Firing up the Hot Stove in chilly Indy
Indianapolis – Welcome to chilly Indy, where baseball’s hot stove will be stoked plenty this week at the annual swap meet known as the Winter Meetings, and the Braves will move forward in their plans to trade a starting pitcher –- almost certainly either Derek Lowe or Javier Vazquez — and get a hitter or two.
But first they will have to find whether Rafael Soriano’s agent is serious about his client accepting arbitration by the midnight Monday deadline for free agents to decline or accept offers made last week by their 2009 teams.
Wait a minute, dude. They want draft picks, not you....
As most of you are aware by now, Soriano’s agent, Peter Greenberg, was quoted over the weekend by ESPN.com Jerry Crasnick saying that Soriano is seriously considering accepting the arbitration offer the Braves made to reliever affectionately known here as The Scowl.
If he does, well, the Braves will have one hell of a loaded bullpen, but will have far surpassed their budgeted payroll for that area of the team. They’ll have to figure out what to do with a $7 mill (or more) salary they obviously weren’t planning on having when they signed closer Billy Wagner and setup man Takashi Saito last week to replace Soriano and fellow free agent Mike Gonzalez.
(Before we go any further, we remind you to follow breaking Braves news and our idle thoughts and random, scattershot observations on Twitter @ajcbraves. Now, back to our regularly scheduled blog….)
As I’ve said when asked about it numerous times since Greenberg’s comment — I’ve been asked what the Braves will do if he accepts; whether they could they trade Soriano, could they cut him, could they sign him to a long-term deal with a lower annual to lessen the immediate payroll hit, etc. – I tend to believe this will all become a moot point sometime before midnight Monday when Greenberg or the Braves announce that Soriano has declined the arbitration offer.
But I could certainly be wrong, and the Braves certainly will have miscalculated badly if that’s the case and Soriano accepts. Because believe me, they didn’t think there was almost any chance the intense right-hander would accept arbitration and a non-guaranteed, one-year contract that takes him off the free-agent market before that market even has time to develop. They wanted the compensatory draft picks, not this potential headache.
They didn’t think he’d take arbitration, even considering that his arb-set salary would be at least $6.5-7 million (and I think it would be closer to $7.5 million), exceeding what he’s likely to get next season if he signs a free-agent deal with another team.
Their reasoning is pretty sound, too. Because while Soriano, who had a $6.1 mill salary last season, would get at least $6.5 million if he takes the arb offer, most people around baseball believe he’ll get offers for at least two years from some clubs as a free agent, and that those offers could exceed $10 million total.
And if you’re Soriano, who had elbow problems (two surgeries) that limited him to six, seven and 14 appearances in three of the past six seasons, would you have enough confidence in your long-term health to turn down a two-year, guaranteed contract in order to take a one-year deal for 2009? And a non-guaranteed deal at that, meaning if he didn’t pitch well in spring training, the Braves could cut him and only have to pay a percentage of the contract.
See, here's the thing: They already got another....
Not to mention that if he does take arbitration and does pitch for the Braves in 2009, he would get few if any save opportunities, now that the Braves have signed Wagner to close and Saito to be a setup man and the backup closer.
In that scenario, Soriano could be going back on the free-agent market a year coming off a season in which he had no saves and worked mostly in, say, the seventh inning. As opposed to now, when he’s coming off a career-best 2009 in which he amassed 102 strikeouts (with 27 walks) in 75-2/3 innings, a 2.97 ERA, and a 1.06 WHIP and .194 opponents’ batting average, including an otherworldly 0.80 WHIP and .138 opponents’ average against right-handers.
Would he really not take those stats to the free-agent market this winter? Like the Braves, I tend to doubt it (though I don’t think I doubt it quite as much as they do, because I wouldn’t have offered him arbitration last week, just on the slim chance he’d take it and end up with, say, an $8 million salary).
And if I were them and did offer him arbitration, well, I sure don’t know if I’d have had the stomach to then sign both Wagner and Saito even before the Monday deadline for free agents to accept or decline the arb offers.
But, hey, they signed both of those guys to reasonable deals. In Wagner’s case, I’m quite sure the lefty with 385 career saves could have gotten more, maybe quite a bit more, if Wagner had just waited around to sign with the highest bidder this winter.
He didn’t want to wait, and neither did the Braves. So he’s their closer for 2010, and quite possibly for 2011 if he finishes 50 games and his vesting option becomes guaranteed (by the way, that $6.5 million option has a $250,000 buyout, which is why Wagner’s one-year contract is officially for $7 million, even though his 2010 salary is actually $6.75 million).
So does Soriano want to come back to pitch the seventh inning for a team that has moved on, so to speak, and found another closer and setup man? I guess we’ll find out by Monday midnight.
I was just thinking about how we sure haven’t heard Boras say that Gonzalez might take arbitration. Everyone would scoff if Boras said something like that, because we all know full well that he’ll get the max contract for his client, a deal that will probably exceed all expectations, as is so often the case when it comes to Boras’ clients. I’m guessing Gonzo ends up with a three-year guaranteed contract worth … oh, I’m not even going to say.
And just one more thing about Soriano. If he does surprise a lot of us by accepting arbitration, would it put a huge wrench in the Braves’ plans, the way that Greg Maddux (Boras client) did when he accepted arb years ago and the Braves had to hastily trade Kevin Millwood for Johnny Estrada to make Maddux’s salary (it ended up being $16 mill) fit into the payroll?
OK, raise your hand if you miss Greg Maddux. (Mine's raised.)
No, I don’t think it would. Because as some on the blog have correctly pointed out, the Braves could always trade Soriano between now and opening day (even if they’d wanted to they couldn’t have traded the great Maddux, who was a 10/5 guy), though they would have to have Soriano’s written permission in order to trade him before June. (If they go to him and tell him he’ll pitch the sixth or seventh inning and get no save opps this season unless Wagner is hurt, then I’m thinking the proud Soriano, who wants to close, would accept a deal.)
Or, if he didn’t pitch well in the spring, they might have cause to release him, though that might lead to a grievance being filed by the player if they didn’t have clear cause to release him (you can’t just release a guy because you don’t like his contract).
Anyway, something tells me that at some point Monday or Monday night, this whole discussion is going to become a moot point. By then I’m guessing that a team or three will have either made offers to Soriano’s agent, or at least indicated what they’re likely to offer, and the official rejection of arbitration will be made.
But if I’m wrong, my misreading the situation sure isn’t going to cost me like it could potentially cost the Braves.
♣ The hitter they seek: Once that Soriano matter is resolved, our attention can be focused squarely on the bigger matter at hand, right? And that is, can the Braves find someone willing to take at least the bulk of Lowe’s contract off the Braves’ hands so they’ll have plenty of cash to pay a big (or semi-big) bopper, either a free agent or one acquired via trade (did someone say Nelson Cruz? Or Josh Willingham? Or maybe you think the Braves should or will aim for the moon and cough up the prospects it would take if San Diego were to trade Adrian Gonzalez? Anyway….)
Or, rather than finding a trade partner for Lowe, will the Braves leave the meetings convinced that it’s not going to happen, that no team is going to be willing to trade for him without demanding that the Braves eat more of his contract than they are willing to consume?
Did you hear? This guy might be available for multiple top prospects. Operative words: might, multiple, top, prospects.
And in that case, would they immediately suspend thoughts of signing Vazquez to an extension and start taking serious offers for the righty who had a 2.87 ERA and 238 strikeouts in 219-1/3 innings in 2009, his third consecutive season with at least 200 strikeouts and 10th consecutive season with double-digit wins (15)?
If you do trade Vazquez, then do you insist on a quality young hitter you can control for at least a couple of years, and maybe a solid prospect or two?
Oh, it’s going to get interesting soon, folks.
Here’s what Wren said last week when asked whether he thought John Lackey, the top free-agent starter on the market, needed to sign with someone to set the market before the other pitching dominoes would start to fall.
“I think teams have to have some sense of what the market is,” Wren said. “It’s the unknown that makes it difficult for clubs. I think once they get a sense … the top guy doesn’t necessarily have to sign, but the top guy has to have kind of a market established, because that will obviously create some players and create some non-players [for his services].”
About that aging closer: Wagner will turn 39 right after the All-Star break next season, but the Braves obviously weren’t too concerned about his age or the fact he missed most of last season recovering from Tommy John surgery.
The Braves are expecting him to be the most consistent closer they’ve had since John Smoltz was in the role. (Smoltz had 44 saves in 2004 at age 37, for those wondering.)
“When you look at a closer whose career is 86-percent efficiency, that’s extremely high numbers for a closer,” Wren said, referring to Wagner’s career save conversion rate. “Anytime you get over 80 percent you’re really good, and for his career he’s 86 percent.”
The Braves are really pumped about having a guy as accomplished as Wagner coming in to close games.
“He’s everything you’d want him to be,” Wren said. “He’s fearless. He’s a guy who goes out there and has quality stuff. And I think we felt even considering the good job that our guys [Soriano and Gonzalez] did a year ago, we had Billy ranked higher in our evaluation.”
On old guys as closers, Wren said: “That role’s a little different. You see what Trevor Hoffman is doing. Obviously he’s a different type of guy [than Wagner], but those guys can pitch later in their caree. The one inning at a time, and Bobby takes care of him… We don’t have any doubts that he can still be a top-notch closer.”
♣ Speaking of Boras… Don’t know how I forgot to share this with you, but I did. It was during a conversation I had with Boras a couple of weeks ago, when I called him to ask about Gonzalez and the lefty’s switch to Boras as his agent late last season.
I got to talking to Boras about Lowe possibly being traded — “He’s a veteran player; he understands when you sign contract without a no-trade clasue that you’re going to be talked about [in trade rumors],” Boras said — and then I asked him about another of his Braves clients, Jair Jurrjens.
Many of you have wondered, as I have, whether the Braves might approach the 23-year-old pitcher about a long-term contract extension well before he reaches free agency (he’ll be arb-eligible for the first time after the 2010 season).
I asked Boras, and his response might surprise you. (Even the fact that he did respond might surprise some of you.)
“You let him know the opportunity exists, and when a club approaches we’ll go over it,” Boras said. “We have signed players to multi-year contracts before they’re free agents – [Mark] Teixeira, Matt Holliday, Prince Fielder….”
Boras sings the praises of Jurrjens, just as Bobby Cox and the Braves do. Great kid, very intelligent, hard worker, blah blah blah. (Hey, and it’s all true, from everything I’ve seen of Jair, and from everyone I’ve talked to about him.)
Oh, and did we mention Penelope Cruz stars in two new movies?
It’s kind of scary to think what kind of contract figures Boras might be looking for if the Braves came to Jurrjens about an extension. But the kid seems to enjoy pitching for the Braves, and even when they were providing him with almost no run support for much of last season, he handled it with maturity and never blamed anyone.
He ended up with just a 14-10 record and sparkling 2.60 ERA. For his career, Jurrjens is 30-21 with a 3.21 ERA and 1.276 WHIP in 72 starts (seven with Detroit, 65 with the Braves). Just as a reminder, he’s seven months older than Tommy Hanson.
“Jair’s doing great,” Boras said. “I think Frank’s put together a phenomenal starting pitching staff, and that’s always been the core of Atlanta’s’s success. Obviously they’re a bat away from being the team they want to be, but you’ve got to remember, they were in a lot of games [in 2009]. Just offensively, they fell short.”
♣ OK, let’s close this with one from a great band that not enough people have heard (and here’s a video of them doing this tune).
“INDIANAPOLIS” by the Bottle Rockets
Got a tow from a guy named Joe
Cost sixty dollars hope I don’t run out of dough
Told me bout a sex offense ‘put him three days in jail
Stuck in Indianapolis, hope I live to tell the tale
*
Can’t go west, can’t go east
I’m stuck in Indianapolis with a fuel pump that’s deceased
Ten days on the road now I’m four hours from my home town
Is this hell or Indianapolis with no way to get around
*
Called my girl to tell her of the trouble that I’d had
First time I called her in ten days, guess that made her mad
Far as she’s concerned I belong in this Hoosier state
Stuck in Indianapolis with no way to set things straight
*
Can’t go west, can’t go east
I’m stuck in Indianapolis with a fuel pump that’s deceased
Ten days on the road now I’m four hours from my home town
Is this hell or Indianapolis with no way to get around
*
Sitting in this bar is getting more than I can stand
If I could catch a ride I really think I’d ditch this van
Who knows what this repair will cost, scared to spend a dime
I’ll puke if that jukebox plays John Cougar one more time
*
If I ever leave here I hope never to return
If I get that van back, Man, the road I’m gonna burn
Right now my future’s in the hand of them boys down at Firestone
Stuck in Indianapolis feeling all alone
*
Can’t go west, can’t go east
I’m stuck in Indianapolis with a fuel pump that’s deceased
Ten days on the road now I’m four hours from my home town
Is this hell or Indianapolis with no way to get around
Is this hell or Indianapolis with no way to get around
2,843 comments Add your comment
N8
December 7th, 2009
12:55 am
I’m copying my last two posts into one on the new blog. Fire away:
“You’re trading for 1 year of a 2-to-3-win player (Dunn)….”
Are you really, honestly, no bullsh!t telling me that there is a stat out there or a stat analysis system, that claims that a guy like Adam Dunn is only worth about 2-3 wins per year for a team that has no cleanup hitter, and plenty of pitching if they rid themselves of Derek Lowe’s contract?
Dunn hit 38 HR, slugged at a .529 pace with an OPS of .928 last year.
I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that he would have helped us win more games than 2 or 3 last year if inserted in our lineup.
Because, if a cleanup hitter with those numbers is only good for 2 or 3 wins, WTF is everybody so damn desperate about adding a cleanup hitter for?
Wren should pray to his god that Soriano AND Gonzalez accept arbitration, keep all 6 starting pitches and just pitch our way to the WS.
I’m not the biggest Dunn fan in the world. But I’m also not stupid enough to believe any stat that states he’s only “good” for 2 or 3 wins.
What about what he’d do for Chipper? What about making the lineup deeper with McCann and Escobar dropping lower in the order?
I love stats as much as the next guy, but I swear the morons that come up with these stat systems and theories have never actually watched the game before.
Just counting HR, our cleanup and 5th place hitters hit 43 HR last year. Mac had 21 HR (20 batting cleanup, 1 batting 5th).
Insert Dunn at cleanup and drop Mac to 5th. Assuming the stats remain the same, that gives us 59 HR in the 4th and 5th hole of the lineup.
Anybody out there honestly think with all the low scoring games last year that we choked away, that 16 more HR in the middle of our order are only good for 2 or 3 more wins?
Now on to OPS. Our cleanup hitters had a combined OPS of .808 last year, and the 5th place hitters had an OPS of .739.
If you put Dunn 4th (.928 OPS) and Mac 5th (.834) for the majority of those AB’s, I’ve got to believe that the results for the offense, change drastically.
Not to mention all the people blaming poor protection on Chipper’s bad year, his results would have been different, not?
Nolie, you’re a scout. Would Adam Dunn batting cleanup for the Braves in 2009 helped them win more than 3 games, in your opinion?
nolie
December 7th, 2009
12:55 am
Good blog. thanx
N8
December 7th, 2009
12:56 am
Hey…. I was FIRST!!! Don’t know if that’s ever happened.
Brave's Next Power Hitter
December 7th, 2009
12:59 am
I hope for Mike Cameron, and LaRoche, If you get higher than sweet.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
1:00 am
DOB, I like your little comment under the picture of Soriano. Very true.
Just the thought of seeing “Braves land Gonzalez” makes you excited. After that Tex mess I doubt they’d do another blockbuster requiring so many good prospects to be traded. Never know though.
Steve
December 7th, 2009
1:02 am
Somehow, if it comes to the point Soriano actually accepts arbitration, I doubt teams will be lining up for him in this market for relief pitchers.
And I’m still not sure trading Soriano is allowed by MLB rules until June 15th.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
1:03 am
Don’t forget to check out the video link to that Bottle Rockets song….
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
1:05 am
DOB, I probably won’t like Bottle Rockets, but I’ll not judge just yet. If I say it’s good then it’s good music. Gimmie a minute.
Bad Scooter
December 7th, 2009
1:06 am
a good late night blog DOB
Goldenglove002
December 7th, 2009
1:10 am
Thanks for new blog DOB. Should we expect another one if there is a big move mid-week?
Can’t wait to see what FW has up his sleeve this week. Should be fun
N8
December 7th, 2009
1:10 am
P.W. from the other blog:
“Well, he has a 6-win bat, but there are other things involved in production. Like fielding, where he’s a -2-3 win player, and baserunning, where he sucks, and position scarcity, and he plays a position with a very high replacement level.”
Oh, I get it and understand it. But I think it’s all relative to each specific team.
If you replace Tex on the Yankees roster with Dunn, he might be worth negative wins, when you factor in his defense and what not.
But we’re talking about a guy who in 2009 would have been signed INSTEAD OF Loaf. So, essentially, the defense and baserunning is a wash. And then what you’re left with is the offense.
Which is exactly what the Braves were lacking in the middle of their order.
I think saying Dunn would have only been worht 6 more wins had he been on the team instead of Loaf, is even an understatement.
For the 2009 Atlanta Braves (in hindsight of course), with Adam Dunn’s bat from the get go in LF, we go to the playoffs.
Of course, money wise it changes everything last year. Perhaps the McLouth deal doesn’t happen, more than likely the LaRoche deal doesn’t happen.
But with his (Dunn’s) bat in the middle of the order, perhaps those deals are never necessary? No way of knowing.
I hope this clarifies where I’m coming from.
As for 2010? I think trading Adam Dunn even up for Derek Lowe would be a steal.
It would rid us of 2 extra years (30 million dollars), and get us our bridge to Heyward and Freeman. While giving the Nats a proven veteran to anchor one of 5 spots in their rotation for the next 3 years.
This team doesn’t need Lowe, especially if Vazquez stays, and I’ve questioned whether we need either of them if the right bats are added, and the bullpen is fixe (which it appears to have been).
Steve
December 7th, 2009
1:10 am
The market just is not there; a good number of players with decent save numbers are available, and on top of that only a few teams (Nationals, Orioles and the Cubs) have the money available to spend on a “premium” closer. Gonzalez, Gregg, Lyon, Putz, Rodney and Valverde, are all competing with Soriano for a limited supply of available money from a limited supply of teams. And that doesn’t include closers like Matt Capps and Heath Bell whose teams have made it known they’re also available.
The market is bad for relievers and Soriano might be absolutely right to take arbitration for the highest salary he can get for 2010.
Mainer
December 7th, 2009
1:11 am
Hey DOB, its 1:10 my time no news or Soriano. Safe to say we can now pursue a bat?
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
1:11 am
N8,
I replied on the other thread. Basically, he’s a 6-win bat at a -1 position with a -2-3 glove.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
1:11 am
Not terrible music at all. Sounds like a bar song that people karaoke to, but I can listen to that over rap any day.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
1:11 am
Not terrible music at all. Sounds like a bar song that people karaoke to, but I can listen to that over rap any day.
Mainer
December 7th, 2009
1:12 am
I’m hoping for a first day of the WM deal
Bobby Hill
December 7th, 2009
1:12 am
So what’s the most likely scenario with regard to the “big bat.” With all of the different possibilities is there anything to indicate what the most probable outcome is?
N8
December 7th, 2009
1:13 am
P.W., I saw it. Scroll up to 1:10 to see my response, if you haven’t already.
nolie
December 7th, 2009
1:14 am
you’re a scout. Would Adam Dunn batting cleanup for the Braves in 2009 helped them win more than 3 games, in your opinion? N8
they won 86 without him surely they could have won three with him. j/k
stats are used to assess past performance and predict future performance and the most effective ones are as clean as can be. I love stats too, have since I was a kid, and i am a believer in many of the newer ones-including park adjustments.
However, I’m not a true believer in the more speculative ones. When they start saying that such and such is worth so and so that starts to get more subjective than I am comfortable with due to assumptions being made, and each system created by someone brings their own personal set of assumptions. That’s why there are differences in the results.
For cripes sakes when Bill James originally brought out WinShares I think it was it had a fudge factor built right into the equation. If it didn’t work out the way you thought it should just modify the fudge factor, thus coming up with Biggio being one of the 50 greatest players of all time.
That’s a blatant example but all are less reliable than I am comfortable with.
In general they help some, but like the predictions that we see for what a player will do next year, they can be very close or not even in the park. there are just too many variables in the game for stats to ever be anywhere near perfect, and there are “intangibles’ that can not be measured in any way. They are laughed at by statguys but anybody who has actually played for a long time knows that they occur at least sometimes. Even if they are nothing more than coincidence, stats can’t measure coincidence either.
All that is to say that there is no way to really know how many games Dunn would have added to the win total. I would guess that in that specific situation given those hitters involved that he would probably have added more than 3 wins to that team’s totals, and I am not a Dunn fan.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
1:14 am
Mainer: The deadline is nearly 23 hours from now. Wrong midnight.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
1:17 am
Can you believe the Falcons must now go 3-1 the rest of the way to snap their unbelievable streak of never having consecutive winning seasons?
nolie
December 7th, 2009
1:17 am
And I’m still not sure trading Soriano is allowed by MLB rules until June 15th Steve
you can’t understand the difference between free agents and guys who accept arb? It was quoted out of the book that they are not the same. Free agents can’t be, but if a guy accepts arb he is never considered a free agent so it does not apply to him. It might be a challenge to get him traded, but it is legal.
Mainer
December 7th, 2009
1:18 am
ahh sorry man i was mistaken, thought it was today.
Well he is one of the top arms out there i hope he is just trying to pry offers from other teams.
N8
December 7th, 2009
1:18 am
Thanks nolie. Well explained. Plus it sounds like you kind of, sort of agree with me. Which makes me like the response even more. LOL.
Mainer
December 7th, 2009
1:19 am
The Falcons are pissing me off, if they don’t get a winning season this year and i have to hear about this for another 2 years im gonna blow. Just pathetic.
jed
December 7th, 2009
1:22 am
N8: agreed, man. 2-3 wins is a ridiculous estimate.
N8
December 7th, 2009
1:24 am
P.W., have you bothered taking all of the Braves players that were on the team last year for various amounts of time, and calculating their +/- win totals with the actual amount of wins (86) the Braves had last year, and see how it calculates?
I’m curious to see how accurate it is or isn’t. Or at least how accurate it was going into last year, and how the year turned out. I realize that that might take time, I also realize you might say screw off and don’t want to figure it out. But if you do calculate it out, let me know how it turns out.
Zack Jones
December 7th, 2009
1:25 am
Go braves & saints
Mainer
December 7th, 2009
1:26 am
you’re a braves & saints fan? Thats just sickening bro ham
jed
December 7th, 2009
1:27 am
nolie: nice job of breaking that down and articulating it.
nolie
December 7th, 2009
1:28 am
ou kind of, sort of agree with me. Which makes me like the response even more N8
kinda sorta.
the system is very theoretical and can provide guidelines, but when applied to specific situations the possibilities for variance are great. The stats say “this is what will happen” which means that the odds are in favor of that, but anything can and does happen under a modified bell curve, and although 90+ percent happen within + or – 3 standard deviations-which within itself can cause major differences, there is always the possibility that the specific event might be one which falls even farther from the mean.
True believers believe -obviously -like PWH, realists realize the limitations inherent in a system with so many variables, skeptics scoff. That covers most things in life including statistical analysis
N8
December 7th, 2009
1:30 am
“It might be a challenge to get him traded, but it is legal.” nolie
I don’t really think it will/would be a challenge to trade him outright. But it might be a challenge to trade him for prospects that are equal in Wren’s mind to the value that those two picks would have been worth at some point.
But each step of the phase has to be taken into account as he goes. Wren assumed Soriano wasn’t going to accept arbitration, and thus Wren was salivating over the draft picks.
If Soriano does accept, he either has to accept that he accepted (LOL) and use him in the pen. Or unfortunately, take what he can get for him.
But wouldn’t it suck, if Soriano accepts, and we get zero draft picks for him upon trading him. Then if Gonzo is signed by a team who signs a higher rated Type A free agent, meaning we’d get a sandwhich and a second, along with losing our first for Wagner?
To go from the possibility of a week ago, of maybe capping out at two 1st and 3 sandwhich picks from Soriano, Gonzo and LaRoche, to basically having a no firsts in next year’s draft?
That’s why draft picks should be allowed to be traded.
nolie
December 7th, 2009
1:35 am
BTW I was nor denigrating PWH in that last statement.
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
1:36 am
So, essentially, the defense and baserunning is a wash. And then what you’re left with is the offense.
Well, actually, Adam Dunn is phenomenally bad in the field and Loaf is only bad. For instance, Dunn’s 2009 UZR was -36.3. Loaf’s was -11.8. That’s actually a two win difference. (…By the way, holy sh!t, I can’t believe there is someone 2-wins worse than Garret Anderson in the field. That is amazing to me…)
Loaf was a +1 bat in 2009. -1 fielder, and -1 position.
Dunn was a +6 bat in 2009. -3.5 fielder, and -1 positional.
Loaf was a -1 win player in 2009. Dunn was a ~+1.5 win player in 2009.
Given that Dunn would’ve fixed the biggest systematic weakness of the team in 2009–the inability to hit for power–it’s fair to assume he’d be more than a +2.5 win upgrade over Garret Anderson. Especially given the Braves scoring and allowing tendencies (teams with low scoring and allowing tendencies disproportionately improve by adding offense, teams with high scoring and allowing tendencies disproportionately improve by adding defense/pitching).
The discussion I intended to engage was (not one that had anything to do with Loaf, but) the one regarding trading Lowe, Schafer, and $15 million for Adam Dunn, stating it was a lop-sided deal and the Braves shouldn’t do it. That doesn’t mean I don’t like Dunn or anything, I just wouldn’t make the deal. Purely in terms of value, the Braves give away far more than they receive. No matter how much I like Dunn, that’s a stupid trade.
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
1:43 am
I’m pretty sure I’m a realist, if not a skeptic.
nolie
December 7th, 2009
1:44 am
Loaf was a +1 bat in 2009. -1 fielder, and -1 position.
Dunn was a +6 bat in 2009. -3.5 fielder, and -1 positional.
Loaf was a -1 win player in 2009. Dunn was a ~+1.5 win player in 2009. PWH
only if you accept all the assumptions that are built into those systems. It’s a guideline, it ain’t God’s word. and it is almost never exactly right.It it could even be close we could forgo playing the games and just analyze each team and present trophies all in a few days. I like it better playing them all out.
nolie
December 7th, 2009
1:46 am
’m pretty sure I’m a realist, if not a skeptic.
I think you’re a true believer like Shaun. We need all kinds and I ‘m not putting you down.
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
1:48 am
P.W., have you bothered taking all of the Braves players that were on the team last year for various amounts of time, and calculating their +/- win totals with the actual amount of wins (86) the Braves had last year, and see how it calculates?
I’m curious to see how accurate it is or isn’t. Or at least how accurate it was going into last year, and how the year turned out. I realize that that might take time, I also realize you might say screw off and don’t want to figure it out. But if you do calculate it out, let me know how it turns out.
I’m not entirely sure I understand what you’re talking about, but I think you mean taking all the Braves players win values (WAR, WARP, or whatever comprehensive win-value metric you want to use) and comparing them to the 2009 Braves actual win total?
I haven’t. I could probably accomplish that rather quickly using BPro’s stats page. The problem is, I’m really never clear on their assumption of replacement level. Everyone seems to have their own idea. Anywhere from .250-.330 winning percentage.
If I assume the replacement level is a .300 winning percentage and it’s actually a .270 winning percentage, this is a problem.
I’ll see what I can do.
N8
December 7th, 2009
1:49 am
P.W., that’s cool. I know I jumped in on the discussion and kind of changed directions with it.
I can’t get on board with giving up Lowe and Schafer for Dunn. Like I said. I’m not actually a fan of Dunn’s. Last winter I wanted Abreu or Ibanez, and said it repeatedly while everybody wanted Dunn or Burrell.
Add to that, I was ALL ABOUT getting Lowe, LOL! But Lowe was exactly what the 2009 Braves needed to NOT be like the 2008 Braves. A pitcher that remains healthy and eats innings.
Dunn might very well be a guy that’s exactly what the 2010 Braves lineup needs to not be like the 2009 lineup. Raw power. Hard to say.
But I’m with you on the defense.
My argument was that you just can’t take that stat analysis system and predetermine that Dunn would have only been worth 2-3 more wins for the 2009 Atlanta Braves, had he replaced Loaf.
I’m just not buying it. Call me stubborn, call me unwilling to accept the theory and stats being thrown out there, but in a “one for one” trade of Dunn for Loaf I think he’s worth more than 3 more wins. Not to mention (again) what he would have done in terms of relieving pressure off of Chipper and Mac.
Hell, maybe with Dunn batting cleanup, Jeff would have had more success. LOL!
I just think in hindsight (I wasn’t that worried about the lack of power in our lineup last off-season), that Dunn’s 38 HR put us in the playoffs last year. Assuming that all other pieces remained in place and came at the times they did (Hanson, McLouth, Church and LaRoche). Financially that’s a lot to assume, and I realize it wouldn’t have happened that way.
But strictly swapping him for Loaf nets us more than 3 more wins, imo.
Thanks for the back and forth in a civil manner.
nolie
December 7th, 2009
1:53 am
I could probably accomplish that rather quickly using BPro’s stats page. The problem is, I’m really never clear on their assumption of replacement level. Everyone seems to have their own idea. Anywhere from .250-.330 winning percentage. PWH
that is one ofthe main subjective problems that I was referring to. don’t get me wrong I find that stuff interesting and enjoy your posts
N8
December 7th, 2009
1:54 am
“If it could even be close we could forgo playing the games and just analyze each team and present trophies all in a few days. I like it better playing them all out.” nolie
Post of the night. LOVE IT! I like the games too. I need all 162 games to gripe with “in game” blogging. No way I could bitch that much over a 3 day period.
P.W., that’s pretty much what I was asking. If you have a way of calculating it quickly (using any system or theory you’d like), that’s cool. Go for it.
I’m just curious how accurate they are.
Like baseball-reference’s site uses the “Pythagorian W-L” comparison, which had us as a 91-71 team, compared to the actual 86-76 record.
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
1:55 am
only if you accept all the assumptions that are built into those systems. It’s a guideline, it ain’t God’s word. and it is almost never exactly right.It it could even be close we could forgo playing the games and just analyze each team and present trophies all in a few days. I like it better playing them all out.
Everything you said is true. I feel like you and N8 are familiar with me enough to realize that I also know this and assume yall do too and I don’t explicitly state it for the purposes of saving time. You ain’t gotta tell me what I already know. In fact, I’m oft making the same argument you just did to people who are slaves of fangraphs.
’m pretty sure I’m a realist, if not a skeptic.
True believer? Nah. Realist or skeptic. Skeptical realist, really.
Cherokee
December 7th, 2009
1:56 am
Wow, very good hour there my friends.
Right or wrong that is what this board should be about for the most part
N8
December 7th, 2009
2:01 am
“only if you accept all the assumptions that are built into those systems.” nolie
Earlier you talked about coincidence and intangibles. I always think back to Bonds’ “16 hopper” to the plate in the 92 NLCS attempting to get Bream at the plate.
That was an absolutely horrible throw, by a guy that was generally thought of as a good to great OF (he won his 3rd straight GG – on his way to winning 8 total), trying to get one of the slowest runners in MLB at the time.
My assumption (right or wrong) is that if you give Bonds 100 attempts to get Bream on that play, he probably throws him out more than he doesn’t.
Stat analysis systems and theories can’t predict pressure, nerves, etc… Which is why it’s so hard to buy what they’re selling.
Dunn might very well be a horrible defender. But who’s to say he doesn’t make a “season saving” catch or throw on defense at some point?
I know those are small sample sizes and what not. But…..
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
2:02 am
Vazquez 8.9
Jurrjens 8.6
Yunel 7.5
Hanson 5.1
McCann 4.6
Chipper 4.2
Soriano 4.2
Ross 3.5
Prado 3.6
Kawakami 3.5
Daiz 3.0
Gonzalez 3.1
LaRoche 2.8
Lowe 1.9
Moylan 2.0
Kotchman 1.7
Hudson 1.4
Infante 1.4
Johnson 1.5
McLouth 1.3
Bennett 1.2
O’Flaherty 1.1
Medlen 0.9
Acosta 0.7
Loaf 0.9
Sammons 0.2
Francoeur 0.6
Parr 0.1
Conrad 0.1
B. Jones 0.1
Valdez 0.1
Brian Barton 0.0
Boone Logan -0.1
Vladimir Nunez -0.1
Ryan Church -0.1
Jorge Campillo -0.1
Reid Gorecki -0.3
Gregor Blanck -0.3
Barbaro Canizares -0.4
Greg Norton -0.4
Jo-Jo Reyes -0.7
Buddy Carlyle -0.7
Diory Hernandez -0.6
Blaine Boyer -1.0
Jordan Schafer -1.8
There’s your WARP3 values, N8.
nolie
December 7th, 2009
2:02 am
Nah. Realist or skeptic. Skeptical realist, really. PWH
Ok. good talk with da both of youse
nolie
December 7th, 2009
2:06 am
There’s your WARP3 values, N8. PWH
I always think that they set the replacement player level too low
wilymo
December 7th, 2009
2:06 am
Sounds like Valverde is considering accepting arbitration as well… http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/valverde-may-accept-arbitration.html
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
2:07 am
That’s a total of 73.2 WARP3. Which is obviously a problem, since a .250 win team wins 40 games, and the Braves aren’t a 114 win team.
N8
December 7th, 2009
2:08 am
“I feel like you and N8 are familiar with me enough to realize that I also know this…” P.W.
Totally man. I wasn’t trying to jump down your throat. Just talking. Nothing more. Hell, 3 weeks ago I wasn’t sold on the whole park adjustment stuff. Still not completely sold on it. But understand it more than I did a few weeks ago.
It’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks. In the end, I just love talkin’ baseball. Especially when it’s at a time of the year where EVERYTHING is assumption and predictions based on past results.
Once the games start getting played, all that’s out the window. The results speak for themselves. This is the time of year for skeptics to be skeptical, and hope to run rampant with every move or non-move.
I’m a different blogger in the off-season. I love this time of year. Love the games too, but for a team that has missed the playoffs 4 years running, as fans hope is what fuels the anticipation of the upcoming season.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
2:48 am
Very interesting back and forth for the past few hours.
Great blog DOB.
I am a throw back. I know that a lot of the new fangled stats have merit, but dang it, I like the old stuff too. I get a bit turned off when I read that a guy like Dunn was only good for 1.5 wins last year. Just ain’t buying it. When someone wants to hang their hat on that, then I shake my head and start to question the validity of that stat.
Maybe in a few years, we can get to a point where we don’t play the season at all. We just throw out fan graphs, park adjusted and Obewankanobee (sp) and just go straight to the playoffs.
I am being a bit facetious, as most of you know, but when I start feeling like the stats thrown out are more intended for fantasy baseball than actually playing the real game, I get a bit turned off.
Let’s hope Soriano declines arbitration, as I believe he will, so we can get on with building the 2010 Atlanta Braves!
One of the reasons I get frustrated with Scott Boras is due to his penchant for dragging the negotiations out so far, that he affects how some teams end up building their team.
Soriano rejects, Braves non tender Church and KJ, and do not resign LaRoche. Deal Lowe for some prospects for a first baseman. There would be enough $$$ or a Jason Bay signing. Offer 18 million per for 4 years w/ a generous 5th year option if he gets over 500 plate appearances averaged for his last 2 years……
Would that be enough to get it done?
I will check in tomorrow for your thoughts.
Coach (2011 or Bust)
December 7th, 2009
2:51 am
N8 just give it up man, the stat heads are always right, or didn’t you know that already
W.A.R, WARP, VORP or FART if that’s what they wish to call it, the game on the field is what really counts. As for Adam Dunn, I still wouldn’t want him on my team for the simple reason that he is a one dimensional player (all offense, No defense).However great his offensive contribution, it is overrated due to all the opposing offense he gives up in RF and 1B due to his total lack of defense.
Bobby's Cox
December 7th, 2009
2:59 am
Wanna bet? Gentlemen’s wager. I say he declines arbitration, and that his agent said what he did because he’s doing his job and trying to gauge interest and get teams interested in Soriano to call with at least preliminary offers by tomorrow DOB
I hope you’re right and I’m wrong DOB
This should be an exciting week. Thanks in advance for all the updates. I’ll be checking your twitter updates from my phone constantly.
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
2:59 am
Coach- exactly what stat categories would FART stand for? Sounds like something Andruw Jones probably led the Braves team in, wouldn’t you say?
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
2:59 am
ROLL TIDE
SAINTS RULE
Good night and may God Bless you all.
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
3:08 am
Redstick19
You wouldn’t be from Baton Rouge would you?
Moby Grape
December 7th, 2009
3:08 am
N8 just give it up man, the stat heads are always right, or didn’t you know that already Coach
you either didn’t read or were incapable of comprehending what was being said. Nobody claimed that stats were perfect. You’re still just as big an idiotic jerk as you always were I see. Oh well, that can be fun for me too.
Bobby's Cox
December 7th, 2009
3:17 am
I’m liking Boras’ responses about the Braves and in particular Jurrjens.
Agents can have an influence in players, as I’m sure Boras does. But his response kinda indicates that they’re open to a long-term Jurrjens contract. Jair grew up a huge Braves fan, & I’d bet he wants to stay & Boras kinda knows it. Agents for the most part, work on behalf of their client, so if Jair wants to stay, he will, regardless of his agent’s reputation. If Jair has another strong season, they’ll probably discuss “locking him up” next offseason.
Bobby's Cox
December 7th, 2009
3:26 am
I’m hoping for a Nelson Cruz trade this week. C’mon Wren.
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
3:27 am
D-back Mac- yes, I would. You?
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
3:30 am
Nawlins by way of south Alabama.
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
3:35 am
D-backMac- good to hear of other South Louisiana people on here. Born and raised and live first 31 years of life in ‘the stick.” Traded that in for beaches of NW Florida and a wife 4 years ago. Still miss that place, though. It’ll always be home. Geaux Tigers and March on, Saints! However, I cannot run with you on Alabama. Louisiana/LSU boys do not pull for the Tide- but sure looks like your boys have good shot at a national title. Just remember: Saban was our coach first… Take it easy, D-Back.
