12:15 pm December 9, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 9th, 20099:48 pm
Sorry, didn’t see that.
December 9th, 20099:49 pm
Carlos Pena for Soriano?
December 9th, 20099:50 pm
mc you got inside wren head when dob couldn’t or u just that smart. 9;45
December 9th, 20099:51 pm
Wide Right, that would be a dream.
December 9th, 20099:53 pm
Now if those Rays prospects are on the table for 2 or 3 million dollars? That’s a different story. Efrim, I agree. A 3B prospect that is close would be ideal.
I just don’t want to get stuck with another team’s “Brooks Conrad”. LOL!
But for the Rays to up the ante to a “good” prospect? For 3 million dollars? No thanks.
N8, I’m not sure this logic holds true, but weren’t the Braves hoping Soriano would go sign with another team so that they would get two draft picks. High ones? Those two picks combined might of costed in the area of 2-3 million dollars. Just sayin….
December 9th, 20099:55 pm
N8: another risk with Soriano is that he gets ticked off pitching the 7th or 8th and starts acting the fool. It would not be in his best interest (not that ballplayers always behave in ways that are in their career interests). [See Exhibit A: M. Bradley, Chicago Cubs, et al]
December 9th, 20099:56 pm
Im glad were in a situation to be getting new players in a trade B/C Frank Wren is FAR better at getting the better end of trades, See Renteria for JJ and the Vazquez deals as example. He does his best when it comes to trades, Way better than his free agent record. So this is Wren time and I expect him to execute another masterpiece trade or trades.
Efrim: good point about cost of two high picks
December 9th, 20099:57 pm
Pena for Soriano? Maybe Pena for Soriano and Freeman with ATL paying Soriano’s salary.
N8…only problem with the above on Soriano is that an arbitration salary is NOT guaranteed. If he gets hurt, he gets waived and is owed nothing. Heck, if he stinks it up in Spring Training like he did last year, he can be waived and cost us only a 30 or 45 day (depends on when he was waived) prorated amount of his contract.
December 9th, 20099:59 pm
DHD are you crazy? Pena is making $10+million this year…no way anyone would give the Rays a Soriano type and a prospect the caliber of Freeman, much less eating the contract of the Soriano type at the same time.
ok I said my peace but 2-3 months in, when the Braves lose a starter or the arm falls off of a reliever or Marlon Byrd plays like – well Marlon Byrd – with the money the Braves “saved”…. I will be back lol
raffys not gonna act a fool, who do you think he is jose lima?
December 9th, 200910:00 pm
anyone else gonna watch Top Chef finale tonight? Atlanta resident in the final 4.
December 9th, 200910:01 pm
And Effrim 2 “high” picks are not what you are going to get for that extra 2-3 million from the Rays. It is worth it for HIGH picks
Am I crazy? Yes. Thanks for asking.
ATLiens: there is truly only one Jose Lima in the world.
so last year we are desperate to get pitching. this winter we are so desperate to dump pitching that we are gonna pay a team to take what is usually a valuable commodity. . as soon as we dump a starter and Sori we will have one or more injuries and we will be desperate to get pitching again. I’m not sure I totally approve of that whole procedure.
I agree with N8’s latest. Hang on to Soriano and use him, trade him at the deadline for more than we will get now.
December 9th, 200910:02 pm
Efrim, totally agree with you. That is my thought process. If the Rays give us a really good prospect that can help soon, and we pay 2-3 million dollars, that’s not much different than giving out a signing bonus next summer to a draft pick.
What I’m saying is, is that I’m not willing to be content if Wren gives up 3 million dollars for a guy that “might” be OK in a couple of years.
I either want a guy that’s got uber-upside in a couple of years, or someboody that can help now. I don’t want a mid-range prospect. I want somebody in their Top 10 list of prospects. Maybe somebody in the 4-8 range.
Am I asking too much? Maybe. But they think they are a closer away from keeping up with the Yankees (or they wouldn’t be thinking about adding him). The ball is in their court. Sh!t or get off the pot.
I think we’re a better team with Soriano overloading our bullpen, than any 4 or 5 million dollar OF/1B can make us. Now if we save 8 million dollars? That’s another story. As I’ve stated, the difference between an 8 million dollar 1B (maybe LaRoche), or a 3-5 million dollar 1B (Dye?) might be huge, especially in terms of defense.
