12:15 pm December 9, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 10th, 200912:10 pm
And thanks so much for telling me my talent is God Given. Like your thoughts on offense, I hadn’t thought of that one.
Not to nitpick or anything, but I have to ask…
Why didn’t we try and get a bench bat instead of another bullpen arm?
December 10th, 200912:11 pm
If the Padres are even remotely open to moving Adrian Wren has to jump on this IMHO. He can also balk at the asking price but he has to make an offer given Adrian’s contract and 4 hole power.
December 10th, 200912:12 pm
Nah, HIllbilly’s only on The Dark Side of the Moon, not some little room.
December 10th, 200912:13 pm
“What is a “Dodget”?”
I believe it is a small Dodge.
Fair enough, rico. I digress.
Can we get some sisters on the team? I bet Serena and Venus could help the club out with their swings as well as serving it up at an average of 115 mph.
December 10th, 200912:14 pm
One of the unwritten rules: “You can’t have enough pitching.”
Bench bats will be all over the place when the non-tender deadline passes.
“Not to nitpick or anything, but I have to ask…
Why didn’t we try and get a bench bat instead of another bullpen arm?”
Maybe we did try. Who knows?
December 10th, 200912:15 pm
The Williams sisters are truly power hitters, but would they pass a steroid test?
I’ve always been mad. I know I’ve been mad. Like the most of us are. Very hard to explain why your mad, even if you’re not mad.
Sister Sledge. They led the 79 Pirates to a World Series Championship.
It don’t add up: It does add up, I will list below the 21 players currently under contract or arb eligible (estimates for these players) that would be on the 25 man roster if the season started today (obviously we could all argue all day about the other four spots)…
Now subtract Lowe and Johnson, and you have $70+million committed to 19 players. With $92million payroll, that is $22million to spend. Sorry for the lack of formatting.
December 10th, 200912:16 pm
Durable 400k guys with 94-98 MPH fastballs and plus-plus change-ups don’t grow on trees. I’m not getting all the handwringing…
Thank you, wjones. Apparently the Braves have 39+ of them. Maybe they should sell them to earn some money to help add to the payroll.
December 10th, 200912:17 pm
They said Rays and Soriano have agreed to terms. All that is left is waiting on medical records to be exchanged.
The deal is for about $7 Mill or so.
Charlie Sheen and Emelio Estevez- There’s no way they could find trouble in Atlanta. Sign ‘em up, Braves and satisfy the fans cries for more “brothers”
December 10th, 200912:18 pm
No short-term make-good contract for Rick Ankiel. One club exec says Scott Boras wants 3 years and “big money” for Ankiel. — VP
Yeah, but Boras also “wants” four years for Johnny Damon. Even Boras doesn’t always get what he wants. (Though he’s certainly more likely to get three years and big money for Ankiel than four years for Damon.)
December 10th, 200912:19 pm
Add to Bobby’s post — it is only December 10th. This team is taking shape just fine. Guys (and girls) we have until April. The Braves have done more than ANY OTHER team so far; this is now the time to be patient while other teams start to panic. This could be a really good spring, but it’s not even the first day of WINTER yet.
Haha, three years for Ankiel is a joke. No way we need him blocking Heyward, Schafer, etc.
December 10th, 200912:20 pm
Greatest T-shirt ever: Johnny Damon: Looks like Jesus, throws like Mary” Saw that one in Boston. Four years?
All things considered, I give the bullpen moves a C.
The majority, but not all, of the experts had Soriano ranked ahead of Wagner. Had Wren really had his finger on the pulse of the market and not signed Wagner prior to finding out if Soriano accepted arbitration, then we would have a better bullpen today and more importantly would still have the #19 pick in the draft. Wren simply guessed wrong. You or I can guess wrong and it’s ok, but Wren is paid big money to figure these things out. He obviously misread the market in this case.
Wren was trying to be slick with signing Wagner/Saito so early, got his bluff called, and now has a slightly worse bullpen and lost the #19 pick.
