When tryptophan wears off, Braves offseason should perk up

I’m thinking that if my man Homer Simpson were judging the early portion of this baseball offseason, he’d offer a one-word summary: Bor-ing. But things are going to pick up soon, folks.  Not long after the tryptophan wears off from our Thanksgiving turkey.

6a00e5518fa10688340120a53d4725970b-800wiHere we are in the final week of November, and the Braves and most teams are waiting for this offseason train to really get rolling down the tracks. It should after the Dec. 1 deadline for teams to offer arbitration to their free agents, then it’ll probably be hurtling at full speed at the Dec. 7-10 Winter Meetings in Indianapolis (always lovely in December, from what I hear).

Oh, and before we continue, please remember you can always follow the wit, wisdom, pithy observations, recommendations and ruminations on Twitter at @ajcbraves. Yes, we made our deal with the devil at the crossroads.

It’s sure nothing like it a year ago, is it? (I’m talking about the offseason in general, not the GM and Winter Meetings. But yes, that’s different, too – in 2009 those were held in Dana Point and Las Vegas, respectively; this year the GM meetings were at a Chicago airport hotel, the Winter Meetings in Indy. Niiice.)

If you care to indulge me a moment, let’s take a look back, shall we? To last November.

The early 2008 offseason was eventful, to say the least. Just a year ago at this time the Braves and Padres had already spent more than a month discussing and negotiating a potential blockbuster trade for Jake Peavy, until GM Frank Wren announced just before Thanksgiving that the Braves had pulled out of talks.

Seemingly every twist and turn in those talks was leaked (and dutifully reported) by us ink-stained wretches in Atlanta, San Diego — and across the nation. It was the baseball story of the early offseason, at least for a while.

At this time a year ago, our fixation

At this time a year ago, our fixation

Only later did we learn that Peavy had either invoked or threatened to invoke his no-trade clause, contradicting earlier reports and comments from his agent and Peavy’s Alabama friends who said he’d long wanted to pitch for the Braves.

Until word circulated durig the Winter Meetings that Peavy desired to pitch for the Cubs and didn’t think the Braves wouldn’t be a playoff contender, it was thought the Padres’ ever-evolving, escalating demands were what sunk the deal.

Anyway, the Braves said <em>no mas</em> right before Thanksgiving.

But by the time the Braves pulled out, some close to the situation were already convinced that Peavy would probably never agree to the deal anyway.

From the Braves’ perspective, the asking price had soared – Yunel Escobar and a few Braves prospects including CF Gorkys Hernandez — and the Braves said they were tired of focusing so much on those negotiations and concerned about missing other opportunities while they wrangled with the Padres.

In the end, the Atlnta’s frustrating, ultimately fruitless weeks of negotiations with then-Padres GM Kevin Towers perhaps turned out for the better, since the Braves wouldn’t have later traded for Javier Vazquez if they’d landed Peavy, and would have opened a big hole in the lineup and defense by trading Escobar, one of the team’s two best players (along with Brian McCann) in 2009.

And here we are a year later, the Braves possibly looking to trade Vazquez – but only as a Plan B, if they’re convinced they can’t trade Derek Lowe without having to eat a big chunk of the $45 mill he’s still owed over three seasons.

I know, you’ve probably heard this a few times by now. And your point is?

No, but seriously, we’re just trying to refresh, since some only drop in on the ol’ blog from time to time, not all day like true Braves fans/blog loyalists.

The Braves would prefer to trade Lowe, clear up some payroll, and use that to pursue a big bat either through free agency or another trade possibly involving some younger Braves talent not named Heyward, Hanson or Jurrjens.

We interrupt this blog to announce Penelope Cruz has not one, but two new movies coming out

We interrupt this blog to announce Penelope Cruz has not one, but two new movies coming out...

Some of you understandably would like to know what’s going to happen, would like to be told point-blank that the Braves aren’t trading Vazquez or they are trading Lowe or they are or aren’t open to trading Jordan Schafer, etc.

But it’s not that simple. So many levers and interconnected parts in this offseason. Because if the Braves could find a taker for Lowe, it opens up a whole different set of circumstances than if they can’t and end up deciding to trade Vazquez, rather than trying to re-sign Vazquez if they could move Lowe.

And did I mention, we’re covering this offseason without as much access as we had a year ago, when Wren was nice enough to acknowledge the Braves were pursuing Peavy … then A.J. Burnett … and, yeah, the young Japanese pitcher who signed with Boston … and that situation with John Smoltz … and Rafael Furcal agentgate….

Without going into great detail again, we’ll just say last winter the Braves were involved in a lot of situations that got played out publicly, and at the time Wren and the Braves weren’t looking too good coming up on the short end.

After last winter’s experiences, and also, ahem, something involving Ken Griffey Jr. during spring training, Wren sought to have a more conventional, less-conspicuous offseason this year — to keep business matters private as much as possible.

So far, his dealings with most agents have remained private, and the only time Wren has commented on any of the rumors and speculation involving the Braves and possible targeted players was when he responded to a report that they were interested in Cuban defector Aroldis Chapman, the lefty who figures to get a huge free-agent contract despite his lack of professional experience.

Wren came out and said the Braves had no plans to pursue Chapman, contrary to reports.

And that was it. So far, he hasn’t commented on any other players they’ve been linked to, including trade possibilities like Washington Nationals outfielder Josh Willingham and free agents Mike Cameron, Jermaine Dye and Mark DeRosa.

In the case of DeRosa, the Braves were named as one of 12 teams that had expressed interest in the former Braves infielder/outfielder, though the degree of that interest remains unclear.

Here’s what Wren told me this week when I asked him about laying lower this winter and his lack of comments about specific players the Braves might be pursuing or any confirmation or refuting of rumored links, other than the Cuban pitcher.

“I felt like last year — not necessarily on our part — but everyone we were involved with was very public in their discussions,” he said, referring to agents who either leaked information or openly talked about the Braves’ interest in their clients. “I don’t know that we’ve changed a lot [in his stance on making comments this winter], but I’m not going to comment publicly on speculation. It doesn’t serve any purpose. And so far nobody we’ve dealt with has discussed things publicly.”

He also noted that in some cases, the Braves or other teams might be linked to a player by an agent who names every team that’s made so much as a comment about one of the agent’s clients.

“If you call agents up and talk just in general about their list of players, if you just make an innocuous comment, I like [player's name] — that becomes interest in him.”

Wren added that the Braves might miss out on as many or more players this winter as last, but people probably won’t hear about it because the pursuits aren’t being played out publicly, at least so far.

“I’ve got a list of about 50 player we’re interested in, for three or four spots,” he said, referring to openings in the outfield and potentially at first base and the bullpen. “So we’re going to miss on about 46. It happens every year, but last year people put a notch on the door frame of everyone we missed.”

Yes, that criticism probably stung at the time, even if Wren ultimately went on to have a strong offseason topped by a pitching overhaul that turned Atlanta’s starting rotation into arguably the deepest in the National League.

His list of the team’s needs this winter has been kept to basics for public purposes, including this description he provided a couple days ago: “We’re looking for the best players; hopefully they’re right-handed.”

♣ Trading away a pitcher: The Braves have six proven starters with the return of Tim Hudson. If they do trade Vazquez, they’d free up his $11.5 million owed in 2010, and might also procure a solid young hitter back in that deal – unlike if they move Lowe, which almost certainly isn’t going to bring back a lot in return and would be more about getting out from under his contract than anything else.

Will Johnson go non-tendered at Dec. 12 deadline?

If he's not traded, will Johnson go non-tendered at Dec. 12 deadline?

But again, you’ve heard all this before, most of you. Just trying to reiterate where we stand as we wait for a couple of developments after Thanksgiving, that arbitration-offer date, and the Winter Meetings, and the Dec. 12 date for teams to tender contracts to their unsigned players (when quite a few arb-eligible players could be non-tendered and become free agents, with Kelly Johnson and Ryan Church as Braves possibilities in that group, if not traded first).

Will the Braves offer arbitration to their Type A free agents, relievers Rafael Soriano and Mike Gonzalez and Type B first baseman Adam LaRoche? If I had to guess, I’d say to at least two of them, with Gonzalez just about a definite.

I don’t know if they’ll risk a possible $8-9 mill salary for Soriano, but given that he’s rated the top reliever available by some analysts, perhaps the Braves will take that gamble. With Gonzo it seems like hardly a gamble at all, since the chances of Scott Boras advising him to take a one-year arb deal from Braves are almost nil – remember, Boras told us last week that about half of the teams in the majors had called to express interest in his new client, Gonzo, before the first day for teams to negotiate with free agents other than their own.

Gonzalez is going to get multi-year offers from some teams, and especially with his health history I can’t imagine him turning those down for a one-year arb offer from Atlanta. Same for Soriano, really, but I’m just not quite as certain about there being as many multi-year offers for Soriano. Perhaps I should be, though. When he’s on, he’s an elite reliever – maybe NL’s best in the first half of 2009.

And if the Braves lose both of them, which seems more likely than not, then don’t be surprised if they are a leading contender for Billy Wagner.

Wagner is a Southern boy who raises alpacas on his farm outside Charlottesville, Va. He’s an FOC (Friend of Chipper) and has made it known he’d like to pitch for Bobby Cox and the Braves. The lefty might sign a one-year deal for less than either Gonzalez or Soriano would cost the Braves in arbitration.

Yes, he’s 38 and only a year removed from Tommy John surgery. But if you saw Wagner pitch for the Mets against the Braves near the end of last season, or any of his appearances with Boston after he was traded, you know he looked sharp and overpowering again.

And while the Red Sox might offer him arb, Wagner wants to close full-time, which he wouldn’t do there.

It would cost the Braves their first-round draft pick, but they could end up with up to two first-round picks (and three sandwich picks) if they offer arbitration to their own Type A’s and LaRoche, a Type B.

♣ Other matters, hitting and such: Will the Braves pursue Mike Cameron, finally? The Georgia native (from LaGrange) let some know a couple years ago that he  would like to play in Atlanta.

LaGrange's Cameron can still go get it

LaGrange's Cameron can still go get it

Now, after spending the past couple of seasons in Milwaukee, there appears to be at least a little better chance Cameron and the Braves could be a match.

Cameron will be 37 next season, and he’s not the speedster or quite the Gold Glove center-fielder he once was. But the dude can still play. He’s right-handed, and over the past two seasons he has 49 homers and 140 RBIs with an OPS over .800.

Think about that – Cameron has 25 and 24 homers the past two seasons for Milwaukee, while McCann led the Braves with 21 last season (the Braves really were lacking boppers last year, particularly before the got Adam LaRoche for the stretch drive).

Cameron played 149 games last season, including 147 in center field. And played it well, too. He’s not a player better suited to DH, like, say, Garret Anderson.

Do the Braves want old dudes at 3B and at one of the OF positions? Hey, Cameron is far more productive offensively than Garret was last season, and their defensive abilities aren’t even comparable, as we said.

Besides, a team lined with veterans seemed to do pretty well this season in the Bronx, I seem to recall.

It’s too early to know where the market will go for Cameron, since those same Yankees or Cubs could alter it in a hurry if they decide to get involved. But if the Braves can get him for a one-year deal at, oh, about $5 million, should they do it? How ’bout $7-8 mill?

♣ Heyward factor? Here’s one other aspect to consider about Cameron. He is, by all accounts, a great guy in the clubhouse, solid teammate, good influence (notwithstanding a 25-game suspension for a banned stimulant two years ago).

With Jason Heyward on the way, you think having a role-model type like Cameron in the outfield might be attractive to the Braves? Not that Matt Diaz and Nate McLouth wouldn’t do fine helping show Heyward the ropes, but in Cameron you’re talking about a three-time Gold Glove winner, a Georgia native that I’m guessing Heyward probably admired over the years.

Could Dye be a fit in OF or possibly 1B?

Could Dye be a fit in OF or possibly 1B?

And speaking of guys that Heyward might have admired … how about former Brave Jermaine Dye, who was a Braves rookie in 1996 when Heyward was, what, 7? OK, so he probably doesn’t even remember Dye from that Braves era, but anyway…

I’ve gone on record as saying Dye stunk for the second half of the 2009 season, that his defense is pretty bad now, and that his offensive numbers were actually quite comparable to Garret’s after the first two months of the season.

So I’m not going to be hypocritical and say I think he’d be a great pickup for the Braves. On the other hand, he does have 51 homers over the past two seasons (27 in 2009) and did have an .885 OPS in 2008 (slipped to .793 last season).

And here’s the thing: Dye says he’s open to playing first base. If the Braves had reason to believe he could play a competent 1B, then I could see the attraction in bringing in the 6-foot-4 Dye in some sort of hybrid role, perhaps as an OF/1B until Heyward is ready. If Heyward is ready early, perhaps even during spring training, maybe Dye plays against most lefties (he hit .292 with an .894 OPS against lefties last season, though 20 of 27 homers were off RHPs).

Who knows how serious the Braves are, but they have at least asked about Dye. I’m only saying I could see the attraction, if the Braves don’t think they’re going to be able to afford to bring back LaRoche and believe that other proven, still-productive 1B options would be too expensive via trade or free agency.

As a one-year bridge to Freddie Freeman, Dye could be either the answer or part of it. Not ideal, mind you, unless they have some way of knowing he could play a solid defensive 1B (and I don’t see how they could know that). But maybe as a platoon there with Diaz or someone else … oh, I’m confusing myself now).

(By the way, the Braves aren’t concerned by Freeman’s late-season struggle in Double-A or his mediocre Arizona Fall League, attributing both to the sore wrist he developed this summer. That injury caused him to miss the last few weeks in Double-A and wasn’t entirely healed when he began playing in Arizona. Two months of rest this winter, Wren said, should do the trick.)

The Braves have asked about Cameron and about Dye, but it’s unclear where either of those guys are on the Braves’ big board.

After all, the Braves have also asked about DeRosa and a lot of other players we don’t even know about at this point, but asking about DeRo or someone else doesn’t necessarily mean they have him at the top of their wish list (DeRo could certainly help them, with some experience at 1B along with plenty at 3B and the OF. But a team like Philly might offer him a longer, richer contract and a better positional fit).

OK, glad we’ve cleared it all up for you (he says, smiling).

BBQ heaven awaits

BBQ heaven awaits

♣ We’re headed to North Carolina for Thanksgiving at the parents’ house in Wilson. Planning to eat pulled-pork BBQ multiple times, including Parker’s and Bill’s in Wilson, and a stop in Lexington on the drive up. (I much prefer it Eastern N.C. style, with the light vinegar-based sauce, the way I ate it growing up in Greenville. But the stuff with the red sauce in Lexington is also good. They add tomato to the vinegar sauce and only use the shoulder, not the whole hog that’s used in Eastern N.C.)

We’ll have continuous music cranked up on the drive, including the new Tom Waits live CD I bought today, Glitter and Doom Live, which has this classic (Fannin Street; lyrics below) on it. And here’s a bootleg clip of him doing the song during last year’s tour. By the way, the stellar Atlanta show on that tour — one of my favorite concerts ever — produced a couple of songs on the album. Can’t find a video of his incredible performance of Eyeball Kid in Atlanta, but here’s  video of him doing it in Houston, where he performed it much as he did here. Enjoy the madness (not to mention the glitter hat he dons midway through the song).

tom-waits_bp

“FANNIN STREET” by Tom Waits

There’s a crooked street in Houston town,

It’s a well born path I’ve traveled down

Now there’s ruin in my name, I wish I never got off the train,

I wished I’d listened to the words you said.

*

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

You’ll be lost and never found

You can never turn around

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

*

Once I held you in my arms, I was sure

But I took that silent stare through the guilded door

The desire to have much more, all the glitter and the roar,

I know this is where the sidewalk ends.

*

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

You’ll be lost and never found

You can never turn around

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

*

When I was young I thought only of getting out

I said goodbye to my street, goodbye to my house

Give a man gin, give a man cards, give an inch he takes a yard,

And I rue the day that I stepped off this train.

*

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

Don’t go down to Fannin Street

You’ll be lost and never found

You can never turn around

Don’t go down to Fannin Street.

1,843 comments Add your comment

nolie

November 24th, 2009
12:42 am

who are the best veteran free agent relivers? P-Cola

unfortunately Gonzo and Soriano are rated the two best.
Following is some of KLaw’s ideas on the

Closing the market

Thursday, November 19, 2009

If there’s an area of depth in this winter’s free agent market, it’s in relievers, including relievers who have either closer experience or closer stuff. Mike Gonzalez (No. 17), Rafael Soriano (No. 20), Billy Wagner (No. 24), Ryota Igarashi (No. 26), Rafael Betancourt (No. 34), Jose Valverde (No. 37), Fernando Rodney (No. 43), and Brandon Lyon (No. 47) all made my top 50 free agents (appearing on the site at 12:01 a.m. on Friday), while the injured ex-closer J.J. Putz is also available.

Getty Images

Gonzalez just hired Scott Boras as he eyes a big deal.

That market is made deeper by the availability of several comparable arms in trade, including Cleveland’s Kerry Wood (one year plus a vesting option remaining on his contract), Cincinnati’s Francisco Cordero (two years and $25 million remaining — thanks, Wayne!) and perhaps San Diego’s Heath Bell (two years of arbitration remaining).

The sudden surfeit of relievers on the market is in part an accident of timing, but it may also reflect changing attitudes toward closers and relievers in general as more teams recognize the volatility of reliever performance. Teams have handed out some of their worst long-term contracts to relievers in recent years:

* B.J. Ryan, Danys Baez and Kyle Farnsworth all received deals of three-plus years and were complete disasters.
* Cordero hasn’t been terrible, but he is overpaid to the point that the Reds may be unable to move him without paying part of his remaining salary.
* Billy Wagner gave the Mets two-and-a-half good years out of four, and his replacement, Francisco Rodriguez, had a shaky start to his three-year deal.
* Brian Fuentes’ debut year for the Angels made K-Rod look like a bargain.
* Brad Lidge’s three-year extension to keep him away from free agency now looks like a total loss.

Some teams are still willing to play in the deep end of the reliever pool, but many others have chosen to stick to short-term deals or avoid the deals altogether and try to build their bullpens from within:

* Oakland has been playing games with closers for years, first creating and flipping veteran closers, then running a series of kids through the role, including this year’s AL Rookie of the Year, Andrew Bailey.
* Pittsburgh has said it views relievers as risky commodities and will build its ‘pen on the cheap.
* The Red Sox don’t currently have any reliever under contract beyond 2010, nor do the Rangers.
* The Padres don’t either, although they have only two players total who are currently signed to multiyear deals.
* The Rays have just one reliever on a multiyear deal, Dan Wheeler.
* The Twins have just Joe Nathan, the best closer in the game, under a long-term deal, although the three-year deal they gave Jesse Crain, who went down with a torn labrum and a torn rotator cuff three months after signing it, just expired.

We already saw some signs of this change in the way teams approach relievers last winter, when K-Rod got three years and Fuentes and Wood each got two plus some sort of option, this only two years after the Blue Jays gave Ryan his five-year boondoggle and 12 months after the Reds gave Cordero four years. With a glut of closers and potential closers on the market and only a handful of teams looking externally or internally for pitchers to fill that role — Houston, Atlanta, Detroit, Baltimore and not many others — it might be a good year for teams hoping to nab a power arm at a middle-relief price.

Moe Berg

November 24th, 2009
12:48 am

Pulled-pork BBQ sounds wonderful. I haven’t found a place here in Chicago that I really like for it (some good ribs places), so I made my own a couple of weeks ago for the first time. It was pretty good. I’ll do it again soon and tweak the recipe some.

I hope they don’t go after Dye. Being up here, I was a bit more aware of how badly he was slumping than I usually would be. Of the two veterans you mention, I would much rather have Cameron than an ailing Dye at 1B.

shawn

November 24th, 2009
12:56 am

Get dye… Get cameron too and I think we are set on offense. Yeah.yeah

nolie

November 24th, 2009
1:02 am

Hey Dave if you are gonna continue the midnight special blog approach we out to gussy it up and make it an occasion like those old midnight showings of The Rocky Horror Picture Show that ran in Atlanta for years. Fans would come dressed as their favorite characters and play out scenes on the stage B4 the movie started. I wish I had a dollar for every time I went and watched that thing back then. Well maybe $100 would be better, it wasn’t THAT often

shawn

November 24th, 2009
1:05 am

Don’t worry DOB,Dye makes a lot of sense if you’re talking about a short contract and getting that guy away from the OF.And PLEASE somebody take Lowe….talk about opening a big door to make some seriously needed moves.

nolie

November 24th, 2009
1:09 am

Y’know Bobby likes good defensive first basemen, not sure I can see them getting Dye for first either. One game ain’t all that much experience. Diaz has played it that much and played it some in college IIRC.

N8

November 24th, 2009
1:09 am

“The Georgia native (from LaGrange) let some know a couple years ago that he and his wife would like to play in Atlanta.” DOB

Is Cameron’s wife RH? Can she play 1B? (sorry – couldn’t resist)

nolie

November 24th, 2009
1:12 am

Can she play 1B? (sorry – couldn’t resist) N8

well she can’t have played it much less than Dye has ;)

Sturg

November 24th, 2009
1:15 am

I thought LaRoche was a type B free agent… But this is the second story in which he was listed type A. DOB, did something change?

Good blog by the way

Andrew

November 24th, 2009
1:16 am

Nate Mc
Prado
Jones
Dye
McCann
Esco
Cameron
Diaz/Heyward

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
1:27 am

Sturg, LaRoche is a Type B — just a mistake on my part. Glad you pointed it out. It’s fixed now.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
1:35 am

And Sturg, I should add that him being a Type B makes it less likely they would offer arb to LaRoche than if he were a Type A, unless they’re prepared to pay him perhaps a $9 mill arb salary. Because all the Braves would get is a sandwich pick between first and second rounds if they offer arbitration and signs elsewhere.

dusty

November 24th, 2009
1:46 am

DOB that report i told you about way earlier with jon heyman saying that the mets would beat out the braves for holliday was mlb network on the hot stove

Sturg

November 24th, 2009
1:46 am

Thanks for the clarification… As much as I like LaRoche, I hope Wren can find something a bit more creative to fill the gap

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
1:46 am

Sense Nady wasn’t mentioned I’m doubting there is much interest there. IDK why there wouldnt be. RH bat that plays 1B and OF.

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
1:48 am

DOB

In your opinion, If Cameron is brought in who plays CF? McClouth or Cameron?

Arizona Brave

November 24th, 2009
1:57 am

All this free agent speculation is great, but it doesn’t mean jack if we don’t get rid of Lowe’s contract. Like DOB said, Lowe’s contract is the lever that gets those moving parts going and we’re stuck waiting on that till after Lackey signs somewhere. Patience fellow Braves fans, patience.

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
1:57 am

I should add that him being a Type B makes it less likely they would offer arb to LaRoche than if he were a Type A, unless they’re prepared to pay him perhaps a $9 mill arb salary. Because all the Braves would get is a sandwich pick between first and second rounds if they offer arbitration and signs elsewhere.

Ah, yes, but if he were a Type A teams would be less inclined sign him, due to it requiring them to surrender a 1st/2nd round pick. So, if he’s a type A, perhaps there’s a better chance that he accepts arbitration, due to the cost of a draft pick dragging down his market value. Though I don’t suppose the Braves would complain too much about having LaRoche for 1 year, $9 million.

Jay212033

November 24th, 2009
2:17 am

I think that Fernando Rodney would be a great closer option and he would cost the Braves as much as Wagner.

jed

November 24th, 2009
2:17 am

dye? no. cameron? maybe. nady? yes.

Jay212033

November 24th, 2009
2:22 am

P.W. Hjort

Your correct LaRoche will get anywhere from 7-10 mil anyway this season if the Braves do offer him arbitration and he accepts it would be a huge difference from what he’d be getting anyway.

Jay212033

November 24th, 2009
2:25 am

I would take Nady and Cameron if push came to shove. Play Nady at 1B and Cameron in RF.

N8

November 24th, 2009
2:36 am

What I don’t like about the Type-A or Type B free agent classification, is that either way, they are entitled to big raises in arbitration. The dollar amounts and raises should be capped for Class-B cases, so a team can risk offering arbitration to said players.

The risk/reward is much greater for the Class-A guys. I mean, if Gonzo goes to arbitration his salary would likely be much lower than if LaRoche went. So it’s a no brainer for the Braves to offer it to Gonzo. If he accepts, he’ll be retained for a very reasonable rate. If he declines we get a first round pick and a sandwhich pick. If LaRoche accepts its a much bigger hit and if he declines it’s only a sandwich pick.

Just seems odd to me. It just seems that the whole draft pick compensation concept is flawed to me.

On a side note, why not go after both Nady and Cameron? Surely if Lowe’s salary can be dumped and with Soriano likely gone, they could both be afforded. Cameron plays good defense and would be a great addition to the bottom of the order. Nady is not your prototypical clean-up hitter, but provides a very solid bat to wedge between Chipper and Mac.

Those two combined in 2009 for 16.5 million dollars. I don’t think either of them will command what they both made last year, with Nady coming off of his injury and Cameron getting older (and voicing a desire for him – and his wife LOL! – to play in Atlanta). Maybe I’m wrong, but both appear to be nice stop-gaps to Heyward and Freeman.

Not sure Nady is a spectacular 1B or not. Though the sample size of 75 career games at 1B is small, he does have a .994 career fielding percentage over there. I imagine his range is limited compared to your GG caliber guys. But he appears to be a solid defender.

N8

November 24th, 2009
2:37 am

Jay212033, apparently you and I are thinking alike tonight. LOL

N8

November 24th, 2009
2:44 am

Possible lineup before Heyward and Freeman arrive:

McLouth CF
Prado 2B
Chipper 3B
Nady 1B
Mac C
Escobar SS
Diaz LF (possible platoon)
Cameron RF

Not sure if that lineup would be better than the one with Loaf and LaRoche was after the trade for LaRoche, but it would certainly be solid, and with a rebound from Chipper, a healthy year for McLouth and the assumed “next step” for Escobar, that lineup should score enough runs to provide wins for our pitching staff. Especially if Vazquez is kept over Lowe. Even if Lowe was kept over Vazquez, it would still be a very solid team. But if Vazquez is dealt, I’d expect a bigger bat than one of Nady or Cameron to play one of those two positions, which of course would mean the lineup was even better.

I’ll repeat what I’ve stated a few times in recent weeks. Wren has TON of options.

One week people and this off-season is going to get fun.

N8

November 24th, 2009
2:53 am

Oddly enough, if Cameron and Nady are added, we suddenly become very RH heavy in the lineup, assuming that Diaz and Prado are going to be everyday players.

I think only one of the two spots Wren must fill (OF and 1B) has to be RH.

Maybe Wren finds a veteran OF with decent defense who bats LH and rakes against RHP to platoon with Diaz in LF and has Heyward start the year with the Braves and bats him 8th? And in a worst case scenario if Heyward bombs out and has to be sent down, the Diaz and his platoon partner both play full time, or Infante gets more AB’s in the OF?

Again. Many options for Wren. For whatever reason (call it off-season optimism), I think Wren gets it right and we head into the 2010 season with a much better club than we headed into the 2009 season with.

I just hope that Wren can find some bargins with out their (perhaps in the trade of either Lowe and Vazquez) so that he has some money left to upgrade the team at the deadline or along the way if things need fixing.

Richard Nieh

November 24th, 2009
2:55 am

Since Braves is waiting for Fredie Freeman to be ready, they should not even be worried about 1st baseman. They can just play Johnson at second and play Prado at first and concentrating on getting outfield power. This will free up some financial burden. Using Vazquez to get younger player (involving a trade include Diaz or Infante should get a really good young outfielder) but if they do trade vazquez, I hope he won’t be a rental.

By the way, trade Lowe for one year rental is an option.

Cherokee

November 24th, 2009
3:29 am

With a glut of closers and potential closers on the market and only a handful of teams looking externally or internally for pitchers to fill that role — Houston, Atlanta, Detroit, Baltimore and not many others — it might be a good year for teams hoping to nab a power arm at a middle-relief price.

Thank you for that post nolie

Cherokee

November 24th, 2009
3:32 am

Though I don’t suppose the Braves would complain too much about having LaRoche for 1 year, $9 million. PWHjort
Somewhere I got the impression that they did not want him at arbitration price and so are unlikely to offer

ed

November 24th, 2009
5:41 am

Dave U couldn’t believe it when I saw the Parkers BB Cue sign and hear you mentioning it along with Bills. I grew up on Nash St in Wilson and went to school there. You are so right, it’s the best BB Cue anywhere. Wilson also has one of the best hot dog stands anywhere aksi in Dick’s Hot Dogs and the nostalgia inside is worth the price of going.

ed

November 24th, 2009
5:43 am

Ooops,that should have said I couldn’t believe it

NCBravesFan

November 24th, 2009
6:19 am

Cherokee & Nolie: agreed. If Gonzo and Soriano walk this year (which is likely) there’ll probably be a bit of hand-wringing and crying by some fans. But with so many FA closers available, the Braves can focus on getting a good arm at a reasonable price for that slot.

I’m intrigued by the possibilities of this offseason, but I wonder if the Braves still aren’t about a year away from doing serious damage in the NL East.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
7:12 am

Ed: Dick’s Hot Dog Stand in Wilson is the best. Luv that place. Met the owner a few few years back after being sent there by John Schuerholz, who’s a favorite at that little place (Schuerholz’s picture is among the many on the wall; he spoke at one of Dick’s annual baseball luncheons, and a couple of N.C.-raised former Braves have, too).

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
7:14 am

P’Cola Brave: Interesting question. I say Cameron should play CF in that scenario.

VaBraveFan

November 24th, 2009
7:25 am

I dont see Gonzo or Soriano back considering they are getting alot of attention from the rest of the league. The Braves ussually dont spend lots on the bullpen. But i think They should sign Wagner to a 1 yr deal with a team option for 2011. And also go out and sign Someone like David Weathers. Both bring lots of experience. On the offensive side i think our bnest bet is to Trade Lowe to free money up. To make those Bullpen Additions, as well to signing a 1B and OF. The lineup starves for some real power, i dont think we’ll be able to get anyone with 30+ homer potentail unless they trade Prospects and/or Vasquez. But adding 2 players that can hit around 20 homers and hopefully the outfielder being good defensivly will still be enough with our great pitching.

CB

November 24th, 2009
7:40 am

DOB,I love my BBQ and you are making me plan a trip to Wilson,only 130 miles. Anything else worth seeing? Any other good foods?

Joseph G

November 24th, 2009
7:41 am

Has anyone considered signing Aubrey Huff as a stop gap? He isn’t LaRoach with the glove but is a much more consistant hitter with comparablr power. Not the big bopper we need but reasonable.
also the debate between lowe and javy, i say trade javy at his high point. History would say that this was his career year and lowe oly had a set back. think about it, lowe as your 4th starter is not actually too bad when considering other teams 4th starters. who knows maybe Tampa wil take him along with Shafer for Crawford

Jay212033

November 24th, 2009
8:01 am

Like I say if push came to shove why not sign Mike Cameron – 1 yr/5 mil contract, Xavier Nady – 1 yr/3 mil contract Ron Mahay – 2 yr/6 mil and Fernando Rodney – 2 yr/8 mil contract.

Let Cameron play RF since he has a better arm and range compared to Diaz. Platoon Schafer and Diaz in LF when Schafer starts put him in RF and Cameron in CF.

Now again this is if all other efforts fall through.

indybrave

November 24th, 2009
8:12 am

Indy isn’t Vegas for sure, but it could be worse. Do you know what part of town you are staying in yet or where the meetings are? Might be able to give you some places to visit that hopefully make your visit enjoyable.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
8:16 am

CB: The BBQ alone is worth a drive to Wilson. But while there, you should check out the North Carolina Baseball Museum at Fleming Field (you might tell them Jim O’Brien’s son sent you), and the previously mentioned Dick’s Hot Dog Stand, which has ridiculously inexpensive and excellent dogs (and check out the ballplayers among the celebrities-who’ve-eaten-here photos on the walls).

Indybrave: Hopefully we have time in Indy for a stop at St. Elmo. Goood food. (That’s all I remember from a trip there covering Dolphins many years ago).

CB

November 24th, 2009
8:28 am

DOB,will do. Thanks.

Braveheart

November 24th, 2009
8:33 am

An interesting old Gammons SI article from 1988 on the art & science of managing, where the five most important traits are identified as managing people, identifying talent, preparation & teaching, handling pitchers, & handling the media

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1067267/1/index.htm

It was interesting to read this about Chuck Tanner:

Leyland also believes that stressing fundamentals in a well-organized camp pays off during the season. Responses to game situations—holding runners on first, pitchers fielding their position, hitting the cutoff man—become automatic when they’ve been the subject of repeated drilling. Because players generally spend less time in the minors than they used to, teaching has become more important on the major league level. Some managers, like Chuck Tanner of the Atlanta Braves, seem to have coaches simply because the game requires their presence—at least in the third-and first-base coaching boxes—but the trend is toward using staffs to teach, just as NFL head coaches employ their assistants as specialized instructors.

indybrave

November 24th, 2009
8:35 am

That’s a great spot and The Slippery Noodle is a good place for a drink.

Fischerking04

November 24th, 2009
8:39 am

Thanks DOB great article!

“…or another trade possibly involving some younger Braves talent not named Heyward, Hanson or Jurrjens.”

Wasn’t Freeman on the “Untouchables” list last year? It seems like this year he has been kind of left out (not just by you, but others as well) and I was wondering if that was on purpose or if I’m just mistaken.

Also, after TWO pics of P. Cruz I must say that you should next turn your attention to Monica Bellucci. It doesn’t matter if she has a movie coming out or not. Incredibly hot.

TennesseePaul

November 24th, 2009
8:52 am

but last year people put a notch on the door frame of everyone we missed

(raises hand) Guilty as charged. But don’t think I wouldn’t do it all over again. The public swings and misses were bad for the team morale… just ask Tim Hudson. Glad Wren learned his lesson.

Jeff R

November 24th, 2009
8:53 am

Eastern-style NC BBQ is the best. I can eat buckets of the stuff.

Wrote it in the previous post: Braves should offer arbitration to Gonzo, Soriano and LaRoche. I’d be surprised if either Gonzo or Soriano would accept, and I can’t imagine Soriano not being offered at least a two-year deal somewhere. The upside for the Braves are two 1st Round draft picks.

I think LaRoche signs elsewhere if he gets a multiyear deal in the $9 million range. But if the market isn’t there for him, he might be open to go the arbitration route with Braves.

Signing LaRoche for one year at, say, $9 million is pricier than signing Cameron, who’s not even a first baseman and has age issues, but if Wren can move Lowe, then the budget has room for LaRoche.

I’ll say this again, too, if Wren moves Vazquez, he needs a solid return, not just budget return.

Bank Walker, Texas Ranger

November 24th, 2009
8:54 am

Sandwich pick might not be that bad, I think McCann was a sandwich pick. I just don’t know if anyone would pay 8-9 mil for AL. And speaking of sandwich pick, slaw or no-slaw on your sandwich?

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
8:55 am

Ah, a fresh blog. I feel clean now.

You do realize that all those names you mentioned will be reported in the rumor mill as deals that are already in the works. Have you ever tracked your stories to see where they get linked and how they get stretched into something you didn’t even say?

The Braves were a playoff team in the second half last year, even with a slumping Chipper and McCann and without the “big bat” they’re targeting this offseason. Of course, LaRoche and Diaz were playing out of their minds, so it all probably averages out. Either way, I’m optimistic about next year even if they don’t add a “big bat.” With the starting pitching they have (and the scary thing is it could be even better this year), anything is possible.

Don’t get me wrong, if they can find a productive right-handed bat to put in the lineup at a reasonable cost, go for it. But I’m not buying into the idea of making a desperation move and unloading a bounty of prospects just to get someone that can hit more than 25 homeruns.

Of course, Glavine and Maddux did say chicks love the longball. Maybe this is all about trying to get more “talent” into the stands for home games.

LeRoy

November 24th, 2009
8:58 am

No way the Braves are going to get both Cameron and Dye.

There’s a reason that Dye left, and Cox didn’t want Cameron a couple of years ago.

With Heyward coming up, that would mean that Cox would have to play 3 brothers.

Aint gonna happen my friend

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
9:04 am

What does everyone think of this idea? Trade for Bobby Jenks. Guy is a premiere closer and the Sox are sure to try and get rid of him, and what if its just that atmosphere that Guillen and WIlliams are giving off as to the reason why Jenks was off last year? Might be cheaper option to Wagner. Who knows.

Opinions or thoughts?

raleighbravefan

November 24th, 2009
9:04 am

DOB – Eastern NC BBQ RULES. Parkers and Bills are great, along with a dozen others in eastern NC. I personally prefer the Creamery over Dicks, but a good hot dog is hard to beat.

Daybed Wagmoe

November 24th, 2009
9:04 am

DOB — Thanks for the new blog and the refresher on the Braves’ offseason situation. I miss the days when the Braves had strong-hitting outfielders. We haven’t had a 20+ HR guy out there since Andruw in 2007, and that was a bad year by his standards. That’s pretty sad.

On a somewhat-related note, it’s kinda interesting to see the role the home run has played for the Braves in recent years. In 2006, the Braves hit 222 of them and had the most in the NL, yet they finished below .500 for the first time in years that year and were out of the playoff race by August, thus ending their 14-year streak. This season, they weren’t an offensively strong team (although I was surprised to learn that they were 10th in HR this season), but they were in the playoff picture up through game 156.

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
9:05 am

LeRoy: With Heyward coming up, that would mean that Cox would have to play 3 brothers.

I didn’t know those guys were brothers. That would be tricky to put three brothers in the outfield. I know I always fight with my brothers, so Bobby would probably feel more like a parent than a manager, always trying to break up those “brotherly” disputes. Maybe we can trade for Colby Rasmus so he and Cory and play together, and bring the Boone brothers out of retirement. Then the Braves can be the “baseball’s team of brothers.” That would sell tickets.

Oh wait, did I misinterpret?

Jay212033

November 24th, 2009
9:08 am

LaRoche will get a multi-year deal from several teams reguardless if the Braves offered him arbitration.

MitchC

November 24th, 2009
9:09 am

Dave, of the things you mentioned, two stand out. I really dont want us to trade Javy Vazquez. I’ve been saying that for months. I think it would be a huge mistake. He’s too young, and has too much of an upside.

Also, I would rather keep Gonzalez, as opposed to getting Wagner. Wagner’s too old, and missed almost two years due to TJ surgery. It’s a huge risk to have a 38 year old closer with his health history, and nothing in reserve. If we cant keep Sori, then hopefully we can keep Gonzo, and getting Wagner wont be an issue then.

My bet, as much as I hate to say it, is that we end up trading Vazquez, and keeping Lowe.

Of our other free agents, I think it imperative we keep Laroche. He’s still young, and has great power. The other possible guys you mentioned, strike out too much. Plus, if Laroche goes, we then need two hitters, not one. The idea is to add a hitter to the lineup, not subtract.

Glen W

November 24th, 2009
9:11 am

DOB – nice blog, Thanks for the updates.

I am not sure why no one is talking about Hank Blalock. I would think that it would be ideal to sign a 1B who could slide over to 3B if Chipper has to miss significant time. I think it’s easier to find a backup 1B who is productive with the bat than a backup 3B. With most teams carrying 12+ pitchers, the backup infielder on the roster needs to be able to play in the middle of the infield.

I know Dero would be attractive for the same reason. But it seems there will be much more competition for Dero than Blalock.

I know Blalock hits lefty, but if they find a right handed bat that can play a corner OF position. I think Blalock could make a lot of sense.

I think having a plan to keep some punch in the lineup if Chipper misses significant time should be a huge consideration around who they get to play 1B.

coach joe

November 24th, 2009
9:11 am

GREAT BLOG.Thanks for sll the info.. my thanksgiving week braves fix

GO SAINTS!!!

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
9:12 am

Daybed Wagmoe,

Good points about the role of the homerun. The Rangers are proof enough that you can be at the top of the league in that category and still suck if you can’t keep the other team from scoring. Offense, and more specifically, slugging, will always get most of the attention in baseball. But that’s what I love about baseball, there are so many aspects to the game that are equally important, but largely under-appreciated. Honestly, my favorite thing to see is a well-turned double play. It’s a thing of beauty. I could do without the longballs.

braves4ever

November 24th, 2009
9:19 am

DOB, that was a great blog, kudos to you! great off season reading and interesting thoughts. I will say that your fixation on Penelope is stronger than all of Braves nation was for Peavy, go DOB.
enjoy your time in NC and happy Thanksgiving to ya.

beekay

November 24th, 2009
9:20 am

Saw the Sporting News top free agents at each position and Gonzo was #5 reliever, Soriano did not make the top 5. I find it hard to believe that Rodney and Wagner and others are better than Sori…….haven’t heard Johnny Damon mentioned by anyone, not sure what he would cost but he would be a heck of alot better than Loaf was

DAP

November 24th, 2009
9:21 am

glen wI am not sure why no one is talking about Hank Blalock.

maybe it has something to do with that .277 OBP he put up last year. his stats are all over the place year to year, theres no telling what he would do.

And Idiot

November 24th, 2009
9:23 am

O.J.

Been thinking the same thing about Jenks. Wonder what they’d want/need in return? That one probably waits a bit, though. At least until after the arbitration ordeal with our closer tandem.

ChipChop

November 24th, 2009
9:23 am

DOB, that picture of Parker’s BBQ is just WRONG, man! I love that place! No place on earth has BBQ like Eastern North Carolina. I live in Western North Carolina and it’s just not the same. On the Braves front, I have to think that there’s something better available than Xavier Nady at first base. Got to be. He barely even saw the field last season before he was injured. Not quite the player Atlanta wants to rely on to provide the power they need. I had read Derrick Lee may be available and that would be interesting for a season or two. Would the budget allow Atlanta to deal for Lee, sign Mark Derosa & Mike Cameron and trade Derek Lowe for prospects or relief help plus an extra outfield bat? Then, the Braves could let Martin Prado go back to being an utility player.

