12:36 am November 24, 2009, by David O'Brien
November 25th, 200911:25 am
Wells pitched a perfect game hung over, Mantle and the 50’s yanks partied until the wee hours, and Ruth’s exploits are legendary. Cabrera does do some stupid things, however, I could over look them if he hit in the mid 300’s and knocked 30+ homeruns, 100 + rbis, and scored 100 runs.
I think Jon Daly had a Hooter’s incident
November 25th, 200911:28 am
Jeffrey d – don’t short the man. It was his magical first 34 PA. 34 PA that taught us to rethink the way the game was played. David Eckstein wears Brooks Conrad pajamas.
One day Lew will open his eyes and realize that Conrad is a poor man’s David Wright.
18 Wheels of Love
November 25th, 200911:30 am
John Daly is a walking Hooters incident.
What’s funny is that there is now an offical drink named after Daly. You know how a sweet tea and lemonade is called an ‘Arnold Palmer’? Well, there is a fairly new sweet tea vodka out called Firefly and they have a drink that is sweet tea vodka and lemonade called a John Daly. Immortalized!
November 25th, 200911:31 am
Me? I’ve always been more concerned with things like Frenchy’s ‘can’t take the hometown pressure’ incident and KJ’s ‘can’t hit the broad side of a barn’ incidents, and Greg Norton’s ‘brought in to ph with the game on the line’ incidents, and Lowe and KK’s ‘can’t pitch more than 4 innings’ incidents…..you know, stuff that effects me as a fan.
November 25th, 200911:32 am
Billy Walsh, would you overlook it if Cabrera got liquored up and made fun of your obese son to his face? I love to party…love it, but you have to look at the whole picture. Sure Wells pitched a perfect game hungover, but it wasn’t a playoff game. Homeboy’s character and decision making is highly suspect.
November 25th, 200911:37 am
Thankful to the blog for Braves fun year ’round!
Ken Rosenthal posted a column on potential arbitration offers:
He thinks the Braves will offer to both Soriano and Gonzo:
Rafael Soriano, right-handed reliever; Mike Gonzalez, left-handed reliever. YES.
One agent speculated that the Braves would offer Gonzalez arbitration but not Soriano, adding, “they should offer both.”
Gonzalez is coming off a lower salary — $3.45 million to Soriano’s $6.1 million — but both pitchers figure to be in demand on the open market. The Yankees and Red Sox are among the teams believed to have interest.
Thus, the Braves would appear to have little to lose by offering both arbitration. They could end up with two quality relievers on one-year deals — or as many as four high picks.
November 25th, 200911:39 am
RHR,you are correct in that we have some people on the blog who feel the right to be the moral judges,me I live in a glass house and have enough issues of my own. I don’t really care who we get if they produce,I think Braves management is responsible to decide if a player fits the moral standards.
November 25th, 200911:41 am
Yeah, what happens off the field doesn’t matter a lick.
November 25th, 200911:42 am
Especially if it’s on the subway.
November 25th, 200911:44 am
Or when you’re trying to sleep in your car.
Lew @ 9:15,
wouldnt he then fit right in with the braves? mainly chipper and bobby?
just joking around a bit on this thanksgiving eve!
November 25th, 200911:57 am
Offering arb is not a true risk, even if accepted. Arb-based salaries (contracts) are NOT guaranteed. Teams can essentially just cut them with minimal damage – other than the loss of the player without compensation.
November 25th, 200912:00 pm
Hey Scott Spezio, I agree.
November 25th, 200912:01 pm
and idiot Teams can essentially just cut them with minimal damage
actually its pretty tuff to do that. in the case of soriano and gonzo, youd have to prove you have 7 bullpen pitchers better than them. with laroche, youd have to prove you have a first baseman better than he is. you cant just cut a guy no questions asked, and not pay him.
November 25th, 200912:02 pm
Too many people care about what athletes do behind the scenes. OWWW, that needle pricked a bit too much.
