12:46 am December 7, 2009, by David O'Brien
December 8th, 200910:32 am
wren discussed the ideal player for the braves, not in terms of name, but in terms of skill set, would be a power bat that could play multiple positions. do you have any specifics on some names? have the braves shown any interest in xavier nady or troy glaus? both had injury plagued years last year and would probably come with a small price tag. both can play first. troy can spell chipper at 3rd. nady can play a regular corner, then first on days that glaus either sits or plays 3rd. the two of them combined seem ideal fits for the braves who would probably like to introduce heyward slowly to mlb (considering his youth and injury woes the past few year) giving him maybe 400-450 at-bats next year.
December 8th, 200910:35 am
(Well, most of them are human, I assume.)
Depends on whether or not Scott Boras is their agent, LOL. Since many fans believe Boras is Satan Incarnate, his players probably become demons upon retaining him.
December 8th, 200910:37 am
Not to say it’s “global warming” or whatever. Just saying. Heard some things that the reason why it’s so cold is because the ice caps are melting at such an alarming rate that it’s putting ice molecules into the air.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that there is not very good science goin’ on in this here statement.
It might be cold where you live, but in Atlanta, it has been a mild proto-winter so far, as it was last year and in previous years. The point is that weather/temperature are relative, and there are countless reasons why one region experiences colder weather than another, and these factors don’t necessarily have anything to do with anthropogenic inputs to the atmosphere.
Also, if you want to look for possible explanation for why your region is so cold (beyond normal temperature fluctuations that occur over the decades/centuries) research particulate matter. As we pump more material into the atmosphere, an increasing amount of solar radiation is reflected back into space. In fact, some climate researchers suggest that Earth is cooler than it “should be” because of increased cloud cover/pollution that blocks incoming insolation.
Not a completely cohesive theory either, but there is literature out there detailing the impact of particulate matter on the atmosphere if you’re interested in diving deeper into global systems and possible explanations for cooler temperatures.
Also – I’m not an expert! Do not take my word as gold. Research this stuff yourself.
Wayne in Utah
I like the possible upside of both Nady and Glaus, but there is a definite downside to both, coming off the injuries they have endured.
Those two guys would work out great if we had more confidence in our outfield; Heyward’s ability to go north with the club in April, Diaz ability to hold down a starting position without his numbers slipping, or Schafer making it out of the gate.
Personally, I would think that Swisher, Cameron or Byrd might fit more into the Braves plan. Maybe one of those three and maybe 1 of Nady, Glaus or Delgado?
Nova Scotia Steve
December 8th, 200910:39 am
Saito is 40
DOB- Great work on the Soriano situation.
I have two questions: 1)How does holding onto Soriano improve his trade value since all the Braves were looking for was a draft pick compensation anyway, seems that his value is greater for the Braves to move him than any real compensation.
2) As you have stated, if the Braves are willing to “absorb Soriano’s contract” for the first couple of months and still go after the offensive players this team needs then there is no need for anyone to panic. How does Wren respond to this question and do you think he is blowing smoke?
3) Does this make moving Lowe more or less viable, since theoreticall we would have to eat some of his salary in a trade?
December 8th, 200910:40 am
Excuse me Saito will be 40 in February
I know I said two questions, then asked three sorry about that.
December 8th, 200910:41 am
I know we aren’t supposed to talk about such on here, but I just get tired of folks saying “It’s this or it’s that, and anybody that questions that is a retard.”
Heck, I think it was the early 70’s when the prevailing thought was that we were headed for an ice age.
Man is destroying the earth?????? Is that kinda like the flea destroying the dog???
Long night for a Braves fan. Thanks for always being there for us, David!
December 8th, 200910:43 am
MFIKY – give me the money baby
RIP John Lennon, 29 years ago today he was gunned down in his prime
December 8th, 200910:44 am
So the Brewers offered Wolf more than Hudson’s 3/28M! That should give you an idea what Vazquez is worth on the market, for he surely is more valuable than Wolf.
