12:15 pm December 9, 2009, by David O'Brien
Macon Braves (RIP)
December 9th, 20094:14 pm
And in addition to Bay taking up 15% or so of the payroll, it wouldn’t just be for 2 or 3 years. It would be for at least 5 years, probably 6 years, and would tie up that much of the payroll for the longterm.
Nova Scotia Steve - #40
December 9th, 20094:15 pm
Soriano has just been traded to the Indianopolis Clowns of the Negro League cause he’s just going to drive Frank Wren Bozo looking for a decent return.
Soriano will join his former team-mate Jeff Francoeur on the clowns.
NC Braves Fan
On Soriano: I actually think the Braves would be wise to hold on to him until June or July and trade him then. They’d spent more on the bullpen for a few months, but they’d have:
1 – a helluva bullpen, and;
2 – an insurance policy in case Saito or Wagner falter, and;
3 – a great deadline trade chip in Soriano.
Soriano has little trade value now. That will change in a few months.
RIP who would that be?
RM: Yes that is possible, just like was done with Hudson. I had read that Soriano preferred security anyways so def could get him a little cheaper if you would commit to 2 years. He was a setup man half of last year and he could be again if Wagner is healthy and on.
December 9th, 20094:16 pm
Yeah, the Rays have so many players I’d want to get it in…I just hope Soriano goes there and we aren’t disappointed with our return. OR that our return nets us the funds to get it on something else interesting..
I forgot to tell ya buddy…SUCK IT UP! Its 20 degrees here and the snow is blowing sideways from the 50 mph winds. At least you get to go back to Atlanta when this is all over.
Just a heads up in case you were unaware.. Spectacle: with Elvis Costello starts a new season on Sundance channel this Friday with his guest U2. But more importantly for you one of his guests this season will be Neko Case
Chief Nock A Homa
That’s an easy one to answer. He would command over 15% of the payroll all by himself. That’s also why they want to move Lowe so bad, to free up around 15% of the payroll.
Macon Brave – You’re saying it right there – they are moving Lowe to free up the salary for a big bat… Here he is! 15%=15%, right??
Wayne in Utah
Gettin’ darned tired of the “beta prostate” and “cialis” commercials on XM. Feeling too close to home!
I really like these well thought out ideas to punish Soriano by keeping him on the team in middle relief. Boy that’s smart stuff there.
December 9th, 20094:17 pm
key stats on sheets:
pitched 8 seasons
only half with a winning record
last logged 200innings and ERA under 3 in 2004!
missed ALL of last season.
You know what? All fall and late last season, people were clamoring about Carlos Pena and I screamed HELL NO as many times as I could. Dude is a low average strikeout machine.
But his OBP and OPS are not bad, really. He had 87 walks last year to go with his 39 HR. He is only signed for 2010 at 10.25 million dollars. I don’t really know about his defense. But he did start 129 games at 1B last year for the Rays?
So you know what? Considering that we might not get a top prospect for Soriano, a 31 year old stop gap 1B just might do the trick. Not sure what else we’d have to give to get him, but I think we just might have a (temporary – 1 year) love connection, Chuck.
December 9th, 20094:18 pm
What’s worse than getting older?
Chief Nock—15 million for Bay I would do if for a year but how does it impact you long term if you have to go 4 years on it. Is it worth it.
December 9th, 20094:19 pm
Get ready for a Jeff Keppinger and a mid-level prospect for Soriano type deal!
N8: Man if you can get a 39hr guy for Soriano when the world knows we need to trade him that would be incredible.
December 9th, 20094:20 pm
Rafael Soriano and Freeman Freeman to the Rays for Carl Crawford.
Derek Lowe, Kelly Johnson and Manny Acosta to the DBacks for Eric Byrnes and Coner Jackson.
December 9th, 20094:21 pm
Offseason to date:
- Sign a 38 year old closer and give up a first round draft pick(2ND TIME IN 3 YEARS)
- Sign a 40 year old set up man.
- Lose out on two draft picks because one of our players accepted arbitration.
- Be told that the Braves are settling for players like Marlon Byrd, Xavier Nady, etc.
- Also told that Lowe and Soriano will bring back fringe major league prospects.
Not very good. Not very good, at all.
We’d probably have to throw in one of our young lefties or maybe Cody Johnson to get Pena.
Might be worth it.
