 2/12 by the Giants and because he pretty much duplicates what Infante give us. DeRosa has more power, but Infante is signed for about 2 million a year.
keylargo
December 25th, 2009
7:38 pm
McCann and Francoeur jumping from AA to MLB made people think that every prospect, especially the ones they liked, were ready to skip AAA. I think it was desperation to continue the playoff streak that caused the front office to promote all those Baby Braves. I would be very interested to know how many of them came up from AA and how many from AAA.
I think it was Nolie who said that 95% of prospects come up with some AAA experience. I certainly hope Heyward and Schafer start the year in AAA and come up when their stats show they deserve it and not a game sooner.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
7:41 pm
Heyward appears to be that rare breed that is ready at such an early age. If he’s ready after this spring training (as in he absolutely rakes during March), I hope he’s promoted to the parent club and given a starting position (or at least a platoon).
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
7:43 pm
Keylargo – only very special prospects can successfully skip AAA. Clearly, Schafer couldn’t. Heyward may be able to. We’ll see in just a few months (the snow melted here in western NC, so I can think about Spring again………
Ernest
December 25th, 2009
7:45 pm
TommyP, that’s what happened with Schafer last year. Heyward needs to start the season in AAA. It does not make sense to be in the Bigs unless you are starting, given his age. Let him get some ABs in AAA. If he is a good as all of us hope he is, he will be promoted. Let’s not rush him and put him in a bad situation that could stunt his development. We did that last year, let’s not do it again…
keylargo
December 25th, 2009
7:48 pm
TommyP – The only problem with “raking in March” is that you are facing MLB starters in the first 3 innings, marginal players in the middle innings and prospects in the late innings much of the time. Of course their are exception later in the Spring, but succes in March definitely does equate to success in April and May.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
7:51 pm
It seems to me that the Braves are staying very flexible with Heyward by not making any major long-term commitments to other outfielders, yet adding enough depth, so that they don’t HAVE to promote him in April. I fully expect the Braves to add at least one more outfielder this offseason, probably someone for 2 million or less and probably wihtout a long term commitment.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:53 pm
If he’s ready after this spring training (as in he absolutely rakes during March), I hope he’s promoted to the parent club and given a starting position (or at least a platoon). Tommy P
I hope they don’t start him up here, but it looks more like that is a possibility than it appeared to be 3 months ago.I think he might come up and do ok, but if they wait a while they will basically have him an extra year at the end of his intro time when he will probably be more productive than as a rookie.
KeyLargo I think it was nolie and I looked a bit and 95% was probably a conservative estimate, by far the greatest percentage get at least some AAA action.There are some who might not miss it, but t isn’t going to hurt them a bit.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
7:53 pm
Christmas duties done, great NFL game on (go Titans!), beer in hand and a little Braves talk…
I wonder if a team will sign Chris Duncan and Shelley Duncan and platoon them?
Seeing Jose Valverde still out there on the market pisses me off from a Braves standpoint.
How many on here believe that Wren will definitely sign a starting LF with the money left?
Piedmont Blues
December 25th, 2009
7:54 pm
LongtimeBravesFan,
DeRo (.767 career OPS) is a much more valuable player than Infante (.701 career OPS). Neither guy’s likely to win a Gold Glove and they can’t really run, so the big difference between them is offensively. And DeRo’s a better player.
I think some folks were wowed because he was hot in April and May.
DeRosa may not be worth $6 million/season for this team, but he’s still better.
Fernando Tatis? Hmmm. Sure won’t command $6 million or probably even $2 million …
mattdrum
December 25th, 2009
7:56 pm
RIP Vic Chesnutt.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
7:57 pm
Heyward raked last spring training if my memory is correct. Then he raked in A, AA…. From everything that’s been written of him, he’s ready. No, spring training success doesn’t guarantee success but it sure beats the hell out of .118.
His plate discipline is amazing, a huge indicator for determining if a kid is ready for the Show.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:57 pm
It seems to me that the Braves are staying very flexible with Heyward by not making any major long-term commitments to other outfielders, yet adding enough depth, so that they don’t HAVE to promote him in April. Longterm
I feel the same way. They can but don’t have to start him up here. as KeyLargo stated spring at bats are not the est guide, even the veterans are often working on weaknesses while pitching
Braveheart
December 25th, 2009
7:59 pm
Thanks Cherokee.
Ernest, sorry for seeming snippy.
Juan Perez is a lefty with velocity, but he struggles to find the strike zone and isn’t getting any better on the wrong side of 30. He’ll bounce around for a few more years, perhaps, but I don’t see him being an effective major leaguer.