December 8th, 200910:45 am
Lew- In response, to your post about the sky falling. I agree with what you are saying, on the condition that it is true that Liberty will allow the flexibility in salary for this year. If so, then not a big deal, potential advantage to the Braves, if not, then could really hamstring our off season moves, and I would hate for Bobby’s last season to have so much mid season transition again.
I don’t know how to feel about what Liberty and Wren say about payroll flexibility, but I am hopeful that they are telling the truth.
December 8th, 200910:46 am
RC, re your 10:00, what might the Braves think constitutes a “reasonable offer”, though? They offered the guy arb in the hopes of getting relatively high draft picks for him, so I doubt that they will give him away for low-upside prospects.
ncscoots, I agree with you that the Braves hoped to get high draft picks for him. But that scenario is off the table now, so their judgment of what they should “get” for him might be signficantly different.
Let’s say that Soriano’s “value” is a constant that doesn’t change as a result of accepting arb, and let’s say that value = S. Here is the situation teams were looking at prior to Soriano accepting arb:
S = C + D, where C = contract offers prior to arb and D = draft pick.
Now that he’s accepting arbitration, the equation has changed to:
S = A + T, where A = arbitration award and T = trade pieces the Braves want in return.
I think we are all in agreement at A > C, since if it wasn’t Soriano had nothing to gain by accepting arbitration. Because of this, we know that D > T, since C + D = A + T. So what the Braves should be looking for in a trade is T = C + D – A (the value of a draft pick minus the $$ difference between the arbitration award and the contract Soriano would have gotten on the open market). Basically, Soriano found a way to translate some of the value of a draft pick for the Braves into money for himself.
December 8th, 200910:47 am
Marc C: Yes, they’d need his consent to move him before June 15, regardless.
December 8th, 200910:48 am
I am hearing that the Soriano move has really hamstrung the Braves budget, and now they are thinking about trading BOTH Lowe and Vasquez and getting a lower level cheaper pitcher than those two. We are about to wind up with a worse starting pitching staff and scrubs or hasbeens for 1st base and the outfield. Thanks Soriano. Cut this bum in spring training and move forward.
December 8th, 200910:49 am
May I take a stab?
I don’t think a whole lot changes, except for FW and his folks work load increasing.
The Braves still have the same goals as before; adding a bat or two between now and the beginning of the season. Before, we had an extra starter to help us get there (either through salary dump or actual trade). Now, we just have one more piece to use (or to complicate, as it were) in accomplishing our goal.
Maybe over simplified, but sometimes these things are better left to the simplest of efforts.
Soriano or not, this going to be one heck of a season for the Braves, if just a few things go right for us (Chipper and Mac’s resurgence, Heyward’s arrival, overall team health, Escobar’s maturity, Prado’s continued strong presence in the offense, our acquisitions meeting or exceeding expectations).
I am pumped!
Don’t know what’s more surprising — that Milwaukee offered Wolf a million-per-year more than Hudson in a three-year deal, or that Wolf hasn’t accepted the offer.
Guess he’s waiting for similar offer from a better team (or warmer-weather team?)
December 8th, 200910:50 am
The Soriano thing might work out. Yankee’s were kicking the tires before he accepted. Might set up a nice trade to the Yankees or the Orioles who had interest. Failing an early trade desperate teams or potential contenders always want a closer.
That being said. You have to believe that they will ask for a trade. If he is not our closer and he does (god forbid) stick for the whole season he won’t be the closer. So regardless of his numbers it won’t be the same kind of glory that closer numbers put up. So he would hit the market in 2011 as a setup or mid reliever. That is the part the confuses me about his agents strategy. Even after reading Sabernomics article.
December 8th, 200910:51 am
I’d rather we keep Soriano and trade Saito, but I guess that horse has left the barn.
DOB- The Milwaukee deal for Wolf has to have the Braves brass stoked. With offers like that going out doesn’t it look a lot more likely that we will be able to offload Lowe and expect a significant return???
December 8th, 200910:52 am
Go back and read the blog man. Where are you hearing this silliness?
It was the prevailing theory, then in 1979+ global temperatures began to creep up. The more I learn about global systems and how it relates to climate change – the more opaque the subject becomes.