November 25th, 200912:04 pm
Mark, Mark– me and you ought to right a book on our days in Oakland. Boy was that some pill poppin, needle driving good times….
but i would say that gonzo, soriano and laroche should all be offered arbitration. they wont all accept, thats for sure, and if one of them does, its not a big deal, i dont think. even though it would be ruff to have to pay soriano $9mil or whatever he might get, it would only be for one year and we are getting maybe the best reliever on the market. ditto for laroche, and we would be lucky for gonzalez to accept, which he definitely will not. i think there is very little chance any of them accepts.
I am pretty sure you are on thehook for 1/6 of salary and then, ifyou don’t cut by last day of spring training, you are guaranteed on the whole (I remember it coming up with Varitek last year as a reason he supposedly did not accept arb).
For that reason, I recommend offering arb to Church and KJ.
November 25th, 200912:06 pm
You know my engli?? not vady goo? but I had good ti?? in ‘98 with Mark. We shared many dru…. i mean good record setting memories.
OK, so you have to “invent” a non-budgetary excuse and file it under “Baseball Decision”. But it happens.
November 25th, 200912:08 pm
Wow, we’re being visited by a lot of stars today
November 25th, 200912:09 pm
sorry and idiot, it doesnt work that way. but id agree that it not much of a risk for the braves to offer arbitration to laroche, gonzo, and soriano.
And Wren referenced the idea recently when questioned about offering arbitration.
i think there is very little chance any of them accepts.
I think LaRoche might accept. I think there is very little chance Soriano does, and no chance Gonzo does.
November 25th, 200912:14 pm
efrim I think LaRoche might accept. I think there is very little chance Soriano does, and no chance Gonzo does.
id say the same thing, but still think laroche is in the “very little chance” category, but would it really be bad if laroche accepts? that could actually be a good thing, i think. ditto if we can bring back one of our big two relievers for one years. in my opinion, it would be a bad thing if we get laorche and soriano on arbitration contracts.
November 25th, 200912:15 pm
Speaking for us 20 some year olds and saying you do not remember Dye does not speak for all of us. I remember him specifically making an impact immediately with Andruw Jones. That offseason I do remember the Braves made a decision on which of the two to hold on to and which to trade for other needs. Dye was the one to go, apparently a good choice to hold on to the young 19 year old Andruw Jones.
November 25th, 200912:16 pm
“For that reason, I recommend offering arb to Church and KJ.”
The only thing with those two is that they are not free agents, but ARE arb-eligible. The Braves can either non-tender them, trade them, or negotiate salary with them, or sign and trade them. It’s not the same. The reasoning behind not going to arb with either of them is that the Braves might feel they can get a comparable player to fill a comparable role for much less money. Right now, Church is either a platoon possibility for the OF, or a back-up, while Kelly is pretty much a back-up/injury contingency. Combine their two salaries, and you might be able to get a pretty significant player.
November 25th, 200912:17 pm
Not to mention Tucker and Keith Lockhart, which we received in return for the Dye trade were very serviceable for the Braves during their tenure albeit not quite hitters like Dye.
November 25th, 200912:19 pm
If the Braves can clear Lowe’s salary, then it wouldn’t be the end of the world if LaRoche and Soriano have one-year arbitration figures. If they don’t clear Lowe, then Wren will be handcuffed with trying to find a decent bat.
There’s so many variables this year, everything is dependent on everything else. Should be fun next week when the chips start falling.
November 25th, 200912:21 pm
Did someone just say Keith Lockhart was serviceable? I need to find something to break.
November 25th, 200912:23 pm
Ol’ Michael “Everybody hold on while I put in my eyedrops” Tucker
November 25th, 200912:26 pm
Wow…I just checked the highest rated vents for the past year. Here’s the winner (by far)
Which Braves front-office genius sent a .344 hitter (Conrad) back to the minors and kept the .111 hitter (Norton)?