Yeah, I saw this Perez guy pitch in the minors this year, and I was like, uh, how come a lefty reliever who regularly gasses it at 93/94 mph ain’t in the big leagues? What the hell is that guy’s problem? Usually, if a lefty reliever can get it above 85, it seems like they’re in the majors for 20 years. But I guess there are a million inexplicable wastes of talent like that littered all over the minors, never developing the control, or command, or breaking pitch, or offspeed pitch or mental makeup to stick in the majors. Don’t know what exactly that guy’s problem is, but at least he was fun to watch and think about that one day I saw him.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
7:59 pm
Anyone know the amount we’re under the $95 million magic number?
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
8:01 pm
Piedmont Blues, Tatis made 1.7 million last year, so could probably be signed for that or less. there may be others bench players out there, but Tatis would seem to fit our needs.
TommyP, I say 5% or less chance the Braves sign astarting LF. I think they’ll get another bench player who can play OF and 1B.
Duncans might be worthy oof a spring training invite/minor league contract, but I think that is why the Braves signed Mitch Jones.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:01 pm
And if I see one more person referring to the Dunn kid that we just acquired as our new lefty out of the pen or a future closer, I’m gonna puke. He has some serious work to be done before he reaches the Bigs.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
8:02 pm
His plate discipline is amazing, a huge indicator for determining if a kid is ready for the Tommy P
his plate discipline has been great from the start but he probably wasn’t ready back then
that part of his game reminds me of a young Chipper, he knew the value of it right away too. of course he cheated, his daddy was a coach
Braveheart
December 25th, 2009
8:02 pm
Waiting for RHR’s inevitable “DOB mentions Vic Chesnutt one day, and WALAA, DOB jinxes him, and the dude’s dead two days later.”
Ernest
December 25th, 2009
8:02 pm
It’s all good Braveheart! It’s good to find a blog with knowledgeable baseball fans. I’ve been following the Braves since the early 70’s, through all the downs and ups of the years. At the end of the day, I want to see the Braves do well with player moves and bring another WS to the city. I believe I will see another one in my lifetime.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
8:03 pm
According to DOB yesterday, he thinks the Braves have $7-10 million to spend. Most folks when they calculate salaries forget to add signing bonuses and incentives. Those can easily add millions.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:03 pm
LongtimeBravesfan: I agree with you. All of that money cleared from payroll and I don’t believe we’ll see that “big bat” added to the lineup.
And attendance isn’t going to improve, either.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:05 pm
If it’s $10 million, dealing Melky would up it to $13 million, if that’s correct.
Getting a Matt Holliday would change this franchise big time.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
8:06 pm
And if I see one more person referring to the Dunn kid that we just acquired as our new lefty out of the pen or a future closer, I’m gonna puke. He has some serious work to be done before he reaches the Bigs
amen to that, somehow a lot of posters have gotten the idea that he is a lot better than in reality.I saw him pitch a few times and he can bring it pretty good but control was all over the place and secondary pitches were very inconsistent
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
8:08 pm
I’d much rather have a good TEAM without any big name stars (like second half of 2009) than a star or two on a mediocre team (like the Mets). It’s a lot easier to sign a big star than it is to build a good team. Ultimately you need both (like the Phillies have), but I like the way the Braves are building since Wren took over.
Tomahawkin
December 25th, 2009
8:09 pm
P. Lentz
Heyward wil not start the season on the regular season roster, “Bank On It” especially after his limited play in the Arizona Fall league due to injury…
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:09 pm
That’s what I’m talking about, Cherokee. Just ’cause a guy throws 94 doesn’t mean a damn thing. Especially for a situational lefty. With THAT job, control better be the least of your concerns.
Just an aside but I took my girlfriend to physical therapy the other day and Marlins prospect Brett Carroll was there. We were talking some baseball, obviously, and he said that he is real good friends with Matt Diaz. Said he’s the coolest guy around. Also said Wes Helms is a prankster of epic proportions.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
8:11 pm
Dunn is, at best, out third lefty out of the pen, after Wagner and O’Flaherty. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Reyes is given a chance to make the bullpen in 2010.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
8:12 pm
Getting a Matt Holliday would change this franchise big time. Tommy P
even 13 wouldn’t be near enough, just don’t see that as even a possibility.
