Maybe Braves get back to LaRoche, maybe not

VaBraveFan…….in your 4:36pm posting……it would have been prudent to add:

Lowe + $15 mil for a “bag of balls” type Minor Leaguer.

There is a difference between a “prospect” and a Minor Leaguer. A prospect is a Minor League player who has potential to be a productive player in the Majors. Again, nothing is guaranteed. However potential has trade value.

A Minor Leaguer is basically a “bag of balls” type player who fills out a Minor League roster. At best, he will have a “cup of coffee” type of Major League career. Again, there are exceptions. However, a Minor League player has little trade value.

No team is going to give the Braves a lot for Derek Lowe. In fact, because of Lowe’s contract, age, and 2009 season…………the Braves will either eat at least $5 mil a year of Lowe’s contract……..or not trade him at all.

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul Lentz,

What I said was, “It’s a fact that Kelly Johnson was going to be traded OR non tendered.

How is that different from what you said?

• Link
• Report this comment

Jurrjens4NLCY………..What I said was that Kelly was only going to be non-tendered. PERIOD. There was no “option” of Kelly ever being traded because of what he could get awarded in salary arbitration.

Even discussing the possibility of Kelly being traded was a waste of time. You left open the possibility of Kelly being traded in your statement.

Now can you see the difference in our statements?

• Link
• Report this comment

Now can you see the difference in our statements?

The difference is the same as chocolate ice and chocolate ice with chocolate chips, or the difference between a $700 45″ HD TV and a $699.99 45″ HD TV.

• Link
• Report this comment

VaBraveFan……If Lowe had only 1 year left on his contract……..I could see a team willing to pay him more than $10 mil.

However, Lowe is not worth more than $10 mil for the next 3 years. Sure, if Lowe were to rebound in 2010, then that could change. However it is far from a sure thing that 2009 was just an off year for Lowe. That is why his 3 year $45 mil contract is a huge risk.

• Link
• Report this comment

Well, Bobby tried to pump up interest in Johnson at the winter meetings. Gotta love Bobby.

• Link
• Report this comment

Slowhiteguy………It makes perfect sense why Bobby Cox would try to drum up some interest in Kelly Johnson at the Winter Meetings. In theory it is better to get something for a player than by cutting him and getting nothing. However, in reality nothing was going to come of it.

• Link
• Report this comment

hey lentz how much you think the braves will have to eat of lowes contract? inquiring minds need to know

lol

• Link
• Report this comment

I think the Braves shouldnt have to eat no more than 9 mil of Lowes contract. that would make the deal 3 years 36 mil. Also Depending on our return should dictate how much salary we eat. If were getting “Minor League Player” we shouldnt have to eat anything.
Lowe for Swisher makes the most sense to me.

Lowe makes 45 mil (3 yrs) Swisher makes 15 mil (2 yrs) We also throw in 9 mil.

The Yanks wouldnt be adding as much money to the payroll as people think.

• Link
• Report this comment

FEAR, December 20th, 2009, 1:51 pm …”anyone like oingo boingo?”

I was a big fan in the 80s and even got to see them live.

Are Elfman, Bartek, Vatos and the crew still active?

• Link
• Report this comment

Anders > Paul Dentz

• Link
• Report this comment

jurrjens4nlccy-i agree that it would be a package along those lines. Here’s the obvious point that folks don’t grasp. U don’t trade for him unless u get him long term after dealing for him. He fits the braves price range. We don’t have the funds to get a bay or holliday so you take your chances with the young guys and hope fillers to take you to the playoffs next season. Hopefully, lowe and the fillers ie nady will be off the books by next season and then u can go sign a carl crawford and give up zero prospects. At this point, we can’t spend a ton because of derek lowe and previously soriano. Our pitching is so good. We are a stud hitter away from being serious contenders.

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul…I get why he would pump up Kelly. The DBacks are all over him by the way.

