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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
5,207 comments Add your comment
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:15 am
I don’t know that anyone can top the Cards in years for Holliday but Bay lives in the state of Washington which isn’t far from LA. Given the choice between the Mets and Angels I would bet he choices Angels.
gcs
December 15th, 2009
1:17 am
This is like deja vu all over again. This time last year, Wren was lining up some solid pitching and did NOTHING about getting the Braves some serious offense.
.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:18 am
Who knows I could be wrong completely on Holliday and Bay to the Angels. But their are options out their for them. Giving up Rivera for a pitcher that would fit great for them may not be a steep price with other available players.
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:19 am
there was a poll on csn philly sportsnite that said who would you rather have lee or halladay …55 percent said lee
Marc D
December 15th, 2009
1:20 am
I didn’t know the payroll savings was 31 million, but if they took on Lowe’s salary, the payroll savings would only allow them to match the 16 million/ year offer that the Cards made. Granted that just highlights how poor the Cardinals offer is, but the larger point is that we just can’t be sure LA could afford to make him an offer he can’t refuse.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:21 am
P’cola
Who are the target teams for the Dynamic Duo?
Holliday: Cards???
Bay: Mets???
If the Braves deal Lowe successfully (without eating much $$), could they be a dark horse?
Here’s hoping KJ hooks on w/ a team that will give him a shot at starting. I think he will do well.
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:25 am
wayne,jon heyman said awhile ago that if the braves could get lowe off the books then braves could be a bay suitor
jed
December 15th, 2009
1:27 am
i dont see the lowe situation as grimly as many here do. there’s just not enough quality pitching available out there. it’s simple math. eventually, teams are going to be calling wren about lowe because their other options are not as good. that’s when lowe’s value rises. i think the angels would be wise to make an offer of rivera for lowe while atlanta would still eat some of his contract. as spring training approaches, a big-money team is going to want to finalize their rotation, and 15 mil for lowe’s not gonna look that bad.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:27 am
To me Holliday is either a Cardinal or Angel and Bay is either a Met, Mariner, or Angel. As far as the Braves sound like we have no interest in either.
What I suggested earlier is that if Rivera isn’t acquired through trade that the Braves sign Nady and a cheap outfield option. Come summer if the Rays are out of it, which they probably will be with the moves the Yanks and Bo Sox have made, we try to acquire Crawford or Pena before they hit the FA market.
Marc D
December 15th, 2009
1:27 am
The Braves wouldn’t get involved in that sweepstakes, even for 2 million less than the aforementioned clubs were offering. I just hope that we can net a reasonably good bat for a reasonably good price. If Vlad Guerrero drops to 5-6million, it might even be worth giving up a little defense in the field. If we are going to compete in our division we need some serious thump!
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:28 am
I thought for the longest time we would be a Bay suitor but Wren and Cox keep shooting it down. We have tried to trade for Bay the last few years so I thought when he hit the market we would try.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:29 am
Vlad may be worse defensively then Anderson was.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:29 am
Andrew
For sure. Thing is, the Braves from BC to FW are saying they are not in on those guys. Could this be posturing? Probably not. My only reason for even mentioning it is FW’s penchant for the big splash.
On the one hand, I would love either of those two righties in our lineup, but if it would handicap us in signing some of our young guns down the road, then I would rather go it without them.
DOB
With Cameron off the board, are you sensing any others that we might have strong interest in? (be careful, as whatever you might say will end up on mlbtraderumors in about 10 milliseconds.
masivatack
December 15th, 2009
1:30 am
Ok, as much as I follow the braves and try to keep up with the farm teams, today I realized I must not know much.
I thought Freddie Freeman was a black dude.
I mean Freddie Freeman is a really good black dude name. What I was picturing in my mind was someone in the mold of Pedro Cerrano. Someone very intimidating looking. Boy was I wrong. He’s so white, he makes Adam Laroche look like Malcolm X.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:31 am
Wayne hears an Idea. The Braves trade a little bit of money and Lowe to the Angels for Wood. Sign Nady and Pursue Bay.
Angels sign Beltre and everything is good. Wouldn’t that be wonderful.
