2:25 am December 14, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 14th, 20095:57 pm
Maybe you didn’t get that memo, but barring a failed physical, Lowell and it is “Lowell” is going to Texas for former Braves ’spect Max Ramirez…
And if he can’t pass physical he wouldn’t pass it in Atlanta either…
December 14th, 20095:58 pm
Lowe isn\’t going anywhere folks. He will be a Brave next season and we will finish 4th. — Nick
We’ll never make it, Gulliver. We’re all doomed. Doomed!
Robert (Chipper Is The Best0
December 14th, 20096:00 pm
If Mike Lowell goes anywher it’ll be to the Rangers.
Do you like Old Man by Neil Young?
December 14th, 20096:01 pm
DOB, Ahhh, Glum…. I get it.
I am known by no other name…I think a Randall Delgado, or someone of that ilk not named Teheran, could be considered…I think that is as realistic as us trading for Milton Bradley…
December 14th, 20096:02 pm
Paul Lentz- “I thought about a number of these scenarios (and others). I just dont see the Braves being able to trade Lowe UNLESS they eat a SIGNIFICANT part of Lowe’s contract.”
The contracts that I mentioned wern’t intended to be what the Braves would do just some senerios to think about. The point was that their were more bad contracts out there than just Bradleys that you would have to watch out for. Lets go with the Angels Juan Rivera example as to how prospects could be subsituted for actual money to make the deal work:
Lowe (salary relief of $3M per)
If this senerio were to happen you premise would be right in that the Braves would have to eat more than $3M a year to trade Lowe but you would loss your bet due to other factors you could not control. Im just trying to look out man. I really hope I don’t get a million thats not a fair trade comments after this one because that was not the intent of that post.
Bay Area Steve…………..I accept your bet. I agree to not post under any assumed names if I lose the bet.
By the way, Random is a “shyster”. He tried to insert hidden clauses into the bet we talked about a couple of months ago. In the original posting, I said that since Kelly Johnson was eligible was salary arbitration, that there was NO WAY that he would agree to a contract with the Braves that pays him less than $3 mil, given the way arbitration works. While many on here were talking about Kelly accepting the 20% max pay cut because of his off year……..I said that they were crazy to think that it would happen.
Random tried to add all kinds of stipulations and exceptions. I agreed to a couple of them. Then after we agreed to the bet, he said that if the Braves were to cut Kelly and then sign him to a contract less than $3 mil……..that I would lose the bet.
Now please explain to me how in the hell does that “stipulation” counter my original bet of Kelly not being awarded less than $3 mil through salary arbitration? The whole point of my bet was to counter Kelly being able to sign for less than $3 mil because of how the arbitration process works.
Random try the shyster route and I shot it down. When he tried to do that, I called off the bet. I dont do business with shysters.
December 14th, 20096:03 pm
And if he can’t pass physical he wouldn’t pass it in Atlanta either… P-Town Brave
P-Town Bravo, follow along here. I was responding to the 5:49 p.m. post. Or maybe you didn’t get that memo? (Besides, who actually gets memos anymore? It’s almost 2010.)
Oh, and regarding physicals. Ask the Dolphins about the physical that Drew Brees failed with their doctor, before he went to the Saints instead. (That memo was widely distributed, by the way.)
December 14th, 20096:04 pm
ugaaccountant…….the Braves would be fools to trade for Gary Matthews, Jr. He had one good year. He’s been pretty average, at best, in his other years.
December 14th, 20096:05 pm
I still think the Mariners could be in on Lowe. They have alot of money to spend this offseason.
December 14th, 20096:06 pm
Fan describing the Dexter season ending episode KL
I’m hoping he killed his needy wife Rita. I’m tired of her
Bravers Lifer: There’s almost no scenario under which Braves would trade Julio Teheran at this point. And certainly not in a Lowe salary-dump trade. Next proposal.
If the Braves get Rivera, I’d make him play 1B, and callup Heyward to play RF.
December 14th, 20096:07 pm
December 14th, 2009
Wow, can I say once again how sick I am of the phrases:
“Bill James projected him at ______ for 2010″
“So FanGraphs said ____________ ”
If everyone listened to that place, both Francoeur and Kelly would still be playing and starting in Atlanta and Blaine Boyer would be our freakin closer!
Please tell us if there is a more reputable projection for 2010 stats that is currently available?
Please tell us the valuation site better than fangraphs we should be quoting?
No statistic or site is perfect, but these are two sites that are readily available. I understand you don’t like reading their information, but many other people on here will tell you to eat **** and die if you don’t at least quote something when you state your opinion.
