12:46 am December 7, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 7th, 20091:21 pm
ryan c – thanks I am 44, the missus is 49,we like to dance and EAT so will check out those spots as well
I will put on 15 lbs in 6 days I suspect
December 7th, 20091:22 pm
I wonder if the Braves might trade Lowe/Vazquez for prospects and salary relief. Then, using those prospects, go after a power-hitting first baseman.
Right now, Braves’s biggest need is 1st base. If they had to, they could field a major league ready out-field. They’ve got nothing at first.
December 7th, 20091:24 pm
I’m also wondering, based on BC’s comments, if the Braves aren’t waiting to hear about arbitration guys to make their next move.
In other words, the next move is ready. But, if S or G accept arbitration, they may not have the salary flexibility to make it.
December 7th, 20091:25 pm
Yahoo’s Steve Henson says the Braves want to move Derek Lowe or Javier Vazquez, but not Kenshin Kawakami.
The problem is they don’t want to block first because they believe Freeman will develop into the power hitting first baseman we need.
December 7th, 20091:26 pm
A message to some: I see a lot of posts pertaining to this guy or that that mention that they are “not the answer”. Keep in mind that the Braves aren’t looking for just one guy to come in and be the savior of our team. They are looking at multiple people for multiple positions. And they aren’t looking with the expectation that who they get will carry our team to the World Series. They will sign guys that are able to help the team. It’s as simple as that. If we upgrade our offense and hopefully defense overall then I like where the team is headed.
Efrim: Ok, how about this…. if the Angels want Lowe than I would trade him and maybe a another decent player for Juan Rivera. Sign Laroche because of his good glove and his power. I don’t much care for Mike Cameron because of his strikeouts. Boy, does he do that a lot. Some of you say, “well, he plays good CF and has a little power, so who cares about strikeouts?” Hey, you will when he’s up at the plate in crucial parts of the game and he whiffs over and over. I’ve watched this dude can choke with the best of them.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 7th, 20091:27 pm
I’m refreshing like a madman…and there’s not even any real Braves rumors swirling. And they probably won’t be until “Sorianogate”
December 7th, 20091:28 pm
Why hasn’t Gonzo declined arbitration? I know that he can wait til the deadline, but, what’s the point?
The thing is, I was listening to XM radio, and the guys there said they thought Gonzo might accept the Braves’s arbitration offer.
December 7th, 20091:29 pm
“And there will probably won’t be until Sorianogate is over” is what I meant to say…
DOB- Thanks for the great blog. As a Braves and Hawks fan, it is so refreshing to have an AJC beat writer who knows his stuff and is a great writer. No disrespect to Ken, but the bosses need to get something done.
On another note. You really should check out the music from a band called Real Estate, they sound like early Yo La Tengo. Excellent album.
What are people feeling about Nady?
December 7th, 20091:30 pm
I would imagine with the Angels missing out on Figgins they will resign Lackey taking them out of the running for Lowe.
December 7th, 20091:31 pm
Freeman is more of a gap power guy than a Home Run power guy.
In a lot of cases, a strikeout is the least bad out you can make. It’s not as bad as hitting into a double play, for instance.
You’d prefer players to *never* make outs, but that’s not an option. So if Cameron’s OBP is acceptable otherwise, and he can help your club with power and defense, who cares if the outs he makes are via the whiff?
December 7th, 20091:32 pm
Angels pursuing Bay. Could Juan Rivera be dealt for Lowe?
Lowe trade rumor, though it may just be someone’s idea of a good trade. It is through fox sports.
December 7th, 20091:33 pm
Now I like those ideas although I’ll have to disagree with you on Cameron. He does play very good defense and it’s not like the Braves have a team full of K machines. Cameron would be a very nice fit for a good price. But, if they can not only trade Lowe but for a guy like RIvera than I can’t imagine Wren passing on that.
From ESPN CHAT on Winter Meetings:
jcrasnick: Rafael Soriano’s agents just got into Indy. They’re planning to meet with clubs all day before Soriano makes his arbitration decision.
December 7th, 20091:34 pm
There are “productive outs” where you move a runner over to second/third or score a run from third with fewer than two outs.
