Braves explore options during GM meetings

Schiller Park, Ill. – Yes, sir, that’s the address of my budget hotel ’bout a mile from the sprawl of Chicago’s O’Hare Airport, where baseball’s GMs are having their meetings, thus doing their small part to make it clear to everyone watching that things are tough all over.

Key Biscayne, Dana Point, Calif., Palm Springs, Naples, Fla. – that’s where they’ve had these meetings in recent years, usually at a Ritz-Carlton or St. Regis or some other cradle of luxury.

Some of those places were so pricey that us schlub reporters would drive over in our rental cars and barely afford to pay for parking, much less breakfast (a bagel and coffee would set you back about 10 bucks at the St. Regis at Dana Point, where last year’s meetings were held as the economy was in full free-fall, a fact that I think caused some embarrassment for baseball as writers blogged and Twittered about the obscene prices and opulent setting where the GMs were gathered.)

Oh, and before I forget, remember you can follow us up-to-the-minute on Twitter — @ajcbraves.

This isn't the airport Hilton; it's the St. Regis in Dana Point

Definitely not the airport Hilton (this is St. Regis in Dana Point, Calif., site of 2008 GM meetings).

Anyway, they reduced the meetings from four days to barely two this year and held them at a modest business hotel connected to airport terminals by tunnels.

“Don’t get me started on that,” White Sox GM Kenny Williams was saying to a few of us reporters earlier tonight. “The O’Hare Hilton is very nice.”

I went over to talk to Williams because I wanted to ask him about Javier Vazquez, who was traded by Williams’ White Sox to the Braves (along with lefty Boone Logan) last winter in exchange for four minor leaguers including behemoth catching prospect Tyler Flowers and baby-faced infielder Brent Lillibridge.

All Vazquez did was have the best season of his career and one of the best seasons by a major league pitcher in 2009, going 15-10 with a 2.87 ERA and 238 strikeouts with 44 walks in 219-1/3 innings. With better run support, he might have won 18-20 games.

Because the Braves have six quality starters – or will, provided Tim Hudson’s elbow looks good in the MRI he’ll have Tuesday, at which point the Braves would announce the three-year contract extension the sides have already otherwise finalized – they are looking to trade one of them.

They’re not going to trade Jair Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson or Hudson, and Derek Lowe’s remaining three-year, $45 million commitment might be difficult to move, though a lack of front-line starters on the free-agent market could help in that.

With Kawakami owed $13.3 million over the next two years (he signed a three-year, $23 million a year ago and got a $2 million bonus up front so he could buy a house, etc.), the Braves should be able to find takers for him if they want to move the Japanese veteran.

White Sox GM says Vazquez's 2009 work wasn't surprising

White Sox GM says Vazquez's 2009 work wasn't surprising

But in moving Lowe or Kawakami, the Braves aren’t likely to get much in return, certainly not anything like they would be able to get if they decided to trade Vazquez, who has one year at $11.5 million left on his contract.

That’s a bargain for a 33-year-old pitcher coming off a season like the one he just produced, who has pitched more than 200 innings in nine of the past 10 seasons and totaled 651 strikeouts in 644-1/3 innings during the past three.

I heard today that the Braves have discussed the possibility of signing Vazquez to a multi-year extension rather than trading him, but they haven’t firmed up their plans or made an offer yet.

First, they have to get the Hudson thing taken care of, then probably get a better gauge of the market and what they might be able to get for one of their other starters, or whether they could get a team to take all of Lowe’s contract.

The Braves want to add a right-handed power hitter to their lineup, and that could come via a few different means. They could possibly trade for one, but probably only if the deal involved either Vazquez or perhaps a solid prospect included in a deal involving Lowe or Kawakami.

It’s not clear whether the Braves will make a big offer to try to re-sign first baseman Adam LaRoche, their best power hitter after they traded for him at the July 31 deadline last year. He hit .325 with 12 homers, 40 and a .958 OPS in 57 games while playing exceptional defense.

But the first-time free agent might command a multi-year deal on the open market, and the Braves seem reluctant to block the path of first-base prospect Freddie Freeman if Freeman’s ready in another year or so.

Beyond that, the Braves also have concerns about LaRoche’s extreme career-long disparity between first- and second-half production. After the All-Star break, he’s a career .300 hitter with a .909 OPS and a homer every 17.7 at-bats.

Before the break, he’s a .252 hitter with a .773 OPS and a homer every 25.2 at-bats.

If the Braves decide to trade Vazquez, they might be able to get a young power hitter in return. We’ve mentioned Texas outfielder Nelson Cruz as a possibility before, even though Vazquez has a no-trade clause that prohibits a trade to a NL West or AL West team without his approval. He had that clause put in his contract, however, to prevent a trade to a West Coast team, because Vazquez doesn’t want to be that far from his family in Puerto Rico.

Could Rangers' Cruz be possibility for Braves?

Could Rangers' Cruz be possibility for Braves?

Whether he’d waive it for a trade to a team in Texas is unclear, and plenty of Brave and Braves fans hope they won’t have to find out.  Chipper Jones and other Braves have lobbied openly for the Braves to bring back Vazquez, who not only pitched well enough for a likely top-five Cy Young Award finish, but also was credited for working with young Jurrjens and helping him continue his ascendance.

Now, getting back to Kenny Williams — I asked the White Sox GM if he had seen enough of Vazquez, who went 15-8 with a 3.74 for Chicago in 2007 before slipping to 12-16 with a 4.67 ERA in ‘08, to think he could do what he did this season.

“Absolutely,” Williams said. “Go ask Frank Wren right now what I told him Javier Vazquez would do, and he’ll tell you ‘He did exactly what Kenny told me he would do.’ Javy’s a fit for that situation.

“For us, we had to make our own decisions for our own set of reasons. Plus it’s a guy going from the American League to the National League, and no disrespect but….” Here Williams paused, didn’t finish the thought, and repeated, “No Disrespect.”

It was pretty clear to all of us standing there that Kenny wanted to say something about the disparity as he sees it between the AL and NL, and about how much easier he thinks it is to pitch in the latter.

“Whatever I say right now is going to come off as…” he said, again not finishing the sentence. Then he put it this way: “There’s a big difference between the American League and the National League.”

And this way: “If I were to get fired at this very moment, I would prefer to go to the other league to general-manage, rather than stay in this one.” He laughed and added, “Not that I’m lobbying for firing or anything….

“That’s disrespectful, too, what I just said there. Listen, I don’t know how else to put it, other than, there are no breaks in this league [the AL]. There’s no breaks.”

In summary, he said of Vazquez: “It’s not like we were trading a commodity we didn’t know we had. We knew how it would translate for our team and how it would translate for Javy once he went to Atlanta and the National League.”

White Sox are pleased with Flowers' development since trade

White Sox are pleased with Flowers' development since trade

Back in the Vazquez trade, Flowers was the guy the White Sox wanted most in the deal. The big catcher (6-4, 245 pounds) was coming off a monster performance in the 2009 Arizona Fall League when the trade went down, and he didn’t disappoint in his first season in the Sox organization and first above A-ball.

After batting .288 with 17 homers and a .921 OPS in 122 games at high-A Myrtle Beach in 2008, Flowers hit .297 with 15 homers and a .939 OPS in 108 games in Double-A and Triple-A in 2009, including .302 with a .993 OPS in 77 games at Double-A.

Was Williams pleased with Flowers’ continued development?

“Oh, yeah,” he said. “He’s going to have fun. We’re going to enjoy watching him.”

And we’re all going to have fun the next couple of days at the airport Hilton, surrounded by terminals and a sea of concrete, with the attractions of Chicago a good 40-minute train ride or $35 cab ride away. I’ll see Chicago next summer.

2687109149_2de56edaf0_o

Joan.

♣ Mighty Joan is back: We hated seeing an awesome season of Mad Men end Sunday, but the best news was that force-of-nature office manager Joan will return to a prominent role in the new agency next season. That is a very good thing. Now, we eagerly await the season-ending episodes of Sons of Anarchy, which has been better than ever in recent weeks.

Remember when TV was really not very good for what seemed like a decade?

Oh, and can someone give us a review after you’ve seen the new movie Collapse, if you see it before I do? Thanks.

We’ll go out with John Prine and Lucinda Williams doing a cover of this medley of songs by Hank Sr. off Prine’s 1999 duets album In Spite of Ourselves.  Here’s a link to the tune.

No one wrote them better than Sir

No one wrote them better than Sir

“WEDDING BELLS/LET’S TURN BACK THE YEARS” by Hank Williams

I got the invitation that you sent me,

You wanted me to see you change your name

I couldn’t stand to see you wed another

But dear I hope you’re happy just the same

*

I planned a little cottage in the valley,

I even bought that little band of gold

I thought some day I’d place it on your finger,

But now the future looks so dark and cold

*

Wedding bells are ringing in the chapel

That should be ringing now for you and me

Down the aisle with someone else you’re walking

Those wedding bells with never ring for me

*

Darling, let’s turn back the years

And go back to yesterday

Let’s pretend that time has stopped

And I didn’t go away

*

We had our love to make us happy

Love wasn’t meant to bring us tears

Love like ours should never die

So, darling, let’s turn back the years

*

I fancy that I see a bunch of roses

A blossom from and orange tree in your hair

While the organ plays “I Love You Truly,”

Just let me pretend that I am there

*

Wedding bells are ringing in the chapel

That should be ringing now for you and me

Down the aisle with someone else you’re walking

Those wedding bells with never ring for me

Those wedding bells with never ring for me

3,194 comments Add your comment

Andrew

November 10th, 2009
12:34 am

Andrew

November 10th, 2009
12:34 am

Andrew

November 10th, 2009
12:35 am

Andy K.

November 10th, 2009
12:35 am

Andy K.

November 10th, 2009
12:35 am

you can stop now Andrew

Random

November 10th, 2009
12:36 am

P-Town Brave (November 9th, 2009 5:27 pm): “Can I just say the 2nd part of your argument there really hit my point and hammered it home as the Bobby Cox of “now”….

‘01
‘03
‘06
‘07
‘08
‘09

“So you just mentioned 6 of the last 9 seasons, but I’m still wrong?!”

First — you did not originally qualify your rash and witless assertion in any way. This is exactly what you said:

“Bobby doesn’t run! Its as simple as that” — which is, yes, flat out wrong.

I’ll ask you again — What is the most significant difference between all those different Bobby Cox teams [ie, the five who averaged 142+ SBs per season and the five who averaged 60 SBs per season]? The roster.
What is the one constant between all those different Bobby Cox teams? Bobby Cox.
You would have to be a true igmo to simply say that “Bobby doesn’t run!”
If Cox has basestealers on base, he’ll let them steal bases. Otherwise, not.

It’s that simple.

But now what you’re saying is that “Bobby doesn’t run NOW! Its as simple as that.”

But it’s still not. Not at all.

Let’s go over Cox’ Braves’ five seasons with the most SBs and five seasons with the least SBs, and compare rosters.

‘91 — 165 SBs (68.5%), 30 3Bs, 749 Rs: ONixon (72 SBs, 124 Gs, 77.4%), RGant (34 SBs, 154 Gs, 69.4%), DSanders (11 SBs, 54 Gs, 78.6%), TPendleton (10 SBs, 153 Gs, 83.3%)
‘92 — 126 SBs (67.7%), 48 3Bs, 682 Rs: ONixon (41 SBs, 120 Gs, 69.5%), RGant (32 SBs, 153 Gs, 76.2%), DSanders (26 SBs, 97 Gs, 74.3%)
‘93 — 125 SBs (72.3%), 29 3Bs, 767 Rs: ONixon (47 SBs, 134 Gs, 78.3%), RGant (26 SBs, 157 Gs, 74.3%), DSanders (19 SBs, 95 Gs, 73.1%), JBlauser (16 SBs, 161 Gs, 72.7%)
‘99 — 148 SBs (69.2%), 23 3Bs, 840 Rs: ONixon (26 SBs, 84 Gs, 78.8%), CJones(25 SBs, 157 Gs, 89.3%), AJones (24 SBs, 162 Gs, 66.7%), GWilliams (19 SBs, 143 Gs, 63.3%), BBoone (14 SBs, 152 Gs, 60.9%), BJordan (13 SBs, 153 Gs, 61.9%)
‘00 — 148 SBs (72.5%), 26 3Bs, 810 Rs: RFurcal (40 SBs, 131 Gs, 74.1%), QVeras (25 SBs, 84 Gs, 67.6%), AJones (21 SBs, 161 Gs, 77.8%), RSanders (21 SBs, 103 Gs, 84.0%), CJones (14 SBs, 156 Gs, 66.7%), BJordan (10 SBs, 133 Gs, 83.3%)

‘03 — 68 SBs (75.6%), 907 Rs: RFurcal (25 SBs, 156 Gs, 92.6%), GSheffield (18 SBs, 155 Gs, 81.8%), MGiles (14 SBs, 145 Gs, 77.8%)
‘06 — 52 SBs (59.8), 849 Rs: ERenteria (17 SBs, 149 Gs, 73.9%), MGiles (10 SBs, 141 Gs, 66.7%)
‘07 — 64 SBs (68.1), 810 Rs: ERenteria (11 SBs, 124 Gs, 84.6%), WHarris (17 SBs, 117 Gs, 60.7%)
‘08 — 58 SBs (68.2%), 753 Rs: GBlanco (13 SBs, 144 Gs, 72.2%), KJohnson (11 SBs, 150 Gs, 64.7%), JAnderson (10 SBs, 40 Gs, 90.9%)
‘09 — 58 SBs (69.0%), 735 Rs: MDiaz (12 SBs, 125 Gs, 70.6%), NMcLouth (12 SBs, 84 Gs, 66.7%)

Okay, so tell me now — who on the past half dozen Braves rosters could compare to Otis Nixon, Ron Gant, Deion Sanders or even Reggie Sanders as far as stealing bases? Furcal? Who else? Who all has Cox kept leashed on the base paths in the last six or so years? Who this season did Cox not allow to steal bases who was able to?

Who has Cox had on his roster the last half dozen years or so who had the base stealing capabilities of even Quilvio Veras, Marcus Giles, Brian Jordan or Jeff Blauser?

Cox uses the players he’s given to the best of their abilities. Those abilities of late have not included base-stealing for the most part.

It’s as simple as that.

Oh, and as to your overall implication that the Braves need to run more, which I choose to represent as follows:

”Uhhhhh, duh Bwaves weally, weally need to wun mowuh, uhhuh, uhhuh, uhhuh!”

I offer the following:

In the Braves’ five highest stolen base seasons under Cox, when they averaged 142+ SBs per season, only twice did they manage to score 800 runs (averaging ~770 Runs per season).

In the Braves’ five lowest stolen base seasons under Cox, when they averaged only 60 SBs per season, only twice did they fail to score 800 runs (averaging 810+ Runs per season).

I suggest that you change your name to Coach, and get yourself post haste to wherever he disappeared to.

Igmo.

PS: And if it’s really your contention that “Bobby doesn’t run NOW! Its as simple as that”, why did you so conveniently omit ’02, ’04 and ’05, when the Braves stole 76, 86 and 92 bases? Didn’t fit your curve, hmmmmm?

Igmo.

PPS: Yes, you’re still wrong.

Ditto above.

nolie

November 10th, 2009
12:39 am

Dave is my hero now. Thanks.I take back all the bad things I said. ;)

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:39 am

Forgot to mention that the Braves got a two-day extension on that deadline to pick up Hudson’s option. Deadline had been five days after World Series, but since they have a three-year extension that needs only a passing grade on MRI exam, the parties agreed to extend the deadline so Huddy could get MRI tomorrow and finalize the deal.

Andrew

November 10th, 2009
12:40 am

i want tyler flowers back …thanks dob

nolie

November 10th, 2009
12:41 am

i want tyler flowers back

we don’t have a DH position

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:43 am

Everyone can rest easy tonight — my luggage and I have been reunited. Another Delta adventure completed.

nolie

November 10th, 2009
12:45 am

Whew, I’m sooo relieved. Now I can sleep.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:47 am

Doc

Think about this: Mac is an exceptional catcher. Probably the second best hitting catcher in baseball, and calls a good game. D is a little weak, but liveable.

Move him to first, and he becomes a defensive liability. He doesn’t save as many errant throws from the other infielders as a more polished first baseman would do, PLUS, he is now a middle of the pack hitting first baseman.

You just don’t make those sort of moves, at least not IMO.

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
12:48 am

This is the second time DOB has posted a picture of Cruz to head one of his blogs. Don’t want to get ripped to shreds for speculating, but I believe Dave has a strong feeling this is their top guy to go after. I know, I know, Cruz would just makes a ton of sense for Atlanta, that’s all.

Andrew

November 10th, 2009
12:49 am

put flowers at first

Andrew

November 10th, 2009
12:50 am

lowe and prospect for cruz ..get it down now

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
12:51 am

Sounds to me like this Kenny Williams should bite his tounge a little more or just choose his words better as a GM. We got it, the AL is superior to the NL & Javy isn’t good enough to be dominant in the AL.

MiamiBrave

November 10th, 2009
12:51 am

DOB

you are the man, much appreciated late night bloggage

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:51 am

nolie

If you ever wondered why I stay up later that I should, go to this website, listen to the second sound that is played (at 40% volume on my computer), and that is my constant companion.

If news ever gets out that WiU blew his brains out, this might be why.

Driving me frickin crazy tonight.

http://www.neuromonics.com/patient/treatment/index.aspx?id=50

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
12:54 am

Good Lord, ole Random is up to his dirty tricks even at 1:00 in the morning. Jeez man, give it a rest. Or, I should say ma’am with all your rolley eyes & smiley faces. No real man would keep posting those, would they?

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:55 am

Cruz would be a good addition to this club. I don’t know that there might be others who would work out better, but sometimes you gotta take what is available.

Would Lowe or Kawakami do the trick? Might have to add a guy like Adam Milligan to sweeten the pot?

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
12:57 am

I’m betting the NL has a DH within 5 years.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:58 am

TnBrian :evil:

What exactly is wrong :?: with a few smiley’s interspersed (sp) :roll: among a post :lol: now and again :mrgreen: ???

:shock:

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:58 am

TnBrian: I should have asked Kenny Williams what he considered the Kansas City Royals, if they’re not a “break.”

Randy S

November 10th, 2009
12:58 am

That was a decent blog, I mean, for an NL beat writer…I’m not surprised DOB was able to produce that…covering an NL team. I mean no disrespect, but if that had been a blog about an AL Central blog….

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:59 am

PWH: I’ll take that bet anytime, my friend. Because that’s not happening.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
1:00 am

PW H

What makes you think that (the DH)? Being a traditionalist, I have always like the NL way, but I am also a realist, so I can see that NOT having the DH puts the NL clubs at a bit of a disadvantage. Though I suspect that it would cost a bit more.

It would sure make it easy to either rest guys, or move a no field guy into the everyday lineup (Cody Johnson, maybe?).

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
1:02 am

Kenny W and Ozzie probably deserve each other…..but, I do respect KW for standing up to Scott Boras in the past. Does he have any of Boras clients on his team now?

Randy S

November 10th, 2009
1:02 am

AL Central team, that is, beer and iPhone make for poor typing.

Coach (I need more speed)

November 10th, 2009
1:06 am

Enter your comments here

ccrider

November 10th, 2009
1:08 am

DOB: And Cleveland, Oakland and Toronto this year

drumzalicious

November 10th, 2009
1:08 am

DOB:

If the Braves are trading Lowe and they do it as a salary dump do you think they would dip into the prospects to bring a slugger in or go sign someone that can give us pop at a cheaper price (Cameron, Nady, etc)

nolie

November 10th, 2009
1:13 am

This is the second time DOB has posted a picture of Cruz to head one of his blogs (TnB)

It might just be transference, I’m pretty sure he lusts after Penelope

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
1:16 am

DOB, you read my mind. The Royals,A’s, Mariners, Rangers, Orioles& even his White Sox all stink, but I guess K.Williams might say that they are equal to 95% of NL teams if they played in the AL. What an arrogant douche bag that guy seems to be.

nolie

November 10th, 2009
1:18 am

(SCOOTS)

are you a computer code guy? I disremember.

Bobby Hill

November 10th, 2009
1:18 am

I don’t think lowe has any positive trade value. Wren’s not going to be able to trade him for anybody other than somebodyelse’s bad contract. He may be able to get somebody to claim Lowe on waivers or something. If Wren is able to unload Lowe without eating any of his contract he will have done great.

nolie

November 10th, 2009
1:19 am

nolie

November 10th, 2009
1:20 am

nolie

November 10th, 2009
1:22 am

He may be able to get somebody to claim Lowe on waivers or something. (Bobby Hill)

you can’t honestly think that they are gonna put Lowe on waivers, can you? Sheeesh

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
1:23 am

Wayne, I liked that smiley face thing you did. Clever of you & you didn’t go over the top with it.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
1:25 am

Nolie, correct (Penelope)

Matt the Brave

November 10th, 2009
1:26 am

So, who else besides Cruz are the Braves looking at? I heard Crawford from the Rays might be on the block, but they just re-upped him for $10m for another year.

Do you think that Rick Ankiel is in our budget? Or would he be a bit too anxious to return day after day to the place where his career nearly ended?

Matt the Brave

November 10th, 2009
1:27 am

Oh, and saw Andruw Jones has filed for free agency… :P

Andrew in P-tang

November 10th, 2009
1:32 am

I think Cruz is the best fit right now..Ankiel is a lefty so i cant see that happing..Ludwick maybe if the Cards were shopping him..i really dont want to give up Javy..if the braves really wanted to keep Javy and trade Lowe if the Rangers are worried about Lowe’s salary maybe the Braves can eat 2 mill a year on it since Cruz only made 400,000 last year

Andrew in P-tang

November 10th, 2009
1:33 am

Hey the Rangers owe us for us giving them the world for Tex

Bobby Hill

November 10th, 2009
1:43 am

Given his contract Lowe has negative or perhaps zero trade value. No one is going to give the Braves something of value for a player who has no TRADE value. Expecting Texas to send anybody to Altanta in echange for Lowe is absurd. Why would Texas want to give up a valuable trade chip AND take on Lowe’s contract. It ain’t happening. If Wren was lucky enough to find somebody who would take Lowe off the Brave’s hands for some scrub PTBNL Wren would be doing back flips in the hallway of his hotel. And he’s be a fool not to take it.

Jay212033

November 10th, 2009
1:50 am

“I’m betting the NL has a DH within 5 years.”

It’s dumb for both leagues not to be equal anyway. Pick one and go with it for both leagues.

Jay212033

November 10th, 2009
1:52 am

If we could get Cruz for Lowe, B. Jones and Jo-Jo Reyes I’d be extremely pleased!

Jurrjens4NLCY

November 10th, 2009
1:59 am

DOB:

Have you tried “Portillo’s” yet?
I hope you enjoy Chicago…

berrygin

November 10th, 2009
2:03 am

I just can’t see the Rangers giving Cruz, a very cheap, very powerful hitter, for an old, overpaid Lowe. Rangers are already short Milton Bradley’s offense from 2008, now you take away their next most productive hitter??? Maybe, just maybe for Javy.

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
2:04 am

Random,

A smiley face would serve to disambiguate his intent, not necessarily negate any stupidity.

Doesn’t disambiguating the intent negate any previously perceived stupidity?

Supes

November 10th, 2009
2:19 am

If we traded for Ludwick we wouldn’t have to give up Javy Vazquez…more like Kelly Johnson and a relief pitcher.

Then we could try moving Derek Lowe to the Yankees for Nick Swisher, or a prospect or two if the Braves can’t take on the salary.

Those would seem the 2 more logical moves, that way if LaRoache is not signed, Swisher can play 1B until Freeman is ready.

Hiawatha Terrell Wade

November 10th, 2009
2:23 am

Regarding the point that the Braves could get more in a trade for Vazquez than they could for Lowe…I think that’s missing the point.

If they can dump Lowe’s salary on a team hungry for pitching and take back a modest return (say a decent bullpen arm), Wren can take that money saved and spend it on Mike Cameron as a 1 year stopgap to Schafer.

I don’t think that’s necessarily the way to go, but with the way Wren is building the team, a good defensive CF that hits right-handed, has power, and is available on a 1 year deal at a reasonable rate seems to fit pretty well with the big picture plan.

berrygin

November 10th, 2009
2:57 am

If the Cards lose Holliday, they can’t trade Ludwick. Then they would literally have no one to bat behind Fat Albert. We missed our chance to trade for him last spring, when people thought KJ was worth something. Now no one is going to give up a thing for him. He’s the Scott Thorman of this year. Only he does have a better chance of being good.

As for Lowe. At the end of 2008 he was 14 11 with a 3.24 ERA.
He had never made more than 10 mIl. He made 15 Mil last year. 15-10, but what everyone will notice is the 4.67 ERA. And that he’s going to turn 37 in June. Really, who is going to take that salary on this year, when they could have gotten him last year, coming off a year where his ERA was a run and a half less????
Braves don’t like to eat salary, but they would have to eat half of his, at least. And as mad as it makes me, the AL league a snob league, and not just Kenny Williams would think he’d have a 5.67 ERA in the AL.

And Mike Cameron is going to be 37 next year, struck out 156 times, and over the last 3 years has hit .250 or under. Is that going to be our cleanup hitter??? Is that kind of production going to put us on top of the Phillies???
Surely there is some better fit than that…..

Obee

November 10th, 2009
6:11 am

Might he have been referring to the DH rule, rather than the quality of the teams in the leagues?

By the way, thanks for the Meat Puppets recommendation. Never really liked them much before, but the latest is great.

Random

November 10th, 2009
6:17 am

P. W. Hjort (November 10th, 2009 2:04 am): “Doesn’t disambiguating the intent negate any previously perceived stupidity?”

No — it may confirm it.

Matt Layne

November 10th, 2009
6:23 am

I know hes alot of money but why is there so much disrespect for lowe? Have you all forgotten his work ethic is the spring? Or his amazing first start as a brave? I understand he had some bad games in the middle but overall he was a pretty good pitcher alot better than what we had in 2008. I say give lowe another year to improve and just raise payroll to add another bat.

Matt Layne

November 10th, 2009
6:26 am

oh and not to put down the american league but the White sox last year were…..um no exactly the braves of 2009. I dont want the NL to have a DH but if that is what it takes to make the two leagues even again so be it. Atleast the DH allows good hitters to stay around baseball longer after they can no longer play the field.

Matt Layne

November 10th, 2009
6:27 am

I will also add that Chipper will be a brave till 2020 if the NL adds the DH.

Random

November 10th, 2009
6:27 am

Bobby Hill (November 10th, 2009 1:43 am): “Given his contract Lowe has negative or perhaps zero trade value. No one is going to give the Braves something of value for a player who has no TRADE value.”

Stick around and see what kind of contract Lackey gets, and then tell us how “out of whack” is Lowe’s.

18 Wheels of Love

November 10th, 2009
6:54 am

Bowman, on his blog, reported a few days ago that Huddy passed his physical, therefore making the extension complete. So is the MRI not part of the physical?

Couch Tater

November 10th, 2009
6:58 am

I think it was Bill Giles of the Phillies, who’s very much like I am, very sensitive to baseball, who said, “You know, a little controversy between the leagues isn’t bad and maybe this is all right.” And so that’s why everybody has left it the way it is, including me. – Bud Selig

PWH,

It’s all about marketing the game. Nothing keeps MLB fans screaming more than the DH. Good for business.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/the_bonus/03/20/changeup.designatedhitter/1.html

Dude

November 10th, 2009
7:13 am

What about a salary swap of Lowe for Juan Pierre? That gives us a lead-off hitter with good speed that plays left-field. Then we can shift McClouth to lower in the order to take advantage of his power.

chuckw/deadjournalist

November 10th, 2009
7:23 am

dude – you’ve said what i’ve been thinking for several months; but i doubt the dodgers would take lowe since they didn’t make a significant effort to resign him.

Matt Layne

November 10th, 2009
7:25 am

To have a fair game in any sports the rules gotta be the same. In Interleague play and the World Series the American league will always have the upper hand till something is done about the DH one way or another.

Matt Layne

November 10th, 2009
7:27 am

Juan Pierre isnt the power that we need but it does seem like the guy is always in the playoffs. in the 00s alone has he missed the playoffs at all?

LoMel

November 10th, 2009
7:30 am

Ugh, Kenny Williams. And should you really be talking, sir? I live in Charlotte and have paid money to watch your sorry-a*s AAA team play since 2003, and since ‘04 the Knights have finished under .500 every year except ‘06. Maybe instead of mouthing off about the NL teams you should focus on working with your own system.

Bobby's Belly

November 10th, 2009
7:54 am

LoMel – Follow any baseball this decade?

Except for the fact Kenny Williams is correct, let’s bash him anyway.

37YearBravesFan

November 10th, 2009
7:56 am

Boy I hate this part of the year. DOB tries to keep us interested in Braves with GM Meetings blogs. Where is February???

DOB, just finished reading the piece on Minor. Sounds like we got a good deal. There was a comment about the kid being ready to pitch at the Major League level in a year or two, which then started me wondering, How will he break into a pitching lineup that still has Hanson, JJ, Kawakami, Huddy, possibly Lowe and Vazquez?

Or is that tooo far to think about, with toooo much that can happen between now and then?

GO BRAVES!!

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
7:57 am

18 Wheels: The MRI is another requirement for the insurance company that will cover Hudson’s contract, in addition to the thorough physical exam that he had early last week.

He’s had MRIs since surgery and has had no setbacks or discomfort that would indicate problems with the reconstructed ligament, therefore Hudson and the team are confident there will be no problems with this MRI.

Nonetheless, it has to be done, as a requirement for the insurance policy.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
8:00 am

37yrBravesFan: We don’t know which pitcher might be traded in the next weeks, which pitcher or pitcher might be hurt in the next months, or which pitcher or pitchers might be hurt or traded in the next couple of years.

So to ask how Minor might fit into the rotation in a year or two or whenever he arrives, is really a bit pointless right now, in my opinion.

stew

November 10th, 2009
8:02 am

Cruz doesn’t drive in enough runs for someone who hit 33 hrs. I don’t think he’s the answer. Plus he probably won’t hit as much in the NL. I’d rather make a play for Ryan Braun. I’d give up a lot for him. We need righty power and all our prospects are lefties. Actually the DH accounts for about 1/2 to 3/4 of a run more per game in the AL. AL games have more 10th or 11th pitchers (on the staff) working in them.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
8:02 am

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar has been diagnosed with a rare form of leukemia, although he’s been told by doctors that he can live a full life without drastic changes.

For those of us in or approaching middle age, he was one of the true sports icons of our lifetimes, and quite possibly the greatest college basketball player of all time.

McCann Fan

November 10th, 2009
8:24 am

Trade Vasquez and Freeman for Ryan Braun then sign Laroche long-term.

The Milwaukee Brewers

November 10th, 2009
8:41 am

Trade Vasquez and Freeman for Ryan Braun then sign Laroche long-term.

Duhhhh, otay

Cecil34

November 10th, 2009
8:41 am

DOB

Any interest in Jason Bay?

Ryan in TN

November 10th, 2009
8:42 am

Are there any possible deals in the works so far during the meetings? If not, do you expect anything to happen?

dpelfrey

November 10th, 2009
8:43 am

Mad Men was fantastic last night. When they were sneaking around stealing accounts and office supplies, I felt nervous as if I was actually with them. That’s the sign of a truly great show, when it sucks you in and you feel like part of the plot. Absolutely phenomenal.

Now baseball, I think it’s funny how Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen always put their foot in their mouth. You think by now the team president would have some sort of PR person following them around keeping this stuff from happening.

Anyway, I can’t wait to see how this offseason shakes out. And while it would be nice to put all the pieces in place perfectly before the season starts, we should know a team with a payroll under $100 mil needs a few pleasant surprises along the way. We’re not the Yankees or Red Sox and can’t have a surplus of proven bats and arms. Whether that means they need a big rookie year from Heyward, a couple of young relievers making a big impact (Medlen, Kimbrel) or an old veteran having one last monster year at the plate (come on Chip, we’re counting on you), it’ll take something on that order for the Braves to get back on top. One thing we know, they have the starting pitching to do it…and that’s a VERY GOOD START!!!

Josh Smildress

November 10th, 2009
8:45 am

Keep all the pitchers and trade Schaffer/Freeman for hitter- BOOM

RHR

November 10th, 2009
8:59 am

Can I get a definition of middle age? :D

dpelfrey

November 10th, 2009
9:00 am

I wouldn’t trade Schafer. He’s had a rough start to his career, but he still has all the goods. Plus his value is low now, so it’d be a waste to trade him now.

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
9:00 am

Keep all the pitchers and trade Schaffer/Freeman for hitter- BOOM

But do you think any team is going to want an aging band leader?

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
9:02 am

RHR – according to Wikipedia

The Middle Ages is a period of international history covering roughly a millennium in the 5th century through 16th centuries

timthebrave

November 10th, 2009
9:02 am

I just read the article about Minor. I saw him pitch against UGA and he completely dominated. He is not an overpowering pitcher but he had great command and location that day and I was really impressed. I don’t think he is a #1 starter but I definitely could see him as a no2 no3 starter

Efrim

November 10th, 2009
9:05 am

Bust erOlney wrote a blog about the Elias rankings coming out yesterday and which players it hurts(or helps). Here is his section on two Braves players:

There might be bad news for: Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano. They are both Type A free agents, and because both have some history of medical issues, it’s very possible that teams won’t be willing to give up top draft picks in order to land them. But it’s also unclear whether the Braves would offer arbitration to Soriano, who made $6.3 million last season and could conceivably earn something in the range of $8 million to $9 million. Gonzalez made $3.45 million last year.

RHR

November 10th, 2009
9:09 am

Oh thanks, jeffrey. That means I’m in the clear.

But anyway…

The New York Mets apparently have no plans to break the bank to sign an elite free agent.

Adam Rubin of the Daily News reports that the asking price of outfielders Matt Holliday and Jason Bay is expected to be too high for the Mets. The plans instead call for the Mets to sign a left fielder from the “second tier” of free agents.

If the Mets land a left fielder via a trade or free agency, that would allow them to use Daniel Murphy as their primary first baseman next season.

Any attempt by the Mets to cut corners will raise questions about the financial health of the franchise. Mets owner Fred Wilpon is among those who lost money in the Bernard Madoff ponzi scheme.

But but but …. Anders said they made 50 million.

Don

November 10th, 2009
9:13 am

Braves explore options???? The absurd thing is that they are exploring all kinds of options – but completely ignore the option that would do the most to improve the team – the options that is also completely simple and would cost very little – the option that is completely obvious and is by far the most significant and pressing problem. The failure to pursue this option also makes all other efforts to improve meaningless. The option that they refuse to pursue is the termination of Bobby Cox. They don’t need another bat or bats for the offense nearly as badly as they need a someone who knows how to manage the offense. They can make all the most desireable of trades or free agent signings and it will all be pointless as long as Cox is managing – unless their Pitching (like in the past) should be so great – so far far superior to the other teams that it overcomes his management procdures and lack thereof and enables them to win the over the long 162 game season – in spite of him.

nolie

November 10th, 2009
9:13 am

DAP

November 10th, 2009
9:13 am

i think what ken williams meant to say is “they play real baseball over there in the NL.”

MZ

November 10th, 2009
9:14 am

i can’t remember a time when the Braves had so many offseason options to consider … the Braves could either look extremely similar to the way they looked at the end of this past season or they could feature a decidedly different look:
Lowe, KK, Vazquez, LaRoche, Kelly Johnson, Ryan Church, Greg Norton, Mike Gonzalez, Rafael Soriano, Garret Anderson (i’m probably forgetting some guys) … some or all of these guys could be gone by opening day … then again, some or all could be back
either way, it has been exciting to watch the way this team has morphed and steadily improved since failing to make the playoffs in 2006 … 2010 (and the months leading up to it) should be just as exciting

18 Wheels of Love

November 10th, 2009
9:15 am

THanks for the clarification DOB. Now go check out the new Alice in Chains and Q-Tip records.

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
9:16 am

I don’t see the Mets sitting on their thumbs during this offseason. Especially after getting rid of Delgado’s and Wagner’s salaries.

Rock On......

November 10th, 2009
9:28 am

With DOB’s quotes from Williams it answers any questions I have about why in the world Guillen is a manager. Nuff said on that.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
9:29 am

ankiel would be a good option for a 4th outfielder and defensive sub, and thats it.

berryginMike Cameron is going to be 37 next year, struck out 156 times, and over the last 3 years has hit .250 or under. Is that going to be our cleanup hitter???

cleanup hitter, no, but he has also hit 70 homers, 218 RBI and stolen 42 bases in the last three years. not to mention his excellent defense which makes him an over all more valuable player to a team than jason bay.

McFann Ô

November 10th, 2009
9:31 am

Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!

“Oh, yeah,” he said. “[Flowers is] going to have fun. We’re going to enjoy watching him.”

Eat your heart out, Joseph!

:P

Wayne

Couldn’t agree more.

CB

November 10th, 2009
9:31 am

37yearsBravesFan,you hate this time of year? You foolish fan. This is the best time of year,we can forget all of Sept. disappointments and dream of what can be. We can make all the fantasy trades we want,we see only through rose colored glasses. All our good players are great,all our lousy players we can dump on other teams for their great players. You foolish fan,you don’t know what you are missing.

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
9:34 am

CB – you forgot the proposed lineups

Jim

November 10th, 2009
9:35 am

Nelson Cruz scares me a bit. He’s a little old to be considered a young prospect and he’s only had one good season, which was in a big time hitter’s park. I could be wrong, but I would be disappointed if we traded Vazquez for Cruz.

http://www.fanhuddle.com/atlantabraves <—- It's more commentary than you can shake a tomahawk at.

CB

November 10th, 2009
9:36 am

jeffrey d,uh-dream of what can be?

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
9:37 am

Let’s trade Jojo, Medlan, Schaeffer and Lowe for Ryan Braun. Then, get him to play first base and sign him to a cheap extension. Escobar can take Lowe’s spot in the rotation, and Ryan Howard can hit cleanup.

Oh, and we traded for Ryan Howard too.

McFann Ô

November 10th, 2009
9:37 am

Oh, and the Silver Sluggers will be announced on Thursday, I believe. BMac’s got it in the bag, but they’ll prob’ly give it to Yadier anyway.

;)

brent a.

November 10th, 2009
9:39 am

8:02 AM . . .

. . . and quite possibly the greatest pro basketball player of all-time.

Which he was considered to be in the mid-1980’s, before a player’s marketability became a key metric in evaluating his greatness.

Get well Kareem!

Go Lakers!

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
9:40 am

What if Tebow got the Silver Slugger for NL Catcher? That’d be the ultimate slap in the face.

McFann Ô

November 10th, 2009
9:42 am

jeffrey d

Tebow? Who’s he?

:P

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
9:44 am

Tebow is the man even Urban Meyer swoons for

http://www.orangeandbluehue.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/tebow-walks-off.jpg

And the man that I’m so glad is about to graduate.

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
9:46 am

Wait, is that Urban Meyer? Oh well…you get the point.

Matt Layne

November 10th, 2009
9:49 am

The mets are suffering from big time money problems. Frenchy might be the biggest bat they have in the coming years.

