12:05 am November 17, 2009, by David O'Brien
November 20th, 20092:03 pm
joebraveI most definitely would do Gomes over Willingcrap.
ew, dude. were are not playing that game.
November 20th, 20092:05 pm
I would rather have an outfield of Ludwick, McLouth, and Heyward, vs Schafer,Mclouth, Heyward. sheesh two young guys I don’t think so.
I would also rather see the Braves attendance boost to be able to finally afford to keep some guys around for a damn while!
November 20th, 20092:06 pm
DAP/dirty mind LMAO!
beekaysay no to Cameron unless he is willing to play for Loaf money(3 mill)his #’s have deteriorated every year.
this is not true. cameron’s offensive numbers have been very steady bascially his entire career.
November 20th, 20092:08 pm
I agreee I think Heyward and Brandon Phillips in the lineup immediately increases attendance, being that they are both from the metro Atlanta area.
mike cameron is from atlanta too, and fits our needs much better.
November 20th, 20092:09 pm
DOB, somebody answered the question the other day, but I’d like to read it from you. What is the scenario involving trading somebody who accepts arbitration?
Meaning, if Soriano accepted arbitration, and either agreed on a figure with the Braves, or went through the hearing process, could the Braves then trade him? Or do guys that accept arbitration have to be kept on the roster past a certain date?
If they can trade him, I just don’t see where it would be that difficult to trade a guy riding a one year contract who is thought of as one of the top 3 relievers in MLB.
Four possible scenarios:
1) Braves offer Soriano arbitration. He signs elsewhere and Braves get two picks.
2) Braves offer him arbitration and he accepts, then is traded for a prospect or two.
3) Braves offer him arbitration and he accepts and they have him close for 8 million per year.
4) Braves sign him to a friendly 2 year deal after feeling out the market.
All the way across the board, I can’t see any real issue with offering him arbitration (unless he can’t be traded).
Just doesn’t seem like a difficult desicion. If he signs elsewhere, you get the picks. If he accepts, your forced to trade him for what amounts to less than the picks, but maybe a good prospect mixed in the trade.
Or you get NOTHING for him by not offering arbitration, and when he signs your left empty handed.
On a side note, Unless Wren has something big up his sleeve, Mike Cameron should be the one year answer in our outfield. Playing CF and moving McLouth to LF where he will eventually be anyhow. Dude wants to play in Atlanta, the Braves need a RH guy with a little pop in his bat that can play solid defense. What’s not to like?
Then use Lowe or Vazquez to trade for a solid 1B option (preferably somebody young with 3B experience to take over for Chipper at 3B when he’s done and Freeman is ready at 1B).
But like I said. I think Wren has something bigger planned. Just a hunch. Not sure if Hart is better, worse or the same as adding Cameron. But I’ve always liked Cameron, so I’m a little biased there.
But simply getting ANYTHING for a team willing to take on Lowe’s salary, allowing Wren to not only keep, but possibly extend Vazquez is a good move, imo.
Is Hart the answer? Naw. Probably not. But a rotation of Vazquez, Hudson, Hanson, KK and JJJ is so frickin solid, that just upgrading the defense of the everyday 8 might be enough of an upgrade to get excited about. Besides, from the looks of it, Wren will have 2 guys to replace in the bullpen, which to me is a bigger fish to fry than the lineup.
November 20th, 20092:11 pm
DAP one problem with Cameron, HE IS OLD
And more costly
Macon Braves (RIP)
November 20th, 20092:12 pm
Joebrave…you still didn’t explain how adding Blalock (not Blaclock since you brought up my spelling error… 8^)…), trading Lowe for Ludwig, and signing the two relievers makes the Phillips for Prado/Schafer trade make ANY sense.
And unlike you, I haven’t given up on Schafer just because his career didn’t start out like Albert Pujols or somebody. He’s still a fabulous defensive centerfielder with a TON of upside…thus a top prospect. And using prospects as trade fodder in HORRIBLE trades isn’t the the kind of idea that builds winning ball clubs.
November 20th, 20092:13 pm
beekay, ill add that cameron is still meeting or surpassing his career averages in BA, OBP, slg%, walks, homers,doubles, triples, and still plays excellent defense. he is NOT declining.