TedBob

November 24th, 2009
9:26 am

What about (dare I ask) Smoltz back in the pen as the RH closer and Gonzo as the LH closer? I’d wave bye to Soriano.

ChipChop

November 24th, 2009
9:26 am

About Jermaine Dye. Has anyone ever met him? He’s hardly the community service volunteer that Atlanta has grown accustomed to. I went to spring training back when Atlanta was in West Palm Beach and Dye was about to make the big club and he was hardly even professionally friendly. The rest of the players were cool. We stayed in the hotel that some of them stayed in including Bobby Cox.

Jay212033

November 24th, 2009
9:31 am

ChipChop

Why would you not want Prado at 2B? He could put up numbers comparable to what DeRosa could for far less money.

ChippersLoveChild

November 24th, 2009
9:31 am

Cameron is going to make 8 or 9 million. Five mill won’t cut it.

new cars

November 24th, 2009
9:32 am

DPelfrey,
There is a precedent. The Alou brother, Felipe, Matty and Jesus came up together with Giants in the 1960s. The brothers Alou made baseball history at the Polo Grounds in New York September 10, 1963, as they batted consecutive in the order.

On a serious note, I hope we can be patient and wait for the after Christmas markdowns as far as our purchases. On the selling front, I say that just as soon as Lackey and Halladay are figured out, we put the pressure on potential trading partners to move Lowe and/or Vazquez. I really want one of those big boppers, but I think Fielder, D. Lee, Berkman and A. Gonzalez are going to cost too much.
How about Cameron in cf and batting 8th and a combo of Delgado or Blaylock and J. Dye at 1b. I think Dye may have more in the tank than he’s getting credit for and the other two would give us more bang for our buck than Adam. I just don’t see paying Laroche 9-10 million. He’s a mid-level 1b at best.

BravesfaninWis

November 24th, 2009
9:34 am

Thanks for the new blog DOB.

I am looking forward to the next couple of weeks when things will start picking up as far as free agency and trades. It will be nice to see what our team will be looking like next season.

DOB, do you know ahead of time what games you will be covering on the road? If you are in Milwaukee next season I would like to meet you and buy you a beer or a famous Wisconsin brat, or both :) Just a thanks for all you do for us fans on this site.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
9:42 am

1) Is anybody curious about the hype from 680 the fan that Gary Sheffield apparently wants to play in Atlanta or TB? Any chance he plays a passable first base? If so I could see a vague chance of buying him and Dye and hoping that works for 1b and RF until Heyward is up.

It also brings back 2 former Braves as well as 2 african americans which that one guy yesterday went on and on about being important.

2) N8 – I think type a and b draft pick compensation changes next labor negotiation. Probably no more losing/gaining 1st rounders as the Yankees broke that system last year. Maybe no more requirement to offer arbitration as you’re losing the player either way.

New system without the arbitration requirement could look like this: Type A free agent gets you 2 sandwich picks , 1 after 1st round, 1 after 2nd round. Type b gets you 1 after 2nd round and another after 3rd round. Much simpler process and it doesn’t hurt the players ability to sell their services to the team of their choice like the current system does.

There are no picks lost, only created, so the original team either retains the player or gets picks. These picks are still quite good, but don’t require multi-million signing bonuses. Since the team losing the player was too cheap to re-sign him in many cases, it’s probably a good thing that the pick to replace him doesn’t require forking over millions of dollars to sign.

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
9:42 am

OMG, Smoltz is not coming back to close people, can we please stop beating that dead horse?

Hey MB

November 24th, 2009
9:46 am

Do you guys even run spell check?

“Atlnta’s”

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
9:47 am

Well, the White Sox could probably use a 2nd baseman since they traded away Getz. How bout Kelly Johnson and a minor league arm for Jenks?

ncscoots

November 24th, 2009
9:48 am

The Rangers are proof enough that you can be at the top of the league in that category and still suck if you can’t keep the other team from scoring.

As last year’s Braves are proof enough that run prevention is futile if you can’t score. Braves surrendered their fewest runs since 2002 and second fewest going all the way back to 1998, yet their run differential was only about 90 runs. Many here talk about the second half, and how the team was as good as anybody, and they still averaged fewer than 5 runs a game during that span. In the end, the pitching wasn’t enough, and the offense at its best wasn’t enough.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
9:49 am

Spell check, on a blog? No, most people don’t run spell check for something as trivial as a blog post. I just glanced at my screen and I don’t even have a spell check icon.

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
9:52 am

new cars,

My “brothers” comments were made tongue in cheek, go back and read LeRoy’s post before and it’ll make sense.

beekay

November 24th, 2009
9:54 am

Was in Boston over the weekend and hung out with a sox season ticket holder, he told me D-Lowe went out way too much and was always sauced. He said the guy was one big mess and they had to finally cut ties after he embarassed the owners one night out…DOB have you heard anything about him changing his life style since? If not I wonder if his boozing would scare teams away from taking on 45 mill.

37YrBravesFan

November 24th, 2009
9:54 am

*Gasp* Thanks DOB for a new blog. Us everydayers have been driven to playing AJC’s “Can You See the Changes?” we’re so bored.

Have a great Thanksgiving. Feb 14 is around the corner!!!

GO BRAVES!!

VaBraveFan

November 24th, 2009
9:57 am

Sheffield i wouldnt mind seeing. I much rather have Sheff over Church for sure. Sheff should only garner around 1-2 million. I could see him playing a little 1st base and outfield and being a nice option coming off the bench late in games.

Prado put great numbers up and is gonna be the starting 2nd baseman. If he declines he fits perfect as a utility guy like Infante.

They should only sign Jermaine Dye if he comes at a low salary and i’m talking around no more than 4 million. I mean Loaf got 2 million. Dye only upgrades power over him so i dont see dye getting much more.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
10:00 am

ThisYear’s free agency has 3 categories.
1.Superstar
Bay,Holliday,Lackey

2.So-So Servicable
LaRoche,Derosa,Nady etc.

#3 Geriatric club
Cameron,Anderson,Smoltz,and
Porter Wagner

mike from the coast

November 24th, 2009
10:01 am

Dave has it ever been mentioned about moving Lowe to closer? It seems his problems arose around the 4th, 5th, or 6th innings later in the year. And didn’t he pitch in that roll sometime in the past?

VaBraveFan

November 24th, 2009
10:01 am

MLBTR

Another big bat might be on the Trade market. M.Cabrera from the Tigers. He’s owed 126 million up to 2015. Tigers are letting it be known they are trying to get salary relief.

brent a.

November 24th, 2009
10:02 am

I was once offered a job in Wilson, NC. Took a job in Atlanta instead.

Two years later . . . I was living in Houston.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
10:02 am

how bout send D.lowe to the ANGELS, PROSPECTS TO THE WHITE SOX, AND KONERKO TO THE BRAVES?

And Idiot

November 24th, 2009
10:11 am

O.J. @ 9:47

It would sound good except that KJ will probably be gone by trade or non-tender by the time we get around to that deal. Gotta figure we’d wait until after arbitration offer/accept period with Gonzo and Soriano. How ’bout Conrad instead?

I like the chances because of friction among Jenks, Guillen, and Williams and a history between the Sox and Braves. But the reason for the friction worries me – Jenks’ conditioning habits.

Frank Robinson (Rockmart)

November 24th, 2009
10:15 am

DOB,
Loving the title for this blog. And I certainly hope it does. The suspense is killing me!

Braves 4 Life

November 24th, 2009
10:16 am

VaBraveFan- I saw the same rumor on ESPN that the Tigers are in to trading M.Cabrera. Buster Onley listed 6 or 7 teams that may be interested and the Braves were one. In his post he said he couldn’t see the Tigers being able to trade him without eating tens of millions of dollars. It would nice for the Braves to be the vulture praying over the Tiger’s prized 1B/3B. Getting rid of D. Lowe (15MM) and the projected Arb figure for Adam Laroche ($7MM to $10MM) is greater than M. Cabrera’s 20MM salary this year. Now if only we could talk the Tigers into eating some contract in years 2013, 2014, and 2015.

Clint

November 24th, 2009
10:17 am

I know this might sound crazy, but how about Freeman, Lowe and some A ballers with upside for Miguel Cabrera? Have the Tigers throw in 4 million a year over the 6 years left on Cabrera’s contract and the $ per year is a wash for the Braves, but would save the Tigers 45 million over the life of contract. The Braves get a real “big bopper” for the line up, the Tigers get their first basemen of the future, some additional farm system depth, a serviceable mid rotation arm, and some much needed salary relief.

Notes on contracts: Cabrera- 6 years at 19 million / year left on contract, Lowe- 3 years with 15 million / year left on contract.

Efrim

November 24th, 2009
10:18 am

New system without the arbitration requirement could look like this

I’m for any system that doesn’t mean you have to give up a first round pick for a relief pitcher. It’s absurd.

Clint

November 24th, 2009
10:19 am

Didn’t see that VaBrave just posted the Miggy note. I really think this could work though!

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
10:20 am

I dont think conditioning has anything to do with it honestly, i mean its not like he is obsessively obese. Bob Wickman was a decent closer for the longest time and he was much larger than Jenks is. I think he needs to have a change a scenery like Vazquez did.

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
10:20 am

nscoots…

The combined offense and pitching in the 2nd half last year was good enough for a 43-31 record (43-25 if you exclude the last 6 games where they effectively gave up). Project that over a full season and you have a 95-win team and most assuredly a spot in the postseason.

The Braves have a payroll under $100 million, which prohibits them from spending and trading at will to assemble a great rotation, great offense, great defense and great bullpen. Vast improvements in one area mean sacrifices in other areas. The Braves lost in 2008 because of the starting pitching, so Wren went out and stocked up on pitching, without doing much to improve the offense (unless you think Loaf worked out well). I think we could all agree that we were nervous about the offense heading into this past season. Now the pendulum has swung back in the other direction. I just hope that all the resources aren’t spent on adding an expensive “big bat” while sacrificing on defense and in the bullpen.

My point is it’s not all about runs per game. It’s about wins, and it takes a reasonably balanced offense, defense and pitching to win more than you lose, except in very rare occasions.

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
10:27 am

Clint you are way off on Cabrera’s contract numbers bud. Here’s how it breaks down

2010: $20 Million
2011: $20 Million
2012: $21 Million
2013: $21 Million
2014: $22 Million
2015: $22 Million

Thats an average of 21 million per year, not 19.

Braves 4 Life

November 24th, 2009
10:28 am

Clint- Your figures for Miggy are off by a little. These are his figures according to Cots Baseball Contracts: 10:$20M, 11:$20M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$22M, 15:$22M

njbraves

November 24th, 2009
10:29 am

Adding Cameron/Dye and Wagner will land this team in 3rd place again. Great.

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
10:30 am

Besides, Braves do not have that kind of flexibility to take on that kind of payroll for 6 years.

And Idiot

November 24th, 2009
10:30 am

Hey, Jenks’ conditioning issues come from his bosses with the Sox, not me. And they don’t seem willing to just let the issue die. Re this link:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091123&content_id=7707382&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

I like the guy and see this trade idea as a double win for me. Unless we deal a RP back to them, maybe it opens a job for a friend of mine who has closed for several of their minor league teams and has had a few cups of coffee with the big club.

Lew

November 24th, 2009
10:31 am

Joe Brave-How about no way to Konerko?

And for some of the rest of y’all-Why would anyone trade for Kelly Johnson when there is a good chance of him being non tendered in a few days? Think Marcus Giles here, people. Why trade players and stick yourself with a close to $4 mil arbitration award when you could potentially pick him up on a mInor league contract in a week?

Lew

November 24th, 2009
10:33 am

And the Braves will never consider picking up over $120 million (and an average of more than $20 mil per year-more than 1/5 of their ayroll) for Cabrera-even if he hadn’t blown a three times legal limit on a breathalizer the night before a one game playoff. Start using some sense (since?) here.

Braveheart

November 24th, 2009
10:38 am

I dont think conditioning has anything to do with it honestly, i mean its not like he is obsessively obese. Bob Wickman was a decent closer for the longest time and he was much larger than Jenks is.

Wickman was a serviceable closer, but remember when he nearly stroked out in Colorado in early 2007 because he was too fat to be a mile high?

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
10:38 am

Everyone who thinks Cameron is a bad idea think again. He would of led the Braves in homers besides Laroche. NO hes not a clean up but hes a solid consistent hitter with pop that can hit around 7 or 8. His defense is still way above average. With Cameron, McClouth and Diaz in the outfield we can cut down the triples that should of been only doubles last year.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
10:38 am

Lew, why not Konerko?

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
10:39 am

Cabrera has a well documented drinking problem…it has even been a major topic of discussion by the in-house ex-GM’s on XM. Evidently there were issues with him in Florida that didn’t become public, and of course there are the few documented issues in Detroit. I doubt those issues, coupled with his 21m average price tag make him desirable at all to Wren. Besides, even with out the problems, Wren has stated you can’t put that kind of money into a single player. DOB, was Cabrera with FL when you covered them?

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
10:39 am

Braves 4 Life

November 24th, 2009
10:16 am
VaBraveFan- I saw the same rumor on ESPN that the Tigers are in to trading M.Cabrera. Buster Onley listed 6 or 7 teams that may be interested and the Braves were one. In his post he said he couldn’t see the Tigers being able to trade him without eating tens of millions of dollars. It would nice for the Braves to be the vulture praying over the Tiger’s prized 1B/3B. Getting rid of D. Lowe (15MM) and the projected Arb figure for Adam Laroche ($7MM to $10MM) is greater than M. Cabrera’s 20MM salary this year. Now if only we could talk the Tigers into eating some contract in years 2013, 2014, and 2015.

I 100% agree here. Cabrera = Stud on the field. If his off the field issues are just a 1 time thing, which I trust the organization to figure out, then this could be among the biggest gift trades the Tigers have given us. That’s saying a lot since they already handed us Smoltz and Jurrjens.

I am firmly of the belief that we can trade away Lowe and reallocate his money to a cleanup hitting bat. Now we hear that a guy who was in the running for MVP is available and apparently cheaply! Between him and A. Gonzalez, I like Miggy more because he’s already locked into a 6 year contract and he should cost less in prospects as the Tigers “need” to make this trade even more than the Padres “need” to trade Adrian. Both are salary dumps, but I figure the 20M a year figure makes it more pressing to dump Miggy.

I’d love this even more if Lowe is in the trade. We solve two of our issues with one move! Freeman could also be included since we just planned our 1b spot for 6 years. Miggy is no more likely to be injured than Freeman so that’s the kind of risk you have to take with a limited payroll.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
10:41 am

Lost my long post, but I LOVE the idea of getting Miggy on a salary dump deal!

Lew

November 24th, 2009
10:43 am

Joe-I’d rather have LaRoche on a several year deal at $9 mil per than a one year rental of Konerko at $12 mil AND have to give up players to get him. I don’t think he’ll hit for the same power in Atlanta and I’d rather give up players for more than a one year player if that’s the way they go. I’d rather sign someone off the FA rolls if it’s to be a one year stop gap.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
10:44 am

Does the Lowe drinking problem mentioned above cancel out the Cabrera drinking problem? Is Cabrera for sure worse, or is there some bias here? I trust the organization to figure it out. This all seems to fit together pretty well for both teams.

siskel_god

November 24th, 2009
10:44 am

I offer all three (Sori, Gonzo, and LaRoche) arb because there is no way Gonzo takes it, and if Adam and Sori take it, so what. Probably close to 18-20 mil for those two guys for one year wouldn’t be the end of the world especially if you can move Lowe for prospects and salary relief. One hole to fill in left with a guy like JD or Cameron would be okay especially if Heyward is ready by June. My preference would be to lock up Adam long term, I don’t care what his first half numbers look like over his career, guys who hit 270-280 with 25 bombs a year are not a dime a dozen, especially gold glove caliber first basemen. Then we would have a valuable trade chip in Freddie Freeman or, move him back to third where he played in high school to replace Chipper. If Youk, Pujols, and Pedro Alvarez can move back and forth across the diamond then it shouldn’t be impossible for Freeman to do it. Besides who knows if Freddie or even Jason Heyward are gonna be great, at least you know Adam is good. A bird in the hand…..Anywho, if you offer all three arb, then they prolly all three reject it so a no lose situation IMO.

ChipChop

November 24th, 2009
10:45 am

JoeBrave, not bad. I’d definitely have to look at moving D Lowe and ending up with Paul Konerko. He’s definitely a better bridge to Freddie Freeman than some that I have heard.

siskel_god

November 24th, 2009
10:46 am

Forgot about Cabrera’s drinking problems, maybe if we had him last year Rafael Furcal would’ve signed

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
10:47 am

Miggy would be nice but in order to do it you would have to move Lowe. Moving Lowe would mean an extension for Vazquez that hopefully would be cheaper than what hes making now. If the Tigers would eat some of the money until Chipper retires than you have the money to keep him. The problem is by the time Chipper retires it will be close to time to lock up McCann and will Miggy still be productive over the course of his contract with him getting more and more physically unfit.

Lew

November 24th, 2009
10:47 am

ugaaccountant-Cabreara will never play in ATlanta. He is just not the type of player they target for the team. He will not be playing with a Tomahawk on his uniform-even if they DO eat salary. The Braves just don’t take on that kind of player, no matter how good they might be.

But WTF-people will still claim that we want Cabrera and Meltdown Bradley because some hack mentioned an interest-beyond the pale of any logic and knowledge of how the Braves conduct business.

RHR

November 24th, 2009
10:47 am

FOC – ha. Love that.

Nice photo selection…you’ve got Penelope for the guys…..KJ for those other guys…and a cartoon in underwear and various other old guys for everyone else. Not offseason chatter to get excited about this year for sure…I guess the best possible thing we can hope for is for Lowe and his entire contract to be another team’s problem come February..and Javy extended for a couple years…looks like the only bat we’ll be getting will be something along the lines of Loaf. Guarantee whoever it is won’t be nearly as much fun as my man Loaf was with his professional at bats.

Wickman was a serviceable closer

Braveheart already in the wild turkey this morning?

Happy Thanksgiving and safe travels to all. :)

Clint

November 24th, 2009
10:48 am

They blew 15 million a year on a suposed “Ace.” I’m just saying that if they could move Lowe’s salary, and not take on a huge amount more per year, it might be worth looking at. (sorry for the money mix up, I was looking at a quote that had MC at an average of 19 million from 2009 to the end of the contract, but didn’t take into account that he made “only” 15 million this year) I don’t care if he blew 10X the legal limit as long as he produces, which he does. The Braves are trying to win a championship not a morality contest.

CB

November 24th, 2009
10:51 am

Is it not sensible to also think Chipper might be willing to restructure his contract if he knew Cabrera was a possibility? He has shown over the years to be willing to do this,he also knows this might be his last chance to go out a champion. I know the Braves don’t normally do these types of deals,but they need a Cabrera type to get to the next level.

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
10:51 am

Bravesheart…that’s why I always called Wickman “Cheeseburger Heart Attack”

He always looked like he either had indigestion from eating a cheeseburger or was about to drop dead from a heart attack.

LivinInAL

November 24th, 2009
10:54 am

Did the contract that Lowe negotiated with the Braves contain any trade stipulations?

Geoff

November 24th, 2009
10:54 am

DOB – While an important goal of the Braves seems to trade one of their starters to either re-up Vasquez to a longer term deal or get a RH poer bat, is there any concern within the organization that they dont have a LH Starting Pitcher?

And Idiot

November 24th, 2009
10:55 am

Cabrera, the ball player = ;)

Cabrera, the party animal = ;(

Cabrera, the payroll black hole = ;(

Getting the Tigers to take Lowe and give us the difference between the salaries, using him for the same price and contract length as Lowe (yes, I know there’s time/money left – be patient), and then trade him to the Yankees after all their old farts fade away = :)

Even talking about this comes solely from hot stove boredom and has no basis in reality, but it’s better than logging off and working = ;)

Besides, this blog needs something to get Lew’s blood pressure up! Haven’t seen a truly special “And Idiot” rave from him today! = ;)

Braves 4 Life

November 24th, 2009
10:57 am

Lew- I think that you are off in your statement that the Braves “will never consider picking up over $120 million” in contract over six years. You grossly oversimpliefied my post. My post had several key points and was never lets recklessly take on this huge contract. To summarize if the Braves are able to dump Lowe than that’s $45 million subtracted from the $120M and if the Tigers agree to eat some contract (as Buster Onley says they may be open to) that’s even more. We should structure the deal to meet the Tigers situation and that is that they need contract relief immediately. So I would propose taking on Cabrera’s full salary for the first three years and then asking them to cover us in the last three years of the deal for a total of $19M ($6M in 2013 and 14 + $7M in 2015). May not be the answer but is definitely considerable.

Braves 4 Life

November 24th, 2009
10:59 am

Lew- Buster Onley is not some hack. He is the MAIN columnist for ESPN insider. I really don’t think we have to debate his credibility.

Jeff R

November 24th, 2009
11:01 am

Why would Wren pay Konerko for one-year more than he’d pay LaRoche? Granted, LaRoche might pass on arbitration, if the right offers are on the table, but its well worth making a run at him, even if it’s just for 2010.

LaRoche is a known quantity who fits into the team nicely, both on the field and in the locker room. Through arbitration, he may command $9 million, I’d guess.

I’d prefer Wren sign LaRoche to a multiyear deal, but I’m not expecting it.

Braves 4 Life

November 24th, 2009
11:01 am

Buster Olney sorry typo

P-Town Brave

November 24th, 2009
11:03 am

18-

His best friend plays for the Braves…

This goes for everyone else as well…I’m sure that if he’s available, then Martin is in Frank’s office or on his phone lobbying as hard as humanly possible to get Miggy to Atlanta.

I wouldn’t mind having him one bit either…last legit power hitter we had was Shef.

P-Town Brave

November 24th, 2009
11:04 am

Apparently the Braves have a new broadcasting team in the booth for next year….

cvbraves

November 24th, 2009
11:05 am

Happy Thanksgiving, folks!

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
11:09 am

Jeff, one would think that LaRoche isn’t taking a one year deal, and Freeman is not going to be blocked!

Don

November 24th, 2009
11:10 am

The Braves offense does not need an additional bat nearly as badly as it needs a manager who knows how to manage the offense. Just his complete failure to teach, emphasize, demand working the count/ being selective/ making the opposing pitcher throw some pitches – alone costs the Braves at least 10 games per season. It is unbelievable that an manager could manage for over 20 years and not understand the absolute necessity of this. It guarantees that we do not have consistant run production. And this does not even mention his continuous blunders in management procedures and lack thereof.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
11:14 am

chipperslovechild Cameron is going to make 8 or 9 million. Five mill won’t cut it.

are you his agent or something? no other way you could possibly know this information.

woody

November 24th, 2009
11:15 am

Braves!!?? ……Shut up will ya!

Don

November 24th, 2009
11:16 am

We must not trade away pitching. A pitcher or pitchers will be injured or will be ineffective. The only chance we have to be competitive with Cox managing is the slim chance that our pitching could be so far far superior to the other teams that it would overcome his incompetence and enable us to win the Division over the long 162 game regular season sechedule. This is the way it has always been.

stynes

November 24th, 2009
11:21 am

Yep, Don. Year after year after year it was all the Braves could do to overcome Cox’s imcompetence. Year after year after year. Good point.

CB

November 24th, 2009
11:23 am

P-Town- what did you hear about Braves broadcast team?

Clint

November 24th, 2009
11:23 am

Don, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but Francouer the hacker is not with the team any more. Chipper is a great OBP guy, B-Mac, Escobar, Prado, LaRoche are all solid OBP guys. Garret Anderson was putrid, but you can’t put that on Cox- he was that way his whole carreer. Saying he cost the team 10 wins a season because on not emphasizing pitch selection is not only false, but absurd.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
11:23 am

Clint “The Braves are trying to win a championship not a morality contest.”

Interesting and I agree. I’m not about to play morality police on pro athletes since most of them have one or more issues. His stats speak for themselves.

Rebutal anyone?

klaus

November 24th, 2009
11:24 am

Cameron and Dye are two guys who are heading into the twilight of their careers. I know they are practical but how do they make this a WS winner?

With the rotation the Braves possess it would be a waste to aim so low.

Wren is saying he wants the best players. They are not the best nor is Sheffield. Now if he said the best players I can get for next to nothing then I buy into this list. No offense.

Nothing with scream hold your nose we are broke folks then seeing Dye or Cameron in the OF and say Nady at 1B.

You need to get younger and quicker if you are broke. Not older and slower (legs and bat speed).

Don’t try to get a little more power blood out of two old stones. If you lack the funds to get a impact bat in his prime then go for speed and youth.

Hoping some dinosaur has one more season of 20-24hrs left in him is fool hardy.

Usually that hope is met with disappointment and millions out the window.

Stop the 4-1 player model and either get Bay or trade for Adrian G and offer him a big time extension.

We buy our pitchers at Norstroms and our hitters at K-Mart. That has to stop sooner or later.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
11:25 am

Is it not sensible to also think Chipper might be willing to restructure his contract if he knew Cabrera was a possibility? — CB

Restructure his contract before he’s even started it? That’d be a new one. (The $42 mill, three-year extension he signed last spring begins in 2010.)

Jeff R

November 24th, 2009
11:26 am

Joebrave… Don’t really disagree with you. But I’m not certain that LaRoche will be offered the sort of deal he wants: multiyear, $9 million plus per season. That’s why I thought arbitration may be a “safe harbor” for him until next winter.

As to a multiyear deal for LaRoche, the reason why I’m for it isn’t because I don’t like Freeman’s potential, I do. But for all of Freeman’s promise, he’s not a sure thing yet. Since the Braves don’t give no-trade clauses, Wren could shop LaRoche after the 2010 season. Just thoughts.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
11:27 am

JoeBrave – It never hurts to ask Laroche about a 1 year deal. Or 2. You and I have no idea what’s been discussed, other than knowing that Freeman is not ready for 2010, perfectly understandable since he’s barely 20.

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
11:27 am

Don-

We’re not going into this season with six starters, when 2 are studs making league minimum and the other 4 are making way to much to be bullpen fill-ins. We have Medlen, and later down the season Jo-Jo and Minor as back-ups. It’s pretty much a given that we will trade someone. It’d be a little crazy not to.

amicusterrae

November 24th, 2009
11:28 am

DOB,
Glad to hear you prefer the vinegar based NC BBQ. My parents grew up in Salisbury, NC, so that was how I was raised. Never liked the mustard BBQ in my native SC as much. Have fun on your trip and thanks for the blog update.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
11:28 am

Did the contract that Lowe negotiated with the Braves contain any trade stipulations? — LivinInAl

No, it did not.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
11:28 am

18 Wheels of Love: No, Cabrera wasn’t a Marlin when I covered the team.

BravesfaninWis

November 24th, 2009
11:28 am

Cabrera would fit in nicely in the 4th spot in our lineup, but I don’t think the Braves would want to take on his salary.

Daslied

November 24th, 2009
11:28 am

This Thanksgiving, I am thankful for Don. His inane ramblings make me feel better about myself.

CB

November 24th, 2009
11:29 am

DOB,you got me there. Maybe defer some of the payment? Really what I meant.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
11:31 am

No need to defer payment to Chipper if we move Lowe. Things aren’t nearly as complicated as people make them.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
11:33 am

1) Is anybody curious about the hype from 680 the fan that Gary Sheffield apparently wants to play in Atlanta or TB? — ugaaccountant

That’s not info from 680. It’s from Sheff’s quotes in Boston Globe Sunday article, which was referenced and discussed here on the blog.

Chris

November 24th, 2009
11:33 am

Greenville, NC. So that’s what’s wrong with you.

Lew

November 24th, 2009
11:36 am

ugaaccountant-The night before the Tigers played a one game playoff to determine who won their division, Cabreara was nailed for three times the legal limit and proceeded to go out and tank in that game. Seriously, given those circumstances, do you think he might have a bit of a problem? Talk about mailing it in at crunch time. Dude gives new meaning to that concept.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
11:38 am

p’cola With Cameron, McClouth and Diaz in the outfield we can cut down the triples that should of been only doubles last year.

im with you that cameron would be a solid addition, but i dont think thats the best way to sell it. :- )

Lew

November 24th, 2009
11:41 am

Braves4Life-No Dude, no oversimplification because it IS that simple. The Braves will never take on a $120 million in salary indebtedness nor will they pay $20-more than 20% of their entire salary structure on a single player. Why in hell do you even consider that they would? What in their recent history suggests such absurdity? I repeat. It ain’t happening-for several reasons. Hopes, Wishes and Dreams (Old Roy Thomas-Moody Blues-album) won’t make it any closer to a reality. Period.

Lew

November 24th, 2009
11:46 am

Braves4Life-Yes, I know Buster. He lives down the street from me in Vermont (literally less than two miles-his family are my neighbors). I’ve actually met the Dude and like him. He is a good journalist. However, he’s merely repeating rumors at this point in time. If you remember what DOB said earlier, that all the agents were taking any mention of a specific player’s name and calling it team interest? Buster is doing the same thing. Go back over the last couple of years and see how many predictions Buster made and how many actually reached fruition. Not many, I suspect.

ncscoots

November 24th, 2009
11:46 am

Lew, one would think that no ballplayer other than Cabrera ever played a game hung over, reading your comments. Mantle is only the most famous refutation of that notion.

It’s not that I’m such a big fan of the Braves acquiring the guy (I’d be more concerned about the way he’s porked up than what bottle he tips), but you’re hanging a scarlet A on the guy with a little extra gusto.

Let's Put Our Heads Together, and Start a New Rumor up

November 24th, 2009
11:46 am

Cabrera went 2-5 with a HR, 2b and a walk and 2 RBI. Just think if he was sober.

Tomas

November 24th, 2009
11:46 am

Ok the Miguel Cabrera situation. Huge contract, huge power numbers, and good defense at 1B. A good friend to Prado, and Blanco.

Derek Lowe, Jordan Schafer, Jo-jo Reyes, and Brandon Hicks for Miguel Cabrera. He is earning 22mill/per yr, getting him means no financial flexibility for the future, and he blocks Freddy Freeman.

Instead of just signing Jermaine Dye to a short term deal worth less than 10 mill/per yr.

Jermaine Dye is basically the same player as Derek Lee. Both are 6′5, weight 245, have almost the same amount of homers(with Dye having more in 82 extra games). Dye is one yr older. Lee has more AVG, OBP, and SLG, but not for much. And now both play 1B, with Lee having a couple of gold gloves over there.

Obviously Lee is the better player, but Dye doesn’t fall that far behind, and he can be had for half the price. He won’t even require a draft pick.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
11:50 am

ugaaccountant, there is one problem with your scenario,There is a market for Adam,and say a team ala San Fran,Oakland,Fla.,Cleveland offer him 3+ at 7 years, do you really think he is sticking around Atl for one at 9mill…would you?
Now if he signed on for two plus a third yr team option for 16 mill then I am all for it. but no longer.

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
11:50 am

Cabrera gets a little fatter every year. I think he’ll be washed-up in 3 years, then lounge around till contract season, get in shape, and have a good contract year.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
11:50 am

I’m well aware of what people have posted about Cabrera. I have said so several times. If you have a link to any analysis of this, i’ll happily read it as it is intriguing.

Does anyone know if showing up drunk to work is a violation of a MLB contract? If so, I think they’d have already cut ties with him.

Was it a DUI or something else?

Anyway, i’m sure we’ll have our answer eventually. Either they’ll move him to some team or we’ll know he’s drinking his career away.

Lew

November 24th, 2009
11:53 am

scoots-Dude, I’ll even admit to having been hung over once or twice in my life, too. Doesn’t make me wworth $20 mil a year.

There’s a big difference between playing a game hung over and registering 3 times the limit on a DUI the night before the single most important game of your entire season. I’m stunned you can’t tell the difference. If you can’t there is little reason to discuss this further. I always thought you had some sense-trying to prove me wrong here?

Lew

November 24th, 2009
11:55 am

A little extra gusto. Right.

Daslied

November 24th, 2009
11:56 am

ugaaccountant – I believe Cabrera’s wife called the cops on him, and he went downtown. He (or someone else) had to call Detroit’s GM to pick him up. So I don’t think there was driving involved, but I do believe there was a domestic disturbance?

Anyway, I’m not knocking him for drinking in his home. The timing, however, was incredibly suspect.

ncscoots

November 24th, 2009
11:56 am

If you can’t there is little reason to discuss this further.

Lew, I love ya, man, but that is becoming the case with you all too often, in more recent days.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
12:01 pm

The Braves offense does not need an additional bat nearly as badly as it needs a manager who knows how to manage the offense. — Don

Maybe someone could bring Don up to speed on the managerial situation, vis-a-vis the extension Cox signed at season’s end? Don, the manager isn’t changing until at least after the 2010 season. So I think most of us, we’re opting to talk about things that are relevant for the current offseason, actual changes or potential changes that will affect the team for the 2010 season. That, and BBQ.

But thanks for the input, as always.

Lew

November 24th, 2009
12:02 pm

scoots-I’m more of the opinion that you’ve become much more willing to find look for controversy than in the past. It’s all a matter of your point of view. For myself, I’m just becoming tired of trying to convince the unwashed masses not to eat the soap being thrown in their direction.

And Idiot

November 24th, 2009
12:02 pm

Didn’t David Wells admit to PUI (pitching under the influence)?

Fischerking04

November 24th, 2009
12:02 pm

For those giving M. Cabrera scenarios: The guy has been busted for booze problems a lot. And had some last year at very important times in the season. Now think about how much you have to give to get him, then think about how much we have to pay him. I doubt it.

He’s a head case that got a monster contract. Personally I would rather have Lowe’s smaller contract, no drama, and a guy that Bobby said was one of the hardest workers he’s ever seen. Cabrera is a talented guy that doesn’t realize what he has. No thank you.

Daslied

November 24th, 2009
12:04 pm

I sincerely hope that Bobby Favres us for, like, 8 straight years, just for Don/Robert/YAACA.

N8

November 24th, 2009
12:05 pm

“Besides, Braves do not have that kind of flexibility to take on that kind of payroll for 6 years.”

They would if the Tigers would eat some of that contract in the first 3 years while Chipper is still hear. Once Chipper, Hudson, and Lowe or Vazquez (if Lowe can’t be dumped, and Vazquez is extended or the other way around), are gone, there will be PLENTY of payrol flexibility in 3 years.

The real question is whether Cabrera will melt down in between now and then, and be worth that contract? Which is tough to predict. If not a raging alcoholic, and on top of his game the answer is yes. He’s that good. If not? Not so much.

But they’d probably want JJJ back. LOL

CB

November 24th, 2009
12:05 pm

Food fight! Clemson- Georgia! Can I sell tickets? Come on,guys- friendship ahead of opinions.

Bravesfan54

November 24th, 2009
12:09 pm

Dave – the way I see it, we will not get anything in return for Lowe – and that is perfectly all right with me. We are upside down with his contract and should thank our lucky stars if some other team takes him off of our hands. Even paying 1-4 mil of his salary is all “upside” to me, because we would be freeing up 11-15 mil in salary (times how many more years, isn’t it 3?) – a blessing, truly indeed.

I know this is heresey – and will understand if you have to “beat me down” for saying this, but I believe that Chipper Jones needs to be regularly spelled at 3B. Many on this blog will be hyping (make that “hopeing for) a “return to form” for CJ – but don’t hold your breath. The 100 point drop in BA, and a FA of .930 (or close to it)is rather telling of a skillset in free-fall. The Braves need to make adjustments to salvage what is left. Who knows maybe playing 100-120 games will be restorative of better production with bat and glove.

Lew

November 24th, 2009
12:09 pm

CB-I’m fine with scoots-always have been in the five seasons we’ve both been on the blog. He HAS become somewhat more contentious recently, but WTF-he’s scoots and that’s fine with me. But seriously, if you can’t tell the difference between an occasional hangover and getting tanked, beating on your wife and then tanking in one of the most important games of the entire season, well………Hell, let’s go find Doc Ellis. I hear he threw a no hitter while tripping on acid. Far out.

N8

November 24th, 2009
12:13 pm

“I sincerely hope that Bobby Favres us for, like, 8 straight years, just for Don/Robert/YAACA.” Daslied

Me too. Especially the part where he goes to another team. :-)

All kidding (and my curiosity in how a new manager will handle things) aside, I think Bobby’s retiring just might help in swaying some free agents to come this way. One last hooraw for the old skipper kind of deal. Might be a couple guys out there like Cameron who want to come to Atlanta and would like to play for Bobby that would take a one year deal for less than they would elsewhere.

Then again, maybe not. But seriously, this team has more important things to worry about (and we certainly have more important things to discuss) than Bobby Cox.

My goal/wish is that Wren makes this roster so good, they don’t have any choice but to win. LOL

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
12:13 pm

If Bobby cries at his retirement press conference, it will automatically invoke the ‘Favre’ clause on retirement that states “Any grown man that cries at his first and/or subsequent retirement press conference(s) forgoes the right to unretire and any given point going forward.”

Wide Awake Wilson

November 24th, 2009
12:16 pm

Hey DOB…Parker’s is better than Bill’s (just a little advice from a Wilson native) well at least the BBQ

nolie

November 24th, 2009
12:17 pm

am not sure why no one is talking about Hank Blalock

maybe because his numbers away from Texas park are nothing to write home about

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
12:19 pm

Please, for the love of all that is sacred, do not mention Clemson on this board, especially during this rival week. Invoking mental images of puke orange and god awful purple pants is enough to drive one crazy. Throw in fans in orange overalls and accents worse than mine and it’s just too much. And god forbid Spurrier lose 2 years in a row to a clown named Dabo. Hopefully my Gamecocks wipe the field with their orange arses…we certainly are due. But hey, congrats for making ACC ‘title’ game against Tech. Here’s to hoping they beat you 2 times in one year. I hate Clemson.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
12:19 pm

bravesfan54The 100 point drop in BA, and a FA of .930 (or close to it)is rather telling of a skillset in free-fall.

id say thats a little unfair seeing how the 100 point drop in BA was from a career and 2008 major league high .364. thats insanely high. its also un fair since chipper still batted over .300 in april and may, and had a pretty good july, batting .284 with an OPS over .900 before having a poor final two months. as far as his hitting goes, id say it was a short enough period of time to be considered a slump.

defensively, he was bad, but i dont think the braves have a good reason no to play him when he is able.

ATXRainDog

November 24th, 2009
12:24 pm

DOB, nice call on the Glitter & Doom album… I totally forgot that was coming out. I went to the Dallas show, and it was just incredible. He is such a showman. Closed w/ ‘Time,’ too… doesn’t get much better than that.

As for the BBQ, I’m a NC guy originally (Hickory area)… transplanted in Austin. Now, I love me some Austin, and I love me some brisket, but my god… I am envious of your BBQ excursions. When you’re chowing down on some righteous vinegar-based pulled pork, please remember those of us who have to deal w/ the bastardized manwich version that seems to be the only pulled pork recipe anyone outside of the proper south is aware of. Eat an extra sandwich for a fellow rain dog.

Oh, and speaking of bastards, do you listen to Heartless Bastards? I can’t recommend ‘The Mountain’ enough. They came to town w/ Wolfmother a few weeks back, and I got to check them out… great show.

braveman

November 24th, 2009
12:27 pm

i had forgotten that chipper’s contract extension starts this year… and all anyone can talk about is lowe’s awful contract. i guess because there is just no way you could move chipper…

wren has been very aggressive and i think he has done a lot for this organization… but with those two contracts, he really dropped the ball.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
12:30 pm

nolie, you need to go look at Blalock’s splits before you make that statement, my friend you are wrong!

Billy Walsh

November 24th, 2009
12:31 pm

Nolie,

If you look at Blalock’s numbers this year, his road splits are better than his home splits. The question isnt whether Blalock can hit, the question is can he play 150+ games.

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
12:35 pm

Where are all the comments going???

nolie

November 24th, 2009
12:36 pm

Buster Onley is not some hack. He is the MAIN columnist for ESPN insider. I really don’t think we have to debate his credibility. Braves 4

oh yeah, like a few weeks ago when he devoted a lot of ink to the Braves trading Vazquez to Texas, without ever mentioning that there was a no trade clause blocking it. they can all be hacks at times.pressure to get out the story first can lead to failure to do due diligence at times

VaBraveFan

November 24th, 2009
12:37 pm

Braveman

Signing Lowe was a must at the time! and Resigning Chipper is a no brainer.

Tomas

Derek Lee is way better Than Jermaine Dye lol, in the batter’s box and on the field. Oh yeah and Dye isnt gonna be making 10 million next year more like 5 or less. Good Example Tomas Bobby Abreu signed for a measly 5 million last season and Abreu has always been better than Dye.

nolie

November 24th, 2009
12:38 pm

but remember when he nearly stroked out in Colorado in early 2007 because he was too fat to be a mile high? BH

does this mean that there are no obese people in Denver?

Lew

November 24th, 2009
12:42 pm

nolie-apparently none that can save games.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
12:46 pm

ill add that chipper was hitting over .300 as late as august 15th. he had a super slump that killed his average.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
12:53 pm

billy walsh</strong.The question isnt whether Blalock can hit, the question is can he play 150+ games.

no, i think the question is can he get on base enough to be a major league baseball player. .277 OBP is something to write home about. as in “youre not gonna believe how bad this guy is”.

nolie

November 24th, 2009
12:54 pm

nolie, you need to go look at Blalock’s splits before you make that statement, my friend you are wrong! Joe

No Joe I am not wrong. He is a career 293/358/516 hitter in Texas and a 245/300/414 hitter away. That is a huge difference. The fact that he had one year where it turned around does not change his career and is likely a small sample size glitch.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
12:56 pm

thats quite a bold statement i made.

nolie

November 24th, 2009
12:59 pm

The question isnt whether Blalock can hit, the question is can he play 150+ games Billy W

one freak year does not negate all those crappy years B4 it. that’s what regression to the mean-the basis for statistical prediction- is all about. There is still a huge question about whether he can repeat it or will go back to normal which is much more likely. You are right about the health issues though.