I am also not quite sold that he is worth the 16-18 million lotsa years deal he will likely get.He helped convince me some with his year with the Cards, but that’s a lot of money for too long a time IMO
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:14 pm
LongtimeBravesfan: The Braves (and Wren) just aren’t getting it. You and I are baseball enthusiasts, obviously. But Atlanta doesn’t have too many diehards in any professional sport so the product on the field is essential. Atlanta needs entertainment, excitement…. Look at the Hawks. They sold out the Omni back in the day with ‘Nique, Spud, and that young, exciting group years ago. Then they filled the roster with a solid TEAM and nobody went to see them. Look at them now… that’s exciting baskeball, there.
Braves are the same way. There are just too many transplants that don’t view the Braves very passionately. We’re team #2 or #3 for far too many Atlantans. So….give the product a little boost.
Matt Holliday would change everything for this franchise. Everybody in that lineup would be better with him included.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
8:15 pm
Ernest, yes the Braves were pretty bad throughout most of the 70s and 80s. The last 4 years are nothing compared to then.
Braveheart
December 25th, 2009
8:16 pm
DeRo (.767 career OPS) is a much more valuable player than Infante (.701 career OPS). Neither guy’s likely to win a Gold Glove and they can’t really run, so the big difference between them is offensively. And DeRo’s a better player.
Yeah, but Dero can’t back up SS anymore like Infante can, which is important since Yunel seems to have the kind of body and physical style of play that are likely gonna cause him to miss 15 to 20 games a year. Dero has only played 9 games at SS over the last 4 seasons combined. Infante can also supposedly back up in center, which nobody supposes Dero can. Also, even though Dero can play second, he played it pretty bad defensively the last few years. Infante’s ability to backup short, second and center make Infante more valuable than Dero to this team up the middle as a backup. Dero is more of a corner infielder/outfielder backup at this point. They’d likely compliment each other well as backups.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:18 pm
Cherokee: Never said $13 million would do it but that was the total we’d be at if DOB’s numbers are correct. I just find it hard to believe that that’s all we have after dealing $11.5 in Vazquez and a few others that are gone.
Let’s say we are at $13 million, though. If $16 million per year will net Matt Holliday, go for it. Matt Holliday’s numbers were down big time in Oakland ’cause his leg kick was gone. Once he corrected that, he went on a tear in Oakland that continued in St.Louis.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
8:18 pm
Braves are the same way. There are just too many transplants that don’t view the Braves very passionately. We’re team #2 or #3 for far too many Atlantans. So….give the product a little boost. Tommy P
I agree completely that is a large part of the attendance problem. When I was there I knew many more people who were not Braves fans than I knew who were.All them damn northern carpetbaggers
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
8:21 pm
Tommy I didn’t know that about his leg kick in Oakland
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:24 pm
Cherokee: Yeah, I went to the Falcons/Eagles game a few weeks ago and was amazed at the crowd for Philly. Absolutely amazing.
His leg kick in Colorado was huge. Then he switches it to barely a kick in Oakland, they figure it out, he goes back to yesteryear and voila…massive stats.
Matt Holliday is a “baseball player.” That guy just plays the way it should be played. The balance our lineup would have with him in it? World Series contender.
Redstick19
December 25th, 2009
8:26 pm
$13 million definitely won’t be enough to lure Holliday… but it might just be enough to land a Bay in Atlanta. But that would be cutting budget pretty close and leave no room for improvement in mid-season, so that probably kills that thought. Bay has made it clear he doesn’t want to play for the Mets, so why not make an offer- the worst that can happen is he turns it down. Then we move on.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:30 pm
Redstick19: I agree that $13 mil won’t do it for Holliday. I’m suggesting we go a bit above that OR be creative and create that extra space. I don’t believe Holliday has gotten an offer above $16.5 mil annually.
Bay is the same. If you can’t lure Holliday, try Bay. (though I feel a lot better with giving that money to Holliday) I don’t care for the wiggle room at mid-season. If you don’t promote Heyward initially, HE’S your mid-season improvement. Why wait ’til mid-season to have your best product on the field?????
Piedmont Blues
December 25th, 2009
8:36 pm
Cherokee,
The Braves became a mid-market, regional (rather than national) franchise when Time Warner lost interest in the team and dropped regular broadcasts on TBS. No telling how many casual fans around the country became Braves fans when there were 150 games a year on the same channel. These fans would travel to Atlanta from all over the South or even the lower Midwest to see the team in Atlanta or make shorter road trips to see the Braves play away games. With so many games on regional sports networks, there’s no draw outside the immediate Atlanta area for the club.