December 7th, 20091:35 pm
balla1881 — Nope — no joke.
Jair Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez, straight up.
Keep Lowe, extend Vazquez.
Should have checked the previous page before replying to Pete. He’s interested in Vernon Wells but thinks Cameron’s a choker? Yup, guy should be banned.
Possible Lowe trade
December 7th, 20091:39 pm
I’m actually not totally opposed to that idea…I’ve been thinking about it since you posted about an hour ago.
It all really depends…with Jurrjens being a Boras client will we ever be able to re-sign the guy when his contract is up.
Cause as sure as s*it…Adrian Gonzalez will be leaving via free agency in two seasons…if that deal was made…but i’m not totally opposed.
December 7th, 20091:40 pm
Random with a trade proposal, I love it. Don’t think SD would do it,buddy.
December 7th, 20091:41 pm
I like Cameron, outright gamer that guy, seems like a nice bloke too
JJ for Braun but nothing less
December 7th, 20091:42 pm
So, what are the thoughts on Juan Rivera around here?
I know he’s an oger in the field, but could the Braves possibly be thinking about him at 1b?
will the people who keep talking about Adrian, Bay and Holliday please just shut up?!?!?!?!
it’s NOT going to happen. Let it go. Just let it go.
December 7th, 20091:43 pm
Stupid Soriano, now the waiting game will likely continue because MFIKY can’t come up with a decision. Not entirely he or his agents fault, that’s just part of the business, but it is a headache. I still love DOB’s comment under Rafy’s photo at the top of the page. That pretty much sums it all up.
December 7th, 20091:44 pm
If Rivera is acquired than he will be a LF. Decent hitter though. Could do well for us.
“Jair Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez, straight up.
Keep Lowe, extend Vazquez.” -Random
Couldn’t agree more. Don’t get me wrong, I love JJ. But we have a window to win right now and need to take advantage of it.
December 7th, 20091:46 pm
I’m from Lafayette, and most of my family still lives down there. I miss South Louisiana as much as anything.
December 7th, 20091:47 pm
jcrasnick: Rafael Soriano’s agents just got into Indy. They’re planning to meet with clubs all day before Soriano makes his arbitration decision.
jcrasnick: If Soriano thinks he can do better than 1-year and $7-8 mill on open market, he’ll go out. If not, Atlanta is a nice fallback for him.
Latest from ESPN
December 7th, 20091:48 pm
The braves can be competitive by signing two 20-25 HR guys. We don’t need to empty the farm for a rental. NO way we would be able to resign him. If we do it, then in two years everyone will be complaining how it was a bad trade and shouldn’t of given up so much for him.
December 7th, 20091:51 pm
Vazquez or Lowe and a low rated reliever for Wigginton and Scott. Then sign a RH first baseman and we are set.
Wayne in Utah
December 7th, 20091:52 pm
I would prefer a two year conract to Adam LaRoche over unloading a boat load of prospects or Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez. We don’t need any more rental players, unless they are lower cost ones.
December 7th, 20091:54 pm
Strangely enough, Rivera has been ~ +2 rpg in LF the last 3 years for the Angels, AND he in fact does have experience at 1b…2 innings worth lol.
I think if the Braves ran into the situation where they could sign a Cameron and trade for a Rivera they wouldn’t have much of a problem in putting Juan at 1b…just my 2 cents.
Would anyone think getting Rivera for Lowe would be some sort of a steal or not?
December 7th, 20091:56 pm
I think Rivera being unloaded depends on if they have a shot at Bay. If they sign him they wouldn’t have enough for Lackey making Lowe a very good option.
The more and more I think about the Soriano situation the more I agree with DOB’s proposal that it’s an agent tactic. I’ll be so glad if that’s the case. This team needs an offensive upgrade next year and this situation can have quite the negative impact on that…
P’cola Brave: The braves can be competitive by signing two 20-25 HR guys.
I completely agree. Cameron and LaRoche fit that bill perfectly. Meanwhile we have an outstanding defense to back up our stellar pitching staff, we give up no top prospects and we commit very little in terms of money and years.