P-Town Brave

November 24th, 2009
1:00 pm

CB-

Apparently, its being said that Bob Rathbun will be returning to the Braves broadcasting team and Brian Jordan will be added to the booth…(why Jordan and not Gant?) and that Jerome Jurenivich is now going to be a roving reporter giving updates during games…

DaleMurphy4HOF

November 24th, 2009
1:00 pm

DOB
1) As great as a person Francouer is, isn’t nice not having that discussion again for the next 4 months?
2) I think the Yankees know they have Lowe in their back pocket if they need him. They can buy him from the Braves to fill the one weakness they have, a #3 or 4 starter who can eat innings. They will kick the tires on other pitchers and if they don’t see what they like, they’ll approach the Braves with a couple of A or AA pitchers to buy him.
3) If in Columbus, GA go to Smokey Pig Barbecue. The absolute best!!

Frank Robinson (Rockmart)

November 24th, 2009
1:05 pm

P-Town Brave,
I hope that is a joke. Do you have a reference?

CB

November 24th, 2009
1:07 pm

P-Town,hope that is not true,will be time to hit the mute button.

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
1:08 pm

Blalock is better suited as a PH for us. I don’t think hes an everyday starter and personally don’t think he fits in our lineup. Maybe an AL team where he can DH and play on occasion.

Billy Walsh

November 24th, 2009
1:12 pm

Blalock had three solid years before he got hit with the injury bug. 27 hr 90 rbi 35 doubles, 90 runs scored, 794 ops is not a bad line. Those are very simliar to LaRoches numbers. Would you rather have 2 or 3 years of LaRoche or one year Blalock..who will probably cost less per year.

raleighbravefan

November 24th, 2009
1:15 pm

I’m so excited because Don has practically guaranteed the Braves will win the world series every year once Bobby is gone. Cox had nothing to do with those 14 straight. It was just the talent, in spite of him.

Bobby is largely responsible for a lot of the talent, both as a GM, and because guys wanted to play for him. For example, Greg Maddox came to Atlanta instead of NY primarily BECAUSE of Bobby.

Don, PLEASE give it a rest!

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
1:16 pm

Francouer played really well in New York so the rumors of his career heading down the tubes were premature to say the least. If he was a mystery player with his stats and projected salary, we’d be talking about him along with all of these other plan c’s and d’s.

Some team will be glad to have him, if the Mets were to let him go.

Jackie Treehorn

November 24th, 2009
1:16 pm

DOB, it’s been a while. I trust you’ve been keeping up with Sons of Anarchy? What a great show.

What about Brandon Phillips as the right handed bat for the middle of the order? We could either package Prado in a deal for him, or we could keep Prado and move him to first base. Just a thought I had.

raleighbravefan

November 24th, 2009
1:19 pm

amicusterrae – Salisbury is WESTERN NC BBQ. Very good, but inferior to Eastern NC BBQ. I agree whole heartidly that both are far better than that SC stuff.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
1:21 pm

billy walsh</strong.Would you rather have 2 or 3 years of LaRoche or one year Blalock..who will probably cost less per year.

definitely adam laroche.

BravoMan

November 24th, 2009
1:26 pm

Great Blog DOB

Braveheart

November 24th, 2009
1:26 pm

Yes, Nolie. That’s exactly what I meant. Fat people are extinct in Denver

Moby Grape

November 24th, 2009
1:26 pm

Would you rather have 2 or 3 years of LaRoche or one year Blalock..who will probably cost less per year Billy Walsh

I don’t know if he is your hero or what, but he stunk away from Texas. I’d rather have someone I felt sure would hit better than his .714 OBP away from a hitter’s paradise. Let him DH in the AL. For his sake it should probably be in another hitter’s park.

Moby Grape

November 24th, 2009
1:31 pm

We could either package Prado in a deal for him Jackie

we are going to put a package together that includes Prado and others for a player who has a career OPS 50 points lower than Martin has? That makes a lot of sense.

BBQ heaven

November 24th, 2009
1:35 pm

Thanks for the references to Carolina bbq. Friend of mine from Greensboro brings it back from the ones you mentioned plus a few more when he goes home to visit. We get together with a cooler of Stella, PBR, Bud, Leinenkhugel, etc…a handful of Arturo Fuentes and his friend Senor Macanudo and enjoy the best ‘q’ not from Dinosaur in Syracuse…yes, Syracuse.

2Parc

November 24th, 2009
1:37 pm

DOB – new band for you – from NC/Triad area… you would dig them… http://ameliasmechanics.com/ – check out their video page.

ncscoots

November 24th, 2009
1:38 pm

then tanking in one of the most important games of the entire season, well

Wait. 2-for-5 with a 2B, a HR, and a walk is “tanking”? In that case, give me the guy and I’ll buy the tequila, LOL.

The guy might be immature and make bad decisions (then again, I don’t know his wife; maybe she drives him to drink, for all I know), but he most assuredly didn’t phone it in for that game.

BBQ heavenSo, who plays second?

November 24th, 2009
1:39 pm

So, if we did the unthinkable and traded Prado, who would play second? Or move to third when Chipper gets hurt, as he ALWAYS does? I think, unless someone offers a crazy return, we keep Prado and Infante, for that matter. The two of those guys can play six or seven positions each, and Prado was the emergency catcher, if I”m not mistaken, a year or so ago. Prado is absolutely an everyday player, which he will be with no restrictions when Bobby no longer has KJ to fawn over.
Any thought of Medlen as a closer in the future?

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
1:42 pm

I think Medlen could turn into a really good reliver. I dont know if he will ever close for the Braves who seem to have someone in waitin in the minors

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
1:42 pm

Braves got Bobby Abreu

One final thought

November 24th, 2009
1:43 pm

If we ended up signing LaRoche, we would most definitely, and seriously, need someone to fill in from time to time during the first half as Adam, for some reason, absolutely stinks the first half. Maybe we could offer him half as much in arbitration, and let him come in at the All Star break.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
1:44 pm

…. make that JUAN Abreu, minor-league free agent pitcher.

Gotcha, didn’t I?

Jay212033

November 24th, 2009
1:44 pm

“Braves got Bobby Abreu”

What?!?!

TennesseePaul

November 24th, 2009
1:44 pm

Wasn’t Boomer tanked when he threw that no-hitter?

Just asking.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
1:44 pm

DAP

November 24th, 2009
1:45 pm

DOB, thats not funny.

Bluestreak

November 24th, 2009
1:45 pm

Schafer, Freeman and a couple of MiL pitchers to Detroit for Cabrera. They’ll get cheap and value…and we’ll just get value that can play first until Chip retires. Then we can decide if its easier to get a first or third baseman at that point.

Jay212033

November 24th, 2009
1:45 pm

DOB

You didn’t leave them hanging long enough lol!

Daybed Wagmoe

November 24th, 2009
1:47 pm

Bobby Abreu — what??? Seriously? I thought LA signed him to a deal just a few weeks ago?

CB

November 24th, 2009
1:48 pm

DOB, you’re fired.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
1:48 pm

RH Juan Abreu has 309 strikeouts in 267-1/3 innings. He’s 24, went 5-4 with 16 saves and 3.67 ERA in 36 apps in A and AA IRoyals) in ‘09.

That makes 39 guys on Braves’ 40-man roster.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
1:50 pm

Daybed, that was cruel and irresponsible of me. I was thinking April Fools Day, when it’s actually Thanksgiving eve … eve. My bad.

CB

November 24th, 2009
1:50 pm

OK,we rehire you- was kind of funny.Well,almost.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
1:51 pm

Adam, for some reason, absolutely stinks the first half.

compared to who? he doesnt stink compared to blalock, like some here want us to get. he does not “stink” in the first half. he isnt quite as good, but still better than a guy like casey kotchman. (ps, laroche had a .783 OPS in the first half last season, which is decent)

RC

November 24th, 2009
1:57 pm

DOB, that was hilarious. I’m mad at myself for believing for the .0235 seconds before I remembered that he’d just signed a huge deal with LA. How did they get Juan Abreu? Is the Rule 5 draft today?

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
1:59 pm

I was wondering if Cabrera had a good game that day. Interesting to note that he did. So maybe he’s been drinking his whole career and he still puts MVP candidate numbers.

DOB

November 24th, 2009
2:00 pm

Why sign a guy to a mlb contract that hasn’t pitched past AA?

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:01 pm

RC, Braves just signed JUAN Abreu to major-league contract. He was a six-year minor league free agent.

He’s got a good arm and he’s only 24, so Braves must’ve been competing with others who offered big-league contracts or were certain others would offer them. I’ll check with Wren in a little bit.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:05 pm

Pujols is UNANIMOUS choice as NL MVP.

DOB

November 24th, 2009
2:06 pm

Dave you owe us all an apology!!!

Moby Grape

November 24th, 2009
2:07 pm

Gotcha, didn’t I? DOB

now that was just plain mean.

TennesseePaul

November 24th, 2009
2:07 pm

Pujols is UNANIMOUS choice as NL MVP

Bogus. Russ Martin all the way. ;)

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:08 pm

Only Brave to receive mention in NL MVP voting was Escobar, who tied for 20th with six points (all on one fifth-place vote)

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
2:08 pm

I’ll still take Konerko anyday

DAP

November 24th, 2009
2:12 pm

DOB Only Brave to receive mention in NL MVP voting was Escobar, who tied for 20th with six points (all on one fifth-place vote)

you expect us to believe you?

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:12 pm

Hanley Ramirez got 15 second-place votes and was a distant second in MVP vote with 233 pts to Pujols’ 448, while Ryan Howard (217) and Prince Fielder (203) were third and fourth.

Escobar tied with Mark Reynolds for 20th place, and they were two points behind Lincecum and Victorino and two points ahead of Joey Votto.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
2:12 pm

Wow MVP candidate Yunel Escobar. Wonder if we can get our announcers to describe him as such from now on.

sidslidkid

November 24th, 2009
2:14 pm

“Pujols is UNANIMOUS choice as NL MVP.” – DOB

We should trade Lowe for Pujols before word gets out! I wonder if we can get the Cards to throw in some prospects too?

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:14 pm

Pujols is sixth NL player to win by unanimous vote, after Orlando Cepeda (1967), Mike Schmidt (1980), Jeff Bagwell (1994), Ken Caminiti (1996) and Barry Bonds (2002).

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
2:17 pm

uga,Joe Simpson won’t, he still thinks Greg Nawton is better than Ted Williams

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
2:17 pm

You people are dreaming if you think we are going to get Miguel Cabrera and for the price of Derek Lowe and some prospects!! HA! The Tigers are trying to shed payroll, not add 15 million more back in a trade. Come on people, get some common sense would ya?

sidslidkid

November 24th, 2009
2:18 pm

Anybody seen Juan Abreu pitch? What kind of stuff does he have? Looking at his numbers he must have a decent fastball.

BravoMan

November 24th, 2009
2:18 pm

DOB,

I fell off my chair when I read that. Looks like a good sign though.

Klaus

November 24th, 2009
2:20 pm

FYI- from MLBTR

“Yesterday we heard that Jermaine Dye was open to playing first base, and Jack Moore at FanGraphs determines that unless he takes a massive paycut, Dye’s still not worth taking the spot of a prospect.”

Slow day… Slow day

Billy Walsh

November 24th, 2009
2:20 pm

Moby,

Just stating that he might be an option at first makes him my hero?

VIRGINIABRAVE

November 24th, 2009
2:20 pm

Eastern style, Western style…is one vinegar based the other tomato…or am I Waaaaaaaaaaaay out in left field.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
2:24 pm

One thing going for Roachy,Chipper wants him back.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:25 pm

Not going to get overly excited about Juan Abreu, for now. The dude had almost as many walks (22) as strikeouts (25) in 20-1/3 innings (16 games) after being promoted to Double-A last summer. But his strikeouts have been consistently impressive, including 104 (with 42 walks) in 76 innings in A-ball in 2008.

Efrim

November 24th, 2009
2:27 pm

Hanley Ramirez got 15 second-place votes and was a distant second in MVP vote with 233 pts to Pujols’ 448, while Ryan Howard (217) and Prince Fielder (203) were third and fourth.

Where is Chase Utley in all of this? He really is the most underrated player in baseball.

DOB

November 24th, 2009
2:27 pm

Can the Braves send Abreu to the minors?

BBQ lesson

November 24th, 2009
2:28 pm

VirginiaBrave,
One is tomato based, and the other is not worth eating.

raleighbravefan

November 24th, 2009
2:29 pm

Virginiabrave
BBQ may not mean much in VA, but in NC, it is a religion.

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
2:29 pm

Klaus,

There’s plenty more slow days until next week. I wish Dec 1 would hurry up and get here, I’m annoyed with Nov and want it to go away. The kids have been taking turns getting sick all month long. Pig flu, bronchitis, sinus infections and some other 24-hour virus/bug.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:30 pm

virginiabrave: both are vinegar-based, but western n.c. (or “lexington”) style adds red to sauce, tomatoes or ketchup or whatever.

And in the Eastern part of the state, they use the whole hog. Western, they use only shoulder.

BBQ lesson II

November 24th, 2009
2:30 pm

Doesn’t the ‘tomato based’ still have vinegar in it? So what makes it ‘based’ on tomatoes? The vinegar stuff, with no tomato, is just what it sounds like…awful.

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
2:30 pm

DOB, are you sure it’s not Winston Abreu with a new fake birth certificate?

UNCBrave

November 24th, 2009
2:32 pm

TRADE SP Derek Lowe for 1B Miguel Cabrera straight up…Tigers would take that b/c they wouldn’t have to eat salary

Also, Prado is his best friend, he will keep him off the sauce..

dpelfrey

November 24th, 2009
2:33 pm

That “vinegar stuff” you refer to is what wakes up your taste buds so you can actually taste the pork. It’s a necessity. Now mustard based sauces…that’s a travesty.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:33 pm

BBQ lesson II: Sorry, but your comment about Eastern NC BBQ being “awful” immediately disqualifies you from further relevancy in this discussion.

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
2:37 pm

DOB, on the MOF album…Temezcal…is it correct that Oberst sings the album track and then M. Ward sings the live version at the end? Man that song is infectious. I’m really enjoying the whole album but Temezcal and The Sandman/Brakeman songs are 2 of my favs, which is kind of odd because I rarely get attached to slow songs. I’m going to go dig up the Rolling Stone review…

sidslidkid

November 24th, 2009
2:38 pm

“The vinegar stuff, with no tomato, is just what it sounds like…awful.” – BBQ lesson II

Naw man. You’re crazy. You get the right amount of peppers and spices in there splash it on a perfectly smoked hunk of pig…. it’s some of the best BBQ there is..

raleighbravefan

November 24th, 2009
2:39 pm

dpelfrey – Amen

DOB – Love your smackdown of BBQ II. You are right on! Add slaw and hush puppies, and you are in heaven.

ncscoots

November 24th, 2009
2:41 pm

Now mustard based sauces…that’s a travesty.

Well, I’ll take the other side of that, good buddy. Plenty of good Q down SC way. I’d take some of that Eastern NC BBQ to the desert island, but I’m not turning up my nose at some of that Lowcountry stuff. Good eats.

sidslidkid

November 24th, 2009
2:41 pm

Now I want some BBQ. I guess I can hit Jim ‘n Nicks up on the way home. It’s not too bad as far as chain BBQ goes.

Wide Right

November 24th, 2009
2:41 pm

Prado is his best friend, he will keep him off the sauce..UNCBRAVE

If Miggy doesnt put Prado on the sauce first.

Bushwacker

November 24th, 2009
2:43 pm

The best BBQ sanwich is at Bubba’s in Blairsville.

Dave, how come we don’t seem to be interested in keeping LaRouche at first, he was easliy the best player on the team and single handedly kept us in playoff hunt with Chipper sputtering along.

We could probabaly keep him for $8-10 million which is a bargain these days.

He hits BIG CLUTCH HR’s, drives in runs, great defensivley, and he’s a great clubhouse guy, the other players like him , and that’s always been the Braves big thing, is you gotta be a good guy.

What’s the deal?

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
2:45 pm

I like Famous Dave’s BBQ sauce…

If there turns out to be any truth to the Braves’ interest in Juan Pierre, I call nickname “noodles”

smitty

November 24th, 2009
2:46 pm

Now we’re talking BBQ, what’s the best place ITP?

NCmike

November 24th, 2009
2:48 pm

DOB

You need to stay in NC until Monday and head up I-40 to Hickory. Jorge Padron is coming to our cigar club. Check out this menu (I know you really won’t be able to make it, but I can make your mouth water with this… ).

FIRST COURSE – Grilled goat cheese stuffed figs wrapped in proscoutto. Served with a Leveroni Pinot Noir. PADRON SERIE 1926 40th ANNIVERSARY.

SECOND COURSE – Asian Duck Confit with wild mushroom and grean pea risotto. Served with a Thomas Henry Meritage

INTERVAL – PADRON 1964 ANNIVERSARY SERIES EXCLUSIVO

THIRD COURSE – Saffron Poached Sea Bass with pistachio foam. Served with a Zuccardi Serie A Malbec

FOURTH COURSE – Braised Oxtail with a winter root vegetable ragout. Served with a Hedges “3 Vinieyards” Red

FIFTH COURSE – Sweet potato creme brule with candied bacon. PADRON SERIE 1926 80 YEARS

Big food, big wine and top of the line cigars. Seriously, it doesn’t get much better than this.

beekay

November 24th, 2009
2:48 pm

Wow…got a trivia question and couldn’t believe I didn’t know the answer..question was who was the last American born white basketball player to make the NBA All-Star game?? People like Joe Morgan constantly talk about the lack of American Black baseball players but American white guys in the NBA especially good ones are few and far between!

RC

November 24th, 2009
2:49 pm

Now we’re talking BBQ, what’s the best place ITP?

Don’t know if it’s the best, but Daddy D’z is pretty good. They also have a 25-cent baseball card machine with all Braves cards in it.

Also like Fox Bros. in Candler Park and DBA in the Highlands, but both of those are more “high class” (and price) BBQ.

sidslidkid

November 24th, 2009
2:49 pm

“how come we don’t seem to be interested in keeping LaRouche… What’s the deal?” – Bushwacker

I think the Braves are one of the more interested teams in LaRoche. But If they do get out bid. My guess is that Freddie Freeman’s progress along with the 3 years Adam probably can get for $8-9 mill a year will have something to do with it. I doubt he take a 1 or 2 year deal. I hope he does. I really like having him at first.

Fischerking04

November 24th, 2009
2:50 pm

DOB:

So what exactly does it mean if they gave him a major league contract? Does that mean if he isn’t good enough to be on the team they have to cut him? Even if he stinks it up in ST does he still get his salary?

Also, not cool with the Bobby Abreu line. You know we’re like a school of hungry sharks swarming the rumor boat for scraps. What looked like a huge fish turns out to be a minnow…Ouch.

Steve McP

November 24th, 2009
2:51 pm

Out here in Western NC we have a really good BBQ place in Dillsboro, but it they seem to serve Eastern NC style, because it is dry rubbed and then served with a spicy vinegar sauce,with no sign of tomatoes, they just call it NC style BBQ.

splitfinger

November 24th, 2009
2:52 pm

what’s the best place ITP?

I-85 North…

sidslidkid

November 24th, 2009
2:52 pm

“Don’t know if it’s the best, but Daddy D’z is pretty good…. Also like Fox Bros. in Candler Park and DBA in the Highlands”

All very good places! Fat Matt’s is pretty good too. Although last time I went there it was too salty.

NCSUbrave

November 24th, 2009
2:53 pm

Hey DOB,

I know awhile ago you said you grew up eating at “Little Mint.” Was this in Windsor, NC? I’m just curious because my dad just bought it about a year ago.

cabravesfan

November 24th, 2009
2:56 pm

Damn it- Now I really want BBQ! (In case anyone is wondering, no, there is no such thing as “California” BBQ…we do a lot of things well, but we are smart enough to know that barbeque is NOT one of them ;) )

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
2:57 pm

By the way, Abreu was rated No. 25 prospect in Royals org by Baseball America entering last season

Daslied

November 24th, 2009
2:59 pm

Beekay – Dan Majerle?

NCSUbrave

November 24th, 2009
2:59 pm

cabravesfan-I’m sure you have to explain to everyone that BBQ is NOT a verb but a noun. haha

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:00 pm

I will pose this question to Nolie, and Moby Grape, say LaRoche rejects the braves offer of Arb, and takes a 3 yr deal elsewhere.
Konerko is not available and you’re left with the option of Dye, or Blalock, now who would you rather have? Dye at 1B, or Blalock?
For me it’s Blalock,that’s all nothing more just an option should all else fail.
Now if it meant getting rid of Lowe, and having the ability to sign Bay,or Holliday, I am definitely taking Blalock over LaRoche.

Moby Grape

November 24th, 2009
3:00 pm

One is tomato based, and the other is not worth eating

amen!

beekay

November 24th, 2009
3:00 pm

Daslied
hint….2004 and Jason Kidd doesn’t count

new cars

November 24th, 2009
3:00 pm

Dpelfrey, Once again the blogosphere has struck. I was responding to your sarcasm with more sarcasm.. As my wife says to me often, it wasn’t quite stupid enough to be funny, stupid..Getting back to the serious stuff, whoever we can bring in, I hope they bring some energy and fire…We need a linchpin, whether it’s a Crawford or a power guy.

I Ate Too Much...

November 24th, 2009
3:00 pm

Sconyer’s in Augusta has the best BBQ.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:02 pm

Relievers?
Porter Wagner? I dunno, lemme see re-sign Smoltz to set up Wagner hmmmm. I guess they could take out their false teeth and fight over who gets the wheelchair ride to the mound when Bobby makes the call to the pen.

Bushwacker

November 24th, 2009
3:03 pm

Pete Maravich?

Bravo

November 24th, 2009
3:03 pm

What’s up with all the wrist injuries in the minors? Do the boys not get enough time with their girlfriends or something? They must have one helluva collection of adult videos in Mississippi…

cabravesfan

November 24th, 2009
3:03 pm

I’m sure you have to explain to everyone that BBQ is NOT a verb but a noun. haha

NCSUbrave-

Ummm, it’s not a verb? (Kidding! Although out here it really is something you do, not something you eat)

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:04 pm

BBQ, I like it all except that sweet Honey, or brown sugar based yuck!

CB

November 24th, 2009
3:05 pm

cab,get VJ and fly to Williamsburg and get some BBQ at Pierce’s. Still the best I’ve ever eaten- when you get over NC throw a couple sandwiches out.

Bushwacker

November 24th, 2009
3:06 pm

Talk to me DAVE, what up with Adam LaRoach, did I spell his name wrong????

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:07 pm

Bravo? wth? where did that come from?

cabravesfan

November 24th, 2009
3:08 pm

CB-

You make it sound so easy :D

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
3:08 pm

raleighbravefan

November 24th, 2009
3:09 pm

cabravefan – There are Eastern NC BBQ restaurants, good places, that will ship to CA (My brother lives in San Diego).

Wide Right

November 24th, 2009
3:12 pm

if we are talking BBQ…I live in Manhattan, where ventilation restrictions prevent a Carolina boy like myself from getting BBQ cooked the right way. Therefore, the annual Big Apple BBQ Festival in Madison Square Park is my only chance to get a true Carolina Pulled Pork Sandwich with slaw and a potato roll. Its actually a pretty big deal…the festival features one vendor for every “BBQ region” in the country. The longest lines are always for the Texas Salt Lick. I am thankful for that…as I spend most of my time with folks from “The Pit”…they are from Raleigh, NC and they do it right.

However, DOB, up until two years ago the Carolina BBQ was represented by a place in Wilson, NC and it was the best. I cant remember the name of it but I remember Miguel Nunez (an actor…I guess he is best known for playing Juwanna Mann in the movie Juwanna Mann) was serving the BBQ. We talked briefly and he mentioned that he was from Wilson and he was family or friends with the vendors and wanted to help out.

They always have the festival in June. If the Braves are playing the Mets at that time you should check it out: http://www.bigapplebbq.org

Moby Grape

November 24th, 2009
3:13 pm

Konerko is not available and you’re left with the option of Dye, or Blalock, now who would you rather have? Dye at 1B, or Blalock? Joe

wow, bad choices I guess I’d take Hank but I wouldn’t be very happy.
Let’s not forget that the Braves usually trade instead of spending on free agents, I think there will be better options out there than either of those two.
I am of the firm opinion that the Braves will not sign either Bay or Holiday, too much money even if they can dump Lowe’s salary. I know they might be able to afford it if that happened, I just don’t believe they will do it. There are too many other problems that need addressing,
If they lose Adam like I think will probably happen, I think they will try to pick up a mid-level first baseman and a mid-level outfielder and probably a closer. I hope they do more, but that’s my thought at this moment.
Wren will likely surprise us as the winter progresses.

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
3:13 pm

You know what I love to have with BBQ? A moon pie.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 24th, 2009
3:13 pm

Gotta give a shoutout to some local BBQ in mid-GA since everyone else is name dropping…Fincher’s BBQ in Macon is GREAT. It’s even been into outer space when a local guy(Can’t remember the guy’s name at the moment) who became an astronaut(sp?) requested it as one of his things to take up in the shuttle with him .

And Hudson’s BBQ in my little hometown of Robera, GA is lip-smacking good as well!

Venice Jim

November 24th, 2009
3:14 pm

CB – Pierce’s does ship their BBQ – $36 for four pounds, plus unidentified charges for special handling and shipping – still probably cheaper than a round flight trip…

raleighbravefan

November 24th, 2009
3:15 pm

Wide Right – I feel for you man. The festival does sound pretty good, although unless you are having a sandwich, NCQ should come with hush puppies, not a roll.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 24th, 2009
3:16 pm

And Old Clinton BBQ between Macon and Gray (on Gray Highway) is fabulous as well. “Dirty Jobs” did a show there a few years ago where Mike Rowe helped clean the BBQ pit.

cabravesfan

November 24th, 2009
3:17 pm

VJ-

I’ve tried to post a response to you but so far everything I type seems to come out unintentionally unfit to print…

NCmike

November 24th, 2009
3:18 pm

MLBTR is reporting that the Braves got Bobby Abreu!!!! Is this true???? :)

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
3:18 pm

Not much great BBQ in Rome, GA, but Back Yard BBQ is probably the best. Loads of great BBQ places in Atlanta, but you know about them already.

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
3:18 pm

Saffron Poached Sea Bass with pistachio foam? Seriously? You better put some Grey Poupon on that.

Daybed Wagmoe

November 24th, 2009
3:19 pm

DOB at 1:50pm — nah, it was funny. For a second I figured that some joker signed in, using your name to post something dumb, and that you’d come back on and say, “alright, whoever posted that Abreu thing – not cool. You’re BANNED.”

I know that it was a couple of weeks ago, but what’d you think of The Office’s “Murder” episode?? I thought it was the funniest episode of the season, maybe the last two seasons. It was priceless, especially Oscar’s attempts at a southern accent.

raleighbravefan

November 24th, 2009
3:19 pm

Wide Right – the pit is great, although they have all kinds – pulled pork, ribs, brisket, etc. It is well known all over, and the chef beat Bobby Fley in a Food Network Throwdown.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:20 pm

Moby, that’s all I was saying as well by endorsing Blalock, yes, Ideally laRoche would/should be back.
I think of all the big three he is the most likely to return, but if not, then who else is out there?

D.Lee=unavailable
C.Pena?
Other than that?????????
now it has been mentioned on ESPN trade rumors that the Halos,want Konerko.
Wonder if that happens if we could then do a deal with LAA, and send Lowe (if they miss on Halladay/Lackey),Schafer,andanother player to LAA for Kendry Morales, and say maybe Jose Arrendondo.

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
3:20 pm

I’m a fan of Puerto Rican BBQ myself. Really any Latin American BBQ is phenomenal. Though the good ole vinegar-based NC BBQ is my favorite.

Brandon from Warner Robins

November 24th, 2009
3:20 pm

I agree with Macon Braves (RIP) Finchers BBQ is excellent.

NCmike

November 24th, 2009
3:21 pm

18 Wheels

Gotta admit, some of the food sounds “out there”. But the cigars are literally as good as they get.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:21 pm

And in that case just move Freeman to LF

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
3:21 pm

Moe Berg,

The Weber Grill in Schaumburg has terrific pulled pork…

CB

November 24th, 2009
3:23 pm

VJ,you would miss the chance to see W&M,the Colonial background and the cool weather.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
3:23 pm

PWHjort,

Do you live in Rome? I was looking at Shorter College for a while…

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:26 pm

Enter your comments here

Ritchie from Scotland

November 24th, 2009
3:27 pm

How’s the weather across the pond guys? It feels like it hasn’t stopped raining in Glasgow for about 2 weeks. Yip, this is how boring the off-season is so far, i’ve resorted to asking about the weather!

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:28 pm

not too far from me there PW Hjort

cabravesfan

November 24th, 2009
3:29 pm

CB-

It’s been getting clod here at night…supposed to be in the 40’s all week ;)

cabravesfan

November 24th, 2009
3:30 pm

OK, in the interest of full disclosure, it is also supposed to be close to 80 during the days…

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:31 pm

I want to take this opportunity to say Happy Thanksgiving to all here, may your Holidays be Blessed, and may prosperity smile on each and every one of You!!!

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:34 pm

Olney tweets that the Astros’ payroll will be cut from $107MM to the low $90MMs.
Wonder who is available in Houston?
Oswalt?
Lee?

N8

November 24th, 2009
3:34 pm

“By the way, Abreu was rated No. 25 prospect in Royals org by Baseball America entering last season” DOB

Wow. The 25th ranked prospect in one of the worst organizations. WOW!! LOL. Now my hotstove juice is flowing!

In all seriousness, adding good fairly young live arms, when we might be losing both Soriano and Gonzo is a good thing. Possibly one of those under the radar “doesn’t seem like much of a move at the time” signings that ends up being one of the first great moves in overhauling our bullpen. Perhaps not.

darren

November 24th, 2009
3:36 pm

keith law is reporting the braves are on the verge of getting Cabrera. shaffer, freeman, minor and delgado, and johnson

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
3:36 pm

Why a major league contract? Braves felt like Abreu would’ve been protected on their 40-man roster if he’d been in their organization this month, when they added minor leaguers to protect them from Rule 5 Draft.

Someone else would’ve plucked him in next month’s Rule 5 draft if he was not on a 40-man roster.

Royals didn’t protect him, despite high-90s fastball. Probably tired of command issues.

Obviously not a big risk for Braves, other than taking a roster spot. It’s a minimum salary.

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
3:36 pm

I could deal with Carlos Lee’s defense with the bat he brings, but that’s 18mil a year and if the Astros are cutting payroll then they wouldn’t want Lowe.

N8

November 24th, 2009
3:36 pm

“Olney tweets that the Astros’ payroll will be cut from $107MM to the low $90MMs….”

How come when a sentence has the word “tweet” in it, it’s hard to take it seriously? Or is it just me?

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
3:37 pm

Nah N8, tweeting is pretty much the lamest invention since blogs

RC

November 24th, 2009
3:38 pm

keith law is reporting the braves are on the verge of getting Cabrera. shaffer, freeman, minor and delgado, and johnson

Seems like a lot for Melky Cabrera….. :D

DAP

November 24th, 2009
3:38 pm

Olney tweets that the Astros’ payroll will be cut from $107MM to the low $90MMs.
Wonder who is available in Houston?
Oswalt?
Lee?

berkman? please be berkman.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:39 pm

darren, I just checked Espn, I saw no such reference to that proposed deal, do you have a link to provide?

boonie27

November 24th, 2009
3:40 pm

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
3:13 pm
You know what I love to have with BBQ? A moon pie.

Add an RC cola to that and you have a complete meal.

Martin Calloway

November 24th, 2009
3:40 pm

Slaid Cleaves will be at Eddie’s Attic on Dec 3.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:41 pm

But if the cuts are going to continue, might GM Ed Wade look to deal first baseman Lance Berkman, who is due $14.5 million in 2010 with an option at $15 million for 2011 or a $2 million buyout.
DAP. looks like your wish may come true.

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
3:41 pm

I eat a mini moon pie everyday with my lunch, BJ’s wholesale baby, box of 48 for 7 bucks, three flavors!

beekay

November 24th, 2009
3:42 pm

Schafer and Medlen for Melkey….Yanks want Gardner to start and looking to move Melkey

RC

November 24th, 2009
3:43 pm

I could deal with Carlos Lee’s defense with the bat he brings, but that’s 18mil a year and if the Astros are cutting payroll then they wouldn’t want Lowe.

I agree on putting up with the defense. Given that it’ll be hard for Houston to move Lee anyway, they might agree to a straight swap for Lowe since it’ll save them $3.5 million a year for the next 3 years (Lee is making $18.5 million a year). One potential roadblock is that Lee has a full no-trade clause, which as we’ve seen in the past can be a headache when getting deals together.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:43 pm

Houston has holes up and down the roster, including up the middle on the infield and in the bullpen where the club is reportedly not interested in bringing back closer Jose Valverde.
UH-OH, looks like he is not for the Braves.Berkman that is

Dawg

November 24th, 2009
3:43 pm

Why are we so opposed to resigning LaRoche? After he came to the Braves, the Braves were a very good team. We seem to be more intereted in waiting for a AA hitter who has yet to excel at AA. I love prospects but it may be 3 or more years before Freeman can contribute at LaRoche’s level. If we add a RH hitter to the outfield, our team would will at a very high rate.

BBQ talk? Dang, things must be slow around here.

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
3:44 pm

N8, couldn’t agree more about ‘tweets’. Those letters in that order are best left to be used only when talking about Tweetsie Railroad.

And when history looks back on the world of journalism, ‘tweeting’ will be the equivalent to boy bands in the music world. Tweet my words….

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:45 pm

After winning his third National League MVP this season, St. Louis Cardinals first baseman is poised to land one of the biggest contracts in team sports history, whether he becomes a free agent or gets that contract from his current employers.

Pujols, who turns 30 in January, has two years and $32 million dollars remaining on his current pact, and it may be time for the Cardinals, as an organization, to decide whether they can afford to pay him upwards of $20 million until he’s 37 or 38 years old. If the answer is no, or anything but a resounding yes, they may decide to explore trading Pujols as early as this winter.

The price to retain their star could cost the Cards more than $200 million, and while Scott Boras is not the agent for Pujols, it’s unlikely that their will be much of a discount
OH BOY! now I wonder what this would take in terms of Players?

DAP

November 24th, 2009
3:45 pm

its hard to think of a more ideal guy than lance berkman for the braves, considering everything, position, contract, ect.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 24th, 2009
3:47 pm

When I was a kid, my great grandmother always had Moon Pies and RC Cola for the grandkids to snack on. I also loved to have Yoo-Hoo with my Moon Pie!

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:47 pm

We’ve talked over the last few days how the financially-strapped Detroit Tigers were interested in dealing Curtis Granderson and Edwin Jackson. With those talks reportedly stalled, Lynn Henning of the Detroit News says Miguel Cabrera could now be on the block.

Despite enormous talent, “No longer is Cabera a sure thing to remain with the Tigers,” writes Henning, who adds that “the (Tigers) hemorrhaged money in 2009 and stands to bleed profusely in 2010, as well.

Now this one really has me scared just because of Wren’s affinity for Cabrera, and Bobby’s desire for the Three Run Homer!

DAP

November 24th, 2009
3:48 pm

Why are we so opposed to resigning LaRoche?

“we” arent. there are a few bloggers here who arent, and a couple of guys who cover the braves, bowman and o’brien both seem to think it probably wont happen. their hunches are usually pretty good indicators.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 24th, 2009
3:48 pm

HA Boonie…great call bud!!

Efrim

November 24th, 2009
3:49 pm

Olney tweets that the Astros’ payroll will be cut from $107MM to the low $90MMs.
Wonder who is available in Houston?
Oswalt?
Lee?

I think they would ask for the moon when fielding offers for Berkman and Oswalt.

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
3:49 pm

Dawg,

Laroche hit #7 when we came bac wek, and why? Cause he’s a #7 hitter, could probably pass as a #6 on our team. I’m not opposed to bringing back Adam Laroche, but only if get a real #4 hitter as well, McCann is great in the 5 hole, but he’s no clean-up man.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:49 pm

How bout Jack Cust instead?

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
3:50 pm

RC is a pretty common Southern drink, but did anyone ever drink the strawberry goodness of a Red Rock? And you know what i like with my Red Rock and Moon Pie? Another Moon Pie lighted warmed in the microwave.

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
3:50 pm

Sometimes I butcher the English language for fun

njbraves

November 24th, 2009
3:51 pm

I know the Braves aren’t going to get Cabrera, but when I read comments like..”Cabrera would block Freeman”..I just have to laugh. If Freeman turns into half the hitter Miggy is, I’ll be thrilled. I know his salary is an issue, but if they could move Lowe, this is exactly the type of splash move that would show that the Braves are for real.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
3:52 pm

marc in FL McCann is great in the 5 hole, but he’s no clean-up man.

why isnt he? what exactly are you looking for?

Efrim

November 24th, 2009
3:53 pm

My post got cut off, but what I meant was that they probably value those two more than they should.

Oswalt: 10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$16M club option ($2M buyout)

Berkman: 10:$14.5M, 11:$15M club option ($2M buyout)

RC

November 24th, 2009
3:53 pm

RC is a pretty common Southern drink, but did anyone ever drink the strawberry goodness of a Red Rock? And you know what i like with my Red Rock and Moon Pie? Another Moon Pie lighted warmed in the microwave.

I actually tried Red Rock for the first time this past week (regular and ginger ale, not strawberry). The regular version is great, and the ginger ale is good while drinking, but leaves your throat burning for some reason. Both are made just outside of Atlanta with sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup though, and are both really good.

Venice Jim

November 24th, 2009
3:55 pm

cabravesfan – “It’s been getting clod here at night…supposed to be in the 40’s all week”

were you referring to me as a clod, or are we back to proofreading issues?

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
3:55 pm

18 Wheels of Love: Tweetsie Railroad. You’ve got me thinking about summer as a little kid, when dad drove the family up to Grandfather Mountain and Tweetsie Railroad.

Someone asked about Little Mint. It was another burger chain started by the Hardee’s founder, Wilber Hardee (the first Hardee’s was in Greenville, and it was still right across from ECU campus when I was a kid).

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:55 pm

I would imagine the call gets hung up when Wade says, I want Schafer,Jurrjens,and Escobar for Berkman!

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
3:56 pm

DAP –

Someone that can play everyday and hit 30+ homers while maintaining around a .300 average, simply put. It would also be nice to have a clean-up hitter that doesn’t go on 2-3 week pull-happy skids like McCann tends to do.

The fact that he’s a catcher hurts him the most. The fact that he doesn’t know how to situational hit hurts him for now, but is less of an issue every year. He may be the best raw hitter we have, but I’d like a more experienced guy hitting fourth with a little more pop and less streaks.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
3:57 pm

If not Wren has suddenly developed dementia

cabravesfan

November 24th, 2009
3:57 pm

VJ-

What do you think? :mad:

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
3:58 pm

DOB, I made that trip in the grandparents airstream a few times myself.

And yeah the regular Red Rock Cola leaves a little afterburn in the throat…I think from the ginger. I doubt they make the strawberry anymore but it was was the bees knees when I was 6.

P-Town Brave

November 24th, 2009
3:59 pm

njbraves-

Yeah, that would the “Braves got who…uh oh Philly fans just sh*t themselves trade”

Chief

November 24th, 2009
4:02 pm

JEFF FRANCOUER HAS JUST BEEN TRADED!

Geo123

November 24th, 2009
4:02 pm

JoeBrave,

The players you mention for Berkman may be what the Tigers ask for Cabrera from the Braves. Reading the whole article, the writer also makes sure to state that if Cabrera is traded that the Red Sox wold be first in line to get him and one of the components for the deal would be Bucholhz. So people can forget about Lowe and whatever for him because it won’t happen. Here’s a link to the article….

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091124/SPORTS0104/911240336/1265/SPORTS08/Miguel-Cabrera-joins-Tigers–trade-talks

DAP

November 24th, 2009
4:04 pm

Marc in FL Someone that can play everyday and hit 30+ homers while maintaining around a .300 average, simply put.

there are exactly 5 players in the majors that were able to do that last year. 5 guys out of 30 teams. you think maybe your standards are a bit unrealistic?

P-Town Brave

November 24th, 2009
4:04 pm

Ok, so what does everyone think it would take to get Cabrera and is the assumption that they’ll try to make up for the Jurrjens mistake?

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
4:04 pm

Geo I agree wholeheartedly, no way Cabrera is a Brave

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
4:06 pm

Chief, where do get that? Francouer has no trade value, If anything he will go to Arb with the Mutts, or be NON TENDERED!

Sinclair

November 24th, 2009
4:06 pm

As a long-time North Carolinian, no better barbecue in the state than Bee’s BBQ in Greeneville, NC, or Wilbur’s in Goldsboro…

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
4:07 pm

P-Town Braves, hmmm, I think it will take Ted Turner money to get Cabrera. But as of right now, no way he even fights in the payroll, just no single way.

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
4:07 pm

I mean fits in the payroll, not fights, lol

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
4:08 pm

Joebrave, God dude!!! Dont you know a ruse when you see one?

Lew

November 24th, 2009
4:08 pm

MaconBraves is absolutely correct about Old Clinton’s.

My favorite right now is Fatty’s BBQ on the Vermont/NewHampshire state line (VT side) cause it’s the only damned place there is up here. But it’s good pulled pork with the western Carolina vinegar based sauce.

Every now and then a Dude comes through town with a mobile set up and he has pulled pork cooked over maple and oak instead of hickory or mesquite like down south. It’s good, too, with that Western Carolina sauce.

