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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,843 comments Add your comment
DAP
November 30th, 2009
10:09 am
i agree on tiger. unless i am misinformed about the law, a single car accident where alcohol was not a factor is nobody’s business, and im not even sure why the cops want to talk to him. if he hit another car and someone was injured then it would make sense, but im pretty sure tiger has every right and reason to blow off the police in this situation.
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
10:26 am
TnBrian: Billy Wagner and Mike Cameron are “fill-in pieces”? Cameron has significantly better OPS (and home-run totals) over each of past two seasons than either Garret Anderson or Jeff Francoeur, and better than Nate McLouth in 2009.
Wagner had 27 saves an injury-shortened 2008 season, which was lower which was only the second time in eight seasons that he had fewer than 34 saves. Gonzalez’s career best is 24 saves, and Soriano’s best is the 27 he had last season.
Wagner might or might not be what he was before, but he sure looked good when he returned from surgery late last season. You’re talking about a guy with 385 saves, a 2.39 career ERA and 1,092 strikeouts in 833-2/3 innings.
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
10:30 am
Feeanch: I never lived in Wilson, and don’t know hardly anyone there except my parents and my cousin, Kendall Blackwell, who’s a podiatrist in Wilson.
I grew up in Greenville, not Wilson. Parents moved from Montgomery, Ala., back to North Carolina when my dad took a job at a Wilson pork-processing plant in the early 1990s.
RC
November 30th, 2009
10:32 am
After seeing Lew’s 9:40 comment I went back and read all of Nolie’s posts over the past page….he’s right, you are on quite a roll. Keep it comin’!
McFann O
November 30th, 2009
10:36 am
Another plus to having Wagner is the Braves wouldn’t have to worry about facing him…one less lefty reliever for the rest of the league!
Marc in FL
November 30th, 2009
10:43 am
I think it will stay slow until the Winter Meetings, but then it’ll be a rush till Spring Training. I feel pretty good about this off season, Wren has won me over since taking over and I think he’ll make some smart moves. I’m still gonna say Javy is the odd-man out.
Piedmont Blues
November 30th, 2009
10:46 am
Nice story about Kimbrel, DOB.
You think he might open the season as the Braves’ 8th-inning guy?
Mitchie-san
November 30th, 2009
10:55 am
When do the winter meetings start?
keylargo
November 30th, 2009
10:55 am
Tiger hit and damaged a fire hydrant, which are on the public right of way. That is enough to give the Police cause to question him.
Mitchie-san
November 30th, 2009
11:06 am
It might be domestic violence case too. He was trying to get the heck out of there. Where do you think the golf club came from?
DAP
November 30th, 2009
11:08 am
keylargo, dont they have to charge him with something to be able to demand to talk to him? he wasnt drunk, and didnt hurt anybody…do they really want to charge tiger woods with reckless driving in his own neighborhood?
who knows what really happened. only the woods’ really know, and i think it oughta stay that way.
Alec Smart
November 30th, 2009
11:09 am
Tiger hit and damaged a fire hydrant, which are on the public right of way. That is enough to give the Police cause to question him.
If he coulda just kept it in the fairway…
Marc in FL
November 30th, 2009
11:09 am
Winter meetings are Dec 7th and 8th aren’t they?
splitfinger
November 30th, 2009
11:12 am
If he coulda just kept it in the fairway…
Clever metaphor.
Marc in FL
November 30th, 2009
11:12 am
It’s funny really cause if Tiger wasn’t rich he would been thrown in with the crackheads and pickpockets by now
Mitchie-san
November 30th, 2009
11:14 am
Supposedly she was beating the heck out of him because the National Inquirer story. Police was the hospital records to check if they are consistant with him hitting the steering wheel or not.
Nelson S.
November 30th, 2009
11:14 am
Marc,
Winter meetings are Dec.7-10th .
Mitchie-san
November 30th, 2009
11:14 am
*Police want
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
11:15 am
Piedmont Blues: If I had to guess, I think Braves will have Kimbrel work a little longer in Triple-A, just on the consistency in hopes of avoiding command issues as much as possible. But it also wouldn’t shock me if he made the team out of camp, either. He’s that good.
Mitchie-san
November 30th, 2009
11:16 am
Thanks Marc, thanks Nelson. I hope after the winter meetings we will have a new outlook on 2010.
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
11:16 am
Mitchie-san, meetings are next Monday through Thursday in Indy.
