12:46 am December 7, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 8th, 200912:26 pm
What is the deal with many wanting Milton Bradley? All the press I’ve ever heard about him is that he is in need of anger management and is a public relations nightmare. Exactly the type player the Braves org. has shyed away from.
December 8th, 200912:27 pm
Dave: haven’t heard anything at the meetings yet on LaRoche. Are you surprised there is so little interest in him? Would the Braves like him back at 6-7 per? What do you see KJ fetching in a trade?
Surely to God Soriano doesn’t want a non-closer or possibly even a non-set up job out of the pen before he hits FA again like he’d apparantly have in Atlanta. I’m not worried about them finding somwhere to trade him. Only thing is that we might be waiting that much longer to find out who they’re targeting for their offense because Wren will be consumed with trying to nt only trade Soriano but Lowe at the same time. We could be playing the waiting game well into January/February on that bat.
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 200912:31 pm
Now I read that Brad Penny is close to a deal that could be worth 9 million/year and that Lackey already rejected an 18 million/year contract. Does anybody really think that a market for Lowe does not exsist?
December 8th, 200912:32 pm
Like they’re going to get anything for Kelly anyways. I understand it’s to get rid of his salary, but you’d be lucky to get a decent RP/bench player for him. Now him packaged in a trade could be a different story.
December 8th, 200912:33 pm
By accepting The Braves arbitration offer, Soriano also accepted the role of pitching in the 7th inning. The Braves made it clear leading up to The Winter Meeting this would be his role. I think The Braves will argue this fact at arbitration. I’m sure his agent will argue differently, but by accepting arbitration, Soriano basically told the entire Baseball World, “I want to pitch the 7th inning in Atlanta!”
December 8th, 200912:34 pm
DOB (December 8th, 2009 12:17 pm): “18 Wheels: Yes, Braves could trade him and let other team work out the arbitration, provided Soriano approved of the deal. But why would another team trade for him before knowing the salary? Braves seem to think it’ll be $6.5-7 mill, but plenty of us think it’ll be closer to $8 mill.”
Might it not be possible that a potential trade partner would prefer to negotiate Soriano’s salary themselves rather than sitting back and accepting the Braves’ negotiation?
Voice from the past...
December 8th, 200912:37 pm
Random, I completely agree. If I were a team interested in him as a FA, I’d surely be interested in trading for him now. It’s much easier to negotiate a contract when you have exclusivity, and without draft pick compensation.
December 8th, 200912:38 pm
ppaddy123 (December 8th, 2009 12:33 pm): “By accepting The Braves arbitration offer, Soriano also accepted the role of pitching in the 7th inning. The Braves made it clear leading up to The Winter Meeting this would be his role. . . . by accepting arbitration, Soriano basically told the entire Baseball World, “I want to pitch the 7th inning in Atlanta!””
I think that there are many more levels to Soriano’s decision than you currently acknowledge.
December 8th, 200912:39 pm
And why would Sori turn down a trade? It won’t affect his arb outcome or his 2010 paycheck. It’ll only affect his bullpen role, which will not be glamorous in Atlanta. Frank will see to that.
ppaddy123 — And make that sometimes the 6th inning. Sure it creates some work for FW that he didn’t expect but it also creates added opportunities to work deals. I don’t see how this helps Soriano in the end, but I do think the Braves may benefit by the time spring training rolls around.
December 8th, 200912:40 pm
I was thinking the same thing Random. Like a team may trade for him, and then make him a two year offer that was better than he was recieving, but at a better bargain for them than the one year arbitration fueld offer.
Especially if that team is going to make him their closer.
December 8th, 200912:43 pm
if Soriano goes to arbitration versus the Braves the Braves have no motivation to hold back during that hearing. I would expect it to be a nasty one.
This Just In: (Well not just)
Soriano requested a trade, and the Yankees are NOT interested…
I think Soriano goes to arbitration, unless Wren comes close to matching what Soriano believes he’ll get through arbitration.
Will the Braves be able to move Soriano without eating a portion of his salary? If it’s $8 million, I think the Braves may need to eat a couple million to move him.