I can understand why the Braves don’t want to bust the budget on a Bay or a Holliday, given the financial considerations. Signing a Bay or a Holliday in and of itself would not boost attendance to 3 million a year. The population base isn’t big enough to draw people the way the team could when the Braves, Cubs, and Mets were the only teams on TV all season long and could draw fan bases well outside their geographic regions.
Steve from OH
December 25th, 2009
8:36 pm
BH–good post on Schafer. Good to see you posting again.
Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas, and my best to all of you for the New Year.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:38 pm
Piedmont Blues: I’m being lazy….what was our attendance last year?
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:41 pm
Just looked it up….we were at 2.37 million last year. That’s with a team that looked out of playoff contention for quite awhile until the late season surge.
Matt Holliday would put us over 3 million, no doubt. First, the excitement and hype would put us on ESPN and MLB channel as a real contender. Second, we’d be a much better team from the start and a better record will mean more fans.
I LOVE the Braves but I haven’t bought a ticket in several years. (live in Knoxville)
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
8:45 pm
TommyP………….Well said 7:30pm posting. Even though the Braves will probably not sign Holliday, I believe that his signing would do so much to help the Braves both on and off the field.
Instead of being bold and making a statement to the fans that Braves ownership is serious about winning and putting an entertaining product on the field……….the mantra seems to be “we have a set budget, dont go over it.”. The ironic thing is that many fans seem to follow lock in step with it.
Braveheart
December 25th, 2009
8:51 pm
I don’t think Holliday has the charismatic persona or game needed to revitalize the fan base. He’s really not that famous of a player to capture the casual fan’s attention. The Braves were winning earlier this decade, and added a black semi-superstar like Gary Sheffield, scored over 900 runs one season, and attendance WENT DOWN, a 400,000 fans a season decrease from the day Sheff arrived ’til he left, a decline of 5,000 fans a game, about a 16% decrease in attendance.
It really wasn’t until Frenchy and McCann showed up in 2005 that attendance went back up 5,000 fans a game. It’s gonna take the Braves roaring out of the gate, and Heyward and Hanson very quickly tearing it up and becoming larger than life in their game and maybe in their personalities as well to get the attendance spike you all think is possible.
It really is gonna take winning, plus either a larger than life homegrown or two and/or a larger than life free agent (who you know is gonna be around a while). Holliday just ain’t that guy. He’d be a helluva player. He’d make them win alot, and maybe the residual effect of that would be a slight attendance spike to some degree, but I’m afraid he ain’t gonna capture the casual fan’s imagination. He’s really good, but not that good, and he ain’t famous whatsoever.
Ask your mother, grandmother, aunt, sister, girlfriend, wife, daughter, niece who Matt Holliday is (don’t ask though if they are of the devout McFann, RHR, Roman Gal, Bosslady variety). The blank stare they give you will tell you everything you need to know about how much Matt Holliday himself won’t cause an attendance increase with the casual fan base that is currently staying away. Honestly, sad to say, but most of those women in your life may know who Melky Cabrera is much more than they know who Matt Holliday is.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
8:51 pm
Tomahawkin………I agree, if I had to bet, with the way the roster is taking shape, Jason Heyward will start the year in Triple A. If he rakes it, then the Braves will call him up in June (like Tommy Hanson).
However, if he absolutely smashes the ball in Spring Training, the Braves will have a hard time (from a PR standpoint) not starting him on Opening Day.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:51 pm
Lentz: I refuse to buy tickets anymore for two reasons: (1) my brother has always had tickets for me in the past (2) I want more for my money than just fundamental baseball (which we don’t necessarily play). I want excitement, I want power, I want to see star power in our roster. We lack that…big time.
We have no speed so we don’t run very much.
Our power is nothing prodigious so the long ball isn’t there regularly.
They get me there ’cause I’m a die-hard Braves fan and I absolutely love baseball. Can’t rely on that anymore. The die-hards are few in Atlanta and the baseball-lovers are the older folks, not the younger folks.
Give the fans something that they’ll WANT to go see.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
8:56 pm
Piedmont Blues……..While Jason Bay would help supply power to our line-up….he wouldnt have much of an impact on ticket sales. Dude is pretty laid back with a business like approach to the game. We have a team full of players like that.
What we need is a spark, a presence both on and off the field. I feel that the casual fan would be more inclined to see the Braves play (thereby increasing team revenue to support signing Holliday) if Holliday was who we went after, instead of Jason Bay.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
8:58 pm
Braveheart: I couldn’t disagree with your more.