Wayne in Utah
November 30th, 2009
11:17 am
Tiger damaged public property. If it had been any other citizen, he might have been cited already. Being that it was Tiger, they are probably giving him the benefit of some time, but he will need to address their questions. He probably also messed up some lawn of the neighbor’s place, but that can probably be handled out of the legal system.
The fire hydrant is his downfall.
I ran off the road about 18 years ago and hit a tree, nobody’s yard or anything, and I was ticketed. I left the vehicle and went to get some help getting it towed out, and the Highway Patrol was waiting on me. I didn’t have the choice to send him away and ask him to call me in a few days.
To be honest, I really don’t know if I could care less. But he shouldn’t be given any special treatment due to his status as a celebrity.
Lew
November 30th, 2009
11:18 am
Why is everyone always looking for some kind of scandal? Don’t we get enough of a diet of crap with all the 24 hour news outlets?
Tiger had a fender bender. No one was hurt. Cops came to the scene and determined no alcohol was involved. No claim of domestic violence was lodged. Leave the guy alone. If necessary, I’m sure he’ll cut a check for any municipal damage he may have caused. End of case.
I swear I heard reporters at the Hospital briefing claiming that there were catastrophic injuries AFTER the spokesperson told them that injuries were minor and he had been released. Then one reporter (I swear this is true) claimed “But we heard the injuries were serious!!!!!!” The spokesperson relplied that such was not the case, to which the reportr replied “BUT I HEARD they were serious.”
I kid you not-a good bit of the denizens of this insane world we live in really need to get a life and a permanent reality check. Sometimes nothing there means there’s nothing there. Sheesh.
Mitchie-san
November 30th, 2009
11:19 am
Thanks DOB. Will you be heading to Indy?
flange 1
November 30th, 2009
11:20 am
Good Morning All!
Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Sounds like DOB got to eat some good Q so all is right with the world!
Look forward to news picking up in the next few days.
It will be VERY interesting to see who gets tendered a contract and who does not. Look for some surprises (maybe Bobby Jenks)
I for one don’t believe that the Braves will find a taker for DLowe without giving away the farm. I think the best we will get is Matt Gamel for Javy.
FW is going to have to let FA be his friends again in 2009-10!
Lew
November 30th, 2009
11:20 am
Wayne-I would bet the Dude has insurance. This is a non issue. If it weren’t that he was Tiger, it never would have been reported to begin with and would have been handld with a ticket. End of situation.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2009
11:23 am
DOB, “fill in” players might be too strong of a word, but Cameron isn’t exactly a “cleanup hitter” & Wagner would still be a gamble considering his age, etc. Not saying they wouldn’t help because Heyward should be a big help offensively more than Frenchy, McLouth & Chipper should improve from ‘09 & I see no reason why Medlen with Moylan wouldn’t be a very good set-up combo out of the pen.
O.J.
November 30th, 2009
11:23 am
flange 1, you think the best we can get is Gamel for Vazquez??? Dude do you know anything about baseball and how it works?
flange 1
November 30th, 2009
11:28 am
OJ,
Yes I know quite a bit about baseball and how it works!
Show me a logical scenario with the Braves getting more for either DLowe or Javy. Let’s see what you got…..
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
11:32 am
TnBrian, where’d the “cleanup hitter” chatter come from, anyway? All I’ve heard from Frank Wren is that the Braves hope to add a productive hitter with power to their lineup, preferably (but not absolutely) right-handed. When did he say they’re looking for a cleanup hitter, specifically? I mean, I’m quite sure they’d love to add a cleanup hitter, but there aren’t a lot of prototypical cleanup-hitter types available. The Braves just want to make sure they improve their offense, period….
Mitchie-san: Yes, I’ll be at Winter Meetings.
Wayne in Utah
November 30th, 2009
11:32 am
Lew
That was my point exactly. If it had been you or me, they would have taken our insurance card, registration, and drivers liscense; we would have been ticketed; end of story.
The fact that he is avoiding it is due to the vultures. That is the price that is paid for being a top celebrity though. Tiger needs to just quit blowing off the police department, and then let his PR folks deal with the vultures.
I don’t know if I would do Vazquez for Gamel. Maybe Lowe for Gamel. Vazquez might bring a larger bounty.
But I have been wrong many times before.
Wayne in Utah
November 30th, 2009
11:33 am
We have a decent cleanup hitter in McCann, much as McFann doesn’t think so….
He just needs to not try to do too much and he will be OK.