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
4:08 pm

Checkin out for awhile gotta pay the bills check back later for any more untrue developments

P-Town Brave

November 24th, 2009
4:09 pm

Ok so say the money can be worked, what do you all think it will take?

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
4:10 pm

DAP -

I think you’re missing the point, there are 50+ guys in the majors capable of those stats; last year was a down year as far as power numbers are concerned. The point is McCann is not on the list of guys capable of doing that because he is a catcher, and thus will never play everyday and never be able to produce those kinds of numbers unless he goes Mike Piazza on us or something.

You have to create a team based on potential, and McCann is turning out to be a pull happy low 20’s HR guy that might as well just sit back and watch against left-handers. He is a serviceable #4 guy, but more productive as protection in the 5th hole with an everyday player in the #4 hole.

This isn’t a McCann bashing, I love the guy, but he is not an ideal #4 hitter. If you really want I can start a list of guys that project to be better in that spot…

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 24th, 2009
4:12 pm

Joebrave–I think Chief was just trolling for a reaction from someone. Someone like him, who doesn’t add anything to the blog, should be ignored in my opinion.

BravoMan

November 24th, 2009
4:12 pm

1. McLouth-LF
2.Prado-2B
3.Jones-3B
4.McCann-C
5.Cameron-CF
6.Escobar-SS
7. Heyward/Diaz
8. Gamel-1B

1. Jurrjens
2.Hudson
3. Lowe
4.Hanson
5. Kawakami

CL-Wagner
SU-Moylan
SU-O’Flaherty
MR- Logan
MR- Acosta
MR- Abreu
LR- Medlen

I’m not saying I’m for all of this but I want a good return for one of our pitchers, so I predict that Vazquez will be delt to the Brewers for Gamel, because Gamel does not have a position there. He plays first til Chipper retires then Freeman comes in and Gamel moves to 3B. Wren will also sign Cameron who has wanted to play here and Bobby will kindly ask McLouth to move to LF. And yes I think that a Wagner signing is inevitable and I’d personally be ok with that. In order of these things being completed I expect it to go Wagner then Cameron deal, and then finally a trade of Vazquez to the Brewers. I do see fits for Lowe, but we should sell high with Javy. Just my opinion.

Brandon

November 24th, 2009
4:14 pm

DOB!!

Saw the opening to your blog…..just thought I would tell you that Penelope Cruz is going to be on the Ellen Degeneres show within the hour.

Later!

TnBrian

November 24th, 2009
4:15 pm

Wonder if the Braves are waiting around on a team to call them about trading for Lowe before going after an OF/1B. If so, that can’t be a good position to be in. Only teams I’ve read linked to Lowe are the Angels & Brewers. Angels might get Halladay & the Brewers don’t seem like a match unless they get desperate. I’m starting to believe this thing will drag on & on unless Wren can reel in a fool to take Lowe’s full contract in the next few weeks.

shockley

November 24th, 2009
4:16 pm

This just in — the Royals, apparently, have 25 prospects. Am I the only one to find this utterly surprising?

Also, DOB — the XX is a decent newish group. Listening to Crystalised as we speak on 103.1.

Lastly, and bbq is good bbq. Any pig is good pig. Fun fact, even baconnaise rocks…sorry, guilty pleasure.

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
4:19 pm

Wren really does have a ton of options at 1b.

My current 1b pursuit list, guys who are free agents or would be reasonably easy to trade for. This is taking into account first and foremost talent but very much considering salary, length of contract, trade cost to obtain, drinking problems :) , and age:
1) Adrian Gonzalez (lock him up long term or no thanks to the deal)
2) Miguel Cabrera (high risk, but MVP type reward potential)
3) longshots that would cost a ton: Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder or Justin Morneau (each has just a tiny chance of moving so I list them together)
4) Adam Laroche (he’s not bad at all)
5) Young ML ready prospects: Matt Laporta, Chris Davis, Mat Gamels (Each of these three could also play other spots and their clubs might be frustrated with their 09 production)
6) Jermaine Dye (salary might be low enough to be interesting)
7) Hank Blalock (at least has power)
8) Nick Johnson (he should be our worst case scenario)
9) Carlos Pena (expensive trade requirement)
10) Lance Berkman (too expensive salary/likely trade requirements)
11) Derek Lee (no trade clause so not sure I should even list him)
12) Dan Uggla (or any other prado to first talk)
13) Paul Konerko (he isn’t that good, is expensive, will require trading something of value, is old, etc.)
14) something really bad like Diaz to 1b and starting Church in RF (gross)

DAP

November 24th, 2009
4:20 pm

marc in FL, ok, but now get my point…there were 5 players that matched the numbers you cited, on 5 different teams. 2 of those 5 players i know for sure did not even bat 4th in their lineup. that means 27 out of 30 teams failed to get the production you stated was needed out of their cleanup hitter. out of the 3 players who did hit cleanup for their team, only one made the playoffs, which tells me, you dont need a guy with the stats you said were necessary for a cleanup hitter in order to win and make the playoffs.

so i think you need to re-evaluate what kind of production a team must have for a cleanup hitter. its clear that a guy who hits 30+ homers, plays basically everyday and bats around .300 is not critical for a cleanup hitter.

ncscoots

November 24th, 2009
4:20 pm

I’m starting to believe this thing will drag on & on unless Wren can reel in a fool to take Lowe’s full contract in the next few weeks.

I doubt it will “drag on and on”; if the Braves come to believe that Lowe can’t be moved in the right deal, then they will move Vazquez. I don’t have any idea what that drop-dead date might be, but, I can’t imagine Wren will leave himself twisting in the wind because he’s afraid to pull the trigger.

LOL, and I’ll try to include just a few more metaphors in my next post…

O.J.

November 24th, 2009
4:21 pm

P-Town Brave, if you are going to play that game, then why not see what it takes to get Albert Pujols??? Saying “Ok so say the money can be worked” is not realistic.

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
4:23 pm

JJ,
Yeah, I live in Rome. I can hit Shorter College’s Music Building with a BB gun from my back yard.

boonie27,
I’m glad someone got that.

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
4:31 pm

AFL Pitch F/X Fastball Velocity Analysis | Baseball America

Mike Minor AVG – 90.85 MAX – 93.8

Craig Kimbrel AVG – 94.4 MAX – 97.2

Lee Hyde AVG – 92.03 MAX – 94.2

Jeff Lyman AVG – 93.06 Max – 95.7

ugaaccountant

November 24th, 2009
4:32 pm

O.J. The money can be worked out. We have probably 7-9M budgeted for 1b, plus 15M in Lowe. If we trade Lowe we’d have 22-24M available for 1b if that’s where we found a special player like Pujols. Any team with 100M payroll could easily find room for a unanimous MVP.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
4:32 pm

HYPOTHETICAL:

MLB is added a team to baseball, thus an expansion draft is in order. Braves can pick 15 people to be saved from selection in their organization. If you are Braves FO, who do you pick? (and Chipper has to be picked)

Dawg

November 24th, 2009
4:38 pm

Mark in FLA: I agree that LaRoche would be great but we still need a cleanup hitter.

Brandon

November 24th, 2009
4:39 pm

Hanson, Hudson, Jurrjens, Vazquez, McCann, Yunel, Chipper, McClouth, Schafer, Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Minor, Rohrbough and I suppose Lowe in no particular order.

Sgt. Pepper's

November 24th, 2009
4:40 pm

DOB -

That Bobby Abreu tweet earlier today was dirty. Speaking of Twitter, any Braves players on Twitter that you know of?

Do they do white sauce at all in NC with BBQ? A buddy of mine today was claiming white sauce was unique to Alabama, but I was under the impression it was more widespread.

chuckw/deadjournalist

November 24th, 2009
4:42 pm

I was reading an article on SI.com from a December 1985 issue of SI regarding, primarily, the free agency of Kirk Gibson. Interesting article, especially in regards to the Braves interest (or sudden lack on interest) in him

“The most shocking denial has come from Atlanta, where new general manager Bobby Cox said the Braves were more concerned about fiscal responsibility than about Gibson. There are probably a lot of Braves fans, however, who would be more excited by a batting order that had Gibson batting third, Dale Murphy fourth and Bob Horner fifth. It’s probably coincidence, but Cox lost interest in Gibson after Ted Turner had lunch with commissioner Peter Ueberroth.”

I’ve got to admit, I have no recall of Gibson being on the radar, but then again, it was a long time ago. Gibson resigned with the Tigers for two years and had three years (the last of the three with the Dodgers) of good productivity (.275BA/.365OB/.500SGL/.865OPS) before injuries go the best of him.

As it turned out, Murphy’s best days were behind him and Horner was in Japan for ‘87, but the threesome of Gibson/Murphy/Horner would have been pretty amazing.

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
4:42 pm

Hanson, Hudson, Jurrjens, Vazquez, McCann, Yunel, Chipper, McClouth, Schafer, Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Minor, Rohrbough and I suppose Lowe in no particular order.

You only have to protect players on the 40-man roster. Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Minor, and Rohrbough don’t count.

Nick

November 24th, 2009
4:43 pm

Braves will be horrible again next season.

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
4:46 pm

I understand your point DAP, I’m not really even argueing with you, lol. I just think there are several options for a #4 hitter that are better than McCann. The stats I provided aore ideal, no a requirement.

If you’re telling me that having Prince Fielder bat 4t’h would not have been an upgrade over McCann last year, simply because the Brewers didn’t make the playoffs, well I don’t know what to say. Aim high.

In fact, without looking at the stats (which may come back to bite me but I’m in a hurry, lol) here are some guys I’d take in the 4th hole in Brave’s line-up over McCann

Fielder
Puljos
A-Rod
Tex
D. Lee
C. Lee
Miggy C.
Adrian G.
Andre Ethier
Ryan Braun
Matt Holiday
Jason Bay
Nick Markakis
Panda
Joe Mauer (sp?)
Justin Morneau (sp again? lol)
Adam Lind
Aaron Hill
Torri Hunter
Carlos Pena (bad year with the .AVG, but for 2010 I would in a heart beat)
Kendry Morales
Adam Dunn
Ryan Zimmerman (yes, the Nats have TWO guys that are better clean-up hitters than McCann)
C. Beltran
Joey Votto
Evan Longoria

And probably 10 or more, but I really have to go. And that’s without even thinking about it dude, I’ll be back later if you want to debate these, but I think it’s clear that you took the whole thing a little too literal.

RC

November 24th, 2009
4:48 pm

Assuming only players on the 40-man roster have to be protected….

Chipper, McCann, Jurrjens, Hanson, Yunel, McLouth, Hudson, Vazquez, Schafer, Prado, Moylan, Medlen, Kawakami, Diaz, O’Flaherty. (although not sure on those last 3)

RC

November 24th, 2009
4:48 pm

Danggit! Replace Diaz with Infante.

Brandon

November 24th, 2009
4:52 pm

Pwhjort, the question asked by Jurrjens4 NLcy young said within the organization so thats what I posted. MYB

Moe Berg

November 24th, 2009
4:52 pm

Jurrjens4NLCY–Thanks for the tip. Don’t make it out to Schaumburg much but will make the trip for BBQ.

NCmike

November 24th, 2009
4:53 pm

Anyone think that the Braves got a little extra satisfaction in getting Abreu from the Royals? Still maybe some “bad blood” between the two with the Cuevas thing a while back?

Marietta Derek

November 24th, 2009
4:55 pm

Daslied

November 24th, 2009
4:59 pm

Beekay – Brad Miller. Yeah, I cheated. :)

DAP

November 24th, 2009
5:01 pm

marc in FLThe stats I provided aore ideal, no a requirement.

well heck, wouldnt it be ideal to have the player you described batting in every slot in the order?

it seems like some people just dont think mccann can bat 4th, and they dont really have a great reason.

so then you list a bunch of names, which i also have an issue with. folks want to name players they think would be good…but why do you think they would be so good? because you like thier names? give me STATS that you want from there, and when you do, ill show you how unrealistic your being, like i did.

by the way, mccann actually out hit a couple of guys you listed. also, a bunch of the guys you listed arent cleanup hitters, and only 2 of them meet the requirements you listed earlier.

McFann O

November 24th, 2009
5:02 pm

Roman Gal It’s just the first step. Before you know it, you’ll be changing your name to McFlauer and spouting off Mauer stats like they’re second nature!

Yeah…I’m also gonna move up to Philadelphia and buy myself a Victorino jersey at CBP…

10Paul Bogus. Russ Martin all the way.

Who are you, Clint Hurdle?

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
5:02 pm

Thanks for the tip. Don’t make it out to Schaumburg much but will make the trip for BBQ.

My brother used to work there, Champs, Weber Grill, Uncle Julios, the works…

Marietta Derek

November 24th, 2009
5:04 pm

Do the DP 2 C dance!!

Double pits to chesty is hot!!

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
5:05 pm

You only have to protect players on the 40-man roster. Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Minor, and Rohrbough don’t count.

I don’t think so, I think the expansion draft included all in the organization…

I might be wrong though

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
5:06 pm

Rules of the expansion draft:
* For the first round, 15 players from the rosters of their entire organization—both their 40-man roster, plus all minor league affiliates.
* Each team could add three more players to its protected list after each round.
* In addition to the above, players chosen in the 1996 and 1997 amateur drafts were automatically protected, plus players who were 18 or younger when signed in 1995.

So RC & Brandon, it’s all the entire organization…

Chopshop

November 24th, 2009
5:07 pm

What does everyone think about this trade idea ? Lowe to LAA to ATL Fuentes and Brandon Wood. Lowe would make up for the expected departure of Lackey. LAA can’t be that thrilled with the job Fuentes did in the American League. He was better in the NL and only has one year left on his deal. They don’t have a spot open for Wood and Scioscia def isn’t in love with him by how much he has been jerked around in AAA and the majors.

This trade feels a need for both teams. LAA gets a durable starter that is comparable to Lackey with better health record, older, and less total $ committement. Atl get a one year rental closer that doesn’t have great stuff but usually gets the job done and an exciting player with power in Brandon Wood.

wjones

November 24th, 2009
5:13 pm

DOB, are any of the 40-man roster guys out of options? The only ones, off the top of my head, that I could think might be would be Jo-Jo Reyes, Brandon Jones, maybe Sammons, maybe Blanco? Am I missing anyone? Thanks.

Piedmont Blues

November 24th, 2009
5:13 pm

Happy Thanksgiving, DOB and denizens –

Celebrated my 30th reunion at Carolina earlier this month (the gridiron Heels beat Dook) and Parker’s was one of the places that catered the barbecue.

I prefer Bill’s, myself.

Clyde Cooper’s in Raleigh is pretty awesome, too, and they can now call themselves the Official Eastern N.C. Barbecue Provider for U2 (funny story).

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
5:14 pm

If the Mets got Halladay, not damn likely, Is he their Ace? or is Santana?

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
5:16 pm

Is that the real MD or an impostor?

By the way, I wonder if the real MD is still locked up in Philly…..

McFann O

November 24th, 2009
5:18 pm

Marc in FL The fact that he doesn’t know how to situational hit hurts him for now, but is less of an issue every year.

Excuse me? He doesn’t know how to…hmm…OK. Not entirely sure where you dug that one up…unless you’re talking about his “late and close” numbers. 8O

McCann is turning out to be a pull happy low 20’s HR guy

Oh yeah…darn! Who wants a catcher that only hits about 20 homers? Boy is that a gip…We oughta make him a pitcher with that bat.

…that might as well just sit back and watch against left-handers.

That was just this year, dude. You can’t go by one year–one year during which he was half-blind. Just a little unfair if you ask me…

This isn’t a McCann bashing, I love the guy…

Of course…but there were a few things that weren’t entirely accurate. I mean…what exactly is your definition of “situational hitting”? Just curious…because it certainly can’t be this…no offense…

beekay

November 24th, 2009
5:20 pm

Daslied
I guessed Mark Miller myself when I was asked.
Just read that Brandon Lyon is on our radar if Gonzo and Sori leave….not sure I like that at all.

MZ

November 24th, 2009
5:34 pm

DOB —–
Made my way through North Carolina earlier this year, and wish I’d known about all these great places to eat back then … instead, we made a stop in Cameron/Southern Pines and ate at some crappy Mexican place, don’t even remember the name … but, i’ll keep your recommendations in mind for the next time … incidentally, on the same trip, my girlfriend and I were looking for a place to stay between Augusta and Atlanta … much to our chagrin, there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! … however, at some point we happened upon Lake Oconee … nice area, and lucked into finding a place to eat so late at night, That Pizza Place is the name of it, and it was magnificent

Moby Grape

November 24th, 2009
5:34 pm

If we trade Lowe we’d have 22-24M available for 1b if that’s where we found a special player like Pujols. Any team with 100M payroll could easily find room for a unanimous MVP Acct

Almost surely Isn’t going to happen. They have too many areas that need fixing to spend that sort of money on one player. Dream on, we will wake you when the season starts. :)

Soph

November 24th, 2009
5:35 pm

McFlauer! Has a nice ring to it.

:-P

Moby Grape

November 24th, 2009
5:38 pm

but I was under the impression it was more widespread.

probably is, after all there ARE idiots all over

Moby Grape

November 24th, 2009
5:41 pm

Replace Diaz with Infante.

I sure hope you’re kidding.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
5:42 pm

Do they do white sauce at all in NC with BBQ? A buddy of mine today was claiming white sauce was unique to Alabama, but I was under the impression it was more widespread. — Sgt Pepper’s

I think you’re buddy might be right. Not in N.C. Or K.C. I can assure you of that.

BravesFanChris25

November 24th, 2009
5:45 pm

Can’t wait till Thursday.

I’ll be cooking Turkey over night tomorrow night and it will be moist and skin crispy :-)

It’s a recipe I got from someone at work. You only have to cook it on high temperature for 1 hour and then turn the oven off and it’ll cook through the middle of the night. There’s more details, but that’s the gist of it. I have to find the recipe to remember the details of it.

McFann O

November 24th, 2009
5:46 pm

Soph Has a nice ring to it.

Yeah. So does Benedict Arnold…

BravesFanChris25

November 24th, 2009
5:47 pm

I have a 3 ingredient BBQ Sauce that is pure awesomeness.

1 12 ounce Beer or Coke, 1 full small bottle of Ketchup and 1/4 cup of Worcestershire Sauce :-)

You can add onions or whatever, but that’s the main 3 ingredients. Just mix the 3 ingredients and heat it in a small pan.

BravesFanChris25

November 24th, 2009
5:48 pm

A friend of mine gave me that BBQ Sauce recipe.

Rob (from SC)

November 24th, 2009
5:48 pm

I don’t think the Braves are allowed to trade Mike Minor until 1 year after he was signed. I could be wrong

BravesFanChris25

November 24th, 2009
5:51 pm

I like to cook obviously ~_~

As far as targets is concerned. I’d definitely like to get Wagner for CL (I mean he carves up Braves hitters anyways ~_~, so why not?).

I think this Juan Abreu is a low risk high reward signing. Maybe he can figure it all out in ATL.

stynes

November 24th, 2009
5:53 pm

There’s a place in Decatur, Alabama called Big Bob Gibson’s that serves the white sauce. They use mayo as the base and that’s where it gets its color. If you try it with an open mind, it’s not half bad. For me personally, all the different kinds is part of the appeal of BBQ. I’ve eaten it all over the country from NC to KC to TX and most places in between. There’s a ton of variety and most people like what they’re used to – what they grew up on. I like some more than others but I really enjoy trying all the different traditions. All very unique and usually very tasty!

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
5:53 pm

Someone a while back was talking about how much they liked Freedy Johnston. Just wanted to tell you, while thinking about it, that if you haven’t listened to Slaid Cleaves and you like Freedy, you’re in for a treat when you do. They’re similar voices and styles, and both great songwriters. Haven’t really heard anyone else that sounds much like either of them, but they sure sound a lot like each other. (Listening to Slaid’s “Everything You Love Will Be Taken Away” album right now, is why I’m thinking about it. It’s his most recent one, came out this year.)

McCann Fan

November 24th, 2009
6:00 pm

Dave,

Whatever they are paying you, you should ask for more. Always a great column. I wish it was more often, but I am willing to put up with a bi-weekly blog when there is as much depth as yours.

My parents now live in New Bern, NC (from Kentucky) and we always vacationed in Emerald Isle growing up. Do you pass Wilber’s BBQ in Goldsboro on your way over? I remember it being decent.

McCann Fan

November 24th, 2009
6:03 pm

Forgot to ask if you made it to Robert Earl Keen Friday night at Wild Bill’s. Good show, and we were able to get right up in front of the stage.

The Road Goes On Forever………………………………

brian

November 24th, 2009
6:06 pm

Miggy Cabrera is not headed to the Braves. For the Tigers to eat enough salary for the Braves to be interested, they would expect Jurrjens and Freeman in return and that is probably just for starters.

BravesFanChris25

November 24th, 2009
6:08 pm

If any of you guys travel through Pensacola FL (I live in Pensacola), there’s a family BBQ place that has some good BBQ. May not be the greatest or the best ever, but it is pretty good BBQ. It’s called Johnson Family BBQ. They sell BBQ at a local Flea Market I go to sometimes here and they also have their own restaurant if I remember correctly.

TennesseePaul

November 24th, 2009
6:10 pm

Now, I haven’t lived in NC for more than four weeks, but the BBQ sauces I have had in that time have claimed to be Western NC and Eastern NC. And from that Eastern was Vinegar based while Western was Molasses based. But then the Molasses base was at The Pit in Raleigh. Not sure if they are attempting to start a new thing or what. I enjoyed it much better than the Eastern Sauce.

All that said I still favor Mid-Tennessee BBQ as the best. A small place outside of Ashland City, (outside of Nashville) has the best BBQ I’ve ever had. Just down right ridiculous good.

brian

November 24th, 2009
6:14 pm

Braves are also going to be hesitant to commit to long term contracts such as Cabrera’s. The Braves have to plan ahead to get McCann, Hanson, Jurrjens and Heyward signed long term. Those contracts will eat up much of the Braves money getting towards 2013-2014

brian

November 24th, 2009
6:15 pm

I am still a big fan of vinegar based cole slaw – NC style. I am partial to Country BarBQue in Greensboro. Stamey’s is also not bad either

Mike S

November 24th, 2009
6:17 pm

DOB and other Shield lovers; well we were about a year late, but my wife and I just watched the series finale over the weekend. I had always been meaning to get into the show, after hearing so many great things on the blog and from others, but never got a chance to. Finally, about four months ago, we rented season 1 through Blockbuster Online. After being hooked instantly, we blazed through the next six seasons via many 3-4+ episode nights. What a phenomenal show, and a brilliant ending. The whole last couple of seasons you were left wondering how they could possibly end this wild ride, but they pulled it off. I remember several days of comments on here when the finale aired, that I just had to skip over, since I knew I’d watch it eventually. If anyone wants to bring it up again now and reminisce, I’d be game. SO many great characters and amazing acting performances, but alas, no more Vic and Shane for me.

Random, this is where you step in and post a couple pages of DOB and everyone’s recaps, critiques, etc. from last year for me… ;)

BravesFanChris25

November 24th, 2009
6:24 pm

I too like a vinegar based coleslaw over a mayo based.

Here’s a question to you all….

For potato salad, do you prefer mayo or mustard based?

I like both, but I have to give the edge to mustard based.

MZ

November 24th, 2009
6:27 pm

DOB ——–
I’m definitely going to check out Slaid … you know Freedy’s got a new one coming out in Jan. or Feb., according to his web site

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
6:28 pm

For potato salad, do you prefer mayo or mustard based?

Mary Rose please!

dogsbrekky

November 24th, 2009
7:03 pm

Dobi – thank you for the new bloggage

Happy Turkey slaying all of you American savages

In my country we only slaughter the ‘roos

TnBrian

November 24th, 2009
7:17 pm

NOTHING going on with this team except the signing off Tommy John Hudson & two crappy relievers,,, one is a has been & the other is a never-will-be. Wooooo, I’m pumped about the teams progress so far this offseason! How ’bout you?

Ok, that was my vent for the winter… feeling much better now. Call it what you want, but I can’t be the only one getting a little restless here.

VaBraveFan

November 24th, 2009
7:23 pm

TnBrian

Man lol the offseason is just beginning, Dec things will warm up

P. W. Hjort

November 24th, 2009
7:33 pm

Patience. If you build it, they will come.

N8

November 24th, 2009
7:51 pm

TnBrian, please tell me that you’d rather be a little restless than bitching about all the draft picks we would be giving up signing guys BEFORE teams have to offer them arbitration? As for trades? Trades are very rare before the December 1st deadline, unless it’s a deal that has been in the works for a while (like the Renteria/JJJ trade was a couple of winters ago).

Simma Don Nah!

TnBrian

November 24th, 2009
7:53 pm

VaBraveFan, I know that. I just get like a little kid gets a few days before Christmas this time of year with my baseball & the Bravos. I’m warming up to the idea of Cameron. I got a good feeling he could be the Vazquez of 2010 as far as guys being where they’ve always wanted to be & having career years…in the ATL. Who’d have thought Javy would be that good & he’s no spring chicken.

TnBrian

November 24th, 2009
7:58 pm

N8, no they aren’t. You saying trades are “rare” is a little bit too much for me. Do more happen in Dec. than before? Yeah, but I wouldn’t use the word rare. You left off Atlanta getting Vazquez before Dec.1.

TnBrian

November 24th, 2009
8:01 pm

Before I get blasted about the Vazquez deal, I’ll correct myself. It was in December when they got him. Thought it was right before Thanksgiving.

diamondlady01

November 24th, 2009
8:12 pm

DOB,Have you ever eaten BBQ @ Bums in Ayden, NC?

Marc in FL

November 24th, 2009
8:31 pm

DAP –

I’ll just explain this one last time – you want to aim for a hitter that will play most if not every game, hit 30+ homers, and maintain around a .300 AVG. This is not a set in stone requirement, but every club tries to get someone that has the potential to achieve these numbers to hit 4th in their line-up.

Here’s you’re clean-up hitter’s performance:

HR: 72nd in ML, tied for 33rd in NL
AVG: tied 76th ML, 34th in NL
OPS: 56th in ML, 26th in NL
OBP: 84th in ML, 43rd in NL

And Chipper Jones had the worst year in his career batting in front of him.

Those numbers are good, they say he’s a middle of the line-up guy, but he is not a clean-up hitter. His OPS is better than I thought, but it’s the only stat so much as in the top 30. This says nothing about McCann, it speaks volumes about the depth of the Braves line-up.

One last time: we need a real clean-up hitter.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 24th, 2009
8:49 pm

I’ve got some really mixed feelings tonight…I’m PUMPED for some Sons of Anarchy tonight, but bummed that it’s the season finale. Any suggestions from anyone on how to replace SOA for the next several weeks until I can get over my withdrawals that are sure to set in?

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 24th, 2009
8:50 pm

And I love House, NCIS, Mentalist, and others, but they are way different types of shows and won’t be able to ease the ache of no SOA to look forward to on Tuesday nights.

RC

November 24th, 2009
9:04 pm

Jurrjens4NLCY,

In response to your 5:05 pm comment, here’s my updated list. Sorry it’s about 4 hours later :)

Chipper, McCann, Jurrjens, Hanson, Yunel, McLouth, Hudson, Schafer, Prado, Medlen, Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, Teheran, Minor.

It’s really hard to not include Vazquez, but given the conditions of using the entire organization, protecting a player with one year left on his contract doesn’t outweigh a prospect under team control for 6 years.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
9:05 pm

diamondlady: No, I have not. And it’s been a long, long time since I’ve been in Ayden.

brian

November 24th, 2009
9:08 pm

any favorite places to eat in the Piedmont Triad (GSO-High Point-Winston-Salem)?

And Idiot

November 24th, 2009
9:09 pm

Bama’s Mark Ingram made the cover of this week’s Sports Illustrated. Will the curse kick in against Auburn or Florida?

Couch Tater

November 24th, 2009
9:25 pm

Quiet around here

November 24th, 2009
9:32 pm

Nate from NCState

November 24th, 2009
9:41 pm

Since people are throwing out favorite bands, I am really hooked on ROMAN CANDLE right now. They are a group out of Chapel Hill, NC. Great song writing ability, and great jams. One of my new favorites.

Wiki

November 24th, 2009
9:43 pm

My two cents….

The Braves are in a nice position with having the option of dealing one of two “innings-eating” starters. I put both Vazquez and Lowe as having equal value to the Braves going into ‘10…..except for the length of contract difference between the two. The Br
aves are fortunate to have three solid starters virtually locked up for the next three years. Given their upside, there is a good chance that Jurrjens and Hansen can be a #1 and #2…and Hudson gave enough of a sample size to them this past season to believe he can be at least a #2 on an average team (hence the new contract). In general, if a #4 can give you innings, you’re ahead of the game….which I think both Lowe and Vazquez can do in all likelihood. Obviously, Vazquez will command more in a trade but either way, they’re looking at a return of young talent and/or significant salary relief. I’m not sure what they do from there but they are dealing from strength and that’s good. I give Mr Wren credit…..I think he has been more agressive than JS to this point and has made some shrewd moves. I have faith in the guy.

trueform

November 24th, 2009
9:46 pm

And Idiot

November 24th, 2009
9:47 pm

Favorite band – Sons of William (formerly Joe Stark) The kids are awesome.

And Idiot

November 24th, 2009
9:50 pm

trueform

not bad

N8

November 24th, 2009
9:55 pm

“Before I get blasted about the Vazquez deal, I’ll correct myself. It was in December when they got him. Thought it was right before Thanksgiving.” TnBrian

Good thing you corrected yourself, and good thing I saw it. I was about to “blast” you. :-)

Perhaps rare was a strong word. But you know what I meant. Most teams with commodities to trade, are going to wait until the free agency period truly begins to make trades, just to assure themselves of getting max value, unless a team is willing to give up exactly the guy they wanted in return. Like Detroit wanting Renteria. Besides, as I said, it has been documented that Wren and the Tigers GM started that conversation long before that trade took place. So the deal was already in motion and that’s why that deal happened quickly.

There might be trades this week and after Thanksgiving has passed. But the real clock shouldn’t start ticking until after the 1st.

But panic away, my friend. LOL

deion

November 24th, 2009
10:00 pm

Where McCarver at?

GboroBravo

November 24th, 2009
10:06 pm

•Adam Rubin of the New York Daily News reports that Jose Guillen would be willing to waive his limited no-trade clause in order to be dealt to the Mets. The Royals have reportedly proposed an Angel Pagan-for-Guillen swap that would also see Kansas City include some cash to help the Mets pay for Guillen’s $12MM salary next season. Guillen hit .242/.314/.367 in 312 plate appearances for K.C. during his injury-plagued 2009 season, and it’s probably for those reasons that Rubin thinks the trade is a long-shot to actually happen

McFann O

November 24th, 2009
10:06 pm

Marc in FL And Chipper Jones had the worst year in his career batting in front of him.

Oh my lord…

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
10:11 pm

RC,

Thats a good list, but Minor would already be protected, so you got one more pick…

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
10:15 pm

Mike S: I’m with you on The Shield. Miss that show a lot. Fortunately, Sons of Anarchy is just about as good (and almost as violent)….

Macon Braves: Tonight’s not season finale of SOA — it’s next-to-last. Getting ready to start it now … on dvr

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
10:18 pm

NateFromNCState: Good call on Roman Candle. I’ve got the Wee Hours Revue CD. Excellent. They put out anything since?

By the way, you know that was also the name of Elliott Smith’s debut album, right? Roman Candle.

David O'Brien

November 24th, 2009
10:20 pm

Brian, we’re planning to eat at Smiley’s BBQ in Lexington tomorrow on drive to Wilson. After that, it’s all Eastern N.C. BBQ for rest of week, Parker’s and at least one or two other spots in Wilson area. Gotta lay off the turkey so I can eat more Q this week.

DAP

November 24th, 2009
10:23 pm

Marc in FL, you have no idea what a “real cleanup hitter” is. You started by naming off some stats that are bench marks or should be attianable for cleanup hitters that are totally unrealistic and obviously unnessesary for a cleanup hitter. Then you listed 15 or more players you thought would be good cleanup hitters, a couple which didn’t even outhit mccann last year, and most of which didn’t come close to your bench mark that you quoted earlier.

RobU

November 24th, 2009
10:24 pm

Apparently Yunel wants to play in the Dominican Winter league. I wonder if the Braves will let him?

RC

November 24th, 2009
10:25 pm

Jurrjens4NLCY,

Hmm…tempting to say Delgado, but I think with the other young pitching he’d be expendable. Probably Moylan, since he’s under team control for 3 years at arbitration rates, although Kawakami is a close 2nd.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 24th, 2009
10:25 pm

I know some of you Georgia native are gunna kill me for saying this but every time I go down there, I let myself go on Sonny’s

Nate from NCState

November 24th, 2009
10:31 pm

Oh DOB, man are you in for a treat. They just put out a new album in May and it is great. They came to State and played a concert, one of the best ones I have seen, and most of their stuff was from the new album.

“Oh Tall Tree in the Ear” is the album…

and that’s why modern radio is A-OK with me…

Nate from NCState

November 24th, 2009
10:34 pm

Oh ya, DOB. If I say I don’t know who Elliott Smith is, can we still be friends?

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
10:34 pm

Marc in FL,

Yes the Braves need a true cleanup hitter, Everyone knows that. McCann is a #5 hitter. But ever since steroid testing has been more prevalent, guys that hit 30+hr are diminishing. To be honest there is really no clean up hitter that is realistically attainable for the Braves. Bay, Holliday are to expensive. Cabrera won’t happen. and A. Gonzalez is a long shot. Thats why I’ve said over and over he needs to build the line up solidly with guys that can hit 20-25 Hr.

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
10:37 pm

In all honesty McCann will probably be our #4 hitter come opening day and if the line up is solid then I’m 100% behind it.

matt

November 24th, 2009
10:53 pm

i keep reading that the tigers are almost trying to “give” edwin jackson away.if this is the case why not go after him and then be able to try and trade lowe and kawakami? i think this would make our rotation even stronger and give us more money to spend elsewhere.

nolie

November 24th, 2009
10:57 pm

McCann will probably be our #4 hitter come opening day and if the line up is solid then I’m 100% behind it. p’cola

you mean that the cards turned down the jojo/kj deal for pujols? damn i thought that was a dun deal.
i’m ok with what you said too though

Roman Gal

November 24th, 2009
10:58 pm

Some of you understandably would like to know what’s going to happen, would like to be told point-blank that the Braves aren’t trading Vazquez or they are trading Lowe or they are or aren’t open to trading Jordan Schafer, etc.

I like how Schafer’s name is the only one that is bolded in this paragraph. It was a real eye-catcher for me.

18 Wheels of Love

November 24th, 2009
11:01 pm

Best band ever out of Chapel Hill is Hobex. Their album, ‘Back in the 90’s’, should be in the Smithsonian.

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
11:04 pm

nolie, Nah they didnt except it. They wanted Brandon Jones to and Wren told em no deal.

Roman Gal

November 24th, 2009
11:04 pm

And speaking of guys that Heyward might have admired … how about former Brave Jermaine Dye, who was a Braves rookie in 1996 when Heyward was, what, 7? OK, so he probably doesn’t even remember Dye from that Braves era, but anyway…

I’ll speak for 20 year olds everywhere…I didn’t know that Dye played for the Braves before until I read about a bunch of people on here talking about how trading him was such a big mistake.

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
11:04 pm

I mean accept. sorry.

jeffrey d

November 24th, 2009
11:08 pm

I’ll speak for 20 year olds everywhere…I didn’t know that Dye played for the Braves

Maybe I’m just an older 20 year old, but I remember him

Nate from NCState

November 24th, 2009
11:15 pm

Yeah I remember Dye as well. Ron Gant, David Justice, Ryan Klesko… all those guys.

TnBrian

November 24th, 2009
11:16 pm

N8, believe me, I’m not panicking at all. Am I anxious? Of course, but who isn’t ready for the real stuff to start this offseason? Unless he gets a multi-year offer to close at age 39 & another team has two type A free agent “closers” leaving, Wagner is a Brave next year. Makes too much sense for us. I feel sure on that. I’m playing O’Brien here.

I’m going to say it– I don’t like turkey. I can eat the sh** out of some ham, but turkey doesn’t do it for me. Not big on stuffing either. Ham, mashed potatoes, green beans, rolls & my mom’s macoroni casserole with a miller light is all I need.

Goldenglove002

November 24th, 2009
11:17 pm

Just read through the whole blog, and man am I hungry now. If only you could find good BBQ at my house…

This Juan Abreu guy sounds like he’s pretty similair to Kimbrel. Good heat and K’s, but command issues. Could be a pretty good pairing if they get the command problems under control.

Roman Gal

November 24th, 2009
11:17 pm

He really is the most underrated player in baseball. Efrim

Behind Jason Werth that is…

Roman Gal

November 24th, 2009
11:19 pm

Ron Gant, David Justice, Ryan Klesko… all those guys.

These people I remember. I don’t know why I don’t remember Dye, because I remember when Chipper was a rookie and all that. He just didn’t make that big of an impression on me, I suppose.

It’s a strange world we live in.

jeffrey d

November 24th, 2009
11:21 pm

I remember when Chipper was a rookie and all that. He just didn’t make that big of an impression on me

lol, I actually don’t remember Chipper being a rookie that much. Although I do remember the newspaper headline “Chipper the Gripper”

TnBrian

November 24th, 2009
11:21 pm

Roman Gal, I was 14 years old when Dye was a Brave & I can’t remember one play or one at bat he had with Atl. They obviously didn’t think much of him giving him up for Tucker & Lockhart who I guess were projected to be better than what they turned in to, but still.

P'cola Brave

November 24th, 2009
11:23 pm

It ended up being a mistake but at that time I don’t remember Dye being a superstar for us.

Nate from NCState

November 24th, 2009
11:25 pm

The only thing I really remember about Chipper’s rookie year is how Hideo Nomo won the rookie of the year award over him even though Nomo was like 38. Exaggeration I know, but still, it irked me.

Roman Gal

November 24th, 2009
11:25 pm

I was looking at Shorter College for a while… JJ4CY

Yeesh. Who in their right mind would want to go there?

Moe Berg

November 24th, 2009
11:27 pm

Jurrjens4NLCY–On your Sonny’s comment. While I would never rank it in a top tier BBQ. I understand the sentiment. I do enjoy it, or rather, my mother does, and so I end up having it a decent bit when back home.

On an unrelated point. I’m following the India/Sri Lanka cricket test match right now. India is batting very well after looking lackluster in the first match. (I know I’ve mentioned cricket on here before, which has fallen on deaf ears, but keep thinking that someone else on here must follow it.)

Roman Gal

November 24th, 2009
11:27 pm

Although I do remember the newspaper headline “Chipper the Gripper”

Chipper the Gripper? Haha…I’m going to miss newspapers when they’re gone. They’re so clever!

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
11:27 pm

gIT sCHAFER OUTTA HERE!!!

Joebrave

November 24th, 2009
11:28 pm

HAHA jibbin ya Roman Gal!

Roman Gal

November 24th, 2009
11:28 pm

I can’t remember one play or one at bat he had with Atl. TnBrian

Me neither. The only time I ever saw him play for the Braves was on ESPN Classic in the 1996 World Series…I think it was just last summer.

brian

November 24th, 2009
11:28 pm

have a great trip DOB. I will have to make the drive to Smiley’s. I live here and I am craving BBQ. From someone who grew up in Atlanta but now lives in NOrth Carolina – Atlanta has nothing compared to North Carolina when it comes to BBQ.

Thanks again for “feeding” my hunger for Braves baseball

Roman Gal

November 24th, 2009
11:32 pm

Yeah…I’m also gonna move up to Philadelphia and buy myself a Victorino jersey at CBP… McFann

Don’t worry McFann, we won’t let you sink to that level. We got your back here.

nolie

November 24th, 2009
11:39 pm

The only time I ever saw him play for the Braves was on ESPN Classic in the 1996 World Series…I think it was just last summer RG

It’s not too surprising that you don’t remember him, that’s the only season he had with Atlanta. Played half a season hit 12 homers and almost never walked.Nothing to indicate how good he would become. Was hurt a lot the first few years after he left, so it took him a while to fet started. Has had 5 or 6 fine years, but has missed some playing time and had some mediocre years too. Even if he hadn’t been traded that year, it’s unlikely they would have put up with the injuries the next two seasons and kept him around, but you never know for sure.

Moe Berg

November 24th, 2009
11:41 pm

I hate it to see players with great potential that keep having injuries. Griffey, Jr., before he started having his, Kevin Brown, or even Mike Hampton come to mind. There are many of them. But still sad.

uga-brave

November 24th, 2009
11:44 pm

dye was also part of one of the most pivotal plays in the 96 world series. got screened out by the right field umpire.

brian

November 24th, 2009
11:54 pm

Moe Berg – that is part of what makes the Hall of Famers and career record holders so impressive. Talent, durability, and luck.

Moe Berg

November 25th, 2009
12:02 am

brian, I completely agree. Talent is necessary but by no means sufficient. Many people may have the talent but not the luck, the durability, and the drive. That is what is sad–someone with the raw talent but not the discipline to become great.

Moe Berg

November 25th, 2009
12:04 am

Damn. I keep writing this pith Hallmark card-like sentiments because I keep scurrying to the kitchen to check on the cooking.

Moe Berg

November 25th, 2009
12:06 am

pithy, not pith

nolie

November 25th, 2009
1:03 am

pithy, not pith Moe

are you lisping?

Moe Berg

November 25th, 2009
1:07 am

I believe, I am…perhaps a bit too much nipping at the scotch, while cooking.

Wiki

November 25th, 2009
1:48 am

Dye was called up from Richmond when Justice was hurt, I’m thinking around May ‘06. He hit a homerun in his first at bat. Nothing much else spectacular.

Wiki

November 25th, 2009
1:49 am

I meant May ‘96 of course.

Wayne in Utah

November 25th, 2009
1:51 am

Did a little catching up on the blog, but couldn’t read everything. Got hungry reading about Q though!