Boras is always a good laugh:
We’ll add some links from Scott Boras’ lobby chat in this post, though from what I can tell he didn’t say anything interesting. We’ll keep this a tweet-free post.
WEEI’s Rob Bradford has Boras talking about Matt Holliday and Adrian Beltre, where Boras compares Beltre’s offensive ability to Jason Bay’s.
Adam Rubin of the New York Daily News has Boras explaining why the Mets can afford Holliday.
Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch has Boras saying that the Cardinals retaining Holliday is like keeping two players, since it will help them sign Albert Pujols.
December 9th, 20094:22 pm
Soriano for Burrell could be a smart move… just like Delgado, I betcha he ain’t done…
How is Soriano getting paid $6 to $8 million to pitch the middle innings punishment??????????
December 9th, 20094:23 pm
That type of return is what I expect. Keppinger type players.
If you’re not getting anything back for Soriano, then why trade him? Trade Kawakami instead. If you’re not getting anything back for either one, why are you hanging on to the far less impactful $7 million, $8 million pitcher? Or why not just trade both Kawakami and Soriano, and keep Lowe since you’re not getting much back for any of the three of them, and Kawakami + Soriano will make more combined than Lowe.
Enter your comments here
December 9th, 20094:24 pm
You’re saying it right there – they are moving Lowe to free up the salary for a big bat… Here he is! 15%=15%, right??
Read the add-on post I made. Bay would be taking up that much of the salary for 5 or 6 years. The Braves payroll limitations just make undoable. I would LOVE to see Bay in LF for the Braves, but we have to just accept the facts right now that the Braves aren’t owned by Ted Turner anymore and won’t spend like that as long as they are corporatly owned.
How can anyone think Soriano would pitch the middle innings. Forget what is said now, he is better then Saito and would pitch the 8th inning most of the time.
I like your style, but why in the world would we want Eric Byrnes and where the heck would he play if you have Carl Crawford to play LF and Conor Jackson to play 1b?
December 9th, 20094:25 pm
It’s amazing to me that Soriano doesn’t draw more interest.
Guess it’s symptomatic of the impact the economy’s had on things. Five-years ago teams woulda been knocking down the door for a pitcher of MFIKY’s caliber. There woulda been a bidding war of bidding wars.
Still read the ol’ blog every day. Decided to give y’all a short break from the musings of and idiot. Y’all can thank me later… lol
One more thang. THANK THE LAWD that Vazquez is not being actively shopped! I know it’s superstition, but I’ve felt all along that if we kept Vazquez, then Huddy would be fine. If we trade Vaz, we’re lookin at Huddy elbow-problems by June. That’s just the way things seem to go sometimes…
December 9th, 2009
RM- Remember we offered arbitration to him. So its really our fault. I would not give him away either, he’s one of the best. If nobody wants him we will have the best pitching from top to bottom in the majors. Pitching wins titles…….
Pitching won us a ton of titles in the 90’s…oh wait…
rammerjammer: not sure if you’re referring to my post on Soriano, but my point is not to punish him, but to utilize his talents until his trade value increases. Let Soriano duke it out with Saito for the #2 slot in the bullpen!
Noah – even at four years, his production isn’t going to drop off that dramatically…
And, if we can get out of the Lowe contract (as it appears), you know we’d be able to drop that contract after year two, if needed….
December 9th, 20094:26 pm
Wren screwed up in signing Saito. If he had waited, then we’d have Soriano as our 8th inning guy for next year.
This offseason should get Wren fired. No wonder they booted him out of Baltimore.
If Soriano is pitching for the Braves (which I highly doubt) in August, it won’t be in mop up relief.
If you find yourself in the same vicinity of Scott Boras, make sure you keep one hand on your wallet!
December 9th, 20094:27 pm
Noah, I seriously doubt it’s going to happen. I’m just more or so saying that for one year, I’d tolerate Pena, where a year ago, I wouldn’t have wanted any part of him.
No way we’d get him straight up for Soriano. It would take some prospects.
But I seriously doubt the Rays are going to sign him to a multi-year extension. With him being a free agent at the end of 2010, they might be looking to move him and sign a guy similar to the guys we’re looking at (Nady, Nick Johnson, etc…) if it means they can add a guy like Soriano in a trade.
