12:05 am November 17, 2009, by David O'Brien
November 17th, 200910:04 am
aaron, its been said here many times that the Yanks are not interested in D.Lowe, so you can stop beating that dead horse.
November 17th, 200910:05 am
dpelfrey, why don’t you just open the roster and let they White Sox take any body and anything they want. That’s way too much for way too little.
Nolie…..Carlos Delgado?!?! HELL to the NO!
November 17th, 200910:07 am
Cabrera, Cabrera, Cabrera
November 17th, 200910:08 am
Should be every Brave fan’s mantra
Dave, thanks for the new blog. Hope you are feeling better this morning
dpelfrey…..I think I read some sarcasim in your 9:29, if not, that is the morning’s comical relief.
November 17th, 200910:11 am
Thanks for the heads up on the show tonight. I would’ve hated to miss those two live.
November 17th, 200910:12 am
I’m with you on the LaRoche thing. I think he is the best option on the table. If we have to sign him for 3 years so be it. There’s a lot of talk about not blocking Freeman’s path by signing a long term contract at first base. Freeman has done nothing in the minors to make me think he is going to be better than LaRoche over next 3 years. Freeman looks good, but he’s also 20 years old… he’s got plenty of time to ripen.
November 17th, 200910:15 am
Love the metaphore, “plenty of time to ripen”.
November 17th, 200910:17 am
Cabrera is low hanging fruit, and I bet Detroit would knock a few rungs off the ladder.
November 17th, 200910:20 am
Say, swap Lowe’s salary and give the Braves 5 million a year for 3 years if Freeman and Schafer were included in the deal. They are shopping Granderson and will need a CF.
November 17th, 200910:21 am
A high BA, high OBA hitter who makes consistant solid contact would be of much more value to the Braves [than a slugger].
And if the Braves needed such a hitter, you would be correct. Unfortunately, they need a hitter for the fourth spot, and that means a good average, good OBP, AND good slugging. It’s not either-or for this team.
It is unbelievable that a manager could manage for over 20 years and not understand the absolute necessity for teaching/ emphasizing/ demanding that your hitters work the count, be selective, make the opposing pitcher throw some pitchers.
Somebody help Don here, he’s been sucked into the “working the count” mantra. Who’s got links, LOL?
November 17th, 200910:25 am
You all see, in 3 years our Hall of Fame 3rd baseman will not be making 14 million a year from the Braves.
November 17th, 200910:27 am
It solves 1st base, and right handed power for the next 6 years.
November 17th, 200910:29 am
He’s 26 and his best friend is Martin Prado for crying out loud.
Eyeball Kid- Cabrera already has a hard enough time remaining sober for a one game playoff and now you are asking him to climb a ladder that is missing rungs. That seems problematic.
November 17th, 200910:34 am
Wren will make an astonishing deal. Maybe not this one, but one nobody sees comming. He (Wren) is that good.
Why would anyone think Willingham is even a slight upgrade over what we already have??? Matt Diaz is better in every way other than having less HR power….but look at ops…avg…defensively…baserunning…on and on
November 17th, 200910:38 am
Remember who managed the Tigers in 2009. Without the help of Eric Gregg, Leyland never wins a title.
November 17th, 200910:42 am
Let us not lay the Tiger’s collapse at Cabrera’s feet. This team was managed by Leyland when it was swept in the WS by a team that won 83 regular season games.
scoots,I hope you are watching your boys playing-they look good.
November 17th, 200910:45 am
eyeball kid-Maybe you should have taken part in yesterday’;s conversation about Cabrera. Dude is making $21 million a year for the next six years and rang up a breathalizer three times more than the legal limit the night before the Tigers’ one game playoff. Dream on. That one just won’t ever happen. Unless they signed Furcal to be his drinking partner.
November 17th, 200910:46 am
Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!
hey, we’re blogging, I can’t keep looking up spelling of his name
…get it, willing? OK, late.
I hear tell when Leyland managed the Rockies for what, a year, that he slept in the managers office. Never took a residence in Denver and played piano in a bar near Coors Field.
November 17th, 200910:47 am
Read my 10:20 and 10:46.
November 17th, 200910:49 am
Mitchie-san — I would have to consider that trade, even with Prado. If I couldn’t talk them into Kelly plus another 2nd level prospect, I think I would trade Prado. You can’t get a guy like Adrian Gonzalez without pain.