But your point is a great one. It’s not about the money. It’s about the value for the money.
What helps the Braves win more in 2010? Paying 3 million for a team to take Soriano and for that we get a prospect that might help down the road? Or paying Soriano around 3 million dollars to HELP US until June 15th and then still more than likely, receiving a prospect from somebody that will help us down the road?
IMO, Frank doesn’t need to feel as desperate as some think to move Soriano now. Provided he’s willing to gamble that he can move him after June 15th?
Hell? Who knows? Maybe Heyward and Schafer are BOTH ready to contribute by June 15th and Wren can move McLouth?
I like that Wren moved quickly on Wagner. He wanted him. He wanted to be a Brave. They made it happen. But there is zero need to move quickly on this Soriano trade, imo.
December 9th, 200910:05 pm
J-MAN, good point.
December 9th, 200910:07 pm
N8, good reasoning; let’s hope cool heads preval in Indy.
OK. I’m going to go lie down and take a break. When Moby is agreeing with me, things are about to get out of control. (just kidding man)
But seriously, I can’t possibly type any more (of course I could) on this subject. Time to go empty off some of my DVR, since I’m about 2-3 weeks behind on the shows I watch with my wife.
For those who will be bummed out by this, I’m sorry…. but I’ll be back.
yeah and i meet that crazy mofo this may in the DR before we each were boarding the same flight. he was flyin to LA to play in the independent league. it was 6am and the dude was wearing a three piece plaid rug suit, huge shades with a dude waitin behind him pushin three giant louis vuitton bags. we talked for about 5-10 and he was pretty damn funny. the man is a straight clown
Ugh, Prevail – I hate typos, they make you look ignorant.
December 9th, 200910:12 pm
If holding onto Soriano was an option, then I am down for that. I was under the impression that the Braves were going to trade him. So with that said, let’s at least get some value for the guy. If we have to kick in 2-3 million for a Ray TOP TEN prospect that we really like(like I said, I like the Matt Sweeney guy), then it might be something to think about. If we could keep Soriano, then absolutely, keep him and use him and Saito as the primary set up men. But I haven’t heard that. I’ve heard the Braves say that Wagner and Saito will be used in the high leverage innings. Not saying I agree with that, but that’s what I’ve read on here.
December 9th, 200910:16 pm
To me, Wren’s extreme effort to dump him -and Lowe to a lesser point- belies their statements that Liberty Media gives them a flexible payroll. Just like last season when they skimped on Anderson and then on the draft, I think actions speak louder than words.
December 9th, 200910:18 pm
So, Wren’s options in dealing with the Rays is 1) send Soriano down there in return for a marginal prospect (in other words, nothing much) or 2) ship Soriano and cash down their and upgrade the prospect that comes to the Braves. Not exactly a couple of high end draft picks.
Braves aren’t going to hold Soriano until June. They don’t want to eat that much salary. They’re about to dump both Soriano and Lowe to get rid of salary.
December 9th, 200910:22 pm
I’ll be glad when these two pitchers get moves so we can get back to pursuing some hitters. By the way has anyone heard of a team pursuing LaRoche?
Wren needs to unload the $22 million that Soriano and Lowe represent combined. That’s almost – what – a quarter of the team’s payroll ($95 million). Liberty Media isn’t givng the Braves that much budget flexibility.
All right, perhaps less than $22 million if they end up eating portions of both players’ salaries.
December 9th, 200910:24 pm
I’m going to join N8 on this one. There were better names mentioned concerning a trade for Soriano earlier in Indy. I think it would certainly be to our benefit to trade him before we leave, but only if we can get true value for him. Once there are a few more FA signings, the market for Soriano may increase. As long as he is traded before he has the opportunity to injure himself, we should be willing to wait this one out.
I kinda like this note from MLB Trade Rumors:
The Yankees might have the Nats take one of their own players, Zach Kroenke, to make sure no one else does.
I can see it now…
Mike Rizzo: “Holy crap, dude! Zach Kroenke! He just won the AL Cy, man! Awesome!”
(Kroenke’s a Rule 5 guy.)
