12:15 pm December 9, 2009, by David O'Brien
D.Lowe For Who?
December 10th, 200911:03 am
Never expected anything for Soriano. My opinion was that it would have been a bad arbitration move had it cost the Braves money to move Soriano because he accepted arbitration. It would have been better to just give Soriano away to the Rays for nothing as a salary dump than to take flier on Chavez and have to pay the Rays!
And that’s why I’m relieved the Braves didn’t have to pay any of Soriano’s potential salary. I accept that. The Braves were fortunate.
But…….PLEASE don’t try and tell me when you are pizzin down my back that it’s raining! And that’s what the Braves (not DOB…. he’s just reporting the Braves take on it) are doing when they talk about how much they like this guy they are getting who rightys hit .320 against. I don’t care if he throw 120 MPH!
I think whomever posted “Braves giving up few hundred thousand dollars” meant that as Chavez’ salary compared to Soriano’s.
Is it “whomever” there?
December 10th, 200911:06 am
scoots-JJ might not be as good as Halladay the next four years, but he will certainly be a hell of a lot cheaper-way more bang for the buck might be the point he was making.
December 10th, 200911:07 am
Bobby at 10:14. Interesting. I’m thinking they don’t have 5 spots to fill on the 25 roster – just 4. With maybe $22M in hand for the task – if your estimate of a current burden of $70M is correct (after Lowe dump) AND if their payroll will be $92M. I’d be thinking:
$1M for a backup SS thru trade or FA
$1M for 4th OF/pinch hitter. But Infante will acutally be the 4th OF.
$6M for LaRoche or similar IB with some power
$14M for LF with 30 homer history
I have not studied the IB/OF FA list but it seems feasible to fill those 2 spots nicely with $20M available.
After we dump Lowe, I think those arguing for a combo of Dye, Cameron, Nady types for IB/OF are underestimating our spending power.
December 10th, 200911:08 am
“Those who claimed that Wren should have waited it out to see how the market developed are not paying attention. There is a glut of closers out there available, folks.”
If that is the case, which I agree with, then what the hell was Wren’s rush to sign Wagner before it became official that Soriano accepted/declined arbitration. If Soriano accepted, then we keep him. If he declined, then we go sign Wagner. Wren himself admitted that there was plenty a market for closers. So I don’t get why his actions didn’t match his views of the market.
I think the DiMaggio brothers are available.
December 10th, 200911:09 am
So how mucn money would we have left if we traded Lowe away for prospects? But ate 5-6 of his contract?
Phillies now taking hard look at John Smoltz as back-of-bullpen weapon. Heard Smoltz’s agent told them “no problem” w Citizens Bank Park
December 10th, 200911:10 am
The Braves should have gotten more for Soriano. The whole reason they offered him arbitration in the first place is so they could get valuable draft picks in return. So they should have at least gotten something decent for him; otherwise they should have just kept him as he would have definitely solidified the bullpen (although being somewhat pricey)… But if you want to do something for Bobby’s last season, go out with a bang..
December 10th, 200911:11 am
Ark. Transplant: Here’s something from FanGraphs about Chavez that mentions the fastball sitting between 94-96 (which is what I was told, that’s where he operates, in that range. But he’s topped out at 98)
Chavez is a right-handed reliever with a plus-plus change and velocity that sits in the 94-96 range. Thanks to that change he has a reverse platoon split, and is exceptional versus lefties. He figures to profile as a late inning reliever with the Rays, although he’s had issues with home runs which, if fixed, could really change the dynamic of his career arc. Whether that change actually occurs is up to Chavez and the Rays coaching staff to figure out….
18 Wheels of Love
December 10th, 200911:14 am
Lowe makes 15m
If we eat 5m then we would have 10m left…possibly less if the players returned were major leaguers.
December 10th, 200911:15 am
Ace: Assuming Johnson is traded/non-tendered, then only 8 (McCann, Ross, Prado, Jones, Escobar, McLouth, Diaz, Infante) position players on 25 man roster; so, that leaves 5 open spots for position players of some sort.
December 10th, 200911:16 am
Per Rosenthal: Rays negotiating with Soriano on 1-yr deal. Terms must be reached before trade is official.
Macon Braves (RIP)
So they should have at least gotten something decent for him; otherwise they should have just kept him as he would have definitely solidified the bullpen (although being somewhat pricey)
They DID get something decent for him and a middle reliever making $7 million a year is more than “somewhat pricey”.