The ultimate fallback position is thus: we (humans) are injecting all sorts of chemicals/materials into the oceans and the atmosphere at an alarming rate. What are going to be the consequences of said actions?
There are no easy answers, only the fact that we are changing the physical world around us for better or for worse, however you might interpret those changes. Personally, I’m more concerned with the future of the world’s water supplies and the health of the oceans than climate change.
December 8th, 200910:53 am
Wolf – lol at getting more than Huddy and then actually thinking about it
18 Wheels of Love
So does Wren bite the bullet now and pony up the high end arbitration figure of 8m or let the agent hold out until Feb.? Does that help in trading him prior to June 15 or can he be traded prior to having a contract and let the acquiring team either work it out or take him to arbitration?
December 8th, 200910:54 am
What’s MFIKY? and why?
rammerjammer – “I’d rather we keep Soriano and trade Saito, but I guess that horse has left the barn.”
This is what I’m talking about…
I posted this as well in a previous blog…Like really Saito is not God or our Savior or anything…what makes him untouchable????
Plus he’s 40…(like I mentioned above).
I would MUCH rather move Saito then Soriano. I can’t believe its not even an option or being discussed or even thrown around.
its very stubborn in my opinion.
December 8th, 200910:55 am
“What’s MFIKY? and why?” – Runnin
My Friend Is KY(jelly)
Many Fear Irritable Killer Yeti
My Father Is a Kangaroo Y’all
Mexican Food Is Killing You
Men Find Intercourse Kinda Yucky
My Fairy-tale Is Kissing You
For all the Soriano lovers out there: did you guys watch the same season I did? The dude is lights out for a month then out of the blue he gets bored or can’t throw his slider for a strike or falls in love with his slider. I remember that gem he gave up to Ryan Howard. His attitude is always a question mark too.
When he is on he is great, but those long stretches where he is gasoline on a fire. No thanks.
Bat Masterson, that makes it even more maddening. Soriano’s $8 Million shouldn’t cripple the team . . .
While it might not allow for a significant return, it might give more hope that he can be dealt without having to eat any or much of his salary.
From my cheap seats here, I just don’t have a strong feel for the market for a 37 year old starter w/ a 3 year, 45 million dollar commitment. We might just be better off dealing Javy and keeping Lowe, as the return might be more significant.
RC- that was a lot of explanation, for the simple fact that Soriano and his agent used Wren’s greed(?) over wanting a draft pick to set his market value at roughly 8 mil. Now, this could come back to bite Soriano if the RP blows up and teams would be offering more to others but less to him because they don’t want to pay the Braves asking price.
braves budget: 20 players 92 million. your rumor is unfounded and trading 2 starting pitchers is beyond an absurd thought. color me skeptical, but i really dont believe that you heard that from any source and its pure speculation…maybe even your own. trading lowe or vazquez will give the braves 14-18 million to sign bat(s).
if you “heard” that, show the source.
December 8th, 200910:56 am
No leads to reports? No trades rumors? Let’s get something done Wren. I’m tired of hearing all the whining about MFIKY.
I say keep Soriano. Wagner’s arm may blow up & then what do you do?
What if Wagner finds out that last year was his last year? This is baseball you know, & funny things happen in baseball.
But if you flat cannot keep him for money reasons – then a package of Soriano & a starting pitcher should bring a nice right handed power hitter or a group of quality prospects.
But, really, the guys with the money need to throw a little more at the Braves. It takes money to make money (draw 3 million fans).
I don’t think the Braves are allowed to trade him (without his permission) until June 15th (same as Soriano). The difference is that while Soriano likely would LIKE to be traded, Saito is probably not going to accept a trade so quickly after coming to an agreement with the team.
Voice from the past...
December 8th, 200910:57 am
I think Bradbury’s theory (O.J. at 10:11) about Sori makes alot of sense.
Seems like an innovative strategy with little risk from his agent…
DOB, are the Kelly rumors that Bobby is referring to something that Wren and Co. want to get done before they decide whether to keep Kelly or non-tender him? Do you get the sense that they either make a deal prior to deadline, or failing that, decide to non-tender him? Thanks.
