12:15 pm December 9, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 9th, 20098:25 pm
Actually until June 15 it is essentially a no trade clause
December 9th, 20098:26 pm
I have to wonder if there is something to a Pat Burrell for Soriano trade with the Braves probably picking up a prospect as well. The Rays would love to be rid of Burrell and need a solid closer badly. Salary would be nearly a wash
The Braves need a LF or 1B with power that is right handed. Burrell would benefit from a return to the National League.
18 Wheels of Love
And as far as that Rays blog….didn’t Soriano’s agent give Wren a list of teams that Soriano had been talking to recently? Would Wren seriously waste all this time negotiating with a team that Soriano wouldn’t go to?
December 9th, 20098:27 pm
“doesnt matter, he doesnt get to decide where he goes. This isnt like a no trade clause, He’s given Wren the go ahead to trade him. He can now be moved anywhere whether he likes that team or not.”
Not trying to be an ass, but where did you see this? I read some stuff with his agent talking about where he’d be “willing” to go. So unless this just came out late this afternoon where Soriano and his agent have stated “just trade me”, I’ve gotta call BS.
DOB? Care to chime in?
December 9th, 20098:28 pm
Imagine the Yankees getting Halladay to go with Sabathia? Or, imagine Philly getting him. I’d say they’d be the favorites again to win the NL title.
Very good point, 18 Wheels.
So, you are what your moniker states……Unbelievable.
December 9th, 20098:29 pm
If the Phillies sign Halladay, can the Braves surrender the division right now, cut the entire team, then start 2011 with a $196 million payroll?
December 9th, 20098:31 pm
Kind of shows who the big-boys are and why we’re not in that group anymore, doesn’t it?
The Yankees, Angels and Phillies ponder how they can add Roy Halladay.
The Braves? They contemplate bringing in Ross Gload….. and failed. (sigh)
Yeah, I know he actually went to the Phillies. But does anybody think he’ll really be starting a lot of games over Ryan Howard? He’s purely for their bench. My guess is he would have been part of a platoon with us.
December 9th, 20098:32 pm
Except they wouldn’t offer even one of those guys for Cliff Lee. Not one.
Please don’t bring that up, scoots. Painful to see. Teams shouldn’t get aces for secondary prospects. Phils did that. It got them to the World Series.
Boy, those Tigers have written the book on how not to run an organization with all those terrible signings & trades the last few years. Cabrera wasn’t an awful trade… yet. Willis has been a huge bust & JJ/Hernandez for Renteria was a brain dead decision on their part.
Yeah, I’m guessing that the Braves & Soriano are locked into the arbitration process and all the no-trade rights it affords him.
Soriano must approve a trade to release himself and the Braves from that process.
December 9th, 20098:33 pm
Mitchie, you see the North Shore yesterday? Holy crap, I was glued to my tv screen all afternoon watching the Eddie.
December 9th, 20098:35 pm
N8 there is always the chance that we will show the Phillies by trading our top winner, top closer and getting Byrd. That ought to scare them
December 9th, 20098:37 pm
But that wont happen with the Phils getting Halladay, they will have to give so much up, unlike that baragin that they got Lee for, but you might see like Angels or Red Sox going after Halladay.
To Braves situation, I think that Lowe and Soriano should be traded as soon they can find a buyer (Tampa Bay, if they want to complete against Yankees, BoSox and Orioles,they will have to strength their bullpen and they got the money and young talent that we need)
December 9th, 20098:38 pm
hmmmm….the voice of reason.
Burdell, agree. No way the Phills don’t at least get to the WS again if they add Halladay. I’m not sure if there’s a better over all pitcher on the planet than Halladay. Lincecum, Sabathia, Santana & Webb would round out #’s 2,3,4,5 for me.
If Halladay trade to Angels is completed, forget them as suitor for Lowe. They’d have to miss out on Halladay trade and re-signing Lackey to get down to Lowe, who is no higher than third on their list, but could be that high.
I’m pretty sure the deal with trading Soriano works exactly like a NTC. He has to submit written approval of a trade in order for a deal to go down. My thought would be that he will approve to any team that gives him an opportunity in the 8th and 9th innings (Rays would). Of course i really don’t know what might be going on in his mind. Don’t think I’ve ever heard soriano speak or change facial expressions.