DOBIn other words, the Braves would get a player they can use, or a stronger prospect, by paying a little of the salary
So, what your saying is, the team, and its fans, should view any cash sent in the deal as a pseudo “signing bonus” for a first round draft pick?
Matt Moore would be better than any 1st round draft pick we could get. His arm is the real deal. Very strong left handed starting pitcher. Tampa does have depth in starters in the minors and may be able to trade from that depth.
If I were the Braves I would pay $2-3 million to get Matt Moore for Soriano.
December 9th, 200910:25 pm
It would have been great if we could have done the Soriano for Lowell deal before the Rangers got a hold of him though.
P. W. Hjort
December 9th, 200910:31 pm
SilverKey (December 9th, 2009 10:07 PM EST) Ugh, Prevail – I hate typos, they make you look ignorant.
I know, there a crime shame. People always tell me I’m and idiot when I make one, but I always tell them not to be such a Pre-Madonna.
(…..Did I miss any blog inside jokes?….)
Have the Braves discussed Adrian Beltre at all?
Eric from MO
TennesseePaul thats actually not a bad way to look at it. Not sure if your being sarcastic or not. Also see people say we should only trade him if we get fair market value for him. Dont know what the hell that means. If the market is giving up much not much they can do about that. Also if we dont get much, people please do not freak out. Our only choices was offer him arbitration or not. If we didnt then we would of got nothing. So hope for something great, if it doesnt happen, it doesnt happen.
December 9th, 200910:32 pm
Since the Braves roster is up to the full 40, does that mean that they do not get a pick in tomorrow’s Rule 5 draft? I think that is right but want to check with those more knowledgeable than I.
December 9th, 200910:33 pm
All right, perhaps less than $22 million if they end up eating portions of both players’ salaries Jeff
I’m talking about the 3,5 mil it would cost to keep Sori until the trading deadline when we would not need to eat anything and would get back more than what is likely to happen, probably a lot more. Whatever they say, they act like a strapped organization more than they say they are for the last few years.
I understand budgetary considerations, but don’t blow smoke up our butts making some fans think the can get guys like Holliday etc.Minor and Anderson still rankle.
This is pretty simple. If the Rays require the Braves to pay part of Sorianos salary to make a trade most likely he is not going to be a Ray. How dumb would that be? Offer the guy arbitration and then when he accepts dump him two days later and eat 2 mil. Not going to happen.
Another thing to think about. The only person saying that Liberty is going to give the Braves more financial freedom this year is Wren and he is being vague about it. What do you think he is going to tell the world when he HAS to move to two big contracts? Do you think he is going to tell every other team that he has no flexibility before he goes into negociations with them.
Last year the Braves had a budget and and it was pretty damn unflexible. They had to cut Glavine to make the McLouth trade. They had to have Boston pick up salary from LaRoche to make that trade. Maybe Liberty will get sentimental for Cox but I doubt it. I believe Wren is probably under the same hard cap budget as last year but it would be stupid for him to admit it.
My guess. Soriano gets moved for a bag of baseballs and Vasquez gets moved for a solid hitter and good prospect. I will still be shocked if Lowe gets moved.
December 9th, 200910:34 pm
Braves’ Winter Meetings Recap:
Soriano accepts arbitration.
I’ve got a big ole pair of blue- (base)balls over here.
December 9th, 200910:35 pm
P’Cola he stated the other day they were not interested in a 3B because Chipper is here. Chipper said he would move if he was gonna be there awhile, but with Freeman a year away then where would Chipper play in 2011? He doesnt want to go to a position he isnt comfortable for only a year.
December 9th, 200910:36 pm
Moby and everybody else, didnt they shop Soriano this past season and didnt get offered much. What makes you think they will this year???
December 9th, 200910:40 pm
Knox MC–Don’t leave out Ryan Church being DFA’d. Another accomplishment at the meetings.
December 9th, 200910:41 pm
didnt they shop Soriano this past season and didnt get offered much. Eric
I never saw or heard anything about that . why would they do that when they were winning games?. O’B might know something about it, but I have to be a bit skeptical right now until I saw some verification of that.
