12:05 am November 17, 2009, by David O'Brien
November 21st, 20097:35 pm
PWH, maybe moving dye to left wouldn’t make him look average, (because he was WAY below average) but maybe it would at least make him look better than Anderson — DAP
Talking to people who watched him in the field last year, I think you could expect Dye to be no better than Garret in the outfield, and possibly even worse.
November 21st, 20097:40 pm
Tomahawkin, you haven’t heard Kelly’s name mentioned because he’s a perfect example of a guy that teams are going to wait and see if he’s non-tendered. Teams would much prefer to sign him to a lower salary and give him nothing to get him, rather than trade for him and take on his arb obligation.
November 21st, 20097:41 pm
VaBraveFan, hate to say it because it’s become a broken record here, but if more fans would show up at Turner Field during the season than just maybe payroll could go up a bit. Luckily, our team has a good farm system so we’re not the Pirates or Royals.
Say no to DeRo. Injury prone like a MF’er & the fact that he’s a Infante with a bit more power makes me not want him. Why spend what it’ll take to sign him when we have another versatile, cheaper option on our bench already in Infante? I’d much rather see Cameron signed than DeRo.
November 21st, 20097:42 pm
braves rank 11th in majors in 2009 at 96.7 million payroll.
Astros, Mariners, Dodgers, Phillies, Angels, Tigers, Red Sox, Cubs, Mets, Yankees are ahead of us.
I happy with our payroll, but when the teams needs just a bit more a tiny fraction more that shouldnt stop them. Over all the years its the same thing we just dont have enough to sign this guy or that guy. To the point where Chipper has to change his current contract to have athat little wiggle room they need or just to out of the blue Cut Braves Great Tom Glavine because of 1 million dollars haha… it sounds really stupid with all the money in the organization for 2 or 3 million to be such a big deal is all i’m saying.
November 21st, 20097:45 pm
Nolie and Steve from OH: You guys thinking LaRoche is “just average” defensively, huh? Let me just go on record and say I strongly disagree, and I’ll leave it at that.
(OK, I’ll elaborate a bit: He’s not nearly as good as Mark Teixeira or even as good as Casey Kotchman — much less Pujols, DLee or a handful of others — but both of those previous Braves 1Bs were outstanding, Teixeira being off-the-charts. LaRoche, while lacking in range, has an outstanding arm that enables him to start some double plays other guys do not, and he’s very smooth fielding around the base and scooping throws. That makes him above average defensively, in my view.)
November 21st, 20097:46 pm
Even with Gonzo/Soriano/LaRoche coming off the books I’ll bet right now that Wren won’t do any big signing(if he does in the first place) until he can find a team to take on Lowe’s contract. We might be looking at late Dec./January before we get an OF or 1B. Heck, they might wait it out until early spring training. Wouldn’t be surprised a bit.
Oh i’m with you. I rather have Cameron too. I just mentioned DeRo cause i seen the Braves are interested.
DeRo wouldnt be a bad option. He can play any position just about. and yes he is Infante with more power, but DeRo can be a everyday regular unlike Infante who will be a utility man for the rest of his career
November 21st, 20097:47 pm
I agree with u about LaRoche!
November 21st, 20097:54 pm
braves rank 11th in majors in 2009 at 96.7 million payroll.
Considering how few butts the Braves put in seats, I’d say the upper third (almost) of the league in payroll is pretty good.
November 21st, 20097:56 pm
VaBraveFan, nah, they don’t need DeRo at all. He’s a nice player to have as a backup plane but what Atlanta needs is a true slugger, not Infante part 2. Cameron isn’t that either, but somehow I think his defense will come in handy more than DeRo’s versatility, imo.
Steve from OH
November 21st, 20097:59 pm
Maybe above average Dave, I dunno. I’m just saying that I don’t think he’s GG caliber like some here think. I just don’t think his range is good enough. No knock on him, because he does have a great glove. Like I said I really don’t know what I’m seeing, so if you disagree with me it’s duly noted and appreciated.
