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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
5,207 comments Add your comment
HomeofdaBrave
December 14th, 2009
2:06 pm
Okay, I understand that players like Gomes, Cust, Bryd, Cameron, and Atkins are the “realistic” choices for the Braves, but what I don’t get is why people are actually excited about the thought of either of them playing for this team. Seriously, seeing claims that the likes of Jack Cust or Jhonny Gomes/Garret Atkins are on their “wishlist” just boggles my mind. I guess the Braves finishing in 3rd/4th place next year is also on there.
Since we’re being realistic, that’s most likely what’s going to happen. The Braves sure as hell aren’t competing with the Phillies or the Mets (yep, I said it) next year if that’s the best Wren can come up with.
CB
December 14th, 2009
2:10 pm
Explicit,thanks for your prejudiced, redneck opinions.
Daslied
December 14th, 2009
2:11 pm
Explicit -
Signing Lowe was not a mistake. At the end of the day, Atlanta has a guy that won 15 games for $15MM. Struggles be damned, that’s a solid return on their investment. Who knew how well Vazquez, Hanson and Jurrjens would pitch?
Perhaps Frank Wren is a year ahead of everyone else. Perhaps he saw that the 2010 FA pitching class was pretty weak, and knew he’d have a pretty desirable commodity.
One last thing – Kawakami was actually good last year. Maybe if you learned his name you could read about that.
18 Wheels of Love
December 14th, 2009
2:11 pm
I wonder what is an acceptable amount of time to pass before Wren calls LAA?
Random
December 14th, 2009
2:12 pm
ugaaccountant (December 14th, 2009 1:46 pm): “Let’s say you have a guy who has a slash of .300/.400/.900 vs. righties”
Slash stats, by general convention, are either AVG/OBP/SLG, or AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS.
You seem to be using AVG?/OBP or SLG?/OPS? — you should probably clarify (and perhaps think about using the same notations as everyone else in MLB).
abwright
December 14th, 2009
2:17 pm
McFann O, December 14th, 2009, 1:57 pm … “Gyah, mann! Why, uh…w-w…um…dangit! What’s that cursed cliché I’m looking for??”
How about one of these …
When you meet a stranger, keep your money in your shoes.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.
Well, if you don’t know, I’m not going to keep trying to guess.
BTW, props on the accented e.
abwright
December 14th, 2009
2:19 pm
Random, December 14th, 2009, 12:55 pm … “Howzabout Hideki Matsui”
Are you sure he can still hit the ball?
stamper
December 14th, 2009
2:20 pm
The question as to whether who to trade Lowe or Vazquez is pointless. As far as I see it, they’re both on their way out. Lowe this winter. Vazquez next winter.
Our 2011 rotation is shaping up like this…
Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson, Kawakami and Minor
And that’s not too shabby, either!
We’re going to dump Lowe’s contract this winter. We’re then going to get draft picks for Vazquez at the end of 2010, when we offer him arbitration, which he will most certainly decline… as he’ll be the premier pitcher on the market and stands to make serious bank – especially is Halladay gets dealt this winter.
DAP
December 14th, 2009
2:21 pm
random, ugaaccountant did specify what his slash lines meant, a little further down from his original post.
TennesseePaul
December 14th, 2009
2:21 pm
you should probably clarify
Well I’d certainly take a guy that slugs .900 with a .400 OBP. And if a platoon can be made with two guys producing, this even better. But I would think that avg and obp would be higher if the guy is slugging .900… I’d also wonder why the guys couldn’t hit the other handed pitchers when they seem to feast on one set of them.
ugaaccountant
December 14th, 2009
2:22 pm
UGA-
So what you’re saying is that you wouldn’t mind having a Cust/Garko platoon? I myself don’t care what anyone says, I still want Atkins.
.300, .400, .900 but that’s about what we need from our 1st baseman. Adam Laroche’s playing out of his mind for us was only a little better than that (.325, .401, .957) and we all know even he hasn’t ever produced that well for an entire season. But the only portion of the year that Atlanta was a true playoff level club was while he was in the lineup producing those numbers. We need someone like that, and since we only have 1b or LF unfilled, we’ve got to at least get close to that production for 1 of the spots to be a playoff team.
Cust – Would bat against RH’s and is way too low on AVG and OBP, although his slugging would be on track.
Garko – Would bat against LH’s and is on track AVG and OBP, too low on Slugging.
Atkins – As the portion against LH’s looks good. His terrible 2009 and career spent in Colorado scare me, but his career numbers are strong.
