12:05 am November 17, 2009, by David O'Brien
November 20th, 200912:33 am
It seems as if G. Atkins will probably be non-tendered if hes not traded first P’Cola
he is a very mediocre hitter away from Coors. Career OPS in the lows 700s I believe.That’s pretty stinky. I’ll pass
November 20th, 200912:36 am
I’m guessing he’d ask at least for AJ Burnett type annual money -why not? Anders
he has already said that he would take a discount to stay in Atlanta. What figure that actually means to him I don’t know. I would guess 3/30 at a minimum to perhaps 3/35. ¿Quien sabe?
Bay Area Steve
November 20th, 20091:02 am
Frickin’ kidding me?
Now I gotta deal with this cat on the night-shift too?
What is that, 15 of 30 posts?
I’m all for Mets-Braves banter. And, admittedly, Anders is the cream of that particular crop. But, dude, shut the hell up, at least ’til you’ve got one of your better lines. This Marko and Pensacola stuff ain’t them.
November 20th, 20091:06 am
Damn, right behind it, nolie with the quien sabe.
Frickin’ nails on the frickin’ chalkboard.
Yo, noles, ’sup with Gone Viral, and that Iris (or however it’s spelled) dude? Cousins?
November 20th, 20091:18 am
I have seen Gamel play and I can tell you the defense is pretty rough.
He played at Chipola College (JUCO) in my hometown, Marianna, FL, but I actually only saw him play this fall after I moved to Nashville when he was with the Nashville Sounds (Brewers AAA).
I was excited to see him play since he’s such a big prospect and went to Chipola, but his defense was so rough the fans were sardonically cheering just when he caught a popup foul. Anything even a little bit hot was an adventure, he had at least 1 error and at least one base hit that only avoided being an error because he couldn’t get leather on it. It was kind of like Corbin Bernsen in Major League, and that is no joke, I specifically recall that memory, where he kind of halfway dives but mostly looks like he just doesn’t want to get hit.
He was 2-4 with 2 singles and 2 Ks that night. His second single started a 6 run rally that brought the team from down 6-1 to winning 7-6, and if I recall correctly it was a pretty solid AB. That said, his single wasn’t exactly clutch coming down by 5 in the 7th with no one on, but it ended up being pretty important, and I seem to recall him running the bases pretty well that inning as well.
(Coincidently, one of the pitchers responsible for that 6 run inning was old Royce Ring with 1 AB, 1 H, 1 ER, 0 outs).
Finally, with the tying run on 3rd in the ninth and 2 outs, he made a great play coming in on a slow roller off the end of the bat and got a pretty fast runner at first to win the game, so it ended up being a pretty solid game. But for about 6.5 innings, he was pretty dang frustrating.
That defense will drive folks nuts if it doesn’t get better. And we aren’t talking all hit no glove 3b. Without a pretty large improvement, we’re talking move that guy to left field kind of defense if that one night was any indication.
November 20th, 20091:25 am
who are things?
November 20th, 20091:31 am
our san fran, thing aint going to happen.
the wife set it up. but i cant convert, would love to see china basin.
November 20th, 20091:32 am
who are things Uga
things to see and people to do.
November 20th, 20091:34 am
who are you?
November 20th, 20091:35 am
I didn’t realize that the ¿quien sabe? grated on you.How come?
I’ll have to try to remember that….use it more often maybe
November 20th, 20091:36 am
who are you Uga
¿quien sabe? Uga. Do any of us really know ourselves?
November 20th, 20091:38 am
always wondered your take on our gifted rightfielder?
thought he and kelly brought us down.
November 20th, 20091:40 am
November 20th, 20091:44 am
Uga, I like hitters who make fewer outs, so I was never a big fan of Jeffs.
November 20th, 20091:48 am
here is my take,
keep roachy, keep the outfield.
gotta hunch mclouth will hit.
November 20th, 20091:50 am
i really think nate will hit.
November 20th, 20091:55 am
I think it comes from hearing a whole lotta Spanish out here. Hell, I damn near speak Spanish. Or, at least, I should after four years in HS, and living in Palo Alto.
But, mostly, I think it’s just that I expect my baseball scouts, that report to me personally, speak English only. Not sure why. Probably makes me a racist.
Or, it might be ’cause you appreciate you a little RHR too. Man, just sayin’, that woman, at least in words (which is all we know) is damn-near ideal, ain’t she?
November 20th, 20091:57 am
’sup uga? Who are you?
