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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
7,406 comments Add your comment
Eric from MO
December 24th, 2009
9:16 pm
Ncgary I agree about Uggla. I liked him when he first came up a few years ago, but he hasnt gotten any better, actually I think he has gotten worse. Im just not crazy about him and dont understand why others are. If he batted .270 I would be on board but he bats under .250 and doesnt hit enough homeruns to makeup for that and makeup for his lack of defensive ability.
Heyward
December 24th, 2009
9:16 pm
braves cutting back costs refered to them trading Javy, Chuck
Heyward
December 24th, 2009
9:18 pm
Eric from MO
December 24th, 2009
9:16 pm
Ncgary I agree about Uggla. I liked him when he first came up a few years ago, but he hasnt gotten any better, actually I think he has gotten worse. Im just not crazy about him and dont understand why others are. If he batted .270 I would be on board but he bats under .250 and doesnt hit enough homeruns to makeup for that and makeup for his lack of defensive ability.
Disagree he does hit enough homers, but his defense sucks, you are right. Prado had earned the right to play and no one unless it’s Chase Utley will move him from there. That is why I don’t get why everyone wants to trade for him…….lot easier to field a groundball then to catch a fly ball in my book, so we want him for the OF…come on
Tomahawkin
December 24th, 2009
9:19 pm
Nolie
I think Milky Cabrera’s defense is overrated too…A lot of people (obviously not Yankee fans) make him out to be a 4th outfielder a lot like Ben Francisco of the Phillies
Where are people getting the trade for Michael Cuddyer Rumors From…?
With Minnesota moving into a new ballpark next year, that doesn’t make sense in them wanting to slash payroll
tortured soul
December 24th, 2009
9:19 pm
Anyone else here waiting for the LSAT scores to come in. Christmas has never been less exciting… blah…
BossLady
December 24th, 2009
9:19 pm
Merry Christmas and a Prosperous Happy New Year!!!!
Tomahawkin
December 24th, 2009
9:20 pm
Eric From Mo
No to Dan Uggla as well! He already strikes out a ton andwe don’t need anymore 100K guys in the lineup, plus I think his power will diminish even though he does like hitting at Tooner Field
McFann O
December 24th, 2009
9:26 pm
DOB He lives in the north Atlanta suburbs, near McCann.
And the exact whereabouts would be……?
Runnin
December 24th, 2009
9:28 pm
I don’t understand the Uggla angle. Where would he play? He’s not going to want to sit on the bench. Prado is gonna be at 2nd.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
9:33 pm
Happy Holidays everyone!!!!!!!!
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
9:39 pm
sportsmandh……..I must say, your 10:05am posting earlier today was pretty impressive. You made some very solid points. I totally agree with your assessment that Billy Wagner will come out and surprise a lot of people this year.
Like you, I was never sold on Adam LaRoche. LaRoche is a notorious slow starter in the first half of the season. A hot second half of 2009 does not make me forget the previous seasons. With our line-up being left handed heavy to begin with, I feel that not re-signing LaRoche and giving Glaus a chance on the cheap was a smart move by Frank Wren.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
9:44 pm
dpelfrey………Your 10:33am posting brought up a very interesting view as far as Frank Wren establishing a roster of consistency, and dumping the nortoriously steaky players like KJ/Francoeur/and now LaRoche.
With our pitching, I’m more than ok with scoring 4 runs every night….instead of this “feast and famine” approach that our offense seem to have in stretches last year. 10-1 one game…….then we lose 2-1 the next night.
David O'Brien
December 24th, 2009
9:48 pm
Chuck James, I don’t think DeRo is risky either, assuming his wrist is sound and they’re sure he’ll be back to 100 percent. If so, if they can are confident he is fit, then I agree with you that he’s a real good fit for a team that needs an experienced guy with some power who can play a variety of positions, most notably first and third bases, where the Braves have two aging and/or injury-plagued vets who might miss significant time.
But I could also see where Nady would be a good fit, provided he’s amenable to first base if needed there. That would, in effect, give them experienced backups at 1B and 3B, since Glaus can simply move over to 3B if Chipper is hurt or needs a break. On the other hand, if Glaus and Chipper were to be hurt at the same time, well, that would negate that.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
9:52 pm
After researching what the Braves bring in revenue wise I do not think anybody other than the team it self can gauge that accurately. So any discussion about it is complete conjecture and can not be substantiated.with proof.
Macon Braves (RIP)
I will concede to your point about ticket sales alone. However, you add vendor, concessions, and parking it will come close to paying their payroll. You have to figure taxes in there somewhere and that probably eats up some.
GboroBravo
December 24th, 2009
9:55 pm
DOB thats what Infante and Prado are for…Prado goes to third and Infante goes to 2nd
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
9:57 pm
Lew………your 11:14am posting doesnt address the opposite viewpoint. Sports is a business.
You seem to think that Braves fans need to start showing up and spending their hard earned money before ownership decides to increase payroll. However, I have the total opposite viewpoint. I feel that ownership should increase payroll and go after a player like a Matt Holliday, which in my view would excite the fan base to the point where the casual fan would be more willing to spend money on tickets, parking, concessions, etc. because they see that the Braves are not only committed to winning, but that they are also exciting and entertaining to watch.