December 9th, 20098:39 pm
DOB – what is your take on Burrell? Washed up slow poke who will strike out a ton or potential middle of the order bat more reminiscient of his second half surge with the Phillies a few years ago?
Soriano is being cooperative. But he wants assurance that whatever team trades for him will use him as closer. And until he approves a trade, we can’t trade him, at least before June 1.
I’m sure Wren is not about to just toss him to the first team that offers us a batboy in return. Arms like his don’t come along every day. Someone will eventually cough up fair value. There’s no rush.
Every spring training, the top comment you hear is “we’re looking good, but we’d like to add another arm.” Teams may just be waiting in the weeds, hoping Wren will panic and take whatever offer he can get. $8 million is a lot of money, but it’s really only about $4 million, since we will be able to move him anywhere we want by June. And I’m pretty sure he doesn’t want to end up in DC or Pittsburgh, where there will be few if any save opportunities.
I think DOB’s statement that we won’t get anything for Soriano because no one would cough up a draft pick is off base. I think all they heard was that he would be less desirable if they had to give up a draft pick when there were others out there that would not cost a pick. That doesn’t mean no one would give up the pick, just that they would be more reluctant to sign him.
In this upcoming draft, I can see a lot of teams not wanting to lose a good pick, given the talent that will be available.
December 9th, 20098:40 pm
It can’t be…WHERE IS THE PICTURE OF PENELOPE CRUZ? , I must have strolled down too quickly. BRB.
If the prospects we get for Lowe and Soriano aren’t at least projected to be on a major league roster then the hell with it, keep them, and see what happens. Bet someone will need them at the break – with injuries it may just be us.
December 9th, 20098:41 pm
That Halladay to the Angels deal doesn’t look good enough to me based on what I’ve been hearing the Jays want. Could be wrong though.
DOB, is that ranking of Lowe speculation or something you have heard?
December 9th, 20098:42 pm
This makes me giggle. If it’s true.
The Royals have offered free agent catcher Jason Kendall a two-year deal, reports the Kansas City Star’s Bob Dutton.
The Royals are trying to eliminate their competition for Kendall by tacking on an additional year. Perhaps they should reconsider. The 35-year-old batted just .241/.331/.305 in 452 at-bats with the Brewers in 2009 and has a .243 batting average over the last three seasons.
The guy is almost an automatic two-hopper to short.
I think it is clear that a lot has to happen or not happen for some teams for them to realistically consider Lowe. I’m starting to think Wren has been too confident and way too public with his intentions….kind of like last year when everyone and their assistant knew we were looking for at least 1 starter and a bat.
The thing about the money for Soriano is this: Rays apparently don’t have room in payroll to spend $7 mill or more on Soriano for 2010. So unless they can work out a multi-year deal with a significantly lower salary (unlikely), the only way a deal with Braves gets done might be for Braves to eat a couple mill or so of Soriano’s 2010 salary. Before you howl, here’s why that might not be a bad thing for Braves. As it stands now, they’re unlikely to get any significant player or top prospect in a deal for Soriano. But if they agree to sweeten their end by paying a couple of mill or so, then the Rays might sweeten their end by offering a legit top prospect or pretty good player in the trade. In other words, the Braves would get a player they can use, or a stronger prospect, by paying a little of the salary….
NCBravesFan: Whatever team he’s traded to is free to negotiate a deal with Soriano, one, two, three years or whatever, or they can go to arb with him.
December 9th, 20098:44 pm
Goldenglove: Something I’ve heard. Not specifically that he was third, but that he was on their radar, if they don’t get Halladay or Lackey. Those were the only two the person close to the Angels mentioned.
December 9th, 20098:47 pm
DOB – any chance the Braves take Burrell for Soriano and then hopefully get a prospect as well? It would free up the payroll for the Rays.
Paying a couple million to get Soriano’s salary closer to $5 million if that netted us a top prospect or a player who will contribute significantly will be well worth it. Good point as always DOB
Dude let’s just send a couple mil to the Rays w/Soriano and be done with it. The return should be nice.