Thank you Phillies
Just opened up the market for Lowe!
December 14th, 20096:08 pm
Lentz: Gary Matthews has been far, far below average the past two seasons. Dude’s hit under .250 while averaging six homers and 48 RBIs in that span, with OPS totals of .675 and .697. Horrid.
Bay Area Steve
Anybody know what I bet?
December 14th, 20096:09 pm
Braves Lifer, in that scenario the Braves just got raped, and Wren would be thrown of 50th floor.
“If the Braves get Rivera, I’d make him play 1B, and callup Heyward to play RF.” – Tomas,
Who plays LF? Plus can Rivera play 1st?
December 14th, 20096:10 pm
Apparently people think that anyone can play 1B.
DOB was just giving Paul an idea as to how we could trade Lowe and not eat over $3M per. I even said I was not trying to post a fair trade merely just posting a senerio in which he would be correct but still lose his bet.
What page was that on? Pagination sucks. Better, I suppose, than the two-day load time we used to have, but it sucks.
December 14th, 20096:11 pm
Rivera played one game at 1b, that should make him a gold glover on here.
Braves Lifer: Got it. My bad.
Tomas-”Braves Lifer, in that scenario the Braves just got raped, and Wren would be thrown of 50th floor.”
You are a retarded monkey. Read the whole post before you do retarded monkey things. Please.
David O’Brien………your 6:06pm posting about Julio Teheran not being included in any Lowe dump contract trade is the kind of common sense that simply does not prevail on this thread.
“mid-level” prospect? What is a “mid level” prospect? I tell you what a “mid level” prospect is: It’s a BUM packaged to look like it has potential. The Angels are not going to go for that.
For the Braves to possibly get out of having to eat a significant part of Lowe’s contract….they would HAVE to include a Heyward, Freeman, or Teheran, which isnt going to happen.
December 14th, 20096:13 pm
Right, but i’m saying the same thing “Braves Lifer” is saying. There are dozens of bad contracts out there, not just Milton Bradley. Further “Braves Lifer” is also correct that we could easily add prospects to a trade of Lowe instead of money to make the other team accept.
I’ll take his example to a ridiculous extreme to prove “Braves Lifer’s” point:
No cash is exchanged
I would never watch the Braves again if that trade happened, and you wouldn’t be able to post again until the all-star break. There are literaly infinite possibilities of trades that could have you lose this bet.
DOB- You are good. I love your blogs. I think I have developed a bad habit because I am on here during work and when I wake up in the morning. This is crazy man I think I might have withdrawls if they were to stop.
The market for Lowe is gonna get a boom now. Wolf, Lackey, and Halladay are no longer possibilities.
What do you think of the Braves going after Troy Glaus, if they find that he’s healthy again?
But I think you’re right about the humidor getting Colorado back to a more normal situation UgaAcct
it brought it back some in homers, but all other offensive metrics are still way higher than most. It always rates in the top 5-6 offensive parks still. and Atkins can’t hit worth a hoot away from there
K with a K
December 14th, 20096:14 pm
I would like to see a Lowe for Rivera trade and for the Braves to sign Atkins and Troy Glaus
Just noticed this in Buster’s blog today:
Katie Sharp of ESPN Stats & Information offered up this note on Kelly Johnson, whom the Braves didn’t tender a contract, as David O’Brien writes: Johnson had the lowest batting average of a left-handed batter versus a right-handed pitcher last season (minimum 200 plate appearances against a right-handed pitcher).
Lowest BA by LHB vs. RHP 2009 MLB season, min. 200 plate appearances
Name Batting Average
Kelly Johnson .188
Jason Giambi .196
Ken Griffey Jr. .215
Ramon Vazquez .220
Mitch Maier .224
December 14th, 20096:15 pm
“But, nathan, the Braves didn’t turn around and trade Tom Glavine after signing Maddux, LOL. That makes it a little different, no?” scoots
You’re right. But they did let Leibrandt go. Who, like it or not, went 30-20 with a 3.43 ERA and 422 IP in 91-92. Along with going 9-11 and a 3.16 ERA in 1990 (where I’m guessing Smoltz, Glavine and Avery would tell you he was quite the mentor).
Now, That being said. Maddux went 36-16 in 93-94 (strike shortened year). But he had an ERA of 2.02 in 467 IP. 45 more innings in 8 less starts than Leibrandt.
But as I said. Had Glavine not been the 91 Cy young, and along with Smoltz and Avery being so good and so young, more people would have talked about how good Charlie Leibrandt was for those two teams. Leibrandt was actually better than Smoltz in 91’s regular season. Too many people remember two moments in games 6 and 7 of the 91 WS.