November 17th, 200910:52 am
Do you sell porch furniture?
No pain, there is a bonafide slugger playing 1st base for the Tigers that can be had.
November 17th, 200911:02 am
Good luck to Buddy Carlyle in Japan!
November 17th, 200911:11 am
Daslied,our boy Paul will be happy.
November 17th, 200911:12 am
Detroit Tigers slugger Miguel Cabrera(notes) was drunk—three times above Michigan’s legal limit for driving, according to police—between two key games over the weekend as his team was trying to win the American League Central title.
MINNEAPOLIS (AP)—Detroit star Miguel Cabrera(notes) apologized to his teammates for being drunk last weekend while the Tigers were trying to clinch the AL Central title, then delivered two big hits in Tuesday night’s tiebreaker loss to Minnesota.
Seems that Cabrera has given new meaning to the term D.H.
November 17th, 200911:13 am
eyball kidCabrera is low hanging fruit, and I bet Detroit would knock a few rungs off the ladder.
im not sure i understand your analogy…(wouldnt knocking rungs off make it HARDER to get low hanging fruit?) but anyways, cabrera makes to much money for the braves to pursue. no player is worth what he is making and it will hamstring this team. if he was making maybe $30mil less over the next 6 years, then it might be worth going after him.
scootsthey need a hitter for the fourth spot, and that means a good average, good OBP, AND good slugging. It’s not either-or for this team.
nah, average doesnt matter. and id take a guy with a meager .333OBP if he was slugging .550 for us. slg% is where the need for the braves is right now.
November 17th, 200911:16 am
macdwolfpack & Rock On……
Definitely sarcasm. I confused myself with that one. Even better idea…three way trade. Konerko, Flowers and Lillibridge to Braves…Jurrjens & Infante to Tigers…Vazquez & Ordonez to ChiSox.
I love circular trades. Does anyone else confuse the Tigers & White Sox? I swear sometimes they seem like the same team.
November 17th, 200911:20 am
Eyeball Kid — We sure see a lot of that furniture around here, but that’s not my game. I’m retired.. into vintage guitars as a hobby and make a buck now and then.
well so long buddy carlyle…signed with nippon ham fighters
November 17th, 200911:21 am
Cliff, I wish such lists were readily available or provided by Braves. Alas, they are not. And I’m not going through the entire organization trying to find the guys who fit the Rule 5 qualifications. I’ll let you know when I run across some between now and the draft.
November 17th, 200911:23 am
Perhaps as important as who stays and who goes(fun to discuss) is will Chipper return to form from the left side next season. Will he return to his career avg. of 1 HR/17 AB LH or will he regress in 2010 to his 2009 avg of 1 HR/ 37 AB? By my calculations Chipper would have hit another 16 HR’s and another 16 doubles LH if he had been on his career averages. If Chipper can return to form that’s power that we don’t have to increase payroll to get.
November 17th, 200911:25 am
Get some rest, DOB. — mitchie-san
“I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death.” — Nas
… and because the cold medication I took last night was playing with my mind after I woke in my recliner at about 4 a.m.
November 17th, 200911:28 am
DOB: any truth to this rumor that Daslied reported that Carlyle was going to Japan???? http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/index.php?storyid=471177
monty career averages? maybe not, but i will be surprised is chipper isnt quite a bit better next season. im thinking an average right at .300, the OBP around .400 and about a .480 slg%. im going to expect 20 homers and 30 doubles out of him.
November 17th, 200911:29 am
If the Braves decide to trade argueable our best pitcher Vazquez, can’t they find a way to make a 3 way trade where A. Gonzalez comes to the Braves and the 3rd team sends players to San Diego? Seems like that could get done!
November 17th, 200911:31 am
Bravofan: That’s not just a rumor about Buddy signing with Nippon. It was announced early this morning; I just saw it on Kyodo news service after Bravesfan1984 mentioned it a few minutes ago.
Hey, it happens. Journeymen pitchers often go over to Japan. Buddy himself pitched there in 2001-2002.
November 17th, 200911:32 am
bry22: three-way trades are rare in baseball; it’s not like the NBA, where they happen fairly frequently.
thanks I definitley did not see that coming!
