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2,843 comments Add your comment
ppaddy123
December 8th, 2009
1:53 pm
dpelfrey , I agree if he is signing to be a closer. But he’s not. The Braves made this clear. He will not close. He knew this prior to making his decision. Why penalize the Braves for Soriano’s poor business decision? He could have turned down arbitration and become a free agent closer on the open market. HE CHOSE INSTEAD TO BE THE BRAVES 7th INNING MAN!He should be paid like a 7th inning pitcher!
Justin
December 8th, 2009
1:54 pm
3 way deal done between Tigers D backs and yanks pending physicals.
N8
December 8th, 2009
1:54 pm
“If anybody’s pissed it’s Saito because his contract called for a lot of incentives for games finished meaning I’m sure he was thinking the same thing as Soriano’s people.” wilymo
Which is why Bobby and Wren have essentially stated that they are commited to Wagner and Saito as the #1 and #2 guys out of the pen.
It’s not that difficult to grasp. Soriano if he stays is the 7th inning guy to start the year, and might move up one spot at a time due to injury or the other two not being affective. But let’s not forget about Moylan. He’s earned just as much right to be the 7th or 8th inning guy as Soriano has.
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
1:55 pm
Ryan Church is a good ballplayer, a good guy to have on a team. The arbitration process probably did him in. Does anybody think that Gregor Blanco is better than Church?
The writing was on the wall though.
NS Steve
Can I make a point of clarification. My ideal acquisition would be somebody like Ryan Braun, Matt Holliday or Jason Bay. While I would love for that to happen, I am a realist.
It’s not that I am hell bent on having Nick Swisher on our team, I am not. There has been an argument that he might be a fair return if the Yankees were interested in Derek Lowe. And now with Soriano on board for a while, possibly he could be a trade target again for the Braves.
Otherwise, I would doubt you would ever see us deal say Kelly Johnson and Kris Medlen for Swisher and a prospect.
I don’t think he is a target otherwise.
I would expect Cameron to be more of a target than Swisher. Both have their plusses and minuses.
For similar reasons, Nelson Cruz, Josh Willingham, Jonny Gomes and Juan Rivera could also be targets. None are exactly what we need, but all would make our team better.
Hope that clears it up a bit….. I don’t think we are far off from each others thinking.
abwright
December 8th, 2009
1:57 pm
On “giving it away”
Braves should calculate what it would cost to release Soriano outright versus trading him and eating salary.
Anyway, if Soriano signs a contract for “what he’s worth” (whatever that means), why would the Braves have trouble trading Soriano? He’s a good player with a good contract, in that scenario.
I know others have mentioned it, but, if Braves can trade Saito (who may want to be traded if his ability to get to his incentives has just gone into the crapper), why would they not want to retain Soriano over Saito? We’re not talking about that much difference in their salaries.
DAP
December 8th, 2009
1:58 pm
wayne, if youre thinking, youre already way off from some people.
David O'Brien
December 8th, 2009
1:59 pm
abwright: If you were the Braves, and Francoeur had hit like he’d hit for the previous, oh, 1-1/2 seasons, would you just have held on to him for the rest of the season assuming he would eventually get it turned around? Even when he was a detriment to the offense, and a majority of fans were howling to trade him, bench him or send him to the minors?
And if you did trade him for Church (a better player than most of us thought the Braves would get for Francoeur at the time), would you hang onto Church and pay him more than $3 mill in arbitration next season simply because you had traded away a struggling Francoeur to get him?
I’m just asking, because the equation you presented above seems to indicate surprise at some part of it. And you’re not alone; I’ve seen others express similar thoughts here. I just wonder what you’d have done differently if you were calling the shots.
Because I’ll say when I think Braves made a mistake, like I think they did in offering Soriano arbitration with a potential $8 mill salary they could be stuck with, and then signing Wagner and Saito before they even got to the arbitration decline/accept deadline. But in the case of Francoeur, it’s revisionist history for people to suggest that Francoeur was showing any signs whatsoever of coming out of his extended slump or, any signs that he’d even get it turned around playing in Atlanta. He’s said as much himself — he needed the change of venue and to get away from the pressure of playing in his hometown.
And Church was easily the best player that any team offered for Francoeur in a trade.
