12:46 am December 7, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 7th, 20094:38 pm
if we trade for rivera which i wouldnt mind if we could dump lowe then who do yall think we get to play 1st also is there a chance to sign cameron or another outfielder too plus a power hitting 1st baseman just a suggestion
of diaz or someone else
December 7th, 20094:39 pm
Medlen is a good pitcher, and will be great someday, but never better than Jurrjens
Greg Olson Homers
Whoever ends up in second/third place in the Lackey race is going to trade a bag of balls for Derek Lowe. That is how I see it, and love it.
December 7th, 20094:41 pm
PWH, I think we need to see a bit more of Medlen to declare him more valuable than Jair. 434 major league innings to 67 major league innings is quite a large gap. I like Medlen a lot, but one less year of service time and a higher K rate(in 67 innings) than Jair isn’t going to make me think he is more valuable. Of course, you could just start spitting out Medlen’s minor league body of work and what not. But I still wouldn’t consider him more valuable. Jurrjens is a year younger than Medlen.
P. W. Hjort
Jurrjens contract: ‘10: League minimum, ‘11: arb 1, ‘12 arb 2, ‘13 arb 3
Medlen contract: ‘10: League minimum, ‘11: league minimum , ‘12 arb 1, ‘13, arb 2, ‘14 arb 3, ‘15 arb 4
Medlen is under contract for two more years than Jurrjens.
THink Cox was sending “You know Who” a message. ” We still think he can be productive.” Even though he wasn’t last year. Message received loud and clear.
December 7th, 20094:43 pm
Might want to wait just a hair on that Jurrjens love boat. He might be Glavine with a better fastball, or reality might catch up with his peripherals. Just no way to tell yet, and probably won’t be, until after the fact.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 20094:45 pm
Mark Bowman: Have you thought about going into the Hall of Fame before Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz?
Bobby Cox: I told them I want to live long enough to see them inducted. Smoltzie is going to pitch forever, I think. Maddux finally left last year. And Glavine, he’s not going to pitch this year.
I literally burst out laughing when I read Cox’s comment on Glavine.
Really????? He couldn’t come up with something better to say about Tom Glavine – The 1995 World Series MVP – Dear Lord
It’s call your bluff time in Indy.
Wren insists that whether or not Soriano (or even Gonzalez, for that matter) accepts arbitration, it’s “not a big deal” for the Braves and it won’t slow them in their ongoing construction of the team. His reasoning: Whether or not the agent is confident that Soriano can get a multi-year deal worth passing up arbitration for, the Braves are confident that the market for relievers will heat up in coming weeks, as it has in past years.
And then, Wren said he believes the agent (or agents) would come to the Braves asking for their clients to be traded, because they’re not going to be happy in the roles that would be there for them if they came back to the Braves.
“We feel protected either way,” Wren said. “A. They don’t accept [arbitraition]. B., they accept and at some point we trade them. It’s not a big deal either way.”
Wren said that the payroll thing wouldn’t be a short-term detriment, when I asked him if the Braves would have to account for the $7-8 mill salary Soriano might get, whether they’d have to move someone else or not sign someone else until they got rid of Soriano, etc. They have flexibility to operate with payroll above targeted amount short-term, in other words.
“We wouldn’t worry about that [Soriano accepting arb) holding us back. We’re going to put our club together. That’s the thing about having good players — when you have good players, you can trade them.”
December 7th, 20094:47 pm
P.W. Hjort, your numbers are off on Medlen’s contract. He EITHER a) gets arb 1 in 2011, arb 2 ‘12, arb 3 ‘13, arb 4 ‘14 OR league min ‘11, arb 1 ‘12, arb 2 ‘13, arb 3 ‘14. Either way he’s a free agent in 2015, meaning you get him for ONE more year than Jurrjens.
Interest in Kelly has been higher than Braves thought when they came here, at least one or two teams have expressed interest since they got here.