Drinkin’ somethin’ called Evan Williams tonight, for the first time. JB it ain’t, though it seems to have the expected result.
November 20th, 20092:02 am
loved the Random-like stuff v. Rob (or whoever it was) earlier. Great stuff.
Man, nothing makes me think the opposite faster than when someone says they’re right 90% of the time.
who about them stanford cardinal?
November 20th, 20092:03 am
I think he’ll hit some better than he did, but the guy is pretty much a 265,350/460 hitter. he might do a bit better but I don’t expect him to regularly become a lot better hitter than that. A good couple of years are doable though, and we could use it. I think he & Schafer could end up as similar hitters, maybe less power for Schafer a bit. Too soon to tell for sure.
On another note. I’m afraid that losing Gonzo and Sori is gonna be a bigger setback than most anticipate.
November 20th, 20092:05 am
that woman, at least in words (which is all we know) is damn-near ideal, ain’t she?
yeah, I’ve been in love for years.
November 20th, 20092:06 am
Speaking of which,
I like this PWH dude. He knows his stuff, makes reasonable posts, has a whole lotta Steve from Ohio (who’s too busy to post as much) in him (this is a good thing). But, man, P-Dub, you’re an arrogant little bastard. Show a little humility, dude. It’ll go a long way, here and in life. Decision-makers will see good; you may have to hard-sell it some of the time, but all-the-freakin’-time’ll only hurt your cause.
November 20th, 20092:10 am
i agree about soriano and gonzo.
one thing though, hated watching soriano pitch against left handers.
thought the fastball rolled over.
saw him get spanked by howard, and by that guy named eithier.
November 20th, 20092:12 am
You saw my prediction, uga, right?
I had Stanford losing by 10, and they won by 30 or so. I need those; reminds me not to bet sports. Blackjack, and poker, are enough.
And, to your point, how ’bout them Cardinal. Rose Bowl baby.
And, since we’re on College Football, and I always like to take a shot at ‘OB: seriously with the Kansas coach. I dont care if Walsh, Lombardi, and Parcells were combined in a petri dish, I don’t want a coach that looks like Mangini. Dude, mix in a salad; you’re in a profession that demands athlete’s respect.
November 20th, 20092:20 am
mangini just ate his kicker.
either way “how about them cardinal”
a white tailback? named toby?
November 20th, 20092:23 am
Evan Williams is a superb substitute, Bay Area Steve
I see that Braveheart ’s returned to his roots in sarcastic oversimplification and trivialization of complex arguments.
LMAO. Random, sweetie, please don’t tell me you are deluding yourself into believing you have made a complex argument as to why Kawakami can’t be traded. Your argument is kung fu movie silly, being basically an unadulterated exploitation of superficial, antiquated stereotypes of Orientals. Less Jackie Chan silliness, more Bruce Lee seriousness out of you will prompt fewer sarcastic trivializations of your simple minded arguments.
But, anyways, if Joe Gibbs can force Tony Stewart to drive a Toyota, Frank Wren can trade Kawakami.
November 20th, 20092:28 am
“But, anyways, if Joe Gibbs can force Tony Stewart to drive a Toyota, Frank Wren can trade Kawakami.”
Best line I’ve read in awhile.
November 20th, 20092:30 am
bama vs. florida.
think ingram might be the difference.
julio might chime in.
the tide will have their chances.
gotta get by auburn though.
I didn’t want to believe nolie and scoots, with regard to their bullpen thoughts. But, clearly Sori and MikeyG are two of the top guys out there, and are gonna command big money. As Braves fans, we know they’ve got their weaknesses.
Must offer arbitration, I think (and I hope one of ‘em comes back).
But, is a far less than perfect reliever worth 6 or 8 mil a year? Let’s take the typical Braves (and scoots and nolie) approach, and go cheap, and go scrap-heap, and go young. Not much drop-off, it seems. I agree with nolie, it’s gonna hurt, but look at the alternative.
And, I feel the need to mention Smoltz. It’s in ‘im folks; I know it.
November 20th, 20092:33 am
Braveheart at midnight!
November 20th, 20092:34 am
see you next time. gotta go.
November 20th, 20092:37 am
But, is a far less than perfect reliever worth 6 or 8 mil a year
other than Rivera and Hoffman and a coupla others they are all pretty far from perfect. Heck if they were worth a damn at all most of them wouldn’t be receivers in the first place.
November 20th, 20092:39 am
yup, up past his beddy-bye time. Most have the covers over his head with a flashlight aimed at his keyboard.