DAP
November 30th, 2009
11:39 am
TnBrianCameron isn’t exactly a “cleanup hitter”
id agree with that but i bet you cant give a good reason WHY he isnt a “cleanup hitter”. it seems like most folks here frantic about finding a “true cleanup hitter” dont even really know what that is.
bravofan
November 30th, 2009
11:42 am
I wish the Braves would have signed Andruw!
rtrafford
November 30th, 2009
11:49 am
On Tiger….he hit a hydrant, but the system was located inside a private community on private grounds, beside a private road. The only entity with a beef towards Tiger in terms of destruction of property if the homeowner association, not the fire department or police department or highway patrol, or anyone else. Had this occurred on a public road or in an association where the road was not a “private drive” this wouldn’t be the case.
Lew
November 30th, 2009
11:50 am
bravofan-Why? Are you perhaps masochistic? Or have you just not been aware that his entire career has gone south the past several years? His performance in Texas was hardly noteworthy and certainly not indicative of a comeback.
O.J.
November 30th, 2009
11:50 am
Well, for D-Lowe, they more than likely wont get anything other than salary relief and a few low level prospects, but the whole point there IS for the salary relief. For Vazquez, they could get major league ready talent. maybe a Ryan Ludwick for Vazquez type deal would work, my point is, they could get more than just a rookie like Gamel for Vazquez who was 4th in the Cy Young voting, regardless of whether or not they he has only a year left on his contract.
CB
November 30th, 2009
11:53 am
I heard Tiger’s wife swung a one iron at Tiger but I knew she missed- even God can’t hit a one iron.
DAP
November 30th, 2009
11:54 am
i think the lowe for juan rivera talks we had awhile back are pretty reasonable if the angels lose lackey. that one seems doable. i might consider that deal as being better than vazquez for gamel.
bravofan
November 30th, 2009
11:54 am
Lew: for 500,000 I would give the guy a shot like the white sox did ya know he would be a good asset off the bench.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2009
11:55 am
DOB, I haven’t read one thing where the Braves said they’re going after a true middle of the order bat, but reading between the lines I assume that’s what they want. Imo, you can’t have McCann who doesn’t play every game hitting there & his numbers hitting 5th were better. I agree, just get some power wherever they hit, but I have an issue with Mac hitting there & CJ has already said he prefers the 3rd spot.
DAP, you ever checked out Cameron’s RBI totals throughout his career? Only once in his 15 year career has he drove in 100 or more guys. That tells me he leaves too many guys stranded & I don’t think it’s all a coiencedence & he’d thrive hitting between CJ & Mac. But you knew that, you just wanted my reason, right?
Keeper
November 30th, 2009
12:00 pm
Richbrave, thanks for the updates while I was on the road (11 hours Sat, 4 hours Sun – ugh). Not a pretty win, but our boys made some great red zone stands – that 1st-and-goal-from-the-1 stop in the third quarter sounded huge at the time (I was listening on radio) and obviously turned out to be game-defining.
VJ, congrats on the convincing win over a relative cupcake (Times-Dispatch had a story on why you got the weaker team even though we were seeded – their assessment: you got the leftovers after everyone else had been paired up regionally). I hope your boys look just as strong this week – S. Ill on the road is a massive hurdle. We don’t have an easy assignment either against Armanti & Co., despite being at home.
Nice win over Wake, too! Tell you what: we’ll keep beating the likes of Missy St. and Mizzou to make your win over us look even stronger, and you keep beating teams like Wake to make our lone loss look not nearly as bad as we thought at the time. Deal?
N8
November 30th, 2009
12:05 pm
“Andruw doesn’t deserve what he gets here. Best CF anybody my age’ll ever see. Ever. That’s right; I can see 60 years into the future (though I can’t believe me and my liver”ll make another 30).” BAS
I actually agree with you. But I still don’t care that he’s signed with the White Sox to be their 4th OF. Too many people here (bloggers & the headline writers) living in the past.
We’ve got a team that just about snuck into the playoffs for the first time in three years last year. Lot of good young talent on this team. There is no logical reason for THEM to not be the focus of the Braves page.
But seriously, I’m over it. LOL. Just chiming in to agree that Andruw was probably the best CF that I’ve ever seen play the game in my 38 years on this planet. Can’t and won’t compare him to guys before I was born. So not willing to definitively say “best ever”. But certainly in the conversation, he deserves to be.
DAP
November 30th, 2009
12:05 pm
TnBrianDAP, you ever checked out Cameron’s RBI totals throughout his career? Only once in his 15 year career has he drove in 100 or more guys.
thats what i thought. you cite his RBI totals as the reason he isnt a cleanup hitter. you are officially clueless.