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:31 am
can vladdy play first??
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:32 am
As much as we collectively complained about Loaf’s below average defense, let’s not even get into any Vlad conversations. He only played a handful of games in the outfield last year.
Wheels are falling off for Vlad.
John
December 15th, 2009
1:32 am
I’m sorry, but when did an .800 OPS corner outfielder become such a prized commodity?
Not to say that Rivera wouldn’t be a great addition, but this idea that he’s such a great value at $5m seems a bit absurd.
He’s had one great season and a couple of decent ones, combined with a few miserable ones. He’s essentially Nate Mclouth without the base running ability. He’s certainly better than the bevy of below average corner outfielders we’ve had for the past few years, but at most he’s worth about $6m per season, maybe 7 if you can figure out a reason to make you believe there’s a better chance that he reverts to his great 2006 season, rather than his terrible 2005 and 2008 ones.
Assuming Lowe has neutral value at his current contract, a trade for Rivera really shouldn’t include more than 3-4 million. And looking at the current market for starting pitching, I don’t think we should look at Lowe’s contract as being much less than neutral value.
There just really isn’t a whole lot of excess value on Rivera’s. Mike Cameron is about the same caliber hitter and an outstanding defensive center fielder, rather than a corner outfielder, and he just signed a contract for $7.5m/year. Yeah he’s old, but he hasn’t shown any of the traditional signs of decline.
Night Ninja
December 15th, 2009
1:33 am
With Halliday and Lackey out of the way it looks like we are about to get some action on the home front. As in Derek Lowe. But somehow I think we are all about to be very disappointed in whatever we get in return.
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
1:34 am
Nady will be a Brave before this off season ends. Heard it here first.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:34 am
Wayne hears an Idea. The Braves trade a little bit of money and Lowe to the Angels for Wood. Sign Nady and Pursue Bay.
Angels sign Beltre and everything is good. Wouldn’t that be wonderful.
jed
December 15th, 2009
1:35 am
“I mean Freddie Freeman is a really good black dude name.” masivattack
oh god i’m still laughing over this!
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:36 am
P’cola
Yeah, I like the Wood, Nady, Bay haul, but I just don’t see it happening.
Ninja
The haul on Lowe is going to depend largely on what we have to do to sweeten the pot.
If we send them no cash, then I would expect a couple of mid level prospects.
If we kick in 3 mil per year, then Rivera might be a possibility.
And chances are he goes to some other team we might not be focusing on right now…..
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:37 am
tiger, who else we getting besides nady?
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:38 am
The teams that could afford Lowe right now I would guess to be the O’s, Mets, and Angels. I couldn’t imagine us trading w/in the division.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:38 am
Tiger
I have still not given up hope of a LaRoche return, but I like Nady, when he is healthy.
jed
December 15th, 2009
1:39 am
tell you the truth, first time i heard we had a great prospect named freddie freeman, i thought he was a black dude too. nope, “jason heyward” is the black dude. kinda funny.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:39 am
Yankees maybe?? Cubbies??
jed
December 15th, 2009
1:40 am
nady and glaus might not be too bad of a gamble.
Night Ninja
December 15th, 2009
1:40 am
Dear John letter,
John. Juan Rivera, the .800 OPS outfielder became a prized commodity when steroids and greenies went out the window. By the way, he’s got a rifle for an arm and plays solid D. but still, I seriously doubt the Angels will trade him.
And John, I’m sorry, I don’t love you anymore
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:41 am
glaus is a terrible gamble..he would be ok if that was our 3rd bat signing
jed
December 15th, 2009
1:42 am
but i think the rivera / lowe trade could happen as well. braves eat 3 mil per on that deal and it’s very fair for all.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:42 am
I know the likelihood is slim, but if Freeman showed a good glove and had a decent spring, could you bat him 8th in front of the pitcher…..minimal pressure situation to see what he could do?
Probably not, but would’t it be great to be able to bring up both kids. Would that give us enough cash to make a play for Bay for a 5 year, 15 million per offer???
jed
December 15th, 2009
1:42 am
why andrew? what’s so terrible a gamble there?