November 21st, 20098:02 pm
Yes true, attendance is down , but losing and no offense is the reason to go along with the ecomony. I would attend Braves games, but I’m in VA lol. And i’m currently laid off and have been laid off on and off for the past year. so alot of people cant afford to go to games regardless. Just because the Organization isnt happy with there already good profit they produce shouldnt affect them wanting to win. I’ve been to one Major League game and it was the Nats and Braves at the Redskins old stadium. I had a good time, but i didnt buy anythinhg there cause prices are outragous. Maybe if Ballclubs would adjust to the people and lower the rediculous prices of things at the game it would help the attendance. I mena there already making like 1000% profit on every single thing they sell. Like a hotdog cost what 5 bucks??? when i can get 8 for a dollar, beer what 7 bucks for a cup? thats the problem, but i’m a blue collar working class person so that my attitude torward that stuff.
Wayne in Utah
November 21st, 20098:05 pm
There are so many ways that the Braves can go with their off season, it is really hard to try to speculate on it. A LOT of players would be good additions (DeRosa, Cameron, Gomes, Rivera, Gamels, etc.), but as most have stated, it all depends on whether Frank can get the slugger as to what complimentary parts he adds.
Persnally, I would rather see them go with a short term or temp fix type player, at least until we see what Heyward will be able to do. Freeman too. I just don’t think giving up 3-5 big name prospects for players like AG and Cabrera is good for our long term health.
keylargo and Bill in Atlanta
Thanks for the recommendations. I have tried most of those, to no avail. Volume has gotten a lot worse in the past 2-3 years. Makes me wonder where the top end is. Years ago, I might go a week without noticing it. Now, if I go 15 minutes undistracted while awake, it is rare. Peace and quiet is never fully appreciated until it goes away. Knock out drugs work, but who wants to live that way. Thanks again guys.
November 21st, 20098:12 pm
What I’m banking on is KJ gets traded in S. Training…especially if he’s playing for a spot and has a great spring which will increase his trade value…
And does anyone know who Roachy’s agent is…?
My feeling leads me to believe that the Braves F.O. will be smart and let both Gonzo and MFIKY walk…
Petey Pablo is your 2010 closer and Easy-E will be the set-up man, “Mark it Down!”
Come on UGA!
November 21st, 20098:15 pm
Clemson vs Georgia Tech. Should be interesting. First, we have to get through the Gamecocks.
There are a lot of excellent first basemen in the league. LaRoche has excellent hands and footwork from my somewhat limited observations. He might be lacking a bit on range, but he is sure-handed. Really, the difference between excellent range and OK range for a first and third baseman is only a few feet at the most. That is oft times affected by the footspeed of the player, and probably his overall quickness. I don’t know of anyone who would call Adam quick.
Adam is certainly not an elite first baseman, but he does save a lot of errors at first. Who is best between him and Kotchman? If we got a really strong OF bat, Kotchman would be a good 1-2 year option. But, wasn’t it said after he left that he didn’t fit in well in the clubhouse? I might be wrong on that one.
November 21st, 20098:18 pm
I say no to Dero as well…!
I want Chone Figgins to be our leadoff hitter who can give Hoss a day off a week. Sure his defense is suspect but the man almost had a .400 OBP last year, and did I mention that he can run. We haven’t had a true leadoff hitter since the 2001 version of Rafael Furcal
And Did I mention how much I’m lusting for Jason Bay…! The F.O. needs to come correct this offserason and go Hard after Bay! Do it Now!
I’d be content with getting Jermaine Dye as well , only at a 1 year deal. That gives Heyward one more year to be ready in 2011…
If we get Jermaine Dye expect his power numbers to fall off in that he will move from a hitter’s paradise to a pitchers paradise…
So you think the Braves will offer KJ arbitration?
November 21st, 20098:20 pm
And Did I mention how much I’m lusting for Jason Bay
I wouldn’t go around telling people that…
November 21st, 20098:22 pm
I think your dreaming, my friend. Heyward will be in Atlanta in April, I believe.