November 20th, 20092:40 am
May the four winds blow you safely home
November 20th, 20093:02 am
I’m starting to think Wren reads the blogs and message boards. My Lowe for Arredondo and Sandoval deal may happen after all That would free up a ton of money to add an OF, 1B and more RP. Plus it gives the Braves a good BP arm in Arredondo and a very nice switch-hitting versatile player in Sandoval as well.
November 20th, 20093:13 am
UGA, hopefully, Ingram will be the difference if Saban allows him to be. The last 6 weeks or so he’s tried too hard to get McElroy going, obviously thinking he can”t beat Florida or Texas if McElroy doesn’t get going. But he’s stalled the offense by doing so. I expect Saban to abandon McElroy in the SEC championship game, and just try to blow Florida away with Ingram, Richardson and Upchurch. Don’t even let McElroy try to do anything until you have no choice. As for Julio, I dunno. I’m pretty disappointed in the guy. A physical, athletic freak, but he kind of seems to me to be like an NFL tight end. Seems a bit too boxy or too big for the position. He doesn’t have that special agility and playmaking ability AJ Green has. He just doesn’t. Julio doesn’t get enough separation. He doesn’t seem to be a good route runner. There have been quite a few plays this year in the red zone where he didn’t get the needed separation because of poor route running. His moves just aren’t sharp enough to get the separation he needs to be open. He doesn’t seem to sell his fakes well enough, or to follow those fakes up with tight enough cuts.
November 20th, 20094:50 am
anders get used to marquis , he like citi park and wants to be a met
actually he just likes the fact that wilpon buys up washed up injury prone hacks at twice the price they are worth
so it looks like marquis is the mets #2
November 20th, 20094:55 am
condolences to all the uga faithful.
the mascot passed away unexpectantly and a wreath will be on the sdidelines for this weeks game
Wayne in Utah
November 20th, 20095:40 am
If we can’t move Lowe, then the Gamels idea would be a good one. So darned many ways this thing can go………
FW is going to earn his pay this off season.
November 20th, 20096:35 am
How about John Smoltz as closer for next season? Okay… I am German… let me get back to soccer now – something I know more about than baseball…
November 20th, 20097:23 am
Guten Morgen, GemanBravesFan!
Fußball ist Spaß!!
November 20th, 20097:24 am
Smoltz as closer – Nicht passieren
November 20th, 20098:06 am
i love smoltz, but we can’t go there.
November 20th, 20098:24 am
It’s the big day for the 40 man. I assume teams have until midnight their time to enter new names and remove old ones. The latest on the BRAVES includes LEE HYDE, JEFF LYMAN, JONNY VENTERS and JOSE ORTEGANO, all pitchers. I did not post up here last year with either HYDE or LYMAN. Although I continued noting JEFF’s progress, I don’t recall posting any info on him from the minors. But I did for both VENTERS and ORTEGANO.
As I remember VENTERS hit a rough patch after being promoted to GWINNETT. In 17 starts, he had a 5.62 era/1.590 whip compared to a 2.76 era/1.450 whip in 12 games at PEARL. For those of you remembering CHARLIE MORTON’s era/whip at GWINNETT, you can see VENTERS has some work to do. Still the brass likes what he’s got. So keep an eye on him.
ORTEGANO as I remember was pretty consistant between MYRTLE (3.49 era/1.044 whip in 69.2 IP) and MISSISSIPPI (2.83 era/ 1.280 whip in 47.2 IP) last season. Between the two, I like him the most. A sure kiss of death if there ever was one. I suppose JOSE will flame out this year.
November 20th, 20098:49 am
I just don’t see how a straight up trade of Lowe or Vazquez for a decent power hitter would work. Most teams that would be willing to trade for one of those pitchers probably aren’t in a rebuilding mode and I imagine they wouldn’t be willing part with any decent offensive players to make it happen. The more likely scenario, in my view, is swapping Lowe or Vazquez for some decent prospects (I thought about Gamel too DOB, it would make sense seeing as how he’s got McGehee & Fielder blocking his path), and then flip some of those prospects and/or our own for a decent hitter. The Braves aren’t going to pay Bay or Holliday $20mil/season and the pickings are slim after that.
I’ve thought from the start that we’d all be blindsided by a trade when it happens. Who saw Vazquez coming last year?