November 20th, 20092:15 pm
Macon, since you obviously have no clue about Atlanta, the population there is 70% African-American, thereby increasing the probability that Attendance will increase! is that clear enough! and yes I have given up on Radar Schafer, I watched him at Myrtle, and saw Him in Atl. He ain’t got it never will have!
civilized white trash
i brought up the brandon phillips the other day cause i thought it might be a good idea, but i was shown my mistakes and now think there are better options out there. the reason this is a bad idea is he is owed some huge amount in 2011 in 2010 his salary is tolerable but in 2011 i wana say its something like 11 mil. i think there are better option out there…. the hank blalock at first is very interesting
Al for ATL
November 20th, 20092:16 pm
I raised Corey Hart as a realistic trade candidate from the Brewers when some were dreaming that we might get Ryan Braun from them. So in the unlikely event Ken Rosenthal is right, I called it ha ha, take that, so there.
The Brewers are capital-D desperate to add a pitcher and Lowe or Vazquez will appeal as veterans who can provide some stability and leadership with their young players BUT I have a hard time thinking they take on Lowe unless the Braves eat some payroll. Especially since they’re dropping high priced veterans left and right. I also wonder if Ryan Church isn’t as good of an option as either Hart or Cameron? He was developing well and the Mets were excited to get him before he had the concussions and some lingering problems that led to tension between him and the team. Not sure how his salary compares.
And did I mention Cameron is OLD!
November 20th, 20092:21 pm
Exactly, I know Phillips contract, however is the reward of a more exciting crowd at the games and more butts in the seats worth the price of Phillips?
That is the Giraffe in the room!
Not since the likes of Ralph Garr(yes I watched him play in Atlanta), Hank Aaron,Gary Matthews, David Justice, Have the Braves had the ability to rouse the sleeping Atlanta Fanbase!
LAst 4 years .268,.242,.243,.250 BA
Way too many K’s, can’t run anymore, 36 years old and at best is probably a .250 hitter…..you really want him and are willing to pay the 5 mill minimum that he wants coming off making 10 mill???? Not me!
November 20th, 20092:22 pm
All I know is it will an exciting ride so I am gonna sit back and enjoy the hot stove percolate!
November 20th, 20092:24 pm
In this year’s Ariz Fall League, highest slugging percentage and OPS were .721 and 1.203, both by Yankees OF prospect Colin Curtis.
Last year, Tyler Flowers led the AFL with absurd .973 slugging and 1.433 OPS (second place in both categories last year was .786 and 1.223)
DOB–if the Braves offer arbitration, do the players have to accept or decline it before taking free agent offers?
November 20th, 20092:25 pm
I would rather have Frenchy over Cameron as well
Frenchy batted 30 points higher, has a better arm, struck out 60 fewer times and drove in 6 more runs and is 11 years younger with probably same salary demands
November 20th, 20092:26 pm
I could go for that!
sorry joe but phillips aint the answer i wish he was cause i like players that can run and hit for power. the other porblem is i dont thnk cincy makes a good trade partner we have starting pitching with high salaries for major league hitting they want to get rid of high salaries for prospects
November 20th, 20092:28 pm
Macon, since you obviously have no clue about Atlanta, the population there is 70% African-American, thereby increasing the probability that Attendance will increase! is that clear enough!
First of all, the population in Atlanta isn’t 70% African-American. I live just south of Atlanta and have quite a bit of family and friends that live in Atlanta, so yeah, I do have a clue about Atlanta.
Second of all, are you seriously saying that the attendance at Braves games would go up simply by adding African-American players? If so you are crazy. Phillips would NOT increase attendance.
beekay you really want him and are willing to pay the 5 mill minimum that he wants
absolutely, id do it right away. cameron is simply the best combination of speed and power on the market right now. he CAN still run, the brewers manager just didnt steal much last season. RBIs are simply a matter of where he is batting in the lineup, and let me repeat, in 2009 he matched or surpassed his career averages in BA, OBP, slg%, HR, doubles, triples and walks. he can still play, and you know exactly what you will get from him. a .250 BA, .340OBP, a slg% around .450 with homers in the mid 20s and excellent defense. cameron is probably the best buy on this years market.