If Big Business followed your viewpoint, innovation would be at a standstill. For instance, do you think that car buyers should buy a “hunk of SH!T” of a car….just to show a car company that the car buyer is serious about buying cars, thereby giving the car company incentive to make a better car? If you really believe that, then you cant be reasoned with. If the American consumer believed like you believe, then they would be a bunch of suckers.
If Braves fans started showing up in droves BEFORE the Braves started investing money into improving the team……..ownership would have little incentive to improve the team.
What I’ve been saying all along rings true: Ownership needs to give the fans a reason to spend money on the team. If the Braves were to pony up the kind of cash it takes to sign Matt Holliday, I guarantee you that our fan base would be very excited……and season tickets and same day game ticket sales would spike upwards. That is how you increase revenue.
Remember, one has to spend money in order to make money. I am not saying that a team should foolishly spend money like the Mets and Orioles do. However, putting Matt Holliday in the clean-up spot, between Chipper and McCann would not be a foolish thing to do.
P. W. Hjort
December 24th, 2009
10:01 pm
I fail to see how keeping Cuddyer prohibits the Twins from locking Mauer up long-term. We don’t have a complete picture of their financials but what’s $13 million or so out of the 150-250 it’s going to take to lock Mauer up long-term.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:04 pm
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z (who is this masked marauder)
1995 World Series.
What did David Justice say about Braves Fans.
How many postseason did we go and see empty seats while having a top three payroll team. The latter part of our run and at the highest peak of payroll our attendance declined.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:06 pm
Billy (TBFKB)………how’s the crime beat at the El Cortez?
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:10 pm
Billy (TBFKB)……….From 1991 to 1996, I dont recall seeing too many empty seats at play-off games.
Justice was traded after the 1996 season. That, combined with the sting of how we lost the 96 World Series to the Yankees was the beginning of seeing empty seats in Fulton County and then Turner Field in the play-offs. But before then, I remember seeing nothing but sellouts and fans doing the Tomahawk.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:11 pm
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
Why you got all them dots in your name? Don’t make me break it out, don’t do it, its Christmas.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:12 pm
So Braves fan were stinging for 7 years?
Eric from MO
December 24th, 2009
10:12 pm
Lentz you clown. What about when the Braves were one of the top payrolls and in the playoffs every year and yet still not attendance. Even empty seats in the playoffs. Come to a real baseball town like St. Louis and you would never see that.
GDG
December 24th, 2009
10:20 pm
I’ll say it again – last year the Braves spent $95 million in payroll. Wren and others (such as Bowman) have said the Braves budget for 2010 will be about the same. The players currently under contract and their salaries (or expected salaries following arbitration) are as follows: Chipper ($13 mil), McCann ($5.5 mil), McLouth ($4.5 mil), Diaz ($2.55 mil), Ross ($1.6 mil), Infante ($2.25 mil), Lowe ($15 mil), Hudson ($9 mil), Kawakami ($6.7 mil), Saito ($3.2 mil), Wagner ($6.75 mil), Glaus ($2 mil), Cabrera (approx $3 mil less $500K cash from Yanks), Escobar, Prado, Jurrjens, Hanson, Medlin (approx $500k each). Current contracts add up to about $77 mil. (My numbers currently exclude Moylan and whichever other middle relievers the Braves settle on, but the collective price for those should not exceed $3 mil or so). That means the Braves ought to have at least $15 million left to spend. Any argument?
Given that, the Braves will either go for one big bat (I’m betting only Holliday or Bay could earn in that range, but I don’t think the Braves will go for the length of contract they demand) OR the Braves may go for two players, an outfielder and a second baseman. Second base looks to be Uggla (expected arbitration salary in the $8 mil range) or Dero ($6 mil maybe). Taking a second baseman means Prado ($500k) or Infante ($2.25mil) is expendible (additional savings). The outfield picture has too many possibles, but I would look to Nady ($8-10 mil?), Swisher (expected arbitration in the $8 mil range), or some other trade.
Rick
December 24th, 2009
10:23 pm
My Top 10 CDs of this year :
The Toast Kids – Ridin’ High
Blue Sunday – Going Down Slow
Blind Blake – Police Dog Blues
Robert Johnson – Poison Woman
Tequila Cat – Don’t Rain On Me
Desert Fox – Winning Shot
Hank Williams – Audrey Killing Time
Merle Haggard – Fuzzy Owen’s Gone
Mozart – I Hate Hayden
Beethoven – I Won’t Roll Over
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:23 pm
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
Well Lentz you were wrong attendance increased for the 97 season and then subsequently tapered off until 2003
Efrim
December 24th, 2009
10:24 pm
Already added to the Rome roster on MiLB.com: http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=t432&t=p_pbp&pid=527055
Pretty nice to hear how highly thought of Vizcaino, Teheran and R. Delgado are.
Eric from MO
December 24th, 2009
10:25 pm
GDG thanks, I know people were saying that we were at about 80 million, but I didnt see anyone present every salary. I dont understand then why they are saying we only have 8-10 left.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:26 pm
Eric from MO………..dude, I’ve been laying off the name calling tonight. Why dont you extend the same courtesy?