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
3:36 am
Born in Renton, WA, now living in NW Florida. A great many stops in between.
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
3:37 am
I live in Jay, FL. You?
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
3:38 am
D-Back: What part of NW Florida? I’m in Panama City Beach.
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
3:39 am
You’ve got to pull for the SEC though. I always do, no matter who comes out on top.
Grape Moby
December 7th, 2009
3:39 am
Idiotic Jerk?
Go look in the mirror. Hypocrisy loves itself.
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
3:41 am
D-back- That’s cool, just an hour or so away then. Time for me to hit the sack, man. About to fall asleep at keyboard. Take care, I’ll try to watch for you from now on when I’m on here…
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
3:42 am
As much as it pains me to admit it I even pulled for Saban’s Tigers.
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
3:43 am
Good night and God bless, see ya later.
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
3:44 am
SEC, yes… but I don’t have to like it when it comes to Alabama. Just yanking your chain, of course I’ll pull for the Tide to win a title. (he says grinding his teeth)
Moby Grape
December 7th, 2009
4:05 am
Go look in the mirror. Hypocrisy loves itself Grape Moby
you should know jackass.Coach.Like usual comes on here and throws out a totally worthless remark that shows his ignorance and inability to comprehend what he reads. Why do you think he’s always copy/pasting thinks and claiming them as his own. Guy is a loser, as are you if you can’t see it. If you aren’t coach it had nothing whatsoever to do with you.
Dopey Ape
December 7th, 2009
4:20 am
Why come around once a day to belittle bloggers while never providing content or insight yourself? That’s all Moby Grape ever does.
Moby Grape
December 7th, 2009
4:31 am
Why come around once a day to belittle bloggers while never providing content or insight yourself? That’s all Moby Grape ever does.
so I can have the pleasure of talking to jerks like you hypocritical azzwipe. I do contribute when I have time but like Coach you are probably incapable of comprehending it. I have an idea instead of being a cowardly POC who uses a fake fake name, who not just be man enough to post to me in your usual blog name so all can see who the cowardly POC is.Keep throwing out your stupid comments in your silly little cowardly noms de idiot. pitiful pathetic little person who can’t let the rest of the blog know who is such a hypocrite. man up little bitty bubba
ncgary
December 7th, 2009
4:58 am
heres hoping wren cleans up at the winter meetings and fleeces a couple other gms out of some low priced future superstars
little bitty bubbu
December 7th, 2009
5:29 am
Somebody needs a hug…..LOL
OMG, I haven’t laughed this hard in a while while reading the comments from our anonymous and fearless blog CAPTAIN. Go head on Dude! You rule the sandbox HAHAHAHA!!!!
Cherokee
December 7th, 2009
6:00 am
Somebody needs a hug…..LOL
LBB
I’m not sure if you are the same poster as the other one who was too craven to use his normal name, but one or both of you hiding behind a double blind of anonymity would have to be an excellent poster to provide half the meaningful content and insights that Moby has over the years.
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 7th, 2009
6:27 am
CB and McFann,
Bob Rathburn rumor isn’t true…
MitchC
December 7th, 2009
6:47 am
Dave, the Braves were completely foolish for offering Sori and Gonzo arbitration. This team isnt.. the Yankees, where we can afford to sign any player we want. We either shouldnt have signed Wagner, or we definitely shouldnt have offered arb to Sori and Gonzo. It will be a disaster if either of them accepts it.
As I see it, we definitely have enough starting pitching, and the pen with Wagner and Sakito is set/ What this team needs, badly, is one more hitter, especially with Chipper on the decline, and so often injured, and Mccann being our only other true power threat.
Hopefully, such a scenario with Gonzo or Sori accepting arb will be moot. We’ll say goodbye to them, and can then focus on trading a starting pitcher, to get that one more bat that should propel us to the playoffs in 2010 if everyone else is healthy and performs as they should
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 7th, 2009
6:53 am
and Mccann being our only other true power threat.
If even that!
*Gives an evil glare @ McFann!*
Marc in FL
December 7th, 2009
7:05 am
New blog OMG OMG OMG!
Something big is going to happen this offseason. One fact about Wren is he likes proven talent, and I think he’ll go for a proven bat this offseason while making taking a gamble on a one year fill-in at either 1B or OF (depending on what proven bat he gets first).
Should be a fun offseason still, and as long as our bullpen holds up I think we’ll have a legit shot in 2010!
CB
December 7th, 2009
7:19 am
Jurrjens4LCY,thanks for the info on Rathbun. Did it say who might be the next guy?
FoxNoise.net
December 7th, 2009
7:26 am
If Wren overloads the bullpen with salary that will be the second straight season he’s mismanaged the team’s finances. Maybe he should let his wife handle it.
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 7th, 2009
7:27 am
CB,
No. But they said it might still could be him…
He apologized and he won’t get his news from http://www.fakenews.com anymore
PWHjort,
Here are my top 3 Braves games:
1. June 2 vs. Cubs (Frenchy ties game in 9th, Chips win in 12th, pisses off my silly gay Cubs fans)
2. August 8 at Dodgers (KK pitches like a machine, KJ goes yard in extra frames, Esco’s play)
3. August 7 at Dodgers (Ump blows call, screws Jurrjens, Johnson/McLouth/Loafy win game)
Now I’m off for school!
Go Mondays: “The Happiest Day of the Week!”
PWillie
December 7th, 2009
7:27 am
That was a super blog David. Thanks for the insight and info.
NCBravesFan
December 7th, 2009
7:52 am
FoxNoise: how exactly has Wren mismanaged the finances? If Soriano declines arb, the Braves get a draft pick and if he accepts they get him for a few months and then will trade him (or someone else) for most likely an even better return.
Also, he did overpay for Lowe, but that was due to the fact that the Braves were coming off a 92 loss season. It’s hard to convince prime FAs to join losing teams – and that 4th year for Lowe was the difference maker between him being a Brave and being a Met.
John Tucker
December 7th, 2009
7:55 am
Hey, Davey, if the Braves won’t pay the price to get Adrian Gonzalez, then how about a straight up trade of Lowe and Chipper to Detroit for Miguel Cabrera and Edwin Jackson? Of course, Cabrera needs to promise to attend AAA, but it would allow CHipper to DH and prolong his playing days; and it would allow the Braves a salary dump of about $3 million.You could throw in Clint Sammons, Blanco, Parr, Canizaro and maybe even a real prospect.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
7:58 am
“how about a straight up trade of Lowe and Chipper to Detroit for Miguel Cabrera and Edwin Jackson? Of course, Cabrera needs to promise to attend AAA” – John Tucker
Does Miguel Cabrera have a flat tire or something?
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 7th, 2009
8:01 am
(GASP!!!)
SNOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!!
Yey! Glorious snow!
Dawg
December 7th, 2009
8:01 am
If we have to resign Soriano ($8 million), we could still sign Cameron $6 million) and Laroche $8 million. We would have to release Church, Johnson, Anderson, and we could have the $3 million that Laroche cost. That savings would equal $12 million. We have saved $3 million on Hudson compared to last years deal. We could trade Javy or Lowe and still be favorable in salary to last year.
We would have a GREAT starting pitching staff, we would have a GREAT relief staff. We would have an improved offensive team compared to last year, we would have an improved defensive team compared to last year.
We could trade Soriano during the year (save $4 million) and bring up in July Kimbrel, Hyde, Heyward and Jordan S.
That sounds like a great offseason.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
8:10 am
It snowed here overnight. Downtown is covered by what looks to be an inch or so of the stuff.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
8:14 am
Hey, Davey, if the Braves won’t pay the price to get Adrian Gonzalez, then how about a straight up trade of Lowe and Chipper to Detroit for Miguel Cabrera and Edwin Jackson? Of course, Cabrera needs to promise to attend AAA… — John Tucker
You’re going to force Cabrera to join an auto club?
No, but seriously … you think Chipper would approve a trade to Detroit, huh?
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 7th, 2009
8:14 am
2” of snow and 16F low 23F high
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 7th, 2009
8:25 am
OMG! the snow is packin’!
Can anyone say “snowball fight?”
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
8:29 am
they didn’t think there was almost any chance the intense right-hander would accept arbitration and a non-guaranteed, one-year contract that takes him off the free-agent market before that market even has time to develop.
Wouldn’t the signing of both Saito and Wagner start the development of the market for Soriano, especially when considering Wren’s comments (I think once they get a sense … the top guy doesn’t necessarily have to sign, but the top guy has to have kind of a market established, because that will obviously create some players and create some non-players [for his services])? It is rare that the Braves are the ones firing the first shots, but if we were all following some other team, I think we’d view these signings as some what of a bench mark for other relievers. We’d either be happy the bench mark is low, or we’d be cursing Wren for seemingly pricing our prize out of reach… Well, if we were following some other team than say the Dodgers, who have no money despite the size of their market. At that point you are left cursing a parking lot attendant.
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
8:34 am
No, but seriously … you think Chipper would approve a trade to Detroit, huh?
Sure. I remember all those interviews with him where he made comments along the lines of “gee I wish my team played in a colder climate, it’d be great for my toes and obliques.” and “this town is great, but what is really missing, and what I would love to have, is a giant lake, or better yet, several giant lakes within hours of here. And I mean big ass lakes. Look like oceans.”
That and his love of casinos…
fieldofdreams
December 7th, 2009
8:36 am
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul ? Matthew 16th chapter
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
8:36 am
With this talk of aiming for Marlon Byrd or Willingham, would a surprise acceptance of arbitration by Soriano really break the bank beyond a stretch? I just can’t imagine the teams high sights on sluggers of Byrd’s ilk really costing all that much.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
8:39 am
DOB, what’s the mood like in Indy this morning? When do you expect the GM’s to start making some noise?
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
8:41 am
“Sure. I remember all those interviews with him where he made comments along the lines of “gee I wish my team played in a colder climate, it’d be great for my toes and obliques.” and “this town is great, but what is really missing, and what I would love to have, is a giant lake, or better yet, several giant lakes within hours of here. And I mean big ass lakes. Look like oceans.”
That and his love of casinos…” – TennesseePaul
I don’t know if those “quotes” are 100% accurate.
Jeff R
December 7th, 2009
8:47 am
Could it be that Peter Greenberg floated the possibiity of arbitration for Soriano as a way of stoking contract bids for his client? In other words, he’s trying to gin-up the market for Soriano’s services?
Would agree with DOB. Given all the factors, just think it’s highly unlikely that Soriano goes the arbitration route. Just not in his best long-term interest.
Don
December 7th, 2009
8:54 am
Will the Braves and the Writers never learn?? They absolutely must NOT trade their pitching. First and foremost, the only slim chance they have to win is to have pitching so far far superior to the other teams that it overcomes Bobby Cox’s incompetence and makes it possible for them to win the Division over the long 162 game regular season schedule – in spite of him. (This is the way it was in their 14 Division wins under Cox.) Secondly, it is almost a sure thing that at least one of their potential starters will be injured or will prove to be ineffective.
Is it baseball season yet?
December 7th, 2009
8:55 am
DOB,
I would be interested to read your take on who you feel the Braves should sign to make them a championship caliber team in ‘10.
KJ>Prado (yes I said it)
December 7th, 2009
9:04 am
Why are alll the media outlets saying the Braves could just trade Sori if he accepts arb? Unless I’m missing something, Soriano could not be traded before June 15th.
Bravoman
December 7th, 2009
9:08 am
I hate the snow!
Ondeck1
December 7th, 2009
9:13 am
KJ>Prado I disagree whole heartedly with your name but the CBA allows for arbitration signed players to be traded before that deadline because they are not technically free agent signings.
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
9:17 am
J>Prado (yes I said it): You are missing something. Arb players are not FA. They can be traded prior to June 15th. Article XX of the CBA.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
9:19 am
KJ>Prado (yes I said it), first off, you thinking Kelly is better than Prado is asinine. Second, that has been discussed on the blog a million times. The rules have changed in the past couple of years.
KJ>Prado (yes I said it)
December 7th, 2009
9:20 am
“the CBA allows for arbitration signed players to be traded before that deadline because they are not technically free agent signings.”
That is very interesting and somewhat confusing. Does it differentiate between players who have <6 yrs service time and are arb eligible vs. arb eligible players who have filed for free agency? Sorry, that's a tough question to phrase.
Steve
December 7th, 2009
9:24 am
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/bruney_may_go_to_atlanta_BzzZrHnh3cgB8Qaz0MrKZJ
INDIANAPOLIS — According to a team that talked to the Yankees about acquiring Brian Bruney, the right-handed reliever could be headed to Atlanta.
“We asked about him but hear he is going to the Braves,” the source said.
Because the Yankees asked for prospects from the first team, they likely are looking for the same thing from Atlanta. Bruney, who made $1.25 million last year, is eligible for arbitration.
Bruney, 27, opened the season as the Yankees’ setup man for Mariano Rivera but went on the disabled list in late April with a muscle strain in the right elbow. Activated on May 19, Bruney landed back on the shelf a week later with the same problem and didn’t return until June 16.
Bravoman
December 7th, 2009
9:26 am
No more pen acquisitions please…
KJ>Prado (yes I said it)
December 7th, 2009
9:26 am
I guess a better question would be: Aren’t arbitration eligible players different from free agents who have been offered arbitration? If my theory is true I’m not sure that provision in the CBA applies.
bravehokie
December 7th, 2009
9:30 am
Every time someone thinks about trading excess starting pitching, two words should come to mind… Mike Hampton.
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
9:30 am
KJ>Prado: That provision in the CBA pertains to the rights of the former club concerning their players who file as Free Agents and are offered arbitration and accept the offer. The player is considered signed and the signing is not considered a free agent signing. FA signings cannot be traded until June 15. But, if a lawyer can describe otherwise I’d love to hear it.
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
9:32 am
No more pen acquisitions please…
Seriously. Maybe they should wait just one more day.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
9:32 am
Could it be that Peter Greenberg floated the possibiity of arbitration for Soriano as a way of stoking contract bids for his client? In other words, he’s trying to gin-up the market for Soriano’s services? — Jeff R
Thought I made it pretty clear that’s exactly what I believe to be the case. Guess I wasn’t quite clear enough, huh?
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
9:33 am
Every time someone thinks about trading excess starting pitching, two words should come to mind… Mike Hampton.
aka Large Contract… hmmmm Lowe has the largest contract of the starters…. then if any other starter gets injured the team won’t have dead weight sucking up all the financial room.
Bravoman
December 7th, 2009
9:33 am
Efrim,
Ha yea i’m not buying this rumor.
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
9:40 am
Great article Dobi One Knobi, I would love to see Nelson Cruz in the OF
I am going to New Orleans this Christmas and have booked the following restaurants
Mr B’s Bistro
Cuvee
Muriels Jackson Sq
I tried Antoines but they were incredibly rude
someone here was kind enough to email me about NOLA places, but I lost the email, any ideas of bars
and music paces we should go ?
Keeper
December 7th, 2009
9:41 am
VJ/richbrave, forget Saturday’s game, here’s our devastating loss – London’s officially gone. Not at all unexpected, but man, Rat B-stard Hoos could’ve at least waited until the corpse was cold. VJ, looks like you get to hang on to the Coach Who Cannot Be Named.
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/sports/college/college_football/article/UVAF071_20091206-223408/310032/
Oh well, at least our hoops team is good enough to quickly distract us from our pain – time to take out some frustration on VCU!!!
KJ>Prado (yes I said it)
December 7th, 2009
9:44 am
Thanks for that excellent explanation TP!
“KJ>Prado: That provision in the CBA pertains to the rights of the former club concerning their players who file as Free Agents and are offered arbitration and accept the offer. The player is considered signed and the signing is not considered a free agent signing. FA signings cannot be traded until June 15. But, if a lawyer can describe otherwise I’d love to hear it.”
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
9:47 am
Dobi – any chance we get Bruney and the Yanks get Jo Jo Reyes, I have head they are after lefties big time and are in love with Gonzo etc
Braves56
December 7th, 2009
9:48 am
The only way the Yankees/Bruney thing makes sense is if it’s a piece of a trade, possibly involving Swisher/Lowe and or others.
6-4-3
December 7th, 2009
9:48 am
Now the rumor is Brian Bruney could possibly be coming to the Braves? Are they kidding me?
We’re overstuffing on middle relievers like I overstuffed on turkey on Thanksgiving.
6-4-3
December 7th, 2009
9:48 am
Now the rumor is Brian Bruney could possibly be coming to the Braves? Are they kidding me?
We’re overstuffing on middle relievers like I overstuffed on turkey on Thanksgiving.
NCmike
December 7th, 2009
9:49 am
Keeper / Richbrave…. great game sat night!!! That was pure entertainment from start to finish. Game was played like two champions. Of course the finish was a little happier for me. NCmike (app alum)
AndyC
December 7th, 2009
9:58 am
Great write up of the Soriano situation. I can’t believe that he will accept arbitration assuming that he receives multi-year offers. Is it possible that the reliever market is going to be soft this year and Soriano is concerned that he won’t receive a multi-year deal? Wagner did set a bad precedent by accepting a lower value 1 year deal and he was supposedly the top guy in the market. If Soriano doesn’t receive a multi-year offer today or at least have a team express interest in signing him to a multi-year deal, he may panic and take Arb. Just thinking out loud. I hope he doesn’t take it.
indybravesfan
December 7th, 2009
10:01 am
DOB….Welcome to Indy! Sorry it is so cold and snowy, but hey it is December! Go check out St. Elmos (steak house) and the Slippery Noodle….great blues bar here in Indy right downtown.
What hotel are the meetings in?
Keeper
December 7th, 2009
10:02 am
NCmike, I’d concur on the game assessment, even from the losing side. My wife (also a UR alum) and I about went through the roof on that punt TD toward the end. Just left your star QB too much time, same as N. Iowa did for our star QB in last year’s semis.
I’ve got a cousin who’s attending App, so that made it slightly less painful, knowing his college experience will be a little better for it. Hope y’all win to face a CAA team in the finals. Will be real interesting if so, either against a) the only other team (Nova) to beat us this year, or b) against VJ’s Tribe and the best defensive line in FCS. Either one should be a heck of a final, as long as y’all take care of overrated Montana.
DAP
December 7th, 2009
10:02 am
dawg We have saved $3 million on Hudson compared to last years deal.
make that $6mil. huddy made $15mil last year, $9mil this year.
i think wrens strategy in signing wager and saito so early was a good one. by doing it, he made the FA pool smaller and set the market with a specific price. he figured that was one of the best ways to get the guy he wanted, and to make sure his other relievers did not accept arbitration. i think its going to work.
Wide Right
December 7th, 2009
10:04 am
I’ve read that Chone Figgins came to terms with the Mariners last week but that the M’s won’t make it official until they know Beltre wont accept arbitration. I guess Frank Wren didnt feel he could work out a pending agreement like that with Wagner and Saito.
mgar
December 7th, 2009
10:05 am
I’ve heard that Brandon Phillips needs to traded by the Reds, probably wouldn’t take much to get him, they just need to dump salary. Why not make a run at him and move Prado to first or outfield
DAP
December 7th, 2009
10:09 am
i want the reds to trade us johnny gomes.
Ritchie Patton
December 7th, 2009
10:10 am
DOB, why have you dropped your predicition for the amount Soriano could get in arb? Since the end of the season you have been predicting $8.5 mil and now you say $6.5 up to $7.5. That’s quite a drop, any particular reason?
Ritchie from Scotland
December 7th, 2009
10:10 am
that above comment is me btw, I for some reason used my full name and not my usual forum name.
CB
December 7th, 2009
10:15 am
Ritchie,could it be you read the story on MLBTR that implied DOB and Bowman were shills for the Braves? Don’t believe everything you read.
RC
December 7th, 2009
10:19 am
CB, I’m right there with you. The guy who posted the links on MLBTR makes a thinly veiled comment implying that DOB and Bowman are trying to help the Braves, while completely ignoring the fact the agent likely “leaked” what he did in order to drum up more offers. Otherwise, they’d have just accepted the stupid offer without letting everyone know they are “thinking about it”. Really poor form by Zach Links of MLBTR.
KC
December 7th, 2009
10:21 am
BTW, is this not the most disappointing holiday movie season in years?! I mean… the big highlights of the season are New Moon and an animated villainization of our military (Avatar)?? That’s the best they’ve got to offer??
Last year we got Quantum of Solace and The Wrestler. This year? Nothing but crap.
CB
December 7th, 2009
10:23 am
RC,hey we have to defend our leather jacketed friend, was a very stupid post on MLBTR.
nation
December 7th, 2009
10:25 am
DOB any traction to the NY Post’s rumor of Bruney to the braves???
RC
December 7th, 2009
10:27 am
BTW, is this not the most disappointing holiday movie season in years?! I mean… the big highlights of the season are New Moon and an animated villainization of our military (Avatar)?? That’s the best they’ve got to offer??
We still have Sherlock Holmes coming soon!
NCmike
December 7th, 2009
10:27 am
Keeper, I like our chances against Montana. I don’t think they’ve seen our level of talent since you guys whipped them last year. I’ve watched Nova a couple of times and they look tough. We’ll see…
My heart sunk after that punt TD, crazy play… How about that catch on the ground earlier in the game? Pretty much figured last team with the ball was going to win. I guess we’ll just have to continue this when we meet you guys in the playoffs again next year for Rematch 3.
Let move back up to #1
December 7th, 2009
10:28 am
So Soriano accepts arbitration. Package Soriano with Lowe and another to another team who needs a starter and closer and then we can get our big bat. I just dont see a problem here. I personally hope he accepts but I dont think he will. Closers, which is what he is right now pull more money then a middle relief pitcher. If he stays with Atlanta and accepts arbitration, he will not get a chance to close any games. He would only hurt himself.
DAP
December 7th, 2009
10:31 am
KC is this not the most disappointing holiday movie season in years?! I mean… the big highlights of the season are New Moon and an animated villainization of our military (Avatar)??
blindeside was really good. i havent seen the other two, though i was thinking about seeing avatar until your appraisal of it. im not interested in anything that degrades what soldiers do for our country.
Jeff R
December 7th, 2009
10:33 am
DOB… Hadn’t had a cup of coffee when I wrote that about Greenburg. Morning ain’t my best time of day!
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 7th, 2009
10:38 am
“he’s long gone, gone to Indiana he ain’t never comming home”
bye-bye Ralph (Soriano)
MFin04
December 7th, 2009
10:42 am
Nelson Cruz looks like a good fit. Has some speed 20sb last year and power 33hr.
Voice from the past...
December 7th, 2009
10:42 am
Don’t be surprised about the Bruney rumors. It’s not uncommon to acquire a player only to flip him as part of a subsequent trade. Could be that a team with a bat needs a major league ready reliever back in the deal…
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
10:44 am
an animated villainization of our military (Avatar)
Really? Never would have thought of it that way… but the visuals look amazing and I’ll probably see it.
6-4-3
December 7th, 2009
10:44 am
Someone posted an interesting scenario over at mlbtraderumors.com blog. It’s interesting and it sounds plausible.
The Yankees might be intersted in Soriano, but don’t want to give up their pick. So Soriano agrees to arbitration then gets traded to the Yankees for Bruney, who they might deem expendable once Soriano arrives.
Who knows?
Steve
December 7th, 2009
10:45 am
Package Soriano with Lowe and another to another team who needs a starter and closer and then we can get our big bat.
Oh yeah, teams will no-doubt be tripping over themselves for that package.
“What, not one but two overpriced players? And you say you want our cost-controlled slugging outfielder? Hot damn!”
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
10:46 am
Hey FRANK WREN:
How do you spell MFIKY? Will he or won’t he, that is the question du jour.
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
10:47 am
KC – the George Clooney movie gets good raps here in the media
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 7th, 2009
10:48 am
6-4-3
Why would the Braves trade for a mediocre relief pitcher making 1.25 mill for the potential draft picks Ralph will bring?
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
10:48 am
Hey STEVE:
Lighten up. Tis the season you know? The Christmas spirit may beat in the heart of at least one GM with an addled brain.
RC
December 7th, 2009
10:48 am
Buster Onley just posted this on Twitter – Last week, we saw quick movement in 3B market. Today, a lot of talk from agents and teams that starting pitcher market is intensifying.
Maybe we’ll start hearing some Lowe rumors?
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
10:49 am
The Yankees might be intersted in Soriano, but don’t want to give up their pick. So Soriano agrees to arbitration then gets traded to the Yankees for Bruney, who they might deem expendable once Soriano arrives.
The Yanks better be giving up more than Brian Bruney, if that’s the case.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
10:50 am
Whitey Herzog elected to Hall o’ Fame by Veterans. Comm.; Winter Meetings media shuttle delayed after drive slips, hits head. More to come.
Keeper
December 7th, 2009
10:51 am
Absolutely right on last-team-with-the-ball – if Ward had gotten it back with more than 10 seconds, he would’ve trumped Armanti’s drive.
Not sure if we’ll be back next year, losing our coach to UVA, and our QB, tailback, four our offensive line, tight end, three of our d-line, middle linebacker, both safeties, right cornerback, both kickers, both snappers, and our punt returner to graduation. (Ugh, I knew we were losing a lot, but I just looked at our depth chart to see, and it was more than I realized.) We’ve got redshirt juniors and sophomores ready to step into most of those holes, so it’s not quite as bad as it sounds, but the new QB is currently a redshirt freshman. So coach and QB will be the X-factors that determine if we’ll see a playoff rematch next year or have to defer to 2011.
Either way, I’ll be happy to not face Armanti again!
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 7th, 2009
10:51 am
Efrim-
That would make alot more sense. Say, Swisher were incuded in that deal.
bravofan
December 7th, 2009
10:51 am
Steve: I like the idea of the Soriano and Lowe package
RC
December 7th, 2009
10:52 am
“What, not one but two overpriced players? And you say you want our cost-controlled slugging outfielder? Hot damn!”
Would you really say Soriano at $6.5-$8 million is “overpriced”? If it was the plus a draft pick, maybe. But on a one year deal, that sounds about right for a team looking for bullpen help (although not for a cost controlled outfielder).
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
10:52 am
That would make alot more sense. Say, Swisher were incuded in that deal.
Or a highly regarded prospect or two.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
10:53 am
Would it really be that bad if Soriano accepts arbitration.
Like why couldn’t we move Saito if he does in fact accept. Saito is not God or anything…and please don’t give me the “Kawakami now has someone to talk to,” so they won’t move him line.
Saito is 40. And personally i think MFIKY was awesome last year, yeah he blew a couple games down the stretch. But the dude should have been on the all-star team and every closer blows games. It comes with the role.
Wagner, Soriano, Moylan, EOF, Medlan…Procter (maybe?)….I like it.
We’re definitely going to be moving a starter…So we’ll have room to get that “BIG” “BIG” “BIG” “BIG” bat.
PS
I hope we get someone who can hit some home-runs extremely soon so the “BIG” bat term can be thrown out…and for the sake of Braves fans everywhere….I know none of us are sleeping well dreaming of that “BIG” bat…waking up in cold sweats…running to the bathroom…indigestion etc
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
10:55 am
Here’s the deal with potentially trading Soriano: To do so before June 15, Braves would have to get his permission.
But you can imagine where he’d be open to such a proposal if they went to him and said, “We’ve got this deal in place if you’ll agree to be moved; oh, and you’re not going to get any save opportunities with us this season.”
If the agent is thinking something like this, it would certainly be a rather shrewd way to maximize earnings, potentially. You get the $7-8 mill arb salary from Braves, then get traded to a team that would use you as a closer, then go on market again next winter.
But if you’re Soriano, with his injury history, do you trust that all that will work out? Or, if the agent has received multi-year offers or indications of offers from teams the past couple days, do you take one of those, even if it’s “just” two years and, say, $10 mill?
Oh, what a tangled web….
RC
December 7th, 2009
10:55 am
I think Julio Franco had the biggest bat I’ve ever seen. It was something like 44 ounces I think.
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
10:57 am
Again, I am absolutely shocked that a team isn’t willing to offer a two year deal in 12-15 million dollar range to Soriano. I understand the potential loss of a draft pick. But you’re telling me that teams in the 1-15 draft pick range aren’t willing to give up a second rounder for the guy? Just bizarre.
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 7th, 2009
10:58 am
People on here are still insisting Lowe’s contract as being a huge albatross. I couldn’t disagree more and when Joel P, R Wolfe, Pedro M, B Sheets and yes J Lackey (beginning to experience arm injuries after 10,000 pitches) sign, you will all see how market reasonable Lowe’s contract actually is. I take Lowe over Burnett any day and I bet the Yankees would agree.
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
10:58 am
KEEPER, VJ:
Well, LONDON’s gone. But I didn’t see that much going on in the recruiting arena while he was here, and the defense definitely ran on empty with HUESMAN in CHATTANOOGA. By that I mean, the players more than the coaches accounted for the “d” on this year’s team, IMHO of course. Witness the last game. No, I think unless RICHMOND pulls a gold-standard as yet undiscovered head coach out of the hat, I’ve seen the best the SPIDERS have to offer in the balance of my life-time. And I wish MIKE LONDON well. It can be a pretty bumpy ride at Mr. JEFFERSON’s University.
Ritchie from Scotland
December 7th, 2009
11:02 am
Na I wasn’t thinking they were acting on behalf of the Braves. I can see what you mean about the MLBTR post though, it does in a round about way make it look like that. I was just wondering if DOB had spoken to someone in the know and they suggested Soriano’s arb offer might in fact be lower than expected?
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
11:04 am
Geesh, why sell Lowe, err LOW, as it were
He and McDowell said they have solved his mechanics etc, I think he will have a big year
plus the guy seems lucky, we hit well behind him and like gobshite behind all the other pitchers.. as stupid as that reasoning sounds, never underestimate luck
rammerjammer
December 7th, 2009
11:04 am
RC,
I remember Richie (call me “Dick”) Allen used a 44-ounce bat in the 1960s. Have not heard of a heavier one, ever.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
11:04 am
Nation: No, I haven’t heard anything of that Bruney rumor. I think you should assume that one is erroneous, and I’ll let you know if it’s otherwise.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
11:07 am
The guy who posted the links on MLBTR makes a thinly veiled comment implying that DOB and Bowman are trying to help the Braves… –RC
At this point, I really don’t know if I’ll be able to go on….
But just for the record, I think Soriano would get between $7-7.5 mill in arb, and possibly $8 mill.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
11:09 am
The Yankees might be intersted in Soriano, but don’t want to give up their pick. So Soriano agrees to arbitration then gets traded to the Yankees for Bruney, who they might deem expendable once Soriano arrives.
Yeah, but now we’re talking the kind of trust between three parties that you normally only get with one of those “trust-building” exercises at some corporate retreat, LOL.
Braves trusting Yankees, Yankees trusting Braves, and an agent trusting everybody, including an arb panel? Might be hope for World Peace, after all, it that’s the case.
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 7th, 2009
11:09 am
Come on DOB, you must persevere!
KC
December 7th, 2009
11:10 am
dogsbrekky, yeah “Up In The Air” looks like it could be pretty good. Hasn’t opened here yet, though.
DAP, in fairness, I obviously haven’t seen Avatar, since it hasn’t been released yet. But I’ve seen multiple previews, and the premise seems to be that the American military are the bad guys in the movie, trying to take the planet from the Avatars because their are precious stones there.
There is a not-so-veiled reference to Native Americans being driven off their land. But I’m bothered by the fact that American Marines seem to be the evil force in the film, from what I’ve seen in the previews. That has me not wanting to see this movie, where I otherwise almost certainly would.
Steve
December 7th, 2009
11:10 am
MLBTradeRumors:
“Joel Sherman of the New York Post notes that if he accepts arbitration, Soriano cannot be traded before June 1st without his permission.”
bravofan
December 7th, 2009
11:12 am
Steve: I like the Soriano and Lowe deal for a big bat
McFann O
December 7th, 2009
11:13 am
P. H. Wjort–
You got some GOOD games in that mix! But you left off one game, which has to be my favorite from 2009:
September 12, @ St. Louis: Tim Hudson hit his first career home run, a 2-run shot in the second to give the Braves a 3-2 lead. The Braves would later lose that lead, but down 6-5 in the top of the ninth, Brian McCann hit a bases loaded uh…double, scoring McLouth and Prado, and the Braves won 7-6.
JJ4NLCY Bob Rathburn rumor isn’t true…
‘Bout time you got back to us.
If even that! *Gives an evil glare @ McFann!*
*…Who gives an eviler one right back atcha!*
Steve
December 7th, 2009
11:17 am
I like the Soriano and Lowe deal for a big bat
Yeah, as a Braves fan. But as a rival GM?
Lowe is a pure salary dump if they trade him. Even then they’ll likely have to take a bad contract in exchange or pay a portion of his salary to get the other team to accept.
dmack2027
December 7th, 2009
11:17 am
His agent would be foolish to allow him to return to the Braves. His stock will never be higher. Even if he stays healthy, which is a big IF, he still will not be closing games.
That said, I think the Braves gambled a bit by signing Saito so early. The Wagner signing I understand, because it could be used as leverage to usher Raffy out the door. However, surely Saito would have been available at this stage, and if Raffy accepts arbitration, the Braves are not as badly in a financial crunch.
AdirondackDave
December 7th, 2009
11:20 am
Great new blog, DOB. Thanks. I’ll be glued here for the next 4 days.
bob
December 7th, 2009
11:22 am
Couldn’t stand it any longer, so had to say it: Greg Norton.
James M.
December 7th, 2009
11:24 am
Hers what I think needs to happen.
1. Trade Lowe, Medlin, Schafer, Hyde, and Freeman to the Tigers for Cabrera and maybe a mid level prospect.
2. Sign Mike Cameron.
You are all probably wondering why the tigers would accept lowe in a deal when they are trying to downsize payroll, and if you look at the salaries, they would save 7+ million each of the next 3 years then be off the hook after that. Atlanta would have Cabrera for basically 7+ mil the next 3 seasons then have to pay the full 25 mil or so the remaining 3. But honestly Cabrera is the type of hitter we need. He can play first, stick Cameron out in Right for a year then bring Heyward up midseason or whenever hes ready, and platoon him with Diaz or Cameron.
braovfan
December 7th, 2009
11:25 am
Steve:most likely if they got a big bat they would get a big contract along with him
braovfan
December 7th, 2009
11:28 am
what do you all think about the nats and smoltz having mutual interest in each other?
Bobby's Belly
December 7th, 2009
11:28 am
MLBTR’s “thinly veiled thinly veiled comment implying that DOB and Bowman are trying to help the Braves… –RC – Reality is both DOB and Bowman are acting as agents of the Braves. I don’t fault them. They have a job that relies on strong relationships w/ Braves brass. At times they will be their b*tch to better serve their readers in the future. Not a knock – reporters allow themselves to be used all the time – knowing bones will be thrown their way soon after.
braovfan
December 7th, 2009
11:29 am
James M.: are your crazy that is absurd your number 1 is RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
11:29 am
Could the Bruney rumor be a precursor to a Lowe to NY for Bruney and Swisher?
Marko
December 7th, 2009
11:29 am
I’m starting to think that the Braves should keep all the pitching and go after more. Beat teams that way…. versus sign a bat that probably won’t help all that much.
Seriously… Mark DeRosa is one of the better free agents available. To me, that is a sign that says “save the money”
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
11:30 am
Now that I think about it, I’m wondering whether Stan Kasten had possibly been visiting John Smoltz when Kasten got on our plane from Atlanta to Indy yesterday…. Didn’t think to ask Stan at the time, wasn’t thinking about the Nationals/Smoltz reportedly having “mutual interest.”
Eddie Haas
December 7th, 2009
11:30 am
DOB do you have a headache yet?
BravesfaninWis
December 7th, 2009
11:31 am
DOB,
If Soriano accepts the Braves can still go the route of releasing him in ST and only paying a percentage of his contract right? So if he accepts, I would assume that the Braves will try to trade him with his permission, or simply tell him that he will be released in ST and not make much at all.
Or the Braves (As harsh as it may be) could just sit down with him and tell him that he will never touch the ball after the 6th inning therefore he would not have any value at all for the following season when he will become a FA again.
There are several avenues to take here, and I am not worried in the least one way or the other. I am sure Frank Wren thought of every avenue before offering them arbitration and then signing Wagner and Saito. They already know exactly what they will do in the event that Soriano accepts tonight.
wjones
December 7th, 2009
11:34 am
One thing to consider, should Soriano accept arb, is that the Braves relook at their arb candidates. IIRC, the five arb candidates are Kelly Johnson, Ryan Church, Matt Diaz, Peter Moylan, and Boone Logan. For the moment, let’s pull Logan out of the mix–I can’t even believe he’s arb eligible, I’m fairly sure he’s non-tendered, and his salary shouldn’t be enough to make a dent here. Of the other four, if the Braves non-tender two or three of the remaining 4, that would pay Soriano’s salary. We’ve been discussing Johnson and Church as being expendable, and thinking the Diaz would get offered arb, but Moylan’s name hasn’t come up much. Now if Soriano accepts arb, it may very well effect Moylan’s chances of being non-tendered, both from a financial aspect as well as a position aspect. Same basic position, where if we lose the other guys we have to replace them with SOMETHING. Diaz being the major loss if you take into account just the 2009 contributions.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
11:35 am
“what do you all think about the nats and smoltz having mutual interest in each other?” – braovfan
I think Smoltz is a high risk high reward type player. The guy can still pitch… it’s just a question of if he can stay healthy. I think the Nats are a perfect fit for him. He’s not going to break the bank and if he does manage to stay healthy he’ll be worth every penny. Whether they sign him or not the Nats are still going to finish in last.
braovfan
December 7th, 2009
11:37 am
DOB:I read an article that stated that the Nats would basically use Smoltize as a mentor to Strausburg their number one pick in the draft and a mentor to their whole team which is average age is probably 22 just joking
Chris from the Rock
December 7th, 2009
11:38 am
Why would the Yankees be shopping Nick Swisher? Who would they have to play OF & DH at that point, besides Cabrera and Gardner. Last time I checked, Damon, Matsui and Nady were all free agents. Sorry, but the Yankees wouldn’t trade him until they ink Damon, and probably Matsui.