So I can understand the thought process of the platoon. It’s not all that bad and if both are healthy and available all season and Bobby uses them as a strict platoon would project out to a decent 1b, but not a .300, .400, .900 guy. I just stand by my statement earlier that it would still be in the bottom 5 of all MLB 1st basemen.
And random, your opinion of me doesn’t bother me one bit. LOOGY is a silly term that has no real significance in my life. I care about whether a pitcher can fill a role on the team, whether or not he’s left handed or right handed. Have fun with your super fan language, I don’t care.
ncscoots
December 14th, 2009
2:23 pm
How about one of these …
When you meet a stranger, keep your money in your shoes.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.
Nah. When dealing with FAs, their agents, and similar outlaw scum, the cliche is:
“First the smiles, then the lies. Last comes the gunfire.”
idfan
December 14th, 2009
2:24 pm
anybody notice all the free agent starting pitchers available for next year. That will be a crazy offseason.
DAP
December 14th, 2009
2:25 pm
actally, it was RC’s post originally, followed up by this “the slash’s i was using were avg/obp/ops….just in case anyone was wondering”
DAP
December 14th, 2009
2:26 pm
dont forget, people…cust does not play 1B. he wont be able to platoon for us there.
stamper
December 14th, 2009
2:27 pm
yeah, there are a lot of them:
Cliff Lee, Javy Vazquez, Beckett, Bonderman, Brandon Webb, Halladay, to name a few
DAP
December 14th, 2009
2:28 pm
but, a jack cust, jonny gomes platoon for LF would be pretty potent.
abwright
December 14th, 2009
2:29 pm
ncscoots, December 14th, 2009, 2:23 pm … ““First the smiles, then the lies. Last comes the gunfire.”
I have to say, my Mom did not teach me that one!
Magnum TA
December 14th, 2009
2:31 pm
DOB any new news about who will call the Braves games on TV this year?
Thanks.
CB
December 14th, 2009
2:31 pm
DAP, when does never played the position stop anybody on this blog? I want some Micah Owings in LF.
Random
December 14th, 2009
2:33 pm
Explicit (December 14th, 2009 2:02 pm) –
You are confused.
And an ass.
ugaaccountant
December 14th, 2009
2:33 pm
Sorry about the avg/obp/ops. I just blindly quoted someone, apparently RC, and started using it because I easily understand that .900 refers to an OPS. Plus why would the convention be to put avg/obp/slg/ops? Do we assume the reader can’t do 1st grade math?
Again, if you don’t like me Random, I don’t care. You’ve been on a warpath against me about LOOGy’s, when the fact remains that Chavez can dominate left handed batters, such as what we’ll face against the phillies. That’s all that will matter in the team winning or losing, not what hand he pitches with.
N8
December 14th, 2009
2:34 pm
“The problem with this is Vazquez lowers the “trading pool” as he has a no-trade clause block all teams out west… That includes two teams which were aiming for Lackey: Angels and Mariners.” T-Paul
Yes and No. While Vazquez has a limited no-trade clause, thus eliminating west coast teams. He only has one year left on his deal, and is coming off of a Cy Young caliber season.
Lowe technically can be traded anywhere since he doesn’t have a no trade clause. But can he really be traded anywhere? Only a handful of teams can take on a 38 year old guy with 3 years 45 million remaining. MANY teams (even lower market teams) may be willing to gamble on one year.
So, from that angle, there might be MORE possible trade partners for Vazquez than with Lowe. Hard to say. But it’s one way of analyzing it.
McFann O
December 14th, 2009
2:35 pm
abwright–
Haha, thanks for trying, anyway. Maybe there isn’t one for that situation after all…
BTW, props on the accented e.
Thanks! I was pretty proud of it…
pryguy
December 14th, 2009
2:36 pm
DOB,
Has Vlad Guerrero been mentioned at all from the Braves people? It’s being reported Matsui is in serious discussions with the Angels, which would mean Vlad is most likely not to return there. What are your thoughts on his availability/prospect of becoming a part of the Braves?
ugaaccountant
December 14th, 2009
2:37 pm
A left field platoon wouldn’t be so bad. They only have to replace Anderson’s production. The biggest drawback is it takes up two roster spots, and we have Schafer and Heyward who have a good chance of showing up in spring training beating down the door for a spot. Plus if Heyward is our everyday RF, Diaz is also going to want at least a platoon spot.
chip off the ol block
December 14th, 2009
2:37 pm
i’ll pass on Vlad, it would be G. Anderson part two
TommyP
December 14th, 2009
2:40 pm
Anyone agree the Braves will wait ’til Bay and Holliday find a home before moving forward on the bats???