Like I said. Unlikely at best. But I’d take his .225 average and swing for the fences approach (since he finds a way to actualy hit it over the fences close to 40 times – not 15 like Jeffy), over a guy like Mike Lowell for a 1 year stopgap to Freeman.
Rays are now front runners on Soriano according to Fox Sports.
Braves are telling teams they will eat $ on Lowe’s contract, per Jayson Stark.
Tracy Ringolsby of FOX Sports suggests the Rays are the frontrunner for Soriano, assuming they’ll expand their payroll to fit him in.
December 9th, 20094:28 pm
Well, Richard, some of our astute bloggers believe a middle relief role for Soriano will diminish his closer value and, therefore, “punish” his career path as a top closer. That this would also “punish” the Braves by using precious millions in middle relief is yet another facet to this interesting plan put forth by some of our out-of-the-box thinkers.
Me, I just enjoy seeing lots and lots of question marks after a question.
Keppinger’s awesome. If his salary is still under a million, that would be a great move. Unless you prefer Brooks Conrad …
N8: We’ve been repeatedly told to expect nothing back. The trade market isn’t the source of the bat for the line up and the two “best hitters” on the FA market are not targets. It leaves very little room for lofty dreams.
With that said, this team is going to destroy the opposition if it can field Byrd and Cameron. Those guys were the missing pieces last year. Not a doubt in my mind.
December 9th, 20094:29 pm
Chief: Your probably right but I can think of a million big time signings where their production did drop off. Just look around the league. Oliver Perez for $12 million doesnt look very good. Teams are thinking twice now before going to 4 years and especially 5 and 6 years, that is a long time.
I was just responding to rammerjammer suggesting that people want to punish Soriano by making him pitch middle relief. He’ll pitch wherever they tell him and smile all the way to the bank. He would definitely pitch the seventh or eighth if we kept him.
His “well thought out” post is for a lack of a better word “stupid”.
December 9th, 20094:30 pm
Rays lead the pack. Wren drives a hard bargain: Longoria plus cash for Soriano.
Braves are telling teams they’ll eat $ on Derek Lowe. Optimistic they can move him as an attractive Plan B for teams that don’t sign Lackey.- from Jayson Stark
Good. Eat some money and get a better return. I’d have the same strategy for Soriano. Send over 2-3 million for a better prospect. Wishful thinking on my part, but it’d be nice. And even small market teams like Cleveland do it when they sent Casey Blake to the Dodgers and ate all of his salary. That got them elite catching prospect Carlos Santana.
December 9th, 20094:31 pm
old45, i am pretty sure KK’s salary is for like 6.5 the next two years and soriano i guess 7 or 8. so even going high on both would only be equal to lowe. plus, lowe is for three years and KK is for two, soriano for one.
Jimmy Joe – something tells me the Braves weren’t interested in an $8 mil. setup man.
Byrnes would make it so the DBacks would actually want to pull the trigger. Also if Byrnes could return to his 07 form then it would really be a great deal. Crawford – LF, McLouth – CF and Byrnes – RF would be a nice OF and if Byrnes doesn’t perform then we bring up Heyward to replace him.
Rays lead the pack. Wren drives a hard bargain: Longoria plus cash for Soriano
That was hilarious.
December 9th, 20094:33 pm
BTW, for 6-8 mil, I’d happily pitch middle relief, and allow Bobby to remain in tip-top shape by using me as a punching-bag between innings…
Oh god, we shouldn’t start telling anyone that…thats a bad plan!
jaysonstark: More on Lowe: Braves no longer asking for veteran bats. Would take prospect(s) and presumably use $ saved to sign a free-agent bat
TenPaul covering Item #4 of my 4:05 post. Thanks, dude. Hilarious, as Efrim said.
December 9th, 20094:34 pm
Chief Macon, Take a deep breath and relax….Wren has everything under control. He’s cool and know exactly what he’s doing. No to Bay.
Pena HE!! Yes! ……………… Baseball Hot line next on ESPN 2
Jayson Stark: Braves are telling teams they’ll eat $ on Derek Lowe. Optimistic they can move him as an attractive Plan B for teams that don’t sign Lackey.
I just hope we don’t end up with another Garret Anderson. Don’t get me wrong, the guy played his heart out for us and made contributions. However, he was an aging shell of the player he was in his prime. Personally, i’d rather go too young than too old. At least the young guy is probably going to improve as time passes. The old guy is just going to get fatigued.