McFann Ô

November 10th, 2009
9:50 am

jeffrey d

I was only kidding…I know who Tebow is. Not bad for a home-schooler, eh? :mrgreen:

TommyP

November 10th, 2009
9:53 am

DOB: Good stuff with Kenny Williams. Any chance you could do the same with Texas’ GM on his thoughts on the former Braves prospects they acquired in the Tex deal?

This offseason is so unpredictable…. Wren is going to have to get creative this year. If Vazquez goes, the hitter should be pretty solid. If Lowe goes, it’ll probably be to clear salary for a FA????

No idea right now…

Isenberg

November 10th, 2009
9:57 am

Ridding of Vazquez, in my opinion, would mean the difference between a World Series birth and another mediocre season.

Al for ATL

November 10th, 2009
9:57 am

Love me some Mad Men. I have a total girl crush on Joan.

There are enough teams looking for starting pitching and few enough quality free agents, that eating some of Lowe’s salary in a trade might work but I think he’d be a last option for a lot of teams – kind of like he was for us last year. He’s not too old to have a rebound year, and he’s a good enough pitcher to do it. There will be teams later in the winter/early spring that wouldn’t mind having Lowe for 3 years at $9-10 mil a year.

Brewers probably wouldn’t trade Braun for anyone, but maybe Corey Hart?

ChopShop

November 10th, 2009
9:59 am

This Ryan Braun talk is laughable. He’s not going anywhere, my friends. IF Atlanta could trade for Braun, it would cost players that no one wants to mention. It sure wouldn’t be the littany of Jo Jo Reyes and his type.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:01 am

DOB, question for you…..I know how much you Loved Will Ohman, and I’m not trying to start 800 comments like we had last year, but it seems consistent with their strategy (ie: Proctor) to stockpile good arms in the event we lose both Gonzo and Sori. I know you had pretty regular contact with the dude while he was in Atlanta, and I’m sure he regrets turning down their initial offer last year. What are your thoughts on an incentive-laden deal for a guy coming off surgery??? Same would apply to X. Nady. I know the braves coveted him when he was in the ‘Burg, and even liked him in spring training this year. He seems like a no brainer to me. Thoughts????

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:02 am

and sorry….’Burgh I guess….my b

ChopShop

November 10th, 2009
10:07 am

What about Brad Hawpe? The word is that the Rockies will listen on him. What would it take to land Hawpe?

RC

November 10th, 2009
10:08 am

JReeves,

While I also like the idea of bringing back Ohman, I don’t know if I see the Braves carrying 3 lefty specialists in their bullpen (which is the way that Logan and O’Flaherty were used last year, and Ohman the year before).

Chessboxin'

November 10th, 2009
10:09 am

How do I say this? How do I say this?

Knowing all that, Kenny Williams nevertheless traded for Jake Peavy.

Kenny wants us to believe he knew all along Vazquez would have the ERA he had in the NL East, but was only incapable of putting up the ERAs he was putting up in the AL.

Maybe true.

But why then trade for Jake Peavy? Wouldn’t the same also be true of Jake Peavy, but maybe even more so considering the pitcher friendly home park Peavy was pitching in in San Diego?

If you are to believe Kenny Williams, he essentially traded one 4.00 ERA guy in the AL/3.00 ERA guy in the NL who eats lots of innings, never gets injured, only makes $11.5 million, and only had two years of contractual risk attached to him for another 4.00 AL ERA guy/3.00 NL ERA guy who doesn’t eat as many innings as the other guy, who is an injury risk, who makes $16 million, and who has four years of contractual risk attached to him (plus what they got back from Atlanta minus the players traded away to San Diego)?

Basically, Kenny Williams admitted to DOB that in trading Vazquez and trading for Peavy, he made a lateral move in performance while assuming more years and millions more in injury risk. His logic in justifying one trade undermines his logic in the other trade.

Daslied

November 10th, 2009
10:09 am

Somebody on MLBtraderumors.com (in the comments section of the Vazquez post) proposed trading Lowe and “other people nobody likes” for a power hitter. Good stuff, that.

Vampirella

November 10th, 2009
10:09 am

None of this blog-blather matters. The Braves aren’t going to top the Fillies. and, even if they did, they’d lose in the first round. and, even if they did manage to make to the World series, the best team in baseball history would spank their little bee-hinds. I don’t even have to tell you who that is. You might pretend not to know whose your daddy — but you do.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
10:11 am

RC, but logan wasnt up the whole year, and oflaherty was used for more than just lefties. ohman was the same way when he was here. by the end of 2009, we had 3 lefties in the ‘pen…i think it turned out to be a good thing.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:13 am

I agree, it would be in a different role….but if he is cheap, that is the key. Over a 3 year span lefties hit .225 off of him, and righties .277, but with only 2 HR’s in 213 AB’s. Also he only issued 46 walks to both lefties and righties over 417 AB’s…..those are impressive numbers from any bullpen arm. With Logan possibly being non-tendered….it never hurts to approach a minor-league deal with him early, and hope he doesn’t pass it up like last year.

CB

November 10th, 2009
10:14 am

The best team in baseball history,gee I am impressed with your sense of history.

RC

November 10th, 2009
10:16 am

DOB (or anyone else familiar with the rules of arbitration),

Since Kelly Johnson is likely to be non-tendered by the Braves if they are unable to trade him, is it possible that they could approach Kelly with a much lower contract than he’d make in arbitration, but comparable to what he’d get on the open marketplace, or would that be considering “tendering” him and thereby force the team to arbitration. I guess what I’m asking is if there is a way for the team to let him know that they won’t offer him arbitration, but that they would still like to sign him for a lower amount? It just seems like a big hole in the system that the Braves would be forced to pay him $4 mil +, but once they release him another team can sign him for $2 mil, without the Braves having that opportunity.

dpelfrey

November 10th, 2009
10:17 am

JReevesNovember 10th, 200910:01 am

What are your thoughts on an incentive-laden deal for a guy coming off surgery??? Same would apply to X. Nady.

While I hold out hope they will clear some salary and make a run at Holliday or Bay, I have a haunting suspicion signing Xavier Nady will be exactly what will happen. He would be an upgrade over Garrett, but not the big bopper they need to take the load off of Chip & Mac. It could be worse though.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:17 am

I will also state that I am FIRMLY on the X. Nady bandwagon. He is going to be this years sleeper pick. He was a stud before he got hurt, and would add excellent depth. It would be ignorant not to at least inquire on him.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:21 am

RC, the rules of arbitration don’t let the player make any less that I believe 20% reduction in their salary. That is the way it is intended. I may be wrong on the percentage, and I like your way of thinking….but the MLBPA uses arbitration to make their payers more money, that is the purpose for which it is designed.

rdawg

November 10th, 2009
10:24 am

I’ve got to admit, I couldn’t see where all the fuss about Mad Men was coming from after one episode, but after truly diving in this season, it really is an incredible show.

RC

November 10th, 2009
10:26 am

RC, the rules of arbitration don’t let the player make any less that I believe 20% reduction in their salary. – JReeves

I understand that. But is it possible for the Braves and KJ to agree to a contract (avoiding arbitration) of a lower amount? I don’t know if that’s even something he would agree to, but given that his home is in Atlanta I figured he might. Because it’s my understanding that once he is non-tendered he can negotiate with the other 29 teams in MLB, but not the Braves. Is that right?

Uncle Rico

November 10th, 2009
10:27 am

DOB –

what about this scenario?

Boston signs Bay & then trades him to us, along w/Justin Masterson, for D-Lowe, Schafer & KJ?
or maybe a low-level prospect if they don’t want KJ.

any chance of something like that?

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:27 am

And DPelfrey, I am not saying that X. Nady should be our only move in the outfield. I am saying it should be one of 2. Here is how our bench and outfield project with Nady. Everyone talked about the Phillies having a CIRCULAR lineup this year, with no beginning and end. Plug a bopper in the cleanup hole, and you add more depth….stronger bench…..and a more complete team. No disrespect to GA, but at this point in his career, Nady is 10x the player, even after TJ.

Starters:
McLouth (L) – CF $4.5 Mil
Prado (R) – 2B $425,000
Chipper (S) – 3b $13 Mil
POWER RH BAT – Trade/FA (R) LF/RF $9.5 Mil for 3 Years****Something in that range
B. McCann (L) – C $5.5 Mil
Laroche (L) – 1B $10 Mil for 2 Years****If he would accept that and stay
Escobar (R) – SS $450,000
X. Nady (R) – LF/RF $7.5 Mil for 3 years****

————– $50.875 Mil

Bench:
B. Conrad (2B) $400,000
Diaz (LF/RF) $1.75 Mil – Arb Raise****
B. Canizares (PH) $400,000
Infante (SS/3B/OF) $2.225 Mil
Ross (C) $1.6 Mil

————- $6.375 Mil

DAP

November 10th, 2009
10:28 am

RC, i think once he is non-tendered, he is a free agent, and any team can sign him for any amount. this includes the braves. the braves can sign him for the minimum, but they have to do it after the non tender him. the order they do it in is important.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
10:28 am

RC, you wrote: Since Kelly Johnson is likely to be non-tendered by the Braves if they are unable to trade him, is it possible that they could approach Kelly with a much lower contract than he’d make in arbitration, but comparable to what he’d get on the open marketplace…?

Yes, they can talk to him or his agent beforehand, let them know they’d still like to bring him back but at a lower salary than he’d get through arbitration, after he becomes a free agent. He could also agree to reject their arbitration offer, something that’s happened many times with teams in the past. Then they can negotiate another contract or sign another contract for an amount already privately agreed upon. In other words, yes, there are ways to keep him without offering him arbitration.

But on the other hand, Kelly might think he has a chance to make more or have a better role elsewhere, in which case he’d want to use this chance to hit the market by not agreeing to any of the above and forcing the Braves to either offer arb or make him a free agent.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:29 am

RC, no under the collective bargaining agreement, it is not an option to take less…..the players association wouldn’t allow that. Here is the specifics:

The club’s salary offer to a player under its control may not be less than 80% of the player’s total compensation from the prior year, and may not be less than 70% of his compensation from 2 years earlier. These rules, however, do not apply to free agents who are offered arbitration.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:31 am

I stand corrected :)

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
10:33 am

Chessboxin’: Funny you mention that. K. Williams was asked about Peavy after saying all of what I quoted him saying (and more) about the difference in the leagues and players going from one to the other.

HIs response to the Peavy question was, “That’s a different animal.” Meaning, he sees Peavy as being too good for it to matter.

(Of course, others might suggest Peavy was also too much of an injury risk at the point that the trade was made. Either way, we’ll find out over time.)

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
10:38 am

JCReeves: You’re correct. You and I are both right, actually: Because if they bring back KJ at 80 percent of last year’s salary, that is “much less” than he’d get through arbitration.

John

November 10th, 2009
10:39 am

Please resign Vazquez Mr. Wren. Pretty Please with a cherry on top.

btw, since you like Christina Hendricks so much you should watch this episode of the show “Firefly”, she is very hot in it:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4542/firefly-our-mrs-reynolds#s-p1-so-i0

CB

November 10th, 2009
10:39 am

If you were Ken Williams and you made this trade,would you not cover your rear with that kind of remark? The trade might still turn in his direction,but right now the Braves look like the winner.

Jim Hertel

November 10th, 2009
10:41 am

David, do you think there is a possibility the Braves will kick the tires on Milton Bradley while they are in Chicago? A Bradley for Lowe trade might be one the Cubs would entertain. Lowe should do well with the tall grass in the Cubs infield. Cox has proven that he can handle difficult players, and if it goes bad — all the Braves would have left would be 1 year at 10 mil.

ccrider

November 10th, 2009
10:42 am

DOB, I do hope Kareem Abdul Jabbar is able to manage his leukemia, but as a college player(Not Pro), I have to go with Bill Walton. Abdul Jabbar was an amazing scorer, but Walton rebounded, passed, ran the court, blocked more shots, defended better and still scored. The championship game against Memphis, 44 points on 21 of 22 shooting and 14 boards was the best all around college game I have ever seen.

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
10:42 am

For those of us in or approaching middle age, he was one of the true sports icons of our lifetimes, and quite possibly the greatest college basketball player of all time. DOB

I can tell you never saw Bob Lienhard play center for UGA.

rammerjammer

November 10th, 2009
10:43 am

This is an interesting nugget from the Dodgers Web site, posted yesterday afternoon, titled Dodgers Need An Ace:

“Derek Lowe was a good, durable pitcher, but when the Dodgers signed him, he was coming off a bad season, except for his performance in the playoffs. The Dodgers chose not to re-sign him because he had a questionable work ethic, in their opinion.”

Questionable work ethic?

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
10:44 am

DOB, This KJ talk leads me to questions about the bench then….what are your indications from the Braves brass in terms on needs? Norton walking/retiring is a forgone conclusion, and we have Ross and Infante back. Would they even want KJ back, or prefer to save money there with a Conrad? Also, Bobby loves his veteran PH, but can’t we save around 1Mil by letting Barbaro take a shot at it? What is your thoughts on the bench situation?

ncscoots

November 10th, 2009
10:46 am

HIs response to the Peavy question was, “That’s a different animal.” Meaning, he sees Peavy as being too good for it to matter.

Yeah, kinda. No offense to Vazquez, but, comparing the guy to a healthy Peavy is just a wee bit of homerism. Now, whether Peavy stays healthy enough to still that conversation might be another topic altogether. But both healthy and head-to-head? Sorry, Peavy’s the pick there.

Acorn

November 10th, 2009
10:49 am

why would the braves trade javy? isn’t it telling that people are asking the same questions? the braves should keep vazquez. they aren’t going to get a hitter worth javy and all teams keep their good prospects now. keep javy, trade lowe.

RC

November 10th, 2009
10:52 am

DOB and JReeves, thanks for the answers! And DOB, I agree that it’s unlikely for Kelly to agree to somthing like that since there seems to be a good chance that another team would offer him more money and/or a starting role. Just wondering if the option was there should both parties agree to go that route.

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
10:52 am

MZ – How’s the weather in MS?

DAP

November 10th, 2009
10:53 am

as for the braves bench, johnson is not ideal since he really only plays 1 position. conrad also most plays 2B, though ue is a little more versatile. but the braves have diory hernandez and chris burke in the minors that can cheaply fill that utility infielder role. i think the braves would do better not to have a guy who just pinch hits.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
10:53 am

jreeves: I don’t see KJ as a good bench option, because he plays two positions (OF and 2B), neither of them much particularly well.

Bobby's Belly

November 10th, 2009
10:56 am

Chess / DOB – Vasquez is not in Chicago because of his psyche, not because he can’t pitch. KW has (for now) committed to Ozzie Guillen and Vasquez simply struggled to produce under Guillen (see last 6 or so starts of pennant race in ‘08) – a mgr. who isn’t afraid to tell it like it is. Good trade for both parties. Braves needed innings. Sox have cheaper / equivalent pitching. Picked up a catching prospect who should be ready in a yr or two just when AJ is ready to be a backup.

RC

November 10th, 2009
10:59 am

Rammerjammer, I agree with you at 10:43. Prior to this article, I’m never seen anyone mention that team officials questioned Lowe’s work ethic (for any team).

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
11:01 am

So then he will be gone, non-tendered or traded for whatever we can get. So being a team with payroll constraints, we have to assume the bench is a place we need affordable “up-side” guys that can multi-task. Here is how it looks right now:

Bench:
B. Conrad (2B) $400,000 ????
Diaz (LF/RF) $1.75 Mil – Arb Raise****
B. Canizares (PH) $400,000 ????
Infante (SS/3B/OF) $2.225 Mil
Ross (C) $1.6 Mil

————- $6.375 Mil

The two question marks lay at the other utility infielder position, and in the pinch hitter. DOB, you think the Braves would let Barbaro have a shot??? We know he can hit, and Bobby seemed to warm to him after a small stint in the bigs last year. I also think he loves Brooks, in a Pete Orr kind of way. I would rather break camp with these guys and save money for the everyday players. You think the Braves are ok with that DOB???

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
11:01 am

Let’s trade Jojo, Medlan, Schaeffer and Lowe for Ryan Braun. Then, get him to play first base and sign him to a cheap extension. Escobar can take Lowe’s spot in the rotation, and Ryan Howard can hit cleanup.jeffrey d

You have captured the fantasy baseball players mindsetperfectly.

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
11:01 am

Derek Lowe did look sort of heavy this season

Daybed Wagmoe

November 10th, 2009
11:02 am

HIs response to the Peavy question was, “That’s a different animal.” Meaning, he sees Peavy as being too good for it to matter.

Yeah, kinda. No offense to Vazquez, but, comparing the guy to a healthy Peavy is just a wee bit of homerism. Now, whether Peavy stays healthy enough to still that conversation might be another topic altogether. But both healthy and head-to-head? Sorry, Peavy’s the pick there.

Could be homerism, but you could also call what Williams is saying homerism as well. Williams can’t say, without there being backlash from fan base and all over baseball, “Yeah, Peavy’s gonna be worse over here in the AL than he was in the NL. We knew that when we made the trade, but we decided to do it anyway. We don’t expect Peavy to be the pitcher he was in San Diego now that he’s pitching in the AL.” Of course he’s going to say Peavy’s a different animal.

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
11:06 am

I would like to see the Braves sigh Justin Duchscherer and/or KElvim Escibar on the cheap if at all possible. Escobar would make a good short reliever if he is healthy. Same goes for JD.

ncscoots

November 10th, 2009
11:11 am

KW has (for now) committed to Ozzie Guillen and Vasquez simply struggled to produce under Guillen…in 08

Didn’t seem to bother him much in 2007, though…same manager, same team, same league, same ballpark, and he “struggled” to 15-8, 3.74, 200+ K, and 1.14 WHIP. How do you figure that?

Could be homerism, but you could also call what Williams is saying homerism as well.

Sure, LOL, but that doesn’t stop it from being true. :-)

DAP

November 10th, 2009
11:11 am

if the braves dumped kelly and church along with letting norton and anderson go, thats around $9mil of the 2009 payroll gone. that would be enough to bring up two minimum salaries like hernandez and canizares, as well as sign a guy like cameron. all they have to do is find the money to sign xavier nady (i dont think it will take much) and youve got a very good bench. cameron plays center, mclouth right and nady and diaz share left. canizares PH and backs up first and hernandez is the 25th man. then when heyward is ready, you send down canizares and let nady PH and back up first and corner outfield spots.

this gives you such a versatile group, that guys can gets days off without really sacrificing in the field. mclouth can play center when cameron needs a rest, youve got plenty of depth at all the infield positions, and to protect against injury.

the only thing is if nady costs alot more than i think he will, he isnt a good option to become a bench player in the 2nd half.

Same name, different game

November 10th, 2009
11:16 am

Whatever happened to that guy Coach? I always liked his posts.

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
11:16 am

I will also state that I am FIRMLY on the X. Nady bandwagon. He is going to be this years sleeper pick. JReeves

Apparently you have been sleeping since you missed that Nady had his second TJ surgery July 10. It’s claimed that a position player can come back quicker than a pitcher but I think you have to throw those stats out on the second operation. Plus Nady has played 4 innings in 3 years at first base. He is an outfielder and I don’t want to see an outfielder playing 1B. This isn’t Fantasy Baseball.

ncscoots

November 10th, 2009
11:17 am

cameron plays center, mclouth right and nady and diaz share left. canizares PH and backs up first and hernandez is the 25th man.

DAP, you really, truly, by all that’s holy, have to step back a pace or two from the Hot Stove, LOL. The heat’s getting to you, man.

bravosfosho

November 10th, 2009
11:18 am

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had nothing on rod grizzard.

Matt Layne

November 10th, 2009
11:19 am

DOB: If the Nats dont sign Bobby V. do you see him being the Braves coach in 2011?

Bobby's Belly

November 10th, 2009
11:20 am

ncscoots – Not saying the guy can’t pitch. But when the mgr. loses confidence to the degree Guillen did w/ Vasquez it was time to go. On top of that WS had/have cheaper alternatives. Now they have an ace, power arm ……………………… if healthy. Let’s not compare FW to KW, it won’t go well.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
11:21 am

what, scoots? i thought anything was possible and imagination runs rampant in november?

Chessboxin'

November 10th, 2009
11:24 am

Homerism is what hitters call pitches they hit off Peavy when he’s not at Petco.

His HR9 rates away from Petco are twice what his HR9 rates were at Petco.

2.82 ERA/2.85 FIP at Petco.

3.79 ERA/4.19 FIP away from Petco.

Petco Peavy is a park adjusted fraud.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
11:26 am

keylargo nady has logged 543 innings at 1B in his career. he isnt a complete stranger to the position.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
11:27 am

DAP

I think if we open the season w/ Diory Hernandez and Barbaro Canizares on the 25 man roster, we are going to be in some trouble…..

I think we can do better on the bench.

Jeff R

November 10th, 2009
11:27 am

Sorry to read about Kareem’s illness. He was great, though I’d put Wilt Chamberlain right up there with him.

I’d be willing to see Wren package Lowe or Kawakami and a solid prospect for a younger righty power bat. But I wouldn’t want that package to include a pitching prospect, unless he’s a second tier prospect.

I don’t know if Schafer is considered damaged goods right now, but if Wren could move him as part of a package, I could live with it.

18 Wheels of Love

November 10th, 2009
11:28 am

My opinion on Lowe is that his mechanics were off on the days he pitched poorly. He would fly open towards 1B on many occasions. I just wonder if he was aware of it or if that is just how he has alway spitched?

ncscoots

November 10th, 2009
11:30 am

what, scoots? i thought anything was possible and imagination runs rampant in november?

Absolutely, LOL. And I give you points for imagination, never doubt it. It’s just that imagining an OF with McLouth, Cameron, and Nady, plus a bench of Barbaro and Diory, doesn’t strike me as reaching for the stars, exactly. :-)

But when the mgr. loses confidence to the degree Guillen did w/ Vasquez it was time to go.

Oh, I don’t disagree with you on that, at all. Didn’t mean to imply otherwise. Just pointing out that Vazquez has been able to do well in the same conditions as in which he has performed less well.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
11:32 am

DAP

I know you love Cameron and Nady, but they are guys that we might settle for, if we can’t get better players. Nady would be a long shot.

If Nady could come back to his bat of 2008, then I would love to have him in the lineup.

Cameron is said to want more money than the Brew Crew was willing to dole out. Is that a guy we want to go for? I think he might end up back in San Diego.

I would offer alternatives, but to be honest, I get dizzy thinking about all the possibilities. I think it might just be best for me to wait until the first move or two, then try to figure out what is next.

HEY, I have a great idea!!! Why don’t we trade Escobar and Jurrjens for a BIG bat!

(OK, OK, just kidding!)

:evil:

bruce

November 10th, 2009
11:33 am

Dave — It is so good to read the blog this morning and to begin the exciting time of news and interviews and preparation.

My Kareem story is that I was so impressed how humble and soft spoken he is in person. I paid for one of those autograph sessions and brought a rally towel from a Lakers finals game back in the Detroit years… 87-88 I think when I was working in LA for a year, had autographs on it from Brent Musberger, Chuck Daley, Adrian Dantley and maybe a Laker or two… and asked him to sign it… he was just a kind man who was patiently dealing with all the people in line, admittedly he made money, but he was very gracious. He seemed that way on TV this morning when I saw the very end of his interview. Impressive.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
11:34 am

18 Wheels

So, are you saying that Lowe did poorly on those starts because his “fly was open?”

:lol:

DAP

November 10th, 2009
11:34 am

wayne i dont think an opening day bench of infante, hernandez, diaz, canizares, ross is too bad. especially if weve got an outfield of nady, cameron, mclough, and laroche at first.

and once heyward comes up, i really dont think a bench of infante, hernandez, diaz, nady, and ross is bad.

im guessing your biggest problem is with hernandez, since you cant think canizares will have trouble filling greg norton’s shoes….but keeping mind that we would have hernandez as the third option at SS and 2B, and the fourth option at third base. he would be the back up of the backup. you like chirs burke better? whoever this player is (the 25th man, back up of the back up) needs to be making the minimum.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
11:35 am

Keylargo, Nady is said to be progressing well from his second TJ surgery, and is supposed to ready for Spring Training. I also think he is the CAPABLE of playing both outfield and 1B. The key here is depth, I’m not saying he is a gold glover….or even a starter for that matter. I wouldn’t say that Matt Diaz can play CF, but he handled himself well last year….therefore adding more depth to our bench. In the same light, I see no reason why adding Nady to the Bench if the contract is reasonable does not make PERFECT sense.

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
11:37 am

DAP

He (Nady) is primarily an outfielder. Like I said 4 innings in his last 3 years at first. 543 innings is 60 games.

People get fooled by a 1B’s stats because while he can make routine plays without costing the team, where a 1B really makes his money is by digging out bad throws and turning them into outs. You see those short hops starting to turn outs into runners on second base and the 1B does not get the error, his other infielders do.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
11:39 am

Personally, I would rather sign a veteran guy from a Craig Counsell mold than go with Diory. He proved he can handle himself with the glove, but he can’t hit his way out of a paper bag right now. Maybe next year, I would use a one year veteran.

18 Wheels of Love

November 10th, 2009
11:42 am

Wayne,

Maybe that affected his aerodynamics?

DAP

November 10th, 2009
11:42 am

keylargoLike I said 4 innings in his last 3 years at first. 543 innings is 60 games.

so what? he has been viewed as a backup 1st baseman basically his entire career.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
11:43 am

DAP

Problem with having a guy like Hernandez on the team (unless, of course, he learns how to hit major league pitching), is that ultimately, he DOES get used. Infante goes down the past two years. Escobar, for all his greatness, DOES miss games due to nagging injuries (or an injured psyche, whichever).

And for Canizares replacing Norton. I don’t want anybody replacing Norton. I want someone hitting like Norton did in 2008. I don’t see that a career minor leaguer is going to fill that bill. I think I would rather see Conrad up before either of those two guys, and he leaves much to be desired. Chris Burke??? Big question mark.

I just think that your bench guys get enough playing time and PH at bats that you can’t expect to have a championship caliber team with those two guys on your roster, that is all I am saying.

I just think we can do better….

Would you pay 1.5 million for a top notch pinch hitter? Would dang sure pay for himself over the course of the year.

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
11:46 am

Not bad for a home-schooler, eh?

Oh, you make me smile, McFann :)

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
11:47 am

18 Wheels

The older I get, the more I am afflicted with that same issue. And it definitely affects your aerodynamics for shure!

wjones

November 10th, 2009
11:47 am

“Matt Layne

November 10th, 2009
11:19 am
DOB: If the Nats dont sign Bobby V. do you see him being the Braves coach in 2011?”

What kind of coach are you talking about? Third base coach? First base coach? Bench coach? Hitting coach? Pitching coach?

I don’t think he would be interested in coaching, but he definitely would be listening if they wanted to interview him for manager.

However, I’m not sure what JS’s or FW’s opinion of him personally is. I can pretty much guess what BC thinks of him.

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
11:48 am

Mid Town Joe

November 10th, 2009
11:48 am

DOB

When talking about the great Kareen Abdul-Jabbar, we must not forget his great movie appearances in “Airplane”, and “Game of Death” with Bruce Lee.

AustinBrave

November 10th, 2009
11:49 am

I would love to see Nomar as our utility guy. Plus he went to Georgia Tech he may want to come home.

rammerjammer

November 10th, 2009
11:50 am

Hey, if Nady wants to sign for Scott Proctor money, I’m all for it. What’s that? His agent is Scott Boras, you say?

(cough, cough)

Uh, never mind.

dap01

November 10th, 2009
11:52 am

When healthy Peavy was a great pitcher but from the first day he arrived in the big leagues, people have said that his mechanics would lead to bad health. That seems to be the case.

As of now, I would rather have Javy. He wants to be here and he is doing great. Peavy did not want to be here and he is not doing so great.

I take Javy!

wjones

November 10th, 2009
11:53 am

“Personally, I would rather sign a veteran guy from a Craig Counsell mold than go with Diory. He proved he can handle himself with the glove, but he can’t hit his way out of a paper bag right now. Maybe next year, I would use a one year veteran.”

Weird thing about Diory, when they were forced to bring him up, they seemed a bit concerned about his defense, but needed him because he could play short, and hoped his bat would override any defensive shortcomings. Turns out, after batting around .370 in Gwinnett, he couldn’t get up to .200 for the big club, but handled the glove pretty well. I don’t think we can expect .370, nor should we, but surely his numbers in Gwinnett translated to a decent hitter, so the fact he “got his feet wet” last year could help him to be a decent option off the bench this year. After all, his bad MLB numbers were a much smaller sample than his terrific AAA numbers.

Ray Pugh

November 10th, 2009
11:56 am

A) Lowe does not have negative trade, especially in a offseason lacking quality starters (his FIP was a solid 4 flat, which also suggests the possibility of bounceback year).

B) One thing none of you are thinking is that he can be flipped for PROSPECTS if we offset some of his costs.

C) THEN, FW flips said prospects (and maybe one of our own) for a Nelson Cruz, Dan Uggla.

OR

D) Trade Lowe straight up for Carlos or Derek Lee (if he’ll waive his no trade clause)

OR

E) Dump Lowe on big market taker and use the salary to sign Bay. And YES, he is worth the money he’ll command (to us at least).

In any of scenarios A-E: Bravos 2010 NL EAST CHAMPS

McFann Ô

November 10th, 2009
11:56 am

jeffrey d

Thank you! :)

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
11:59 am

jeffrey

maybe I should have said “fore shore”?

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:02 pm

A little rainy over in Pepsi Cola Florida…

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
12:03 pm

NL DH argument:

Every idea is always met with some opposition. Nothing passes unanimously. And there will certainly be people who are opposed to the NL adopting the DH rule. However, the first reason that I think the NL will adopt a DH is because the DH position is good for players. It extends the careers of aging, positionless sluggers. When the right circumstances come around, one of them will find himself out of a job. He’ll then start to complain about the NL not having a DH, which will begin to formalize the polarization on the issue. And while initially some players will be opposed to it (likely the majority), eventually they’ll gravitate towards favoring the DH, due to the fact that it’s financially favorable for the players. The pitchers wouldn’t care, they’re getting paid market rate, regardless of the market. The owners could benefit from sticking an aging star in their DH spot for a season to sell a few thousand more season tickets. Ultimately, I think it makes economic sense for baseball, all around, but the support of the players alone might be enough to get it done.

Secondly, in general, when a firm position is breached, there is a natural tendency for sentiment to drift away from the original position. Change always leads to more change. Since the AL has established the DH, I think the general opinion on the issue has drifted from almost exclusively unfavorable to perhaps even 50-50. And I think it will continue to gravitate to the point where a firm majority of the baseball world will embrace the idea of implementing the DH rule in the NL.

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
12:06 pm

I would agree that Nady would be acceptable in LF if he is healthy. But I don’t see it in Spring Training. I just think it will take more time to heal the second time around. But, again, if he is ready to play 100% effort in LF, I would like to have him.

But on the other hand, how long can you wait to know if he will be 100% in Feb or March? If you sign him in December, I don’t think you can project that. Do you want to wait until Feb and find out he has had a setback and will not be ready? We did that last year and had a year of Garret Anderson. And I sure am not open to the thinking that he can play 1B if he is not ready for LF.

I think it very wise to sign LaRoche for 3 years and have my worries be about having two first basemen instead of not having any if Freeman does not pan out.

dmack2027

November 10th, 2009
12:09 pm

First of all, regarding the Vazquez deal, I think people discount Boone Logan as a meaningless throw in. Logan is a LHP that throws in the mid 90’s (from a 3/4 angle) and a decent breaking ball. Not many guys feature that kind of (closer) ability. I hope the Braves find a way to keep him in the ‘pen.

Nelson Cruz would be ideal. I wonder what it would take to get him. It certainly helps that the manager is less than thrilled with his approach at times. A player being in a manger’s doghouse can dramatically decrease the value.

If the Braves acquire a young outfielder (like Cruz), one has to wonder about the Braves’ plans for Jordan Schafer. If you agree Heyward will man RF for years to come, and Nate McClouth will be in one of the other OF spots, that leaves one OF position open.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:11 pm

Let’s trade Jojo, Medlan, Schaeffer and Lowe for Ryan Braun. –keylargo

Good idea. That is, if the Brewers were going to trade Braun. But as I and 75 others here have said repeatedly, they are not doing that.

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
12:14 pm

True, Brewers won’t….but I bet you Texas would take that for Nelson Cruz…..Take out Medlen and I do that in a second.

jeffrey d

November 10th, 2009
12:17 pm

keylargo?? That was MY retarded proposal!!

Joe Simpson the Great

November 10th, 2009
12:18 pm

Dereck Lowe, Jo-Jo Reyes, Jordan Schaffer, Kelly Johnson and Brandon Jones for _____________?

N8

November 10th, 2009
12:18 pm

“For those of us in or approaching middle age, he was one of the true sports icons of our lifetimes, and quite possibly the greatest college basketball player of all time.” DOB

Lets not forget about his handful of great lines in the first Airplane movie. Obviously not what most will remember him for. But it seemed so out of the norm for him, that it was great.

CB

November 10th, 2009
12:20 pm

jeffrey d,I don’t blame you,I would want to take credit for that trade. :roll:

JReeves

November 10th, 2009
12:20 pm

Keylargo….Nady can begin throwing exercises this month, “According to Tyler Kepner of the New York Times, Xavier Nady (Tommy John) and Chien-Ming Wang (shoulder surgery) are traveling with the Yankees to Minnesota.
According to Kepner, Nady, who is an impending free-agent, is progressing well from Tommy John surgery and expects to be ready for the start of spring training.

You will have enough of a sample size to at least tender him a contract. I would rather do it now, at a discounted rate. From a potential standpoint….the guy is worth it as a backup WHEREVER you put him

Jake W.

November 10th, 2009
12:20 pm

It’s funny, the point Kenny Williams was trying to make. Playing in one of the weakest divisions in baseball. How many wins did it take for them to get to the playoffs? And to be fair to Javy he didn’t get traded to a division where the offesne is bad. The only offense that was really bad in our division where the injury depleted mets and us. Phillies have the 2nd best (or 1st best depending on your opinion) in all of the major leagues. I personally feel the NL East is the second toughest division in baseball behind the AL East. If he worked for the Orioles then I would by his argument, but come on the AL Central?

Me personally would not want to have the DH in the NL. The top reason for me is that it would cost more money. Thats another position you have to pay for and if you ask me its one of the reasons why its so hard for a lot of those AL teams to compete with the big bucks teams because they don’t have as much money to sink into that position. Some teams have great DH’s while others I couldn’t even name who their DH is. Its just kind of a revolving door for some teams. Whoever couldn’t play that night. Not a position that they could afford to put that much money into.

Insane blogger who thinks Vazquez is overrated

November 10th, 2009
12:22 pm

Vazquez, Schafer, Hicks and Hoover to the Rangers for Nelson Cruz

Vazquez, Schafer and Kimbrel to the Twins for Michael Cuddyer

Vazquez, Freeman and Teheran to the Rays for Carlos Pena

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:22 pm

keylargo

Agreed on 3 years of LaRoche being a smart move, but I really don’t expect it to happen. Sometimes, when you are financially restricted, you have to make hard choices. I expect them to go with a 1-2 year cheaper alternative (Tracy, CJackson, Atkins, etc).

dmack

Definitely agree that hanging onto a hard throwing lefty is always a wise move, as they often eventually find their control or figure out how to pitch, versus throw.

For the same reasons, I will not have my feeling hurt if we can keep JoJo Reyes another year or two.

And, if we have Heyward, McLouth, Diaz, Schafer AND Cruz (or another outfielder who is better than a bench player), that would be a GOOD problem to have, doncha think?

Fore Shore!

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:23 pm

PWH: Doesn’t matter what the “majority of the baseball world” thinks about the DH. If the owners don’t want it, it ain’t happening. And they don’t want it, or not enough do. It’s not even something that’s a hot topic of discussion these days.

You wrote this:

Every idea is always met with some opposition. Nothing passes unanimously. And there will certainly be people who are opposed to the NL adopting the DH rule. However, the first reason that I think the NL will adopt a DH is because the DH position is good for players. It extends the careers of aging, positionless sluggers.

Dude, that’s actually a reason why it wouldn’t fly in today’s climate. Owners want to cut expenses, not pay one-dimensional players oveinflated salaries to do nothing but hit.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:24 pm

Insane blogger……..good name, and very accurate too.

:-)

RUMORS: 11/10 | Dodgers Nation.com

November 10th, 2009
12:25 pm

[...] of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution offers that the Braves are looking to deal Javier Vazquez, or offer him a contract extension.  The Dodgers are mentioned as a trade partner. However, it is highly unlikely that he will end up [...]

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
12:25 pm

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
11:01 am

Let’s trade Jojo, Medlan, Schaeffer and Lowe for Ryan Braun. Then, get him to play first base and sign him to a cheap extension. Escobar can take Lowe’s spot in the rotation, and Ryan Howard can hit cleanup.jeffrey d

You have captured the fantasy baseball players mindsetperfectly.

Thanks DOB, I can make myself look foolish without your help :mrgreen:

wjones

November 10th, 2009
12:25 pm

I am probably in the minority here, but I like the fact that the two leagues have different rules regarding the DH. It allows for a lot of choices. Some people prefer the NL game, with pinch hitters, double switches, pitchers hitting, etc. Some people prefer the AL game, with a DH, less taxing on the bench, pitchers staying in when they are going good, and an additional veteran or bad defensive player being able to prolong their career with his bat. Gives players and managers more choices as well, if they prefer one style over the other. I think it’s cool to see how the teams handle the strategy in interleague games and postseason. Does the AL team bench it’s DH, or find a place to play him? Who does the NL team put in for DH? For several years now, MLB has tried to, in my opinion, “homogenize” the two leagues, with elimination of league Presidents, combining umpiring crews, interleague play, etc. As a fan who always liked the mystery of two teams in the World Series who would never have faced each other, I like to maintain differences whenever they remain. But, that’s just me.

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
12:28 pm

What I’d like to see is Atl. get a Cruz type slugger, but what might be more likely, if they’re smart & extend Vazquez, is to trade Lowe for whatever they can get as long as they take on his salary, then go out & get a Willingham to platoon with Diaz or Church. You resign LaRoche & the offense shouldn’t have much trouble to support all that good pitching. I like Church because he’s a Frenchy in the OF, but with much better plate discipline. At least until Heyward gets with the big club, then do whatever with him.

OnDeck

November 10th, 2009
12:28 pm

I love all the crazy trade ideas on here.. especially by people who can not spell our own Braves players names correctly.

Our best bet to get a decent bat for 1B or OF would be to package Lowe, Schafer, Medlen, and Johnson. Problem is, every trade possibility I see, there is a big question mark regarding Lowe’s contract and the other teams ability to take on that contract.

Conspiracy Guy

November 10th, 2009
12:28 pm

In 1973, the US and North Vietnam signed the Paris Peace Accords. Under its terms, US troops would withdraw from Vietnam. Two years later, the Communists achieved total victory in Vietnam.

What else happened in 1973?

The DH first appeared in the American League.

That’s right… the DH is a product of the Communist regime. The DH, artificial turf, and domed stadiums. All part of a Communist plot to take us over through our national pasttime.

Think about it…

Baseball – DH, turf, domes
Hotdogs – just what is in those things, anyway?
Apple Pie – the last bastion of hope
Chevrolet – recently taken over by the government, just a step away from Communism

Be afraid, be very afraid…

CB

November 10th, 2009
12:29 pm

keylargo,ain’t it the truth,ain’t it the truth.