David O'Brien
December 15th, 2009
1:43 am
Jed, safe to say you’re not the only one who had that initial assumption. It is kinda funny.
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
1:45 am
Andrew,
My guess would be some average to below average outfielder that can play a little defense and hit a little, but probably nothing special. Who knows though it all depends on what we can do with Lowe. My best guess is Nady and average outfielder. I hope I am wrong and that we can make a big splash with the trading of Lowe. What you think??
Wayne,
I just don’t think that LaRoche is in our plans. Wouldn’t mind it though.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:45 am
Alas, methinks we might just have to exercise some patience to see what “smilin’ frank” has up his sleeve…….
As much as our blog idiot believes FW actually looks at what he posts, I just ain’t feelin it!
(subliminal message to FW…….bring in Ryan Freel for a tryout frankie baaaabbbby!!!!!)
nolie
December 15th, 2009
1:45 am
The Braves trade a little bit of money and Lowe to the Angels for Wood. P’C
Lowe AND money for a guy who has done absolutely nothing above the AAA level and is looking more & more like an AAAA player every year? That’s nuts. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that he will ever be anything in the bigs. We’d be better off just giving them Lowe and saving the money you are so eager to waste.
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:46 am
sorry jed i just said that because i thought he has been hurt for years because i havent heard his name in awhile..but check the stats and i was impressed..the only thing though is you dont want 2 gambles heading into the new year with nady and glaus…boston should sign glaus to dh
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
1:47 am
Wayne,
We tried that with Shaef better not try that again.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:48 am
nolie
how ya been? Spending a day or two down at a nice So Cal beach, with NO time to get out on the sand…….some times life ain’t fair.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:50 am
I doubt that the Angels take on Lowe’s full contract, may as well get something. The guy is only 24 and used to be considered to have a lot of high side.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:50 am
Tiger
Actually, if Schafer wasn’t hurt early on, it might have worked out. He hurt his wrist about 4-5 games into the season…home starter I believe.
Again, it probably wouldn’t work out…..
nolie
December 15th, 2009
1:50 am
.the only thing though is you dont want 2 gambles heading into the new year with nady and glaus Andrew in Pa
probably right Andrew, I doubt they would take a gamble on two guys
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
1:51 am
Plus Nolie that was a little big sarcastic. My post also mentioned going after Bay which won’t happen. Just goofing off with someone else.
N8
December 15th, 2009
1:51 am
masivatack, completely agree with your 1:11 post.
What they just did would be like us last off-season trading JJJ and Hanson for Peavy. Who at the time was being raved as one of the games best.
Lee has a Cy Young award, he’s battle tested and obviously one of the best 10-20 pitchers in baseball. Halladay might be better. But to give up Lee AND Drabek for Halladay?
I suppose if you’ve got the money to spend and don’t want to go through the growing pains of Drabek. And obviously, Lee turned down a long-term deal, so I don’t blame them on pulling the trigger on a trade for an Ace that WANTED to be a Phillie.
They basically gave up Lee (and the possibility of Drabek being a cheap Ace for the guarantee of Halladay being their Ace. If Cole Hamels comes back to his 2008 form (I’d say the odds are about the same as Tim Hudson becoming what he once was are about the same). The only difference is that Hamels is their #2.
Hudson might be our #4 or #5 depending on who stays between Lowe and Vazquez.
Tiger Even you aren’t giving JJJ as much credit as a Braves fan should. 2.60 ERA in what the people tell me is as neutral a park as it comes. Hernandez had a 2.45 ERA in a park that Griffey Jr. and Arod couldn’t wait to get out of due to it being a pitcher’s paradise. Hernandez pitched about 20 more innings. Not unheard of in a league with the DH where it is NEVER necessary to PH for the pitcher.
So Hernandez is more “filthy” than JJJ. Does a Braves fan really need to be reminded that no matter how filthy a guy is, and how many K’s he racks up doesn’t make the man? Glavine was NEVER considered filthy. Yeah. I said it. JJJ reminds me of a RH version of Glavine. Walks too many people to be considered a young “poor man’s” Maddux. But his style and numbers are VERY Glavine-esque in an ERA where the hitters rule.