The reason I give this a C as opposed to a F is that at least we came out of this with a very good bullpen, if healthy. I think bullpen is the least important part of a team, especially a team with great and durable starting pitching, which we have. It’s just not a good use of resources to spend 10M on bullpen arms when your team has
I can’t give him a grade of B though, is because we already had a lot of bullpen arms that are perfectly servicable for 8th inning roles. We only needed 1 closer type arm, and we signed 2. That’s a waste of money that could have gone to getting a bat at some point.
December 10th, 200912:21 pm
Lew – once to the 900th power is still one (LOL)
Wayne in Utah
VP and DOB
When has Boras ever NOT wanted multiple years and big money for all of his clients.
If bullsheet was money, Boras would have enough to clear the entire national debt!
December 10th, 200912:22 pm
From MLBTR (Fox Rosenthal)
Most notably, major-league sources said they are (again) exploring an Adrian Gonzalez trade with the Padres, renewing a pursuit that began prior to the July non-waiver trade deadline.
While some in the industry question whether Jed Hoyer would want to trade Gonzalez in his first major transaction as the new San Diego general manager, one source said Thursday that the slugging first baseman “could be had in the right deal.”
rays pay soriano 1yr 7 million
December 10th, 200912:23 pm
Hillbilly-Hey no one would believe us f we tried to claim we weren’t mad. Travis sure thinks I am. Maybe I’d better set those controls for the heart of the sun.
December 10th, 200912:24 pm
Lew…If the posts on here weren’t about the obvious things the fans would like to see happen then what would be said. I have read your posts several times and everything you blog hasn’t happened yet so I guess you are recommending solutions that the Braves obviously need. Like offense. So obviously what you posted meant what my post meant. Nothing.
December 10th, 200912:25 pm
soriano gets 1yr and 7million from rays non guranteed
dgd (December 10th, 2009 11:36 am): “I agree that Wagner, Saito and Chavez, plus payroll savings for Gonzo and Soriano isn’t bad (though I remain unconvinced that Wagner and Saito will hold up the way Bobby over-uses his top bullpen arms [a different, unrelated (but real) problem regardless of the pitchers involved]) but they’ve already lost their 1st round draft pick (#20) with signing Wagner, and may get another team’s second round, not first round [don't know that yet -- it's too soon to say], pick from whoever Gonzo signs with (plus the supplemental). I’d say the draft pick scenario is at best a wash and if it’s a second rounder they get for Gonzo, actually a step back draft wise as they’d be without a true first rounder…”
That may all be true, but it would have been true regardless of whether the Braves had offered Soriano arbitration or not. (I’m not disputing with you on the Gonzalez/Wagner draft pick wash.)
But isolating on the Soriano issue, the Braves could have received nothing for him, two 2nd round amateur draft picks or Jesse Chavez, an already developed ML level pitcher with definite upside — mid 90s fastball and killer change-up.
I’m not sure that, given their choice of all three, the Braves wouldn’t have gone with Chavez anyway.
“While some in the industry question whether Jed Hoyer would want to trade Gonzalez in his first major transaction as the new San Diego general manager, one source said Thursday that the slugging first baseman “could be had in the right deal.””
So could the team trading for him, if they aren’t careful.
December 10th, 200912:26 pm
raleigh bravefan-I said once or twicend twice to the 900th power must be a few more than one?
WTF, I’m an artist, not a mathmetician. Even Travis thinks I’m pretty good at that.
DOB do you think the braves are gonna wait till they trade lowe to go after a bat
Manny Acosta has a live arm, but he sucks like Chavez, and I wouldn’t be happy trading Soriano for Manny Acosta. Justify it all you want. This is a joke. They’re not really trying to win.
Chris from the Rock
Speaking of brothers, sign the Alou brothers to man the OF!
December 10th, 200912:27 pm
Travis-Dude, keep ranting. Someone may listen to you if you try hard enough.
December 10th, 200912:28 pm
“Manny Acosta has a live arm, but he sucks like Chavez”
Chavez also has a plus-plus chang-up. That makes him much different than Acosta. Also he doesn’t quite have the walksies that Acosta has but still needs to reduce his HR rate.
Now that Frank has survived and actually won in “Sorianogate” at the winter meetings, do you believe he will feel compelled to deal a hurler before making any moves towards filling the 1B/OF need(s)?