Insane blogger who thinks Vazquez is overrated

November 10th, 2009
12:32 pm

Vazquez to the Marlins for Dan Uggla

Joe Simpson the Great

November 10th, 2009
12:34 pm

DOB, I haven’t heard you mention anything about Kris Kristoffersons new album. You should give it a listen if you haven’t already.

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
12:36 pm

keylargo?? That was MY retarded proposal!! jeffrey d

I know it was jeffrey d, I just complimented you on your insight into Fantasy Baseball Players and after a little selective reading, selective deleting and some on purpose sh!t it became mine.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:38 pm

N8

I guess I am WAY beyond “approaching” middle age, because I remember Kareem Abdul Jabbar when he was Lew Alcindor, and played for the Milwaukee Bucks.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:38 pm

Now that we know Soriano (and Gonzalez) are Type A free agents, it’ll be interesting to see what happens. No way can I see Braves offering Soriano arbitration, but that’s always been the case. He’s going to end up taking a pay cut from last year’s $6.35 mill.

Gonzo’s the one that’ll be interesting, to see whether Braves offer arb after he made $3.45 mill last season.

On another note, DeRo ended up being a Type B, so any team won’t have to give up a first-rounder to sign him. With Prado as the every-day 2B, DeRo and Infante would sure be nice bench guys, wouldn’t they? Just don’t know if Braves can offer him the money or playing time he’ll get elsewhere, unless they want to play DeRo regularly in OF….

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
12:38 pm

I’m going to ride my bicycle before I get credit for all the good ideas on the blog.

Joe Simpson the Great

November 10th, 2009
12:40 pm

The Dan Uggla rumor is retarded. I like Martin Prado better than Uggla and I don’t think the Braves want to give a division opponent an ace like Vazquez.

Any John Smoltz Rumors?

Clueless blogger who thinks Vazquez is underrated

November 10th, 2009
12:41 pm

Vazquez to the Brewers for Prince Fielder

Vazquez to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp

Vazquez to the Rangers for Nelson Cruz, Justin Smoak, Neftali Feliz and Martin Perez

OrlandoDawg

November 10th, 2009
12:42 pm

After seeing what Abreu signed for last year, what would be the going rate for Johnny Damon?

Is that crazy?

ncscoots

November 10th, 2009
12:43 pm

At least until Heyward gets with the big club, then do whatever with him.

Do folks ever consider that a player, with whom you can “do whatever with” later in the season, might not be such a good idea at the beginning of the season? Or is that just me being picky, LOL?

mark

November 10th, 2009
12:43 pm

Long time observer of the blog, here’s my idea for 2010 roster with an eye toward 2011.

Re-sign Mike Gonzalez 2yr/$10MM
Sign Carlos Delgado 1yr/$3MM
Sign Matt Holliday 6yr/$108MM
Non-tender Kelly Johnson, Ryan Church, and Boone Logan
2010 25-Man Roster
C – Brian McCann – $5.5MM

C – Dave Ross – $1.6MM

1B – 
Carlos Delgado – $3MM (est.)
2B – Martin Prado – $415K

SS – Yunel Escobar – $425K

3B – Chipper Jones – $13MM

IF – Barbaro Canizares – $400K
IF – Diory Hernandez – $400K
IF/OF – Omar Infante – $2.225MM

RF – Matt Diaz – $2MM (est.)

CF – Nate McLouth – $4.5MM

LF – Matt Holliday – $18MM
(est.)
OF – Jordan Schafer/Gregor Blanco – $400K
SP – Javier Vazquez – $11.5MM

SP – Jair Jurrjens – $450K

SP – Tommy Hanson – $400K

SP – Tim Hudson – $9MM (est.)

SP – Derek Lowe – $15MM
RP – Peter Moylan – $1MM (est.)

RP – Kenshin Kawakami – $6.667MM

RP – Kris Medlen – $400K

RP – Eric O’Flaherty – $400K

RP – Scott Proctor – $500K+

RP – Manny Acosta – $413K

RP – Mike Gonzalez – $5MM
Payroll ~ $102.5MM
Hopefully they’ll up the payroll for Bobby’s final year (although it was $102MM in 2008) This way they can sign Holliday who will be a true big impact bat, Delgado as a cheap bridge to Freeman, and keep the starting pitching depth at least until the trade deadline (very cautious after we were trotting out Jo-Jo, Campillo, and Morton on a regular basis.) Only problem is lack of depth on the bench without a true veteran pinch hitter (but that might not be such a bad thing ie:Norton.) I wouldn’t extend Vazquez until we know Lowe can be traded. Trading Lowe would make the numbers a whole lot easier.

Resign Dave Ross 2yr/$3MM
Trade McLouth for prospects (preferably a 3B to replace Chipper)
Promote Freeman, Heyward, and Kimbrel
Let Vazquez,Delgado walk

2011 25-man Roster
C – Brian McCann – $6.7MM

C – Dave Ross – $1.6MM
(est.)
1B – 
Freddie Freeman – $400K
2B – Martin Prado – $2MM
(est.)
SS – Yunel Escobar – $2MM (est.)
3B – Chipper Jones – $13MM

IF – Barbaro Canizares – $400K
IF – Diory Hernandez – $400K
IF/OF – Omar Infante – $2.225MM

RF – Jason Heyward – $400K
CF – Jordan Schafer – $500K
LF – Matt Holliday – $18MM
(est.)
OF – Matt Diaz – $2MM (est.)
SP – Kenshin Kawakami – $7.3MM
SP – Jair Jurrjens – $4MM
(est.)
SP – Tommy Hanson – $400K

SP – Tim Hudson – $9MM (est.)

SP – Derek Lowe – $15MM
RP – Peter Moylan – $2MM
(est.)
RP – Craig Kimbrel – $400K
RP – Kris Medlen – $500K

RP – Eric O’Flaherty – $1M
(est.)
RP – Scott Proctor – $500K+
(est.)
RP – Manny Acosta – $413K

RP – Mike Gonzalez – $5MM
Payroll ~ $95MM

Payroll is back down to a more reasonable $95MM. Letting Vazquez walk lets Kawakami slide back into the rotation with Minor and Medlen waiting in the wings if anyone struggles/gets injured. Promote Kimbrel to groom for closer’s job in 2012. Shedding the contracts of Vazquez and McLouth frees up money for arbitration raises.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:44 pm

Insane blogger

While I would love to have Uggla’s power in our lineup, he normally has a low batting average but a decent OBP. K’s a lot too. Would you bat a guy like that in the cleanup slot?

BIG QUESTION: Where do you play him? Unless Prado is dealt, he is the starter there. First base? Left field? He has never played an inning at anywhere but second base in the majors.

bravesgrl4life

November 10th, 2009
12:47 pm

Joe, I happened to have seen Smoltz the last two Thursdays. He’s part of a group of guys that meet at a Norcross restaurant for Bible study on Thursdays. Didn’t see him there much after the Braves released him, but seeing him regularly during off-season. But, alas, I think his release from the Braves left a bad taste in the mouths of all parties, thereby leaving the slimmest of chances of a reunion between the Smoltzie and the Braves.

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
12:48 pm

Mark,

Love it.

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
12:48 pm

DOB, have you heard anything from the team that they’re looking at DeRosa, or are you just throwing a name out there?

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:49 pm

BTW, no way do you offer Vazquez for Uggla, as the Marlins are trying to dump him. Offer them a minor leaguer who is not on your top prospect list.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:49 pm

18 Wheels: I did check out Alice In Chains’ new record; wasn’t overly impressed. I’d rather listen to the great old ones with Layne, rather than guys trying to sound like him.

Haven’t heard Q-Tip’s Kamaal The Abstract CD yet. Isn’t it as good as last year’s Renaissance?

Efrim

November 10th, 2009
12:49 pm

He’s going to end up taking a pay cut from last year’s $6.35 mill. Gonzo’s the one that’ll be interesting, to see whether Braves offer arb after he made $3.45 mill last season.

DOB, if that’s the case and Soriano signs with another team for say two years and 11 million, then I would be upset with Wren’s handling of the situation. Soriano for less than 6 million annually is a pretty good deal, imo. I’m sure he will be pushing for a third year, which could be the tough part.

And I hope they offer Gonzo arbitration. I think he should get an offer of at least two years and 8 million. Knowing his own injury history, would he(and his agent) turn down more total dollars just to get back on the market next year, assuming he accepts the Braves one year arb. offer?

O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
12:52 pm

Guys,

Since the Braves seem unwilling to give LaRoche the money and years he is looking for, is there a right-handed first baseman that might be available that the Braves could trade for? I was asking, because if the Braves could trade for 1B, then they could sign a FA OF (instead of trading for OF, and signing 1B).

And along those lines, I was also wondering what do you think about Brad Hawpe from Col? He is cheaper and younger than Dye, and had comparable numbers. Hawpe hit .283, 23 HR, 86 RBI. And away from Coors, he hit .275, 14 HR, 39 RBI. He is a left handed RF, and I don’t know what his defense is like, so all comments are appreciated.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
12:54 pm

O’Brien, hawpe’s defense isnt great, but he is a pretty good hitter. id definitely take him.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:55 pm

Efrim

How could Wren sign Soriano for two years at less than his arbitration numbers. These players are told by their agents (and for good reason) that the arbitration process and FA process are ways to get more money. The only time they sign for LESS money is when they have exhausted those two processes, and are unsuccessful in getting a better pay day.

Then, and only then do they settle for less (Abreu last year is the prime example).

splitfinger

November 10th, 2009
12:55 pm

unless they want to play DeRo regularly in OF

… or 1B? He does have 23 Major League games at 1B.

Mark DeRosa, 2009: .228/.291/.405, 23 HR, 78 RBI
Adam LaRoche, 2009: .263/.263/ .526, 25 HR, 83 RBI

Is there that big of a difference?

Neither is the classic cleanup bopper, but DeRo might come cheaper per year, and he brings a ton more versatility.

Maybe he plays 1B until Chipper retires, at which point there is a viable in house replacement for 3B, and 1B opens up for FreFre.

And, maybe most importantly, you tick off Philly, who has targeted him to replace Pedro Feliz…

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
12:58 pm

Hawpe might be a non-tender candidate (but I am not sure on that one).

He is not considered very good on D, but has hit w/ some power. Is he better than Church? Church plays better D. Hawpe might have more power than Church.

Al for ATL

November 10th, 2009
12:58 pm

DOB – I have been wondering if the Braves might be interested in trying DeRo out again. He certainly came into his own after apparently psyching himself out when we last gave him a chance to start. But apparently, the Phillies are already talking to him.

Read that Boras is going to be looking for more than $17 m a year for Holliday. And here I thought we were in a down economy.

RC

November 10th, 2009
12:59 pm

While I DON’T want to trade Vazquez, the Cubs are going to need someone in their rotation to replace Rich Harden, and they also need to open a spot in the field for Jake Fox to get regular playing time. With that in mind, what if the Braves send Vazquez to Chicago for Derrek Lee, allowing them to move Jake Fox to 1b, and allowing the Braves to go after a lesser bat in LF (since Lee definitely fits the right-handed power bat description).

McPoyle

November 10th, 2009
1:01 pm

DOB… saw the Kenny Williams quotes and I couldn’t help but laugh, he does no wrong. I’m a Chicago guy and can’t stand him. I know you have to stay in good graces with these guys, but are you a Kenny fan?

Saw how they were interested in going after Chone Figgins this offseason, but he may be out of their price range. Hmm, that’s interesting. If Kenny didn’t go after that horrible Rios contract, not to mention trading for Peavy who pitched like 3 games last season, they might have some money for Chone.

Kenny gives credit to Javy, saying he knew he’d do well… but then undermines that “credit” by saying the NL is a weaker league. Typical Kenny style. ‘Yea, I’ll give the guy some dap, as long as it doesn’t make me look bad for trading him away.’

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
1:01 pm

DeRosa will be 35 next February.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
1:05 pm

RC

I would make that JV for Lee deal. I think that the Cubbies might also be interested in that one, as JV could be a top of the rotation starters. Lee might start slipping, but would be worth the gamble, I suspect.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
1:06 pm

I guess I am WAY beyond “approaching” middle age, because I remember Kareem Abdul Jabbar when he was Lew Alcindor, and played for the Milwaukee Bucks. — Wayne.

Good for you. I guess you didn’t read carefully what I wrote, which was “For those of us in or approaching middle age…”

By the way, maybe you’re way beyond middle age — I have no idea — but that’s not a requirement to remember Kareem when he was Lew Alcindor playing for the Bucks. I’m 45, clearly not “beyond middle age,” and I remember him playing for the Bucks along with the great Oscar Robinson. Robertson.

He changed his name from Lew Alcindor in 1971. I was eight, I guess. And I remember when it happened and the reaction some people had.

Doing the math, a 50-year-old today (and 50 is still not anywhere near “way beyond middle age” in my book) would have been 13 when Lew became Kareem.

So you see, it wasn’t that long ago, or at least not as long as you imply. (smile)

18 Wheels of Love

November 10th, 2009
1:06 pm

Fair assessment of the new AIC but I have to admit that while I love the Layne Staley stuff, I’m digging the new album. I think people are wrong however when they say the new guy sounds like Layne…I actually think it is them hearing Jerry Cantrell and not realizing that he sang so much on the previous albums.

The Q-Tip record is fantastic and I think it is even better than The Renaissance. The new one was actually recorded 10 years ago and has a lot of jazz undercurrents to it, but it sounds like he could have recorded it this year. It’s got a lot more Tribe feel to it than The Renaissance. You need to check it out – evidently it had been leaked out years ago and has been a bit underground hit.

RC

November 10th, 2009
1:07 pm

Mike Cameron anyone? I’m not sure I’d be on board, but there is an interesting article at fangraphs that talks about how he’s actually been more valuable in recent years than Jason Bay.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/bay-vs-cameron

I think I’d be ok w/ Cameron as a 2nd bat to acquire, but he shouldn’t be the primary offensive weapon the Braves get this offseason.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
1:08 pm

splitfinger
Mark DeRosa, 2009: .228/.291/.405, 23 HR, 78 RBI
Adam LaRoche, 2009: .263/.263/ .526, 25 HR, 83 RBI

Is there that big of a difference?

first of all, the numbers you posted are false. second, yes there is a big difference.

laroche is a first baseman and a very good one. he is 4 years younger in out OPSed derosa by almost 100 points in 2009, and by almost 70 points for their careers.

by the way their actual lines for 2009 laroche .277/.355/.488 derosa .250/.319/.433. you got the homers and RBI right, though.

wayneHawpe might be a non-tender candidate (but I am not sure on that one).

hes not. the rockies have him signed for two more years and he just had a pretty good season. (OPSed .903)

beekay

November 10th, 2009
1:10 pm

I had no idea Freddie had such a good glove

2. Freddie Freeman, 1b Born: Sept. 12, 1989. B-T: L-R. Ht.: 6-5. Wt.: 220.
Drafted: HS—Orange, Calif., 2007 (2nd round). Signed by: Tom Battista.
Background: The youngest player to sign out of the 2007 draft, Freeman continues to be Robin to Jason Heyward’s Batman. He reached Double-A at age 19 last summer and hit .319/.354/.493 in his first month there before lingering soreness in his left wrist hampered his production. He missed the last two weeks, but didn’t need surgery and headed to the Arizona Fall League.

Strengths: Freeman has been an RBI machine at every level, thriving with runners in scoring position. He drives the ball with consistency with a sweet, fluid swing, and scouts believe his doubles will become homers as he gains experience and strength. Comparisons to Keith Hernandez and Mark Grace with more power have become commonplace because of his defense, which managers rated the best among first basemen in both the Carolina and Southern leagues last season.

Weaknesses: Freeman runs well enough for a big man but never will be noted for his speed. His attacking approach at the plate doesn’t lend itself to walks, but Atlanta gladly will sacrifice some on-base percentage for RBIs.

The Future: The Braves will seek a stopgap solution at first base for 2010, with an eye on turning the position over to Freeman the next season. With him and Heyward, the Braves should be set at the right-side corners for the foreseeable future.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
1:19 pm

Dave

At 54, I was 10 when Alcindor’s freshman team beat the UCLA varsity. Don’t remember the game, but what a college career!

And some days, 54 feels WAY beyond approaching middle aged!

:-)

splitfinger

November 10th, 2009
1:20 pm

Hmm… it appears I did err in the numbers I pulled to post.

Nevermind…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0

Lew

November 10th, 2009
1:25 pm

Yes, we Old Farts remember when Kareem was the best basketball player there was. And we Rven Older Farts remember when he went by his real,name-Lew.

BTW-Xavier Nady was NOT a stud before he was hurt. He was a relatively decent player and that’s about it.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
1:29 pm

DOB

Oscar Robertson…….not Robinson. And he was indeed a great one.

RC

November 10th, 2009
1:41 pm

Another 1b option….

I’m seen a lot of talk here about Dan Uggla as a trade target…personally I think that’s a terrible idea. But what about Jorge Cantu instead? He’s arbitration eligible, meaning that the Marlins might be looking to move him, and he should provide similar numbers to DeRosa. Cantu will also be only 28 next season, and is right-handed.

Geo123

November 10th, 2009
1:46 pm

Enter your comments here

monty

November 10th, 2009
1:49 pm

Some have suggested trade Javy for Derrick Lee. Lee had a nice year for sure but somewhat disconcerting was his performance agaist LHP. He hit only 3 HR’s in 90 AB’s against LHP last year and only had 12 rbi. His slugging was also way down against lefties than righties. Is this an anomally because his career numbers bare out that he hits lefties better than righties? Or is there more than meets the eye? There is some evidence that he was pitched around by lefties last year(1 walk every 5 or so plate appearances) more than he has been career wise( 1 walk every 7 or so plate appearances). He would be a good aquisition if you had to trade Javy(not for it personally). But is he the big bopper against LHP we need or would they simply pitch around him as it appears they did last season? I do like the fact that he hit well against RHP though. He isn’t someone that drops off against same side pitchers.

RC

November 10th, 2009
1:49 pm

beekay, that’s an awesome profile on Freeman. Where did it come from?

DAP

November 10th, 2009
1:50 pm

RCI’m seen a lot of talk here about Dan Uggla as a trade target…personally I think that’s a terrible idea. But what about Jorge Cantu instead?

how is cantu a better option than uggla? if youre talking about sticking uggla at 1st, too, i dont know why you like cantu more than uggla.

Bay Area Steve

November 10th, 2009
1:51 pm

Chessboxin’,

nice post regarding Peavy/Vazquez. Sure seems lateral-movish to me, even though scoots disagrees (always a red flag). You know anything about the kids the Padres received? Could it be said that they are a better/worse return than Lil’ and Flowers?

Random,

Braveheart’s line was funny. A bit insensitive perhaps, but to single out that line is to weigh political correctness over funny. We know the source, we know there is no harmful intent, funny wins.

And, knowing your content here, is it possible you singled the line out because he disagrees with your KK position? For me, certainly not sayin’ dude’ll be traded. But, 100% won’t be? Seems unknowable.

Geo123

November 10th, 2009
1:53 pm

Supes,

Don’t tell me you’re serious with this offer. The Cardinals wouldn’t trade Ludwick to you for anything less than Escobar. They are looking to add a bat and with Holliday probably leaving Ludwick becomes almost untradeable.

Johnson and a relief pitcher? Come on! Johnson couldn’t even beat out Schumacher as our 2B (Schumacher is coming off a .300 year) and besides you may even have to release Johnson. Why don’t you just recommend trading Lowe for Wainwright and Pujols…

“Supes

November 10th, 2009
2:19 am
If we traded for Ludwick we wouldn’t have to give up Javy Vazquez…more like Kelly Johnson and a relief pitcher.”

NEW CARS

November 10th, 2009
1:54 pm

If we could traded Lowe and a MLP like Reyes and a Delgado to California for Rivera and Brandon Wood, would we have the nerve to go out and trade Vazqez for Derek Lee. Then your lineup would be
mcclouth
prado
jones
lee
mccann
escobar
heyward
rivera

Wood is your 3b of the future
rotation
juurjens
hudson
hanson
kawakami
medlen

Is that a little too aggressive for you guys, do you think the back end of the rotation would be a little too weak. I have two distinct needs targeted…a true cleanup hitter and a long-term replacement for Chipper. If we could make the trade for Rivera and Wood and resign Laroche, I might be satisfied. I just want us to have a scary bat in the middle of the lineup. I think Wood is a hidden gem that could play short or third AND be a big stick in the lineup. His history is similar to Nelson Cruz, except he’s done BETTER in the minors and his cups of coffee….Just saying

LOOGY

November 10th, 2009
1:55 pm

DOB, I just realized that there is a right handed slugging outfielder avaliable who is NOT a type A free agent. He plays above average defense. He won’t cost prospects in a trade. He’s a former brave. His name is Andruw Jones. Do you think he will be considered?

DAP

November 10th, 2009
1:56 pm

montyBut is he the big bopper against LHP we need or…

thats not what we need, monty. in 2009 the braves hit better against lefties than they did against righties.

by the way, i dont to trade vazquez either, but i think vazquez for derek lee would be so worth it.

Graham

November 10th, 2009
1:58 pm

DOB – Not sure if you care for Norah Jones, but her new CD is excellent. It has a different sound than her previous releases. Good stuff. Got an early copy from a friend in TN, who received a promo copy.

RC

November 10th, 2009
1:59 pm

Monty,

Great point about Derrek Lee’s apparent absence of power vs. LHP last season. However, he did have 24 walks vs 18 K’s against them, with an OBP of .444. Considering that Milton Bradley was hitting behind him for much of the year (Ramirez was hurt), it probably just means that LHP were pitching around him last year.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 10th, 2009
2:01 pm

LOOGY….Andruw Jones a right handed slugging outfielder? Not in a few years bud. Have you been under a rock the last few years? Andruw is horrible and isn’t going to bounce back, he had the opportunity to show he could bounce back last year working with one of the most respected hitting coaches in baseball and he still sucked. So NO, Andruw will NOT be considered.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
2:02 pm

LOOGY

Your joking, right? Maybe a spring invite, for old times sake? But, only if he is under 225 lbs when he reports.

On second thought……no thanks.

Jimmy Joe

November 10th, 2009
2:05 pm

Not too much happening at the GM meetings. Wasn’t Lidge traded during these meetings two years ago?

Tomahawk1310

November 10th, 2009
2:06 pm

DOB

No updates from the meetings today? Any more rumors floating around?

Chessboxin'

November 10th, 2009
2:10 pm

The players wouldn’t want the DH for financial reasons either. It likely wouldn’t increase revenue, but it would create 16 more positions for the same pool of money. Those 16 newly created positions would usually be veteran players putting up respectable offensive stats, thus meaning they have to be paid pretty darn good —– much more than the league minimum making scrubs that typically fill the NL benches.

You have a job. At your job, there are 13 employees. Your boss has a $52 million budget. 3 guys are making $10 million a year. 5 guys are making $4 million a year. 5 guys are making $400K a year. Your boss announces that he is eliminating one of the 5 $400K slots usually slotted for the FNGs, and is adding a multi-million dollar slot called DH for very experienced and accomplished workers. And he’s not increasing the budget. Now the $50 million usually slotted for the 8 best in your office has to be split $50.4 million for your best 9 guys. It’s effectively a 10% reduction in salary.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
2:10 pm

I’ve got it. Andruw Jones for left field, Scott Thorman for first base, Wilson Betemit for pinch hitter, and Andy Marte for the 2nd backup infielder and Chipper’s eventual replacement.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 10th, 2009
2:14 pm

Great ideas Wayne!! Don’t forget, after trading Vazquez and Lowe, the Braves pick up Bruce Chen and Odalis Perez to fill out the starting rotation!

Andres Thomas

November 10th, 2009
2:14 pm

DAP

November 10th, 2009
2:17 pm

loogyHe plays above average defense.

yes, he plays very good defense, while he sits on the bench as the DH. any ball that comes near the dugout is all his.

LOOGY

November 10th, 2009
2:20 pm

Hey folks! 17 homers in 281 at bats. That’s 30 in a full season. Pretty much a bargain for nothing. And more homers than anyone else on the team would hit.

Tim McCarver

November 10th, 2009
2:21 pm

You’re a real man, Deion. A real man.

RHR

November 10th, 2009
2:22 pm

I don’t see KJ as a good bench option, because he plays two positions (OF and 2B), neither of them much particularly well.

I guess scoots, Wayne, and the Steves have already deleted their fans of dob facebook group membership….no need for me to check. :lol:

LOOGY

November 10th, 2009
2:24 pm

Yeah because Scott Thorman, Wilson Betemit, and Andy Marte are proven major league players? Grow up. If you can get 30 homers on a one year incentive laden deal, I think anyone would take that.

Hillbilly

November 10th, 2009
2:24 pm

18 WOL,

Been meaning to ask you whether you’ve got an opinion of the DBTs The Fine Print release. I haven’t bought it yet, but I’m putting it on the Christmas list along with Murdering Oscar and Live From Austin. If you don’t mind, give me a review of all three.

RHR

November 10th, 2009
2:26 pm

Holy crap Kareem used to have another name? I really didn’t know that. Lew Alcindor? Huh. How about that. I have learned something new.

McPoyle

November 10th, 2009
2:28 pm

Some of the trade people come up with on here are just insane. “why don’t we trade d lowe and javy and get D Lee and Juan Rivera…”

Yea, sure thing. we might as well trade martin prado for chase utley and escobar for hanley ramirez. oh wait, let’s deal mcclouth for curtis granderson while we’re at it!

I hate the draft

November 10th, 2009
2:28 pm

Imagine if the Braves didn’t offer arbitration to Soriano, Gonzalez and LaRoche. Then signed Billy Wagner and had to give their first round pick to the Red Sox.

That means they’d have no first round picks, like in 08. I think that would be hilarious.

My mother in 1987

November 10th, 2009
2:28 pm

“Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is Lew Alcindor? I wondered what happened to him!”

MattyRoss

November 10th, 2009
2:30 pm

LOL (and I hate typing that)

Daslied

November 10th, 2009
2:30 pm

LOOGY – Andruw’s 2009 line away from Arlington:

.199/.294/.411

2009 2nd half:
.185/.310/.333

2009 innings in the outfield (not center, either):
30

What does that tell you?

RHR

November 10th, 2009
2:32 pm

You remember what your mom said in 1987? Kudos to you, I don’t remember what my mom said last week.

RHR

November 10th, 2009
2:34 pm

All I really want to know out of these winter meetings is if the braves are going to re-sign Norty.

Sgt. Pepper

November 10th, 2009
2:37 pm

I think we should try Yunel Escobar as closer. We all know he has a cannon for an arm. Just slide him onto the mound in the 9th and let Infante play shortstop. Cheap solution to our 9th inning question mark.

But just to be safe, I’m hoping we offer Mike Gonzalez arbitration.

My mother in 1987

November 10th, 2009
2:40 pm

I remember about anything my mother ever said that pertained to sports.

Fred

November 10th, 2009
2:45 pm

LOOGY, Do you honestly believe Andruw could again hit 30 HRs in a season? What has he done over the past 3 years that would support your position?

[...] That is the burning question surrounding BravesNation on the MLB Hot Stove this week at the GM meetings. [...]

wjones

November 10th, 2009
2:49 pm

I still can’t get over Andruw’s rapid descent. I mean he hit 50 homers just 4 years ago. He hit 40 homers only 3 years ago. He still is only 32. Was he so out of shape that it destroyed him? He lost all his speed before 30. Just sad, really.

RC

November 10th, 2009
2:51 pm

LOOGY, I’ll grant you that Andruw could hit 30 HR in a season with 600 AB. But is 30 HR with a .200 AVG and a .250 OBP really worth it?

Nova Scotia Steve

November 10th, 2009
2:51 pm

Could we be interested in signing Delgado to a one year contract????

Nova Scotia Steve

November 10th, 2009
2:53 pm

That’s ofcourse if we don’t re-sign LaRoche…but you gotta think Delagado’s price tag is gunna fall significantly

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 10th, 2009
2:54 pm

LOOGY—Is that all you see in a baseball player, how many homeruns he might hit? The guy hit .214 last year and barely played in the field because everyone sees (except maybe you anyway) that he has lost more than a step in the outfield. The guy is washed up and will never be an everyday ball player again.

Gloom & Doom

November 10th, 2009
2:55 pm

Shouldn’t the Hudson extension been announced by now? They must of seen something on the MRI.

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
2:58 pm

But in moving Lowe or Kawakami, the Braves aren’t likely to get much in return DOB

True. But trading Lowe would be nice salary dump to go after a Jason Bay. The Yanks aren’t adding big name free agents this year, so it’s plausible that the Braves could sign Bay if they dump Lowe’s salary because that is one less big market team to compete with. There’s hardly a market for FA starting pitching, so a team could find Lowe ideal if they don’t have to give up much in return.

Btw, those damn Phillies cost me a $100. Last time I root for them.

monty

November 10th, 2009
2:59 pm

I don’t know if it has been mentioned on here but to me the best line from anyone in the World Series was by Joe Girardi(?) “Lee can’t pitch every game,” after Lee’s dominant game 1 performance against the Yankees. It proved prophetic. In other words the Phils didn’t have enough pitching to worry the Yanks, and they didn’t!

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
3:05 pm

DOB,

I’m kinda seeing this KU alum. Thought you’d like to know. Don’t think it’s gonna last though. KU looks good this year, btw. They’re my favorite to take the tourney.

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
3:10 pm

RHR-

Your 2:22 is the front runner for best post of the day.:)

Ace of Braves -

Is that like the cousin of Ace of Cakes?

Loogy –

I’m certain that yes, once upon a time Fat Roll Jones could hit 30, but that was before he realized the art of the all you can eat buffet while at 2 am at the strip club.

His knees have been worked more than Joan Rivers’ face…

Like Steve McNair, they’re just shot…

Too much? Yeah, I guess it might be.

This would be my dream off season

November 10th, 2009
3:21 pm

Trade Derek Lowe, Nate McLouth and Schafer(if it takes him also) for Matt Kemp
Sign Matt Holliday
Sign Adam LaRoche
Sign Mark DeRosa
Sign Mike Gonzalez

Lineup

SS Yunel Escobar
2B Mark DeRosa
3B Chipper Jones
LF Matt Holliday
C Brian McCann
CF Matt Kemp
1B Adam LaRoche
RF Jason Heyward
P Pitcher

Rotation

Javier Vazquez
Jair Jurrjens
Tommy Hanson
Tim Hudson
Kenshin Kawakami/Kris Medlen

Helllooooo World Champions

18 Wheels of Love

November 10th, 2009
3:21 pm

Hillbilly,

You cant and wont get me to say a single bad thing about anythng the DBT’s do…I just like them and like pretty much everything they do.

Live album: Definite buy and I wouldn’t wait until Christmas. It’s top shelf stuff.

The Fine Print: Like I said I like all of their stuff and it’s hard for me to rate each one against each other – BUT having said that, there is a reason why this the songs werent on an album release. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still great stuff, but for whatever reason didn’t fit into the confines of whatever album was about to be released.

Murdering Oscar: I like it a lot and while it is Patterson it isn’t eh DBT’s. There are a few throw away songs but Heaving and Hanging and I Understand Now are worth the price of the album. It’s a little more up and down tempo wise but still worth getting.

reagan

November 10th, 2009
3:23 pm

18 wheels (11:28)….just like Acosta was doing……fly open towards first!

LOOGY

November 10th, 2009
3:24 pm

K guys. Piss on my Andruw scenario which is realistic and come up with your dream “Lowe and Kelly for cleanup hitter” that aren’t gonna happen. Or trading the ace pitcher for some aging slugger. Fact is we need someone who can hit 30 bombs and I don’t care if he hits .114. If the Braves don’t hit for power this year we’re gonna be in the exact same place we’ve been since 2006.

And don’t think I’m forgetting about the bullpen either. We’re gonna need people there as well. But with our great pitching, if we don’t depleat it by trading for offense and rather signing someone for cheap who could surprise some, seems logical to me. And he’s a right handed power hitting outfielder. Exactly what we need for cheap, and they aren’t exactly growing on trees these days.

Andyman

November 10th, 2009
3:25 pm

18 Wheels – I’m with you on the new Alice in Chains. I think it’s a damn good album, and it’s really grown on me. I dig the older AIC a lot, but have nothing but praise for the new album.

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
3:25 pm

Anyway, they reduced the meetings from four days to barely two this year and held them at a modest business hotel connected to airport terminals by tunnels

Yahoo had an article on this yesterday. What’s surprising is that the rooms at the St. Regis costs $295 a night, and rooms at the O’Hare Hilton are $245 a night. I think the city of Chicago is more expensive than Dana Point as well, from a cost of goods point of view. I lived there a couple of years ago, and never remember it being that expensive as a San Francisco, Chicago, or New York.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Baseball-GMs-not-meeting-in-the-lap-of-luxury-th;_ylt=AgQ35XSIEmp1j.6Cpq3_digRvLYF?urn=mlb,201137

Mitchell

November 10th, 2009
3:26 pm

So, fellow Braves bloggers, would now be the time to make my special stupendous, fantastic announcement… my super secret revelation that I promised to uh, reveal just one week prior to this date?

Who’s excited? Yeah, you are.

I have cancer.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
3:26 pm

I should make it clear, any possible extension for Vazquez hasn’t gotten past the casual discussion phase with Braves, so don’t get too excited about possibility yet. They haven’t even approached him or his agent. Only time will tell if they do.

Mitchell

November 10th, 2009
3:27 pm

Just kidding!

Isn’t that hilarious?

I moved to Dallas. Cool, huh?

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
3:28 pm

LOOGY,

If Andruw wants a minor league contract, then I wouldn’t mind having him as our main pinch hitting option, filling Greg Norton’s shoes. There’s no way he plays everyday in the outfield though, or is our main everyday RH (sorry RHR) outfield power bat.

lavell12

November 10th, 2009
3:28 pm

DOB

Any word yet on when Hudson will sign and make it official?

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
3:31 pm

Yeah great,Mitchell. Thanks. That’s some sense of humor you have.

Anyway … getting back to these meetings. Anyone hoping for expanded use of replay in the immediate future, you can probably forget about that. GMs barely even discussed it at their meeting today. And if they’re that lukewarm to it, well, then I’d suggest that Bud Selig (who’s clearly not big on the idea) isn’t about to feel compelled to strongly consider it.

And ultimately, it’s his call.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
3:32 pm

Iavell12: After the results of his MRI are examined by whoever insurance company has looking at them, I’d imagine. Maybe today or tomorrow, but I don’t know for sure.

Chris

November 10th, 2009
3:34 pm

yea, i’m sure the braves would like to offer vazquez an extension. but realistically, the only way we can the braves can acquire a big bat that they want is to trade vazquez. if they trade lowe, they will almost certainly have to pay a portion of hi contract, and kawakamia isnt likely to be traded, so of course vazuez will be the one to have to be traded

Josiah

November 10th, 2009
3:35 pm

Adrian Gonzalez. Now. Gonzalez is under contract for $10.25 million total through 2011. And hit more than 40 homers last year. Trade for him. Now.

lavell12

November 10th, 2009
3:38 pm

DOB

Have any teams expressed in interest in Lowe? Did you talk to Kenny Williams about Jermaine Dye at all? If so what does he think about him and what he may have left?

reagan

November 10th, 2009
3:40 pm

mitchell…..you need help or you’re just one incredibly stupid sob. ..Dave……why not toss this guy?

Hillbilly

November 10th, 2009
3:40 pm

Thanks 18 WOL,

I’ve heard a few of the Fine Print and Hood’s solo songs . I’ve got a bootleg 2 cd album “Live at Cooley’s House” that had an all accoustic session from the Dirty South era. It has Murdering Oscar, George Jones Talkin’ Cell Phone Blues, and Little Pony/Great Big Horse on it. Plus I heard them play Rebel, The Great Car Dealer War and George Jones live in Jackson, MS so I’ve heard quite a few of those songs before.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
3:41 pm

Braves made the Dave Wallace hiring official today. Here’s the release. As I said a while back, I think this is a strong hire for Braves, who probably are trying to assure they maximize the potential of some strong young pitching talent in the organization. There have been a couple of setbacks with young pitchers in the past couple of years (though Braves probably wouldn’t say that’s reason for this change).

Anyway, here’s the release the Braves sent out:

Atlanta Braves Name Dave Wallace Minor League Pitching Coordinator; Garey Ingram named hitting coach at Class-AA Mississippi

ATLANTA – Atlanta Braves Director of Player Development Kurt Kemp announced today that the Braves have hired two new staff members, as Dave Wallace has agreed to terms to become the Club’s Minor League Pitching Coordinator and Garey Ingram has been named the hitting coach at Mississippi (AA). Wallace, who was given a two-year contract through the 2011 season, replaces Kent Willis. Wallace’s primary responsibility will be to oversee the progress and development of the Braves’ minor league pitchers at all levels.

“With the hiring of Dave Wallace as our Pitching Coordinator, we feel that our minor league pitching program couldn’t be in better hands,” said Kemp. “Dave’s depth of experience, his knowledge, and his leadership give us great confidence that the pitchers in our system will have the greatest opportunity to grow, learn, and develop into the best pitcher’s they can be.”

Wallace began his professional career as a pitcher in the Philadelphia Phillies organization in 1970 and has worked as a major league and minor league coach and/or front office executive since 1981.

Wallace worked in the Los Angeles Dodgers organization from
1981-97 and again from 2001-03, when he served as the Dodgers’ Sr. Vice President/Baseball Operations, overseeing LA’s minor league operations and consulting with the General Manager on baseball operations. Wallace also served the Dodgers as a Special Assistant to the GM (Dec., 2000-April, 2001) and interim GM (April-Oct., 2001).

He has served as a major league pitching coach with the Dodgers (1995-97), New York Mets (1999-2000), Boston Red Sox (2003-06) and Houston Astros (2007). He joined the Seattle Mariners in October 2007 and spent two seasons (2008-09) as Special Assistant to the General Manager/Minor League Pitching Coordinator.

Ingram spent the 2009 season as the hitting coach for San Francisco’s Double-A Connecticut affiliate after spending the previous seven seasons (2002-08) as a minor league hitting coach in the Los Angeles Dodgers system. He was the hitting coach for two years at Class-A Great Lakes and also coached the Columbus/South Georgia Waves from 2003-06.

“We are very pleased to have Garey join our staff,” said Kemp.
“Hitting Coordinator Leon Roberts and I have been impressed with Garey and we feel he will do a great job teaching and coaching our Double-A hitters at Mississippi.”
Ingram retired from his 14-year professional playing career in 2002 and began his coaching career that same season with the Gulf Coast League Dodgers.

His playing career included parts of three major league seasons (1994-95, ‘97) with the Dodgers. He made history on May 19, 1994, when, as pinch-hitter, he became the 67th major league player to homer in his first plate appearance, doing so at Denver’s Mile High Stadium.

The former infielder/outfielder was drafted by the Dodgers out of Middle Georgia Junior College in 1989. He currently resides in Columbus, Ga.

Il Cattivo

November 10th, 2009
3:43 pm

Yes Sir President Bartlett. We’ll get right on it.

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
3:43 pm

Of course, Chris. Stupid us to think there’s any other way to get a hitter. You’re right, Vazquez is the only pitcher with any value. Nevermind they could throw in a decent prospect or two with Lowe for the other team to take on to his full contract. “kawakamia” isn’t likely to be traded because Atlanta held that press conference saying “The Japanese will shoot bombs at us if we trade their prized Japanese born “kawakamia”.