I know that St. Louis is a much biggest baseball town than Atlanta. Just because attracting the casual fan in Atlanta takes a little more innovation on the part of ownership, does not mean that it cant be done. Our ownership needs to work a little harder.
I think that a part of the problem in a city like Atlanta was that our team was built on pitching. The casual fan wants to see home runs. They want to see a big bopper who has some personality and will draw a reaction from the fans.
David Justice was that kind of player. Sure, we’ve had home run hitters. However, because of the way Bobby Cox manages, we tend to have players who are all “business” when it comes to their on the field persona. The “all business” approach does not put the casual fan into the seats.
Rip Deion Sanders all you want, however his back and forth trips from the Falcons and Braves during the 1991 season definitely helped create a buzz among the casual fan.
Matt Holliday is the kind of superstar that I think could revitalize the Atlanta fan base. He’s established, plays hard, and has personality. And with Jason Heyward coming on the horizon, the Braves could have 2 players who can excite both the white and black casual fan base.
Chipper Jones, as great as he’s been for the Braves, is not the kind of player who generates buzz among the casual fan base. You rarely see Chipper display emotion on the field. He’s pretty much all business on the field.
I know that many of you may not want to hear this, but I feel that if the Braves had signed Barry Bonds after the 1992 season, instead of Greg Maddox…….then we’d won more than 1 World championship. While Maddux won a lot of games for the Braves, he didnt put the “fear of God” into the opposition in the post season. Barry Bonds (steroids or not), put the fear of God into opposing pitching staffs in the post season.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:26 pm
This decade our highest payroll team drew the second fewest fans annually.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:28 pm
Billy (TBFKB)……….I’m talking seeing empty seats for divisional play-off games. You didnt see any empty seats for any of the Braves play-off games from 1991-1996. After that is when you started to see that trend.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:29 pm
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z,
Honesly you have a valid argument with Holliday. I do not agree with it. I wouldnt travel from Vegas to go see the Braves for Holliday. I would go see them for Chipper, BMAC, Yunnel and JJ. Thats me though. How many fair weather fans know who holliday is?
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:31 pm
Lentz,
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/bravatte.shtml
Look at that and tell me that having a high payroll effected attendance.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:32 pm
Billy (TBFKB)….in my 9:57pm posting, I stated that a team has to spend money in order to make money. However, I also said that does not mean that I condone foolishly spending money like the Mets and Orioles do.
I do not think that spending $18 mil a year on Matt Holliday would be a foolish signing….given what he would be bringing to the team.
nolie
December 24th, 2009
10:34 pm
I dont understand then why they are saying we only have 8-10 left. Erik Mo
cause the guy wasn’t right about what is already budgeted
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:34 pm
Paying any player on a 25 man roster 20% of your payroll is a bad investment. That is why we all wanted Lowe traded.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:37 pm
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
If you had to choose who would you rather have Crawford or Holliday?
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:37 pm
Billy (TBFKB)……….It’s not so much that I think that Holliday by himself could drastically increase attendance. It’s the impact that his bat would have in our line-up that would result in the fans coming out in droves to see the Braves.
Just imagine what kind of pitches Chipper Jones would get to hit, hitting in front of Holliday? When you had Garrett Anderson hitting behind you in stretches last year……I dont blame Chipper for the struggles he had last year. Do you think that Chipper would be pitched around in 2010 if he had Holliday behind him to punish them?
Just imagine how many more RBI opportunities that Brian McCann and Yunel Escobar would have with Chipper and Holliday getting on base regularly?
I just feel that the rest of the line-up would feed off the energy that Holliday would bring to Atlanta. Just look at how he played in Colorado and St. Louis.
Holliday, combined with Jason Heyward emerging……would revitalize both the white and black casual fan base.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:41 pm
Billy (TBFKB)……….your 10:34pm posting isnt totally correct. The reason the Braves wanted to trade Lowe wasnt solely because he took up 20% of the payroll. It was because his performance on the field did not justify taking up 20% of the payroll. If Lowe went 20-5 with an ERA of 2.50, then he’d be worth his salary.
Matt Holliday would be worth every penny of the projected $18 mil a year we had to pay him if we could sign him.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:43 pm
Billy (TBFKB)……….While I like Carl Crawford, I’d take Holliday, no contest. Holliday is right handed and has power.
Ironically, Crawford is a Braves type player. Pretty quiet and has an all business approach to the game. I dont think that Crawford would have the effect on attendance that Holliday would.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:46 pm
Billy (TBFKB)……….I asked you earlier how was the crime beat at the El Cortez?
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:46 pm
I do not disagree with that point Lentz. I disagree with the business sense of it. It’s going to take five at least to lock up Holliday. That takes us into BMAC renegotiation, Escobars, JJ’s, and Hansons. If we sign Holiday one of those players we will lose. Not to mention Heyward will be in arbitration.
Don’t believe the BS about no interest in either Bay or Holliday. Both are waiting for the other to sign and the small market teams that are interested are playing chicken with the Yankee’s, Sox, and Mets.
Salamander
December 24th, 2009
10:47 pm
It still blows my mind just how many bands I’ve never heard of (not even considering the numerous genres I haven’t indulged yet). Almost everyone’s favorite albums list includes several artists I’ve either never heard of or didn’t get the opportunity to check out. So it goes.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:48 pm
One other note. How much you think Holliday benefited from King Albert. I love chipper but he is not on the same level as Pujols.