Lew
November 30th, 2009
12:08 pm
bravofan-We’re sitting here complaining about how we need more payroll flexibility and having to trade a frontline starter for next to nothing to clear up the money to improve our offense. Andruw has hit .206 since the beginning of the 07 season in 311 games. Hes hit 20 HR the past two years, 17 of them in Texas, where arguably, I could hit one out (I’m 58) on a good 95 degree day. Last year he played all of 25 games in the field.
And we could have gotten all of this for what Prado or Hanson are making? Wow. Why in the world did the Braves pass?
N8
November 30th, 2009
12:09 pm
I’m not sure Tiger having insurance or not is an issue. I’m going to go out on a limb here, but I think he could write a check that would “clear” for the hydrant if they asked him to.
RHR
November 30th, 2009
12:09 pm
It’s funny really cause if Tiger wasn’t rich he would been thrown in with the crackheads and pickpockets by now
What would the charge be?
The funniest thing I saw in all this was this gem – “Thank God that Tebow wasn’t in Tiger’s car, CBS would have cut away from Iron Bowl completely.”
Lew
November 30th, 2009
12:12 pm
tan-Depends on his deductible.
Lew
November 30th, 2009
12:13 pm
Damn-That was supposed to be Nathan. I really can’t type. I guess that’s what you get for learning on an ancient Underwood 40 years ago.
N8
November 30th, 2009
12:15 pm
Wren may have a trade up his sleeve to solve the RH power in the lineup. But from my angle, on the open free agent market, there isn’t a much better fit than Cameron. Nady if healthy might be a better overall hitter. But Cameron not only would improve the lineup (or at least sustain what Loaf did from the right side of the plate – giving the lineup more balance), and imo, would/should be the CF moving Nate over to LF.
Add to that both he and his wife want to be Braves. What’s not to like?
TnBrian
November 30th, 2009
12:18 pm
DAP, alright smart ass, tell us ignorant folks why Mike Cameron isn’t a cleanup hitter.
O.J.
November 30th, 2009
12:20 pm
I am lost now, is DAP saying Cameron IS or ISNT a cleanup hitter?
Venice Jim
November 30th, 2009
12:23 pm
Keeper – that works for me. Looks like we’ll be done playing Saturday long before you get started – noon for us, 7:00 for you.
Braves_Fan_RSD
November 30th, 2009
12:25 pm
To the “clean-up” hitter argument:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings091119&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines
“Teams that have talked to the Braves say they don’t want to deal for just another bat. [B]They want a cleanup-hitter kind of bat.[/B] So Javy Vazquez, Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami are all out there as big-time Rumor Central fodder. But when teams zero in on Vazquez, they find the Braves are trying to steer the conversations toward Lowe, who has three years and $45 million left on the contract he signed last winter. If the Braves can move Lowe, they’re expected to try to work out an extension with Vazquez, who is a year away from free agency. But can Lowe — who allowed 299 baserunners in 194 2/3 innings — get them the kind of bat they need? And is there even going to be a true cleanup hitter available, aside from Adrian Gonzalez? Probable answers: No … and no.”
That was from Jayson Stark ESPN 11/19/09
TnBrian
November 30th, 2009
12:28 pm
O.J., DAP wants to have his/her smart ass Monday to start the week. I think DAP is saying Cameron isn’t a cleanup type hitter but my answer to that was clueless & weak according to the baseball genius.
McFann O
November 30th, 2009
12:28 pm
Wayne We have a decent cleanup hitter in McCann, much as McFann doesn’t think so….
It’s not exactly that I don’t think he’s a decent cleanup hitter…it’s just that I don’t like him there because, like you said, he tries to do too much–or at least he appears to do that. And of course this year he also had that eye stuff to deal with…
If he’s our cleanup hitter to start the 2010 season, it won’t be the end of the world…but I think it would be better to find a 30-ish homer dude to bat 4th with BMac fifth. IDK, just MO…
DAP
November 30th, 2009
12:29 pm
TnBrian, RBI is almost completely dependent on what other players do. i think that cameron COULD be an ok cleanup hitter if he had a good year, but i would prefer to have a guy whos slg% is a little closer to the .500 mark consistently.
ive had this discussion a few bloggers who talk about how much the braves need a “true cleanup hitter”. most of them disappear when i ask them to define it, and when they do respond, its either with totally unrealistic and unnecessary statistic milestones, or names, which isnt really an answer, and are usually guys who either dont hit cleanup for their team, and/or arent really better than brian mccann.
ps, i apologize for that last comment (the clueless one), which was rude.