Enter your comments here
November 17th, 200911:33 am
The amazing thing continues to be that the Braves plan/ worry/ fret relating to all kinds of options relating to trades and/or signing free agents — and yet continue to ignore the simple action that would address the team’s major problem and would do more to improve the team than and addition of a player or players — RELEASE BOBBY COX.
November 17th, 200911:36 am
Just checking the splits on Diaz vs lefties and righties. Guy hit lefties like crazy last year (.412). He only needs to bring up his avg vs RHP, like he did in 2007 and he’s gonna be a good asset next year.
November 17th, 200911:38 am
Attaboy, Don. We can always count on such compelling comments from you. Now get back to us in a few weeks with another one, OK? Thanks.
Don, give up on the thought of Bobby Cox getting released. It ain’t happening. He’s our manager for one more year and everyone needs to learn to accept it.
Eric from MO
November 17th, 200911:41 am
Doug I would guess Willingham would be the third OF till Heyward is assumed ready. I thought there was a good chance he would make the roster in ST if he did well in AFL but he obviously didnt get a chance too. So my guess Willingham would be brought in for the first couple months then moved to the 4th OF or traded when Heyward is ready. One reason I dont believe the Braves will get him. They are not going to give up alot for a 2 month starting OF.
November 17th, 200911:42 am
DAP…Thanks for clearing up that Willingham is a better option than Uggla. I would have never figured that out on my own. Here’s the problem, this team needs a “big bat”, not some guy who might really produce. What good is 20HR 85 RBI season going to do?? They can get that from LaRoche. If they really want to be contenders thay will clear whatever money they can, even if they have to trade Javy, and get either Holliday or Bay. But, of course they won’t, those guys will end up in Boston or NY, and the Braves will come up short again. I hope I’m wrong, but it seems to me that barring a big trade, the Braves will try to fix their problems on the cheap, like the always do, and will regret it down the road.
November 17th, 200911:44 am
I redid the numbers on Chipper and he would have hit 10 more HR LH and 7 more doubles if whe had been on his career avgs. last year. Not quite as pronounced as earlier stated. But still a big drop-off that would be great to recover next year.
November 17th, 200911:46 am
DOB, How much of LaRoche’s 2nd half numbers do you equate to him just being slow to warm up. I think he may just be more comfortable in Atlanta with Chipper, Nate and Bobby. I think he’d put up much better 1st half numbers in Atlanta than he would anywhere else. What do you think?
November 17th, 200911:47 am
Dayn Perry says the Braves should trade for Adrian Gonzalez, and that a package built around Freeman and/or Schafer should do it.
November 17th, 200911:49 am
If Chipper would have been Chipper last year, I think they win a lot more than 86 games. It they can get a proven power bat I think Chippers decline in power wont be as noticable…but it kindof hindered them in cituations last year.
So, Don, if the players on the roster don’t make such a difference, then tell us why Atlanta was sucktabulous for most of the 80s before Bobby arrived?
November 17th, 200911:50 am
Going to miss Buddy C. Felt terrible for him this year with his illness. Really nce guy. Always signed autographs for the kids and gave my son his hat after the last game of the season last year. Good luck in Japan!
njbravesThanks for clearing up that Willingham is a better option than Uggla. I would have never figured that out on my own.
not exactly what i said, but your welcome. let me know if you need any more help.
What good is 20HR 85 RBI season going to do?? They can get that from LaRoche.
what if they get it from laroche and another player? thats not gonna help? besides, there is more than one way to help the team score. the braves got on base alot last year. they were really good at it. the problem is that they need some extra base hits to give those runners a chance to score. extra base hits come in alot of different forms which is why i think you should be paying attention to slg% rather than just a homerun total. willingham slugged almost .500 last year, which is pretty good.
November 17th, 200911:54 am
Dayn Perry isn’t exactly a Braves expert. And if he think Freeman and/or Schafer is enough he is wrong. But I’d be ecstatic to be wrong in this case.
November 17th, 200911:55 am
Don – GIVE IT A REST – PLEASE!!
njbraves – they must do it “on the cheap”, because the owners have given them a budget. The baseball people would love to have Ted Turner money again, and go out and get who they want. That is the reality, and I think they are doing pretty well with what they have to work with. BTY, at least we have a reasonable budget. What if you rooted for Reds, Kansas City, San Diego, etc., etc.