P. W. Hjort
December 24th, 2009
10:48 pm
GDG,
One thing to consider, insurance paid for at least a portion of Hudson’s 2010 salary. That’s money that drives the observed payroll up, and money they didn’t actually spend.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:50 pm
Lentz your 10:41 pm
For one or maybe two years what about the latter part of his contract.
Goldenglove002
December 24th, 2009
10:51 pm
wow, that Rome pitching staff is a reason to take a drive up there this year. Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, Minor, Spruil, DeVall. Wow!
now the offense on the other hand…
benchwarmer
December 24th, 2009
10:51 pm
Hey DOB, when your in need of a zen moment or two check out a dude named Scott August. Not metal not rock not pop, and I like some of all of that, but a top musician in his style. And have a listen to Jonatha Brooke’s album “The Works”. All songs were developed from the Woody Guthrie library of unpublished poems, partial lyrics and random writings.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:51 pm
Billy (TBFKB)……….I think that the revenues in baseball will go up in 5 years. If the Braves have a $95 mil payroll in 5 years, then we will be at a serious competitive disadvantage.
I figure that Holliday will sign a 7 or 8 year deal. $18 mil a year 6 years down the line wont be quite the same as $18 mil today. As long as the Braves draft well and develop Minor League talent, we will be able to have a mix of cheap young talent and pricey veterans.
Remember, Derek Lowe’s $15 mil a year contract expires in 3 years (just when Tommy Hanson will be eligible for arbitration). Also, Tim Hudson’s $9 mil a year expires in 3 years as well. And dont forget that Chipper’s $13 mil a year as well will come off the books in 3 years. That’s $37 mil coming off the books in 3 years.
The money will be there.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:56 pm
Billy (TBFKB)………..Before the Holliday trade, teams pitched around Pujols. With Holliday in the line-up, it moved everyone behind Pujols one spot, thereby strengthening those spots in the batting order.
Pujols benefited from having Holliday hitting behind him in the second half of the season. I can only imagine what effect having a legit clean-up hitter like Holliday would have on Chipper Jones.
Efrim
December 24th, 2009
10:56 pm
I don’t think the Braves would have to trade nearly as much for Uggla as people think. He’s got two more years left prior to free agency, and that last year of arbitration could be more than 10 million. Florida knows this. A team might be able to get him for less than you’d think.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:57 pm
5 key players for 37 million. 7.2 million per player. If Hanson and Heyward explode like everyone says they will eat more than 7 million. BMAC will make more than 10 million if he does not falter. Escobar if he continues to improve will be one of the highest paid SS in the buisness. JJ will make 10 millioin +. Not to mention any other FA we will need to sign between now and then. Were going to need a 3B or SS in the near future.
Efrim
December 24th, 2009
10:58 pm
Goldenglove002, I think R. Delgado, Minor and Spruill will start at the Beach in 2010. But you’re right, they do have a lot of promising young arms in the low minors. More than most teams. Just wish they had some position players to balance out the system.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
10:59 pm
Billy (TBFKB)……….dont you mean 3 key players for $37 mil (Chipper at $13 mil, Lowe at $15 mil, and Hudson at $9 mil) coming off the books in 3 years?
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
10:59 pm
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
How can you not say Glaus wont have the potential to do that for Chipper. I think its far more likely that Glaus reaches his projection than he doesn’t. Not to mention for 16 million less.
GDG
December 24th, 2009
11:02 pm
Eric from MO, nolie, and P.W. Hjort,
Most of my salary numbers come from a Sept. 2, 2009 post by Mark Bowman (beat writer) on the Braves website. I’m confident in their accuracy unless you have seen something specifically disputing them. That’s what I’m looking for – what do you have that specifically disputes any of my numbers? Please note P.W. Hjort that my numbers are NOT driven by what has changed since last year (i.e., regardless of what portion of Huddy’s pay was picked up by insurance last year, the Braves are budgeting to pay him $9 mil this year).
Thanks.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 24th, 2009
11:05 pm
Billy (TBFKB)…………I’m hoping that Glaus will have a rebound year and win ‘Comeback Player of the Year’. However, at this point, it’s asking a lot to expect a player coming off a shoulder injury to be a force in the clean-up spot.
Besides, how many legit clean-up hitters out there are making $2 mil a year?
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
December 24th, 2009
11:05 pm
I do not think that spending $18 mil a year on Matt Holliday would be a foolish signing….given what he would be bringing to the team.
I think spending $18 million a year for any player for 8 years borders on the insane. How many long term contracts work out in the long run?
One other factor, a contract like that will take 20% of the entire payroll and it will further exagerate the Braves’ problems with their young stars when time comes to try to hold onto them.
As a matter of fact I don’t know of any player I would sign for 8 years nor pay $18 million to. Neither makes any sense to me. And that includes Albert Puholz. I simply think it would be a terrible business move
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
11:06 pm
No the players that will be due big buck is 5 players for 37 million.