Wren said as far as their pursuit of a big bat, he didn’t know if that or trading a pitcher would happen this week. Said that the market is, like last year, slower so far at meetings because teams are waiting for the non-tender date to see what other players might become free agents.
“Clubs are waiting to see what might be out there,” he said. “It makes this a difficult week to try to get things done.”
December 7th, 20094:48 pm
Maybe Medlen can become a very successful pitcher along the lines of a Maddux. HIs fastball is faster than Gregs, don’t think it moves as much, but his best pitch is that changeup that makes lefties look silly. He will need to work on throwing all of his pitches in any count. But at this point I have to disagree that he is more valuable than JJ, who may be the most valuable pitcher on the team.
Nate from NCState
December 7th, 20094:49 pm
I think some of you guys are reading WAY to much into what Bobby is saying. I don’t think he is sending any messages to Chipper that he, Chipper, hasn’t sent to himself. Chipper was the one talking about retiring if he couldn’t produce better than he did last year.
If Bobby was so faithful to Greg Norton, how faithful do you think he is going to be to the face of the Braves franchise for the past 10 years or so?
DOB stay in Indy. Find a new job.
I notice that Wren did not go with an Option C, i.e., “We’d be happy to have a player of his caliber on the team.” LOL
“Accept, if you want; we’ll just trade your bleep.” Pow! Bam!
December 7th, 20094:50 pm
MATTYROSS —-> Where did you get Cox’s Chipper quotes from?
on Glavine…is it just me or does that read along the lines of “thank goodness Tommy is gone”?
One day, one bus, both Chipper and TommyG…
December 7th, 20094:51 pm
Wow, suprising comments by Wren. I mean, everyone knows Soriano doesn’t fit into the Braves plans, but I expected a more diplomatic answer than “A. They don’t accept [arbitraition]. B., they accept and at some point we trade them. It’s not a big deal either way.”
December 7th, 20094:52 pm
Here’s another quote from Wren about Soriano’s situation (and Gonzalez’s if Boras were to try the same tact, though no one anticipates Boras will and he’s not indicated he’s even considering accepting arbitration; he’s just said nothing about it).
Wren: “I would anticipate that if they take arbitration, they’re not necessarily going to be happy with the roles they have when they come back. Because they’re not going to be the same as when they left. And once the market develops for relievers, they’ll be asking us to try to [trade] them.”
December 7th, 20094:53 pm
Can the Braves pursue upton or granderson?
December 7th, 20094:54 pm
Homer: Nah, it’s cold here. I like Atlanta. See ya soon.
soriano’s agent is just playing the game. He will sign else where.
December 7th, 20094:56 pm
Monty…did you really just compare Medlen to Greg Maddux??? Really??
I don’t know what this homer guy has against you…but pretty funny you took the time to respond seeing how busy you are.
And i’m not being sarcastic. I’m amused…lol
Jimmy Joe (December 7th, 2009 4:16 pm): “Look at the bright side, if Soriano accepts, that means we have Soriano, Vazquez, Wagner, and Saito coming off the books next year at around 30 million dollars.”
Yeah, and if we sign manRam for a year, we’ll have $50 million coming off the books next year.
December 7th, 20094:57 pm
Why do I keep imagining Wren following up that last quote with “what now, b****es?”
civilized white trash
Homer’s my hero
December 7th, 20094:58 pm
Wren is the man. I don’t care what anyone says.
This guy has baseballs.
Home of the Braves
I’ve got to complement Wren’s work so far this offseason. He worked behind the scenes and lined up contracts for Wagner and Saito. Then he offered arbitration to both Gonzo and Soriano even though most thought he’d only offer to one. Having already virtually locked up his closer and set-up man, he CREATED the RP market by taking two of the top options off the board.
Not only did that make it more likely that Soriano and Gonzo would not accept arb (though no one really ever thought Gonzo would), but it also forced other teams interested in RPs to be aggressive early so that they did not miss out on all the good ones.
Even if Soriano accepts, Wren will know who’s in the hunt for RPs (because he’s forced them to show their hands by being so aggressive), and he’ll be able to work a trade to keep the payroll at a reasonable level.
