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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
7,406 comments Add your comment
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
3:45 pm
Prez of Matt Diaz Fan Club…………how silly of me to think otherwise.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
3:47 pm
I remember this time at band camp…………
AdirondackDave
December 25th, 2009
3:48 pm
Tomahawkin — I saw Schafer play a couple games last spring and he was easily the best defensive player on the field… on either side. l think you’re way underestimating his ability.
Moby Grape
December 25th, 2009
3:51 pm
on either side. l think you’re way underestimating his ability. AD
I’m not sure how well he will hit, but me and nolie saw him play a few times and he is a good defensive outfielder that’s right
The_Superhoo
December 25th, 2009
3:52 pm
Moby Grape,
I think Schafer was pretty good offensively before he got hurt. Not sure exactly when the injury occured relative to Atlanta’s season.
AdirondackDave
December 25th, 2009
3:53 pm
Moby — I agree. The question Schafer has to answer is with his bat. His glove is already proven.
Moby Grape
December 25th, 2009
3:55 pm
I think Schafer was pretty good offensively before he got hurt. Not sure exactly when the injury occured relative to Atlanta’s season. Superhoo
kinda hard to be sure yet. I know nolie thinks he will be a lot like McLouth with maybe fewer homers. I’m not so sure he will be quite that good.
Rusty
December 25th, 2009
3:55 pm
DOB, Check out The Great American Country Drifters. Spinal Tap meets country music
The_Superhoo
December 25th, 2009
3:58 pm
Maybe I’m wrong, but I always felt the general sentiment was Schafer may have a higher ceiling than McLouth.
Maybe that was just due to his stats at the start of the season, I dunno. But defensively he’s a dynamo when healthy.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
3:58 pm
Travis……….in the ideal world, winning would trump “an individual’s ability to attract fans to the park”. However, we live in an increasing “ADD” kind of world. People want instant gratification…..instant offense……or they get bored quickly.
Back in the early 90’s, the Braves had a roster full of players who “brought energy to the park every night”. David Justice, Ron Gant, Deion Sanders, Otis Nixon, Terry Pendleton, etc. Even Smoltz, Avery, and Glavine displayed more energy and emotion back then then they did later in their careers.
Look at the difference in the energy at Dodger Stadium during Manny Ramirez’s 50 game suspension in 2009. Before the suspension, sellouts were to norm. The Dodgers were making a mint off of selling Manny’s dreadlocks. While the Dodgers played well during Manny’s suspension, attendance wasnt the same, hence the amount of expected revenue dropped.
Even players as polarizing as Manny Ramirez and Barry Bonds put A$$ES in the seats.
Moby Grape
December 25th, 2009
3:58 pm
Merry Christmas everybody. Gotta go.
AdirondackDave
December 25th, 2009
4:01 pm
I think Schafer can be better than McLouth. I’d like to hear DOB on this but I think his defense is WAY better than McLouth and there’s potential (not proven yet) for him to hit for power and average. On balance, if Shafer can avoid injuries, I believe he’ll be the Braves center fielder for the next 5-6 years.
mr baseball
December 25th, 2009
4:02 pm
1) Delgado is not going to sign a deal remotely as cheap as Glaus. And his physical condition may be even more questionable.
2) Garko over DeRosa? Garko was handed the Giants’ 1B job midway through last season and was an unmitigated disaster. Look at his numbers with SF and try again.
3) DeRosa provides legit insurance at 2 positions for 2 guys who really, really need a quality backup who has some pop in his bat. Or would ya’ll be content with Infante hitting cleanup?
4) MIB denizens aside, Braves’ fans are unquestionably in contention for the title of most apathetic in the game. This is especially true for those in the metro Atlanta area.
Going back to the days of Ted Turner & WTBS in the ’70s and ’80s, the Braves have been a TV team as opposed to a watch-em-at-the-ballpark team. With the exception of the glory days of the early ’90s, Braves fans in Atlanta have never kicked that habit.
Only now, there’s a whole lot less watching on TV, not to mention the half empty stands on a nightly basis at the Ted.
5) If the Braves make another move or 2 of consequence, we’ll know they’re serious about contending. If the Glaus signing is it, we’ll know they’re not.
Kinda like Michael Corleone’s cash filled suitcase that Hyman Roth never got in Godfather II.
Tomahawkin
December 25th, 2009
4:03 pm
Adirondack Dave
I’d Take Langerhans defense over Schafer’s in that Langerhans has better range and can read fly balls better, I still think that Schafer needs one more year in the minors
Time to go listen to some “911 is a Joke” some old Public Enemy and throw in some old Tracey Lee “The Theme [It's Party Time]“
The_Superhoo
December 25th, 2009
4:06 pm
meh…”Langerhans??” Journeyman now.
Tomahawkin
December 25th, 2009
4:07 pm
Adirondack Dave
I’d take Schafer’s Defense over Nate-Dawgs but only slightly. Still I think he needs another year in AAA an impressive S. Training then I say we call him up during midseason
Schafer Tore it up in S. Training last year, but that means little during the season…
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
4:09 pm
AdirondackDave………I agree with your assessment of Jordan Schafer. Schafer has more speed and the kind of arm that you want in center. If the Braves dont sign anyone of significance to play left field……..then I expect the Braves to give Schafer a chance to win the center field position in Spring Training. If Schafer hits well in Spring Training, then I expect him to be the Opening Day center fielder and see Nate McLouth moved to left field.