Erik
December 14th, 2009
2:40 pm
Its unfortunate when an erik tarnishes the name especially when its spelled with a K. Sorry for his remarks although I sadly arrived after they had been removed.
Good article but still a sad day. I really thought KJ was going to have a breakout year last year especially after he had that HOT start.
It is interesting to see where all the prospects went and who we got for them.
Marte got us 2 years of Renty and then JJ and Gorkys(who then was turned around as the centerpiece for Mclouth)
Probably one of the best trades of JS’s tenure.
Devine got us Kotsay which left us on the losing end of that one. All we got out of it was the pleasure of someone hitting for the cycle.
Betemit got us Aybar and Baez… another losing trade although Betemit never continued his progression after leaving the Braves.
Roman Colon got us Farnsworth… who gave up the most heartbreaking HR I have ever and possibly will ever see. A 2 out 2 strike bottom of the 9th HR to Brad Asmus in game 4 of the NLDS. Asmus had about 4 HRs all season long and Farnsworth gave him one to dead center. That capped a 6 run comeback by Stros before they went on to beat us in extras.
Frenchy for Church…. I HOPE WE LOSE THIS TRADE BADLY. I really want Jeff to succeed and he just needed a change of scenery. Maybe some day after he gets confidence again he can comeback.
Boyer for Barton… kind of a wash.
Thats all I got. Anyone else want to add to the list?
18 Wheels of Love
December 14th, 2009
2:41 pm
Why do we need to wait on Vlad and Bay? Isn’t their market in a different stratosphere?
Brian
December 14th, 2009
2:43 pm
Sort of interesting, from ESPN.com’s Rob Neyer, the 100 best players of the 2000’s:
1. Albert Pujols
2. A-Rod
3. Barry Bonds
7. Chipper Jones
20. Andruw Jones
22. J.D. Drew
29. Javier Vazquez
31. Tim Hudson
34. Gary Sheffield
43. Mark Teixeira
60. Rafael Furcal
64. Derek Lowe
73. Greg Maddux
74. Edgar Renteria
81. Tom Glavine
TommyP
December 14th, 2009
2:43 pm
Said Bay and Holliday.
ugaaccountant
December 14th, 2009
2:45 pm
Pryguy – In 2009, Vlad’s avg. was .295, but his OBP was only in the .334 with an OPS of .794. Vlad was 34 last year and missed some time to injury. This production is a big drop vs. his other recent seasons.
I compared that with 2008 Garett Anderson (when he was with the angels and was 35/36). Garett hit .293, OBP .325 and OPS of .758 that year.
My conclusion, if you sign Vlad today you are signing someone awfully similar to Garett Anderson last year. Granted a little better, but not by much.
Rob in pain from (SC)
December 14th, 2009
2:45 pm
It breaks my heart to see Vladimir Guerrero run. That turf in Montreal ruined his career.
abwright
December 14th, 2009
2:46 pm
ugaaccountant, December 14th, 2009, 2:33 pm … “Do we assume the reader can’t do 1st grade math?”
Yes. And now, adding OBP + SLG to get OPS is considered 3rd grade math. No child left behind, don’t ya know.
RC
December 14th, 2009
2:46 pm
Matsui is no longer an option (not that he ever was). $6.5 million w/ the Angels.
18 Wheels of Love
December 14th, 2009
2:46 pm
Meant Bay and Holliday. Vlad? What was I thinking….or not.
Redstick19
December 14th, 2009
2:46 pm
The Braves have been awfully quiet/mum on who they are interested in on the offensive front. Is that perhaps because they already know exactly who they will get? I have a suspicion that Wren has a deal already worked out for our hitter, and is simply waiting to dump Lowe’s salary to the first team that blinks and offers to take on all of Lowe’s salary. Then, Wren would have 15 million to give to a Bay (or maybe combine other savings to push for Holiday), or perhaps he has a trade worked out with a team for a hitter whom we would have never seen coming. Just got a feeling that something big will happen almost immediately following Lowe’s departure.
Random
December 14th, 2009
2:46 pm
Previously, from ugaaccountant:
” ‘LOOGY’ has to do with a relief pitcher coming in to retire one batter. But i’m not sure if the pitcher is left handed or the batter is left handed.
“So it’s unusual then that Chavez is so dominant against LH batters even though he’s RH pitcher? Can we come up with a fun name for that?”