RC
December 8th, 2009
1:59 pm
dpelfrey , I agree if he is signing to be a closer. But he’s not. The Braves made this clear. He will not close. He knew this prior to making his decision. Why penalize the Braves for Soriano’s poor business decision? He could have turned down arbitration and become a free agent closer on the open market. HE CHOSE INSTEAD TO BE THE BRAVES 7th INNING MAN!He should be paid like a 7th inning pitcher!
ppaddy123, that’s all well and good, but it’s not the way the system works. And Soriano didn’t “sign to be the Braves 7th inning man”, he accepted arbitration (not signed) to pitch 2010 for the Braves in some capacity and collect whatever salary an arbitration board decides he should make. And knowing the rules of arbitration agreed upon in the collective bargining agreement, as well as the stats that are allowed to be used to argue each sides position, there is a very good chance that Soriano will be paid like an 8th or 9th inning pitcher. That’s just the way the system works, and he knew that when he accepted the offer.
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 8th, 2009
2:00 pm
Wanye,
Church is better than Blanco and Yankees are not interested in Soriano
abwright
December 8th, 2009
2:01 pm
Wayne in Utah, December 8th, 2009, 1:55 pm … “Does anybody think that Gregor Blanco is better than Church?”
Not when Church is healthy. The problem is, Church couldn’t stay healthy and stay on the field. In that case, Gregor Blanco or Jeff Francuoer might be the better players.
O.J.
December 8th, 2009
2:01 pm
DOB, Ok, what would have happened if we left Soriano off the 40 man roster come Rule 5 Draft? Could another team have claimed him? Or how would that work, if at all, lol.
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 2009
2:01 pm
DOB-
I don’t think Soriano gets close to 8 million in an Arb hearing. The guy was 1-6 with 4 blown saves. 1-6, count the loses and he was effective in 28 of the 38 games he pitched or 74% of the time.
tyger
December 8th, 2009
2:02 pm
Braves still fumbling, stumbling…
1. Too much focus on screwing over the players – it always backfires.
2. Spend the money and re-generate some interest in this franchise.
3. You’ve lost fans faster than Michael Vick.
4. The strength of the team has always been the pitching – stick to your fundamentals.
5. Sign Barry Bonds – put your politics aside – and give us something worth paying for.
6. Stop trading away the farm – that was your strength – from Pete Rose to Chipper Jones.
7. Move back to Macon! You abandoned a loyal fan base and haven’t won since.
8. The corporate ownership model has relegated this gloried franchise to mediocrity.
9. Bobby Cox deserves to stay as long as he wishes – he’s not the one always injured.
10. It’s time to part ways with Chipper Jones – what has he done the past 5 years?
ugaaccountant
December 8th, 2009
2:02 pm
I think we can trade him for at least a solid prospect. Would have obviously preferred two draft picks, but a solid prospect works.
If he refuses to be traded, then I say we welcome him in for service. Get another 80 or 90 great innings out of his arm and send him packing after the season. No reason to “make him sit” as several posters have said. Get every inning possible out of him and if that leaves him in a bad spot next offseason it’s his own fault. We told him up front he wasn’t our #1 or #2 reliever. So instead he gets to be our workhorse reliever.
wilymo
December 8th, 2009
2:03 pm
N8,
Where exactly has Bobby said that. The only thing I’ve seen is writing is him talking about how Soriano would make the world’s best setup man. All of this 6th/7th inning talk is from Frank Wren who did everything in his power to dissuade Soriano from wanting to accept arbitration. What do you expect him to say? Especially when he didn’t know what Soriano was going to do and had already signed Saito to a contract. He’d risk alienating Saito if he said, “we’d love to have Soriano back as our setup guy and have Saito pitch the 6th/7th inning” and then have Soriano decline arbitration.
Bobby Cox will use the guys in the situations he sees best. He’s not going to care about salary, who Frank Wren wants him to play, etc. All I know is he thought enough of Soriano to have him the closer and stick with him thru the end of the season. You guys have to realize that everything Frank Wren has said to this point is lip service in order to get Soriano to not want to come back. The arbitration numbers, the role, etc.
David O'Brien
December 8th, 2009
2:03 pm
Wayne: I’m with you on Blanco. But I think the Braves probably believe they can trade him, if not this winter then at some point. And with Church, they’ve not been able to trade him yet and the non-tender date is coming up. So no reason to keep him on 40-man roster and be obligated to pay him an arbitration salary (he was arb-eligible and might get $3 mill or more).