Braves reliever Rafael Soriano
December 8th, 200910:58 am
8 million in hand is preferable to 16 million in the bush.
December 8th, 200910:59 am
December 8th, 2009
glord1, I’m not going to argue with you. Let’s move on.
I am not trying to argue and I am not trying to bash Soriano. I am just saying that Wren gambled and lost in the short term. The Braves had control of a top closer at a reasonable price but did not want him for whatever reason. The Braves know Soriano better than anyone and did not want him back after he had a very good year and they need a closer. That speaks volumes.
What I dont like is the Braves have very little control over this situation at this point. Their only leverage is to pay Soriano 7-8 mil a year to be a middle reliever and hurt his future value. But how much do they hurt him if he pitches 70 innings in middle relief with a low ERA and over a K per inn. Will clubs think he forgot how to close next year.
This is not a disaster. Like may have stated the the Braves can trade him next summer and save 4 mil. Soriano could be worth an awful lot next summer. Then they did not lose him for nothing. Also positive is once again he is pitching for his future next year.
It will probably all work out but it is a pretty big complication that will have to be worked through.
Crazy Trades McGee
Soriano for Milton Bradley, straight up…
December 8th, 200911:00 am
Basically, Soriano found a way to translate some of the value of a draft pick for the Braves into money for himself.
Oh, I agree with that, no problem. But, the equation also has to include the values of time and need, that is, a trading partner’s perceived need that could be filled by Soriano and the amount of season time Soriano would be available to fill that need. Both could be premiums to Soriano’s value. Just depends on the market.
I guess I figured as much. But the Wolf deal was definitely suprising. I guess overall Lackey will still do a lot to dictate what we are able to do. But if the market for SP continues like it started, with Wolf, I just thought that would probably change the landscape somewhat.
December 8th, 200911:01 am
nova scotia I would MUCH rather move Saito then Soriano. I can’t believe its not even an option or being discussed or even thrown around.
its probably because since saito was signed as a free agent, he cannot be traded until some point during the season. at least soriano could be traded this winter with his permission.
December 8th, 200911:02 am
The difference is that while Soriano likely would LIKE to be traded, Saito is probably not going to accept a trade so quickly after coming to an agreement with the team.
Well, and how would it look to other potential FAs who might sign with Atlanta? Don’t go to the ATL – they might trade you before you are even given a chance to slip on the uniform. Its just not good for business, so I wager Wren has no intention to move Saito unless its in a homerun deal.
NC Braves Fan
December 8th, 200911:03 am
glord: They were willing to let Soriano walk for the exact same reason they let just about every FA go – salary.
It doesn’t mean they don’t want him on the team, or there’s some sort of past resentments there.
Soriano is a very expensive insurance policy, but I say… keep him. Wagoner and Saito are aged veterans. Yes they’re still good, but having that 3rd guy could prevent us from overusing any of them.
OR, try to package Lowe or Vazquez with Soriano or Saito in a big-time trade to acquire the bat(s) that will strengthen our offense.
Just trying to find the bright side. I’m sure FW will turn this into an advantage for us.
December 8th, 200911:04 am
Forgot to mention that Bobby Cox was asked a lot of questions yesterday about retiring — says it’s definitely the last season and he hasn’t reconsidered — and about his successor. When asked if anyone on his current staff would make a good manager, he said all of them. But the thing I found interesting was that he said he wants no part of the process to hire his replacement.
or perhaps, as others are suggesting, Saito (and other FAs) can not be traded before a certain date, which I know nothing about.