Figgins will be overpriced. Jermaine Dye is a huge defensive liability. Bay, while I would love to have him, will be out of our budget restraints.
It’s a possibility…
Given that everyone knows what KJ can do when he comes correct…
I thought he was one of the most underrated offensive 2b-man in the NL just a few years ago…He defense is another story however…
Come to think of it if he isn’t open to the idea of playing LF (From what I heard he isn’t) then we let him go
November 21st, 20098:24 pm
Steve From OH
Just Imagine Bay Sandwiched between Chipper B-Macc and Roachy (Assuming he comes back). Then we’d be able to hang with the big boys…
And No to trading Vazquez!!! I’m letting everyone know right now that I’m gonna go off if we trade Vazquez!
I had a nice long post about first baseman, that went into blog la la land, I guess. Not motivated enough to repeat it, but suffice it to say, range for a first baseman is overrated. Good hands and foot work is of the utmost importance. It’s all about getting all the throws, and saving a lot of errors for the other infielders. LaRoche does all of that, and does it well. Range only accounts for a foot or two of coverage for someone that close to the batter.
November 21st, 20098:25 pm
Keith Law said today that he thought Figgins was going to be the most overpriced FA this season.
Figgins is gonna be the most overpaid player this offseason. I hearing reports saying he’s gonna gets around 10-12 million a year. 3 or 4 years.
November 21st, 20098:29 pm
Wayne in Utah…
Since Dye is slow and his defense is suspect, he takes the nickname of “Loaf” if and only if he joins the braves…
November 21st, 20098:30 pm
Better get ready to go off then. I think it is 50/50 that Javy is dealt.
I know that many have stated that they don’t think we need a strong right handed batter, but what happens when Chipper is gone. We have these guys coming along: McCann, Heyward, Freeman, Schafer, and McLouth; and then Milligan is going to come on too.
So, our righties are Escobar, Prado and Diaz.
We need a big right handed bat in the next few years.
If we can get Figgins to the “A” for 8-9 mill, then do it otherwise I’d hold out and wait for the Free Agent market to pan out. We got burned last offseason overpaying/bidding for free agents and not addressing the offense
November 21st, 20098:33 pm
consider me on the Figgins bandwagon as well
November 21st, 20098:34 pm
I’m sorry, I forgot about Infante and Ross!
Ugh. Figgins. Exactly the type of player we don’t need to commit a lot of years and dollars to…
November 21st, 20098:36 pm
Some team is going to give Figgins a four year contract worth between 40 and 48 million. I hope that’s how the Mets fill their void in left field….
November 21st, 20098:37 pm
Does anyone agree ith me that prices at games for food and other stuff is too high? I think that is part of the low attendance. If i lived in Atlanta would i rather stay home and relax watch the game at home, or go to the game and spend 100 bucks on a few hot dogs and drinks?
November 21st, 20098:38 pm
I saw the Nellie Cruz Bandwagon is in full swing as well. I read that blog and didn’t post on it…
But I like that Idea…Dump either D. Lowe or KK for Nellie Cruz. Then we wouldn’t have to overpay for a free agent…
No way the braves go after Matt Holliday…He will sellout to WhineBrenner and the Yankees, “Mark it Down”…
And If anyone mentions that we should go after Johnny Damon then something is wrong! Damon is the worst option of all….
Figgins would be a great pickup, but not for the money he’ll get.
I hope that’s how the Mets fill their void in left field….
That would make my day!
November 21st, 20098:41 pm
How can you say we got burned last year. Last year, we had Jurrjens and Hudson hurt, with the promise of an eventual Hanson.
We needed starters badly, whose names weren’t Campillo, Parr, Reyes and Carlyle.
We might have overpaid, as value goes, for Lowe. But in the FA market, when have you seen a top player (read experienced, successful starter) NOT get overpaid?
We did not overpay for Vazquez in trade value, nor Kawakami in FA pay.
All three were very good investments. If we had 20/20 forward vision, and KNEW that Hanson would do what he did, and that Medlen would be seriviceable, then we might not have signed Lowe.