December 9th, 20098:49 pm
I dont think Pat the Bat is the kind of player the Braves are looking for in LF.
Any idea if the Braves would be willing to eat part of Soriano’s contract AND part of Lowe’s contract?
December 9th, 20098:50 pm
I can’t see the Rays including him, but watching Desmond Jennings play was a LOT of fun!
December 9th, 20098:51 pm
As it stands now, they’re unlikely to get any significant player or top prospect in a deal for Soriano. But if they agree to sweeten their end by paying a couple of mill or so, then the Rays might sweeten their end by offering a legit top prospect or pretty good player in the trade.
Which is what the Indians did when they traded Casey Blake to the Dodgers in 2008. They ended up getting one of the elite prospects in the game, catcher Carlos Santana, while paying for the remainder of Blake’s contract. This is a wise strategy, imo.
the dilemma with Halladay to the Angels – The Angels are one of our best bets for Lowe and if they get Halladay you can cross them off the list. If the Angels get Halladay however, then one of the other main suitors – the Phillies – do not get Halladay.
I still think a Derek Lowe to the Yankees makes a lot of sense for both teams.
P. W. Hjort
December 9th, 20098:53 pm
Just throwing this out there: if the Braves eat all of Soriano’s 2010 salary, the saber-ish economics of a straight up Soriano-Pena swap basically work out. (Braves pay Pena’s salary, too).
December 9th, 20098:54 pm
Gary – I know Burrell is not the player that the Braves are looking for, nor am I. Tampa probably would push that though.
I still support the idea of paying a little of his salary to get good return. Great example above about the Indians and Blake
December 9th, 20098:56 pm
P.W. Hjort We would have to sweeten the deal by include the entire AA Mississippi team to get Pena.
December 9th, 20098:58 pm
If it takes money added to the deal I wouldn’t trade either. Pull them back. Eventually teams will come looking for them when the stench of desperation has worn off…
here’s an idea: the rays should just toss all their players into a glass cage. frank wren sends soriano down the coin slot and gets to use the mechanical claw to grab any player (or players, if he’s really skilled or if their legs are interlocking) he desires. if he can get a good grip on longoria, it’s a no-brainer. if longoria slips out of the claw’s grasp before he can be dropped down the chute, frank wren can toss vazquez down the coin slot and give it another go. that’s really the only fair way to make this trade happen.
December 9th, 20098:59 pm
its too bad we need the payroll so badly to get a bat. otherwise we could sit on soriano for a while and eventually a team or two would come begging for him.
Brave's Next Power Hitter (?)
December 9th, 20099:00 pm
“Just throwing this out there: if the Braves eat all of Soriano’s 2010 salary, the saber-ish economics of a straight up Soriano-Pena swap basically work out. (Braves pay Pena’s salary, too).”
Then get Lowe for whatever. Dump some salary, get Cameron. Cool?
What’s wrong with throwing in 2-3 million dollars to secure a better return? Of course, it’d have to be one of the Rays top prospects, but I think it’d be worth it.
December 9th, 20099:03 pm
If the Braves are going to have to pay ANY of Soriano’s salary, how about we just keep him, dump Lowe for whatever we can, go for some quick fixes at 1B and LF, callup Heyward to start the season, pray to whatever god you pray to that Chipper returns to being Chipper-like, and roll into 2010 with the best pitching staff in baseball?
I can’t imagine that Wren hasn’t at least approaching Vazquez about an extension, and backloading the contract to help with the 2010 payroll? Seems like the guy wants to stay.
But anything more than 1 to 1.5 million of Soriano’s salary, and I say we keep him.
December 9th, 20099:07 pm
Enter your comments hereThey may not be frontrunners, but the Rays are talking to the Braves about Soriano, according to Yahoo’s Tim Brown.
December 9th, 20099:08 pm
my bad, **They may not be frontrunners, but the Rays are talking to the Braves about Soriano, according to Yahoo’s Tim Brown.**
i say trade him during the season after some team struggles closing out game. that could get the return we want. derek lowe, on the other hand, needs to be dealt immediately.
well then I hope Halladay doesn’t end up with the Angels. Want to keep them open as a trading option. Believe it or not I actually wouldn’t mind seeing him end up with Philly. I’d love to see them destroy their farm between that and the Cliff lee deal. And I don’t think they’d be able to lock both of them up long term.
but lol, obviously there talking
December 9th, 20099:09 pm
someone should let Tim know that he’s a little behind
Hmmmmm, I’m with you.