• Link
• Report this comment

VaBraveFan………..Your “Lowe + $9 mil to the Yankees for Nick Swisher” proposal does not make much sense for the Braves. If we dumped Lowe and gave the Yankees $9 mil……..then in effect, we’d be paying Nick Swisher $24 mil over the next 2 years. Do you really think that Swisher is worth $12 mil a year? Also, the Braves would not have much money left over to add another bat.

I’d rather see the Braves dump Lowe, eat the $15 mil and sign Matt Holliday. Holliday batting 4th behind Chipper would be MUCH BETTER and have much more of an impact in our line-up than having Swisher bat 7th in our line-up.

• Link
• Report this comment

Get crawford when he becomes a fa next season

• Link
• Report this comment

They can’t afford Holliday at 17M in 2012 when JJ and Escobar will be making close to that.JurrjensNLCY

You’re right that those people will be entering the arbitrarion stage but I don’t think they will be in the $17Million range. Ryan Howard had a monster year (.97OPS, 47 HR and 136 RBI) and Philly went to arbitration and paid him $10 Million. I don’t expect JJ or Escobar to get that much.

• Link
• Report this comment

Lew – Enslaved developed fairly late on the black metal scene, and as far as I know, were never involved with the murders and church burnings. They were much younger than the members of Burzum when that all went down (Enslaved was formed in ‘91 by a 13 and 17 year old). If I had to guess, I’d say they were kids with stars in their eyes – idolizing the local music scene, but only ever on the fringe of association with the early black metal bands.

• Link
• Report this comment

Slowhiteguy………the D-Backs may be “all over” Kelly Johnson. However, get back at me when you find out what they sign him for.

If the D-Backs had traded for Kelly, they would have had to pay him $3.5-$4 mil through arbitration. How much do you think they will end up paying him if they sign him?

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul- I am surprised at you man. Your roster moves include signing Matt Holliday, trading for AGon, and increasing the Braves Payroll. I’d say that the likelihood of any of those events happening is well below 50 percent. The Braves didn’t want to go two years for Cameron why would they go 7 years for Holliday at $18M per. The padres are not likely to trade AGon till mid season. If San Diego was to trade AGon they are asking for Clay B, Jacoby Ellsbury, and more from Boston who could we put together to match that? It would be nice for Liberty Media to increase payroll but it’s not likely to happen and we all know that. So each of your suggestions is unlikely and all of them put together are even less likely.

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul…the reports I hear are one year deal at under 2 M. I am not sticking up for Kelly Johnson, just letting you guys know whats in the papers etc. in Phoenix. I personally think a one year deal at around 1.5M is about right.

• Link
• Report this comment

PL,

It’ll be close to 6 or 7…
Scot Boras is his agent.

• Link
• Report this comment

DOB – just got back in and saw your comment about Shane M, looked more on the web and not only is he touring but he has had his teeth fixed!

• Link
• Report this comment

HAHAHAH PAUL LENTZ!!!

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=paul+lentz&init=quick#/profile.php?id=1623129198&ref=search&sid=1464711758.404855773..1

• Link
• Report this comment

Your “Lowe + $9 mil to the Yankees for Nick Swisher” proposal does not make much sense for the Braves. If we dumped Lowe and gave the Yankees $9 mil……..then in effect, we’d be paying Nick Swisher $24 mil over the next 2 years

Actually, this would mean the Braves traded Lowe, eating $3 million per year of his salary, for an outfield bat. If Swisher is owed 2/$15 million (I’m not sure what Swisher’s contract is, I’m just guessing you were adding that $9 million to his contract), then the Braves would actually be coming out better than what you have predicted they will, since they would have traded Lowe, gotten a major league player back, while eating only $3 million per year of his contract. I think that would be a good deal, and they would still have $5 million left over the first year to put toward another bat

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul Lentz

You make no sense…. First you say were gonna have to eat 15 million and now i’m wrong for eating 9 million…..

3 years at 36 million is alot more attractive to teams. If Lowe was a free agent he would be getting around 12 mil a year.

Adding Nick Swisher who can play Corner outfield and 1b with 20-30 homer power. Swisher makes 6 million in 2010 and 9 million in 2011

We would be getting rid of Lowes contract. while adding a Bat we need and saving some money. Lowe is better than any pitcher in Free Agency and is 2nd best in Trade talks behind Javy Vasquez and in front of Aaron Harang.