November 20th, 20098:57 am
ncgary @ 4:50am…so it looks like marquis is the mets #2
For some reason, that made me giggle. And I haven’t giggled since I was 8 years old. Let’s all raise our glasses and toast Wilpon for overpaying mediocre veterans who inevitably get hurt and/or choke when it counts the most.
November 20th, 20098:58 am
Not that I have a glass of anything at 8:57 in the morning…that would be a problem.
November 20th, 20099:02 am
dpelfry I’ve thought from the start that we’d all be blindsided by a trade when it happens. Who saw Vazquez coming last year?
ooo bad example. alot of folks were calling for that one, i was one of them. better would be who saw mclouth coming? cause that one was definitely a surprise.
November 20th, 20099:09 am
dpelfry, but im only right like 85% of the time, so its no big deal. i wonder what eric in MO was saying about it. :- )
November 20th, 20099:13 am
Being a Braves fan is painful. It currently looks as if the Braves have a surplus of starting pitching and a need for hitting; this is a familiar story in Atlanta. History tells us that the Braves will trade (or give away) starting pitching to cut payroll so they can sign hitting. Then they will sign a mediocre hitter or an over the hill star. They’ll hype all the great moves they’ve made, and going into the season they believe are a real contender. Then the games will begin, the hitter won’t perform, someone on the pitching staff will get injured or underperform, and we’ll be disappointed yet again. Wouldn’t it be great if for once the Braves broke out of this losing formula? I’d love to see them hold on to the “excess” pitching because in reality “you can never have too much pitching”. Spend a little money in the free-agent market and bring a couple prime hitters in. Add a Hank Blalock and Jason Bay to the current team and suddenly the Braves are the class of the NL and have a real shot at a World Series. This would also put butts back in seats. Unfortunately, the Braves will probably keep doing what they’ve been doing and keep getting what they’ve been getting; trade away Javier Vazquez or Tommy Hanson for a mediocre hitter, hype the kids coming up from the minors, and end the season in September. The fans deserve more.
Gamels D is terrible, but we currently have an mostly-stick little glove 3b. We played all last year with a LF who didn’t even carry a glove out on the field. We could certainly use Gamels stick in our lineup the next 5 years or more, if the price is right. We wouldn’t even have to start him next year. Resign Laroche and Gamels is our primary pinch hitter, backup 3b, backup lf, etc. By 2011 he’d start, I fear for a retiring Chipper.
I’m not sure he’s enough by himself for 1 year of Vasquez, but the difference is probably 1-2 low minors prospects. I’d rather re-sign Vasquez but I have a ton of admiration for Gamels bat.
Also if Wren’s master plan is to keep Ryan Church, but via free agency could wind up with Corey Hart instead it would be an upgrade worth considering. Hart was far more highly thought of than Church going into 2009 so if they are similarly priced …
Garrett Jones – Great rookie player, would love to have him, but probably one of the least likely trades i’ve seen seriously discussed. He’s cheap and the pirates are cheap so unless we gave them several ML ready prospects of equal caliber to him, he’s not moving. Fox from the Cubs is similar but far more available. Would still cost a good bit, but the Cubs are a far different financial situation than the pirates.
November 20th, 20099:15 am
If the Angels are interested in Lowe, one player I’d ask for is Georgian Terry Evans. I’d also be interested in Brandon Wood, etc. But for Lowe, I’d take just Terry Evans, if that’s all I could get for him. Of course, the main thing is moving Lowe and his contract.
November 20th, 20099:23 am
I agree, BAS. Gotta do it for BOTH Soriano and Gonzo. Maybe I’m being gullible and falling into the runor mill, but I’m hearing way too many teams interested in Sori and Gonzo NOT to offer arb. to both.
November 20th, 20099:24 am
I’m with you Dan P. I believe liberty media (the owner) has been off on their budget for the team and in order to preserve the overall franchise value needs to spend enough to get a great bat in here while maintaining the rest of the team quality. They can afford to pay an extra 20 million if it gets them improved attendance (more $) & improved franchise value (more $) and gets them closer to finding a buyer. We’ve all heard they want to sell the team as soon as they profitably can, and the only sure fire way to do that is to start filling the stands again.
The attendance isn’t where it needs to be, and I believe that the only way to get it back up is to build a team the city easily recognizes as a great team, not one like 09 where it was kind of good and might make the playoffs. People in Atlanta are fickle and are rarely satisfied with a slightly above average team.
Of course I meant rumor mill*
DAP, I didn’t really hit the blogs last year. I just remember I didn’t see anything on the big rumor websites until after it happened.