Efrim I see what you’re saying, but has anybody actually let the thought roll through their heads that the “best return” on Soriano may actually be using him in the 7th inning and locking down these games when we have a lead?
What’s worse? Paying a few million dollars to make Soriano go away? Or paying 7 or 8 million dollars and using him?
Trade Lowe, sign LaRoche, put Diaz in LF, McLouth in CF and let Heyward/Schafer battle for RF in the spring (obviously if Schafer “wins” that battle, move Diaz to RF, McLouth to LF and Schafer to CF).
But that lineup (with basically Heyward/Schafer replacing Loaf) won a LOT of games last year.
But paying Soriano to go away just makes no sense to me. Talk about wasted money. Is 2 or 3 million dollars REALLY going to make the rays give us one of their really good prospects? Highly unlikely.
If the Rays want him bad enough, THEY will up the ante, by offering one of their bats and asking for some of our prospects in return.
Soriano is going to make around 7-8 million next year, Carlos Pena is making 11 million (it’s 10.125 million – but he gets 750K if he’s traded). Seems to me, there is your math problem.
Give us Pena, will give you Soriano, they save about 3 million bucks and we get a one year cleanup hitter at 11 million dollars. EASILY within our budget if Lowe is moved.
December 9th, 20099:10 pm
So Efrim we are shedding Soriano’s 2009 salary of 6.5 million, but by giving a team 2-3 million to take it. So in the end we traded a closer, with very good numbers, to save 3.5 to 4 million dollars? To spend on who? Who the hell you gonna get as a hitter for 3.5-4 million dollars (Garret Anderson, lol) ? And you would rather have a middle of the road prospect and a bench player (because that is what you will get for 3.5-4 mill) instead of your BEST closer from last year? Really? That is a GOOD deal?
December 9th, 20099:12 pm
Finances don’t work out, gotta trade for a cheap OF. Might make sense to pry one of TB’s away in the process by including a few prospects.
December 9th, 20099:13 pm
N8 I don’t think 1-1.5MM will cut it. They have a payroll budget tighter than Time Warner. Stuart Sternberg, the Rays owner: There is no $7 million closer showing up. My guess is 5.5-6MM is the most they will agree with. I believe Sori will command 8-8.25MM if he heads to Arb.
Pretty easy solution, pay a couple million to get a good player. They would have had to use about that amount of money if he had declined arbitration, giving the Braves a first round pick (signing bonus). Soriano is damn good. The Braves need to be compensated as such.
December 9th, 20099:14 pm
Yeah I went up there. It took us about 2 hours to get there due to traffic. Parking was a nightmare too. The waves didnt get as big as forecasted, but there were some 25-30 footers. I got to see Kelly Slater for a few runs, which was nice. He took second place.
The worst part? I went to take me first picture….no memory card. I left it in the laptop at home.
I did have a full battery, though….(sigh)
Again, I don’t see the issue with keping Lowe over Vazquez. Lowe is going to be solid, and probably overpaid at the same time for a guy approaching 40. But Vazquez is NOT going to extend at LESS than his 11.5 miillion. More than likely right around what Lowe is making.
Why not keep Lowe, if eventually he is a 15 million dollar 5th starter, so be it. As long as Hanson is only costing around 500K for the next few years, what’s the difference? We basically have 2 starters on average of around 8 million each. Add in Hudson’s 9 million, JJJ’s few million as he hits arbitration, and KK is only making about 7-8 million the next couple of years.
Way I see it, with a 92-95 million dollar budget, spending around 35 million or so on the starting rotation isn’t really that bad.
Vazquez will bring more, and we won’t have to eat ANY of the money. In fact if a team was to give us a bat in return, we probably could get THEM to eat money if it’s Vazquez going back.
So in a way, Soriano accepting arbitration might very well have forced Wren to trade Vazquez instead of Lowe.