Braves 4 Life
December 7th, 2009
11:39 am
6-4-3 – Great post about the Yankees possibilities with Soriano. I am starting to like a Soriano for Swisher trade better than a sandwich pick and a possible first or second rounder if he declines arb. How crazy would it be if we could solidify our outfield without even having to trade one of our starters? Swisher is a switch hitting OF/1b making $6.75M in 2010 and $9M in 2011 which would give us great flexibility with not only Freeman but Heyward. Wren you already are the man but if you could pull this off you are in line for GM of the year.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
11:39 am
I’m starting to think that the Braves should keep all the pitching and go after more. Beat teams that way…. versus sign a bat that probably won’t help all that much.
Yeah, but exactly how many fewer runs allowed do you think that will create? I’m starting to feel redundant a little, but check their RA last year: fewest in a long time. I just don’t see how you can squeeze any more juice from that orange. Gotta have at least one bat, and preferably two, or it’s pretender-not-contender time again.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
11:40 am
Seriously, what a pain in the butt for Wren if Rafy accepts. Wren kind of looks like a moody guy, so I can’t imagine what his mood will be by tomorrow if things turn that way. LOL
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
11:41 am
Chris, they have Austin Jackson who they are really high on and could start the year on the big club, and with Cabrera or Gardner as the starting CF, that only leaves one more OF position, It is not irrational to say the Yanks could be shopping Swisher.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
11:42 am
Leave Nick Swisher where he’s at! In my opinion that guy is definitely not the answer…not even close
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
11:46 am
Nova Scotia Steve-A power hitting, switch hitting First Basement/Outfielder? That’s exactly what we need. Pair that with a Cameron or DeRosa signing and we are sitting pretty.
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
11:46 am
Hey NS STEVE:
I’m still on LEW’s bandwagon. I like the idea.
Greg in TN
December 7th, 2009
11:46 am
Morning denizens…
It’s already been a busy offseason for the inhabitants of 755 Hank Aaron Drive, and we haven’t even got the ‘ol hot stove past lukewarm on the temperature scale. The addition of Saito and Wagner certainly brings more game closing experience to the bully and allows the front office to spend the salary difference in signing Gonzo and Soriano elsewhere.
Peter Greenburg’s comments over the weekend on Soriano possibly accepting arbitration have to have raised some eyebrows within the braintrust, although it quite possibly could just be posturing in order to sweeten a free agent deal. Still, crazier things have happened to the Braves this time of year which precipitated Kevin Millwood’s move seven years ago.
Really pleased to see Whitey Herzog and Doug Harvey get their tickets punched to Cooperstown by the Veterans Committee. Herzog constructed and managed the Cardinals to three fall classics in ‘82, ‘85 and ‘87. I believe Harvey to be the best umpire in the game throughout the 70s and 80s. I know of a few arbiters in the sport today that would benefit from taking his approach. Kind of surprised Marvin Miller did not make it from the standpoint of the stature he had in the sport and with the player’s association, and would like to have seen Billy Martin and Ewing Kauffman make the hall.
Nick Swisher's Mom
December 7th, 2009
11:47 am
Anyone watch Swisher in the World Series? He’s a douche bag, let him stay a Yankee. He’s appreciated there.
DAP
December 7th, 2009
11:48 am
markoSeriously… Mark DeRosa is one of the better free agents available.
i was gonna say “seriously?” but you answered that right in your post. so ill just say…i disagree strongly that derosa is one of the better free agents out there. at least for the braves.
Steve
December 7th, 2009
11:48 am
Leave Nick Swisher where he’s at! In my opinion that guy is definitely not the answer…not even close
Yep, only put up a .249/.371/.498 like with a .869 OPS, nearly 100 walks and nearly 30 homeruns.
Should would’ve been a lot better option for 2009 than the chorus of “Francoeur will bounce back!” comments we were treated to last offseason here would have you believe. In fact, I dare say, if the Braves started 2009 with Swisher in RF instead of Francoeur; they’d have made the playoffs.
Braves 4 Life
December 7th, 2009
11:49 am
Nova Scotia Steve- “Leave Nick Swisher where he’s at! In my opinion that guy is definitely not the answer…not even close”
Come on man be open. Dude has played 150+ games the last three seasons and has hit over 22 homers in each of those three seasons. His power has improved each of the last three seasons as well with 22 homers in 07, 24 in 08, and 29 in 09. Yes I know that’s not Cabrera type numbers but he has a contract that is realistic for the Braves and the Yankees have a need for a set-up man and a possible Rivera successor.
Steve
December 7th, 2009
11:50 am
Leave Nick Swisher where he’s at! In my opinion that guy is definitely not the answer…not even close
Yep, only put up a .249/.371/.498 line with an .869 OPS, nearly 100 walks and 29 homeruns.
Sure would’ve been a lot better option for 2009 than the chorus of “Francoeur will bounce back!” comments we were treated to last offseason here would have you believe. In fact, I dare say, if the Braves started 2009 with Swisher in RF instead of Francoeur; they’d have made the playoffs.
DAP
December 7th, 2009
11:51 am
Anyone watch Swisher in the World Series?
this is an idiotic reason not to want a player. just completely stupid.
Don
December 7th, 2009
11:51 am
If the Braves trade away pitching they are trading away their only chance to be competitive, slim though it may be. If they trade pitching, they will regret it before mid season – because of an injury or one of the starters not being effective.
RSM
December 7th, 2009
11:53 am
Of all the players that I am hearing mentioned coming to the Braves, I am not hearing enough about Curtis Granderson to the Braves. I would rather have him than Cabrerra. he is a stand up guy that provides speed and power. Something that this lineup needs. Average was down last year, but he missed a portion of the year with an injury. I think that he would be a good fit for this lineup. Question is what would it take to pry him away from the Tigers eventhough he is supposedly available.
Don
December 7th, 2009
12:00 pm
The last thing the Braves need to do is to acquire a 20-30 HR hitter who does not also have a good BA and OBA. Hitters who are significantly below .300 in BA and below .350 in OBA who are acquired because they hit a few home runs are the most overated thing in baseball. A 20 HR hitter gives you a HR about every 30 times at bat or about every 7 games. Even a 30 HR guy is about every 20 times at bat or about every 5 games. Also, many of these HR from this kind of hitter come in meaningless games – games you are either winning big or losing big; and many come with no one on base. Even more significantly, most of the HR for this low BA, low OBA hitter usully automaticaly come against the weaker pitching in the league – which means their value – their being in meaninful situaitons is significantly limited. We would be much better off with a high BA, high OBA, good clutch hitter regardless of HR production.
Ray Pugh
December 7th, 2009
12:02 pm
Javier Vazquez + $$ for Adam Dunn!!! Get it done Wren!!!!!
Marko
December 7th, 2009
12:02 pm
I would rather have Frenchy or Churchy than a 35 yr Mark DeRosa. Marcus Giles can probably still outplay DeRosa. LOL.
Nick Swisher? This guy is a downgrade from Frenchy. Agree – Leave him up in NY.
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
12:02 pm
ncscoots – I agree, we can pitch ‘em to death, but last time I checked the winner of a baseball game was still the one with the highest nos of RUNS, not that with the lowest ERA, WHIP, runs givn up etc
if you lose 1-0 for 90 games you still LOSE
we need 2 bats to at least give some boost to McCann and Chipper
DAP
December 7th, 2009
12:03 pm
donThe last thing the Braves need to do is to acquire a 20-30 HR hitter who does not also have a good BA and OBA.
i dont think anybody mentioned a player like that. nick swisher was mentioned, though. dude has a very good OBP, though he does hit for a low average. OBP is way more important though.
balla1881
December 7th, 2009
12:03 pm
I wish I cared more about this Soriano drama but its really not all that important.
If he accepts, the Braves have more options.
If he declines, we’ll get draft picks…woohoo
Lets move on to something more interesting, like say offense and homeruns. This Bruney and Swisher to the Braves for Lowe rumor. Not bad, but I don’t think Swisher is the answer here in Atlanta. He’s good and a power bat but i doubt we’ll be winning any world series with him as our 4 hitter
cabravesfan
December 7th, 2009
12:03 pm
It can be a pretty bumpy ride at Mr. JEFFERSON’s University.
Richbrave-
Especially considering Virginia gets to travel out west and play at USC for our home opener next season…Welcome to big time college football Mr. London
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
12:04 pm
dogsbrekky – just saw your question about New Orleans… you should hit Pat O’Briens on Bourbon Street and Cafe Du Monde on Decatur St. (across from Jackson Square). Those are “must do” when in the Big Easy. Enjoy, though family tells me it’s pretty chilly and rainy there right now.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
12:05 pm
Wow, there are some really interesting trade proposals being posted this morning. And by interesting i mean terrible.
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
12:09 pm
All those who want Adam Dunn so bad consider this: If he was that great, then why were the Nationals still that bad. I understand his HR and walk numbers impress you all, but I would much rather get two 20-30 HR hitters added over just one Dunn. Braves should be thinking multiple players to aid the offense, not just one big splash… Course this is just my opinion.
Fischerking04
December 7th, 2009
12:09 pm
DOB- Do you see the possiblity that the Braves make any significant move while Soriano’s agent is holding the club hostage?
It doesn’t seem likely that Wren can do much of anything with his hands tied with this mess.
Scott S.
December 7th, 2009
12:10 pm
Ken Rosenthal: Braves on verge of Acquiring Adrian Gonzalez
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10474901/Sources:-Braves,-Padres-on-verge-of-Adrian-Gonzalez-trade
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
12:13 pm
DOB
I know its been said that we are interested in Willingham but that the Nats wanted a big return for him. Any ideas on what it would take to land him?
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
12:14 pm
cabravesfan:
I asked a boss at the insurance company home office where I worked as a young man why he left the agency his father had founded in a small western Virginia town. He replied, “I decided to be a little fish in a big pond rather than a big fish in a little pond.” I was always of the big fish in a little pond mentality, and left as soon as I had the opportunity to start my own business. Unfortunately I was not gifted athletically otherwise, I would have taken one of the FCS jobs and had it till I retired. But that’s just me. I never had any money anyway so $400,000 a year in hand would trump 2 million in the bush anytime as far as I’m concerned.
cabravesfan
December 7th, 2009
12:14 pm
Fischerking04-
The deadline to accept arbitration is midnight EST tonight- Soriano has to make up his mind by then so it won’t be an issue much longer (at least if he declines…)
N8
December 7th, 2009
12:14 pm
I’ve been Rick Rolled.
A-hole.
SC Ace
December 7th, 2009
12:15 pm
Well played, Scott S.
Bob Dole
December 7th, 2009
12:16 pm
LOL Scott S. you got me.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
12:16 pm
DAMN IT.
I actually believed that Gonzalez link for a second…
KC
December 7th, 2009
12:17 pm
N8, I didn’t believe it for a second, but I had to click on it anyway. Well played, Scott.
cabravesfan
December 7th, 2009
12:18 pm
richbrave-
Can’t say I disagree with you- although it is a great opportunity for London (who, in the interest of full disclosure, I know nothing about) to show what he can do- with very little pressure to “win now” (interestingly, according to what little I could find of Virginia’s 2010 schedule, they play at Richmond at some point…that should be an interesting game
Fred
December 7th, 2009
12:18 pm
DOB, About a year ago, a family friend who is also friends with the Kastens told me the Kastens kept their Atlanta home. Maybe that was why Kasten was on your flight from Atlanta.
N8
December 7th, 2009
12:18 pm
KC, I didn’t really either. But it takes to seconds to click it. I actually think the “Rick Rolled” thing is a hoot. Never gets old.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
12:19 pm
That sucks man……
TDub
December 7th, 2009
12:19 pm
Scott S – well played, sir.
SC_Bill
December 7th, 2009
12:19 pm
Scott S – Well played sir. Well played.
WK
December 7th, 2009
12:19 pm
Knowing how Bobby uses his bullpen, having Soriano return might not be such a bad idea. Bobby could spread the heavy work between four relievers instead of three and keep them all a little fresher for the stretch run. Of course, the offense might have to make do with a cheaper alternative at 1st base and LF, but pitching is still the name of the game.
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
12:19 pm
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
12:09 pm
All those who want Adam Dunn so bad consider this: If he was that great, then why were the Nationals still that bad. I understand his HR and walk numbers impress you all, but I would much rather get two 20-30 HR hitters added over just one Dunn. Braves should be thinking multiple players to aid the offense, not just one big splash… Course this is just my opinion
ANSWER:
Have you SEEN the NATIONALS regularly as those of us in the mid-ATLANTIC market are blessed to do? It’s enough to make you puke. Brings back memories of the RICHMOND BRAVES when TED TURNER first bought the organization in the mid-seventies. They stink.
NCmike
December 7th, 2009
12:20 pm
Scott:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQZG4AJ-NPA
DAP
December 7th, 2009
12:21 pm
redstickAll those who want Adam Dunn so bad consider this: If he was that great, then why were the Nationals still that bad.
um…12 great reasons…the nationals pitching staff. hey, if adrian gonzalez is any good, why are the padres so bad?
KC
December 7th, 2009
12:21 pm
I’m making no attempt to disguise this… cuz I’m too lazy. But here is my favorite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hczaiM3LH0M&feature=PlayList&p=25019D74BA7009D1&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16
P-Town Brave
December 7th, 2009
12:23 pm
Scott S.-
You sir are an A-Hole!
Never come back!
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
12:23 pm
Heard the Braves have inquired about Josh Willingham, but there doesn’t seem to be much common ground. – Bill Shanks (braves.scout.com) via twitter
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
12:24 pm
Rick Astley within an hour of waking up… I will not forget this, Scott. My day is ruined!
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
12:24 pm
Dunn won’t happen. I seriously doubt that the Nats would deal him in the division. We missed on Dunn last year when he was a free agent.
NC Braves Fan
December 7th, 2009
12:26 pm
Scott S: there is a tiny corner of hell that is being specially heated for you, sir.
Calvin
December 7th, 2009
12:27 pm
Yawn at this internet “rick rolling” bs. Can’t get anymore lamer than that. Oh wait…it’s supposed to be funny. Little kids these days.
Matt
December 7th, 2009
12:32 pm
David, do you have a Twitter account?
Billy Walsh
December 7th, 2009
12:32 pm
Why were the Nationals bad? Did you watch any of their games last year? It wasnt because of Dunn. Maybe it had to do with something their team era being above 5 and their bullpen being one of the worst in baseball.
P-Town Brave
December 7th, 2009
12:34 pm
Calvin-
The only funny thing about a rick roll is the clip from Family Guy.
GboroBravo
December 7th, 2009
12:37 pm
11:29am: Heyman notes that Soriano has attracted interest from the Yankees, Orioles, and Astros. The Yankees would give up their #32 pick, the Orioles #37, or the Astros #43.
Bob
December 7th, 2009
12:38 pm
DOB I thought the Falcons have had back to back winning seasons, its the playoffs they’ve never reached 2 years in a row is it not?
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
12:40 pm
I thought that the lower you were in the standings, the higher your draft pick was the next year. I dont get how if Soriano signed with the Orioles we would only get their #37 pick, or with the Astros, their #43
Random
December 7th, 2009
12:41 pm
Jair Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez, straight up.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
12:42 pm
OJ if you are one of the bottom 15 your first round is protected.
brian
December 7th, 2009
12:42 pm
as draft picks seem to become more valuable I wonder if we will see more of a player accepting arbitration and then being traded for something less than a first round draft pick
It would not surprise me if teams told Soriano and his agent that his value is less since they would have to also give up a 1st round pick. They could even potentially work out a 2-3 year deal or agree to accept the arbitration number if Soriano agrees to arbitration with the Braves and then the Braves trade Soriano.
It would not surprise me at all if the Yankees told Soriano to do this very thing. They could go to the Braves and say we will trade you Bruney or you can be on the hook for an $8 million/year 6-7th inning middle reliever.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
12:42 pm
I believe we would get the Astros or Orioles second rounder plus an extra compensation pick
Calvin
December 7th, 2009
12:43 pm
OJ
Because their top 15 pick is protected. You can’t get a draft pick if it is in the top 15 of the draft. If that is the case, you get the sandwich pick and the signing team’s 2nd round draft pick.
brian
December 7th, 2009
12:44 pm
any chance the Braves trade Vazquez for a bat then also trade Derek Lowe and his salary? I guess that would put Medlen as the 5th starter which would significantly weaken our starting rotation.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
12:48 pm
Brian – “any chance the Braves trade Vazquez for a bat then also trade Derek Lowe and his salary? I guess that would put Medlen as the 5th starter which would significantly weaken our starting rotation.”
A rotation of Jurrjens, Husdon, Hanson, Kawakami and Medlen is definitely not as strong as one with EITHER Lowe/Vasquez.
Just my opinion…its still exremetly good. Just not a strong I don’t believe.
jed
December 7th, 2009
12:48 pm
wouldnt be surprised to see soriano accept arb, then have his agent tell wren he’d accept a trade. hey…that could work out in our favor, actually.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
12:49 pm
So yeah I agree with you Brian…definitely not as strong.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
12:49 pm
Ohhhh, thats right. Thanks guys for the info.
McFanny
December 7th, 2009
12:49 pm
DOB’S twitter acct. @ajcbraves
Bob
December 7th, 2009
12:54 pm
“I thought that the lower you were in the standings, the higher your draft pick was the next year. I dont get how if Soriano signed with the Orioles we would only get their #37 pick, or with the Astros, their #43″
If a team has a top 15 pick you do not get their first round pick
balla1881
December 7th, 2009
12:54 pm
Random thats a joke…. right?
Pete
December 7th, 2009
12:54 pm
I think Braves should trade Vazqeus to Cubs for Milton Bradley. He is a switch hitter and would do well under Cox. Another option would be Vazqeus or Lowe for Vernon Wells. Who’s on board with me?
Rob - in pain (from SC)
December 7th, 2009
12:55 pm
Can we all act like grownups today and only post legit rumors/signings/trades.
Rob - in pain (from SC)
December 7th, 2009
12:55 pm
Pete
Vazquez for Vernon Wells
You should be banned for that comment
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
12:55 pm
Not that I really want either one but Wells is much better than Bradley. Bradley to me doesn’t mesh well with the Braves.
Fleming
December 7th, 2009
12:56 pm
Maybe we an trade our entire starting staff for bats and middle relievers and pay games one inning at a time.
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
12:56 pm
I think Braves should trade Vazqeus to Cubs for Milton Bradley. He is a switch hitter and would do well under Cox. Another option would be Vazqeus or Lowe for Vernon Wells. Who’s on board with me?
You’re just doing this to aggravate people. There is no way you could really want the Braves to do something like that.
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
12:57 pm
any team that might want lowe would want joe blanton now instead because hes making 10mill less
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
12:57 pm
Pete,
If the Blue Jays could get ANYONE to take on Wells and his heavily back end loaded contract…they would not do it in exchange for another large contract such as Lowe’s.
Although to VW’s credit he played the entire year with a injured wrist…(he hurt in Spring Training) and played through it. So he had offseason surgury…we’ll see if he has a bounce back year..but the guy simply can’t stay healthy. Looking back to the last 3 years since he signed that massive contract.
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
12:58 pm
nats get brian bruney
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
12:58 pm
…And I completely ignored the Milton Bradley comment
ryan c
December 7th, 2009
1:01 pm
@12:58 nova scotia steve
obviously not.
Billy Walsh
December 7th, 2009
1:03 pm
You dont trade Vazquez for potential. You trade him for a guy that is going to hit 30 homers and drive in over 100. No way do the braves even consider trading for Bradley. I would trade for Pat Burrell before Bradley.
Bob
December 7th, 2009
1:04 pm
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelsherman/status/6437154846
Yankees/Nats trade, no details other than Bruney to the Nats though
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:05 pm
I seriously doubt that Vazquez or Lowe will net a 30+ HR and 100 RBI guy. Better hope we can at least get a 25 HR guy.
N8
December 7th, 2009
1:06 pm
“A rotation of Jurrjens, Husdon, Hanson, Kawakami and Medlen is definitely not as strong as one with EITHER Lowe/Vasquez….Just my opinion…its still exremetly good. Just not a strong I don’t believe.” NSC
No doubt about it. But the question is, is an extremely good rotation with a greatly improved lineup (assuming lineup could be improved by moving both Lowe and Vazquez), better than a stronger than extremely good rotation, with the same week lineup from early last year?
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
1:09 pm
Redstick – re NOLA – thanks, I had Cafe du Monde on a short list and a place called GW Fins and ACME Oyster
will try Pat OBriens – brilliant
abwright
December 7th, 2009
1:10 pm
My 2 cents on the Soriano arbitration thing…
Who knows what could happen, but … why would you drag out accepting arbitration until right up to the deadline unless you were hoping for a better offer? If he really is ready to accept arbitration, then accept it already!
Once the deadline passes, Soriano and his agent lose a little bit of leverage: that putative $8.5M salary that they might get in arbitration.
If Soriano can get his deal before the arb deadline, he probably gets a little sweeter deal than if he waits until after the deadline.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:11 pm
Vazquez for Ty Wiggington, Luke Scott
NC Braves Fan
December 7th, 2009
1:12 pm
No way the Braves trade both Lowe & Vazquez. They don’t need to for one, and two it would weaken the starting staff. The Braves’ moves this offseason will most likely follow the “master plan” they’ve been hinting at for a while —
Heyward, Freeman and (possibly) Schafer to the big club in 2010 and 2011. Those are your long term “big bats.” So the offensive help they get for 2010 is most likely to be modest FA or trade acquisitions.
Going the youth route allows the Braves to do the following:
1 – Keep either Lowe or preferably Vazquez (you could extend JV if you keep him).
2 – Lock up Jurrjens for a few years. His arb years are dead ahead.
3 – Have enough payroll flexibility to handle bullpen and other issues as they arise.
They’ve already got Huddy signed for three more years. So the SP would be solid for years to come.
It’s not as exciting as getting a Gonzalez from SD or someone like that this year, but for a mid-market team the above blueprint gives the Braves the best chance to solidly compete for the next five or more years.
Ray Pugh
December 7th, 2009
1:12 pm
Redstick,
The Nats had a respectable offense–they sucked b/c their pitching was abyssmal. As for 1 Dunn vs. 2 good hitters, we could still afford to add another decent hitter after a trade for Dunn (if Soriano declines, which I’m 99% sure he will)…
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
1:13 pm
P’cola i’d rather have dye then wiggington
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:14 pm
Wigginton and Scott could fill two of our three voids. OF and Corner IF for the bench, plus Wigginton can PH.
Hillbilly
December 7th, 2009
1:14 pm
DOB,
It’s nowhere near Indianapolis, but how about Indianola by Charlie Robison?
http://www.last.fm/music/Charlie+Robison/_/Indianola?autostart
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
1:17 pm
RE: N8
I know you are well aware of this….but on the offense/starting rotation subject.
I like the really strong rotation approach.
I think we have to look at having Prado and McLouth in our line-ups to begin the season…and how that will benefit us.
I think that’s going to make a significant difference in how our offense is made up…plus if we can add a say Mike Cameron or Josh Willingham in the outfield and a Conor Jackson, Lyle Overbay, Adam LaRoche type guy at 1b.
I think we are en extremely dangerous ballclub.
Extremely dangerous
ryan c
December 7th, 2009
1:17 pm
dogsbrekky,
just moved from new orleans after 8 years of living in the city.
my suggestion: take a night and go uptown to jacque imos and the maple leaf bar.
jacque imo’s: one of the best authentic new orleans cuisine out there with a relaxed atmosphere.
maple leaf bar: best music bar in new orleans and its right next door to jacque imos. call beforehand to make sure music is playing that night.
acme: yes
gw fins: yes
pat o’s: piano bar…yes
cafe du monde: overrated, but yes
depending on your age, i would suggest to go the the “gold mine” late at night, if you’re there on a weekend. order a flaming dr. pepper, play some vintage video games, and dance your ass off.
Bob
December 7th, 2009
1:18 pm
“P’cola i’d rather have dye then wiggington”
I’d rather have diarrhea than either. Dye is gonna cost the Braves severely as Garrett Anderson’s fielding did last year. I can count at least 3 games I watched where Garrett’s lack luster fielding allowed more runs to score than what should have, and the Braves lose a close game after a solid pitching effort by their starters.
I vote if we sign Dye and he doesn’t play 1b, we put McLouth in Left Center, Heyward/Diaz in Right center and get a lawn chair in foul territory in left field so Dye can continue to rest but still be on the field with his team…save a lot of runs that way
VaBravesfan
December 7th, 2009
1:18 pm
Less pictures of Mr. Maddux and more of Miss Cruz.
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
1:18 pm
dogsbrekky
You really have to go here: http://www.tipitinas.com/
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:19 pm
I threw Scott out as a LF and Wigginton as a Bench/Role player. He can play both 3rd and 1st so that would work nicely. Both would cost about 7-8 mil in total.
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
1:21 pm
ryan c – thanks I am 44, the missus is 49,we like to dance and EAT so will check out those spots as well
I will put on 15 lbs in 6 days I suspect
abwright
December 7th, 2009
1:22 pm
I wonder if the Braves might trade Lowe/Vazquez for prospects and salary relief. Then, using those prospects, go after a power-hitting first baseman.
Right now, Braves’s biggest need is 1st base. If they had to, they could field a major league ready out-field. They’ve got nothing at first.
abwright
December 7th, 2009
1:24 pm
I’m also wondering, based on BC’s comments, if the Braves aren’t waiting to hear about arbitration guys to make their next move.
In other words, the next move is ready. But, if S or G accept arbitration, they may not have the salary flexibility to make it.
GboroBravo
December 7th, 2009
1:25 pm
Yahoo’s Steve Henson says the Braves want to move Derek Lowe or Javier Vazquez, but not Kenshin Kawakami.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:25 pm
The problem is they don’t want to block first because they believe Freeman will develop into the power hitting first baseman we need.
Fischerking04
December 7th, 2009
1:26 pm
A message to some: I see a lot of posts pertaining to this guy or that that mention that they are “not the answer”. Keep in mind that the Braves aren’t looking for just one guy to come in and be the savior of our team. They are looking at multiple people for multiple positions. And they aren’t looking with the expectation that who they get will carry our team to the World Series. They will sign guys that are able to help the team. It’s as simple as that. If we upgrade our offense and hopefully defense overall then I like where the team is headed.
Pete
December 7th, 2009
1:26 pm
Efrim: Ok, how about this…. if the Angels want Lowe than I would trade him and maybe a another decent player for Juan Rivera. Sign Laroche because of his good glove and his power. I don’t much care for Mike Cameron because of his strikeouts. Boy, does he do that a lot. Some of you say, “well, he plays good CF and has a little power, so who cares about strikeouts?” Hey, you will when he’s up at the plate in crucial parts of the game and he whiffs over and over. I’ve watched this dude can choke with the best of them.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
1:27 pm
I’m refreshing like a madman…and there’s not even any real Braves rumors swirling. And they probably won’t be until “Sorianogate”
abwright
December 7th, 2009
1:28 pm
Why hasn’t Gonzo declined arbitration? I know that he can wait til the deadline, but, what’s the point?
The thing is, I was listening to XM radio, and the guys there said they thought Gonzo might accept the Braves’s arbitration offer.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
1:29 pm
“And there will probably won’t be until Sorianogate is over” is what I meant to say…
Daniel
December 7th, 2009
1:29 pm
DOB- Thanks for the great blog. As a Braves and Hawks fan, it is so refreshing to have an AJC beat writer who knows his stuff and is a great writer. No disrespect to Ken, but the bosses need to get something done.
On another note. You really should check out the music from a band called Real Estate, they sound like early Yo La Tengo. Excellent album.
What are people feeling about Nady?
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:30 pm
I would imagine with the Angels missing out on Figgins they will resign Lackey taking them out of the running for Lowe.
Daniel
December 7th, 2009
1:31 pm
Freeman is more of a gap power guy than a Home Run power guy.
Piedmont Blues
December 7th, 2009
1:31 pm
Pete,
In a lot of cases, a strikeout is the least bad out you can make. It’s not as bad as hitting into a double play, for instance.
You’d prefer players to *never* make outs, but that’s not an option. So if Cameron’s OBP is acceptable otherwise, and he can help your club with power and defense, who cares if the outs he makes are via the whiff?
Bravoman
December 7th, 2009
1:32 pm
Angels pursuing Bay. Could Juan Rivera be dealt for Lowe?
Prime Time
December 7th, 2009
1:32 pm
Lowe trade rumor, though it may just be someone’s idea of a good trade. It is through fox sports.
http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
1:33 pm
Now I like those ideas although I’ll have to disagree with you on Cameron. He does play very good defense and it’s not like the Braves have a team full of K machines. Cameron would be a very nice fit for a good price. But, if they can not only trade Lowe but for a guy like RIvera than I can’t imagine Wren passing on that.
GboroBravo
December 7th, 2009
1:33 pm
From ESPN CHAT on Winter Meetings:
jcrasnick: Rafael Soriano’s agents just got into Indy. They’re planning to meet with clubs all day before Soriano makes his arbitration decision.
abwright
December 7th, 2009
1:34 pm
There are “productive outs” where you move a runner over to second/third or score a run from third with fewer than two outs.
Random
December 7th, 2009
1:35 pm
balla1881 — Nope — no joke.
Jair Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez, straight up.
Keep Lowe, extend Vazquez.
Piedmont Blues
December 7th, 2009
1:35 pm
Should have checked the previous page before replying to Pete. He’s interested in Vernon Wells but thinks Cameron’s a choker? Yup, guy should be banned.
Prime Time
December 7th, 2009
1:35 pm
Possible Lowe trade
http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
1:39 pm
Random
I’m actually not totally opposed to that idea…I’ve been thinking about it since you posted about an hour ago.
It all really depends…with Jurrjens being a Boras client will we ever be able to re-sign the guy when his contract is up.
Cause as sure as s*it…Adrian Gonzalez will be leaving via free agency in two seasons…if that deal was made…but i’m not totally opposed.
CB
December 7th, 2009
1:40 pm
Random with a trade proposal, I love it. Don’t think SD would do it,buddy.
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
1:41 pm
I like Cameron, outright gamer that guy, seems like a nice bloke too
JJ for Braun but nothing less
P-Town Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:42 pm
So, what are the thoughts on Juan Rivera around here?
I know he’s an oger in the field, but could the Braves possibly be thinking about him at 1b?
stamper
December 7th, 2009
1:42 pm
will the people who keep talking about Adrian, Bay and Holliday please just shut up?!?!?!?!
it’s NOT going to happen. Let it go. Just let it go.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
1:43 pm
Stupid Soriano, now the waiting game will likely continue because MFIKY can’t come up with a decision. Not entirely he or his agents fault, that’s just part of the business, but it is a headache. I still love DOB’s comment under Rafy’s photo at the top of the page. That pretty much sums it all up.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:44 pm
If Rivera is acquired than he will be a LF. Decent hitter though. Could do well for us.
Thundersticks
December 7th, 2009
1:44 pm
“Jair Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez, straight up.
Keep Lowe, extend Vazquez.” -Random
Couldn’t agree more. Don’t get me wrong, I love JJ. But we have a window to win right now and need to take advantage of it.
JJ
December 7th, 2009
1:46 pm
Yo Redstick-
I’m from Lafayette, and most of my family still lives down there. I miss South Louisiana as much as anything.
RR
December 7th, 2009
1:47 pm
jcrasnick: Rafael Soriano’s agents just got into Indy. They’re planning to meet with clubs all day before Soriano makes his arbitration decision.
jcrasnick: If Soriano thinks he can do better than 1-year and $7-8 mill on open market, he’ll go out. If not, Atlanta is a nice fallback for him.
Latest from ESPN
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:48 pm
The braves can be competitive by signing two 20-25 HR guys. We don’t need to empty the farm for a rental. NO way we would be able to resign him. If we do it, then in two years everyone will be complaining how it was a bad trade and shouldn’t of given up so much for him.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:51 pm
Vazquez or Lowe and a low rated reliever for Wigginton and Scott. Then sign a RH first baseman and we are set.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
1:52 pm
I would prefer a two year conract to Adam LaRoche over unloading a boat load of prospects or Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez. We don’t need any more rental players, unless they are lower cost ones.
P-Town Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:54 pm
Strangely enough, Rivera has been ~ +2 rpg in LF the last 3 years for the Angels, AND he in fact does have experience at 1b…2 innings worth lol.
I think if the Braves ran into the situation where they could sign a Cameron and trade for a Rivera they wouldn’t have much of a problem in putting Juan at 1b…just my 2 cents.
Would anyone think getting Rivera for Lowe would be some sort of a steal or not?
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
1:56 pm
P-Town Brave
I think Rivera being unloaded depends on if they have a shot at Bay. If they sign him they wouldn’t have enough for Lackey making Lowe a very good option.
Bravoman
December 7th, 2009
1:56 pm
The more and more I think about the Soriano situation the more I agree with DOB’s proposal that it’s an agent tactic. I’ll be so glad if that’s the case. This team needs an offensive upgrade next year and this situation can have quite the negative impact on that…
C's
December 7th, 2009
1:56 pm
P’cola Brave: The braves can be competitive by signing two 20-25 HR guys.
—————————-
I completely agree. Cameron and LaRoche fit that bill perfectly. Meanwhile we have an outstanding defense to back up our stellar pitching staff, we give up no top prospects and we commit very little in terms of money and years.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
1:58 pm
Heyward, Freeman and (possibly) Schafer to the big club in 2010 and 2011. Those are your long term “big bats.”…for a mid-market team the above blueprint gives the Braves the best chance to solidly compete for the next five or more years.
Mayb in five years, LOL. I think all three of those players will be good-to-great, but they are also going to be young, young, young for the five years of your time-frame. You cannot overestimate the importance of a solid, veteran, big-time slugger to a team built around young up-and-coming players. Not only as a steadying influence to the kids, but also as a guy who can produce enough offensively to offset the inevitable growing pains those kids will face.
So, I would say that a future that includes Heyward, Schafer, and Freeman as core players increases, not lessens, the need for a big-time bat in the middle of the order. For a couple-three years, at least.
Bravoman
December 7th, 2009
1:58 pm
P-Town Brave,
That all depends on how much of Lowe’s contract will be paid by Atlanta in the deal, but if that deal can be made and Cameron can be acquired that’d be quite the offensive upgrade.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
1:58 pm
Why the hell is Soriano’s agents just now getting to the winter meetings. If I was Soriano, I would fire my agents for not being on top of their game.
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
1:59 pm
JJ- yeah, I didn’t know it before last night… but now I’m definitely sensing that there is a strong South Louisiana presence here on MIB/Braves blog. That’s cool. Oh, and I miss that Louisiana culture something awful too. But things ain’t all that bad when you can look out your balcony window and enjoy the Gulf of Mexico and the beach.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
2:00 pm
I bet we dont hear anything about the Braves doing anything today until after we find out if Soriano is going to decline or not. Thanks Soriano.
macdwolfpack
December 7th, 2009
2:00 pm
Twitter experts help! I have logged into Twitter for twitter@ajc.braves and it gives me a bunch of Braves listings but none appear to be DOB. How do I get there?
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
2:01 pm
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
1:58 pm
Why the hell is Soriano’s agents just now getting to the winter meetings
Not to worry. They’ve got ’till midnight to have the BRAVES and their faithful dangle.
Space Monkey
December 7th, 2009
2:02 pm
Why on Earth would Smoltz want to pitch for the Nats? Isn’t the only reason he’s hanging around is to try and get another ring? That ain’t gonna happen in Washington.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
2:02 pm
Sorianogate
AndyC
December 7th, 2009
2:03 pm
I don’t think I would trade JJ for anyone at this point, not even Braun. Even though he has Boras for an agent, he will be under team control for several more years even if he doesn’t sign an extention. He’s too good to unload now…maybe in another 2-3 years when he gets expensive in arbitration but not now.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
2:04 pm
Mac, just do a search for David O’Brien, he is the 2nd one down on the list with the Hank Aaron picture.
chris
December 7th, 2009
2:04 pm
O.J.- i think the braves would like to move lowe or vazquez this week if they can. or atleast find some suitors. shouldnt affect them much on finding a bat, if they dump lowe’s or vazquez salary. but it will affect how much they can upgrade the offense after the lowe or vazquez trade or the bench needs, etc. but the first day of the meetings is alot of rumors, while tuesday and wedensday should be alot more action
AndyC
December 7th, 2009
2:04 pm
Space Monkey
You read my mind about Smoltz. Doesn’t make any sense.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
2:05 pm
Peter “Deep Throat” Greenberg
Random
December 7th, 2009
2:05 pm
CB (December 7th, 2009 1:40 pm): “a trade proposal, I love it. Don’t think SD would do it,buddy.”
Why not? Four years of Jurrjens (a solid #2 (at least) SP, at $~0.5M in ‘10, and 3 years arb-eligible) for two years of AGon?
They might do that. They oughta.
N8
December 7th, 2009
2:05 pm
Thundersticks and Random, while I was one of the first to suggest during the season that JJJ might net us the biggest prize of all of our pitchers, should Wren decide to trade one (this was before Hudson came back), that has now changed with Hudson being extened.
While in a perfect world, it might be the way to go.
But what part of salary restraints for Wren don’t you guys understand? Not only does Gonzalez make more than JJJ makes (which means trading one for the other ADDS salary to our payroll), but keeping Lowe and Vazquez is not an option.
Lowe, Vazquez, Hudson, Chipper, McCann, Saito and Wagner will combine to make 65 million dollars. Leaving about 27 million dollars to fill the rest of the 25 man roster (18 other players). One of whom is Adrian Gonzalez (4.5 million), thus leaving 22.5 million for 17 other players.
Sorry guys. Not going to happen. No matter how right you are about the window to win now, and how adding Gonzalez while keeping Vazquez and Lowe, might make us a better team for 2010 by keeping JJJ and trading Vazquez or Lowe for a lesser 1B.
Long-term, this is also a no-brainer to dump one of the older pitchers and retain JJJ. But I realize you guys are suggesting to “go for it” now.
But again. With Ted Turner, Arthur Blank or Mark Cuban running the Braves? Sure. But with Liberty Media and the payroll capped at around 92 million? NEVER going to happen. NEVER.