December 9th, 20094:35 pm
And TenPaul at 4:28…equally funny.
“Rays lead the pack. Wren drives a hard bargain: Longoria plus cash for Soriano.”
LOL! Only if the Rays kick in some cash!
December 9th, 20094:36 pm
I don’t think the Braves moving their stance on the return for Lowe is going to change much. I most always expected prospects back in a deal like that. Worst case scenario, another bad contract, although I don’t think it will come to that.
December 9th, 20094:37 pm
Soriano close to being traded to the Rays:
The Rays should also kick in some lard for the Chik fil A Cow’s chopping arm as well.
December 9th, 20094:38 pm
Soriano and Freeman for Crawford would be great for both teams.
Crawford would give the Braves a legit lead off guy and a great LF. The Rays would get a closer and a 1B of the future in Freeman.
eat 5 mill?
Rob - in pain (from SC)
Did the Braves ever discuss a contract extension with Soriano or Gonzalez
December 9th, 20094:39 pm
P-Town why in the world would we want Eric Byrnes[?]
Can’t help ya there, pal…
I don’t think Lowe is a bad contract, the Braves needs just changed. I’d still take him over Lackey and people are talking Lackey in the $18/yr/100million range.
There’s a reason that it seems every trade proposal on this board contains us shipping Jordan S.
A lack of baseball reasoning skills?
You’re doing that just to irritate me, aren’t you, LOL?
December 9th, 20094:40 pm
Jay212033: ask yourself at all who would be the BRAVES first baseman of the future in that scenario? We don’t have a 1b on the ML roster AT ALL, and you want to trade our future 1B for a left-fielder in the last year of his contract?
How’s the PT coming along?
Now Braves related stuff is starting to move forward. I think Soriano will be traded tonight,. as for Lowe, if Wren is no longer asking specifically fora veteran bat, then that must lead us to beleive he is working on either a 1B/OF or both via the free-agent market or by other trade means.
December 9th, 20094:41 pm
Did anyone actually think it was possible that the Braves would be able to trade Lowe without eating a significant amount of his salary? If so, did they comment from an sanitarium? Is Jayson Stark a master of the obvious? I think he is.
. @ 4:34
Seriously??? I’m supposed to take a comment from “.” serious???
Thanks for the tip though… I feel much better now that I have taken a breath…
What – are you on crack or something???
It’s not my money, but I wish Wren would talk Liberty Media into coughing up a little more payroll- just enough to hang on to Soriano till mid year. If we can’t get much value for Soriano now, I’ll bet its a different story in July.
In the mean time, you have insurance against the possibility of Wagner or Saito becoming injured or ineffective. And if everyone’s effective, you have one hell of a bullpen until the break.
Given that this is Bobby’s last year, there’s likely going to be some extra media hoopla around the Braves this season, especially if they are playing well and in the hunt. If Liberty was ever going to spend a little extra in order to boost the value of their investment, I think this would be the time to do it. $4M well spent, seems to me.
“Macon Braves (RIP)
we have to just accept the facts right now that the Braves aren’t owned by Ted Turner anymore and won’t spend like that as long as they are corporatly owned.”
Corporations, good ones anyway, look at long term value growth not short term. The Braves are a multiple year investment by Liberty, with an aim to sell at a profit in a couple of years. Sometime soon they will need to start seeing an attendance increase so that when they sell they are selling a franchise with a positive growth trend. As of today the trend is negative and the franchise would be sold at a loss.
well looks like the astros may get lindstrom
3:29pm: Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the Astros are close on Lindstrom – swapping medicals.
Welcome, McFann. Better turn around and leave quickly while you still have your sanity. The ignorance and sheer madness here today is twice as thick as it is on a normal day.
December 9th, 20094:42 pm
I think as long as Lackey & Halladay are out there, it makes moving D-Lowe a little harder.
If Stark’s comments on Lowe are correct, I say good move by Wren. Make Lowe more attractive so he can be moved more quickly, then focus on figuring out the offensive side of the house.
How much cash do you think the Braves will have to eat over the next three seasons of Lowe’s deal?
December 9th, 20094:43 pm
WEDNESDAY, 3:33pm: ESPN’s Jayson Stark tweets that the Braves are no longer asking for veteran bats for Lowe, and are telling teams they’ll eat money.
December 9th, 20094:44 pm
Wayne in Utah’
NOT getting any older!