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
3:44 pm

I’m not sure if this was posted on the last blog, but Ken Rosenthal had a good article about trades this offseason occurring before FA signings begin.

He has a good reason as to why Kelly Johnson might actually be sought after by some teams.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10336880/GMs-look-to-economical-trades-before-free-agents

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
3:45 pm

Loogy-

Well why didn’t you say so!?

If you want someone that can hit like that but still hit HR, heck, we’ll just try and get ol’ Dave Kingman on the phone.

And if he’s not up for the challenge, I’m sure Rob Deer would be more than willing to lace em’ back up!

I will agree w/ you on one thing though. If we wanted anything significant for Kelly, we should’ve traded him a long time ago.

Lowe, we may still be able to get something for as the starters market is weak. We’ll just have to wait out Lackey’s signing(or so it seems).

Chris

November 10th, 2009
3:59 pm

tnbrain- go ahead and think that lowe, schafer, and another prospect is going to give you a big cleanup hitter while erasing lowe’s contract because it isnt.

Steve from OH

November 10th, 2009
4:00 pm

I like the Delgado idea for 1B. He should be ready to go for ST, no?

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
4:04 pm

Chris, I meant just ridding the team of Lowe’s entire contract, period. Not saying they’ll get a cleanup hitter for Lowe. If they can do that then they ought to have enough to sign LaRoche & a cheaper bat like Willingham. To me, that plenty enough offense to support the pitching.

Daslied

November 10th, 2009
4:05 pm

So, here’s my projected line for Andruw, based on LOOGY’s desire:

625 PA
.114 Average
69 hits – 30 HR, 28 1B, 9 2B, 2 3B (both aided by Frenchy taking a dive)
43 RBI
25 BB
6 HBP (gut region)
372 K
153 popups to the catcher
.158 OBP + .287 SLG = .445 OPS

So, for a .445 OPS and UZR of -98.5, does 3yrs/$66MM sound right?

LOOGY

November 10th, 2009
4:09 pm

wow sarcasm doesn’t go over well on the old blog. I think .250 25 doubles and 30 homers and 85 rbi are a realisitic projection for andruw. Highly doubt he’ll hit .114 folks. Hyperbole anyone?

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
4:11 pm

Also, after reading that Rosenthal thing and doing some research, I guess I dont understand the negative mentality of buying low on Garrett Atkins?

If you take his 2009 as it was and thats simply an abberation, the guy mashed, and simply destroyed LHP.

If you take his 4 full years from 05-08, he hit .301 w/ a .364 OBP, and .482 SLG (.846 OPS).

Take into account that he’d be playing in hitter friendly Citizens Bank, Landshark (if thats what theyre callin it now), and Nationals Park 9 times each and not in Dodger Stadium or PETCO or AT&T Park all year.

He averaged 22 HR and 105 RBI a year and played above average defense while walking fairly closely (avg 25 more K than walks) to the amount he struck out. He is also another doubles machine to add to the lineup hitting 146 in those 4 seasons.

I don’t think he’s done by any means, and he was even projected by some to be as good as his UCLA teammate Chase Utley.

He also hit .309 w/ 9 XBH(of 17H) in 55 AB at Turner in his career.

I still think he’d be a great investment at 1b and then we could spend high on Bay.

I think this would be a really REALLY good lineup!

McLouth
Prado
Jones
Bay
McCann
Escobar
Atkins
Diaz

Daslied

November 10th, 2009
4:12 pm

No, LOOGY – hyperbole is implicitly banned here. :)

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
4:14 pm

DOB -

If the owners don’t want it, it ain’t happening. And they don’t want it, or not enough do. It’s not even something that’s a hot topic of discussion these days.

Right. But I believe their position will change for reasons previously mentioned. It’s not important what their position is right now (unless we’re talking about changing it tomorrow. Which I’m not. By the way, the 5-year thing was probably an overstatement, but I realistically think the NL will use the DH rule within 15-20 years.), only where it’s going and what it will be.

Dude, that’s actually a reason why it wouldn’t fly in today’s climate. Owners want to cut expenses, not pay one-dimensional players oveinflated salaries to do nothing but hit.

They don’t have to pay anyone anything. Teams frequently go to the freely available talent scrap heap to fill positions or develop their own hitters. But the opportunity is there for teams to add an aging slugger, one that would increase ticket sales, merchandise sales, TV ratings, etc.. if the NL has the DH. Seeing the opportunity to profit, I think the position of the ownership group will eventually gravitate towards favoring it. Their position will be (under my theory): “Well, I don’t have to participate in this, I could just sign someone for league minimum, but the opportunity to profit off of having a DH is there for me if I want it”.

One final point. Baseball is becoming more and more protective of pitchers. It all started with pitch counts. Like I previously said, once a firm position is breached, the prevailing opinion nearly always gravitates away from it. Rarely today do you see a rookie throwing more than 110 pitches–something that previously happened as a matter of routine. The protection of a valuable commodity (pitchers, starting pitchers specifically) has grown a lot in the last 40 years.

This isn’t going to go away, it’s going to grow bigger. Teams are doing things like requesting their players don’t play in the WBC, being extremely cautious with injuries, etc.. Eventually, the owners aren’t going to want their Johan Santanas and Tim Lincecums and Tommy Hansons to hit or run the bases. When that happens, the NL will implement the DH rule.

I’m not necessarily advocating it, I just think that’s the way it is.

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
4:15 pm

Daslied-

I thought it was just ok til I got to the 2 triples aided by Frenchy dives and I laughed a little…

Then, I got to the UZR of -98.5….now that was AWESOME!

Not quite as funny as RHR’s 2:22, but great nonetheless.

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
4:16 pm

Daslied-

BTW, you forgot the franchise record breaking 78 DP’s he’d hit into. ;)

McFann Ô

November 10th, 2009
4:17 pm

Anyway, happy day–Up came out on DVD today! Boo-yah…gettin’ it on the ‘Pod as we <del?speak type.

monty

November 10th, 2009
4:18 pm

Moving Lowe’s contract for a couple of avg. prospects is like getting 2 for 1. (15 mil.) = a 9-10 mil.(at or just below allstar level) LF and a 5-6 mil. closer or set up guy. Or 1 great LF for the 15 mil. Trading Vazquez is a 1 for 1. A really good pitcher for a really good 1b or LF. I like moving Lowe’s contract more than trading Javy. Come on Wren find a creative way to get it done!

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
4:19 pm

LOOGY

What in the past two years (3, actually) of Andruw’s play makes you think he is capable of the numbers you are projecting.

He started off hot with the Rangers (if you can call it hot), then cooled off considerably.

If he couldn’t start in their outfield, what makes you think he is a suitable player for us. Heck, they are not offering him and invite back. And in that hitters park!

Gotta be a reason there LOOGY, and I think it is because he is an OLD 32 years old. Got too fat, and lost it.

Now, if you continue with your insistance he is an option, your credibility will be in the toilet, fore shure!

Chris

November 10th, 2009
4:21 pm

braves will go after a right handed bat that will most likely hit cleanup. having mccann hit cleanup hasnt worked very well, and laroche might not be back with the braves. i see laroche getting a 3 year deal, and the braves will obviously not attepmt to give him that kind of contract. trading for cuddyer, derek lee, or kornerko, might be what the braves want to do.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
4:22 pm

loogy.250 25 doubles and 30 homers and 85 rbi are a realisitic projection for andruw.

he hasnt had a season like that since 2006. why do you think thats realistic?

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
4:23 pm

P-town

I would be OK with buying low on Atkins, but it could backfire, if last year was not an aberration. And as I recall, he really hasn’t been well known for his D.

Don’t know anything about his work at first base though.

Who earlier mentioned making a play for Nomar as a bench player? I like that idea.

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
4:24 pm

I also wouldn’t mind Delgado or Atkins at 1B.

Atkins only has 105 career games at 1B, but with all the lefties in the lineup, I like the idea of the Braves filling both 1B and LF with righties. His lack of experience at 1B, coupled with his poor hitting last year, isn’t a good match, but I don’t think Garrett is as bad a hitter as he was last season either.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
4:25 pm

Chris

My guess would be that Cuddyer would be off limits in Twinkie Town, but the other two might be attainable. Personally, I like Cuddyer a lot, but either of the other two would work for a year or so until Freeman is ready (or not ready?).

Efrim

November 10th, 2009
4:26 pm

I wonder what the Jays want for Halladay. Not that the Braves should be interested, but Doc and Vazquez have similar situations in that they are both free agents after next season. Halladay has a no trade clause, Vazquez has one to all West teams. Halladay is making 15.75 million next year. Vazquez is making 11.5 million. Halladay is clearly the better pitcher, by a healthy margin in my opinion. So I wonder what will happen if Halladay is traded for less than what you’d think. What will that do to the market for Javy, if they plan on dealing him. All that said, I’d expect the Braves to make a decision on whether or not they will deal Javy before the Jays trade Halladay, so it may all be moot.

ncscoots

November 10th, 2009
4:27 pm

I guess scoots, Wayne, and the Steves have already deleted their fans of dob facebook group membership

Let’s not be catty, LOL. Just because I think Johnson can still be a pretty fair major league player does not mean I think he’s a Gold Glover, too. :-) The Notorious One didn’t say anything about Johnson’s defense with which even the kid’s fans would disagree.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
4:28 pm

A typo on the “Big O” — that’s from writing too many blogs, twitter comments, etc.

Oscar Robertson, of course.

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
4:30 pm

I think the disparity between al teams and nl teams is a good topic for discussion. Why is the difference so great if it’s only one extra hitter. I think the difference is so high not because of the DH, but the fact that AL teams have much more money than NL teams(Tampa and Oakland being the exception).

The allstar game is a horrible indicator just because players last 3-5 innings tops. Inter league is a better indicator, and the AL has been predominately dominant the last few years. I understand Kenny’s argument, I just don’t understand why it is so great in starting pitchers(late inning relievers normally don’t face the pitcher). It is only one hitter, why does a pitcher go from having a 4.67ERA to having a 2.85ERA just by changing league’s. If Derek Lowe had pitched in the AL he’d had a 6.00ERA.

Who wins the world series it’s also meaningless, because 1 series doesn’t necesarrily tell you what team is better. The Phillies won the season series against the Yankees in New York, but lost the WS. And last year the Phillies won the WS. Winning the WS the last few years has been evenly distributed over the last decade.

Not every AL team is great. The Athletics, Royals, Indians, Blue Jays and Orioles are awful. That’s 5 teams that would be breaks out of 14. In the NL its, San Diego, Pirates, Nationals, Reds, Diamondbacks, Mets and Houston. That’s 7 teams that would be breaks out of 16.

The Giants can’t be considered a break because of there tremendous pitching, but they’re offensively challenge. And the Mets, because they suffered through hell with injuries.

keylargo

November 10th, 2009
4:30 pm

Adrian Gonzalez. Now. Gonzalez is under contract for $10.25 million total through 2011. And hit more than 40 homers last year. Trade for him. Now. Josiah

Josiah

Do you think there might be someone on a Padre’s blog that would say something like – We need a cheap, All Star pitcher, who is under control for 6 years and can win 15 or more games a year for the 10 years. Well, Tommy Hanson can. Trade for him. NOW.

What advice would you give to that Padre fan on how to go about getting Hanson?

Mitchell

November 10th, 2009
4:31 pm

I was hoping when I got here that somebody might try to come up with a special geographically themed nickname for me but something tells me that’s not very likely to happen.

I’m still sticking to my boycott of the 2010 season. I lapsed a few times to express my unbridled rage at Mark Teixeira for totally screwing us over in one of the worst trades in the recent history of the Braves and then winning a World Series with New York.

Isn’t it great how guys like him and Sabathia and Burnett never do damn thing with their previous teams and then finally show up in the world series for the Yankees.

Does anybody even remember that CC Sabathia had a chance to pitch the Indians into the World Series just two years ago in a Game 5 against Josh Beckett and totally choked?

I mean, what the F?

F the Yankees.

Anyway, I think the future is promising in some respects for the Braves but I think with the top notch starting pitching we’re going to be pretty vulnerable in the late innings. I for one certainly don’t expect Bobby Cox to cut his nightly addiction to the bullpen anytime soon. Without Gonzo or Soriano, we’re screwed. Not that they were perfect every time but when they were on their game it was game over.

You know the bullpen is going to be pitching at least 140 games next year. Nothing changes with that man. And look at all the young talent we’ve had over the past four years who have crapped out on us. This team has horrible coaching. I definitely think TP needs to be gone if we see any more of the type of stuff that was pretty much commonplace for the first half last year, but as we all know, that won’t happen.

But if anybody needs to be under the microscope I feel it has to be Glenn Hubbard. That is a job in my opinion that is not being performed well. I don’t care about speed, we have to steal more. You don’t have to be the fastest guy on the planet to steal a base. It’s not on him if they don’t get there in the first place but the bases stealing and base running ability on the Braves is abysmal. It seems to me Davy Lopes knows how it’s done.

There just isn’t enough accountability on this team. The Braves do not show me that they have a commitment to win. They can say it but when I look at how they perform, they are a team that is satisfied with mediocrity. You can’t tell me we wouldn’t have made it to the playoffs in ‘09 with a different manager. Maybe not any manager but a lot of managers.

That was it for me. I have completely lost faith in Bobby Cox as the Braves manager. It has nothing to do with the five would series appearances or the six first place finishes we had in the 2000s, or the fact that we lost the last game every single one of those years but one. It was the 2009 season. It was taking Tommy Hanson out in Houston. It was treating our best player like some insubordinant teenager. It was continuing to bat Chipper Jones third even when he was our least productive players. Benching Matt Diaz (my boy) and Martin Prado in favor of Jeff Francoeur and Kelly Johnson. Keeping Jordan Schafer in center for two and a half months… or how about, making him an everday starter when he clearly wasn’t ready.

He’s a horrible judge of talent. He’s loyal to players who should be replaced in the line-up. He bats our homerun hitter 8th. He takes out his starters after six innings in blow-out games instead of allowing his bullpen to rest. He had one of the best if not the best pitching staffs in all of baseball and finished third.

I just can’t take it anymore. I wanted for so long for him to win another World Series but it took me ten years practically to realize that he is incapable of doing so.

We had a winow. You only get so many. We had 14 years, it was pretty good while it lasted but sometimes one good year can have as much of a lasting impact. You can’t tell me the Phillies getting a taste of the playoffs in ‘07 didn’t have a lot to do with them winning the whole thing the next year. For all we know that window may have just shut but they more or less made the most of it.

I even heard Jim Powell on 680 before I left saying how he felt we could still have been playing, that we were good enough to win the World Series if we had just made the playoffs. If not for Bobby Cox I think we could too but… all we’re ever going to be with him is underachievers and I just can’t spend my time, energy and emotion only to be disappointed again.

I originally predicted we’d finish 4th next year and win 84 games. I think now if we end up 4th we’d probably only win about 77 or 78. That’s still a hell of a lot more likely than finishing first and winning a World Series. Do you all really think if we win 97 games next year and have home field advantage we won’t just lose again in the first round the same way we did from ‘02 to ‘05.

Every team in the East is going to be better next year. We still didn’t exactly excorcise the Nats curse and we seem to enjoy laying down like dogs against the Marlins. The Mets can’t possibly get any worse. We can still beat them but they’re going to win a lot more games this time around.

We had a window and I for a while there I was tricked into believing we were serious contenders. I can’t do it anymore. All I can expect is for Bobby Cox to squander and abuse young talent and see them wash up prematurely.

It’s just more of the same.

Anyway, maybe I’ll come back in 2011 unless any member of the current coaching staff is chosen to replace BC.

I bet you all can’t wait. And hey, if they do end up win the World Series next year, I will be more than happy to be proven wrong. But it’s not going to happen anyway so who cares.

I’m going to get cancer now aren’t I? Great joke though, right? Not really but as Larry David would say, I took a risk.

Okay bye.

Daslied

November 10th, 2009
4:33 pm

P-Town – I forgot to mention the other parts of my retooling plan. Yuniesky Betancourt will replace Escobar (traded for Vernon Wells), and he’ll bat leadoff in front of Andruw. No way there’s a DP record broken there, unless our #8 hitter (Braun) starts getting wise ideas. The contingency plan is to have hitters try for a double on every hit. (They must heed the Ted’s newly installed viper pit on the right side of the infield, though.)

DAP

November 10th, 2009
4:35 pm

bobby’s coxwith all the lefties in the lineup, I like the idea of the Braves filling both 1B and LF with righties.

you know if you do that, you only have 2 lefthanded hitters, or three when were facing a righty. i think that over correcting something that isnt really a problem to begin with.

Efrim

November 10th, 2009
4:36 pm

Not every AL team is great. The Athletics, Royals, Indians, Blue Jays and Orioles are awful.

The Blue Jays would of faired much better in the NL Central than in the AL East. How much fun do you think it is for them to play a third of their schedule against the Rays, Red Sox and Yankees?

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
4:39 pm

Bobby’s Cox & Wayne -

I see it as an abberation because he’s still young, has no health problems to cause such a dropoff, and was a .300 hitter w/ 20+ HR pop, 35+ double gap power, and if you look at his stats, he has been a very clutch player and an RBI machine with runners in scoring position. (Think Chase Utley)

Oh, and he has made 8 errors in 773 TC at 1b. He is marked as a -1.7 in Rtot (like a fielding bible category) BUT he was listed at a +7.9 at 3b so I think if he played 1b all year, he’d make that up.

Like I said, well worth a chance if it can save money to get a Jason Bay. Also, the guy could take over for Chipper after 2010.

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
4:40 pm

Daslied-

That must be Lloyd Braun hitting 8th, because otherwise, why don’t you just have Gregor Blanco in there?

rtrafford

November 10th, 2009
4:43 pm

DOB-

I’d like to challenge your comment that KJ doesn’t have the makeup to be a quality bench player. First, his defense in my opinion is better than Infante, as is his base running. In the second half of 2009 he was essentially a bench-player, and in filling that role he posted some rather solid offensive numbers.

As long as he is “cheap” I see KJ as a solid piece of the puzzle. Try comparing his splits with Omar’s…

Josiah

November 10th, 2009
4:44 pm

keylargo

the difference is that adrian gonzalez is on the trading block. not hanson. so adrian is at least somewhat available.

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
4:45 pm

Tomas -

I just don’t understand why it is so great in starting pitchers(late inning relievers normally don’t face the pitcher).

For a number of reasons. One, having one weak hitter weakens the hitters around him as well. Two, NL managers frequently give away outs with their pitcher whereas AL line-ups with a DH do so much less frequently (which benefits the pitchers in the long run).

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
4:48 pm

scoots

Poetic justice: To get the big righthanded bat, the Braves include Prado on the deal, and KJ becomes the second baseman for 2010. Then he hits 270/360/500.

Chris

November 10th, 2009
4:51 pm

man, talk about drawing out this hudson announcement. feels like they want to delay the announcment for something. i know it doesnt matter because hudson will get the OK from the MRI, but geez…

Chris

November 10th, 2009
4:51 pm

i think i’m anxious to hear the contract numbers of hudson is all though…

Capt Morgan

November 10th, 2009
4:52 pm

and KJ becomes the second baseman for 2010. Then he hits 270/360/500.

That’s a good one…

Daslied

November 10th, 2009
4:54 pm

P-Town – Blanco is my new hitting coach.

njbraves

November 10th, 2009
4:56 pm

I really don’t understand the LaRoche obsession. Come on guys, he’s not that good. Is he a nice player, sure, but do they really need to commit big dollars to this guy?? Why not sign N.Johnson to an incentive laden deal and let him hold the fort down until Freeman is ready. I know he has injury risks, but if they could get him on the cheap, he’d be worth a shot. And please stop bringing up Billy Wagner. He’s a blown save waiting to happen, and will not come as cheaply as many of you think. If the Braves aren’t going to commit big dollars to Holliday or bay, then trading Javy is the route to take. Otherwise we will all be complaining about the lack of offense again next year.

rtrafford

November 10th, 2009
4:56 pm

and KJ becomes the second baseman for 2010. Then he hits 270/360/500.

That’s a good one…

yet in the second half of 2009 he went .261 .358 .493, albeit less than 100 PA.

Greg Olson Homers

November 10th, 2009
4:57 pm

Over on MLBTraderumors they posted a story where, in a blurb, “John Smoltz is open to starting or relieving next year. He figures to end up in the NL after his failed stint with the Red Sox.”

I’ll go there. Smotlz would be a great 8th inning guy. I think his numbers were spectacular in the first few innings of his starts….

rtrafford

November 10th, 2009
4:59 pm

i’d love to see smoltz in the braves pen for 2010, allowing him to retire with bobby cox…

Capt Morgan

November 10th, 2009
4:59 pm

rtafford:

What about his first half of 2009? How do those stats look?

Sorry bro, Kelly is done.

Efrim

November 10th, 2009
4:59 pm

yet in the second half of 2009 he went .261 .358 .493, albeit less than 100 PA.

Yeah, that sample size thing…..

But seriously, if the Braves end up trading Johnson or non tendering him, the team that gets him is getting an underrated player, imo.

[ducks for cover]

Eric In Albany N.Y.

November 10th, 2009
5:00 pm

D Lowe, for the newly Gold Gloved Adam “dont call me pac-man” Jones… (the O’s love to over pay guys like derek and think they are getting better)
Move Nate to right, and use the extra money to add another bat and re signing gonzo and trade for some pen help.

Oh and by the way im totally kidding about this.. love adam but not in this case

ncscoots

November 10th, 2009
5:01 pm

Wayne, re your 4:48…and blog heads explode, posters search for books on proper form for hara-kiri, Bobby’s Cox goes after Wren after a chance restaurant meeting, plus various and sundry other even-less-attractive events, LOL. Yes, that could make for an interesting offseason.

Random

November 10th, 2009
5:01 pm

Mitchell (November 10th, 2009 4:31 pm): “I for one certainly don’t expect Bobby Cox to cut his nightly addiction to the bullpen anytime soon. . . . You know the bullpen is going to be pitching at least 140 games next year. Nothing changes with that man.”

Well, seein’ as how Braves’ starters pitched only 3 complete games this season, that’s a prtetty safe bet.

And seein’ as how the Giants led the NL with 11 complete games this season, you could probably up the ante to “You know the bullpen is going to be pitching at least 150 games next year”, and apply it to the whole dam league.

Friggin genius, you are. :roll:

“I was hoping when I got here that somebody might try to come up with a special geographically themed nickname for me but something tells me that’s not very likely to happen.”

How ’bout Go Home, Mitchell — that’s close to geographic.

Capt Morgan

November 10th, 2009
5:01 pm

Meant to say Kelly is done… with the Braves. Wouldn’t surprise me if he resurrected his career once he got away from the Braves. Sort of like Francoeur did last year.

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:04 pm

I have thought very hard about how, the Braves can dump Lowe’s albatross salary, and here is what I think will make the most sense and fill both teams needs, well three,
how bout
Texas Rangers get
Milton Bradley
Brandon hicks
3 mil cash
Cubs get;
D.Lowe
Braves get
N.Cruz
C.Davis

How does that work?

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
5:04 pm

Wayne-

Please don’t make me cry.

A) I am hoping to be done with Kelly

B) Prado is one of my favs

C) The combination of your theory would lead me to want to pack my bags and come down to Atlanta, ring Frank Wren’s doorbell, and proceed to junk punch him in his man business…WHY…Yeah Frank, YOU KNOW WHY!

rtrafford

November 10th, 2009
5:04 pm

how can “Kelly be done” and post the second half numbers he did in 2009? he’s not “done”, simply inconsistent.

Why? I have no idea, other than perhaps he’s guilty of pressing too hard, trying to do too much. In the first half he spent a great deal of time in the lead-off for a struggling offense. in the second half he was able to relax and just play as nothing much was expected of him. Perhaps his career will be well suited by batting 7th for the Royals for a season.

He’s always had a great eye, a quick swing, and been very good on the base paths. He still has the makeup to be a plus offensive player at 2B. Bobby should have simply put him in the bottom third of the order and left him alone a long time ago.

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:06 pm

that fills your Lf, and !b needs and supplies power!!!!

Eric In Albany N.Y.

November 10th, 2009
5:06 pm

I DONT want Smotlz back even in the pen. He didnt pitch well this year but only because its hard to pitch with tears in your eyes! sick of the guy going out of his way knocking the Braves because he thought he deserved more money in his career.

If he thought he was really being ripped off in his career, why did he sign contract after contract? we dont need that kind of guy on our team anymore.

Lets all be real here. the only reason he wanted 5 mill last yr and still wants to try to get back out there in 2010 is cus his wife took him to the cleaners in the divorce!

MOVE ON JOHN! HOPE YOU GET THE MONEY YOURE LOOKING FOR!

rtrafford

November 10th, 2009
5:07 pm

by knocking smoltz for knocking the braves, aren’t you guilty of doing exactly what you’re complaining that smoltz did?

RC

November 10th, 2009
5:09 pm

Eavesdropper, I think Texas would want more than that. Also, who pays the $3 million? I like the idea of somehow tying ourselves into the Bradley trade though, since the Cubs are so desperate to pull it off at this point they’ll probably make concessions to both teams involved.

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
5:11 pm

Eavesdropper

I really don’t see the Rangers trading Chris Davis. I think they are going to keep Him and Justin Smoak, using one at first base and the the other at Designated hitter.

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:12 pm

For some unknown reason Texas salivates over Bradley, gives them the dh,to replace Cruz, and moves davis to clear a path for Smoak, the cubs, need a starter, see record without Burnett,I see Atla paying the three mill to get it done

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
5:13 pm

Eric in Albany -

Thank you! You simply stated just about everything that should be!

Like Glavine, Andruw, Furcal, and so on, I feel as though he badmouthed the club just like they did and it was all about the money.

I understand what you may “think” you are worth, but Boston proved without a doubt that you weren’t worth even remotely close to that kind of money.

Hope you all enjoyed messing up a good thing because your reputations as people are a bit tarnished in the eyes of long time Braves fans.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

November 10th, 2009
5:15 pm

all he did for about 6 months was tell people how crappy he was treated. WaHHHHHHaaa!
the guy started new with a new club the team went a different way and it turned out they made the right move. it took him playing poorly for him to shut his mouth and stop blaming the team for not paying a guy 5 mill for a guy who made a few starts and didnt get on the hill till most of the year was over.

the anger john had tword the braves was truly just anger he had for his ex wife.

Move on John maybe ESPN will pay you more money for child suport

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:15 pm

read somewhere the Rangers wanted Bradley,and wanted him really badly.. Davis had a sub-par year and they are not enamored with him. just a thought. fills a lot of needs..On all three clubs

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:16 pm

Eric In Albany, dude just SHUT UP!!!!

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
5:18 pm

Eavesdropper

Who is sending the 3 million to the Rangers?? President Obama?

P-town

You know I like you my friend, but I still believe that in the end, Kelly Johnson will have a better major league career than Martin Prado, when all is said and done. I could be wrong, heck I have already been wrong 2-3 times this year already!

:-)

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:19 pm

I was reading on mlbtraderumors.com,and came across the Texas/Cubs rumor and thought,hey why not Lowe is clearly better than McCarthy,hence what I came up with. aside from with,Lowe just looks like a Cubbie

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
5:20 pm

Eavesdropper

I like the way you thought outside the box. However Texas is still very high on Davis. They would be more than willing to trade Nelson Cruz, because they want Josh Hamilton to play right field to protect their body. The organization is split on who plays better defense at first: Davis or Smoak, but they want both in their lineup for a long time.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

November 10th, 2009
5:20 pm

Eavesdropper you really think john would be looking to pitch again if he didnt get divorced?

i mean come on. that and the guy has been nothing but disrespectful and ungreatful since he left.

im over the whole john smoltz thing till he comes back to coach or get his # retired, im just sick of the guy

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
5:22 pm

How did Jeter win a GG

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:23 pm

not a lot of glamorous options out there, My hope is Wren doesn’t get antsy and do a Lowe type deal again,patience is a hard thing to practice, alas but we shall see

Eric In Albany N.Y.

November 10th, 2009
5:23 pm

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace The same way davis wright got one over chipper a couple years ago. the guy plays in NY

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:24 pm

Wonder if the Angels woukd take Lowe, for K.Morales?

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
5:26 pm

I think that what most affects pitchers is the ballparks they pitched in. Cellular field isn’t exactly a pitchers dream, nor is Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Oriole park, Comerica park, Tropicana field, rogers center, Metrodome, Progressive field or Arlington park. That’s 9 of 14 parks.

In the NL the hitters ball parks are Citizens bank park, Miller park, Nationals park, Chase field, Great American ball park, Minute Maid, Coors field, PNC park, Wrigley and Busch Stadium. That’s 10 of 16 parks.

In the AL the pitchers ball park Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum. That’s it. 1out of 14

In the NL pitcher ball parks, Dodger Stadium, Citi field, Turner field, Pecto park, AT&T park, and Landshark stadium. That’s 6 out of 16

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:27 pm

Rangers GM Jon Daniels tells Jeff Wilson of the Dallas Morning News that he will look to improve his team by remaining active in trade talks. The Rangers are looking for relievers and a right-handed bat, but don’t expect them to go after top-tier free agents.

Instead, they expect to be involved in trade talks, though Daniels is in “no hurry” to trade away the pitching depth that kept his club in the pennant race late into this past season.

On another note, the Rangers, who will likely open next season with a payroll under $70MM, do have interest in bringing Milton Bradley back, but only if the Cubs take on a considerable portion of the $21MM remaining on the outfielder’s contract.

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
5:27 pm

As much as I want the Braves to spend the big bucks this winter, I understand that Liberty Media sucks and have no interest in wining a World Series.

The offense is already improved by replacing Francoeur and Johnson. I believe in Schafer and feel that his wrist caused almost all of his troubles, he was an automatic out last year

I know people keep saying he is only a rookie, but Heyward needs to produce for us to make the playoffs. Diaz also needs to improve against RH hitters.

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
5:27 pm

Ok, so how about this one Eaves:

Cubs get:
Lowe
Schafer

Rangers get:
Bradley
Miles
Delgado
Samardzjia

Braves get:
Cruz
Wilson

Only problem with this one is how the Rangers take on that money unless the Cubs pay a portion of Bradley’s salary, so thus the inclusion of Delgado from Atlanta AND Samardzjia from Chicago so the money would be well worth it for them to get those two pitchers.

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
5:28 pm

Eavesdropper

The Rangers have a surplus of starting pitching

Millwood
Holland
Feldman

have spots secured

Nippert, McCarthy, Harrison could generate interest.

They are not trading Chris Davis

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:29 pm

Hence my suggestion that Atlanta include some cash..

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
5:29 pm

How about Nick Johnson

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 10th, 2009
5:30 pm

Matt Young is having a really good winter league season. I would love to see him given a chance to win a bench job in ST. He can play of and 2B and can run really well.

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
5:31 pm

Wayne-

I’m just not seeing it my friend.

You know how they say some things are perceived by who you associate yourself with?

Well, baseball can be seen the same way.

In the offseason, Kelly associates himself with Francoeur and Boyer while Prado works out with Miguel Cabrera and Bobby Abreu…see a difference there?

I just think Prado is a true gamer and Kelly is one of those guys who looks great in theory or sitting next to your daughter at the dinner table, but just will never fully reach what he could be capable of.

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:31 pm

Rob, Davis has already been mentioned to Atl in a ludicrous deal heads up for Vazquez!! CrAzY!!

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:32 pm

Nick Johnson=hell NO!!

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
5:32 pm

Rob-

It’d be nice to have a guy like Matt Young that could be used for late inning defense and pinch running purposes, you know, just in case the situation arises, or if we have Bay and Diaz in the Of ;)

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:34 pm

How bout Lyle Overbay?

MitchC

November 10th, 2009
5:34 pm

Dave, as I told Mark Bradley in his blog earlier today, I will be very disappointed if the Braves trade Vazquez. Yes, we only have him for one more year, and yes, he might well have had a career season, and yes, we might get something good for him in return. However, with all of that having been said, the upside for Vazquez is that he is still young, and, if we keep him, and can sign him to a deal for two or three years, he can help us in 2010, and maybe down the road.

If I were FW, I would try to trade either KK, Lowe, or both. A Hudson, Hanson, JJ, and Vazquez rotation would be a fine rotation, abit all righthanded. Then, if both KK and Lowe do go, we can maybe either trade for a cheap fifth starter, preferably lefthanded, because we have an all right handed rotation, or, bring someone up from the minor leagues.

Trading Vazquez would be a big mistake, and I really hope FW doesnt do it. The AJC writers will have many unhappy fans posting on their blogs if FW does that.

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:35 pm

I’d rather see a Lowe for Todd Helton straight up deal than Nick Johnson

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
5:37 pm

Hmmm, wonder if Helton would sign that ntc to go to Atlanta?

P-Town Brave

November 10th, 2009
5:37 pm

Eaves-

We already had Lyle Overbay last season. His name then was Casey Kotchman.

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
5:38 pm

DAP,

When Heyward and Freeman are ready to join the club, that’s 2 more lefties in the lineup. That’s why I like the idea of finding 2 righties to fill LF and 1B. You could platoon a righty at 1B with Freeman initially as well. You can call it an over-correction, but I’m looking ahead to when the big bats are ready to join the big league club. Of course, you could also ease in Heyward with a Diaz/Heyward platoon as well.

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
5:41 pm

Dave, as I told Mark Bradley in his blog earlier today, I will be very disappointed if the Braves trade Vazquez. Yes, we only have him for one more year, and yes, he might well have had a career season, and yes, we might get something good for him in return.

Not necessarily. I’m sure Wren is looking into that and trying to get a feel for the situation. He’s already looked into a JV contract extension. I’m sure he’s feeling out Vazquez’s agent and the market for a Vazquez trade. If Wren doesn’t think he can sign Vazquez to an extension, then he’d probably like to use the leverage of his performance last season in a trade, & vice versa depending on the market for Lowe, etc…

Smack

November 10th, 2009
5:44 pm

Rob, the only problem with Matt Young is he is 5′6″ in cleats and runs too often. He has a 61% success rate in steals thus far in Mexico. I would almost guess he will be left unprotected and be plucked away from us in the Rule 5 draft. I do like him to don’t get me wrong, but after the dis of having to do the Southern League all over again this year, it is clear Atlanta is not his future destination.

monty

November 10th, 2009
5:46 pm

Chris

“i see laroche getting a 3 year deal, and the braves will obviously not attepmt to give him that kind of contract. trading for cuddyer, derek lee, or kornerko, might be what the braves want to do.”

Why would the Braves not sign LaRoche to a 3 year deal but they would Lee or Cudyer? I don’t know about Cudyer but Lee had a better year than LaRoche.Would Lee agree to a shorter contract than LaRoche? WHy? Lee will demand more money,years or both than LaRoche. The Braves wouldn’t sign LARoche to 3 years because of Freeman (supposedly) but not for a lack of talent on LaRoche’s part.

Chris

November 10th, 2009
5:49 pm

monty
I didnt say that the braves would offer lee or cuddyer a 3 year deal. i said, i would expect them to attempt to trade for one of them to play in 2010, and see where freeman is at the end of the season.

tr

November 10th, 2009
5:51 pm

Read a quote from Utley (wish I could remember where and provide a link) a week or so ago about pushing the Phillies to go after his old college teammate, Garrett Atkins.

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
5:51 pm

There was some good stuff on page 4.

As unlikely as any trade proposal here is likely to come true, particularly a 3-team trade proposal, the one Eavesdropper came up with (and his reasoning) really does work IMO. Kudos Eavesdropper. I’ve been thinking for a long time that Lowe looks like a Cub as well. He fits in that rotation, is a big city guy, and the Cubs would appear to have money to spend on him after the sale of their team. If Texas really does like Milton Bradley that much, and want to move Hamilton to RF, then it seems plausible…

Also, I could see Smotlz back here next year as well as a reliever/potential closer. I was thinking the same thing when I saw he filed for free agency a few days ago. We need relievers.

Smack

November 10th, 2009
5:53 pm

Bobby’s Cox, I think John burned to many bridges to come back home.

monty

November 10th, 2009
5:57 pm

CHris

My bad. Helps when you read correctly.

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
5:59 pm

Torri Hunter won another gold glove.Why? Carlos Gomez had less errors and a higher UZR and range factor.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
6:00 pm

P-town

I personally think the whole perception/association stuff is pure Barbra Streisand.

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
6:02 pm

Tomas

I believe the Golden Glove awards have become diluted in recent years with folks like Wright, McLouth, etc. Now Derek Jeter?

New York state of mind time!

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
6:04 pm

what most seem to forget is that even if vazquez doesnt extend, and keeps his era respectable this year less than 3.75, he will probably garner 2 of the top 50 draft picks for whoever loses him to free agency. picks 16 -50 usually produce some stars of their own 3 years down the road.

and brent a no one was better than wilton norman “wilt” chamberlain (august 21, 1936 – october 12, 1999), nicknamed wilt the stilt, the big dipper, and chairman of the boards

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
6:10 pm

Eavesdropper, so you think the Rockies are going to trade their franchise’s most popular player in order to take on most or all of Lowe’s contract?

Sure, why not.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
6:11 pm

pistol pete maravich was close to wilt but no cigar

N8

November 10th, 2009
6:12 pm

Any word on Glavine DOB? :-)

Eavesdropper

November 10th, 2009
6:13 pm

jk DOB, just kidding

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
6:13 pm

I’m not getting a sense that the Braves are very high on Nelson Cruz. Of course, at this time of the offseason there is so much posturing you never know how honest people are being and how much they might be hoping that something gets leaked and sends a signal that they’re not sold on this guy or not looking to trade that guy unless they get their doors blown off by an offer, etc.

But Cruz’s home/road splits are apparently a source of some caution (.931 home OPS/.778 road in 2009), especially given what that Arlington ballpark has done to inflate so many hitters’ numbers over the years….

Oh, and if they do or don’t trade Kawakami, I’m hearing it’ll have nothing to do with his being Japanese and the relationships they’ve developed in acquiring him, etc. If they don’t trade him, it’ll be because they think he’s a good value, pitched well in 2009 and can help them.

N8

November 10th, 2009
6:17 pm

“I believe the Golden Glove awards have become diluted in recent years.” Wayne

Wayne, the GG’s became a joke the second Rafael Viagra won a GG in 1999 when he was the DH in 128 of the 156 games he started that year.

That’s almost as ridiculous as two lip syncing dancers winning a Grammy.

N8

November 10th, 2009
6:18 pm

Lets try this again…..

“I believe the Golden Glove awards have become diluted in recent years.” Wayne

Wayne, the GG’s became a joke the second Rafael Viagra won a GG in 1999 when he was the DH in 128 of the 156 games he started that year.

That’s almost as ridiculous as two lip syncing dancers winning a Grammy.

N8

November 10th, 2009
6:21 pm

Lets try this again….. (try number three – gotta love this blog format)

“I believe the Golden Glove awards have become diluted in recent years.” Wayne

Wayne, the GG’s became a joke the second Rafael “I didn’t do steroids” won a GG in 1999 when he was the DH in 128 of the 156 games he started that year.

That’s almost as ridiculous as two lip syncing dancers winning a Grammy.

Jeff R

November 10th, 2009
6:22 pm

LOwe might be a fit with Cubs, as mentioned, and, perhaps, with the Cardinals, though they don’t have the budget leeway that Chicago has.