O.J.
December 8th, 2009
2:03 pm
With Granderson in tow, will the Yanks look to trade Swisher and resign Damon, or just not resign Damon?
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
2:04 pm
Dave
From what you saw in the clubhouse, would you think that Ryan Church enjoyed his Braves experience enough to negotiate a lesser contract with them after he goes through the process?
Though he is a lefty, he is a very good outfielder who can play all 3 positions and has at times been a decent bat for other clubs. He seemed to be hitting his stride when he and Yunel had an unfortunate meeting back in ‘08.
Dude might make a good 4th outfielder or platoon partner with Diaz.
SoWeGa Fanatic
December 8th, 2009
2:04 pm
That Frenchy trade really worked out, huh?
Jack Fate
December 8th, 2009
2:05 pm
The big mistake with this Soriano thing was signing Saito. There were few signings prior to the winter meetings, and it seems like we could have possibly gotten Saito after the arbitration acceptance deadline. If not Saito, 3.2 million would surely netted a reliever of his caliber, assuming Soriano wouldn’t have accepted arbitration.
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 8th, 2009
2:06 pm
It’s time to part ways with Chipper Jones – what has he done the past 5 years?
Won a batting title for one.
dpelfrey
December 8th, 2009
2:06 pm
ppaddy123, I see your point. But Soriano’s previous contract was not based on him being a closer. I have no idea what language is in Soriano’s existing contract, so I may be wrong. I just don’t see how the Braves would be allowed to go into the process with a starting point less than his previous contract value. If he sucked it up last year, I could see it, but he was certainly in the top 5% of relievers last year.
Does anyone know his contract, was it 2 years @ $9 million? If so, I could see them starting at $4.5 million.
abwright
December 8th, 2009
2:08 pm
DOB – regarding the JF=RC=0 equation from earlier …
I was making a joke.
The Church for Francoeur trade at least freed up the equation for Diaz to get more playing time. It may have been the single best trade that FW made last year.
I have nothing against Ryan Church or Jeff Francoeur. I hope they both do well in their prospective situations.
However, my joke was just stating that RC’s value to the Braves (in large part due to the arbitration process) had just dropped to nothing (hence the DFA).
I was also indicating that Jeff’s once extremely high stock with the Braves (and Braves fans) had also dropped (or some might say raised) to nothing as well.
ppaddy123
December 8th, 2009
2:08 pm
RC, I think if this thing goes to arbitration, the Braves will argue Soriano had the option to close for another team. It was his decision to take on a “reduced role” with the Braves.
HIS DECISION! Why wouldn’t the Braves argue for a reduced salary?
Bravoman
December 8th, 2009
2:09 pm
OJ,
Probably let Damon go I’d guess
beekay
December 8th, 2009
2:09 pm
Salamander
Your global warming comment made me think of the hypocrites that are at the meeting in Copenhagen…do you realize that 1200 limos were used as well as 140 private planes so far for the meetings. These same people tell us to watch our carbon footprint and buy hybrid cars and for one meeting they have caused more pollution and put more junk in the air than the some of us would put in a lifetime! So much for using public transportation and flying coach. These guys are scaming everyone including the founder of the internet!
Wayne in Utah
December 8th, 2009
2:10 pm
DOB
Yeah, I got the point on why Church was DFA’d. I was basically stating that generally speaking, a team would be better off with him on their roster than Blanco, all else being equal (which it never really is…).
For 1-1.5 million per year, Church would be a great player to have on your team. KJ too for the same level of salary.
Bravoman
December 8th, 2009
2:11 pm
SoWeGa Fanatic,
Yep Francoeur’s gone, so it worked out
Nova Scotia Steve
December 8th, 2009
2:11 pm
glord1 – I think they are many women who would like to be on the Tiger Woods bangwagon!