Braves_Fan_RSD
November 30th, 2009
12:34 pm
My definition of a clean up hitter:
“a player who forces the opposing team to pitch to Chipper Jones”
DAP
November 30th, 2009
12:38 pm
braves_fan_rsd My definition of a clean up hitter:
“a player who forces the opposing team to pitch to Chipper Jones”
that is extremely ambiguous.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2009
12:39 pm
DAP, appology taken. I really don’t understand how you can say that RBI is almost completely dependant on what other guys do because if they’re on base, drive ‘em in. Sure, the guy can’t help what other do before him but I can easily remember when Atlanta faced Mil. the last few years & Cameron either K’d or popped out with RISP & he did this a bunch over a stretch of games. Who knows, I’m just giving my opinion that a #4 hitter should be able to capitalize on situations most of the time & MC’s career RBI #’s don’t show that. Slug % is also a good one to go by.
Lew
November 30th, 2009
12:51 pm
A more accurate measurement might be the percentage of runners in scoring position (or runners on base) that were actually driven in and how that relates to the rest of baseball. Beyond my knowledge how to come up with this info, though.
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
12:54 pm
Lew, in fairness to Andruw, he eight of his 17 homers last season came on the road. But otherwise, I agree with you entirely.
The guy hit .214 with a .782 OPS last season, including .199 with a .705 OPS away from the hitter-friendly Texas ballpark.
He hit .200 with four homers and a .303 OBP in 65 at-bats as an outfielder — that’s all he played in the outfield, and all of that was in LF and RF. He had 192 at-bats as a DH, 16 as a 1B, and went 1-for-8 as a pinch-hitter.
He’s a career 9-for-47 with two homers as a PH.
Since July 20, 2007 he’s hit .201with a .666 OPS in 217 games and 712 at-bats.
Since Aug. 31, 2007 he’s hit .191 with 22 homers and a .291 OBP in 181 games and 575 at-bats.
And beginning July 9 last season, he hit .165 (20-for-121) with three homers and nine RBI in 36 games the rest of the season. That’s all he played the rest of the way.
Billy Walsh
November 30th, 2009
12:55 pm
With Bay and Holiday too expensive the braves are going to have to look at the lesser tier guys. Any big trade up Wren’s sleeve to bring an impact bat is going to have to involve either a Heyward or Freeman or both to get it done (i.e. Adrian Gonzalez…even though he is not available)
ccrider
November 30th, 2009
1:03 pm
DAP, OJ and TnBrian: Maybe we just sign Cameron, who is great against lefthanded pitching, and Carlos Delgado, who is great against righthanders and switch them in the order according to who is pitching.
DAP
November 30th, 2009
1:05 pm
TnBrianI really don’t understand how you can say that RBI is almost completely dependent on what other guys do because if they’re on base, drive ‘em in.
its really simple. cameron could be playing on a team where the OBP is very low, and he doesnt get many chances to drive guys in. the guys in front of him could be slow, and unable to score on a basehit. he could have big sluggers in front of him, clearing the bases before he gets to the plate. cameron has hardly hit in the cleanup spot at all, and i would argue that his RBI numbers would spike in that position, because its often the best position for RBI opportunities.
cameron’s career situational stats are very good and consistent. its not a good idea to judge him based on either RBI totals, or what you saw him do in a series with the braves.
Wayne in Utah
November 30th, 2009
1:06 pm
Braves fan RSD
You hit the nail on the head. Add to that, ideally a high slugging percentage and decent on base percentage. Ryan Howard proves that a great cleanup hitter doesn’t have to hit for a high average.
I suspect that our best cleanup hitter, barring a signing of Bay or Holliday (which is highly unlikely), is going to be our catcher.
McFann
Definitely agree with ya about Brian. I just expect he will have a better year this year. He will be one year older and more mature, plus he will hopefully not have to deal with those darned glasses.
Braves_Fan_RSD
November 30th, 2009
1:11 pm
DAP
November 30th, 2009
12:38 pm
braves_fan_rsd My definition of a clean up hitter:
“a player who forces the opposing team to pitch to Chipper Jones”
that is extremely ambiguous.