If the Braves decide that Jason Heyward is ready to start in right…..then the Braves will have a very fast, strong defensive outfield.
I’m not saying that the above will happen. I’m saying that it is a possibility, especially if the Braves do not sign anyone else of note to play left field.
The_Superhoo
December 25th, 2009
4:11 pm
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z,
That’s EXACTLY how we need to hope it plays out.
Tomahawkin
December 25th, 2009
4:13 pm
P. Lentz
Please Don’t tell me that you think that L. Media is gonna go Cheap and we start Schafer next year, Please…?
I happen to think that you are right…ARGH!
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
4:14 pm
Ron Jeremy (uh, I mean Stan Van Gundy, coach of the Orlando Magic) was just called for a technical foul in the Celtics-Magic game.
Tomahawkin
December 25th, 2009
4:14 pm
A lineup with Milky Cabrera, Nate-Dawg, and Schafer, Scares No One except me in thinking about how many more 3-2 games we are gonna lose…
Time to bump some old Color Me Badd
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
4:16 pm
Tomahawkin……..I didnt say that the scenario of starting Jordan Schafer in center on Opening Day will play out that way for sure.
I said that it is a possibility, IF the Braves do not sign anyone of note to play left field.
The_Superhoo
December 25th, 2009
4:16 pm
Tomahawkin,
Who the heck do you want out there besides Schafer? Outfield isn’t going to get better this year except through the farm system. Do you really hate an outfield of McLouth, Schafer, and Heyward?
Psg81
December 25th, 2009
4:17 pm
“Brad Crawford” from ESPN Take on The Braves
slideshow
Frank Wren has thrown in the towel.
The Atlanta Braves executive vice president and general manager made a monumental error Tuesday after he sent starting pitcher Javier Vazquez to the Evil Empire, er the Yankees, for Melky Cabrera, an outfielder.
Other players included in the trade were Atlanta ’s Boone Logan and a pair of minor-leaguers from the Yankees’ farm system.
What was Wren thinking?
All of the off-season reports I have read talk about Atlanta ’s wealth of starting pitching. Outside of talented newcomers Jair Jurrjens and Tommy Hanson, who had outstanding seasons in 2009, I don’t think Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami fall under the ‘quality’ starter category.
Not anymore.
It feels like it’s been 10 years since Atlanta’s last National League East division title in 2005. I’ve sat through the last four seasons watching a meager lineup of players past their prime and cringed when a thrown-together bullpen spoils wins by Atlanta starters.
Rebuilding leaves a nasty taste in my mouth and it seems that is where the Braves are headed.
The seasons of 14 straight division titles are long gone now that Wren rules the roost, taking the reins from John Schuerholz.
Turner Field has become a deserted venue deep into pennant races and a place where the Florida Marlins routinely sweep.
Wren obviously missed the memo on the importance of pitching, insisting a worn-out Tim Hudson is better for the Braves than Vazquez.
Of course, I saw this coming in October when the Braves resigned Hudson to a three-year $28 million deal that left Vazquez and Lowe, the incumbent No. 1, expendable.
“Javier had a very good year for us in 2009,” Braves executive vice president and general manager Frank Wren told MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro. “But all along, as we went into our winter planning, we knew that we would have an extra pitcher that would allow us to improve our club in another area.”
Wake up, Frank.
Hudson is a breaking ball away from Tommy John surgery and the front office has already wasted millions on Mike Hampton. Need his career in Atlanta be brought up?
Vazquez enters the Yankees’ opening day rotation as the fourth starter, behind C.C.. Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Andy Pettitte. Vazquez went 14-10 with a 4.91 ERA in New York in 2004. In Atlanta , the 33-year-old native of Puerto Rico went 15-10 at a 2.87 clip. The Braves, as a team, led the National League last season with a 3.52 ERA.. Vazquez finished fourth in the voting for the 2009 NL Cy Young Award.
Cabrera joins the club as a corner outfielder since center is vacated by Nate McLouth. Cabrera started 130 games for the defending World Series champions last season, batting .274 with 13 homeruns and 68 RBIs.
Unfortunately, Cabrera’s tenure in Atlanta won’t change the inevitable.
The Braves, as we’ve known them since the 1990’s, will change after the 2010 season. Atlanta baseball icons, Chipper Jones and Bobby Cox, will sprint off into the Georgia sun leaving the remnants of a winning franchise behind.
Wren is just speeding up the process.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
4:19 pm
Tomahawkin……….I feel that there is a chance that Jason Heyward will open the season in right field, instead of Melky Cabrera. Cabrera could very well fill the super outfield sub/pinch hitter role. Matt Diaz would play against lefties when one of the others needed a day off.
richbrave
December 25th, 2009
4:20 pm
Tomahawkin
December 25th, 2009
1:51 pm
Ok Everyone!!!
Its Time For D.O.B.’s Blogger of the Year AWARDS!
I’m doing the titles here and I’d like everyone to Chime In…
Best Poster:
Worst Poster:
Best baseball Mind:
Worst baseball Mind:
Funniest Poster:
Least Funny (most annoying poster):
Funniest Gimmick:
Least Funny Gimick:
Best OT Poster:
Worst OT Poster:
Biggest Hater:
Most Passionate Fan:
Least Passionate Fan:
Best Rival Poster
Most Hated Rival poster
Front Office Puppet:
Can we just pencil in TOM O HAWKIN’ and leave it at that?