I hear that many are talking up Mike Jacobs as a possible bench option. I don’t have all my windows open, so I can’t check his defensive numbers. Does he play other positions? How well does he play first? I think he is lefthanded, but not sure.
Would he be a platoon guy for first? I am not seeing the fit here.
How about the Allman Brothers -even with Duane out of the picture, they’re still one hell of a group of Brothers.
December 10th, 200912:29 pm
December 10th, 200912:30 pm
How ’bout the Wilson Brothers? (Owen and Luke) Their pretty funny guys…will definitel increase the revenue too with all the ladies coming to see Owen every night. With the extra revenue we might be able to sign that power hitter afterall.
Ryan in TN
DOB, regarding your 11:50 post about the Isleys and Bros. Johnson, another good group and tune was Confunkshun’s Love’s Train, and Lakeside’s Slide.
December 10th, 200912:31 pm
I’d better leave while Travis feels he has attained relevance. Wouldn’t want to damage his unimaginative ego. Later.
Looks like deja vu all over again.
It is clear that you just don’t get it.
Their = They’re
December 10th, 200912:32 pm
Thank you Mr. Wren. There’s 5,6 or 7 blown saves “out the door.” Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know he only had 4 last year, so what? I saw more coming.
Pack your bags Derek, hopefully, you’re next pal. Lets clean this house!
Nova Scotia Steve - #40
ugaaccount: “All things considered, I give the bullpen moves a C.”
I agree…if not lower. Risky signings…our bullpen could be really good or a complete disaster.
There’s no room with this bullpen for mediocre….
Anyone know how old Saito is?
Lew…I really enjoyed…Hope you did.
December 10th, 200912:33 pm
How about the Owings brothers? We have Jon Mark in the minors, and we could send somebody over to Cincinnati to get Micah.
Heck, maybe Micah is the answer for left field!
I have tried to make that point a few times, but nobody takes me serious on it. Can he catch the ball? Have his brother teach him some fundamentals on OF play.
December 10th, 200912:34 pm
The Rays could have signed Saito. The Rays could have signed Wagner. They passed on both. Didn’t put up much of a fight for either.
But the Rays wanted Soriano for just a little more money than Wagner wanted, and probably at about the price Wagner would have gotten if the Rays or anyone had put up any kind of competitive fight for Wagner’s services and inflated his price.
Why is that? Oh, that’s right. The Rays are better, and they’re trying to win, instead of trying to be marginally competitive for the sake of being marginally profitable like the Braves.
Even a team with a tighter budget than the Braves saw the wisdom of Soriano at that price, and the folly of Wagner and Saito at their price. But, hey, Chavez, has a live arm. Time to barf
How about the ‘Blues Brothers’ a combination of Bob Wickman and Dan Kolb.
December 10th, 200912:35 pm
Of course twice to the 900th is a lot more than 1. I was joking anyway (lighten up)
You did say either or so I picked one.
December 10th, 200912:37 pm
Manny Acosta has a live arm, but he sucks like Chavez, and I wouldn’t be happy trading Soriano for Manny Acosta. Justify it all you want. This is a joke. They’re not really trying to win
Until Chavez is in the Braves’ system, handed the ball, and actually performs – you (and no one else for that matter) has any clue if he is the second coming of Acosta. Lets see the kid pitch before declaring he’s dead weight.
Also, even if Soriano was rated higher than Wagner (in terms of available FA relief pitchers), I’m not convinced by any stretch of the imagination that Soriano will have a better year than Wagner in 2010. (1) Relief pitchers’ numbers can fluctuate pretty dramatically from year to year. Granted, elite bullpen arms (which I suppose includes Wagner and Soriano) are more consistent, but there is no guarantee. (2) While Wagner is older and recently had TJ surgery, Soriano ain’t no picture of perfect health. I won’t be surprised if both Wagner and Soriano miss time next season to injuries/fatigue.
December 10th, 200912:38 pm
They didn’t trade Soriano for Acosta. they traded him for Wagner, and got Chavez as a bonus.
Hey, 40 ain’t old. (well, maybe in baseball, it might be getting up there)
I think it is interesting how some guys age gracefully and others like “hit a wall” somewhere after 35ish. Or in Andruw Jones’ case, at around 30ish.
There just seems to be some guys who are in good shape, and can go into their 40’s easier than others.