Robert(Chipper Is The Best)
The Braves aren’t likely to get very much for Soriano I’m guessing. As for Lowe, I think the Braves will have plenty of suitors if they eat some salary. I think the Braves could eat as much as $12 to $15 mil and be good. Honestly, they could just ask for some very solid prospects and use the money along with the other funds to get the 1B and LF they need.
I like guys like Dye and Cameron but they scare me because of their age and the appearance they are breaking down. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Braves get Rick Ankiel to play LF or CF and move McClouth to LF and Nady but would that be enough offense? It would be nice if Vlad or Matsui could play the field because I get a feeling those guys will come on the cheap like Dunn and Abreu did last year.
Also, since the Rangers are apparently in on Harden I wonder if they would consider Lowe. If they lose out on Harden I wonder if they would consider Lowe if the Braves eat some salary? Nelson Cruz anybody?
December 9th, 200910:42 pm
glord1″The only person saying that Liberty is going to give the Braves more financial freedom this year is Wren and he is being vague about it.”
Ummm…am I missing something? What other person in baseball organizations talk about salary caps other than the GM? Not saying you are wrong with your assessment, but your reasoning on him being the only one saying it is off-base. Of course he is the one talking about it.
December 9th, 200910:43 pm
Scratch the Rangers. Harden just signed pending a physical.
December 9th, 200910:44 pm
They said they were listening to offers because they would of been gone at the end of the year. They didnt get offered enough to trade them though.
December 9th, 200910:45 pm
Robert how much did Harden get? Just curious.
December 9th, 200910:49 pm
Where’s DOB I hope something’s cooking
Eric – My point is that pretty much everyone knows what the budget is for the Braves. As soon as Soriano accepted arbitration Wren said no big deal it is not going to affect anything we do and we will have some flexibility. Then Wren spends two days without talking to a hitter and just focuses on moving Soriano and Lowes contract.
It sure looks to me that Wren knows his number, does not have alot of flexibility and therefor needs to move those contracts because he cant do squat until he does. Soriano should be able to get moved and Vaquez definitely can but if things break wrong it could affect who is in the lineup bigtime.
like guys like Dye and Cameron but they scare me because of their age and the appearance they are breaking down Robert CITB
I agree that Dye looks like he might be breaking down, but I don’t see any such indication from Cameron yet. He’s been pretty steady as a hitter and a fielder the last 4-5 seasons I think. I don’t think we will do any better, in fact I think he might be more expensive than they will spend especially if the attempts to dump Lowe drag on. Cameron will be gone.
After all these decades of hearing about how important pitching is, I find it kind of hard to believe how much trouble they are having trying to trade it. Talk about bad timing.
The Braves being interested in Nady is good news to me. I think he is one of the best available FA. Even though he’s not a #4 hitter he should do very well for us. He would be a very good fit for this team.
snicky brown eyes
IMO I’d want to see Lowe moved first & maybe not even deal Soriano til the trade deadline. This frees up more cash than pushin’ to dump Raffy first and gettin stuck w/ Lowe. Regardless of what they say about interest, thats nothing.. i was interestedl in the super models I saw on tv in the victoria’s secret fashion show, but you don’t see me humping my flatscreen) I think if we we’re to do that our pen would be like kryptonite to even the most superman of lineups. Our 5 startes are all super good. Real nice. And if for some reason a guy goes down, we still have Medlen to fill in, no problem. And if not, and say a weak horse in the rotation can’t give you solid innings or goes in a funk, you’ve still got a rotation of aces in the pen (Wagner, Saito, Moylan & Soriano) that are, for the most part, unhittable late in the game. Those guys can carry a rotaion through the 6th 7th 8th & 9th innings. It’s like having the best guy for any situation right there at your disposal.
So all I’m tryin to say here is that I think we HAVE to trade Lowe now, yesterday, ASAP! That’s not at all a detriment to him, but a kick in the ass to us/ Get that money and make the best of it to pick up the offense (would love to see Roachy back) and keep Soriano in your back pocket for a rainy trade deadline day.
December 9th, 200910:51 pm
Eric from MO–According to MLBTraderumors:
Harden makes $6.5MM next year, with $3.5MM in incentives based on innings pitched. The deal includes an $11MM mutual option for 2011 that includes a $1MM buyout in case either side wants to decline. So the deal, which is still pending a physical, guarantees Harden a minimum of $7.5MM.