It had 301 votes compared to the next highest of 192
November 25th, 200912:27 pm
“Homeboy’s character and decision making is highly suspect.” Thrillhouse44
Thrillhouse44, you stated the above about Cabrera. Let me start off by saying that unless the Tigers eat a ton of his contract (as in how much the Rockies and Marlins ate of Hampton’s or the Red Sox of Renteria’s), I don’t think he’s a match because of the money.
That being said, I thought Bobby Cox was supposed to be this incredible manager of men, that keeps that kind of crap in check? Nobody would ever disrespect Bobby and the Braves that way, would they?
November 25th, 200912:28 pm
DAP & Efrim
Accepting arbitration would probably be the best way to keep LaRoche without blocking Freeman’s future. If he’s going to break away from his established history of slow starts, I think it’s more likely to happen in Atlanta at this stage in his career. Wouldn’t that be great!?!?!
The problem with offering arbitration to KJ and Church is two-fold. The contract that gets settled on will certainly be higher than a typical reserve would get, and that money would be better spent elsewhere. That in turn makes it nearly impossible to trade them, unless another team thinks a potential .230 hitter is worth $5 million (just guessing on KJ’s figure). Remember Marcus Giles a few years back, same situation. They ended up non-tendering him. I don’t see how they can risk it this time, unless they whiff on adding another outfielder and need KJ or Church as a fall-back.
November 25th, 200912:39 pm
I thought vents were supposed to be somewhat funny?
November 25th, 200912:46 pm
that could actually be a good thing, i think
I agree, there really isn’t any risk in him accepting. If all three were to accept, then we’d be paying Laroche around 9-10, Soriano 8-9 and Gonzo 5-6. But like I said, I don’t expect the two relievers to accept.
November 25th, 200912:54 pm
I agree that Cabrera has many off the field issues. You cant control what players do off the field (some hide it better than others). If the internet was around in Ty Cobb’s day..would he be unemployed? Although Cabrera partied hard before the Twins game..he still went 2 for 5. Although the braves would never take on that salary..I think he would be ok in the braves clubhouse (in my opinion of course.
November 25th, 20091:04 pm
It’s not too surprising that you don’t remember him, that’s the only season he had with Atlanta. nolie
That’s funny because one of the only things I actuallyknow about Dye is how fragile he is/was.
November 25th, 20091:05 pm
dye was also part of one of the most pivotal plays in the 96 world series. got screened out by the right field umpire. uga-brave
Care to enlighten those of us who have no idea what happened?
Oh look. A new member of the KJ club. RHR
New members are always welcome.
November 25th, 20091:06 pm
Wow…the blog just told me that I was posting comments too quickly and to slow down…with an exclamation point! I didn’t know it did that.
November 25th, 20091:09 pm
Orioles need some veteran SP – what about a Lowe/Luke Scott swap? Granted Scott’s a lefty, but his power is good, average ok, and OBP is fair. Also saw that the Red Sox were looking for starting pitching and considering Kelvin Escobar – I’d want Lowe a hell of a lot more than I’d want Escobar, but who would we get in return from them in a trade like that?
November 25th, 20091:10 pm
Anyone for Shelley Duncan to play first !!!! Yanks cut him loose. Might be a cheap way to go.
November 25th, 20091:11 pm
jeffrey d-Yeah, I figured you weren’t overly serious. I just have this fear of a bench like the old ones with Pete Orr, Keith Lockhart and Willie Harris.
I realize that Prado has earned the full time job and Diaz at least a platoon role in the outfield, but a bench of Diaz, Prado and Infante sure was a high point of the last couple of years.
November 25th, 20091:13 pm
Speaking for us 20 some year olds and saying you do not remember Dye does not speak for all of us. pryguy
Ok, I made a hasty generalization. But I didn’t say that no 20 year olds anywhere remembered him. In fact, probably a good majority of 20 y/o here on this blog remember him…as was seemingly proven here last night.