Besides. If you think the Padres are giving up Gonzalez even up for JJJ, you’re nutz. They will over-value him just like Towers did Peavy and go for a package of multiple prospects. Maybe none as good as JJJ is now, but they are not doing a one-for-one trade of Adrian Gonzalez.
itcouldbeworse
December 7th, 2009
2:05 pm
Am I the only one who thinks shorting the game to 6 innings by having soriano in the 7th can be a good thing.
CB
December 7th, 2009
2:06 pm
I hope the Braves will at least kick the tires on a trade for Granderson,worth at least a try with an affordable contract.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
2:06 pm
I would love to see Soriano back with the Braves…and I hope it happens…
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
2:06 pm
I think Lackey has a lot more to do with Lowe than Vazquez. We could deal Vazquez at any point but Lowe more than likely could go to a West team or Baltimore who misses out on Lackey.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
2:07 pm
itcouldbeworse, no, it would be awesome to have a set up guy like that, but not at the price tag he will have. Bullpen guys that make that much money are usually closers.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
2:08 pm
CB, Granderson sucks against lefties, and I am not sure if you know this or not, but a lot of the pitchers within our division are lefties. No, we need a right handed bat for sure.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
2:09 pm
Nova, if it does happen, it wont be for long. That is just too much money to spend on the bullpen.
macdwolfpack
December 7th, 2009
2:09 pm
OJ, thanks
Bravoman
December 7th, 2009
2:10 pm
“Am I the only one who thinks shorting the game to 6 innings by having soriano in the 7th can be a good thing.”
Having almost 20 mil invested in 3 guys in the bullpen is not worth it. Soriano’s contract needs to be spent on offense!
Jim
December 7th, 2009
2:10 pm
I just don’t see any way that Soriano accepts arbitration. But if he does, can you imagine the quality of the bullpen if everyone stays healthy: Wagner, Saito, Soriano, Moylan, Medlen. Between that and the starting staff 1 or 2 runs a game from the offensive might be enough.
http://www.fanhuddle.com/atlantabraves <— More commentary than you can shake a tomahawk at.
shmoe
December 7th, 2009
2:10 pm
I long for the 2003 Juiced Braves lineup, lol
DAP
December 7th, 2009
2:11 pm
OJ, No, we need a right handed bat for sure.
no, we just need a good hitter. braves hit lefties just fine in 2009. better than they hit righties, in fact. there is no reason to pursue a player based on what they do against lefties.
toga party
December 7th, 2009
2:12 pm
macdwolfpack,
For twitter, It’s ajcbraves (without the “.”), not ajc.braves. I think it’s just a typo in the blog.
CB
December 7th, 2009
2:12 pm
Random, I think it is not a bad trade proposal and I would do it to get that type of power hitter. I just think SD might think they could get more,if they would do it I would still trade Lowe and get his salary off the payroll. I think then you could extend Vazquez and have $ to spare for other things.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
2:13 pm
Jeez, how long does a guy have to be in the uni to not be classified a “rental”, LOL? Can you guys count high enough to figure the number of two-year contracts the Braves have signed in the last decade of so? No one called THOSE guys “rentals”. What, Gonzalez has to promise to sign a lifetime contract to not be a carpetbagger?
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
2:14 pm
I think of the two positions that need to be filled, I think one lefty and one righty should be sufficient but I think at least 1 righty is a definite.
McFann O
December 7th, 2009
2:14 pm
DAP braves hit lefties just fine in 2009. better than they hit righties, in fact.
Though not all individual players had that same result…
N8
December 7th, 2009
2:14 pm
“Am I the only one who thinks shorting the game to 6 innings by having soriano in the 7th can be a good thing.”
No, you are not. But what makes you think the Braves can score enough runs for it to matter how “short” the game is?
Our starting pitching is good enough to already make most games a 6 inning game. We just need to score enough runs for them to get us there.
Our starters were taking out in the 6th and 7th innings last year more often than they should have been in order to try and score more runs by PH for them when trailing in the middle innings.
If our offense does it’s job, the current cast of starters will more often than not take us to the 7th inning, leaving Wagner, Saito, Moylan, O’Flare and Medlen to take care of the rest.
IMO, barring injury, no matter what the cost is financially, having Wagner, Saito and Soriano is just overkill. If we had financial flexibility, it would be great to go into the season with that depth and trade for another need from our strength down the road. But we can’t afford to do that.
Stat Man
December 7th, 2009
2:15 pm
I just have a hard time figuring a team that is laying off employees (Braves), in a sport whose attendance is down across the board (MLB), in an economy that is still in the toilet (and depending on Obama to reverse it) will be doing anything to really help themselves hitting when they have no money to do so. Last year was similar and the only thing they could do was get Garrett Anderson??
Barring trading Lowe to someone for a bag of balls if they don’t have to eat any of his salary – I find it hard to get excited about having a stud bullpen cause entering the 8th inning with only 2-3 runs on the board won’t usually find you in a position to close anything out.
Random
December 7th, 2009
2:16 pm
N8 (December 7th, 2009 2:05 pm): “But what part of salary restraints for Wren don’t you guys understand?”
Just the first part and the last part.
(I’m also kinda fuzzy about the middle part, too.)
AndyC
December 7th, 2009
2:17 pm
Am I the only one who thinks shorting the game to 6 innings by having soriano in the 7th can be a good thing. – itcouldbeworse
If this were the Yankees and their unlimited budget then I would agree with you. If the Braves keep Soriano then that would probably mean no trade for a power hitting outfielder or a below average player playing 1st. No thanks.
chris
December 7th, 2009
2:18 pm
Stat man, i dont think the braves will head into opening day without acquiring a bat or two, just not going to happen. they could make a bad trade or signing for a bat, but any front office can get SOMETHING during the offseason.
macdwolfpack
December 7th, 2009
2:20 pm
OJ, one more Tweet question and then won’t bother you, how do you delete tweet messages?
Brian McCann
December 7th, 2009
2:20 pm
McFann– That last comment wouldn’t have been a reference to me, would it? Hey, I’m working on my approach against lefties, just need to lay of the Big Mac’s to get more flexible to turn on those inside pitches. Still trying to work off that Thankgiving dinner right now.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
2:21 pm
Which ones?
The ones in your timeline or directly sent to you
Jimmy Joe
December 7th, 2009
2:21 pm
If Soriano’s agents haven’t found a team willing to give him better than our arbitration offer, then why should we think he will find that between now and midnight? He is going to accept. No reason to think otherwise.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
2:24 pm
The arbitration offer is for more money than he would get from an other team. But why take a one year offer with a team that you wont close for after having the best year of your career
Makes no sense for him to accept unless their is no interest in him and he’s money hungry.
Rock On......
December 7th, 2009
2:24 pm
Everyone is giving their ideas of how all this Hot Stove stuff is all going to go down. What is mine? Glad you asked:
1. Braves will trade multiple prospects to acquire Adian Gonzalez for two years. He is cheap and is great insurance if Freeman’s assention to 1st doesn’t pan out as planned for whatever reason. I know he will be hard to sign after 2011. Worry about that then. Right now I am trying to win the World Series in 2010.
2. If #1 doesn’t work out they will sign LaRoche. These are the two best 1st base options that strengthen or keeps the club strong. Can’t see the Braves not doing one or the other.
3. Lowe will be dealt with the Braves eating 5-6 million of his contract if need be for a prospect or two. Reason, the Braves aren’t going to gamble on Hudson and trade their top-veteran-innings-eating strike-out pitcher. Hudson and Lowe are similar style pitchers. Wren will find a way to get rid of Lowe and acquire some prospects in return thus minimizing the prospects lost to acquire Gonzalez.
4. If Soriano accepts arb he should be told he is too stupid to pitch. That or he should fire his agent.
5. They will extend Vazquez through 2012.
Let’s see what happens. Will I bat 1.000 or will I strike out. Remember Wren listens to me.
Rock On......
December 7th, 2009
2:27 pm
P’Cola Brave….Atlanta will make it very difficult for him to be happy should he accept arb. He will make more away from Atlanta on a multi-year deal.
Random
December 7th, 2009
2:27 pm
N8 (December 7th, 2009 2:05 pm): “Besides. If you think the Padres are giving up Gonzalez even up for JJJ, you’re nutz. They will over-value him just like Towers did Peavy and go for a package of multiple prospects. Maybe none as good as JJJ is now, but they are not doing a one-for-one trade of Adrian Gonzalez.”
Towers who? He gone.
And it wouldn’t be “a one-for-one trade” — it’d be two-for-one.
Four years of Jurrjens for two years of AGonz = 2 fer 1.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
2:28 pm
braves hit lefties just fine in 2009. better than they hit righties, in fact.
Braves LH hitters vs LHP: .251/.317/.381
You can’t get that kind of stink off without a little extra soap, LOL. So, yes, I think handedness might be a consideration for an offseason offensive acquisition.
Raider Fan
December 7th, 2009
2:30 pm
Bobby Cox just said “we have six excellent starting pitchers and to get a hitter we NEED to move one of them.”
Bobby Cox also said “we don’t have a 1B,” adding that Freddie Freeman could play there “if push came to shove” but he’s only 20.
Bobby Cox said “teams are knocking on the door” to trade for second baseman Kelly Johnson, who all but lost his job to Martin Prado.
That’s from Steve Henson on Twitter.
http://twitter.com/stevehenson333
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
2:31 pm
am watching the Cubs – Cards ame on mlb network where Ryne Sandyboy smacks 2 hr off Suter
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
2:31 pm
Rock On..
I meant in terms of annual paycheck. He will make close to 8 with Atlanta. He will probably make 6 a year in a multi year deal
Stat Man
December 7th, 2009
2:32 pm
Chris,
I totally agree with you that any front office can do SOMETHING – but what if we have a 2nd straight year of the biggest addition being a Garrett Anderson?
We don’t have a first baseman. Our 2nd baseman is a career platooner that had a good enough of a year to merit being played full time – but isn’t that the same scenario that got Johnson the job at first? Yes, so what’s to say Prado doesn’t flame out as quickly as Johnson did?
Now toss in a declining and injury prone Chipper – no right fielder and Diaz in left and (trust me – I’m a fan, but also a realist and it gives me no pleasure saying this) if we have another off season where adding Anderson was the only real offensive move and watching this team play will be as exciting as a 10 year old boy’s soccer game where you aren’t related to anybody playing!
McFanny
December 7th, 2009
2:32 pm
trade McCann and bring up Christian Bethancourt, C :: B/T: R/R Born: 09/02/1991 Ht: 6′2″ Wt: 175
N8
December 7th, 2009
2:33 pm
Random, I’m aware that Towers is gone. But if you think the current GM (sorry, don’t know his name), won’t over-value their “Chipper Jones” in his prime? Dream on man.
Make no mistake. I think JJJ was our Ace last year. Not Vazquez. I also think that Hanson and JJJ will make the best 1-2 punch in baseball outside of Lincecum/Cain and Carpenter/Wainwright, for the next half decade.
But I also understand that because of how good JJJ is, and under control for so long, that he would bring us a guy like Gonzalez… as the centerpiece of the trade. Not the ONLY piece going to SD.
If Wren is willing to trade JJJ for Gonzalez, and the Padres accept ONLY Jurrjens for him, I’ll send you a bottle of whatever it is you like to drink (I pick the size of the bottle. LOL)
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
2:33 pm
Hopefully Lackey doesn’t sign with LA, Lowe would be their best option for a top of the rotation pitcher. Hopefully that would land us Rivera giving us someone to stick between Chip and McCann
macdwolfpack
December 7th, 2009
2:35 pm
OJ, when I added DOB to my twitter list it brings down a bunch of tweets. I added Mark Bowman and it did the same thing. Once you’ve read the tweet is there a way to delete it from you list or home page?
I’m really new at this Twitter thing as you can see
Mr. Snrub
December 7th, 2009
2:36 pm
Bobby Cox on XM…
Tomahawk Talk
December 7th, 2009
2:38 pm
looks like KJ will be traded this week. thats good news
http://twitter.com/stevehenson333
TDub
December 7th, 2009
2:40 pm
I would be very happy with Granderson in our OF, even if he is a lefty. If not him, I’m guessing Luke Scott or Spilborghs, though Uggla would work if the Fish could be persuaded to trade in their division. If they went Granderson, though, they”l amost have to go righty for 1B which counts out LaRoche… So maybe Uggla in LF and LaRoche at 1B?
itcouldbeworse
December 7th, 2009
2:43 pm
what would we get for kj a low .200 hitter with little power and no real defensive positon? I guess anything is better than having him on the bench right.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
2:44 pm
Mac, i dont know of a way to limit how many tweets you show on your home page. I checked all settings before and I dont show a way of doing that.
Bravoman
December 7th, 2009
2:45 pm
If the Braves are to make a move today hopefully they’d trade Kelly Johnson. I don’t know what we’d get in return but that’s almost 3 mil off the books.
shmoe
December 7th, 2009
2:48 pm
Just saw a ridiculous rumor on Twitter saying Alfonso Soriano for Lowe
DAP
December 7th, 2009
2:48 pm
scrootsBraves LH hitters vs LHP: .251/.317/.381
You can’t get that kind of stink off without a little extra soap, LOL. So, yes, I think handedness might be a consideration for an offseason offensive acquisition.
thats only half the info there scoots. its is a FACT that the braves ended up with better stats vs. righties than lefties. why does what their left handed hitters do matter? obviously, the righties picked up the slack.
by the way, the braves also had MORE than TWICE as many ABs in 2009 against right handers. so, enough of this “the east has alot of lefties for the braves to worry about” garbage.
so, what sense does it make to get a guy because he hits lefties well when A) the braves numbers versus lefties are better and B) the braves will face a right hander MORE THAN TWICE as much as they will face a left hander?
mgar
December 7th, 2009
2:50 pm
don’t know if this has been posted already, computer was acting up. The Reds are looking to shed payroll and move Brandon Phillips, why don’t the Braves make a play on him. Could move Prado to a corner outfield position or 1st base. Would add some pop and defense
Macon Braves (RIP)
December 7th, 2009
2:53 pm
mgar–We’ve had that discussion on here before. It wasn’t pretty. We have a second baseman, why would you move Prado from a position where he would be considered above average offensively to a position where he would be below average of what you want from that position?
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
2:54 pm
Bobby Cox was asked if there had been any thought to moving Chipper to first base: “There’s always talk of that. But no, we have not talked to Chipper about that at all this winter. He didn’t have his best year defensively last year. The year before, I thought he should have won the Gold Glove. He’s still a good player. His average was down a little last year; he just couldn’t get it going. But previous year he led the league in hitting. We still think he’s going to be productive.”
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
2:56 pm
why does what their left handed hitters do matter?
Because your original point was that there was no reason to consider handedness in an offseason pickup, and your reason was that the Braves hit lefties better than righties. Ergo, you must mean that their lefty hitters did just fine against LHP, since (almost) anybody knows that righty hitters will hit better against LHP and contribute to the better-against-lefties stat.
Did I miss something here, or are you just being mulish? Of course the Braves need a right-handed bat, almost as badly as they need a masher of any handedness.
Jimmy Joe
December 7th, 2009
2:56 pm
Looks like everyone will be up till 11:59 EST waiting on the Soriano decision.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
2:56 pm
Cox on the Braves’ starting pitching depth: “Really good starters. To allow us to get a hitter, we need to move one of them. They’ll be some knocks upstairs on our suite, that’s for sure.”
T. Scott
December 7th, 2009
2:57 pm
So, what would it take for the Bravos to pry Curtis Granderson and Miguel Carbera away from the Tigers? Just wondering….I would be willing to part ways with Freeman and Schafer….
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
2:59 pm
Cox said Prado will be in the lineup somewhere, wouldn’t say absolutely 2B, but said he’d be starting somewhere.
Of Kelly, Cox said, “Right now there’s some clubs knocking on the door for him.”
EL
December 7th, 2009
3:00 pm
Just heard a rumor that Edwin Jackson was traded to Mets
Patrick
December 7th, 2009
3:00 pm
Rumors are going around (mlbtraderumors.com) that the mets may be getting Edwin Jackson from Detroit.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
3:01 pm
T.Scott, I’ll guess Hanson or Jurrjens, Freeman, Schafer, Medlen, and probably one or two more good prospects for both Granderson & Cabrera. That ain’t happening.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
3:01 pm
I’m not ready to part with Schafer. Give the kid a break, he was a rookie playing hurt. It’s hard enough being a healthy rookie. We would always regret it if we sold Jordan down the river after about 100 Major League at bats.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
3:02 pm
Cox reiterated that Heyward would get a chance to win a job in spring training, and went on and on about him being the total package and how they saw enough of him last spring and then during the season to know what he can do.
He also said that if “push came to shove,” Freeman would be a candidate for first base. But I think that’s Bobby being positive Bobby more than anything else. He noted at the same time that Freeman just turned 20 and is “very young.”
Don’t really think the Braves see Freeman as a viable candidate for 1B to start season, at all.
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
3:03 pm
Crime Dog and the HOF – what do others think of Fred’s hof chances
does he get in after 6 or 7 tries ?
I would think he is a hof guy
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
3:03 pm
Watch out! Here come those might Mets & Edwin Jackson to take the league by storm. LOL
Mets fan
December 7th, 2009
3:03 pm
Edwin Jackson to the AMAZINS. Look out Braves fans!!!
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
3:06 pm
ncscoots: I would say that a future that includes Heyward, Schafer, and Freeman as core players increases, not lessens, the need for a big-time bat in the middle of the order. For a couple-three years, at least.
Ahhhhhh. well get ready for the lime light. We have Willingham, or Cameron, or Marlon Byrd, or maybe even Juan Pierre, on the radar to help those young kids through their struggles and carry the team on their back into the glory days of October baseball.
Honestly, there isn’t a slugger available, other than Adrian and maybe Cabrera (role model wise he’s a bit of a stretch) , that could guide and tuttle and lift and mash for the next three years.
owl hunter
December 7th, 2009
3:07 pm
Miggy ain’t comin’. Forget it.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
3:07 pm
Edwin Jackson to the Mets? BFD, thats like Oliver Perez to the Royals.
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
3:08 pm
push came to shove
That would be Soriano in the pen and six starting pitchers and a lot of “Thank you for your interest, but No” letters from GMs and free agents.
Macon Braves (RIP)
December 7th, 2009
3:08 pm
Prado in 09: 450 ABs with 38 2Bs and 11 HRs. Hit .307/.358/.822.
Phillips 09: 584 ABs with 30 2Bs and 20 HRs. Hit .276/.329/.776.
Phillips did steal 25 bases against only one by Prado. Prado made $415,000 last year and Phillips $5.2 million. I’m sure there is at least a small bump for each this year, but don’t know how much. Prado’s numbers are very good for a second baseman and below average for a first baseman or corner outfielder (unless Garret Anderson is your corner outfielder anyway
). I say keep Prado at second and spend that $5 million or more that Phillips would cost you toward a better first baseman.
PLOUFFE
December 7th, 2009
3:09 pm
Edwin Jackson to the AMAZINS. Look out Braves fans!!!
___________________________________________________________________
the rumor was “heard in the lobby” but not confirmed.
DAP
December 7th, 2009
3:09 pm
scrootsBecause your original point was that there was no reason to consider handedness in an offseason pickup,
nope, heres what i said:
“there is no reason to pursue a player based on what they do against lefties.”
this was in response that included a rejection of a player because of what he does against lefties.
your reason was that the Braves hit lefties better than righties. Ergo, you must mean that their lefty hitters did just fine against LHP, since (almost) anybody knows that righty hitters will hit better against LHP and contribute to the better-against-lefties stat.
no, scroots. ergo i meant the TEAM did better against lefties. exactly what i said. when clearly the right handers we have are doing well against lefties, and the lefties we have ARENT doing the same thing against righties (which is shown in the stats) what sense does it make to say “well, as a team we hit lefties better than righties. lets solve this by adding a righthanded bat that mashes lefties.” thats makes no sense.
if the team is looking to improve against pitchers of a certain handedness, the only logical thing is to improve against righties, since #1 they were worse against righties, and #2 we face more than twice as many righties.
im not against getting a righthander, for alot of reasons. but “so that we can hit left handers better” is a terrible and illogical reason.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
3:10 pm
Cox went deer hunting with Fredi Gonzalez, Ned Yost and Roger McDowell last week at Jeff Foxworth’s spread in South Georgia. Said Fredi had never gone and never pulled the trigger while they were out there.
Patrick
December 7th, 2009
3:14 pm
and mlbtraderumors.com said a mets official just SHOT DOWN the Edwin Jackson rumor
Bravo
December 7th, 2009
3:16 pm
Fredi needs to go huntin’ for a managerial job in the Braves’ dugout
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
3:21 pm
Mets pursuing Rivera and Willingham. BFD
Piedmont Blues
December 7th, 2009
3:24 pm
Don’t see how the Mets and Tigers match up for Edwin Jackson, anyway, especially since the Motor City Kitties are trying to trim payroll.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
3:26 pm
DOB
Think Cox’s Prado comment…may mean we might be trying to land a 2b…such as Uggla?
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
3:27 pm
Mets pursuing Rivera and Willingham. BFD
Aren’t those the same guys we might be considering?
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
3:28 pm
Cox on Heyward and whether his talent and readiness makes it difficult to plan and know whether Braves need a stopgap until he’s ready, etc:
“Well, we’ll see what happens. We’ll see. We’re not going to give anybody the job, but he’s going to be able to compete. If he wins it, he wins it.”
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
3:29 pm
Here we go folks…rumors…rumors…rumors….fast and furious
K with a K
December 7th, 2009
3:31 pm
DOB I have read that the D-Backs are looking for a pitcher and have room to add to thier salray this year(Lowe). What are your thoughts on Conor Jackson? Do you think since he can play 1B/LF and being a RH bat that he would be a good fit here in Atalata? Also do you think the 2011 mangaer position came-up at all on that hunting trip…Ned Yost maybe coming back to the Braves??
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
3:34 pm
Nova Scotia Steve, that’s what I was thinking when I read that about Prado. I don’t know if I’d be opposed to Prado playing 1st for a year, he looked fine over there to me when he played some this year. I know, I know, you need more production from that position than what Prado can give you, but it’d probably only be for a year.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
3:37 pm
Honestly, there isn’t a slugger available, other than Adrian and maybe Cabrera (role model wise he’s a bit of a stretch) , that could guide and tuttle and lift and mash for the next three years.
Always a possibility, and, too bad, if so. McCann will have to grow into it, I guess. 2012 could see the look of the Braves solidify, and, from here, it looks as if it will be a talented and very young core. Gonna need some veteran offensive presence in there somewhere, and I don’t mean David Eckstine.
keylargo
December 7th, 2009
3:38 pm
Yahoo’s Steve Henson says the Braves want to move Derek Lowe or Javier Vazquez, but not Kenshin Kawakami.
By Tim Dierkes [December 7, 2009 at 1:32pm CST]
Collecting some tweets I couldn’t quite turn into posts… Bill Shanks quoting Braves manager Bobby Cox: “clubs are knocking on the door for Kelly Johnson.”
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
3:39 pm
TnBrian
For sure man. And with Uggla at 2B at a relatively nice cost…we could put more dollars into that nice power hitting outfielder!
And I like Uggla..think he’d be a nice fit in the three hole in our line-up.
McLouth
Prado
Uggla
Jones
(Vacant OF position)
McCann
Escobar
Diaz/Heyward
Pitcher
McFann O
December 7th, 2009
3:39 pm
Brian McCann–
No…I don’t think so. I was talking about that svelte guy that catches for Braves who had trouble against lefties last year because his vision was impaired, making it harder to track a lot of pitches. Funny, he’s got the same name as you, but it doesn’t sound like you two have the same build–at least, not anymore. He was thicker in ‘08 but he still hit 23 HR and 42 doubles.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
3:41 pm
I think Juan Rivera would be a perfect fit for the Braves.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
3:42 pm
Keylargo.
David O’Brien
December 7th, 2009
2:59 pm
Cox said Prado will be in the lineup somewhere, wouldn’t say absolutely 2B, but said he’d be starting somewhere.
Of Kelly, Cox said, “Right now there’s some clubs knocking on the door for him.”
Anthony
December 7th, 2009
3:42 pm
k with a k,
ned yost as manager? Possibly. But I have a feeling that Wren will want to make his own stamp on the organization. I see the braves going outside their norm and making a hire for 2011.
Erik
December 7th, 2009
3:43 pm
DOB do you get a feeling the braves see two holes in the OF or just one?
Obviously with Church/Diaz there is platoon potential but with Church battling injuries and having limited effectiveness last season he is certainly a non tender candidate. Do you think the braves would get a big bat for LF or RF and then give Heyward a shot with Diaz and possibly a Anderson type veteran platoon as a backup?
Thoughts about a Lowe/LA reunion? Maybe Lowe/KJ/ Schaffer and salary relief lets say 4M(12M total) a year for Kemp? Then shift Nate to LF and let Kemp roam in CF. Talk about an athletic OF. Mclouth, Kemp and Heyward in 2010.
keylargo
December 7th, 2009
3:43 pm
I messed up the last part of Bobby Cox’s qoute on KJ. It should have read -
I expect KJ to be traded by Saturday.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
3:44 pm
What is with all the GM’s not being there and stuff and just now arriving? I thought the meetings were mandatory and had to be arriving Sunday.
Frankie Knuckles
December 7th, 2009
3:44 pm
Ohhhh, that mills spinnin!! Looks like we may move a pitcher this week. I’ve got a hunch it’ll be Javy.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
3:45 pm
How about Geoff Jenkins for our bench?
chris
December 7th, 2009
3:45 pm
just saw a report on espn saying that angels gm tony reagins hasnt arrived to the winter meeting yet. geez, talk about lacking….
Hillbilly
December 7th, 2009
3:46 pm
Foxworthy has got some enormous bucks out there at his place. He and Ned Yost are featured regularly on RealTree’s Monster Bucks Video Series. Wonder if Cox, or McDowell busted one of them.
Homer
December 7th, 2009
3:47 pm
Fire DOB..
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
3:49 pm
“Foxworthy has got some enormous bucks out there at his place.” – Are we talking about funding for the Braves….or deer.
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
3:50 pm
Andy K.,
How about Geoff Jenkins for our bench?
I like it. The Braves need a 5th OF and Genkins could fit that bill. By the way, if the Braves do sign Geoff Jenkins, we have to call him Genkins.
Flatbill Kid
December 7th, 2009
3:50 pm
DOB, just finished reading the blog. Great read as always. It is gonna be exciting to watch all this unfold.
Love Penelope Cruz.
So we get Luke Scott? Dye? Cameron? LaRoche? or Screwed by the Scowl?
K with a K
December 7th, 2009
3:51 pm
Anthony, I can see that happening too. But I know Yost has been out of the game for awhile and that Bobby will have “some” input on who the next manager will be. I just thought you know thier aren’t enough rumors flying around I should try to get one going! What do you think about Conor Jackson …think he would be a good fit as a Brave?
Random
December 7th, 2009
3:51 pm
N8 (December 7th, 2009 2:33 pm): “If Wren is willing to trade JJJ for Gonzalez, and the Padres accept ONLY Jurrjens for him, I’ll send you a bottle of whatever it is you like to drink (I pick the size of the bottle. LOL)”
Does Nyquil come in jereboams?
Warren Haynes for President
December 7th, 2009
3:52 pm
DOB,
When you get back from the meetings you need to get your best albums of the year/ decade out with plenty of time before X-Mas. I may need it to help steer my wish list/ shopping list. Any preliminary previews that would appeal in particular to a Drive-By Truckers, James McMurtry, ect fan?
NC Braves Fan
December 7th, 2009
3:52 pm
Dan Uggla is not a good fit. Guy is terrible defensively. No thanks.
SoWeGa Fanatic
December 7th, 2009
3:52 pm
Personally, I’d rather talk deer than music or movies.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
3:53 pm
P. W. Hjort-Also, MLBTR says Jenkins has been practicing at first, so he could also spell whoever our 1B ends up being. I’d have Wren or Kemp or whoever go watch him practice, but after that, then I’d say go for it.
RR
December 7th, 2009
3:53 pm
Nick Pietruszkiewicz: More Dusty, this time on Bobby Cox and this being the Braves’ manager’s final year: “That’s what Bobby says. He might be doing the Brett Favre.”
DUSTY BAKER’S TAKE ON COX
TommyP
December 7th, 2009
3:57 pm
I really think Juan Rivera is #1 on our wish list. I’d bet that the Braves make a very strong push to acquire him.
We’d also have to have a deal for one of Lowe or Vazquez lined up to clear salary but I think Rivera is going to be the guy we get.
Hillbilly
December 7th, 2009
3:58 pm
“Foxworthy has got some enormous bucks out there at his place.” – Are we talking about funding for the Braves….or deer.
Probably both, but I was referring to deer.
P-Town Brave
December 7th, 2009
3:59 pm
DOB-
Fredi doesn’t need to pull the trigger…what with Roger over on the grassy knoll behind the bushes and all
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
3:59 pm
TommyP, what makes you think Rivera is #1 on our wish list? Have you heard something?
Jimmy Joe
December 7th, 2009
3:59 pm
Soriano to the Yanks makes a lot of sense. 2 years-14m.
Homer
December 7th, 2009
4:00 pm
Fire SoWeGa Fanatic!
RC
December 7th, 2009
4:02 pm
I really think Juan Rivera is #1 on our wish list. I’d bet that the Braves make a very strong push to acquire him.
We’d also have to have a deal for one of Lowe or Vazquez lined up to clear salary but I think Rivera is going to be the guy we get.
Why not Lowe for Riveria? The Angels needs someone to replace Lackey, and Lowe is the most comparable among those pitchers that are available. If I were the Angels I’d ask for a mid-level prospect as well, but I think the needs of each club make sense here.
Bravo
December 7th, 2009
4:02 pm
What’s the difference between beer nuts and deer nuts?
Deer nuts are under a BUCK!
waka, waka, waka…
Random
December 7th, 2009
4:05 pm
Jair Jurrjens and Christian Bethancourt for Adrian Gonzalez and cash.
Quizknow
December 7th, 2009
4:06 pm
Bravo, just what we need to lighten the mood — some Junior High humor; but that sure didn’t stop me from rolling on the floor…. As I always say about myself, “small minds are amused in small ways.”
RC
December 7th, 2009
4:08 pm
Really interesting article on FanGraphs suggesting that teams should consider Kelly Johnson as an alternative to Mark DeRosa. Here’s the “money quote” – Teams interested in this type of player should be viewing DeRosa as a backup plan if they can’t get Johnson, not the other way around.
Bravo
December 7th, 2009
4:09 pm
Hillbilly talking about bucks made me think of it. Can’t be any more nonsensical than the blog hiring, firing, and turning over 2/3 of the roster.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
4:10 pm
Well well well I guess we won’t be non-tendering Kelly Johnson now will we.
Lew
December 7th, 2009
4:11 pm
OJ-I would hardly think that the acquisition of Edwin Jackson makes the Mets’ offseason all that bright, given their multitude of needs, but never doubt that the Dude can pitch. It IS a good pick up for them. Jackson’s a good mid-rotation starter.
Bobby
December 7th, 2009
4:12 pm
RC: Thanks for the heads-up about the fangraphs piece. Amazing how many on the blog are ready to non-tender Johnson and sign DeRosa.
bravito199
December 7th, 2009
4:12 pm
RC
Link the article
Crazy Trades McGee
December 7th, 2009
4:13 pm
Get Matt Murton on the cheap…
Lew
December 7th, 2009
4:13 pm
Well, some of us are ready to non-tender Kelly, anyway.
RC
December 7th, 2009
4:13 pm
http://www.fangraphs.com
First article on the page.
Anthony
December 7th, 2009
4:14 pm
Conor Jackson?? Depends. I don’t know enough about it but he can play first base/left field, which would give us some flexibility. If the diamondbacks are willing to take the majority of Lowe’s contract, I wouldn’t care what we get in return for him. Getting rid of that contract would be enough in my opinion. Although I’m sure getting a decent hitter in return is what Wren is looking for.
bravito199
December 7th, 2009
4:15 pm
Thanks man
CB
December 7th, 2009
4:16 pm
Lew, the Mets- Jackson rumor was shot down.
Jimmy Joe
December 7th, 2009
4:16 pm
Look at the bright side, if Soriano accepts, that means we have Soriano, Vazquez, Wagner, and Saito coming off the books next year at around 30 million dollars. Only Moylan, Diaz, Escobar, Jurrjens, Eric O and Prado are eligible for arbitration. Plus raises to McCann, McLouth, and Infante. But hey, we’ll just need a brand new bullpen again…..maybe offense…….
DiamondbackMac
December 7th, 2009
4:17 pm
macdwolfpack
OJ, when I added DOB to my twitter list it brings down a bunch of tweets. I added Mark Bowman and it did the same thing. Once you’ve read the tweet is there a way to delete it from you list or home page?
I’m really new at this Twitter thing as you can see
You have to go back to Bowman’s site and click on the button with the icon that looks like a sprocket then click on “Unfollow”. The same goes for ajcbraves.
TennesseePaul
December 7th, 2009
4:18 pm
Why not Lowe for Riveria?
Probably rests somewhere in the Angles’ outfield surplus. Trade Riveria, or trade MattHGHews Jr? It might be a stretch but I think the Angels prefer Rivera to MattHGHews Jr.
RC
December 7th, 2009
4:18 pm
In my opinion, Conor Jackson would be a good “buy-low” candidate, but should NOT be counted on as the impact hitter we acquire this offseason. To me he seems a little bit too much like a right-handed Casey Kotchman, with faster legs.
Knox MC
December 7th, 2009
4:19 pm
Just spitballin’ here…. The Nats are looking for a middle infielder and a young arm under club control. Would either party consider a KJ and Medlen for Willingham trade? I would be reluctant to trade Medlen, and I’m not sure how up on Willingham I am, but it seems plausible. Again, just spitballin’…..
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
4:19 pm
Also, MLBTR says Jenkins has been practicing at first, so he could also spell whoever our 1B ends up being. I’d have Wren or Kemp or whoever go watch him practice, but after that, then I’d say go for it.
Yeah, yeah, but we’d have a guy we could call Genkins. Which is way more important!
RC
December 7th, 2009
4:23 pm
Just spitballin’ here…. The Nats are looking for a middle infielder and a young arm under club control. Would either party consider a KJ and Medlen for Willingham trade? I would be reluctant to trade Medlen, and I’m not sure how up on Willingham I am, but it seems plausible. Again, just spitballin’…..
I would hope that the Braves wouldn’t trade Medlen for Willingham straight up. One is a very good young arm under team control for another 5 years….the other is a mediocre corner outfielder who has 2 more years of arbitration before becoming a free agent. I don’t see it.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
4:23 pm
Yeah, yeah, but we’d have a guy we could call Genkins. Which is way more important!
The man has his priorities straight, is what I’m sayin’.
Especially at this time of the year, LOL.
MattyRoss
December 7th, 2009
4:24 pm
Not saying there’s anything to read between the lines there, but those might have been the most lukewarm comments I’ve ever heard from Bobby about Chipper Jones.
AdirondackDave
December 7th, 2009
4:27 pm
Matty Ross — I thought the same thing about Bobby’s comments about Chipper.
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
4:28 pm
Medlen is an incredibly valuable commodity. More valuable than Jurrjens for me, given his extra year of service (possibly 2 if he spends another month in the minors) and the fact that he’s always had better K and BB rates than Jurrjens. Not to take away from Jurrjens, he’s an extremely valuable commodity, too. But people often under-cut just how much talent and how good of a contract Medlen has.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
4:29 pm
P. W. Hjort “More valuable than Jurrjens”? He’s good, but come on man.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
4:30 pm
matt murton went to Japan, so no go there.
Brandon O
December 7th, 2009
4:33 pm
P.W are you on Drugs.
Gthebrave
December 7th, 2009
4:35 pm
wow pw you even watch the braves
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 7th, 2009
4:35 pm
P. W. Hjort,
I’m going to disregard your last post, pal.
Moe Berg
December 7th, 2009
4:36 pm
“Just spitballin’ here…. The Nats are looking for a middle infielder and a young arm under club control. Would either party consider a KJ and Medlen for Willingham trade? I would be reluctant to trade Medlen, and I’m not sure how up on Willingham I am, but it seems plausible. Again, just spitballin’…..”
We already sent them another cast-off of the baby Braves (Langerhans) who worked out abysmally for them. They might be skeptical about another.
fsugolf
December 7th, 2009
4:38 pm
if we trade for rivera which i wouldnt mind if we could dump lowe then who do yall think we get to play 1st also is there a chance to sign cameron or another outfielder too plus a power hitting 1st baseman just a suggestion
c mccann
1st unknown
2nd parado
ss escobar
3rd jones
of mclouth
of rivera
of diaz or someone else
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 7th, 2009
4:39 pm
Medlen is a good pitcher, and will be great someday, but never better than Jurrjens
Greg Olson Homers
December 7th, 2009
4:39 pm
Whoever ends up in second/third place in the Lackey race is going to trade a bag of balls for Derek Lowe. That is how I see it, and love it.
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
4:41 pm
PWH, I think we need to see a bit more of Medlen to declare him more valuable than Jair. 434 major league innings to 67 major league innings is quite a large gap. I like Medlen a lot, but one less year of service time and a higher K rate(in 67 innings) than Jair isn’t going to make me think he is more valuable. Of course, you could just start spitting out Medlen’s minor league body of work and what not. But I still wouldn’t consider him more valuable. Jurrjens is a year younger than Medlen.
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
4:41 pm
Jurrjens contract: ‘10: League minimum, ‘11: arb 1, ‘12 arb 2, ‘13 arb 3
Medlen contract: ‘10: League minimum, ‘11: league minimum , ‘12 arb 1, ‘13, arb 2, ‘14 arb 3, ‘15 arb 4
Medlen is under contract for two more years than Jurrjens.
monty
December 7th, 2009
4:41 pm
THink Cox was sending “You know Who” a message. ” We still think he can be productive.” Even though he wasn’t last year. Message received loud and clear.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
4:43 pm
Medlen is a good pitcher, and will be great someday, but never better than Jurrjens
Might want to wait just a hair on that Jurrjens love boat. He might be Glavine with a better fastball, or reality might catch up with his peripherals. Just no way to tell yet, and probably won’t be, until after the fact.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
4:45 pm
Mark Bowman: Have you thought about going into the Hall of Fame before Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz?