And now:
ugaaccountant (December 14th, 2009 2:22 pm): “your opinion of me doesn’t bother me one bit. LOOGY is a silly term that has no real significance in my life. I care about whether a pitcher can fill a role on the team, whether or not he’s left handed or right handed. Have fun with your super fan language, I don’t care.”
Oh, it ain’t a mere matter of knowing the silly terminology or not, little igmo, but your comments indicate that you don’t even know what a platoon advantage is.
And that, pumpkin, is a basic factor in not only constructing a line-up and making late game substitutions but also in putting together and utilizing a bullpen (”whether a pitcher can fill a role on the team”).
But go ahead on and continue to blow as hard as you want to here — your opinions and judgments just won’t be taken seriously if you don’t know the basics of the game.
Will they?
Kelly Johnson gets the boot from the Braves – Snap Shots - GoUpstate - Spartanburg, SC - Archive
December 14th, 2009
2:47 pm
[...] David O’Brien on the “Baby Braves” Share and Enjoy: [...]
sidslidkid
December 14th, 2009
2:47 pm
“My conclusion, if you sign Vlad today you are signing someone awfully similar to Garett Anderson last year. Granted a little better, but not by much.” – ugaaccountant
Not to mention Vlad will have a price tag 5 times more expensive than Garett’s.
TennesseePaul
December 14th, 2009
2:48 pm
N8: Well the premise included the Braves kicking in the money to basically make the average annual about the same for the two players. So I’d still say Vazquez’s trading pool is reduced. 9 teams are pretty much off the table with Vazquez, where as with Lowe you have three years at what would then be “affordable” rates… rates that put him in the Randy Wolf area of cost. And then you must ask yourself, would a team rather have Wolf or Lowe… I’m thinking most teams would rather have Lowe.
RC
December 14th, 2009
2:48 pm
Boyer for Barton… kind of a wash. – Erik
I have to strongly disagree with that. Talent-wise they may be a wash, but a player like Barton has some value to the Braves, even if it’s just as a defensive replacement late in games. Boyer had a negative value, because there isn’t a situation in which you could trust him to come into the game and get outs. I’m much more willing to have a backup who can’t hit than ANYONE in the bullpen who can’t get people out.
Jersey Gil
December 14th, 2009
2:51 pm
CSN Report that Roy Halladay will be trade to the Phillis this week…Phillis will send Clif Lee to Toronto….I guess Phillis want more Righty in there rotation.
pryguy
December 14th, 2009
2:51 pm
Just throwing that suggestion out there… Contrary to others’ opinions, I think Vlad is a good option with his capabilities to hit for power. However, it is clear his durability and consistency can be a definite question mark.
Bay Area Steve
December 14th, 2009
2:56 pm
I hate Paul Lentz.
Bobby Hill
December 14th, 2009
2:56 pm
You guys need ot look at these trade proposals from the other team’s prospectives. Vazquez pitched great last season, but in 2010 he’s likely to move back toward his career averages. Especially outside of Atlanta. Based on his career numbers Vazquez is a solid middle of the rotation innings eater with one year left on his contract. No one is gonna give up an impact bat for that. Lowe has three years left on an upside down contract. Paying a pitcher a million dollars per win is not a good return on investment. (Not for a mid-market team.) Lowe’s numbers may get better in 2010 and then again they may not. Pitchers generally don’t age like fine wine. Signing Lowe was a mistake and there’s not a team out there that wants to help Frank Wren cover up his mistake by taking on all of Lowe’s contract plus sending something useful back in the process. The Braves are gonna have to eat some of his contract, and the relative usefulness of the piece the Braves get in return will depend on how much money they are willing to eat.
Bay Area Steve
December 14th, 2009
2:56 pm
I despise Paul Lentz.
TommyP
December 14th, 2009
2:56 pm
Pretty sure DOB said on another blog that Wren was looking at FA for our bats. Am I right?
Bay Area Steve
December 14th, 2009
2:56 pm
I abhor Paul Lentz.
richbrave
December 14th, 2009
2:57 pm
Once again another off-season has hit the CHRISTMAS/HANNUKAH lull. All the denizens conjectures have been carefully laid out by the chimney with care in hopes the BRAVES management would not despair. Oh, well, been there done that. Count on DOB to keep us up to date on all things BRAVES. Time for a walk and some Holiday shopping.
Bay Area Steve
December 14th, 2009
2:57 pm
I dislike Paul Lentz…
more than Robert; I didn’t think that was possible.
McFann O
December 14th, 2009
2:57 pm
Nate McLouth hasn’t picked a new number by any chance, has he?
O.J.