November 20th, 20092:29 pm
Know what you mean brother, But it wouldn’t be a bad team!
Steve from OH
I would rather have Frenchy over Cameron as well
For 2010? Not me. Not even close. Gimme Cameron all day.
November 20th, 20092:30 pm
gee whiz, beekay. you must be insane.
Strasburg went 4-1 with a 4.26 ERA, 1.16 WHIP and 23 K and 7 walks in 19 innings in this year’s AFL. The AFL strikeout leader was reliever Robbie Weinhardt with 29 in 18-1/3 innings (strikeout leader among starters was Ian Kennedy with 28 K and 5 walks in 29-2/3 innings).
In last year’s AFL, Tommy Hanson went 5-0 with an 0.63 ERA, 0.59 WHIP and 49 K with 7 walks in 28-2/3 innings.
Macon, apparantly you don’t have any idea!
November 20th, 20092:31 pm
And with that ludicrous statement by macon i will adjourn for now! wow The U.S.Census is wrong, who woulda thunk!
Wayne in Utah
November 20th, 20092:33 pm
If I am wrong, somebody will correct me but, once a player accepts arbitration, he is off the market. That is in effect signing on.
I think there is a cutoff date that they either have to accept or decline, but I am not sure about what the date it, or for sure if I am correct.
I hope Schafer comes to spring training, tears the cover off the ball, and is everything that scouts say he could be……… just so I can bust your chops a bit!
And Really Macon, you don’t think attendance would increase, go around Turner field sometime, and ask the locals why they don’t go!
joe your team sure could compete thats for sure
semiballcoach: No, free agents can sign with other teams before accepting or declining arb offers from current teams, if they do it by Dec. 7 — that’s the deadline for them to accept arb offer from current team.
November 20th, 20092:34 pm
He won’t Wayne, He won’t!
November 20th, 20092:35 pm
Schafer lost his (HGH)m oops I mean MOJO!
Cameron strikes out 160 times and bats .250….he will cost more than Frenchy, Frenchy is 11 years younger and has a stronger arm and I’m the one crazy?? I’m not a big Frenchy fan but I also don’t want a 36 year old who struck out 160 times either
joebrave, do you like the braves because of the white players? then why do you assume black players would fill the seats with black fans? it seems like you are assigning qualities to black sports fans that may be unfair.
November 20th, 20092:36 pm
I wouldn’t mind Blalock at first (wouldn’t be my first choice, but I don’t think it would be a bad choice if other options failed) and Ludwick in Left (depending on what the trade cost is of course). But Prado is younger, cheaper, and probably better than Phillips next year so that wouldn’t be a good move. I don’t give a fat baby’s bottom if a guy is black, yellow, white, red, or whatever and neither do the vast majority of Braves fans that actually spend the money to go to the Ted to watch the games. Most people don’t give a crap of the race makeup of their team, they just want the best product on the field, and Prado is the better product for this team next year.
November 20th, 20092:38 pm
Cameron strikes out 160 times and bats .250
So what? There are more important things to player eval than BA and strikeouts, dude.
November 20th, 20092:39 pm
No I just know what I hear in the area, I am there nearly everyday, and there is a consensus among the local population , that the Team has a prejudice. I am not advocating either side, Just stating facts.
If you don’t believe what i am saying is true, let Wren trade for Phillips, and Heyward get the rf job then check back on that.
Joebrave—I guess you’ve gone around the neighborhood surrounding Turner Field and done a poll yourself then huh? I doubt it and I think your wrong. Braves fans that don’t attend games aren’t staying home because there aren’t enough black people on the team, they stay home because they can’t afford to spend money on overpriced proffesional sports when they have bills to pay.
I really think you injecting race into this topic is pretty dumb. How bout you stop dropping the race card to try and stop people from arguing with you and I’ll just start ignoring your posts. Deal?
November 20th, 20092:42 pm
I am with Macon on that one I really don’t care if a player is PURPLE, as long as the effort is pout forth.
However I am just stating facts.
I see the attendance, and I see guys leave that shouldn’t ever have too.