Bobby Cox: I told them I want to live long enough to see them inducted. Smoltzie is going to pitch forever, I think. Maddux finally left last year. And Glavine, he’s not going to pitch this year.
I literally burst out laughing when I read Cox’s comment on Glavine.
Really????? He couldn’t come up with something better to say about Tom Glavine – The 1995 World Series MVP – Dear Lord
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
4:45 pm
It’s call your bluff time in Indy.
Wren insists that whether or not Soriano (or even Gonzalez, for that matter) accepts arbitration, it’s “not a big deal” for the Braves and it won’t slow them in their ongoing construction of the team. His reasoning: Whether or not the agent is confident that Soriano can get a multi-year deal worth passing up arbitration for, the Braves are confident that the market for relievers will heat up in coming weeks, as it has in past years.
And then, Wren said he believes the agent (or agents) would come to the Braves asking for their clients to be traded, because they’re not going to be happy in the roles that would be there for them if they came back to the Braves.
“We feel protected either way,” Wren said. “A. They don’t accept [arbitraition]. B., they accept and at some point we trade them. It’s not a big deal either way.”
Wren said that the payroll thing wouldn’t be a short-term detriment, when I asked him if the Braves would have to account for the $7-8 mill salary Soriano might get, whether they’d have to move someone else or not sign someone else until they got rid of Soriano, etc. They have flexibility to operate with payroll above targeted amount short-term, in other words.
“We wouldn’t worry about that [Soriano accepting arb) holding us back. We’re going to put our club together. That’s the thing about having good players — when you have good players, you can trade them.”
RC
December 7th, 2009
4:47 pm
Jurrjens contract: ‘10: League minimum, ‘11: arb 1, ‘12 arb 2, ‘13 arb 3
Medlen contract: ‘10: League minimum, ‘11: league minimum , ‘12 arb 1, ‘13, arb 2, ‘14 arb 3, ‘15 arb 4
Medlen is under contract for two more years than Jurrjens.
P.W. Hjort, your numbers are off on Medlen’s contract. He EITHER a) gets arb 1 in 2011, arb 2 ‘12, arb 3 ‘13, arb 4 ‘14 OR league min ‘11, arb 1 ‘12, arb 2 ‘13, arb 3 ‘14. Either way he’s a free agent in 2015, meaning you get him for ONE more year than Jurrjens.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
4:47 pm
Interest in Kelly has been higher than Braves thought when they came here, at least one or two teams have expressed interest since they got here.
Wren said as far as their pursuit of a big bat, he didn’t know if that or trading a pitcher would happen this week. Said that the market is, like last year, slower so far at meetings because teams are waiting for the non-tender date to see what other players might become free agents.
“Clubs are waiting to see what might be out there,” he said. “It makes this a difficult week to try to get things done.”
monty
December 7th, 2009
4:48 pm
Maybe Medlen can become a very successful pitcher along the lines of a Maddux. HIs fastball is faster than Gregs, don’t think it moves as much, but his best pitch is that changeup that makes lefties look silly. He will need to work on throwing all of his pitches in any count. But at this point I have to disagree that he is more valuable than JJ, who may be the most valuable pitcher on the team.
Nate from NCState
December 7th, 2009
4:49 pm
I think some of you guys are reading WAY to much into what Bobby is saying. I don’t think he is sending any messages to Chipper that he, Chipper, hasn’t sent to himself. Chipper was the one talking about retiring if he couldn’t produce better than he did last year.
If Bobby was so faithful to Greg Norton, how faithful do you think he is going to be to the face of the Braves franchise for the past 10 years or so?
Homer
December 7th, 2009
4:49 pm
DOB stay in Indy. Find a new job.
ncscoots
December 7th, 2009
4:49 pm
I notice that Wren did not go with an Option C, i.e., “We’d be happy to have a player of his caliber on the team.” LOL
“Accept, if you want; we’ll just trade your bleep.” Pow! Bam!
ATLB1995
December 7th, 2009
4:50 pm
MATTYROSS —-> Where did you get Cox’s Chipper quotes from?
rtrafford
December 7th, 2009
4:50 pm
on Glavine…is it just me or does that read along the lines of “thank goodness Tommy is gone”?
One day, one bus, both Chipper and TommyG…
RC
December 7th, 2009
4:51 pm
Wow, suprising comments by Wren. I mean, everyone knows Soriano doesn’t fit into the Braves plans, but I expected a more diplomatic answer than “A. They don’t accept [arbitraition]. B., they accept and at some point we trade them. It’s not a big deal either way.”
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
4:52 pm
Here’s another quote from Wren about Soriano’s situation (and Gonzalez’s if Boras were to try the same tact, though no one anticipates Boras will and he’s not indicated he’s even considering accepting arbitration; he’s just said nothing about it).
Wren: “I would anticipate that if they take arbitration, they’re not necessarily going to be happy with the roles they have when they come back. Because they’re not going to be the same as when they left. And once the market develops for relievers, they’ll be asking us to try to [trade] them.”
A.S.
December 7th, 2009
4:53 pm
Can the Braves pursue upton or granderson?
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
4:54 pm
Homer: Nah, it’s cold here. I like Atlanta. See ya soon.
FEAR
December 7th, 2009
4:54 pm
soriano’s agent is just playing the game. He will sign else where.
njbraves
December 7th, 2009
4:56 pm
Monty…did you really just compare Medlen to Greg Maddux??? Really??
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
4:56 pm
HAHAHAH DOB
I don’t know what this homer guy has against you…but pretty funny you took the time to respond seeing how busy you are.
And i’m not being sarcastic. I’m amused…lol
Random
December 7th, 2009
4:56 pm
Jimmy Joe (December 7th, 2009 4:16 pm): “Look at the bright side, if Soriano accepts, that means we have Soriano, Vazquez, Wagner, and Saito coming off the books next year at around 30 million dollars.”
Yeah, and if we sign manRam for a year, we’ll have $50 million coming off the books next year.
RC
December 7th, 2009
4:57 pm
Wren: “I would anticipate that if they take arbitration, they’re not necessarily going to be happy with the roles they have when they come back. Because they’re not going to be the same as when they left. And once the market develops for relievers, they’ll be asking us to try to [trade] them.”
Why do I keep imagining Wren following up that last quote with “what now, b****es?”
civilized white trash
December 7th, 2009
4:57 pm
Homer’s my hero
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
4:58 pm
Wren is the man. I don’t care what anyone says.
This guy has baseballs.
Home of the Braves
December 7th, 2009
4:58 pm
I’ve got to complement Wren’s work so far this offseason. He worked behind the scenes and lined up contracts for Wagner and Saito. Then he offered arbitration to both Gonzo and Soriano even though most thought he’d only offer to one. Having already virtually locked up his closer and set-up man, he CREATED the RP market by taking two of the top options off the board.
Not only did that make it more likely that Soriano and Gonzo would not accept arb (though no one really ever thought Gonzo would), but it also forced other teams interested in RPs to be aggressive early so that they did not miss out on all the good ones.
Even if Soriano accepts, Wren will know who’s in the hunt for RPs (because he’s forced them to show their hands by being so aggressive), and he’ll be able to work a trade to keep the payroll at a reasonable level.
Not sure everyone will follow that logic, but if you do, you’ll see just how brilliant Wren’s strategy has been so far this offseason. Hope he keeps up the good work.
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
4:58 pm
can’t wait until the 11 p.m. – 1 a.m. time frame… sounds like it could be a blitzkreig of activity with the arbitartion deadline and then teams swooping in to snatch up those who turn it down. As TO would say: I got my popcorn ready!
indianabravesfan
December 7th, 2009
4:59 pm
DOB, you need to head to the Slippery Noodle for some good blues. it is within walking distance from the hotels!! gotta love the Indiana weather this time of year!!!
AndyC
December 7th, 2009
4:59 pm
DOB or anyone
What is the deadline for non-tender decisions?
Jimmy Joe
December 7th, 2009
5:00 pm
soriano’s agent is just playing the game. He will sign else where.FEAR
We haven’t heard any team have significant interest in Soriano. I fully expect him to accept the offer tonight. And why in the world would a team trade the Braves anything more than a c-level prospect for Soriano, knowing that they can’t go into the season with him. Wren is the one bluffing. He should of waited on signing Saito.
rammerjammer
December 7th, 2009
5:00 pm
Frank takes no prisoners.
Rob - in pain (from SC)
December 7th, 2009
5:01 pm
12th
Rob - in pain (from SC)
December 7th, 2009
5:01 pm
12th
Bravo
December 7th, 2009
5:01 pm
Redstick, you can read about it all tomorrow dude. It’s just reporters talking about contracts, not like you’d be missing live game action…
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
5:04 pm
Midnight is only 10pm for me. Easy money!
Bravo
December 7th, 2009
5:05 pm
*”He should of waited on signing Saito”*
Should of, could of, would of…
That’s gold, Jerry!
RC
December 7th, 2009
5:05 pm
And why in the world would a team trade the Braves anything more than a c-level prospect for Soriano, knowing that they can’t go into the season with him.
Because there are going to be way more than one team looking for a reliever of Soriano’s stature once the dust settles. Aside from Gonzalez, who else is available that anyone would want over Soriano? Lindstrom? Valverde?
Face is, the reason a team would trade more than a c-level prospect is because they know that the other teams in their division would likely trade more.
Jimmy Joe
December 7th, 2009
5:07 pm
the reason a team would trade more than a c-level prospect is because they know that the other teams in their division would likely trade more.RC
If they were that interested, they would just sign the guy.
FEAR
December 7th, 2009
5:07 pm
jimmy joe. from jon heyman: Heyman notes that Soriano has attracted interest from the Yankees, Orioles, and Astros
FEAR
December 7th, 2009
5:07 pm
jimmy joe. from jon heyman: Heyman notes that Soriano has attracted interest from the Yankees, Orioles, and Astros
Bravo
December 7th, 2009
5:07 pm
Wayne, there should be some advantage to living with all the bearded women in Utah.
O.J.
December 7th, 2009
5:08 pm
I hate that they want to wait for another date to pass. Why cant the non-tender date be before the Winter meetings, or have the winter meetings after the non-tender date. It sucks waiting around for news, lol.
RC
December 7th, 2009
5:09 pm
Dave Cameron has a fantastic “Guide to Rumor Lingo” up at FanGraphs:
A Person Familiar With The Negotiations – Someone who has refreshed MLBTradeRumors.com constantly.
Major League Source – Charlie Sheen.
A Source With Knowledge Of The Player’s Thoughts – The player’s agent.
A Baseball Official – An engineer at Rawlings.
Guy Who Gave Jon Heyman His Information – Scott Boras.
If anyone wants to see the rest, here is the link: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/guide-to-rumor-lingo
RC
December 7th, 2009
5:11 pm
the reason a team would trade more than a c-level prospect is because they know that the other teams in their division would likely trade more.RC
If they were that interested, they would just sign the guy.
They CAN’T sign Soriano if he accepts arbitration. That’s where the “when the dust settles” part of my comment comes in.
18 Wheels of Love
December 7th, 2009
5:12 pm
Get ‘em Frank!
I dub thee Frank the Tank!
Bobby
December 7th, 2009
5:12 pm
DOB: Any thoughts on the fangraphs piece comparing DeRosa and Johnson? Also, with the higher than expected interest in Johnson, is it possible that increases his chances of being tendered in order to give the Braves more time to evaluate trade offers?
dmack2027
December 7th, 2009
5:12 pm
Wren is covering his own a@s. Depending on how this turns out, he may have made a mistake moving on Wagner and Saito before these guys decline arbitration.
civilized white trash
December 7th, 2009
5:13 pm
bravo i disagree with you completely there actually may be more hot girls in utah then there is in georgia
Pickens
December 7th, 2009
5:14 pm
Why doe Karl Ravech from Baseball Tonight absolutely despise the Braves? It’s obvious and it makes me sick. He talks so slick but in reality he’s overrated.
RC
December 7th, 2009
5:14 pm
Enter your comments here
Jimmy Joe
December 7th, 2009
5:14 pm
jimmy joe. from jon heyman: Heyman notes that Soriano has attracted interest from the Yankees, Orioles, and AstrosFEAR
I can find you articles stating that the Orioles would rather not waste a draft pick on a reliever. And the Astos have no money and the Yanks aren’t going after middle relievers on December 7th. Soriano is accepting.
Daniel
December 7th, 2009
5:16 pm
Dave- I am not sure what the value of Soriano “playing chicken” with the Braves and arbitration. What is there to gained for Soriano?
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
5:16 pm
I don’t think Homer is a big O’Brien fan.
Jimmy Joe
December 7th, 2009
5:17 pm
What is there to gained for Soriano?Daniel
A one year deal worth 7-8 million.
RC
December 7th, 2009
5:17 pm
bravo i disagree with you completely there actually may be more hot girls in utah then there is in georgia
Yeah, I hear in Utah there’s LITERALLY two girls for every boy
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
5:17 pm
RC (December 7th, 2009 4:47 pm EST) P.W. Hjort, your numbers are off on Medlen’s contract. He EITHER a) gets arb 1 in 2011, arb 2 ‘12, arb 3 ‘13, arb 4 ‘14 OR league min ‘11, arb 1 ‘12, arb 2 ‘13, arb 3 ‘14. Either way he’s a free agent in 2015, meaning you get him for ONE more year than Jurrjens.
No. That’s incorrect. My numbers are not wrong.
As of right now, Kris Medlen has between 0 and 1 years of service time. We’ll call it 150 days (I don’t know the exact figure, but 2 years, 150 days qualifies you for Super 2 and Medlen will qualify for super 2 if he doesn’t spend any more time in the minors, so it’s a useful number in this case).
Assuming he spends all of 2010 on the active MLB roster, he’ll have 1 year, 150 days of service time (between 1 and 2 years). Per Wikipedia, these are the rules of eligibility for salary arbitration:
A player is eligible for salary arbitration if he:
1. is ineligible for free agency
2. is without a contract
3. cannot agree with his current team on a new contract
4. has been on a major league roster or disabled list for at least three years
“Super Two” exception[3] – A player with at least two years of experience may be eligible for salary arbitration if he:
1. Meets the first three requirements from above
2. Played in the majors for at least 86 days in the previous season
3. Is among the top 17 percent for cumulative playing time in the majors among others with at least 2 years, but less than 3 years experience
In 2011, seeing as there’s only 1 year between now and then (2010) to accumulate service time and seeing as he currently has less than one year of total service time, there’s zero chance he has two or more total years of service time. Therefore, he’s not arbitration eligible by the 3-year requirement or the super-2 exception.
Under no circumstances will Kris Medlen be arbitration-eligible in 2011.
If he spends a month in the minors between April 2010 and December 2011, he’ll have ~2 years, 120 days of service time, and he won’t be arbitration-eligible under the 3-year rule or the super-2 exemption in 2012. If he doesn’t spend any time in the minors between April 2010 and December 2011, he’ll have ~2 years 150 days of service time, and he will be arbitration eligible under the super-2 exemption in 2012.
In 2013, he will be arbitration eligible, either for the first time if he’s not a super-2 or the 2nd time if he is.
In 2014 he will be arbitration eligible, for the 2nd time if he’s not a super-2 or the 3rd time if he is.
At this point, he has accumulated either 5 years, 150 days if he was a super-2 or 5 years, 120 days if he wasn’t a super-2. Either way, it’s between 5 and 6 years.
Again, per Wikipedia, the rules for FA eligibility:
If a player is drafted and is offered a contract by his drafting team (or any team he is traded to) each year, he may not become a free agent until he has been on a major league 25-man roster or disabled list for at least six years.
Seeing as in either scenario, Kris Medlen will not have accumulated 6 years of service time, he is not eligible for Free Agency.
So, in 2015, will be arbitration eligible, for the 3rd time if he’s not a super-2 or the 4th time if he is.
Under no circumstances (other than whatever organization he’s in non-tendering him) will Kris Medlen be a free agent in 2015.
semiballcoach
December 7th, 2009
5:17 pm
soriano could be another farnsworth… more comfortable in as a set up man….if the yankees are interested, why in the world would you even consider arbitration unless you know that you can’t take the late inning pressure…..
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
5:18 pm
Karl Ravich is a pecker head to the highest degree. He always looks like he’s about to say something smart a** & he usually does.
shmoe
December 7th, 2009
5:19 pm
PICKENS….why what did karl the ravesher say?
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 2009
5:19 pm
Why do I get the feeling that this is how Frank Wren looked during his interviews with David O’Brien, Bill Shanks and Mark Bowman this afternoon when discussing Soriano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ5YeA0HqYs&feature=fvw
CB
December 7th, 2009
5:20 pm
RC, Wayne from Utah needs some good odds with his looks.
Daniel
December 7th, 2009
5:20 pm
RC- that last post was hilarious.
RC
December 7th, 2009
5:21 pm
P. W. Hjort,
I think you are correct. I got mixed up in my head counting the years, but I agree that Medlen won’t be an FA until AFTER 2015. Sorry for incorrectly correcting you.
N8
December 7th, 2009
5:22 pm
I absolutely LOVE that Wren is basically saying that if Soriano wants to get paid 8 million bucks to work the 6th inning, fine with him (wink wink).
Because he’s right. The team can’t be hamstrung when deciding what direction to go with their team (like a certain HOF QB did to his Packers for 4 or 5 off-seasons in a row). Sh!t or get off the pot.
Wren’s got a club to build and he shouldn’t have to wait for a wishy washy player/agent combo trying to milk every penny out of the market, to put his club together.
If Soriano wanted so much to be a Brave, he and his agent could have come to Wren in August and stated that much and I’m sure a reasonable contract (like the one given Wagner) could have been worked out.
Instead, he now realizes that 10 teams aren’t going to throw him a 3 year 30 million dollar contract, so he might decide to “settle” for returning to Atlanta.
Good luck with that.
RC
December 7th, 2009
5:24 pm
Nova Scotia Steve, that youtube clip is hilarious. If anyone can photoshop Wren’s face onto that video, I will be eternally grateful.
Jay Dub
December 7th, 2009
5:24 pm
DOB – I’m having a hard time deciding which way Wren is trying to push Soriano. Obviously, he’s so tight lipped that when he (Wren) does open up … it seems to be with a purpose. Soriano’s agent will be taking to GMs this week … and they’ve just been told by Wren (through you) that if there is no market and he accepts arb instead … there is still the potential to trade for him later.
Is it your feeling that he wants Soriano to decline arb … or would he prefer a valuable trade chip?
civilized white trash
December 7th, 2009
5:25 pm
rc
touche sounds like wayne is a smart man for moving there then
Redstick19
December 7th, 2009
5:26 pm
Bravo-
Yeah, I know I can read about it later… I was just saying that I’m jonesing bad for some real baseball news rather than all of us just guessing and tossing out our own trade scenarios. That’s all.
BravesfaninWis
December 7th, 2009
5:28 pm
DOB,
I loved your comment at 4:54 towards Homer. Calm, yet to the point. Hilarious.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
5:28 pm
Oh, and about earlier Stan Kasten comment: He lives in Atlanta still, so probably just coming from home to Indy. He laughed when I told him what I’d written about him possibly visiting with Smoltz while there (Kasten is Nationals president, and there’s supposedly “mutual interest” between the Nats and Smoltz). Kasten wouldn’t say whether he saw Smoltz while in town.
Pickens
December 7th, 2009
5:32 pm
Shmoe-He just always has belittled the Braves. Just his overall tone. I mean i dont expect espn to talk about the braves more because Boston, NY, Chicago, and LA dominate the show.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
December 7th, 2009
5:37 pm
DOB, I don’t think LaRoche He doesn’t get hot until July and we will be out of the race. Can we trade Soriano after arbitration for a big bat. I’d love to see Derosa at 2nd.
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
5:37 pm
MLBTR:
Earlier today, Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald tweeted that the Red Sox met with Escobar’s agent Peter Greenberg, who also represents Rafael Soriano.
http://twitter.com/MikeSilvermanBB/status/6443490561
Come on, Theo. Hand over that first for Sori….or Gonzo(both of which have a higher Elias ranking than Scutaro. Of course, Matt Holliday has a higher ranking than Sori and Gonzo, so it may not be beneficial)
Bobby
December 7th, 2009
5:39 pm
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger: Why would you love to see DeRosa at 2B over Prado or Johnson for that matter? Not worth the additional cost at 2B.
FEAR
December 7th, 2009
5:39 pm
i was just gonna post that greenberg thing
shmoe
December 7th, 2009
5:39 pm
I haven’t looked into it much but Foxsports is reporting that Rays are interested in trading Upton and Wade for Halladay. Blue Jays would flip Upton to another team? Maybe Braves would be interested in that scenario?
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
5:39 pm
DOB:
Nice try with KASTEN.
Hjort Dork
December 7th, 2009
5:40 pm
Medlen, better than Jurrjens? More valuable than JJ????
And schit splatters when it hits the fan. For stupid man……..but funny as hell!!!!!!!!
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
5:41 pm
Thanks for the apology, RC, though an apology isn’t necessary. All is well.
Jeff R
December 7th, 2009
5:42 pm
If Soriano or Gonzo accept arbitration, I’ll eat my Braves’ road cap.
Slow isn’t necessarily bad at ye olde winter meetings. Rather Wren take it slowly, which he seems to be doing. As much as it would be nice for Wren to make news at Indy, he’s got the rest of the winter and into the spring to make deals that really leverage Lowe or Vazquez, or to sign a power bat and a 1B.
richbrave
December 7th, 2009
5:42 pm
So is MFIKY gonna’ wait until 11:59 p.m. tonight? Come on already. BTW, has GONZO declared already or will be a double dip at midnight?
raymond
December 7th, 2009
5:43 pm
We need a heck of a lot more than Josh Willingham. The Braves are trying to build a team like the Braves of the early 90’s and that won’t get it today, we need more offense.
Mitchie-san
December 7th, 2009
5:44 pm
Its been reported before about B.J. Upton possibly being available and it looks like he still might be. I have been hoping for a trade for him for a while. He is still young and will be very, very good one day.
C’mon Wren! There is your right handed power guy how can also steal bases. Go get him….take the gamble!
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
5:45 pm
Medlen, better than Jurrjens?
Never said that. And better doesn’t mean more valuable. Contracts, dimwit.
balla1881
December 7th, 2009
5:46 pm
I like Adrian Gonzalez. Could we trade Lowe, Schafer and Kj for him?
Also, the rumors about Edwin Jackson to the mets made me a little nervous, but then I realized that i should be more nervous about facing the Phillies with their addition of Polanco a few weeks ago. Maybe the addition of Soriano wouldn’t be so bad. We’re not going to beat them in the playoffs without a disgustingly good set of 3 starters and a shutdown bullpen, because we’re not going to out hit them….we’re just not
brian
December 7th, 2009
5:54 pm
balla – the pads would laugh at that offer and counter with Hanson, Escobar, and Freeman
civilized white trash
December 7th, 2009
5:55 pm
balla agreed
good thing is good pitching usually beats great hitting
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
5:55 pm
Just a few points of clarification:
1) The females in Utah, while bearded, at least have the majority of their teeth remaining.
2) Two girls for every boy……Idaho, not Utah.
3) Yes, I am ugly, so I must be on my best behavior to be able to keep the good looking lady I wed 32+ years ago (of course, it might help that she is blind).
The moral of the story is this, if you are one ugly southern boy, looking for companionship, come to Utah where the bearded women are plentiful and still have most of their teeth…..as opposed to some areas of the south.
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
5:56 pm
monty – Maddog had a 92mph heater at his peak in Cys 92-95
what does the little dog Medlen throw ???
DHD
December 7th, 2009
5:57 pm
If SD took that package for Gonzalez, the GM would be fired immediately.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
5:57 pm
The Padres will NOT take a large contract. Same with about 3/4 of the major league teams out there.
Frank Wren interview today
December 7th, 2009
5:58 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related
FEAR
December 7th, 2009
5:58 pm
not gonna happen unless we ate almost all of Lowe’s salary. even then I doubt it
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
6:00 pm
Actually, all that about women out west was a lie. I have been asked not to encourage any more of my relatives or similar southern folk to move out west…..
Go west young man! (West Virginia, that is!)
semiballcoach
December 7th, 2009
6:02 pm
even if soriano and gonzo accept arbitration, bobby will wear them out all out by the all star break,,,trying to create a 5 inning game
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
6:02 pm
oh good lord, they are showing the beige wall-paper at the mlb set on mlb tv at the Indy Hot Stove
and Wayne you thought GA chicks were rough….
Indy… not too real pretty there……
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
6:04 pm
I spent a long year one night in Indiana
civilized white trash
December 7th, 2009
6:09 pm
wayne
wo wo wo i cant remember the last time idaho was in the paper for marrying mulitple girls…. sheep maybe but girls definately not i think you may thinkin of your neighbor to the south in arizona
Jeff R
December 7th, 2009
6:11 pm
Reports are that the Bravos would be willing to eat some of Lowe’s contract to move him. Might make Lowe attractive to teams like the Brewers. And, again, per reports, eating some of Lowe’s contract may make him attractive to some clubs who otherwise have an interest in signing Lackey, who’s going to demand a bigger payday than what Lowe gets.
Flatbill Kid
December 7th, 2009
6:11 pm
“I spent a long year one night in Indiana”
Funny stuff.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
6:12 pm
Dave- I am not sure what the value of Soriano “playing chicken” with the Braves and arbitration. What is there to gained for Soriano? — Daniel
You don’t see how this might benefit Soriano by getting teams to come forward with offers before this midnight deadline? In other words, if the agent isn’t certain about what offers he might get, then by threatening to accept arbitration, it could light a fire under any team (like the Yankees, for instance) that has interest in Soriano but had no sense of urgency to make him an offer right now if they knew he would decline arbitration and hit the free-agent market. This way, it creates uncertainty as to whether he might accept or decline arb.
Not saying that’s why he’s doing it, but it would make sense.
Cameron C
December 7th, 2009
6:13 pm
Bobby Cox is about to be on the MLB Network
monty
December 7th, 2009
6:16 pm
dogsbrekky
“Maddog had a 92-95mph heat at his peak.”
Not calling you a liar or anything, But I have watched almost ever game Maddux pitched for us and he never threw that hard, unless he did with the Cubs. However, I find it hard to believe that he would drop 5-7 mph on his heater wthout some type of injury which I don’t recall he ever had.. As a matter of fact I always found it a curious thing that Glavine threw harder than Greg. Hitting 90-91 on occassions. My recollection of Maddux was he threw 87-89 or even taking some off of that being the master craftsman that he was. Being a former pitcher myself in high school and Ameican Legion I pay particular attention to the details of pitching. Maddux pitched to contact getting many groundballs per game and struck out his share but he was never a power pitcher.
Medlen hits 92-93 on occassion but lives in the 90-91 range.
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
6:16 pm
Flatbill – my ex missus was from Chicago and I would drive NY – Chicooga regularly
one time we stayed in Indiana on the lake… near the end of the world
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
6:17 pm
monty – thought i wrote 92-93, not 95
dunno
NERDS!!! had a nice compact swing
December 7th, 2009
6:20 pm
It’s time to sign DOB to that long-term extension.
Speaking of extension, these Penelope Cruz pictures are making me tight in the pants.
TP
December 7th, 2009
6:22 pm
I have to know. I know who MFIKY is, but what does it stand for?
jerry
December 7th, 2009
6:24 pm
Always playing for Yankee scraps. Until MLB gets a salary cap, I can’t take anyone but the Yanks seriously.
N8
December 7th, 2009
6:25 pm
monty, first of all dogsbrekky said: “Maddog had a 92mph heater at his peak in Cys 92-95″
Second of all, later in his career is when he sat in the 87-89 range.
But if you guys recall, when he came in out of the pen in the SD series in 1998, he hit 93 and 94 a couple of times. Maddog stated numorous times that he believed in Leo’s philosophy of throwing at about 90 percent velocity with pin-point control, rather than slinging without knowing where it was going.
Make no mistake. I think Maddux, had he chosen to do so with how fluid his deliver was, and with the way he seemed to repeat it perfectly pitch after pitch, could have been a mid-90’s fastball guy.
monty
December 7th, 2009
6:26 pm
dogsbrekky
You’re right. You did say 92. But I still don’t recall him ever (*with any regularity) throw over 90. But it’s neither here or there.
Jeff R
December 7th, 2009
6:26 pm
I think Medlen’s future, if he remains a Brave, which I hope he does, is in the bullpen as either a setup man or closer. He’s got the stuff and grit to do either. If the Braves don’t deal him (and nothing is rumored, as far as I know), I hope he gets chances to setup and, perhaps, close some.
Steve McP
December 7th, 2009
6:27 pm
TP – Mother F***er I Kill You
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
6:27 pm
Jay Dub: No doubt in my mind, wants him to decline arb.
Steve McP
December 7th, 2009
6:28 pm
That was not a statement addressed to you it was the explanation of MFIKY
Curt
December 7th, 2009
6:28 pm
TP
It stands for Mother F***** I’ll Kill You.
Hence his other nickname, The Scowl!
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
6:29 pm
I am Australian and love my footy dearly, but the day those losers in Chicago GAVE US Maddux I actually wept with joy… best sporting day of my life
better than Nicklaus beating Aoki in 1982
better than Norman winning “The Open” in 1993
bETTER THAN Chelsea winning the Premier League 2 times in a row
ya da yada yada
TP
December 7th, 2009
6:33 pm
Steve – that is what I thought it might be. LOL @ the second post…
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
6:42 pm
Cox on Kenshin Kawakami: “I thought Kawakami had a great first year in the United States. I thought he was very dependable and competitive, and he beat some of the game’s best pitchers last year in pitching duels. That impressed me. He’s a tough kid. Certainly fits into our rotation if we trade somebody else, for sure.”
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
6:46 pm
Those pining for the Braves to pursue more speed this winter, this quote from Cox today might not bode well. He was asked if he’d like to find more speed for the top of the lineup or whether McLouth was the answer”
“Well, everybody would like more speed. We don’t have a lot of speed. But if we play good fundamentally and do things right, maybe we can make up for that.”
TheAntiMe
December 7th, 2009
6:50 pm
The free agent market was pretty tough for the players last year with many of them getting only a fraction of the money they were projected to get before the offseason last year. Not only that, many of the quality free agents such as Bobby Abreu had to wait until nearly spring training to find a team interested enough to sign them.
While I don’t think that would be a problem for Soriano, being as he is performing a very coveted task as a closing pitcher, the barren free agent market of last year may very well cause many free agents to consider accepting arbitration offers this offseason that they would have spit on in offseasons past.
RR
December 7th, 2009
6:50 pm
The agent for Rafael Soriano told ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick that his client is giving serious consideration and returning to Atlanta for a one-year deal.
“It’s going to go down to the wire,” said agent Peter Greenberg. “It’s definitely going to be a last-minute decision for us.”
Soriano’s agents, according ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick via Twitter “are scheduled to meet with Astros today.”
Houston will soon learn whether closer Jose Valverde will accept arbitration or not, a result which will likely impact their interest in Soriano.
Soriano earned $6.35 million this season and could make $8 million or more in 2010 as a salary arbitration-eligible player. If he decides to return to Atlanta, he might have to accept being a high-priced setup man since the Braves have signed Billy Wagner and Takashi Saito.
One high-ranking official told ESPN’s Buster Olney last week that “If Rafael Soriano turns down arbitration, he’s insane.”
If Soriano were to accept the offer, Buster writes in today’s blog that the Braves could still release Soriano during spring training.
Cameron C
December 7th, 2009
6:50 pm
Some one the guys on the MLB Network said Soriano might accept arb. and that should be a great surprise for the Braves, that the bullben would be outstanding with him at the back end with Wagner and Saito and the rest…
But really think about how many times a year a pitcher onl goes 5 or less. With a bullpen of Wagner, Saito, Soriano, Medlen & Moylan + a pitcher could go 4 or 5 innings and we could still be VERY competitive. We used to start cussing and saying its over when a pitcher went about 4 or 5. Now I know it kills payroll but you cant say it wouldnt make us even better.
RR
December 7th, 2009
6:51 pm
Soriano should consider even a two-year
“If Soriano takes arbitration, his agents must be finding very little interest in multi-year deals for the reliever. He could make $8-9 million on a one-year deal, but the Braves could also cut him in spring training to save money, and the security of a guaranteed two-year deal, even if it’s only for something like $6 million per year, is preferable.”
Flatbill Kid
December 7th, 2009
6:53 pm
dogsbrekky- still cracks me up thinking about that quote. I’m gonna use that again sometime soon if you dont mind.
And better than Norman in The Open??? as Ditka would say, C’mon, maaan
shmoe
December 7th, 2009
6:53 pm
Cameron C, why dont we just invite Gonzo to accept as well, so our starters only have to pitch 4 innings a game
RR
December 7th, 2009
6:54 pm
jcrasnick: One other thing: While the Braves front office is penciling in Soriano as a 6th inning guy, who knows for sure how Bobby Cox would use him?
more from ESPN
Lokks like he will accept arb and hope that Bobby uses him as a closer
Flatbill Kid
December 7th, 2009
6:55 pm
Cameron C.- “Now I know it kills payroll but you cant say it wouldnt make us even better.”
Not if it keeps us from getting a bat.
Eric from MO
December 7th, 2009
6:56 pm
dogsbrekkey” the day those losers in Chicago GAVE US Maddux I actually wept with joy”
They didnt give us Maddux. He was signed as a FA. That would be like saying the Brewers gave CC to the Yankees.
Cameron C
December 7th, 2009
7:00 pm
im not saying our starters can now only go 5 im saying, look at all the times it happens where starters tweak something, get sick, or plain out suck that day. With a stacked bullpen we wouldnt really have to worry that much. Gonzo has an agent that will get him what he needs more than likely. Soriano is rumored to maybe accept thats why I mention him. Everyone is complaining because he might accept, there IS a good side to him accepting. Even if it means hes great trade bait.
Overheard on the AJCBraves Blog
December 7th, 2009
7:00 pm
Hey, I heard that Soriano might actually accept the arbitration offer from the Braves. Why would he do that?
Trade Lowe and KJ for Pujols.
Fire DOB
No seriously, why would Soriano accept arbitration?
DOB do you think the Braves can trade for Adrian Gonzalez? We should trade KJ, Jurrjens, and Francoeur to get him, don’t you think that’s enough?
Wagner + Saito > Soriano + Gonzalez
Fire DOB
Eric from MO
December 7th, 2009
7:02 pm
RR you cant just cut someone because you dont like his contract. He will file a grievance and you will still be forced to pay it. He has to do something to get cut.
monty
December 7th, 2009
7:02 pm
dogsbrekky
THis is from Wiki:
Maddux relied on his command, composure, and guile to outwit hitters. Though his fastball touched 93 mph in his first few seasons, his velocity steadily declined throughout his career, and was never his principal focus as a pitcher. Maddux was also noted for the late movement on his pitches, which, combined with his peerless control, made him one of the most effective groundball pitchers in history.
I suppose we were both right. He probably did hit or “touch 93″ while with the Cubs, I just remember the guy who threw 87-89 and no one could square the barrell up on him.
TheAntiMe
December 7th, 2009
7:05 pm
I agree, Overheard, let’s trade Francoeur for Adrian Gonzalez. But only Fracoeur and none of the others on your list.
civilized white trash
December 7th, 2009
7:07 pm
the anti me
might as well ad kj he really dont do us no good right now
N8
December 7th, 2009
7:08 pm
MFIKY? That’s what Wren is going to privately say about Soriano if he accepts arbitration. Perhaps with both hands around Soriano’s neck (while making that crazy Hulk Hogan face of course).
Flatbill Kid
December 7th, 2009
7:10 pm
Since when did Wikipedia, the site you can post anything to, start getting used as a reference?
TheAntiMe
December 7th, 2009
7:11 pm
lol – I don’t disagree with you, cwt, however I was only being facetious being that Francouer was already traded to the Metskis this past season.
N8
December 7th, 2009
7:11 pm
“RR you cant just cut someone because you dont like his contract. He will file a grievance and you will still be forced to pay it. He has to do something to get cut.”
Can’t Wren just say at the grievance hearing that they never wanted him to accept arbitration? You say he has to “do something”. To which I respond…. he did. He messed up Frank’s plans.
N8
December 7th, 2009
7:14 pm
“Since when did Wikipedia, the site you can post anything to, start getting used as a reference?” Flatbill Kid
I just looked up your wikipedia page and it stated that you would be dissing wikipedia in lat 2009, and we are just to ignor you and continue considering wikipedia as the “bible” of all information. Especialy MLB insight.
My wikipedia page states that I can be an annoying smart-ass, and occasionally like to end my smart-ass remarks with a smiley face emoticon.
Rob - in pain (from SC)
December 7th, 2009
7:15 pm
Giving away draft picks is killing relievers on the FA market
N8
December 7th, 2009
7:16 pm
The second paragraph of my wikipedia pag stated that I occasionally lik to leav “e’s” off of th end of som words.
Far as I can tell, wikipedia is dead on accurat.
TheAntiMe
December 7th, 2009
7:18 pm
Hey, I’m getting better. I only mispell Francoeur 50% of the time now as opposed to 100% of the time last year. Darn you, Frenchy!
Jeff
December 7th, 2009
7:21 pm
According to this, Soriano accepted arb.: http://bravesologist.blogspot.com/2009/12/rafael-soriano-accepts-arbitration.html
I am not sure how accurate this is btw.
TheAntiMe
December 7th, 2009
7:23 pm
If that is accurate, Jeff, I would say that it looks like Frank has another pitcher to trade. Hey maybe we will get that right-handed slugger, after all.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
7:25 pm
If Soriano does accept arbitration, how about this:
Braves Get:
Adrian Gonzalez
Padres Get:
Derek Lowe
Rafael Soriano
Kelly Johnson
Then sign a guy like D-Ro or Cameron to patrol the OF, pick up a bench player or two, and call it an off-season.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
7:26 pm
Damn, I guess Soriano & his agent really are waiting until the last second to decide. I would think, at least, that if he does accept Atl. offer it would slow down the process for what the Braves do despite what Wren said. I just think $8m added to the payroll right now would have an affect on their plans.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
7:26 pm
Then Soriano would be happier setting up for Heath Bell, and would even get some save opps.