Thanks Raffy. LOL
December 9th, 20099:15 pm
N8 i agree on Soriano. I understand that 7 mill is a lot for a set-up guy but if the braves have to pay 2 mill to get rid of him then the likelihood of getting something better for the buck with 5 mill is unreasonable. The Braves need to just hold bait wait till they can get value from him and if not then keep him and load the staff. I dont understand what the issue is if the braves maybe have a similar lineup than last year with possibly minor upgrades, but this year also have a full yr of a stacked rotation and bullpen. ive agreed with most of wren’s moves but he madea mistake signing saito b/f the braves knew what raffy would do. the last thing now to do is to compound that mistake by just giving him away or paying some of his salary
December 9th, 20099:16 pm
I will say it again, keep them both, bring up the rookies and take a shot. You can always trade at midseason when someone’s starter is hurt or closer has melted down. Still would save a lot of money
December 9th, 20099:20 pm
If you wanted the deepest Bull-pen in the history of MLB. Keep both Soriano and Lowe and move Lowe as a 3rd closer. I know it wont happen but its an unusual idea that in theory could work.
Rays get: Soriano, Schafer, average prospect
Braves get: Carl Crawford
How about that? Rays dump $10mill to pay for Soriano etc.
December 9th, 20099:22 pm
Keep in mind guys The Braves are not OVER budget, they just want to get below. But if I wouldn’t trade Lowe and Soriano straight up for the hitter they would get (Byrd, etc.) then it isn’t a good deal.
December 9th, 20099:23 pm
I wonder if that Tim Brown tweet means they went back upstairs after the Scout of the Year dinner thing to continue talks about Soriano…
Maybe he will get dealt tonight afterall.
December 9th, 20099:24 pm
Am I missing out on something, or do you guys not realize how much we have to spend?
laroche-we paid him about 3.5mm last year, so say 3.5mm
and that all equals 15mm. Now, say we dump Lowe and Soriano for prospects, that’s another 20mm, so that all equals 35mm
Take out Arby raises, miscalculations, and you get about 28-30mm to spend if we dump lowe/soriano. Even if we got a kind of expensive player like 9mm from another team for Lowe or Sori, that’s still about 20mm to spend in FA, which could easily get Bay or Holliday.
Maybe FW should play hardball with these guys, wait until at least March or even April-May. Pitchers are going to go down and Soriano and Lowe’s value will go up. In the meantime, they strengthen the club while they play early season games. Works for me, but it’s not my money.
December 9th, 20099:25 pm
And you would rather have a middle of the road prospect and a bench player (because that is what you will get for 3.5-4 mill) instead of your BEST closer from last year? Really? That is a GOOD deal?
Soriano isn’t on the team next year. It’s already been established. The Braves want to get something of value for him. So right now, the Rays may only be offering organizational filler for Soriano. If you like a certain prospect or two from the Rays, perhaps kicking in 2-3 million to get said prospect, may be the better route to go.
Zack I like that. I’d go Soriano, Schafer and even Christhian Betancourt for Crawford.
Although if we had to go prospect route, Sean Rodriguez, Desmond Jennings, Matt Moore, Jeremy Hellickson, Nick Barnese, would all seem worthwhile.
Hell, maybe Wren keeps Soriano and trade Saito after June 15th? Maybe Wagner’s elbow blows up and we need a closer in June.
But I’m with you ATLiens and Hmmm. If we’re going to pay around 3 million to make Soriano go away, why not shell out the other 5 to keep him?
The differnce between a 6 million dollar “fix” at 1B or LF and a 1 million dollar fix is so minimal, imo.
Anybody worth spending 5 or 6 million on at 1B is going to actually cost us 10 million. It’s all or nothing, and quite honestly somebody like Nady is going to get paid way more money than he’s worth at this point.
Here’s the math in my book. Say Soriano is rewarded 8 million in arbitration. That’s 1.33 million per month. If we have to keep him until June 15th before being able to trade him, why not USE HIM. June 15th is the 2.5 month point of the season. That’s 3.325 million we’d have to pay, if we traded him to a desperate team in June who’s closer went down.