December 8th, 200911:05 am
Lowe + Schafer (Or other decent prospect) for Swisher…
December 8th, 200911:06 am
“Yes, you DO need offense, but with this group, you could score two runs on most nights and pretty well be assured of a win. It’s got to be some great fantasy material to dwell on. I’m not sure there’s any team that could win a series against us with this rotation and pen. Just sayin’. They’re probably good enough to withstand starting Church and Kelly. Well, maybe not-we need the money we’ll save from them.”—Lew
Lew, I know you are saying this tongue-in-cheek, kind of half serious thing the way I read it but the Rule Of 64 will prevent this from happening. If the Braves were to only score two runs they would lose over 80% of their games. It matters not who is pitching. History has shown this and I did a matrix for this year many blogs back about the winning percentages for 2009 and the Braves actually did not have a great year against the rule.
Actually if the Braves score 2 runs they would win about 2 out of every 10 give or take a game. Don’t have time to go back and give you all the percentages on the rule and what the actual Braves percentages were but it ain’t good.
If the Braves slogan for 2010 is “Just Score 4″ then the Rule of 64 could be trumped providing we have our great pitching perform as such on a regular basis. I agree though that I would not trade our overall pitching with anyone.
When I first read that I laughed out loud. Then I started to think….maybe….?
December 8th, 200911:07 am
I think the key here is, and it’s the hardest thing for me and probably a lot of others on this forum, be patient. It’s not like we’re stuck with a 10-and-5 guy like Maddux was, or some of the dog contracts out there. Would you rather have Soriano for 7-8 or Kerry Wood for over 10, or KRod for over 10, or Lidge for whatever. Insurance is expensive sometimes, but if we really want to compete, I would rather not go in to the season counting on Acosta and the likes in the pen.
That being said, I believe Wren’s patience will pay off and we will be able to trade Soriano and Lowe and get a decent return for them. And whoever suggested we get Milton Bradley, look at the man’s numbers. He isn’t what we’re looking for, even if he got a lobotomy.
December 8th, 200911:10 am
This wouldn’t have happened if Boros represented Soriano. Kinda makes you appreciate ol’ Scott, now doesn’t it? LOL
December 8th, 200911:11 am
Well, well, well. Where are all the naysayers who told me I was wrong a couple of days ago when I said the smart move for Soriano was to accept arbitration?
How novel. ESPN was saying that day one. But you want a cookie for it? Congrats, Anders. You can read the internet. Bravo!
December 8th, 200911:12 am
It’s off topic, but you might be interested to know that they are discussing Tom Waits for Guillermo del Toro’s “The Hobbit”. That should be interesting. Apparently he is also in Terry Gilliam’s “The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus”. Not sure how I missed that one.
How about trade Soriano to the Red Sox for David Renfroe? Here’s a description of him from Baseball Prospectus:
Like Kelly, he’s another big-bonus, two-way star, but Renfroe will begin his career as an infielder, and he projects as a prototypical third baseman due to his size, power potential, and arm.
Might be ready around the time Chipper hangs it up?
But the thing I found interesting was that he said he wants no part of the process to hire his replacement.
December 8th, 200911:15 am
They could just consider giving Soriano away for near nothing. The choice was always offer him arbitration and hope he doesn’t take it or not offer him anything. By not offering, they would have gotten nothing for him anyway. Treat the situation as if you had never offered him arbitration and move on.
LEW nailed it at 10:26. I think FW is in the catbird seat with this abundance of pitching. He’s going to be a very popular guy this winter. For a relatively few million bucks (of other people’s money) he now has expanded his world of trade opportunities, not reduced them. Everybody on the baseball planet knows pitching trumps all. I’m stoked.
December 8th, 200911:16 am
The guy can hit and get on base… He can be a 15-20HR guy and put up a .400 OBP… Plus he’s a switch hitter… Haven’t really looked at his splits or anything I just figured the Cubs could use a closer and a salary dump… Plus I like Crazy Trades, A LOT
willie mays hayes
December 8th, 200911:20 am
Wayne in utah … i think bravo1966 got that idea from talking chop. What he said was almost word for word from their website. Only difference is talking chop was just throwing the scenario of trading Vazquez and Lowe out there, they never said Braves were actually considering it. Example #999784 of how silly rumors can get started
I was thinking about this last night…Does anyone see a Soriano to Yankees for Nick Swisher trade a-brewing.
It even makes sense financially…whcih scares the hell out of me.