In 1991 when Glavine put it all together, he was 25 year old pitcher who had 105 starts under his belt. Jurjjens just pretty much matched his 1991 season other than win total (not his fault), and about 30 less innings. But as a 23 year old, Bobby certainly protects his young guys more than he would have a 25 year old Glavine with that much ML experience.
Did I mention he’s 23? As far as Hernandez being “filthy”? I get it. I’ve watched him pitch. When I had the Extra Innings package in 2008, I watched a ton of Mariners games. Pretty much my favorite AL team (I have uncles that have had season tickets since the early 80’s lean years). He’s got 138 ML starts under his belt. Tommy Hanson has 21 of them and is just as filthy as Hernandez is.
In fact I’m willing to bet that Hanson will be very comparable to Hernandez in 2010. If Vazquez is retained and has anywhere NEAR the season he had last year, we will have 3 guys that are damn near as good as Lee/Hernandez.
Sorry to go off. I’m not usually this big of a homer. I just think that JJJ and Hanson are THAT good. Whatever Hudon/KK/Vazquez/Lowe gives us in the 3-5 spots of the rotation is friggin gravy in my book.
Our top 3 is unmatched in the NL. Our top 4 (and top 5 for that matter) is unmatched in all of baseball. Is our top two comparable to the big guns out there? I think so. The sad thing is, who is our top two? Vazquez/Hudson? JJJ/Vazquez? Vazquez/Hanson? Hanson/JJJ? Hanson/Hudson? JJJ/Hudson? See my point?
Cliff Lee’s over all ERA+ (how’s that nolie?) was 131 (125 while with Philly). Hernandez’s was an amazing 174.
JJJ, Vazquez and Hanson’s were 158, 143 and 142 respectively.
So I stand by my statement. JJJ and Vazquez is/was just as strong of a duo in 2009 as Hernandez and Lee were when combined with each other. With Hanson right on Vazquez’s heels.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:51 am
I think some will be disappointed with the eventual Lowe trade, while those that are a tad bit more in tuned to things will end up liking what smiling Frank pulls out of his hat.
nolie
December 15th, 2009
1:52 am
Hi Wayne. San Diego, or not that far south? One of my favorite cities and as good all year round weather as about anywhere on the mainland.
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:52 am
DOB,what do you think dye’s price range is?
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
1:52 am
Wayne,
True, in the perfect world Schaf, Heyward, Freeman, would all be ready. Then we could have another group of “baby braves”………i know DOB would LOVE that. lol
nolie
December 15th, 2009
1:54 am
Even you aren’t giving JJJ as much credit as a Braves fan should. 2.60 ERA in what the people tell me is as neutral a park as it comes. N8
wasn’t neutral last year, was the 5-6 best pitcher’s park in baseball. the cow and the coke bottle yaknow
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:54 am
DOB,also can i get a bold prediction on who you think is playing left and first next year in atlanta?
Braves_Fan_RSD
December 15th, 2009
1:55 am
Nolie why do you think Wood is such garbage?? Because over the 3 years he has seen the Major Leagues he has played about 1/3 of a season??? This guy is tearing up the minor leagues and I would love to have him on our team. You can’t judge him when he gets 1 AB here and 1 AB there let him get some regular playing time and see how he does, he has 30+ HR power and .900 + OPS potential.
jed
December 15th, 2009
1:55 am
i hear you but there’s risk in every signing, andrew. you could sign someone you consider “safer” physically, and they might well stay healthy but produce nowhere near what a nady or a glaus might. ie, de rosa & cameron. my bet’s that wren makes one “safe” acquisition (ie, trade for williingham-type player) and one “gamble” (ie, glaus or nady). i dont sense big risk in nady, for what that’s worth. players get injured, miss a year, and come back strong all the time.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:55 am
N8
Good problem when you can’t figure out who is your 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 huh….
On any given day, any of the big six could pitch like a true #1. And it ain’t a stretch that they do it often.
Like I said, danged good problem to have…..