December 14th, 2009
2:58 pm
Happ would almost definitely have to be in any deal for Halladay, and supposedly Lee would be dealt as well. So, a rotation of Halladay, Hamels and 3 question marks does not scare anyone.
Daslied
December 14th, 2009
2:58 pm
I agree with Rob about Vlad – sad to see his decline. He was just scary for so many years.
Random – kudos. “Pumpkin”.
Bay Area Steve
December 14th, 2009
2:58 pm
I’ve looked up his address twice now, and I’m hoping that by publicly stating this, I’ll realize that I can’t go say hi, or I could get in real trouble.
Erik
December 14th, 2009
2:59 pm
RC,
I simply meant that neither player contributed one way or another to their respective teams. Although was brilliant for half a year with Boyer 2.68 ERA in 37IP. I still think he is going to have a couple really good years in front of him. I really like him.
sidslidkid
December 14th, 2009
2:59 pm
Bay Area Steve, what are your feeling towards Paul Lentz?
LudaChris
December 14th, 2009
2:59 pm
^ I’ve contemplated this myself too. I’m biased because I have always been a big Vlad fan, but the unfortunate truth is that his body won’t let him play defense and its clear his value lies at DH now. Sadly for my hopes of this dream signing coming through, we are a National League team. Pass on Vlad.
I do however think Delgado at 1B might be worth a look. Pretty sure no one agrees with me on that either.
beekay
December 14th, 2009
2:59 pm
Nick Johnson will not get a one yr 7 mill contract. There is no way he makes more than 5 mill…I think he will get a Loaf type of deal for 3 mill or 2 yrs 5 mill..he gets on base alot and plays some D but he is more brittle than peanut
Bay Area Steve
December 14th, 2009
2:59 pm
“HATE”
Rob in pain from (SC)
December 14th, 2009
3:00 pm
anybody have a wii
Travis
December 14th, 2009
3:00 pm
Phillies looking to trade Lee if Halladay comes on board. That could change the market for Lowe with Angels. Just depends on who The Phillies would want back in the trade.
NS
December 14th, 2009
3:01 pm
I say we sign Troy Glaus for cheap, since he’s coming off of shoulder surgery, and stick him at first.
TnBrian
December 14th, 2009
3:01 pm
Jersey girl, you’re obviously a Phillies fan, like Anders is a Mets fan patrolling Brave Land, but I guess that’s cool.
Anyways, I realize Wren can only do so much with the budget he’s given & he’s smart to want to hang on to his prized prospects, etc. BUT, if Philly does grab Halladay he might be working extra hours these next few months to go that extra mile to bolster his team. If they keep Lee & add Halladay to go with that lineup, they can certainly destroy any team in this league more than they have the last couple of seasons.
Travis
December 14th, 2009
3:03 pm
Isn’t Lee FA in 2010? Mlb says no discount for extention contract wherever he goes.
NC Braves Fan
December 14th, 2009
3:03 pm
N8: on Vazquez, it’s not just the Western Division clubs. The Braves won’t trade him in the NL East most likely either, so that’s three of the six divisions.
Then if you back out the White Sox and Yankees (he’s already pitched in those places and did not do well) and throw in the non-contenders, there aren’t that many suitable trade partners left for Vazquez.
Odds are it would have to be the Cubs, STL, Texas, Boston, Baltimore or Houston (even that’s a stretch).
dmack2027
December 14th, 2009
3:03 pm
Not afraid of J.A. Happ. Am afraid of Kyle Drabek. Kid is supposed to have lock down stuff. I hope he goes in this deal, as well as one or both of Philly’s stud outfielders.
The fact that the Phils have enough to trade for Halladay, third team involved or not, says that Cleveland did not get enough from them when they traded Cliff Lee.
Burdell
December 14th, 2009
3:08 pm
The GM of the Indians should be beaten with a stick for that deal. He should have gotten so much more from the Phils.
Bay Area Steve
December 14th, 2009
3:08 pm
ugaaccountant,
I’ve no problem with calling a right-hander a LOOGY. I think it states, in as few words as possible, what a pitcher is. Random likes to use a lot of words, and likes to pick others’ apart. Calling a pitcher a LOOGY is as descriptive as any other term. I know exactly what the user means. We knew, when the conversation went down, that the pitcher was right-handed. I knew exactly what you meant. Don’t be deterred by Random. He’s kind of a…something. But, he’s solid, here. Forgive him his…something.
18 Wheels of Love
December 14th, 2009
3:08 pm
I’d be semi-OK with Rivera, Nady and Glaus and call it a Winter.