Best time to move Soriano? Prior to the 2010 season because his 2009 numbers give him higher value. Next best time? Trade deadline in August, provided he’s been pitching well. Even as a middle inning reliever, if his numbers are good, Wren could probably leverage him for a fair return.
December 8th, 200912:44 pm
Soriano has NOT requested a trade yet. Where did you hear that?
Bottom line… this Soriano has been a pain in the ass from the time they got him from the M’s. Injuries, bizarre disappearances to his homeland, mysterious injuries, etc. This guy is a NUT!
December 8th, 200912:50 pm
Wow a lot going on around here. Some great trade rumors. I’m glad we get to talk about MFIKY all day and not getting a big bat or even hearing any kind of potential names. Interesting stuff.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 8th, 200912:51 pm
Are most here in favor of trying to get Nick Swisher???
It’ll only affect his bullpen role, which will not be glamorous in Atlanta. Frank will see to that.
That might be a double-edged sword, though. Reduce Soriano to low-leverage game situations, and then try to package him as a high-leverage guy worth a decent trade return? That might be some iffy spin, LOL.
I think we might as well get used to seeing the guy around until January or February; Wren probably needs to see a little perspiration and consternation among the potential trade partners, if he wants some return.
Of course, now that I have that in print, Wren will trade that sumbee tomorrow, LOL.
December 8th, 2009
My point exactly………The Braves let Soriano’s role with the team be known before he turned down his arbitration. If I (just me, my opinion) were representing The Braves on this matter, I would argue that Soriano doesn’t want to close and shouldn’t be paid accordingly.
December 8th, 200912:53 pm
Well at least my Packers are playing great football and poised for a big postseason run. Offense really starting to come alive and defense is one of the top in the league. Go Pack, G Force, Green and Gold all the way.
December 8th, 200912:56 pm
My mistake, I should’ve said WILL, anyway here’s the source:
You have to be an insider:
December 8th, 200912:57 pm
Jurrjens, yeah, i read that on MLBTraderumors.com as well, saying that they were giving indications that he will ask.
December 8th, 200912:58 pm
Winner of Most Impacted By Arbitration competition: LaTroy Hawkins. Rockies & Braves were both interested.
What’s that about???
December 8th, 200912:59 pm
By all reports, the Braves are going to have to eat a portion of Lowe’s contract to move him. What does anyone think? Close to $5 million per season?
If Wren moves Soriano prior to the season, might the Braves not have to eat a share of his salary? As stated previously, say $2 million of an $8 million contract.
Puts the Braves in the hole an additional $7 million, correct? The team still needs a power bat and first baseman. If Wren wants LaRoche back, he’s probably ticketed at $8 million – $9 million range. A decent power bat: $5 million plus?
Might mean downgrading on a first baseman in order to have the dough for a power bat.
The top brass should give Wren budget wiggle room. Would make all the difference.
Say no to Swisher
December 8th, 20091:02 pm
Can you post the entire part of Buster’s article that relates to Soriano?
bravoman…why? what would be the reasoning? are you honestly expecting someone better? please…enlighten us. i really do hate unfounded answers.
December 8th, 20091:05 pm
Why would we have to eat any of Lowe’s contract? If Randy Wolf can get 3 years and more than Tim Hudson sounds like a desperate market out there. If anything this looks like the return will be bigger than expected but only time will tell.
December 8th, 20091:06 pm
Per Bill Shanks’ Twitter: Ryan Church DFA by Braves
December 8th, 20091:08 pm
I say forget Swisher and Cameron, would rather go with the young guys than deal with them.
jeff r By all reports, the Braves are going to have to eat a portion of Lowe’s contract to move him. What does anyone think? Close to $5 million per season?
maybe $5-6mil total. i bet thats as much as they take on, if any.
Two new stories to pass along:
* Ryan Church has been DFA’d
* Soriano and Lowe being sought by the Angels
December 8th, 20091:09 pm
Jeff R: “By all reports, the Braves are going to have to eat a portion of Lowe’s contract to move him.”