Couch Tater
December 7th, 2009
7:26 pm
My wikipedia page states that I can be an annoying smart-ass, and occasionally like to end my smart-ass remarks with a smiley face emoticon. N8
Yes, but now I understand…
http://www.esquire.com/features/empty-highway-1209
DHD
December 7th, 2009
7:26 pm
SD doesn’t want our over-priced junk for their stud. Let’s keep it real.
C's
December 7th, 2009
7:27 pm
That package would get Wren laughed off the phone.
Cameron C
December 7th, 2009
7:27 pm
I hope the Astros DONT sign Soriano. That means we would get thier 2nd round pick, they pick 8th next season.
Braves_Fan_RSD
December 7th, 2009
7:28 pm
Yeah Andy a team looking to cut its payroll to 40M is going to take on approx. 25M in salary, then trade its best player for 3 we just want gone. Good call!
Soriano's Agent
December 7th, 2009
7:28 pm
Pucker up Braves fans, I’m gonna blow some more smoke up your butts between now and midnight.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
7:29 pm
Andy K, just stop, it’s not funny. You know damn well using some common sense that SD is a rebuilding team & wouldn’t want Lowe/Soriano/KJ’s big contracts, so I hope for the sake of your IQ that you’re just kidding around here.
C's
December 7th, 2009
7:29 pm
Per Buster Olney – The Cardinals and Brad Penny have a letter of agreement, for a $7.5 million base and $1.5 in performances bonuses. Physical likely on Wed.
Goldenglove002
December 7th, 2009
7:29 pm
Andy K, they are trying to cut salary in San Diego, not add $30 million
N8
December 7th, 2009
7:29 pm
What part of salary dump/we want young CHEAP talent don’t some of you guys get.
Let me see if I have this logic correct Andy…
The Padres want to dump salary and restock their farm system, so they are willing to trade Gonzalez who is owed only 10 million dollars over the next 2 years.
Why would adding 3 years of Lowe at 45 million, 1 year of Soriano at around 8 million and Kelly Johnson who is likely to make about half (or slightly more than half) of what Adrian Gonzalez makes?
Oh. Wait. I’m sorry. You’re right. That makes perfect sense.
Never mind.
BravesFanChris25
December 7th, 2009
7:32 pm
Ken Rosenthal tweeted that Soriano is likely to take it down to the last minute. Not leaning one way or the other.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
7:32 pm
Hahaha my little experiment worked…throw one illogical thought out there and all the denizens jump on people like ravenous wolves…whole point of my experiment is to make a point to you guys to chill, because of the winter meetings, there’s tons of guys on here who don’t even give this blog a look during the regular season, so don’t freak out at them for their stupidity.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
7:33 pm
Andy K., San Diego can’t afford those guys. They will only take top shelf mlb ready prospects.
BravesFanChris25
December 7th, 2009
7:34 pm
Cardinals likely has Penny landed. Physical set for Tuesday. Set base of $7.5 Mill and another $1.5 in incentives.
rico43
December 7th, 2009
7:34 pm
I would LOVE it if Soriano accepted arb. Some of the Braves’ best baseball came when Bobby was flipping Gonzo and MFIKY, depending on the lefties/righties upcoming in the batting order. Soriano faces the righties, Wagner the lefties and Saito doesn’t get worn out pitching the seventh or eight 70 times. Pick up Cameron, trade Lowe for anything (not that important!) and wait for the Rockies to non-tender Garrett Atkins and let’s play ball.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
7:35 pm
Andy K. is a regular Carrot Top.
DHD
December 7th, 2009
7:40 pm
Nice cover-up, Andy.
DHD
December 7th, 2009
7:41 pm
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2009/12/orioles_stalking_soriano.html
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
7:41 pm
wasn’t a cover up, hopefully those who have read my posts over the years know i am more intelligent that that…
Rob - in pain (from SC)
December 7th, 2009
7:43 pm
San Diego is so cheap they are going to non tender Kevin Correia. They will only accept major league minimum contracts.
We will not get
Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrera
Please stop with the trade scenarios that make no sense
WinSomething
December 7th, 2009
7:46 pm
Im hearing that Laroche is close to signing with the Giants, pending physical? Any word on that?
BravesFanChris25
December 7th, 2009
7:46 pm
Come on Orioles please ~_~
Flatbill Kid
December 7th, 2009
7:47 pm
N8, I gave in and looked into Wiki too. I found my page and you are right. It was dead on. Went to your page and what do ya know. Dead on again. So I’m feeling google lucky and try MFIKY. Says the MFIKY and in some circles the Scowl will decline arb. It also had a picture of a Cobra by FW, a cigar by DOB, and a bearded lady with teeth standing beside Wayne in Utah.
I mean, I have to hand it to you. Wikipedia has it all. Im sold.
keylargo
December 7th, 2009
7:49 pm
I just thought about Brian Giles, who is a non tendered free agent from San Diego, and looked up his stats. He was hurt so much last year that his stats were basically meaningless, but look at his career numbers – 99 to 02 he averaged 37 HR’s . Then he goes 20, 23, 15, 14, 13, 12, 2. That is a decline almost in Andruw Jones’ range.
It was widely speculated that his brother Marcus was juicing it while a Brave, was Brian doing it as well?
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
7:52 pm
If Soriano signs with the Orioles, he’d cost them their #39 pick…it’s fate…
Eric from MO
December 7th, 2009
7:52 pm
Andy why would the Padres want Lowe and 15 mill contract and Soriano and his 8 mil when they are slashing their payroll. They would want propects, not high dollar players.
brian
December 7th, 2009
7:53 pm
I wonder if by playing fundamentally Cox means actually being able to bunt a runner over.
Efrim
December 7th, 2009
7:55 pm
Ken Rosenthal tweeted that Soriano is likely to take it down to the last minute. Not leaning one way or the other.
Being indecisive like this, that late in the game, would make me think he is going to end up declining it.
Heath
December 7th, 2009
7:58 pm
What happens if 1 teams signs both Soriano AND Gonzo? I know it’s unlikely, but how would the Braves be compensated?
BravesFanChris25
December 7th, 2009
7:59 pm
Hopefully Orioles sign him.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
7:59 pm
“Being indecisive like this, that late in the game, would make me think he is going to end up declining it.” – Efrim
I think thats what most of us think. He’s just trying to get his name mentioned more so he can get a little richer.
DHD
December 7th, 2009
8:00 pm
http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/12/wren_not_worried_about_soriano.html
keylargo
December 7th, 2009
8:00 pm
Brad Penny is a Cardinal
Mitchie-san
December 7th, 2009
8:01 pm
Bowman has a new blog up.
Salamander
December 7th, 2009
8:07 pm
Hahaha my little experiment worked…throw one illogical thought out there and all the denizens jump on people like ravenous wolves…whole point of my experiment is to make a point to you guys to chill, because of the winter meetings, there’s tons of guys on here who don’t even give this blog a look during the regular season, so don’t freak out at them for their stupidity.
I like to eat new-bloggerites for breakfast.
nom nom nom nommmMmmMnom…
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
8:11 pm
okay so my little niece just runs into the room, and tells me that the folks over at Sesame Street are changing the Cookie Monster to the Vegetable Monster….is this true? If so, I’m calling shenanigans, because that’s just lame.
DHD
December 7th, 2009
8:12 pm
My experiment worked to. You wouldn’t believe all the suckers who clicked on the links I gave and got a virus. Mahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
stamper
December 7th, 2009
8:13 pm
Cameron is a more realistic/attainable target for the OF in 2010. ..
I can see our opening day outfield looking like a McLouth, Cameron, Diaz outfield. When June comes around… it’s realistic for a McLouth/Diaz, Cameron, Heyward/Diaz outfield.
And for the sake of starting ridiculousness…
let’s explore the Braves’ predominantly left handed attack…and how it could hurt us.
The Braves seem to be operating on Stop Gaps once again. One in the Outfield and One in the Infield. Both right handed, preferably… but once again, it seems for the purposes of only fielding the 2010 team, apparently. What happens in 2011? It seems that be even more Left Handed top heavy in 2011 than we were in 2009. Heyward and Freeman are expected to become regulars.
What of Schafer? I think many expect he’ll be our opening day CF in 2011… That means our entire outfield (McLouth, Schafer, Heyward), our first baseman (freeman), our catcher (McCann), our 3rd baseman – for the most part (Chipper) bat left handed… our 2nd and SS are our only regular lineup righties… now, i know Chipper is a Switch Hitter, but still… he bats almost twice as often from the left side. It concerns me we’ll have too many left handed bats. There’s not enough balance.
I admit, it’s silly to already be worrying about 2011 when we haven’t even reached 2010 yet.
But it’s even sillier to me to NOT consider it. Look at what happened to the Phillies in the world series. Their overabundance of left handed bats were victimized by the predominantly Yankees left handed rotation. I just think it’s something we should be wary of.
of course, if the Braves deal Schafer this winter, or McLouth next winter… then who knows how things will shape up… but as it stands now, the braves in 2011 are gonna have oodles of lefties.
Ironically, we won’t a single lefty in our rotation for 2010, possibly 2011…and didn’t have one for 95% of 2009.
DHD
December 7th, 2009
8:14 pm
I would love to see Cameron Diaz in our outield.
DHD
December 7th, 2009
8:15 pm
Sorry guys…I am having typo issues. It’s coming from that Cameron Diaz virus
BossLady
December 7th, 2009
8:16 pm
I’m annoying everybody in the house with all this Braves talk and updates. We have friends and family for Monday Night Countdown/Football.
I keep chiming in with updates from DOB, Bobby Cox, Frank Wren, MFIKY and all. They look at me with this are you obsessed with them or something. As far as they are concerned it is over until next spring.
But, since they are at the mercy of my confines, food and spirits I will continue to torment. Come on Man…
stamper
December 7th, 2009
8:16 pm
I would love to have seen Cameron Diaz in our outfield like 10 years ago… but she’s too old these days.
rtrafford
December 7th, 2009
8:17 pm
Cameron Diaz virus? To cure press Alt-Ctrl-Penelope…
Braves_Fan_RSD
December 7th, 2009
8:17 pm
Stamper if 2/3 of Chipper’s at bats are LH then theoretically 2/3 of the time the Braves would have an advantage with a LH line up
Ward
December 7th, 2009
8:22 pm
Has Lowe for Bradley already been discussed?
Braves_Fan_RSD
December 7th, 2009
8:25 pm
Ward: I have read many places that a deal between the Rays and Cubs for Burrell and Bradley with the cubs eating some contract is “imminent”
Salamander
December 7th, 2009
8:25 pm
I would love to have seen Cameron Diaz in our outfield like 10 years ago… but she’s too old these days
Oh burn.
I guess Ms. Diaz is considered an old nag at this point. She probably needs some more plastic surg. to catch up with her younger peers. Learn from Demi Moore, Cameron, spare no expense to look like a makeup covered cadaver.
stamper
December 7th, 2009
8:27 pm
Braves_Fan_RSD I understand where you’re going with that… over a 162 game schedule – if most at bats are against righties, you’re technically right. BUT i’m also considering situational scenarios, late innings, playoff series, and that ilk.
It could easily become seriously problematic. Hence the growing importance left handed specialists play among team’s bullpens.
BossLady
December 7th, 2009
8:27 pm
My wish list and that is what most of these trade talks are on the blog anyway is that we could trade Vasquez for Utley, put Prado on third and don’t worry what we do with the current third baseman. Bobby did not seem all that concerned with the third baseman either.
DHD
December 7th, 2009
8:27 pm
But…can she hit? I don’t care what she looks like if she can take a low and outside slider DEEP.
Just say NO to Bradley. we don’t need that idiot here. I would rather start Schafer and have 6 starters.
SoWega Fanatic
December 7th, 2009
8:36 pm
Bradley? Oh, heck no! No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, etc.
FEAR
December 7th, 2009
8:37 pm
I’d would seriously rather have Cameron Diaz than bradley
lavell12
December 7th, 2009
8:37 pm
DOB
How long have u been working for the AJC?
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
8:41 pm
Seriously, why is everyone so down on Schafer? He is a top prospect who played a limited sample in the majors, the large majority of which was hurt. you can’t swing effectively if your wrist is messed up. Like Wren has said and I beleive, Schafer is still a big part of the Braves future plans. I beleive the Schafer we saw last Spring and the first week of the season is the real Schafer, and once healthy he’ll prove that.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
8:42 pm
Not to mention no one is going to want him in a trade coming off a season ending injury. Can you tell I like the kid?
stamper
December 7th, 2009
8:43 pm
according to Bowman the Braves would eat some of Lowe’s salary.
How much eating are we talking about?
TexasBrave
December 7th, 2009
8:43 pm
DOB – Not that I am enamored with Kelly J. but if the Braves are truly getting the sence that several clubs would like to obtain him, is there a possibility that the Braves tender him a contract and then look to trade him later for a need? Not that they would get much for him.
When is the non-tender deadline?
FEAR
December 7th, 2009
8:46 pm
hard to say how much the braves would eat of lowe’s salary. depends on what the return is
Ward
December 7th, 2009
8:46 pm
They should keep Schafer in the minors till June and then give him another shot if he’s producing like he did before the wrist problems
DHD
December 7th, 2009
8:46 pm
I’m not down on Schafer. I would be happy with an outfield of Schafer, McLouth and Heyward and sign Jermaine Dye for first. We could do that and trade Lowe for prospects, especially a third baseman to take over for Chipper later.
Schafer, cf
McLouth, lf
Chipper, 3b
Dye, 1b
McCann, c
Escobar, ss
Heyward, rf
Prado, 2b
Rock On......
December 7th, 2009
8:47 pm
“Cox said Prado will be in the lineup somewhere, wouldn’t say absolutely 2B, but said he’d be starting somewhere.”—DOB
Now just what the hell is that supposed to mean? Are we back on that subject again. Starting somewhere–like where Cox? 1st base? yeah there is a big upgrade we need. Throw in Uggla at 2nd or something and that should be the recipe–for disaster.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
8:47 pm
Here’s the Soriano story that I’m gonna be updating here within the next 3-1/2 hours (gotta love being tied to the laptop, unable to go get dinner while awaiting an agent’s decision). This is unedited version; story should be posted on website soon:
By David O’Brien
Indianapolis — The Braves and reliever Rafael Soriano’s agent played a potentially pricey game of chicken Monday.
But even if the pitcher surprised the Braves by accepting their arbitration offer before Monday’s midnight deadline, Braves general manager Frank Wren said it wouldn’t hinder the team’s ongoing roster moves and pursuit of offense.
This, despite the fact that Soriano has already been replaced as Braves closer by free agent Billy Wagner, and that Soriano could get between $6.5 million and $8 million through arbitration — money the Braves need for their pursuit of a power hitter.
“We feel protected either way,” said Wren, who on opening day of baseball’s annual Winter Meetings listed two possible outcomes to the matter: “A., they don’t accept [arbitration]. B., they accept and at some point we trade them.
“It’s not a big deal either way.”
By “they” he meant Soriano and Mike Gonzalez, who shared Braves closer duties in 2009 before becoming two of the three highest-ranked relievers on the free-agent market.
The Braves offered arbitration to Soriano and Gonzalez, so they could get two compensatory draft picks for each player if and when they signed with another team.
What the Braves hadn’t counted on was the possibility that either would actually accept arbitration. The Braves figured that each pitcher would get multi-year offers to close for other teams, and not accept non-guaranteed, one-year arbitration offers with the Braves.
Gonzalez, represented by famed agent Scott Boras, was still expected to decline arbitration before midnight. But Soriano’s agent, Peter Greenberg, said his client’s decision would come down to the wire and that he might take the Braves’ arb offer.
Not what the Braves wanted to hear. Not after last week, when they signed Wagner to close and veteran right-hander Takashi Saito to be his primary setup man and backup closer. In other words, the Braves already replaced Soriano and Gonzalez.
There’s not room in a projected $92 million-$95 million payroll to allocate $18 million for three relievers (they’re paying Wagner and Saito $9.95 million combined in 2010).
Still, the Braves insisted it wouldn’t be a payroll pickle if Soriano took the arb offer.
“He’d make the world’s greatest setup guy,” Cox said of Soriano, who had 27 saves and 102 strikeouts in 75-2/3 innings last season.
But he’d also be the world’s most expensive setup guy — Cox said Wagner would be the Braves’ closer in 2010, regardless of what happens with Soriano and anyone else.
Wren did not see Soriano or Gonzalez being amenable to non-closer jobs that would await should they return to the Braves. Which is why he insisted he wasn’t worried.
“I would anticipate that if they take arbitration, they’re not necessarily going to be happy with the roles they have when they come back,” Wren said. “Because they’re not going to be the same as when they left. And once the market develops for relievers, they’ll be asking us to try to [trade] them.”
If a free agent accepts arbitration, a team must have consent to trade him before June 15.
At the Winter Meetings hotel, there was speculation that Greenberg was only trying to stoke a slow-developing market and get offers for Soriano by suggested he’d take the Braves’ arb offer. In effect, letting any interested teams know they had best make offers by midnight, rather than wait a few weeks for the free-agent market to take shape.
The deep-pocketed New York Yankees were among teams reportedly interested in Soriano, and Greenberg met Monday with the Houston Astros officials.
Wren insisted that even if Soriano took the arbitration offer, his potential salary hanging over them wouldn’t hinder the Braves’ plans, which include trading a starting pitcher – they have six for five spots — and acquiring at least one proven run-producer for first base or the outfield. Wren figured the salary would likely be gone by opening day.
“We wouldn’t worry about that holding us back,” he said. “We’re going to put our club together. That’s the thing about having good players — when you have good players, you can trade them.”
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
8:53 pm
I’m hearing from a K.C. writer that Houston Nutt is interested in the KU football job. I like that.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
8:53 pm
I would dang sure love to see Cameron Diaz in left for the Braves! And he/she isn’t too old at all!
Wonder what is the latest news in the LaRoche camp???
Marc D
December 7th, 2009
8:54 pm
I don’t understand what all the doom and gloom is about. If Soriano accepts arbitration it seems like that would be great for us. We would get a draft piece instead of draft picks. Given that Wren will probably be inclined to make a push in Bobby’s last year, it seems like that perhaps would be the best outcome. I agree he would work well packaged with Lowe.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
8:56 pm
Here’s what Cox said when asked whether he’s confident that Jordan Schafer can come back and be the player they expected:
“Well, we played him with a broken hand. We didn’t really know it at the time, but it bothered him the entire time. As far as I know, he’s going to be fit and ready to go, and still one heck of a prospect.”
Robert(Chipper Is The Best)
December 7th, 2009
8:57 pm
I have to really wonder just how serious Soriano is about accepting arbitration or if it isn’t what I believe DOB said and a ploy to get teams to up the offers. I can see where Soriano would accpet arbitration but at the same time it makes more sense for him to decline it. Despite his injury history and inconsistency at times pitching is too much of a premium for a team not to take the risk. Besides, Wren has all but said he would trade him so that would mean Soriano couldn’t control where he went. I guess he could up until June 1st but after that the Braves could ship him anywhere they wanted.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
9:00 pm
Red Sox also said to be interested in Soriano. Greenberg told a Boston writer that they sent his medical records to Red Sox (but team said that’s not happened, so believe what you will….)
Dan
December 7th, 2009
9:02 pm
Soriano will accept arbitration and then use his power to refuse a trade until June 1, 2010 to screw the Braves offseason as revenge for all the negative stories the Braves put out about him to the press basically calling him a “whiner” and a “faker” in regards to his elbow injuries.
Randy S
December 7th, 2009
9:03 pm
Houston Nutt would be a fantastic hire for Kansas. I thought Arkansas was silly to get rid of him (though I understand there was a falling out of sorts) and that Ole Miss got the best coach they could have hoped for when they got him.
Rock On......
December 7th, 2009
9:06 pm
Bet Soriano is the first to blink…..
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
9:06 pm
No coffee provided in media workroom. I’m looking at $15-20 per day, easy, for Starbucks in lobby of this place.
balla1881
December 7th, 2009
9:07 pm
DOB can you threaten to write a terrible story about Soriano if he accepts arbitration? Maybe, if he was stupid enough to consider arb as an option you could sway his thinking with a simple tweet, or text, or blog post….
FEAR
December 7th, 2009
9:07 pm
no coffee? What a bunch of cheapskates.
18 Wheels of Love
December 7th, 2009
9:08 pm
No Java Monster’s in the hotel room bar?
Why would Houston Nutt want to leave Ole Miss?
Rock On......
December 7th, 2009
9:09 pm
DOB…It’s Indianapolis. I friend of mine told me the reason Indy never adopted Daylight Savings Time was that they couldn’t figure it out. Have fun dude.
FaninFaytown
December 7th, 2009
9:10 pm
As an arkansas razorback fan, Nutt’s interest in KU does not surprise me. however, I would almost bet money that hes using it as leverage to get more money as ole miss, just like he did over and over at arkansas. If not that, then he realizes that he is going to be watching the best class ever to go to that school leave this year and he will be left with his own recruits. Would be very typical HDN to bolt after that. However, would probably win a lot of games in that division. All i want is one more year to take it to him before he goes.
C's
December 7th, 2009
9:10 pm
It’d be cheaper to buy a coffee maker and some coffee and put it in the media room then buy from Starbucks all day.
Ward
December 7th, 2009
9:11 pm
Assuming Soriano gets a two year offer, what’s the wisdom on the $$…$10 or $12MM? If that’s it, I can see his tough decision. He might decide to roll the bones and take the 1 yr @ $7.5MM.
Salamander
December 7th, 2009
9:11 pm
Damn DOB, no smooth transition from drinking coffee to scotch on the rocks tonight huh?
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
9:12 pm
Any good rumors about hitters for the Braves?
DK
December 7th, 2009
9:14 pm
Dave, can’t find you on twitter. Please verify your address. thanks,
Burdell
December 7th, 2009
9:14 pm
DOB,
Many Starbucks stores offer cheap refills – $0.50 for a grande – same day. They won’t advertise, you need to ask.
Steve
December 7th, 2009
9:14 pm
DOB, As a life long Razorback fan you do not want Nutt as your coach. If he leaves OM he would have had 3 jobs in 4 years. Maybe the media will get off Petrino’s case about job hopping.
BeachBrave
December 7th, 2009
9:15 pm
DOB – supposedly the original source of the Nutt rumor is an Arkansas radio station, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, as mentioned above, his agent is notorious for leveraging open jobs to get better deals. That said, he would be a great hire if it’s true (although I think Gill would be a good hire also).
dogsbrekky
December 7th, 2009
9:16 pm
Dobi – Starfuc.s is what is wrong with America…. get a real coffee… just use some boiling water, coffee powder and a used sock >>>> Sfuc..rs
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
9:16 pm
Petrino deserves every bit of criticism he’s gotten.
Salamander
December 7th, 2009
9:19 pm
Many Starbucks stores offer cheap refills – $0.50 for a grande – same day. They won’t advertise, you need to ask.
Anyone else think Starbucks sells pretty awful coffee?
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll drink gas station coffee when I’m desperate, I’m just saying that the over-roasted Starbucks brand pales in comparison to other chain coffee places (San Francisco Coffee comes to mind), and of course, non-chain coffee houses with their wide selection of beans.
Hedley Lamarr
December 7th, 2009
9:20 pm
DOB,
I cover Ole Miss for a living. While there may be some smoke to the rumor of Nutt to Kansas, Nutt called the report “bull” and AD Pete Boone shot it down. In short, I wouldn’t get my hopes up.
Chad
December 7th, 2009
9:21 pm
I hope he does accept the arbitration. The bullpen wears down every year in the second half and it would take some pressure and wear and tear off of Moylan, Saito, and Wagner.
Bobby uses the bullpen every night so, in my mind, we need a deeper bullpen than rotation.
Also, every name mentioned above has had an injury within the last 2-3 years.
Irregardless of tonights outcome, I love the Wagner and Saito signings and can’t believe how cheap and quick they happened.
Bad Scooter
December 7th, 2009
9:23 pm
DOB, where do you rank Starbucks coffee in terms of major chain coffee places? I can’t stand the coffee there.
Burdell
December 7th, 2009
9:23 pm
Starbucks isn’t the best coffee (they over roast the beans), but it’s widely available. Before Starbucks, I had to either drive 20 minutes to get a cup of coffee or drink the office Folgers (which tastes like tar).
Deacons10
December 7th, 2009
9:24 pm
DOB stay away from Jim Grobe!!!
Think the Padres would take Lowe (with the Braves eating a good portion of the $$), Medlen and KJ for Gonzo? he would be a perfect fit with Atlanta
Couch Tater
December 7th, 2009
9:24 pm
Houston Nutt’s agent is Jimmy Sexton. He does this every year to get a raise for one of his clients.
N8
December 7th, 2009
9:25 pm
DOB, you could always get one of those thermos/backpacks and just make about 10 “2 cup” pots of coffee in your hotel room and fill er’ up! Of course your back might get a tad sweaty wearing that thing all day.
Not to mention you’d kind of look like a dork.
northbeach Scott
December 7th, 2009
9:27 pm
Salamander, I find Starbucks coffee almost undrinkable as the beans are burned. I prefer my coffee black and I cannot stomach the strong strange brew without cream. I used to be in the coffee business and their roasting techniques make it worse than french roast or even chicory, which are the worst I have tried. I am not willing to spend the money to drink Kona beans, Millstone or even Dunkin Doughnuts coffee is better.
Hedley Lamarr
December 7th, 2009
9:27 pm
Couch Tater,
Exactly.
Burdell
December 7th, 2009
9:29 pm
If Soriano accepts arbitration and refuses a trade (thereby loading up the bullpen), the Braves should bring back Chuck James. Dude was clutch through five.
Vol_In_Ohio
December 7th, 2009
9:29 pm
Just watching MNF.
Does anyone think Aaron Rodgers looks like a cross between John Smoltz and Steve Carrell?
Maybe not, just waiting to see the Soriano/Gonzo news.
njbraves
December 7th, 2009
9:29 pm
Deacons10…You’re kidding right?
GTI in Chicago
December 7th, 2009
9:30 pm
Come on, DOB, dodge the Starbucks. There’s gotta be a cheaper option that’s just as good. (Doesn’t there?)
Hedley Lamarr
December 7th, 2009
9:31 pm
The funny thing in all of this, however, is Sexton hasn’t been in contact with Kansas. But it’s well known that Self and Nutt are good buddies.
Chad
December 7th, 2009
9:31 pm
Must be nice to have an agent…and some rare talent.
McFann O
December 7th, 2009
9:32 pm
I liked the Q&A with Wagner–good stuff in there. This line really struck me funny (talking about working with the catcher):
You know, I’m pretty simple. We’re not trying to reinvent the wheel. It’s, hey, sit in an area and hopefully I’ll get somewhere near it.
You Distort/We Deride
December 7th, 2009
9:37 pm
If Soriano accepts arbitration, this may be the most loaded ML pitching town in the country. Too bad it’ll take more than our surplus pitchers to net a real superstar bat.
Bad Scooter
December 7th, 2009
9:39 pm
DOB, Rosenthal says Michael Tucker is there trying to revive his career. Have you seen him around?
Moe Berg
December 7th, 2009
9:39 pm
“Think the Padres would take Lowe (with the Braves eating a good portion of the $$), Medlen and KJ for Gonzo? he would be a perfect fit with Atlanta”–Deacons10
While the new Padres GM Jed Hoyer is certainly familiar with Lowe (he was an assistant to Theo Epstein at the Red Sox since 2002), I doubt he would want to make any risky/questionable moves in his first off-season as a GM. Everyone hopes and many expect Lowe to more than bounce back, but a new GM is hardly likely to stick his neck out on an aging pitcher with a big contract coming off a less than stellar season.
TheAntiMe
December 7th, 2009
9:42 pm
Wow, DOB, where are you holed-up in, Motel 6? Try Embassy Suites next time.
DHD
December 7th, 2009
9:46 pm
Embassy Suites will not leave the light on for you.
northbeach Scott
December 7th, 2009
9:49 pm
The Bates Inn may have some nice rooms. Proprieter Norman Bates will be right with you.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
9:50 pm
My thanks to PW, N8, Nolie for an “inspired” and civil conversation. I do wish that I understood the statistical basis for their opinions, while I do get their drift. (I read the Bill James book “The New Bill James Historical Abstract” (2001), and did not fully understand his statistical method, even when explained!)
I do know that the 1959 White Sox won the American League pennant (losing to the LA Dodgers in the WS) winning 94 games, with only 2 – count ‘em – players in double digit HR’s, Sherm Lollar with 22 and Al Smith with 17. They had a pitching staff with ERA’S that ranged between 2.24 and 3.75, and an infield to die for: Nellie Fox, Luis Aparicio, Billie Goodman, who combined for 9 home runs. But they had anecdotal speed, defense, and baseball savvy. The only key word in my post is “anecdotal”, as the highest BA on the team was .276 and the team average .222. I do not know how this team won 94 games, and all the statistians in the world can’t explain – except that I will credit, Nolie, N8, and PJ, should they wish to attempt a “statistical” explanation (beyond the obvious: they won more games, LOL!)
bob
December 7th, 2009
9:54 pm
Moe, you also forgot to mention SD is trying to cut salary down a great deal. I think last year they were in the 60m at one point and they wanted to get around the 40-45 mil or something along those lines. Lowe to the Padres is definitely not an option
Deacons10
December 7th, 2009
9:56 pm
njbraves – not kidding about Grobe, wishful thinking about Gonzo. I was against throwning the farm to get Peavy because of his injury history and that non-move worked out great.
serious question, would you trade Minor to get Gonzo? I think the Braves could lock him up long term, especially with Chipper about to retire. Having him, Big Mac, Esco, and McClouth (not to mention Heywood) to build an offense around would be amazing.
brian
December 7th, 2009
9:56 pm
nj Braves – jim Grobe’s name is mentioned yearly. Hopefully since he has turned down so many jobs and he is getting older, other schools will leave him at WFU.
I don’t get how you think it is a joke
glord1
December 7th, 2009
9:58 pm
Adrian Gonzalez will not be coming to Atlanta without either Hanson or Hayward included in a deal. So…. Adrian Gonzalez will not be coming to Atlanta.
Burdell
December 7th, 2009
9:58 pm
Nope. The Padres want young, cheap, controllable talent for Gonzo. Basically, the Braves would need to build a package around one of Heyward, Hanson, Escobar, or Jurrjens to make it fair.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
9:59 pm
P.W. Hjort – allright, I give up, and wanna know what is a WARP3 scale. (Forget my “aw shucks, I don’t understand statistical analysis”- Bill James taxed me, understand, I read the whole damn book in three settings!)
Nick in PA
December 7th, 2009
10:00 pm
Buy a coffee pot and carry it around with you, that’ll teach um!
Nick in PA
December 7th, 2009
10:01 pm
Remember what San Diego wanted for Peavy? They will want a lot more for Mr. Gonzalez.
Moe Berg
December 7th, 2009
10:02 pm
Very true, Bob. You’re right. No way the Padres will pick up Lowe.
Tyger
December 7th, 2009
10:03 pm
Remember its the Braves, what can go wrong will. Sign Soriano, Wagner probably wont pitch more than a 1/3 of the season. Remember Hampton and Hudson, big name expensive duds. Cover your bases, spend some money for Gods sake!
Moe Berg
December 7th, 2009
10:04 pm
DOB–check with ugaaccountant, but perhaps the coffee is tax deductible. Drink up and pass on the cost to the government. Then raid the mini-bar.
Heath
December 7th, 2009
10:04 pm
So, does anyone have an answer for this:
How would a team be compensated if the same team signs more than one of another team’s Type A free agents? Example: The same team signs Gonzo and Soriano…how would the Braves be compensated? One team can’t give two first-round picks?
Justafan
December 7th, 2009
10:05 pm
Blank Starbucks…just get me a Right handed LF with power, and a Ist baseman with power.
Ward
December 7th, 2009
10:06 pm
They would send their 1st and 2nd rounder…or their 2nd and 3rd rounders, depending on the draft position.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:06 pm
Sorry-arm-o 2 years ago had too many arm issues to chance a non-guaranteed contract. No way, Jose, does he do this. Just doesn’t. Turn the page!
Eric from MO
December 7th, 2009
10:06 pm
glord I think you could package a deal around Freeman, Schafer, and Medlen. Hanson is the best pitching prospect in baseball(if you still consider him a prospect) and Heyward is the best hitting prospect in baseball. No other team would be able to match that, so if that is what it would take then Adrian will not be traded. That said I dont think I would give up that much. Be the Tex trade all over again.
Eric from MO
December 7th, 2009
10:07 pm
Remember what San Diego wanted for Peavy? They will want a lot more for Mr. Gonzalez.
Doubt it. Peavy was an ace locked up for 5 years. AG is a FA in two.
P. W. Hjort
December 7th, 2009
10:10 pm
Bravesfan54,
They played 154 games. They managed to score 669 runs and allow 588. Their Pythagenpat record was 86-68. The other 6 games probably came from relief pitching. Their top 2 relievers, Turk Lown and Jerry Staley, combined to throw 209 and 2/3 innings with a 2.53 ERA.
The 1959 White Sox were a lot like the 2009 Braves. Their offense was slightly worse than league average, but they led the league in runs allowed/game by quite a bit. They used seven total starters, one for only two starts, one for only 8 starts, and their front 5. All of their front 5 were all above-average. The meaningful relief innings were pitched by the 2 relief aces, and the junk innings were pitched by their crappy pitchers, allowing them to over-achieve their Pythagorean expectation.
Moe Berg
December 7th, 2009
10:10 pm
While I don’t think any of our expensive contracts will go to San Diego, I think it is irrelevant to bring up what they wanted for Peavy. They have a new GM. Hoyer is not Tower.
N8
December 7th, 2009
10:11 pm
Heath, the free agents are “ranked”. So which ever team was the previous team for the higher ranked free agent, gets the first round pick, and on down the road.
I believe the Blue Jays only got a 3rd round pick for AJ Burnett from the Yankees last year, because the Yanks signed Tex and Sabathia (both ranked higher).
I don’t know who’s ranked higher between Gonzalez and Soriano, but if one team signed both, and didn’t sign a higher ranked free agent than them, we’d get that teams 1st and 2nd round pick (along with two sandwhich picks between the first and second round.
So in reality, both guys going to one team actually helps us, unless that team is on a crazy spending spree (see Yankees last winter).
What we need to worry about is Gonzo or Soriano signing with one of the teams that also goes after Bay, Lackey or Holliday.
SoWega Fanatic
December 7th, 2009
10:11 pm
Just curious, but how many of you guys have slept with Tiger Woods?
DHD
December 7th, 2009
10:13 pm
Cameron Diaz did
Heath
December 7th, 2009
10:14 pm
N8 -
Ahh…. I see what you mean. That sucks for the team losing the free agents.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:15 pm
DAP – I agree with you on FW’s signing of Wagner and Saito. While I would’ve salivated at another year of Gonzo and Soriano, their arb eligibility and expected price more than justified these 2 good moves.
Score another for Frank Wren.
Against the CW, I would have attempted to sign LaRoche. Don’t care what’s coming behind him, win next year, not 2011. Life’s a chance, go with what’s worked again and again.
Braveworld
December 7th, 2009
10:15 pm
Whats the NEWS beside the coffee and no food.
If Soriano accepts arbitration…just put his butt on the pine till he agrees to a trade.
N8
December 7th, 2009
10:15 pm
Idealy, Heath, we’d like Gonzo and Soriano to sign with seperate teams that finished in the bottom 16 teams in round one of the draft (anybody in the top 15 is “protected” and wouldn’t have to give up those picks).
For example. If the KC Royals signed Soriano (unlikely), they’d only have to give up their 2nd round pick, since they will pick in the top 16.
The Rays pick 17, the Mariners 18, the Tigers 19 (Braves are #20).
So in a perfect world one of those 3 teams right ahead of us signs those guys, and they would be their highest rated free agents signed.
Our #20 pick likely will go to Boston unless we sign a guy higher ranked than Wagner.
Tyger
December 7th, 2009
10:16 pm
Soriano accepts arbitration, its a no-brainer!
1. Get more money on a 1 yr. deal.
2. Dont play me, I extend my career by a year.
3. Trade me after June, I only stay there 3months
4. Next year I’m in same position with a fresh arm.
5. With Braves luck – 2-3 pitchers go down and they cant trade me.
jeffrey d
December 7th, 2009
10:18 pm
Soriano accepts arbitration, its a no-brainer!
How is that a no-brainer? You just mapped a 5-step plan, but if he declines arbitration, this happens:
1) He gets more money for a longer period of time.
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
10:20 pm
I kind of think the Rangers will be the team to get Lowe (if traded)..sinkerball pitcher is a need for that ballpark
Voice of Reason
December 7th, 2009
10:21 pm
Tyger – If pitchers go down for a long duration then it wouldnt matter as much because they could possibly collect insurance money for the player(s). His market will not be that great (more than likely) if he doesnt pitch a whole lot in 2010, at least not as good as it should be this year when he had a sun 2.00 ERA for most of the season.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:22 pm
DOB: I had Herzog’s baseball card with the Senators, circa 1958. BTW- I had a 1954 Satchell Paige St. Louis Browns card that didn’t survive my youth, along with my Earl “Torgy” Togesun card. My Boston Braves cards were limited to Eddie Matthews and Ebba St. Clare, I believe. I’m thinking maybe Ernie Johnson, too, but I’d have to go back to my 1977 Baseball Enclyclo for that one.
N8
December 7th, 2009
10:22 pm
Heath, it does suck. Especially if you’re a team like the Blue Jays and you have a Type A free agent like Burnett. You’re thinking to yourself as the Jays GM that you’ll get a draft pick of worth for him, but instead you get a 3rd round pick from the best team in baseball (after all the sandwhich picks – that pick ends up in the 100’s).
Had the Yankees only signed Burnett, the Jays get a pick in the top 32.