LOL
wilymo
December 8th, 2009
2:11 pm
dpelfrey,
his contract was 2 yrs 9 mil. 2.4 mil for year one which would have been his final year of arbitration, 6.1 mil for year two which bought out his first year of free agency. $500k signing bonus. The agent will argue to prorate the signing bonus meaning he’d come out at $6.35 mil for last year. It will be hard to argue to split the contract in half (for arbitration purposes) since the second year of the contract bought out his first year of free agency which is arguably a lot more valuable than just buying out an arbitration year.
rico43
December 8th, 2009
2:12 pm
Steve, copyright that word NOW
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 2009
2:13 pm
ppaddy123-
Exactly, when Greenburg accepted Arb he unwittingly established the value for his client. How can he possibly be worth more than Wagner @ 6.75 million. Soriano not only blew 4 saves, he lost 6 games.
David O'Brien
December 8th, 2009
2:13 pm
Tom Waits wears redwings: If an arbitration panel gave the same weight to losses for a relief pitcher that you do, you might have a point. But they don’t. When it comes to his 2009 numbers, they’ll look at the 27 saves, the 1.06 WHIP, the .194 opp average, more than 12 strikeouts per nine innings, etc. Oh, and his $6.1 mill salary last season. He’s going to get a raise through arbitration. Just a matter of whether it’ll be to something closer to $6.5 mill or to $8 mill. I’ll go with the latter figure, you take the former, we’ll see who’s right. Either way, it’s going to be a big number.
O.J., not quite following your question about leaving Soriano off the 40-man. If you leave him off the 40-man, yet you still owe him $7-8 mill for 2010. And another team could claim him and pay him a minimum salary, while the Braves pay him $7-8 mill (his arb-set salary).
dogsbrekky
December 8th, 2009
2:13 pm
NL West will be inriguing next year with the D-Backs pitching staff
Haren
Webb (is he back to start 2010)
Edwin Jackson
Ian “get another go” Kennedy
Bat Masterson
December 8th, 2009
2:13 pm
tyger
5. Sign Barry Bonds – put your politics aside – and give us something worth paying for
What the hell, how long has he been out of baseball? Hell, he was a statue years ago.
MZ
December 8th, 2009
2:14 pm
I’m so sick of all the Swisher advocacy … and, I didn’t have a problem with Church … not that I think they shouldn’t have non-tendered him, but I didn’t have a problem with him, other than him being a high injury risk
DOB ——–
Just got word I’ll be down in New Orleans for 3 days to cover the New Orleans Bowl on the 20th … looks like I’ll get to see Flow Tribe’s Christmas Crunktacular while I’m down as well as cover the Saints-Cowboys game the night before the NO Bowl … yes, the NO Bowl, which is surely to be one of the most exciting bowls of the bunch (Southern Miss vs. Middle Tenn. State, ha)
wilymo
December 8th, 2009
2:15 pm
ppaddy123,
Future role and how the team plans to use you has little to no bearing on what your contract should be for the upcoming year in an arbitration case. For example, Peter Moylan is up for arbitration this year. Had the Braves said, “Peter’s going to be our closer next year” he couldn’t all of a sudden just argue that because the Braves are going to use him as the closer he should be paid like one. They could definitely use that as part of the argument as to why he should be paid more since the Braves really seem to value him, but its still going to come down to service time, comps, and what types of numbers you’ve put up.
MZ
December 8th, 2009
2:15 pm
DOB —-
by the way, in your opinion, what type of return do you see the Braves getting for KJ? they don’t really need relief help … the best I can see is either a prospect or two, or a role player type plus prospect
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 8th, 2009
2:16 pm
What happened to the Soriano for Ludwick buzz?
Do you folks really want Swisher over Ludwick?
wilymo
December 8th, 2009
2:17 pm
Tom Waits, as DOB pointed out w-l record for a relief pitcher isn’t weighted as much as saves for example. And despite blowing 4 saves he was still 27-31 which is closer to a 90% conversion rate. He was technically 27-30 in which he would have actually received a save (one of the blown saves was the 8th inning homer to Sheffield). Frank Wren has already been on record saying anything over 80% is great (in reference to Wagner). For comparison sake, the last time Wagner threw close to a full season in 2008, he was 27-34.
CraZyTRaDeMaN
December 8th, 2009
2:17 pm
abwright
Jeff Francoeur = Ryan Church = NOTHING
No its
Jeff Francoeur = Ryan Church = No Francouer, No Church = More money to get a better right fielder.
David O'Brien
December 8th, 2009
2:18 pm
ppaddy — It doesn’t work that way. At all. Teams can’t argue for a reduced salary because of the intended role they have for a player next season. Come on, man.You know better than that.