Leibrandt’s HR to Puckett. And Smoltz’s classic game 7 with Morris. Take away those two moments, and Leibrandt would be remembered better as a Brave.
And he was almost better statistically than Avery in 92.
December 14th, 20096:16 pm
ugaaccountant………sure there are an “infinite” number of trade possibilities that could make me lose the bet.
However “possible” and “realistic” are two different things. I look at realistic trade possibilities, not some pipe dream possible trade proposal posted by some illogical MORON.
December 14th, 20096:17 pm
DOB now that the phils have reportedly traded one of their left handed aces for a right handed ace will it effect how the braves go after a hitter bc if im not mistaken didnt they prefer a righty over a lefty?
anyone who is listening to the FW interview w/ Shanks on 1680
who the devil listens to that idiotic super-prospecthugger? Bah.
December 14th, 20096:18 pm
He just looks kinda bored…but he’s real “low-key”, I think.
December 14th, 20096:19 pm
sidslidkid, Matt Diaz….He hit 313AVG, 13HR, 58 RBI’s 390OBP, and a 488SLG% a 878OPS
Juan Rivera had an 810 OPS.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 14th, 20096:20 pm
Dob guess i have not been paying attention close enough… if and when the lacky deal and the lee/halliday trades are pulled of what other pitchers are looking for a job and what teams could be looking. where does lowe rank in terms of “available” pitchers on the trade block/ open marker as of right now?
December 14th, 20096:21 pm
Update: “5:00pm: ESPN’s Jayson Stark heard this deal is close but not done. He says Halladay’s extension would be just three years and $60MM (starting in 2011), with possible vesting options for another year or two. Aside from Aumont, Stark says the Jays would get Phils catching prospect Travis D’Arnaud. The Blue Jays have been asking for Phils outfield prospect Domonic Brown but have been offered Taylor. The Mariners would also give an additional prospect.”
December 14th, 20096:22 pm
I think the Blue Jays got a great deal, they got some big-time prospects in return.
December 14th, 20096:23 pm
ESPN reports Halliday working on 3 yrs ext 70 million plus 4th year buy out. That’s 23 million…Lowe is cheap compared to that and what Lackey is going to get.
No reason for Braves to EAT anything in my looking. Let Angels are who ever pay up. Maybe this will break the log jam and Wren can move on to fix Braves. Still some good players to be had.
December 14th, 20096:25 pm
UGAaccountant: Humidor greatly reduced the number of homers, but it’s still one of the three or four most hitter-friendly parks in baseball because of the huge outfield. A hitter with even a modicum of speed can pile up extra-base hits there, so much space to hit balls.
Atkins has a career .327 average and .892 OPS at Coors, .252/.735 on the road.
And as noted last night, his OPS has been in steady free-fall for four seasons, along with his homers, RBI and batting average.
In 2006, he hit .329 with 29 homers, 120 RBI and a .965 OPS.
Since then, he’s hit .301-25-111-.853 in 2007, .286-21-99-.780 in 2008, and .226-9-48-.650 in 2009.
That’s a decline in every stat, every season. So why should anyone expect a trend reversal?
Thanks. And, I saw your post. I shouldn’t use words like hate, and despise, and I certainly shouldn’t want to inflict harm upon my fellow man. I forget how powerful words are.
But, I don’t have your faith. And, if I were alone in a room with that man, and even when I’m anonymous on a blog, my morals (and I realize this is wrong) allow… stuff. Stuff that yours, and more respectable folks’ don’t. I’m sorry you, and others, have to see it. I should be able to scroll on by. But, someone posted the other day calling him a train wreck. Dude was right; I can’t look away.
Bravo fan from Chitown
Thanks DOB. Missed a few blogs during the winter meetings (sorry, i don’t post often). Do you think Mike Lowell would fit what Wren is trying to do, or is free agent signings our only option?
December 14th, 20096:26 pm
Paul Lentz – thank you for your insight to this situation. With all the crazy trades and free agent singings people are throwing out there I am glad that YOUR scenarios are here to bring us back down to earth. Get over yourself man, you know as much as everybody else who post on this board, other than the man writing the article, which is what you see other people write.
December 14th, 20096:27 pm
low key = unentertaining
“ESPN’s Jayson Stark heard this deal is close but not done. He says Halladay’s extension would be just three years and $60MM ” – Braves Lifer
“ESPN reports Halliday working on 3 yrs ext 70 million plus 4th year buy out.” – o-me
ESPN needs to stick to one number. Thats a big difference.
Bravo Lowell is currently about to be traded to the Texas Rangers
Bay Area Steve……..is our bet, official?