Not sure everyone will follow that logic, but if you do, you’ll see just how brilliant Wren’s strategy has been so far this offseason. Hope he keeps up the good work.
can’t wait until the 11 p.m. – 1 a.m. time frame… sounds like it could be a blitzkreig of activity with the arbitartion deadline and then teams swooping in to snatch up those who turn it down. As TO would say: I got my popcorn ready!
December 7th, 20094:59 pm
DOB, you need to head to the Slippery Noodle for some good blues. it is within walking distance from the hotels!! gotta love the Indiana weather this time of year!!!
DOB or anyone
What is the deadline for non-tender decisions?
December 7th, 20095:00 pm
soriano’s agent is just playing the game. He will sign else where.FEAR
We haven’t heard any team have significant interest in Soriano. I fully expect him to accept the offer tonight. And why in the world would a team trade the Braves anything more than a c-level prospect for Soriano, knowing that they can’t go into the season with him. Wren is the one bluffing. He should of waited on signing Saito.
Frank takes no prisoners.
Rob - in pain (from SC)
December 7th, 20095:01 pm
Redstick, you can read about it all tomorrow dude. It’s just reporters talking about contracts, not like you’d be missing live game action…
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 20095:04 pm
Midnight is only 10pm for me. Easy money!
December 7th, 20095:05 pm
*”He should of waited on signing Saito”*
Should of, could of, would of…
That’s gold, Jerry!
And why in the world would a team trade the Braves anything more than a c-level prospect for Soriano, knowing that they can’t go into the season with him.
Because there are going to be way more than one team looking for a reliever of Soriano’s stature once the dust settles. Aside from Gonzalez, who else is available that anyone would want over Soriano? Lindstrom? Valverde?
Face is, the reason a team would trade more than a c-level prospect is because they know that the other teams in their division would likely trade more.
December 7th, 20095:07 pm
the reason a team would trade more than a c-level prospect is because they know that the other teams in their division would likely trade more.RC
If they were that interested, they would just sign the guy.
jimmy joe. from jon heyman: Heyman notes that Soriano has attracted interest from the Yankees, Orioles, and Astros
Wayne, there should be some advantage to living with all the bearded women in Utah.
December 7th, 20095:08 pm
I hate that they want to wait for another date to pass. Why cant the non-tender date be before the Winter meetings, or have the winter meetings after the non-tender date. It sucks waiting around for news, lol.
December 7th, 20095:09 pm
Dave Cameron has a fantastic “Guide to Rumor Lingo” up at FanGraphs:
A Person Familiar With The Negotiations – Someone who has refreshed MLBTradeRumors.com constantly.
Major League Source – Charlie Sheen.
A Source With Knowledge Of The Player’s Thoughts – The player’s agent.
A Baseball Official – An engineer at Rawlings.
Guy Who Gave Jon Heyman His Information – Scott Boras.
If anyone wants to see the rest, here is the link: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/guide-to-rumor-lingo
December 7th, 20095:11 pm
They CAN’T sign Soriano if he accepts arbitration. That’s where the “when the dust settles” part of my comment comes in.
18 Wheels of Love
December 7th, 20095:12 pm
Get ‘em Frank!
I dub thee Frank the Tank!
DOB: Any thoughts on the fangraphs piece comparing DeRosa and Johnson? Also, with the higher than expected interest in Johnson, is it possible that increases his chances of being tendered in order to give the Braves more time to evaluate trade offers?
Wren is covering his own a@s. Depending on how this turns out, he may have made a mistake moving on Wagner and Saito before these guys decline arbitration.
December 7th, 20095:13 pm
bravo i disagree with you completely there actually may be more hot girls in utah then there is in georgia
December 7th, 20095:14 pm
Why doe Karl Ravech from Baseball Tonight absolutely despise the Braves? It’s obvious and it makes me sick. He talks so slick but in reality he’s overrated.