The ignorance and sheer madness here today is twice as thick as it is on a normal day.
Thanks, Hillbilly. I believed I was the only person who thought he had
fallen into an in-game-blog time-warp.
I’m not quite as confident Braves will get Soriano deal done before they leave here tomorrow, but I’d still bet they do if I had to go one way or the other.
Problem is, other teams so far refuse to give up the level of player the Braves want back for Soriano, not when that team is also paying Soriano’s entire salary. And Braves have no intention of paying part of Soriano’s salary.
So I’d guess that a deal gets down when either the Braves relent on the type of talent they want back in the trade, and agree to take a lesser prospect or backup player or whatever, or one of the other teams suddenly feels a sense of urgency for whatever reason to get Soriano.
Right now, teams don’t feel a sense of urgency to get him as their closer, I’d imagine.
Wouldn’t you take the more reliable/inning eater in Lowe at $15 million and less years over more years and $18 million for Lackey.
December 9th, 20094:45 pm
That depends entirely on what they expect back, and who they end up dealing him to. Anywhere from zip to 6 million total.
Howdy, Hillbilly! Haha, nah, it’s OK–I lost my sanity years ago!
Right now I’m just bored out of my mind and wondering what’s up with Soriano…
Fire Frank Wren NOW!
December 9th, 20094:46 pm
By the Way….
Does anyone else remember DOB adamantly stating that Derek Lowe would NOT be able to be traded???
Chief Macon, Take a deep breath and relax
LOL, I didn’t realize we had gotten that worked up. I haven’t even broke out in a sweat over here!
December 9th, 20094:47 pm
Wren said the process of trading a starting pitcher (he doesn’t say who, but we know that to be Lowe) is only in the “beginning stages. I really don’t think we’re going to have resolution on that until some of the bigger [free agent starting] pitchers sign and we see where we stand.”
Who really knows if Freeman will pan out or not. If you read my previous post Coner Jackson would be the Braves 1B for the next 2 or so years.
December 9th, 20094:48 pm
T-Paul, I actually agree with you on Cameron. If Lowe and Soriano can be moved, and Wren simply puts Cameron in CF (moving McLouth to RF), and signs LaRoche. Essentially giving us the same lineup that led us to the dominant record after June 28th.
We’d be replacing Loaf with Cameron (upgrade slightly in power – NIGHT AND DAY upgrade defensively), swapping Saito and Wagner over Soriano and Gonzo (risky, but likely to net the same results), and Hudson over Lowe. If Hudson’s arm holds up, no doubt in my mind it’s a wash (at worst), with the chance to be an upgrade.
Add to that we’d have McLouth and Prado in the lineup, along with Hanson in the rotation from day one.
So, I’m with you. As I’ve stated for weeks. No big bold moves are necessary. I just have that sneaking suspicion that Wren has a big/bold move up his sleeve. Always have felt that way.
Which is where the Carlos Pena thing comes in. Maybe it starts off as Soriano for mid-level prospect. But perhaps it could grow to a 3-4 player mini-blockbuster, with many moving parts? Hard to say.
I just think that if Wren is going to make a trade for a bat, it’s going to end up being a move that hasn’t been thought of or discussed.
If you look at our last two moves he’s made in terms of trades (LaRoche and McLouth), there wasn’t WORD ONE about either of those moves being a possibility until they were already pretty much a done deal.
I think Wren learned his lesson last year, and is staying as far under the radar as possible.
Just my thoughts.
December 9th, 20094:49 pm
We can always count on a certain tone to the posts of one or two particular occasional drop-in bloggers, can’t we? Couple of fellas who are sort of focused on yours truly, rather than the team or anything else we discuss here? Yeah, those guys. Just sayin’ (and that’s so tired, by the way. Just sayin’.)
DOB: do you think the Braves will add bats before trading D-Lowe?
You, my friend, are the winner! Your prize is a deluxe dinner for two at the place of my choice. You just gotta come on our to Utah to get it. Take your time, the prize is good until next Sunday!
Thanks for playing!
December 9th, 20094:50 pm
It’s days like this that I sure miss Bubdylan. That dude could always coax a smile out of the residents of Pandemonium.
December 9th, 20094:51 pm
DOB, why not a package deal to trade Soriano?
Who do the Rays have that we would want? Besides Crawford and Upton, which aint gonna happen.
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