But, having Lowe here took the pressure off Jurrjens, Vazquez, Kawakami and Hanson.
Can’t see where we over paid.
No one is a bad option, the only thing that makes it a bad option is how much money we spend on them. If we could land Dye who most of us dont want lol if we could sign him for 2-3 million i’m sure we would change our minds lol
The Tooner Field Experience is amongst the worst in the counrty…
If it wasn’t for the chicks that go to Tooner Field then I’d be content at staying at the Pad and watching the game on TV or better yet going to Gwinnett County to watch the AAA team….
50 dollars to watch a game and watch our offense score 2 runs on 5 hits isn’t worth it, especially having to spend an hour in traffic
November 21st, 20098:44 pm
November 21st, 2009
Good win, richbrave, Keeper – Richmond kicks a 48 yard FG as time expires for a 13-10 win…
I know that must be galling to swallow. I was there, and frankly, both teams deserved to win. The punting was the only difference in my estimation. RICHMOND got better depth on their’s by 10 or so feet. Be interesting to see the box tomorrow, to verify my feeling.
W&M’s touchdown play was a thing of beauty. The play was a delay route single deep. The RICHMOND back had the receiver one on one and bit on an outside fake. The W&M guy cut over the middle instead and was wide open, then waltzed to the five before pursuit caught up. In making the tackle, momentum carried both WR and DB into the end-zone. A very even game. As close as RICHMOND-VILLANOVA two weeks ago.
Sorry, VJ, but don’t fret. LAYCOCK’s young men are in the playoff series and will go deep IMO. The “GREEN MACHINE” may play in the CHATTANOOGA classic if things break the right way for them. If they get there I’ll recommend a great B&B that put us up last year. Later.
Wayne in UT
I was making the case that we overpaid for D. Lowe because we were so pressed to get a pitcher that was an innings eater. The trade for Vazquez may have been the most shrewd/underrated trade of last offseason especially for the fact that we got Logan and Easy-E in that deal as well….
And if we didn’t get him then we would’ve overpaid for AJ Burnett, which would’ve been a bigger bust and more money than D. Lowe
November 21st, 20098:46 pm
Just read this. Good writing DOB. But… the list of targets in there is disappointing. I miss the days when the team had the tough choice of signing Greg Maddux or Barry Bonds. Byrd, Cameron, Nady, Dye, Willingham or DeRosa… I can hardly contain the excitement
November 21st, 20098:47 pm
Enter your comments here
November 21st, 20098:48 pm
My point was this. In the free agent market, after Burnett and Sabathia were signed, Lowe was the best option available. We either pay him the 15 x 4 or we don’t get him. You always overpay in those situations. So, you really can’t say you overpaid if you paid market value. Being forced to that situation means you pay the going rate, or you rely on Jorge Campillo or James Parr.
November 21st, 20098:49 pm
“Just read this. Good writing DOB. But… the list of targets in there is disappointing. I miss the days when the team had the tough choice of signing Greg Maddux or Barry Bonds.”
I miss the glory days as well
November 21st, 20098:50 pm
I agree with than man. If they lowered consession prices and maybe went to a 500% profit other than 1000% profit, it would help attendance. And winning is the key to attendance. Attendance shouldnt effect payroll, if you want attendance try fielding a playoff team like were used too. 14 consectutive division titles and the a 4 yr drought! of course attendance is gonna drop, Also people cant afford to go to the game and enjoy thereselves. Yes they can afford a ticket but there gonna starve and be thirsty. i rather be home kicked back watching the game. I rather go to a Tides games which is the AAA O’s team like 10 minutes from me. Minor league games are alot of fun and the prices arnt as extreme. Lower prices mean more people, meaning it balances itself out. Why have 15k there with regualr prices and the normal extreme consession/merchandise prices when there could be 40k+ regular ticket prices lower merchandise conssesion. They complain no one comes to the game but yet dont do anything about it….
November 21st, 20098:51 pm
Wayne In Ut
Understood…We got Burned by the Market Value. Assuming that Lowe is on the roster next year he’d better have motivation to prove that his 2009 season was an aberration or he really is gonna be in the braves fans doghouse…
November 21st, 20098:52 pm
richbrave – still speechless from the game? – Congratulations!