Sure, if Frank Wren wants to get all crazy, he could probably trade for Adrian Gonzalez by offering Freeman, Schafer, Teheran, Delgado, and Hoover. But I don’t expect a move that large. Nor do I expect one that would gut the farm like that one would.
November 17th, 200912:00 pm
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/atlanta-braves/fantasy-news Nationals reportedly intersted in Mike “rocker” Gonzalez. If I’m Mike why would I even consider playing for them!?!?!?
November 17th, 200912:02 pm
Bravofan, for the same reason Adam Dunn is playing for them. I hope he doesn’t though. I like him in a Braves Uni.
November 17th, 200912:03 pm
I think the Braves need to sign Yuni to a long term deal right now his salary is a mere $425,000. take a look at the salaries of some Braves players on this list http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/atlanta-braves/salary
November 17th, 200912:04 pm
yea its all about the $$$$$ but I would take a pay cut and play for a team that is a contender
November 17th, 200912:06 pm
NewsFlash!! Josh Willingham is not the power hitter the Braves lack he is not the missing piece of the puzzle by any stretch of the imagination.
November 17th, 200912:11 pm
He said a package built around Freeman and/or Schafer not just those two alone.
DOB’s Twitter thing is getting a plug on MLBTR.
November 17th, 200912:16 pm
Bravofan, newsflash, that info on Gonzalez is 4 days old, just sayin.
November 17th, 200912:28 pm
DOB, How much of LaRoche’s 2nd half numbers do you equate to him just being slow to warm up. I think he may just be more comfortable in Atlanta with Chipper, Nate and Bobby. I think he’d put up much better 1st half numbers in Atlanta than he would anywhere else. What do you think? –sidslidkid
LaRoche has been dramatically improved in the second half during five of his six major league seasons, including two of his three seasons with the Braves at the beginning of his career and all of his past three seasons. It really is uncanny, the dichotomy between his first and second halves.
The only exception was 2005, his second season, when he hit .275 with 11 homers and an .810 OPS in the first half, and .240 with nine homers and a .731 OPS in the second half.
During every other season, including the last four in a row, he’s hit about 50 or more points higher with an OPS of 100-200 points higher in the second half (this year it was .250 with a .783 OPS in the first half, and .311 with a .915 OPS in the second half).
To answer your question: I don’t really see any reason to think he’s going to change his career pattern. Maybe he will, but I have no reason to think that. It’s five out of six seasons, and four in a row. It is what it is.
November 17th, 200912:40 pm
I’m not expecting an All-Star appearance from Adam in 2010. I expect his first half numbers to be lower than his second half, but not as drastic of a difference between the two halves if he is somewhere comfortable (Atlanta). He may be the best option for the Braves if you’re talking about bang for your buck.
November 17th, 200912:50 pm
25 homeruns a year is 25 homeruns a year. That 25 HR’s would be the highest of any Brave.
At Adam’s lowest point, he is better than Kotchman. I don’t know of a better option than Adam. Freeman may or may not ever be equal to Adam.
There is no such thing as blocking an average AA player, no matter how projectable his talent is. We traded for Adam, we can trade him away in 2 years.
The Braves are in the business of winning, not developing.
November 17th, 200912:51 pm
Do you know any plans for Braves prospect LHP Brett DeVall. He was the compensation pick for Mahay a couple years back. He played high school ball near where I live. He was very dominate against some of the better teams in the state. Just wondering if you know any plans for him.
November 17th, 200912:58 pm
DeVall tried to throw some in Instructional, but elbow was still a problem and he had it scoped. He’s shut down for the winter but should be throwing in spring training. He did not have to have the TJ surgery.
November 17th, 20091:00 pm
Thanks rico. Just curious as to how he was doing.
Willingham is not the answer. His glove is weak and is injury prone. Schafer, Freeman, and a few other lesser prospects for Adrian Gonzalez? Dream on..
November 17th, 20091:02 pm
Heading to NOLA tomorrow for the Auerbach show .. you gotta let me know if he shows for the show you’re going to … also, did you get the message I sent the other day about SP?