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
6:22 pm

No Jeter deserved it this year. 8 errors and a 6.6 UZR. Only players comparible are Erick Aybar, and Elvis Andrus both who made more than 11 errors.

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
6:28 pm

Can Derrosa play a good outfield?????

Roman Gal

November 10th, 2009
6:30 pm

I’m betting the NL has a DH within 5 years.

Oh, geez. I hope not. I like the games to last around 3 hours, not 4.

Chris

November 10th, 2009
6:33 pm

i really think the braves are looking for a 1st baseman to be that big right handed bat, and an outfielder that would be a lesser hitter to gap until heyward comes up to the bigs or if they trade diaz (which i dont think diaz would be traded)if that is the case, maybe, just maybe, the braves could trade kawakami or lowe, seeing for the fact that they would pick up a 1st basebamm with one year left untul free agency. and all the while, keeping vazquez or giving him an extension

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
6:34 pm

I’ll trust the Braves people if they aren’t crazy about Cruz. They should know more about him than any of us do by talking around, getting some inside stuff. Attitude, streaky hitter, whatever they’ve heard or seen. Or, maybe they’ve gotten a feel for what it might take to bring him to Atlanta & feel it’s way too much. Either way, I trust Wren & his people over myself or anybody here.

Chris

November 10th, 2009
6:34 pm

sorry for my spelling

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
6:36 pm

Chris, I think you might be right. They could just as easily be looking for a slugging 1st baseman as one in the OF. Doesn’t matter, as long as they can get a guy for the cleanup position.

Alvin

November 10th, 2009
6:36 pm

DOB- Where does all this (assuming ATL gets a power righthanded bat in the OF and JH is ready) leave Diaz? I think he proved himself last year as an everyday player but appears he could end up being the odd man out? Is that correct?

Also- check out http://www.myspace.com/jonathantylermusic
Think you will really like them!!

Wayne in Utah

November 10th, 2009
6:37 pm

Too much speculatin’ going on. Maybe we should just wait and see what Frank has up his sleeve.

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
6:37 pm

First off Lowe isn’t a good fit for anyone, perhaps it has to do with his horrible season. He doesn’t fit in an AL team because the AL is far too superior. And he doesn’t fit in a hitter ball park because he gives up a lot of homers.

Trade D.Lowe to LAD for Loney?????

wjones

November 10th, 2009
6:40 pm

“And he doesn’t fit in a hitter ball park because he gives up a lot of homers.”

Except for the fact that Lowe doesn’t give up many homers. Look it up.

RJB in DC

November 10th, 2009
6:43 pm

Daslied

Your 4:05 post on Andruw’s projected stats just caused me to spill mountain dew all over my good shirt.

Are you sure you just didn’t take Norton’s numbers and just add the 30 dingers?

wjones

November 10th, 2009
6:45 pm

49 pitchers in the NL gave up more homers than Lowe, many of whom pitched far fewer innings.

nolie

November 10th, 2009
6:46 pm

Can I get a definition of middle age? (RHR)

look in the mirror. OMG I can’t believe I said that. I’m in big trouble now.

Tennbravefan

November 10th, 2009
6:46 pm

Dont know if you all saw it, but Buster Olney just said on Sportscenter that “many GM’s feel the Braves will deal Vasquez to get that big bat they need…with Texas as a possible desination”.

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
6:47 pm

Sign Mark Derrosa to 2 yrs 16 million.
Sign Tim Hudson to 3yrs 27 million.
Trade D.Lowe for James Loney(giving dodgers some cash 5mill seems fair)
Sign Billy Wagner to 1yr 8 million.
Win WS….

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
6:48 pm

I wonder if the Tigers would be willing to work out a deal involving Lowe. Maybe Aubrey Huffand a good prospect. Personally, I hope we keep Lowe. But if the only way we can loosen up Liberty Media’s purse strings is by moving one of our starters, then I guess Wren has no choice. I’m betting the Tigers are going to be a little weary about dealing prospects, especially to the Braves.

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
6:50 pm

EDIT:
I wonder if the Tigers would be willing to work out a deal involving Lowe. Maybe Aubrey Huffand and a good prospect. Personally, I hope we keep Lowe. But if the only way we can loosen up Liberty Media’s purse strings is by moving one of our starters, then I guess Wren has no choice. I’m betting the Tigers are going to be a little weary about dealing prospects, especially to the Braves.

brian

November 10th, 2009
6:52 pm

DOB – do you think the Braves leaked their consideration of extending Vazquez to try and drive up his value? In other words, we do not have to trade him. In fact we would love to keep him, but if we get an offer that significantly helps our team we have the flexibility to move him

Tennbravefan

November 10th, 2009
6:54 pm

The Dodgers wont take Lowe back, I would trade them Vasquez but only for Kemp or Either. If the Braves dump a pitcher for salary it should be Lowe, if they trade Vasquez its got to be a great deal (Kemp, D. Lee) By the way NO NELSON CRUZ!!!!

Bill Bonner

November 10th, 2009
6:55 pm

I think if I were Frank Wren I would be in no hurry to trade a pitcher over the winter. Those who need starters are facing a thin FA market, and money’s getting scarce for most teams, so trades will be the preferred method. I’d sit back and let the offers come to me. If spring comes without a deal, hold steady. Someone will get desperate by opening day. Besides, one of our guys could get hurt.

I know we’d all like some instant gratification here, but patience will be rewarded.

njbraves

November 10th, 2009
6:56 pm

Why on Earth would the Dodgers trade for Lowe??? They could have signed him last year if they wanted to keep him. Now they’re going to trade Loney for him?? Sure they are. Some of you folks need to come back to earth with these trade ideas. No GM is going to take on $45 million for Lowe and give you good young players in return. Like it or not, the Braves best chance of acquiring a good player in a trade, is to trade Javy. D. Lowe will be a Brave next year.

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
6:57 pm

brian,
Signing Javy to an extension is going to cost some real money. I don’t know if the Braves are going to spend any more money on pitching this year. I’d love to see it happen, he’s a great pitcher. But I’d put my money on 100% of our remaining salary budget going to offense and the pen.

UNCBrave

November 10th, 2009
6:58 pm

Any word DOB on Hudson’s MRI?

OR If the BRAVES are not interested in OF Nelson Cruz, which OF’s are they interested in?

Thanks

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
6:58 pm

Would the dodgers consider bringing Lowe back.

ncscoots

November 10th, 2009
7:01 pm

In the offseason, Kelly associates himself with Francoeur and Boyer while Prado works out with Miguel Cabrera and Bobby Abreu…see a difference there?

You mean, that a Southern kid hangs out with other Southern guys, and a Latin kid hangs out with other Latin guys? And that gives you some “perception” about the players in question?

I mean, I never thought you were the brightest bulb in the lamp, but that thought is so dim as to warrant a new definition of cretin.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
7:03 pm

UNCBrave, no word on Hudson’s MRI. But not really surprising, since he didn’t get it until today and it has to be examined by the insurance company’s medical people.

TnBrian

November 10th, 2009
7:05 pm

Bill Bonner, I think everybody needs to read your post there because you’re spot on. I hope Wren is thinking that way because you know that GM’s will be sweating bullets come late December/January when they’re short on quality pitching. Then the Braves will have the huge upper hand. Unless they get an offer they can’t refuse, I say wait it out. I’d like to know right now what’s going on, but I don’t think that’s reality.

Geo123

November 10th, 2009
7:05 pm

Tomas,

Derosa can play a descent OF. He is however a far better 3B or 2B. I think the contract numbers you quote for him are fair but there’s no way you get Looney from the Dodgers for Lowe and eat only that amount of money. Lowe is overpaid by at least 5 million per year if not more. Which means you’d have to give them 15 to 20 million. He’s not a #1 or a #2 which is what you’re currently paying him to be and with the Dodgers current financial problems (the McCourt’s divorce) there is no way they take on the bloated contract, You would probably have to take on one of thei rbloated contracts like Pierre to have it even be considered….

Tomas

November 10th, 2009
6:28 pm
Can Derrosa play a good outfield?????

BravesfaninWis

November 10th, 2009
7:09 pm

So what options are the Braves actually exploring at the GM Meetings? That is the title of this blog, however nothing at all is suggested except a slim chance that the Braves may consider trying to extend Vazquez but haven’t yet said anything to Javy or his agent. So again, what options are they exploring?

So far all I have read are from the usual teams like Boston, Yankees, Mets, Angels, and Phillies who seem to have a interest in every single free agent regardless of age, position, or what side of the plate they hit from. The Braves can’t even get their obvious news out in a timely manner, that being the extension of Tim Hudson. Damn, this is a boring offseason.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
7:10 pm

I went back and added to/clarified my 6:13 comment about Cruz.

ccrider

November 10th, 2009
7:11 pm

I don’t know the direction the Braves will take, but if their going to trade some of our top prospects then I hope it’s for a difference maker like Adrian Gonzalez.
Nelson Cruz isn’t going to be a cleanup hitter, maybe a good 6th spot guy. Teams are not going to fear his bat due to low average, strikeouts, hitting with runners in scoring position and OBP.
I personally would rather, if they can’t trade Lowe, go for Carlos Delgado for 1B and Mike Cameron in CF with McLouth moving to left. If, Delgado gets back close to his old self and Cameron has an average year , it would add 45 hrs between the two and give us a good RH hitter against Lefties that plays very good defense.
It’s not the solution we want, but overall it’s an improvement that doesn’t require givng up top prospects.
In my dreams, I would trade for A. Gonzalez, Trade D. Lowe and sign Jason Bay.

McLouth
Prado
Chipper
A.Gonzalez
Bay
McCann
Escobar
Eventually Heyward( Diaz Until then.)

Vazquez
Jurrjens
Hanson
Hudson
KK

I can dream can’t I

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
7:12 pm

BravesfaninWis
November 10th, 2009
7:09 pm
“Damn, this is a boring offseason.”

The offseason hasn’t even been here a week yet!

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
7:15 pm

Boston, Yankees, Mets, Angels, and Phillies who seem to have a interest in every single free agent regardless of age, position, or what side of the plate they hit from. — BravesfaninWisc

You might also have heard that four of those teams have huge payrolls and are always involved in the highest-profile free-agent pursuits, the ones that often set the market and/or start the dominoes falling for the subsequent free agents. And the other of those teams has played in the past two World Series and has a couple of high-profile needs and/or free agents, and a front office that perhaps has a different philosophy than the Braves in discussing or strategically leaking names of players they might be targeting.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
7:15 pm

good dream cc, now dream in ted turner or arthur blank to buy them and maybe it would happen

McFann Ô

November 10th, 2009
7:16 pm

Roman Gal Oh, geez. I hope not. I like the games to last around 3 hours, not 4.

Same here. Do NOT like the DH. I think it’s lame…

nolie

November 10th, 2009
7:16 pm

f the Atlanta Journal-Constitution offers that the Braves are looking to deal Javier Vazquez, or offer him a contract extension. The Dodgers are mentioned as a trade partner. However, it is highly unlikely that he will end up [...] (Rumors)

given his contract only an absolute moron would mention the Dodgers as a trade partner. sigh

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
7:21 pm

Torri Hunter won another gold glove.Why? Carlos Gomez had less errors and a higher UZR and range factor. — Tomas

Tomas, do you know who votes for Gold Gloves? It’s the managers and coaches. Do you realize how many of them probably even know what range factor and especially UZR are, much less care about how to find them?

Many or most of them probably get the ballot, think about who’s the best fielder they’ve seen at each position during the season, perhaps ask someone who won it the previous year at a position where they’re having trouble coming up with a clear winner, then quickly fill out the ballot and hand it in.

ToastyFire

November 10th, 2009
7:24 pm

Re: Kelly

He had an injured wrist during the first half. We’ve seen around the league over and over how a injured wrist can kill a players ability to hot. And while the 2nd half might be a small sample size for some. Is that any much different than the 263 PA he had in the first half? Both are incredibly small sample sizes. Whoever gets Kelly next year (if he plays a full season) will get a guy who posts around a 790-810 OPS and okay defense at 2nd. Hopefully that’s what we’ll get out of Prado.

CB

November 10th, 2009
7:26 pm

You think maybe Mitchell really moved to Wisconsin?

nolie

November 10th, 2009
7:26 pm

s that a little too aggressive for you guys, do you think the back end of the rotation would be a little too weak. (NC)

I seriously doubt that they are gonna trade two starters

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
7:33 pm

ryota igarashi, a right-handed reliever with the tokyo yakult swallows of japan’s central league, filed for free agency on monday, making himself eligible to be signed by a major league team, the associated press reported.

igarashi, 30, shares the record for throwing the fastest pitch in the japanese major leagues, at 98.75 mph. he has spent his entire 11-year career with the swallows, amassing 630 strikeouts in 570 innings pitched. he has hired agent arn tellem, who also represents hideki matsui.

igarashi was 3-2 with a 3.19 era and three saves in 56 games in 2009. his best season was in 2004, when he recorded 37 saves.

a total of 87 players from japan’s professional leagues were eligible to file for free agency. in that country’s system, a player becomes eligible to sign overseas after nine seasons.

lisa winston is a reporter for mlb.com. this story was not subject to the approval of major league baseball or its clubs.

DabNabIt

November 10th, 2009
7:34 pm

Isn’t that hilarious?

I moved to Dallas. Cool, huh? MITCHEL

I liked the first one better

Rock On......

November 10th, 2009
7:36 pm

DOB…you mean like most Little League All Star teams are voted on? Wow, the Gold Glove Award just sank to a new level!

Rock On......

November 10th, 2009
7:38 pm

DabNabIt….personally I like Dadgum better……..just sayin

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
7:38 pm

ncgary,
Arn Tellem? Isn’t he Furcal’s agent? If so, you can bet Wren won’t be very interested… not that you said he was.

Jeff R

November 10th, 2009
7:40 pm

TnBrian… You raise an interesting point about Cruz’s attitude problems (or reported problems).

Cox and company tend to shy away from players who don’t fit easily into the team’s personality (bland corporate, in my opinion). Escobar has been an exception, though. As I recall, there was some grumbling about his attitude during the season. Again, as I remember, Cox wasn’t very happy with him at times.

I think Escobar worked with his temper a bit better as the season progressed. I think the latin coaches/players had something to do with that. Might hold true for Cruz too. Besides, a little fire on a club isn’t a bad thing , in my estimation.

ccrider

November 10th, 2009
7:40 pm

ncgary: I am focusing on your suggestion; UGH UGH; rats it still comes up Liberty Media. But I guess with our starting pitching a lineup of: McLouth, Prado, Chipper, Delgado, McCann, Escobar, Cameron and Diaz/Heyward is at least better than last years. No more Loaf, or Kotchman + a full season of Prado, McLouth and a partial season of Heyward is better than nothing.

lavell12

November 10th, 2009
7:49 pm

DOB

Do you know how Heyward is doing? I haven’t heard anyting recently.

DabNabIt

November 10th, 2009
7:54 pm

I would trade them Vasquez but only for Kemp or Either. (TennBR)

Vazquez has a no trade clause to AL & NL West teams. He ain’t going to LA

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
7:55 pm

Jordan Schafer is ahead of schedule with his recovery from wrist surgery, Wren told me today. Said he should be ready for start of spring training, but that they would just wait to see how he does in spring training and not put any expectations or pressure on him going in.

Sounds like he’ll likely start out the season in the minors.

Rock On......

November 10th, 2009
7:56 pm

DOB…thank you very much (at 6:13) for putting to rest the Japanese-thing about KK. Nobody cares if he is Japanese, Korean, Ethiopian or whatever. Can you pitch and pitch well? If he is traded I and many others could give a rip about his nationality or if it will chap any future players from that country. What will it bring us in return and are we a better team after the trade. It is amazing to me that anyone on this blog would have thought about nationality when trading a player or not trading a player. It is comforting to see we were still able to attract African-American players post-Aaron or that we have Dominican players post-Furcal.

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
7:56 pm

lavell12,
Heyward isn’t playing. He’s got a back/butt thing going on.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
7:57 pm

Oh, and apparently McLouth noticed as he was driving back to Michigan after the final game of the season that he wasn’t seeing the green highway signs as clearly as he used to. So when he got home, he made an appointment with a Univ. of Michigan doctor and got his eyes checked. Needed contacts. Braves are glad he did it early in offseason, since it’ll give him a few months to get used to them.

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
8:00 pm

That’s some good insider news about McLouth’s vision. Let’s hope it makes a difference.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
8:00 pm

Rock On: Pretty much, yes.

But how did it “just sink to a new level” when that’s also the way it’s been voted on since 1965? (A panel of sportswriters chose them in the first seven years of the awards). Remember when Palmeiro won a 1B Gold Glove even though he DH’d almost the entire season? That’s when some people started asking who did voting for Gold Gloves, assuming (incorrectly) that it was us writers who made that dubious choice.

nolie

November 10th, 2009
8:00 pm

Cool. I hope it helps Nate hit a bit better

Rock On......

November 10th, 2009
8:04 pm

sidslid…..back/butt thing?…Joe Tex’s song – Ain’t Gonna Bump No more With No Big Fat Woman- just popped into my head. Can’t stop laughing. Hilarious. Time for a beer. Stop it…stop it!

AdirondackDave

November 10th, 2009
8:04 pm

lavell12 — Heyward is done for the season. He had a posterior muscle problem of some sort so they shut him down in Arizona.

Long time Braves fan

November 10th, 2009
8:04 pm

Great news about McLouth and Schafer. And with Heyward coming on and Diaz returning, the Braves will soon have a very good outfield even if they don’t go after a high priced outfielder. I hope they find someone on a one year contract while Heyward and Schafer refine themselves at AAA.

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
8:06 pm

That’s some good insider news about McLouth’s vision. Let’s hope it makes a difference.

Great news, actually. I was about ready to give up on him, too. Now I’m actually looking forward to seeing what he can do. I hope he adjusts and it helps. What a great boost that’d be.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
8:08 pm

what about cubs get lowe, tampa bay gets k johnson and bradley, bravos get bj upton and ben zobrrist, then prado moves to 1b. we get 2 young right handed bats with speed and power, maybe throw something else in to get percival if hes healthy again

lavell12

November 10th, 2009
8:09 pm

DOB

Talking to Wren did you get a sense that he thought that Jordan’s injury was why he struggled or did he believe that Jordan wasn’t ready?

Rock On......

November 10th, 2009
8:09 pm

DOB…new level for me anyway. I held it(Gold Glove)in somewhat higher esteem. Ah, awards. They must be on steroids too.

Oh, and again for the record, I hope KK stays. Random will like that. Sure hate to see this blog if KK is traded.

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
8:10 pm

Rock On……
I may join you on the beer adventure. Why not? I don’t have to be at work for another 11 hours.

lavell12

November 10th, 2009
8:10 pm

AdirondackDave- I know that about Heyward I want to know if he isn’t going to play in the winter league and how he is doing now with that injury.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
8:12 pm

actually zobrist is a switch hitter, natural right handed

Couch Tater

November 10th, 2009
8:12 pm

DOB,

Marvin Miller. HOF?

AdirondackDave

November 10th, 2009
8:13 pm

Heyward, Schafer, and Freeman should provide plenty of punch and strong defense at Gwinnett if that’s where they start the season.

Ted

November 10th, 2009
8:14 pm

DOB–Unfortunately, I must agree with your earlier post about the new AIC album…it mostly made me want to listen to “Dirt”. I don’t think it was a very good representation of what William Duval (the new singer) brings to the table. His other band, Comes With the Fall is REALLY good.

Rock On......

November 10th, 2009
8:19 pm

Sidslid….yep, beer time, but only thing in the fridge is Coors Light and Miller Light. My daughter’s fiance’s leftovers. Normally a Yuengling guy myself or microbrew. I feel I am in a Family Guy episode.

Lew

November 10th, 2009
8:19 pm

That definitely puts a new spin on his less than spectacular season.

N8

November 10th, 2009
8:19 pm

“I believe the Golden Glove awards have become diluted in recent years.” Wayne

Wayne, the GG’s became a joke the second Rafael “I didn’t do steroids” won a GG in 1999 when he was the DH in 128 of the 156 games he started that year.

That’s almost as ridiculous as two lip syncing dancers winning a Grammy.

N8

November 10th, 2009
8:20 pm

“I believe the Golden Glove awards have become diluted in recent years.” Wayne

Wayne, the GG’s became a joke the second Rafael “I didn’t do steroids” won a GG in 1999 when he was the DH in 128 of the 156 games he started that year.

That’s as ridiculous as two lip syncing dancers winning a Grammy.

nolie

November 10th, 2009
8:25 pm

guys a 260/355 hitter most of his career. probably isn’t gonna change all that much but we can hope the glasses will help I ♥ the Braves. :)

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
8:28 pm

Rock On……
MIler Lite for me too. Wasn’t planing on drinking tonight. I’m a 420 fan. Yuengling is some good stuff too. My wife and I found some good micro brews in Dahlonega this weekend. Strangely enough the brewery is in a crappy Italian restaurant called Caruso’s in downtown Dahlonega. If your ever up there it’s worth trying. Not the best stuff on earth but still worth trying.

Pickens

November 10th, 2009
8:39 pm

DOB-Your thoughts on the Braves playing things very close to the chest and not repeating what happened to them last winter?
FYI Everyone needs to understand Nelson Cruz is 29. SOME people are thinking he’s in his mid 20’s maybe younger. This is his first big time season so possible sophomore slump, even though his numbers are appealing.

AdirondackDave

November 10th, 2009
8:43 pm

Lavell12 — Maybe DOB will answer that, but I’d be surprised if he plays another inning anywhere until spring training. He has very little to prove but maybe they’ll give him a little more “seasoning” at Gwinnett to delay the clock start.

BravoMan

November 10th, 2009
8:44 pm

I look back last year at this time when there was the Peavy saga, the Burnett decline, the Furcal foul move, and the last minute change of decision by the Kid. I think of these occurrences and I’m thinking this organization will move swiftly and silently this time around…

Jeff R

November 10th, 2009
8:50 pm

Rock On…… I second your comments about Kawakami.

N8

November 10th, 2009
8:51 pm

“Remember when Palmeiro won a 1B Gold Glove even though he DH’d almost the entire season?” DOB

That was crazy. The next thing you know a couple of dancers that lip sync are gonna take home some Grammys. And I’m not talking about the Golden Girls.

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
8:51 pm

BravoMan,
I’m glad none of those moves we’re made. And I agree, I doubt there will be much talking coming from the ATL Brass.

Bobby's Cox

November 10th, 2009
8:51 pm

I’ll trust the Braves people if they aren’t crazy about Cruz. They should know more about him than any of us do by talking around, getting some inside stuff.

Ya, just like last year when we didn’t trade Johnson for Ludwick, because we had questions about Ludwick’s durability and thought so highly of Johnson. Hmmm….

The question was raised, if not Cruz, then who? I look around the league and don’t find many better young and affordable right-handed power hitters. DOB’s stance on Cruz shifted though for some reason. He posted Cruz’s splits on his first blog after the season concluded, and noted that while his home/away OPS disparity was quite large, Cruz did hit quite a bit HR on the road compared to other big name players around baseball.

With Cruz’s speed, arm, power, and ability to hit the ball to all fields, I’d still take him over any other player that may be available, unless it’s gonna cost Wren and the Braves an arm and a leg. If that is the reason why he’s not high on Cruz, then so be it. But if for any other reason, then it’s simply just a difference in opinion.

18 Wheels of Love

November 10th, 2009
8:53 pm

The new AIC album is clearly Jerry Cantrell’s baby. Duvall gets a few shots of his own but it is and has always been Jerry’s band…even when it ‘was’ Layne’s band…Jerry was and is the mastermind.

And Duvall doesn’t sound like Staley in my opinion. I think people are just hearing Cantrell and not realizing how much singing he did on the earlier stuff.

But I really like the album. Duvall’s songs arent my favorites, I like Cantrell’s stuff. Your Decision, Take Her Out, Black Gives Way to Blue, are very much in the same vein (bad pun) as Jar of Flies…but of course it is missing the Staley growl. I get that but I think it clearly stands on its own.

Anyone know when Beck releases a new one? Or when the Beasties new hot sauce record comes out?

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
8:57 pm

This is the worst article I’ve ever read, not even a hyperbole. Clearly written by an amateur who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

MZ

November 10th, 2009
8:58 pm

DOB —–
Just picked up Them Crooked Vultures … solid, heavy stuff … oh yeah, and get this – while I was at the record store, I noticed a sign that wasn’t there on Friday saying Lucero was coming to a local joint tomorrow night … apparently Ida forced them to move their show from Mobile, Ala., to Hattiesburg … guess who has to work and can’t go (nevermind that it’s literally within walking distance of my office)

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
9:02 pm

alot of talk about nba now lew alcinder aka kareem abdul jabar, has cancer.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
9:05 pm

Jeff R

November 10th, 2009
9:17 pm

I don’t think Cruz is worth Vazquez, straight up. Think the Rangers would have to sweeten the deal.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
9:20 pm

the number 89,457

anyone care to guess the significance of this number

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
9:20 pm

MZ, is the new Them Crooked Vultures album out? I’ve been wanting to pick that one up. Good to see Braves fans with good taste in music. I like Lucero a lot. Their last album wasn’t too spectacular though. I’m really into The Bottle Rockets right now… it’s some good Alt-Country.

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
9:22 pm

ncgary
November 10th, 2009
9:20 pm

“the number 89,457

anyone care to guess the significance of this number”

Is it the attendance of the last Nationals vs Marlins game.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
9:24 pm

as of Nov. 9, that’s how many american casualties there were in iraq and afghanistan since oct. 7, 2001

veterans day

alot of lives lost for a lost cause

alright call me names but i actually served did you

Crazy Trade Idea

November 10th, 2009
9:25 pm

Vazquez, Freeman, Medlen, and Teheran to the Cardinals for Pujols

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
9:29 pm

that includes a tire-screeching 75,134 dead, wounded-in-action, and medically evacuated due to illness, disease, or injury in Operation iraqi freedom (oif), and 14,323 and counting in afghanistan, or operation enduring freedom (oef).

MZ

November 10th, 2009
9:29 pm

sidslidkid —–
It “officially” streets next week, but I got it a little bit early from a place … bottle rockets, huh? I’ll have to check them out … if you haven’t ever heard American Aquarium, do give them a listen … good, indie alt-country there

brian

November 10th, 2009
9:30 pm

Bobby’s Cox – good question in if not Cruz then who. Not many fit the bill as to what the BRaves are looking for. Jeff R – you are correct that the Rangers would have to sweeten the deal. They will probably offer us Chris Davis. FW should ask for Justin Smoak (after all Texas was not afraid to ask for our farm system for a 1 year rental)

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
9:31 pm

ncgary,
Didn’t mean to offend you. Just making a baseball joke. I sincerely thank you and everyone else who has served.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
9:33 pm

no offense

its just a shame so many lives are lost and families devastated by their losses for politicians lies and greed

sidslidkid

November 10th, 2009
9:38 pm

MZ,
American Aquarium is a damn fine band. I first heard them on an AMAZING juke box in a crappy bar in Nashville. That jukebox was the best f’ing thing I’ve ever seen.

Crazy Trades McKnee

November 10th, 2009
9:39 pm

Vazquez, Freeman, Medlen, and Teheran to the Cardinals for Pujols

I like where your head’s at.

AdirondackDave

November 10th, 2009
9:39 pm

NCGary — Thank you. And thank you for reminding us.

lpad

November 10th, 2009
9:39 pm

I’m new here, but can someone explain to me why we are willing to let Soriano go and keep Gonzalez? Even though, Gonzalez lost the closer job to Soriano? Wouldn’t we be better off signing Soriano to an 8m/yr deal than signing Gonzo for 6/yr and then spending money on a closer?

cadagan

November 10th, 2009
9:48 pm

DOB, Isn’t it a little erroneous to say the braves are looking for a RH power bat? Even if everyone might be repeating FW. Shouldn’t we be looking for players who hit lefties?

It’s assumed RH’s hit lefties well, especially since we are braves fans and so accustomed to platoon advantages. But it’s just not always the case. Especially in regard to several of the players that’s most often mentioned as RH power OF options. It’s overlooked, and assumed.
If i said that N.Cruz, Derosa, Uggla, and Holliday have each hit worse against LH pitching in their careers (in some cases MUCH worse), probably some wouldnt believe, but some would say it still wouldn’t matter.
So wanting a RH is partially a perception thing still ?

Jay212033

November 10th, 2009
9:49 pm

I really like the idea of signing Carlos Delgado to a 1 yr contract if he’s healthy. I’d also trade KJ and Acosta for Coner Jackson to be his back up and part-time OF/3B.

This would be my dream off season

November 10th, 2009
9:53 pm

Trade Javier Vazquez and Jordan Schafer/Freddie Freeman for Matt Kemp.
Sign Matt Holliday
Sign Adam LaRoche
Sign Mark DeRosa
Sign Mike Gonzalez

Lineup

RF Nate McLouth
SS Yunel Escobar
3B Chipper Jones
LF Matt Holliday
C Brian McCann
CF Matt Kemp
1B Adam LaRoche
2B Mark DeRosa
P Pitcher

Pitching

Jair Jurrjens
Derrek Lowe
Tommy Hanson
Tim Hudson
Kris Medlen/Kenshin Kawakami

Before the trade deadline, when you get ready to bring Heyward up, trade Nate McLouth for prospects and someone to replace Chipper later down the road.

MZ

November 10th, 2009
9:55 pm

sidslidkid —
dude, see them live … it’s way better than any record they’ve put out … and I really like their records, so …

varoadrunner

November 10th, 2009
9:58 pm

Just trade Lowe for prospects and dump his $15M yr. You can buy a lot with an extra $15M.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
9:58 pm

W. Sox GM Kenny Williams made another comment on Tuesday, about how he’s not going to sign a Type-A free agent and give up his first-round draft pick unless it’s a real impact guy, not a complimentary-type player.

I asked Frank Wren about that today, about whether he feels the same way:

“I think that’s becoming more and more the feeling, that you’re weighing the value of those draft picks – sometimes maybe overvaluing them,” Wren said. “I think the pendulum might have swung too far. You talk to general managers, I think the pendulum might have swung a little too far on the value of young players.

“But that’s a good thing, in that we’re valuing player development and scouting, which at the end of the day, I think, we’ll create deeper and stronger clubs.”

Then I asked him if the economics today, with stagnant payrolls and all, make it even more critical for teams to hold onto prospects such as Heyward or Freeman if you believe they’re going to be every-day players who are both productive and very affordable for multiple seasons:

“I think that’s always been the case, that hasn’t changed in recent times,” he said. “The guys you think are long-term fits on your club, that you think are going to be every-day, long-term solutions to a certain area of your team, you’ve always tried to hold on to those guys, except in a very exceptional deal.

“I don’t think that’s really changed. I think what’s happened is now people don’t even consider those kinds of players, and the next tier [of prospects is also] being held onto even longer than before.

“Like I said, the pendulum’s probably swung a little too far now; it makes it more difficult to make deals.”

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
10:01 pm

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
10:03 pm

Money quotes from Wren, there.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
10:03 pm

DOB’s stance on Cruz shifted though for some reason. He posted Cruz’s splits on his first blog after the season concluded, and noted that while his home/away OPS disparity was quite large, Cruz did hit quite a bit HR on the road compared to other big name players around baseball.– Bobby’s Cox

Wrong. My stance on him hasn’t changed whatsoever. I’m telling you what Braves seem to think of him, not what I think of him. Because BC, what I or you or anyone else (except Braves’ officials) think of him isn’t going to really matter when it comes to trading for a guy.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
10:05 pm

sidslidkid: Good call on Bottle Rockets. Very good band, and I hear their new one’s excellent. I don’t have that one yet, have a couple of their other CDs.

McFanny

November 10th, 2009
10:06 pm

Trade Bmac to the twins for Mauer. :twisted:

TennesseePaul

November 10th, 2009
10:08 pm

Like I said, the pendulum’s probably swung a little too far now; it makes it more difficult to make deals

Wren’s “feelers” have gone out to all the opposing GMs with Javier Vazquez and have been answered with middling crap and Nelson Cruz’s (career year home park heros destined to flop in Atlanta). But if it’s me and I have a choice of trading Vazquez for little in return or keeping him, I’d keep him. If anything you can trade him at the deadline, resign him, or take the draft picks next season. Same goes for any other pitcher being “offered.”

But I think once Lackey has been signed the trade value of Vazquez goes up…

Efrim

November 10th, 2009
10:11 pm

I totally agree that the pendulum has swung too far, and it was good to see the Cards go for it this past season and include Brett Wallace in a deal for 2 1/2 months of Matt Holliday(of course, I know Wallace was basically blocked by Pujols, but still). But there is a pretty good reason that prospects, especially elite prospects, are coveted.

I hope Wren doesn’t make the mistake of signing Billy Wagner and giving up his first round draft pick. For a Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, or John Lackey, sure. Long term investment that’s worth the pick. A 38 year old relief pitcher doesn’t fall into that category, imo.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
10:13 pm

wren shouldnt jump on any trades unless right handed power comes from unloading lowe. patience is a virtue

Salamander

November 10th, 2009
10:17 pm

Baroness’ Blue Record is a great album and worth picking up (southern rock/metal).

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
10:17 pm

Efrim,
I agree about giving up the #19 overall for Wagner. If the Braves have already signed an impact player like a Bay or Holliday, I wouldn’t be opposed to giving up a 2nd rounder for Wagner. Especially if the Braves get 3 picks back for Gonzo/LaRoche.

Efrim

November 10th, 2009
10:21 pm

DOB, do you think the compensation system needs to change? It’s gotta be something that they will discuss when the CBA is up in 2011, right? I just think that the elias rankings system, and draft pick comp. system is kind of outdated. I mean, who really wants to give up a first round draft pick for a middle reliever? I guess there may be some teams, but relief pitchers and one dimensional offensive players are getting less and less valued as time goes by. Although I think that shows that front offices around the game are just getting smarter overall.

Efrim

November 10th, 2009
10:24 pm

I wouldn’t be opposed to giving up a 2nd rounder for Wagner. Especially if the Braves get 3 picks back for Gonzo/LaRoche.

Yup. That’s why if you’re the Mets, you’d just be foolish not to take advantage of it this year. Plus, Holliday is worth that type of investment, imo. Not a Teixiera type of investment, like Boras may intially want, but a large contract nonetheless.

Salty Dawg

November 10th, 2009
10:29 pm

Anybody watching SOA? Is it just me, or is there a f’in commercial break every 5 minutes? WTF?

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
10:32 pm

DOB, do you think the compensation system needs to change?

It makes NO SENSE. If it were conceived starting from scratch today, there’s absolutely no chance they would come up with what they’ve got.

David O'Brien

November 10th, 2009
10:33 pm

Salty Dawg: That’s what DVR is for — so great shows like that don’t have to interrupted by weak-arse commercials that completely interrupt the flow and remind you you’re watching TV.

(my hotel doesn’t have FX, and I’m actually kind of glad — because I’d be watching SOA for sure, and this way I can instead watch it on DVR after I get home.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
10:35 pm

wouldnt you know right about the time my land is about to be commercialized the commercial market is predicted to be the next bubble.arrgg

ive been slaving like a dog not to lose it the last 4 years cause when the road widens my land commercializes. well the road was supposed to be finished 3 years ago.

will my luck never change

richbrave

November 10th, 2009
10:36 pm

Wrong. My stance on him hasn’t changed whatsoever. I’m telling you what Braves seem to think of him, not what I think of him. Because BC, what I or you or anyone else (except Braves’ officials) think of him isn’t going to really matter when it comes to trading for a guy. DOB

And ain’t that the truth!!!!

nolie

November 10th, 2009
10:39 pm

trade Javier Vazquez and Jordan Schafer/Freddie Freeman for Matt Kemp (Dream)

Vazquez can’t be traded to lA without his consent, so your dream is just a lump of coal, sorry. :(
try coming up with something that is actually possible why doncha?

richbrave

November 10th, 2009
10:40 pm

Salty Dawg: That’s what DVR is for — so great shows like that don’t have to interrupted by weak-arse commercials that completely interrupt the flow and remind you you’re watching TV.

Too bad that can’t be applied on the field in the NFL as well.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
10:42 pm

“an error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. truth stands, even if there be no public support. it is self sustained.” – mohandas gandhi,

nolie

November 10th, 2009
10:42 pm

Like I said, the pendulum’s probably swung a little too far now (DOB)

yeah I agree, for a coupla years or so now. getting over run with prospect-huggers :)

nolie

November 10th, 2009
10:47 pm

DOB, do you think the compensation system needs to change? (Efrim)

a better question is if DOB is hearing much in the way of potential change from clubs and GMs?

Random

November 10th, 2009
10:52 pm

Rock On (November 10th, 2009 7:56 pm): “DOB…thank you very much (at 6:13) for putting to rest the Japanese-thing about KK. Nobody cares if he is Japanese, Korean, Ethiopian or whatever. Can you pitch and pitch well? If he is traded I and many others could give a rip about his nationality or if it will chap any future players from that country. What will it bring us in return and are we a better team after the trade. It is amazing to me that anyone on this blog would have thought about nationality when trading a player or not trading a player.”

Huh.

Would that be the same DOB comment that included the following?

DOB (November 10th, 2009 6:13 pm): “Of course, at this time of the offseason there is so much posturing you never know how honest people are being”

Yes — yes, it was.

“Nobody cares if he is Japanese, Korean, Ethiopian or whatever.”
Japan does – tens and tens of millions of people there do.
“If he is traded I and many others could give a rip about his nationality or if it will chap any future players from that country.”
I’m pretty sure that no one here has ever thought that you did “give a rip” that he was Japanese — why should you? But what does that have to do with Wren’s decision making process?

PS: you appear to be quite easily amazed.

PPS: Kawakami will not be traded.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
10:52 pm

breaking: large hadron collider shut down by precision bird strike

The lhc is recovering from a serious overheating problem, caused by a piece of stale bread dropped by a bird onto an apparently unprotected thermal vent. impossible, you say?

has anyone seen this monstrosity built under france and switzerland? it will never work. the universe says so.lol

DAP

November 10th, 2009
10:54 pm

bobbys coxWhen Heyward and Freeman are ready to join the club, that’s 2 more lefties in the lineup.

I get ya. That’s probably a good reason to get a righty for the outfield at least.

p-town braveWe already had Lyle Overbay last season. His name then was Casey Kotchman.

Dude, please check some stats. That comparison is not even close to being even. Overbay is a much better hitter than casey kotchman.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
10:56 pm

mclouth’s contacts may not help him hit for a higher average, but maybe it will help him hit the ball harder. his power was down quite a bit the last part of this year.

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
11:00 pm

what about cubs get lowe, tampa bay gets k johnson and bradley, bravos get bj upton and ben zobrist, then prado or he moves to 1b. we get 2 young right handed bats with speed and power, maybe throw something else in to get percival if hes healthy again

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
11:03 pm

it’s a tough job standing there with your hair on fire, trying to convince america you don’t small any smoke

DAP

November 10th, 2009
11:10 pm

Ncgary, I personally do not believe that your service and the service those who were casualties was in vain. I think the worst thing someone could tell those folks and their families is that it was for nothing. It wasn’t. that, however, and what you posted could be construed as political, so lets not go there again. Thanks to all our veterans.

DAP

November 10th, 2009
11:10 pm

cadagan Shouldn’t we be looking for players who hit lefties?