Brian McCann will be a $10M player
Escobar will be a 10M player
JJ will be a 10M player
Hanson will be a 4M player (unless he duplicates what he did last year for three more years….then we are talking about TL dollars (SF Pitcher cant spell his name)
Heyward (Could be a $7M player depending how he progress the next three years)
3B or SS FA signing
OF FA Signing(s)
Our budget will increase in 3 years but not at the rate of upcoming arb guys salaries. Will Holliday in three years be worth $18M. This is where our disagreement comes. I think if Wren was able to sign him to a 3yr deal he would but Holliday wants more years and thats not the way the Braves operate.
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
December 24th, 2009
11:07 pm
If Glaus earns “comeback of the year” that means he will have had a heckuva year and that he has made a lot of money on incentives and will be in a great spot to earn even more in 2011. I hope he does all those things.
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
11:09 pm
One other note Liberty is going to sell this team and that will effect payroll. They will likley slash pay roll at least marginally when they get ready to sell.
Which just make me think.. When can they sell? Is not it 2011? I’m starting to get suspicious.
DOB you know when liberty can sell?
armchair
December 24th, 2009
11:10 pm
No, no, no: You’re missing the point, O’Brien. And you’re drinking the Kool-Aid offered by a cheap team. The Braves have missed the playoffs three or so years! The fans want the Braves to get back in the playoffs, naturally. They came close last year thanks to great pitching, but the team’s hitting was suspect and the power numbers weren’t good. The obvious goal in the off-season was to bolster the offense while keeping the pitching staff close to intact. Do that and the Braves are a legit contender. Instead, Wren lets two young, live-armed relievers go, because he didn’t want to pay them or couldn’t pay them–and brings in an OLD reliever (Wagner) to fill the gap. Then he trades arguably the team’s top pitcher–a genuine workhorse– for prospects and a “serviceable” outfielder. The team is not better; it’s probably worse.
The Braves don’t need another “serviceable” player–they’ve had them out the wazoo for years. That’s why they aren’t contenders anymore–they’re always hoping to find lightening in a bottle with guys like Melky Cabrera–please: here for a year or two, then traded away for another middling player, and the beat goes on. Pitching prospects? GMs of cheap teams are always blathering about prospects because that’s all they’ve got. The Braves already had a stud staff, so why would anyone get excited about the prospect of having a stud staff in, say, three years, or four or whatever!? You seem to be saying: Yea, well, the team was close to good, now it may have taken a step or two back–but don’t get mad: The Braves might REALLY be good in three years when those prospects are ready. And we know that, more often than not, prospects don’t turn into good MLB players. The Braves are one step up from the Pirates—and starting to sound like them.
ksu4189
December 24th, 2009
11:13 pm
IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THE BRAVES TO TRADE FOR UGGLA SIGN NADY AND KEEP MELKY PLEASE SOMEONE LET ME KNOW THANK YOU
Billy (TBFKB)
December 24th, 2009
11:17 pm
ksu
Yes
okiebravos
December 24th, 2009
11:25 pm
Just curious, what position do you see Uggla playing if braves were to get him.
bravesfaninnc
December 24th, 2009
11:25 pm
Why would liberty want to sell the braves? Has liberty lost money since buying the braves?? Btw i think it safe to say that liberty has been much better owner then TWC was
Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
December 24th, 2009
11:25 pm
And my top 100 songs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsNqxTEniNI&feature=PlayList&p=2597BF631157FEAE&index=0&playnext=1
Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
December 24th, 2009
11:27 pm
(Thought this had already come through before my 11:25)
Albums of the Year
20. The Knot by Wye Oak
19. Exploding Head by A Place to Bury Strangers
18. Black Sails at Midnight by Alestorm
17. Fantasies by Metric
16. Underneath the Owl by Riverboat Gamblers
15. xx by The XX
14. The Resistance by Muse
13. Face Control by The Handsome Furs
12. Light by Matisyahu
11. Wilco (The Album) by Wilco
10. Ordinary Riches by Company of Thieves
9. Rose City by Viva Voce
8. Taller Children by Elizabeth & The Catapult
7. Spinnerette by Spinnerette
6. To Lose My Life… by White Lies
5. The Mountain by Heartless Bastards
4. C is for (Please Insert Sophomoric Genitalia Reference Here) by Puscifer
3. Burn Burn by Our Lady Peace
2. Horehound by The Dead Weather
1. I and Love and You by The Avett Brothers
Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
December 24th, 2009
11:27 pm
Top 100 songs are in reverse order. Wilco (The Song) was not my favorite.
Marc in FL
December 24th, 2009
11:29 pm
I don’t know how crazy I am about Nady, I have mixed feeling, but he does makes a lot of sense for what the Braves need right now. May not be the big name we’re hoping for, but he would be both logical and (if healthy) productive.
Andrew in PA
December 24th, 2009
11:34 pm
i dont see the braves getting both uggla and nady..where would you play them?
Rob in pain from (SC)
December 24th, 2009
11:38 pm
FOr everyone clamoring for Matt Holliday and Jason Bay, there iss a reason why they are still free agents as we approach the New Year. They are not the type of players who deserve 15-18 million dollars a year for 5 plus years. THe Red Sox and Yankees who can spend as much as they want don’t seem interested. They are both one dimensional players. They don’t run well, are below average in the field, and their arms are below average as well. I am glad we are passing on both players.
okiebravos
December 24th, 2009
11:40 pm
Personally, I don’t think Uggla is a good fit with the braves. Why would we want to move Prado? I understand we can float him to several different positions if someone got hurt and play Infante at 2nd. But I feel he proved himself enough to start the season at 2nd.