November 21st, 20098:54 pm
This is going to get interesting with a top dollar type pitcher in Josh Johnson with the most frugal team in MLB, the Marlins.
MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro gathered a bit more information on the failed talks, including this quote from Johnson’s agent:
“We talked twice for a total of 30 minutes. Everything happened this week. There were no hard feelings about it, no harsh words. They offered us a deal that we felt was way under market value for the dollars and years.”
We didnt overpay DLowe. We needed him period. Yes we overpaid for the performance we recieved but its not a total bad signing. Take DLowe off the 2009 roster and this team is alot worse.
November 21st, 20098:56 pm
I been to AAA games in Memphis and paid 6 bucks for a ticket beyong the OF wall…
What an experience that is and plus you’re right next to Beale Street
The thing that sucks about Atlanta is that you have to drive 45 minutes to get everywhere and for a city that claims to be an “International City” Atlanta is still stuck in the conservative “Old South” B.S. but I’m not going to elaborate on that…I’ll leave that for another time…
And its a shame that I work with more bandwagon yankees fans than true braves fans, “Go Figure?”
November 21st, 20098:58 pm
The Marlins are screwed no matter what lol. they have a 36 million payroll. Imagine putting Arod on there roster….. that means they would only have 7 million to use on the rest of the team lol. Josh Johnson will eventually be a Yankee or Redsox.
Sorry VJ, both teams deserved to win. The punting made the difference IMO. Neither defense gave up much. The one play W&M scored a touch on was a thing of beauty. A delay, single deep. When the D-back bit on the WR side-line fake, the receiver cut to the center of the field and took it to the five before pursuit caught up. Momentum carried WR and DB into the end-zone. Outstanding call by Coach LAYCOCK.
RICHMOND continues to have kicking problems. ANDREW HOWARD was a student of my wife’s as a soph. I wasn’t sure he’d survive as kicker, but he has and redeemed misses from 27 and 40 today. The 48 yarder was the longest of his career. This will be the SPIDERS’ achilles-heel going into the play-offs.
Don’t fret. The “GREEN MACHINE” will go deep into the play-offs IMO. If things break for them like they did for RICHMOND last year, they could be playing in CHATTANOOGA. If they do I’ll recommend a great B&B where we stayed last year.
You guys thinking LaRoche is “just average” defensively, huh? Let me just go on record and say I strongly disagree, and I’ll leave it at that. DOB
I said he wasn’t the 26th worst Fbman in baseball like some of the defensive metrics say he is.I’m not sure where you saw me say he is average., cause I don’t remember doing so. My comments were directed towards not getting too invested in defensive stats.
For the record I would not put him in the top 8 or so, but after that? once you get out of the top 8 and the bottom 8 or so I guess what’s left is average, so in that sense I guess I think he is, though in the top half of average. He has good hands and he is very smooth which makes him look better than he is.Lacks range and lacks focus at times. Good point about his arm, it is certainly well above average for a firstbaseman, but that is the least desired of the 5 tools at that position as far as scouts are concerned.
November 21st, 20099:00 pm
My posts keep disappearing. I put up two long ones to you and made sure I hit the correct button.
November 21st, 20099:01 pm
I put up two long ones to you
Thaht’s what she said.
“We talked twice for a total of 30 minutes. Everything happened this week. There were no hard feelings about it, no harsh words. They offered us a deal that we felt was way under market value for the dollars and years.”
“We’ll offer you $30/game, plus$6 per diem. But wait! We’ll even offer a discounted membership rate to the team weightroom. Whaddaya say?”
November 21st, 20099:02 pm
Everything else is going through. Maybe they’re being filtered out or are being reviewed, although I wouldn’t know why. Both teams deserved to win. Great game. I’ll try a third time with some details, but later.
want Chone Figgins to be our leadoff hitter who can give Hoss a day off a week. Sure his defense is suspect but the man almost had a .400 OBP last year, Tomahawkin
what are you talking about? Chose is a plus defender at third, there isn’t anything suspect about his fielding. The only thing suspect about him is why he can’t spell his first name correctly.