Enter your comments here
jimmy joe. from jon heyman: Heyman notes that Soriano has attracted interest from the Yankees, Orioles, and AstrosFEAR
I can find you articles stating that the Orioles would rather not waste a draft pick on a reliever. And the Astos have no money and the Yanks aren’t going after middle relievers on December 7th. Soriano is accepting.
December 7th, 20095:16 pm
Dave- I am not sure what the value of Soriano “playing chicken” with the Braves and arbitration. What is there to gained for Soriano?
I don’t think Homer is a big O’Brien fan.
December 7th, 20095:17 pm
What is there to gained for Soriano?Daniel
A one year deal worth 7-8 million.
Yeah, I hear in Utah there’s LITERALLY two girls for every boy
RC (December 7th, 2009 4:47 pm EST) P.W. Hjort, your numbers are off on Medlen’s contract. He EITHER a) gets arb 1 in 2011, arb 2 ‘12, arb 3 ‘13, arb 4 ‘14 OR league min ‘11, arb 1 ‘12, arb 2 ‘13, arb 3 ‘14. Either way he’s a free agent in 2015, meaning you get him for ONE more year than Jurrjens.
No. That’s incorrect. My numbers are not wrong.
As of right now, Kris Medlen has between 0 and 1 years of service time. We’ll call it 150 days (I don’t know the exact figure, but 2 years, 150 days qualifies you for Super 2 and Medlen will qualify for super 2 if he doesn’t spend any more time in the minors, so it’s a useful number in this case).
Assuming he spends all of 2010 on the active MLB roster, he’ll have 1 year, 150 days of service time (between 1 and 2 years). Per Wikipedia, these are the rules of eligibility for salary arbitration:
A player is eligible for salary arbitration if he:
1. is ineligible for free agency
2. is without a contract
3. cannot agree with his current team on a new contract
4. has been on a major league roster or disabled list for at least three years
“Super Two” exception – A player with at least two years of experience may be eligible for salary arbitration if he:
1. Meets the first three requirements from above
2. Played in the majors for at least 86 days in the previous season
3. Is among the top 17 percent for cumulative playing time in the majors among others with at least 2 years, but less than 3 years experience
In 2011, seeing as there’s only 1 year between now and then (2010) to accumulate service time and seeing as he currently has less than one year of total service time, there’s zero chance he has two or more total years of service time. Therefore, he’s not arbitration eligible by the 3-year requirement or the super-2 exception.
Under no circumstances will Kris Medlen be arbitration-eligible in 2011.
If he spends a month in the minors between April 2010 and December 2011, he’ll have ~2 years, 120 days of service time, and he won’t be arbitration-eligible under the 3-year rule or the super-2 exemption in 2012. If he doesn’t spend any time in the minors between April 2010 and December 2011, he’ll have ~2 years 150 days of service time, and he will be arbitration eligible under the super-2 exemption in 2012.
In 2013, he will be arbitration eligible, either for the first time if he’s not a super-2 or the 2nd time if he is.
In 2014 he will be arbitration eligible, for the 2nd time if he’s not a super-2 or the 3rd time if he is.
At this point, he has accumulated either 5 years, 150 days if he was a super-2 or 5 years, 120 days if he wasn’t a super-2. Either way, it’s between 5 and 6 years.
Again, per Wikipedia, the rules for FA eligibility:
If a player is drafted and is offered a contract by his drafting team (or any team he is traded to) each year, he may not become a free agent until he has been on a major league 25-man roster or disabled list for at least six years.
Seeing as in either scenario, Kris Medlen will not have accumulated 6 years of service time, he is not eligible for Free Agency.
So, in 2015, will be arbitration eligible, for the 3rd time if he’s not a super-2 or the 4th time if he is.
Under no circumstances (other than whatever organization he’s in non-tendering him) will Kris Medlen be a free agent in 2015.
soriano could be another farnsworth… more comfortable in as a set up man….if the yankees are interested, why in the world would you even consider arbitration unless you know that you can’t take the late inning pressure…..