Andrew in PA
December 24th, 2009
11:40 pm
well while were on with signing old people we should just get nady and delgado..delgado and glaus at first would be a nice little combo..nady,nate,melky and diaz could work,with heyward waiting
okiebravos
December 24th, 2009
11:43 pm
DOB, we are having blizzard conditions in Oklahoma as well. In all 30 years of my existence that has never happened before. It’s crazy outside.
okiebravos
December 24th, 2009
11:45 pm
Well it’s time to play Santa. Merry Christmas all braves fans.
P. W. Hjort
December 24th, 2009
11:46 pm
Yes, GDG, though you’ve missed the point I was attempting to make. Mark Bowman tells us that Wren says payroll will be about where it was last year. But where was it last year? We have no way of knowing if we don’t know how much of Huddy’s salary was picked up by insurance. And, therefore, we really don’t know what 2010 payroll will look like. That’s my point. Frank Wren essentially tells us nothing useful (to us) though probably not incorrect when he makes that statement. It’s a sort of white lie, he’s sugar-coating it and simultaneously avoiding the dissemination of information.
Green Tinted Sixties Mind
December 24th, 2009
11:47 pm
DOB,
Would you please put your non-baseball comments on TV Shows, Music, etc. in another shaded color so I won’t waste my time on them when skimming the blog. Thanks in Advance, Merry Christmas, otherwise the product is superb.
Venice Jim
December 24th, 2009
11:50 pm
Rob – Merry Christmas – hope the healing progresses well in the new year!
ronaldh
December 24th, 2009
11:53 pm
I want to make this clear. I am not a fan of Frank (the bird) Wren. I have not for some time. Think about this. We would have liked to have traded Lowe but we couldn’t because his contract calls for $45 million over the next three years (isn’t that what the article says?). That means that just about everyone in baseball thinks that Lowe is being paid far more than he is worth. Can anyone please tell me who gave him that contract that makes him so unattractive????? Could his initials be “Frank Wren?” I’ll tell you what I believe. I believe that that the Braves will not contend again until that bird is long gone. Get us a real general manager. While you’re at it, get us a real owner. Bahhh Humbug!
David O'Brien
December 25th, 2009
12:01 am
Before I shut off the laptop tonight, thought I’d share another of the answers from Chipper from the Q&A I did with him on Monday, the day before the Vazquez trade and two days before the Glaus agreement. The Q&A is going to run in full, I think, in two parts Jan. 1 and Jan. 2 in the paper. They’ll put it up in its entirety on the website right before that, I would imagine.
This answer I found interesting, not just because it indicates to me that Chipper has been kept in the loop on things, but also because it show how he seems to be looking at the bigger picture from a little different perspective as the elder on the team, etc.
I asked him if he’d talked to LaRoche about the possibility of coming back to the Braves [remember, this was right before they signed Gload].
CHIPPER: “If the players could determine which players come in and what players go, obviously everybody loves Adam LaRoche — all his teammates love him, he’s a good guy. Unfortunately we don’t always think about the ramifications of the raise that Rochy’s going to get on the free-agent market. Quite frankly the raise he’s got due to him is outside our [the Braves'] purse strings. We don’t always agree with it, but you come to understand it as you get older. If B-Mac [Brian McCann] and I had anything to say about it, LaRoche, [free agent] Mark DeRosa, all the guys we want would be here. But Frank’s got a budget he’s got to work under, and other parts he has to get to fit in a salary structure we don’t always think about.
“But up until now … if you’re going to go out and replace a Gonzalez and Soriano, he’s done a good job with a Wagner, Saito and [Jesse] Chavez. The position stuff hasn’t happened yet, but I feel confident there’s stuff on the burner that’s quickly coming to a boil and some pieces are going to be falling into place pretty soon.”
(Quickly coming to a boil, indeed.)
richbrave
December 25th, 2009
12:02 am
FELIZ NAVIDAD!!
richbrave
December 25th, 2009
12:04 am
DAVE:
Enjoy the boarding.
jeffrey d
December 25th, 2009
12:06 am
Could his initials be “Frank Wren?”
That’s not initials.
jeffrey d
December 25th, 2009
12:09 am
Hey, look at the time…Merry Christmas everyone! I’ve got to head to bed…busy day tomorrow. But I hope everyone has a great holiday, and that we remember why we celebrate this day.
Merry Christmas
richbrave
December 25th, 2009
12:10 am
My wife of 42 years just commented before I came upstairs that the last White Christmas we had was when we were dating. Thinking back, I concurred. It actually snowed Christmas eve into Christmas morning in 1965, and it snowed on December 21 in 1966. There’s only been snow in the lee of shadows once since. Plenty this time however. Merry Christmas everyone.
SCJames
December 25th, 2009
12:14 am
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO DOB AND ALL THE BLOGGERS!!!!!!!!!