Nova Scotia Steve - #40
What are your thought on Mike Jacobs???
I’m getting the sense Atlanta doesn’t want to spend significant salary on 1b and would prefer to spend their dollars on an OF.
Could Jacobs be a fit???
December 10th, 200911:18 am
MaineBrave: Assuming a $92million payroll, the Braves would have $17million assuming they pay $5million of Lowe’s contract.
December 10th, 200911:19 am
How ’bout the LaRoche Bros.? Oh, wait, Braves have a 3B.
Maybe Giles Bros.? No, neither can play much anymore.
Bobby, correct. So maybe spend the minimum on a roster filler like Conrad.
What is the deal with the Rosenthal tweet DOB? I thought it was official already, so if Soriano doesnt come to terms on a deal then its off and we are stuck with paying him upwards of 8 million?
way more bang for the buck might be the point he was making.
In the end, it’s still about performance. You could find 25 guys with a certain level of performance at low prices who would indeed give you bang for the buck. Trouble is, the “bang” would be more like a “pop”, and so would be the team’s record.
At some point, ability becomes more important than affordability, when weighing relative value. Lot of folks here seemed to have missed that little nugget of info. A guy makes a large (in blogger’s minds) percentage of the payroll? So what? Does he contribute proportionately to the team’s success? That’s the question to answer, not the size of his paycheck.
But, no, heavens, let’s all concentrate on semi-scrubs at low prices. That way, the same folks touting said mediocre acquisitions will have plenty of grist for in-game blather, while conveniently forgetting the voices in the December wilderness.
December 10th, 200911:20 am
Assuming we can dump $12 mil/yr. in a Lowe deal I say we go for broke. Call Heyward and Schafer ready and send Minor, Freeman, and Teheran to the Tigers for Cabrera. There’s your 1B and your slugger. Give Bobby a legit shot at a WS his last year.
I like this alternative much better than a combo of Cameron/LaRoche. Cabrera is the one scary hitter we haven’t had that changes your lineup.
VIA MLBTR.com :
Rosenthal tweets that the Rays are negotiating a one-year deal with Soriano, and terms must be reached before the trade can become official.
Al for ATL
The big thing is getting rid of Soriano’s salary. If the Braves hadn’t offered arbitration, Soriano would have walked and the Braves would have gained nothing. Now, they still avoid his salary but at least got a pitcher with a good arm who may improve in his approach under the Braves’ coaching. Not as sweet as two extra draft picks, but certainly not worth super sized moaning and groaning either.
December 10th, 200911:22 am
Homer seriously get off the blog if you have nothing but mean things to say to DOB grow up for a change!!
December 10th, 200911:23 am
“Exactly what part of “WE have the best starting staff of MLB” do you not understand?”
The part where the Braves missed the playoffs and finished in 3rd place.
However the Rosato brothers are not. Nobody knows of their whereabouts.
I’m not a fan of what the Braves are doing. They sign a closer who is coming off major surgery, who is also near retirement. They sign a set up man that is near retirement. Soriano was not that bad. I am willing to bet he has a better season then Wagner. Soriano in his prime is better than Wagner near retirement. We could have kept Soriano at closer for less money. Also, everybody is talking about our huge payroll at pitcher. I like him, but why did we resign Hudson. We are not going to be able to trade Lowe for much of anything and I don’t think we can get equal value for Vazquez. If we have to trade Vazquez, I don’t feel nearly as good about our pitching staff. I can already see it. We are going to trade a pitcher for a slightly above average player at first or in the OF. I am willing to bet that the player will be on the downside of his career. We will then fill the remaining holes with veterans who are having trouble elsewhere. I love the Braves and I realize I am being negative, but aside from trading for Vazquez and McClouth and LaRoche, I am not even slightly excited about Wren’s moves. The Lowe signing is the biggest problem.
Ace: I agree the Braves will probably go cheap with at least 1 or 2 of the 5 spots. I was really just hoping to updated everyone on the Braves current payroll and roster standing.
December 10th, 200911:24 am
O.J., who said Braves “weren’t participating” in Rule 5 draft? They didn’t take anyone, but Wren and Co. were there for the draft. We talked to him afterward, then they left for the airport and a 1:30 flight home….