The_Superhoo
December 25th, 2009
4:20 pm
Psg81,
That ESPN writer is just stirring the pot. That’s about as negative as you could POSSIBLY be about our club. He can go suck an egg, and so can you if that’s what you believe.
Tomahawkin
December 25th, 2009
4:20 pm
The Superhoo
Heyward will not start the Season it will be Nate Dawg in Center, Milky Cabrera and Probably Schafer at the corner OF positions…
I want the F.O. to Go after Jason Bay 4yrs 55 mill, at least make an offer, but they are probably gonna go Cheap because of L. Media
The_Superhoo
December 25th, 2009
4:21 pm
Tomahawkin,
DOB has already said (and said and said and said) that we aren’t going after Bay. Our only shot at another outfielder IMO is Dan Uggla. He’s a 2B right now, but I don’t think we move Prado to the OF.
Psg81
December 25th, 2009
4:23 pm
I would rather see them give Schafer a shot at playing the outfield everyday if his wrist proves to be 100% rather than have Melky out there on an everyday basis.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
4:26 pm
Tomahawkin…….two disagreements with your 4:20pm posting. If the Braves decide to start Jordan Schafer, it will be in center field with Nate McLouth moving to left field. Schafer can cover more ground than McLouth, plus Schafer has a much stronger arm than McLouth. You dont waste Schafer’s arm in left and keep McLouth in center. McLouth only plays center if Schafer isnt going to play the outfield.
Second. if the Braves were willing to spend the kind of money it would take to get Jason Bay……they would be better off spending a few more million per year and going after Holliday. Jason Bay would not bring the kind of energy to our line-up that the Braves need. He’s as bland and business like in his approach as the rest of the Braves are.
Holliday would bring more energy and help put more people in the seats than Bay.
Travis
December 25th, 2009
4:26 pm
Lentz…If you think about it, Ted Turner used the Braves to promote his tv stantion whenever he could. Didn’t get fined for puting “channel” on the back of number 7 jersey. With the top notch broadcast crew and name recongnition of guys like Skip Caray the fans got spoiled. You didn’t need to go to the park to see the Braves. TBS brought the game to you. Might just have created a TV fan base. Look at all the fans all over the SE that love the Braves and have never seen a game. Tough to break that cycle.
Travis
December 25th, 2009
4:27 pm
Meant have never seen a game at the park.
Roman Gal
December 25th, 2009
4:28 pm
Since Schafer has gotten off of HGH he has been sub-par, his range is suspect and his bat is well you know…
“Well you know” what? No, I don’t know. If it’s your opinion that Schafer won’t cut it as a major league player, well, you know…
nolie
December 25th, 2009
4:29 pm
there’s potential (not proven yet) for him to hit for power and average A Dave
I don’t see the average or all that much power. If he hits at all I think he’ll be close to another Nate. Great D though, better than Nate’s for certain.better than Melky too by a good bit
AdirondackDave
December 25th, 2009
4:32 pm
Wow, could that guy Crawford of ESPN have possibly taken a dimmer view of the Braves??? Jeez, fella, FW didn’t trade Javy for Melky. He traded ONE-YEAR of Javy for Melky, a strong unproven lefty Dunn, and a highly promising A-ball prospect Viscaino. Worn-out Hudson, Lowe and KK not quality starters?? Not sure why I’m even responding to this nonsense.
Psg81
December 25th, 2009
4:33 pm
The_Superhoo Dude I am as big of a Braves fan that u will find I just wanted people to see what the guy was writing about the club I didn’t say I agree with a word he wrote obviously the dudes not a fan of the braves.
Roman Gal
December 25th, 2009
4:34 pm
Wren obviously missed the memo on the importance of pitching, insisting a worn-out Tim Hudson is better for the Braves than Vazquez.
Pish posh! How many players have rebounded quite nicely from Tommy-Johnson surgery the past few years? PLENTY! Plus, Huddy’s been better throughout his career. Do I miss Vazquez? Yes. If the choice was Hudson or Vazquez, I’d go with Hudson every time.
Roman Gal
December 25th, 2009
4:35 pm
I would rather see them give Schafer a shot at playing the outfield everyday if his wrist proves to be 100% rather than have Melky out there on an everyday basis.
Amen.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
4:35 pm
Travis…..I agree with your 4:26pm posting. TBS made it convenient for fans to watch the game on t.v.
However, if ownership was willing to go and get the kind of player that would excite a fan base…….fans would be more than willing to go to the park and spend money on parking, concessions, memorabilia, etc……especially the casual fan.
Again, the onus should be on ownership to invest the money in quality, exciting players to entice the fans to come out………not the other way around. It isnt our job as fans to motivate ownership to spend money to put out a quality product. I find it ironic that many of you are so willing to give ownership a pass due to “payroll constraints”.
If the fans of Atlanta can rally together and force John Schuerholz to hold an impromptu press conference the day after releasing Tom Glavine and apologize for something I feel he had no business apologizing for………then just imagine what kind of pressure Braves fans could put on ownership if they decided to band together and pressure ownership to put a quality product on the field?
The_Superhoo
December 25th, 2009
4:37 pm
Psg81,
When you post a bombshell like that without openly disagreeing with it, you implicitly agree with it.