What i mean by that is for example:
if you have Mike Cameron as you clean-up hitter every team in the world will pitch around Chipper given the opportunity. Even Brian McCann is going to cause Chipper to be pitched around. Mark Teixiera fit my definition of a “clean – up” hitter and here are some stats:
2007-2008 with out Teixiera (Chipper Jones stats):
390 AB 130 H 26 2B 2 3B 19 HR 65 RBI 72 BB – .333/.437/.556/.993
2007-2008 with Teixeria (Chipper Jones Stats):
562 AB 203 H 40 2B 3 3B 32 HR 112 RBI 100 BB – .361/.457/.614/1.071
So with Teixiera in the lineup his line went up by .028/.020/.058/.078 thats a big jump in numbers. Then take this into consideration: HR totals went from 1 every 21 ABs to 1 every 17 ABs, Walk totals rose from 1 every 5.14 ABs to 1 every 5.62 ABs (so basically he walked less). RBI totals went from 1 every 6 ABs to 1 every 5 ABs. Bottom line is he saw better pitches and got pitched around less and he became more productive. So my definition of a “clean-up” hitter is someone who gets chipper better pitches and more ABs.
Lew
November 30th, 2009
1:12 pm
One aspect of Cameron’s time in Milwaukee that might just have a bearing on his RBI-He plays with two huge RBI guys-Braun and Fielder. They might not leave him much of a set table to clean up after.
dmack2027
November 30th, 2009
1:14 pm
No chance the Braves trade Heyward. Simply put, you do not trade this type of prospect.
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
1:14 pm
Just spoke to Bean Stringfellow, agent for Billy Wagner. It’s still eight teams that are interested in the lefty, including the Braves. Only one of those teams has indicated that an arb offer to Wagner by Boston tomorrow might affect their interest, and that team isn’t the Braves.
In other words, if he’s offered arbitration by Red Sox — Stringfellow fully expects he will be — it’s not going to deter Braves and six other teams’ interest in him, or so they’ve indicated.
He said he’s only talked financial parameters with teams so far — offers are expected to start coming in after tomorrow’s deadline for teams to offer arbitration to their current free agents.
(Even though seven of the teams interested in Wagner have indicated an arb offer wouldn’t deter them, it’s obviously not smart for someone to sign him before Boston even offers or declines to offer arb, if there’s even the slightest chance they won’t offer it.)
McFann O
November 30th, 2009
1:15 pm
Wayne–
Exactly. Should be exciting…
flange 1
November 30th, 2009
1:16 pm
OJ,
I have heard that the Braves feel like they can trade Lowe for something, and not take on much or any of his salary.
I hope that is the case, but I don’t see it happening. That would leave the team to trade Javy.
Because of Javy’s NTC to the west coast and his not so great tenure’s with the Yankees and White Sox, I think the market for Javy is very limited as well.
I think your Ludwick suggestion is a pipe dream. The Cards have said they are not spending big money on a pitcher and when they lose Holiday, they will not want to trade Ludwick.
I hope FW can figure this mess out!
P. W. Hjort
November 30th, 2009
1:18 pm
I’m thinking Wren ends up going with one of the AAA vets. Jake Fox, Randy Ruiz, etc..
ncscoots
November 30th, 2009
1:18 pm
“a player who forces the opposing team to pitch to Chipper Jones”
that is extremely ambiguous
I dunno, that’s pretty close, as a qualitative description.
Who knows, I’m just giving my opinion that a #4 hitter should be able to capitalize on situations most of the time & MC’s career RBI #’s don’t show that.
Hitting .250 will do that for you. Cameron slugs only slightly better than Martin Prado with RISP (and much worse than, say, Yunel Escobar), and, when you add to that an inability to hit safely at a high rate, it’s a foregone conclusion that he won’t have high RBI numbers, regardless of context.
ugaaccountant
November 30th, 2009
1:21 pm
Cameron + Delgado is not an improvement on Laroche + Anderson, it’s treading water at best.
That’s assuming we’re all in agreement that Delgado is now a substantially worse player than before injury. If any team thinks he’s still a 40hr guy, he’ll be too expensive anyway. Really tough player to judge with his injury, but if we get him cheaper than Laroche, it’s because he’s expected to produce less than Laroche.
Cameron over Anderson, significant improvement defensively but he’s getting to that age where his offense will soon fall off. Anderson’s batting really wasn’t too bad.
I hope the Braves have something better or at least younger in mind. I’d like to see Gamels in our lineup for instance. Won’t likely be as good this year as say Delgado, but he’d be under team control for much longer.
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2009
1:27 pm
RC,
You need to be reading all of nolie’s posts. Don’t wait for Lew, or someone, to rec them. You’ve been here too long to not know that.
N8,
I actually agree eith you on that 6-day headline. But the cats here repeatedly knocking ‘Druw sucks. He got old (for his job); happens to all of us. But he was the best, and as important, he was ours.