• Link
• Report this comment

The Angels would probably demand all the surviving members of the peak-era Clash — not just Paul Simonon but Mick Jones and Topper Headon, too.

What’s that? Ohh, you said Simmon. My bad.DOB

But seriously, what do you think DOB?

• Link
• Report this comment

you asked for it, when it happens dont blame me

• Link
• Report this comment

Slowhiteguy…….your 5:17pm posting will probably be close to right. It just illustrates even more why Kelly had no trade value.

• Link
• Report this comment

Macon Braves (RIP)……….Have I ever called you any names? Have I ever personally attacked you?

• Link
• Report this comment

My point is that I dont believe in “an eye for an eye”. I believe in “coming back at someone twice as hard as they come at me”.PaulLentz

I can certainly understand that. You are easily twice the AH as anyone else.

• Link
• Report this comment

Lincecum’s Arbitration Number: $23 Million Plus?
By Mark Polishuk [November 24, 2009 at 6:58pm CST]
Yahoo’s Tim Brown penned a column today about Tim Lincecum’s likely record-setting arbitration case that included this tidbit from an unnamed baseball executive. Lincecum’s agents and the MLB Players’ Union had discussed the possibility of submitting an arbitration figure of $23MM plus one dollar for the back-to-back Cy Young Award winner. Why the extra dollar? So Lincecum would be making 100 cents more than the highest-paid pitcher in baseball, C.C. Sabathia. The symbolic number would reflect Lincecum’s unprecedented success this early in his career.

As Brown notes, Lincecum and his team would almost certainly lose their case by posting such a high number. Since the Giants’ bid, however, is almost obligated to be in the eight-figure range, it seems guaranteed that Lincecum’s final 2010 salary will exceed the record $10MM arbitration award given to Ryan Howard following his MVP season in 2007.

This could be all moot, of course, if the Giants don’t let Lincecum get to arbitration in the first place. It was previously reported that Lincecum was open to a contract extension in San Francisco, for an amount that would likely top Zach Greinke’s four-year/$38MM deal with the Royals. Brown speculates that a Lincecum extension could be closer to the three-year/$54 million contract that Howard signed with Philadelphia last February.

One almost hopes that Lincecum and the Giants don’t come to terms so we can see, in the words of MLBTR’s Mike Axisa, “the most awesome first year arbitration case in history.”

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/lincecums-arbitration-number-23-million-plus.html

• Link
• Report this comment

I posted on here quite a bit during the season…but have made only a few appearances since the playoffs started…and all I have missed is bickering…. Yaaaaah.

• Link
• Report this comment

Heath……..you missed a bunch of “Kelly Johnson would either be traded or tendered” talk. Also, you’ve missed all the “Derek Lowe for Nick Swisher” trade proposals running all over this blog.

• Link
• Report this comment

i have no idea but what you think jj gets first year arb if he has a similar season to his last 2 this year. dense lentz said 3.5, id guess closer to 10, but i really have no idea Gary

I’d say the first year would be 4-5 mil,he might get a raise to 600-700thou this year so that would still be a 600-800% jump the first year in arb. obviously there is no way to know, and the Braves often try to sign without actually going to arb, so that could affect it too

• Link
• Report this comment

Ohhh Paul

• Link
• Report this comment

Hey Heath. What have you been cooking up lately?

• Link
• Report this comment

ncgary………….Ryan Howard had to have a MONSTER MVP season in order to get awarded $10 mil. While Jair Jurrjens have pitched well….and will hopefully pitch well in 2010……..I dont see him having anywhere to a MONSTER type season that would warrant an arbitration award of $10 mil.

Tim Linecum has won back-to-back Cy Youngs. There is NO WAY that he is going to ask for anywhere close to $23 mil in arbitration. He’ll get somewhere around $10 mil, give or take a few mil.

• Link
• Report this comment

hmmm….guess that didn’t work…

maybe….