What’s up with this white sauce? I am a mayo guy. No mustard, except in BBQ sauce.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 25th, 2009
2:04 am

I’m watching the cinematic masterpiece “Under the Gaydar.” The acting is so sad, it’s hilarious.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 25th, 2009
2:07 am

I meant bad, not sad…

…oh wait.

Evan

November 25th, 2009
4:48 am

I remember when Dye was with the Braves he split time with Mark Whitten in RF, and I always like Dye more. I was only ten or so at the time though, so I’m sure it was only based on the games I had watched and not any actual statistics.

Bluestreak

November 25th, 2009
6:24 am

I remember sitting at Hot Wing Cafe in Riverdale and watching Dye hit a homer in his first at bat at Turner Field. At least, that’s how I remember it.
I always looked at Dye as the second coming of Justice, who I thought was the best when he was starting to come up (before the Murph trade) and I think the Braves gave up too soon on him. I put that one up there as one of the few Scherholtz miscalculations.

ncscoots

November 25th, 2009
6:25 am

I just want to pause and spread some thanks, since it’s the season to do so. Thanks to all my blog buddies here, men and women with whom I’ve been conversing so long that we’ve become friends of a sort, despite anonymity, and to the Notorious Crusading Everyman, for providing the forum and for his passion in administering it. It’s a heckuva place, and while I might get peeved and rant about some of its denzines occasionally, it keeps me coming back. Can’t ask for much more than that. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!

10-80

November 25th, 2009
7:29 am

agreed Scoots. longtime lurker, seldom poster. But i enjoy this blog for the baseball, rumors, music, food, and humor it provides constantly. thanks to all.

Bill M.

November 25th, 2009
7:30 am

Put Heyward, Schafer & McClouth in OF and let them grow into the position. I’m tired of these washed up old players. Trade Lowe or Vasquez for some top notch prospects. Find a RH bat to play first.until Freeman is ready. The Braves might have a chance for the wild card in 2010 but 2011 will be the year.
Try Melear’a BBQ. Can’t remember if it’s in Riverdale or Fayetteville. It’s a family run business and have been in business forever.

CB

November 25th, 2009
7:33 am

DOB,saw you were going to Smileys while in Lexington,don’t know if you have ever tried Monk’s aka Lexington BBQ. I think it is better

Billy Walsh

November 25th, 2009
7:39 am

Bill M,

Totally agree. If the braves can’t sign Bay or Holiday (which they can’t)…why not trade a Lowe and use the money to resign Laroche, sure up the bullpen, and let Heyward and Schafer play.

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
8:09 am

Happy Thanksgiving, scoots! And to everyone else on the blog. And to DOB, for writing one of the best blogs out there. Much appreciated.

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
8:14 am

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4687981

Red Sox “after” Halladay. Also, a quote from Olney’s twitter:

Spoke with an executive who was told flat-out: Adrian Gonzalez is not available. Timing isn’t right; that might change before July 31, 2010.

I bet Adrian Gonzalez and Felix Hernandez stay put this winter. I expect Gonzalez to be traded at some point, but I think the price that they are asking for is too high for ANY team to provide. It’ll come down(slightly), next summer, which is when I think they will decide to deal him, provided they are out of the NL West race. I’d expect Felix to resign with the M’s, as well as Mauer with the Twins. So that makes Halladay the prime available player this winter, and I think the Red Sox are the best fit. This is great news for the Braves, because then you have two potential landing spots for Lowe in the Yankees and Angels. Lackey is still around, but I think the Mets may need him the most, so we’ll see.

CB

November 25th, 2009
8:27 am

What does it mean to have a blog like this to share our love for the Braves and the game of baseball? It truely is priceless- most of us before the computer age had only our immediate friends or going to a bar to share or going to the game. I came on board the blog one year ago and immediately felt like I was in the right place, a place where I could express an opinion and read others. I would just like to say thank you to all the friends I feel have enriched my life,and most of all thanks to DOB for his dedication to us. It is hard to believe the time he is willing to share with us, has to be way above his obligation to his job. Thanks to all.

Billy Walsh

November 25th, 2009
8:37 am

Efrim,

If the sox are going after Hallady you know that the Yankees are going to get involved. I think the Yankees have the talent to land him.

Poorbrave

November 25th, 2009
8:43 am

Happy Thanksgiving DOB. Have a safe trip and don’t eat to much BBQ and Turkey. Looking for better things in 2010.

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
8:45 am

If the sox are going after Hallady you know that the Yankees are going to get involved. I think the Yankees have the talent to land him.

Billy Walsh, I agree that they have the talent to land him, but the Sox have a better system overall, and more of a need, imo.

McFann O

November 25th, 2009
8:47 am

Roman Gal Don’t worry McFann, we won’t let you sink to that level. We got your back here.

Haha, thanks! I would never allow myself to do such a thing, either…I try to lead a clean life.

Poorbrave

November 25th, 2009
8:47 am

Excuse me…Happy thanksgiving to everyone. You are a big part of my everyday life, love you all even when we don’t agree. Gods speed to U all.

Braveheart

November 25th, 2009
8:47 am

And here I was beginning to think Scoots only knew how to celebrate Spanksgiving, with his daily scoldings of numbletards…….

Lew

November 25th, 2009
8:52 am

CB-Yeah, it IS a pretty interesting place most of the time. I’ve always felt that I could ask any question here and someone will know the answer-usually many more than one.

Hope everyone enjoys that turkey and BBQ this weekend. And don’t forget pie in remebrance of LeTwan and His Mama.

Richie

November 25th, 2009
8:57 am

I would really like to see the Braves go after Cabrera. He is the impact bat this lineup needs to balance things out. And he is the same age as BMac. Imagine the damage that could be done having him, Mac, and Yuni batting back to back to back, along with Chipper. I like that. I can understand the Braves attempting to be cost-conscious, but this is a hitter in the Albert Pujols mold. Not the same hitter because he does K 100+ times a year but his hits over .300, 30+ homers, 100+ rbi’s. Young, established, middle of the order bats like this don’t come cheap. Better yet, nowadays middle of the order bats aren’t cheap. This is the type of move Wren should make. 120 over 6 years, for the type of production he would provide is fine. Remember, he is 26 going on 27, so even when his contract is up, he’ll only be 32 and the Braves can let him walk or re-sign him. The cost evens out once the Braves start winning because more fans will come the more the Braves win. The Braves have been having a tough time getting a RH’d power bat to make up for the loss of Tex. This is that bat. They really should to make this move. Will give the Braves Big Cat- type Production.

dpelfrey

November 25th, 2009
9:04 am

Bowman’s latest talks about Marlon Byrd as a possible addition. If anyone thinks he’s a good option, I respectfully ask that you look up his home/away splits since he’s been in Texas.

I hope we all agree that Byrd is another beneficiary of playing in Arlington and is not an acceptable option.

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
9:10 am

dpelfrey, I bet the Braves have interest in a lot of players at this point. I liked this part from Bowman’s article:

This need stems from the fact that Rafael Soriano and Gonzalez could sign elsewhere this winter. The Braves are expected to offer arbitration to both of these free-agent relievers, who have been classified as Type-A free agents.

Let’s hope he is right.

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
9:10 am

DAB – going way back to your post at 3:58 yesterday –

I ate at the first Hardees on 10th Street so much while at ECU (1969-73) I got sick of it. Sadly, they had a fire and closed down several years ago.
Also ate some across the street at Little Mint, but it wasn’t great. It was next to a laundry mat that I used.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
9:11 am

I wonder if Marlon Byrd does a cute little arm-swing like his brother Paul

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
9:11 am

Should be DOB – Bad typo and proofreading

dmack2027

November 25th, 2009
9:12 am

Really like the idea of adding Mike Cameron. He might be getting older, but keeps himself in great shape and his numbers are very consistent. You can pretty much pencil him in for 20-25 homers and 70 RBIs. He is right handed, could be had fairly cheap, and would not cost much in the way of prospects or pitchers (like Swisher). On top of that, he would not be a defensive liability in whatever OF spot you place him in.

I think the Braves should offer arbitration to all three of their free agents. Soriano had a great year, and would be foolish to risk injury for a year of arbitration. His stock is as high now as it has ever been. He will take and get a multi year deal from a team. Same goes for Gonzo, though I hope the Braves bring him back. I do not like the idea of entrusting the closer’s position to an older player coming off serious surgery.

Lew

November 25th, 2009
9:15 am

Will give the Braves fits when he gets drunk and beats up on his wife-and all for just $20 million a year. How could we go wrong?

CB

November 25th, 2009
9:20 am

jeffrey d,if he does I hope he does it somewhere else. I would agree with what Bill M said,I don’t any more over the hill players. Give us a good player,or go with a combination of Diaz,McLouth,Heyward and Schafer. Let them learn on the job.

7

November 25th, 2009
9:24 am

Might fit right in with BC, LEW

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
9:30 am

I’ll add my thanks to everyone. I have been a regular reader much longer than a contributor. Look forward to a new blog every time, and enjoy everyone’s comments. I love the different points of view, even the unrealistic and strange ones. I even tolerate Don – everyone is entitled to an opinion, and anyway, Bobby will be gone after this year.

DOB – You are teriffic. You loose me on the music (I’m an old fart), but I love the baseball and food talk, especially BBQ which is a passion of mine.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
9:32 am

I would agree with what Bill M said,I don’t any more over the hill players

In order to be over the hill you’d have to be at one point great. He’s never been anything special.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
9:35 am

I try to lead a clean life. McFann

You mean aside from all the filthy language on the blog. Sometimes I feel like I’m talking with a sailor.

McFann O

November 25th, 2009
9:36 am

And Happy Turkey Day to you, Poorbrave and raleighbravefan!

CB

November 25th, 2009
9:36 am

agreed,jeffrey. I also meant some of the other names that keep coming up like Jermaine Dye.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 25th, 2009
9:37 am

DOB–Thanks for the correction, glad I’ll get one more week of SOA anyway. I haven’t watched last nights show yet, gonna watch it when I get home today. I get off at lunch, but the wife and kids won’t get home until 6:00 or so tonight so I’ve got a couple of shows to kick back and enjoy in the peace and quiet that (hopefully) will be my afternoon.

So one more week of SOA, and then I’ll have to start the search for a replacement. One show I’m REALLY looking forward too, though it doesn’t start until March, is “The Pacific”. It’s gonna be on HBO and is produced and all by the same group that made “Band of Brothers” (Tom Hanks, Steven Spielberg,etc.). It’s (obviously) based on the war in the Pacific. Looks like it’s gonna be another fabulous miniseries for HBO. It’s about time they came up with another good series, other than Curb Your Enthusiasm this season, HBO miniseries have been very disappointing the last few years for me.

MoBrave

November 25th, 2009
9:38 am

If it’s impossible to find a 40 hr guy to stick in the middle of the lineup, wouldn’t it make sense to find a couple of 20-25 hr guys — one at 1B and one in the OF? Resign LaRoche and get a 20-25 guy for left, find a closer and let’s play ball!

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
9:39 am

dmack, Lew, and CB – agree with all af you. We don’t need to bring in a highprice, highrisk for problems guy with a long high $ contract. (for long high $ contracts see Lowe).
Cameron is a good fit, or resign Roachy. Give the young talent a chance in the outfield. Try to trade Lowe, and use the money on Raochy and bullpin.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
9:43 am

Yeah CB, we have to remember that these rumors are just rumors. Some people talk and act like Wren is laboring over these decisions and doing whatever he can to sign Cameron or Dye with the biggest contract possible. I trust him.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 25th, 2009
9:50 am

I’m kinda digging the thought of Cameron being brought in now. He would fit in nicely in the OF mix. He can play CF and let McLouth slide over to LF. Plus, if Heyward or Schafer come up and prove they belong in the majors (I know some have given up on Schafer, but I’m not one of those), Cameron would be a great veteran presence(sp?) in the OF to bring them along. And hopefully, being a veteran, he wouldn’t mind taking a few extra days off from time to time to give the kids some playing time.

Don

November 25th, 2009
9:50 am

David:
Obviously Bobby Cox is under contract for the 2010 season. But this does not mean that they could not buy out his contract and him be replaced. Nor does it mean that this is not the most obvious, most pressing, and most significant way in which the team could be improved. Yet the Braves plan, fret, worry over possible trades, free agent signings etc. – and yet ignore the thing that would have more impact than any possible additios of players. Granted it is not going to happen. But my point is that they ignore the simple best way to improve that would cost very little and pursue other possible options that would not be nearly as significant.

CB

November 25th, 2009
9:50 am

raleighbravefan,to clarify my feelings,I don’t have a problem with spending the money on a productive player like Bay or Cabrera. I just would rather not spend money on mediocre players when we can fill the positions with prospects who could be developing.

AndyC

November 25th, 2009
9:56 am

DOB

My Mom is from Asheville, NC and there is a great BBQ place there. I can’t think of the name of it. Pulled pork is great and the hush puppies are to die for.

O.J.

November 25th, 2009
9:57 am

Mike Cameron seems like he is the type of player that has to play everyday in order to be consistent. I dont think he is the platoon type of player cause he could easily get rusty. But I could be wrong.

6-4-3

November 25th, 2009
9:58 am

I don’t think we should give up on Schafer. He’s got talent and will probably turn out to be a Sizemore-lite type player in a year or two.

Don’t want to see him pulling that off for another team, that would be painful.

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
10:06 am

CB – I agree compleatly.

Don – We disagree, but it doesn’t matter. The braves org. loves Bobby, and he isn’t going anywhere in 2010. Why dwell on it?

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
10:09 am

Nobody’s giving up on Schafer except for the loony bloggers.

ugaaccountant

November 25th, 2009
10:14 am

I don’t even see Miguel as a high risk guy. As shown yesterday, the day after his late night drinking/domestic dispute, he had a great game. Everyone says he has a reputation as a drinker and it hasn’t affected his game, even after being on a huge contract. The guy is set for life and he went out and had another MVP contending season!

Plus he’s young and plays a relatively safe position as far as injuries.

His money’s very high, but that’s the price of a real cleanup hitter these days. We made a big mistake with Tex, let’s fix that if the price is as low as the media is currently assuming.

If the Red Sox version of the trade is Clay Bucholz, etc., but the Red Sox are more likely to use him to fix a more pressing need in Roy Halladay, then we can certainly come up with something for Cabrera. Same story for Adrian Gonzalez if he signs an extension before hand, whichever comes cheaper in terms of prospects given.

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
10:14 am

jeffrey d – Agree. Schafer still has great potential. Much of his problems came from injured wrist. Matuity is also a factor. Both problems should work themselves out.
I don’t like giving up young talent ever, but prospects are just that. You have to weigh thier potential and cost vs. known value of veterans. I don’t like high priced old guys.

ugaaccountant

November 25th, 2009
10:21 am

I like Schafer more than many of these veteran of’s discussed. I’d so rather spend a lot on a stud and use Schafer than have two old, declining mid-salary players and Schafer in the minors. A superstar like Miguel Cabrera and a speedy CF has way more impact on a game (and on attendance) than say Jermaine Dye + Nick Johnson.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 25th, 2009
10:22 am

OJ–don’t know if you were refering to my post about Cameron taking a few extra days off during the year or not, but if so, I wasn’t talking platoon. I was saying rather than him playing 150 or so games, hopefully he wouldn’t be upset only playing 130 or so games (health problems of course could make that less and my point would be moot) and giving another 20 or 30 games from CF to get the kids some time. Heyward obviously wouldn’t be playing CF so I guess it actually wouldn’t matter for his playing time if he was on the major league roster. But if Schafer were on the big league roster, he can play all three outfield spots at any time, so those other 20 or 30 games open in CF would allow him to get more at bats over the season. I certainly wouldn’t want to see him sitting the bench all the time if he was in Atlanta, if that was the case I think Gwinnett would be the better place for him to be.

Mitchie-san

November 25th, 2009
10:22 am

“You mean aside from all the filthy language on the blog. Sometimes I feel like I’m talking with a sailor.” –jeffery d

Sometimes you are.

10

November 25th, 2009
10:30 am

6 years, $120 million for Cabrera coming off the drunken incident.

8 years, $120 million for Chipper coming off of the Hooters incident.

6 years, $75 million for Andruw coming off the Gold Club incident.

15 years of contracts for Bobby Cox after the domestic violence incident.

Miguel Cabrera hasn’t cornered the market on drunken, immature, reckless behavior with women.

McFann O

November 25th, 2009
10:35 am

jeffrey d You mean aside from all the filthy language on the blog. Sometimes I feel like I’m talking with a sailor.

:lol: Forgot about that…guess I do need to watch that…

Mitchie-san

So are you in the Navy? My Dad’s parents were in the Navy (pretty sure Grandpa was…).

VaBraveFan

November 25th, 2009
10:48 am

I dont know about yall but i’m getting hungry lol

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
10:48 am

And you think they’re stupid on this blog. From Mark Bradley’s UGA/Tech story:

give me a break if you think that georgia is history i know where their is a brain doctor i can sent you to they will be back they don.t say to long you much be stuiped

McFann O

November 25th, 2009
10:51 am

jeffrey d

:lol: That’s a classic, that is.

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
10:52 am

10 – All true, but there were no repeates with the other guys. Cabrera seems to be a repeat offender. I would need some reasurance that he has cleaned up his act before even considering him. We’re talking about a major $$ long-term commitment.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
10:54 am

I dunno. There’s no way you can type “much be stuiped” while meaning “must be stupid,” look at it, and say “well that makes sense.”

I’d like to say that it’s either a joke or he’s drunk. But 1) That’s too precisely stupid to be a joke, and 2) It’s a little early to be drinking. Maybe he is just stuiped.

Norton2010

November 25th, 2009
10:57 am

Braves Lineup should be…

CF Nate McLouth
1B Martin Prado
3B Chipper Jones
C Brian McCann
SS Yunel Escobar
2B Kelly Johnson
LF Matt Diaz
RF Ryan Church

Now that’s an awesome lineup. Think we can get any of those guys.

McFann O

November 25th, 2009
10:58 am

jeffrey d There’s no way you can type “much be stuiped” while meaning “must be stupid,” look at it, and say “well that makes sense.”

That’s what I was thinking…maybe it’s a 5 year old?

Maybe he is just stuiped.

:lol: Think we have a new word to add to the Blog Dictionary…

Norton2010

November 25th, 2009
11:00 am

To be honest it probably wouldn’t be a bad lineup. A whole season without Loaf, Frenchy, and Schaffee’s wrist injury equals playoffs. And hopefully Kelly would bounce back. If he doesn’t you can always resign they great switch hitting Greg Norton and plug him into first and move Prado back to second.

Norton2010

November 25th, 2009
11:02 am

I meant the not they. How am I going to replace DOB as the Braves beat writer if I can’t even get my spelling correct?

TnBrian

November 25th, 2009
11:04 am

Norton2010 is Bobby Cox posting here today. “GO GET ‘EM KELSTER”!!! Seriously, Cox would definitely approve that lineup, no question about it.

Bobby

November 25th, 2009
11:06 am

Norton2010: Don’t forget you have Infante to spell Kelly if need be.

Lew

November 25th, 2009
11:08 am

7-Apparently BC’s episode was a one time thing. Cabrera is starting to make a habit of the drinking and assorted extracurriculars. BC also is not making $20-22 mil per year for the next six years, either.

I’m not one to condone domestic violence, having never hit my wife in 35 years, but let’s put things in a bit of perspective here. One was an older guy who hadn’t done something like this before or since (that we know about) that likely lashed out in a frustrated moment. Cabrera is apparently just getting started on his learning curve and couldn’t even restrain his partying long enough to show up in decent shape for the biggest game of his career.

Fischerking04

November 25th, 2009
11:09 am

Lots of festivity in the air. Reminds me of the line of King of the Hill when Hank asks John Redcorn if his people celebrate Thanksgiving and he says “We did…..once.” Funny stuff.

I am hoping for Mike Cameron based on his FA status, likely very affordable price and willingness to take a 1 year deal, but most importantly his consistancy. Our line-up could use that for sure.

Cabrera is a nut case. I don’t want to give up anything for him and then pay him a king’s ransom to play here. I’d rather have guys that you don’t have to worry when they will get in trouble next.

Norton2010

November 25th, 2009
11:09 am

Bench could be

C Dave Ross
1B Barbaro Canizares
IF Brooks Conrad
OF Gregor Blanco
UT Omar Infante

Lew

November 25th, 2009
11:14 am

I sure as hell hope our bench is better than that. Blanco and Conrad? Wow. I’m overwhelmed.

Lew

November 25th, 2009
11:14 am

Not to mention Canizares. Surely we can do much better than that for a bench?

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
11:16 am

But remember Conrad’s first 30 ABs? He’s magical

DAP

November 25th, 2009
11:19 am

its certainly not the worst team ive ever seen, but it surely wont get us into the playoffs. the good thing is, the braves have plenty of resources and options to improve the team for 2010. i think we have a chance to be one of the best teams in the majors next season, if everything goes right.

RHR

November 25th, 2009
11:20 am

Oh look. A new member of the KJ club. :roll:

Lew

November 25th, 2009
11:21 am

jeffrey d-Give me a freaking break Dude. Conrad ended up with a ML total of .192, .234OBP and a slg% of .356. His first 30 AB’s? He ended up with 77 for his entire career and didn’t hit any more HR’s and still has a sub Mendoza BA, OBP and SLG.

Canziares has a .190, .190, .238 record in 21 PA.

Both of these players are 30 something never weres and will remain never will bes.

18 Wheels of Love

November 25th, 2009
11:22 am

Hooters incident? What, did Chipper hold up a Hooters or something? If she had worked at the Varsity would it have been known as The Varsity incident? I’m just wondering. And didn’t Darren Daulton have a Hooters incident? I kind of remember him being in the outfield and her actually being on the outfield wall billboard.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
11:23 am

Oh look. A new member of the KJ club.

We’re about to get jackets and cool ID badges.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
11:24 am

…I wasn’t serious about Conrad

Billy Walsh

November 25th, 2009
11:25 am

Wells pitched a perfect game hung over, Mantle and the 50’s yanks partied until the wee hours, and Ruth’s exploits are legendary. Cabrera does do some stupid things, however, I could over look them if he hit in the mid 300’s and knocked 30+ homeruns, 100 + rbis, and scored 100 runs.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
11:25 am

I think Jon Daly had a Hooter’s incident

Daslied

November 25th, 2009
11:28 am

Jeffrey d – don’t short the man. It was his magical first 34 PA. 34 PA that taught us to rethink the way the game was played. David Eckstein wears Brooks Conrad pajamas.

Thrillhouse44

November 25th, 2009
11:28 am

One day Lew will open his eyes and realize that Conrad is a poor man’s David Wright.

18 Wheels of Love

November 25th, 2009
11:30 am

John Daly is a walking Hooters incident.

What’s funny is that there is now an offical drink named after Daly. You know how a sweet tea and lemonade is called an ‘Arnold Palmer’? Well, there is a fairly new sweet tea vodka out called Firefly and they have a drink that is sweet tea vodka and lemonade called a John Daly. Immortalized!

RHR

November 25th, 2009
11:31 am

Me? I’ve always been more concerned with things like Frenchy’s ‘can’t take the hometown pressure’ incident and KJ’s ‘can’t hit the broad side of a barn’ incidents, and Greg Norton’s ‘brought in to ph with the game on the line’ incidents, and Lowe and KK’s ‘can’t pitch more than 4 innings’ incidents…..you know, stuff that effects me as a fan.

Thrillhouse44

November 25th, 2009
11:32 am

Billy Walsh, would you overlook it if Cabrera got liquored up and made fun of your obese son to his face? I love to party…love it, but you have to look at the whole picture. Sure Wells pitched a perfect game hungover, but it wasn’t a playoff game. Homeboy’s character and decision making is highly suspect.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
11:37 am

Thankful to the blog for Braves fun year ’round!

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
11:37 am

Ken Rosenthal posted a column on potential arbitration offers:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10427598/Real-offseason-intrigue-is-about-to-begin

He thinks the Braves will offer to both Soriano and Gonzo:

Rafael Soriano, right-handed reliever; Mike Gonzalez, left-handed reliever. YES.

One agent speculated that the Braves would offer Gonzalez arbitration but not Soriano, adding, “they should offer both.”

Gonzalez is coming off a lower salary — $3.45 million to Soriano’s $6.1 million — but both pitchers figure to be in demand on the open market. The Yankees and Red Sox are among the teams believed to have interest.

Thus, the Braves would appear to have little to lose by offering both arbitration. They could end up with two quality relievers on one-year deals — or as many as four high picks.

CB

November 25th, 2009
11:39 am

RHR,you are correct in that we have some people on the blog who feel the right to be the moral judges,me I live in a glass house and have enough issues of my own. I don’t really care who we get if they produce,I think Braves management is responsible to decide if a player fits the moral standards.

Scott Spezio

November 25th, 2009
11:41 am

Yeah, what happens off the field doesn’t matter a lick.

John Rocker

November 25th, 2009
11:42 am

Especially if it’s on the subway.

Tony Larussa

November 25th, 2009
11:44 am

Or when you’re trying to sleep in your car.

braveman

November 25th, 2009
11:44 am

Lew @ 9:15,

wouldnt he then fit right in with the braves? mainly chipper and bobby?

just joking around a bit on this thanksgiving eve!

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
11:57 am

Offering arb is not a true risk, even if accepted. Arb-based salaries (contracts) are NOT guaranteed. Teams can essentially just cut them with minimal damage – other than the loss of the player without compensation.

Josh Hamilton

November 25th, 2009
12:00 pm

Hey Scott Spezio, I agree.

DAP

November 25th, 2009
12:01 pm

and idiot Teams can essentially just cut them with minimal damage

actually its pretty tuff to do that. in the case of soriano and gonzo, youd have to prove you have 7 bullpen pitchers better than them. with laroche, youd have to prove you have a first baseman better than he is. you cant just cut a guy no questions asked, and not pay him.

Mark McGwire

November 25th, 2009
12:02 pm

Too many people care about what athletes do behind the scenes. OWWW, that needle pricked a bit too much.

Jose Canseco

November 25th, 2009
12:04 pm

Mark, Mark– me and you ought to right a book on our days in Oakland. Boy was that some pill poppin, needle driving good times….

DAP

November 25th, 2009
12:04 pm

but i would say that gonzo, soriano and laroche should all be offered arbitration. they wont all accept, thats for sure, and if one of them does, its not a big deal, i dont think. even though it would be ruff to have to pay soriano $9mil or whatever he might get, it would only be for one year and we are getting maybe the best reliever on the market. ditto for laroche, and we would be lucky for gonzalez to accept, which he definitely will not. i think there is very little chance any of them accepts.

cliff

November 25th, 2009
12:04 pm

“And idiot”

I am pretty sure you are on thehook for 1/6 of salary and then, ifyou don’t cut by last day of spring training, you are guaranteed on the whole (I remember it coming up with Varitek last year as a reason he supposedly did not accept arb).

For that reason, I recommend offering arb to Church and KJ.

Sammy Sosa

November 25th, 2009
12:06 pm

You know my engli?? not vady goo? but I had good ti?? in ‘98 with Mark. We shared many dru…. i mean good record setting memories.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
12:06 pm

OK, so you have to “invent” a non-budgetary excuse and file it under “Baseball Decision”. But it happens.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
12:08 pm

Wow, we’re being visited by a lot of stars today

DAP

November 25th, 2009
12:09 pm

sorry and idiot, it doesnt work that way. but id agree that it not much of a risk for the braves to offer arbitration to laroche, gonzo, and soriano.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
12:09 pm

And Wren referenced the idea recently when questioned about offering arbitration.

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
12:09 pm

i think there is very little chance any of them accepts.

I think LaRoche might accept. I think there is very little chance Soriano does, and no chance Gonzo does.

DAP

November 25th, 2009
12:14 pm

efrim I think LaRoche might accept. I think there is very little chance Soriano does, and no chance Gonzo does.

id say the same thing, but still think laroche is in the “very little chance” category, but would it really be bad if laroche accepts? that could actually be a good thing, i think. ditto if we can bring back one of our big two relievers for one years. in my opinion, it would be a bad thing if we get laorche and soriano on arbitration contracts.

pryguy

November 25th, 2009
12:15 pm

Roman Gal,

Speaking for us 20 some year olds and saying you do not remember Dye does not speak for all of us. I remember him specifically making an impact immediately with Andruw Jones. That offseason I do remember the Braves made a decision on which of the two to hold on to and which to trade for other needs. Dye was the one to go, apparently a good choice to hold on to the young 19 year old Andruw Jones.

wjones

November 25th, 2009
12:16 pm

“For that reason, I recommend offering arb to Church and KJ.”

The only thing with those two is that they are not free agents, but ARE arb-eligible. The Braves can either non-tender them, trade them, or negotiate salary with them, or sign and trade them. It’s not the same. The reasoning behind not going to arb with either of them is that the Braves might feel they can get a comparable player to fill a comparable role for much less money. Right now, Church is either a platoon possibility for the OF, or a back-up, while Kelly is pretty much a back-up/injury contingency. Combine their two salaries, and you might be able to get a pretty significant player.

pryguy

November 25th, 2009
12:17 pm

Not to mention Tucker and Keith Lockhart, which we received in return for the Dye trade were very serviceable for the Braves during their tenure albeit not quite hitters like Dye.

dpelfrey

November 25th, 2009
12:19 pm

If the Braves can clear Lowe’s salary, then it wouldn’t be the end of the world if LaRoche and Soriano have one-year arbitration figures. If they don’t clear Lowe, then Wren will be handcuffed with trying to find a decent bat.

There’s so many variables this year, everything is dependent on everything else. Should be fun next week when the chips start falling.

dpelfrey

November 25th, 2009
12:21 pm

Did someone just say Keith Lockhart was serviceable? I need to find something to break.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
12:23 pm

Ol’ Michael “Everybody hold on while I put in my eyedrops” Tucker

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
12:26 pm

Wow…I just checked the highest rated vents for the past year. Here’s the winner (by far)

Which Braves front-office genius sent a .344 hitter (Conrad) back to the minors and kept the .111 hitter (Norton)?

It had 301 votes compared to the next highest of 192

N8

November 25th, 2009
12:27 pm

“Homeboy’s character and decision making is highly suspect.” Thrillhouse44

Thrillhouse44, you stated the above about Cabrera. Let me start off by saying that unless the Tigers eat a ton of his contract (as in how much the Rockies and Marlins ate of Hampton’s or the Red Sox of Renteria’s), I don’t think he’s a match because of the money.

That being said, I thought Bobby Cox was supposed to be this incredible manager of men, that keeps that kind of crap in check? Nobody would ever disrespect Bobby and the Braves that way, would they?

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
12:28 pm

DAP & Efrim

Accepting arbitration would probably be the best way to keep LaRoche without blocking Freeman’s future. If he’s going to break away from his established history of slow starts, I think it’s more likely to happen in Atlanta at this stage in his career. Wouldn’t that be great!?!?!

dpelfrey

November 25th, 2009
12:28 pm

The problem with offering arbitration to KJ and Church is two-fold. The contract that gets settled on will certainly be higher than a typical reserve would get, and that money would be better spent elsewhere. That in turn makes it nearly impossible to trade them, unless another team thinks a potential .230 hitter is worth $5 million (just guessing on KJ’s figure). Remember Marcus Giles a few years back, same situation. They ended up non-tendering him. I don’t see how they can risk it this time, unless they whiff on adding another outfielder and need KJ or Church as a fall-back.

Soph

November 25th, 2009
12:39 pm

Which Braves front-office genius sent a .344 hitter (Conrad) back to the minors and kept the .111 hitter (Norton)?

It had 301 votes compared to the next highest of 192

I thought vents were supposed to be somewhat funny?

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
12:46 pm

that could actually be a good thing, i think

I agree, there really isn’t any risk in him accepting. If all three were to accept, then we’d be paying Laroche around 9-10, Soriano 8-9 and Gonzo 5-6. But like I said, I don’t expect the two relievers to accept.

Billy Walsh

November 25th, 2009
12:54 pm

Thrillhouse,

I agree that Cabrera has many off the field issues. You cant control what players do off the field (some hide it better than others). If the internet was around in Ty Cobb’s day..would he be unemployed? Although Cabrera partied hard before the Twins game..he still went 2 for 5. Although the braves would never take on that salary..I think he would be ok in the braves clubhouse (in my opinion of course.

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
1:04 pm

It’s not too surprising that you don’t remember him, that’s the only season he had with Atlanta. nolie

That’s funny because one of the only things I actuallyknow about Dye is how fragile he is/was.

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
1:05 pm

dye was also part of one of the most pivotal plays in the 96 world series. got screened out by the right field umpire. uga-brave

Care to enlighten those of us who have no idea what happened?

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
1:05 pm

Oh look. A new member of the KJ club. RHR

New members are always welcome.

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
1:06 pm

Wow…the blog just told me that I was posting comments too quickly and to slow down…with an exclamation point! I didn’t know it did that.

TDub

November 25th, 2009
1:09 pm

Orioles need some veteran SP – what about a Lowe/Luke Scott swap? Granted Scott’s a lefty, but his power is good, average ok, and OBP is fair. Also saw that the Red Sox were looking for starting pitching and considering Kelvin Escobar – I’d want Lowe a hell of a lot more than I’d want Escobar, but who would we get in return from them in a trade like that?

Bill M.

November 25th, 2009
1:10 pm

Anyone for Shelley Duncan to play first !!!! Yanks cut him loose. Might be a cheap way to go.

Lew

November 25th, 2009
1:11 pm

jeffrey d-Yeah, I figured you weren’t overly serious. I just have this fear of a bench like the old ones with Pete Orr, Keith Lockhart and Willie Harris.

I realize that Prado has earned the full time job and Diaz at least a platoon role in the outfield, but a bench of Diaz, Prado and Infante sure was a high point of the last couple of years.

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
1:13 pm

Speaking for us 20 some year olds and saying you do not remember Dye does not speak for all of us. pryguy

Ok, I made a hasty generalization. But I didn’t say that no 20 year olds anywhere remembered him. In fact, probably a good majority of 20 y/o here on this blog remember him…as was seemingly proven here last night.

DAP

November 25th, 2009
1:22 pm

Anyone for Shelley Duncan to play first !!!! Yanks cut him loose. Might be a cheap way to go.

what the…? you cant be serious.

beekay

November 25th, 2009
1:24 pm

We will get Ryan Ludwick for D-Lowe, Schafer, and Medlen

O.J.

November 25th, 2009
1:27 pm

beekay, that is just dumb.

Daslied

November 25th, 2009
1:28 pm

Beekay – no thanks on that one.

Lew

November 25th, 2009
1:31 pm

beekay-anyone who would trade Lowe, Medlen and Schafer for Ludwick is a completely clueless individual. What on the face of the earth makes you think that is a vaguely equitable deal for the Braves-even as a salary dump?

richbrave

November 25th, 2009
1:33 pm

Enter your comments here

richbrave

November 25th, 2009
1:34 pm

Hey, LEW. I’ll be up your way next summer with my bride. See you then. Don’t get snowed in up there.

Lew

November 25th, 2009
1:38 pm

richbrave-ONly snowed once so far this year and it was gone by noon. Snow due on Saturday, though and then the cold starts again. Got a full tank of petrified dinos ready to burn.

Chris

November 25th, 2009
1:39 pm

beekay- braves are trading lowe for a prospect or two. and schafer will be traded for part of a deal for a bat.

beekay

November 25th, 2009
1:41 pm

We dump 15 mill and give up a guy who has a ceiling of maybe a #4 starter and a prospect who hasn’t done crap but get injured since his steroid bust. We would have a young outfield for very few dollars, Heyward will be making minimum, Nate is making small money and Ludwick makes under 4 mill. Ludwick bats right knocked in more runs and hit as many HR’s as any of our current players. We can take the 15 mill from Lowe and get a closer and sign Roachie to a 2 year deal

klaus

November 25th, 2009
1:42 pm

You do realize Olney comments changed daily. :)

I believe Adrian will be hard to land but the Sox are looking at pitching and hoping to sign a cheaper Bay versus Holliday.

They are interested in Halladay big time. Holliday likely but not as much.

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
1:46 pm

We will get Ryan Ludwick for D-Lowe, Schafer, and Medlen

Wow.

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
1:50 pm

How would Ludwick make our outfield young? He’ll turn 31 next year. That isn’t young in baseball.

ugaaccountant

November 25th, 2009
1:51 pm

Beekay – Why do we have to give up Medlen in that trade? He’s just as valuable as the other pieces and you didn’t even mention him. He is not available as a throw in and neither is Schafer. If they are traded it will be for a good player.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
1:52 pm

beekay

Even after reading your explanation, I don’t understand why you feel it necessary to toss Medlin into the deal. IF the team wanted to make that deal (and I wouldn’t), Lowe and Schafer should be enough, because I’m not buying your Schafer evaluation at least until after his wrist heals and he plays some games.

beekay

November 25th, 2009
1:52 pm

Ludwick hit 22 hrs and drove in 100 despite missing 30 games. We could lock him up to a nice deal long term…Medlen is our 6th or 7th inning reliever and Schafer is our 5th best outfielder…DLowes contract clears 45 million and we get back a power hitting corner outfielder

beekay

November 25th, 2009
1:55 pm

Ludwick is younger than the scrubs that are being mentioned. We can get 5 solid years out of him. He is not Loaf,or Dye, or doesn’t strike out 165 times like Cameron. You need to give up pieces for good players. Lowes contract will be difficult to move in todays economy so you need to give up something.

Andy K.

November 25th, 2009
1:57 pm

I say we give Shelley Duncan a Minor League contract with an invite to Spring Training.

O.J.

November 25th, 2009
1:57 pm

beekay is dumb, plain and simple

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
1:59 pm

He is not Loaf,or Dye, or doesn’t strike out 165 times like Cameron.

So Ludwick alone, is more valuable than Lowe, Cameron, Schafer and Medlen.

Awesome logic.

beekay

November 25th, 2009
2:03 pm

I said he is better than dumping money for Mr. K who struck out 165 times and wants 10 mill. If Medlen is so great what role is he going to play for us next year OJ??? Do you really think Schafer will see the playing field next year? Do you realize how much we can use Lowes 15 million for 1b and closer….

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
2:03 pm

beekay

November 25th, 2009
2:05 pm

We can basically get Ludwick, Laroche and a closer for Lowe and 2 guys that aren’t major contributors next year because we can use that money saved from the DLowe contract

wayn-o

November 25th, 2009
2:07 pm

3 way trade: Lowe to Brewers. Cabera to Braves. Prospects to Tigers from Brewers.

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
2:08 pm

Do you really think Schafer will see the playing field next year?

Yes, I do. He might’ve had a bad year for Atlanta and missed a good portion of the year, but he’s still young and has all the tools. He’ll probably start the year in AAA, but as soon as the opportunity presents itself, I’m sure he’ll be in Atlanta. I have no doubt about it.

ugaaccountant

November 25th, 2009
2:08 pm

We can get Laroche, a closer, and a similar player to Ludwick without trading anyone. That’s already in our budget without dumping Lowe/Schafer/Medlen. If we trade any of them it will be to get someone better than Mike Cameron/Jermaine Dye level.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
2:09 pm

beekay

Other than saying he has no role or value to the Braves, you still give no real reason to put Medlin in your proposal. His role would be similar to ‘09, as a long reliever and spot starter and insurance against injury to starter.

Yes, Schafer (if he’s not traded) will see the field, probably starting in AAA, but moving up when his play or a major league need (injury) dictates. I feel confident that most of his mlb problem was wrist-related.

Marc in FL

November 25th, 2009
2:13 pm

Why do I have the feeling our bullpen is going to make 2010 very hard to watch?

beekay

November 25th, 2009
2:14 pm

I don’t see Schafer as much more than a 4th outfielder next year. I’ll bet we trade for a corner fielder and have Matty, Nate, and eventually Heyward.Heck maybe we try to resign Church if no one offers him. Shafer will be our Blanco at best. Medlen will be pitching in blow outs next year if we keep him and maybe get a spot start ot two. But hey if you guys want to throw 8-10 mill at Cameron or give money to Dye aka Loaf Jr. so be it

beekay

November 25th, 2009
2:15 pm

ugaaccountant
What similar player to Ludwick are we going to get without Lowes money or without trading prospects??

DAP

November 25th, 2009
2:21 pm

Beekay What similar player to Ludwick are we going to get without Lowes money or without trading prospects?

if he repeats his 2009 performance, we could have dye, cameron, byrd, thames could probably match those numbers, damon, and nady.

DAP

November 25th, 2009
2:22 pm

i like ludwick, i would trade for him, but lets not go crazy here.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
2:24 pm

beekay

Look at it this way. The only reason the Cards would insist on both Medlin and Schafer in such a deal is if they valued them the same as you do. In that case, they would either nix the deal or ask for someone else.

And where do you get the idea that if we (and the Braves) don’t buy into your proposed trade, that the ONLY other options would be to pay way too much for way too little. There are literally hundreds of ways to go. Honestly, the final answer will probably be something that few, if any, saw coming.

After all, Wren is playing things a LOT closer to the vest this year.

ugaaccountant

November 25th, 2009
2:29 pm

Cameron, Dye or Ludwick. Any of them are about the same in my opinion.

I think Josh Willingham’s slightly better so if we were to trade, he’d be more interesting to me.

Jeff R

November 25th, 2009
2:32 pm

Efrim… Braves should offer all three arbitration. I think the chances are remote that Soriano and Gonzo don’t receive attractive multiyear offers. I still wonder if LaRoche will get an attractive offer, though. If not, he might bite on arbitration and wait out the market another year. But I don’t believe that hurts the Braves at all. In fact, I think it would be a boost to have LaRoche at 1st in 2010.

dpelfrey

November 25th, 2009
2:37 pm

Hey, don’t trash the idea of Shelley Duncan too hard. His career path looks a lot like Ludwick’s. Not saying he’s going to bust out with 37 homers and 114 RBI, but the guy can hit. I wouldn’t guarantee him a contract though. I’m sure someone will.

beekay

November 25th, 2009
2:41 pm

Since no one liked that proposal what if it was Lowe, Schafer and JoJo. I really hope we don’t get a broken down Dye or a guy who strikes out more than anyone in the majors other than Reynolds who wants 10 mill. Remember Ludwick drove in 100 even though he missed 30 games, he is much better than paying twice as much for any of the geezers! You think Cameron will sign for under 4 mill?