Oh, and no surprise who plucked Osuna from Braves in Rule 5 — Kansas City.
December 10th, 200911:25 am
Braves wouldn’t comment on the Soriano trade until after it’s official.
I was very glad to hear DOB say that the Braves value Chavez as more than a throw-in player. Sounds like he’s got a very live arm and may be major asset it the pen.
Home of the Braves
December 10th, 200911:26 am
Well you gotta assume Heyward or Schafer is on that list. We’ll pick up a veteran bench bat somewhere. We’ll probably resign Roachy later in the off-season for cheaper since he hasn’t had too much interest yet. That leaves a left fielder and probably another utility guy.
Homer!, Homer!, Homer!
December 10th, 200911:28 am
Anyone remember when Chavez struck out the side against us on June 8th? Dude’s got talent. 94 MPH FB which he can gas to 98 with a plus-plus change and slider. IF, with more MLB experience, he can make right handers respect the slider more and find a way to cut down on his HR rate, he has a good shot to be a pretty nice late innings reliever.
18; “If we eat 5m then we would have 10m left…possibly less if the players returned were major leaguers.
But we let go of soriano, which was 6-8 million, where does that come into play.?
December 10th, 200911:29 am
Chavez is at the very least “decent.” Notice who he has been traded for over the years. I’m sure Wren would rather have the draft picks, too, but when that option was TAKEN AWAY, he got the best player he could get without having to contribute anything to Soriano’s contract.
December 10th, 200911:30 am
Chavez is beginning to sound a bit like Soriano-light for $7 million bucks less. I’m ready to chalk this up as a win for FW.
The Flying Burrito Brothers might fit into the Braves budget.
December 10th, 200911:31 am
Oh, DOB, I thought there were full on the 40 man and that they couldnt participate.
December 10th, 200911:32 am
MaineBrave: If they eat $5million of Lowe and do not acquire salary in the trade, then they have $17million to spend assuming $92million payroll.
another thing people seem to be missing about the Soriano deal is the fact that since they aren’t having to pay any of whatever his 2010 salary will be, they now have more flexibility to potentially eat more of Lowe’s contract, which would in turn net them a higher return in whatever trade they make with him
December 10th, 200911:34 am
Homer is even less original than Robert. That’s saying a lot.
Wren has flown the coop
Wren traded Soriano for A RELIEVER??!! Dude, we don’t need any more pitchers! Unless you plan on trading Chavez, this is going to be yet another time when the Braves will eventually end up with nothing.
December 10th, 200911:35 am
Boy it would be nice to have all of that Kawakami money back…..
17 million can get a LOT doe.
December 10th, 200911:36 am
We better get this Soriano deal official quick! Before he sneezes and fails his physical because “he don’t feel good”. LOL
done*, pardon me.
Random–I agree that Wagner, Saito and Chavez, plus payroll savings for Gonzo and Soriano isn’t bad (though I remain unconvinced that Wagner and Saito will hold up the way Bobby over-uses his top bullpen arms) but they’ve already lost their 1st round draft pick (#20) with signing Wagner, and may get another team’s second round, not first round, pick from whoever Gonzo signs with (plus the supplemental). I’d say the draft pick scenario is at best a wash and if it’s a second rounder they get for Gonzo, actually a step back draft wise as they’d be without a true first rounder…
December 10th, 200911:38 am
“Andy and Adam LaRoach would be some helpfull brothers to have. Andy can spell Chipper at 3B.” Marko
I actually have trouble with that.
Chyper it 4D…… see what I mean?
So. You’re right. For any spelling pickle the Braves might get into, Andy LaRoche sounds like a good guy to have around.
Wren has flown the coop: I think Chavez will be in the bullpen opening day along with Medlen, O’Flaherty, Moylan, Saito, and Wagner. That still leaves a bullpen job open (assuming Lowe is traded and Kawakami is moved back to the rotation).
Of course the Braves would say they value him more than a throw in… the numbers don’t show that whatsoever.
December 10th, 200911:39 am
If we don’t get a first rounder in the draft, that is pretty sad
It’s funny what a year does.
* Soriano had the 1 solid year last year. Before that, was an injury prone reliever who hadn’t proven himself and couldn’t be trusted.