Bad analogy. You’re comparing a city that was SO spoiled from the winning over the years that attendance was destined to go down to a city now that doesn’t have a winner nor does it have anything exciting to go see. The Braves fans are hungry again since the playoff drought is starting to accumulate years to it. But c’mon…Braves fans were so spoiled that attendance could not keep up with the pace it had. Turner Field was a novelty and then that wore off.
Let’s get to the elephant in the room as well. Gary Sheffield came to Atlanta with a bit of a reputation as a malcontent (though we never saw it in Atlanta). Fans were NOT going to come to the games just for him. Atlanta fans are like that. There’s also the race issue. They’ll flock to see a white superstar in baseball….it’s a different kind of fan.
Also, I could ask Mom, Grandma, girlfriend, etc. who Gary Sheffield is and they wouldn’t have a clue. That’s a bogus argument as well. Only a Barry Bonds or A-Rod is going to stir that crowd. C’mon, man. You can do better than that.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
9:00 pm
TommyP…….how many of those 2.37 mil tickets that the Braves “sold” in 2009 were basic giveaways. Watching the Braves on Direct TV’s MLB package, there were many a night where hundreds of seats were filled by youth groups and other disadvantaged types (more so than you see with teams who regularly pack their stadiums). I cant imagine that those types of people are going to spend cold hard cash on concessions and memorabilia.
I dont recall seeing many sold out nights where Turner Field was rocking.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:00 pm
Oh boy…now my lengthy response isn’t showing.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:01 pm
Paul: Then that goes for every club. If you’re not going to count Atlanta’s 2.37, then throw out everyone else’s attendance figures as well.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:02 pm
Braveheart: Sent you a lengthy reply but it won’t show. Want the Cliffs Notes version?
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:06 pm
Braveheart: Cliffs Notes version of my reply….
Can’t compare Sheffield times to current times. Atlanta fans were so spoiled back then that attendance was destined to decline. Also, Grandma/Mom/G’friend have no idea who Sheff is, either. Lastly, Atlanta baseball fans will flock to see a white superstar vs. a black superstar. It’s the white elephant in the room.
But true.
You are all Cox apologists
December 25th, 2009
9:07 pm
Will we ever learn?
1. When will we stop obtaining platoon-type players or guys that have a history of injuries?
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
9:08 pm
Braveheart……….Holliday is well known in baseball. He was a central part of the Rockies World Series run a couple of years ago. St. Louis was struggling to score runs until they traded for him. He raked at the plate in the second half and provided valuable protection for Pujols in their line-up.
Again, I said that Holliday himself alone wont significantly drive up attentance. However the effect that his presence (in the #4 hole, in left field, and in the locker room) would reverberate throughout the roster. Chipper would be in line for a monster comeback year.
Just like many of you said that Milton Bradley would have a negative effect in the Braves locker room with his attitude…….why cant the same be true about Holliday’s hustling style of play? The difference between him and Matt Diaz is that Holliday is a true superstar. A Holliday can come in and be the face of the franchise.
You are all Cox apologists
December 25th, 2009
9:09 pm
Projections for Glaus: .245 avg, 8HR 35RBI, misses the final 120 games due to re-injuring his shoulder. I’vee seen this movie before!
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
9:09 pm
TommyP………Matt Holliday has both speed and power (something that we seriously lack).
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
9:10 pm
Braveheart, I agree with your 8:51 post.
Personally, I want to see the Braves develop a good TEAM for the long haul.
Spending big bucks on individual players will get you headlines for a few days, but then often leaves you with long-term headaches. I feel the braves over-reacted (out of desperation) somewhat last year when they signed Lowe for $60m. This year, I like the slow, steady build a good team approach. No big bucks signings and all teh good prospects being held onto.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
9:11 pm
TommyP…..I’m not saying that other teams dont give away tickets to youth groups. However, it seems like the Braves give more away than the average team. You cant tell me that the Phillies gave away a lot of tickets. The demand for them is too high.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:12 pm
100% true, Lentz.
My dad casually watches baseball but knows Matt Holliday. And the ones that I know that USED to have season tickets? They sure as hell know Holliday.
Braves with Melky? Canceled season tickets. Braves with Holliday? Renewing faster than you can imagine.
Braves = stale. I’ll support ‘em like hell but that still doesn’t hide the fact that we’ve gone stale.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:14 pm
Lentz: The demand is there because there aren’t as many transplants and the Phils are friggin’ exciting!!!!!! Everyone wants to see them.
Rollins, Utley, Howard, Werth, Victorino…geeeez.