November 17th, 20091:09 pm
I like either Willingham or Nady to fill the outfield spot. Laroche to play first and try to get Wagner to close. Move either Vazquez or Lowe for relief help and prospects. I just dont think we’re going to get the big bat we need. Guys that can hit 20+ hr and be productive will help us. Good pitching and solid offense could get us in the playoffs.
November 17th, 20091:16 pm
Hey DOB! I took me a while but the Monsters of Folk disk has really grown on me. Good stuff. Right now I have the Black Crowes Amorica in my CD player and can’t take it out. I bought that cd about 15 years ago and didn’t really like it at the time so I only gave it a couple of spins, but I put it in on a whim a week ago and it’s a brilliant disc. I’m really loving it.
November 17th, 20091:17 pm
I don’t see that a championship team would have players like LaRoach and Willingham taking up key positions of 1B and OF. Not unless they are extremely strong in all or most of the other positions. They are strong at C and SS but good/not strong in all the other positions.
It may be the best options out there but that doesn’t mean spend.
If the goal of the Braves is to chug along and contend for a wild card spot next year with no reasonable chance to excell in the postseason, that would be a good move.
If the goal is to win a championship in the next few years, they need to pass. Save the money. Don’t get caught in a D.Lowe type contract. The real window of oportunity for the Braves is 2011+ anyway.
November 17th, 20091:20 pm
I thought it was 2010 or bust- now it has moved up to 2011.Geez
November 17th, 20091:24 pm
The Nipple Ham Fighters got signifigantly better today.
Theres no way the Braves will get involved in big trades that will drain the farm like Gonzalez. We don’t have the money to ink Bay or Holliday. So we have to take whats available. Cruz in Texas would be good but I don’t see them getting rid of him. We have to piece what we can together now to compete. Willingham and Laroche are only temporary options until the farm is major league ready.
November 17th, 20091:40 pm
Why so many so often ask when we going to wrap up Escobar? Who cares? Will not be free agent until after the 2013 season. He will be 31 years old then, his best days defensively at shortstop behind him. We will not know until then whether he will develop the stick for the corners as he ages. He will not cost all that much in arbitration even if he is not locked up. Why lock him up anyway considering his volatile personality? If something goes wrong, do you want the Braves stuck with an untradeable $20 plus million liability?
November 17th, 20091:41 pm
Interesting quotes on ESPN:
With Arizona Diamondbacks CEO Derrick Hall telling MLB.com that the club is “definitely adding to the payroll,” let’s take a look at where that money may go.
Hall says the team needs starting pitching, relief helps and a bench player, but he also says he expects most of the acquisitions to be made via trade.
Can I interest you in 3 years of Derek Lowe?
November 17th, 20091:46 pm
What about swapping Derek Lowe for Chris B. Young (Diamondbacks)? Young has a TERRIBLE contract based on his recent play, but could be an upside pick, and STILL is owed $20 million less than Lowe over the remainder of the contract ($19.75 million less to be exact). Also, only $3.5 million of that is owed in 2010, so the Braves pick up major flexibility for next year.
November 17th, 20091:47 pm
Good luck with the Ham Fighters Buddy.
In a related story, veteran MMA fighter Porkchop Radmonovich is joining the UFC. His unique style of bacon slapping will surely take him to the top of the contenders list for Lesner’s title. Seriously, what the hell is a Ham Fighter!
November 17th, 20091:48 pm
I have come the realization that the likes of Willingham and, to an extent, Uggla or Marlon Byrd, are not a real improvement over our boy Matt Diaz. If Heyward is ready for rf, then let’s put Diaz in lf and go get a head knocker for 1B. Someone like Prince, Derek Lee, Gonzalez, Berkman. If we put someone like that in the middle of the lineup, it makes everyone around them better. Maybe we can deal Vazquez AND Lowe for a strong group of prospects and package them for an anchor to the lineup. I would feel better with Medlen and Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder (if they extend their contract) than with Vazquez and Laroche. The key is to use our assets to stock up with prospects to go get get one of those guys.