In your scenario, what if Wagner got hurt in spring training.Saito, too. And the Braves turned to Soriano as their full-time closer? What, you’d take it to a new arbitration panel at that point, maybe? Set a new salary?
No. Doesn’t work that way. The arb panel will base his salary on what he’s done, both last season and for his career, and his representatives at the hearing will point to every great stat and the Braves will point to every negative one. But his future role won’t be part of the equation when it comes to the arb panel determining his salary.
bravito199
December 8th, 2009
2:18 pm
The guy on the Mlb.com show just said the braves would command a lot more than Swisher for Soriano
chris
December 8th, 2009
2:18 pm
swisher is the yankees right fielder, he wont be traded. and ludwick wont be traded for soriano, period. they will get a mid-level prospect for soriano.
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 2009
2:18 pm
DOB-
I certainly see your point and it’s validity and agree. Just don’t want to see my team screwed twice. However, I think Wren was prepared for this and somehow has planned accordingly. He is one shrewed dude.
AndyC
December 8th, 2009
2:19 pm
I wouldn’t be so quick to praise Soriano’s agent. It’s not clear whether he made a wise decision for his client. If Soriano stays with the Braves and hurts his arm, has a poor season, or a decent/good season but with few saves, his value next year when he is a free agent could be far less than what he could have gotten in total with a two year deal this year. I’m not passing judgement either way, we will have to see how it plays out before we know whether or not it was a good move.
rico43
December 8th, 2009
2:19 pm
I find myself trying to rate the Braves’ trade partners in terms of plausibility; I keep coming back to Angels, Astros, Orioles, pretty much in that order. Anyone feel different?
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 2009
2:20 pm
wilymo-
Thanx for that info, I see the reality even though I may not want to.
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 8th, 2009
2:20 pm
they will get a mid-level prospect for soriano
HAHAHAHA Lmafo!
That’s hilarious!
Bravoman
December 8th, 2009
2:20 pm
bravito199,
Dude I heard that too. These guys are quacks
Salamander
December 8th, 2009
2:20 pm
That Frenchy trade really worked out, huh?
Can you imagine the uproar if Wren had DFA’ed our former RF? Not sayin’ Church was a great plan, but the exit strategy is easier with him (i.e. ATL fans generally don’t care about Church) vs. letting go of old Jeff, which I wager is what would have happened (as opposed to Wren offering Jeff arb).
Beekay, politics (as usual) screw everything up. Good PR and the strong arm of lobbyists seem to always trump good decisions and science. The climate change debate has mushroomed way beyond the academic sphere, and in turn, has become this giant politicized beast directed by a somewhat arbitrary desire to extract retribution against certain types of polluters (power companies), but not other, perhaps equally as important, polluters – namely, the agricultural industry which currently dominates votes and minds.
Bobby's Cox
December 8th, 2009
2:22 pm
Francouer sucked. Diaz is better. Glad he’s gone.
Period.
The Artist Formerly Known as Too Hot For Teacher
December 8th, 2009
2:23 pm
DOB – may have been asked already – but before the arbitration hearing can’t the Braves negotiate a contract with Soriano so it wouldn’t technically ever get to the hearing. If they are trying to win in ‘10 (that’s my motto this year) why not offer him a one year 2 year deal backloaded into next season. So he gets 6 this year and like 8 or 9 next year based on appearances or something.
I know that only punts the problem into next year but a lot can happen between now and then and that would certainly give us a filthy pitching staff – the 5 starters + Medlen, Moylan, Soriano, Saito, Wagner. A staff like that would go a long way to making winners out of ATL which could conceivably lead to more payroll flexibility next year.
Macon Braves (RIP)
December 8th, 2009
2:25 pm
I don’t think Soriano gets close to 8 million in an Arb hearing. The guy was 1-6 with 4 blown saves. 1-6, count the loses and he was effective in 28 of the 38 games he pitched or 74% of the time.
You do realize that your counting some of those games twice. If he blew the save and gave up the go ahead run, that blown save is also a loss.
RC
December 8th, 2009
2:25 pm
ppaddy123,
DOB and wilymo pretty much covered my response. Nobody forced the Braves to offer him arbitration….that was THEIR decision. They may argue that Soriano shouldn’t be paid like a closer because he won’t be, but if they do, they are very likely to lose the case.