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
1:32 pm
dmack2027: Agreed on Heyward. You don’t trade a prospect that good and that good a fit for your organization for at least the better part of the next decade.
Here’s what Wren said when I asked him the last week of the season if he considered any players untouchable or nearly untouchable:
“I think we always have a list of players that — I don’t think anybody’s every completely off-limits, but there’s always a group that you don’t want to trade. As we talked about last year with Hanson, when his name came up, we’re not going to trade him. The same goes for Heyward — we’re not going to trade him. I can’t see a situation where we would trade him. So, as rare as those kind of guys are, we’ve had a couple of them in the last year, which speaks a lot for our minor league system.”
RC
November 30th, 2009
1:32 pm
Bay Area Steve,
You are definitely right. Just wanted to make sure others followed suit after I had been away from the blog for the weekend.
indianabravesfan
November 30th, 2009
1:33 pm
Hey DOB, whhat hotel is the winter meeting being held at in Indy. I live in a suburb of Indianapolis swinging by there one evening to check it out.
Thanks,
P. W. Hjort
November 30th, 2009
1:34 pm
I know this may sound crazy for a few reasons, including the fact that he reportedly didn’t really like Atlanta and doesn’t exactly profile as a right-handed power bat, but if the Red Sox non-tender Kotchman, he might be worth consideration.
keylargo
November 30th, 2009
1:34 pm
On Tiger….he hit a hydrant, but the system was located inside a private community on private grounds, beside a private road. rtrafford
Not correct.
The Utility easement is about 20 feet of land on each side of the road. Unless the Homeowners Association has an Electricity Generator, Water Purification/Drinking System, Sewage Treatment Plant, Satellite TV, and Natural Gas Plant these Utilities are supplied by Public Utilities. They are routed down the Public Utility Easement which is parallel to the road on each side.
Tiger ran off the road, hit and damaged a Publically owned Fire Hydrant and is thus subject to damages and Traffic violations.
RC
November 30th, 2009
1:36 pm
I know this may sound crazy for a few reasons, including the fact that he reportedly didn’t really like Atlanta and doesn’t exactly profile as a right-handed power bat, but if the Red Sox non-tender Kotchman, he might be worth consideration.
You’re right. That does sound crazy
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2009
1:37 pm
Just one other thing about Billy Wagner: The Braves’ proximity to his Virginia home and presence of Bobby Cox for 2010, along with having a pitching staff and team that should compete for a postseason berth, are favorable for them when it comes to what Wagner would want in terms of contract length, etc. His agent indicated he might require a better and/or longer deal from a team with fewer of the desirable features he’s looking for.
DAP
November 30th, 2009
1:38 pm
Braves_Fan_RSD
teixeria is a great cleanup hitter, but again with a name and no numbers. what exactly about teixiera made pitchers NOT pitch around chipper. was it because his name was teixiera, or was it something about his performance? i think it had more to do with tex’s .570 slg% than it did the name on his jersey.
i know what your trying to say, but your talking about only a handful of player in the majors who can protect chipper just with their name, and even that is short lived. all you need is a 10 game slump and chipper is exposed again until said big name player snaps out of it. i think weve got to talk numbers, not names.
ugaaccountant
November 30th, 2009
1:38 pm
PWH –
Add Kotchman to the list of available guys indicating we should resign Laroche.
ugaaccountant
November 30th, 2009
1:39 pm
Yes DAP, in large part the NAME of the hitter is what makes an effective cleanup hitter. People are not perfectly rational in real life so they aren’t siting their pouring over stats on whether they should be scared of Tex or not. They simply react to their impression of Tex, which is that he’s a guy they’d rather not face.
RC
November 30th, 2009
1:41 pm
Yes DAP, in large part the NAME of the hitter is what makes an effective cleanup hitter. People are not perfectly rational in real life so they aren’t siting their pouring over stats on whether they should be scared of Tex or not. They simply react to their impression of Tex, which is that he’s a guy they’d rather not face.
Case in point: Every Chipper Jones at-bat vs. the Cardinals last year.
DAP
November 30th, 2009
1:47 pm
ugaaccountantin large part the NAME of the hitter is what makes an effective cleanup hitter. People are not perfectly rational in real life so they aren’t siting their pouring over stats on whether they should be scared of Tex or not. They simply react to their impression of Tex, which is that he’s a guy they’d rather not face.
but what is the cause of the “fear”? isnt it his numbers, or what the number represent, weather or not they are consciously being considered and poured over at the time?
maybe some guys are great picks hit to hit cleanup BECAUSE no one fears them. sure, put guys on in front of me, and see what happens. eventually those guys become ones you dont want to face in a tight situation. mccann is certainly capable of good enough numbers to achieve that.