TnBrian
December 25th, 2009
4:37 pm
If indeed Frank Wren is “throwing in the towel” for 2010, which I can’t imagine he is, he’s not going to come out and say it or even come close to hinting to it. Honestly, I’ll be VERY shocked if Wren doesn’t make another move here sooner or later because a) Bobby is stepping down and one last attempt at a title for the icon seems like a no brainer and b) they have some cash left to either spend on a FA hitter or trade for one… probably trade for one seems more reasonable.
That ESPN writer sounds disappointed and you can’t blame him at all. Javy was a fan favorite in Atlanta and nobody seems sure why we got Cabrera over Swisher in the deal, but this Vizacino seems the best answer for it. But, to say before January that Wren is throwing in the towel is just plain silly and ignorant.
TnBrian
December 25th, 2009
4:46 pm
I swear, if Wren goes out and trades for Uggla and some of you still bi*** and moan than I’m going off on all of you with a vengeance. To think if he were to get a guy who could easily be leading the NL in HR’s by next years All Star break and some of you nit pick at the guy’s not so great defense is mind blowing. You really think the field will be made up of Braves players that stink the place up with their D? NO… Chipper in ‘08 should’ve won the GG, Yunel is on the cusp of winning one, Mac is getting better, Nate is above average, Heyward’s defense is supposed to be one of his main strong points, Diaz isn’t the worst we’ve seen, not by a long shot, Melky, if still here, is above average in the field with a great arm and Glaus has always been known to have very smooth hands and decent range for such a big guy. Get real, one player with below average defense on the team isn’t gioing to make or break our playoff hopes.
Travis
December 25th, 2009
4:47 pm
Most people would laugh at the passion shown by the bloggers here when it comes to the Braves. We all want to make it a better team and will come up with unbelievable scenarios just to make it happen. If the Braves were the only game in town like Maybe Green Bay and the packers I guess it would be different.
BillReef
December 25th, 2009
5:00 pm
I can’t understand why the illinformed are down on Shafer. He tried to play through a fractured wrist and now he’s dirt? He is twice the defensive outfielder McSlouch is, he is a much better hitter and he is a prototypical leadoff guy who has hit everywhere he ever played(aside from his fractured wrist last year). He earned the job out of ST. He makes rookie money, If you want to get a corner outfielder package Mickey C, use Melky for insurance and throw in a prospect.That would all be a little too creative for FW who prefers to sign third tier has beens who are gone in a year. I think he likes just making deals to get his name in the paper. Baltimore had the right idea, fire him right away.
AdirondackDave
December 25th, 2009
5:08 pm
Thanks, TnBrian, we needed that.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:24 pm
his range is suspect and his bat is well you know…
I don’t know who was being quoted, but I disagree about his range. it is more than adequate
Random
December 25th, 2009
5:29 pm
And Hey, jeffrey d —
MX/
HNY
to you, too. I know I mighta pixxed you off before (woah, now), but I recognize you as one of the few worthy contributors here.
And “few” is just relatively speaking — Lew, Gus (Wayne in Utah), Rowdy (CB), nolie, Captain Caveman, ncscoots, N8, RHR, Chop Chop, DAP, KC, DOB, Tom O’Hawke, Steve and Steve in the (ungodly) Morning (which is to say Steve from OH and Bay Area Steve), P. W. Hjort, bubdylan, Efrim, ease19 or 20, sober TnBrian, anesthetized Rob in SC, comatose Paula Blintz, dogsbrekky, Cricket, Mitchie-sama, The Bird and Indian, THE BEAR, Il Cattivo, Thundersticks, FlaBraveFan (?), GovClintonTyree, brent a., Moby Grape, CARROLL ROGERS, and so many, many more —
MX/
HNY!
Ernest
December 25th, 2009
5:29 pm
This infatuation with Jordan Schafer is mind boggling. Below are the stats for him that I found:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=schafe001jor
Not a good overall batting average, poor stolen base ratio, OK on base percentage. Why do some fans think he is the next coming of Willie Mays? He caught ‘lightning in a bottle’ during spring training and partly through a PR campaign was anointed the starting center fielder, despite coming off a ’so so’ season in AA and after being suspended for violating baseball’s drug policy. He was rushed and we can only hope it does not affect his development.
Here’s hoping the Braves don’t try to rush Heyward before he is ready…..
Heath
December 25th, 2009
5:29 pm
Ahhh the beauty of the internet… xmas starts winding down and we can start chattin’ with our good friends on the ole blog.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:29 pm
nobody seems sure why we got Cabrera over Swisher in the deal, TnB
likely Swisher wasn’t available, or they would not have gotten Vizcaino, one of the two. but I agree he ain’t all that
Piedmont Blues
December 25th, 2009
5:35 pm
4 years, $55 million for Bay? Time to lay off the eggnogg, Tomahawkin. The Muttleys have already offered 4 and $65 mill. He’s not going to take less than that. Holliday will command even more (at least per season) and should, because he’s not a liability in the OF and is a very smart baserunner.
Glaus > Garko. Dye may be through, at least as an everyday guy in a non-DH league. Not sure who you think the Braves could make a serious run at.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:36 pm
Chipper in ‘08 should’ve won the GG, Yunel is on the cusp of winning one, TnB
I don’t think it was 2008 that he whined about was it, 2007 was the better year.?he’d had a few decent years, but most years he is a below average fielder. poor fielding % combined with poor range is not a productive combo.