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
1:57 am
Good post N8.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
1:57 am
nolie
Yeah, I love San Diego too. One of my top 5 cities…..
We are up at Oxnard…
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
1:58 am
is jurrjens4nlcy still over on the other blog filling up pages
nolie
December 15th, 2009
1:59 am
Nolie why do you think Wood is such garbage?? Because over the 3 years he has seen the Major Leagues he has played about 1/3 of a season??? This guy is tearing up the minor leagues and I would love to have him on our team. BF RSD
for one reason cause I know a friend who is still scouting that says they are losing their belief in him. He might be ok, but there is really no reason to believe that at the MLB. If they could get him for Lowe it would be acceptable I guess, but not to throw them money too. He is just too unproven.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:00 am
Why does it seem that there is no market for Laroche? I wonder if the Braves will look into Delgado. The guy cranks HR out like its nothing.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
2:02 am
Delgado = great hitter (when healthy)
Brandon from Warner Robins
December 15th, 2009
2:02 am
What is a “shyster”?
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
2:02 am
P’Cola,
Do you think Delgado comes back this season and hits as well as he has in the past?? I think he is done to be honest, but he would be a nice sign for cheap for sure.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
2:03 am
P’cola
I think Adam might have priced himself out of the market….but that thingy about sucking in the first half is a big downer too.
N8
December 15th, 2009
2:03 am
“wasn’t neutral last year, was the 5-6 best pitcher’s park in baseball. the cow and the coke bottle yaknow?” nolie
I’m not going to (ok maybe I will in a civil way. LOL), get into this with you. When we went round and round and you “educated” me on the whole park adjusted thing, you stated that it was an evaluation process that takes place over a few years (depending on the site doing the evaluating). Correct?
So how come now you want to single out “last year”? And if doing so, don’t you have to take into consideration that the Braves pitchers were all pretty damn good, while the offense was frickin’ horrible?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you put a lineup of weak “no power” hitters in the Rockies lineup, and lined up their rotation with stellar pitchers, wouldn’t Coors Field for “that year” likely be one of the better pitchers parks?
I’m not really arguing with you (well, maybe kind of). But didn’t our weak lineup and good pitching (since that literally accounts for half of the “stats” accumulated last year at Turner Field), affect how Turner Field is judged when determining how the park played?
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
2:04 am
Brandon
Go to Websters, and you will see a picture of a large ego’d man from San Francisco.
N8
December 15th, 2009
2:05 am
Thanks Tiger.
Wasn’t trying to jump you or anything. I’m just long-winded and it takes me a while to get to my point. Just wanted to let you know that I’m far from a homer on this blog. But I do believe in our pitching. Even that Vazquez guy who some have said is not my guy. LOL
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:05 am
Delgado hit 38 HR in ‘08. I would sign Nady with him in case but if he bounces back he could be terrific. We have enough versatility to let him have days off when he needs it. Infante, Prado, and Nady could help with that.
Marc D
December 15th, 2009
2:05 am
Wayne, it would be awfully hard to be disappointed in a Lowe trade unless we take on a large portion of his salary or the trade takes too long to happen, which is my largest concern. With so many FAs signing at this point, I am beginning to wonder if a number of the more significant power options manage to sign by the time we are able to move Lowe, thus limiting the options that we have to pursue. That sort of scenario could possibly force a Vazquez trade out of necessity if we sought a big bat in return.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
2:06 am
and his mama still dresses him funny.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:06 am
Besides last year his lowest game total for a year was 128. If hes healthy hes worth the risk in my opinion. If hes healthy hes a 30 Hr guy which is something we could use.
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
2:09 am
Marc
Though I love Vazquez, and hope we can keep him, I still think we would be almost as well off with Lowe pitching instead of Vazquez.
BUT, Dave mentioned earlier tonight that the Braves are NOT trying to deal him until maybe all the Lowe discussions have been exhausted (Hope I didn’t misquote there….)
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:10 am
The Yankees have reached out to Jason Bay’s representatives, a source tells Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald. While the Mets, Angels, and Mariners are said to be the frontrunners for his services, the article says that the Bombers are “lurking in the weeds.”