* Vasquez had a career year. Before that, was a consistant high strikeout pitcher that would give up 3-5 runs/game and went kind of unnoticed when the Braves signed him last year. Fans called him a good 4th starter.
* Lowe had a few bad games which led to him having a somewhat off year. Last year offseason, he was viewed as the Ace of the staff.
* Wagner missed most of last year with an injury that fully healed and is known to fully heal. He’s 37. How old is Mariano Rivera? Wagner has been one of the top/most consistant closers for his whole career. He should really not even be a question mark for the Braves for next year.
Chipper and Laroche
17 million can get a LOT doe
We just need a shotty on the Double Dime.
December 10th, 200911:40 am
At least Chavez is durable. You know Bobby is going to burn through the bullpen arms and the guy had 73 apperances for Pittsburg so he should be able to be available unlike Soriano.
MaineBrave…my bad, thought you were just talking about Lowe.
How about the Drews? Weren’t there like 12 of them in the bigs?
Voice from the past...
December 10th, 200911:41 am
This blog can be very entertaining…
December 10th, 200911:42 am
oh yeah, steven and jd drew is a good combo.
December 10th, 200911:43 am
PMC, or is it PMS?
Dude, lighten up!
You are a bigger downer than Charlie the Unicorn! (obscure youtube reference)
December 10th, 200911:45 am
I vote for the Super Mario Brothers…
December 10th, 200911:46 am
ChipCHop: remember when J.D. for the Braves?
December 10th, 200911:47 am
How ’bout the Brothers Grimm? They would look good in Atlanta, huh?
Good start to the offseason.
Reinforced the Bullpen with 3 arms and no 10M guaranteed.
Non tendered Chruch and dumped Soriano’s salary. Which saved us about 3M (not counting Sorianos 7-8M bc the braves were never planning on that being apart of their budget anyway. Its more like talking your way out of big speeding ticket than actually saving money.)
Next on the list. Dump KJ and Lowe. I wouldn’t mind another young arm for KJ in the Stephen Marek range. I would take anything for Lowe to be out of that 3/45M contract. My goal would be to try and recover the 2nd round talent I gave up to sign him since he was a Type A FA. A young kid in A ball with a projectability would be nice.
Then onto FAs. As **Bobby** pointed out getting rid of Lowe and KJ would give us 25M to fill 1B, A fulltime OF, platoon OF, and 2 utility IFs.
For the Platoon OF position i really like Rick Ankiel. A great arm and pretty good range make him a huge upgrade to both Anderson and Church plus having him on the roster gives us a backup to CF.
Ankiel had an off year last year after injuring himself in a bad wall collision but still slugged .417 against righties last year with 28 extra base hits in 278 ABs including 11 HRs.
The year before he put 18 HRs and 36 extra base hits in 297 ABs against righties while puttin up an immpressive line of .279/.362/.521 and an OPS of .891
I think the braves could sign him at a 2yr/ 10M. At 5M a year he can provide good D and at the least a great platoon player. With the chance he turns into more.
That being said he is represented by Boras and could demand more for his client at which point he is no longer the right choice for ATL. You never know though Boras could sign a a 1 or 2 year deal in the hopes his client proves last year was a fluke. Ankiel is only 30 and still has time for a big payday if he cane prove he is worth it.
Depending on the route the Braves want to go Scott Posednik and his 30SB from last year would also be an option that wouldnt break the bank.
After them I would look at everyone else we have talked about with Nady at the top of the list followed closely by Cameron.
For 1B I would look at the Usual names Delgado, Laroche
The two utility IF:
I would target Chad Tracy depending on his contract demands. I like his XP at 1B and 3B especially if we sign someone like Delgado.
what about Khalil Greene?
Great D and has an upside play to him.
After the past 2 seasons his contract demands cant be that high. Tracy and Greene would be pricey but with 25M and no Bigtime FA we could make it work.
speaking of jd drew, the guy very quietly had another excellent year for the red sox, OPSing .914. i think partly because of his personality he is an extremely underrated player.
December 10th, 200911:49 am
scoots-Dude, we’re not talking about low priced scrubs when the discussion is about Jurrjens. Dude has won 30 games in his two years (with a less than great team) and threw up a magnificent ERA last year (I think the fourth best in the league?) and was damned good in a huge percentage of his starts. Is he an ACE yet? Who knows what that even is. Is he better than Halladay? Probably not. But if I had a choice between an up and coming young pitcher making around half a mil or Halladay at the (likely) $20 mil per he will be making with a contract extension, then give me Jurrjens every time and I’ll find a way to spend the cash in a more appropriate manner to better the team.