December 7th, 20095:18 pm
Karl Ravich is a pecker head to the highest degree. He always looks like he’s about to say something smart a** & he usually does.
December 7th, 20095:19 pm
PICKENS….why what did karl the ravesher say?
Why do I get the feeling that this is how Frank Wren looked during his interviews with David O’Brien, Bill Shanks and Mark Bowman this afternoon when discussing Soriano
December 7th, 20095:20 pm
RC, Wayne from Utah needs some good odds with his looks.
RC- that last post was hilarious.
December 7th, 20095:21 pm
P. W. Hjort,
I think you are correct. I got mixed up in my head counting the years, but I agree that Medlen won’t be an FA until AFTER 2015. Sorry for incorrectly correcting you.
December 7th, 20095:22 pm
I absolutely LOVE that Wren is basically saying that if Soriano wants to get paid 8 million bucks to work the 6th inning, fine with him (wink wink).
Because he’s right. The team can’t be hamstrung when deciding what direction to go with their team (like a certain HOF QB did to his Packers for 4 or 5 off-seasons in a row). Sh!t or get off the pot.
Wren’s got a club to build and he shouldn’t have to wait for a wishy washy player/agent combo trying to milk every penny out of the market, to put his club together.
If Soriano wanted so much to be a Brave, he and his agent could have come to Wren in August and stated that much and I’m sure a reasonable contract (like the one given Wagner) could have been worked out.
Instead, he now realizes that 10 teams aren’t going to throw him a 3 year 30 million dollar contract, so he might decide to “settle” for returning to Atlanta.
Good luck with that.
December 7th, 20095:24 pm
Nova Scotia Steve, that youtube clip is hilarious. If anyone can photoshop Wren’s face onto that video, I will be eternally grateful.
DOB – I’m having a hard time deciding which way Wren is trying to push Soriano. Obviously, he’s so tight lipped that when he (Wren) does open up … it seems to be with a purpose. Soriano’s agent will be taking to GMs this week … and they’ve just been told by Wren (through you) that if there is no market and he accepts arb instead … there is still the potential to trade for him later.
Is it your feeling that he wants Soriano to decline arb … or would he prefer a valuable trade chip?
December 7th, 20095:25 pm
touche sounds like wayne is a smart man for moving there then
December 7th, 20095:26 pm
Yeah, I know I can read about it later… I was just saying that I’m jonesing bad for some real baseball news rather than all of us just guessing and tossing out our own trade scenarios. That’s all.
December 7th, 20095:28 pm
I loved your comment at 4:54 towards Homer. Calm, yet to the point. Hilarious.
Oh, and about earlier Stan Kasten comment: He lives in Atlanta still, so probably just coming from home to Indy. He laughed when I told him what I’d written about him possibly visiting with Smoltz while there (Kasten is Nationals president, and there’s supposedly “mutual interest” between the Nats and Smoltz). Kasten wouldn’t say whether he saw Smoltz while in town.
December 7th, 20095:32 pm
Shmoe-He just always has belittled the Braves. Just his overall tone. I mean i dont expect espn to talk about the braves more because Boston, NY, Chicago, and LA dominate the show.
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger
December 7th, 20095:37 pm
DOB, I don’t think LaRoche He doesn’t get hot until July and we will be out of the race. Can we trade Soriano after arbitration for a big bat. I’d love to see Derosa at 2nd.
Earlier today, Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald tweeted that the Red Sox met with Escobar’s agent Peter Greenberg, who also represents Rafael Soriano.
Come on, Theo. Hand over that first for Sori….or Gonzo(both of which have a higher Elias ranking than Scutaro. Of course, Matt Holliday has a higher ranking than Sori and Gonzo, so it may not be beneficial)
December 7th, 20095:39 pm
Bank Walker, Texas Ranger: Why would you love to see DeRosa at 2B over Prado or Johnson for that matter? Not worth the additional cost at 2B.
i was just gonna post that greenberg thing
I haven’t looked into it much but Foxsports is reporting that Rays are interested in trading Upton and Wade for Halladay. Blue Jays would flip Upton to another team? Maybe Braves would be interested in that scenario?