Why the hell not get our 3.325 million worth out of him for 2.5 months? Are you all really going to tell me that in the middle of a pennant race a desperate team isn’t going to give us more for him in June than they will right now when they KNOW we’re desperate to get rid of him?
Hell, maybe Wagner goes down by then and we NEED him. Of course Liberty Media would have to give permission to Wren to “carry” Soriano until then. And if he can’t get rid of him, it might mean moving somebody else to clear payroll. But that’s a better gamble than dumping him for nothing now AND eating some of his salary, don’t you think?
December 9th, 20099:26 pm
The Soriano situation sounds pretty good to me — pay up to $2-2.5 million (I would think it’d be up to that much) of his salary and get a player they can actually use in return? I hope Wren does it.
December 9th, 20099:27 pm
Why does everyone suggest these idiotic offers? The rays say no thanks a few days ago to sign Rafy for 2 picks but now they will say yeah lets give you Crawford for a closer and 2 question marks sure. At the absolute best the braves will get Burrell beyond that maybe Matt joyce straight up with the braves payin for 2 to 3 mill and then after that lucky to get AAA guy or a backup outfielder. Please use your brain and not your “inner braves fan” when suggesting trades.
Each passing moment it seems this situation gets worse.
The spin from the braves side on this from the beginning has been common, consistent, and has played out as the casual fan expects. (which in itself is hugely odd)
“He won’t be a closer, ,,a setup guy at best. he’s not a gamer if he accepts (albeit not in those words), he will most likely receive less in arbitration than thought, teams not wanting to give up draft compensation might be willing to trade a prospect. alot of interest, not a huge concern if he accepts arbitration, still looking to get a fair return, to may pay to get rid of him.” All of this posturing and more in less than a few days.
My thoughts, If we give up 2-3mil, how far could that have went from getting GA vs. someone better lastyear? Also, How much does paying part of salary prove what a blunder it was?
I’m betting part of this scenario was FW was looking at BOS early on, partially hedging his bets that they would be interested in Soriano either way (trade or sign) if ATL signed both Wagner/Saito.
To go from , “hey, relax, no big deal” , to no draft compensation, to a possible trade for a good player, to a complete dump, to dump plus paying part of salary. And that’s not even getting into possible opportunities that might have been missed in the early part of the winter meetings dealing with this.
When does the Mayan calendar end again? I’m teasing.
But yes, so far this is playing out like a greek tragedy.
December 9th, 20099:28 pm
“Is 2 or 3 million dollars REALLY going to make the rays give us one of their really good prospects? Highly unlikely.” — N8
It very well might. As N Nine said, the Rays are notoriously stingy on payroll. They do have an abundance of young talent, however.
The Rays also have to figure out what to do about Pat Burrell, too. Perhaps that’s a sticking point in the negotiations (?)
December 9th, 20099:29 pm
Greek tragedy <
In case it got lost in the shuffle of my last essay, the question at hand is that the pro-rated portion of Soriano’s salary if he is awarded 8 million bucks is 1.33 million per month. Keeping him until June would cost us about 3.325 million.
Why on earth would we pay around 3 million to make him go away, rather than use him for 2.5 months for the same 3.325 million?
All I want is one good explanation why that is a smart move? Because as I stated, I think we get a better prospect for him after June 15th than we do right now, even if we pay 3 million of his money to the Rays.
Right now it’s only a handful of teams in on the action. On June 15th their might be 5-10 teams that think they are a closer away from contending.
Better to wait imo.
December 9th, 20099:30 pm
N8 is right….Instead of paying the Rays 2-3 million, use him for that 2-3 million, then trade him to ANY team since at that point he can’t veto and we still get a prospect we would want…..and all the guys throwing out Rays starters names – get real, ain’t happening even if you throw in cash.
Efrim….that “certain prospect” shouldn’t be worth US kicking in an extra “2-3 mill”. Because wren overplayed his hand Raffy’s market value may have plummeted, however, he could/can still be extremely valuable to the braves. if we have raffy in the pen the game immediately becomes shorter and it gives the braves insurance hte way cox uses the pen
People it’s not just that didn’t want to sacrifice the draft picks! They just weren’t offering big bucks on a free agent deal.
December 9th, 20099:32 pm
Its ok to dream
Odds are Lowe isnt gunna have as bad as a season as he did last year.