Respectfully, “by all reports” is not accurate. There are those who feel the Braves have a chance to move his contract in its entirely. Mark Bowman wrote something to that effect just the other day.
That said, there is also good chance that they will end up eating a portion of his salary. But I highly doubt the Braves would eat as much as 5 million per season. I tend to think it would be more in the 2-3 mill per season neighborhood.
In regard to Soriano, I don’t think the Braves will have any real trouble trading him. Before they would ever consider eating any of his salary, they would likely sign him to a 2-year deal similar to the one he just completed (so they can back-load it a bit and keep the cost down this year). But I don’t think either of those scenarios are likely. I think he’ll be dealt without much trouble.
I am sure glad that Wren doens’t listen to the folks on here, at least most of them. Our team would really suck!
That comment (Winner of Most Impacted By Arbitration competition: LaTroy Hawkins. Rockies & Braves were both interested.) means that LaTroy Hawkins were both expressing interest in signing LaTroy Hawkins. But, both the Rockies and Braves had relievers (Betancourt and Soriano) that unexpectedly accepted arbitration. Therefore, both teams are unlikely to negotiate with Hawkins until they determine their ultimate plans for both.
I say no to Swisher too…
Althought DAP and Wayne in Utah and other seem to think this is the guy we should be going after…,
I don’t like him
December 8th, 20091:10 pm
By all reports, the Braves are going to have to eat a portion of Lowe’s contract to move him. What does anyone think? Close to $5 million per season?
I wouldn’t say that “all reports” say they are going to have to eat some of his salary. My guess is actually that once teams start seeing what it’s going to cost to sign Lackey, the Braves will be able to trade Lowe without eating any salary. I mean, Randy Wolf is looking at $30 million guaranteed, and Lowe is a FAR superior pitcher.
December 8th, 20091:11 pm
^ Wow buthcered the heck out of that comment. Correction: It means that *BOTH TEAMS* were expressing interest in signing LaTroy Hawkins. Although it would be interesting if LaTroy Hawkins was intersting in signing himself.
Got a source for Soriano and Lowe being sought by the Angels?
December 8th, 20091:12 pm
That is really, REALLY strange. The “Name” field is auto-filled right now as “KC”, as it always is… but my last post went up under “RC”. Hmmm…
Where did you find that info about the Angels?
December 8th, 20091:13 pm
Today is just not my day. Proof-reading skills are an all-time low.
Interested to see if the Braves are linked to any potential deals by the end of the day, but I’m starting to doubt anything gets done this week. The market for starting pitching needs to develop quite a bit more than I think it will in a couple of days
December 8th, 20091:14 pm
N.S. Steve may have coined a great new word at 11:59.
“bangwagon” I love that!
Look up the definition of a douche in the dictionary & there’s a picture of Nick Swisher. Mohawk wearing, silly MF’er. I wouldn’t want to look at him everyday when he’s up at the plate with that fat dip tucked under his lip looking to the heavens before every pitch. Silly I tell ya.
Maclee31, the source is “The Daily Unicorn Gazette”, I’m guessing. =)
December 8th, 20091:15 pm
Juan Rivera is the guy. We just need to make the numbers work.
If the Angels want them (Lowe/Soriano), then I’d say Rivera will be holding a Turner Field press conference before Christmas.
December 8th, 2009
Yeah…….you read that here, didn’t you?
Sign 2 more Closers to go with Wagner, Saito, Soriano and Moylan TRADE Lowe, Vazquez and Kawakami for Hitters, and Let Hanson, Jurjens, and Hudson pitch Three Innings every Three Days.
Seriously, DO it for Bobby Cox, keep Soriano if nothing else for insurance. If the money is there, this is a great Problem to have.
December 8th, 20091:17 pm
TnBrian said what I was thinking regarding Swisher
December 8th, 20091:18 pm
I love reading truly insane ideas from time to time. car3boogie, you made me smile. I was shaking my head and worrying about you, but I was smiling. Your last sentence is right on the money, though.