December 9th, 200910:52 pm
The best fits for this club through FA to me is LaRoche, Nady, Cameron, and Derosa. All want to play in Atlanta which could help in cost. All are veteran leaders and professional hitters.
December 9th, 200910:53 pm
Yeah, pretty good deal for Harden. I’m telling you the Rangers will be a very dangerous team next year. They are loaded with bats as always but finally have the pitching to match it.
i think 11mil for harden
December 9th, 200910:55 pm
<—– Is also beginning to wonder if DOB's absence during primetime is good news that suggests something is brewing
“Moby and everybody else, didnt they shop Soriano this past season and didnt get offered much. What makes you think they will this year???” Eric
I’m not saying we’ll get somebody’s top prospect if we wait. What I’m saying is that I’m pretty positive we’ll get the same mid-level prospect after June 15th as we will/would right now.
So if we have to chip in 3+ million to give him away, why not pay Soriano that money, rather than the Rays (or another team), and then move him when we can send him wherever the hell we want to.
Perhaps the threat of being sent to KC in June might make him “settle” for less money now? LOL
December 9th, 200910:56 pm
I think Wren’s patient approach may pay off. For instance, being patient may net Adam LaRoche at a cheap price. I find it curious not one rumor has been thrown about concerning LaRoche. Fact is not a lot of teams really need a 1B so I think LaRoche may find it difficult to find that multiyear deal. The only teams who are in real need of a 1B are the Braves, Marlins and Giants.
December 9th, 200910:57 pm
I can agree with that P’cola. I like LaRoche and think his comfort level here could boost his first half numbers a bit.
Couldn’t agree more. I like all of those guys and all have expressed interest.
December 9th, 200910:58 pm
They had pretty good pitching last year too.
December 9th, 200910:59 pm
The Giants are the only team I’ve heard linked to LaRoche and he’s the back up plan to N. Johnson
DOB re: SORIANO:
“Right now, teams don’t feel a sense of urgency to get him as their closer, I’d imagine.”
Not enough other bullpen FA’s off the market yet I assume
December 9th, 200911:00 pm
I read earlier today the Tigers are looking to move Carlos Guillen. Guillen is a solid hitter and can play 1B. Wonder what the Tigers want for him?
December 9th, 2009
The best fits for this club through FA to me is LaRoche, Nady, Cameron, and Derosa. All want to play in Atlanta which could help in cost. All are veteran leaders and professional hitters.
Hopefully the market drops on these guys and it may. Right now other than Nady each is looking for about 9 mil a year.
December 9th, 200911:01 pm
And the Rangers had a damn good team. If the Angels don’t sign Lackey and can’t get their hands on Halladay and pass on Lowe they will be very beatable next year.
December 9th, 200911:03 pm
i’m not about to downplay the importance of having “professional hitters” on any team, but if I may go out on a limb and say that’s really not of the utmost importance to this Braves team at this point …
My feelings are that the club has enough “professional hitters” as it is (Chip, Prado, McCann) … no, I think the Braves are in desperate need of some electricity in their lineup … somebody like Crawford, Holliday, or Adrian Gonzalez … obviously I understand that most of those guys aren’t attainable given the team’s variety of constraints, but those type of guys are the ones I’m talking about
If the Mariners add a good bat they could emerge as the team to beat in the AL West. Figgins and Ichiro will make a dynamic 1-2 punch.
December 9th, 200911:04 pm
I hope we get Nady. He was one of the hitters Chipper wanted before he was traded to NY, I believe. I just think if he’s healed like he apparantly said that he could put up numbers like he did in ‘08 with Pitt… .305 avg/ 25 HR/ 97 RBI. He could be better in Atlanta’s lineup especially if they could add another bat like Cameron. He’s definitely worth the risk.
December 9th, 200911:05 pm
Sounds like Braves-Rays could finalize a Rafael Soriano deal as soon as tomorrow morning.
December 9th, 200911:07 pm
The best combo in my opinion would be Nady and Laroche. If LaRoche is passed on then I think Cameron is the next best option. Nady is flexible and can play multiple position. It would be nice to finally have him after all the talk of possibly acquiring him the last few years.