Nice try with KASTEN.
December 7th, 20095:40 pm
Medlen, better than Jurrjens? More valuable than JJ????
And schit splatters when it hits the fan. For stupid man……..but funny as hell!!!!!!!!
December 7th, 20095:41 pm
Thanks for the apology, RC, though an apology isn’t necessary. All is well.
December 7th, 20095:42 pm
If Soriano or Gonzo accept arbitration, I’ll eat my Braves’ road cap.
Slow isn’t necessarily bad at ye olde winter meetings. Rather Wren take it slowly, which he seems to be doing. As much as it would be nice for Wren to make news at Indy, he’s got the rest of the winter and into the spring to make deals that really leverage Lowe or Vazquez, or to sign a power bat and a 1B.
So is MFIKY gonna’ wait until 11:59 p.m. tonight? Come on already. BTW, has GONZO declared already or will be a double dip at midnight?
December 7th, 20095:43 pm
We need a heck of a lot more than Josh Willingham. The Braves are trying to build a team like the Braves of the early 90’s and that won’t get it today, we need more offense.
December 7th, 20095:44 pm
Its been reported before about B.J. Upton possibly being available and it looks like he still might be. I have been hoping for a trade for him for a while. He is still young and will be very, very good one day.
C’mon Wren! There is your right handed power guy how can also steal bases. Go get him….take the gamble!
December 7th, 20095:45 pm
Medlen, better than Jurrjens?
Never said that. And better doesn’t mean more valuable. Contracts, dimwit.
December 7th, 20095:46 pm
I like Adrian Gonzalez. Could we trade Lowe, Schafer and Kj for him?
Also, the rumors about Edwin Jackson to the mets made me a little nervous, but then I realized that i should be more nervous about facing the Phillies with their addition of Polanco a few weeks ago. Maybe the addition of Soriano wouldn’t be so bad. We’re not going to beat them in the playoffs without a disgustingly good set of 3 starters and a shutdown bullpen, because we’re not going to out hit them….we’re just not
December 7th, 20095:54 pm
balla – the pads would laugh at that offer and counter with Hanson, Escobar, and Freeman
December 7th, 20095:55 pm
good thing is good pitching usually beats great hitting
Just a few points of clarification:
1) The females in Utah, while bearded, at least have the majority of their teeth remaining.
2) Two girls for every boy……Idaho, not Utah.
3) Yes, I am ugly, so I must be on my best behavior to be able to keep the good looking lady I wed 32+ years ago (of course, it might help that she is blind).
The moral of the story is this, if you are one ugly southern boy, looking for companionship, come to Utah where the bearded women are plentiful and still have most of their teeth…..as opposed to some areas of the south.
December 7th, 20095:56 pm
monty – Maddog had a 92mph heater at his peak in Cys 92-95
what does the little dog Medlen throw ???
December 7th, 20095:57 pm
If SD took that package for Gonzalez, the GM would be fired immediately.
The Padres will NOT take a large contract. Same with about 3/4 of the major league teams out there.
Frank Wren interview today
December 7th, 20095:58 pm
not gonna happen unless we ate almost all of Lowe’s salary. even then I doubt it
December 7th, 20096:00 pm
Actually, all that about women out west was a lie. I have been asked not to encourage any more of my relatives or similar southern folk to move out west…..
Go west young man! (West Virginia, that is!)
December 7th, 20096:02 pm
even if soriano and gonzo accept arbitration, bobby will wear them out all out by the all star break,,,trying to create a 5 inning game
oh good lord, they are showing the beige wall-paper at the mlb set on mlb tv at the Indy Hot Stove
and Wayne you thought GA chicks were rough….
Indy… not too real pretty there……
December 7th, 20096:04 pm
I spent a long year one night in Indiana
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