December 7th, 20091:58 pm
Heyward, Freeman and (possibly) Schafer to the big club in 2010 and 2011. Those are your long term “big bats.”…for a mid-market team the above blueprint gives the Braves the best chance to solidly compete for the next five or more years.
Mayb in five years, LOL. I think all three of those players will be good-to-great, but they are also going to be young, young, young for the five years of your time-frame. You cannot overestimate the importance of a solid, veteran, big-time slugger to a team built around young up-and-coming players. Not only as a steadying influence to the kids, but also as a guy who can produce enough offensively to offset the inevitable growing pains those kids will face.
So, I would say that a future that includes Heyward, Schafer, and Freeman as core players increases, not lessens, the need for a big-time bat in the middle of the order. For a couple-three years, at least.
That all depends on how much of Lowe’s contract will be paid by Atlanta in the deal, but if that deal can be made and Cameron can be acquired that’d be quite the offensive upgrade.
Why the hell is Soriano’s agents just now getting to the winter meetings. If I was Soriano, I would fire my agents for not being on top of their game.
December 7th, 20091:59 pm
JJ- yeah, I didn’t know it before last night… but now I’m definitely sensing that there is a strong South Louisiana presence here on MIB/Braves blog. That’s cool. Oh, and I miss that Louisiana culture something awful too. But things ain’t all that bad when you can look out your balcony window and enjoy the Gulf of Mexico and the beach.
December 7th, 20092:00 pm
I bet we dont hear anything about the Braves doing anything today until after we find out if Soriano is going to decline or not. Thanks Soriano.
Twitter experts help! I have logged into Twitter for email@example.com and it gives me a bunch of Braves listings but none appear to be DOB. How do I get there?
December 7th, 20092:01 pm
December 7th, 2009
Why the hell is Soriano’s agents just now getting to the winter meetings
Not to worry. They’ve got ’till midnight to have the BRAVES and their faithful dangle.
December 7th, 20092:02 pm
Why on Earth would Smoltz want to pitch for the Nats? Isn’t the only reason he’s hanging around is to try and get another ring? That ain’t gonna happen in Washington.
December 7th, 20092:03 pm
I don’t think I would trade JJ for anyone at this point, not even Braun. Even though he has Boras for an agent, he will be under team control for several more years even if he doesn’t sign an extention. He’s too good to unload now…maybe in another 2-3 years when he gets expensive in arbitration but not now.
December 7th, 20092:04 pm
Mac, just do a search for David O’Brien, he is the 2nd one down on the list with the Hank Aaron picture.
O.J.- i think the braves would like to move lowe or vazquez this week if they can. or atleast find some suitors. shouldnt affect them much on finding a bat, if they dump lowe’s or vazquez salary. but it will affect how much they can upgrade the offense after the lowe or vazquez trade or the bench needs, etc. but the first day of the meetings is alot of rumors, while tuesday and wedensday should be alot more action
You read my mind about Smoltz. Doesn’t make any sense.
December 7th, 20092:05 pm
Peter “Deep Throat” Greenberg
CB (December 7th, 2009 1:40 pm): “a trade proposal, I love it. Don’t think SD would do it,buddy.”
Why not? Four years of Jurrjens (a solid #2 (at least) SP, at $~0.5M in ‘10, and 3 years arb-eligible) for two years of AGon?
They might do that. They oughta.
Thundersticks and Random, while I was one of the first to suggest during the season that JJJ might net us the biggest prize of all of our pitchers, should Wren decide to trade one (this was before Hudson came back), that has now changed with Hudson being extened.
While in a perfect world, it might be the way to go.
But what part of salary restraints for Wren don’t you guys understand? Not only does Gonzalez make more than JJJ makes (which means trading one for the other ADDS salary to our payroll), but keeping Lowe and Vazquez is not an option.
Lowe, Vazquez, Hudson, Chipper, McCann, Saito and Wagner will combine to make 65 million dollars. Leaving about 27 million dollars to fill the rest of the 25 man roster (18 other players). One of whom is Adrian Gonzalez (4.5 million), thus leaving 22.5 million for 17 other players.