David O'Brien
December 25th, 2009
12:18 am
DOB,
Would you please put your non-baseball comments on TV Shows, Music, etc. in another shaded color so I won’t waste my time on them when skimming the blog. Thanks in Advance, Merry Christmas, otherwise the product is superb. – Green Tinted Sixties Mind
Green Tinted Sixties Mind,
Thanks for the suggestion. No, I will not.
richbrave
December 25th, 2009
12:18 am
nolie
December 24th, 2009
5:47 pm
Rich now that’s some great music buddy . I have all of that and tons more
My man, let’s lay some down from time to time.
P. W. Hjort
December 25th, 2009
12:22 am
I want to make this clear. I am not a fan of Frank (the bird) Wren. I have not for some time. Think about this. We would have liked to have traded Lowe but we couldn’t because his contract calls for $45 million over the next three years (isn’t that what the article says?). That means that just about everyone in baseball thinks that Lowe is being paid far more than he is worth. Can anyone please tell me who gave him that contract that makes him so unattractive????? Could his initials be “Frank Wren?” I’ll tell you what I believe. I believe that that the Braves will not contend again until that bird is long gone. Get us a real general manager. While you’re at it, get us a real owner. Bahhh Humbug!
Like no other GM’s hand out bad contracts. Please. It happens to the best of them (see Epstein, Theo RE: Lugo, Julio). You’re just being hypercritical. If the Lowe contract is the worst thing he’s done, well, then he’s a pretty good GM.
David O'Brien
December 25th, 2009
12:26 am
Bear: As part of its agreement when it bought the Braves, Liberty Media agreed to retain ownership at least for the current collective bargaining agreement, which runs through the 2011 season. Braves CEO Terry McGuirk told me in late September that he believed Liberty Media was “enjoying” ownership of the team so much that it might keep it for years beyond that. The poor economy also makes it less desirable for owners to sell sports teams right now.
Here’s a link to the story I wrote on Sept. 22: http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/braves-mcguirk-team-headed-144100.html
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
12:29 am
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum………You cant tell me that Albert Pujols isnt worth $18 mil.
Case in point: That beautiful ball park in San Francisco (AT&T Park) would have NEVER been built if the Giants had not signed Barry Bonds. The Giants were on their way to St. Petersburg, Florida when MLB intervened and forced Bob Lurie to sell the Giants to Peter McGowan. Giants attendance was 19K in 1992. It jumped to 32K in 1993. 13K fans times 81 is over 1 mil additional fans.
Sure, the Giants almost winning the NL West helped. However, the Giants would not have been close to the Braves if it wasnt for Bonds. The Giants went from being on a Ryder truck to Florida to winning 103 games the next year, to a couple of years later breaking ground on Pac Bell Park. When Bonds was hitting home runs in right field and into the San Francisco Bay after the park was built, ask Peter McGowan how much the cash register was ringing.
Barry Bonds signing as a free agent saved baseball in San Francisco.
I’m not saying that baseball in Atlanta is in as bad a shape as it was in San Francisco in 1992. However I’m countering you assertion that a player cant be worth $18 mil.
Look at Michael Vick. You couldnt give away Falcons tickets before he was drafted. Regardless of how well of a quarterback he was……the fans in Atlanta came out in droves and sold out the Georgia Dome to see him play. One cant say that Vick wasnt entertaining to watch. On any given Sunday, Vick could do something on the field that would make a fan, years later, say “I was at the Falcons game when Vick did such and such”. That is what brings the casual fan to the park. The hope of potentially seeing something “special and amazing” happen that night.
Authur Blank made MILLIONS off of Michael Vick. Matt Ryan is not selling out the Georgia Dome. Matt Ryan didnt create a waiting list for Falcon tickets. However when Vick was quarterbacking the Falcons, there was a waiting list for season tickets. Scalpers made a killing outside the Georgia Dome. However, ask a scalper how much they are making off of Matt Ryan now days?
While I wouldnt put Matt Holliday into the same category as Vick or Bonds……..I certainly feel that he can have an impact both on and off the field for the Braves. His prescence in the Braves line-up and locker room would breethe some freaking life into our team. This “business approach” that we’ve had for years is lame and boring. Winning games isnt enough. People want a product that is entertaining to watch.
Look at Hollywood. How many Oscar worthy films are top grossing films? Adam Sandler, who will never sniff an Oscar, makes well over $20 mil a film. However, how much money do you think that Daniel Day-Lewis makes per film? Who the better actor is is irrelevant. It’s who puts A$$ in the seats is what determines how much an actor can command per film.
richbrave
December 25th, 2009
12:32 am
tr
December 24th, 2009
7:10 pm
richbrave
Loved your list, especially the swing and jazz
Elegant music for another time, that swing.
David O'Brien
December 25th, 2009
12:33 am
Current contracts add up to about $77 mil. (My numbers currently exclude Moylan and whichever other middle relievers the Braves settle on, but the collective price for those should not exceed $3 mil or so). That means the Braves ought to have at least $15 million left to spend. Any argument? — GDG
Yes. Your figures are off a little. If you go back to last night at some point, I explained to another person who had Chipper at $13 mill and Kawakami too low, etc., why those numbers were off and why the Braves are closer to about $82-83 mill now. Unfortunately, doesn’t mean a whole lot to us because they simply haven’t said exactly what they plan to spend for 2010, other than it will probably be “close” to the 2009 payroll, which was somewhere between $92-95 mill depending on when it was calculated and how and by whom.