Did you know that the braves hit lefties better than righties in 2009? Why do you think the braves need a player who hits lefties well? Shouldn’t we just get the guy who can hit?

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
11:13 pm

heres a question for all the economists out there, why wouldnt a plan where each state opens a state bank that buys all residents mortgages and loans it back to them at 2%.the states make money, the residents then have money to spend the economy actually grows. states have to collect less taxes, to fulfill political needs and the only ones who lose are the illegitimate fed reserve banksters

sounds like a plan to me, hey maybe if this were undertaken maybe someone besides corporations could buy baseball tickets again

ncgary

November 10th, 2009
11:14 pm

well lets not , but the fact remains we were lied to. and thats the simple truth

Random

November 10th, 2009
11:18 pm

tr (November 10th, 2009 5:51 pm): “Read a quote from Utley (wish I could remember where and provide a link) a week or so ago about pushing the Phillies to go after his old college teammate, Garrett Atkins.”

Perhaps from Ken Rosenthal?

“Phillies second baseman Chase Utley, a former teammate of Atkins’ at UCLA, has always wanted his old college buddy to join him in Philadelphia. If Atkins became a free agent, the Phillies almost certainly could get him for less than the $5 million they would pay Pedro Feliz if they exercised his option. The team needs to make that decision by Monday.”

Chuck James Was Solid Until The 6th!!!

November 10th, 2009
11:26 pm

Hey DOB, Wayne In Utah, N8, Lew and Crew,

Long time no talk, hope all has been well.. We made a nice push at the end there this season, just fell short. If ATL opened the season with the team they had on the field the last week, no doubt they win the division…

Anyway just tossing in my two cents, I agree, sign Javy to an extension dump Lowe or Kawakami, UNLESS you can get Nelson Cruz for ATL’s 4 hole. He is the most ideal candidate. But again, would Javy approve? Realistically Braun is out of the picture, so I am infatuated with Cruz. We shall see…. Should be a VERY interesting offseason, Wren makes the most randomly timed outof nowhere moves.. I’m liking his work, but again, you better get a HELL of alot back for Javy or you’ll just piss Chipper off more and without Javy the rotation is powerful but not as intense without Javy. I can’t wait to see what happens!

Who here thinks ATL should sign Smoltz back for a bullpen role? I’m sure he’d loved to retire in ATL with Cox in his last season and as quoted by Olney, “Smoltz is opening to any role…” I’d offer a Glavine type incentive laced deal… How could you lose??

Dent

November 10th, 2009
11:30 pm

SOA was a monster! Its on. As far as the Braves go the move will be an under the radar guy who will be solid. Look at Diaz. No one heard of him but the Braves knew they wanted him. Cant see a monster move ahead. No Bay or Holliday etc. Maybe a Hawpe or someone like that.

P. W. Hjort

November 10th, 2009
11:48 pm

Every piece of news about Holliday I’ve been hearing is seemingly about teams being eliminated from his sweepstakes. The Yankees and Mets have downplayed it, the Giants seem to prefer Jason Bay and might not have the $$, the Red Sox also seem to prefer Bay, the Dodgers and Angels don’t seem to be suitors, and everyone seems convinced the Cardinals won’t be able to pull it off.

A lot of what gets said publicly is complete garbage this time of year: teams playing politics, trying not to tip their hand, intentionally tipping their hand, or flat out lying about something. But still, it makes me wonder….

brian

November 10th, 2009
11:48 pm

would Pedro Feliz be a good addition for the Braves if he is not offered arbitration? He could play 1B and spell Chipper at 3B when he is needed. He also would not block Freddie Freeman if and hopefully when he is ready for the big leagues. Since we do have Infante who is very versatile I wonder if Feliz would be a better fit (and a cheaper fit) than DeRosa.

brian

November 10th, 2009
11:52 pm

he Chuck James – I wonder if he has healed up from his surgery. Maybe a Chuck James in the bullpen?

DAP

November 10th, 2009
11:57 pm

ncgary, now thats just insulting. you dont know me. you dont know anything about what i know, what ive studied, what ive done, what i do, or the cajones i have have. so shut it.

NotAgain

November 11th, 2009
12:01 am

Let’s drop the politics. It’s against board policy. Take it somewhere else more appropriate.

ncgary

November 11th, 2009
12:03 am

sorry if you are insulted , but you keep bringing it up.

nolie

November 11th, 2009
12:06 am

yeah it’s not supposed to be here,Gary. you talking respect in a way, so respect DOB’s wishes.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
12:07 am

no gary, i dont keep bringing it up. every response ive made to you has been to tell you that you shouldnt be talking about that here.

ncgary

November 11th, 2009
12:09 am

i hear ya, didnt mean to get carried away, but so many just believe everything the media prints amd have no idea what the truth is. someone has to teach them to question and make things right, or civilization will fall and then there wont be any baseball

Nick from PA

November 11th, 2009
12:11 am

DOB,

Have you heard any grumblings about Joey Votto being on the trade block?

ncgary

November 11th, 2009
12:11 am

yeah happy veterans day. amen

klaus

November 11th, 2009
12:16 am

What would you trade to the Reds for 1B Votto? I don’t think he is tradable but MLBTR mentioned the Reds cutting payroll and looking to add low priced prospects. In that piece Votto’s name along with Harang was mentioned.

I would think they keep Votto b/c he is cheap and a great hitter.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
12:18 am

MLBTR says the reds will be cutting payroll and looking to deal. the entry mentioned dealing votto, though that doesnt seem to make sense for a team cutting payroll. but still, getting votto would be a nice pickup.

Andrew

November 11th, 2009
12:20 am

Klaus, well you start with Freeman, and another prospect.

ccrider

November 11th, 2009
12:21 am

A couple of interesting names just popped up on MLB Trade Rumors: According to a Cincy reporter The Reds need to trim payroll and would consider trading Brandon Phillips and (More Importantly) Joey Votto. Votto would fill the 1st base power source very cheaply and Phillips has 20+ HR power and 25+ SB

ncgary

November 11th, 2009
12:23 am

schaefer.freeman and a choice of medlin reyes or rorhbough?

ccrider

November 11th, 2009
12:24 am

DAP: Getting Votto and Trading Lowe could get us seriously in the Holiday/Bay Sweepstakes and leave money to build a wicked bullpen.

ncgary

November 11th, 2009
12:26 am

didnt votto have an illness this past year though? brief and unexplained?

ncgary

November 11th, 2009
12:27 am

like a few others are about too

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
12:28 am

Trade Joey Votto? No, haven’t heard that one. Unless there’s some circumstances I’m not aware of, that makes zero sense to me. Why would they even consider that? I really tend to doubt that one.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
12:30 am

ncgary someone has to teach them to question and make things right, or civilization will fall and then there wont be any baseball

that made me laugh. happy veterans day.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
12:32 am

DOB, doesnt make a ton of sense to me either, but the MLBTR site says they have yonder alonso waiting in the minors.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
12:37 am

i have to say, when i saw phillip’s name i scoffed, because his contract is kinda heavy for the production he supplies. he is owed $17.75mil garunteed over two years, with a third year option. but, the more i looked at what he brings, the more reasonable the contract looks. he plays excellent defense…one of the best 2nd baseman in the majors, i think, he is fast, steals bases, and hits a good number of doubles and homers. he does not get on base alot, but he has alot of value overall as a player.

Jay212033

November 11th, 2009
12:49 am

“I hope Wren doesn’t make the mistake of signing Billy Wagner and giving up his first round draft pick. For a Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, or John Lackey, sure. Long term investment that’s worth the pick. A 38 year old relief pitcher doesn’t fall into that category, imo.”

We already did this with a 40 Y.O. before and lost the #18 pick! I hope we don’t make that mistake again.

Jay212033

November 11th, 2009
12:53 am

I can see the Reds trading Alonso to get pitching but not Votto who’s young, cheap and controllable for the next 4 seasons. Now the Reds might be afraid of his mental issues he had this past season that could possibly be the reason but I doubt it.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:54 am

I think the note on MLBTradeRumors was saying that maybe Votto could be moved, if it would mean the obtaining team would take on a bad contract.

Kinda like Arroyo and Votto for a couple of good prospects. Supposedly, the Reds have an up and coming first base prospect….Soriano??? maybe?

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:55 am

alonso….that was it…

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:58 am

If you did a deal like that, you would have to turn around and deal away some salary for sure.

At 12-13 million for Harang or Arroyo, might be a tad steep. Both had OK years last year, but neither have impressed me enough to pay them that much. Maybe Harang a few years ago.

Does Votto bat left or right (too lazy to look it up)?

RHR

November 11th, 2009
1:03 am

Ahem.

I saw that, nolie.

nolie

November 11th, 2009
1:04 am

how ’bout Vazquez,Freeman & Diaz for Pujols??? ;)

nolie

November 11th, 2009
1:05 am

I saw that, nolie (RHR)

:oops:

lavell12

November 11th, 2009
1:06 am

DOB

The articel says the Reds would trade Votto to open a spot for a prospect but they would only do it if the trade partner took on one of their bad prospects.

Andrew in P-tang

November 11th, 2009
1:11 am

Votto is lefty, and really we can stop now with Albert Pujols trades,that is bananas

lavell12

November 11th, 2009
1:15 am

DOB is confusing me, do the Braves have interest in Nelson Cruz or not?

nolie

November 11th, 2009
1:19 am

♥♥♥♥Pijols♥♥♥♥

Bobby's Cox

November 11th, 2009
1:20 am

DOB,

Apologies. I reread your 6:13 and my response to it. Read it too quickly before & subsequently I “mis-read.” Agreed, what you or I think has no bearing on anything. Personally, I don’t think we have the pieces to offer Texas for Cruz, but I really like the guy. From what I’ve read about the Rangers over the last year, they want major-league ready talent (veterans) but don’t want to add much payroll. Maybe this could be a ploy by Wren, like you said, to not show much interest…we’ll see, but I’m sure Wren has many other viable options no one has thought of yet, and/or things will change as the offseason rolls along. My apologies though.

nolie

November 11th, 2009
1:20 am

and really we can stop now with Albert Pujols trades,that is bananas

♥♥sarcasm♥♥

nolie

November 11th, 2009
1:28 am

thank goodness Mad Men is over. Now I won’t have to read any more hyperbole about it. Ugh!! :roll:

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
1:43 am

I will trust Frank Wren and his judgement on deals. I think he learned some valuable lessons last year with Towers, Furcal, Burnett and Junior.

That is why you are not hearing a lot of nuggets emerging from their camp. At this point, we hot stovers are reliant on other teams personnel, and we all know they are liars.

:lol:

Maybe we wake up tomorrow to a new hard hitting righthander, but don’t hold your breath.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
1:45 am

What is Mad Men? Is that a movie or TV show? Well, they haven’t talked about it yet on FoxNews, and I didn’t hear Cramer mention it tonight, so it doesn’t exist in my universe……

:-)

Andrew in P-tang

November 11th, 2009
2:36 am

Thats why John S. was so good, he never tipped his hand.

tdmorgan

November 11th, 2009
2:40 am

Wayne, Mad Men is a show on AMC that is based on the advertising industry in the 1960s

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
4:09 am

WTF is wrong with you people?

When you see a Pujols trade idea, how can you believe it’s anything other than sarcasm? Hell, I’m on ounce 15 of the cheapest liquor available, and even I know it’s BS. C’mon folks, if you can’t appreciate a little sarcasm, “well then Jed, I don’t even want to know you” (saw the Josiah post and response, earlier; love the West Wing mention).

I’m sayin’ twice a week, at least, some cat here’ll say JoJo, BJones, and Medlen for Pujols and Ludwick. Maybe we include KJ, if necessary. And, without fail, no less than two posts will ridicule the proposal.

People, how do you go through life with a mind like that? Fire a second synapse, I beg you.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
4:17 am

And, yes, I’m the only man on the planet to have called Random out without a response. Dude catches every post, but I managed to slip one through.

OK, this is BS, and I’m just tryin’ to get a response. But, just sayin’, maybe Random’s not NSA…probably just the INS (or ICE, or whatever the heck it is now).

And, I’m not sure I want a Random reaction; no doubt I’ll not win.

And, what was with that dude knocking prolly. Please tell me prolly is perfectly acceptable for probably. Dude really though it was a spelling thing? C’mon man, this thing is conversational. Like when I say Anders is a douche-bag, and just go d-bag. Correct grammar and spelling is inferred by all, right?

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
4:23 am

And, where in the hell is everybody?

I know ‘OB’ll point out the time. But, f’ that. I need someone to ridicule. I’ve got no original ideas; I need someone else so I can post.

And, why can’t I stop picturing cabravesfan and Vinings (or Venice, or Vagabond, or Vagrant) Jim as rabbits?

And, though I believe I’ve asked before, why must I start every-freakin’-post with And? My English teacher said no, yet my mind says yes.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
4:40 am

All right, if nobody’s here, I’ll ridicule from memory. Although, in this case, ridicule is too strong. Let’s go with: present another idea.

McFann,

I’ve been impressed that over the last few months you’ve come to see your boy more as he is, instead of what we want him to be. I believe you’ve got his current skill-set pinpointed as good, or better, than us all.

But, I saw you post recently, on this subject, and wanted to mention a prolly (screw that guy) minor point. Preface: love 16’s setup. Prolly ’cause it reminds me of my own (or, at least, I think mine was somewhere near that good). His early target, and square and quiet movement (in addition to being a Braves catcher) are prollly what made me like him so much.

But, an early target gives the opponent the chance to steal that information. My JC and college teams routinely gave hitters that info. I’ve no idea how common that is at the pro level. Hopefully, one of the cats who does’ll opine, but there is a real reason why you’ll see catchers set up late, and oftentimes, so late that it can’t possibly be good for the pitcher. I believe you mentioned a Mets catcher, and I distinctly remember thinking, as you did, that his pre-pitch action was horrible. I’d even go so far to say that even if an opponent was tipping location, that a late set-up could do more harm than good. Again, I hope someone more knowledgable’ll post.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
4:49 am

Veterans past, present, and future: thank you.

In a similar vein: I ask all of you this small favor: Please see your local McDonalds, your local car dealer, your local “let me fly this ’cause it might make me more money,” and, if our flag is in tatters, as it will be a shockingly high percentage of the time, politely ask them to replace it, and offer to take the existing flag to a Legion Post, or some other appropriate location for disposal. Thank you.

Couch Tater

November 11th, 2009
5:05 am

And, I was ready to “fire” a post about your NEURONIC freakin’ 4:09. Then, you post the flag wavin’ thang…

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
5:16 am

The two aren’t mutually exclusive Tater.

If I’m bein’ NEURONIC, however you’ve defined it, call me on it. All I acn say, right or wrong, is that sarcasm is as beautiful as our flag; support them both.

And why, every time I see Tater, do I think of Ron White’s “Tater Salad” bit. Hilarious, sarcasm included.

ncgary

November 11th, 2009
5:19 am

you guys getting the noahs ark flood in atlanta too

Couch Tater

November 11th, 2009
5:40 am

Hee. I watched the bit BAS. I’d forgotten that.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
5:40 am

Preface: I know my own clarity is not reality.

But, it seems clear to me that our team’s future, at least over the next two years, is in the hands of Messrs. Schafer and Freeman. If those two are average big-leaguers, Braves are average. If those two are superior players, Braves are superior.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
5:54 am

I miss journalist jimmy smith; I miss jjs.

I miss the random bits of BS that dude brought. I miss the interesting nonsense, the out-of-nowhere creativity. I feel like the non-baseball stuff, here, is more forced, now. Sadly, I know where the dude blogs now. I feel like Ted Williams, in his prime, is hitting for, well, nobody.

But, I’ve gotta ask, couch or recliner?

Couch Tater, with his better-than-most screen-name poses an important, life-altering question: couch or recliner?

And, does it matter if my living-room sets up better for a couch? At what point does one sacrifice good seating for comfortability? And, if a dude, let’s say me, only has the big-screen in one smallish room, making it impossible to have both a sofa, and a recliner, in prime seating and listening locations, which way does one lean?

All I know, is I’ve got the couch, perpindicular to the screen, and perfectly measured from the speakers, in no-less-than five different directions. But, a man should have a recliner. Somebody, anybody, help me.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
5:59 am

And, wtf is scoots always saying that rookies are gonna play like rookies. Shut it, Mr. Reality. May 1, Schafer is a top-three CF in the NL. June 15, Heyward is Pujols, ‘cept in the OF, with the range of 2001 Andruw Jones, and an arm somewhere between Ichiro and Vlad. Aug 1, Freeman is DLee, but from the left side.

C’mon man, this stuff is obvious. Wake up.

tr

November 11th, 2009
6:50 am

Random (11:18 p.m.):

That was it. Thanks! Read a LOT lately and couldn’t recall. If his report was accurate, ya gotta figure that GH is headed to Philly unless something strange happens. Several were speculating here about him.

It’s gonna be an interesting off-season, especially if the Yank$ hang on to their free agent cash like they’ve said they would. Without them running up the standard rate, there could be some real bargains come spring training!

ncscoots

November 11th, 2009
6:50 am

I don’t care what anybody says, an overnight with BASteve toting the water can’t be bad, LOL. Way to go, my friend.

I’ll second his request on the flags, with this addition: don’t just do it today. But better today only than never. And find a veteran today and shake his or her hand. You don’t have to get all misty about it, just show some by-god props to somebody who doesn’t get enough. Lots of vets on this blog (though you don’t hear them speak of it much), so here’s my virtual “thanks” to all of them.

Recliner Tater

November 11th, 2009
6:50 am

Just doesn’t have the same ring.

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 11th, 2009
6:56 am

Reds might trade Brandon Phillips. We should get him and let Prado play 1B

brent a.

November 11th, 2009
7:14 am

As much as I’d love to have B Phillips, I really don’t want to see Prado at first.

Would love to see Joey Votto at 1B, although, the MLBtrumors inclination was that the Reds would likely want to send a bad contract along with Votto, who is under team control until 2013. In short, he’s probably not getting traded.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
7:20 am

I’m all but certain functioning alcoholics should not be given days off mid-week. I can’t seem to ascertain when I discovered this knowledge, but…

OK, so I seem to recall a post here talkin’ about a pitcher’s value. Somethin’ about if a pitcher is well-above-avergage for 24 starts, but horse-shit for eight… Seems like it was WillyWally, but, he’s my default guy…

Anybody got the stats for such a pitcher. Is it possible Lowe’s season was more valuable than a guy with better numbers?

Finally, I’ve found an off-season position I’m comfortable with: last year’s was Save Yunel; this year is Save Vazquez. And, if the MRI is clean, and if someone’ll lay me 8-1, I’ll take Huddy winnin’ the Cy Young.

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
7:30 am

DOB,

The Braves re-sign Hudson and slash 3 million of payroll in doing so. Why do they need to trade any of their pitchers?

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
7:34 am

What I’m saying is, there is no hurry to deal anyone. Wren placed himself in this position of strength, and he willuse it. Kawakami in the bullpen costs no more than Soriano did. It’s a wash, and Kawakami may be very well suited for this Chan Ho Park roll.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
7:35 am

Couch Tater,

agreed that Recliner Tater doesn’t have the same ring. But, seriously, how do folks, like me, who have limited space, set up a room. Couch, or recliner. I’ve gotta think, one of man’s great questions…

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
7:37 am

Role, not roll. But hey, pun intended as Park had a very good year.

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
7:38 am

“I think that’s becoming more and more the feeling, that you’re weighing the value of those draft picks – sometimes maybe overvaluing them,” Wren said. “I think the pendulum might have swung too far. You talk to general managers, I think the pendulum might have swung a little too far on the value of young players.”

Based on Wren’s comment’s from DOB’s report is Wren setting us up for: 1) no deals; 2) free agent signing(s); or 3) trading prospects? Or is he just commenting on the state of the game with no underlying message?

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
7:42 am

Trade Lowe and Freeman to Detroit for Miguel Cabrera. He’s under contract for 6 years at 19 million per. We have the right handed, power hitting 1st baseman.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
7:43 am

Unbelievable how often folks here propose Prado for the 3; or McCann for the 3. How can you folks not balance the stick relative to the glove? McCann at 2: HOFer (at this pace). McCann at 3: Kotchmanesque (exaggeration, to make a point, but…) Prado at 4, awfully good so far, and maybe even a future all-star. Prado at 3, out of the league tomorrow.

Oh, a random thought: functioning alcoholics shouldn’t be given days off mid-week; ’tis not good for the health.

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
7:44 am

Detroit needs a veteran pitcher from Michigan and a young inexpensive replacement for Cabrera.

dap01

November 11th, 2009
7:50 am

Seems that we are hearing less actual rumors this year. Most things discussed here are manufactured here. Can’t wait for things to pick up.

Sign LaRoche, Sign Smoltz as a relief pitcher, Sign Dye, Deal a starting pitcher in the year ONLY if that depth is not needed. Sign Gonzo, Sign Wagner. Drop Johnson, Church, and Soriano.

No change in payroll.

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
7:51 am

dap01,

I like my daydream better.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
7:52 am

Joey Votto anyone?

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
7:53 am

dap01, I dont see them signing Smoltz or Dye.

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
7:54 am

O.J.,

No – Miguel Cabrera. Furcal can advise him of the DUI roadblock locations in Atlanta.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
7:55 am

Seeing as how Furcal doesnt play for Atlanta, not sure how he will do that. Besides, Joey Votto may be available, Cabrera not so much.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
7:56 am

eyeball kid,

I’m certain it was a mistake, but I’m an ass, and lookin’ for an Anders/Lentz fight, so I’ll say: there is no available baseball player on our planet worth 19M for 6 years.

Now, Jessica Alba, yes, Penelope Cruz (for our leader) perhaps, but a 54 year old, 270 pound Miggy Cabrera? The Braves franchise would, without a doubt, be better served to spend the money on lottery tickets.

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
7:57 am

BAS,

Probably, but I like a guy that drinks.

toga party

November 11th, 2009
7:57 am

I just want to say thanks to all those who’ve served in our nation’s military. Thank you for your service and your sacrifice.

CB

November 11th, 2009
7:58 am

This is my favorite holiday of the year because we all need a day to remember those who have fallen and those who are serving or have served. We go around in our everyday lives and forget what we have in this country, the freedom to speak our minds that so many countries do not allow. I lost a brother in an unpopular VietNam war,many of those soldiers were called baby killers and worse. We need to honor every soldier who serves this country and make them know they are appreciated. You don’t have to agree with the politics of any war to know what they are fighting for. God bless our veterans.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
8:04 am

DAP/dap01 confuses me; I’m not bright.

If Smoltz’d shove his ego down the shaft of his 6-iron, he’s the perfect candidate for our bullpen, ‘considering the Braves’ bullpen MO: cheap, with upside.

Someone here posted a valid point, that the Braves wouldn’t want to cut him again. I feel, in my hammered opinion, that if Wren thought Smoltz could help, and could help for cheap, he wouldn’t worry a second about having to release Smoltz again. It seems to me, from a coupla thousand miles away, Braves’ fans weren’t exactly boycotting ’cause of the Smoltz and Glavine releases.

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
8:06 am

BAS,

Like Eddie Mathews. Got drunk, nearly beat up a guy good in Cinncinnati, and played the next day. No harm , no foul.

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
8:09 am

No more former Braves please. Unless of course it’s Johnny Estrada or Jeff Francouer.

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
8:13 am

LaRoche anyone? Overall, looks like teams are tightening up finacially. Wonder if LaRoche would be more open to arb, hoping that the game’s economics improve by 2011?

Or would he agree to a beefed up two-year deal?

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
8:17 am

Jeff R,

Seems to me the Braves are more impressed by his 1st half largesse than his 2nd half production.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
8:27 am

Ok, I’m drunk,

but if LaRoche had anything approaching first-half largesse, he’d've been re-signed in August.

Bay Area Steve

November 11th, 2009
8:30 am

I think I’ll go to bed now. That’s discipline folks; you gotta know when to quit. ‘Tis all ’bout moderation.

eyeball kid

November 11th, 2009
8:30 am

BAS,

Come on over to the Cabrera side of things. You’d love him as a Brave.

dap01

November 11th, 2009
8:30 am

Eyeball: After looking at Cabrera’s stats, I agree, I like your dream better too!

AustinBrave

November 11th, 2009
8:32 am

Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips put Prado in right. Trade Medlen, Schafer, Bradon Jones, and Freeman. Then get Dye for left. We are set with pop.

Dawg

November 11th, 2009
8:36 am

Enter your comments here

CB

November 11th, 2009
8:40 am

eyeball kid, I have been on the Cabrera bandwagon for months and usually ridiculed for thinking it. A lot of things would need to be done, dumping Lowe and some more salary but he is the perfect man for our lineup.

NEW CARS

November 11th, 2009
8:41 am

Is Schaefer playing winter ball anywhere, or did he shut it down until spring training? I’m still liking the Conor Jackson angle for lf…He’s a young guy who has had a couple of injuries hold him back, but he seems to have good plate discipline and some pop.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
8:50 am

Austin, I like your idea, all except for signing Dye, he is getting way too old to risk on that position

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
8:51 am

New Cars, I believe he is just now starting to workout for the offseason, just recently got the cast off.

Versiroth

November 11th, 2009
8:52 am

How about this? MTR states that the Reds could possibly be interested in trading Joey Votto. How about we offer Jurrjens straight up? That would give us a cheap, young power hitting # 4 hitter for years to come and we would still have a solid Rotation in Vazquez, Hudson, Lowe, Hanson and Kawakami. Votto hit 322 last year with an OBP over 400 and a slugging % over 500. I would do that in a heartbeat.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
8:54 am

Versiroth, HELL NO!!!

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
8:55 am

Freeman would have to be part of any trade for a first baseman, unless its a 1 year rental, which Votto is not. No way you trade Jurrjens, a stud pitcher, for Votto.

AustinBrave

November 11th, 2009
8:56 am

I forgot throw in Kelly Johnson for there second baseman.

dpelfrey

November 11th, 2009
8:58 am

You guys are all silly. Talking about big trades and right-handed power hitters. The real important question for this offseason is who’s going to replace Greg Norton!!! That’s the biggest hole to fill in all of MLB.

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
9:00 am

Bay Area Steve, a singular performance to keep the fire going overnight. Damn funny stuff. Oh, and I agree on your 5:54. A man needs a recliner.

AustinBrave

November 11th, 2009
9:01 am

dpelfrey- Easy sign Nomar he can play 1st, ss,3rd plus till has some pop in his bat, and he went to Georgia Tech. He would love to come to Atlanta.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
9:02 am

Eyeball Kid-Because $3 million in savings would barely get us a couple dozen bats much less a significant RH hitter to swing it and hit HR’s?

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
9:06 am

New Cars: Schafer is getting his cast off in a couple of weeks, a little ahead of schedule (they thought it might be mid- to late-December. But obviously he’s not playing winter ball, that being the case. They believe he will probably be able to get the wrist and arm strengthened and flexible for the start of spring training, barring a setback between now and then.

As for expectations or plans for him this year, Wren told me, “I think we’ll just watch him in spring training. I don’t think we have any preconceived ideas. He just needs to play. I think the likelihood is he’ll be in the minor leagues to start the season, but we’re not going to predetermine that in November, either.”

Don

November 11th, 2009
9:11 am

In dealing with options to improve, it is amazing that the Braves ignore or do not consider the most significant need – the most severe and greatest problem. They keep Bobby Cox when his management procedures and lack thereof does more harm to the team than all of their other problems put together. To make this even more amazing – to solve this problem would be very simple.

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
9:14 am

McFanny Trade Bmac to the twins for Mauer.

Don’t be ridiculous. That’s a horrible trade! Worst one I’ve seen yet. The Twins would have to at least toss in Morneau along with Mauer. :roll:

Bay Area Steve I’ve been impressed that over the last few months you’ve come to see your boy more as he is, instead of what we want him to be. I believe you’ve got his current skill-set pinpointed as good, or better, than us all.

Thank you. This past season was sort of…humbling, I guess you could say. I mean, when it was getting ready to start, I had my head high–and my expectations even higher. I felt like this would be it, ya know? I thought Mark Bradley might possibly be correct–BMac, the MVP of the NL. He was gonna add on to ’08’s numbers with improved defense! Then as April progressed, I sorta felt like I was sulking around “with my tail between my legs”, so to speak.

When his eyes were opened, so were mine…at least somewhat. He’s still the best hitting catcher this side–or any side, if you’re NL–of the Mississippi. But his defense…while improved, I thought, it still has a few serious flaws. And while that was very hard for me to admit–let alone type on the World Wide Web–I knew then that it was time for me to stop pretending that he’s something he’s not…really. That’s not to say he doesn’t have his good points on defense! Which brings us to what you were referring to in your post: His setup (which isn’t his only good point on D, but that’s another post…or maybe book at this point…)

You make a good point about the early setup–I mean, about hitters trying to steal the target. There were many times when I’d see BMac’s eyes shift to the hitter’s eyes to be sure he wasn’t peeking. Even still, though…all the guy has to do is glance back for a second. That’s easy to miss. But I’d still have to agree that a late setup does more harm than good–it’s no good for the pitcher. I remember Smoltz talking about liking BMac’s setup and how quiet he is back there–that’s why John wanted him as his catcher.

I did mention that Mets’ guy (who Joe and Chip were in love with for whatever reason). His name’s Thole, and yeah–horrible setup, if I may say so. I think Baker of the Marlins is a little wild back there as well.

Anyway, looks like I’ve already written my College Thesis…and I haven’t even finished highschool yet. :roll: Ah well, what the heck…

HAPPY VETERANS DAY!! And a hugh THANK YOU to all the Veterans out there! This Beautiful Country of ours wouldn’t be the same without you.

Don

November 11th, 2009
9:15 am

Granted that Bobby Cox has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer — But it is still amazing that even he could manage for over 20 years and still not understand the absolute necessity of teaching/ emphasizing/ demanding that hitters work the count, be selective, make the pitcher throw some pitches – if you are going to have consistant run production. He has never done this. And even more unbelievable is the fact that the AJC writers just ignore this. Of course, this is one of the main reasons that players like him — Most hitters like the freedom to just go up and hack away without any restrictions.

Versiroth

November 11th, 2009
9:16 am

O.J.

Votto would produce EVERY night… Jurrjens, once a week. We have 6 quality pitchers and need offense. Again, I’d trade Jurrjens for Votto in a second.

Efrim

November 11th, 2009
9:17 am

If you can get to it, I’d read Buster Olney’s blog this morning entitled “The Spawn of Moneyball”. Good read.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
9:22 am

Well then, its a GREAT thing you arent a GM.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
9:22 am

CB-

I actually like the Cabrera idea. Do I see it happening…no, but I like it as one of his very best friends (Prado) and a guy who he hangs w/ in the offseason could be useful to help keep him in line as well as Bobby.

Like you said, really gives us the bat we need AND its always beneficial to have a guy on your side that used to really stick it to you.

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
9:24 am

I don’t think I’d trade Jurrjens for Votto…of course, I’d trade Lowe for him in half a heartbeat. I like Votto a lot.

Huh, but it’s not like the Reds are gonna give him away…

It’s too bad BMac’s brother retired. There’s your first baseman right there! And a lot of people here would get there wish–we’d have McCann on first base!

;)

BravesfaninWis

November 11th, 2009
9:25 am

I like the idea of trading for Votto. I also like the idea of Votto and Phillips for Medlen, Freeman, B. Jones, and stick KJ in that deal. Move Prado to RF, or LF depending on what we do for either OF corner position. We would then get speed, and power in one deal. Then we can trade Lowe for some prospects, turn around and trade those prospects for a power hitting OF bat.

BravesfaninWis

November 11th, 2009
9:26 am

McFann,

Wasn’t Brad McCann a SS?

keylargo

November 11th, 2009
9:29 am

Don – I wish you would contribute something to the blog or shut up. I’ve read your tired crap before – many times.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
9:33 am

Oh, and I fully expect the Mets to make an all-out run at Brandon Phillips.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
9:40 am

keylargo-Why do you even bother?

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
9:41 am

Great stuff from Bob Knight, Coach K and Bill Parcells on SportsCenter, about their West Point experiences.

And let me offer a proverbial tip of the cap to all veterans and current enlisted men and women today. Regardless of whether we agree or disagree with the politics behind the ongoing wars or other wars, those who serve our country deserve utmost respect. They have mine.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
9:41 am

DOB and others
What is your take on Friday Night Lights…..I think it is one of the best shows in the past 10 years. I watched the first two episodes of the new season on Direct TV and they were as great as the first few seasons. I’m shocked that the ratings haven’t been better.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
9:42 am

Bravesfaninwis-If the Reds were to trade Votto for Jurrjens, do you really think that makes either the Braves or the Reds stronger and more likely to win their division? Rhetorical, Dude, because first of all it ain’t happening (nor would there likely be interest from either side) and it wouldn’t really help either team to begin with.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
9:46 am

beekay-

STOP IT RIGHT NOW!

Those of us who only have NBC won’t get to see it til Spring…I don’t need you to come on here and talk about it.

Thanks.

RHR

November 11th, 2009
9:48 am

Recliner Tater

Between that and the BAS late night chronicles, my day has started with a big smile. Ha. Thanks, boys.

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
9:49 am

BravesfaninWis

Yeah. But he was playing 1B in the Marlins/Royals organizations IIRC.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
9:49 am

beekay-

And yes, as you can see…one of my fav shows :)

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
9:50 am

McFann-

Yes, but Frank Thomas could still be playing 1b in the Marlins & Royals organizations ;)

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
9:52 am

Brad McCann, baseball-reference.com

He played 248 games at 1B, 24 at 3B in the minors. Think he was a SS in HS…

tr

November 11th, 2009
9:53 am

Damon + Braves = decent fit
Boras + Damon (3 or 4 years @ $13M) = bad fit for anyone

Aaron Harang @ $12.5M
Bronson Arroyo @ $12.25 M
If that’s what’s available on the trade market, suddenly Lowe doesn’t look so untradeable.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
9:56 am

P-Town
I won’t give details on the show but i can tell you that it’s as good or better than the previous season

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
9:58 am

Beekay: Agreed on FNL — one of best shows of the past decade. I, too, will be watching when the season comes to NBC, so please no spoilers.

Crazy Trades McGee

November 11th, 2009
9:58 am

OOOOOHHH! It’s my favorite time of the year! Bring on the Crazy Trades! I got one for ya, Kelly Johnson for the Texas Rangers ball club, I hear its for sale. BAM!

beekay

November 11th, 2009
10:00 am

Julio’s info…still only 18 years old
Signed: Columbia, 2007. Signed by: Miguel Teheran/Carlos Garcia.
Background: The Braves signed Teheran for $850,000, the largest bonus given to a pitcher on the international market in 2007. After pitching sparingly in 2008 because of shoulder tendinitis, Teheran returned to the Rookie-level Appalachian League last summer and ranked as the loop’s top prospect.

Strengths: Teheran throws easy heat with plus command and mound presence beyond his years. His fastball resides at 92-96 mph and holds its velocity throughout the game. His sharp, mid-70s curveball has good depth and can be a plus pitch, particularly after he tightened its spin. His 79-82 mph changeup is also an above-average pitch at times, with depth, fade and screwball-like movement. He has impressive poise that some scouts believe borders on cockiness.

Weaknesses: Teheran is still learning how to pitch. His physical stamina needs some work, and scouts have some concerns about his mechanics, which aren’t effortless. He has a long arm rotation in the back of his herky-jerky delivery that creates deception but attracts questions about his durability.

The Future: Teheran has all the ingredients to develop into a frontline starter. He’s expected to return to low Class A Rome to open the 2010 slate. While the Braves will be cautious due to his youth and lack of physical maturity, Teheran could accelerate his timetable.
2009 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG
Danville (R) 2 1 2.68 7 7 0 0 44 36 2 7 39 .229
Rome (Lo A) 1 3 4.78 7 7 0 0 38 42 2 11 28 .288

Rock On......

November 11th, 2009
10:01 am

beekay…IMO, Friday Night Lights is the best-cast show since Cheers. It is on DirectTV now and NBC this summer. You can catch it on YouTube in segments. Just a tremendous show.

Rock On......

November 11th, 2009
10:04 am

And by the way, the first episode is on, sans commercials. On YouTube that is. Just as great as prior years-maybe better.

RHR

November 11th, 2009
10:04 am

Piffle. Absolutely not. The only way I’d do that trade is if the Rangers throw in the Astros too.

CB

November 11th, 2009
10:09 am

I told my wife about Recliner Tater- she just looked at me and laughed. I keep asking myself,why did she laugh? :-)

bigboi

November 11th, 2009
10:09 am

They would also have to throw in the Houston Rockets

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
10:09 am

beekay-

Makes me excited for that. Especially when the networks have already decided to pull some of the best shows and are thinkin about pulling others.

This will give you an idea of how my DVR fills up, but the problems with stupid networks killing off shows:

Sunday-
Three Rivers (cancellation likely)
In Plain Sight (returns in Jan)
Monday-
Two and a Half Men
Big Bang Theory
CSI Miami
Castle
Tuesday-
NCIS LA
The Forgotten (possible cancellation – best new show on TV)
Wednesday-
Gary Unmarried (possible cancellation)
Criminal Minds
Leverage (when it returns – awesome show on TNT)
Thursday-
Flash Forward (amazing new show)
Burn Notice (returns in Jan – best of the best on USA)
Friday-
Law & Order (heard it may be the last year)
Flashpoint (returns in Jan)
Numb3rs (best returning show – may get cancelled)
Psych (returns in Jan)
White Collar (new show – must watch on USA)

So that gives you a pretty good idea of what I am doing with my free time when I’m not at work, at a college basketball game, or on here :)

Yeah, apparently I AM that boring…and sadly, there used to be more to watch before this ridiculously crappy “reality show” phase came in.

Anything else I should be tuning in to?

I heard Mad Men is great, but just never got into that…

And love Entourage, but don’t have HBO…same w/ Dexter and Showtime…

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
10:12 am

Oh, and I watched Trauma on Mondays on NBC…but apparently that has already been cancelled and no other episodes will air.

The problem really is that anyone like myself who DVR’s shows and never really watches anything live…that doesn’t count towards the show ratings now, so its like I never watched it according to them…

Ridiculous really!

Iceman

November 11th, 2009
10:12 am

Bring back JERMAINE DYE!!! Never should’ve got rid of him.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
10:18 am

P-Town
That’s quite a list…might be good to have some of them cancelled so you can come up for air….I like the Office, I really liked 24 but not sure if Jack Bauer is coming back or not and the Ultimate Fighter on Spike but I usually am glued to ESPN, Fox News and I have the NFL package(Jet fan), the NBA package(Celtic fan) and of course MLB extra innings to watch the Bravos…I also am ashamed to admit it but I watch the Real World and Idol.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
10:19 am

No on Jermaine Dye.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
10:20 am

Julio is still only 18!
3. Julio Teheran, rhp Born: Jan. 27, 1991. B-T: R-R. Ht.: 6-2. Wt.: 160.
Signed: Columbia, 2007. Signed by: Miguel Teheran/Carlos Garcia.
Background: The Braves signed Teheran for $850,000, the largest bonus given to a pitcher on the international market in 2007. After pitching sparingly in 2008 because of shoulder tendinitis, Teheran returned to the Rookie-level Appalachian League last summer and ranked as the loop’s top prospect.