While I was never great at any sports, I was always a very good sprinter. At around 48, something in my body changed. Whatever it was that I had was frickin GONE. Never to return.
Getting older is not for wimps.
December 10th, 200912:39 pm
Salamander, consider changing your name to Rubber Stamp. It would fit your personality better
December 10th, 200912:40 pm
I know… the McEnroe brothers…. Would love to see John react when he rips a liner down the line and the ump calls it out…
“YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS!!!!!!”
Now that would be great.
Well, somebody has to say it. How about the Jonas Brothers?
Since so many on the blog seems to think Wren’s moves have been worthless, won’t they fit in nicely?
wayne, jacobs is just a 1st baseman, and not really a whiz over there. his career splits say he is quite a bit better vs. righthanders.
for me, it seems like he would be good for the braves in a greg norton role. bat off the bench, and backup 1st baseman. the braves certainly have bigger fish to fry, but i wouldnt mind jacobs if he wasnt THE 1st baseman.
TG from CA
“Why is that? Oh, that’s right. The Rays are better, and they’re trying to win, instead of trying to be marginally competitive for the sake of being marginally profitable like the Braves”
Uumm…Braves won more games last year than the Rays…..maybe because we are “smarter”?
December 10th, 200912:41 pm
Damon > Ankiel
They didn’t trade Soriano for Acosta. they traded him for Wagner, and got Chavez as a bonus. (raleighbravefan)
You’re right. 38 year olds coming off Tommy John versus a pitcher in his prime. Really smart play. Chavez a bonus? When you find gum under the table, do you consider that a bonus as well?
December 10th, 200912:42 pm
Wayne in Utah: Hey, 40 ain’t old. (well, maybe in baseball, it might be getting up there)
Its just a running schtick, that i’m enjoying too much…I’m only joking around.
I still agree with your posting last night…Let’s give him a chance.
“Time to barf” Old 45
That bad, huh? Seriously? You’re baseball team making moves you don’t like gives you an upset stomach and makes you want to “barf”?
I’ve never thought of it that way. Next time my wife pisses me off, I’ll just yak all over the place. That’ll show her!
wayne, lets get johnny gomes from the reds instead.
December 10th, 200912:43 pm
Uumm…Braves won more games last year than the Rays…..maybe because we are “smarter”? (TG from CA)
Uuuuuummmmmmmm, moron, the Rays player in a much tougher league in a much tougher division. The Rays would have won 100 games in the NL East last season.
December 10th, 200912:44 pm
Salamander, consider changing your name to Rubber Stamp. It would fit your personality better
That addressed the content of my post? If you say so.
December 10th, 200912:46 pm
But SHE said...
Old 45, you are a moron. If you really looked into anything before shooting your mouth off you’d see that Soriano’s contract is NON-GUARANTEED. This is why the Rays preferred him. Would Wagner have signed such a deal? I think not. Most people view Soriano as something of a head case and almost as high an injury risk. If this side of Soriano shows up early enough the Rays can cut their losses and still have time to find an alternative.
Nova Scotia Steve - Saito is 40
December 10th, 200912:47 pm
What about the Malachi Brothers…They could swing the bats and chains real well…As long as Fonzie’s not pitching for the other team!
Old 45 Soriano may be in his “prime”, but has already had LOTS of arm problems, and missed LOTS of time – LOTS and LOTS!
He also was “hurt” when he didn’t feel like playing. I (and the Braves)don’t trust him and can’t rely on him. Time will tell.
December 10th, 200912:48 pm
Considering the circumstances, Frank Wren probably did the best he could with the Soriano trade. He dumped Soriano’s salary in exchange for a young reliever who 2 years away from salary arbitration.
If Wren can do something similar as far as Derek Lowe is concerned……….there is a part of me that feels that he will make a serious run at Matt Holliday. I know…….a big IF. But not out of the realm of possibility.
December 10th, 200912:49 pm
Old 45 must be a Mets fan. No one can be that dense on purpose.
December 10th, 200912:50 pm
I opt for the Gallagher Brothers…that way in mid season, one of them will blow up at the other, quit the team and clear of some roster space near the trade deadline…
How about the Wringling Brothers? You know, Barnum and Baily?