Bobby

November 25th, 2009
2:48 pm

beekay-Cameron for one!

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
2:49 pm

What similar player to Ludwick are we going to get without Lowes money or without trading prospects??

Mike Cameron.

O.J.

November 25th, 2009
2:51 pm

beekay, why the hell would the Cardinals want Derek Lowe and his 15 million dollar salary and a few prospects for Ryan Ludwick? Either you are valuing Ludwick too high or you are just not taking into consideration of Lowe’s salary. I say you could get Ludwick for Schafer and a guy like Minor, heck maybe not even that good, like Diamond or Rohrbaugh.

Stop throwing Lowe into the deal. They wouldnt take on all that money for just Ryan Ludwick, sheesh.

Jeff R

November 25th, 2009
2:51 pm

I think the market for Lowe will improve as the winter progresses. As we all know, there’s not a wealth of solid starting pitchers who’ll go the free agent route. I believe as teams really begin looking very closely at rounding out rotations, Lowe becomes attractive.

But I’m not confident the return for Lowe would be what most of us would want: a younger righty power bat. To move Lowe’s contract off the books (and to retain Vazquez), I’d take a couple of solid high minors prospects in return.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
2:52 pm

beekay

I never said I don’t like the idea of Ludwig, just asked (and never got a real answer) why you think it has to be so expensive in terms of talent given up, and why you think that NOT making your deal MUST mean “paying twice as much for any of the geezers!”

macd

November 25th, 2009
2:53 pm

DOB,
Being a lifelong resident of Eastern NC, I can say without a doubt that the best barbecue places in ENC are Bill’s,Wilbers (Goldsboro), Skylight(Ayden), and B’s in Greenville. I’ve had Parkers and would probably rate it behind those listed above.

O.J.

November 25th, 2009
2:53 pm

Jeff R, not if the goal is just to rid yourself of the salary constraints that his contract presents. Say if you can trade Lowe for a couple of AA prospects and the other team takes on all his salary, thats enough for me I think.

O.J.

November 25th, 2009
2:55 pm

Cause that gives you the money to possibly go out and get a Mike Cameron, Billy Wagner and Sign Vazquez to an extension.

Jeff R

November 25th, 2009
2:56 pm

Braves aren’t swapping Minor, at least not in a Ludwick deal. Right now, the Braves are projecting him a #3 starter by 2011, as I recall. Hanson, Jurrjens, Minor and, perhaps, Vazquez make for a strong starting rotation.

macd

November 25th, 2009
2:57 pm

In fact DOB, I would probably add Ken’s Grill in LaGrange to the list above in front of Parkers. Problem with Ken’s like B’s is Ken’s only cooks it on Wednesday’s and Saturday’s and like B’s serves until it’s gone.
Both B’s and the Skylight have been on national tv and are considered must stops for most politicians locally and nationally.

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
2:57 pm

beekay – I like trading JoJo a lot more than Medlin, who I believe will eventually be a middle of rotation starter. I think Schafer is worth a lot more than you think. At the least, I would see what he can do WITH a good wrist.

Efrim

November 25th, 2009
2:58 pm

Eric (Green Bay, WI)

Jim, did Gamel slip in the eyes of scouts this year or did Lawrie just show enough to move up? What do you think the Brewers will do with Gamel?

Jim Callis (2:04 PM)

A little of each. I think Lawrie can be every bit the hitter that we thought Gamel would be, if not more, and while Lawrie won’t be a Gold Glover, he’s a better defender. I think the Brewers would move Gamel in the right deal. He can’t play third base, and they think Casey McGehee may be the answer there anyway.

beekay

November 25th, 2009
2:58 pm

OJ
The Cards will lose Pinero they need a horse that can give them the innings thea Lowe can give…..Bobby, Efrim, how much are you going to give Mr. K? I heard he is looking at 2 yrs 15 mill or one year 8 or so? I’d rather give that money to Laroche and have the left over cash go to a closer….I don’t see this as a horrible trade and at least it’s more realistic than the morons who make up stuff like JoJo, B-Jones and Diaz for Fielder

Jeff R

November 25th, 2009
2:58 pm

O.J. I could live with that scenario.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
3:01 pm

Minor cannot be traded this off-season. He was taken in the most recent draft, making him ineligible for a trade until sometime later. I forget exactly when he’d be eligible, but I’m sure somebody on here knows! Guys and gals?

Jeff R

November 25th, 2009
3:04 pm

And Idiot… I didn’t nkow that. Good point. I just think Wren would trade Minor now, even if he could. Again, I believe he’s projected for the rotation later in 2010 or at the srtart of the 2011 season. I think management likes Minor a lot and have him on a fast track.

Eric B

November 25th, 2009
3:04 pm

Hey I grew up eating Parker’s in Greenville, NC too lol. But since it changed hands it’s not quite as good as it was in the 80’s imo. On the other hand the Wilson Parker’s is till awesome and Bill’s is pretty good also. My family and I reside in Tarboro,NC now but still frequent the both the Wilson establishments you referenced. Enjoy your Holidays up here in Carolina…and Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Braves fans.

Jeff R

November 25th, 2009
3:05 pm

Typed way too fast. Wren wouldN’T trade Minor now…

beekay

November 25th, 2009
3:06 pm

I hope Schafer does become a starter if he stays, but curious to how his post juice #’s will come out. I just think to get a guy like Ludwick(made 3.7 mill) who would have finished with about 26-28 hrs and 120 rbis had he not gotten injured you got to give up more than the Jo-Jo’s and Brandon Jones of the world

beekay

November 25th, 2009
3:07 pm

I wouldn’t trade Minor. I think he will be in our rotation in 2011 and is a better prospect than Medlen.

Chris

November 25th, 2009
3:11 pm

white sox signs andrew jones for $500K

O.J.

November 25th, 2009
3:11 pm

beekay, I dont even know what you are saying anymore. Its like, at first, you are talking about trading Lowe, Medlin and Schafer for Ludwick, which makes no sense for both sides, then its Lowe, Jo Jo, and Schafer, AGAIN for Ludwick, and it still makes no sense, then you say “I just think to get a guy like Ludwick(made 3.7 mill) who would have finished with about 26-28 hrs and 120 rbis had he not gotten injured you got to give up more than the Jo-Jo’s and Brandon Jones of the world.”

Which is true, we never said we wouldnt want Ludwick, but the Cardinals are not giving him up AND taking on Lowe’s salary. That just makes no sense to the Cards at all.

What would have made sense is if you said, the Braves trade Lowe and pay 10.5 million of his total contract for just Ludwick, then the Cards might actually do that.

Bluestreak

November 25th, 2009
3:14 pm

Good, now all the ‘let’s bring back AJ talk’ can stop early. Thankfully hasn’t been too much of that this year, but watching him play now is just painful.

Mike

November 25th, 2009
3:17 pm

White Sox sign Andruw Jones!!

just the facts

November 25th, 2009
3:19 pm

I hope Schafer does become a starter if he stays, but curious to how his post juice #’s will come out.

From Gordon Edes of Yahoo Sports last March 28:

The circumstances of Schafer’s suspension remain hazy. He was punished after a probe by MLB’s newly formed Department of Investigations, which reportedly suspected him of using HGH through anecdotal evidence. No tangible evidence existed. Had he been a Major Leaguer, the Players Association would have fought it and probably won.

Schafer was adamant that he had never used HGH or steroids. He said in an interview that his initial inclination was to fight it, but decided he’d get a more sympathetic hearing if he accepted responsibility.

One source familiar with the case said that Schafer may have been unwilling to implicate another person close to him.

Shawn

November 25th, 2009
3:19 pm

MLBTR is reporting that the Chicago White Sox have just signed FA Andruw Jones for half a mil!

brian

November 25th, 2009
3:21 pm

Andruw Jones has been signed by the White Sox! Wren could’ve had the former star for $500,000.

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
3:21 pm

macd – I pretty much agree, although I think Wilbers has gone down some. I would add Mccalls, which also has great Calabash style seafood. That said, Parkers is still damn good, and I would gladly eat there anytime.
BTW DOB, Little Eva (of Locomotion fame) worked the last years of her life at the Skylight, and died poor.

dogsbrekky

November 25th, 2009
3:22 pm

Who are the White Sox if nothing more than an introduction to those great pizza parlors and pancake houses in Streeterville

Andy will be 325lbs before he gets outta there

Once he finds Lou Malnatis and Due, he is a goner

JuicyJuice

November 25th, 2009
3:23 pm

Andruw Jones is a Chicago White Sock!!!! Unbelievable!! Where did this come from??

HarryTheBrave

November 25th, 2009
3:24 pm

Don’t know if it’s been said here but Andruw Jones has been signed by the White Sox for $500K!!!!

stynes

November 25th, 2009
3:24 pm

For those interested in espn.com insider content but don’t want to pay the $40/year fee…

Amazon.com has a special right now: a 1 year subscription to ESPN The Magazine for $5. According to the espn.com website, a magazine subscription gives you free espn.com insider access. I can’t confirm that this works but it appears that it should and there’s nothing I read in the fine print that states otherwise. I just placed my order, I figure it’s worth the $5. And no, I make no money off this but I’ll gladly accept any donations you want to throw my way. :)

Here’s the link to purchase from Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00007AX0N

Here’s the link from ESPN.com explaining that magazine subscriptions get insider access:
https://r.espn.go.com/espn/insider/renewtoinsider

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
3:26 pm

Great news about AJ and the Sox!!!

Now, beekay can trade Lowe, Schafer, Medlin & JoJo for him since he’s signed for a LOT less than Ludwig! Sorry, beekay. I couldn’t resist!

O.J.

November 25th, 2009
3:26 pm

Wow, hey everyone, in case you havent heard, Andruw is a White Sox now!!!!! LOL

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
3:26 pm

jeffrey d-Yeah, I figured you weren’t overly serious. I just have this fear of a bench like the old ones with Pete Orr, Keith Lockhart and Willie Harris. Lew

Don’t forget Langerhans!

Steve from OH

November 25th, 2009
3:26 pm

Wren couldn’t trade Minor this offseason even if he wanted too. Can’t trade him (and all of the ‘09 draftees) until after the 2010 draft.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
3:27 pm

white sox signs andrew jones for $500K

I can see at least 3 things wrong with that sentence.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 25th, 2009
3:29 pm

Andruw Jones has been signed by the White Sox! Wren could’ve had the former star for $500,000.

FORMER star is the key word in that sentence. What good would signing Andruw for $500,000 have done? He fills NO whole, unless your suggesting he would be the outfield bat the Braves are looking for? Please for goodness sake don’t suggest that.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
3:30 pm

There’s a great little BBQ place in my hometown in Alabama. They only open for lunch, and if you’re not there by 12:15 everything is gone. Everyone’s tried to get them to move to a larger place so they can cook more food, but they’re happy with what they’re doing. It’s called Hobo’s, because it’s next to the railroad trax.

18 Wheels of Love

November 25th, 2009
3:31 pm

Hey Stynes, thanks for the heads up on the ESPN deal. I’m gonna give it a shot for the Insider stuff.

Bluestreak

November 25th, 2009
3:40 pm

Jeff D: White Sox sign Andrew Jones for $500K

Did I get the things you found? (am I really this board that I am correcting grammar on a blog…sheesh)

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
3:42 pm

(am I really this board that I am correcting grammar on a blog…sheesh)

So the other day my friend asked me what the definition of “irony” was :lol:

Anyway, subject verb agreement is mistake one, Andruw spelled Andrew is mistake two, and why anyone would want Andruw Jones is mistake three.

McFann O

November 25th, 2009
3:44 pm

Bluestreak White Sox sign Andrew Jones for $500K

Did I get the things you found?

It’s still missing punctuation…

raleighbravefan

November 25th, 2009
3:50 pm

Bluestreak – it’s BORED not BOARD

keylargo

November 25th, 2009
3:54 pm

“Jeff D: White Sox sign Andrew Jones for $500K”

Did I get the things you found? (am I really this board that I am correcting grammar on a blog…sheesh) Bluestreak

BS – some one is going to hit you in the head with a “bored” if you don’t learn how to spell Andruw.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
3:56 pm

Maybe he really is a board.

jeffrey d

November 25th, 2009
3:56 pm

What if he’s that Operation guy??

McPoyle

November 25th, 2009
4:05 pm

I swear Kenny Williams will sign anybody. I’s like he just signs players just to sign them… with no rhyme or reason. The Chi Sox have to have made more transactions over the past 3 years than any other team in baseball. Their teams have consisted of guys who can hit the longball and nothing else, and Andruw fits that mold perfectly, he is the prototypical Kenny Williams’ sign. Getting players on the downsloap of their career seems to be another Kenny trend… if Chipper gets hurt this season, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kenny go after him like he went after Peavy last season.

itcouldbeworse

November 25th, 2009
4:05 pm

anyone else find it funny that for 20 min on this blog everyone posted the same thing about the jones signing….come on guys read the comments befor you post :-)

Tommy T

November 25th, 2009
4:09 pm

Kind of ironic that Kenny Williams b!tches about Bobby Jenks being fat and then signs Andruw Jones.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
4:10 pm

Is Andruw still getting money from the Dodgers in ‘10? I quit paying attention to him a good while back.

Patrick

November 25th, 2009
4:15 pm

So…super agent Scott Boras has done an excellent job with Andruw. Convinced him to the leave the Braves…then he gets cut by the Dodgers and now can barely find a job and Boras could care less about him,let’s him sign for a measily 500K but free agency really even starts. Gotta love a guy like that to be your agent.

nolie

November 25th, 2009
4:24 pm

Obviously Bobby Cox is under contract for the 2010 season. But this does not mean that they could not buy out his contract and him be replaced. Don

how f’ing obsessively stupid can one jaskass be? Sure they are gonna renew him and then turn around and buy it out. No wonder your posts are so damned stupid if that is the level of intelligence that you have to deal with.

nolie

November 25th, 2009
4:31 pm

Not to mention Canizares Lew

you really think Canny is gonna make the big team? Or did I miss some sarcasm?
That would be a surprise to me if he did. :)

Bluestreak

November 25th, 2009
4:38 pm

Ah!!

Yeah, Andruw not Andrew…and bored not board. I’m not even going after the whole punctuation issue.

Guess it pays not to be splitting my time between work and this blog…

Think I’ll quit working… :)

nolie

November 25th, 2009
4:40 pm

Offering arb is not a true risk, even if accepted. Arb-based salaries (contracts) are NOT guaranteed. Teams can essentially just cut them with minimal damage – other than the loss of the player without compensation And Idiot

appropriate name dude j/k
doesn’t really work like that, no way the Braves can prove they have a bullpen full of pitchers better than either of those guys. you almost never see that occur

stynes

November 25th, 2009
4:57 pm

No problem, 18 Wheels of Love. I saw a good deal and figured some of my fellow Braves baseball, BBQ, MIB blog denizens may appreciate the deal as well. After placing my own order and reading through the comments it appears that a number of folks ordered for the exact same reason – $5 for a year of ESPN Insider as opposed to $6.95/month.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
5:23 pm

nolie

You don’t have to prove that everybody in your bullpen is better. The decision to cut someone just has to be a “baseball” decision rather than a “financial” decision. And that’s not that big of a stretch. It happens. You don’t have to be And Idiot to understand it, although it helps!

And Wren said essentially the same thing I said when asked (by Bowman, if I’m not mistaken) if the team might “risk” offering arbitration to the three guys in question – Gonzo, LaRoche, and Rafy.

Il Cattivo

November 25th, 2009
5:33 pm

Are the Red Sox not interested in anyone?
All you read about is Red Sox this Red Sox that. The Yankees may actually better now.

nolie

November 25th, 2009
5:37 pm

You don’t have to prove that everybody in your bullpen is better. The decision to cut someone just has to be a “baseball” decision rather than a “financial” decision. and idiot

what do you think “baseball decision” means dude? The union would fight tooth and nail if you could not prove he was less than other players. You need a reason that you can prove to the union. It happens very seldom, but since you are so sure it’s a regular occurrence when don’t you list the last half dozen or so times it has happened? Shouldn’t have to go back too long to find them if you are right.

Lew

November 25th, 2009
5:50 pm

nolie-someone else mentioned Canizares as part of our 2010 bench. I was pointing out basically what you said-why would he even be on the team..

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
5:58 pm

nolie – “what do you think “baseball decision” means dude? The union would fight tooth and nail if you could not prove he was less than other players.”

“Baseball decision” means one that is not blatantly and strictly a “financial” decision. And it’s the union that has to “prove” that it wasn’t the former, not the other way around.

“since you are so sure it’s a regular occurrence”

When did I say it’s a “regular” occurrence??? I said, “It happens,” If you think those phrases mean the same thing, I can’t help you.

In the meantime, I’ll defer to the guy that “told me” that the risk of offering arbitration is lessened by the fact that arbitration contracts are not guaranteed. (Wish I could find a link for you – I’ve tried and will continue, but it has been about a month since I read it.) The guy’s name was Frank Wren and he was answering a question about the risk of offering arbitration to Gonzalez, Soriano, and LaRoche. Kind of “on point.”

Bay Area Steve

November 25th, 2009
6:01 pm

stynes,

I can’t believe you, sir. One of our very own online rutters posted that same subscription for 25% less. How dare you try to rip off the good denizens here. I mean, 25% equates to 100 cents. And, in this economy, at Christmas time, no less. The gall. Think if the money lost if they ordered three years? Holy Cornelia.

You should be banned.

Moby Grape

November 25th, 2009
6:02 pm

If you think that the Braves could sign LaRoche for instance to an $8,000,000 contract and then cut him in spring training with no other regular first baseman on the team and convince MLB and the union that it was a baseball decision, then you indeed have aptly named yourself sir.

Wayne in Utah

November 25th, 2009
6:07 pm

I bet Ozzie is going to LOVE Andruw!

Jeff R

November 25th, 2009
6:11 pm

Andruw Jones: gypsy ballplayer… who would have thunk it 4 or 5 years ago?

Why on earth would Wren bring Andruw back? The Braves had him, for the most part, when he was really good. Now, he’s just a page or two in the Braves’ history book. That’s where he should stay.

Moby Grape

November 25th, 2009
6:12 pm

I bet Ozzie is going to LOVE Andruw Wayne

now that is a funny thought.

Bobby's Cox

November 25th, 2009
6:16 pm

So…super agent Scott Boras has done an excellent job with Andruw. Convinced him to the leave the Braves… Patrick

Boras didn’t convince Andruw to leave the Braves. I believe what happened was that the Braves called Andruw into their office after his last season with them, and told him they would NOT be signing him and bringing him back. It’s more like the Braves left Andruw, and for good reason.

I remember my Dodger fan friends getting all excited over the signing, bragging, et al like they did when LA stole Furcal from us (the 1st time). I told them we didn’t want him back and why. It was pretty obvious if you watched AJ play everyday. Looks like I got the last laugh on that one.

Boras has done a good job with Andruw. He got him a huge contract w/ LA when it was apparent Andruw had issues, then got him a mediocre contact (while still being paid by LA), with a powerhouse hitting team, ballpark, and hitting coach in Texas to try and turn his career around. Andruw signing before the arbitration deadline is not a big deal. In fact, I think it was a smart move. Adruw is in a big city with a big market team who is cutting payroll – a team that just got rid of a slow Jermaine Dye with sever diminishing skills and defensive issues. And, I might add, a team who has a former AJ teammate as their manager. Boras once again put Andruw in a good situation, and before the market got more convoluted by the Dec.1 arb decisions, winter meetings in early Dec, etc..

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
6:18 pm

Shafer will be our Blanco at best. beekay

[sigh] How can you possibly think that?

Moe Berg

November 25th, 2009
6:22 pm

“I bet Ozzie is going to LOVE Andruw!”

Does anyone remember how they got along when they both played together in Atlanta?

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
6:23 pm

One of our very own online rutters posted that same subscription for 25% less. BAS

The nerve of the non-rutters. Always tryin’ to rip folks off…

Jim

November 25th, 2009
6:32 pm

For Thanksgiving, we should all remember Kenny Williams who now has saved us all a few hours of Hot Stove reading by taking Andruw out of circulation.

Until Braves trade either Lowe or Vasquez, the calculus of what they might do is just too speculative. In the meantime, given interest in Soriano and Gonzales, they should offer both arbitration. As for LaRoche, they probably should do the same even though he’s only a “B,” and so just a between round pick if he goes elsewhere. Point is, though that LaRoche seems to have a special quality when he plays for Braves. We just don’t know – and shouldn’t – whether Braves think they can get another 1B, or another Gonzales, or what. I’m still not convinced Freeman will be ready in ‘11, so if we gave LaRoche, or someone else a three-year deal, that would not be end of world. Anyone recall what sort of contract A.Dunn has? How many more years?

BravesFanForever

November 25th, 2009
6:33 pm

I’m a little late into this since it was yesterday, but I’m trying to catch up… Maybe I can give DOB some lessons on how to tell a joke…

Here is how you do it…

You say, “The Braves have acquired Abreu”, NOT “The Braves have acquired Bobby Abreu.” Why, because the second statement is an outright lie. The first statement is actually true even though it could be misleading especially if you put an exclamation point at the end. But it would be funny to see the comments that erupt. “What do you mean, Bobby Abreu!!??”

Then after about 5-10 minutes you announce that the Braves have actually acquired Juan Abreu. Then say, “What? I never said anything about Bobby.” Hah hah, everyone has a little laugh about it.

Next time you want to tell a joke DOB, be sure to discuss it with me. Apparently you don’t understand joking 101.

Your lie about Bobby wasn’t very funny…

Moby Grape

November 25th, 2009
6:39 pm

How can you possibly think that? RG

many of the opinions expressed here are… puzzling (being polite)

beekay

November 25th, 2009
6:46 pm

Shafer would be a defensive repladcement and pinch runner at best next year. We will get a power bat and have Mcclouth and Diaz as the starters until Heyward comes up. That makes him the 5th outfielder at best if we don’t resign churchie…so yes I see him a s a Blanco at best next year IF he makes the teAM

beekay

November 25th, 2009
6:46 pm

Shafer would be a defensive replacement and pinch runner at best next year. We will get a power bat and have Mcclouth and Diaz as the starters until Heyward comes up. That makes him the 5th outfielder at best if we don’t resign churchie…so yes I see him a s a Blanco at best next year IF he makes the teAM

nolie

November 25th, 2009
7:13 pm

When did I say it’s a “regular” occurrence??? I said, “It happens,” If you think those phrases mean the same thing, I can’t help you And Idiot

snarkiness aside, when you say ‘it happens’ you obviously are implying that it occurs often enough to justify what you are saying. The feeling that you are conveying is that it is as easy as you say it is, but if it doesn’t happen regularly-which it doesn’t, actually very seldom-then your implication is purposely misleading
Basic communication, so you can shove that particular crap where the sun don’t shine sweetie.and if you can’t understand that, I might not be able to help you, but I’ll be glad to give you a demonstration. :)

David O'Brien

November 25th, 2009
7:54 pm

Hope everyone who wants to be is home with family and ready to have a great Thanksgiving. We’re thankful for all of you and for baseball (preferably without ‘roids or growth hormone, if that’s still an option).

Just drove from Atlanta, made it in under 7 hrs despite a few traffic snarls and constant dread of being pulled over by countless cops along the way….

Anyway, BBQ:

While I still prefer the Eastern N.C.-style hog (chopped pork with clear vinegar sauce, no tomato), I give a a full recommendation for Smiley’s BBQ in Lexington, N.C., purveyors of the “Western N.C.” aka Lexington-style pork Q, with some tomato in the vinegar sauce. Ate there at lunch today on the drive up to Wilson, N.C., and it was freakin’ outstanding. Had the sandwich they do best, from what I’m told — the coarse chopped pork. With some mighty fine hushpuppies and creamy mac & cheese side dish. Add a tall glass of sweet tea done just right — where the first sip reminds you of eating waffles with syrup — and you got yourselves a first-class meal for about $7.

Next up, my old standby, Parker’s here in Wilson. Gotta get through turkey day eating the traditional bird and fixings, but after that it’s Q Friday and Saturday and taking home a pound of the stuff when we drive Sunday.

By the away, I’ve literally never seen as many troopers pulling over speeders as I saw today in all three states — Georgia., S.C. and N.C. We counted between 20 and 25 (lost track somewhere near Durham).

Steve from OH

November 25th, 2009
8:04 pm

A very happy Thanksgiving to you, DOB, and thanks for all you do for us. And a happy Thanksgiving for all you bloggers out there; hope you spend it eating some good grub with the family.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
8:04 pm

Moby Grape

“If you think that the Braves could sign LaRoche for instance to an $8,000,000 contract and then cut him in spring training with no other regular first baseman on the team and convince MLB and the union that it was a baseball decision, then you indeed have aptly named yourself sir”

I didn’t say that. I didn’t think it. I didn’t even insinuate that. nolie insinuated that I did. A lot of assuming going on here. Such as:

“snarkiness aside, when you say ‘it happens’ you obviously are implying that it occurs often enough to justify what you are saying. The feeling that you are conveying is that it is as easy as you say it is, but if it doesn’t happen regularly-which it doesn’t, actually very seldom-then your implication is purposely misleading” nolie

No, it isn’t obvious unless you are assuming something that was neither said nor implied. I never said it was “easy,” either. I simply said that ‘it happens,’ which implies only that it has happened before and it will probably happen again.

Purposely misleading? Maybe I didn’t explain every detail of my supposed dastardly plan to screw over some hapless ballplayer, but rather figured you all to be smart enough to understand simple English (and the rules of major league baseball) enough that I didn’t need to.

Nor did I succumb to the childish temptation to call you “and idiot,” nor did I feel the desire to place something in an unnatural part of your anatomy. Well, maybe I thought it, but I didn’t say it like you did. Must be some obscure symbol of manhood to publicly lambaste and insult someone for saying something you didn’t agree with. Not sure what to call doing the same over something they never actually said just because you ass/u/me/d something else was was meant by what they DID say when it wasn’t. :0

bravesfaninmetsland

November 25th, 2009
8:08 pm

happy Thanksgiving to you DOB and all the denizens on here. The off season is much more enjoyable with this blog around. Enjoy the holiday and the pulled pork!!

GboroBravo

November 25th, 2009
8:19 pm

DOB have you ever had Carter brothers in High Point? Very good and its eastern style.

P. W. Hjort

November 25th, 2009
8:26 pm

Forgot who recommended the Phish Exile on Main St. show, but I just got it.

MDBraves

November 25th, 2009
8:28 pm

Just think about how the Braves acquired Soriano. For Horacio Ramirez. Trade Lowe to a team who has given up on a young reliever. If a player the caliber of Soriano can be acquired for Horacio Ramirez (who was arbitration eligible) then im sure it can done with Lowe. If you have to, maybe pay about 4 million of Lowe’s contract to make the deal “sweeter.” If you acquire a young reliever making say $400,000 then that all only costs you $4.4 million. The same price as a middle of the road, middle aged reliever.

Jeff R

November 25th, 2009
8:29 pm

DOB, Enjoy turkey day!

Cameron B

November 25th, 2009
8:37 pm

DOB
You actually liked Smiley’s?
I’ve never been a fan (never had strong enough dip any time I’ve ever gone).
Speedy’s, right up the road from Smiley’s, would’ve be my recommendation in Lexington (even over the venerable Lexington BBQ owned by the Monks…which I think is terrible when you consider quality, price, and the crowd…and the BBQ Center).
But, above all places in the BBQ Capital of the World, I like the sweeter dips offered by places like Tommy’s in Thomasville and Rick’s in Welcome (both out of your way in this scenario, but still quality places).

McFann O

November 25th, 2009
8:38 pm

Thanks, Chief! Hope you (and everyone here) have a Happy Thanksgiving, too!

J-MAN

November 25th, 2009
8:39 pm

I’ve been reading some of our prospects rankings and other than Freeman and Heyward it is really deep with pitching. We might wanna put some of these prospects together for a bat and Trade Lowe for some prospects.

nolie

November 25th, 2009
8:43 pm

Nor did I succumb to the childish temptation to call you “and idiot,” nor did I feel the desire to place something in an unnatural part of your anatomy.

i don’t know why you are talking to moby about something i said, but my response was to your snarky insult about my not being able to understand your posts, and there was a smiley there in case you didn’t notice.
you are changing the tone about what you originly posted. you sound like paul l. .four or five people obviously understood it just like i did and told you it didn’t work that way,and it doesn’t.
that out is there to protect a team in case a free agent just falls apart, it is not there to give a club an opportunity to testdrive free agents and that is what all of us said. for some reason you chose to answer me instead of any of the others who said basically the same thing, and my original post was no stronger than anyone elses.

you are telling us that the club doesn’t have to have a provable reason to invoke that out like you know what you are talking about, which is obviously not true.if they have no provable reason it isn’t gonna happen. there
is a reason it almost never happens, and no matter your weaseling out now, the tone of your original post was that it was a reasonable action.if that’s not what you meant, just what exactly did you mean and why did you post it?
on a practical level, just what do you think that action even if marginally justified would do to their future free agent endeavors?
it’s also pretty naive to name yourself like that and not expect someone to play on it.and get mad if they do.
go on weasel away sweetie

BIOMASS

November 25th, 2009
8:48 pm

DOB, you wouldn’t dread the “countless cops” if you obeyed the law. I know, you’re too smart to get your brains smeared across the asphalt.

Damn those cops!

nolie

November 25th, 2009
8:54 pm

Baseball players, like all male athletes, inhabit a culture in which sensitivity is perceived as a sign of weakness, and the inability to deliver a base hit in the clutch is regarded as a character flaw

great quote from crasnick on duchscherrer’s(sp) depression problems.

nolie

November 25th, 2009
9:02 pm

Not only has Pujols had an incredible year, he’s had a historic decade. Pujols is just the fourth player to accomplish a “Decade Triple Crown” — that is, leading a league (AL or NL) in home runs, RBIs and batting average over the course of an entire decade. We’ve discussed this before, but it’s a pretty rare feat. Consider the company (also knowing that Williams missed several years in the 1940s as a war pilot, and RBI didn’t become an official statistic until the 1920s):

Decade Triple Crowns
Decade NL Player BA HR RBI
2000s NL Albert Pujols .334 366 1,112
1940s AL Ted Williams .356 234 893
1920s NL Rogers Hornsby .382 250 1,153
1900s NL Honus Wagner .351 51 956

From Kenton Wong of ESPN Stats & Information: Consider the numbers Pujols has put up prior to turning 30 compared to Hank Aaron. In nearly 800 fewer at-bats, prior to 30, Pujols has a better average (.334 to .320) and more HRs (366 to 342). He also has two more MVP awards.

From Scott Beaman of ESPN Stats & Information: Pujols’ 2009 season was probably the best of his nine-year MLB career. When looking into the numbers, Pujols joins an exclusive list below that includes Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire and Hack Wilson. Since it is widely accepted that Barry Bonds 2001 season and Mark McGwire’s 1998 season were “enhanced,” we can basically say that Pujols’ 2009 season was one of the best in the National League since Hack Wilson’s historic 1930 season in which he drove in an MLB-record 191 runs. The seasons in which a player had a .440 OBP, 45 home runs and 135 RBIs in NL history are Pujols (’09), Bonds (’01), McGwire ‘98) and Hack Wilson (’30).

Olney

Rock On......

November 25th, 2009
9:25 pm

DOB…ah yes, the old I-85 bandits at it again. They are like mosquitos the closer it gets to the end of the month. Quota time you see, not to mention holiday travel to boot. Heading just east of Raleigh tomorrow myself. Just one night though and back to Richmond. I have traveled I-85 about 25 times this year what with the Atlanta/Charlotte trips and all. Never once been given cause for concern going 75 in a 65 or 80 in a 70. Smooth. No worries.

Ok, I know they are a regional chain but you have to give Smithfields a try. Exit 153 near Mebane, NC on 85. Always have good Q or chicken at that one. Great sweet tea and hush puppies. I know you are familiar with Smithfields(mainly Eastern NC chain) but that location in particular has been great for me. You will probably be tired of Q by then but just passing it on my man.

Why does Andruw playing for the Sox just make me laugh? Oh my my my. How far do you have to fall from grace. That is almost like begging to play. You have 3 months till ST and you jump at the 500K to play for the Sox? Just wow!

Rock on…..Happy Thanksgiving to all denizens.

MIBravesFan

November 25th, 2009
9:38 pm

“beekay

November 25th, 2009
3:07 pm
I wouldn’t trade Minor. I think he will be in our rotation in 2011 and is a better prospect than Medlen.”

Based on what, exactly? I’m not discounting Minor, but Kris has shown talent against major league hitters. I doubt Minor will be traded, but I hope Kris isn’t either.

MIBravesFan

November 25th, 2009
9:43 pm

Echoing the sentiments of DOB, Steve from OH, Bravesfaninmetsland, McFann, Rock On, and anyone I might have left out, happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Cherokee

November 25th, 2009
9:54 pm

Maybe I didn’t explain every detail of my supposed dastardly plan to screw over some hapless ballplayer, but rather figured you all to be smart enough to understand simple English (and the rules of major league baseball) enough that I didn’t need to Idiot

seems to me that 4 or 5 of the more knowledgeable posters responded to you in the same vein. Maybe you need to look at your ability to portray what you do actually mean instead of blaming others. I sure took it the same way they did, though I’m not claiming to be a knowledgeable poster.

Braveheart

November 25th, 2009
9:56 pm

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9791

Suppose that I am a pitcher and I decide to repeatedly throw low outside fastballs on the black for every single pitch. Few hitters will be able to club this pitch out of the park, but if I did it consistently enough that hitters knew that old Swartz always throws outside fastballs in every count on every pitch, then hitters would start taking the ball the other way. The result would be a lot of line drives, as hitters prepare to tee off on my predictable pitch. Of course, the second that I surprised a hitter with a cutter inside, they would be caught off-guard—and would be unlikely to hit a line drive if they swung. If I never did that, then my line-drive rate would be very high and my BABIP would persistently be well above .300. Thus, I would be a pitcher who could control my BABIP by making it high.

Of course, what pitcher would want to control his BABIP by being predictable enough to have a high line-drive rate and a high BABIP as a result? No normal pitcher trying to minimize his ERA would do this. However, a pitcher attempting to minimize his FIP might repeatedly throw those outside fastballs. They would rarely walk hitters, and occasionally they would strike some hitters out, and few hitters could hit home runs against them. Thus, there may be a very large difference between pitching to minimize your FIP and pitching to minimize your ERA.

The basic hypothesis here is that FIP is only a good predictor of ERA for pitchers who are trying to minimize their ERA. For pitchers who are pitching to minimize their FIP, they would likely have higher ERAs than FIPs on a consistent basis. Once the subjects becomes aware of an experiment, the data is often useless……… The question then becomes if agents realize that more sabermetrically inclined general managers look at FIP before looking at ERA, they could encourage their clients to focus on FIP a little bit. That would certainly be a shame. ERAs would gradually become higher than FIPs. By how much? Well… not that much. After all, pitchers cannot control BABIP all that much.

Cherokee

November 25th, 2009
9:57 pm

3 months till ST and you jump at the 500K to play for the Sox? Just wow! Rock On

It seems like a good fit to me. He played with Ozzie and it’s another hitter’s park.Considering his last few years I don’t find it funny, I think it’s kind of sad.

blahBLAHblahblah blahblahBLAHblahblah

November 25th, 2009
10:00 pm

blahBLAHblahblah blahblahBLAHblahblah

November 25th, 2009
10:00 pm

Enter your comments here

Cherokee

November 25th, 2009
10:02 pm

Thus, there may be a very large difference between pitching to minimize your FIP and pitching to minimize your ERA Braveheart

whatever happened to pitching to win games? :)

Steve from OH

November 25th, 2009
10:03 pm

whatever happened to pitching to win games?

Haven’t you heard? Wins are overrated!

8)

MZ

November 25th, 2009
10:07 pm

DOB —–
I’ve only driven through that part of the country once, so I’m curious … is S. Carolina as destitute as it appeared to me when I made a trek through there? I mean, I didn’t take any interstates through SC, but I swear, every 15 minutes we went through another small town that looked like it had been abandoned for at least a decade … the only exception was Charleston …
BTW —– be sure to check out Justin Jones & the Driving Rain if you haven’t already … you’ll be glad you did

MZ

November 25th, 2009
10:08 pm

DOB —–
also, enjoy your turkey day … same goes for the rest of the denizens!

Tennbravefan

November 25th, 2009
10:12 pm

Rock On –

Not that I would ever take up for a state trooper, but this “myth” that cops have an end of the month quota is ridiculous. We (yes I am a cop)are like any other job in that we are expected to work. If at the end of the month you have only written 5 tickets you are probably going to get yelled at and if it continues you will eventually get fired. However there is not a set quota. It is required that we do our jobs and traffic enforcement is part of that job.

Cherokee

November 25th, 2009
10:18 pm

However there is not a set quota. It is required that we do our jobs and traffic enforcement is part of that job TBF

thank you. I was a cop for years before I retired. I was going to say something, but decided to let it pass.

Cherokee

November 25th, 2009
10:24 pm

Haven’t you heard? Wins are overrated! Steve

That was funny. I know you are kidding, but some actually claim that is what is being said.
They are obviously very important, they just are not a great metric alone with which to gauge a pitcher’s production.
Just call me Mr Obvious.

Cherokee

November 25th, 2009
10:26 pm

Wow 5 or 6 posts. I don’t post often but sometimes don’t know when to shut up when I do post. :)

Rock On........

November 25th, 2009
10:33 pm

Didn’t mean to imply there was a written number as to quotas. More of an unwritten one as mentioned. As it gets closer to the end of the month that mental quota looms. I’ll just say the level of awareness is greater and leave it at that. To all officers out in denizen land I appreciate what you do .

Rock On........

November 25th, 2009
10:46 pm

Downloaded the fstream app on the iPhone and the classic rock station 181FM The Eagle is great stuff. No dj’s, commercials, or many repeats. Great sound and thousands of stations. Just passing it along. It is my duty to keep you rocking.

Rock on…..

Mitchie-san

November 25th, 2009
10:52 pm

McFann– Yep Im a Navy man. I love it.

To everyone here on the ole blog, I would like to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. I volunteered to work the next few days to give everyone with a family the opportunity to spend Thanksgiving with them. Ill be lurking about the blog in the meantime…

nolie

November 25th, 2009
10:57 pm

Happy Turkey Day y’all !!

Roman Gal

November 25th, 2009
11:08 pm

many of the opinions expressed here are… puzzling (being polite)

You’re so polite. I should strive to be more polite.

nolie

November 25th, 2009
11:11 pm

DOB There was an actor/writer back in the 40s and 50s named Dave O’brien. Used to play Tex Ritter’s Texas Ranger sidekick a lot in hour long westerns along with a lot of other character actor stuff. Guess you aren’t quite old enough to be that guy.

Duke

November 25th, 2009
11:31 pm

DOB, you heard of Wild Light? I’m currently digging their new album, Adult Nights

Mitchie-san

November 25th, 2009
11:32 pm

In the 40’s there was also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Midnight_(serial)

Our DOB certainly could use the same name sometimes…

bravesfanlmh

November 25th, 2009
11:44 pm

I know this trade isn’t likely to happen but it would make sense if Detroit is looking to free up money.
Braves get: Miguel Cabrera
Tigers get: Derek Lowe, Jordan Schafer, Freeman,& a couple of minor leaguers.

This would gives the braves what they need a Power Hitting First Baseman. From the Tigers standpoint you get a promising young outfielder in Schafer, a replacement first basemen of the future in Freeman. With Lowe you get a veteran workhorse. The tigers also would save $83 million total in the deal. For the next 3 years you would essentially only be paying Cabrera $6 Million.

Mitchie-san

November 25th, 2009
11:51 pm

bravesfanlmh,

Id do it. It would be hard to give up two of our top prospects, but MC is exactly the kind of bat the Braves need.

And Idiot

November 25th, 2009
11:58 pm

nolie

rotflmao

Using correct grammar and punctuation has a purpose, to make clear what you are saying so it is not interpreted incorrectly. Oops, it didn’t work with you. Your posts clearly indicate that you don’t practice the concept when writing or when you’re reading. Otherwise you wouldn’t still be trying to put words into my mouth that I didn’t say (or write, in this case), imply, or even think.

“if that’s not what you meant, just what exactly did you mean and why did you post it?”

I meant exactly what I (and Frank Wren) said. Arbitration-based mlb contracts are not guaranteed as free agent contracts are. They afford the team some manner of protection. I went on (when asked) to explain that justification for cancelling such contracts must be based on “baseball” reasons and not “financial” reasons. I can’t help it if you want to interpret and assume that I meant something else.

I may be And Idiot, but I’m not stupid enough to think that any team would ever cut a player without coming up with a justifiable “baseball” reason even if their true motivation included “financial” reasons.