November 21st, 20099:03 pm
Not trying to be a Lowe apologist, but in 34 starts, he had 9 what I would call bad starts. In the other 25 starts, he gave up 3 or less earned runs, and pitched at least 5+ innings.
To be honest, it wasn’t his best work, but it also wasn’t far off from his career record either. He put us in a position to win up to 25 games out of 34.
If Lowe moves a bit closer to his career norms, and if Vazquez does the same, there will be little difference between them. I would prefer Vazquez, but we have to deal him to make the team better, then I don’t think we have a huge drop off to Derek Lowe.
Gotta run. Be back later…..
November 21st, 20099:05 pm
but that is the least desired of the 5 tools at that position as far as scouts are concerned.
along with foot speed which I managed to leave out of my above post. olds timers is gettin’ the best of me
November 21st, 20099:08 pm
Chone? Dwyane? Andruw? Interesting versions of common names.
I had a friend about 20 years ago that spelled all his kids names different than what is common. I guess that’s one way of being unique.
November 21st, 20099:10 pm
My bad Man, I was referring to the fact that Figgins isn’t a gold glover everywhere he plays since he has play multiple positions throughout his career…
but he’s solid at 3rd when he plays 3rd-base…
November 21st, 20099:12 pm
Chone? Dwyane? Andruw? Interesting versions of common names Wayne
but at least Andruw and Dwyane are pronounced like they look more or less huh? How does Chone equate to Shawn?
Bill from ohio
November 21st, 20099:13 pm
I don’t see how we can’t sign laroche. If we let him go then sign a power bat then were just going to be the same team as last year as there is’nt any real power bats that we’ll be able to sign. Laroche will hit 20-30 hr. so we would have to get someone that will hit 30-40 just to stay the same power wise (if Laroche leaves).
My bad Man, I was referring to the fact that Figgins isn’t a gold glover everywhere he plays Thawkin
gotcha ya. after I posted that i figured out what you probably meant. -slaps own forehead hard!!
November 21st, 20099:21 pm
I can hear the Marlins GM whining that the “lawyer tried to charged me two hours @ $250 an hour to talk to those people. If the other guys hadn’t let on it was only 30 minutes total, I’d have gotten screwed”.
November 21st, 20099:28 pm
Chone is the new Sean
Rob (from SC)
November 21st, 20099:43 pm
do you think there would be any hard feelings from Mark DeRosa, because of how the Braves non-tendered him after he tore his ACL?
November 21st, 20099:44 pm
Josh Johnson to the Yankees for Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero and Joba Chamberlain.
The Marlins should do it
November 21st, 20099:53 pm
what happened to Kansas this year? Seemed like they were hot early this year but have fallen apart. Of course 99% of college football teams would fall apart against Texas.
P. W. Hjort
November 21st, 200910:02 pm
Chone Figgins is a good high-OBP, low power hitter and third-baseman. The Braves need neither thing.
November 21st, 200910:07 pm
Marlins should do that trade Rob but I cannot imagine the Yankees would. Their 2 top prospects that are basically major league ready plus Joba – that is a lot. That would probably be a good start to a Halladay trade
November 21st, 200910:09 pm
I hear what you’re saying on ticket prices but Turner Field has to be one of the most affordable stadiums in the country and they have some good promotions like two for the price of one in the outfield on Wed. You can also bring in food so if you have a family its best to do that and cheaper. Its the reason i go to more Braves games than Falcons and Hawks, the affordability. Of course it can’t compare price wise to minor league games but in terms of big league prices we have to have some of the cheapest. Couldn’t imagine paying what Yankee, Phillies, Red Sox, and Mets fans pay on average for tickets.
November 21st, 200910:14 pm
but both of those previous Braves 1Bs were outstanding, Teixeira being off-the-charts.
[sigh] I miss Teixeira.