November 25th, 20091:22 pm
Anyone for Shelley Duncan to play first !!!! Yanks cut him loose. Might be a cheap way to go.
what the…? you cant be serious.
November 25th, 20091:24 pm
We will get Ryan Ludwick for D-Lowe, Schafer, and Medlen
November 25th, 20091:27 pm
beekay, that is just dumb.
November 25th, 20091:28 pm
Beekay – no thanks on that one.
November 25th, 20091:31 pm
beekay-anyone who would trade Lowe, Medlen and Schafer for Ludwick is a completely clueless individual. What on the face of the earth makes you think that is a vaguely equitable deal for the Braves-even as a salary dump?
November 25th, 20091:33 pm
Enter your comments here
November 25th, 20091:34 pm
Hey, LEW. I’ll be up your way next summer with my bride. See you then. Don’t get snowed in up there.
November 25th, 20091:38 pm
richbrave-ONly snowed once so far this year and it was gone by noon. Snow due on Saturday, though and then the cold starts again. Got a full tank of petrified dinos ready to burn.
November 25th, 20091:39 pm
beekay- braves are trading lowe for a prospect or two. and schafer will be traded for part of a deal for a bat.
November 25th, 20091:41 pm
We dump 15 mill and give up a guy who has a ceiling of maybe a #4 starter and a prospect who hasn’t done crap but get injured since his steroid bust. We would have a young outfield for very few dollars, Heyward will be making minimum, Nate is making small money and Ludwick makes under 4 mill. Ludwick bats right knocked in more runs and hit as many HR’s as any of our current players. We can take the 15 mill from Lowe and get a closer and sign Roachie to a 2 year deal
November 25th, 20091:42 pm
You do realize Olney comments changed daily.
I believe Adrian will be hard to land but the Sox are looking at pitching and hoping to sign a cheaper Bay versus Holliday.
They are interested in Halladay big time. Holliday likely but not as much.
November 25th, 20091:46 pm
November 25th, 20091:50 pm
How would Ludwick make our outfield young? He’ll turn 31 next year. That isn’t young in baseball.
November 25th, 20091:51 pm
Beekay – Why do we have to give up Medlen in that trade? He’s just as valuable as the other pieces and you didn’t even mention him. He is not available as a throw in and neither is Schafer. If they are traded it will be for a good player.
November 25th, 20091:52 pm
Even after reading your explanation, I don’t understand why you feel it necessary to toss Medlin into the deal. IF the team wanted to make that deal (and I wouldn’t), Lowe and Schafer should be enough, because I’m not buying your Schafer evaluation at least until after his wrist heals and he plays some games.
Ludwick hit 22 hrs and drove in 100 despite missing 30 games. We could lock him up to a nice deal long term…Medlen is our 6th or 7th inning reliever and Schafer is our 5th best outfielder…DLowes contract clears 45 million and we get back a power hitting corner outfielder
November 25th, 20091:55 pm
Ludwick is younger than the scrubs that are being mentioned. We can get 5 solid years out of him. He is not Loaf,or Dye, or doesn’t strike out 165 times like Cameron. You need to give up pieces for good players. Lowes contract will be difficult to move in todays economy so you need to give up something.
November 25th, 20091:57 pm
I say we give Shelley Duncan a Minor League contract with an invite to Spring Training.
beekay is dumb, plain and simple
November 25th, 20091:59 pm
He is not Loaf,or Dye, or doesn’t strike out 165 times like Cameron.
So Ludwick alone, is more valuable than Lowe, Cameron, Schafer and Medlen.
November 25th, 20092:03 pm
I said he is better than dumping money for Mr. K who struck out 165 times and wants 10 mill. If Medlen is so great what role is he going to play for us next year OJ??? Do you really think Schafer will see the playing field next year? Do you realize how much we can use Lowes 15 million for 1b and closer….
Apparently Tommy Hanson made Topps Rookie All-Star team. Congrats to him.