Al for ATL
November 30th, 2009
1:49 pm
You know its a dry time in sports when Tiger Woods smashing his SUV is receiving THIS much air time. They talked more about Tiger on sports radio this morning than the NFL.
The winter meetings cannot start too soon . . .
DAP
November 30th, 2009
1:49 pm
look out, mets are close to signing alex cora for $2mil.
Bobby's Cox
November 30th, 2009
1:54 pm
Just looked at a list of all FA available. There are 131 supposedly. There’s some good relievers out there.
Besides Wagner, & LaTroy Hawkins, there are a few Far East players that seem appealing to me: Chan Ho Park, Ryota Igarashi, and Takashi Saito. Kiko Calero is a pretty good reliever as well.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Aq7sj86WCRsGyaOWOoDYwrgRvLYF?slug=jp-freeagenttracker111909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Braves_Fan_RSD
November 30th, 2009
1:55 pm
Al for ATL
November 30th, 2009
1:49 pm
You know its a dry time in sports when Tiger Woods smashing his SUV is receiving THIS much air time. They talked more about Tiger on sports radio this morning than the NFL.
The winter meetings cannot start too soon . . .
Tiger would receive this much airtime if his hamster had a bowel movement lol
dmack2027
November 30th, 2009
1:57 pm
I really hope the Braves offer arbitration to Gonzo and Soriano. I know some are concerned Sori might take the offer. I disagree with this sentiment. Players who accept arbitration are the ones who feel they have something to prove. They buy themselves one more year to up their value. Soriano’s value has never been higher. He is one of the best closers on the market.
If he accepts arbitration with the Braves, he risks hurting his stock with injury. For Rafael, this is a real risk given his health history.
nick
November 30th, 2009
1:57 pm
Would you rather have Soriano and Gonzalez on multi-year deals or Wagner and Saito on one year deals?
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2009
1:59 pm
I didn’t think there was anything that could force me to forfeit my fanaticism for all things Braves. But, the mere thought of Kiko Calero, in a Braves uniform, throwing 29 straight sliders might have just done it.
RC, my bad.
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2009
2:00 pm
look out, mets are close to signing alex cora for $2mil.
Shall we go ahead and concede the NL East?
RC
November 30th, 2009
2:04 pm
Would you rather have Soriano and Gonzalez on multi-year deals or Wagner and Saito on one year deals?
Are we assuming the same annual salary for either situation? If so, I’d have to say Wagner/Saito on one year deals, if only because of the injury risk associated with all 4 of those pitchers. And I feel like the Braves have good arms in the minor leagues that’ll be ready to step into the late-inning relief roles at a discounted price in 2011 and beyond.
RC
November 30th, 2009
2:05 pm
Bay Area Steve,
No worries. All your comment did was draw attention to one of the more deserving posters on the blog, to which I’ve got no complaints.
ugaaccountant
November 30th, 2009
2:06 pm
I get what you’re saying DAP. I’d certainly love the Braves to find that guy who will become a scary cleanup hitter over the next 2 years, I just refuse to use past stats as the basis for who can be that guy for us over the next several years.
Looking only at past stats would have made you ignore Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard, and Mark Reynolds as legit options the year before they had monster breakout seasons. Honestly, a pretty good stat to look at would be to find someone who strikes out a ton. If they strike out a ton but are still trotted out every day, there’s a decent chance they are about to become a feared cleanup hitter. Therefore, in all seriousness, I’d rather trot out Chris Davis than Mike Cameron. I’ve seen what Cameron can do, and his addition wouldn’t be enough to win in the playoffs.
If we can’t afford an Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrerra, why not gamble? The attendance won’t increase because we get Cameron. And with our pitching staff, assuming good health, we’ll be in the playoff race with almost anyone at 1b and lf. So I just hope to see the Braves try to go big instead of playing it safe. Cameron being the safety play.
I acknowledge there are much worse options than Cameron being mentioned, but I just don’t want to even think about that (shudder).
Bobby's Cox
November 30th, 2009
2:08 pm
BAS,
Calero may give you the creepers, but he did have a .180 BAA and only allowed 1 HR last year…two criterion the Braves seemed to have savored in the past. But perhaps you’re right, we already have Moylan that throws a good share of sliders out of the pen.