MLBtraderumors
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
2:11 am
How much do think Delgado will be looking for?? Anyone have an idea?? I like that idea Pcola.
jed
December 15th, 2009
2:11 am
dob–yeah i think freddie freeman was the tall skinny black dude on ‘welcome back kotter’
P. W. Hjort
December 15th, 2009
2:12 am
Delgado/Glaus is a combo I’d be comfortable.
Nady sucks.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:13 am
He made 12 mil last year but missed near all of it. I would Imagine in the 7-8 mil range if I had to guess. I keep hearing that most teams would just want him to DH but a chance to play first may make Atlanta appealing.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:13 am
I dont understand the hate on Nady but everyone has their opinions I guess.
jed
December 15th, 2009
2:14 am
i like delgado too, but hip surgery at his age seems a bigger risk to me than glaus & nady’s situations. b/c of that risk, i’d guess he’s looking at 1 year / 4-5 mil?
jed
December 15th, 2009
2:15 am
actually, probably more of an incentive based contract. starting low but with a high ceiling.
N8
December 15th, 2009
2:15 am
Totally agree Wayne. VERY good problem to have. I will take our chances if one half of our team has to be better than the other (meaning pitching vs. hitting), with the pitching having the advantage, anyday of the week over having a good hitting team with weak pitching.
Did the Phillies seperate themselves from us with today’s trade? Maybe. But I doubt they are going to tweak their offense too much (at least the starting 8). So, until Wren gives us a glimpse of what our lineup will look like it’s going to be too early to judge.
But overall, our pitching is still better, imo. Like I said before. If Hamels returns to 2008 form, we could be in trouble. But what if Hudson returns to the form he was at when he was shut down in 2008 (he was 11-7 with a 3.17 ERA – and pitched 6 shutout innings with 6 K’s in his last start before getting shut down and having TJ surgery)?
We literally have a chance to have 4 guys with ERA’s in the vicinity of 3.25 or lower next year. And after a horrible April, KK made 21 starts from May-August, pitching 121 innings, and posting a 3.42 ERA.
Cliff Lee’s ERA was 3.22 last year (playoffs not factored in). Save the park adjustment, that’s not that far off.
Like I said. 1-5 (even with Lowe if Vazquez is moved), NOBODY can touch our starting staff.
Now…. will the bullpen hold up? Who the hell knows?
nolie
December 15th, 2009
2:15 am
you stated that it was an evaluation process that takes place over a few years (depending on the site doing the evaluating). Correct? N8
nope that was PWH I believe. There is a yearly figure that takes into account the home team and visiting teams and their differences between each park. I posted ESPN link that lists each year’s listing b4. I will post it here again. Look through the different years. It’s not an exact science. Most parks will play much the same from year to year, the more extreme ones both ways. Cincy is always high scoring, Petco lowscoring, but some of the more normal ones will fluctuate from year to year,Turner is usually pretty neutral you are correct, but last year it played very pitcher-friendly. Ther can be a lot of reasons and I’m no expert in how they do the math so to speak, but those yearly numbers are the ones used to determine ERA+ and OPS+.The ratio of how they played in their park is then adjusted to make 100 an average year. So if a guy has an ERA_ or OPS+ of say 110 that year then he was 10% above normal more or less.
You are right though that in general when a park is described as a hitter’s park several years have been combined in that statement.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
Brandon from Warner Robins
December 15th, 2009
2:16 am
Gotcha Wayne lol
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
2:16 am
Hjort,
In 2000 Nady batted 1.000. So you can’t be saying he sucks. Thats amazing. LOL
P’cola
Thats not too bad. I think you may have talked me into hoping for something. Only problem 2 guys I used to hate on our team now though (Wagner, Delgado) I’m not sure I could take that…….
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:16 am
I know Delgado is playing winter ball in the D.R. If he has a good showing maybe the Braves will get involved.
jed
December 15th, 2009
2:17 am
i dont get the hate on nady either. but then again i rarely agree with mr. jort
Andrew in PA
December 15th, 2009
2:18 am
gotta love that line….if roy halladay is going to the phillies,why is cliff lee going to the mariners?