Sorry guys. Not going to happen. No matter how right you are about the window to win now, and how adding Gonzalez while keeping Vazquez and Lowe, might make us a better team for 2010 by keeping JJJ and trading Vazquez or Lowe for a lesser 1B.
Long-term, this is also a no-brainer to dump one of the older pitchers and retain JJJ. But I realize you guys are suggesting to “go for it” now.
But again. With Ted Turner, Arthur Blank or Mark Cuban running the Braves? Sure. But with Liberty Media and the payroll capped at around 92 million? NEVER going to happen. NEVER.
Besides. If you think the Padres are giving up Gonzalez even up for JJJ, you’re nutz. They will over-value him just like Towers did Peavy and go for a package of multiple prospects. Maybe none as good as JJJ is now, but they are not doing a one-for-one trade of Adrian Gonzalez.
Am I the only one who thinks shorting the game to 6 innings by having soriano in the 7th can be a good thing.
December 7th, 20092:06 pm
I hope the Braves will at least kick the tires on a trade for Granderson,worth at least a try with an affordable contract.
I would love to see Soriano back with the Braves…and I hope it happens…
I think Lackey has a lot more to do with Lowe than Vazquez. We could deal Vazquez at any point but Lowe more than likely could go to a West team or Baltimore who misses out on Lackey.
December 7th, 20092:07 pm
itcouldbeworse, no, it would be awesome to have a set up guy like that, but not at the price tag he will have. Bullpen guys that make that much money are usually closers.
December 7th, 20092:08 pm
CB, Granderson sucks against lefties, and I am not sure if you know this or not, but a lot of the pitchers within our division are lefties. No, we need a right handed bat for sure.
December 7th, 20092:09 pm
Nova, if it does happen, it wont be for long. That is just too much money to spend on the bullpen.
December 7th, 20092:10 pm
“Am I the only one who thinks shorting the game to 6 innings by having soriano in the 7th can be a good thing.”
Having almost 20 mil invested in 3 guys in the bullpen is not worth it. Soriano’s contract needs to be spent on offense!
I just don’t see any way that Soriano accepts arbitration. But if he does, can you imagine the quality of the bullpen if everyone stays healthy: Wagner, Saito, Soriano, Moylan, Medlen. Between that and the starting staff 1 or 2 runs a game from the offensive might be enough.
http://www.fanhuddle.com/atlantabraves <— More commentary than you can shake a tomahawk at.
I long for the 2003 Juiced Braves lineup, lol
December 7th, 20092:11 pm
OJ, No, we need a right handed bat for sure.
no, we just need a good hitter. braves hit lefties just fine in 2009. better than they hit righties, in fact. there is no reason to pursue a player based on what they do against lefties.
December 7th, 20092:12 pm
For twitter, It’s ajcbraves (without the “.”), not ajc.braves. I think it’s just a typo in the blog.
Random, I think it is not a bad trade proposal and I would do it to get that type of power hitter. I just think SD might think they could get more,if they would do it I would still trade Lowe and get his salary off the payroll. I think then you could extend Vazquez and have $ to spare for other things.
December 7th, 20092:13 pm
Jeez, how long does a guy have to be in the uni to not be classified a “rental”, LOL? Can you guys count high enough to figure the number of two-year contracts the Braves have signed in the last decade of so? No one called THOSE guys “rentals”. What, Gonzalez has to promise to sign a lifetime contract to not be a carpetbagger?
December 7th, 20092:14 pm
I think of the two positions that need to be filled, I think one lefty and one righty should be sufficient but I think at least 1 righty is a definite.
DAP braves hit lefties just fine in 2009. better than they hit righties, in fact.
Though not all individual players had that same result…
No, you are not. But what makes you think the Braves can score enough runs for it to matter how “short” the game is?
Our starting pitching is good enough to already make most games a 6 inning game. We just need to score enough runs for them to get us there.
Our starters were taking out in the 6th and 7th innings last year more often than they should have been in order to try and score more runs by PH for them when trailing in the middle innings.
If our offense does it’s job, the current cast of starters will more often than not take us to the 7th inning, leaving Wagner, Saito, Moylan, O’Flare and Medlen to take care of the rest.