Cause I said it before and I’ll say it again…Nick Swisher is NOT the answer for the Atlanta Braves and their lack of power in the outfield. Not even close.
Mother F’r I’ll Kill You???? How did that stick
Really? You must listen to the games on the radio.
I don’t sense that the Cubs think they need a closer. But they might reconsider if some team would take Bradley off their hands.
If you knew that BC had a decent chance to get to the heart of Bradley and his issues, that kind of an acquisition might work. But my head tells me no way!
December 8th, 200911:21 am
NC Braves Fan
December 8th, 2009
glord: They were willing to let Soriano walk for the exact same reason they let just about every FA go – salary.
I agree that salary is always the issue. A good example is Gonzo who the Braves really like. He did a good job, is a great teamate and is a lefty strike out machine. He is very valuable and ofcoarse they would love him back but his price has jumped out of their range.
As far as Soriano I think there is pretty good evidence that the Braves are not emamored with him for reasons beyond just salary. He is 30 years old coming off a strong year. The Braves just gave a 38 year old that pitched 23 inn last year a contract within 1 mil of what Sori will cost. I will be shocked if he starts the season on the roster. It is in the Braves and Sorianos best interest for him to play somewhere else next year. The agent just made a great move and took control of his clients future. In the end it will probably work out for both the team and player.
December 8th, 200911:25 am
If Swisher is not the answer, then maybe you are asking the wrong question….
December 8th, 200911:27 am
Who’s more gangster – Wren or MFIKY? Guess we know the answer to that.
As if there was ever any doubt in my mind.
December 8th, 200911:28 am
Hey Wayne – I saw you say hey to me somewhere along the way in the scroll thru.
December 8th, 200911:29 am
“My Fairy-tale Is Kissing You”-sidslidkid
Thanks for clearing that up.
I had a dream last night that the Braves traded for Alfredo Almezaga and said that was their big bat.
I don’t know what’s sadder: that I dreamed about the hot stove, or that the dream actually seems like it’d be true to life.
December 8th, 200911:33 am
RHR — Your 11:20 gave me a nice chuckle.
December 8th, 200911:37 am
DOB: A couple of deals (that I feel are actually possible and not one-sided) the Braves should consider…
Soriano + Church to Cubs for Bradley + Hoffpauir
Lowe + Johnson to Mariners for Lopez + Hall
These two deals would save the Braves $8million in 2010 and bring team payroll to approx $90million. Lopez or Prado could man 1B in 2010 and 3B once Chipper retires. I realize this may not be the big bat that many crave, but it is a payroll solution and gives tremendous flexibility for 2010 and beyond.
Too bad there isn’t a team in Siberia we can ship Soriano to.
Nova Scotia Steve
December 8th, 2009
“I was thinking about this last night…Does anyone see a Soriano to Yankees for Nick Swisher trade a-brewing.
Cause I said it before and I’ll say it again…Nick Swisher is NOT the answer for the Atlanta Braves and their lack of power in the outfield. Not even close”
is it his 28-30 hr potential, 800-850 ops, .350-.380 obp, his 80-100 walks/year, or his above average outfield defense that isnt the answer?
December 8th, 200911:40 am
If Crawford is available I think he should be at the top of the Braves wish list. We are not going to be able and go get a Bay or Holliday. We just dont have that kind of money to spend. And we wont give up the prospects it would take to get Gonzalez when he would just leave in 2 years anyways(see Teixeira). So with no other real “true” power threat available, in my opinion, the next best thing you can do is get a guy who can turn a walk or a single into a double or triple(see Crawford). And then if you can go get a Dan Uggla and move Prado to first or sign a Derosa to play first or second or maybe take gamble on an Atkins at first base and see if he returns to form. Im upset that Soriano accepted, but maybe it could be a blessing in disguise. The Rays need and are looking for a closer. So I dont know if a package of Soriano, Schafer, and maybe a Medlen would do it. Hell, I would even trade McLouth for Crawford. It would save the Rays a lot of money. McLouth has a very friendly contract and is signed for 3 or 4 more years. What do you all think? Crawford makes Prado, Chipper, McCann, whoever is hitting in the 4 hole a better “rbi guy”. But just my opinion.