November 17th, 20091:49 pm
From Dayn Perry of FoxSports.com
4. The Braves should trade for Adrian Gonzalez.
Adrian Gonzalez would be an upgrade for the Braves at first base. (Jeff Gross / Getty Images)
Atlanta will return one of the best rotations in the NL, but last season the offense let the Braves down. At first base, Adam LaRoche played exceptionally well but over his head, and he might land elsewhere this winter. Gonzalez constitutes a nifty upgrade. The Padres may be looking to “sell high” after Gonzalez’s career year in 2009, and they’re perpetually in cost-cutting mode. Atlanta won’t part with Jason Heyward, but a package built around Freddie Freeman and/or Jordan Schafer should get it done. In return, the Braves would get a devastating left-handed bat who’s cheap and under club control through 2011.
November 17th, 20091:52 pm
rico43..this was on talkingchop:
Brett DeVall B/T: L/L Born: 01/08/1990 Ht: 6′3″ Wt: 215
Atlanta took Brett DeVall with the 40th overall pick (their first of the draft) in the 2008 Amateur Draft. Atlanta scouted him extensively through the East Cobb program and signed him away from a University of Georgia commitment with a $1 mil bonus. He had a brief 10 inning debut in the GCL last year after signing and then made 10 solid starts for Rome this season before being shut down and eventually succumbing to Tommy John surgery in August and will probably miss most (and probably all) of the 2010 season.
When he was drafted DeVall was considered one of the top 3 high school lefties on the draft board. He has an ideal pitcher’s frame and was thought to have a clean delivery. He throws in the low 90s currently and could add some more velocity though he already possesses a mature body. He throws a an average curve and change though both have potential to become more and at age 19 in Rome he was young for the league.
DeVall was one of the hardest people for me to rank and in the end I didn’t put him on my list at all because of the injury not because of any lack of talent on his part but because I won’t see him again until probably 2011. Think about guys like Eric Cordier and Cory Rasmus who both missed full seasons to injury. They both made successful returns this year but how much of a prospect are they now? DeVall still has a ton of potential and many thought he had a ceiling of a #2 starter in the majors, but with his arm injury now his future is a bit cloudy
Richie Sexson is available.
November 17th, 20091:56 pm
I would feel better with Medlen and Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder (if they extend their contract) than with Vazquez and Laroche. – NEW CARS
You sure about that? I personally would feel MUCH better with the later option, simply because the starting pitcher usually has much more impact on a game than the 1st baseman. I also think the drop from Prince to LaRoche is much smaller than the drop from Vazquez to Medlen.
November 17th, 20091:58 pm
“Richie Sexson is available.” Man I wish we could afford him!
November 17th, 20092:01 pm
NjBraves you do realize when they got LaRoche they became one of the best teams in baseball? That 20 homeruns and 85 rbis helped considerable.
civilized white trash
what about brandon phillips from the reds and slide nitram odarp to first base. phillips has good speed and hr potential, i know i will get hammered for suggesting this cause his average aint the best but i think it could be a good fit
November 17th, 20092:02 pm
“Atlanta won’t part with Jason Heyward, but a package built around Freddie Freeman and/or Jordan Schafer should get it done.”
If those two guys plus a couple of arms could get us Adrian Gonzalez, there is no short term downside to that trade. Please let him be on to something. Please.
November 17th, 20092:04 pm
what about brandon phillips from the reds and slide nitram odarp to first base. phillips has good speed and hr potential, i know i will get hammered for suggesting this cause his average aint the best but i think it could be a good fit
I don’t think you’ll get hammered for the suggestion, Phillips is a great 2b. Problem with this idea is that Prado is WELL below average offensively as a 1b. Basically, if you can add only one bat to the lineup, it’s much cheaper to get a bat equivalent to Phillips that plays 1b than to get Phillips himself (hope that made sense).
I’m yet to see one reliable source say that Brett DeVall had Tommy John surgery.
November 17th, 20092:06 pm
However, the long term downside is 3 years from now when Atlanta is AGAIN looking for a 1st baseman, and Schafer/Freeman have developed into studs for San Diego. Have we learned nothing from the Teixeria trade?
November 17th, 20092:08 pm
Jim you dont need all-stars at every position. Yeah the Yankees won it this year with all-stars at every position but how many years did they have to throw 200 mil a year and still finish like 29 other teams. With the rotation we have all we need is solid players. The problem last year is we had 3 holes in our lineup for the first few months and that wasnt including the pitcher which made 4 automatic outs. Once we got rid of Francouer, Schafer, and Kelly the offense improved to the point where we had the 2nd best record in the 2nd half.
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