Fischerking04
December 8th, 2009
2:25 pm
So could Soriano accepting arb. be a better deal than prospects? Meaning we get a good player for him now instead of prospects that may/may not pan out later?
The Artist Formerly Known as Too Hot For Teacher
December 8th, 2009
2:26 pm
woops – typo – my previous post should simply say “two year deal” I was trying to write two sentences at once
chris
December 8th, 2009
2:27 pm
you wanna bet jurrjens4nlcy? bowman has already stated the braves will likely recieve a mid level propsect for soriano. and as DOB mentioned that it might be hard to move soriano when there is no definite salary number for soriano yet. it might not be hard to move him, but dont expect the braves to recieve much for soriano as well.
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 2009
2:27 pm
Macon Braves (RIP)-
See your point, I was exaggerating to make a point. I just couldn’t get over his inconsistencies. IMO he ain’t worth 6 million, but my opinion means sh!t.
Tomas
December 8th, 2009
2:28 pm
Why not trade Soriano for Nick Swisher. Their salaries are similar, the Yankees need bullpen help and like Soriano, Swisher plays 1B and the OF, hits for power(had 28 homers albeit in Yankee stadium) and he is a switch hitter. It makes sense.
beekay
December 8th, 2009
2:28 pm
Enter your comments here
RC
December 8th, 2009
2:29 pm
Fischerking04,
If nothing else it’ll end up being CHEAPER than if he’d turned down arb. Because instead of spending the money to sign a couple of top 70 draft picks, the Braves will likely get back a player who is already under team control for 6 major league seasons and not have to pay any signing bonus for him (he just won’t be as good of a player).
David O'Brien
December 8th, 2009
2:31 pm
Artist Formerly: Yes, as I suggested earlier today, Braves should probably sign Soriano if they can get him to take something less than the absolute highest potential arb salary they believe he could get. But I don’t know about a two-year deal, not unless you already have a trade worked out with a team that wants to take that on. Because last thing Braves need is to be stuck with a two-year contract for a guy who’s missed a lot of time in three of the past six seasons, and a guy they’ve said they intend to trade.
Justin
December 8th, 2009
2:33 pm
Tomas
December 8th, 2009
2:28 pm
Why not trade Soriano for Nick Swisher. Their salaries are similar, the Yankees need bullpen help and like Soriano, Swisher plays 1B and the OF, hits for power(had 28 homers albeit in Yankee stadium) and he is a switch hitter. It makes sense.
Just to clarify his numbers were alot better on the road than at home 21 homers on the road 8 at home his Avg was also 40 points higher on the road.
Tomas
December 8th, 2009
2:33 pm
The Diamondbacks are really dumb. Gave up Max Schrzer(sorry) to get Ian Kennedy and Edwin Jackson.
The Yankees got Curtis Granderson. And they want to keep Matsui or Damon. That makes Swisher expendable
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
2:34 pm
DOB
Do you know who is on top of the Braves list as far as bats are concerned?
rammerjammer
December 8th, 2009
2:34 pm
Tomas, exactly! Swisher is a good fit on several levels, especially given our fluid situations at 1B and OF in regard to Heyward and Freeman (and LaRoche). Despite what I’m reading, Soriano sure seems to make sense for NY, too. We’ll see soon enough.
N8
December 8th, 2009
2:35 pm
“That Frenchy trade really worked out, huh?”
I was thinking the same thing. Too bad nobody in the Braves organization had the balls to just send him down and let him deal with it.
I was all for ridding ourselves of him from the everyday lineup, because he was hurting the team, but his upside (or possible upside) was still too good to just throw him away for 1/2 a season of Ryan Church.
For every really good move Wren has made, there seems to be a “counter move” in which somebody got the best of him. Whether it be another GM, the player themselves, or an agent of a player.
Depending on how the Lowe/Vazquez and Soriano things play out, it appears that Wren’s only really good move so far that’s going to work out long-term has been the trade for Jair.
There might be another one or two (McLouth perhaps), that I’m not thinking of right now. But all of this just wreaks of desperation to give an old man one last day in the sun, rather than to build a consistently solid, winning ball club like JS and Bobby built in the late 80’s and early 90’s.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it this same kind of gunslinger, shoot from the hip moves (Albert Belle anybody?), that cost Wren his job in Baltimore?