Then sign LaRoche, although it would probably take another prospect to get he Rays deal done. Also, before you shoot me down, if the Rays can consider taking on Roy Halladay for 16+ million a year, they can take Lowe’s 15 per year. Or even add a haul of prospects and get Pena too.
Understandable that Bobby doesn’t want to help find his replacement. If he picks a guy from his staff he might offend others on his staff that he didn’t say he wanted. And if he said he wanted someone from outside the orginization then he just insulted his whole coaching staff. It’s not Bobby’s job to insult people by passing them over…it’s Wren’s.
Some have mentioned a Soriano for M. Bradley and I say WHAT??? This guy is cancer of the team. He destroys and he distracts. No thanks!
December 8th, 200911:43 am
Three-team blockbuster deal is stalled — updated at 9:43 a.m.
The prospect of a winter meetings blockbuster is alive, but one person with intimate knowledge of the Yankees-Diamondbacks-Tigers talks said Tuesday morning that the chances of a deal are “not good.”
The hang-up, the source said, is that the Yankees believe they would be surrendering too much talent in the deal to get one player — even if that one player is Detroit’s Curtis Granderson, an All-Star center fielder.
According to a scenario described by multiple sources on Monday night, the Yankees would surrender four players in all: center fielder Austin Jackson and left-handed relievers Phil Coke and Michael Dunn to Detroit; and right-hander Ian Kennedy to Arizona.
Sources said Tuesday that the Diamondbacks currently aren’t willing to send prospects to New York in the exchange.
So, it appears that Monday’s proposed (but not accepted) deal was as follows:
The Yankees would get Granderson from the Tigers.
The Diamondbacks would get right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tigers and Kennedy from the Yankees.
The Tigers would get right-hander Max Scherzer from the Diamondbacks, and Austin Jackson, Coke and Dunn from the Yankees. — Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi
December 8th, 200911:46 am
Andy K, how about, we can’t afford that?
December 8th, 200911:48 am
I say trade Lowe for salary dump. Extend Vazquez with a backloaded deal (to help absorb Soriano’s money), sign LaRoche and go with Church and Diaz in the OF, with Heyward coming at some point, in which Church and Diaz can platoon. Perhaps Schafer is in the mix at some point.
Wren could find a very cheap bench guy like Sheffield to throw in the ring as well. Lets not forget that Infante can get some AB’s as well.
And frickin’ roll with it. Then in June IF Wren feels he needs another bat, move Soriano to the highest bidder who feels they are a solid relief pitcher away from contending for whatever he can get.
Like I said last night. Best pitching staff 1-12 in baseball Bar none. Go with the lineup that helped give us one of the best records in baseball after June 28ths (swapping Loaf for Heyward, Wagner for Gonzalez, and Saito for Acosta, and Hudson for Lowe).
Don’t really see the problem. Maybe we even get lucky and Chipper rebounds, giving us our big bat we were missing last year?
Agree with Lew. If Wren is patient, and Liberty media allows him to at least temporarily carry the extra salary, he’s in the driver’s seat if he’s patient.
Maybe next year, he’ll publicly state that the projected salary is about 15 million higher than he intends for it to be, as to not put himself in the possible pickle of teams knowing he needs to dump salary.
Half of me says teams will come calling. The other half thinks this feels too much like when everybody KNEW that JS had to dump salary and all we got was Estrada for Millwood (which didn’t really turn out that bad in the end – but at the time seemed like too little).
December 8th, 200911:52 am
ryan c…”Nick Swisher’s 28-30 hr potential”
The problem with that statement is the new Yankee Stadium! He had 29 ding-dongs there…which is very solid…but would that amount to solid numbers at the Ted.
I suppose he had 35 in Oakland in 2006. Maybe I am over-looking Swisher…
December 8th, 200911:54 am
Treat the situation as if you had never offered him arbitration and move on
Obviously the team already determined they would want something for him.