That is why I think those first round picks should carry over from year to year. If a team like the Yankees wants to go on a shopping splurge like last year, they shouldn’t have any first round picks for the next 3 years, regardless if they don’t sign free agents the next two years.
A team like the Blue Jays with Burnett last year, would still get the sandwhich pick the following draft, as to not have to wait for 3 years to get their 1st round pick.
The whole draft, the free agency compensation and the lack of ability for teams to trade draft picks in MLB is a joke, imo.
The Braves drafted and signed Minor. They should be able to trade him now if they wanted. But my understanding of the rule is that a draft pick can’t be traded for one calendar year. I’m guessing that that rule is in place so a team doesn’t leave “player to be named later” hanging on a trade, then draft a particular player, and trade that player to the other team. A safe-guard if you will against teams sidestepping the rule.
Like I said. A joke.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
10:23 pm
97 more minutes to wonder………….
Goldenglove002
December 7th, 2009
10:23 pm
Andrew in PA- If it weren’t for the fact that Texas likely can’t afford him I would agree completely. Problem is they are one of those teams that is reportedly having financial difficulties
Justafan
December 7th, 2009
10:24 pm
I believe Wren has a trade in mind just waiting for the chips to fall with 1st free agent pitcher. Then he will trade Lowe to the team that didn’t get FA=Angels,Tigers, NNY and Boston. Wren just acts to happy, somethings up.
Moe Berg
December 7th, 2009
10:24 pm
“I kind of think the Rangers will be the team to get Lowe (if traded)..sinkerball pitcher is a need for that ballpark”–Andrew in PA
Maybe, if they move Millwood’s $12M contract.
rupert
December 7th, 2009
10:25 pm
screw soriano and the horse he rode in on.
Justin
December 7th, 2009
10:25 pm
Tyger is Sorianos agent blowing some more smoke haha
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
10:26 pm
i thought we would have known by now what soriano is doing
N8
December 7th, 2009
10:28 pm
Here’s another “flip-side” to the silliness of the draft and compensation. The Cubs finished 83-78, and are the last “protected” pick in the first round next year at #16. The Braves finished 86-76, and have an unprotected pick at #20 that is currently going to the Red Sox for Wagner, unless Wren signs a higher ranked free agent than Wagner. More than likely, unlikely.
But as we know the Braves didn’t make the playoffs last year. But had the finished with 3 less wins, they not only would have been picking at #16, but wouldn’t be giving up that pick for Wagner.
Talk about a fine line.
Braveworld
December 7th, 2009
10:28 pm
Tyger, if he don’t pitch nobody would want him next year and if they do for not much $$$
unbelievable
December 7th, 2009
10:28 pm
Soriano accepts arbitration, its a no-brainer!
1. Get more money on a 1 yr. deal.
2. Dont play me, I extend my career by a year.
3. Trade me after June, I only stay there 3months
a. Im always injured and may get a big reduction next year
b. Im a middle reliever FA next offseason not a closer
jeffrey d
December 7th, 2009
10:28 pm
screw soriano and the horse he rode in on.
That would be Horacio Ramirez
Rick
December 7th, 2009
10:30 pm
Think the Padres would take Lowe (with the Braves eating a good portion of the $$), Medlen and KJ for Gonzo?
Is there some contest going on here that I’m not aware of to see who can come up with the stupidest trade suggestion while disguising it as a legit idea and not joke by the poster?
Deacons10
December 7th, 2009
10:31 pm
Rick yes you guessed it. Did you hear that the Padres wanted Norton too?
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:32 pm
Pete – Milton Bradley is never going to happen for the Braves. BOLA for bloggers who agree with you, they also have experienced encounters of the third kind and should be cherished.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:32 pm
Make that BOLO!
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
10:32 pm
Mariners are spending money they could want Lowe..Lowe for Jose Lopez would be a dream
Justin
December 7th, 2009
10:34 pm
Mr. DOB is awful quiet must be some sort of news coming pretty soon hopefully not only about Sori maybe a hitter as well.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:35 pm
Pete – your Vasquez for Vernon Wells comment should qualify you for a firing squad!
Daybed Wagmoe
December 7th, 2009
10:36 pm
I wonder if Soriano does accept arbitration and spends the year in Atlanta as the 6th inning guy, I’m not entirely buying the whole idea that his status a year from now will be as strictly a middle reliever. If he does wind up in Atlanta and is a middle reliever (which won’t happen anyway), when he hits free agency next year, his reputation is not going to be that he’s a guy who can do it all in the bullpen — he’s a reliever with experience closing (a la Takashi Saito this offseason, who last registered a save in April 2009), and he can pitch in the middle innings just the same.
ease19
December 7th, 2009
10:36 pm
I guess that I am in the minority here but Soriano accepting arbitration to me is not a bad thing. Either we have have an awesome bullpen next year (minus a bat) or we have an equally attractive trade piece for said bat. Same with Gonzo…Yes we would lose draft picks, but in a relievers market, would it be not be possible to get a greater return for “seasoned” veteran closers?
Gary O
December 7th, 2009
10:36 pm
Looks like Randy Wolf is close to signing with the Brewers according to mlbtr. (If that happens, then we know they are not in the market for Lowe). It will be interesting to see what Wolf’s salary price will be.
For the record, they say the Mets also have strong interest.
Mekons
December 7th, 2009
10:37 pm
The reason they have the no-trade thing on draft picks is so that rich teams can’t bribe a team drafting high with some washed up vet and a ton of cash to pay the draft bonus plus. The Yanks would seriously pay lousy teams many millions to steal their draft pick and monopolize the young talent. Can you imagine how you would feel if the Yanks gave us $20 million and some castoff like Melky for Jason Heyward? Your head would explode. That’s why there are those rules.
The whole idea of the draft is to make lousy teams competitive. Having sad sacks around, like the Phillies and Braves during the 30s, can destroy a franchise. The Kansas City A’s had to move to Oakland to get out of the trap of trading Roger Maris for washed up Don Larsen and Hank Bauer plus cash (there were other players involved, including Marvelous Marv Throneberry). Their fans were just fed up at sending young stars to the rich teams. That was before the draft, of course, but the concept is the same.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
10:38 pm
I wonder about a KJ/C.Jackson swap. I don’t know how Arz. values Jackson after last year, but I think I would do that deal if I could. Guy can play 1st, right?
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
10:38 pm
Hedley, I wanted Turner Gill or Nolan Cromwell to take the job, so if Nutt doesn’t, won’t be big letdown for me….
Salamander (I think you asked, or someone did), I’m only drinking Starbucks out of convenience, since it’s in the lobby and we’re all working in a hotel with temps in the 20s outside, so wandering around downtown looking for an alternate coffee spot would be kinda impractical…
But not nearly as impractical as dogsbrekky’s silly suggestion. Dude, working here. In a downtown hotel. Not practicing survival techniques in the outback.
unbelievable
December 7th, 2009
10:39 pm
“Mr. DOB is awful quiet must be some sort of news coming pretty soon”
of course news is coming
Braveworld
December 7th, 2009
10:39 pm
DOB may be in rest room after so much coffee…hope not!
Bob
December 7th, 2009
10:40 pm
Soriano accepts arbitration.
h ttp://bravesologist.blogspot.com/2009/12/rafael-soriano-accepts-arbitration.html
northbeach Scott
December 7th, 2009
10:41 pm
Mekons, so protect the teams from themselves, for they no not what they do? Sounds like Obama Ball.
Shawn G
December 7th, 2009
10:41 pm
Per Bill Shanks Twitter:
Cox: clubs knocking on the door for Kelly Johnson
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
10:42 pm
Hot stove mentioned today about Mariners shopping Jose Lopez. If Soriano stays and we trade Lowe for Lopez,we could still sign Cameron/Derosa/Dye,and have a great bullpen.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
10:42 pm
Bob, I think we all hope you’re joking.
Justin
December 7th, 2009
10:42 pm
Hey i said maybe something besides Soriano everyone and their mom knows news on Soriano is coming
Braves_Fan_RSD
December 7th, 2009
10:43 pm
Bob that was posted at 6:34 today with no other reporter saying anything I have to believe that one is false
Shawn G
December 7th, 2009
10:43 pm
p.s. Am I late with that? Probably. lol
o-me
December 7th, 2009
10:44 pm
Clubs knocking door for KJ===let him ride!!!!!!!!
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
10:44 pm
Bob
December 7th, 2009
10:40 pm
Soriano accepts arbitration.
h ttp://bravesologist.blogspot.com/2009/12/rafael-soriano-accepts-arbitration.html
#%#%!
i know what Wren said, and I believe he thinks it’ll go that way. but i’d rather things be simple for the Braves for ONCE dangit!
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
10:44 pm
Bob, that link has been floating around for a while, and it hardly seems factual to me, I mean, it’s a fan blog, how could they know already and not DOB, Bowman, or Shanks, all of whom are at the Meetings.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
10:44 pm
Braves are really pushing for a Lowe trade, will only revert to Vazquez if they exhaust all efforts to deal Lowe.
They’ve got some nibbles on both Kelly Johnson and Ryan Church, but more serious interest in KJ than Church.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:45 pm
Pete – here I agree with you. Cameron reminds me of Ron Gant (at least in the Phila 1993(?) series. Just fanned, and fanned. Damn, man, I can still feel the breeze. (You are not forgiven for your Milton Bradley view, however!)
Braves_Fan_RSD
December 7th, 2009
10:46 pm
The bravesologist (who I have never heard of and I don’t believe to be credible) link Bob posted is false. Soriano has NOT accepted arbitration as of yet.
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
10:46 pm
DOB, so the general consensus of the Braves brass is to trade Lowe then try and extend Javy’s contract? Because it would be upsetting to trade D-Lowe then lose out on Vazquez after this year.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
10:47 pm
Shawn G: Thanks for that. We posted it here and on our own Twitter feed right after Cox said it early this afternoon.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:47 pm
DOB- the Lowe position is one I have advocated. Find a team that needs pitching, and pitch Lowe. Offer salary contribs, if necessary, but get rid of this 45m albatross, yesterday. (Don’t need a sabremetrican for this view, do we?)
Randy S
December 7th, 2009
10:48 pm
Can someone tell me what exactly Milton Bradley did? I mean, this year? I know he has done a lot of terrible things, so I just kind of tune out when there is a story about him. What got him suspended for th rest of the season?
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
10:49 pm
Someone asked about the Twitter address. I had it wrong in the blog, had a period between ajc and braves. The correct address is simply @ajcbraves.
Bob
December 7th, 2009
10:50 pm
They’ve got some nibbles on both Kelly Johnson and Ryan Church, but more serious interest in KJ
How can this be? Johnson sucks according to the braintrust of this blog, and yet teams want to give up something for him?
Rob - in pain (from SC)
December 7th, 2009
10:51 pm
DOB
What are you hearing on the Lowe front.
AdirondackDave
December 7th, 2009
10:52 pm
Church is kind of the forgotten guy here. I’m a little surprised and glad to see he’s drawing some interest. If he can get us a solid prospect, sounds good to me.
Justin
December 7th, 2009
10:53 pm
unbelievable
December 7th, 2009
10:39 pm
“Mr. DOB is awful quiet must be some sort of news coming pretty soon”
of course news is coming
I was refering to something similar to the last 3 posts from DOB ya know something besides Soriano. Something that hasnt been talked about for days.
Shawn G
December 7th, 2009
10:53 pm
Anything to help man. Didn’t get time to look through all the pages.
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
10:54 pm
if Church can get us ANY prospect, that’d be a victory
Andy K.
December 7th, 2009
10:54 pm
I did some investigating and the so called “Bravesologist” Blog dude is a 21 year old from Queens, NY, so naturally Soriano’s agent has given him this piece of information first.
o-me
December 7th, 2009
10:54 pm
Cards close to deal with Penny.
Vazquez has said he want to stay with Braves..keep and give 2-3 more years.
Trade Church and Kelly
glord1
December 7th, 2009
10:54 pm
Eric from MO
December 7th, 2009
10:06 pm
glord I think you could package a deal around Freeman, Schafer, and Medlen. Hanson is the best pitching prospect in baseball(if you still consider him a prospect) and Heyward is the best hitting prospect in baseball.
Eric – I doubt Medlin, Schafer and Freeman are enough for Gonzalez. You are talking about three good prospects for an absolute stud that is cheap and under control for a few years. Gonzalez is worth far more than Tex was because of contract control and cost. Imagine what Gonzalez would put up for numbers out of his home ballpark. You can bet GMs all across baseball are having that thought in their heads.
I should have said no deal would happen without one of Hanson, Hayward, Escobar or Jurrjens involved with other prospects good as well.
Josh
December 7th, 2009
10:55 pm
What about Carlos Delgado at first for a year. let him try to prove himself on a one-year contract for next offseason
Randy S
December 7th, 2009
10:55 pm
Okay, I see what Bradley did now (I, how you say, googled it?). Pretty typical for him.
Bravesfan54
December 7th, 2009
10:56 pm
NCScoots – dang, I’ve agreed with you for so many of your posts, but not this one. The Braves are withing striking distance ritht now; and so I reject your 5-year plan which relies upon untested youth. While this doesn’t mean I am not impressed with our organizational talent (indeed I am!), I fell into a Shaffer trap last year, and, you can say “it was his bum wrist”, but I ain’t buying that. This guy owed us more truth than that. He acked like a rookie phenom whose star came down over our Bethlehem, only he didn’t turn out to be our center-fielder saviour at all. I don’t want to give him up, or any of our youth, for a rental. The middle ground does not require this.
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
10:57 pm
Mariners are making headlines..now maybe wanting Granderson
Steve
December 7th, 2009
10:58 pm
So it sounds like Kenshin will definitely be back next season? Isn’t his contract a little more attractive to shop around? Also, I don’t see Lowe having another year of 4.67 ERA, given how solid he was in the previous 4-5…what says you, Dave?
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:02 pm
May be a little late on this but it sounds to me that if Soriano accepts they plan to turn around and deal him as long as he consents.
chris
December 7th, 2009
11:03 pm
one hour to go…. tomorrow, we should see alot more action in the trade front. braves might even get involved in a deal. tuesday and early wednesday is when the winter meetings really pick up, while monday (the first day) and thursday is alot of talk and rumors.
chris
December 7th, 2009
11:05 pm
P’cola- i wouldnt expect it, but if soriano does accept soriano, the braves could trade him for an offensive piece somewhere, and wouldnt be terribly suprise if they traded him before the meetings was over. dont think it will happen, but trading lowe might happen before the week is over. and kelly johnson will be most likely be traded in the next few days.
cor
December 7th, 2009
11:05 pm
DOB,
During the summer, you recommended some of your fav BBQ joints on Memorial Drive or Moreland Ave….Can you please refresh my memory if you get a chance. I am visiting from Athens, GA. Re
freddy freeman
December 7th, 2009
11:06 pm
freddy
freeman
chris
December 7th, 2009
11:06 pm
whoops, i meant if soriano accepts arbtriation
freddy freeman
December 7th, 2009
11:06 pm
freddy
freeman
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:07 pm
My gut tells me he will accept and then be dealt to a team that needs a closer who was afraid to give up picks.
unbelievable
December 7th, 2009
11:09 pm
then they will have to give up a decent prospect
BravesFanChris25
December 7th, 2009
11:10 pm
Brewers on the verge of signing Wolf on 3 year deal.
Not bad pick up for them.
smittybat
December 7th, 2009
11:11 pm
cor, check out Daddy Dz, it’s on Memorial. Also Fox Bros is off of Moreland on Dekalb Ave just south of L5P
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
11:14 pm
I know a lot of folks on here are going to knock this point, but if I am the Braves, I give Freeman a shot this spring, and if he wins the job, give it to him. He and Heyward both seem to be close, and might provide each other with motivation, etc to get the job done.
I would have a backup, maybe somebody like Xavier Nady who could cover either first or the outfield. Swisher?
Swisher/Nady, McLouth, Heyward, Diaz, Freeman, Schafer and KJ/Church.
I think out of these 7 players, maybe we could find 5-6 to go north with.
(yes, I know, I am going to catch hell for this suggestion……)
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:15 pm
Wayne I like what your saying but I think your maybe a year early. One more year of seasoning would be good for Heyward, Freeman and Schaefer.
FaninFaytown
December 7th, 2009
11:16 pm
when they said it would go down to the last minute… i mean is that really necessary?
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
11:16 pm
Very decidedly left-handed, huh….
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:16 pm
FaninFaytown,
That’s why everyone in the know expects it to just be a ploy to garner FA offers. No other reason to let it go on so long.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
11:19 pm
P’cola
I don’t think so. Sometimes, we baby these guys too much. We are supposed to have batting coaches and veteran players on the big club that can help these guys along.
I think Heyward makes it out of the gate. Freeman might be a bit farther away, but I would give him every chance to make it.
I think Schafer was ready last year before he hurt his hand.
The Marlins and some other clubs do it all the time. What better manager in baseball than Bobby Cox to show these kids how to do it.
o-me
December 7th, 2009
11:20 pm
he may be working on deal right up till dead line.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:23 pm
Wayne I agree with Heyward and Schaefer being major league ready. I think Freeman needs another year. I thought Schaefer was ready last year and hoping he makes the team this year.
Zack Jones
December 7th, 2009
11:23 pm
DOB, Bobby Cox retires this year, who you pick to replace him?
o-me
December 7th, 2009
11:23 pm
Agree with you UTAH except the last sentence.
shmoe
December 7th, 2009
11:23 pm
I hope FW makes a substantial announcement along with the Soriano/Gonzo news…
Evan
December 7th, 2009
11:24 pm
Betancourt accepted arb, sounds like there’s a good shot Valverde will. Maybe this will encourage Soriano not to, as he will be one of few solid free agents out there. Here’s hopin’.
mav34
December 7th, 2009
11:24 pm
I think Baltimore is team that could have some interest in Derek Lowe. They have a good , but young staff. Maybe they would like a nice veteran to round out their rotation. They’ve been looking to spend money the last couple of years. It seems hard to get free agents to sign there, however. Do we match up with them for a trade? I know Luke Scott has been mentioned here before, but he just doesn’t impress me much, but it might work as a salary relief move. Do they have anyone else we might be interested in ?
stamper
December 7th, 2009
11:24 pm
As mentioned on Bowman’s blog, Wren is looking at 10-12 potential players who fit their needs (right handed). who do you think they might be? Thus far we’ve been mentioned with having alleged interest in the following:
Rivera, Cruz, Conor Jackson, Willingham, Cameron, Byrd, DeRosa, Dye and Uggla
That leaves 1 to 3 other players… and they would be?
Furthermore, do any of those 9 really seem to be the piece that’ll take us to the playoffs??
Mekons
December 7th, 2009
11:26 pm
If you were Soriano, wouldn’t you game the system? He has a chance to get a huge contract from someone terrified of trading actual prospects instead of draft picks. If I were him, this is exactly what I would do. Gonzo has not accepted arb yet either, as far as I can tell. If we have to take them, we can save miles on our starters and wear them out. They know that. This is just posing. They might be willing to take arb, but they want to be traded. The Braves can just yank their starter after five and let these guys pitch the middle innings. That will kill their FA ratings.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
11:26 pm
o-me
Don’t tell me you are one of the non-believers??? Bobby is probably one of the best motivational managers of all time.
There are a lot of folks who think he is too old fashioned. Those folks are going to be damned disappointed when his replacement comes along and is not half the manager he is.
I hope we get a great replacement, but I am not holding my breath.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:27 pm
It seems that a lot of people think we are going to sign one guy and he’ll be the savior. It seems to me that we will make two moves making us a playoff contender. One guy from the list of available guys wont do it but two might.
UNCBrave
December 7th, 2009
11:28 pm
Betancoury accepts arb from Rockies
Logan
December 7th, 2009
11:28 pm
Wayne
(yes, I know, I am going to catch hell for this suggestion……)
Let me be the first!
Son….You’ve got cabin fever!!!! Already!!!!!
Justin
December 7th, 2009
11:29 pm
Yeah why not throw Heyward and Freeman into the fire it worked pretty good for us with JoJo Reyes Kyle Davies and Schafer (granted he was hurt) oh yeah and Francouer who proved to be a fluke.
David..(Athens, AL)
December 7th, 2009
11:30 pm
30 minutes …..
Mekons
December 7th, 2009
11:32 pm
Wayne I agree with Heyward and Schaefer being major league ready. I think Freeman needs another year. I thought Schaefer was ready last year and hoping he makes the team this year.
Schafer had a broken wrist and refused to report it. He’s healthy now. Someone has to hit him in the head with a clue-bat. He has to be punished by spending time in the minors, but he’s ML ready, IMO. But I would force him to lose salary by being at AAA. This kid seems to be a slow learner.
However, he is our best CF since Andruw. I’d trade McLouth long before Jordan.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
11:32 pm
stamper
Could be some lefties in there. Swisher might be another. Gomes of the Reds? The list is long.
P’cola
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Freeman is a lock. BUT, if he comes to camp and punishes the ball, I see no reason to send him back to Mississippi or up to Gwinnett. Let the dude’s natural talent take him where it will. I have never believed that you ruin a guy by bringing him up early. Yeah, maybe RSF is not ready. Or Adam Milligan is not ready. But Freeman has played 2.5 years in the minors so far.
Let’s let the kids play ball!
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
11:33 pm
Hey atleast the Braves would know what teams are interested in Soriano. They could trade for him and not give up a first round pick and the could have him at a one year deal with the ability to sign im long term if they choose..If would have more value if we trade him to a team
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:34 pm
I can’t blame Schaefer for not speaking up. You finally make the club and get hurt 4 games later. I understand not wanting to go on the DL because you wanna show your tough and can play hurt. Is it always the right decision? No, but I understand his thought process.
brian
December 7th, 2009
11:35 pm
no word yet? they are really dragging their feet
o-me
December 7th, 2009
11:35 pm
Utah, don’t forget this is BC last year. He needs to go out a winner not a babysetter. I was told all my life don’t do that your gone be DAMN disappointed..somethings I lost my butt but I also hit the jack pot a couple of time. You got to make progress are get the hell out of the way (TED Turner) I believe. Bobby is and has been great, lets move on.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:36 pm
What scares me most about our emerging young talent is they are all LH bats. We’ll have Schaefer, Heyward, and Freeman to go along with McCann and McClouth.
Alex Remington
December 7th, 2009
11:36 pm
Justin, it goes without saying, but Jason Heyward is a far, far better prospect than Jo-Jo Reyes, Kyle Davies, Jeff Francoeur, and even Jordan Schafer. He was a better prep player, he was drafted higher, and none of the others even came close to doing what Heyward’s already done in the minors. I don’t think Jason should start the year with the team, but he’s already a better player than those four ever have been.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:36 pm
Thats a lot of LH bats
chris
December 7th, 2009
11:36 pm
dont worry brian, we’ll know in a half hour or so, and maybe sone other news…
Gary O
December 7th, 2009
11:37 pm
jcrasnick posted at 11:36 pm that it looks like Soriano will accept arbitration.
Nate from NCState
December 7th, 2009
11:37 pm
This may just be my ignorance but Gonzo hasn’t “officially” rejected arbitration yet either… right?
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
11:37 pm
Justin
There is absolutely no proof that bringing up a player early hurts them.
Mekons
Your going to punish the team (if Schafer is one of our best options to go north with the big club, and you hold him back, you are punishing the team and it’s fans.) just because Schafer did something that a boat load of players before him have done? Would Pete Rose have reported that he was hurt, or would he have played through it.
Let’s cut the kid a little slack.
Logan
thank you!
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:38 pm
Nate from NCState,
Boras is his agent. He will.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2009
11:38 pm
I’m hearing Soriano is going to take arbitration. Not official yet, but that’s what I’m hearing
Bobby's Cox
December 7th, 2009
11:38 pm
It would be funny if Soriano wanted to accept arb but his agent didn’t get the word in in-time because there is no coffee in Indy.
brian
December 7th, 2009
11:39 pm
WOW – you are kidding me
jeffrey d
December 7th, 2009
11:39 pm
How was Francoeur a fluke? He had 3 good years with the Braves, struggled for a year and a half, got run out of town, then resurged with the Mets.
That’s 3.5 good years, 1.5 sucky years. Fans only remember him for the horrible streak he went through at the end of his Atlanta career. But dude had a lot of potential and I think that trade will haunt us. In more ways than the fact that we traded a righty for ANOTHER lefty.
C's
December 7th, 2009
11:39 pm
Jerry Crasnick says that Soriano is accepting arby.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:40 pm
DOB
Is the feeling around the Braves that if Soriano does accept they will look to move him this offseason?
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:40 pm
Soriano, you’re a tard. Take the money and run.
convict
December 7th, 2009
11:40 pm
ESPN reporting Soriano has accepted arbitration.
shmoe
December 7th, 2009
11:40 pm
IKYMF!!
JReeves
December 7th, 2009
11:40 pm
per DOB’s twitter account, Soriano leaning towards accepting arb….ugh
Nate from NCState
December 7th, 2009
11:41 pm
I would have done the same thing if I was Wren, I think, but man, what a tough spot. I know they say they can trade him and all that, but now not only does a team have to take on his salary, but also give up players for him. What a shame.
Lost out on some good draft picks too.
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
11:41 pm
Well, I hope Wren’s comments from earlier if Rafy accepts won’t be a distraction for them. DOB, thanks for the not so good news, I guess.
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
11:41 pm
hell we could get luke scott for soriano
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:41 pm
P’cola Brave,
Frank Wren has flat out stated that if they are forced to arbitrate him, that they WILL deal him somewhere. The Braves have NO desire for him to be on the team now.
Gary O
December 7th, 2009
11:43 pm
Maybe Liberty will raise payroll to accomodate Soriano’s unplanned salary (if he takes arbitration and the braves are unable to trade him).
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:43 pm
I say move Soriano to Baltimore for Scott.
stamper
December 7th, 2009
11:43 pm
P’cola,
honestly, i dont believe one player will be our savior, nor do I think 2 players will be… not of those i mentioned, at least. none of them are really the answer. the braves need a game changer, and we’re unlikely going to find one this winter.
I like our rotation, i like our bullpen – on paper (we’ll have to see how our ending trio hold up over the course of the season). but i don’t like our lineup, and i don’t like our outfield… at least how it’s constructed right now. I don’t believe an outfield that includes any of the players i referenced above will do it. nor do i think a Type B free agent (including LaRoche) at first is enough either. We’d be a B- in the field, and a B- at the plate. if the braves are serious about contending, we need someone more offensively impacting than anyone we’ve been associated with thus far… that was what i was implying in my earlier post.
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:43 pm
I know Wren thinks he’ll trade Soriano if he has to, but MAN what a freaking pain the ass. Soriano, we dont want you. Go away.
o-me
December 7th, 2009
11:43 pm
Soriano will have to approve any trade till June 15th.
Gary O
December 7th, 2009
11:43 pm
Maybe Liberty will raise payroll to accomodate Soriano’s unplanned salary (if he takes arbitration and the braves are unable to trade him).
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
11:44 pm
P’cola
You are right about the left handed bats. Should we deal Heyward for Mike Stanton? Maybe McLouth and Adam Milligan?
Or, we can deal our immature SS for Matt Kemp! (BC was talking about Yunel on XM earlier today, stating that he wants recognition from his peers, but his actions on the field are keeping him from getting said recognition. Lauded his play on the field as being outstanding.)
Bobby's Cox
December 7th, 2009
11:44 pm
If he accepts it’s because he’s scared of all the other pitchers that are available like I posted last night.
Rosenthal or Gammons or someone also tweeted today that the Dodgers were going to trade Sherrill too. So on top of Hoffman, Gonzalez, Soriano, Rodney, Hawkins, Valverde, Kevin Gregg, and Lindstrom, there is also Sherrill.
Too many options, lower salary. Sucks.
Mike
December 7th, 2009
11:44 pm
According to Jerry Crasnick from ESPN, “As the deadline approaches, it appears that Rafael Soriano will accept salary arbitration and return to pitch for Atlanta in 2010. Soriano apparently felt more comfortable with a sure thing from Atlanta — one year and $6.5 to $8 million — than going out on the market ”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/news/story?id=4717538
wilymo
December 7th, 2009
11:44 pm
Raffy’s accepted arbitration…
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
11:45 pm
maybe we can get the yankees to take both lowe and sori
Bob
December 7th, 2009
11:45 pm
But, but….Soriano won’t take arbitration! Many here said so!
Bobby's Cox
December 7th, 2009
11:47 pm
What would really suck is if Gonzalez accepts arb too.
MIBravesFan
December 7th, 2009
11:47 pm
Well now they have two pitchers to trade that other teams will need.
nolie
December 7th, 2009
11:47 pm
Medlen is an incredibly valuable commodity. More valuable than Jurrjens for me, given his extra year of service PW
he’s valuable to the Braves but he’s too unproven to be more than a sweetener to other teams
Goldenglove002
December 7th, 2009
11:48 pm
I want to hear from Soriano why he chose this route. Seems quite interesting to me.
rupert
December 7th, 2009
11:48 pm
soriano=jackass
TnBrian
December 7th, 2009
11:48 pm
I realize this is just a wrinkle in Wren’s planes compared to this time a year ago, but damn, bad luck seems to follow this man. Fortunately, he seems to make his own good luck in the end.
bbspell22
December 7th, 2009
11:48 pm
Rosenthal is saying Soriano has accepted.
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:48 pm
Goldenglove002,
i guess he doesnt like money? only reason i can see.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:49 pm
Maybe we can trade Soriano to the Angels for Rivera. They need some relief help with Fuentes being unconsistent. I don’t know if Soriano is enough but worth a shot. To me Rivera is the biggest impact bat available that we can afford.
wilymo
December 7th, 2009
11:49 pm
Basically came down to the following factors:
1) The most interested teams with the cash were interested in him as a setup guy and the numbers being thrown out there still wouldn’t have matched the amount he’ll be able to make in arbitration (Yanks, Mets, Sox, etc.). Getting save opps over Wagner will be easier than say Papelbon or Rivera.
2) Type A status really hurt his market
3) Many of the teams with closer questions either don’t want to spend big $$ on a closer or really didn’t want to give up a draft pick
4) Every team basically views this year’s reliever class as 1a, 1b, 1c and will wait it out and see who comes the cheapest
5) It will make an arbitration offer next year less likely since he’ll be coming off an even higher salary
6) He’ll still have some control over where he can go since he’ll basically have a no-trade clause until June 15th.
7) Even if Atlanta releases him in Spring Training, he’ll get up to 45 days termination pay (approx $1.5-2 mil) and be free to sign without draft pick compensation.
Justin
December 7th, 2009
11:49 pm
Wayne there is also alot of proof that a 20 yr old 1st baseman and 21 year old rf works I mean look around its happens almost everyday. (Justin Upton last year) and Miguel Cabrera say 5 or 6 years ago. Yeah we hit the jackpot by having 2 players capable of doing so, I dont think so but stranger things have happened (Soriano accepting arb lol)
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
11:50 pm
theres 8mill that could have been derosa’s
chop33
December 7th, 2009
11:50 pm
SI_JonHeyman soriano accepts arbitration. Stays a brave. Team will be slightly surprised. After making $6,3 mil in ‘09, might top $7 mil.
F U soriano… F U.
Mekons
December 7th, 2009
11:50 pm
Wayne
Seriously, I love Schafer. But no, hiding a major injury is not cool. He couldn’t hit a pitch inside at all. He was hurting our team and lying. If he had put on a cast in April, he would have been back in July. It was a stupid decision. And he has already made a couple of those.
I think he can take the CF job, but the Braves have to be sure he will stop lying. Good lord, he would swing at beanballs.
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
11:51 pm
seriously though what if Gonzo did accept ..what in the world would happen?
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 2009
11:51 pm
Bobby’s C
With Frank Wren’s track record, if Gonzo accepted, I would still not be concerned. Not to worry folks. FW will do what is necessary.
Worst case scenario: Braves deal one or both of them (if they did both accept) for lower level prospects. We might lose a bit between the draft choice and what we could get in a quick trade, but not too much.
HEY, if they both accept arbitration, maybe my idea of giving FF a full shot to start would be more acceptable???
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:52 pm
Andrew in PA,
this blog would crash in armageddon mode.
Daybed Wagmoe
December 7th, 2009
11:52 pm
Now that Soriano’s accepted arbitration, I don’t see why he would reject a trade if it gives him the opportunity to close with a team that’s willing to pay his ~$7-8 million salary. It would seem to give him the ideal situation — a higher one-year salary than he would’ve commanded on the open market (or that’s what it sounds like), the chance to close full-time for a team, and the chance to hit the free agent market in one year and command a fat deal.
I don’t really see what he would gain by rejecting any trade that would give him a chance to close full-time…unless he just wants to collect a fat paycheck while doing the minimal amount of work.
stamper
December 7th, 2009
11:52 pm
I don’t believe that Soriano’s douchebaggery is going to affect how Wren goes forward.
wilymo
December 7th, 2009
11:52 pm
Its definitely a calculated risk and could go either way in terms of how it works out for him but in the end I think his agents got the feeling from every team out there that teams just aren’t going to be throwing around big money for relief pitchers this year.
Wide Right
December 7th, 2009
11:53 pm
Soriano accepts…I’m of the thinking this more problematic than Wren is letting on
jeffrey d
December 7th, 2009
11:53 pm
theres 8mill that could have been derosa’s
Really? I mean, I know this is a cruddy situation, but DeRosa?
smittybat
December 7th, 2009
11:53 pm
The Soriano situation isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It means if we have to trade him we can get somebody we want in return if there’s enough interest in him. I don’t see the Braves having any problems moving him and I think they’re going to play it out as if he’s going to be moved and go on with their existing plans.
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
11:53 pm
You guys ever heard of the saying “You can’t have too much pitching”…… it’s B.S.
chip off the ol block
December 7th, 2009
11:53 pm
looks like its official, Raffy is still a Brave… for now that is
ChurchMan
December 7th, 2009
11:53 pm
So the Yankee/Red Sox-esque teams want to spend huge dollars, give multiyear contracts … but these same big market team can’t get Soriano a 1 year deal??
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:53 pm
I think someone will step up and be interested in Soriano. Draft picks are more valuable these days. I’d want a decent player or prospect for him since this is negating our draft picks.
Andrew in PA
December 7th, 2009
11:54 pm
He Soriano agrees to be traded,could we move him as early as tomorrow?
J-MAN
December 7th, 2009
11:54 pm
Look if we can Trade Lowe’s contract we can keep Soriano. And I want players that want to be Braves so we need to be glad Soriano loves Atlanta
chris
December 7th, 2009
11:54 pm
well, i guess this means the braves gets to trade soriano to improve the offense with lowe…
rupert
December 7th, 2009
11:54 pm
imagine that, soriano hurting the braves in a crucial situation, figures
Goldenglove002
December 7th, 2009
11:54 pm
Who knows, if the Braves luck out this could be still be good for them. I think it’d be hard to question whether or not the Braves have the best pitching staff in baseball now. Deal Lowe and they have 15 million to spend. They could still get Cameron and an okay bat at 1B for that money. This isn’t the end of the world, just might require a slight change of plans.
One other thing though. KJ and Church are as good as nothing now. Any GM willing to give up anything would be making a mistake, as the Braves are pretty much forced to non-tender those two now.
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:55 pm
J-MAN,
if soriano loved atlanta he wouldnt be a d-bag and force us to pay him big bucks for one year of middle relief.
chris
December 7th, 2009
11:55 pm
andrew in pa- i think there is certainly a chance for him to get traded this week, especially while teams talked to soriano’s agent today…
o-me
December 7th, 2009
11:55 pm
Utah, no hard feelings
Bob
December 7th, 2009
11:55 pm
Soriano can’t be traded before June 2010 without his consent.
And don’t blame Soriano: blame Wren. He is the one who offered arbitration.
John Adcox
December 7th, 2009
11:56 pm
The good news is … we could sure win a lot of games 1-0. The bad news is … we may have to.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:56 pm
Soriano doesn’t love atlanta as much as he loves making 7mil+ next year.
J-MAN
December 7th, 2009
11:56 pm
Besides It could open something up like Soriano and Lowe for Prince Fielder
Mania
December 7th, 2009
11:57 pm
How can you blame Soriano? That’s a good chunk of guaranteed money. Yeah, I’m not excited about it but Wren gambled and lost on this one. If we can’t trade him, at least he’ll be there when Wagner’s arm falls off.
P'cola Brave
December 7th, 2009
11:57 pm
I would imagine that Soriano will be dealt by Christmas
John
December 7th, 2009
11:57 pm
This is actually probably going to be a blessing. Now MORE teams will be wanting Soriano since he wont cost them a draft pick! Just makes FW work a little bit more lol
sidslidkid
December 7th, 2009
11:57 pm
“…I want players that want to be Braves so we need to be glad Soriano loves Atlanta” – J-MAN
Soriano doesn’t want to be a Brave because he necessarily loves the team. He wants the most money he can get in 2010… and that’s with Atlanta (at least until we move him).
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:57 pm
J-MAN,
I’m so certain a team wants to take on THOSE salaries.
ChurchMan
December 7th, 2009
11:57 pm
“And don’t blame Soriano: blame Wren. He is the one who offered arbitration”
Bob … every team in this situation would have offered him arbitration
o-me
December 7th, 2009
11:58 pm
He has to consent to any trade before june 15.. If he said no…he would ride the pine till June 15.
JasonInFL
December 7th, 2009
11:58 pm
Of course it hurts and throws a wrinkle in the plans to upgrade the offense…regardless of what FW says, Soriano accepting is unexpected. Now, that doesn’t mean FW won’t come out ok in the end…like he did last year (mostly)
J-MAN
December 7th, 2009
11:58 pm
Hey you dont know that maybe he likes Atlanta and still wants to make 8 mil a year it could be both you know
John Adcox
December 7th, 2009
11:59 pm
I agree, Churchman. Even knowing what we know now, Wren made the right call, and now he’s got depth and options.
The_Superhoo
December 7th, 2009
11:59 pm
yeah but now Atlanta doesnt like him.
LOOGY
December 7th, 2009
11:59 pm
…This isn’t a bad thing.