This place has been a circus, lately….
December 10th, 200912:52 pm
Paul Lentz – I agree. MAYBE Atlanta will get that “big bat”. Because I believe the Braves are going to go for the “cheap” option at 1b…like a Nady or a Jacobs, or someone in that salary range…$4-6 million.
Hey we were in on Gload and he would have got some playing time at 1b…
So i think most of our resources…once we move some salary via a starting pitcher will mainly go towards and outfielder….
Woof…So Wren came out of his shell and got us a pitcher, eh? Nice…
December 10th, 200912:54 pm
While Jacobs might be helpful, I would personally like to see that 25th guy have a tad more defensive flexibility.
But then again, what do I know anyway.
There are some basic things that you just flat out don’t get. The Braves had a pitcher named Soriano, but he filed for free agency. We offered him arbitration, with the thought that he would not take it and would move on. By taking that small chance, we thought we might get a draft choice or two.
So, now that we don’t have that player, we sign another one to replace him for less money (average Wagner and Saito’s salaries, if you will).
Oops, the player and his agent think that because of the issue of a signing team losing a draft choice, maybe they would be better taking what they thought would be more of a guaranteed cash.
No problem. We now have this guy, when we don’t want or need him. Actually, having him puts a crimp on our plans to improve our offense.
Some other teams could have signed him for a draft choice. They didn’t. Now, they can deal for him, and you think they should be willing NOW to give up a higher level prospect or someone of equal value.
In the one sense, you are right. The Braves could keep him and hold out for a much better return…….later in the spring??? or in mid season??? or never???? (if he gets hurt, we are screwed).
All the while the money’s committed to Soriano are locked up and can’t be used to improve our offense.
So, we deal him quick to get out from under the risk. Kinda like a stock deal. We have a stock that has some value, but could drop or could go up. We want to buy a different stock, but we don’t have the cash. So, we sell our interest in the original stock at cost, so as to be able to go for what we REALLY want.
What in the heck is so frickin hard to understand about this whole scenario???
Now, if you come back with your same old lame azzed argument, then all with a brain on the blog will know that you are the prime candidate for the “Your and idiot” award for the day.
Be careful, your nomination hangs in the balance here…..
December 10th, 200912:55 pm
I still would much rather have Soriano than Wagner.
December 10th, 200912:56 pm
McFann O -
Actually Mac, he’s freeing up some “big bat cash.”
Louis: I would prefer Soriano to Saito…
December 10th, 200912:57 pm
Lefty/righty splits on Chavez that I posted earlier were career. It was even more pronounced last season, when lefties hit 228 with a .288 on-base percentage against him last season, and righties hit .299 with a .356 OBP.
By the way, just talked to a Pittsburgh writer who said Chavez throws 96 mph effortlessly, and almost pointed out how most of the homers he gave up were against Milwaukee, which definitely had his number (and the Pirates in general — they had a 17-game winning streak against them over two seasons until it was snapped during 2009 season).
Chavez elevated his fastball too often against Brewers, who have hitters such as Ryan Braun who particularly like to feast on those pitches.
That can’t be the real Paul Lentz, can it?
Marc in FL
December 10th, 200912:58 pm
Soriano, Saito, Wagner, all elite relievers with injury concerns. You know you’re getting a guy with good work ethic though in Wagner and a guy that doesn’t seem to age in Saito, what off the field characteristic does Soriano have going for him? His goatee?
Well, more power to him!
December 10th, 200912:59 pm
Marc in FL: His goatee makes him look like the devil…not to mention all the fun discussion on where MFIKY originated (RHR)
December 10th, 20091:00 pm
“Uuuuuummmmmmmm, moron, the Rays player in a much tougher league in a much tougher division. The Rays would have won 100 games in the NL East last season.” old 45
Even though it’s evident you are either in your teens, or already drunk at this hour, I’ll play ball.
So, you’re telling me that the AL East (combined records of 421-389) is so far superior to the NL East (combined records of 395-415), that the 26 game difference in the ENTIRE division, would have made 16 games difference in the Rays record? Hogwash!
They went 16-20 against the Yankees and Red Sox. They held their own. 9-9 against the Sox, 7-11 against the Yankees.