Strengths: Teheran throws easy heat with plus command and mound presence beyond his years. His fastball resides at 92-96 mph and holds its velocity throughout the game. His sharp, mid-70s curveball has good depth and can be a plus pitch, particularly after he tightened its spin. His 79-82 mph changeup is also an above-average pitch at times, with depth, fade and screwball-like movement. He has impressive poise that some scouts believe borders on cockiness.

Weaknesses: Teheran is still learning how to pitch. His physical stamina needs some work, and scouts have some concerns about his mechanics, which aren’t effortless. He has a long arm rotation in the back of his herky-jerky delivery that creates deception but attracts questions about his durability.

The Future: Teheran has all the ingredients to develop into a frontline starter. He’s expected to return to low Class A Rome to open the 2010 slate. While the Braves will be cautious due to his youth and lack of physical maturity, Teheran could accelerate his timetable.
2009 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG
Danville (R) 2 1 2.68 7 7 0 0 44 36 2 7 39 .229
Rome (Lo A) 1 3 4.78 7 7 0 0 38 42 2 11 28 .288

RC

November 11th, 2009
10:25 am

DOB,

Don’t take this as a “spoiler” (it can be seen from previews of the show), but the kid who played Wallace in Season 1 of the wire has a very prominent role in this Season of FNL. Not sure if it’ll continue, but his acting has been great to this point.

RC

November 11th, 2009
10:25 am

Should have been “The Wire”. Sorry, haven’t had coffee yet.

Tomahawk Talk

November 11th, 2009
10:27 am

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/reds-to-cut-payroll-big-names-could-be-dealt.html

Says the Reds may want to look to trade Joey Votto to make room for Yonder Alonso at first base. I can’t see the Reds doing that but damn would he be nice in our lineup. Has a career OPS of over .900 AVG of .320 and HR average around 30. He’s a left handed batter which would kind of suck. He’s young and would block Freeman so I don’t see the Braves going after him, but wow would he look good.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
10:31 am

He’s a left handed batter which would kind of suck.

what is the obsession with right handed hitters? having votto would in no way suck. with a hitter like votto, the side of the plate he stands on should have no importance to you.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
10:32 am

beekay-

I watched Idol last year after not watching it for awhile…thought it was actually really good and was happy that Kris Allen won as I felt he was being lowballed by the judges and he deserved it! Happy to see Paula leave, but not sure if I will like Ellen as a judge.

I fully admit I still watch wrestling, but on a less regular basis since when Linda McMahon decided she wanted to run for Senate they decided to make the product more family friendly. The PG rated wrestling is killing the overall product value in my opinion.

And yeah, I watch a lot of ESPN the other hours of the day and catch up again before bed.

Along w/ that, I was glued to the MLB Network every day for the first few months after it came on, and will probably do so once again come February or if any big Braves news happens.

Somehow I manage to fit all this in to my week still working 40+ hrs (yes, Im there right now) and now have to fit my college basketball in as I have had season tickets every year for the past 18 years to watch my other beloved Braves :)

cvbraves

November 11th, 2009
10:32 am

Read Jeff’s piece on AJC page about Adrian Gonzalez possibilities. Wonder who San Diego would want in return? Want to see what DOB, Lew, Random and others think about this possibility!

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
10:35 am

TT-

IF we somehow were able to grab Votto (which I don’t EVER see happening), Freeman would be packaged w/ Lowe or Kawakami or Vazquez somewhere for another bat.

I would take Votto over Freeman simply because I always value proven talent over unproven.

Tomahawk Talk

November 11th, 2009
10:36 am

i think its dumb. no way we go after him. hes a lefty. they have said we need a RIGHT handed bat. they would ask for too much in return.

OldBravesBag

November 11th, 2009
10:37 am

Dave…. Any speculation about Kelly? Thanks……

Lew

November 11th, 2009
10:37 am

Not too sure why, if the Reds are trying to trim payroll, they would trade a player making the ML minimum for this season and only being first year arb eligible next year. Why would they trade a player hitting over .300, with a high OBP and 25 HR to make room for a rookie? This makes damned little sense since he’s actually played a little outfield, so move him to LF to make room for the new guy if that is the way they want to go.

bravesfan1984

November 11th, 2009
10:37 am

who cares if votto is a lefty…if we get him he would be replacing laroche who is a lefty…that’s why we can look for a right handed bat for the outfield. brandon phillips sure would look good in the lineup as well but i’d rather have votto who is only going to improve

Lew

November 11th, 2009
10:38 am

OldBraves-Yeah, there’s speculation they’ll non-tender him and let him walk.

bravesfan1984

November 11th, 2009
10:38 am

but in my opinion like others have stated…the reds would be foolish to part ways with votto…they need to make him the centerpiece of that team for the future

Tomahawk Talk

November 11th, 2009
10:39 am

P-Town

I would love to see Votto in the lineup, but like I said about Gonzalez. He’s a lefty. If they did trade Vazquez or Lowe in the deal they would have the money to go out and get a Righty for the outfield but then what do you do with Heyward when hes ready THIS year. Votto does hit for a high average so I assume he hits lefties ok. I’d be ok with going after him but I just don’t see why the Reds would want to do that. Plus the return price would be just as steep as Gonzalez

beekay

November 11th, 2009
10:40 am

Not bad for an 18 year old…Julio could be our next Hanson in 2-3 years

Signed: Columbia, 2007. Signed by: Miguel Teheran/Carlos Garcia.
Background: The Braves signed Teheran for $850,000, the largest bonus given to a pitcher on the international market in 2007. After pitching sparingly in 2008 because of shoulder tendinitis, Teheran returned to the Rookie-level Appalachian League last summer and ranked as the loop’s top prospect.

Strengths: Teheran throws easy heat with plus command and mound presence beyond his years. His fastball resides at 92-96 mph and holds its velocity throughout the game. His sharp, mid-70s curveball has good depth and can be a plus pitch, particularly after he tightened its spin. His 79-82 mph changeup is also an above-average pitch at times, with depth, fade and screwball-like movement. He has impressive poise that some scouts believe borders on cockiness.

Weaknesses: Teheran is still learning how to pitch. His physical stamina needs some work, and scouts have some concerns about his mechanics, which aren’t effortless. He has a long arm rotation in the back of his herky-jerky delivery that creates deception but attracts questions about his durability.

The Future: Teheran has all the ingredients to develop into a frontline starter. He’s expected to return to low Class A Rome to open the 2010 slate. While the Braves will be cautious due to his youth and lack of physical maturity, Teheran could accelerate his timetable.
2009 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG
Danville (R) 2 1 2.68 7 7 0 0 44 36 2 7 39 .229
Rome (Lo A) 1 3 4.78 7 7 0 0 38 42 2 11 28 .288

ChipChop

November 11th, 2009
10:41 am

I like the Joey Votto/Brandon Phillips idea IF you could get them from Cincy. It really isn’t an issue that Votto is a lefty. You just add righties in left and right. Didn’t Brandon Phillips play third at one point? He may be able to move over to third when/if Chipper Jones retires. If you get pop at first and Phillips has moderate power, then you can add speed at one of your outfield positions.

TnBrian

November 11th, 2009
10:42 am

cvbraves, TnBrian says for Gonzalez I wouldn’t go more than a Freeman, Medlen, Schafer deal. That’s probably not going to get that done because he’s one of the best hitters in the league & getting paid like an average player. Could still happen, but Votto might be more realistic since those two are the topics this morning.

RC

November 11th, 2009
10:43 am

Here’s some random speculation for you guys – Braves trade Kelly Johnson to San Francisco. I saw an article this morning mentioning that SF is looking to add a bat at either 1b or 3b, but could also potentially make an addition at 2b by moving Pablo Sandoval from 3b to 1b and Freddy Sanchez from 2b to 3b.

Tomahawk Talk

November 11th, 2009
10:43 am

Where do you play Phillips now?

Thrillhouse44

November 11th, 2009
10:45 am

TnBrian, did you just go third person on us???

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
10:47 am

I believe he did, Thrillhouse.

CB

November 11th, 2009
10:48 am

CB says is that cool now?

Lew

November 11th, 2009
10:48 am

If our trade pieces are Lowe or Vazquez and the Reds are trying to lower salary levels, why would they trade two players like Votto and Philipps, who made a combined $5 million last year. Vazquez makes $11.5 mil this year and Lowe makes $15 mil for each of the next three. How does this help the Reds lower payroll?

If y’all really think the Braves are going to trade either Tommy Hanson or Jair Jurrjens, you are sadly deluded, totally insane or just plain uninformed about the way baseball works these days. You do not trade young pitching that is a.that good and b. that cheap and c. for that long.

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
10:50 am

Lot of guys this morning are giddy about Votto. Why would Wren pursue him and jettison Freeman?

Freeman, once he arrives, will be cheaper and under team control longer than Votto. Freeman, if he lives up to billing, should have more pop in his bat than Votto.

Wren wants a righty power bat in the outfield. Think he wants a one-year fix at first (may be where arb comes in for LaRoche, but I’m not holding my breath). Or he picks up a Steve Pierce (Pirates) as a one season solution.

From everything I’m reading, Wren’s priorities remain unchanged. Re-up Hudson (done); use either Lowe, Vazquez or Kawakami as a cornerstone to obtain a righty power bat; make sure the bullpen has the arms to do the job.

Thrillhouse44

November 11th, 2009
10:51 am

Thrillhouse doesn’t even know how to react. Thrillhouse believes no one can pull off third person quite like JJS.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
10:52 am

Does anyone seriously believe that in any proposed deal for Adrian Gonzalez that the names Heyward, Jurrjens or Hanson would not be first and foremost on the Padres’ wish list? I’d rather give Roach his three year deal than give up any (or more than one) of those players for the difference between AG and ALR.

Tomahawk Talk

November 11th, 2009
10:52 am

ive said that it was stupid. no way they do it

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
10:53 am

‘Tis true, Thrillhouse.

Two JJS references in one day? Hope we’re not haunted by the ghost of a Ugandan journalist later…

Thrillhouse44

November 11th, 2009
10:53 am

Thrillhouse always believes if you’re going to do something, at least do it right:
TnBrian says for Gonzalez I wouldn’t go more than a Freeman, Medlen, Schafer deal.

TnBrian says for Gonzalez TnBrian wouldn’t go more than a Freeman, Medlen, Schafer deal.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
10:56 am

OH! The Humanity. We need one of LeTwan’s Mama’s pies today. It will help drive away the blue werms and Musk Oxen. migrating to Cordele.

Eric In Albany N.Y.

November 11th, 2009
10:57 am

How before we hear from the braves about this hudson contract? im so sick of waiting. he had the MRI already but did the insurance company have vets day off? whats the deal here?

oh and how funny is sammy sosa’s lightened skin! he can no longer speak english and he no longse has dark skin. google the pics they are strange!

and a “baba booey” to you all!

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
10:59 am

Jeff-

For the simple reason what I already said.

Proven talent is more valuable than unproven.

Lew-

While I agree with you, that would change our trade pieces. If the Reds are wanting cheap players, they’d want our close to ready or ML ready talent. I can see trading Phillips because of his salary spike for next year (my prediction: Mets), but I just can’t see trading Votto for another year, unless they believe his vertigo issues or whatever they were will come back again.

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
11:00 am

It would be sheer nuttiness to trade either Jurrjens or Hanson. Imagine Schuerholz having traded Glavine or Smoltz when they were youngsters for a power bat?

The 90s run was essentially powered by strong pitching and defense. Glavine, Smoltz and Maddux were th heart of those teams.

You don’t trade your very talented young arms; you build around them. Add Minor and Teheran to the mix and the Bravos could have the most formidable starting rotation in the majors in a couple of seasons.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
11:00 am

Happy Veteran’s Day to all of my brothers and sisters in the Armed Forces now and in the past. And a very special thank you to everyone who recognizes the importance of today.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
11:02 am

lew, if we are trading for phillips and votto, our trade pieces are definitely not limited to lowe and vazquez.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
11:03 am

P-Town-Yes, I can certainly see the Reds trading Phillips, especially with the escalating salary (though I think short of getting a supremely rich stash of players, they’d be damned fools to trade him), I just can’t see the Braves as being the team to give up that wealth of cheap talent when a. Phillips doesn’t fill our needs and b.doesn’t really jettison enough salary savings to fill said needs.

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
11:03 am

P-Town Brave… not against your reasoning. Just trying to look at it from Wren’s perspective.

I’m reading more and more that clubs are having budget concerns. Freeman, if he pans out, makes sense from a dollars and cents perspective. It’s a reasonable gamble that he’ll pan out. I think that’s where Wren is heading.

rammerjammer

November 11th, 2009
11:04 am

Mark Zuckerman in the Washington Times writes, “$18.5 million from last year’s payroll (is) no longer on the books. Surely the Nats can find a better way to spend that money, perhaps on a veteran starting pitcher.”

Lowe for Dunn?

Lew

November 11th, 2009
11:05 am

DAP-And who, exactly would you trade that’s cheap enough? Heyward? Hanson? Jurrjens? Freeman? Yes, but who else and that won’t be enough. Come on Dude, this one just ain’t happening. It is just not practical for either team.

TnBrian

November 11th, 2009
11:05 am

I still have a feeling about Ludwick. Even if the Cards can’t sign Holliday I believe they’ll trade for a bigger bat than Ludwick & use him in a trade for some pitching, maybe they like KK. Resign Adam & have an OF of Ludwick/Nate/Diaz is fine for all the pitching we have. The guy hit 37 HR in ‘08 & 22 last year which was a down year, I guess.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
11:06 am

That sounded a bit different than I intended. Freeman is the only one of that group I’d include in that proposed Reds’ deal.

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
11:06 am

Wren indicated yesterday that right-handed bat is obviously preferable, but they’re not excluding lefty possibilities. They just want to add a big bat, but would prefer right because they’re so lefty-leaning now.

Guys, really with the Votto talk? I’ll not believe he’s available until I hear that idea connected to someone from Cincinnati, rather than a guy who heard Reds are going to cut payroll and then drawing his own conclusions that Votto might be available.

Votto and Bruce are their two popular, cheap and productive players. Anyone but those two, I can see being trade. But not those two, and especially not Votto. If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly admit it later. But I don’t buy that rumor at all.

TnBrian

November 11th, 2009
11:07 am

Thrillhouse44, cool. You’re making me dizzy.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
11:09 am

Well, looks as though Billy Wagner may be out for the closers role.

The Red Sox are looking as though they will offer him arbitration (Type A) and even if he doesn’t accept, I don’t expect the Braves to want to forfeit draft picks for him.

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
11:10 am

TnBrian… I’ve thought that the Cards and Cubs might be good fits for Lowe. Now, I don’t know if the Cards are able/willing to take on the balance of Lowe’s contract, but move him over there for Ludwick.

The Cubs could do so, but I don’t know if there’s a fit.

Rock On......

November 11th, 2009
11:16 am

rammerjammer…..Dunn to replace LaRoche? I’ll take a flying pass. The Braves are looking for solid defense to go with the bat. Dunn does not possess such defense. He is perfect for the Nats or as a DH in the AL.

TnBrian

November 11th, 2009
11:19 am

Jeff R, looks like Ludwick is due for another 37 HR season in 2010. The games we played the Cards last year Ludwick wasn’t that impressive & he was protected by Pujols both in ‘08/’09. But I’d think if CJ & McCann are at their best than he oughta get plenty of pitches to drill. I’m all for not trading Javy & I can’t imagine Ludwick would require Javy after his very average ‘09 season.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
11:22 am

Currently listening to the Braves Show Talk Show from last night on my Touch…

Shanks just called the AJC the Atlanta Journal of Constipation…and he wonders why he couldn’t be a journalist any longer or why his show got cut in Macon…

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
11:23 am

TnBrian… Haven’t considered Ludwick’s contract, but I’ve got to believe that deal would be attractive to Wren if the money-end works out. Not sure the Cards want to carry Lowe for $15 million per year for the next three years. The team doesn’t have deep pockets.

BravesfaninWis

November 11th, 2009
11:24 am

LEW

I never said anything about trading Jurrgens for Votto. I would never want to see JJ leave as he is improving each year and has been great for us. I do agree with DOB though that this rumor is most likely just that. It doesn’t make sense for Cincy to trade Votto, but if we could get him for say Medlen, Freeman, and B. Jones, I would be alright with that.

McFann

My apologies, I thought Brad McCann was strictly a SS all the way. Thanks.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
11:25 am

My problems with Ludwick:

Only 2 HR v LHP last season

Only 5 HR after the Holliday trade meaning he should’ve gotten better pitches to hit.

Thrillhouse44

November 11th, 2009
11:25 am

You’re making me dizzy. TnBrian

Welcome to my world.

Smart move by the Sox to offer arb to Wags.

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
11:27 am

As mentioned earlier, because more teams are reporting budget constraints, I’m thinking that arbitration might be to LaRoche’s advantage. He’s not stepping into a free-spending market this winter. If the Braves offer arbitration – and I’m guessing they will – he may be smart to take it, put up some solid numbers and see what the market will bear in the winter of 2010.

O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
11:28 am

Guys,

Based on Jeff Schultz article about trading for Adrian Gonzalez, what do you think it would take to get him, and what would you be willing to trade?

The bad thing is he is only under contract for 2 more years, and then he could command $15 mil when he becomes a free agent. One good thing is Boras is not his agent, so maybe the Braves could work out an extension.

Would Freeman, Medlen, Schaffer, KJ, and another prospect be enough? Is it too much?

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
11:29 am

Going outside the box though after mentioning Ludwick, how about a Ludwick/Atkins combo at LF/1b?

Both are clutch hitters and RBI machines with RISP.

McLouth
Prado
Jones
Ludwick
McCann
Escobar
Atkins
Diaz

Although, there’s a guy I’m listening to right now that on this show that is saying he wants to sign Atkins for our bench, along with Craig Counsell.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
11:29 am

BravesfanisWis-Someone right before you mentioned him and I thought that was what you were responding to. Sorry if I misread you.

Doesn’t matter, though. There’s no one we have short of Hanson, Jurrjens and Heyward that would fit the bill for Cinci to dump salary and get a worthwhile return. My point ultimately was that any players we could trade them that would make the Reds want to do the trade, wouldn’t be worth it for us to lose, especially when you really don’t have Phillips filling an open need and unless the plan was to move Prado to LF (which I don’t agree with), it wouldn’t work for us.

rammerjammer

November 11th, 2009
11:30 am

Rock On…

I was thinking more of LF, a one-year commitment leading into the McLouth-Schafer-Heyward era in 2011.

Lew

November 11th, 2009
11:31 am

Not to mention, like DOB, Myself and Several Others have said-The Reds would be And Idiots to trade Votto and the deal ain’t happening.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
11:32 am

Also, remember that we then move Atkins to the 8-hole when Heyward comes up and is ready to replace Diaz in the lineup.

Think about that. Can you think of many 8-hitters in the league who have 20+ HR power?

RC

November 11th, 2009
11:32 am

Would Freeman, Medlen, Schaffer, KJ, and another prospect be enough? Is it too much?

Why even put KJ in there? For a team like the Padres, a $4.5 million player who is only a couple of years away from free agency isn’t exactly appealing. As for the rest of the proposal, I’d say it’s not enough from the Padres side, and too much from the Braves side. In other words, I don’t think the teams match up at all.

TnBrian

November 11th, 2009
11:34 am

Jeff R, doesn’t have to be Lowe in a deal, maybe the Cards would like KK & his contract better. Maybe the Braves can work on finiding a trading partner for Lowe for a while longer, like maybe even close to ST next year. Who knows, I know I don’t.

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
11:35 am

Meetings are wrapping up in next half-hour or so….

Anybody seen that movie The Goods with Jeremy Piven? Watched it late last night, and thought it was hilarious.

RC

November 11th, 2009
11:36 am

P-Town Brave,

I like the Atkins idea, am less enthusiastic about Ludwick. I really think either of those players would work as long as a bigger bat is acquired for the other position (LF if Atkins is acquired, 1b if Ludwick is). I know a lot of people think we should spread the available money over 2 positions, but I think that will lead to a similar result you got from the Braves last year. In my opinion, it’s best to get that one big bat to hit between Chipper and McCann, and then make a value pick for the 2nd bat in your lineup (such as a Atkins, Ludwick, or Nady).

DAP

November 11th, 2009
11:36 am

jeff rLot of guys this morning are giddy about Votto. Why would Wren pursue him and jettison Freeman?

Freeman, once he arrives, will be cheaper and under team control longer than Votto. Freeman, if he lives up to billing, should have more pop in his bat than Votto.

votto is an established major league player under team control for 4 more years. its going to be a long time before freeman can slug over .560 at the major league level, if he ever does it. no way free man will have more pop in his bat than votto. if you can get votto, you do it in a second and give them freeman. seriously. votto is one of the best young hitters in the game.

MFin04

November 11th, 2009
11:37 am

Front page of the AJC says Adrian Gonzalez? That deal would probably have to be huge, but it would definitely be a great deal.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
11:38 am

DOB-

Really? I didn’t go see it bc I heard it was terrible…A real good one though is Couple’s Retreat…Vince Vaughn is just great as usual!

Also, I just really have this feeling that Adam is not coming back at 1b so Garrett would be a great choice considering Chipper may be gone after 2010 and Garrett could move to 3b to accomodate Freeman.

Seems like a great plan to me…

Couch Tater

November 11th, 2009
11:38 am

why did she laugh?

CB,

Glad to see your wife saw the humor, as intended. Could you tell if it was the third-date giggle or the you can’t be serious, laugh?

Rob (from SC) no more arm brace

November 11th, 2009
11:39 am

Atkins will make around 7 million in ARB, only sign him if he is non tendered

Greg Olson Homers

November 11th, 2009
11:43 am

Ugh, I thought The Goods was utterly awful (no offense DOB). Halfway through the movie I realized I had seen all the funny parts on the previews already.

DOB, I watch Entourage and basically Piven (god love him) plays the exact same character on the Goods. Maybe that is why I didn’t like it.

Efrim

November 11th, 2009
11:43 am

If the Braves offer arbitration – and I’m guessing they will – he may be smart to take it, put up some solid numbers and see what the market will bear in the winter of 2010.

I think the only player they offer arb. too is Gonzalez.

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
11:45 am

P-Town Brave: You heard The Goods is terrible, but you say Couples Retreat is good, huh? Who are you getting your reviews from? Couples Retreat was one of the worst-reviewed movies of the year. I had planned to see it … until I read the near-unanimous scathing reviews.

Granted, The Goods wasn’t well-reviewed either. But at least some of the critics I follow really liked it. I couldn’t find one that had anything good to say about Couples Retreat.

Anyway, The Goods is over-the-top but quite funny. If you like Piven in Entourage, you’ll like him in this. Same character, basically.

Efrim

November 11th, 2009
11:46 am

If the Reds trade Votto, they aren’t going to want Freeman. Yonder Alonso being ready will be the only reason they would even consider dealing Votto, and I don’t even think they will. Didn’t the story say Phillips, Harang or Arroyo might be dealt because of payroll issues? Doesn’t Votto make the league minimum, or around that?

DAP

November 11th, 2009
11:46 am

lew if the braves were going to build a package for votto and phillips, wihch i agree with you they are not, they could include prado, freeman, schafer, medlin, kimbrel, hicks, johnson (cody), minor, bethancourt…and these are all very cheap promising players.

just saying lew, dont think all the braves have to trade is vazquez and lowe. if a chance comes up to get a guy like votto, they have prospects to deal…

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
11:46 am

I think they offer to Roachy as well, Efrim.

lavell12

November 11th, 2009
11:48 am

DOB

The Goods is pretty fun but no movie comes close to the Hangover in terms of comedy in 2009.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
11:51 am

Doesn’t Votto make the league minimum, or around that?

i think votto makes the minimum for one more year before his salary explodes in arbitration. so i can understand if the reds have a plan to build through the next several years why they might think trading him is a good idea…but even if that is the case, id wait one more year and trade before his first arbitration filing.

ToastyFire

November 11th, 2009
11:52 am

I’d shy away from Atkins. A clear case of a player that is a product of Coors. Career 892 OPS at home and 735 on the road. Now if he gets non-tendered I wouldn’t mind him as a bench player to replace Norton but he shouldn’t be starting imo.

Salamander

November 11th, 2009
11:55 am

I see Votto is the flavor of the today.

In your dreams blogizens.

ToastyFire

November 11th, 2009
11:56 am

DAP, if you had Votto would you trade him for those players listed? Votto is a stud and still years away from free agency. It would take someone like JJ, Hanson, or Heyward to pry him away from the Reds even if you took on a bad contract.

CB

November 11th, 2009
11:56 am

Couch Tater, it could have been where I was sitting when I was telling her about it.

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:00 pm

Buster Olney’s saying that other GMs are “expecting” the Braves to trade Vazquez.

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:02 pm

Who are you getting your reviews from?

Probably Bobby Cox.

BAMABRAVE

November 11th, 2009
12:03 pm

There is a talk on FoxSports.com that the Tigers may not be able to retain Fernando Rodney as a closer due to money restraints. It mentions the Braves as a possible destination. Thoughts?

DAP

November 11th, 2009
12:03 pm

toastyfireDAP, if you had Votto would you trade him for those players listed?

if i had him, and was looking to rebuild the team with a bunch of good minor league prospects, the guys i listed would be pretty good options. but, i would wait until votto was arbitration eligible to trade him.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:05 pm

I suspect Wren is floating some proposals to SD for Gonzalez, but I would be surprised if they pull the trigger.

Votto is a pipe dream…..we don’t match up. They only deal him for prospects AND a salary dump of one of their starting pitchers.

I thought Don was banished to an alternate universe? Is he Roberts brother? Twin?

Message to Buster Olney: Duh!

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:06 pm

DOB-

I “heard” the Goods was terrible. I “saw” Couple’s Retreat…thats how…duh! Pay attention! I also agree w/ Lavell…the only thing of recent memory I felt like came 1/10th close to The Hangover was What Happens in Vegas.

Rob-

Atkins will be non-tendered by Colorado. They’ve already moved on with Ian Stewart.

Toasty-

Look at the parks he played in though. Citizens, Dolphins, and Nationals are much more favorable than PETCO and At&t.

Steve-

My point is not the offering to LaRoche, BUT that he won’t take a 1-yr deal from the Braves when he’ll get 3 from someone in the market.

Jeffrey D -

Thanks! This means we’ll be keeping Vazquez then because anything Olney says isn’t believable. I was a little worried about that til now.

Whew! I think I covered enough of you with that one post.

TcD

November 11th, 2009
12:06 pm

BAS —
Just catching up on the overnite stuff during a boring con call — and here is my solution to your problem — get a couch with a recliner on one or both ends. They are great and take up no more room than a regular couch….

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:07 pm

Wayne-

I could see a 1% chance it would happen if the Braves would trade Lowe somewhere else AND agree to take on Cordero’s contract to be our closer with Votto.

I still say nothing gets him though…

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:09 pm

I still really like Atkins for 1b though…

Solid glove and his hitting will be back in 2010. And he never did regress on his ability to hit w/ RISP or in the clutch, and the Braves need another hitter like that…

More so than that, it gives ability to bring in a higher priced LF to hit cleanup.

That and, can you give me a lineup better than one that would have Atkins hitting 8th in June?

Couch Tater

November 11th, 2009
12:10 pm

I can’t see Castellini signing off on any Votto deal. I could see either Harang or Cordero getting moved to open up salary. But Castellini knows that fans are out of patience. I don’t see him gutting the club to balance the books for 2010. Remember, Arroyo and Harang are in the last year of their contract. -John Fay, Cincinnati Enquirer
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
12:12 pm

Oh no, Roachy won’t accept, but at least we’ll recoup a draft pick for him is my point…

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:13 pm

Griffey just signed with Seattle again. Make sure we keep DOB and Hudson in different rooms.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
12:14 pm

GboroBravo

November 11th, 2009
12:14 pm

DOB saw The Goods, possibly one of the worst movies I have ever seen. I do like him in Entourage, but the Goods was just terrible.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:15 pm

Steve/Efrim

And if he did accept, that wouldn’t be all bad either. Would he bet a year to see if two things might happen: Freeman falls on his face, or LaRoche puts up more consistent numbers in 2010 so as to make his 2010 free agency more valuable?

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
12:16 pm

Hudson announcement now seems likely to happen Wednesday, Thursday, not today. Hudson is traveling (he’s doing a bunch of other players’ charity events this winter in addition to holding his own such event) and Wren and his top assistants, plus Roger McDowell and new minor league pitching coordinator Dave Wallace, are all flying to Arizona this afternoon, so it’s likely they’ll wait until tomorrow to announce the Hudson thing.

Daybed Wagmoe

November 11th, 2009
12:17 pm

Buster Olney’s saying that other GMs are “expecting” the Braves to trade Vazquez.

I saw this on Buster’s video blog today also. There were also many reporters “expecting” the Padres to trade Peavy last offseason, and that didn’t happen. There were plenty of reporters “expecting” the Braves to trade for Peavy, saying that it was only a matter of time and it made too much sense for both sides.

I hope that we get nothing less than the best bat on the market for Vazquez. Anything short of a 30-HR, power-hitting corner OF or 1B is unacceptable.

I know that Pujols isn’t a likely target as St. Louis isn’t likely to trade him, but I’d love to see the Braves go after him, even if they’d have him under contract for only 2 years. After Wainwright and Carpenter, their rotation is rather mediocre, and landing Vazquez could help them fill it out. We could throw a couple of highly-rated prospects in there too.

On second thought, that sounds like another Teixeira-type trade that would come back to bite us in the long run.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:17 pm

Mitchie

Thanks for your service, and for all the other vets out there!

Junior resigns! Seattle is a glutton for punishment, I guess. Was it a club friendly contract?

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
12:18 pm

Votto is a pipe dream…..we don’t match up. — Wayne

Votto is a pipe dream for any team — because they’re not trading him.

P-Town Bravo: “Pay attention?” To someone who loved Couples Retreat? Nah.

Eavesdropper

November 11th, 2009
12:20 pm

Folks,please ignore Jeff Schmuck,He has absolutely no Baseball acumen!

Mailman

November 11th, 2009
12:21 pm

DOB today is Wednesday.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
12:21 pm

Wayne,

Thanks, dude. Happy Vets day to you and your son.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:21 pm

Daybed

Cardinals would be crazy to trade Pujols, unless they knew some unfavorable news was about to be released, and even then you would have to include Heyward or Hanson, or both to get him.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:24 pm

Mitchie

Back in my day, anybody who got a primo assignment (Hawaii, California, etc) was said to be on the Thule Greenland wait list.

Watch out!

:-)

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
12:25 pm

By the way, not to belabor the point, because I don’t think The Goods is any all-time classic comedy or anything (I just said it’s very funny and worth seeing if you’re into Piven’s Entourage-style humor), but just so no one’s scared off by the words of, say, our regular above who liked Couples Retreat, here’s the first paragraph of the review of The Goods from Roger Ebert:

by Roger Ebert

‘The Goods: Live Hard, Sell Hard” is a cheerfully energetically and very vulgar comedy. If you’re okay with that, you may be okay with this film, which contains a lot of laughs and has studied Political Correctness only enough to make a list of groups to offend. It takes place after a failing car dealer calls in a hired gun and his team to move goods off the lot over the Fourth of July.

He said it better than I could. And I concur.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:26 pm

DOB-

Oh, I forgot…you’re too “good” for that…

BTW, if you get the chance, tune in to ESPN Classic at 5pm Sunday.

They’re showing the Kansas tournament game from 2006 :)

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:29 pm

Haven’t seen a movie in a long time. We normally go to the movies on Thanksgiving night. Anything good out there now, or coming in the next few weeks. (no R rated recommendations necessary, I don’t watch R movies)

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
12:30 pm

Wayne,

I know! I am worried about where my next assignment may be. Probably taking weather observations in Siberia…

Most likely Ill head back out on a ship. Which is fine with me.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:31 pm

Freeman, once he arrives, will be cheaper and under team control longer than Votto. Freeman, if he lives up to billing, should have more pop in his bat than Votto.

Ok, don’t be ridiculous. Votto is a proven major leaguer who is still really cheap. Freeman is a good prospect who struggled in AA. I’m as big a prospect hugger around, but let’s don’t start continue with the crazy talk.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:31 pm

Wayne-

If thats the case, you’ll want to go see Old Dogs with Robin Williams, John Travolta, and Seth Green. That comes out then and looks like a hit.

Regardless of what he says, I know my movies.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:32 pm

Roman Gal-

Thank you. I pretty well stated as much earlier.

Proven Talent > Unproven Talent

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:32 pm

What was the old saying….”Join the Navy and see the world!…..thru a porthole”

At the time, I joined the AF because I didn’t think I would like to be on a ship, but looking back, I could have been wrong??

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
12:33 pm

lavell12: No doubt, The Hangover is on another level entirely. One of the funniest movies in years. And so is Zombieland, the second-funniest movie I saw this year and one of my 10 or so favorite movies of the year along with The Hangover.

Willie Montanez

November 11th, 2009
12:34 pm

I think the only player they offer arb. too is Gonzalez.

They’ll offer arb to LaRoche. Bank on it. They’d love nothing more than to wrap him up on a one year commitment… otherwise, they’ll take the pick…

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
12:34 pm

I meant to day Thursday for Hudson announcement, not Wednesday. Days blend together when holed up in the basement media workroom of an airport hotel, or standing around a crowded lobby with 40 other reporters waiting for morsels of news.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:34 pm

If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly admit it later. DOB

If you can gladly admit you’re wrong, you must be a saint. I don’t know about y’all, but when I’m wrong, I start making fun of other people. And I’m most certainly not glad to admit that I’m wrong…98.6% of the time anyways.

Braveheart

November 11th, 2009
12:35 pm

Why isn’t Buster Olney believable? That’s ridiculous to me. He talks to a million folks involved in the sport, reads a million articles a day it seems, and he reports what’s being said. When you say you don’t believe what he reports what you’re saying is you don’t believe what the folks in baseball are telling him or what those writers he cites are writing about (usually based upon information those writers gained from talking to other folks in baseball). It’s not really a believability issue with Olney himself. All he does is report. The believability you’re taking him to task for is better aimed at the folks who told him the information he reported. Or do you believe Buster doesn’t talk to all those people and doesn’t really read those articles and doesn’t really accurately relay the information he’s told and that he reads? If so, that’s where you take his credibility to task. I don’t believe that to be the case with Buster.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
12:36 pm

RG

Yeah, we can get a little crazy with our prospect hugging. If an opportunity comes along to get a proven major league talent (not just an average player, but above average), then I think you have to entertain dealing your prospect and taking the proven guy.

BUT, I wouldn’t go out looking for proven top drawer young talent, if I had a prospect that I realistically thought would have a chance to be above average in a year or two.

Does that make sense?

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:36 pm

I expect arb. to be offered to both LaRoche and Gonzo. I expect them to let Soriano walk and tell Kelly and Church to walk if they can’t trade them for scraps first.

The Vazquez extension is a HUGE piece because if they can extend him, I expect Lowe to be gone ASAP.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:37 pm

I pretty well stated as much earlier.

I suppose a good point can never be made too many times. Wait…nevermind. That’ll just open up a whole nother can of worms. Sorry, P-Town, I should’ve read the blog more thoroughly. You’ll just have to remember that I’m part of the ADD generation…that’s my excuse anyways.

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:40 pm

Yeah, we can get a little crazy with our prospect hugging

Unless that prospect is JoJo Reyes.

Phil Karns

November 11th, 2009
12:41 pm

The Hangover really wasn’t that funny. A funny movie needs funny dialogue, with a lot of one-liners that people use for years to come. The Hangover was a series of events taking place that were somewhat humorous, but not laugh-out-loud funny by any mean. Really funny comedies have been few and far between for a long time because the dialogue just isn’t there. Old School is the last one that comes to mind.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:42 pm

Does that make sense? Wayne

It sure does and I agree. It’s the same thing with Hanson and Peavy last year. Granted, the Padres probably wanted Hanson + about half of our farm for Peavy, but honestly I’m not entirely opposed to dealing Freeman if the right deal came along. I certainly think that Votto (not that I’m saying he’s available) is someone that I would trade Freeman for. And when Frank Wren calls to ask me my opinion, I’ll tell him. Wait! Today’s “talk in third person day,” isn’t it? I should say….When Frank Wren calls Roman Gal to ask for Roman Gal’s opinion, Roman Gal will tell him what exactly Roman Gal thinks about Roman Gal’s ideas.

Yep. Much better.

Soph

November 11th, 2009
12:42 pm

JoJo could use a hug too…

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
12:43 pm

Heyward probably won’t play winter ball; not definite yet, but not likely. He’s healing fine from low-back strain, but they don’t really want to have him rush to get back and play winter ball after playing so little in past two months.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:44 pm

Unless that prospect is JoJo Reyes.

Someone is bound to flip out if/when he’s traded or let go. Jo-Jo just needs a healthy dose of Change of Scenery.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:47 pm

I noticed the AJC changed their logo. I don’t think I like it better than the old one. I wish I could remember which type they used for the old “ajc” in the little blue circle, but the new “ajc” looks different. Maybe it’s just because the blue is darker now.

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:47 pm

JoJo could use a hug too…

Just saying…his name comes up in a lot of the ridiculous trade proposals. Jurrjens is the greatest pitcher in the history of baseball and no offer would ever be good enough for him. But with Jojo, it’s more like “he’s really good, I promise! This oughta up that offer. Sucker….”

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:47 pm

Just heard someone mention signing Figgins and moving Chipper to 1b…

Like Chipper’s ego would EVER let that happen!

Sadly I am in full agreement with these guys as in his regression at 3b is killing the team AND he in reality should be batting 6th.

Bob Griese

November 11th, 2009
12:47 pm

Gordo JoJo needs to lay off the tacos and burritos, and mix in a salad or two.

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:48 pm

Hey, new logo. Oh, Roman Gal beat me to it.

Didn’t they just change it? Or is my sense of time way off again?

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:48 pm

Roman Gal-

Funny you say that because I actually have ADD.

DOB-

Did I mention watching that Kansas/Bradley game on Sunday?

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:50 pm

Funny you say that because I actually have ADD.

Dang…well, I guess I won’t get any sympathy from you. I’ll have to think of another excuse. Just give me a little while….

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
12:50 pm

Hey Wayne,
I dont know, I think I got around so far here is a list of some port visits I have gotten over the years…

Kyoto, Japan…Shimoda, Japan…Muroran, Japan…Sapporo, Japan…Nagoya, Japan…Sasebo, Japan (2)…Okinawa, Japan (3)…Tokyo, Japan…Pusan, South Korea (4)…Chinhae, South Korea (4)…Pyongtaek, South Korea…Manila, Philippines…Subic Bay, Philippines(2)…Guam (2)…Saipan…Hong Kong, China (3)…Zhanjiang, China…Shanghai, China…Goa, India…Phuket, Thailand…Pattaya Beach, Thailand…Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (2)…Singapore, Singapore (3)…Colombo, Sri Lanka…
Cairns, Australia…Townsville, Australia…Sydney,Australia(2)…Brisbane, Australia(2)…Noumea, New Caledonia…Vladivostok, Russia…Pearl Harbor, HI…Kauai, HI

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
12:51 pm

Oh and for Random…

EVERY guy on this radio show I’m listening to talk about the Braves says its not even worth acquiring a leadoff hitter or base stealer til Bobby leaves because Bobby doesn’t play ABC baseball and steal any bases.