Justin, it’s one pitcher on one team. Why would that affect the Braves’ preference for a righty hitter?
December 14th, 20096:28 pm
From ESPN insider just in case any of you all want to know the breakdown of the Halladay deal.
Author: Jayson Stark
“As part of the deal, Halladay would agree to a three-year extension through 2013, with a vesting option that could lengthen the deal by another year or two, one source said. The extension is expected to guarantee Halladay in the neighborhood of $60 million, plus the $15.75 million he would make in 2010, the final year of his current contract.
According to a source who spoke with two teams involved in the trade, Toronto would get highly regarded Mariners pitching prospect Phillippe Aumont, Phillies catching prospect Travis d’Arnaud and another Phillies prospect in exchange for Halladay. Indications are that the Phillies have balked at Toronto’s repeated requests for outfielder Domonic Brown, and the Phillies are offering highly touted outfielder Michael Taylor instead.
Seattle would send two additional prospects to Philadelphia in exchange for Lee, who is a year away from free agency.
As of late Monday afternoon, the extension had not been agreed upon. And the Blue Jays and Phillies were still haggling over the final prospect. In addition, Phillies doctors would have to sign off on Halladay’s physical.”
December 14th, 20096:29 pm
December 14th, 20096:30 pm
I’ll take the opposing side of the bet, if you want
December 14th, 20096:31 pm
“We’ll never make it, Gulliver. We’re all doomed. Doomed! DOB
Come on Dave. I thought I was the “special” blogger whom that line was reserved for? Sad day for my pessimisity (I think I just made up a new word), when I’m moving up the optimism ladder, huh?
Just asking DOB and thanks for responding. I just thought with Hamels Lee and Santana in division the braves wanted a righty so when Lee was moved it made just a little bit of sense to open it up a little bit with so few plausable options.
Here is what everyone is forgeting the Braves are much improved from the start of last season right now. They did not make the playoffs for one reason only last year – the offense from April – June. From July on the Braves scored more runs than anyone in the NL including the Phils.
Lets take a look.
Schafer – McLouth 2010
KJ – Infante 2010 – Can argue after seeing KJs first half.
Chipper – Chipper – Push
Mac – Mac – Push
Escobar – Escobar – Push
Anderson – Diaz 2010
Kotchman – Prado 2010 – Kotchman has never had an OPS over .800
Francouer – Heyward 2010 – Cmon could Heyward be worse?
Rotation – If Lowe gets traded you replace Lowe with Huddy and Reyes/Medlin with Hanson.
I have us with a slight improvement offensively in 5 position and a push in 4 positions. The rotation is better and the bullpen is atleast a push or better.
So lets look at it. If Wren did NOTHING we would have traded Laroche for Infante and Loaf for Heyward from the line up that ended the season hot. That could end up being a pretty close trade when you look at Loafs .705 OPS.
From the beginning of the year the current line up would be much better than the one that started last season. Now if he adds 40 Hr and 160 rbi to our current roster with our pitching I think we will be in the playoffs.
December 14th, 20096:32 pm
Big day in hot stove season.
K with a K…….I base my assessments on observations over the years as a baseball fan.
Again, if I’m wrong, I’ll refrain from posting on here until the All-Star Break.
If Bay Area Steffi accepts my bet, then either he will be a true welcher (unlike Random AKA “shyster”, I wont be pulling any “techs” or inserting any hidden clauses)……..or I wont have to see his sorry A$$ on here until the All-Star Break.
Either way, I come out a winner because I know that I’m not going to lose this bet.
We mentioned a Lowe-for-Lowe trade idea here during Winter Meetings.
A Lowe-for-Lowe trade?!?!? Wow. That’d be one for the books. Maybe Wren could get the Braves, who would receive Lowe, to pick up some one Lowe’s salary, in exchange for sending Lowe over…aahhhh!! It’s too much!
Oh, and Jason Heyward will OWN Roy Halladay.
December 14th, 20096:33 pm
Mike Cameron in serious talks with Red Sox on two-year deal.
Jurrjens4NLCY……….I dont have much of a problem with you. I want Bay Area Steffi to officially accept the bet. I already said I’ll do the bet with him.
I’m sure you still look pretty good babe
December 14th, 20096:34 pm
Well D.O.B, with Lackey signing and Halliday being traded is Derek Lowe the now Best “Available” Pitcher?
We got a “Shyster” at 6:32!
December 14th, 20096:35 pm
I dont have much of a problem with you
You hear the news about Schafer?
"Chef" Tim Dix
Probably been said earlier but a fact that cannot be overstated:
Pretenders are never a bad call.