Had you said they might have won 92-93 games? Believable, because they handled the NL East in interleague play pretty well.
But their record against the AL East (their division opponents) was 40-32. Are you really telling me that you honestly think they would have gone 56-16 in the NL East? Not a chance in hell.
Use your head before you call somebody else a moron.
I mentioned this the other day: Trading Derek Lowe for Milton Bradley should be explored. The Cubs are looking to dump Bradley. The Braves need offense.
I feel that this is a fair trade for both teams. The Braves take the “headache” off the Cubs hand……….the Cubs take Lowe’s salary off the Braves hands. The Cubs need starting pitching and can afford to take on Lowe’s 3 remaining years.
While Bradley can be a mental case at times, I feel that there is a chance that Bobby Cox can get the most out of him. Bobby is the kind of manager who is loyal to a fault to players he believes in.
December 10th, 20091:01 pm
Getting older is not for wimps
You got THAT right, bubba. You got to be a man with sand to deal with that bleep.
Something these youngsters may yet live to learn. Except Dentz, of course. No hope in that corner of the universe.
December 10th, 20091:03 pm
It’s been a fun day for me so far- been Christmas shopping with the wife all morning. Now she wants to go the laundromat to wash blankets. Geez
December 10th, 20091:04 pm
Yeah, I figured you were just having some fun w/ Saito’s age.
I can understand that you might prefer Soriano to Wagner. Both have blown a save or two in their careers. Both are an injury risk due to previous problems. BUT, Wagner has a longer and more consistent track record. I would prefer Wagner myself.
Astros are busy. They are close to signing Pedro Feliz to a 1 year 4 Mill deal.
I would just assume eat glass over watching Bradley take the field every day.
That is trade possibility though. The Braves, for whatever reason, want Lowe gone. They must not like his personality or something, cause all they had to do to avoid this financial crises was not resign Huddy. They’re going to have to eat 2-3 mil a year on Lowe and has to know that was a possbility. There really isn’t any reason to believe Hudson will be better next year considering the two players last 5 years of performance.
This leaves me to believe Lowe has an issue behind the scenes. I think getting even Bradley would be big, cause I see the Braves willing to unload Lowe for next to nothing at this point.
December 10th, 20091:05 pm
From a bullpen standpoint, are the Braves better off now than they were last season? They essentially have swapped Gonzo & MFIKY for Wagner, Saito & Chavez and saved maybe $2-3 million.
On talent level alone, the Braves may be slightly ahead, if Chavez proves to be an asset. But there’s no way that Wagner & Saito will be as durable as Gonzalez & Soriano. And if either/both break down, which is a distinct possibility, the team is screwed.
The Braves will likely need one more quality arm in the ‘pen, if for nothing else than to keep Cox from abusing Wagner & Saito, as he has done to just about all his late inning guys.
Either that, or he’s going to have to accept the reality that he has to use other people (Moylan, O’Flaherty, whoever) in situations that normally dictate your closer or primary set-up reliever be utilized.
Otherwise, we can expect the letters D & L to be rather prominent in discussions about the Braves’ pen next season.
One more question: How much of Lowe’s contract will be the Braves be willing to eat just so they can unload it? And will they be able to get an anything of value for him? At least, anything greater than Chavez.
December 10th, 20091:07 pm
Also, 2 more days until the deadline passes for teams to offer arbitration to players under their control.
Meaning………the fate of Kelly Johnson will finally be decided. Will the “Man Crush” that a number of bloggers have on Kelly finally come to an end? Stayed turned. I cant imagine the Braves seriously putting themselves in a position of having to pay $3 mil to Greg Norton’s protege.
December 10th, 20091:09 pm
“While Bradley can be a mental case at times, I feel that there is a chance that Bobby Cox can get the most out of him.” – Paul Lentz
I agree that he probably can get the most out of him. He was able to keep Gary Sheffield contained while he was in Atlanta, for the most part. I’m just not sure that the Braves want to take that risk, and although he could contribute a great deal, he is a bigger risk, chemistry-wise, than other available players.
Wait, we traded Soriano for a guy from NSYNC?
December 10th, 20091:10 pm
I think they are buying low on Wagner. If they are lucky it could be a steal.
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