Just so you know, prorated portions of signing bonuses are included in the player’s salary number for payroll purposes, and the $2 mill bonus that Kawakami got up front last year to help him get a house, etc., is not counted against last year’s payroll but spread over the three-year contract, so his salary number is the same for each year — $7.66 mill for payroll purposes.
Braves don’t have $15 mill to spend, is the gist of it. I was assured of that by someone who knows. He wouldn’t tell me how much exactly, but said that half that was closer to the true number. So, I’m figuring they are willing to spend perhaps another $7 mill to $10 mill.
TnBrian
December 25th, 2009
12:41 am
When my grandpa talks Braves baseball he comes alive, man. Old timer thinks DeRosa would be a good one to get, and thinks Wren would be nuts not to get another hitter of DeRo’s quality. I think Nady would be a better, cheaper solution and they’re both injury prone.
DOB, I’m not trying to be a-hole to you here, but I have a question… why are you now speaking of players like DeRosa,Nady,Uggla that they could target but just the other day when the Glaus to Braves thing went down you thought that might be the last of the big moves for the offseason? We all have those knee-jerk reactions, but was just curious as to why the mind change?
IPayForAOL
December 25th, 2009
12:43 am
Pos: Name: 2010 Salary
SP - Tim Hudson $9,000,000
SP - Jair Jurrjens $400,000
SP - Tommy Hanson $400,000
SP - Derek Lowe $15,000,000
SP - Kenshin Kawakami $7,333,333
RP - Billy Wagner $7,000,000
RP - Takashi Saito+ $5,700,000
RP - Peter Moylan* $1,500,000
RP - Eric O’Flaherty $400,000
RP - Kris Medlen $400,000
RP - Jesse Chavez $400,000
RP - Michael Dunn $400,000
C - Brian McCann $5,666,666
1B - Troy Glaus+ $2,000,000
2B - Martin Prado $400,000
SS - Yunel Escobar $400,000
3B - Chipper Jones $14,000,000
LF - Matt Diaz $2,550,000
CF - Nate McLouth $4,500,000
RF - Jason Heyward $400,000
BC – David Ross $1,600,000
UT - Omar Infante $1,850,000
UT -
OF - Melky Cabrera* $3,000,000
OF - Brandon Jones $400,000
DL - Scott Proctor# $750,000
Total $85,449,999
+ = Incentives
* = Arbitration
# = Split Contract
Roman Gal
December 25th, 2009
12:49 am
Merry Christmas to everyone!!
TnBrian
December 25th, 2009
12:51 am
Since DOB just gave an approx. amount of how much the Braves have left to spend I’ll tell my grandpa tomorrow when I go up there. He was asking if I knew and it gives us something to talk about. Worried about the guy, not looking too good right now and he needs his mind on what he loves.
If it’s around $7-8M left in the budget I wouldn’t be surprised to see Wren wait around a bit, like the summer, to grab another bat. Hope not, but that ain’t much left. I really thought they had somewhere in the $15M range left, but his figures seem to make more sense to me now.
TnBrian
December 25th, 2009
12:52 am
Sorry, $7-10M left to spend is what I meant.
.P.a.u.l .L.e.n.t.z
December 25th, 2009
12:54 am
David O’Brien…………Only in sports will people say that “the consumer has to show the owner of a business that the owner should invest more money into the business”…before the owner will invest more money into the business.
In the business world, consumers would quit doing business with a company if the company put out a SH!TTY product because of budget constraints. The business would go out of business.
Yet in sports, fans are more than willing to use “payroll restraints” as an excuse for mediocrity.
Ownership can cry wolf all they want. If they want the fans to come out, give the fans a reason to come out. Put an entertaining product out there.
Let me tell you why soccer will NEVER catch on in America (at least in popularity when compared to baseball, football and basketball): Not enough offense. Fans in America like offense. We want to see home runs, touchdowns and 3 point shots. We want to see teams throw the ball, run a fast break offense and mash the baseball.
Now, I’m not saying that there isnt value in pitching and defense. I’m saying that the casual fan could pretty much care less about pitching and defense. Casual fans want to see offense. If the Braves had an offensive player who could light some fire into our offense and give the fans something to cheer about……then attendance would jump. Like it or now, baseball teams need the casual fan in order to make a comfortable profit and have payroll flexibility.
So all this talk of giving ownership an “out” when it comes to payroll restraints is a bunch of bull. If ownership keeps the status quo……then dont be surprised when only legit Braves fans come to the park in relatively small numbers…..because the casual fan is staying home.
Just look at the Atlanta Hawks: Their attendance (and performance on the court) eventually spiked after they signed Joe Johnson and drafted Josh Smith. Smith is simply an athletic, electrifying player. Joe Johnson is a stud on the court. When was the last time that the Braves signed an offensive free agent to a contract similar to what the Hawks signed Joe Johnson to?
Spend money, show the fans you are committed to winning, and then see what happens. 3 years ago (when Vick was leading the Falcons to the play-offs and the Braves had the “baby Braves” playing for them), who would have thought that in 3 years time, the Hawks would be the most entertaining show in town? People in Atlanta want to be seen at a Hawks game. Who would have ever thought that?