Steve from OH
December 25th, 2009
9:15 pm
Guys, Holliday isn’t happening, barring some sort of miracle payroll increase. So fuggetaboutit.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
9:16 pm
LongtimeBravesfan……….Last year, the Braves paid too much for Lowe. Frank Wren had no idea that Tommy Hanson was going to perform the way he did upon his call-up. Nor did he envision Javier Vazquez having the year he did. Signing Lowe was done partly of desperation for a frontline starter who could eat some innings.
Matt Holliday is 29 years old. He’s coming into his prime years. His presence in the line-up could potentially make us serious contenders. Plus we would not have to give up any prospects to get Holliday.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:17 pm
How does this year differ from the past several years??????? “Build a steady team…” So we’re the Pirates or the Marlins now? Or the Brewers?
Holliday makes Chipper a better hitter, McCann better by being out of the #4 hole, Glaus is now down to a #6 or #7 slot where he should be….
C’mon……
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
9:18 pm
TommyP……..your 9:14pm posting illustrates my point. The Phillies are an exciting team to watch. The Braves, well more business like. If the Braves could develop players who could both produce and elicit a reaction out of the fans……..it would go a long ways to solving our attendance problems.
Marvin Haggler was a better boxer than Sugar Ray Leonard. However who did the fans pay more to see box? Which boxer grossed higher ticket sales?
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
9:25 pm
TommyP ……I agree with your 9:17pm posting. It isnt like we have to rebuild like the also-rans. We have pieces in place to be a very competitive team. We just need that one piece to put into our line-up who could kick start our offense and allow the other players to hit in the part of the batting order that they can have better success in.
Holliday would provide that…..resulting into all kinds of side benefits for the Braves organization. Plus it would make the Braves relevant on the national stage.
As a Braves fan who expects his team to compete for a championship…….this talk of “let’s develop the youngsters and shoot for 2012″. I’m all for developing the prospects. However, not at the expense of being boring and mediocre for the next couple of seasons.
Have any of you thought that having a Holliday hit clean-up for the Braves would take immense pressure off of Jason Heyward and eventually Freddie Freeman to produce immediately?
jeffrey d
December 25th, 2009
9:29 pm
Random – What? You’ve never “pixxed” me off. I find you rather entertaining (in a good way)
Hope everyone had a great Christmas
BraveMan
December 25th, 2009
9:36 pm
DOB,
i just read your comment early this morning at 12:18 AM. i must tell you that is the hardest ive laughed all week… and thats saying a lot since i have been around my dysfunctional family for three days…
good stuff man! merry xmas and i hope you and your family have a blessed new years!
OptimisticInTexas
December 25th, 2009
9:39 pm
Do any of you think Holliday would take a back-loaded contract? I think that is our only hope. After Chipper/others leave, we may have more money to pay him. Maybe Lowe (or other expensive players — which aren’t many) can be traded after next season, allowing for this to work.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:40 pm
Leftovers might be better than the initial serving….
Current lineup: Melky, Prado, Chipper, McCann, Glaus, McClouth, Yunel, Diaz.
W/Holliday: McClouth, Yunel (or Prado), Chipper, Holliday, McCann, Glaus, Diaz, Prado.
Every spot in our lineup improves with Holliday in it.
TommyP
December 25th, 2009
9:46 pm
Optimistic: They COULD do it, but they won’t.
Atlantarama
December 25th, 2009
10:05 pm
John Schuerholz is a tough act to follow, but I like the way Frank Wren is thinking about the future. Also, I’d love to see Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine back with the Braves in any capacity.
Redstick19
December 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
Atlantarama
I, too, would love to see Maddux as a coach for the Braves. Even mentioned it on the blog, only to be told by multiple bloggers and I believe DOB himself that Maddux likely wouldn’t accept in near future b/c he wants to be close to home (Vegas??) with his family for at least several years. Who knows, though… he might find that he misses the game after a year or two and changes his mind.
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
December 25th, 2009
10:11 pm
DeRosa at $6 million would be a good call for the following reasons. First, he can play 1st, 2nd, 3rd and both corner outfield positions and do it without embarrassing himself. And he will not cost any prospects in a trade since he is a free agent. In addition, based on his last two years, he can be expected to hit 20-25 homers and drive in 75 runs.
Uggla can be expected to hit maybe 6-8 more homeruns and drive in 90 runs. However he will cost the Braves between $8 and $10 million plus two or three top prospects in a trade with the Marlins. Florida will exact some blood before they let him go. For those reasons I would definitely take DeRosa over Uggla.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
10:13 pm
I believe that Maddux was being invited to join the team for some days/week during spring training, not as a full time coach. yes, he lives in Vegas
Marc in FL
December 25th, 2009
10:21 pm
I would love Matt Holliday to be in a Braves uni next year, but how do you lock up our young talent if you sign him? Signing a good hitting outfielder at the expense of another key part of the team doesn’t help anything, except for maybe one or two years.