And the other side of the coin Macon is that how do you know it wouldn’t?
beekay, cameron may have struck out almost 160 times, but he also walked 70 times. ill take 160 Ks with a .340 OBP any day over frenchy, who will K at least 100 times (probably more) and get on base at a .310 rate.
cameron makes fewer outs than jeff, and when he does make an out, he doesnt do it by hitting into triple plays.
November 20th, 20092:44 pm
You sse it your way, and I will see it mine!
Cameron, Hart, Byrd, Swisher
November 20th, 20092:45 pm
Why do Braves fans love overrating other teams’ trash so much?
I really don’t care if a player is PURPLE, as long as the effort is pout forth.
hold on there…gotta draw the line somewhere. i hate purple people. unless they are choking. (mitch hedberg)
High strikeout players absolutely kill rallies….when you can’t get people over and you can’t get risp in from contact it hurts teams big time
November 20th, 20092:46 pm
I know you are high on Cameron and I have always liked Mike. He K’s a bit much, and could be a bit better at hitting for average, but otherwise he is a good ballplayer. I do think he is dropping off a bit.
I am just not sure that we go after him until we figure out who gets dealt from the Lowe/Vazquez pool.
Then, after that decision is made, if Cameron is still needed, and is the best option, I would be good with him, but I do think he is asking a bit much for his services though. I think 3-4 million should get it done.
November 20th, 20092:47 pm
Once again, I’m not a Frenchy fan but I will say that Cameron is not my choice for the power bat that we need to compete for the division!
November 20th, 20092:48 pm
Now personally there is no way I would trade Prado, I like his bat, and his glove! although I would and Hope Heyward is the real deal for all Braves fans.
Phillips was just a trade scenario Macon, no need to get all testy.
And if you are so blinded by the fact, that Phillips Arena is sold out every night, and Most Falcon Games are sell-outs, why do the Braves draw so few people on a daily basis? Not economic? Baseball is the cheapest! of all of the big three in Atlanta, 5 bucks for a seat? not cost effective?
gimme a break!
November 20th, 20092:49 pm
I know it wouldn’t because this is 2009 and only small minded people figure race into things like whether or not they’re going to a freaking Braves game. Good grief…Racism should be the PAST, not the PRESENT. The only way we are going to stop it is to stop teaching it to our children. Would the young people of today really give a crap about all that you are claiming drives those around Turner Field away if they hadn’t been taught it by someone else?
Why bother hating someone because of the color of their skin (whether they are white, black, or whatever) when if you took the time to get to know the person, chances are they would give you a much better reason to hate them…
Joe Brave-hey Dude-how you been? When was the last time YOU went around Turner Field asking the local denizens why they didn’t go to the game?
November 20th, 20092:50 pm
It’s Duane Allman’s birthday. RIP, mighty Duane.
Here’s some utter guitar brilliance.
Triple plays? I don’t recall Jeff doing that on a routine basis, I must have zoned out that night.
November 20th, 20092:52 pm
Macon I never said that! I said just ask the locals.
Lew fine, and I sir am behind Turner Field area all the time in my Job, I have a Braves sticker on my car, and I hear the comments!
And Macon I hate no one! absolutely no one, my vocation demands that I see GRAY!
November 20th, 20092:53 pm
Hmmm Joebrave, why do the Falcons sell out all the time? Uhhh, they haven’t sold out crap until the last several years. When they either had the most exciting player in the NFL (Vick before his stupidity caught up with him) or they started winning last year.
And the Hawks? LMAO!!!! When have the Hawks EVER sold out until the last year or so, when whadyaknow…THEIR WINNING. How bout you give ME a break!! The last ten years the Hawks have been lucky to have 10,000 people in the stands unless the Lakers were in town.
November 20th, 20092:54 pm
The Braves have players of all colors, Nationalities and ethnic origins. Since when did a player have to come from a specific continent (200-400 years ago) to make it a diverse team? Seems to me that the Braves have players as light or as dark as any team in MLB. What does it matter if they originally hailed from Africa or Venezuela? Hell, or for that matter, Oakland?
Joebrave, you do realize that there are 10 times more home baseball games than football, right? Is it really that crazy that NFL games mostly consistently sell out, or that it’s a lot easier to sell 20,000 seats than 50,000?