Zack Jones
December 7th, 2009
11:59 pm
I don’t blame soriano. I still like him. Odds are someones gunna get hurt. No one is gunna trade for him. I already know it. So we’ll be lucky if we can get someone atleast like laroche.
rupert
December 7th, 2009
11:59 pm
I worry about his value knowing that he has to accept the trade (which he can be coerced into doing probably), but also that other teams know the braves will have to trade him. If I was Wren I would do some kind of about face and say they might just keep him etc. and wait a some time so that maybe he would have higher value. Right now I don’t see teams sending much in return when they know the gm has to trade the player to make payroll fit.
Deacons10
December 8th, 2009
12:00 am
I love having Soriano back. Wren could turn around and package Saito and KK for a bat perhaps??? Come up with a package to send them to LA in exchange for say Matt Kemp?? Dodgers need pitching and their front office is a train wreck.
Gone Viral
December 8th, 2009
12:00 am
The bad news is that we’re out a pair of top 50 picks in the draft.
The good news is that we’ll now get a player or two hand picked by the Braves who will be presumably closer to major league contribution. I’ll be very curious to see what KJ + Church + Soriano translates to be in terms of players/prospects.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:00 am
Soriano is as good as traded. No way he wants to come back and throw the 7th after being the closer. He has his money and won’t cost picks. The market will pick up a little bit depending on Wren’s price for him.
LOOGY
December 8th, 2009
12:00 am
Quit the Soriano hating. His highest ERA. with us was 3.00. Y’all are acting like Chris Reitsma accepted arbitration or something.
Andrew in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:00 am
Soriano to the Astros for Carlos Lee
richbrave
December 8th, 2009
12:00 am
Enter your comments here
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:00 am
Mekons
I wasn’t the smartest guy in the world when I was in my early 20’s. I choose to cut the kid some slack.
Justin
I could be dead wrong, and FF could stink it up in the spring, but I would just love to see him get a shot.
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:01 am
thanks alot soriano. you just made the team you stuck with worse. enjoy your money.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:01 am
Deacons10
Braves said earlier they aren’t moving KK.
LOOGY
December 8th, 2009
12:01 am
At worst we’ll get an impact player for him.
Gary O
December 8th, 2009
12:01 am
I just wonder if this will delay Wren’s hunting for a big bat…
chris
December 8th, 2009
12:01 am
geez, everybody! soriano WILL be traded. this gives the braves another trade piece! so stop whining that soriano just ate up $ 8 million of the payroll
Bob
December 8th, 2009
12:01 am
Bob … every team in this situation would have offered him arbitration
Then “every team” would have been at fault too.
Don’t offer arbitration if you don’t want the player to come back.
uga-brave
December 8th, 2009
12:02 am
so why is soriano to blame?
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:02 am
Maybe we can package Soriano and KJ in a package for someone this week. Angels, Orioles maybe, Boston, Texas. Who knows
chris
December 8th, 2009
12:02 am
soriano can be a piece of the braves getting a bat somewhere.
richbrave
December 8th, 2009
12:02 am
The witching hour is upon us and no word from GONZO’s camp. Itn’t that illegal?
Andrew in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:00 am
Soriano to the Astros for Carlos Lee
Is this true ANDREW?
David O'Brien
December 8th, 2009
12:02 am
Greenberg texted me confirmation. Yes, they accepted arb offer
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:02 am
LOOGY,
at worst we get NOTHING for him.
J-MAN
December 8th, 2009
12:02 am
Besides I’m not for giving that money to Marlon Byrd anyways? And I know Soriano brings the Heat and you have to admit right now we have the BEST BULLPIN IN THE MAJORS. To go along with One of the best Starting rotations. We need to shed Lowes contract for a some prospects and give Freddie Freeman a shot now, Show some BALLS and put the kids in now!!!!
MamaDawg
December 8th, 2009
12:02 am
Valverde turned down arbitration. Soriano should’ve followed him.
BravesFanChris25
December 8th, 2009
12:03 am
After cooling off, I’m willing to be open minded. I have faith in Wren and if Wren can get some offense plus keep Soriano without the payroll being and issue, then it’s a good thing.
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:03 am
every team in MLB KNOWS we don’t want Soriano. wth can we get for him now?
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 8th, 2009
12:03 am
finally someone wants to stay in atlanta and now we all dont want him what a crappy deal… what fan is going to want him pitching for us and how can u accept to play for a team that doesnt want u what an awful deal…
any word yet if he actually said yes?
chris
December 8th, 2009
12:03 am
thanks for the conformation DOB, i’m sure wren will state tonight or tomorrow that he plans to trade soriano.
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:03 am
o-me
No worries my friend!
Steve
December 8th, 2009
12:04 am
How is this not a bad?
Soriano can be traded after June without his permission, and can be traded before then with his permission.
He basically has a no-trade clause right now. And he can easily say “no thanks” on any trade.
No two ways about this or spin, it’s bad Soriano accepted.
nolie
December 8th, 2009
12:04 am
He could make $8-9 million on a one-year deal, but the Braves could also cut him in spring training to save money, RR
only if he had a bad spring trainging. they can not cut him for monetary reasons
JasonInFL
December 8th, 2009
12:04 am
Don’t care how FW is trying to spin it…he can’t be overly happy!
wjones
December 8th, 2009
12:04 am
Did Gonzo accept or decline?
o-me
December 8th, 2009
12:04 am
Wren said it would be ok. So lets wait and see what happens. Have a good night and Thanks DOB for info and hard work.
kyle
December 8th, 2009
12:04 am
has anyone thought that hey now they wont have another 1st round pick and sup pick to pay for during the draft… maybe they keep him and some of the unexpected money comes from the picks
sidslidkid
December 8th, 2009
12:04 am
The good news is we have the deepest pen and starting rotation in baseball history.
MamaDawg
December 8th, 2009
12:04 am
So Gonzo definitely has declined arb??
MamaDawg
December 8th, 2009
12:05 am
So has Gonzo definitely declined arb??
Mike
December 8th, 2009
12:05 am
I haven’t heard anything about Gonzo?
LOOGY
December 8th, 2009
12:05 am
Superhoo…Ok so we’d play like 5 inning games. Moylan, Soriano, Saito, Wagner. Not such a bad thing. And with our starters, I highly doubt we’re going to need a huge offensive output.
Gone Viral
December 8th, 2009
12:06 am
“every team in MLB KNOWS we don’t want Soriano. wth can we get for him now?”
Hopefully another Johnny Estrada.
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:06 am
Eric In Albany N.Y.,
this smacks of a middle finger to the braves to me. not real desire to stay here. at most he’ll be here one more year (and god i hope we get rid of him before then)
TG from CA
December 8th, 2009
12:07 am
Best Bullpen in Baseball. Best starting staff in baseball. I say we go with what we got and let the kids play. Start Schafer, Heyward and Freeman and let’s see what happens!! I think it would be a fun team to watch
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 8th, 2009
12:07 am
wren should man up open the wallet and go for the win for bobby keep him keep lowe go for some free agents and win the east for bobby 1 more time
who am i kidding that isnt going to happen i dont want it to happen and its totally wrong way to play gm… F-reffy
brian
December 8th, 2009
12:07 am
I bet there are a lot of teams knocking on the Braves door now for Soriano expecting the Braves to give him away. I hope Liberty allows FW to hold firm and as the closer market/reliever market develops we can deal away Soriano for something of value.
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:07 am
LOOGY,
good thing too, cus until we get some bats we’re not gonna get any support. that worked out well last season eh?
I liked soriano so much until now. now i just want him to go the heck away
Justin
December 8th, 2009
12:07 am
Wayne dont get me wrong I hope the kid knocks the cover off the ball but i still think it would be a mistake to promote him just for that he struggled in AA and the AFL he isnt ready even if he hits .400 with 5 homers in spring.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:08 am
Lowe, Soriano, and KJ for Brandon Wood, Juan Rivera and cash considerations
pryguy
December 8th, 2009
12:08 am
Just because this seemed as though it wasn’t in the plans, this could definitely give the Braves another piece to a trade. If not, Raffy can still pitch very effectively….regardless of the inning. Tons of money for a bullpen, yet a very deep, talented group as it currently stands. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Raffy accept to be traded however and give the Braves another valuable piece to a trade.
N8
December 8th, 2009
12:09 am
“soriano can be a piece of the braves getting a bat somewhere.” Chris
Provided he accepts a trade to be somebody’s closer, you’re right. Perhaps Lowe wasn’t enough to convince somebody to give us a bat. But perhaps dealing Lowe and Soriano to one team gets us something.
But there goes the draft picks. Now if Gonzalez is the 2nd or 3rd highest rated free agent signed by a team, we’ve gone from possibly having 3 1st round picks (and 2 sandwich picks), to ZERO first round picks.
Unreal. I’d call Soriano a douche. But it’s his right.
Here’s a thought? Trade both Lowe and Vazquez and make Soriano the 5th starter. Wasn’t he starter before the Mariners converted him to being a reliever?
If his elbow goes out, we’ve still got Medlen waiting in the wings.
Not sure how his arm would hold up. But he’s obviously got the stuff, and 8 million for another starter is better than 8 million for a 6th or 7th inning guy.
Likely to happen? Nope. Crazy suggestion? Perhaps. But it’s a suggestion.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
December 8th, 2009
12:09 am
i honestly dont get why he did it? i just dont get it? someone explain it!
Andy K.
December 8th, 2009
12:09 am
I think Soriano mis-read DOB’s Blog title..It’s Firing up the Hot Stove, not F’ing up the Hot Stove.
Mike
December 8th, 2009
12:09 am
Mike Gonzalez has turned down arbitration to explore the market, according to Yahoo’s Tim Brown.
brian
December 8th, 2009
12:10 am
we needed another top reliever last year. Right now we have one. If it stays the same it is an expensive bullpen but one that has enough options no one should get burned out.
It will be interesting to see if this will get the Braves to look to move Vazquez if they have to for Matt Gamel (to play 1B leaving the OF as is). Or if the Brewers will take Lowe plus Adam Milligan for Gamel
richbrave
December 8th, 2009
12:10 am
Hey SuperHoo:
Congrats on inking MIKE LONDON. SPIDER alum.
Gary O
December 8th, 2009
12:10 am
Guys, lets not make it personal. In my opinion, Soriano’s decision was a business decision.
I am confident that Wren will find a way to trade him and still get a RH bat.
Although you wonder if Wren should have offered LaRoche arbitration instead of Soriano. Sure, he wouldnt have received any draft picks, but at least 1B would have been taken care of, with Soriano’s money.
Justin
December 8th, 2009
12:10 am
Also remember folks if all else fails they can release Soriano in spring training and correct me if Im wrong DOB it will not cost the braves much money at all.
Andrew in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:10 am
GONZO TURNS IT DOWN!
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:10 am
Braves Fans
Here is the deal. Frank made a choice to offer arbitration to Gonzo and Soriano, assuming that the market for closers would be strong enough for both to get decent offeres. He didn’t offer to Adam due to not wanting to hamstring his trade/FA efforts.
He made choices.
Raffy made a choice. The market for closers is not developing like some thought it might.
Kinda like some of those OF’ers last winter who ended up taking lesser contracts than they could have gotten had they taken arbitration.
Nobody is to blame. Folks just making choices. It is not the end of the world, nor does it make any sort of statement as to how successful the Braves will be next year. It just gives FW a few more options.
Let’s not be too hard on MFIKY, as he might end up being our co-closer next August. Stranger things have happened.
I also don’t think you will see Soriano dealt before his arbitration hearing and award is granted. So we might have to exercise some patience on the old blog……..
BravesFanChris25
December 8th, 2009
12:10 am
At least we get picks for Gonzo when he signs elsewhere.
Goldenglove002
December 8th, 2009
12:11 am
Gonzalez has official turned down arb. No armagedon tonight.
Deacons10
December 8th, 2009
12:11 am
P’Cola – i know what they said, but that was assuming that Soriano would turn down arbitration. the landscape has now changed. In Wagner and Saito, you have two old pitchers, one who has had a major arm surgery and one that could get “old” anyday. I really think Soriano did the Braves a huge favor tonight. Wren got lucky on this one – he gets a lot of credit for his moves but he has been fortunate that some of the moves he wanted to make blew up in his face i.e. – Furcal, not trading the entire team for Peavy last year.
The Braves have the best pitching staff right now in all of Baseball. If all they do is re-sign LaRoache it may be enough to win it.
DeRosa is not the answer. he is an older more expensive Omar Infante.
TheManMike
December 8th, 2009
12:11 am
Gonzo declines…nice guy.
richbrave
December 8th, 2009
12:11 am
Andy K.
December 8th, 2009
12:09 am
I think Soriano mis-read DOB’s Blog title..It’s Firing up the Hot Stove, not F’ing up the Hot Stove.
LOL fall down funny!!!!
JReeves
December 8th, 2009
12:11 am
Just wanted to ease a bit of the arbitration decision tension, to state that even though Soriano accepted, and may get around 8 Mil (Which Atlanta feels if a high projection) then we still would be fine, and have the money to upgrade our offense.
In this theoretic roster (just made for payroll projections), we were able to sign Sheff as the veteran bench bat that Bobby likes to have, as well as pencil Soriano in at a high projection of 7.75 Mil. What it does say is that it will be an absolute MUST that Derek Lowe is traded. Even if we simply get a stick of gum in return, we would NEED the payroll space/flexibility. With that happening, we are still under $100 Mil:
1) Vazquez (R) $11.5 Mil
2) JJ (R) $500,000
3) Hudson (R) $9 Mil
4) T. Hanson (R) $400,000
5) Kawakami (R) $6.667 Mil
————- $28.067 Mil
Starters:
Chipper (S) – 3B $13 Mil
6) McLouth (L) – RF $4.5 Mil
7) Prado (R) – 2B $425,000
9) B. McCann (L) – C $5.5 Mil
10) M Cameron (R) – CF $8 Mil
11) X. Nady (R) – 1B $8 Mil
12) Escobar (R) – SS $450,000
13) Diaz (R) – LF $1.75 Mil – ARB Raise***
————– $41.625 Mil
Bench:
14) B. Conrad (2B) $400,000
15) M. Derosa (1B/2B/3B/OF) $4.5 Mil
16) G. Sheffield (1B/OF/PH) $1 Mil
17) Infante (SS/3B/OF) $2.225 Mil
18) Ross (C) $1.6 Mil
————- $9.725 Mil
Bullpen:
19) B. Wagner (Closer) (L) 6.75 Mil (Not 7 Mil as reported initially)
20) T. Saito (Setup) (R) 3.2 Mil
21) Moylan (Setup) (R) $825,000 – ARB Raise***
22) R. Soriano (Setup) (R) $7.75 Mil – ARB Raise***
23) B. Logan (L) $500,000 – ARB Raise***
24) O’Flaherty (L) $425,000
25) K. Medlen (Long Relief) (R) $400,000
————- $19.85 Mil
—-TOTAL— $99.267
K. Johnson – Traded/Non tender
R. Church – Traded/Non tender
B. Carlyle – Signed in Japan
J. Heyward – AAA – Treated Like Hanson, Mid/Late Season Call Up
J. Schafer – AAA – Needs AB’s after surgery, will start in AAA
S. Proctor – AAA – Rehabbing until midseason, then takes Logan’s spot most likely
M. Gonzalez – FA – Allowed to Leave – Too Expensive – Draft Picks
Norton – FA – Banned from the Atlanta Metro Area
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:11 am
richbrave,
thanks alot! those of us with any sense are THRILLED with the signing of London. I’m just anxious to see who he grabs as assistants, particularly for OC.
Sorry we had to yank him away, but alot of us expected him to be our unofficial coach-in-waiting for a couple years now.
Nick in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:11 am
why dont we just wait and see what happens?
idfan
December 8th, 2009
12:12 am
what about gonzo did he accept or decline anybody know?
Macon Braves (RIP)
December 8th, 2009
12:12 am
At worst, the Braves have the best bullpen in all of baseball. This does, however, make it absolutely necessary to move Lowe’s contract. Hopefully Wren can still afford to bring in Cameron and maybe resign Laroche if Lowe’s contract is moved. Stick those two in the lineup (and just as importantly on defense behind what’s looking like a GREAT pitching staff) and I think you’ve definetly got a team that can win the division.
rupert
December 8th, 2009
12:12 am
bless gonzo
NS
December 8th, 2009
12:12 am
Gonzo declines idfan
N Nine
December 8th, 2009
12:12 am
I bet Wren will shy away from freely offering arbitration in the future. It happened to JS and he was more cautious after Maddux pulled the same trick. Lowe and Sori for a hitter? Can we even trade the guy?
John
December 8th, 2009
12:12 am
I have a weird feeling that Wren is fielding calls right now about Soriano. His value has risen significantly now that he is locked up for only a year and wont cost a draft pick. I think Wren had a backup plan in mind if this happened.
Sorianno KNOWS he wont close….so he knows he WILL be traded at some point. Of all of the free agent 1Bs out there i dont want any of them. We can now deal Lowe and Soriano for a good first baseman.
Zack Jones
December 8th, 2009
12:13 am
N8, no way in hell soriano converts to a starter. That’s stupid.
LOOGY
December 8th, 2009
12:13 am
Superhoo
yeah it did after the allstar break when we had one of the best records in baseball, when we had McLouth and Prado finally playing everyday. What put our offense in such a huge whole was a down year from Chipper, Mac’s eye probs, Using Kelly Johnson for half the year, and playing Jordan Schafer w/ a broken hand. We we’re pretty good offensively after we made those changes. Still need to deal Lowe for RH 1B though or deal him for prospects and resign LaRoche. I think that won’t happen though, b/c from Cox’s comments today it seems they are pushing to have Jason Heyward start the year in Atlanta.
N8
December 8th, 2009
12:13 am
OK. Never mind. I thought he was starting for the Mariners when he got hit on the head. He hasn’t started a game since 2002. But he did start 80 games in the minors.
Maybe put Medlen in the 5th starter spot (trading both Lowe and Vazquez), and make Soriano the long-relief guy, and when he hasn’t gotten any work in, use him an inning here and an inning there.
pryguy
December 8th, 2009
12:14 am
Feels good to refresh the blog to so many comments tonight…..Comments are pretty similar to a Braves loss during the season because of a blown save!
Greg O
December 8th, 2009
12:14 am
This might not be all that bad. Braves keep starters fresh by shortening games to five or six innings per start until June 15. They go with internal options (Schafer, Heyward, Church) for the remaining corner outfield spot, maybe go with some combination of Prado/Barbaro at 1B and Prado/Kelly/Infante at 2B, throw it all up against the wall and see what sticks for two and a half months. If it’s working, keep it in place. If not, trade Soriano for max value on June 15 (teams might pay more for him on June 15 than a month and a half later at the deadline). The Braves wouldn’t have addressed the right-handed power deficiencies, but see if things turn around by June 15, and if not, they’d potentially have a nice trading chip in place. But what I’m seeing is a great rotation and a great bullpen that will keep the Braves in games day in and day out. There are teams that would love to have such a problem. And in the end, the Braves will still gain one more draft pick (a sandwich pick) than they would’ve gotten had they stood pat, assuming Gonzo is gone-zo. Give up a #1 for Wagner (sandwich pick is thrown in by MLB at no loss to Braves), get a #1 (or 2 or 3 depending on the team Gonzo signs with and how many Type A’s that team signs) for Gonzo and also gain the sandwich pick MLB throws in. In the end, the Braves have an unbelievable rotation, an unbelievable bullpen, an extra draft pick, and the only negative is limited flexibility.
Andrew in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:14 am
Soriano was really good last year,some team will surely want him on a 1 year deal..boston,new york?
N8
December 8th, 2009
12:14 am
Zach Jones, you mean stupid like when John Smoltz did it. Or stupid when Derek Lowe did it?
But thanks for your input.
Bobby's Cox
December 8th, 2009
12:14 am
Provided he accepts a trade to be somebody’s closer, you’re right. Perhaps Lowe wasn’t enough to convince somebody to give us a bat. But perhaps dealing Lowe and Soriano to one team gets us something.
That’s about $23 million your asking a team to take on N8. Not likely. They’ll be separate trades. If we get prospects for both and KJ I’m happy. They’ll be better, and there will be more quantitatively, than the draft picks anyway.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:15 am
Now that soriano has accepted we can move on to acquiring bats like Juan Rivera
brian
December 8th, 2009
12:16 am
trade options for Soriano – as a closer to the Angels, Tigers, Nationals, Orioles, Cards, Astros, Rangers, ???
as a set up man to the Red sox or Yankees
Nick in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:16 am
the stupid comment store called…..numerous times after reading some of these posts
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:17 am
Soriano, Lowe, KJ, Cash for Wood, Rivera and mid level prospect.
Goldenglove002
December 8th, 2009
12:18 am
Jreeves, problem with your projections is that you are giving Nady WAY too much money, and Cameron more than neccesary also.
And Derosa’s agent would laugh and hang up quite quickly if that is what the Braves offered for him. You have the right idea in that the Braves can still fill out the roster if Derek Lowe is traded, but your salary figures are just a little unrealistic
N8
December 8th, 2009
12:18 am
Maybe Bobby’s. But what if a team like Texas was willing to trade Josh Hamilton for both of them to shore up their rotation and bullpen? Lowe is a perfect fit in that park, being a sinkerball pitcher.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:19 am
I think Nady could be had around 5-6 mil.
Trey06
December 8th, 2009
12:20 am
“Quit the Soriano hating. His highest ERA. with us was 3.00. Y’all are acting like Chris Reitsma accepted arbitration or something.”
Thanks for saying that LOOGY. If we can’t trade him we’ll have a filthy bullpen. Yes it’s expensive, but it’s a good problem to have. As long as Wags, Sammy, and Raffy are healthy we’ve shortened the game considerably. I would like the flexibility of having more $ to play with. But it’s not the end of the world. It’s December, FW has time to put the team together.
DOB – If FW can’t trade Raffy do you think having a stacked bullpen (along with our strong starters) may entice some hitters to come play here?
JReeves
December 8th, 2009
12:20 am
GoldenGlove…..agreed on the projections, but they are purposely high just to prove a point. You can debate or plug in anyone, but if we move Lowe for ANYTHING, we have the flexibility we need, and the best bullpen in baseball HANDS down
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:20 am
Expensive bullpen is good problem to have? i’d rather have money.
ChurchMan
December 8th, 2009
12:21 am
The longest they’ll possibly keep him is until Spring Training when the other teams see what they can get out of their current players (and there should come a team or two that see they really need a Soriano-type pitcher in the bullpen … thus .. a trade!)
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:21 am
I really think this might be the year that teams really do try to hold the line on salaries. I would be surprised if more than a handful of teams made as much $ in 2009 as they did in 2008.
Justin
We might just have to agree to disagree on Freeman. No way do I send him down if he is crushing major league pitching in the spring, unless I have signed a top first sacker.
Macon Braves (RIP)
December 8th, 2009
12:21 am
With three guys fully capable of pitching the 8th and 9th (maybe even four with Moylan going against righy lineups), at least Bobby shouldn’t feel like he has to ride one or two guys every night like he tends to do sometimes. These guys shouldn’t have to pitch as much as Gonzo/MFIKY did last year and will hopefully be healthy and rather fresh in August and September (and hopefully October too).
Goldenglove002
December 8th, 2009
12:21 am
Pudge signs with the Nats. Interesting
shmoe
December 8th, 2009
12:21 am
We wouldn’t be playing 5 inning games with the addition of Soriano. In the event he is not traded, we would still be expecting the starters to go 6-8 innings, which these starters are good enough to do, and then we would have fresh shut-down arms galore anywhere from the 7th inning on, every single night. Bobby could play matchups, go with the fresh arm to his heart’s content.
brian
December 8th, 2009
12:21 am
N8 – unlikely to happen but an interesting thought. If the Braves get someone to take Lowe and his salary for low level prospects and the Braves can move Vazquez for a bat, then move Soriano to the rotation as the 5th starter. He was a starter and there were at least rumored discussed or questions asked to that effect a couple years ago. An $8 million starter is a lot easier to swallow than an $8 million middle reliever.
Andrew in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:21 am
I think Nady could be had around 3 or 4 mill a year…i think it will take longer for the braves to find a offense now.
JReeves
December 8th, 2009
12:22 am
BTW, Pudge Rodriguez just signed with the nats….lol
Andrew in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:22 am
DOB,reactions?
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:23 am
Basically Soriano or Lowe needs to be moved before we can really focus on the offense.
Coach (2011 or Bust)
December 8th, 2009
12:23 am
The decision by Soriano was unexpected but still, John Schuerholz would have never offered arbitration in the first place. Wren gambled and lost, period.
Brave's Next Power Hitter (Fielder?)
December 8th, 2009
12:23 am
Hmm…This could be a blessing. Vasquez, Soriano, low prospect for Braun or Fielder.
Fielder – Our 1B power hitter. Sign Cameron.
Braun – Power hitter, LF, Takes over Chippers spot when he’s gone. Get a 1B.
Anyone down for this??
Justin
December 8th, 2009
12:23 am
Lowe and Soriano = 23 mill to the Astros for Carlos Lee = 19 mill and a couple low level guys I know the defense liabilty but he cant be much worse than Garrett Anderson and we survived that. Thoughts w/o killing me.
shmoe
December 8th, 2009
12:24 am
Let’s not forget Medlen and the Aussie got stronger and stronger throughout the season. Also, the Irish kid pitched really well from the specialist role.
Goldenglove002
December 8th, 2009
12:24 am
P’cola, that is probably more than enough for Nady. I posted it yesterday, but I wouldn’t give him more than $500,000 plus incentives considering he probably won’t be ready until atleast May if rehab FROM A 2ND TJ SURGERY goes well. I’d rather spend that money on Delgado if we are going to look at injured players for 1B
BravesFanChris25
December 8th, 2009
12:24 am
Pudge to Nats.
Interesting.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:24 am
Pudge to the Nats is a great move for them. Who better to work with their young staff then Pudge. Guy has been around a long time for a reason.
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:24 am
Churchman
I have always thought that we might be better off waiting until the spring to deal Lowe or Vazquez. The same logic might work for Soriano. The only thing that might negate that possibility, is that FW likes to pull the trigger FAST!
N8
I don’t think the Rangers believe they have a rotation issue. They have some strong, young arms.
NWO
December 8th, 2009
12:25 am
We should keep Lowe and go with a six starter and six reliever system. Starters are more rested and able to pitch deeper and almost all our relivers are battle tested for the 8th and 9th and only need to go every third day.
shmoe
December 8th, 2009
12:25 am
Braun, Carlos Lee and Fielder are all defensive question marks. But I’ll take the bats, no doubt.
brian
December 8th, 2009
12:25 am
the Brewers will not trade Fielder or Braun especailly for two expensive pitchers with one year until free agency. They only way they would discuss a trade for Fielder or Braun is if the conversation starts with Jurrjens. The Braves will target Gamel (and hopefully not Hart) from the Brewers
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:25 am
Coach (2011 or bust),
Actually, Schuerholz did the very same thing with Maddux. Except that was Maddux. not a guy who’s gonna do middle relief for us for $7M+
Andrew in PA
December 8th, 2009
12:25 am
im down with getting prince or braun for them..wont happen though but still
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:25 am
GoldenGlove
Did Nady’s first surgery fail or you refering to the one he had this year?
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 8th, 2009
12:26 am
Sh************************t,
Wren’s updated to do list:
1. Trade MFIKY
2. Trade Lowe
3. Trade Vasquez
4. Find a bat
Goldenglove002
December 8th, 2009
12:26 am
Justin, if the Braves evened out the salary and ate 4 million, I could definitely see a deal like that be plausible. Don’t think it would happen though.
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:26 am
Brave’s Next Power Hitter (Fielder?),
Brewers trading Braun would be like Braves trading Chipper.
Justin
December 8th, 2009
12:27 am
Braun won a gold glove in his first season in left field last year not too much of a defensive liabilty but theres is a snowballs chance in h3!! he is a brave.
jtb
December 8th, 2009
12:27 am
They should convert Soriano to 1st base.
kirkinga
December 8th, 2009
12:27 am
If true, I’m glad Soriano accepted arbitration, if he isn’t traded, the pen just got better. I don’t understand why some people all of sudden don’t want this guy pitching for the Braves? I get not wanting his salray, but it’s not like he doesn’t know he’ll be the setup guy or that the Braves couldn’t use him.
The Braves took a gamble and it didn’t turn out the way they had planned, if the reports are true,that isn’t Soriano’s fault. I think we’ll see if Liberty reacts differently than Time Warner did when faced with a similar situation. It’s time for ownership to step up now. It’s Bobby’s last year and they should provide the payroll necessary for him to have what he needs to go out with a great team.
Macon Braves (RIP)
December 8th, 2009
12:27 am
Heck, the Braves just managed to get 3 of the 4 best relievers available. Worse things could happen in the first couple of weeks of the offseason.
JReeves
December 8th, 2009
12:27 am
P’cola, it failed….had to have the same surgery twice
CB969
December 8th, 2009
12:27 am
The Braves signing of reliever Takashi Saito tells me the Braves intend on keeping Kenshin Kawakami.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:27 am
DOB
Is Baltimore interested in Lowe or Vazquez? Looking at their SP, their ace for next year is Guthrie.
shmoe
December 8th, 2009
12:28 am
Fielder would be the epitome of BobbyBall…Prado gets a hit, Chipper walks, then KABOW
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:28 am
Brewers are close to signing Wolf. Don’t see them being interested in dealing one of their good young bats.
DOB should be down with about 14 gazillion reaction posts between now and 2am EST.
Goldenglove002
December 8th, 2009
12:28 am
he had a second TJ in mid July of this year, and there is really no evidence of what he will be able to do coming off of the surgery. Either way, he waited so long to have the surgery (almost 2 months after the actual injury) that he will likely miss time this year
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:29 am
kirkinga,
If Soriano were gonna be the setup man, then people wouldnt be so upset. Unfortunately he wont even be that. He’ll be MIDDLE RELIEF.
FOR $7M+!!!!!
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:29 am
Thanks Reeves
Didn’t know he had it twice. Well that might really hurt his market. I really like the guy but not having him until almost June isn’t worth it for us.
Justin
December 8th, 2009
12:29 am
Goldenglove002
December 8th, 2009
12:26 am
Justin, if the Braves evened out the salary and ate 4 million, I could definitely see a deal like that be plausible. Don’t think it would happen though.
I also just realized Valverde turned down arb so the Astros need a closer it may not be that bad a deal after all but as you said unlikely to happen.
Macon Braves (RIP)
December 8th, 2009
12:30 am
Brewers trading Braun would be like Braves trading Chipper.
I’d say it’s more like the Braves trading McCann.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:30 am
Well TJ surgery for position players has a faster recovery then pitchers correct? They can usually come back after 8-10 months
Lew
December 8th, 2009
12:30 am
Y’all need to look at the silver lining. At least it means Acosta won’t be in the pen.
shmoe
December 8th, 2009
12:30 am
Wayne in Utah–
Yeah, but does Randy Wolf alone really put them over the top in pitching? They lost CC and Sheets.
Bad Scooter
December 8th, 2009
12:31 am
now only if we got a hitter to go with our halfway decent bullpen
shmoe
December 8th, 2009
12:32 am
Carlos Lee, a Venezuelan, would be a good fit among our Latin players.
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:32 am
Superhoo
If Soriano is here on August 1st, he will be the co-closer. No doubt in my mind.
Justin
December 8th, 2009
12:33 am
They loat CC and Sheets last year if they havnt gotten over that then they are a little bit behind.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:33 am
Soriano, Lowe, KJ, Cash for Wood, Rivera and mid level prospect.
Lowe is cheaper than Lackey and for less years
Soriano one hell of a set up and back up plan if Fuentes struggles
KJ would be a good backup
Wood- Future player for us.
Rivera-Impact Bat
Frankie Knuckles
December 8th, 2009
12:33 am
Yea, this could be problematic. Hey we’ve got the best pen we’ve had in a while.
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:33 am
shmoe
I just don’t see the Brewers going after Lowe. Vazquez, maybe, but not Lowe if they sign Wolf. To be honest, I would be shocked if they were still interested in either of our starters if they sign Wolf.
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:34 am
Wayne in Utah,
so we’ll be paying what? like $16M for combined closers?
Jurrjens4NLCY {In Wren We Trust!}
December 8th, 2009
12:35 am
Is anyone’s confidence in Wren shot?
Just curious, because I still trust him
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:35 am
If the Brewers sign Wolf then they will prob take a chance on one of them injury risk starters. If they sign Wolf it will prob take them out of the running for Vaz or Lowe
TnBrian
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
On if Soriano accepts arbitration offer, Wren said…”We’re going to go ahead and put our club together. The one thing about good players is that when you have good players, you can trade them.”
I think we’ll be ok, lets not give ourselves a heart attack here.
Goldenglove002
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
By the way make sure to keep your guard up DOB. Don’t want a repeat of the last time your were wrong with a signing situation (Ken Griffey)
Hehe
StingerSplash
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
DOB,
I figure that the live music scene on a Monday night in Indy ain’t much.
Nutt would be a good get for KU, but … that would be his third job in three years. That’s a red flag. He is a good coach, though.
some non-baseball related stuff … had the pulled pork at LeeRoy Selmon’s on Saturday before the ACC Championship Game. Good. They had a honey-based sauce that was OK. Skipped the apple cole slaw (hate it. hate cole slaw. and tequila. both created by Beezlebub). Waiting to go back in spring for Tampa-area spring training, Yankees not included. Maybe Phillies, Jays and Cards and whoever else is still around.
But if I may impose upon your local knowledge, DOB, I would love some recommendations for the LandShark Stadium area hotels or restaurants for the Orange Bowl. Planning to fly into Fort Lauderdale, with my buddy and his family (who will go to Disney World first and then to Miami) picking me up before we go to Tech-Iowa game.
Justin
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
lost*
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
Soriano accepting may benefit Wren in his pursuit for a bat
WOW
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
Gonzo declined arb it is official
Mike Gonzalez Turns Down Arbitration
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 7 at 11:09pm CST]
Mike Gonzalez has turned down arbitration to explore the market, according to Yahoo’s Tim Brown. Rafael Soriano accepted the Braves’ offer earlier tonight, so the Braves have a deep bullpen even without Gonzalez.
Gonzalez is a Type A free agent, so they stand to gain a pair of top picks if he signs elsewhere.
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
P’cola
I wouldn’t be surprised if we worked out a trade with the Halos, but I really don’t see them taking on 3 guys with high relative salaries. And so far, the Braves have been unwilling to send $$ along in any prior deals.
I would mind picking up Rivera and Wood though. I think it might be more likely to be Lowe and Milligan for those two.
shmoe
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
Jurjjens…no way. I like FW. He’s certainly motivated to make sure everyone knows who the Braves are, and still make shrewd decisions.
The_Superhoo
December 8th, 2009
12:36 am
Jurrjens4NLCY,
Wren did what i’d do in offering arb to both pitchers. That doesnt mean that I didn’t hope that for once, just ONCE, things would work out as planned. It’s so frustrating to have this pitcher singlehandedly throw a wrench in our plans. Now we have to work to get rid of him AND get a bat rather than just focus on the bat without Soriano in the equation.
BravesFanChris25
December 8th, 2009
12:37 am
I still trust Wren, but this could potentially put a damper on his plans in hindsight.
If offense can be gotten without further hurting the team via payroll issues, then I’ll be fine with Soriano accepting it.
NS
December 8th, 2009
12:37 am
How good of a player could we get in return for Sori?
jeffrey d
December 8th, 2009
12:37 am
Is anyone’s confidence in Wren shot?
Only the loonies. They’re finding every possible angle to complain about Wren and all the idiotic moves he’s made over the past two seasons. And hindsight is a nice ally.
WOW
December 8th, 2009
12:37 am
thats from mlbtraderumors.com
JReeves
December 8th, 2009
12:37 am
GoldenGlove/P’Cola, it may hurt his value, no question….but he is on schedule to be ready for sprint training. It has been well documented that he plans on being ready to go.
ryan c
December 8th, 2009
12:38 am
my thoughts would be to keep him.
with that being said, this team is a lowe trade away from being really good. as of right now, the braves have approximately 94 million committed to 20 players. if they can find a suitor for lowe (even if they have to eat 10 million of his total contract), that would give them 13-14 million dollars(15-16 if we can unload him straight up) to use on those big bats we’ve been hearing about.
bold predictions:
1. braves trade lowe and eat 10 mil in salary.
2. braves sign xavier nady- 2/9
3. braves sign troy glaus- 1/7
4. braves sign gary sheffield 1/2.5
5. braves fill out the roster with jason heyward and luis valdez
your starting lineups for your 2010 atlanta braves:
1. mclouth
2. prado
3. chipper
4. glaus
5. mccann
6. nady/heyward
7. escobar
8. diaz
starters:
vazquez
hudson
jurrjens
hanson
kawakami
pen:
wagner
saito
soriano
medlen
moylan
o’flaherty
luis valdez
bench:
sheffield
nady/heyward
ross
infante
b. conrad
total payroll: 96-97 million dollars
signing troy glaus, gary sheffield, and xavier nady gives the braves the offensive flexibility and provides power in any lineup scenario. heyward will probably benefit from a year in the majors where he only plays 120-130 games in favaorable matchups. we already know that chipper functions better when he gets rest. troy glaus and xavier nady are both coming off injuries and will probably benefit from a 450-500 at-bat season instead of 600. in this dream of a roster, chipper, diaz, heyward, nady, and glaus all get plenty of playing time and plenty of rest.
chipper needs a rest? glaus to 3rd, nady to 1st, heyward in right.
glaus needs a rest? nady to first, heyward in right
diaz needs a rest? nady to left heyward to right
one of glaus, nady, or chipper get hurt? insert sheffield in the rotation
i hope frank wren is an ajc reader.
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
12:38 am
Still have 100% confidenc in FW here!
Justin
December 8th, 2009
12:38 am
P’cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
12:33 am
Soriano, Lowe, KJ, Cash for Wood, Rivera and mid level prospect.
Lowe is cheaper than Lackey and for less years
Soriano one hell of a set up and back up plan if Fuentes struggles
KJ would be a good backup
Wood- Future player for us.
Rivera-Impact Bat
Wood is their starting 3rd baseman now that Figgins is with Seattle doubt theyd take a chance on dealing him and his 30 hrs in AAA