Bay Area Steve
December 14th, 2009
3:09 pm
TnBrian,
Every time I think you’re getting better, you revert to, well, you.
TommyP
December 14th, 2009
3:10 pm
If I’m Wren and my intentions are to keep Vazquez, I’m working on extending his contract right now. If he can’t work out something, then I’d see what I could get for Javy since he’ll only be here for one more year.
Honestly, a rotation of Jurrjens, Hudson, Hanson, Lowe and Kawakami is very good. If you can get a bat for Javy, go get him now. (if he can’t be re-signed)
Brad in MT
December 14th, 2009
3:10 pm
The more I read about having to dump Lowe for nothing AND throw in 3-5 million, the more I think that maybe we should hang onto him and try to deal Vazquez. If the Braves believe that Lowe can bounce back than they should hold onto him and try to trade JV for something of value, and the 3-5 million we would have to eat to move Lowe would be the equivalent of their salary differences. Unless the Braves know for sure they can sign JV to an extension thatis reasonable, because if he asks for Lackey type money, he’s not gonna be here next year anyhow…Lowe won 15 games, even if it wasn’t pretty and I think its better to hold onto him and trade JV for value than dump Lowe, who may have a better next few years than JV in the end.
o-me
December 14th, 2009
3:10 pm
Lackey to red sox…espn . That would open some clubs for Lowe if true.
raleighbravefan
December 14th, 2009
3:10 pm
Bobby Hill – I agree with your assesment. However, if we dump his salary with almost no other return, that frees up $$ to spend on other players. It is like trading for those players.
Jessee James
December 14th, 2009
3:10 pm
McFann, I’ve been wondering about Nate’s new number too. I guess 18.
TheManMike
December 14th, 2009
3:11 pm
no way this actually works….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAwcel1Eb0s
N8
December 14th, 2009
3:12 pm
I’d trade Vazquez to the Marlins if they gave us Hanley Ramirez.
Homer
December 14th, 2009
3:12 pm
DOB, you need to be fired.
Chopper
December 14th, 2009
3:12 pm
DOB,
There seems a couple ways the Braves can go in addressing their offensive holes. Part of it hinges on whether Jason Heyward is their RF in April or in June. The other part hinges on what they get back in a trade for Derek Lowe or Javy Vasquez if there are no takers for Lowe.
Heyward in April: if you go with Heyward at the start, you only need to sign someone to play 1B, preferably a big bopper. I’m assuming that the Braves are happy with allowing Matt Diaz to be the starting LF in this scenario, because they offered him a contract. He was easily one of their most reliable hitters last season and deserves the right to a starting job in April.
Heyward in June: if you wait on Heyward (because he has a slow spring or just to save some $$$) then the Braves have to sign a LF/RF and a 1B. In this scenario I think you don’t have to get a super bopper at either position, just decent power at each. Then when Heyward is ready you pick the two guys playing the best out of the three (Diaz and the two new signees) to fill the LF and 1B spot. I don’t know why you wouldn’t try Matt Diaz at 1B if you can sign two better OF’s who don’t play 1B. Diaz has done it before and I think it’d be a good fit.
Lowe traded: if you trade Lowe, I think you are most likely to get mid level prospects if you want the other team to pick up all the $$$. The only other thing you could get back is a veteran with a bad contract. And that doesn’t help the Braves. They either need a player who can help or salary space. Wren shouldn’t be too choosy if he can get Lowe moved and the whole salary picked up.
Vasquez traded: if you can’t move Lowe (even for nothing), then they should take offers on Vasquez, but if you don’t get a power hitting 1B or corner OF, then there is no point in trading Vasquez. Just go into the season with Kawakami in long relief and see what happens in July. Then you’ll have more interest in Lowe or even Kawakami.
sidslidkid
December 14th, 2009
3:13 pm
“I’d be semi-OK with Rivera, Nady and Glaus and call it a Winter.” – 18 Wheels of Love
I think you might be semi-let down this winter. I see us getting 2 more decent players this offseason at most. I just don’t see us landing anything special for Lowe.
chip off the ol block
December 14th, 2009
3:14 pm
well looks all but certian that Roy Halliday is going to the phils…. sounds like their already in extension talks with Roy’s agent hopefully the Jays are milking everything they can get out of this, because this dont go well for us
raleighbravefan
December 14th, 2009
3:14 pm
OJ – I agree – If Phillies want to trade Lee and Happ for Halliday, I’m all for that. That gives them 1 Ace, 1 #3(?), and nothing.