November 20th, 20099:27 am
Hello tr and todd h – I just threw it out there… Maybe I am sentimental…
November 20th, 20099:28 am
It’s great news that Soriano and Gonzalez are the two hottest RP’s on the market. It makes it so obvious that they should be offered arbitration so that we get some extra draft picks. This is exactly why the system is set up this way. We’re losing 2 very valuable commodities and MLB is just begging us to take a parting gift of 4 draft picks. If we don’t take them it’s because we’re as cheap as Scrooge in “A Christmas Carol”.
Keith Law ranked his Top 50 free agents on ESPN.com. He ranked Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano as #17 and #20, the two top free agent relievers on the market. Here is what he had to say on both:
Gonzalez is the best left-handed reliever on the market, a strikeout machine with average to above-average control and no trouble retiring right-handed hitters. He’s mostly fastball/slider, 90-96 on the fastball with the occasional cutter at the low end of that range, with a slider that’s a little sweepy but remains effective against left- and right-handed hitters. He’ll flash a changeup, but goes to the slider even in typical changeup counts. He gets very good deception in his delivery, and since coming back from 2007 Tommy John surgery, his control has improved significantly (just 25 unintentional walks in over 300 batters faced in 2009). He and former Atlanta teammate Rafael Soriano are the two best relievers on the market this winter, and I’d lean toward Gonzalez over Soriano because he’s left-handed and has a better medical history.
Soriano is the best reliever on the market, and better than any of the closers available on last winter’s market, including the vaunted K-Rod, whose first season in New York was disappointing enough to make him fit in perfectly with his new club. Soriano works primarily with two pitches, a 90-96 mph fastball and a tight slider with late snap; he mostly gets ahead with the fastball, after which he’ll throw either pitch, and hitters don’t see the ball well out of his hand. Earlier questions about Soriano’s toughness on the mound are more than resolved, and he’s shown he can handle late-game and highly leveraged situations. He’s been healthy now for three of the last four years, missing much of 2008 after non-Tommy John elbow surgery, so he’s only marginally more of an injury risk than your typical power reliever. He’s a premium arm and should be looking for K-Rod money, given his skill set and track record.
How about that last line? Looking for K-Rod money? I’m not so sure many here think he’ll get 3 years and 36 million. Heck, if Wren thought that, an arbitration offer would of already been handed out.
November 20th, 20099:31 am
Bay Area Steve….on Mangini, yeah he is a sight but given Kansas football history I doubt they are going to make Mangini step on the scales. They’ll take the recent successes of Kansas football and look the other way. Literally. Let’s not forget that Ralph “The Fridge” Friedgen is grazing on the sidelines at Maryland and I dare say he makes Mangini look slim. The Maryland team is….well that blows my point all to hell. Anyway both of them could stand to push away from the table–after the salad.
“I’m starting to think Wren reads the blogs and message boards”–Jay212033
Well of course he does. I told him on this very blog a year ago about Prado and he should be the starting 2nd baseman. Now look. If he had only listened to me sooner.
Dan Pthey’ve been doing and keep getting what they’ve been getting; trade away Javier Vazquez or Tommy Hanson for a mediocre hitter,
i promise you this will not happen, at least with hanson, and im pretty confident it wont happen with vazquez either.
I’d love to see them hold on to the “excess” pitching because in reality “you can never have too much pitching”.
actually, you can have too much pitching when you look at it in relation to how much hitting you have. thats the situation the braves are in.
P. W. Hjort
November 20th, 20099:34 am
Heck, if Wren thought that, an arbitration offer would of already been handed out.
Maybe it already has been. Maybe Keith Law wrote that report in hopes of creating a market for the relievers so the Braves will be able to offer them arbitration without consequence to make up for costing them $70,000 by voting for Javy Vazquez. Is that a run-on sentence?
November 20th, 20099:41 am
How much would Billy Wags want?…or better yet how much could he get? When we lose Gonzo and Sori we need a closer….how about JJ Putz?
November 20th, 20099:44 am
wow, krod money for soriano? im not sure about that. but, as good as they are making soriano sound, he would be a good deal even if he accepts arbitration! really though, its starting to look like arbitration offers should be made to both these guys. thanks for that info, efrim.
does anyone think the braves will make a multiyear offer to either one of these guys after they reject arbitration?
Ireland got screwed. Yet another reason to hate the French.
November 20th, 20099:45 am
K-Rod type money for Soriano? All the best to ya buddy. I just don’t see it.