November 25th, 20092:05 pm
We can basically get Ludwick, Laroche and a closer for Lowe and 2 guys that aren’t major contributors next year because we can use that money saved from the DLowe contract
November 25th, 20092:07 pm
3 way trade: Lowe to Brewers. Cabera to Braves. Prospects to Tigers from Brewers.
November 25th, 20092:08 pm
Do you really think Schafer will see the playing field next year?
Yes, I do. He might’ve had a bad year for Atlanta and missed a good portion of the year, but he’s still young and has all the tools. He’ll probably start the year in AAA, but as soon as the opportunity presents itself, I’m sure he’ll be in Atlanta. I have no doubt about it.
We can get Laroche, a closer, and a similar player to Ludwick without trading anyone. That’s already in our budget without dumping Lowe/Schafer/Medlen. If we trade any of them it will be to get someone better than Mike Cameron/Jermaine Dye level.
November 25th, 20092:09 pm
Other than saying he has no role or value to the Braves, you still give no real reason to put Medlin in your proposal. His role would be similar to ‘09, as a long reliever and spot starter and insurance against injury to starter.
Yes, Schafer (if he’s not traded) will see the field, probably starting in AAA, but moving up when his play or a major league need (injury) dictates. I feel confident that most of his mlb problem was wrist-related.
Marc in FL
November 25th, 20092:13 pm
Why do I have the feeling our bullpen is going to make 2010 very hard to watch?
November 25th, 20092:14 pm
I don’t see Schafer as much more than a 4th outfielder next year. I’ll bet we trade for a corner fielder and have Matty, Nate, and eventually Heyward.Heck maybe we try to resign Church if no one offers him. Shafer will be our Blanco at best. Medlen will be pitching in blow outs next year if we keep him and maybe get a spot start ot two. But hey if you guys want to throw 8-10 mill at Cameron or give money to Dye aka Loaf Jr. so be it
November 25th, 20092:15 pm
What similar player to Ludwick are we going to get without Lowes money or without trading prospects??
November 25th, 20092:21 pm
Beekay What similar player to Ludwick are we going to get without Lowes money or without trading prospects?
if he repeats his 2009 performance, we could have dye, cameron, byrd, thames could probably match those numbers, damon, and nady.
November 25th, 20092:22 pm
i like ludwick, i would trade for him, but lets not go crazy here.
November 25th, 20092:24 pm
Look at it this way. The only reason the Cards would insist on both Medlin and Schafer in such a deal is if they valued them the same as you do. In that case, they would either nix the deal or ask for someone else.
And where do you get the idea that if we (and the Braves) don’t buy into your proposed trade, that the ONLY other options would be to pay way too much for way too little. There are literally hundreds of ways to go. Honestly, the final answer will probably be something that few, if any, saw coming.
After all, Wren is playing things a LOT closer to the vest this year.
November 25th, 20092:29 pm
Cameron, Dye or Ludwick. Any of them are about the same in my opinion.
I think Josh Willingham’s slightly better so if we were to trade, he’d be more interesting to me.
November 25th, 20092:32 pm
Efrim… Braves should offer all three arbitration. I think the chances are remote that Soriano and Gonzo don’t receive attractive multiyear offers. I still wonder if LaRoche will get an attractive offer, though. If not, he might bite on arbitration and wait out the market another year. But I don’t believe that hurts the Braves at all. In fact, I think it would be a boost to have LaRoche at 1st in 2010.
November 25th, 20092:37 pm
Hey, don’t trash the idea of Shelley Duncan too hard. His career path looks a lot like Ludwick’s. Not saying he’s going to bust out with 37 homers and 114 RBI, but the guy can hit. I wouldn’t guarantee him a contract though. I’m sure someone will.
November 25th, 20092:41 pm
Since no one liked that proposal what if it was Lowe, Schafer and JoJo. I really hope we don’t get a broken down Dye or a guy who strikes out more than anyone in the majors other than Reynolds who wants 10 mill. Remember Ludwick drove in 100 even though he missed 30 games, he is much better than paying twice as much for any of the geezers! You think Cameron will sign for under 4 mill?