Last season, Halladay won 17 games with an ERA of 2.79, pitching 239 Innings, while making $14.25 million. Jurrjens won 14 with an ERA of 2.60 and 215 IP while making the ML minimum (or damned close to it). Like I said-more bang for the buck.
That was an awfully expensive 3 wins and 24 IP, IMO..
December 10th, 200911:50 am
Wren has flown the coop……
We normaly carry 7 relivers. We got someone that could fill a role. Wagner, Saito, Moylan, O’Flarrity, Medlen, Chavez, Logan, Valdez. At least we have options in the Pen and the starting rotation now. We were not going to get a starting position player from anyone so a bullpen guy was the best value player. He will likely start the season in the majors. Any POS player we would have gotten would have been a mid level minor leaguer that we would have never heard of again. Also Chavez has some up side.
Stuart (December 10th, 2009 11:10 am): “The Braves should have gotten more for Soriano. The whole reason they offered him arbitration in the first place is so they could get valuable draft picks in return. So they should have at least gotten something decent for him;”
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. A fully devloped ML pitcher is worth more than two “valuable” amateur draft picks.
“otherwise they should have just kept him as he would have definitely solidified the bullpen (although being somewhat pricey)…”
Keeping Soriano was never an option given the way the Braves are structuring their payroll and its limitations.
(And keeping all their SPs “would have definitely solidified” the rotation. You know that that’s not an option, either, right?)
The Isley Brothers. “It’s Your Thing,” “That Lady” … I’m going Isley Brothers.
Or the Brothers Johnson. “Get The Funk Out Ma Face,” “I’ll Be Good To You” … oh, that’s good.
December 10th, 200911:52 am
Indeed it can be, Raisins. A virtual den of iniquity, absurdity, futility, and intellect all rolled into one.
Looks like a good trade, fiscally speaking. Some who would surely make 7+ million dollars for someone making less than $500K. This was a salary dump and given the position the Braves were in, they at least got someone of value back.
Now they can fully concentrate on getting 2 bats to help with the offense. One must be a right handed bopper that can hit at least 25 HRs.
December 10th, 200911:54 am
OH MY GOD! THE SCOLERI BROTHERS! Tried them for murder! Gave them the chair!
Lew…All the ranting you are doing about the Braves starting rotatin is absolutley true…No argument. The reason the Braves didnt compete in THEIR division is offence. I don’t care about all of MLB the Braves have to contend in NE. Right now the offence is the reson they don’t. Argue that. And you might try doing it without the usual comments about how stupid everyone is but you. Your an artist, and a damn good one from what I understand. That’s a god given talent. Your attitude isn’t.
December 10th, 200911:55 am
Greetings from – compared to Indy – relatively warm Switzerland. I have been enjoying the discussions over the past few days but haven’t had much time to comment. I actually only have one questions for DOB: what exactly is the Braves’ payroll at the moment (including D. Lowe)? I have read several comments about nobody has been able to confirm any of the figures. Thanks, as always, for your clarification!
save 6 on hudson-1 on kawakami, ga-2 church -2 roach-4, sor and gonzo 10-norton .5 =26.5 kelly =2.5 =29 10 for wag-saito =19 + trade lowe =34 = factor in raises =?
December 10th, 200911:58 am
Coen Brothers? That would be very entertaining.
It don't add up
There are some really big dummies on this blog. Some of you are assuming that the Braves have 7-8 million to spend by trading Soriano. This money has already been allocated when they acquired Wagner. Gonzo’s salary went to Saito. Where is the 17 million coming from I keep hearing about. LaRoach is off the books, G. Anderson, KJ is probably gone, and Norton is gone. Church has been cut, but with raises coming on board I don’t see a pile of money to throw around, especially with two positions to fill. Where am I wrong?
December 10th, 200911:59 am
The Rafael Soriano-to-Tampa deal should be complete by the end of the day after Rays get a look at his medical file.
But SHE said...
“A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.”
This is true, but a HAND in the bush can be very valuable…
Cornelius Brothers and Sister Rose.