I say get rid of him, but if we do keep him, he isnt gunna do as bad.
I like him and i just have a feelin that if we trade him, he’s gunna have a great season somewhere else. And we’re gunna end up wasting the money on some guy like Byrd and some other cheaper bat that probably arent even going to pay off for us.
December 9th, 20099:33 pm
And we are NOT over budget, so why the rush…
N8-great points. I agree, no money in the deal for Soriano – just hold him until mid season.
Also, since Boston seems set on moving and paying for some of Lowell’s salary, then why no serious talk with them for Soriano?
December 9th, 20099:34 pm
N8’s case makes total sense. Even if the June 15 prospect isn’t any better, it still makes $$ sense to use him instead of shipping him out with a couple million.
December 9th, 20099:36 pm
Anyone think the Rays are ready to throw in the towel on Upton yet?
Just slinging random thoughts.
December 9th, 20099:37 pm
N8 – I agree with you, and you & I are not alone in saying that today. Soriano’s value is not very good in trade right now. In a few months, it will be better.
December 9th, 20099:38 pm
The Rays went to the WS two years ago. Forgive me if I don’t feel sorry for their financial woes. If they want Soriano, time to pay the fiddler. If that’s with a good prospect that we can use down the road, fine with me. But if it’s for a fringe guy with “upside”? No thanks.
Wren has already shown by getting Wagner, overpaying for Lowe, etc… that with Bobby being done this year, he wants to win now. If we can’t get anybody in return for Soriano that can help us NOW more than he can in our bullpen (no matter what inning), then I say we keep him.
Lowe and Vazquez are a different story. If we dump either of them, the salary relief will be enough to buy another player, or trade prospects for an established more expensive player. But if we are going to pay Raffy AND have to wait a few years to get the reward? WTF?
I realize that had he signed elsewhere, we would have gotten draft picks and would have obviously had to wait for them to contribute. But said team signing him wouldn’t have asked us to pay some of the new contract he just signed.
Which is what the Rays (or any team) are getting. A free agent pitcher that is asking between 7-8 million dollars to come pitch for them. Do they want him or not?
Who’s more desperate? The Rays to obtain his services? Or the Braves to rid themselves of his salary? Classic game of Chicken. Might be a game that Wren can’t win if he’s desperate and shows it.
Which is why he has to at least bluff that if he’s going to pay around 3 million to dump him, that he’s willing to keep him until June 15th.
Best case scenario is that the Rays want him bad enough to add a REALLY good prospect.
Man I love this sh!t!
December 9th, 20099:39 pm
UK and UConn about to get it on. GO BIG BLUE!
Braves aren’t keeping Soriano. Period. Not for any part of the season. They’ve said as much.
Rational Braves Fan
It’s always fun in the winter to dream about how good the Braves could be with certain players. That’s what makes baseball fun. However, I would like to point out to y’all that the twice defending Phillies have as the core of their team: Lee, Hamels, Happ, Lidge, Ryan, Utley, Rollins, Ibanez, and Victorino.
We probably have a better starting lineup and are about even in the bullpen (I mean c’mon, how much can we depend on a 38 and 40 year olds!). BUT, their offense is on another galaxy compare to us. As much as it pains me to say…..it’s not even close. Bank the Phils in for another division title.
Maybe, maybe we might sneak in as a wild card, but face it, with Chipper pushing close to 40, our offense if horrible, and theirs not much in free agency that we can afford that’s gonna change that.
December 9th, 20099:40 pm
Great way of looking at itN8. Not just that, some team will get their closer/setup guy hurt and willing to PAY more in July. No point in RUSHING & PAYING to rid Soriano. Case closed. Now if they want to talk Crawford, then it’s worth a few MM, IMO….
What you people are saying is…Give Soriano to the RAYS free, take him. Now i’m going to buy a prospect for 2 or 3 million, ok? Then we have a deal.
I agree with N8 save the money . If Soriano is not worth something forget it and work his butt off.
I do trust Wren to do whats right. Its not his money he’s spending.