Psg81
December 25th, 2009
5:37 pm
The 12 Players From The Braves Lost to Free Agency BY Nathaniel Stoltz
(Atlanta only lost 12 players to minor league free agency: six pitchers and six position players.
Bobby Brownlie, a former top prospect with the Cubs, threw some nice games as a swingman at Triple-A Gwinnett. With solid control of four pitches, he could be a nice fifth starter or middle reliever in the majors.
A big power righty, Jerome Gamble’s control issues prevented him from being anything more than an average swingman between Double-A and Triple-A. At 29, he may be out of chances in the minors.
A big lefty with less-than-intimidating stuff, Mariano Gomez has succeeded with some smoke-and-mirrors pitching in Triple-A the past few years. Yes, he had a 1.99 ERA this year, but he rarely struck anyone out. He’s best left in Triple-A in case of emergency.
Juan Perez is a lefty with velocity, but he struggles to find the strike zone and isn’t getting any better on the wrong side of 30. He’ll bounce around for a few more years, perhaps, but I don’t see him being an effective major leaguer.
The final pitcher I’d like to discuss is more of a curiosity than an important player. Former MLB first baseman Lance Niekro began his knuckleballing career in Rookie ball last year, and didn’t completely embarrass himself. I doubt it’ll amount to anything, but it’ll be interesting to see if Niekro’s knuckler gets a full-season ball shot somewhere next year.
Former Rockies catcher Alvin Colina spent 2009 in Triple-A, showing just enough bat to be a palatable backup MLB option. He’ll need some luck to stick in the majors.
Former MLB infielder Chris Burke, like Colina, didn’t really impress, but didn’t fall flat on his face either. He’s still the same player he’s always been—a fast guy with okay defense at seven positions and just the slightest hint of power.
Former top Tigers prospect Kody Kirkland, who’s struggled in Double-A for years, struggled there again this year, but his bat oddly heated up in a brief promotion to Triple-A to cover for an injury. It returned to its normal poor levels upon being demoted.
Kirkland is a nice defensive third baseman with a ton of raw power, but he chases far too many pitches and can’t hit a breaking ball.
Not much else to say about Atlanta’s guys. All the players I mentioned are free agents right now, to the best of my knowledge.)
Lew
December 25th, 2009
5:37 pm
Because the Yankees would rather have Swisher than Melky in their outfield? Don’t blame them, either. I tried telling everyone that Javy wasn’t going to bring us a boomer. GM’s were going to look more at his entire body of work and NOT at one season in a pitcher’s park. It was never going to be otherwise.
I wish Javy would have netted more, but I’m betting that Melky and one of the other guys Wren got in trades this winter are going to the Marlins for Uggla.
C's
December 25th, 2009
5:37 pm
Two seasons ago Schafer missed a big chunk of the season due to his suspension. Last season he got hurt almost right away and essentially missed an entire season.
He will start in AAA this year.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:38 pm
Why do some fans think he is the next coming of Willie Mays?
a bit of an exaggeration there dontcha think?
Ernest
December 25th, 2009
5:41 pm
Nolie, you may be right of the ‘exaggeration’ however so far he has been the next coming of Brad Komminsk, wouldn’t you say???
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:41 pm
He will start in AAA this year. C’s
I would certainly think so
VP
December 25th, 2009
5:43 pm
I know DOB left town for Vancouver, but when is he expected back? I am asking so that i can follow the blog again when he comes back.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:44 pm
I definitely think there is a small chance that he won’t hit all that well in the bigs and as I said B4 I see Nate as his ceiling, but if he plays D like I think he can it still might be enough.I don’t think he’s gonna be the star that some here anticipate
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:45 pm
VP why should we tell you when you insinuate that we aren’t worth spending any time with?
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
5:46 pm
One thing I really like about Schafer is his ability to draw a walk. I believe that the contact will come along and that he’ll be able to hit and drive the ball. He has the tools to be a good ML player.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
5:48 pm
nolie……….Schafer’s throwing arm makes him more suited for center than McLouth.
bravesgrl4life
December 25th, 2009
5:50 pm
Well, I got most of the Braves package I wanted. I actually got all of it, but the package that was supposed to be part of the 5/6 game package(s) is apparently lost in the mail. My sweet husband put the printed receipt in a card for me. Well, here’s hoping the tickets don’t get lost when they come out in February. Here’s hoping I see some of you local Braves fans at the Ted this next season!
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:50 pm
One thing I really like about Schafer is his ability to draw a walk PL
not sure that we can assume that he is gonna walk that much when not in the 8 hole. we’ll see
KJM
December 25th, 2009
5:51 pm
Nolie
Vazquez has trouble putting back-2-back winning seasons together..just like the Falcons. Sorry to confuse you with the facts.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:52 pm
Schafer’s throwing arm makes him more suited for center than McLouth. PL
Schafer’s range makes him more suited. a lot of CFers get by with average arms.a strong arm is obviously nice but he will cover more ground regularly than Nate does
Ernest
December 25th, 2009
5:52 pm
Scafer has the ability to draw a walk??? Did you look at the stats from the link I posted above? Other than a decent year in 2007 playing A ball, he hasn’t done much at the plate that projects to being more than a .260 to .270 hitter. Add his high strikeout rate and fair OBP, this is not the kind of player the Braves need as a leadoff hitter. As indicated earlier, his stolen base percentage is less than 65%.