“And Idiot” is a moniker intended to poke fun at the many childish reactions on the blog, and good-natured references to it do not bother me. But I do take offense to remarks such as, “you can shove that particular crap where the sun don’t shine sweetie” even if they come with a smiley face. :)

nolie

November 26th, 2009
12:01 am

I’m kinda scairt of Miggy a few years down the road. He does not seem to take care of himself. He sure is a hitter, but I don’t see the Braves putting that much money in one position what with the other needs.
I am worried about the pen guys. There are some relievers available, but IMO it’s gonna be hard hard hard to replace those two.
I’ve said it B4 though no one seems to agree but I think this winter could be tougher than last. They have more different kind of needs, and expectations for next season are already much higher than last winter.
Good luck Frank

bravefaninok

November 26th, 2009
12:04 am

Happy Thanksgiving, Denziens and DOB…Please be safe on the Roads

nolie

November 26th, 2009
12:19 am

Using correct grammar and punctuation has a purpose, to make clear what you are saying so it is not interpreted incorrectly. Oops, it didn’t work with you. Your posts clearly indicate that you don’t practice the concept when writing or when you’re reading. Otherwise you wouldn’t still be trying to put words into my mouth that I didn’t say (or write, in this case), imply, or even think.

what a load of crap. I have no problem with others understanding me. I’m ill , on a huge number of pills and I have a nerve problem that makes it hard to type well, but everybody seems to get it.
It’s your post that several good posters seem to have been unable to understand correctly.
I know I have seen that same stupid attack of grammar and typing on here before. I’m sure you use another name and have been the same idiot b4 you finally named yourself correctly. I’m thinking Jeff321 or ML04 someone like that.
If you can’t write so that everybody else can comprehend what you mean, don’t blame it on me . You made a foolish statement and then argued ignorantly and now are putting a different spin on it and blaming all of us who just aren’t intelligent enough to appreciate your superior intellect (joke in case you don’t get it)..I’ll put up my college degrees and IQ test scores and baseball experience and knowledge against yours any day of the week, sweetie :)
You were wrong and are trying to obfuscate it with spin tactics, changing the entire tone of your original remarks as others have also said. You ain’t foolin’ anybody my man.
What are you, 16?

and you can still shove your condescending rationalizations where the sun don’t shine. No smiley this time

And Idiot

November 26th, 2009
12:20 am

nolie (@ 12:01)

Miggy scares me NOW, like he’s one shot away from going all Milton Bradley on us. Great bat (and I understand his defense is better, though I didn’t see him play in person), but the “issues” and the contract are scary. Too, bad we can’t get him on an arbitration-based contract and cut him if he acts out. (Couldn’t resist – lol)

And I agree that this off season may, indeed, be tougher than last year to put the pieces together. There are few obvious and easy answers out there. But we’ll probably never hear about the “near misses” like last year since FW is playing it much closer to the vest.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
12:50 am

nolie,

what is up?

there is there weird chance the braves get it right.

keep the pitchers.

keep javy. period priod.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
12:50 am

nolie,

what is up?

there is there weird chance the braves get it right.

keep the pitchers.

keep javy. period priod.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
12:55 am

nolie.

that post did not come out right.

either way i would rather have those starting six rather then willingham, or cruz.

we had no injuries on our staff this year. that is not normal.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
1:16 am

three times make a moron.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
1:21 am

well the again whatching roadhouse, on vh1.

gotta love mijho.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
1:25 am

there is a ouutside chance the dawgs might beat tech.

we are a huge underdog. we got the better athletes.

but they are better coached.,

nolie

November 26th, 2009
1:56 am

Hey Uga. How ya doin’ tonight? I think Medlen can be backup for injuries even though I’m not sold on him. Keeping all 6 starters would be nice if we had enough payroll, but I think it’s too much invested for the Braves to actually do it. I think Lowe can bounce back, but he would give us the most payroll flexibility. A deal for someone with a bit of MLB experience and high upside would do 4 me if we could then use the windfall on some other problem areas like the pen etc.
I’m in no hurry and am just hangin’ round to see what Frank will get done. Have a Happy Thanksgiving bro.

Andrew

November 26th, 2009
2:10 am

UGA why were you talking to yourself for so long

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
2:10 am

nolie,

i would rather have javy, tommy , jjj, and hudson.

those four will give us a chance?

they will miss bats.

like strikeout pitchers.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
2:12 am

andrew,

unless my good friend bay area aint around nothing better to do.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
2:21 am

andrew,

cmon unless you know a guy named wes vawter in atlanta, you got know cred.

Andrew

November 26th, 2009
2:24 am

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
2:36 am

dob,

we could talk about the smihtereens. . jeff schutz was pretty sure about the time that black jack fell down.

baseball project.

40 watt.

the orginal 40 watt was on broad and lumpkin.

the uptown lounge moved behind where the original oddysey used to be.

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
2:42 am

uptown lounge, hosted some great bands.

smiths, in the 80’s we saw great music. the church.

hoodo gooros.

remmber that great album mars needs guitars?

uga-brave

November 26th, 2009
2:49 am

just stoking the fire,

aint gonna get that fine carolina b’bque.

love the vinequar thing.

pulled pork with that light afore mentioned thing works.

nolie

November 26th, 2009
3:10 am

love the vinequar thing

oh boy, not me either in BBQ or cole slaw. not really much of a BBQ fan at all. I had to get a special dispensation from Dave just to keep coming here since I don’t like Q, or The Clash and I think Penelope Cruz has elephant ears. ;)

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
3:13 am

uga

It is a bit scary trading off a good pitcher, because how many times have we seen teams pitching plans fall apart. Remember 2008! What a disaster.

But I do think with Medlen, Reyes and a few other guys backing them up, we would be OK if we lost 1 pitcher (assuming we deal one pitcher). With the 5th position, you can skip him more in the early going.

Looking forward to the turkey and ham and all the fixins tomorrow (joining with 2 other families, so a single turkey won’t do it!).

I know I can be a jerk sometimes, but I truly enjoy most posters on the blog. I also appreciate the insight that Dave provides.

Here’s hoping all will have a wonderful Thanksgiving weekend. Take the time to appreciate your family, your freedoms and anything else you hold dear to your heart.

If anyone is looking for a good thing to do this Christmas season, go to http://www.christmasjars.com and check it out. You can make a difference for someone in your neighborhood/office/family who is having a difficult time.

Take care folks!

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
3:15 am

Same to you, Wayne!

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
3:18 am

nolie/uga

Never meet BBQ I didn’t like! I appreciate all style! Dry rub hog ribs are my favorite though.

And nolie, I don’t think I have ever noticed anything about Penelope Cruz’ ears…….

:mrgreen:

nolie

November 26th, 2009
3:18 am

Enjoy that bird Wayne, and everybody else too

nolie

November 26th, 2009
3:19 am

And nolie, I don’t think I have ever noticed anything about Penelope Cruz’ ears Wayne

ah she’s alright when she wears her hair down…

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
3:20 am

Mitchie

Just sitting here watching “Tommy Boy”, one of my favorite movies of all time.

It’s getting late, but I don’t have to get up too early tomorrow.

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
3:22 am

Yeah, I guess she does have hair too, huh. Never noticed.

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
3:23 am

Stop playing with your dinghy!

nolie

November 26th, 2009
3:28 am

nite y’all

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
3:29 am

nolie/uga/Mitch

I think we are going to have to wait about 2 more weeks to see what the Braves first move will be. Unless it is another Juan Abreu type deal, it might give a lot of insight to followup moves.

It certainly will be fun after the first real move to then speculate on additional moves. Dang I love the hot stove league.

I guess I am a big time prospect hugger, but I sure hope we don’t unload Medlen or Schafer. Freeman too, for that matter. I just like it when we develop our own talent, as it seems to give us a chance to have a longer relationship with these guys.

Just too bad that Andruw could’nt take better care of himself. Jonny Gomes would be a good pickup, if the Reds don’t retain him.

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
3:30 am

nolie, your a good man. Have a good night!

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
3:34 am

Mitchie, I think your brain has a thick candy shell…..

I love Michelle’s retort to the boys on the shore!

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
3:34 am

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
3:41 am

Wayne,
I too love the hot stove. I hate it at the same time due to impatience.

I know I am a minority with some of my ideas on the blog. I am not a prospect hugger as much as some of the rest. I do not mind trading prospects for legitimate, proven players. (within reason, of course.) Schafer, Medlin, Freeman…they can all go if its for the right player/players.
I really think the Braves can pry away BJ Upton from the Rays. I would love to see that. Vazquez, Schafer, +1 for Upton? Javy might be too expensive for em though…

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
3:43 am

My favorite line from Tommy Boy…
Tommy: I l-left a message.
Richard: A message? What number did you call?
Tommy: Two, four, niner, five, six, seven…
Richard: I can’t hear you, you’re trailing off and did I catch a niner in there? Were you calling from a walkie-talkie?
Tommy: No, it was cordless.

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
3:46 am

Wayne, Your… Your brain has the shell on it.

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
3:55 am

Mitchie

Two of my three sons have a lot of the lines memorized from TB. My company used to use the selling scenes in our sales training center as a way to lighten things up.

One of our family traditions is on the Thanksgiving weekend, we put up our Christmas tree, and while doing so, watch “Christmas Vacation”.

I always tell my wife “I’m going to get you something..(click)…real nice.”

I think I am going to run.

Take care of yourself. Another thing I am thankful for are young folks like yourself. I know I have mentioned it before, but I do appreciate your service. I bet your folks are proud of you.

Talk with you again soon.

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
4:00 am

Thnaks Wayne. Take care. Tell you son “Hi” for me.

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
4:00 am

Wow, sorry about the typos….

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
8:02 am

Dear John Malone,

Listen to your baseball advisors and pull the trigger on the Cabrera trade. It will make the Braves more valuable.

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
8:03 am

Give Thanks all Braves Fans when this deal is done.

TommyP

November 26th, 2009
8:27 am

Haven’t posted much due to lack of time but have read off and on some suggestions on here. The latest conversation piece on here that makes absolutely NO SENSE? Trading for Miguel Cabrera???

I’ve said it before about certain players and I’ll say it again about Cabrera: He’s not a “Braves-type” player. With his attitude (he’s had attitude problems since he came up from the minors) and his terrible defense, he’s just not a fit for the Braves. Oh yeah…he comes with a $21 million price tag per year for 6 more years! Are you friggin’ kidding me? C’mon, y’all. Keep talking about this on the blog and DOB is going to have to dedicate a full blog like he did suggesting the Braves won’t deal Jurrjens….which was ridiculous.

If the Braves were going to acquire a guy making that much money, why wouldn’t they just offer Jason Bay a 4 year deal at about $16 million per year and not deal any prospects/players? So we’re going to overpay by about $5 million per year for Cabrera (compared to Bay) AND lose some players in the transaction for a guy that plays worse defense and has a history of attitude problems? Okkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy…….

I still think we sign Laroche to a 2-year deal after everything settles. He fits extremely well in the clubhouse, gives us great glove at 1B, and is that power source we so desperately need (if for just 2/3 the season). 2 year-$15 million would get it done provided Laroche doesn’t get something longer term. Plus, it gives Freeman 2 years to get ready. He needs to develop some power in the minors before we start thinking about him as a starting 1B in Atlanta.

Interesting that Shelley Duncan is now a free agent. Seems like he could possibly be one of those late bloomers that could help someone. Cheap pickup for the Braves in the OF? Just a thought.

Great food and terrible football ahead today…might be back when the “out-laws” get on my nerves at some point. :)

7

November 26th, 2009
9:19 am

Enter your comments here

Bill

November 26th, 2009
9:26 am

Happy Thanksgiving DOB and all you great Braves fans. May the good Lord continue to bless you and GO Braves.

Thanks Wren in advance for a big deal?

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
9:33 am

Tommy P,

Has LaRoche or Bay avereged .300 BA 35 HR and 125 RBI per year for 4 years in a row. NO, Bay had 1 good year and LaRoche has never, repeat never done this, and is only a Type B. Since Cabrera is not caucasian, his reported attitude is simply histrionics.

Norton2010

November 26th, 2009
9:36 am

I’d like to wish a happy thanksgiving to Greg Norton.

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
9:39 am

Tommy P,

Read your post again, and it is even more laughable. The good Lord will provide – Thanx Bill for the spiritual message while my country pays the Taliban not to attack the supply routes so Ahghan children can enjoy a Thanksgiving meal – Truley American.

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
9:43 am

Oh,

And a blessed Thanksgiving to former President Bush for killing all those Muslims in Iraq and making our great country safer.

njbraves

November 26th, 2009
9:43 am

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
9:57 am

Have not heard from little George. Did he take a header back into the bottle?

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
9:59 am

Hell, if I were him, knowing what I did, that’s where I’d be.

Lew

November 26th, 2009
10:01 am

eyeball kid-Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. Isn’t it a bit early to be drunk, though?

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
10:05 am

We all get in way over our heads. So, if you look at the totality of the situation, Cabrera makes perfect sense for the Braves. He’s a lot less risky than electing a moron to lead the free world, especially one that didn’t even win his first election.

Lew

November 26th, 2009
10:06 am

eyeball kid-Pop another brew Dude and maybe you’ll actually convince yourself you’re not talking nonsense.

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
10:08 am

Lew,

Thank You, and Happy Thanksgiving to you. I hope you and your loved ones are well. Thank You for giving me a Thanksgiving pass on being liquored up.

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
10:10 am

Lew,

Do you know Tom Robbins?

eyeball kid

November 26th, 2009
10:12 am

Lew,

Are you also preparing youself for the familial bliss known as Thanksgiving?

VaBraveFan

November 26th, 2009
10:20 am

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

McFann O

November 26th, 2009
10:23 am

Mitchie-san

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too! Thank you so much for your service! You and all your comrades-in-arms are always in my prayers!

Lew

November 26th, 2009
10:32 am

I’m on a strict diet and I haven’t partaken of alcohol since 1986, so depends on what you mean by bliss. Will I enjoy being with my wife and enjoy talking to my Son ;later today? Absolutely. Will I be partying? No.

richbrave

November 26th, 2009
11:07 am

Happy Thanksgiving to our blogmeister and all posters regulars and lurkers alike.

David O'Brien

November 26th, 2009
11:22 am

You actually liked Smiley’s? — Cameron

Actually, more like “loved it.” That’s good eating, including the slaw right on the pork. That’s standard here in N.C., but I usually get mine with the slaw on the side. Didn’t think to ask there, and was glad I didn’t after it came and I ate it. Delicious.

David O'Brien

November 26th, 2009
11:26 am

Nolie, that’s the same Dave O’Brien that starred in the cult classic “Reefer Madness,” right? Got that on DVD. Actually, I think it’s VCR (yeah, still got a bunch of VCRs — who knew that was going to be so thoroughly outmoded so soon?)

Lew

November 26th, 2009
11:31 am

Reefer Madness was on just the other night on cable. I noticed that there was a Dave O’Brien in it. Figured he was a bit too old to be DOB. Great satire. Too bad they were serious when they made it.

CB

November 26th, 2009
11:43 am

DOB, I like Smiley’s,but I believe Monk’s is better,have you ever tried?

Goldenglove002

November 26th, 2009
12:04 pm

Derek Lowe and an okay OF prospect for Alfonso Soriano and Josh Vitters

Nate from NCState

November 26th, 2009
12:04 pm

Hey does anyone remember what the SOX, white ones of course, were offering 5 or so years ago for Andruw Jones? Who knew that he would have fallen this far so soon? Obviously neither the Braves or Chi-Town.

Goldenglove002

November 26th, 2009
12:16 pm

Marko

November 26th, 2009
12:34 pm

Not to be negative, but….

The players that the Braves target this offseason shows that they are just trying to bridge the gap to the next generation players – Heyward, Freeman, Schaefer. In doing that, it shows that they acknowledge that they are gearing up for 2011-2012 and will compete the best they can in 2010 but realistically, won’t expect anything special.

Hopefully the pitching staff can carry them. I think the starters did great this last season, but it didn’t get them that much in the grand scheme of things. You can bet that Jurjens, Hanson, and Hudson will get hot and reel off 4-5 starts in a row each where they single handingly win the games. Still, it’s going to be the same thing this year. Pitchers pitch 6-7 solid innings. Relief takes over and gives up a run and they lose 2-1 or 3-2.

Mets2010champs

November 26th, 2009
12:40 pm

THe Mets are going to sign Holliday!

Coach (2011 or Bust)

November 26th, 2009
12:47 pm

Happy Turkey day to all and wishing everyone to stay safe on the roads during this holiday season.

Has anyone considered the possibility of Adrian Gonzalez? It’s a long shot but doable if a few things roll the Braves way. Should the Yankees and Red Sox make a run at John Lackey then the Angels would be in the market for another pitcher. Our Braves would still have to eat some of Derek Lowe’s current salary but the frame work for a three way trade would be in place.

The Braves would end up with Adrian Gonzalez while Lowe pitches for the Halo’s and the Padres end up with a boat load of five or six prospects, and the Padres could of course throw my man Luis Durango into the deal with Gonzalez. It’s far fetched at the moment but give it time, patience is a virtue.

Brave4life

November 26th, 2009
12:51 pm

Mets2010Champs

When i think of the Mets i think of an injury waiting to happen. Please dont injur the few good players on the FA list. Players injured Reyes, Wagner, Delgado, Santana/ Am i missing anyone?. I think the Mets are Jinxed. Just go to your own forums, your probably the cause of the Jinx.

ccrider

November 26th, 2009
12:53 pm

Mets2010champs; You may very well get Holiday, but that will mean, with your pitching, that you just lose games 5-4 rather than 3-2. You still will be looking up at the Braves and the Phillies!

ccrider

November 26th, 2009
1:00 pm

TommyP; Like the idea of giving Shelly Duncan a good look, has good power and OBP, I don’t know about his defense or his splits. He would probably be a Diaz like guy and would be used in a platoon.

AustinBrave

November 26th, 2009
1:58 pm

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!

From Texas

GO BRAVES!!!!!!!

brian

November 26th, 2009
2:35 pm

was it the vinegar coleslaw or the mayo coleslaw DOB? I have grown partial to the vinegar coleslaw

Wayne in Utah

November 26th, 2009
2:40 pm

For a moment there, I was thinking that the eyeball kid and I were agreeing on something (his 10:05 post about electing a moron), then I realized he was talking about some other guy……..

Happy Thanksgiving. Be thankful for your freedoms, while you still have them.

keylargo

November 26th, 2009
2:42 pm

Next-to-last in the nation in turnover margin. Next-to-last in kickoff coverage. Fourth from the bottom in penalties.

And maybe the most mind-boggling statistic of all: just one opponent fumble recovered all year. Tim Tucker

That’s about the most damning evaluation of Georgia football in forty words I’ve ever seen. How can players with that much athletic ability be that bad, and 100th or so out of 105 is abysmal?

nolie

November 26th, 2009
3:11 pm

<b.DOB

yup, same O’Brien. He was in a bunch of stuff and was a writer too as Dave Barclay. also was billed as Dave “Tex” O’Brien in some flix, mostly the Texas ranger series with Tex Ritter. Tex dudes all over the place on those. Happy Thanksgiving.

nolie

November 26th, 2009
3:12 pm

(his 10:05 post about electing a moron) Wayne

you mean W ?

TommyP

November 26th, 2009
5:01 pm

eyeball KID: You’re probably passed out by now but my first point on Cabrera was that he’s not a fit for the Braves. We’re not giving $21+ million to anyone. Maybe you don’t understand that. Scratch the “maybe.”

nolie

November 26th, 2009
5:07 pm

We’re not giving $21+ million to anyone. Tommy P

absolutely agree.

18 Wheels of Love

November 26th, 2009
5:15 pm

$100 if someone will come take my dysfunctional family members for a long walk off a short dock.

Venice Jim

November 26th, 2009
6:59 pm

If you ask me, the only thing – please pass the gravy – that makes sense for the – who has the stuffing? – Braves this off -season, and which would – that is the best turkey I have ever roasted – undoubtedly solve every problem the team faces, is – wait, let me start eating and then I will get back soon and make everything perfectly clear…

N8

November 26th, 2009
7:30 pm

I wanted to know what all fuss was about, so I stopped by KFC and got some barbecue boneless wings and coleslaw.

You guys are WAAAAY over valuing each dish. :-)

N8

November 26th, 2009
7:32 pm

“Has anyone considered the possibility of Adrian Gonzalez?” Coach

Hmmm. Now that you mention it… Oh wait. Yeah. It’s been discussed a “couple” of times.

Welcome back Coach.

nolie

November 26th, 2009
9:01 pm

Hey where did VJ go? He was gonna come back and solve all the riddles of the Braves universe. Damn I hate it when someone gets your hopes up like that and fails to follow through. Prolly pickin’ up bad habits from CBF already.

Marc in FL

November 26th, 2009
9:05 pm

Hope ya’ll had a good Thanksgiving, watching some Pumpkin Chunkin’ right now, good stuff. Hopefully the offseason will be picking up now. Any bets on where Lackey ends up? I think the Mets have to pursue him, and if they get him our division looks to be tough all around.

Venice Jim

November 26th, 2009
9:14 pm

nolie – sorry, got distracted – here it is – damn, dessert – I promise, it will become clear very soon…mmm – pecan pie!

(some people claim that there’s a woman to blame, but I know, it’s my own damn fault…)

cabravesfan

November 26th, 2009
10:03 pm

Evening all :) Nice to see I’m being thought about even when I am not around…

Nolie-

Any bad habits VJ has, he picked up looong before he met me- as I am sure he will tell you, I am an angel, complete with shiny halo and accompanying harps ;)

Mitchie-san

November 26th, 2009
10:15 pm

FYI, in general, military food is never that good. But every Thanksgiving, we get well taken care of. I give thanks to the Brass for feeding us.
I just hope I dont slip into a Turkey Coma sometime in the next twelve hours…..

Venice Jim

November 26th, 2009
10:40 pm

Sure, like she said…

cabravesfan

November 26th, 2009
10:41 pm

See? I’ve got him agreeing with me already ;)

P. W. Hjort

November 26th, 2009
10:42 pm

Happy Thanksgiving, denziens et. all. Did anyone get adventurous and try to BBQ a turkey? I’ve never heard of it, but it sure sounds good.

Got a good video for everyone:

Julio Teheran Video | Scouting the Sally

Steve from OH

November 26th, 2009
10:54 pm

Really? Trying to rip people off on Thanksgiving?

Does anyone in the Big 12 know how to play defense?

Fred

November 26th, 2009
11:11 pm

P. W. Hjort, I smoked my turkey on my Weber Smokey Mountain smoker and it turned out very well. I don’t think I could go back to eating oven roasted turkey. Here is a link to the Weber web site: http://virtualweberbullet.com/

Goldenglove002

November 26th, 2009
11:18 pm

Steve-

No, they don’t.

Venice Jim

November 26th, 2009
11:30 pm

Soph

November 26th, 2009
11:38 pm

Go Falcons!

Nu uh, my friend. Sorry your Giants lost but it doesn’t work that way. I’m sure cab has room for you on the 49ers wagon. ;-)

richbrave

November 26th, 2009
11:55 pm

DOB:

Well, I guess it’s a trip to PARKER’s tomorrow. Enjoy!

richbrave

November 26th, 2009
11:56 pm

Hey, VJ, you still out there?

Frank from KS (now living in CO)

November 27th, 2009
12:10 am

Hi DOB, N8, cabravesfan…..and all. Long time, no see. Been spending a lot of my time on Facebook but wanted to come check out the blog and say hello to everyone again.

MZ

November 27th, 2009
12:11 am

DOB ——-
Straitjackets comin to The Earl on the 1st … lemme know if they’re any good live if you go

Venice Jim

November 27th, 2009
12:49 am

richbrave – for another minute or two – good luck Saturday!

cabravesfan

November 27th, 2009
12:55 am

Frank-

Hi! Nice to hear from you- hope your Thanksgiving was pleasant :)

It’s bedtime for me- Night all

tdmorgan

November 27th, 2009
3:00 am

N8, you’ve got to get real cole slaw and real bbq/bbq boneless wings. kfc is the taco bell of mexican food. its not bad but its nothing to rave about.

Wayne in Utah

November 27th, 2009
5:28 am

tdmorgan

Sometimes, Taco Bell or KFC might be your only choices…..then they are pretty OK.

The turkey and all the fixin’s were great today. I have a lot to be thankful for.

Wayne in Utah

November 27th, 2009
5:28 am

Just wish I could sleep better sometimes….

Dreamin in NC

November 27th, 2009
6:07 am

I dont know if this has been said, but if Cabrera is traded for, who cars if he blocks freeman, its miguel cabrera !! trade freeman, freeman could be good, but everyone knows cabrera is one of the best

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
8:36 am

I love Taco Bell….

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
8:38 am

who cars if he blocks freeman, its miguel cabrera !! trade freeman, freeman could be good, but everyone knows cabrera is one of the best

But not everybody knows Cabrera is one of the most expensive (apparently). He’s due over $20 million for several years. That’s enough to cripple a payroll

TommyP

November 27th, 2009
8:38 am

Dreamin in NC: He makes $126 million over the next 6 years. Stop talking about it ’cause it isn’t happening.

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
8:50 am

Shoot…every other vent has been updated today. The sports vents haven’t been updated since Monday. How’d you like to have that guy’s schedule?

Wjones

November 27th, 2009
8:55 am

Does anyone in the Big 12 know how to play defense. Yes, Nebraska does. At least they did when they held Oklahoma to 3 points. I know Texas > Oklahoma, but I’m anxious to see how they do against them.

Braves 4 Life

November 27th, 2009
9:26 am

All this talk about Cabrera’s huge salary isn’t surprising but I think it is not being put in perspective. Last year we gave a 35 year old pitcher 4 years at 15 Million a year. While Derek Lowe is a great reliable pitcher he is not a top 10 pitcher and you may be hard pressed to say that he is in the top 20. Cabrera on the other hand is 26 and his remaining contract is for 6 years at between 20 and 22 million a season. Cabrera unlike Lowe is one of the game’s elite position players and he is about to hit the prime of his career. He easily makes the top 20 for all position players and by many accounts would fit nicely in the top 10.

From a management perspective it is far less risky to give a position player a huge multi-year contract than it is to give a pitcher one. I also think anyone would agree that getting a 26 year old on 6 year contract is less risky than a 35 year old on a 4 year deal. Cabrera would occupy our cleanup spot for 6 long years how can you as a Braves fan not drool on that. I for one think that the Braves would be way better off having Cabrera at an extra cost of $5 to $6 million as compared to Lowe. All this talk about Cabrera’s about Braves management not having the stomach for Cabrera’s risky contract has to stop because IMO the Braves have already assumed a more risky contract just one year ago.

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
9:31 am

But nobody’s arguing that Lowe’s contract was a good idea. It was a necessary evil at the time (we NEEDED steady starters).

Plus, with Lowe’s gigantic salary, that makes it even more improbable that we pick up Cabrera. And don’t use the “maybe we can trade Lowe for Cabrera, big contract for a big contract” argument. If you’re the Tigers, would you rather pay a bundle for Derek Lowe or Miguel Cabrera?

just in

November 27th, 2009
9:38 am

Lowe, McLouth, Medlen, Kimbrel, Freeman, and Schafer are heading to Detroit for Cabrera, Granderson, and Ordonez.

McFann O

November 27th, 2009
9:39 am

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving…I know I did!

Mitchie-san

Glad to know they feed you well on Thanksgiving. It’s a crime shame they don’t have better food for you the rest of the year…

Braves 4 Life

November 27th, 2009
9:44 am

Jeffrey D- I agree with your retort. Any deal for Cabrera would have to involve getting rid of Lowe’s salary. However, I disagree that Lowe’s contract was not a good idea. I think that Lowe’s signing represents market value even today. DOB and other sources have stated a couple times we would be able to unload Lowe without assuming salary; which, IMO defines market value. My main point was just because Cabrera is making $20-22M a season should not be the sole reason for many of these posters to shoot down trading for him. Yes it represents a fifth of your payroll but we have numerous players making the league minimum (Prado, Hanson, JJ, Escobar, Medlin) with many in the pipeline (Heyward, Freeman, Minor) to offset the large amount. Obviously some of the above mentioned players would have to be included for Cabrera but you can substitute some of the names for others that we have in our deep farm system.

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
9:47 am

Lowe, McLouth, Medlen, Kimbrel, Freeman, and Schafer are heading to Detroit for Cabrera, Granderson, and Ordonez.

Wait, when were the Braves’ and Tigers’ entire front offices diagnosed with mental retardation?

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
9:49 am

Yes it represents a fifth of your payroll but we have numerous players making the league minimum (Prado, Hanson, JJ, Escobar, Medlin) with many in the pipeline (Heyward, Freeman, Minor) to offset the large amount

But the longevity of Cabrera’s contract will make it difficult to hang on to those guys. I’m not saying I wouldn’t love to have Miguel Cabrera, I’m just saying unless we get a big pay raise it’s gonna be rough taking on that salary.

Braves 4 Life

November 27th, 2009
9:49 am

The bottom line is; make a deal for a cleanup hitter. Coming in third place is not where the Braves belong. Philly is an awful city with an awful fan base that does not deserve to be atop the NL. I have faith that Wren is the man that will build our team up to displace that miserable franchise that is the Phillies (with or without Cabrera). Go Braves!!!

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
9:57 am

This just in from Herschel Talker on Bradley’s blog:

YOU ARE ALL BLIND HOMERS AND MARK RICHT APOLOGISTS. HE IS A GOOFBALL WHO CARES MORE ABOUT JESUS THAN ABOUT WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. THAT IS GREAT FOR SUNDAYS, NOT FOR SATURDAYS. HE IS MOST DEFINITELY FIT TO TEACH MEN HOW TO LEAD RIGHTEOUS LIVES, BUT HE IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT FIT TO COACH A FOOTBALL TEAM. ALL OF YOU WHO CAN’T SEE IT ARE STUPID IDIOTS.

FIRE MARK RICHT!!!

And I thought he stopped talking in all caps. But did you notice the YAACA allusion? Nice touch.

Braves 4 Life

November 27th, 2009
9:57 am

“I’m not saying I wouldn’t love to have Miguel Cabrera, I’m just saying unless we get a big pay raise it’s gonna be rough taking on that salary.”
Jeffery D- Cabrera’s remaining salary figures are: 10:$20M, 11:$20M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$22M, 15:$22M. Look at his salary this way; minus Lowe’s obligation for 10-13 and when chipper retires at the end of 2012 season (FYI he makes 13M a year), his new figures would be 10:$5M, 11:$5M, 12:$6M, 13:$8M, 14:$9M, 15:$9M. Those figures are a lot more manageable ehh? I am not blaming you for questioning taking on $126M cause you should but it is doable.

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
10:00 am

ehhhh, we’ll see

Thundersticks

November 27th, 2009
10:03 am

I agree with Braves 4 Life. Yes, Cabrera’s contact is hefty. Yes, that is not normal for the Braves to take on such a contract. Yes, Lowe would have to be moved in order to take on that contract. However, you’ve made some very good points. Lowe’s contract is at least as risky, if not more so given his age and position. If we were to get Cabrera, we could trade Freeman in the deal to get him. Another thing to consider is Chipper’s contract will come off the books near the end of Cabrera’s contract. As will Hudson’s. This will be about the time JJ, Hanson, Escobar and Heyward (I realize at different times) will be due their big raises.

Having said all of that, I doubt Wren would pull the trigger because that just hasn’t been the Braves’ MO.

David O'Brien

November 27th, 2009
10:53 am

I love Taco Bell…. — jeffrey d

Shoot…every other vent has been updated today. The sports vents haven’t been updated since Monday. How’d you like to have that guy’s schedule? — jeffrey d

Just think, if you had that guy’s schedule, how much time it’d give you to indulge in the finer things in life. Like Taco Bell.

David O'Brien

November 27th, 2009
10:58 am

DOB and other sources have stated a couple times we would be able to unload Lowe without assuming salary; — Braves 4 Life

Nope, haven’t stated that. I have said it’s not a given that the Braves will have to eat a lot of salary, that the dearth of starting pitchers available on free agent market increases the chances of the Braves being able to unload Lowe’s contract, perhaps without eating much of the remaining $45 mill. And who knows, some team might need a pitcher bad enough to do a deal and assume all the remaining money he’s owed. But I wouldn’t count on that.

Lew

November 27th, 2009
11:08 am

Maybe it’s time to ask just why the Tigers are so willing to say goodbye to Miguel Cabrera before y’all get those huge stars in your eyes. If all they wanted to do was dump salary, a hit on Dontrelle would do the trick, or maybe just having someone do a Tanya Harding on Ordonez’s leg.

Why would they want to get rid of such a productive player? Money? I’m doubting that’s all there is to it. Seems to me that the only time that a team is willing to consume mass quatities of salary (unless they’re from France) is if, like in the case of Russ Ortiz, the team is certain the player just won’t perform. Is this the case with Miggy the Party Animal? Reality check time. We don’t want the Dude.

Lew

November 27th, 2009
11:10 am

Say what you will about Taco Bell, but their food won’t raise your blood sugar like Micky D’s or Burger King.

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
11:20 am

For health reasons, my trips to Taco Bell are usually sparse. So if I had the vent guy’s schedule I’d have to enjoy the other fine things in life, like Dane Cook or “Kazaam” starring Shaq.

Braves 4 Life

November 27th, 2009
11:21 am

I apologize for miss quoting you. I could have sworn I saw that on here though. Love your blogs…

Efrim

November 27th, 2009
11:21 am

Miguel Cabrera is not coming to the Braves, I’m not sure why people are wasting their time discussing it. Olney just brought the Braves up because they need a cleanup hitter and right hander bat. Anyway…

Jon Heyman is saying the Jays want Buchholz + the Red Sox top prospect, Casey Kelly. From the Yankees, Joba or Hughes + the Yanks top prospect, Jesus Montero. That’s quite a price to pay for one year of Halladay.

Braves 4 Life

November 27th, 2009
11:38 am

Lew- I like that argument a lot better than he makes too much money. The main motivation for the Tiger’s to dump salary is that (figures may be off a little) they had the fourth largest payroll and had a 20% drop in attendance from the year before. 20% sounds a little high and may be the figure that is off but whatever figure it was it was substantial. Trading Dontrelle and Ordonez would save money but their contracts are awful and the Tiger’s would have to pick up a ton of money. From what I have read the Tiger’s are talking about trading Granderson, Edwin Jackson, and Cabrera bc they are their most marketable pieces. A secondary motivation for trading Cabrera for the Tiger’s steams from that altercation he had with his wife drunker than a sunk the night before a one game playoff series. That kind of news probably does not go over well in a city with an unemployment rate as high as Detroit. I agree that it would take loads of talent to get Cabrera, he would take a significant portion of our budget, and that he has questionable character but I also see a guy who can hit .300 and knock out 30+ homers a year with consistency.

Venice Jim

November 27th, 2009
11:42 am

jeffrey – thanks for sharing my buddy Herschel’s wit and wisdom – sometimes you don’t realize how much you miss somebody until…until…well, never mind…

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
11:51 am

I really just liked seeing him say “You all are Richt apologists!”

Lew

November 27th, 2009
11:52 am

Braves4Life-Dude has a drinking problem-why do you think Detroit wants to let him go? It is NOT just money issues. Yes, they signed some really stupid contracts-no doubt about that, but do you seriously think anyone can afford the Guy unless they eat tons of that contract? If they DO eat that much, then you have to wonder why they’re willing to do it and at that point, it obviously isn’t about the $$$$ if they’re going to eat it anyway.

I was joking about a contract out on Dontrelle-they’re screwed with THAT particular deal and should NEVER have signed him to begin with after a three year precititous decline.. They MIGHT get someone to eat a year of Magglio if they’re lucky.

But Miggy? No salary dump there. They want HIM gone. Why should we take on all that grief and aggravation (not to mention a huge burden of a salary? I don’t even want to have to listen to the Blog Malcontents and Misanthropes griping incessantly about his weight, his salary OR his behavior. Let’s just pass and go for a more realistic option. It isn’t Cabrera-for quite a few reasons.

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
12:00 pm

Dude has a drinking problem-why do you think Detroit wants to let him go? It is NOT just money issues

Hate to say it, but I’m gonna have to side with Lentz on this one. As long as he’s hitting .320 and OPSing 9.40, I don’t care what he does in his free time.

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
12:01 pm

klaus

November 27th, 2009
12:03 pm

Well said Braves 4 life re: Cabrera.

The Tigers need to cut payroll and stay remotely competitive. Dontrelle is worthless and Maggs is overpaid at 37 so neither will get you much if any talent in return – in both cases they will likely have to take prospects and eat salary.

Cabrera et al wil get them young and affordable ML-ready talent with Miggy bringing in the most – potentially. They can trade any of the three and stay relevant in their division assume the return is decent.

That said if you could get Holliday for 6 yrs @ $18mm per would you do that or pay over 20+mm/yr for Cabrera? Yes Miggey is 4 years younger but drinking ages you quick.

Holliday is a character guy and a very good all around player = no baggage. That plus you keep a pile of trade pieces you could use to land a 1B should you need to make that move.

Miggey at 1B and Diaz in LF is not as compelling IMHO as Holliday in LF and say Adrian G at 1B.

Ok that last one was for fun;) but financially you could sign Holliday and trade for Adrian if Cabrera is even remotely a possibility in Wren’s eyes.

Alas the world is not that fair and Liberty is not that generous. LOL.

Either combo is light years better than what we are looking at today – Nady or Johnson types at 1B and Cameron in CF with McClouth sliding over to LF. BARF!

ncgary

November 27th, 2009
12:03 pm

hope everyone had a great thanksgiving

lets hope braves find the right men to fulfill their needs. not our wants

lol

then again if we trade for halladay and sign lackey it makes lowe easier to unload

good thing i aint gm

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
12:03 pm

And not that I’ve done a lot of research on Miguel Cabrera, but I’ve only heard of him being involved in that one incident. No need to shun him because of one mistake.

But I still stand by my “he’s way too expensive” argument.

10

November 27th, 2009
12:05 pm

Miguel Cabrera is not coming to the Braves, I’m not sure why people are wasting their time discussing it. …… Efrim

No less of a waste of time than talking yourselves into all of the other mediocre options that will ensure continued mediocrity.

TnBrian

November 27th, 2009
12:08 pm

Just off the top of my head I’d think Gonzalez is more of a possibility than Cabrera because of money. Braves are rich in prospects, not in cash, but I seriously doubt either one is traded to Atlanta. I’m wondering about Cantu since cheap Florida probably won’t resign him after 2010 anyways that maybe Wren can work out a deal for him. Put him at 1st & sign Cameron & Wagner. So easy to be a GM from a computer, ain’t it?

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
12:08 pm

No less of a waste of time than talking yourselves into all of the other mediocre options that will ensure continued mediocrity.

Oh yeah, like bringing in a fat, drunk, DH-bound salary black hole in exchange for potentially useful pieces won’t do that in the future. Right.

Lew

November 27th, 2009
12:39 pm

I’m going to have to agree with TnBrian on this one. I’d rather go for Adrian Gonzalez that Cabrera any day. You might actually be able to sign Gonzalez long term for much less than $21 mil per year and I haven’t heard anything vaguely detrimental about him.

Still, I just don’t see the Braves depleting their minor league rosters for either of those players, nor do I see them spending anywhere near that kind of $$$$. Nor should they.

As for this being the only time Miggy’s been in the tank-I don’t think it is, but I’ll have to do some research before I claim that’s the case. If it HAS been multiple times, that’s definitely a warning signal flashing bright red in neon light.

Lew

November 27th, 2009
12:42 pm

I just googled Miguel Cabrera, drunk driving and came up with over 21,800 hits. Y’all, this ain’t the boy’s first offense.

Homer

November 27th, 2009
12:53 pm

O.J.

November 27th, 2009
12:54 pm

Lew, I seriously hope you were being sarcastic with that remark. Because if you actually think he has 21,800 occurrences of drunk driving then you are just plain nuts.

Lew

November 27th, 2009
1:09 pm

OJ-Somewhat literal, are we? I didn’t say anything about 21,800 separate incidents, did I? I said that’s how many hits I got by Googling what I Googled. Still and all, in my estimation, ONE is too many when you plan to pay a guy $21 million a year for the next six years after trading a good bit of your minor league system to acquire him to begin with.

Hell-one time is too many no matter what. If nothing else, his timing, that close to making the playoffs, shows a monumental lack of judgement on his part.

N8

November 27th, 2009
1:26 pm

tdmorgan, the KFC comment was over the top sarcastic. I realize it’s blasphomy on this ole’ blog, but I’m not a huge barb-Q fan. Never have been, never will be. Can tolerate some good BBQ sauce on the grill, but not a big pulled pork fan, or BBQ sandwiches or anything like that. Probably because there isn’t really any good joints around these parts to go to. Famous Dave’s is about it, and never been really impress with that place. But I’m not a huge pork fan in general.

As for the cole-slaw, I actually really like KFC’s coleslaw. But for the most part, have always been partial to vinegar based coleslaw like my grandma used to make.

My wife is a huge BBQ fan. But not me. Rather have a steak or a kick ass burger any day of the week. Or Chicken on the grill (gotta be charcoal with chicken – no propane). But never been a huge ham, bacon or pork guy. So it has more to do with that than the sauce and flavor.

Mom used to make a pretty German based pork chop dinner that was doused in onion and sour cream gravy. That’s about where the pork ends for me. But sour cream gravy could make a flat tire taste OK, so that isn’t a fair assessment.

Frank from KS (now living in CO), nice to “see” you as well. I did the facebook thing for a few months, and as soon as they changed the home page/live feed format it pissed me off, so I haven’t been on as much. Use it when my band is playing locally to let all my “friend” know, that’s about it.

Wayne in Utah

November 27th, 2009
1:35 pm

I think we might be onto another blog “ewe-famism”……. as somebody mentioned they did not want to be “miss quoting” DOB.

Or was that some Freudian slip about Dave’s masculinity?

:lol:

I would love to have Miguel Cabrera batting 4th on our team. I would NEVER give up the prospects it would take to get him, while putting a strangle hold on our team salary for the next 6 years.

It ain’t happening folks. All the arguments in the world as to why it would make sense are a waste of cyber time.

Marc in FL

November 27th, 2009
1:35 pm

I think a more realistic possibility (and still a reach in itself) would be to trade a couple prospects for Derek Lee, and I would prefer Lee cause he’s a professional and professionalism in contagious. He also makes 13mil in 2010 and is a FA opening the spot for Freeman.

Speaking of Freeman, I doubt he’s going to be any kind of superstar, I’m not opposed at all to putting him in a trade package.

jeffrey d

November 27th, 2009
1:36 pm

You’d think sometime by 15,000 DUIs he’d lose his license for good.