• Link
• Report this comment

Heath–You also missed the “Trade Lowe for Milton Bradley” proposal by one of our esteemed collegues…

• Link
• Report this comment

Pretty interesting that a HS kid is more mature than some of the “adults” around the block.

Who me? Or McFann?

• Link
• Report this comment

lol Heath, you’ve been away too long. You’re forgetting your emoticons.

• Link
• Report this comment

Soph -

It’s either that… or you’ve got me discombobulated.

• Link
• Report this comment

No team is going to give the Braves a lot for Derek Lowe. In fact, because of Lowe’s contract, age, and 2009 season…………the Braves will either eat at least $5 mil a year of Lowe’s contract……..or not trade him at all.
/Lentz

—————

That makes 106 times on the $5 million kick.

Paul, many of us are simply mentally exhausted from your continuos harping on the same thing. And your propensity for trying to pick a fight over the slightest thing anyone else writes is really getting tiresome.

Could this be true? Narcissist = Lentz

————–

For the record I think it is entirely possible for the Braves to simply transfer Lowe’s contract to another team without anything else being included. Maybe $1 for some legal purpose or maybe not.

I do agree the Braves will not get a decent player or prospect for Lowe without paying for that prospect or player but I count that money as what the Braves PAY FOR THE PLAYER THEY RECEIVE, not just to get rid of Lowe himself. But to contend that they must give up $5 million in any trade is not reasonable. Look at it this way. If the Braves traded Lowe for Nick Swisher and paid the Yankees $5 million a year the Yankees would be on the hook for $10 million a year for a good starter, a starter whose ground ball pitches would work just fine in Yankee Stadium with that short RF fence.

In the meantime the Braves would be paying the following for Swisher.

2010 $5 million + $6.75 total $11.75
2011 $5 million + $9 mil. total $14 mil
2012 $5 million + $10.25 total $$15.25

Trading for Swisher and giving up maybe $2 million a year would perhaps make sense but anything above that is ridiculous. Even that would put us in a position of Swisher costing the Braves $8.75, $11 and $12.25 during his three years. Even that is a high price for him.

Do you honestly think the Braves are desperate enough to commit that kind of money ($5 million a year) just to work a trade for Nick Swisher for the next three years?

They would be better to put Mitch Jones on first and keep Lowe until someone gets desperate for a starter and that will happen. It always does.

• Link
• Report this comment

Both of youz, Jurrjens!

Grr. McFann is my mortal earthly enemy.

• Link
• Report this comment

no lincecum wont get 23 million , he will sign before arb and probably get 3 years 17 million a season

• Link
• Report this comment

LOL Jurrjens – she’s in GA and you’re up north – hopefully the country is big enough for the both of you.

• Link
• Report this comment

nolie,

Scott Boras. JJ

has a lot less effect in arb than in negotiations. if he asks for too much they lose.

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul Lentz,

How does eating $15 of Lowe’s salary suddenly make Holliday affordable?

Eating salary, not eating salary, how much to eat, all depend on what’s coming back in return, NOT whether or not he’s is trade-able. For reference, check out how much the Cubs had to eat of Bradley’s salary – they didn’t, they got $5M.

P.S. Have you considered the idea that past transgressions might be behind many, if not most of the nastiness coming your way?

• Link
• Report this comment

THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum…………….dude, you may call name calling to be the “slightest thing”…….but I dont.

Also, I would never trade Derek Lowe for Nick Swisher. I do not feel that trading for Swisher and using the savings from Lowe’s contract to sign Xavier Nady (who is coming off an injury) will do much to solve our offensive woes. We still would lack a legitimate home run hitter in our line-up.

• Link
• Report this comment

tr…………those past transgressions that you spoke of were provoked by others. Did I go overboard at times? Perhaps. However, I just didnt “go there” without being provoked.

Besides, I have tried the “turn the other cheek approach”. I once went three weeks during the season without biting on the name calling…….and a number of people on here still wouldnt let up with the personal attacks.

So I gave up trying to appease the morons on here and just go with what I know.

• Link
• Report this comment