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve liked what Wren has done so far (mostly his non-moves and his boldness in being willing to essentially take a dump on Glavine and Smoltz). But he’s got a big mess to clean up here. We’ll find out what he’s made of in the next few weeks, imo.
Burdell
December 8th, 2009
2:35 pm
What makes more sense for Soriano’s agent? A) play hardball on a contract at $8million and wait until the spring to set a salary or B) negotiate a reasonable contract (say $7.5 million) now so the Braves can trade him to a team in need of a closer or C) negotiate a reasonable contract (say $7.5 million) with incentives to get it to $8 million based on the number of saves and insist the Braves trade him to a team that would use him as a closer (since he basically has a NTC until June).
You have to think Soriano wants to work as a closer. Working as a setup man will drop his value in 2011.
Justin
December 8th, 2009
2:35 pm
Not saying they should trade for Swisher I am just informing everyone he hit a ton better on the road and his number were NOT inflated by Yankee stadium, still think he should be a last resort.
DAP
December 8th, 2009
2:35 pm
The Yankees got Curtis Granderson. And they want to keep Matsui or Damon. That makes Swisher expendable
maybe. maybe instead it makes melky cabrera expendable.
by the way, i think granderson will do really well with the yankees.
Bravoman
December 8th, 2009
2:36 pm
It seems like if the Yanks trade Soriano for Swisher it would cause more problems than it would solve for them because then NY would be inclined to add another OF. Unless they choose to resign Damon which I personally wouldn’t do
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 8th, 2009
2:37 pm
Bobby Cox on MLB.com/Live
bravito199
December 8th, 2009
2:37 pm
When you look at a potential deal for Soriano you have to look at what the Mets gave up for J.J. Putz last year at the meetings.
bravito199
December 8th, 2009
2:38 pm
My bad what the Mariners got for him because I believe it was a 3 team deal
bravito199
December 8th, 2009
2:39 pm
Jurrjens that was from yesterday’s show
The Artist Formerly Known as Too Hot For Teacher
December 8th, 2009
2:39 pm
Appreciate the response DOB-
I guess I’ve still got visions of Jurrjens, Hanson, Vaszquez/Lowe, Kawakami, and Hudson going 5-6 every night and then running out Moylan for the 6th, Soriano for the 7th, Saito 8th, and Wagner 9th. For this season. That’s the only reason I’d lean two year deal with cash backloaded into second season. Win this year and make the more expensive Soriano next year’s problem when potentially we could have a higher payroll or have some folks coming off the books anyway (Vasquez?)
I had not thought of injury history though and that would be a very valid concern with Soriano
ppaddy123
December 8th, 2009
2:39 pm
DOB and everyone else……..most players look forward to their free agency. It’s their payday! My argument is simple: Soriano chose not to use his free agency. HE turned down his payday. The market is already established for free agent closers (Wagner $7MM) If I were the Braves this would be my argument. DOB, your BLOG contains the quotes from Frank Wren stating the 8th and 9th innings were covered. Yet, Soriano still turned down free agency. More and more, this is beginning to look like Soriano is more interested in getting paid in 2010 than being a “stud horse closer”.
Did the Braves act too quickly by signing Wagner and Saito? Seems to me, they set the market price for front line closer and set up man.
FEAR
December 8th, 2009
2:40 pm
If I remember correctly that douche bad pete angelos forced Wren to sign Belle
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 2009
2:40 pm
N8-
First time I’ve really disagreed with you. It hasn’t been that long when we marched out Campillo, Reyes, Morton, James, Parr to be mopped up by Bennett, Carslile, Desenes and any other 34 year old pitcher we could coax out of Mexico. Do you remember?
dogsbrekky
December 8th, 2009
2:41 pm
Matt Diaz – I agree that Diaz should be given a go in LF full time, spend the loot on a big bat at 1st base and either get a RF or let Heyward start
Church(DFA)Man
December 8th, 2009
2:41 pm
… well … at least I can get my unemployment benefits now
TommyP
December 8th, 2009
2:42 pm
Why are people suggesting trading Soriano for a similar contract? Isn’t having that contract the problem in the first place?