Don’t believe the hype with Schafer. His ‘feel good’ story should not cloud your judgment regarding his abilities.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
5:54 pm
nolie……….I would actually like to see Schafer bat lead-off and McLouth bat 2nd. That would make for a pretty fast top of the order.
TnBrian
December 25th, 2009
5:54 pm
nolie, I’m pretty sure it was ‘08 because I remember hearing how CJ could’ve fallen from GG status fielding to below average in just a year,etc. Really, Joe Simpson whined about Wright winning the GG for 3rd baseman in ‘08 much more than Chipper or anybody else did.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
5:55 pm
nolie……McLouth plays a good center field range wise as well. He just cant thrown it like Schafer.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
5:56 pm
Vazquez has trouble putting back-2-back winning seasons together..just like the Falcons. Sorry to confuse you with the facts. KJM
you aren’t since they aren’t facts. his ERA+ has been 115 for the last ten years. He is one of only about a dozen players to have 10 straight years of 10+ wins and 150+ plus Ks, That’s in history bub. ERA and win totals are damn poor metrics to judge a pitcher’s performance by . But hey don’y let ME CONFUSE YOU with any facts.
rico43
December 25th, 2009
5:57 pm
Responding to a pair of psg81’s posts.
As for the ESPN story at 4:17, everyone over there is trying to be the next Gammons and his dismissal of the minor leaguers acquired for Vazquez immediately showed the limitations of his knowledge. The inability to know the difference between “vacated” and “occupied” show the limits of his vocabulary.
As for the 5:37 post, I thought the Braves re-signed Mariano Gomez.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
6:00 pm
Enter your comments hereMcLouth plays a good center field range wise as well. He just cant thrown it like Schafer. PL
no he doesn’t. range is considered his biggest weakness, has range factor is somewhat below the best, but whatever.
KJM
December 25th, 2009
6:02 pm
FACTS! A .500 CAREER PITCHER WITH A 4.19 ERA1
1998 MON 5 15 6.06
1999 MON 9 8 5.00
2000 MON 11 9 4.05
2001 MON 16 11 3.42
2002 MON 10 13 3.91
2003 MON 13 12 3.24
2004 NYY 14 10 4.91
2005 ARI 11 15 4.42
2006 CWS 11 12 4.84
2007 CWS 15 8 3.74
2008 CWS 12 16 4.67
2009 ATL 15 10 2.87
CAREER 142 139 4.19
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
6:03 pm
rico43………..I noticed the “vacated” error when talking about McLouth playing center for the Braves as well.
While it would have been nice to have Vazquez for another year with the possibility of re-signing him to an extension……….Frank Wren made the right move in trading him. There is no way the Braves could have afforded to re-sign him, given that after this year, the Braves will still owe Derek Lowe $30 mil over the following 2 years. And given the fact that Jair Jurrjens will be due a significant raise after this year………Vazquez had to go.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
6:07 pm
The Cavaliers are having their way with the Lakers right now. Cleveland up by 19 mid-way through the 2nd quarter.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
6:07 pm
FACTS! A .500 CAREER PITCHER WITH A 4.19 ERA1
ignorant idiot. you can’t compare raw ERAs . both ERA and W/L are highly dependent on outside factors that’s why they are in disfavor. If you are too stupid to see past those twp sstats then I guess you are absolutely correct, in your own fuzzy little mind. If this year didn’t prove to you how little relationship there can be between performance and wins, then i guess you just will never understand the game.
KJM
December 25th, 2009
6:11 pm
AND FROM 2000-2009
128-116 WITH A 4.07 ERA
THAT COMES OUT TO ABOUT 13-12 A YEAR WITH A 4.07 ERA!
WHAT’S SO CONFUSING?
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
6:13 pm
nolie………I have to agree with you. If you went by won/loss record alone, then one could say that Derek Lowe (15-10) had a better year than Jair Jurrjens (14-10).
However once you compare their ERAs and hits/innings pitched ratio (Lowe 4.67, with 232 hits allowed in 194 innings pitched…….to Jurrjens’s 2.60, with 186 hits allowed in 215 innings pitched)…..then one can say that Lowe was the beneficiary of some generous run support. Despite pitching 21 more innings, Jurrjens allowed 46 less hits….and allowed 2.06 runs less per 9 innings pitched.
Won/Loss record isnt always indicative of how well or badly a pitcher pitched.
nolie
December 25th, 2009
6:13 pm
THAT COMES OUT TO ABOUT 13-12 A YEAR WITH A 4.07 ERA!
WHAT’S SO CONFUSING
nothing, sweetie. whatever you say, ok? there ya go.
Psg81
December 25th, 2009
6:19 pm
rico43
U are right Mariano Gomez was re-signed when they added the Six Minor League Free Agents I didn’t catch that.
VP
December 25th, 2009
6:21 pm
@ Nolie,
I didn’t say it’s not worth hanging around here, but if DOB is not here then i don’t have to follow every page.
PTBNL
December 25th, 2009
6:23 pm
That is true, nolie. There are many examples of poor arms in CF, but for some reason Mickey Rivers came to mind when I read your post.
I was very surprised when the Braves had Schafer on the roster out of ST last year. Many on the blog seemed to think he was almost headed for the Hall based on ST, but he did not seem as good as expected nor did he seem ready to me.