December 9th, 200911:09 pm
“So if we have to chip in 3+ million to give him away, why not pay Soriano that money, rather than the Rays (or another team), and then move him when we can send him wherever the hell we want to”
Soriano has already given Wren trade clearance which means Wren can move him to any team that is interested. Again, this isnt like a no trade clause where he gets to pick certain places to pitch.
Too bad we couldn’t get creative and pay someone like Jermaine Dye 2-3 million to just play the first half of the season at 1B. Then pay LaRoach 3-4 million to play the second half.
And isn’t “professional hitter” an oxymoron?
Everyone in the MLB has hitting as part of their profession.
Everyone is already a Pro, at the highest level of competition.
And if there are professional hitters, must there also be unprofessional hitters? And if so, who?
December 9th, 200911:10 pm
I would be very happy with Nady and LaRoche.
DOB on Twitter a few minutes ago:
Sounds like Braves-Rays could finalize a Rafael Soriano deal as soon as tomorrow morning.
December 9th, 200911:11 pm
Another thing on Nady is that he’s not a 1 year fluke. His ‘07 numbers were pretty good too. I think it’d be a very smart signing, low risk/high reward kind of thing. Sign him up Braves!
What about AL pitchers? They’re not professional hitters.
Detroit was looking for a 3rd team to provide a pithcher to the Angels. Something like LAA gets a pitcher, DET gets someone from LAA, and the 3rd team gets Guillen.
Braves could be the 3rd team and give Lowe to the Angels, but he’s their third option at best. Don’t know how interested Braves are in Guillen either. DET is the only team that would do that deal right now.
December 9th, 200911:12 pm
Only issue is I think they plan to use Nady at 1B from what ive read so a combo of Nady and Cameron would be ideal.
DOB- if we can get a better prospect by eating salary, I am TOTALLY down with that.
December 9th, 200911:13 pm
i would be very happy with Nady and Cameron or LaRoche and Cameron
VP, Thank God! I’m not sure I could stomach any more Soriano talk on here. Soriano– good bye my child, you served us well… sorta.
I agree Nady/LaRoche would likely be the best combo but I have a feeling whoever gets Rick Ankiel could be getting a steal too. Especially if he is signed to a one year deal he will be wanting to have a monster year so he could get a 3+ year deal!
Crazy trades McGehee
December 9th, 200911:15 pm
The suspense is killing me! Have we traded Soriano and Lowe for Crawford and Pena yet???
Nick in PA
this blog > twitter
THE BEAR Illegitimi non carborundum
December 9th, 200911:16 pm
Since it takes LaRoche so long to get warmed up (so to speak) like two or three months, why has he never been advised to play winter ball? That way he could come straight from winter ball into Spring Training and be ready to knock the cover off the ball.
It sure would make him a much more valuable piece of property to any team. It could make him millions more in his contract negotiations.
I think the Angels interest in Lowe will heat up. I don’t think they’ll sign Lackey. The more time that passes the less likely Lackey will sign with the Angels. As for Halladay I think either the Dodgers or Red Sox will get him. The Angels are just too reluctant to give up their prospects and young players. The Jays will probably want Aybar along with 2 to 3 top prospects. The Angels won’t do that.
Bravoman, I’m not sure I’d want Nady playing any position but 1st base coming off that elbow surgery. You’d run the risk of him blowing it out or having it flare up throughout the season. 1st base is usually easy on the arm. Perfect fit.
Call Boras, tell him we’ll take Nady and Ankiel off his hands in a package deal.
Grrrrrreat news on Soriano. I’ll be anxious to hear the details tomorrow.
So let’s see this entire winter meetings for the Braves has revolved around Raffy. From the acceptance of arbitration to trade rumor mill. I sure do hope we get a solid return if we have to give some dough with him. I’m sure the meetings wasn’t a total Soriano show however. I bet Wren has made some progress on Nady and who may be a suitor for Lowe in Indianapolis.
December 9th, 200911:17 pm
twitter = sucks
I wish we knew who the Braves were asking for from TB.
December 9th, 200911:18 pm
The Angels have made an offer, according to Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun. They’d give up Joe Saunders, Erick Aybar and Peter Bourjos for Halladay.
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