December 8th, 20091:23 pm
HHMMM I wonder why the Angels would be interested in Soriano and Lowe?????? The big elephant in the room suggests they want to rid themselves of Garry Matthews JR –
Saito will be 40 in Feb.
i hope those rumors of Angels are true. I could see us eating some of their contracts in return for Rivera.
nova scotia I say no to Swisher too…
and no one saying “NO” has a very good reason. i think swisher would be excellent, if we can get him. cameron too.
December 8th, 20091:24 pm
the Tigers want Phil Hughes and Austin Jackson for Granderson?
the rumors of the angels are false. sorry guys
One thing I think is for sure & that is the Angels ain’t outbidding the Yanks or the Red Sox for Lackey. I could be wrong because the LAA aren’t what you would call a “poor” organization, but they have some serious competition & they’ll get outbid. That’s going to leave Lowe as their next best option aside from Halladay & even non Angel fans know how picky they are about giving away good prospects. Lowe goes to LAA in a package for Rivera. Makes too much sense for me.
December 8th, 20091:25 pm
Where are these Angel Rumors!
KC… appreciate the insights. I certainly hope you’re right.
December 8th, 20091:27 pm
DAP…I think if you read…there are quite a few people who don’t want Nick Swisher in ATL…
But hey…at the end of the day…we no choice in the matter if he does or doesn’t
The Ghost of Keith Lockhart
If the trade market for Soriano is not to the Braves liking, what about signing him to a backloaded two year deal? (three years, as some have suggested, would be unnecessary) 2 yrs @ 12m million: 4 million in ‘10 and 8 million in ‘11. With Saito and Wagner coming off the books, Sori could close in 2011 at, if not a bargain, certainly a non-budget-crippling salary for a good closer. I think Soriano would at least consider that deal
December 8th, 20091:30 pm
You guys are so smart, how about poker Saturday night?
1. Soriano gets his big payday guaranteed whether you trade him or not.
2. Otherwise, he was stuck with half the money for a longer period.
3. My chance of injury is reduced dramatically if they don’t play me.
4. I’ll take my $8M this year and next – thank you very much.
5. Gonzalez nor Wagner have pitched very much in the last year or two.
Tomahawk1310: Another Packers fan on here!!! Good to see that we are out in force all over the place!
December 8th, 20091:31 pm
nova scotia DAP…I think if you read…there are quite a few people who don’t want Nick Swisher in ATL…
uh…yeah. and like i said. not one of them has given a good reason. most dont give a reason at all, a couple of guys have said hes a dbag because he has a mohawk and dips, and you say you dont like him because he has a career BA of .245, although you said you like cameron, who has a career .250 BA.
December 8th, 20091:32 pm
I can’t. I’m not an insider either, but here is the gist of it from MLBTR
“Olney writes of indications that Rafael Soriano will request a trade from the Braves, as GM Frank Wren suggested before the player accepted arbitration. J.C. Bradbury credits Soriano’s agent Peter Greenberg for finding a way around draft pick compensation. MLB.com’s Mark Bowman does not think it will be difficult to trade Soriano, though Joel Sherman tweets that the Yankees are not interested. “
December 8th, 20091:34 pm
I can assure you guys that Soriano will not be behind Saito on the depth chart. They have good information that he’ll be the setup guy and backup closer. All of that 6th/7th inning stuff was posturing to dissuade Soriano from accepting. Bobby’s trying to win, he couldn’t care any less if FW has a problem with it or not. It’s his last year here. Soriano hasn’t requested a trade yet and he has no reason to accept one unless its to his liking (i.e. closer role or some sort of guaranteed deal) because he has a lot better chance to unseat Wagner or be used in a platoon than say Rivera or Papelbon.
The Ghost of Keith Lockhart, I don’t think it’s in The Braves best interest to offer that kind of money to Soriano. I think if this DOES GO to arbitration, The Braves will argue for a pay cut!Soriano put HIMSELF in this position by accepting the arbitration offer from the Braves.