I think we will end up dealing for a closer/potential closer. I think Wagner will want either too much money or two years. Though I like him better out of the pen than either Gonzo or Soriano.
I don’t know much about JJ Putz. Is he a junk ball thrower? I have some real concerns about our closers slot.
November 20th, 20099:49 am
“History tells us that the Braves will trade (or give away) starting pitching to cut payroll so they can sign hitting”—DanP
Dan, IMO they aren’t trading Vazquez, Hanson, or JJ for said hitting and I agree with you that you can’t have too much pitching. While it could be argued that some pitchers will not perform should we trade for a big bat there is plenty that contend here that KK will get better after getting acclamated to the States and a bigger ball. Vazquez may have found his happy zone here in Atlanta and will indeed post similar numbers. Hudson is the big question mark of the projected 2010 starters as to whether he can sustain consistently solid pitching with about 14 wins more or less. Thus, I have always contended that if you take away any of the aforementioned pitchers that I don’t feel will be traded and Hudson has an off year then the Braves are taking a huge gamble trading away a starter for a bat.
As for history saying the Braves will trade away starting pitching, I don’t buy that today. The only history I care about is the history with Frank Wren. He made solid moves and non-moves last year so I am confident he will get what he is after. Whether the players perform obviously is yet to be seen. The #1 formula for a World Series contender is starting pitching and I don’t believe any trade will involve JJ, Vazquez, or Hanson.
November 20th, 20099:56 am
I don’t think Soriano will get K-Rod money, nor does he deserve that. But I’m willing to bet Soriano gets AT LEAST Fuentes money: 2 years/$17.5M (2009-10), plus 2011 option that vests with 55 finished games in 2010.
November 20th, 200910:00 am
Ok…so I was reading through last nights posts and noticed a nice one around 8:30 that DOB had about a Vazquez/Gamel trade like it appeared out of thin air…
Yeah, back up there a second….I do recall mentioning the same exact trade over a week ago…adding Villenueva to the trade along w/ Gamel.
Maybe someone can explain why its getting so much response when it was mentioned so long ago?
I mean god forbid its no Lowe for Gary Matthews Jr or Lowe for Derrek Lee or Carlos Lee or Nick Swisher…
Oh, and if we have to take Hart to get rid of Lowe, I’m not sure its worth it unless you just trade Lowe and then nontender Hart…now that would make sense, but like others have said, I can’t see the Brewers taking on that salary for 3 years.
I can also see us really going hard at Wagner now with the likelyhood that we offer arb and its declined by both Type A relievers and both Type B bats…hmm…thats 6 picks.
Finally, anyone notice Bay rejecting the 4/60 offer?
November 20th, 200910:10 am
p-town Maybe someone can explain why its getting so much response when it was mentioned so long ago?
thats an easy one. people pay much more attention to DOB than they do to you. bloggers with the most credibility get the most feed back, and DOB, this being his blog, is at the top of that list. dont take it personally, man. if you spend enough time here making good posts youll move up on the credibility ladder.
November 20th, 200910:13 am
Let’s make a blog totem pole
Because P-Town, we dismissed your trade idea at that time because Villaneuva sucks, so why would the Braves want him.
November 20th, 200910:16 am
Because he’s DOB, and you’re just P-Town, SUCKA!
November 20th, 200910:20 am
DAP is right. Most of us will get very little overall read on here, but DOB’s posts stand out (blue background helps too) because he actually talks to the insiders. We all just read and speculate on what we read, or we dream up a “great trade” idea.
I do remember the Gamels discussion. I can’t remember if I responded to any of it, but I do remember thinking that if the dude could play a credible first base, he might develop into a serviceable glove man at third in the event of Chipper’s eventual departure.
There are a few similar players out there, albeit less attractive to the Braves I am sure: Garrett Atkins and Hank Blalock come to mind. Both have some real negative downsides though.
Gamels, if he is the real deal with the bat, could help. But he is far from proven.
Dang it Frank, where is that blockbuster?
November 20th, 200910:27 am
Whats up blog….quick question for everyone is the general consensus in regards to Soriano and Gonzo being goners that you,
a) are ok with them leaving because you’ll hopefully get draft picks
b) think the money will be better served to address other areas
c) think that picking up a high risk/high reward guy or a prospect will step up and solidify the bullpen just fine
d) just believe they are inferior options to other guys that may be available for less money aka Wagner, etc.