November 21st, 200910:15 pm
But Halladay would require a contract extension. Johnson is a lot younger. I think Montero would be the holdup. Jackson and Chamberlain would be replaceable
I doubt DeRosa will be an option for us with all the interest that he has had. And i had enough of Garret’s defense last year so I really hope Dye isn’t a serious option. Cameron might be a good call and he shouldn’t be difficult to sign coming from the ATL area, but he’s like a career .250 hitter. However, he will provide at least 20 HR and plays good OF, so I wouldn’t freak out if we signed him. Nady might actually be a good call, but he’s a gamble, and we’re really not in a position to gamble.
There’s been zero rumors today by the way:(
November 21st, 200910:16 pm
I miss Teixeira. RG
Meixeira do too
November 21st, 200910:27 pm
I hope we trade Vazquez rather than Lowe. Vazquez had a career year last year and I seriously doubt he will be able to come close to that next year. If we trade him now we should be able to get something of great value. I would love to be able to get Matt Gamel from the Brewers. Then we have a successor to Chipper. We certainly couldn’t get Gamel by trading Lowe right now. And I rather keep Lowe than to have to eat part of his salary. IMO Lowe will bounce back this year. This time last year everyone thought Lowe was better than Vazquez. I still think that way just Vazquez had a career year is all. And if they do trade Lowe I hope they don’t sign Vazquez to an extension. His numbers will only go down from here on out so we don’t need another expensive aging pitcher in our rotation for years to come.
November 21st, 200910:36 pm
Meixeira do too nolie
I see what you did there.
November 21st, 200910:39 pm
I like your post. It makes since cuz they want prospects for one of their pitchers and if you want a good return it’ll be way more likely with Javy. Gammel would be a perfect fit becuz you could fill him at 1B til Freeman’s ready then slide him to 3rd. Our staff will still be one of the best next year without Javy. They just wanna deal Lowe for payroll flexiblity rather than production reasons. Javy for Gammel would be great, but would the Brewers make that deal for one year of Javy???
November 21st, 200910:41 pm
VCU beat Oklahoma today – at least my secondary alma mater had a good win (not counting W&M beating Manhattan in hoops) – does not make up for the heartbreaking loss to UR, however…
November 21st, 200910:51 pm
Norton – I am sure the Braves will strongly consider gamel for Vazquez but we would probably also want 1-2 more low level but good arm pitching prospects I would guess. Gamel could hopefully play 1B for a few years then slide over to 3B when Chipper retires and freeman is ready. We could then use the money to address the closer situation and LF. Gamel is still a prospect and defense is not his forte.
Of course if Texas would move Justin smoak I would move Vazquez for him in a heartbeat (assuming Vazquez would waive his no trade clause) – Texas would probably try to stick us with Davis. It does seem that the Braves are not high on Cruz.
Good thing is that LIberty media does not seem to be forcing FW’s hand. He is not only holding the cards, he is holding an ace. Vazquez will come cheaper than Halladay but still fetch a good price. Also , after Lackey there just isn’t that much out there and people do not seem to be terribly excited about Lackey like they were about CC
I’ve never said Lowe was better than Vazquez (so not “everyone” thought so contrary to Norton’s assertion). I predicted that Vazquez would pitch great here. And if he stays, I predict that he’ll have another solid season. Though maybe not as great numbers wise overall. Still, I expect him to pitch better than Lowe this season.
To sum it up, Wren would be wise to trade Lowe (and take whatever he can get for him), then sign Vazquez to a longer contract a la Hudson.
November 21st, 200910:54 pm
Bravo man I think the Brewers will jump at that trade because they do not really have a place for Gamel right now
These will never happen but what would everyone think:
Jurrjens for Ryan Braun
Escobar for youkilis
Jurrjens for Ethier or Kemp
Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez
Jurrjens for Josh Johnson
trading for Cody Ross (LF and backup CF)
November 21st, 200910:55 pm
Jeff – only question about your scenario – how do the Braves extend vazquez and acquire a big bat for LF and 1B?