IMO, barring injury, no matter what the cost is financially, having Wagner, Saito and Soriano is just overkill. If we had financial flexibility, it would be great to go into the season with that depth and trade for another need from our strength down the road. But we can’t afford to do that.
December 7th, 20092:15 pm
I just have a hard time figuring a team that is laying off employees (Braves), in a sport whose attendance is down across the board (MLB), in an economy that is still in the toilet (and depending on Obama to reverse it) will be doing anything to really help themselves hitting when they have no money to do so. Last year was similar and the only thing they could do was get Garrett Anderson??
Barring trading Lowe to someone for a bag of balls if they don’t have to eat any of his salary – I find it hard to get excited about having a stud bullpen cause entering the 8th inning with only 2-3 runs on the board won’t usually find you in a position to close anything out.
December 7th, 20092:16 pm
N8 (December 7th, 2009 2:05 pm): “But what part of salary restraints for Wren don’t you guys understand?”
Just the first part and the last part.
(I’m also kinda fuzzy about the middle part, too.)
December 7th, 20092:17 pm
Am I the only one who thinks shorting the game to 6 innings by having soriano in the 7th can be a good thing. – itcouldbeworse
If this were the Yankees and their unlimited budget then I would agree with you. If the Braves keep Soriano then that would probably mean no trade for a power hitting outfielder or a below average player playing 1st. No thanks.
December 7th, 20092:18 pm
Stat man, i dont think the braves will head into opening day without acquiring a bat or two, just not going to happen. they could make a bad trade or signing for a bat, but any front office can get SOMETHING during the offseason.
December 7th, 20092:20 pm
OJ, one more Tweet question and then won’t bother you, how do you delete tweet messages?
McFann– That last comment wouldn’t have been a reference to me, would it? Hey, I’m working on my approach against lefties, just need to lay of the Big Mac’s to get more flexible to turn on those inside pitches. Still trying to work off that Thankgiving dinner right now.
December 7th, 20092:21 pm
The ones in your timeline or directly sent to you
If Soriano’s agents haven’t found a team willing to give him better than our arbitration offer, then why should we think he will find that between now and midnight? He is going to accept. No reason to think otherwise.
December 7th, 20092:24 pm
The arbitration offer is for more money than he would get from an other team. But why take a one year offer with a team that you wont close for after having the best year of your career
Makes no sense for him to accept unless their is no interest in him and he’s money hungry.
Everyone is giving their ideas of how all this Hot Stove stuff is all going to go down. What is mine? Glad you asked:
1. Braves will trade multiple prospects to acquire Adian Gonzalez for two years. He is cheap and is great insurance if Freeman’s assention to 1st doesn’t pan out as planned for whatever reason. I know he will be hard to sign after 2011. Worry about that then. Right now I am trying to win the World Series in 2010.
2. If #1 doesn’t work out they will sign LaRoche. These are the two best 1st base options that strengthen or keeps the club strong. Can’t see the Braves not doing one or the other.
3. Lowe will be dealt with the Braves eating 5-6 million of his contract if need be for a prospect or two. Reason, the Braves aren’t going to gamble on Hudson and trade their top-veteran-innings-eating strike-out pitcher. Hudson and Lowe are similar style pitchers. Wren will find a way to get rid of Lowe and acquire some prospects in return thus minimizing the prospects lost to acquire Gonzalez.
4. If Soriano accepts arb he should be told he is too stupid to pitch. That or he should fire his agent.
5. They will extend Vazquez through 2012.
Let’s see what happens. Will I bat 1.000 or will I strike out. Remember Wren listens to me.
December 7th, 20092:27 pm
P’Cola Brave….Atlanta will make it very difficult for him to be happy should he accept arb. He will make more away from Atlanta on a multi-year deal.
N8 (December 7th, 2009 2:05 pm): “Besides. If you think the Padres are giving up Gonzalez even up for JJJ, you’re nutz. They will over-value him just like Towers did Peavy and go for a package of multiple prospects. Maybe none as good as JJJ is now, but they are not doing a one-for-one trade of Adrian Gonzalez.”
Towers who? He gone.
And it wouldn’t be “a one-for-one trade” — it’d be two-for-one.
Four years of Jurrjens for two years of AGonz = 2 fer 1.