November 20th, 20092:55 pm
Need some street names?
Henrietta street, Jonesboro rd, etal all behind Turner Field, I am at the Wrecker yards all the time, convienence stores, and local eateries.so when do you guys get down that way?
November 20th, 20092:56 pm
Joebrave, you do realize that there are 10 times more home baseball games than football, right? Is it really that crazy that NFL games mostly consistently sell out, or that it’s a lot easier to sell 20,000 (Phillips, as you brought it up) seats than 50,000?
Joebrave–I didn’t say you hated anyone bud. My little saying was just a bit of humor thrown out. And yeah, I’m sure you get catcalls all the time about that racist Braves sticker you got on your vehicle…
Joe Brave-Bit of a walk from Vermont.
November 20th, 20092:57 pm
Let’s get off the race baiting. I didn’t see anything Joe said that could be perceived as a racially biased statement. He is just stating facts, as he knows them. Whether they be 100% true or not, I don’t know, nor do I have a lot of curiosity about.
I just want our team to add the best possible players available to them, no matter the color of their skin. Heck, I’d even pull for a purple dude!
Damn, am I taking up for Joe??
This is my favorite Duane Allman moment – Wilson Pickett’s “Hey Jude” cover:
November 20th, 20092:59 pm
I am not going to get into a flaming discussion with you Macon, I merely stated a simple fact that Phillips might help attendance that has been dow. and you want to fight! now who is showing IGNORANCE!
Merely proposing a simple trade scenario. You chose to see it however you like, and I will do the same.
but until you go down to the hind side and hear the comments then you will just have to be shallow!
I can’t fathom how the fans would think that Brandon Phillips was a good move for us, if they are true baseball fans. We don’t need a second baseman, we have 3-4 of them: Prado, Infante, Conrad and my personal favorite, KJ! (well at least for a few more days anyway!)
November 20th, 20093:00 pm
Wayne–Joe said that the people that live around Turner Field say the Braves are a racist organization and that they don’t go to the games because of that. How is that not a racially biased statement?
They say walking is good for you!
wayne I do think he is asking a bit much for his services though.
i havent heard what he is asking for. what is it?
joebravePhillips Arena is sold out every night, and Most Falcon Games are sell-outs,
you cant compare it. first of all, there are 8 home falcons games to 81 home braves games. the hawks only have 41 home games and seating capacity less than half of what turner field has. i dont think they sell out all the games, either.
November 20th, 20093:05 pm
Just sounds like to me that you are tying to be offended. What Joe said might be true. African American friends of mine think the Utah Jazz bring in more white players to placate the overwhelming white fan base here. They probably do.
Is that racist? Heck no, it’s just the way it is. The folks Joe interfaces with thinks the Braves are racist. How is saying that being racist? It’s not.
Once again, I am as big a believer in Prado as anyone, I would even be pissed if he was moved.
But I go to Games, I have a Flex package, and I renew every year. I want to see the Braves stay competitive year in and year out. It was miserable in the 70s and 80s, and not very fun.
Oh and I was wrong, I hate the Mutts, and Philthies, there I do have some hate!
I think there is a double standard towards racism in sports. I hate the racist ESPN commercial that makes fun of the white basketball player putting him in short, shorts, goggles headband and high socks, shooting bricks. Could you imagine if they had a commercial with a black guy trying to swim in a race and sinking to the bottom?? Terms like white people can’t dunk?? I’m 6′0 and I can dunk still at the age of 40 .
November 20th, 20093:06 pm
Joebrave—Let’s see, I said the trade scenario was a bad one because Prado is as good or better than Phillips and makes a fraction of the money. You then said, but Phillips is black and would increase attendance. Who’s the INGNORANT ONE???? YOU brought the race card up, not I!!
November 20th, 20093:08 pm
Wayne thanks dude, at least you understand what I was trying to say.
now back to baseball!!!!