To me, Heyward is much ahead of where Schafer was last year, but I still tend to think it would be good for him to spend a little more time in AAA before coming up.
Certainly, that is just a perspective, not saying it is right or wrong. Hard to prove it to be either.
Nolie, your sense about what Schafer’s potential probably will be is much like my own. He will probably be a good defender (though I am concerned how long his body will last) and McLouth-like (or something along that line) in offense.
And… as if it matters what any of us thinks about moves that should or should not be made, my vote would be no to Uggla. I tend to go with the model that says that middle infielders are foremost defense and offense is dessert.
BillReef
December 25th, 2009
6:23 pm
Ernest, R U off ur meds? Shafer hit .312 and had an OPS of .887 in 2007 his last uninterrupted year in the minors. He had 15 HRs, 10 Triples and 49 doubles in 626 AB. He has great range, a great arm, can steal a base and is a really natural baseball talent. He reminds me of a young Chipper when I see him live. He played with a broken wrist last year and still played better than Church, McLouth, Francoeur and certainly the LF slug GA. I have spent alot of time watching this kid in ST in FL and ATL during last years RS watching this kid play. You, sir, don’t know what you are talking about. Teams would line up if they thought he was trade bait.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
6:28 pm
Even though it didnt count, that was a hell of a mid court shot by LeBron at the half.
Steve from OH
December 25th, 2009
6:40 pm
I like Schafer as much as the next guy, and I think that even if he’s a league-average stick, his speed and defense will make him a valuable player, but he needs AB’s, period. He needs to start in AAA and spend a good chunk of time there to gain experience. I’d like to see him start 2011 in center for the Braves though, providing for a good season in Gwinnett.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
6:42 pm
………BillReef…….I also like the energy Schafer plays with. Sure, batting 8th, it’s kind of hard to carry yourself in a manner that some could consider cocky. However, if Schafer could produce in the top of the order like he is potentially capable of…..then I think that he could be the type of player who excites fans enough to the point where the Braves will start to market him in a similar way that they did Jeff Francoeur.
I know, a big IF.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
6:44 pm
Any of you guys playing ESPN’s Christmas day Steak for the Cash contest?
Ernest
December 25th, 2009
6:52 pm
BillReef, I acknowledged he had a good year in 2007. Remember that was playing in A ball though. What has he done above that? That does not change his strikeout rate to plate appearances. That year it was one strikeout per 5 plate appearances. You want a better ratio than that from a lead-off hitter. You can’t steal first by striking out that much.
He has good defensive speed but again, he has not shown much with base running speed. I said it before and I’ll say it again, remember Brad Komminsk….
AdirondackDave
December 25th, 2009
6:54 pm
Glad to see the strong comments coming out for Schafer. I agree, this kid is going to be special if he can stay healthy. I like McLouth but Schafer is already a much better defensive player and has more potential with the stick. If he has a couple strong months at Gwinnett I expect to see him take over the every day CF job in Atlanta and stay there 5-6 years. Remember how valuable a fine defensive CF (Andruw) was for the pitchers? Not saying he’s AJ with the glove but he’s the closest I’ve seen.
Braveheart
December 25th, 2009
6:56 pm
This infatuation with Jordan Schafer is mind boggling…. Not a good overall batting average, poor stolen base ratio, OK on base percentage.
He led the entire minor leagues in hits one year. The Braves wanted him to develop more plate patience and work on earning more walks. So, the next year he developed plate patience and earned himself a very good 14% walk rate. As a result, even though his batting average dropped 43 points, he essentially maintained the same .370+ OBP, while also maintaining the same .200 ISOP.
He also has really good range in center, plays a premium defensive position, and runs the bases really well although he is not a good basestealer. He’s also a scrawny 15 year old looking kid who should develop even more power as his body matures (and he was already putting up .200 ISOPs in the minors as scrawny as he is – also before AND after the PED fiasco). There is good reason for optimism with him. You got a guy flashing .300 one year, flashing a 14% walk rate the next, while also maintaining above average speed, power, defense and arm in both seasons.
Some say he showed a lack of range last year. I disagree with that. He showed really good range to me. When he screwed up defensively (which I thought he did too often), it seemed to be a poor positioning thing, poor route running, or poor judgment when a ball got near a wall, and he’d unfortunately let the ball and wall eat him up. He seemed like a fast kid too geeked up to prove how good and fast he is defensively. Kind of like when your girlfriend gets that little puppy for Christmas, and the little terror runs around in circles for hours like a madman, making himself dizzy (and also woozy from banging his head into every darn piece of furniture).
I just think Schafer’s problems defensively last year weren’t a lack of range issue. To me his problems were like the QB with the big arm who tries to show it off all the time, and hasn’t yet quite developed the touch he needs, or has the touch if he would just calm his emotions and overeager nature the hell down, or forgets to look to see if his deep man is double or triple covered. Or you can say Schafer was like the good young three point shooter who is shooting a terrible % because he is forcing bad off-balanced shots. The problem with that three point shooter ain’t that he isn’t a good three point shooter, but rather his problem is one of shot selection, or not coming off picks tightly enough, or not inching away enough to create more spacing when his point guard dribble penetrates and drags his man away from the three point shooter before kicking it to him. That sort of thing was Schafer’s problem defensively last year to me. He had the range just like the QB has the arm and the three point shooter has the shot. He just needs to fine tune some of the little things to best utilize his range.