November 20th, 200910:31 am
The blockbuster most of would like to see is at least a month away if it happens at all…sit back and relax.
November 20th, 200910:34 am
“Wayne in Utah
I think we will end up dealing for a closer/potential closer. I think Wagner will want either too much money or two years. Though I like him better out of the pen than either Gonzo or Soriano.”
Why do you have Wagner ahead of Gonzo/Soriano? I know there are some stats to support this, but he hasn’t pitched enough recently to convince me.
I’m curious because I feel many on here have a bias against the braves players they see on a daily basis and can’t let the stats speak for themselves. It seems to be the worst regarding closers (all closers have blown saves, it’s inevitable) and defensive blunders that are given way more weight than any one error should. For instance, I read several times recently that closer has been an issue for the Braves “for 20 years”. I’m sorry but in that time we’ve had Wohlers and Smoltz and Rocker, all of whom were lights out for long periods of time. Soriano should have been an all-star in 2009.
The experts appear to be ranking both ahead of Wagner on a consistent basis. Yes he had nice stats last year, but at his age the majority of people voting with their checkbooks are going to pick Gonzo and Soriano ahead of him.
November 20th, 200910:35 am
wilymo, hard to answer that, because while im excited about getting some good picks, im not excited about losing two very solid bullpen arms. id like to see wren bring one of them back, to be honest, or sign a good reliever to close for us.
November 20th, 200910:37 am
I know it hasn’t been discussed much here on the blog but, How much will BC leaving affect players wanting to come here because of the way he handles a team? Not every player like Hudson has a home and community connections in this area that would keep them here.
November 20th, 200910:40 am
I was gonna say trade Vazquez and a low level prospect for Joe Nathan and Delmon Young, then I realized just how much Nathan makes for the next 2 years. Also not sure Twins need another starter.
November 20th, 200910:45 am
wilymo, Gonzo and Soriano are getting so much hype right now they will probably end up with multi-year offers in $8-10 million per year range, or maybe higher in Soriano’s case. And it doesn’t appear the Braves are going to ink either one long-term, so you can probably kiss both of them goodbye. I think it’s very smart to offer both arb and load up on draft picks.
The Braves have some good arms returning to the pen (Moylan, OFlaherty, Medlen) and some potential impact rookies that will get a look in spring training (Hyde and Kimbrel), but I think we can all agree that a few additions in this area would be prudent. I love the idea of bringing in Wagner for one year. Also, if and when the Braves trade a starting pitcher, my guess is you’ll see a reliever tied into that deal. And there’s a pretty decent stock of free agents that might be worth looking at.
Someone on here said bullpens are like a box of chocolates…amen to that.
November 20th, 200910:49 am
I was just curious, because (and UGAaccountant basically already touched on this) I think fan bases are always more critical of their own guys because they see them on a daily basis. So it’s easy to point out Gonzo’s inconsistencies or the games that Soriano blew in the second half, and say hey this guy is better or we’d be better off with that guy. But every closer goes through tough stretches, or has really memorable blown saves.
And I’m totally on board with building bullpens on the cheap. When it works, it’s a blessing. And often times it does work. Oakland’s bullpen was a great example. You also have to keep in mind though that sometimes when it doesn’t work (Tampa Bay this year for example) especially for a team on the brink of the playoffs, it can get ugly. You saw how difficult it was for NY to even get to Rivera in the playoffs. Luckily their team was good enough to make up for it. Just something to think about.
November 20th, 200910:50 am
Derek Lowe for Jose Arredondo and Freddy Sandoval.
The Atlanta Braves are now the new farm team for the Yankees and Red Sox. Get em on board, pat em on the azz and get their confidence back, fix their broken arms and ship em off to the bigboy teams when we can’t afford em anymore. What a crock!
November 20th, 200910:51 am
im re posting this from yesterday…
a few for these guys are probably washed up (percival, guardado) but they all have closing experience and have been successful doing it at one time or another. the braves ought to be able to find a guy to close for a decent price tag.
November 20th, 200910:52 am
Braves are waiting to make announcement on roster additions later today, because they’re considering a sixth guy (not sure who that is) and want to do it all at once.
If I had to guess, I’d say among the five roster additions so far — lefties Lee Hyde, Jose Ortegano and Jonny Venters, righties Kyle Coffield and Jeff Lyman — Hyde is the one who has the real shot at making the team this spring. His stock has soared now that he’s stayed healthy long enough to really get in a groove and show what he can do against higher-level minor leaguers and top prospects.