December 9th, 20099:41 pm
N8: yeah the Rays are pretty confusing. They were in the race in July after that improbable series run, sat on their thumbs at the trade deadline and found themselves 20 games behind the Yankees by the end of the season.
December 9th, 20099:43 pm
The point is the only reason Soriano accepted is for more money he didnt even wait for Wren to ask to trade him and he gave him clearence he wats out and wants to close you put him in the 7th inning hes not in the ball game mentally get what you can if you pay 2 to 3 mill for an ok player.
December 9th, 20099:44 pm
thanks for putting that extra period in there. now i fully understand your comment.
Bill Shanks offered up some good Rays prospects that we should target. All pitching:
Matt Moore- 20 yrs old, went 8-5 in single A, 3.15 era, 123 I.P., 176 SO
Jeremy Hellickson- 22 yrs old, went 9-2 overall in AA and AAA, 2.45 era, 114 I.P., 132 SO
Nick Barnese- 20 yrs old, went 6-5 in single A, 2.53 era, 74.2 I.P., 62 SO
I think any of these guys would be a great get for Soriano
December 9th, 20099:45 pm
Anybody else getting a migrain with this whole Soriano situation? Who’d have thought even a week ago that almost all the news we’d be hearing from the winter meetings involving our team would be a RP they don’t want?
Braves are talking to more teams than just the Rays. If they want to be stingy, we don’t have to deal with them. He may be traded tonight, and he may be traded sometime in the next couple of weeks, but Soriano will be gone long before Spring Training.
December 9th, 20099:46 pm
which to follow up on rational braves fan’s point it makes complete sense to keep raffy until a team is desperate for his services (there by strengthening our pen for the time being) or just keep him for the year bc our offense will never be as good as the phils we might as well build an infinitely better staff. with word coming out that the phils are again pursuing doc, keep sori makes even more sense. lastly, just bc wren says the braves intend to trade raffy doesnt at all mean is guaranteed. last winter prvoved that for sure
December 9th, 20099:47 pm
Nick Barnese? I thought we were getting Crawford, Zobrist and Upton for Soriano. Crap, I’m going to bed.
I posted all of those guys earlier. Third base prospect Matt Sweeney is another one. They got him from the Angels in the Kazmir deal. That’d be the guy I’d want. Braves need more infield prospects.
Even more Rational Braves fan
“Maybe, maybe we might sneak in as a wild card, but face it, with Chipper pushing close to 40, our offense if horrible, and theirs not much in free agency that we can afford that’s gonna change that.”
With the Rockies, Giants, Marlins, Brewers, (possibly) improved Cubs, and (possibly) improved Mets, I don’t see much hope in the WC either.
NCBravesFan: I also remember the Rays to be rediculously unrealistic when it comes to negotiating. The tired Baldelli for the Moon trade that the Braves offered, but turned down comes to mind.
December 9th, 20099:48 pm
There are only two risks in keeping Soriano until June 15th, in the event that a team trying to trade for him right now demands upwards of 3 million dollars. Risk #1 is that Soriano gets hurt and we’re stuck with the whole bill for the year. Risk #2 is that June 15th teams still aren’t lining up for him and we’re stuck with his salary.
Both options would obviously mean that Wren would be forced to move somebody else if Liberty Media had given him permission to keep him and trade him in June. Which could suck.
I want to make it clear. If Tampa or any other team is willing to take on his whole salary and give us anything in return, I’m cool with that. Not overly happy. But either way, obviously nobody signed him, so we didn’t get draft picks, and had Wren NOT offered him arbitration, we wouldn’t have received anything anyhow. So ANYTHING we get for him is a bonus.
But I honestly believe that we shouldn’t have to shell out money for somebody to take him. Unless Wren packages him with others to get the big bat he wants. Immediate help has to come our way if we’re helping pay for Soriano’s salary.
Say for instance (and I don’t for a second think this trade happens), if the Cubs were willing to take Lowe and Soriano off our hands for Derek Lee – and Lee was willing to waive his no trade clause), and the Cubs wanted a few million dollars to help absorb some of the salary they were taking on? By all means go for it! Lee would instantly make our offense (and defense better ) while alleviating us of salary.
But for the Rays to up the ante to a “good” prospect? For 3 million dollars? No thanks.
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