There’s reason for plenty of pessimism too though. Reasons for pessimism for me include his K rates in the minors, and what I saw as his embarrassing inability to catch up to fastballs last year. That troubled me greatly to see out of a kid in his early twenties. I guess if we want to wear the rose colored glasses, we can easily dismiss that as a result of being injured.
But then you have to remember the scouting report from Keith Law from two years ago when Schafer was coming off his banner season where he led the minors in hits:
Schafer isn’t Grady Sizemore, but not many players are. He is an excellent athlete and has the strength in his arms to hit for average and power, but he has some mechanical issues. His load at the plate is a little too deep, and he doesn’t have the bat speed to overcome it, so he commits early and often ends up way out in front. He also gets too pull-conscious in games, despite showing a good whole-field approach in batting practice.
That obviously is a scouting report from two years ago, and alot could have changed in his mechanics since then (and there were many, most notably the esteemed Scoots, who scoffed at what Law said about Schafer’s “load” issues at the time).
But let’s just take that scouting report and believe every word of it for the sake of doing so. Does that not read somewhat like a Jeff Francoeur scouting report (although the mechanical flaw cited is different)? Inability to catch up to fastballs without cheating and committing early to overcome mechanical flaws and a lack of bat speed. So doing makes one susceptible to being victimized by breaking stuff and changeups. So doing also makes one susceptible to being pull happy. Not doing so prevents one from catching up to the fastball.
After reading what Law said and processing it, and then watching Schafer last season, and also looking at his K rates in the minors, can we so easily dismiss his problems with the bat last season as purely injury related?
Then you have to remember the patience/aggressiveness thing with him. He’s kind of got the KJ patience/aggressiveness approach dilemma working against him combined with possibly having the Frenchy like mechanical flaws working against him as well. We saw how confused the two of them got with on the one hand trying to make KJ more aggressive against his patient nature, and on the other hand trying to make Frenchy more patient and hitting the ball the other way even though his mechanics weren’t favorable to such.
Unless Schafer becomes more sound mechanically, it’s probably not in his interest to bother attempting to become a well-balanced hitter. He’ll likely have to be an extremist either way. He’s either gonna have to do the Frenchy Caveman thing when he was going well, and be aggressive and jump on fastballs early, with the understanding he’s susceptible to anything offspeed or outside. Or he’s gonna have to do the patient KJ thing when he was going well, and be patient and work counts, earn walks and wait for offspeed stuff to drive, with the understanding he can be easily victimized by hard stuff if he’s not committing his swing early to overcome his mechanical and bat speed problems.
The good news is that in his scouting report from two years ago, Law thought Schafer had the ability to become more mechanically sound and balanced as a hitter (as well as an excellent all around centerfielder):
On the plus side, the ball comes off his bat well, and if he can shorten up his swing, he should see improvement in his contact and long-term in his power output. He plays a strong center field with an above-average arm. I don’t project him as a top-shelf center fielder right now, but he is ranked this high (27th best prospect in baseball at the age of 21) because he has the physical tools to become one with some work on his swing.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
6:57 pm
One thing I am happy about this offseason is that the Braves have NOT traded away any prospects. The last trade of prospects I can remember is the McLouth trade where we gave up Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton, and Jeff Locke. And I doubt that we will ever miss any of them very much.
I appreciate that the Braves are building good teams for this year AND for future years.
LongtimeBravesfan
December 25th, 2009
7:01 pm
I can see us being excited a year from now as we contemplate Freeman at first, Heyward in RF and Schafer in CF. Then the Braves will be in a position to trade away outfielders.
Ernest
December 25th, 2009
7:01 pm
I just thought that some of you may not remember who Brad Komminsk is. You can read about him at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Komminsk
This was the most interesting comment:
Despite a sterling record in the minor leagues, he never played well in the majors.
You look for consistency and growth with players in the minors. Let him spend a FULL year in AAA then perhaps everyone can make a better evaluation regarding his future in the Bigs…
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:12 pm
Shafer hit .312 and had an OPS of .887 in 2007 his last uninterrupted year in the minors. He had 15 HRs, 10 Triples and 49 doubles in 626 AB. He has great range, a great arm, can steal a base and is a really natural baseball talent. He reminds me of a young Chipper when I see him live. Bill Reef
he doesn’t remind me of a young Chipper at all, and I’ll be amazed if he hits like you seem to think he will in the majors.We have had any number of guys who have torn up a minor league and were never anything special.I think he will be fine, but I have no illusions that he is Chipperish. 265/355/450 or so on an average, more than that I’ll have to see to believe.at least on any regular basis
Braveheart
December 25th, 2009
7:12 pm
Ernest, sorry, but anyone on this blog who didn’t experience Brad Komminsk is well-aware of who the hell he was because his freaking name was seemingly mentioned at least five times a day on here for five seasons while Jeff Francoeur played here.
Cherokee
December 25th, 2009
7:15 pm
his speed and defense will make him a valuable player, but he needs AB’s, period. He needs to start in AAA and spend a good chunk of time there to gain experience. Steve Oh
I agree, and I think he will probably spend time in AAA
AdirondackDave
December 25th, 2009
7:16 pm
Cherokee — I tend to agree with your view of Schafer. However, it he puts up 265/355/450 on a regular basis, with his strong defense at a key position, I’m fine with that. It would make him a plenty valuable part of the team.