December 8th, 200911:55 am
nova scotia The problem with that statement is the new Yankee Stadium! He had 29 ding-dongs there…
how long are people going to keep saying this? no, steve, he had 8 homers at new yankee stadium. thats right, 21 of his 29 homers were on the road.
December 8th, 200911:57 am
okay well maybe its his .245 career batting average that i don’t like!
December 8th, 200911:59 am
I’m supporting the Mike Cameron bangwagon too…
P. W. Hjort
How did the Braves reconcile Soriano re-joining their 40-man roster? Who was the odd-man out? Or have they made that decision yet?
December 8th, 200912:02 pm
okay well maybe its his (swisher’s) .245 career batting average that i don’t like!
I’m supporting the Mike Cameron bangwagon too…
mike cameron has a career .250 batting average. your position is absent of logic.
by the way, batting average is not too important when you are dealing with guys like cameron, and especially swisher, who get on base at a high rate. swisher is especially good at this.
Tom Waits wears Redwing boots
December 8th, 200912:03 pm
Your 10:49, Wolfe offered 10 million per year. I say again, everyone be patient and the Lowe contract will become more agreeable to a team desperate for a proven starter. I think the same trade market will develop for Soriano. These guys can pitch and Wren will not short sell especially this early in the offseason. Maybe Chipper will become sensative and defer a few million. It seems there are too many alternatives to go doomsday.
December 8th, 200912:05 pm
Mike Cameron > Swisher and much cheaper
I think this variation on the old May West chestnut “too much of a good thing is great” applies to Wren’s pitching situation, in spades.
December 8th, 200912:09 pm
Where is mitchiesan??? 50 year storm waves hitting Hawaii today. 50 foot faces on waves.
December 8th, 200912:14 pm
“Where is mitchiesan??? 50 year storm waves hitting Hawaii today. 50 foot faces on waves.”
Where’s Mitchie? How about where is Bodie and the dead presidents? Robbing banks to finance the ENDLESS SUMMER!!!
There was only one other person I’d ever seen with a MFIKY stare. One big difference, She was stone cold (and I DO mean stone cold) gorgeous. Her stare could eat through steel, though.
18 wheels I was just down the beach here in Westhampton, there is basically no beach left and some houses are losing back decks and full stairs etc, one decent storm on Long Island and there will be many homes swept out to sea
December 8th, 200912:16 pm
I dare say that if I owned beachfront property on Long Island, I could afford a new deck.
December 8th, 200912:17 pm
wjones: Braves want to trade Kelly before the Dec. 12 non-tender deadline, if they can. Wouldn’t surprise me if a deal happens in next couple of days….
18 Wheels: Yes, Braves could trade him and let other team work out the arbitration, provided Soriano approved of the deal. But why would another team trade for him before knowing the salary? Braves seem to think it’ll be $6.5-7 mill, but plenty of us think it’ll be closer to $8 mill. (Maybe Braves just hinted it would be the lower figure in hopes the player and his agent would also view it that way and be more inclined to decline arb. I don’t know.)
Question about arbitration……Does the Arbitration Panel take the current state of the economy into consideration when deciding a case? Also, don’t they use current contracts, or, for that matter, the most recent contracts to decide salary? If that were the case, wouldn’t Soriano only see a modest raise from his $6.1 MM? Also, he turned down arbitration knowing full well The Braves won’t give him the closers role. What is the average salary for a 7th inning pitcher? By turning down arbitration, it seems clear to me, he has agreed to accept The Braves new role for him. Shouldn’t he also be expected to accept the pay that goes with that role?
December 8th, 200912:23 pm
Yes, Braves could trade him and let other team work out the arbitration, provided Soriano approved of the deal.
My interpretation of the CBA is that the Braves can trade Soriano without his permission until he signs a deal. Or if they end up going to arbitration and his salary is decided that way, they can trade him without his permission whenever.
Thanks DOB, I wondered if he could be moved before a contract. I agree, why would anyone else, at least with payroll limitations, take a risk? I just wonder if Wren will try to pay what the agent wants so he does have a definitive number to shop around? Or take the payroll bump until June?
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