Travis

November 27th, 2009
1:37 pm

With Mac stepping up as the future team leader and Heyward in the wings, I think a solid veteran with “team player” mentallity is needed. Bay or Holliday really fit the bill. The cohesion of the Maddox, Glavine, McGriff, Lemke etc era needs to happen again. One more solid veteran position player would do wonders for this team. Need to make the necessary moves to make it happen. Cabrera is a liability and doesn’t deserve the best salary on the team if he can’t step up and be a team leader. It is still all about money and an extra 10 million or so in the budget from Liberty needs to happen.

N8

November 27th, 2009
1:39 pm

Only way I see Braves going for Cabrera, is if the Tigers are truly looking for salary relief, and would not demand multiple top prospects, and would eat a BIG portion of that contract. Like the Rockies and Marlins did for us on the Hampton trade.

Hampton, when traded was owed 84 million over 6 years (14 million per year), the Rockies and Marlins ate 35.5 million of that contract for the Braves, leaving the Braves to pay 48.5 milion over 6 years (8 million per year), and all they had to give up was Spooneybarger.

If the Tigers were to take Lowe off our hands, and perhaps Jo-Jo or another prospect (maybe even Schafer?) and “eat” 26 million, the Tigers would be eleviating themselves of 55 million dollars over the next 6 years, and getting D-Lowe in the process to help anchor their rotation. While the Braves would be getting their cleanup hitter, and probable replacement for Chipper at 3B in a couple years, for 16.6 million per year. Slightly more than they are paying Lowe over the next 3 years. In 3 years when Chipper’s salary comes off the books, even if Cabrera is overpaid at that time, it shouldn’t hinder the payroll too much.

While younger guys would be eligible for arbitration raises by then, Hudson would likely be gone, as would Vazquez if he is extended.

Now. Do I think the Tigers are interested in making THAT trade? But I bet nobody thought the Rockies and the Marlins would eat that much of Hampton’s contract either. Really depends on how desperate the Tigers are to dump salary or not.

Probably not. But what if it was Vazquez instead of D-lowe?

Still not sure I’d do it. But I seriously doubt that Wren makes a trade for Cabrera without the Tigers eating a huge portion of that contract.

Klaus

November 27th, 2009
1:40 pm

Cabrera is likely fixable and in the right environment he would do well. That said he has a ongoing problem that will require a firm/supportive hand and patience.

I am not sure he will find that in Detroit under Leyland. Bobby is more of a players manager than Leyland so it could work in ATL.

At 26 I am not willing to write the guy off as a DH bound player who is about to put on another 60 lbs.

He needs a strong leader and someone in the clubhouse to keep him on track. From what I have read his best friend is our own Martin Prado.

I suspect Prado, Bobby and Chipper would provide a stronger support system for Cabrera.

It is all moot b/c I cannot see Wren trading a bus load of prospects to Detroit and taking on a 126mm contract.

There is a better chance for a Holliday signing at this point.

But make no mistake Cabrera is a great player who just needs a personal life restart. In the right environment you are looking at a 40hr hitter who can drive in 125+ RBIs.

In the wrong environment he will become the bloated AA member many are calling him today.

No offense to Detroit but the city is reeling, the weather is harsh and for a kid who likely prefers warm weather and an upbeat place he is likely depressed.

Money is great but being in a place you don’t want to be wears on you after a while. If you have a drinking problem you need to avoid trigger situations.

Yes he did live in Miami but he was playing to an empty stadium in a decidedly geriatric area (apart from South Beach). So he choices were golfing with cronies or partying with hip hop guys at South Beach.

He needs a change of scenery that is neither depressing or distracting. I wish it were the Braves but Boston would be a good fit for him.

nolie

November 27th, 2009
1:41 pm

As long as he’s hitting .320 and OPSing 9.40, I don’t care what he does in his free time. Jeffrey D

maybe so, but the question isn’t whether you care, the question is whether the Braves care, and past history indicates that they probably do. and no matter all the rationalizations about affording his salary, the Braves are not gonna pay him 21mil when they have other problems that need solving too. Miggy is the current hot pickup, some will obsess over him for a few days and then we will be on to another ;)

Klaus

November 27th, 2009
1:42 pm

P.S. The Detroit fans seem great and support the team but there is no denying the city is in pain.

Lew

November 27th, 2009
1:43 pm

Marc-They won’t give up prospects for a one year rental. They’d do better offering a one year deal to a Free Agent or trading for a younger guy they have under several years of contract control. To trade prospects they could well need later for a one year player is just not in the Braves’ best interest. Does no one remember what we gave up for a Teixeira rental and the attendant bitching and moaning that’s been going on ever sinc3e? Do we really need to go through another experience of that ilk?

There have been two deals in the past couple of years that people have fussed, fumed vented and griped about interminably-the Tex trade and the Lowe signing. And this is what we’re asking for again by trading for Cabrera? Do you really want more pain in which to wallow? Masochistic morons to my way of thinking. I’m sure y’all will,find plenty to be discontented about without a deal like this to make you crazier.

Lew

November 27th, 2009
1:45 pm

Klaus-Whatever.

nolie

November 27th, 2009
1:49 pm

Braves are rich in prospects TnB

not so much right now. most of the higher rated ones are in A levels.
Those guys are of limited value in trades because no matter how promising they are, the odds of them becoming impact MLB players are very low for any number of reasons. Most teams are not gonna trade a successful player for a number of maybes at this time of year.
The only guys higher that that are Freeman and Schafer and both of them have some question marks too, making their current trade value less that it once was.
Many here have some really funky ideas about how to run a business.If the Braves were theirs, they would be broke already. ;(

N8

November 27th, 2009
1:49 pm

“From a management perspective it is far less risky to give a position player a huge multi-year contract than it is to give a pitcher one.”

You mean like Andruw Jones at the end of his contract, or Chipper if he doesn’t rebound?

I think the risk depends on the age of the player, and recent track record for production, work ethic and for showing the desire to be a “team” guy.

Chipper’s contract was not a risk at the time because of his recent track record before it. But his age and recent nagging injury history should have been tiny red flags.

Cabrera is no doubt one of the better RH hitters in all of MLB. He’s only 26, so even if he tails of after the age of 30, it’s only a couple of years. But he’s also shown a lack of discipline off the field, and at times has annoyed and rubbed teammates the wrong way.

With Bobby being on board for only one more year (since everybody says guys behave for him and work harder for him), I’m not a sure a 26 year old guy with his off the field history, isn’t a bigger risk for 6 years at that price (even if discounted by the Tigers eating some of that contract), than a 37 year old Chipper was by signing him to a 3 year extension.

It’s all relative to the players being discussed. Wren has to at least factor in Cabrera’s personal issues before even remotely thinking about make a move on him.

Tomahawk1310

November 27th, 2009
1:51 pm

Hey I was over at AtlantaBraves.com message board and someone wrote that we signed this once top prospect Eric Duncan who was drafted in the first round by the Yankees but let go recently. They said he has a stigmatism that has been corrected. This guy looks like he could be a low risk/high reward pick up, but I can’t find anything in print about it. Anyone else heard this?

10

November 27th, 2009
1:51 pm

Oh yeah, like bringing in a fat, drunk, DH-bound salary black hole in exchange for potentially useful pieces won’t do that in the future. Right.

Black hole? .947 OPS. .998 OPS. .965 OPS. .887 OPS. .942 OPS. Those are his last five seasons. No prospect we have other than Heyward has the potential to sniff an OPS within 150 points of Cabrera’s typical OPS. 10 average players are not as good as one great hitter.

10

November 27th, 2009
1:55 pm

Oh yeah, like bringing in a fat, drunk, DH-bound salary black hole in exchange for potentially useful pieces won’t do that in the future. Right.

Mature response BTW. You think they’ll let you leave the kiddie table next Thanksgiving?

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
2:02 pm

Black hole?

Salary-wise? Yes.

ncgary

November 27th, 2009
2:08 pm

anyone saw the road yet? its based on a book by cormac mccarthy same guy who wrote no country for old men and all the pretty horses.

its definitely thought provoking, and with the way the world seems to be turning now, maybe closer to reality than we will want to believe.

Marc in FL

November 27th, 2009
2:09 pm

Lew, you cling to prospects too much bro, 99% of them never amount to anything, or just have a good year or two. We’re not going to trade anyone that’s key to our future (aside from Heyward we don’t have many sure-things though).

N8

November 27th, 2009
2:09 pm

“Mature response BTW. You think they’ll let you leave the kiddie table next Thanksgiving?” 10

I fail to see what was so immature about the following comment:

“Oh yeah, like bringing in a fat…”

Cabrera is often been overweight and it might not make a difference now, but it will get worse before it gets better, and in his 30’s, he might not be available as often if he doesn’t take care of himself now.

“…drunk”

Cabrera got a DUI the night before a one game playoff (which his team lost). Maybe he’s not a full-fledged fallover drunk. But if a Braves player did that, as a fan, I’d have an issue with it, and I’m sure the Braves players and management wouldn’t like it much either.

“….DH-bound”

Again, if he doesn’t take care of himself, he’ll end up as a guy approaching 30 years old with limited range and a defensive liability. IE: DH.

“…. salary black hole”

At 21 million dollars, for a team with a 100 million dollar salary, he WOULD BE a salarly black hole. Now, as I’ve stated in one of my recent posts. If the Tigers were to eat a significant portion of that contract, bringing it down to around 16 milliond. If Lowe was moved, it would wouldn’t be anymore of a black hole than Lowe’s contract, and we’d probably see more production out of it. Barring his weight and off-field issues getting in the way.

“….in exchange for potentially useful pieces won’t do that in the future.”

I’m NOT for giving up more than 1 top prospect not named Heyward for him. So if the Tigers were to ask for Heyward, Freeman and a pitcher? Forget about it. Not interested.

Perhaps the “tone” of the response wasn’t mature in your eyes. But the points made in it were valide points/concerns in my eyes.

Just calling it like I see it.

ncgary

November 27th, 2009
2:10 pm

saw seven pounds too, thats a tear jerker. will smith has come along way from from fresh prince

N8

November 27th, 2009
2:12 pm

“10 average players are not as good as one great hitter.” 10

Maybe. Maybe not. But you’re assuming the team could afford “average” players to fill out the everyday 8 if they took on his contract.

What if the Tigers asked for Escobar? And at 21 million dollars Wren couldn’t afford anybody “average” for SS, 1B and RF if Heyward isn’t ready?

Then what? Does one great player make up for 3 average players, and 3 below average players?

Just curious.

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
2:14 pm

Not really sure what was “immature” about my post, so why don’t you take issue with what I stated instead of going straight to the personal attacks, mmk? It might make you sound more mature…

10

November 27th, 2009
2:14 pm

I’d rather go for Adrian Gonzalez that Cabrera any day. You might actually be able to sign Gonzalez long term for much less than $21 mil per year and I haven’t heard anything vaguely detrimental about him.

This is akin to saying I’d rather have so and so .850 OPS hitter from 1999 through 2004 than a 26 year old Chipper Jones from 1999 through 2004 coming off the Hooters fiasco because so and so .850 OPS player will be cheaper and lives a less reckless, partying lifestyle off the field. Gonzalez will be cheaper because he is nowhere near as good as Cabrera. Miguel Cabrera has Hall of Fame talent. Gonzalez is a solid all star who’s historically had around an .850 OPS. He had a really good OPS last year. However, no one else in his lineup scared anyone. So, they walked him alot and inflated his OBP by about 40 or 50 points. Cabrera has had around a .950 OPS year in, year out. Gonzalez will be $5 to $7 million cheaper because he’s 10 to 15 runs less valuable than Cabrera.

Tomahawk1310

November 27th, 2009
2:14 pm

So no one has heard if we signed this Duncan kid?

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
2:16 pm

I do, however, agree with that assessment on Gonzalez. Now is the time to sell (relatively) high if you’re the Pads. That said, don’t forget the park he plays in. Move him to a more hitter-friendly park and you’ll see that OPS go up on its own.

10

November 27th, 2009
2:19 pm

If you are assuming the salary budget will remain $100 million for the next six years, then maybe he is a black hole. But if you are assuming they will have no better than a $100 million payroll six years from now, this franchise is headed for a world of hurt.

Rob (from SC)

November 27th, 2009
2:23 pm

Tomahawk1310

I don’t know if we did sign him, but it would be a good under the radar signing.

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
2:25 pm

But if you are assuming they will have no better than a $100 million payroll six years from now, this franchise is headed for a world of hurt.

Maybe so. But that’s an awful big risk to take today, don’t you think, especially for a player who, otherworldly hitting ability aside, might not keep himself in good enough physical shape to merit the type of money he’ll be making in six years?

O.J.

November 27th, 2009
2:32 pm

Tomahawk, doesnt seem to be news of it anywhere.

10

November 27th, 2009
2:42 pm

Until he beheads a cat, I will assume Miguel Cabrera will not turn into a bloated waste of talent like Kevin Mitchell.

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
2:46 pm

Until he beheads a cat, I will assume Miguel Cabrera will not turn into a bloated waste of talent like Kevin Mitchell.

Agree to disagree, I guess. In the short term, I think he’ll be great, if at least offensively. In a few years, I think he’ll need to be a DH and there ain’t no DH in the NL.

tampabrave

November 27th, 2009
2:46 pm

N8, your 2:09 seems to be the best post on Cabrera yet that people don’t seem to be grasping. Good point about Lowe also. If we can at all include him in the trade (not likely because Miggy is trade bait b/c of his high salary, why would they take on another high one for him) it would be worth it. But otherwise we should stick with a reliable yet. I think Nady deserves a shot. in ‘07 he hit 20 hr’s in Pit, which, with the winds and dimensions there, is not a hitters park. Could be a low risk high reward guy at 1b for a year if LaRoche gets too pricey.

Tomahawk1310

November 27th, 2009
2:53 pm

I was asking the guy who posted it and he said he doesn’t have any info in print but that it will surface soon. I did see that the Yankees did let him go so that much is true, and I can’t see why this guy would make this up being a Giants fan so I have a good feeling it’s true. This would be a smart pick up by us.

P. W. Hjort

November 27th, 2009
2:58 pm

You know what the Braves need to do? Improve the damn defense.

I feel like this gets overlooked, but they were are really poor defensive club last year.

O.J.

November 27th, 2009
3:02 pm

Not sure why everyone thinks this Duncan guy would be a good pick up. has anyone looked at his minor league numbers? Nothing to write home about, thats for sure.

UNCBrave

November 27th, 2009
3:03 pm

Why not TRADE SP Derek Lowe for Miguel Cabrera?

That lets each team get rid of salary and the Braves have +5 million with Cabrera’s salary.

That solves your 1B problem. With LaRoche’s 1B salary of $8 million off the books that would leave the Braves cutting basically $3 million off their payroll

O.J.

November 27th, 2009
3:04 pm

UNCBrave, really????? We are going down that road again? It has been discussed over and over and over again and it isnt happening. So please stop wasting blog space with the useless suggestions.

sidslidkid

November 27th, 2009
3:08 pm

Auburn is looking good. Bama better step it up.

Tomas

November 27th, 2009
3:09 pm

P.W. Hjort, the defense wasn’t that bad. I mean chipper was a huge hole at 3B, and the Outfield was pretty useless after Frenchy was traded(with the exception of Mclouth). If Heyward gets the call up, then the outfield isn’t a problem anymore, because Diaz goes back to LF where he definitely feels more comfortable. Prado is a decent 2B, Yunel improved a lot and was awesome in the second half, and McCann was a very capable receiver who improved his throwing.

Basically they just need to add a 1B, improve the bench, and add a veteran closer a.k.a. Billy Wagner.

Tomahawk1310

November 27th, 2009
3:18 pm

O.J. – Duncan was a first round pick but he has struggled due to astigmatism which has been corrected. In baseball an eye problem is huge and if healthy this could be a great low risk pick up. Get it now.

O.J.

November 27th, 2009
3:26 pm

Still nothing to be overtly excited about Tomahawk.

Tomahawk1310

November 27th, 2009
3:34 pm

I didn’t realize I was proclaiming him as the next Chipper, I was just trying to find out if anyone else heard about this and it COULD be a low risk/high reward pick up. Maybe you have something more exciting to report?

Coach (2011 or Bust)

November 27th, 2009
3:58 pm

The Braves defense was awful this season, enough said.

About Miguel Cabrera. IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN, EVER. He’s got six years and 126 million left on his current contract. The Braves have never and never will award anybody more than five years of contract money, and only if your name is Greg Maddux.

As for the Detroit Tigers, they are and have been losing money since 1993 but the last year has really been bad:

http://blog.mlive.com/cutoffman/2009/04/forbes_detroit_tigers_are_blee.html

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
4:02 pm

PWH–yeah, the defense was pretty bad. Gotta get on that, I agree. Hopefully Heyward will (in part) shore up the OF defense this year, and hopefully we can get Schafer on track as well. Either way, we do need to find a good defender at 1B, as we’ve been spoiled with Tex and CK the last couple of years…

Salamander

November 27th, 2009
4:08 pm

Hell-one time is too many no matter what. If nothing else, his [Miguel Cabrera's] timing, that close to making the playoffs, shows a monumental lack of judgement on his part.

Maybe so Lew, but there is no way of knowing what a change of scenery would do for the dude. Maybe nothing at all, maybe it would make him drink even more, or perhaps he would get his sh!t sorted out and grow up a bit.

That being said, Cabrera is way too expensive to even consider trading for. I don’t like all those years of high salary with his frame. Looks like a balky knee waiting to happen. I prefer the mediocre options being thrown around (Dye, Cameron, Cantu, etc) to the overweight contract of this particular slugger from Detroit.

Of course, Adrian Gonzalez would be the best fit of all, but let’s not get carried away. I don’t even want to speculate about his extravagant, prospect-laden price tag.

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
4:11 pm

Although if we can finagle a trade for a good hitting 1B and/or trade Lowe for some prospects or something, I like the idea of signing Mike Cameron to a 1-year deal and shifting McLouth to left. Add a good-not-great bat, a better CF glove, a decent enough baserunner, and by moving Nate to left, add a plus defender there. He ain’t the bat our team needs, but (like I said) if we can get some pop at 1B, he makes a great all-around secondary addition, no?

Or is this just DAP talking? LOL!

Steve from OH

November 27th, 2009
4:15 pm

Should’ve just been “and,” not “and/or”….

Coach (2011 or Bust)

November 27th, 2009
4:21 pm

I’m on board with Mike Cameron.

Lew

November 27th, 2009
4:22 pm

Don’t even hand me some crap about change of scenery. Dude has already been in Florida and in Detroit and nothing has changed. Atlanta isn’t going to be the magic place where he gets his sh!t together. This deal isn’t going to happen. It shouldn’t happen and it won’t for several reasons.

This is good, because y’all already bitch and moan about anything that doesn’t go quite right or any contract you think hamstrings the Braves. Any deal involving Miguel Cabrera will do nothing more than give plenty of reason to gripe and it would hamstring the Braves payroll even if it DOES increase somewhat in the next several years. We need to extend Jurrjens soon, Escobar, in all likelihood and Hanson in several more years-then probably something will need to be done longer term with Heyward. A $21 million salary for six years would prevent a good bit of this from being possible.

ugaaccountant

November 27th, 2009
5:09 pm

Lew – When we were a good team we had MVP candidate Terry Pendelton, then Fred McGriff, then Andres Galaraga along with our other homegrown stars. We aren’t going to make any noise whatsoever if our offseason goes:
Gonzalez/Soriano gone, wagner in
Laroche gone, Konerko in
Anderson/Church/KJ gone, Dye in

That is moving backwards and will leave us out of the playoffs again. I’m sure Frank is aware of this, so no matter how much you want to extend Heyward today, he has far more pressing issues.

richbrave

November 27th, 2009
5:28 pm

SO-o-o DAVE, how was PARKERS???? Hummm, inquiring minds want to know.

Couch Tater

November 27th, 2009
6:04 pm

Where’s whiskey?

Efrim

November 27th, 2009
6:35 pm

Although if we can finagle a trade for a good hitting 1B and/or trade Lowe for some prospects or something, I like the idea of signing Mike Cameron to a 1-year deal and shifting McLouth to left.

That’s an option I’m down with as well. It still be pretty nice to find a big bat for first AND add Mike Cameron. Can’t wait for Tuesday when we hear all of the arb. offers being announced. Hot Stove season should start to take shape then.

Efrim

November 27th, 2009
6:50 pm

Sounds like the Marlins are willing to trade Johnson in the right deal. I think he is a free agent after 2011. Great news for the Bravos if he is dealt out of division, but that could hurt the options for a Lowe deal.

TnBrian

November 27th, 2009
7:00 pm

I’m not willing to say that Wren wouldn’t trade for Gonzalez because I don’t think he’d trade Freeman plus who knows what else to get the guy, but I think I can say both JJ & Hanson are staying put from just about everything I’ve read on this team. I just like to think that it’s very possible he could be our cleanup hitter for the next few year & maybe more because that’s what I like to think. How ’bout nobody say this guy or that guy is out of the question & bash people for suggesting them. Now, Cabrera seems like a very long shot for so many reasons, but the Pirates had just upped McLouth on a new contract then turned around & traded him right after, so anything is possible. Of course he’s not getting $16-18m a year like Cabrera either, but almost all the doors are open right now for Wren.

Tomas

November 27th, 2009
7:27 pm

John Lackey, Roy Halladay, Josh Johnson, and Derek Lowe. Tough anyone would look to acquire Lowe…..

Mailman

November 27th, 2009
7:37 pm

Coach how come your not on braves journal anymore?

Wake up people

November 27th, 2009
7:40 pm

John Lackey
Roy Halladay
Josh Johnson
Joel Pineiro
Randy Wolf
Eric Bedard
Ben Sheets
Rich Harden
Derek Lowe

Angels, Red Sox, Yankees, Brewers are the only suitors that can handle Lowe’s contract.

Greg Olson Homers

November 27th, 2009
7:43 pm

Would it be possible to just trade Lowe to a team for nothing (bag of balls)? Would the Braves do that? That $45 million could be used elsewhere and its not like we gave anything up to get him as a FA.

ugaaccountant

November 27th, 2009
7:55 pm

yes Greg Olson Homers, we could easily trade Lowe for a bag of balls. The people who say otherwise are chicken little types.

Keeper

November 27th, 2009
8:23 pm

richbrave, you see the Spiders just knocked off Missy State? Hopefully the good vibes will carry over to the football field …

Venice Jim

November 27th, 2009
8:31 pm

Good luck tomorrow, Keeper!

Keeper

November 27th, 2009
8:44 pm

Same to your Tribe, VJ! Here’s to an all-CAA final four!

David O'Brien

November 27th, 2009
8:48 pm

Maybe so Lew, but there is no way of knowing what a change of scenery would do for the dude. Maybe nothing at all, maybe it would make him drink even more, or perhaps he would get his sh!t sorted out and grow up a bit. — Salamander

And if he doesn’t get it together, well, you only owe him about $120 mill over the next six years, right? Just $20-22 mill per season, and more than one-fifth of the payroll next year. No worries.

Keeper

November 27th, 2009
8:50 pm

(or maybe three of four – forgot that three of the CAA teams are on one side of the bracket)

RHR

November 27th, 2009
9:26 pm

Just checking in on the Bama alum to see if they all survived. Good thing Tater was asking for the whiskey early. LOL. Last years 36-0 was much easier on the nerves. My heart was jumping out of my chest in the last couple minutes of that one. Hats off to Gene Cheezit…he came, he saw, and he damn near conquered. REHIRE TUBS. :lol:

Steve

November 27th, 2009
9:47 pm

Just think, if you had that guy’s schedule, how much time it’d give you to indulge in the finer things in life. Like Taco Bell.

DOB dislikes Taco Bell?

nolie

November 27th, 2009
10:10 pm

DOB dislikes Taco Bell?

who can blame hi?

nolie

November 27th, 2009
10:11 pm

DiamondbackMac

November 27th, 2009
11:19 pm

MORONS, ABSOLUTE MORONS

I read the blog often and contribute seldom. I’ve seldom seen such idiocy here. Some of you actually want to sign an overpriced drunken wife beater in the hope that a change of scenery will make a change in him. Wake up!

Steve

November 27th, 2009
11:31 pm

Who’s an “overpriced drunken wife beater”?

(And no Cox jokes)

chip off the ol block

November 27th, 2009
11:42 pm

RHR thanks for the props… we just about did it, im a big ol Auburn fan and it was a tough day but its alright

TnBrian

November 27th, 2009
11:53 pm

DiamondbackMac, morons huh? Why, because it’s been written for a few days now that the Tigers might trade Cabrera & some people are throwing around ideas for what it might take to get him in Atlanta? No, that’s not being moronic. It’s a blog & that’s what it’s for. Like people are getting paid big bucks around here to write credible columns or something, lol. That’s DOB’s job & that’s why we take him serious.

No, Cabrera more than likely doesn’t come to the Braves for more than one reason, but people aren’t being moronic suggesting it. It’s a boring time of year for die hard baseball fans, so there.

jeffrey d

November 28th, 2009
12:10 am

Who’s an “overpriced drunken wife beater”?

(And no Cox jokes)

Cox isn’t overpriced

jeffrey d

November 28th, 2009
12:15 am

I like how DOB dropped in twice today, both times to make fun of someone in sarcastic fashion (I was one of them)

David O'Brien

November 28th, 2009
12:27 am

Jeffrey D: Sorry about that. That wasn’t nice of me to drop in only to be sarcastic.

No BBQ today, but not such a bad thing since the only reason there was no BBQ was that we were overstuffed from a second day of Southern Thanksgiving gluttony. Mom cooked yesterday, and today we drove over to Oxford and my aunt cooked up a feast as only she can. I mean, this woman is a seriously great cook, has been as long as I can remember.

From the ham and turkey to the corn pudding, stuffing, collards and fried cornbread (oh, her fried cornbread is sublime), it was all outstanding. And lots of sweet tea. And pumpkin-pie crunch, and … OK, I’ll stop. We ate while watching the Iron Bowl, then drove back to Wilson.

Just watched Tyson, that documentary on Mike Tyson that came out earlier this year. Disturbing but quite good.

Gonna drive over to Greenville tomorrow, see the old neighborhood, then eat at Bill’s here in Wilson, and also buy a pound of Parker’s BBQ to take home Sunday.

Hope everybody’s had a good holiday.

Oh, and my parents’ cat weighs 25 pounds. He might be the fattest cat I’ve seen. But he’s happy, 12 years old, and apparently healthy, says the vet.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 28th, 2009
12:29 am

John Lackey
Roy Halladay
Josh Johnson
Joel Pineiro
Randy Wolf
Eric Bedard
Ben Sheets
Rich Harden
Derek Lowe

Roy Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball, hands down. Ok?

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 28th, 2009
12:31 am

(oh, her friend cornbread is to die for) – DOB

What an unusual name, cornbread. I’m sure (s)he is “to die for” with a name like that.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
12:45 am

funny thing i have not one person pick georgia.

myself included i think tech is the better coached team.

note: i said tech is better coached.

we got the better athletes.

never hated tech growing up always considered them not relaevant.

still do. tech is not our rival. though they do.

unless the dawgs do something way out of their character we will probably be bested.

though for all you tech guys, you aint in the sec.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 28th, 2009
12:51 am

Scenario:

Red Sox trade for Halladay.
Yankees (as a result) aggressively pursue John Lackey.
Angels, stuck in pitching rotation shamble, listen to Braves about Derek Lowe.
Frank Wren, working his “GM Genius” (© 2009), trades Lowe.

Remember, worst case scenario, we go into the season with a rotation of:
1. Jurrjens
2. Hanson
3. Vasquez
4. Hudson
5. Lowe

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
12:53 am

been to at least 8 games at bobby dodd or grant field not sure what they are calling it these days, other then the fact they are sending out season ticket invitations just to about everybody not named bin-laden.

carney johnson

November 28th, 2009
12:53 am

well, jurrjens, ‘cornbread’ is as common a nickname in north carolina as bubba is in georgia. remember cornbread maxwell, the basketball player from unc-charlotte?

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 28th, 2009
1:01 am

‘cornbread’ is as common a nickname in north carolina as bubba is in georgia

remember cornbread maxwell, the basketball player from unc-charlotte?

… no.

carney johnson

November 28th, 2009
1:02 am

i definitely believe we’ll be able to move d. lowe. we may have to eat 2 mil / per on his contract, but if so, we’ll get some good prospects back in return. it’ll happen though.

carney johnson

November 28th, 2009
1:03 am

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 28th, 2009
1:05 am

carney johnson,

Ohhhhhh. CORNbread Maxwell…

…Thats really racist.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:07 am

carney johnson,

eat 2 mill.

so who would take him?

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:08 am

so hudson who might be a better pitcher just signed for a fraction of lowe’s contract.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:10 am

lowe’s whip was pretty bad last season, no doubt. still like his makeup though.

carney johnson

November 28th, 2009
1:17 am

from the “diary of a cracker” blog: In the 40-plus years of living in the South, I have met a lot of guys called “Bubba”. It’s a bit more common nickname than people realize. Even President Clinton was a “Bubba”. For a lot of people these days, hearing about someone having the name “Bubba” is an indication the name holder is to be considered somewhat of a “redneck, good old Southern boy”. But do these people know that the state of North Carolina has its own commonly-held, uniquely indigenous nickname? In North Carolina, the name “Cornbread” is not an anomaly, and whereas most “Bubbas” are “good old boys,” the name “Cornbread” is found across racial lines. As a matter of fact, I’ve met several Latino immigrants to the state who have named their child “Cornbread” as a sign of their allegiance to their new homeland. Outside of Charlotte, I met not only a “Cornbread Lopez,” but a “Cornbread Rodriguez” as well. Interestingly enough, the “Cornbread Rodriguez” I met was a young girl of 2.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:20 am

best thing about this season we will be francoeur free.

there is a outside shot francoeur might turn into jason werth minus the speed.

serious, tall hitters take time.

my point is the front office is not going to depend on him or kelly this offseason.

kelly and jeff did us no favors early in the season.

funny thing tough superstar hit the first pitch he saw this season out of the ballpark.

nolie

November 28th, 2009
1:22 am

First post seems to have gotten lost.

Will McGriff or Galarraga make it this year? Ever?

carney johnson

November 28th, 2009
1:25 am

cant say which team in particular will take him, but as we get closer to the season, some team that thinks they have a shot at winning is gonna be looking for an innings-eater who could win 17 games and post a 3.5 era. they’ll see 2009 as an off-year for lowe and figure that he is a decent bet for rebounding next year. and for $13 mil, that’s not a bad deal. wouldnt the dodgers have loved to have had him going into the playoffs last year?

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:25 am

nolie,

crime dog should.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:27 am

lowe looked pretty bad late last season.

he does not miss bats and has a propensity to walk people.

carney johnson

November 28th, 2009
1:30 am

and if we end up stuck with lowe, the worst thing about it would be that it’d probably mean wren would trade vazquez. i dont mind lowe at all. i think he’ll put up solid numbers next year. (solid numbers for a 2 starter.) i’d prefer not to lose vazquez though–would like to see wren sign JV to a 2 year extension.

carney johnson

November 28th, 2009
1:33 am

uga–agreed about johnson and francouer. they wont be bogging down the offense this year, and that’ll make a huge difference.

nolie

November 28th, 2009
1:37 am

crime dog should. Uga

you think first year?
I think McGriff and Martinez are kinda borderline but might eventually get in. I think Alomar and Larkin are sure to get in, but maybe only one of them the first try. I doubt Galarraga ever gets in, nor any of the other newbies this year.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 28th, 2009
1:41 am

Is Xavier Nady pronounced X – sAv – V – IER or like Javier?

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:42 am

lowe’s contract is almost, who do you say stuck with it.

kawkami is more tradeable. dont see either being able to bring much.

keep vazquez , say it again keep vazquez.

would rather have him, jjj, tommy, and hudson, then a marginal outfielder

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 28th, 2009
1:43 am

I believe this is Murphy’s last chance to get in, I’ll be pissed if he doesn’t!

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:45 am

nolie,

roberto alomar has a shot. best second bagger in his generation.

not a first round guy though. neither is crime dog.

carney johnson

November 28th, 2009
1:49 am

kk’s real tradeable, but i think he’s gonna have a great 2010, and with his contract, youre gonna want to keep him. lowe will happen. teams are always looking for pitching and there arent too many good ones available this off-season. it’ll mostly be a salary dump but that’s fine, as it frees up money for a bat.

nolie

November 28th, 2009
1:50 am

The interesting thing over the next few years will be if E Martinez gets in. Probably the best DH ever, does he make it sometime? How ’bout Larkin. I think Larkin is fairly solid to get in at some time.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:51 am

dale murphy does not get in.

398 dingers. right or wrong he does not get in.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:53 am

carney,

who wants to pick up that contact?

three more years?

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:56 am

nolie,

with you on edgar martinez. he was a pro.

professional hitter.

but we get into the soup when we talk about designated hitters.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
1:58 am

nolie,

that means frank thomas is a automatic.

nolie

November 28th, 2009
2:01 am

that means frank thomas is a automatic.

I think frank is an automatic as long as he isn’t linked to PEDs b4 he is eligible. Great great hitter.The 4 I mentioned are eligible this season, Frank obviously is not.

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
2:03 am

i dont think larkin is.

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 28th, 2009
2:08 am

I’m trying to find out where Jason Grilli is playing…

nolie

November 28th, 2009
2:12 am

I’m not so sure anybody will bet in this year. Maybe Dawson. or Blyleven, Alomar has best chance of the newbies in first year

uga-brave

November 28th, 2009
2:36 am

dawgs dawgs, then again if joe cox does joe cox. tech.

RHR

November 28th, 2009
3:07 am

I’m with you uga, but I know a lot of UGA folks who hate tech with a passion. What I hate about them most is how they act like they are the smartest students from the smartest university ever established on planet earth. get out of my face with that.

speaking of smart…lol … uh… who believes that wreck story tiger is trying to sell? not i said the uga/bama/lsus alum. his wife whopped his ass. :lol:

RHR

November 28th, 2009
3:11 am

joe cox is disaster. but you know what..he’s better than greg mcelroy. how is bama 12-0 with that guy leading the offense? i hate the gators. he better grow a set before next saturday…cant stand the thoughts of the gators in it again. no matter what, our lord and savior tim tebow is only playing 2 more CFB games. thank the gods for that.

Wayne in Utah

November 28th, 2009
3:18 am

Emergency message to David O’Brien!!!!

Attention Please!!!!

WHY STOP AT JUST ONE POUND OF BBQ??????

Come on man, get 5-10 lbs of the stuff. Won’t it freeze??? Look at the opportunity presenting itself to you. If I had your cell phone number, I would text you an emergency message.

(still trying to figure out how to get some Q and Zaxby’s chicken freighted out to Utah!)

Have a safe trip back home Dave!

:twisted:

Wayne in Utah

November 28th, 2009
3:24 am

I know you Georgians are anxiously awaiting the Bulldogs and Yellow Jackets contest, but we Carolinians are thinking nothing but the Tigers and the Gamecocks. (and my neighbors are waiting on the Utes and Cougars)

Tomorrow should be a fine day for watching some college football. Going to go catch the Jazz against the Trail Blazers tomorrow night too. A good day all around, fore shure!

Couch Tater

November 28th, 2009
3:27 am

RHR,

The difference is the number of interceptions. (Cox 14/McElroy 4)

Couch Tater

November 28th, 2009
4:18 am

DOB

Nice of the cat to let you stay at his place. I had to lay off the collards, so I could watch the Iron Bowl. You may consider that before you make the drive back to ATL. hee, hee

TommyP

November 28th, 2009
8:19 am

New blog has to be coming and I smell some Miggy-Pop as the subject. Good grief.

For the pro-Cabrera crowd, let’s just set aside the $21 million average salary for the next 6 years he’s owed. (which the Braves would not deal for but I digress….) In Florida, teammates, coaches and front office personnel accused him of playing disinterested at times. Not at the plate, obviously, but on the basepaths and in the field.

Now in Detroit, he has had several run-ins with the law. For those saying it’s just one incident (yeah, THAT’S why the Tigers are wanting to unload him…for one isolated incident), go to this link for the story and 911 call from his wife:
http://www.freep.com/article/20091005/SPORTS02/91005041/1319/

Now read below from same article:
Saturday’s incident is the second situation since August involving police, Cabrera and the Townsend, according to investigators. Birmingham Police officers responded to the Rugby Grille at 6:30 p.m. Aug. 31 after another patron said Cabrera threatened that he had a gun. According to police reports, the Birmingham man and a friend said hello to Cabrera, who responded with, “What’s up, big boy? You need to work out.”

When the Birmingham man asked Cabrera to not say that and leave him alone, Cabrera started to “rant and rave,” saying “Let’s go, right now,” “I’ll fight you both,” and “Let’s go outside, I have a Land Rover and I’ll get my ‘click clack,’” motioning the racking of a handgun, according to investigators.

C’mon, people. Quit with the Cabrera dreams. It doesn’t make sense for the Braves. Enough.

O.J.

November 28th, 2009
9:16 am

TommyP, you are barking up the wrong tree dude, I have been saying that for days, that it doesnt make any sense for the Braves to even attempt to bring in Cabrera. These people that want it to happen just dont get why it wont.

Lew

November 28th, 2009
9:25 am

But WTF, Dude only needs a change of scenery, right?

keylargo

November 28th, 2009
9:31 am

Tommy P – Those rantings from Cabrera were heard earlier here in S. Florida. From the fight with Scott Olsen in the dugout, to the bully threatening teammates, to the drinking episodes off the field, to the out of shape fat slob showing up for Spring Training, they are now showing up in Detroit – only worse.

And like a drunk I knew who, after uncountable years of bad drunken behavior, descibed himself. It just kept getting worser and worser and worser until I finally quit drinking .

Things will continue to get “worser” for Miguel Cabrera until he puts the alcohol on the shelf – permanently. Maybe a couple of years after that happens……………………

Rock On........

November 28th, 2009
9:54 am

UGA-Brave……it is known as Bobby Dodd Stadium at Historic Grant Field. Oldest field in continuous use in D1 or FBS. Does justice to the 4 national titles and honors The Coach. Just clarifying for you. Now if they can just cut back on the videos there.

F. Wren

November 28th, 2009
10:27 am

it is known as Bobby Dodd Stadium at Historic Grant Field. Oldest field in continuous use in D1 or FBS RockOn

Just your usual WRONG stuff Rock Head I guess you are going to say something like “yeah, but they played on the field before the stadium was there”.

The NCAA deems Franklin Field (33rd Street at South Street, Philadelphia, Web site), which has staged University of Pennsylvania sports since 1895, as its oldest football stadium. The facility is believed to have hosted the most football games by any one collegiate team – No. 800 for Penn is slated Saturday versus Dartmouth – although the NCAA does not keep official records in this category.

Harvard Stadium (95 N. Harvard St., Allston, Mass., Web site), opened in 1903, is the oldest permanent concrete structure in the country.

The Yale Bowl (276 Derby Ave., West Haven, Conn., Web site) hosted its first tilt, against Harvard, on Nov. 21, 1914.

Together they represent three of the four oldest Division I stadiums in the country; Bobby Dodd Stadium at Georgia Tech opened in 1913. Tony Guadagnoli

10

November 28th, 2009
10:38 am

Penn, Harvard, and Yale don’t play in Division I. They play in I-AA, which is technically Division I, but not really. Rock On was talking about Bobby Dodd as it related to the football division that matters, NCAA Division I-A, now known as the FBS division for who knows what stupid needless name change reason. Who cares what Penn, Harvard, and Yale do on a football field anyway? Their football players are as inept as the politicians those schools graduate.

Vol_In_Ohio

November 28th, 2009
10:42 am

I read that Brandon Phillips is on the market with a remaining contract of 2 years and ~$19MM. Power, speed, and fire.

Lew

November 28th, 2009
10:44 am

And Brandon Phillips plays a position we have covered for about $9 mil per year less $$$$.

Efrim

November 28th, 2009
10:53 am

Power, speed, and fire.

He’s not as good a hitter as you think. Besides, Prado is our second baseman making quite a bit less. I would put Phillips on the market if I were the Reds too, though.

Lew

November 28th, 2009
10:57 am

Brandon Phillips-.276BA, .329OBP, .447 SLG%–.30 2B, 20 HR in 644PA-988 Fldg%- 2010 salary $6.75 million

Martin Prado-.307BA, .358OBP, .464SLG%-382B, 11HR in 503 PA- -.986 Fldg%- 2010 salary, $500,000

Who gives you much more bang for the buck? Might this be important on a team with payroll limits like the Braves have? Ya Think?

TnBrian

November 28th, 2009
11:01 am

Lew, yeah, but you could easily move Prado to 1st & have Phillips at 2nd. Prado looked fine over there to me this season. Not great, but I’m sure he’s the type that would work at his game if given the time. Phillips would be a good one to have, for sure.

Efrim

November 28th, 2009
11:04 am

but you could easily move Prado to 1st & have Phillips at 2nd.

But why would we want a second baseman playing first? You need more offense from your first baseman than Prado can provide.

jeffrey d

November 28th, 2009
11:07 am

What I hate about them most is how they act like they are the smartest students from the smartest university ever established on planet earth. get out of my face with that.

I hate how UGA has owned Tech for about 20 years. Tech is 2-7 against Georgia this decade. They win once and you’d think they owned the world.

Lew

November 28th, 2009
11:47 am

TnBrian-Moving Prado to first base is absurd. The Dude can fill in there, but really isn’t all that defensively. Time to face facts and go for a player that might actually make you stronger both offensively and defensively. This ridiculous practice of playing musical positions just is NOT the way you do things. Utility players are for emergency purposes. They are good players that you absolutely need on a team. However, a player benefits from having a specific duty. Leave Prado alone except for occasional use at other positions when really needed. And only then.