As If
December 14th, 2009
3:15 pm
Posted with Bradley as well on this one, but it was topical on this blog as well since the discussion of the 2005 team.
All I can do is laugh out loud at ANYONE who thinks that the Braves were hasty in trading Francoeur! It has been obvious for at least a couple of years that Francoeur was a losing project in Atlanta. Frenchy still looks like a wild duck looking for a place to S**T when he swings the bat. He’s fundamentally flawed in his swing. For him to be successful, his timing has to be perfect. He has no margin for error. He was nothing but timing error his last two years with the Braves. Maybe he will thrive somewhere else but I’m glad someone else is taking that gamble.
Kelly Johnson on the other hand looked fundamentally sound with the bat. Nice swing….nice pop…….questionable head. I realize many have mentioned KJs wrist problems but even when healthy, he was the picture of streaky. Blazing hot or cold as ice. I would rather have unspectacularly solid, day in and day out. Those guys get you to the post season. Someone who is hitting .500 for 3 weeks while everyone else on the team is hot as well, ain’t gonna help you when they hit .050 in the next 3 weeks.
In my opinion, cutting ties with Frenchy and KJ finally sets the Braves up to try and build a winning club based on performance rather than potential. All that 2005 did was make the Braves waaaay too patient with the young players they had. As long as those ties to “potential” stayed with the club… someone would want to be inserting them in the lineup.
McFann O
December 14th, 2009
3:15 pm
Jessee James–
Hmm…13…18…that’s a good guess. ‘Cause I mean, close up the open end of a 3, you got an 8…
18 Wheels of Love
December 14th, 2009
3:19 pm
sislidkid…completely agree…my expectations are pretty low.
Chopper
December 14th, 2009
3:20 pm
A couple of names I’ve not seen mentioned on here:
Vladimir Guerrero
Garrett Atkins
Troy Glaus
Vlad had a down year due to injury. But if he was healthy and used carefully like Bobby Cox is famous for doing, I think he could be huge for the Braves. He could play RF until Heyward is ready and then move over to LF and split time with Matt Diaz to keep him fresh.
Atkins had a tough year, but he showed quite a bit of consistent ability over the past 3 years before that. Perhaps a change of scenery would help. He could move to 1B and then backup Chipper and be an insurance policy if Chipper had any extended injury.
Glaus was injured most of last season. But if healthy he could be a nice power addition to the lineup. He’s place a little 1B.
The key is to sell Bobby Cox and his farewell season to entice players who wanted to play for him at some point to make it happen before he retires.
N8
December 14th, 2009
3:20 pm
NC Braves Fan, yeah but here’s the thing. If you start talking teams from the Central Division in both leagues, you can pretty much take Minnesota, KC, Detroit and Milwaukee and certainly the Indians,Reds and Pirates out of the mix for Derek Lowe.
Where the Astros, Twins, Royals and maybe Detroit might have interest in Vazquez for one year at 11.5 million to make a run.
Royals have money to spend, and have shown the propensity to go after one bigger name per year since Dayton Moore has taken over and with his relationship with the Braves, who knows? They could certainly use one more “Ace” to go with Greinke at the top of that rotation. Hell, that might be enough to help them keep up in the weaker AL Central?
Hard to say. You guys are probably right. But from my angle a one year contract for a guy that got Cy Young votes at 11.5 million is going to be easier to move than a 3 year 45 million dollar contract for a guy in his late 30’s, coming off his worst season in some time, any day of the week. No matter how many teams are involved.
And as I joked about Hanley Ramirez, I have enough confidence in our remaining pitching (even if that includes either Lowe or Vazquez stayinng), that I would absolutely not blink at moving him within the division if we got the right bat back in return.
ugaaccountant
December 14th, 2009
3:20 pm
Random – There are advantages to a platoon. But when your club is looking for a cleanup hitter’s production (.300, .400, .500, .900 happy?), it’s not exactly easy to find that in a platoon. People threw out 3 names of realistic candidates, I looked it up, and they aren’t good enough even batting 100% of the time against their prefered pitcher.
Now if we’re looking to platoon 1 of our outfield spots in replacement of Garett Anderson’s role and contributions, that’s much easier to find. It’s just nothing to get excited about as Garett frankly was our weakest player left at the end of 2009 considering Offense and Defense. That’s why you haven’t seen anyone thinking we were bringing him back, but you have seen some regrets regarding Church and KJ.