December 7th, 20092:28 pm
braves hit lefties just fine in 2009. better than they hit righties, in fact.
Braves LH hitters vs LHP: .251/.317/.381
You can’t get that kind of stink off without a little extra soap, LOL. So, yes, I think handedness might be a consideration for an offseason offensive acquisition.
December 7th, 20092:30 pm
Bobby Cox just said “we have six excellent starting pitchers and to get a hitter we NEED to move one of them.”
Bobby Cox also said “we don’t have a 1B,” adding that Freddie Freeman could play there “if push came to shove” but he’s only 20.
Bobby Cox said “teams are knocking on the door” to trade for second baseman Kelly Johnson, who all but lost his job to Martin Prado.
That’s from Steve Henson on Twitter.
December 7th, 20092:31 pm
am watching the Cubs – Cards ame on mlb network where Ryne Sandyboy smacks 2 hr off Suter
I meant in terms of annual paycheck. He will make close to 8 with Atlanta. He will probably make 6 a year in a multi year deal
December 7th, 20092:32 pm
I totally agree with you that any front office can do SOMETHING – but what if we have a 2nd straight year of the biggest addition being a Garrett Anderson?
We don’t have a first baseman. Our 2nd baseman is a career platooner that had a good enough of a year to merit being played full time – but isn’t that the same scenario that got Johnson the job at first? Yes, so what’s to say Prado doesn’t flame out as quickly as Johnson did?
Now toss in a declining and injury prone Chipper – no right fielder and Diaz in left and (trust me – I’m a fan, but also a realist and it gives me no pleasure saying this) if we have another off season where adding Anderson was the only real offensive move and watching this team play will be as exciting as a 10 year old boy’s soccer game where you aren’t related to anybody playing!
trade McCann and bring up Christian Bethancourt, C :: B/T: R/R Born: 09/02/1991 Ht: 6′2″ Wt: 175
December 7th, 20092:33 pm
Random, I’m aware that Towers is gone. But if you think the current GM (sorry, don’t know his name), won’t over-value their “Chipper Jones” in his prime? Dream on man.
Make no mistake. I think JJJ was our Ace last year. Not Vazquez. I also think that Hanson and JJJ will make the best 1-2 punch in baseball outside of Lincecum/Cain and Carpenter/Wainwright, for the next half decade.
But I also understand that because of how good JJJ is, and under control for so long, that he would bring us a guy like Gonzalez… as the centerpiece of the trade. Not the ONLY piece going to SD.
If Wren is willing to trade JJJ for Gonzalez, and the Padres accept ONLY Jurrjens for him, I’ll send you a bottle of whatever it is you like to drink (I pick the size of the bottle. LOL)
Hopefully Lackey doesn’t sign with LA, Lowe would be their best option for a top of the rotation pitcher. Hopefully that would land us Rivera giving us someone to stick between Chip and McCann
December 7th, 20092:35 pm
OJ, when I added DOB to my twitter list it brings down a bunch of tweets. I added Mark Bowman and it did the same thing. Once you’ve read the tweet is there a way to delete it from you list or home page?
I’m really new at this Twitter thing as you can see
December 7th, 20092:36 pm
Bobby Cox on XM…
December 7th, 20092:38 pm
looks like KJ will be traded this week. thats good news
December 7th, 20092:40 pm
I would be very happy with Granderson in our OF, even if he is a lefty. If not him, I’m guessing Luke Scott or Spilborghs, though Uggla would work if the Fish could be persuaded to trade in their division. If they went Granderson, though, they”l amost have to go righty for 1B which counts out LaRoche… So maybe Uggla in LF and LaRoche at 1B?
December 7th, 20092:43 pm
what would we get for kj a low .200 hitter with little power and no real defensive positon? I guess anything is better than having him on the bench right.
December 7th, 20092:44 pm
Mac, i dont know of a way to limit how many tweets you show on your home page. I checked all settings before and I dont show a way of doing that.
December 7th, 20092:45 pm
If the Braves are to make a move today hopefully they’d trade Kelly Johnson. I don’t know what we’d get in return but that’s almost 3 mil off the books.
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