Yeah, Wren screwed up by resigning Huddy, cause if he would have left everything as is we’d have an expensive pitcher coming off the books every year (including this year). That money would have allowed a Bay or Holliday signing while opening up money every year to lock up JJJ, Hanson, Escobar, etc. But we didn’t do that and now probably can’t sign the big OF bat we need. I’m not a Wren basher, but for a bean counter he sure screwed that one up.
BossLady
December 25th, 2009
10:33 pm
The solution to building the fan attendance will be Chip Carey calling over 100 games for SportsSouth. I think that the comfortable feeling fans have had in the past watching games on television is long gone. I would rather drive the 37 miles to Turner Field than sit and listen to him. The organization had to know this with his release from Peachtree TV due to him being just awful. I said it when it was announced that this must be a plan to bring people back to the games. The average amount we spend on entertaining friends and family for a Braves night game is about equal to just going to the game. In a time like this when we are very aware of money and what we choose to spend it on, I personally would just pay the price to go to the games. This is like, do I want to pay $500 for boots. Okay, these are the ones I really want and the other pair of $179 are just as nice but they are not satisfying. Yeah, the answer to attendance problems will be answered this year with the Chip Carey Show.
I made the critical mistake of reading a post that I did not mean to read but **it happens. Sheffield was my favorite Braves during the time after the great run. How in the world can a racial make-up of a man determine the attendance. By the way I loved Justice too. See, I knew I should not have read that**it.
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
December 25th, 2009
10:40 pm
It really wasn’t until Frenchy and McCann showed up in 2005 that attendance went back up 5,000 fans a game. It’s gonna take the Braves roaring out of the gate, and Heyward and Hanson very quickly tearing it up and becoming larger than life in their game and maybe in their personalities as well to get the attendance spike you all think is possible.
It really is gonna take winning, plus either a larger than life homegrown or two and/or a larger than life free agent (who you know is gonna be around a while).
I couldn’t agree more. The Braves winning with new exciting young home grown talent will draw fans. Holliday is a very good ballplayer but he is out of the picture. He is demanding a whole lot of money over a lot of years and the Braves are not going to play that game.
The Braves have between $8 and $10 million in the kitty. That mean they cannot get either Bay or Holliday so why are some of you continuing to dream and write excessively about the subject?
Lentz, you are getting off on another kick that is IMPOSSIBLE just like you did last time. You write about the same thing, over and over and over except this time it is HOLLIDAY, HOLLIDAY, HOLLIDAY. One more time, the Braves are not going to sign Matt Holliday or Jason Bay. They are not going on the line for a long contract for either. They don’t have the money and it doesn’t make sense for them even if they did.
So why don’t we discuss the things that are at least possible?
nolie
December 25th, 2009
10:41 pm
How in the world can a racial make-up of a man determine the attendance. By the way I loved Justice too. See, I knew I should not have read that**it. BossLady
someone or another often mentions the high percentage of blacks in Atlanta and how few players are black and how a few black players would bring in tens of thousands move fans, etc. I guess then downtown black folk just ain’t into whitey playing ball.
keylargo
December 25th, 2009
10:52 pm
Uggla can be expected to hit maybe 6-8 more homeruns and drive in 90 runs. However he will cost the Braves between $8 and $10 million plus two or three top prospects in a trade with the Marlins.
Uggla is not expected to get any more than $7 mill at arbitration.
What makes you think Soriano will bring a bullpen arm and Uggla “two or three top prospects”?
DeRosa $6 mill? NEVER will the Braves pay that.
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
December 25th, 2009
10:56 pm
Lentz, to answer your question about 5 pages back about me saying Pujols not being worth $18 million a year, I never said that. What I did say was that I WOULD NOT PAY HIM $18 MILLION A YEAR.
I believe that any time you bring in any one player over a long number of years (who has not earned that with the team such as Chipper has) you are setting your team up for a lot of discontent. The Yankees can do it because they overpay EVERYBODY. But small or medium sized market teams cannot do that without upsetting the rest of the team.
For example how do you think Jurrjens and Hanson (and even Hudson) feel about Lowe collecting $15 million a year? That was not a good move. I firmly believe one thing and that is that when Jurrjens and Hanson reach free agency their devotion to the Braves will be somewhat less than it would have been had the Braves not paid Lowe $60 million over 4 years. Such moves affect a lot of people downstream and it is usually not good.