Tiger Woods
December 15th, 2009
2:19 am
Nady=Braves World Series Champs
Marc D
December 15th, 2009
2:19 am
I would certainly be interested in Delgado at say 5-6 million. With the injury risk I don’t think we could toss too much money into him, plus I am not sure we need another lefty in the lineup. If you are going that route, you could get Mike Jacobs as a backup and then pursue a third piece (Glaus/Nady/etc.). When he’s healthy, he is exactly the sort of pop we need.
Wayne, I agree with your Lowe/Vazquez comparison in part. If he were to bounce back this year, he would almost merit the 15 million dollar salary that he is owed, but that doesn’t change the fact that Vazquez is a far more consistent and reliable option that would prove essential to our success regardless of the pieces around him.
nolie
December 15th, 2009
2:20 am
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you put a lineup of weak “no power” hitters in the Rockies lineup, and lined up their rotation with stellar pitchers, wouldn’t Coors Field for “that year” likely be one of the better pitchers parks?
it influences it a bit of course, but not all that much since it is based on how Atlanta plays at home versus how they play on the road and also on how visiting teams play at the Ted against how they play elsewhere. Too many imputs for what you are saying to affect it a lot. Plus in the scenario that you described the weak team would likely still hit better at Coors than it did anywhere else.
and hey I said it was probably the addition of that big cow. maybe blocking the wind streams
N8
December 15th, 2009
2:21 am
Thanks nolie. But you didn’t answer the question. In your opinion, do you think our lineup and our pitching combined played into that ranking?
P. W. Hjort
December 15th, 2009
2:21 am
Tiger Woods,
Yep. The ‘ole 2nd rounder cameo pinch-hit to try to sell out the last series of the season
Wayne in Utah
December 15th, 2009
2:21 am
If Delgado does well thiw winter, no doubt the Mets will probably lure him back. That’s what my money would be on…..
Nady was a Brave killer back in 2008. He is a good bat, when healthy. Good, not great.
My gut tells me we are going to be very surprised to FW’s eventual team he puts together.
Maybe tomorrow Seattle, LAA, and the Yankees will get in on the “what can I send to the Braves to get Derek Lowe” sweepstakes.
OK Mr Wren, will it be door #1, door #2, or door #3?
N8
December 15th, 2009
2:21 am
OK. “jumped” you too soon. Thanks for the answer. LOL
jed
December 15th, 2009
2:22 am
nady 2008: 25 / 97 .305 .357 .510 .867
production like that is exactly what we’re looking for.
David O'Brien
December 15th, 2009
2:22 am
He’s overpriced at $11 mill per year, but not terribly so, not if he produces close to what he did last season. DOB
he’s terribly overpriced if he has any other year in his career besides last year, and his history sure indicates that was the fluke year so far. — Nolie
Which is why I said, if he produces close to what he did last year. I thought it was clear, at least.
ncgary
December 15th, 2009
2:22 am
i think fillys did us a favor today. lefty aces eat braves hitters for lunch , at least we stand a chance against right handed aces/
npw if filthoes get to the series, doc a much better option than lee
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:23 am
For me signing Nady is the most important thing. Sign Delgado if healthy. That gives us balance in the order. 3 RH, 3 LH, a Switch, and a platoon with a RH and LH.
P'cola Brave
December 15th, 2009
2:25 am
I thought the Mets plan was to use Murphy at first. If they sign Bay then Murphy would more than likely be the 1B
Marc D
December 15th, 2009
2:25 am
I think we are going to be surprised by the team that FW puts together, but not necessarily in a good way. I don’t think our offense will be significantly improved because we probably won’t have a significant return on Lowe and there really aren’t too many game-changing options out there for a team that is unable to offer top dollar, but I think he’s a strong GM who has pulled off quite a bit in the past so I hope I’m wrong.
And just to weigh in on another issue re:N8, at first I was scared by the prospect of the Phillies having Halladay, but Lee was something like 14-2. You can’t really improve on that even if you do acquire a pitcher as dangerous as Halladay.