December 8th, 20091:37 pm
Yanks, Tigers, D’Backs Blockbuster Close to Completion
A deal that would send Edwin Jackson to Arizona and Curtis Granderson to New York is close to completion says Ken Rosenthal, Buster Olney, Ed Price, and MLB.com writer Steve Gilbert.
December 8th, 20091:38 pm
If anybody’s pissed it’s Saito because his contract called for a lot of incentives for games finished meaning I’m sure he was thinking the same thing as Soriano’s people. That there will be save opps due to either Wagner’s health and inability to go multiple days in a row or ineffectiveness. I’ll bet that they were assured by FW that Soriano wouldn’t be accepting arbitration.
Rafael Soriano’s agent seems to have made the most bizarre of choices for his client. I don’t fault Frank Wren for having offered arbitration because what he thought would happen was the most logical scenario…that Soriano, having been thru elbow surgeries would elect to sign the longest, highest dollar value contract he could to be a 9th inning pitcher for someone. That would have ruled out accepting arbitration. Soriano has essentially surrendered all the freedoms that come with free agency (being able to shop around for the best location and price). Now all the choice belongs to the Braves. They now can shop him to the highest bidder trade-wise. I just don’t see the angle here for Soriano. He surrenders everything, including his status as closer, and gets at most a $1.5 million dollar raise. How is $1.5 million for one season and not knowing your ultimate destination, better than a two year deal at a minimum of $12-14 million total and choosing your spot? Crazy.
The Braves will come out okay with this situation regardless of what they do (trade him, keep him or release him at a slight % loss). Not so sure Soriano’s agent will come out okay. If I’m considering perspective agents, I’m steering clear of this dude.
I wonder what it would take to get Rivera or Morales…
I just heard a rumor that Church was non-tendered…anybody else hear this?
December 8th, 20091:39 pm
N.S. Steve may have coined a great new word at 11:59. “bangwagon” I love that!
Isn’t that the model of car that Tiger Woods has been driving? Sorry couldn’t resist.
Swisher=Trash. I hope we don’t waste our time on trying to get him. That would be a mistake.
December 8th, 20091:40 pm
Don’t see how the Braves could substantiate a pay cut for Soriano to start the arb. hearing. I’m sure on all the rules of the arb. process, but I’m pretty sure the mediator (official term?) wouldn’t start any hearings until the Braves came with a reasonable starting offer. I don’t see how the season Soriano had could justify anything less than what he made last year.
Go to the Halo site at scout.com.
Oh, and for those wondering why the Angels would want Soriano…remember the playoffs last year and the ineffectiveness of Fuentes, that coupled with sending Arredondo back to Triple-A. They have the need for both pitchers. The real question is, what can the Braves get in return without having to chip in a boat load of money?
December 8th, 20091:42 pm
Here is the text of the ESPN Insider report as it relates to the Soriano situation:
1. The Braves now have a budget problem on their hands after Rafael Soriano accepted their offer of arbitration. They had hoped that Soriano would turn down arbitration so that they would be set up for draft picks, but as it stands, Soriano took a bite out of the money that they intended to spend on some hitters. It figures that Soriano will ask for a trade now, but the Braves might have difficulty moving him without eating a sizable chunk of his salary. Braves GM Frank Wren told reporters that this development would not alter their team-building for 2010; it probably just complicates it.
There are already indications that Soriano will ask for a trade, which would require his approval if it were to happen before June 15.
chipper was just dfa’d to make room for albert pullholes, who was then, in turn, traded to the hanshin tigers for matt murton.
Is it possible that Rafael Soriano has an undisclosed injury and wouldn’t pass a physical that any new team would administer before finalizing a deal? And he wouldn’t have to pass a physical to accept arbitration…right?
smitty, It’s not a rumor. We had to make room for Soriano, so somebody had to go.
Braves 4 Life
The Soriano Rumor and Link:
“Olney writes of indications that Rafael Soriano will request a trade from the Braves, as GM Frank Wren suggested before the player accepted arbitration. J.C. Bradbury credits Soriano’s agent Peter Greenberg for finding a way around draft pick compensation. MLB.com’s Mark Bowman does not think it will be difficult to trade Soriano, though Joel Sherman tweets that the Yankees are not interested.”