November 20th, 200910:54 am
reds are trying to dump fransisco cordero’s idiotic contract for obvious reasons…would any body consider taking on his $12 for two years plus jonny gomes, if we can get them for a song?
Braves are interested in Corey Hart??? Come on, he cant even sing anymore(sunglasses at night lmao) Why always go after the average Joe, get a real stud in here. Xanier Nady is a free agent coming off an injury but hits about 25 bombs & 100 rbi per year, & is a righty & used to playing in the National league, sign him he wont be that expensive like Bay or Holliday. Then make a big trade with the Padres to get Gonzalez at first, hes young, big bat & great glove & not that expensive either you can get him for what LaRoche will want & hes a better player, send the Padres some young inexpensive guys like Medlin, & give them Kawakami, then all we need to do is bolster up the bullpen & were good
November 20th, 200910:55 am
I think we’ve all been critical of Gonzo and Soriano at various times to the point that a lot of people have said let’s just get the picks, they won’t be worth the money. Almost talking themselves into thinking they won’t be huge losses. And I think some of the big games they blew have left more of a negative impression than normal. But the scary thing is that when you step back and look at both their numbers compared to the guys that are available, its not even really close. A lot of the guys available are either living off reputations or the hope that they return to previous form.
P-Town Brave: Sorry I didn’t notice your proposal. I would’ve referenced it when I wrote that if I’d seen or remembered it. I wrote Gamel’s name after talking to a Milwaukee writer who mentioned him as being available when we were talking about possible Brewers’ possible interest in one of the Braves starting pitchers.
DOB is sooo Double Pits to Chesty!
See for yourself!
November 20th, 200910:57 am
NY Frenchy: Who said they’re interested in Hart? We spent half the blog last night dismissing that rumor — in short, Braves aren’t interested in him — and ripping Hart far more than you just did. We quickly moved on.
November 20th, 200911:02 am
Do you think they should add Matt Young to the 40-man roster? He deserves a shot at least right?
November 20th, 200911:03 am
I think fan bases are always more critical of their own guys because they see them on a daily basis. (WILY MO)
Definitely true. Players, managers, broadcasters, basically anyone involved with the team, it doesn’t matter ….. intimacy and proximity breeds contempt
Its ok, I forgive you and all…I mean c’mon…I had to forgive you being a Jawhawk fan awhile ago…
Nice job there channeling Booker T.
Have been here awhile…that wasn’t really my point, but ok…
Yeah, I remember myself and maybe a couple others talking about the trade when I mentioned it…you may have been one of them..not certain.
Anyone with a name like that shouldn’t be referencing anyone else and the word “sucking” together…
Put the knives and the golf clubs away my man.
Alright, alright…what the heck happened?! I thought someone took out Marietta Derek a long time ago…
Lew, i thought that was your job?!
November 20th, 200911:06 am
Every guy after Wagner, I really don’t think you want to have to rely on if you’re hoping to make the playoffs. True they’ve all been closers at some point, but let’s get real. Saito, Lyon, and Putz are probably the best options of that bottom group but they would need to be just one part of the solution. I’ve seen Putz pitch hundreds of times from his days in Seattle and let’s just say the Mets version was a far far cry from the guy people remember. When he was dominant he was throwing 98 with a 90mph splitter that was one of the filthiest pitches in the game. Last year, he was throwing 91 and some offspeed pitch that was a garbage show me pitch at best. If you think that was entirely due to injury, then I guess take a flyer on him.
If you don’t like Soriano’s homer issue, I suggest you remove Kevin Gregg off your wish list.
If you don’t like Gonzo’s control/consistency issue, you’ll probably want to take Rodney off as well.
Which leaves Wagner and Valverde, whom will probably be in the same price range of Gonzo/Soriano and most likely cost you draft picks.
And sure you could sign 2 or 3 of the bottom guys to help minimize risk, but I think between Putz, Lyon, Saito, and I’ll add Dotel to your list — i’ll bet they’re all gonna be asking for $3-4 mil a year atleast considering Grabow just got the 2 yr/$3.75 mil deal.
Ok here is the Untouchables list so no more wasted talk about any of these studs. 1. McCann 2. Escobar 3. Jurrjens 4. Hanson 5. Heyward anyone else is available but we cant get anybody to take Chipper off our hands so third base will be a wasted spot again next year, thats why we need big production at first & left field to make up for it, please no more Smoltzie talk, hes DONE & needs to join his bud Glavine on the golf course!
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