Pujols will hit 40+ homers, drive in 135+ runs and hit .335 but he is only one player. There must still be 8 others in order to win championships. And if you tie up 20-25% of your payroll in one player the other 24 players are not going to believe that one overpaid player is that much better than they are.
The Mets tried to buy a pennant last year and failed miserably. The Phils did it primarily with home grown talent….a big difference. So spending a ton on Pujols would bring in one good player but not a championship and neither will a Holliday. Baseball is still a team game and when you get it lopsided by paying one player too much you screw up the clubhouse chemistry.
ryan c
December 25th, 2009
10:59 pm
imo, braves will sign xavier nady or derosa and call it an offseason. so, this question remains:
glaus and heyward > laroche and garret anderson?
i sure hope so, but the laroche we got in the 2nd half of the season is going to be pretty tough to trump. fangraphs have the power production from the 2 spots to be exactly the same (39 projected homeruns for each pair), but obviously we are expecting more from both glaus and heyward.
nolie, if you dont think that heyward, or any other strong black player couldnt boost attendance at turner field, lets just say we disagree. i dont think the boost would be tens of thousands, but he could most definitely put a lot more “diversity” in the stands and get the attendance on the rise, rather than the fall we’ve been seeing for year. i mean, have you looked into the crowds at turner field? 90% white at least.
But, as far as race is concerned, with the signing of Kawakami, the braves were probably the most diverse team in the Majors (australian, mexican, cuban, african american, mexican american, caucasian, asian, and i’m sure many more).
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
December 25th, 2009
11:02 pm
Key Largo from what I am hearing Uggla is expected to get $8+ million. It is really opinions at this point and will stay there until it is finally settled.
Assuming you are correct $7 million is still far too much for the Braves to pay for a player who will help them in only one way, in the batter’s box. Besides both you and I know the Marlins are going to be demanding three top level prospects for him and that would not be something I would even discuss with them.
Uggla should be traded to an American League team where he would fit as a DH. His glove work is lousy and I say this as a result of watching him play all through his major league career from my perch here in South Florida.
P. W. Hjort
December 25th, 2009
11:08 pm
Not a good overall batting average, poor stolen base ratio, OK on base percentage. Why do some fans think he is the next coming of Willie Mays?
He was really young for every level and the scouting reports were always glowing, despite the somewhat mediocre statistics. Minor-league statistics only tell you so much. You can’t boil a young player’s potential/ability down to his baseball-reference page. SSS and leagues/translation issues obscure the answers in a cloud of untested variables.
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
December 25th, 2009
11:11 pm
Key Largo wrote:
What makes you think Soriano will bring a bullpen arm and Uggla “two or three top prospects”?
1. Soriano had already been written off when the Braves offered arbitration. Had he not accepted the Braves would have gotten two draft picks. When he did accept they were faced with dropping his $7+ million salary for whatever they could get. They got a pretty decent RP instead of draft picks. And they got rid of $7+ million salary.
2. The Marlins need to get rid of Uggla’s contract of $7 or $8+ million but they have a reputation for getting some good prospects for their players. For that reason they have not been able to trade him — so far. But you and I both know what they are asking for him.
If they have not traded him before opening day they may drop their demands but until then they will continue stone walling it.
sri
December 25th, 2009
11:12 pm
Nice to see you post again, Braveheart. I think Efrim asked a couple of days ago, what do you feel about the Braves moves this off season? Always enjoy reading your posts.
Chuck James was Solid until the 6th!!!
December 25th, 2009
11:12 pm
TnBrian
Looks like I convinced you to turn the corner and get off the fence and get on the Uggla acquistion. Like I said he could NOT be worse then Loaf or Klesko just for two recent comparisons. Klesko was in the lineup for his O not his D and they got by and what do ya know? Klesko had 3 HR’s @ Cleveland in the 95 WS to help bring a championship to ATL! And again if they can keep Melky as a 4th outfield, if they get a lead, they can throw Melky in the lineup in late innings for A+ D and for contact late in the game, where he is a proven clutch performer…
Hope you had a nice Christmas with your family and Grandfather? Did he light up when you got him going on Braves talk?? Hope so…
brian
December 25th, 2009
11:15 pm
Uggla does not fit into the Braves, especially if he is not willing to move positions. He also will cost too much in prospects for trade and in arbitration.
I would like to see Cody Ross in LF or CF