November 25th, 20092:48 pm
beekay-Cameron for one!
November 25th, 20092:49 pm
What similar player to Ludwick are we going to get without Lowes money or without trading prospects??
November 25th, 20092:51 pm
beekay, why the hell would the Cardinals want Derek Lowe and his 15 million dollar salary and a few prospects for Ryan Ludwick? Either you are valuing Ludwick too high or you are just not taking into consideration of Lowe’s salary. I say you could get Ludwick for Schafer and a guy like Minor, heck maybe not even that good, like Diamond or Rohrbaugh.
Stop throwing Lowe into the deal. They wouldnt take on all that money for just Ryan Ludwick, sheesh.
I think the market for Lowe will improve as the winter progresses. As we all know, there’s not a wealth of solid starting pitchers who’ll go the free agent route. I believe as teams really begin looking very closely at rounding out rotations, Lowe becomes attractive.
But I’m not confident the return for Lowe would be what most of us would want: a younger righty power bat. To move Lowe’s contract off the books (and to retain Vazquez), I’d take a couple of solid high minors prospects in return.
November 25th, 20092:52 pm
I never said I don’t like the idea of Ludwig, just asked (and never got a real answer) why you think it has to be so expensive in terms of talent given up, and why you think that NOT making your deal MUST mean “paying twice as much for any of the geezers!”
November 25th, 20092:53 pm
Being a lifelong resident of Eastern NC, I can say without a doubt that the best barbecue places in ENC are Bill’s,Wilbers (Goldsboro), Skylight(Ayden), and B’s in Greenville. I’ve had Parkers and would probably rate it behind those listed above.
Jeff R, not if the goal is just to rid yourself of the salary constraints that his contract presents. Say if you can trade Lowe for a couple of AA prospects and the other team takes on all his salary, thats enough for me I think.
November 25th, 20092:55 pm
Cause that gives you the money to possibly go out and get a Mike Cameron, Billy Wagner and Sign Vazquez to an extension.
November 25th, 20092:56 pm
Braves aren’t swapping Minor, at least not in a Ludwick deal. Right now, the Braves are projecting him a #3 starter by 2011, as I recall. Hanson, Jurrjens, Minor and, perhaps, Vazquez make for a strong starting rotation.
November 25th, 20092:57 pm
In fact DOB, I would probably add Ken’s Grill in LaGrange to the list above in front of Parkers. Problem with Ken’s like B’s is Ken’s only cooks it on Wednesday’s and Saturday’s and like B’s serves until it’s gone.
Both B’s and the Skylight have been on national tv and are considered must stops for most politicians locally and nationally.
beekay – I like trading JoJo a lot more than Medlin, who I believe will eventually be a middle of rotation starter. I think Schafer is worth a lot more than you think. At the least, I would see what he can do WITH a good wrist.
November 25th, 20092:58 pm
Eric (Green Bay, WI)
Jim, did Gamel slip in the eyes of scouts this year or did Lawrie just show enough to move up? What do you think the Brewers will do with Gamel?
Jim Callis (2:04 PM)
A little of each. I think Lawrie can be every bit the hitter that we thought Gamel would be, if not more, and while Lawrie won’t be a Gold Glover, he’s a better defender. I think the Brewers would move Gamel in the right deal. He can’t play third base, and they think Casey McGehee may be the answer there anyway.
The Cards will lose Pinero they need a horse that can give them the innings thea Lowe can give…..Bobby, Efrim, how much are you going to give Mr. K? I heard he is looking at 2 yrs 15 mill or one year 8 or so? I’d rather give that money to Laroche and have the left over cash go to a closer….I don’t see this as a horrible trade and at least it’s more realistic than the morons who make up stuff like JoJo, B-Jones and Diaz for Fielder
O.J. I could live with that scenario.
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