BAS, you are one of the best on the blog,brother. I didn’t say I don’t like to have fun, I absolutely love your humor. I give you one of these because I know you love them. P.S You lose this bet and I will kill you.
Nolie – Did you know “Dexter” is married to “Debra Morgan” in real life? I thought he was gay he played the Undertaker so well is Six Feet Under
December 14th, 20096:36 pm
IMO we got real lucky in the Halladay trade. Orginially the Phillies “attempted to (clear payroll space) by trading away Joe Blanton, but found they couldn’t get enough back to enable them to make a Halladay deal.” Imagine if they could have done that. Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Haap without having to give up Kyle Drabek. That would have been unbeatable. Thank goodness they couldn’t pull it off.
John Kruk happy B-day.
Stark did say 60 million at 6;30pm but the writing under picture said 70 million one time …who the hell knows but that’s not peanuts. I’m not worried about Phillies we can handle them just changing pitcher.
December 14th, 20096:37 pm
Why wouldn’t the Phillies want to keep BOTH Halliday and Cliff Lee?
Just kid-din, gRHRl.
Hey Hannibal, I see that you’ve missed me.
December 14th, 20096:39 pm
DOB — You’ve said a couple of times over the past week that Lackey and Halladay are no. 1 and 2 on the Angels list for starting pitcher options, and Lowe could possibly be as high as no. 3. Given the Halladay and Lackey situation, does this give the Braves leverage? Now that those two pitchers are gone, does it not seem that the Angels would now have to give up something of some value to acquire Lowe, and even if it’s not Juan Rivera, then something more than just prospects?
If Rivera could be had by kicking in more money for Lowe’s contract instead of giving away players…would be fine by me. Though, if we were to get Rivera, there would be no reason to keep Schafer….would have Rivera in LF, McLouth in CF and Heyward in RF with Diaz on the bench as our 4th OF.
December 14th, 20096:41 pm
This is a great trade for the Pihllies, and Im going to go out on a limb and say that Halladay shutsdown the Braves next year
I take it this is your first limb outing. Be careful.
sissylipkid…………..We got a “sissy” at 6:34!
Red Sox really focusing on run prevention this offseason
December 14th, 20096:42 pm
DOB, have you ever seen “The League” on FX. It is on after Always Sunny. It’s hilarious, you should check it out if you haven’t
YAY!!! Paul Lentz gave me a nickname! I’m a regular now! Finally I’m a somebody!
I mean if it ment to trade anybody not named Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, or Ryan Howard I’d do it to have both Cliff Lee and Halliday.
Well I guess since Boston is really interested in Cameron they are going to let Bay walk. They’ll probably sign Beltre if they get Lowell moved.
December 14th, 20096:43 pm
“sissylipkid…………..We got a “sissy” at 6:34!”
December 14th, 20096:44 pm
Once these other deals are made official, Wren will be in perfect position to trade Lowe for maximum value. Not saying we will get a good, much less great, player back in return. Just won’t have to eat as much, if any, salary depending on the other players involved.
December 14th, 20096:46 pm
DOB- Any chance Braves could bring Vlad in at say 5 mill? His numbers were better than a lot of Braves and he is a right hander.
I dont know that the deals really improve our leverage that much. You can now basically cross two teams off that needed a front line starter. Basically now the Angels are the only ones who can afford Lowe except for maybe a bad contract for bad contract swap with the Cubs.
It may increase it some depending on how desperate the Angels really are. There are still some decent pitchers available.
Idk why people our complaining about Juan Rivera, he’s a great fit. And would probably lead our team in HRs
December 14th, 20096:47 pm
I believe it was Yahoo.com where I read “O” were interested in Lowe. Anything to that anyone.
Well you guys can cross Mike Cameron off your wishlist. I guess were down to Nady or Byrd (both suck). Fire Wren.
December 14th, 20096:48 pm
Do you even follow the Braves??… Trade Lowe and sign Bay
LOL! Oohhh man that’s good stuff.
December 14th, 20096:49 pm
Did you know “Dexter” is married to “Debra Morgan” in real life? I thought he was gay he played the Undertaker so well is Six Feet Under KL
yeah I’ve known that for a few years. I liked 6Ft Under a good bit.
I don’t understand how Nady sucks. Someone explain that to me. In ‘08 he had around 25 HR and an avg. around .300. I just don’t understand how he sucks.
December 14th, 20096:50 pm
hay DOB what about J,Gomes for the braves.good power &good def. should be cheap.
civilized white trash
IF bay and holliday just happen to fall into our lap it will be a good farewell for bobby c
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