No short-term make-good contract for Rick Ankiel. One club exec says Scott Boras wants 3 years and “big money” for Ankiel.
So forget Ankiel to the Braves then.
December 10th, 200912:00 pm
anyone mentioned the Giambi brothers yet? However, you’d also have to supply PEDs for them, so any savings in salary might be cancelled out…
Well, Lowe is not an average pitcher. As much I as cant stand him as a person he has been good and will be a good pitcher again. I read earlier this year Stros would have to get rid of Lee, Oswalt, or Berkman because of their price tags. It seems reasonable that they would trade the largest of the three which is Lee. And if they did take this trade then they could open up about $3-$4M in their space or a prospect and get them a good pitcher. Im just sayin Wren should show some intrest in Lee who wants a chance at a title, and I feel he is one of the remaining pieces we need to compete in our division.
But what about the trade for Swisher, signing Nady and dumping Lowe for prospects??? Then maybe try to get DeRosa as a back up and give us a good pinch hitter off the bench. I just dont want them to get Byrd, or trade Lowe for Milton Bradley.
December 10th, 200912:01 pm
GermanBravesFan: $88+million including Lowe and Johnson, with 4 open spots on the 25 man roster. If you assume that those 4 spots are currently filled with position players at or near the league minimum then slightly less than $90million.
Team Physician: Dr. Joyce Brothers
Chavez should be interesting. Hope Roger can fix him up. He is considerably cheaper than Soriano and he will pitching pretty much where Soriano would have pitched.
The Menendez Brothers could platoon to fill in the role of MFIKY.
December 10th, 200912:02 pm
Marko – 11:39 I agree completely, except would add that Soriano blew some games badly and made us sweat a lot in most otheres. Best case was no salary and 2 draft picks. We got no salary and a throw-in/good prospect. Overall not bad.
I would like to dump Lowe’s $45M, but how many of you who are moaning about him didn’t want to sign him last off season. We were desperate for a pitcher, and he was the best available with our payroll. He had a down year, but I’ll bet we get rid of most/all of his contract and may pick up some decent talent as well, judging from the way the market is shaping up.
At any rate, we won’t know how things shake out until it’s over. I think FW has done a good job with what he has to work with, and will at least give him a chance to do his job before final judgement.
BTW, some of you have not noticed it, but the Ted Turner days are OVER!
December 10th, 200912:03 pm
len: Assuming $92million payroll, if Braves eliminate all of Lowe’s and Johsnson’s salary, then they are left with $22million to spend.
After reading the blog the last 48 hours; I vote the Coen brothers…
December 10th, 200912:04 pm
Frank Wren looks wridiculous again … Soriano was no lock down closer but he did a pretty good job and we just dumped him for a bag of balls to the Rays. Wren got played by Soriano’s agent. Soriano didn’t fit carefully crafted “Braves image.” So we now rely on broken down Wagner (over-raaated) and a 39+ Dodgets castoff. Another long winter for Braves fans and Wren-haters.
The Brother’s Grimm–they can find us a fairy godmother who can give some wishes or turn a weak batter into a slugger with the wave of her magic wand.
December 10th, 200912:07 pm
Too many youngsters on this thread. Doobie Brothers!!! (not the Michael McDonald version, either)
December 10th, 200912:08 pm
Travis-I’m so sorry I didn’t feel you had anything to say, but after re-reading your posts, Dude, you don’t.
The Braves need offense? No excrement. I have a feeling we already knew that before you told us. In fact, it might actually have been mentioned once or twice (to the 900th power). You’re not telling us anything we hadn’t heard or speculated on.
Go back and re-read your posts. It MUST be that I have a bad attitude and NOT that you have yet to tell us anything worth reading.
December 10th, 200912:09 pm
Thanks, Hillbilly. Your 12:01 wins the prize for the most tasteless comment I’ve read on this massive thread. Hope you can find your way out of that dark little room.
John (December 10th, 2009
11:23 am): “I’m not a fan of what the Braves are doing. I don’t feel nearly as good about our pitching staff. I love the Braves and I realize I am being negative.”
Are you willing to bet on that?
“So we now rely on broken down Wagner (over-raaated) and a 39+ Dodgets castoff. Another long winter for Braves fans and Wren-haters.”
What is a “Dodget”?
December 10th, 200912:10 pm
Sorry, Splitfinger, I’ll try to be more positive.
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