We are starting to roll at exactly the right time. The offense is giving Aaron time to throw and he is getting rid of the ball quickly when they don’t. He is an elite QB and the rest of the league is starting to take notice. The defense looks better every game and has learned Capers defense much quicker than anyone expected. Matthews is relentless and we are seeing a star LB in the making. 7 sacks as a rookie and he wasn’t playing much in the beginning of the season. I’m glad we traded up to get him…great move. This team is going to be dangerous come playoff time.
December 8th, 20091:43 pm
Agree w/ you completely, and not only that, but IF Soriano stays…he completely ruins his FA value for the following season pitching in the 7th inning…Its over for him unless he gets traded.
Yes Ryan Church was DFA’d:
“To make room for Soriano on 40-man, Braves DFA’d Ryan Church.”
- Mark Bowman
The Braves designated outfielder Ryan Church for assignment, tweets Bill Shanks. The move was done to make room for Rafael Soriano, who accepted arbitration last night. Church had been considered a non-tender candidate anyway.
“How is $1.5 million for one season and not knowing your ultimate destination, better than a two year deal at a minimum of $12-14 million total and choosing your spot?”
Who offered Soriano a two-year deal at a minimum of $12-14 million total?
December 8th, 20091:45 pm
Just got out of BBWAA meeting. Might have already been posted, but RYAN CHURCH has been designated for assignment by Braves to open spot on 40-man roster.
(OK, after I posted that I read recent comments and see it’s been posted a few times. Braves made the announcement nearly an hour ago, but we were in meeting.)
December 8th, 20091:46 pm
When is the Rule V draft? Or did it already happen?
WOW…looking at it, it seems the Tigers may have won the 3-way trade.
They will receive Scherzer, Schlereth, Austin Jackson, and Phil Coke.
Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy will go to Arizona.
“Braves making it known they won’t just give Soriano away.”
- Mark Bowman
December 8th, 20091:47 pm
Sounds like KJ will be traded in the next few days, but what are the rumors on Church? I know they have 10-days to try and trade him before he has to be released, but any idea what teams might be interested (or if they are willing to make a trade)?
DAP I would venture to guess that those who are opposed to Swisher don’t want him here because he’s cocky AND he’s a Yankee. Just my opinion but if he still played for the A’s those same people would be talking about how he’s a spark plug and he could fill a big hole for us. But the fact that he was the same loud, somewhat obnoxious guy wearing pinstripes he is automatically a douche.
I don’t mind either way to be honest. If he helps the Braves get to the playoffs I’m all for it.
December 8th, 20091:48 pm
In my opinion, Greenberg’s making a bold play. If this works, he will surely attract a lot of new clients who may have contracts expiring before the next CBA takes place. Agents hate the draft pick compensation rules because it adds an additional cost/deterrent to a team signing their player, which sort of defeats the concept of a true “free agent.”
I wonder if this is part of an overall push from the player’s association for eliminating the draft pick compensation in the next CBA? It definitely sends a message to the owners, that’s for sure. Too bad it couldn’t happen to some other free agent on some other team.
I bet Selig’s stomach is churning over this and what it does to his “competitive balance” goals.
Either way, I’m for getting rid of the compensation. The teams it’s supposed to help can’t afford to sign first-rounders anyway. They really need a structured bonus system based on draft order.
NC Braves Fan
December 8th, 20091:50 pm
“Braves making it known they won’t just give Soriano away.”
Exactly! They’ll also likely kick in some money in the deal.
December 8th, 20091:52 pm
Jeff Francoeur = Ryan Church = NOTHING
Lowe and Soriano to LA Angels. If anyone can make it happen Wren can
O.J., the Rule 5 draft is Thursday morning….
As for Church, wouldn’t expect the Braves to get much if anything for him. No team is going to give up any significant talent for a guy who’s about to be non-tendered. Haven’t heard any specific teams interested in him here, but that’s probably because even if there are teams, that’s such a minor thing that teams interested wouldn’t even think to leak the info.
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