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 2009
2:42 pm
FEAR-
That and many other complications for Wren in Baltimore.
Ryan H.
December 8th, 2009
2:42 pm
DOB
Do you know who is on top of the Braves list as far as bats are concerned?
That is the same thing I would like to know, who is on top of the wish list???
Jurrjens4NLCY
December 8th, 2009
2:43 pm
bravito,
What show?
Justin
December 8th, 2009
2:44 pm
TommyP
December 8th, 2009
2:42 pm
Why are people suggesting trading Soriano for a similar contract? Isn’t having that contract the problem in the first place?
No the problem is not being able to use the money on a bat so if they can get a good hitter for soriano it uses that money for a hitter and solves the problem.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 8th, 2009
2:44 pm
Did anyone actually watch Wagner pitch closely last season???
I’m hearing from Red Sox fans that there are reasons the BoSox didn’t try to resign Wags.
Or are they just upset because we took Wagner and Saito.
Who’s going to be 40 BTW…
Tomas
December 8th, 2009
2:44 pm
Just saw a twitter post by Joel Sherman saying the Yankees like Soriano but have no desire on trading for him.
Cardinals should be desperate for some help in the pen. Maybe a Ludwick for Soriano swap? Ludwick drove 97 runs and plays the OF, hits right handed. He is arb eligible and probably wil get 6 -7 million, so it fits.
RC
December 8th, 2009
2:44 pm
The Braves are discussing righty Derek Lowe with multiple teams, MLBTR has learned. In an article yesterday, MLB.com’s Mark Bowman suggested Lowe could be viewed as a cheaper, more durable alternative to John Lackey. Lowe is owed $45MM over the next three years. – Tim Dierkes of MLBTraderumors
I’m listening….
Greg O
December 8th, 2009
2:45 pm
For all the Soriano to the Yanks talk, I think Gonzo is now far more likely to be who the Yankees target. I don’t know if I’m reading entirely too far into this, but with the trade of bullpen lefty Phil Coke in the Granderson deal, I assume the Yankees will sign Gonzo and the Braves will get the last pick in the first round (if the Yankees don’t sign any more highly-ranked Type A free agents – big if). There’s not an incredibly strong crop of lefties on the free-agent market and I can’t imagine the Yankees are completely sold on Michael Dunn, who they refused to include in the deal but only has four big-league innings under his belt. I doubt the Yankees are comfortable with a bullpen which has lefties Damaso Marte (he of the near 10.00 ERA last season) and Michael Dunn.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
2:45 pm
Trade rumors just listed that we are talkin with several teams bout Lowe but didn’t give destinations. Wish their was a little more insight on that.
RC
December 8th, 2009
2:46 pm
Anyone know how old Saito is going to be next year?
Tomahawk Talk
December 8th, 2009
2:46 pm
yeah maybe KJ and Soriano for Ludwick…that sounds kinda familiar.
Patrick
December 8th, 2009
2:47 pm
from mlbtraderumors.com:
The Braves are discussing righty Derek Lowe with multiple teams, MLBTR has learned. In an article yesterday, MLB.com’s Mark Bowman suggested Lowe could be viewed as a cheaper, more durable alternative to John Lackey. Lowe is owed $45MM over the next three years.
THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT-GOODBYE DEREK!
Nova Scotia Steve
December 8th, 2009
2:47 pm
RC – ‘Anyone know how old Saito is going to be next year?”
Hold on…I’ll check
GboroBravo
December 8th, 2009
2:47 pm
Multiple Teams Discussing Derek Lowe
By Tim Dierkes [December 8 at 1:42pm CST]
The Braves are discussing righty Derek Lowe with multiple teams, MLBTR has learned. In an article yesterday, MLB.com’s Mark Bowman suggested Lowe could be viewed as a cheaper, more durable alternative to John Lackey. Lowe is owed $45MM over the next three years.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 8th, 2009
2:48 pm
40
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 2009
2:48 pm
N8-
And what ever happened to Julio Taveras? Come on guy, Wren has put this organization in a much better place. Maybe not as quickly as you’d like, but I remember 2008 like it was yesterday – a nightmare.
P'cola Brave
December 8th, 2009
2:48 pm
Ludwick probably wont be moved with ankiel and Holliday both probably leaving St. Louis