November 21st, 200910:56 pm
If the Brewers are our trade partner what would you all prefer -
Vazquez for Gamel or
Jurrjens for Braun (with Gamel moving into LF for the Brewers)
November 21st, 200911:05 pm
Jurrjens for Ryan Braun – I’d do it.
Escobar for youkilis – I’d probably do it.
Jurrjens for Ethier or Kemp – Kemp definitely. Ethier probably.
Jurrjens for Adrian Gonzalez – Eh. Maybe.
Jurrjens for Josh Johnson – Why? Sure.
trading for Cody Ross (LF and backup CF) – Eh.
Vazquez for Gamel.
November 21st, 200911:18 pm
I think some are overrating Gamel. I’d want more for Vazquez than just Gamel. Unless of course they simply can’t find a taker for Lowe and need to dump salary. Pretty sure Wren won’t get himself in that position though. Vazquez is coming off a year in which he was a top 4 pitcher in the NL, and we are trading him for one single prospect?
November 21st, 200911:22 pm
Vazquez for B. J. Upton. Straight up.
Who would do it?
November 21st, 200911:23 pm
You bring up a good point. Gamel is a man without a position. Wren will take of it.
November 21st, 200911:31 pm
There were some discussing earlier in the week about Zack Greinke winning the Cy Young with only 16 wins, and doing it for a losing team in KC. I think this next statement from Jon Heyman’s latest (not sure how recent it is – but it’s his latest) column on si.com:
“Congrats to Zack Greinke, who deserved the Cy Young. Against the seven AL teams with at least 85 wins, he was 7-3 with a 1.03 ERA. Not bad.”
“Not bad” doesn’t begin to describe how impressive that is. Simply amazing is more like it. Though I realize that the rumors were just that, and likely were hogwash….
Anybody out there still think that a Francoeur for Greinke trade wouldn’t have been a bad move a couple of years ago while Greinke was still trying to figure it out? LOL
Maybe Dayton Moore will have one too many drinks at the winter meetings and Wren can pull one over on him. Tell him we’ll throw in KJ too. Moore will wake up the next day and realize that we don’t even control Francoeur anymore. It’ll be a “fast one”!
Good win for the TRIBE on thursday. Our basketball team was a little too much of “we’re all that” after burying VMI. Got to say they did look awsome monday evening.
November 21st, 200911:33 pm
Ran across this the other day. Always makes me laugh. To anybody who hasn’t seen this before, enjoy…..
November 21st, 200911:37 pm
richbrave – how can anyone get excited about beating VMI?
Looking forward to the playoff announcement tomorrow – I will be hoping for a decent draw…
November 21st, 200911:45 pm
O.K. JIM, I’ll give it one more go.
The teams are as even as RICHMOND-VILLANOVA. I think punting made the difference. The defenses pretty much stymied the offenses all day. Field position was critical in this game, and I thought the Spiders had a three to four yard advantage per punt. I’ll check the stats in the a.m. At any rate, we had good field position on three or four occasions, but missed 27 and 40 yard FG’s. W&M really had that advantage only twice, and one ended in an interception as I recall.
But the GREEN MACHINE’s scoring touch play was awesome. It was a delay pass, single WR deep. When the receiver faked toward the side-line, the DB bit, and the wide-out cut to the middle completely naked. The W&M Q-back lay the ball right in his hands in stride, and he was off to the races. The pursuit safety caught up at the five, but momentum carried them both into the end-zone. LAYCOCK had an absolutely perfect call.
It really is a shame someone had to lose. The TRIBE will go deep into the play-offs IMO, and with luck like U of R had last year, might be in CHATTANOOGA for the title game. If that happens I’ll give you the name of a great B&B to stay downtown.
November 22nd, 200912:01 am
Just sent you another descriptive post that disappeared. So I’ll just say we both deserved to win and its a shame one team had to lose.
November 22nd, 200912:03 am
Field position was the difference. Punting accounted for it in my book. Check the stats for yards punting.
November 22nd, 200912:05 am
Hey, your coach said it I didn’t. “We beat an NCAA caliber team tonight.”
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