November 20th, 20093:09 pm
Wayne—I NEVER said Joe was a racist…I responded to you saying that he hadn’t made a racially biased statement by pointing out that is exactly what he said, a racially biased statement claiming that attendance is down because the Braves don’t have more blacks on the team. I’m not offended at all. This whole thing started by me saying his trade idea was a bad one and he tried to defend it by saying that getting Phillips because he is black would make it a good move
Macon I said Phillips was African -American. not black. African -American, Black is what I deem as devoid of color. My best friend is African-American, not Black, he is my brother of color. Now this discussion is over!
November 20th, 20093:10 pm
Oh and I was wrong, I hate the Mutts, and Philthies, there I do have some hate!
Well we do have that in common at least!
Any thoughts on Brandon Lyon as a closer?
November 20th, 20093:11 pm
November 20th, 20093:12 pm
Sending someone to break Chase Ugleys legs?
November 20th, 20093:13 pm
Can we please stop the racial arguments and get on with the suggestions to sign Andruw Jones and Mike Cameron to platoon in CF, or reorganizing the roster to add Matt Holliday and Jason Bay at the corners, right after trading Medlen and Schafer straight up for Adrian Gonzalez?
Donations are being taken for Ryan Howard to have a nose reduction!
African American friends of mine think the Utah Jazz bring in more white players to placate the overwhelming white fan base here. They probably do.
You’re enabling racist thoughts. When people say irrelevant ignorant **** like that, and you choose to continue to be friends with them, you are contributing to the dumbing down of society. Grow up.
November 20th, 20093:14 pm
Race, Religion & Politics = Discussions that have a 99% probability of ending in an argument and everyone huffing and puffing with their arms crossed and a headache.
So a black guy, a muslim and a conservative walk into a bar…
Oh, I should stop there.
The best closer available is Wagner. He is the one we should pursue. Been to long since we had a shut down closer. I think Lyon or Biemel wouldnt be bad as far as set ups but not closers.
November 20th, 20093:15 pm
Good Lord Schafer, and Medlen for A Gon? Are you Crazy? The Padres would have to lose their minds to do that!
November 20th, 20093:16 pm
How bout just sign Blalock, and Trade for Ludwick, while dumping Lowe!maybe add say a endy chavez for the bench.
November 20th, 20093:17 pm
Macon I said Phillips was African -American. not black. African -American, Black is what I deem as devoid of color. My best friend is African-American, not Black, he is my brother of color.
You can use your political correct terms, I’ll use the common man’s terms. Since your into political correctness, refer to me as Irish-American since my great, great grandparents came over on a boat from Ireland…
question, who is 39 years old, coming off of arm surgery, and would cost a first round pick? anybody, anybody????
November 20th, 20093:18 pm
Phillips for Prado/Schafer is one sucky trade proposal…
November 20th, 20093:19 pm
I think adding Laroche and Nady would be a good start. What about Stairs as a PH?
No response Macon discussion over!
AND BILLY WAGNER IS THE ANSWER TO TODAY’S POLL…..
Go Braves and Wren!
wayne you really think cameron has shown evidence of digressing? i dont see it, man. if anything his numbers have fluctuated up and down in a small window since 1999. he has been remarkably consistent.
here are his OPS numbers every year from 1999: .826, .803, .833, .782, .775, .798, .819, .837, .759, .808, .794. thats remarkably consistent.
here is homeruns 21, 19, 25, 25, 18, 30, 12 (injury year, half a season), 22, 21, 25, 24. again, that is very consistent.
just look at this career averages next to what he did last year and you will see that he is still performing up to his career averages. that tells me, no real decline.
November 20th, 20093:20 pm
Wow. Nothing like a conversation about racism (or mis-perceived racism) to bring the blog down.
Congrats guys. Well done.
November 20th, 20093:21 pm
I suppose you think Schafer and Prado are too much for Roy Halladay as well! That won’t even get you a sniff of Halladay!or Gonzalez.
November 20th, 20093:22 pm
Everyone else- LAME!!! Quit with the race stuff. You’re arguing in circles. Baseball!!!
I’ll pass on Wagner if you please. if you’re going to do that why not re-sign Smoltz as your closer!
Smoltz was better in his prime!
November 20th, 20093:23 pm
1. McClouth CF
2. Prado 2nd
3. Jones 3rd
4. McCann C
5. Escobar SS (RBI Man)
6. Nady LF
7. Laroche 1st
8. Diaz RF
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