N8
December 14th, 2009
3:24 pm
Hell, I’d even think about moving Vazquez to Philly if we got Drabek back in return. Then we could dump Lowe’s salary, insert Drabek and spend big money on two guys for the lineup.
But who thinks that’s going to happen? Not me.
Al for ATL
December 14th, 2009
3:26 pm
Whether or not Church worked out for us, we HAD to get Francouer out of the lineup. He was killing the team offensively, and he would have been non-tendered at the end of the season – meaning we never would have gotten a whiff of the playoffs and would have gotten nothing in return. It was a good move for Wren to take a flier on Church, who had shown some promise before his concussions and then internal squabbles with the Mets. If not for the arbitration system mandating a big raise, he probably would have stayed around.
ESPN indicates that Lackey is about to sign with the Red Sox. Go Sox! Now if the Angels just miss out on Halladay, we may have a prime suitor for Lowe . . .
Daslied
December 14th, 2009
3:28 pm
Someone explain to me why Toronto would do a Lee-Halladay swap? I understand the Phils’ side, if they can work out an extension. But why would Toronto do an ace-for-and-ace swap, when both are FA in 2011, and they’d be sending money (as reported)?
Mike Mike Bo
December 14th, 2009
3:28 pm
DOB — When are you heading to Whistler again? I just got back this morning from my second trip of the season season. All I can say is… WOW! The snow up there right now is perfect… and there’s a LOT of it. Good times! =)
TnBrian
December 14th, 2009
3:29 pm
Bay Area Steve, how’s this comment for “getting better”….
It’s funny, we’re talking about a washed up Vlad, Glaus & Delgado, Jack Cust, & more has- beens & never-will-be’s while our division rivals are looking to get the best pitcher in baseball & the 2nd best FA hitter on the market. Sure, the Mets will choke away any hope they have if they get close, but Philly is a force that’s about to get a lot stronger.
By the way, Delgado can probably still give a team 25 or more HR’s, but his hip will probably give out again & he’ll refuse to stand up during the P.O.A. You want that here?
If I could sing like Paul McCartney and get funky like Etta James
December 14th, 2009
3:31 pm
DOB Why did we loose so many of those players? Was it arbitration jacking up their salary to the point that the Braves could not afford to let them develop or were they beat out by younger prospects. I always liked guys like Pete Orr as a back-up.
I fell the worst trade was not the one for Tex, but the Gonzo for Roachie and Wainwright for Drew trades. Gonzo gave us one good season out of three and we would have kept all those players we gave away for Tex. Drew was a one and done not worth an ace.
Andy K.
December 14th, 2009
3:32 pm
D’Backs interested in KJ. Could prompt an Augie Ojeda Trade, he’d be a good bench bat.
D’Bakcs would Get:
Lowe
Freeman
B. Jones
Braves get:
Jackson
Ojeda
Whitesell
ugaaccountant
December 14th, 2009
3:32 pm
So the Phillies are getting Halladay for Happ and extending Halladay’s contract? Then trading Lee to save money and get a decent return in players/prospects? So for 2010 they are upgrading from Lee to Halladay at their ace position. To truly win this scenario, they have to get someone equally as good as Happ either via the Lee trade or via free agency or via promotion from the minors.
I’m thinking the prospects included with Happ for Halladay will roughly equal the prospects they get in return when they trade Lee.
N8
December 14th, 2009
3:32 pm
Daslied, it’s now being rumored that it would be a 3-team swap, with Philly getting Halladay, Toronto getting prospects and a 3rd team gettin Lee. Not Toronto. Rosenthal also states that Philly/Toronto could do a swap without the 3rd team with speculation that Toronto would then trade Lee themselves.
The two main teams being rumored to be the 3rd team are the Angels and Seattle. Two teams that were not only after Lackey, but after Halladay themselves.
I guess the Phillies aren’t sold on Lee or would rather have a RH pitcher instead?
Just Because
December 14th, 2009
3:32 pm
Just because Justin Heyward breaks camp with the Braves in April, it doesn’t mean the outfield quandry is officially settled. Seems like there was a guy name Shafer that started in CF on opening day and we see how that worked out.
When Braves management tells you that Heyward is going to be allowed to compete for a starting role in the outfield in the spring, that just means the fans aren’t going to see a deal made for a legit outfield power bat. It’s really pretty simple. You get the fans all geeked up about a prospect like they are Heyward and you use that prospect to soften the blow of not being able to get the product in the off season that you promised you would get for two years now.
Jump me! Scold me! Call me an idiot! But lets just see what the Braves lineup looks like on opening day. I’ll bet the farm that legit power source is STILL not part of it.