So apparently I’m not the only one…

Soph

November 11th, 2009
12:52 pm

I think they updated the logo a few days ago. I noticed it yesterday.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
12:52 pm

There’s others that I have forgotten…some I cant tell you… ;)

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:52 pm

Didn’t they just change it?

It’s been that way for a couple of days. I’m just slow to post my thoughts, I suppose.

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:53 pm

I’ll have to think of another excuse. Just give me a little while….

Francoeur? The economy? KJ? Schafer’s ears?

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
12:54 pm

EVERY guy on this radio show I’m listening to talk about the Braves says its not even worth acquiring a leadoff hitter or base stealer til Bobby leaves because Bobby doesn’t play ABC baseball and steal any bases.

Sigh.

Braveheart

November 11th, 2009
12:54 pm

Whatever happened to ADD? Seems like everyone gets diagnosed as ADHD these days.

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
12:55 pm

Whatever happened to ADD? Seems like everyone gets diagnosed as ADHD these days.

Apparently you haven’t been reading the case files of Dr. Paul Lentz…

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:55 pm

It’s been that way for a couple of days

Oh has it? I hadn’t noticed. But what I meant was it seems like they just redid the logo a couple months ago.

Soph

November 11th, 2009
12:55 pm

Schafer’s ears?

Uh oh. Someone hold her back.

RobU

November 11th, 2009
12:55 pm

The Goods was pretty good, but Piven is so great in Entourage that any role he does is going to have a hard time living up to it.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:56 pm

Schafer’s ears?

That’s not an excuse. Schafer’s ears are one of the 7 Modern Wonders of the World. Wait…that doesn’t help my case either.

jeffrey d

November 11th, 2009
12:57 pm

What? It’s a good reason.

“I couldn’t catch up on old blog postings because Schafer’s ears are so big.”

I’ve seen worse logic on here.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
12:58 pm

Whatever happened to ADD? Seems like everyone gets diagnosed as ADHD these days.

Kids these days…they can’t even get diagnosed with the right disorders.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
1:00 pm

I’ve seen worse logic on here.

Like…”Oh, where’s jeffreyd?”
“He’s probably laying on the side of a street somewhere after Roman Gal got to him.”
“Why is that?”
“Because he started talking about Schafer’s ears!”

…Wait, that’s good logic.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
1:00 pm

Roman Gal and jeffrey d

I have long been one of the “Reyes” fools, I guess. I have seen a myriad of lefthanders with “stuff” let go, only to emerge later in another program and do well.

And that doesn’t necessarily mean ONLY lefties.

Chris Carpenter was a late bloomer. (I looked up about 6-8 of them once, but right now, I can’t remember all of them)

While it will not break my heart if JoJo is dealt or released, I am still watching for signs that he “gets it”. If we can salt him away in AAA for a couple of more years, who knows?

I take some encouragement from half his starts in 2008, which were good to great. Of course, the other half of his starts, he sucked, but that is another story……

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
1:00 pm

I’m saying “wait” a lot today. What’s a good synonym for “wait”?

AdirondackDave

November 11th, 2009
1:01 pm

This Hudson signing is beginning to sound like the Generalissimo Franco saga.

Soph

November 11th, 2009
1:01 pm

I’ve seen worse logic on here.

I won’t argue with you there. Soooo true.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
1:02 pm

Soph

November 11th, 2009
1:03 pm

lol I was going to say hold your horses but halt works.

Braveheart

November 11th, 2009
1:03 pm

Yeah, RG, ADD was just too analog for these kids. Needed to upgrade to ADHD.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
1:04 pm

If we can salt him away in AAA for a couple of more years, who knows?

I’m pretty sure he’s out of options now. I don’t know if they plan on sticking him in the bullpen or what this year. Who knows where Jo-Jo’s gonna go-go.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
1:07 pm

Braveheart-

I have ADD.

Minus the H because I’m simply the most laid back and least hyperactive person you’d ever meet, well, unless you see me on the ball field…then I play, well, think some combination of Marcus Giles, David Eckstein, and Aaron Rowand.

Gets difficult occasionally, especially considering my job requires me to constantly multi-task.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
1:08 pm

But hey, right now I’m blogging, listening to a podcast, and working on a case report on my other monitor. :)

So I guess I’m doin a-ok today.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
1:08 pm

ADD was just too analog for these kids.

First slide rules and now this…

Greg Olson Homers

November 11th, 2009
1:10 pm

I will say, female member of Piven’s sales team was hilarious. Just said the most outrageous things you arent expecting.

Roman Gal

November 11th, 2009
1:10 pm

Next thing you know, Weejuns will be going out of style and we’ll be giving eulogies at Barbie’s funeral.

Random

November 11th, 2009
1:19 pm

Bay Area Steve (November 10th, 2009 1:51 pm): “Braveheart’s line was funny. A bit insensitive perhaps, but to single out that line is to weigh political correctness over funny. We know the source, we know there is no harmful intent, funny wins.”

Maybe so — à chacun son goût. No qualification at all would be required had I known for sure that it was meant in jest. That’s why I was pining for a possibly omitted emoticon.

“And, knowing your content here, is it possible you singled the line out because he disagrees with your KK position? For me, certainly not sayin’ dude’ll be traded. But, 100% won’t be? Seems unknowable.”

Nah — of course I could be wrong about Kawakami. It’s probly* quite likely.

But I won’t be taking personally all the guff and stuff I’m sure to get in that event, so why should I in advance?

What I was taking umbrage to was the trivialization of Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Ever been to either of those cities?

But that veers too closely to politics, so I was willing to just drop it. Until you brought it up again.

It’s over now, I hope.

PS: I also ignored this comment. Are you sure you want to be numbered in his company?

* I prefer “probly” to “prolly”. It takes a truly slackmouthed adolescent to be unable to pronounce at least one of the “b”s. ;)

bravito199

November 11th, 2009
1:19 pm

How about JJ for Billy Butler and Mike Moustakas

dmack2027

November 11th, 2009
1:19 pm

One reason the Reds could move Votto is that Yonder Alonso is blocked at 1B in the minors. His bat is probably getting close, so they might feel they could move Votto without a serious drop in production.

Plus, they should collect a number of nice prospects dealing such a young and inexpensive player.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
1:20 pm

Mitchie

Spent 3 glorious weeks on TDY on Okinawa back in 1977. Got to see a blackbird land, and was quickly escorted to the hanger. That was the highlight of my trip!

On the way over, we stayed in Hawaii one night, and Guam one night. Winds were too strong to land at our normal refueling stop, so we got diverted to Kwajalein AB for fuel. Stayed there about 2 hours. Gilligans Island! Big victory for us in WWII.

BravesfaninWis

November 11th, 2009
1:22 pm

LEW

No problem man, and I totally get what you are saying about Votto. Words get confused around here sometimes, and I hope I didn’t come off as a jerk.

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
1:24 pm

I prefer “probly” to “prolly”. It takes a truly slackmouthed adolescent to be unable to pronounce at least one of the “b”s.

Thank you! I can’t stand people who say “prolly.” Or those idiots who can’t distinguish between “your” and “you’re.”

DiamondJim

November 11th, 2009
1:25 pm

Wayne in Utah: “Got to see a blackbird land” – even better, got to see the Blackbird takeoff at Mildenhall, England – that is really awesome. Also got to watch the Concorde touch and go for about an hour at Prestwick, Scotland. Awesome planes.

Daslied

November 11th, 2009
1:31 pm

Who else agrees that any team that gives Figgins $10MM per over several years will regret it rather quickly?

Logan

November 11th, 2009
1:32 pm

End Times sports reporter Nostra Dames predicted the Braves will finalize a new contract with Tim Hudson. It’s just a matter of time.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
1:33 pm

Our next Tommy Hanson is only 18 yrs.old

Signed: Columbia, 2007. .
Background: The Braves signed Teheran for $850,000, the largest bonus given to a pitcher on the international market in 2007. After pitching sparingly in 2008 because of shoulder tendinitis, Teheran returned to the Rookie-level Appalachian League last summer and ranked as the loop’s top prospect.

Strengths: Teheran throws easy heat with plus command and mound presence beyond his years. His fastball resides at 92-96 mph and holds its velocity throughout the game. His sharp, mid-70s curveball has good depth and can be a plus pitch, particularly after he tightened its spin. His 79-82 mph changeup is also an above-average pitch at times, with depth, fade and screwball-like movement. He has impressive poise that some scouts believe borders on cockiness.

Weaknesses: Teheran is still learning how to pitch. His physical stamina needs some work, and scouts have some concerns about his mechanics, which aren’t effortless. He has a long arm rotation in the back of his herky-jerky delivery that creates deception but attracts questions about his durability.

The Future: Teheran has all the ingredients to develop into a frontline starter. He’s expected to return to low Class A Rome to open the 2010 slate. While the Braves will be cautious due to his youth and lack of physical maturity, Teheran could accelerate his timetable.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
1:34 pm

DOB
I guess Piven recovered from his mercury poisoning. I read that he is a huge a-hole in real life but he is quite funny.

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
1:35 pm

Daslied–me! I do!

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
1:36 pm

Daslied-

I don’t. He was ranked as one of the very best defensive 3b in all of baseball and can play multiple positions which allows a team some flexibility over the length of his contract. He can’t hit for power, but he will get his doubles and triples, and even if he doesn’t he turns them into doubles with stolen bases.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
1:37 pm

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t feel that many players are worth 10M/season but he is worth a good multi year deal and that apparently is what the going rate is at.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
1:37 pm

next B-Mac ??

Background: Bethancourt starred for Panama at the 2004 Little League World Series, and four years later he signed with the Braves for $600,000 as the top catching talent on the international market. In his U.S. debut last season, he ranked as the No. 1 prospect in the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League and helped Danville win the Appalachian League title.

Strengths: Bethancourt stands out with his skills and presence behind the plate. He has soft hands, plus-plus arm strength and a quick release. His pop times to second have registered as low at 1.78 seconds, and he threw out 30 percent of basestealers in 2009. He swings the bat well with a short stroke and is expected to hit for some power as his body matures and he gains experience.

Weaknesses: While the raw abilities are obvious, Bethancourt is somewhat rough on the finer aspects of catching. He can improve his lateral movement and ability to block balls in the dirt. He’s a free swinger who needs to gain better command of the strike zone. He’s athletic for a catcher but a below-average runner.

The Future: With his ideal frame and leadership abilities, Bethancourt could develop into a special player. At 18, he’ll be one of the younger players in the low Class A South Atlantic League in 2010.

2009 Club (Class) AVG OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
GCL Braves (R) .284 .344 .431 116 22 33 9 1 2 19 11 22 7
Danville (R) .260 .339 .480 50 10 13 5 0 2 8 6 16 1

Daslied

November 11th, 2009
1:38 pm

There should be a law stating that if Jeremy Piven continues to rehash the “PCU” character*, he should also have to keep the same hairline.

*Insert Piven-portrayed character, as they’re all the same.

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
1:38 pm

Diamond Jim

I live in the shadows of Hill AFB, in Utah, and we get the F16 flyovers quite frequently. When I was at Keesler AFB, the C-130’s landed at all hours of the night, and I kinda got used to having planes around. At Travis AFB, it was the site of the huge C-5’s lumbering across the sky. Lived in the glide path of Houston International for 3 years.

Love them planes!

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
1:39 pm

Who here thinks that Russel Branyan’s monster homerun year was just a fluke?

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
1:41 pm

I think Figgins might be worth more along the lines of 7-8 million per year, for 3-4 years max.

DiamondJim

November 11th, 2009
1:41 pm

Wayne – I flew as Loadmaster on the C-141B for 22 years in the AF Reserves in Charleston, SC. Over 10,000 hours in the air. Sometimes I miss flying, but other times, no. Got to be too much like active duty – too much BS!

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
1:43 pm

Here’s another off the wall idea.

Would anyone trade Lowe for Mat Gamel and a Carlos Villanueva?

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
1:44 pm

Here’s another one to just simply eliminate his salary:

Lowe for Hoffpauir (or Fox) and Samardzjia

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
1:44 pm

I suppose I should qualify that with saying that the team will be disappointed with him offensively (overall). Dude has been an average-ish overall offensive player over his career. Does play good D at 3B, but do teams really want to trade so-so offense for good D at third base in lieu of the converse? I’m not as impressed by his versatility as some because according to UZR, he’s below-average defensively at all 3 OF spots, 2B and SS. Given that, especially if his signing team plans to play him at one of those spots, is he worth it? Average offense and below-average D? Do stolen bases really mean that much to you?

If he plays at 3B, he might be worth 10MM/year. He might.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
1:45 pm

P-Town, and what would we do with Villanueva?

Daslied

November 11th, 2009
1:45 pm

P-Town, I lump him in with Marlon Byrd, Marco Scutaro and Russell Branyan – guys over 30 coming off career years. I smell a bit of Gary Matthews, Jr. on the lot of them.

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
1:45 pm

Wayne–that would probably be a good deal for a team that has needs that Figgins fits.

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
1:46 pm

Remember that just last year, Figgins slugged a Gregor Blanco-esqe .318.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
1:48 pm

Wayne,
Very cool. There is a BlackBird at the Air Force Armament Museum back home in Florida. I have never seen one fly.

One of the coolest things I have ever seen was when I was like 13 or 14, my dad checked me out of school to go to Eglin AFB where he worked. He didnt tell me why the whole time. We parked the car across the street from the runway and about 15 minutes later, the Space Shuttle being piggy-backed on a 747 came in and landed.
By far one of the coolest things I have ever seen.
http://www.altushs1965.com/space_shuttle_discovery,altusafb,20050819/shuttle_discovery,altusafb,ok,20050819-2,piggyback,right-side2.jpg

Daslied

November 11th, 2009
1:48 pm

Oh, and P-Town? Any trade that can rid Lowe’s $45MM is fine with me. I should clarify that I like the guy, and won’t be sad if he stays. But I’d rather that cash go to someone like Holliday.

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
1:49 pm

Someone give BAS a medal for that performance last night.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
1:50 pm

Daslied-

I feel the same way. I’d rather trade Kawakami myself, but I know that the quickest way to a Bay or Holliday is to get rid of Lowe’s contract.

I like Lowe and think he will do alright next year, BUT I’m just not sure we get to where we want to be with him in Atlanta next year.

I could be wrong, and thats whats so great about this time of year…well, that and college basketball :)

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
1:51 pm

Someone should give BAS’s liver a medal for withstanding that performance last night…

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
1:53 pm

Here’s another interesting thought brought up:

Would you rather go out and get the big signing (ie Holliday or Bay) OR get a few pieces and build the best possible 25 man roster you can without making a big splash?

Crazy Trades McKnee

November 11th, 2009
1:55 pm

Joey Votto. Enough said.

O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
1:55 pm

DOB,

For what its worth, I saw “Law abiding citizen” (with Jamie Foxx) yesterday, and I enjoyed it.

I hope Wren is able to trade Lowe, but with his contract, his age, and the kind of year he had, who would want to trade a 25-30 HR outfielder or first baseman for him?

Thats why as much I would prefer to keep Vazquez, the reality is he is our most valuable trade piece, so I will not be surprised or angry if he gets traded. The key will be what did we get in return.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
2:00 pm

I stand by my prediction that both Lowe and Vazquez will be traded!

tr

November 11th, 2009
2:00 pm

beekay @ 1:37

A friend who works with the Braves as a trainer watched him play most of the season and says it won’t be long before he’s mlb-ready. Studly, for sure!

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
2:02 pm

Mitchie-san, no way on earth they trade both, not happening, and I would be willing to bet on it.

N8

November 11th, 2009
2:05 pm

I think a guy like Jo-Jo can still be a commodity for this team. Now, do I think he’ll ever be anything more than a 5th starter, or a long man/spot starter? More than likely not.

But he’s cheap, under control and literally has zero trade value. Why not keep him?

There are guys you build your franchise around (Hanson) and are willing to trade guys or not call up guys (Glavine) in order to make space for them on your 25 man roster. Truly special guys.

Then there are guys that just simply take longer to develope and you might only get 1 or 2 years out of them, and that may not be until they’ve spent 3, 4 or even 5 years in the minors.

Look at a guy like Buddy Carlisle or Campillo? Or in years past, Pete Smith or Mike Bileki (sp?).

Who’s to say that Jo-Jo doesn’t spend most of 2010 in the minors with a few callups in emergency situations, and then has an adequate season in 2011 as the 5th starter?

If you can’t get any value in a trade for a guy, you might as well hang on to them on the chance that they can help you out in any capacity down the road.

Superstars sell tickets and set the foundation for sustained winning. Role players (like utility guys, bench guys, 4th outfielders, 5th starters and middle relievers) are the unsung heros on championship teams. Having strong role players is seperates the good teams from the elite teams.

The hardest part of a GM/Manager is determining who is a star in the making and a guy destined to be a role player. If Wren were to force Jo-Jo into the 5th spot of the rotation Jo-Jo’s results may be much worse than if he was coming in out of the pen and getting the occasional injury start or starting the 2nd game of a double-header.

Wren and the Braves don’t need to give up on a guy like Jo-Jo, they just might need to give up on him ever being the impact starter they thought he could be a few years ago.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
2:06 pm

Ok, so in this two hour radio show I’ve listened to, they’ve talked about the following players:

Dye
Guererro
Cameron
Nady
Atkins
LaRoche
Wagner
Bay
Figgins

Funny I not once heard Holliday’s name.

How would you rank these players?

Scuba Steve

November 11th, 2009
2:10 pm

DOB…Joan from Mad Men looks like my wife…love them red heads!

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
2:11 pm

O.J.
I am not willing to bet. But, what GM wouldnt want to clear 45 mil in payroll and trade for a stud outfielder whle still having a solid rotation?

Steve from OH

November 11th, 2009
2:12 pm

Would you rather go out and get the big signing (ie Holliday or Bay) OR get a few pieces and build the best possible 25 man roster you can without making a big splash?

Depends how many players you are away from contending.

8)

(In our case, I’m thinking “big splash”)

Random

November 11th, 2009
2:15 pm

P-Town Brave (November 11th, 2009 12:51 pm): “EVERY guy on this radio show I’m listening to talk about the Braves says its not even worth acquiring a leadoff hitter or base stealer til Bobby leaves because Bobby doesn’t play ABC baseball and steal any bases.

“So apparently I’m not the only one…”

No, the sturdy common sense of ignorance and prejudice is unfortunately not unique to you.

By the way, I never saw your response to this comment of mine on the first page of this blog.

Perhaps these excerpts will refresh your memory:

I’ll ask you again — What is the most significant difference between all those different Bobby Cox teams (ie, the five who averaged 142+ SBs per season and the five who averaged 60 SBs per season)? The roster.

What is the one constant between all those different Bobby Cox teams? Bobby Cox.

You would have to be a true igmo to simply say that “Bobby doesn’t run!”

If Cox has basestealers on base, he’ll let them steal bases. Otherwise, not.

It’s that simple

But now what you’re saying is that “Bobby doesn’t run NOW! Its as simple as that.” And you offer as evidence ‘01, ‘03, ‘06-’09.

But it’s still not that simple. Not at all.

Let’s go over the Braves’ five seasons under Cox with the most SBs and five seasons with the least SBs, and compare rosters.

[Raw data omitted here, but available at the linked comment.]

Okay, so tell me now — who on the past half dozen Braves rosters could compare to Otis Nixon, Ron Gant, Deion Sanders or even Reggie Sanders as far as stealing bases? Furcal? Who else? Who all has Cox kept leashed on the base paths in the last six or so years? Who this season did Cox not allow to steal bases who was able to?

Who has Cox had on his roster the last half dozen years or so who had the base stealing capabilities of even Quilvio Veras, Marcus Giles, Brian Jordan or Jeff Blauser?

Cox uses the players he’s given to the best of their abilities. Those abilities of late have not included base-stealing for the most part.

It’s as simple as that.

Oh, and as to your implied assertion that the Braves need to run more, I offer the following:

In the Braves’ five highest stolen base seasons under Cox, when they averaged 142+ SBs per season, only twice did they manage to score 800 runs (averaging ~770 Runs per season).

In the Braves’ five lowest stolen base seasons under Cox, when they averaged only 60 SBs per season, only twice did they fail to score 800 runs (averaging 810+ Runs per season).

Did you get that, space boy? For five seasons, an average of 142+ SBs led to an average of 770- runs. For another five seasons, an average of 60 SBs led to an average of 810+ runs.

And if it’s really your contention that “Bobby doesn’t run NOW!” (as opposed to ‘91-’00), why did you so conveniently omit ’02, ’04 and ’05, when the Braves stole 76, 86 and 92 bases? Didn’t fit your curve, hmmmmm?

You should start paying attention better, don’t you think? Instead of manipulating data to fit your sturdy common sense.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
2:15 pm

tr
He is awful young but just goes to show that our farm is pretty loaded. We gave up alot for Tex but we still got alot more in the wings

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
2:17 pm

How would you have a solid rotation if you got rid of Lowe AND Vazquez?? You would have Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Kawakami and Medlen?

Daslied

November 11th, 2009
2:17 pm

Big splash for me, too. You don’t need to improve over Escobar, McCann, Chipper and Prado. Diaz, McLouth and Heyward (whenever he comes up) are fine choices. Can’t beat the pitchers. Bench is pretty good. The glaring holes are 1B and one OF spot, so go for broke.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
2:18 pm

N8
JoJo and Brandon Jones seem to be your typical AAAA players. Guys solid in AAA but never cut it in the bigs. I agree that we should hold on to him unless a team like the Nats or Royals who look for cheap starters would be willing to give us someone useful.

Daslied

November 11th, 2009
2:19 pm

OJ, that 1-4 is pretty outstanding. They could throw any warm body out at #5 and be fine. :)

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
2:22 pm

Random,

Do you remember what blog it was on that you were arguing with someone who thought it would be beneficial for Lowe for him to re-structure his contract to something like 4/40? That was one of the funnier arguments on the blog.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
2:25 pm

I dont get it. Some people are ok trading Vazquez and keeping Lowe. With the year that Lowe had (mediocre), he could easily be replaced. If you can get someone to take his contract, you can easily trade or sign a pitcher who can do better than 100 srikeouts and an ERA near 5.00.
Stop thinking the rotation will be decimated if they both leave. It wont. Vazquez can get us the outfielder we desparatly need and Lowe leaving will clear so much payroll we can sign a free agent or two.

JJ, Hanson, Hudson, New guy, Kawakami/Medlin will do just fine. That rotation with a revamped offense, the Braves would be a serious contender.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
2:27 pm

If you dont believe me, ask N8. ;)

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
2:27 pm

P-Town Yes, but Frank Thomas could still be playing 1b in the Marlins & Royals organizations

Hmm… :P

BravesfaninWis

No need to apologize. You’re welcome!

beekay next B-Mac??…He’s a free swinger who needs to gain better command of the strike zone.

Not until he gets that straightened out.

On the other hand…he’s gonna be 18 in 2010? Oh mercy…that makes me just a little bit older than him. 8O

CB

November 11th, 2009
2:28 pm

Lowe and KK for Miguel Cabrera- problem solved.

Braveheart

November 11th, 2009
2:28 pm

Footage of Random after the Braves trade his beloved Kawakami:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02xiDRSFg90

nolie

November 11th, 2009
2:28 pm

ust doesn’t have the same ring (tater)

I prefer a recliner for myself, but a couch for you.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
2:30 pm

What new guy are you talking about?

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
2:34 pm

ANY new guy. People are attched to Lowe’s name. He is old and had a bad year. He might not bounce back.
With him gone you can sign any of a handful of servicable pitchers.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
2:36 pm

Heck, with 15 mil a year off the books, the Braves can sign just about any pitcher this side of Lackey.

RC

November 11th, 2009
2:38 pm

Just saw this on MLBTraderumors.com:

Asked about trading Joey Votto, Jocketty replied, “Oh God, no.”

Soooo…..guess that one’s off the table.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
2:38 pm

this is from MLBTR

Asked about trading Joey Votto, Jocketty replied, “Oh God, no.”

Willie Montanez

November 11th, 2009
2:40 pm

I am seeing in stereo.

RC

November 11th, 2009
2:40 pm

DAP

November 11th, 2009
2:40 pm

you scooped me, quick-draw RC.

ugaaccountant

November 11th, 2009
2:48 pm

A rotation of Hanson, JJ, Hudson, Kawakami, Medlen is above average. Keep Medlen in the pen and sign an average veteran FA for 4th/5th spot and it’s well above average.

Trading Lowe for very little, and Vasquez for a slugger does work as it clears a ton of salary to be spent in a buyers market. Trading those two we’d need a new 5th starter (cheap) and either an OF or 1b, whichever one we didn’t get for Vasquez.

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
2:52 pm

Happy Veterans Day, Mitchie-san! And thank you for your service!

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
2:53 pm

ugaaccountant, you have seen the light! Welcome.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
2:53 pm

McFann-…..BMac need not worry the kid is probably 3 years away and I remember when Tyler Houston was supposed to be the next Johnny Bench, 2nd pick overall and he ended up being a back up his whole career.

braveman

November 11th, 2009
2:53 pm

siap….

but curtis granderson is officially on the block.

how sweet would it be to get him? what would it take?

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
2:53 pm

Thanks McFann! You rock!

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
2:56 pm

TnBrian… your 11:34 am post… I’d look seriously at swapping Kawakmai for Ludwick.

DAP… your 11:36 am post… I’ll grant your points on Votto, but I believe Wren has a commitment to Freeman and will seek an interim first baseman until he’s ready.

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
3:02 pm

beekay

Oh yeah, I was just playin’ around. There are always these guys in the minors who are s’posed to be the greatest thing since the electric pencil sharpener, but so many times it doesn’t quite work out that way. And even with BMac, who could have looked at his minor league numbers and said, “Four-time All-Star after 4.36 years in the Bigs”? So hard to tell sometimes…

Or Salty…everyone thought he was so great. Not that he’s bad now, but he’s not quite what a lot of people made him out to be. I for one never got sucked into that, though. :P

Mitchie-san

You’re welcome! And thank you…though you guys are the ones that REALLY rock! :D

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
3:05 pm

how sweet would it be to get him? what would it take?

And have 3 CF’ers? Doesn’t make sense. Isn’t a fit.

N8

November 11th, 2009
3:06 pm

I’m with you Mitchie-san. But you already know that. Why does it have to be Medlen? Why not a guy like Paul Byrd or a veteran that can give us some solid starts in the 5th starter spot. Because obviously if Hudson is healthy (and the Braves must believe he is), even with KK in the 4th starter’s spot, we’re VERY solid if not great in spots 1-4.

By trading both Lowe and Vazquez, Wren would clear 26.5 million off the books. Certainly with 26.5 million dollars the lineup could be not only fixed but made elite again, especially if Chipper rebounds. Which most think he will with some heavy protection in the order.

I can’t say it enough. It’s about balance. Balance wins from April to September. Add to that, Hudson, JJJ and Hanson certainly would make a very nice trio of starters in the post-season. And while KK might not be John Smoltz, what team out there has a better 4th starter than him?

Speaking of Smoltz. As much as people want to believe there is zero chance of him returning, (which I pretty much agree with), why not look into him being the 5th starter? If he fails, Medlen is there to take over, and if he fails, we’ve always got Jo-Jo and maybe even Minor later in the year.

Certainly after last year, Smoltz isn’t going to command/demand the 5 million that Boston gave him, is he?

If there is even the slightest chance that a guy like Derek Lee could be had for Vazquez, Wren has to pull that trigger, doesn’t he? Then with the salary dump of Lowe (we can’t really expect much in return if a team is going to take on that contract), Wren could afford to re-sign Gonzo and add a guy like Dye, Cameron or another mid-range RH outfielder.

If a guy like Derek Lee is added to the lineup to bat cleanup, all we really need in the OF is a guy that can do what Loaf did, with a little better defense, right?

Then when Heyward is ready to help, call him up and sort it out then.

Would our rotation be better if Wren just simply dumped Lowe and add a mid-level RH bat to bat cleanup? Sure and our lineup would probably be improved as well.

But imo, in order to maximize the money that Chipper is being paid and to help him get to elite status again, a true clenaup hitter is needed. Derek Lee is that guy to me. Not to mention he plays fantastic defense.

Trading Lowe and Vazquez weekens the rotation a bit. But replacing their salaries with Derek Lee at 1B and a Cameron in RF (with Diaz playing LF – maybe in a platoon with Church?), out TEAM is more poised to win on a daily basis.

Of course if Hudson goes down again it could all blow up in Wren’s face. So he really has to be certain that Hudson is “back”. Judging by the 3 year extension, I think he believes that.

Chopshop

November 11th, 2009
3:07 pm

Off topic but …….. Can we now officially call Sammy Sosa a clown ? His “face cream” has done wonders !!!

beekay

November 11th, 2009
3:08 pm

Michie-san
Don’t know you at all but appreciate people like you that risk their lives to give us the opportunity to have the freedoms that we have today. You guys do rock!

Capt Morgan

November 11th, 2009
3:09 pm

N8:

You make some good points about Jojo. My question is – how many options does he have left? He can’t have many – he’s been up and down between majors and minors for years…

Capt Morgan

November 11th, 2009
3:12 pm

N8:

I was referring to your 2:05 post – not your 3:06.

monty

November 11th, 2009
3:13 pm

Just too much to assume with Lowe and Vazquez both out. Together you figure they get 30-32 wins conservatively. Medlen and KK you could optimistically figure 24-26 wins. And you have to assume that Hanson doesn’t have a sophmore jinx and that Huddy is all the way back. Just too much conjecture IMO.

Braveheart

November 11th, 2009
3:13 pm

McLouth is from Michigan. Trade him back home in some package for Granderson …….

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
3:14 pm

You make some good points about Jojo. My question is – how many options does he have left? He can’t have many – he’s been up and down between majors and minors for years…

I believe he has 1 more left, but I’m not sure if one of them was used in ‘07 or not.

N8

November 11th, 2009
3:14 pm

Capt Morgan, I don’t know about his contract status. That would be a better question for DOB. But you’re right, his clock has to be ticking more than others. My guess is that we’ve got him under control for another 3 years or so. With what he’s done, his arbitration numbers wouldn’t really hurt us that bad. Seems to me, like he’d be a guy that would “settle” without going to a hearing when it comes to that (if it ever does).

My point is just not to give up on those guys so soon. But to use the minor league option system to our advantage. Which Wren seems to be doing with him. Obviously Morton would have been nice to hang on to as well, but he was needed to get McLouth.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
3:16 pm

beekay,

Thats very kind of you. Thank you! It always means alot to all of us to hear that people care.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:17 pm

Random-

I chose not to answer because with ppl like you, it wouldn’t matter what I say, you’ll just choose to form your own sort of opinion and state that mine is ignorant and that everyone who agrees with me is stupid.

I still don’t feel as though I’m completely incorrect though as while you said Bobby is the main component, yeah, he is, because even when the Braves could have picked up a bonafide leadoff man, Bobby would choose to pursue the power bat. Thats not just me talking, thats GMs, scouts, and writers among others…

So you can think what you want of me, but i’ll be alright and forget all about you in about 10 minutes…

I mean I don’t always get along with Steve, but at least he has some better logic than we don’t run because we don’t have Otis Nixon. Oh and let me preface that saying that my meaning was little to none…as in when you have Prado, Escobar, McLouth, and Diaz who can run, but we choose to leave them at 1b…thats where my point comes in…

AND let me finish by saying that I don’t mean just stolen bases, but hit and runs, going 1st to 3rd…it happens very little in his system, and who knows, maybe the blame shouldn’t be on Bobby, maybe it should somewhat be on the baserunning instructors and the 3b coach (who is awful btw)…

Just don’t act like the Braves have been running like crazy all over the universe this decade because they haven’t.

Thats all, I am done with this conversation…there’s no point left to it.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
3:17 pm

Looks like Curtis Granderson just became available. Any takers here?

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
3:18 pm

N8/Mitchie/others

A few weeks back, I floated the same idea; dealing Lowe and Vazquez. Was told to remember 2008, which was sobering.

One or two elbow “barks” puts you in a tougher situation.

But then again, nothing in life is guaranteed. FW seems to have the kahones to try something like that. I would think that with Medlen, Minor, Reyes and Parr in the wings, we might not be too bad off.

Again, it seems though that expecting ALL of our starters to have an injury free season might be a recipe for disaster.

I would love to see Kris “My Little Pony” Medlen get a chance to see what he can do. He has enough pitches to make it as a starter, and I think his skills might be wasted somewhat in the pen.

I love the Derrek Lee possibility too! (wonder if that would even be possible)

MZ

November 11th, 2009
3:20 pm

all this talk about movies, did anybody see “Orphan”? … the twist makes it what it is … definitely up there with “The Strangers” and “Vacancy” as far as top scary movies of the past few years …. as far as movies I’m anxious to check out — “The Lovely Bones” and “Shutter Island” are definitely must-sees in my mind … while I’m thinking about movies, just curious if anybody ever saw “Running Scared” with Paul Walker? Paul Walker sucks, but even he couldn’t bring “Running Scared” down … if you haven’t seen it, you should … that is, if you like crime-thriller-mob-chase-type films

Bad Scooter

November 11th, 2009
3:21 pm

Phil Karns- The 40 Year Old Virgin and Anchorman weren’t good enough for you?

braveman

November 11th, 2009
3:21 pm

put schafer in a package for granderson and move mclouth to left. granderson would leadoff and mclouth could bat further down in the order, driving in more runs.

then, we would have only one centerfielder in granderson.

it shouldnt take much to get him as his numbers declined a bit last year, although he did hit 30 homers. his average was down from .280 a year ago to .249 but he had some nagging injuries throughout the year supposedly. he is a career .272 hitter. he will only be 29 years old next season…

i dont know, seems like a good idea… but they way some of you talk about schafer being all-world its probably not to you guys haha

Bad Scooter

November 11th, 2009
3:22 pm

I forgot Superbad and Knocked Up too. Some great comedies the past few years.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
3:22 pm

30-32 wins with Lowe and Vazquez? Dont forget Lowe wonderful run support last year. Take that away and he would have only won about 10 or so. I think assuming Lowe wins 15-16 next year is dangerous.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
3:23 pm

Nevermind about the Granderson thing, I just looked as his splits against lefties and righties and he was absolutely horrible against lefties. Look at these splits.

Against righties he had a line of .275 28 62 with an OPS of .897
Against lefties he had a line of .183 2 9 with an OPS of .484

Now, granted, he didnt get as many plate appearances as he did against righties, but still, that looks horrible.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
3:25 pm

Wayne,
Elbow barks can happen to any rotation. Lowe and Vazquez can both go down with injury and we would be in the same situation as if we traded them. Dont forget the plan is to sign another pitcher to replace Lowe.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:26 pm

Braveman-

I actually don’t see a problem with that deal other than MAYBE Granderson being another lefty that doesn’t hit lefties well.

We’d really have to go after someone like Atkins (bc he’s RHH) to play 1b then and he’d have to hit cleanup…

Thats the only problem I see there…

Your lineup w/ my addition would look something like this:

Granderson
Prado
Jones
Atkins
McCann
Escobar
McLouth
Diaz

That lineup is decent, but still don’t believe its as good as my lineup w/ Ludwick in the 4-hole and Atkins batting 7th (8th when Heyward is ready)

Wayne-

Somehow I still feel as though Medlen is our Plan C for closer(behind Gonzo and Wagner), and really, I could see him being a great one.

MattyRoss

November 11th, 2009
3:27 pm

I think somebody mentioned that watching on a DVR isn’t tracked by ratings, but if you watch it within 5 days it actually is. Nielsen started taking it into account. Just FYI.

N8

November 11th, 2009
3:27 pm

Monty, but compared to what Francouer, KJ and Kotchman gave us, how many more wins would bats like Cameron and Derek Lee (just examples) give us on those nights when the pitching isn’t perfect?

How many games did our offense just simply get shut down for most of the night? Not to mention the defense. Having a guy like Cameron in one of the corner spots just adds range to the OF defense. Dude played CF last year for the Brewers. Hell, they could play him in CF and move McLouth to LF for that matter. Cameron might be better defensively than McLouth in CF.

We barely played .500 ball in Vazquez’s starts (18-14).

In fact, the only starter that the Braves had a really good winning percentage in his starts was Lowe.

Here are the team records in the 5 starters starts:

Vazquez: 18-14
JJJ: 17-17
Lowe: 21-13
KK: 12-13
Hanson: 12-9

3 of those guys (Hanson, Vazquez and JJJ) had ERA’s under 3.00 and the team went 47-40 in their starts. Yet we went 21-13 in Lowe’s starts with his 4.67 ERA. Why do you think that is? Add to that, like him or not, KK and his 3.86 ERA deserved a much better fate (as did the team) in his starts.

It’s all about run support. Lowe had it, the others didn’t. When the “worst” (ERA wise) starter has the most wins, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure it out. The offense needs a MASSIVE overhaul to give our good starters a better chance to win.

As Mitchie-san said, losing Lowe isn’t that devistating. Sure he could rebound, and sure he provides innings. Something this team desperately needed after the 2008 season. Our innings, pitching depth isn’t in nearly the poor shape it was in going into last year with Hudson starting on the shelf and Hanson in the minors. But certainly his ERA can easily be replaced. And with improved offense, not only would whoever replaces him get the run support needed to succeed, but so would Hanson, Hudson, JJJ and KK.

I’m not sure the impact bat we need to make this offense click can be had without trading Vazquez.

The perfect solution would be for Liberty Media to up payroll about 15-20 million. Then Lowe could be dumped. Holliday or Bay could be signed and Vazquez could be kept.

Where is Arthur Blank or Ted Turner when you need them. Mark Cuban anybody?

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:28 pm

Mitchie-san-

Where did you get that? Maybe sign another pen pitcher, but we’d still have 5+ starters if we traded Lowe (the plus being counting Medlen and if you even wanna count Jo-Jo as a starter now)

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
3:28 pm

Not sure my 3:25 made much sense. I typed too fast while thinking…

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
3:29 pm

I for one do not think Medlen would be a good closer. Yes he has really good stuff, but his mentality doesnt seem to fit that of a closer, he is way too fidgety and if the opposing team got runners on, he might falter under the pressure. Someone like Hanson has the mentality to be a good closer, but he is way too valuable in the starting rotation.

braveman

November 11th, 2009
3:30 pm

P-town,

true. we still need to find some right handed pop.

CB

November 11th, 2009
3:30 pm

It is amazing that people make trade proposals and they haven’t even looked at any stats or think how they would fit in the lineup-well for you fellows my granny is available and she would come cheap.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
3:32 pm

P-Town,

I would like to have another veteran pitcher in the rotation other than Hudson. Just for mentor and injury sake alone. I wouldnt mind Medlen starting, but the teams plan for him might be the bullpen.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:33 pm

N8-

I for one am someone who has never really liked Cameron offensively. If your team is having an off night, he’s not gonna be the one to turn it around. The guy strikes out way too much.

My clamoring for Garrett Atkins has been because of that…I value guys who put the ball in play. Look at his stats w/ RISP and in high leverage situations. The guy is money.

What are Cameron’s numbers in those situations?

Granted I agree w/ that combination creating more offense than Francoeur/KJ/Kotchman but thats mainly on Prado and what Lee would give you. I just don’t buy Cameron being that much more effective if you aren’t considering his glove.

Bring that into play and then we’ll talk.

MattyRoss-

You have a link for that? I’m the one that said it as I heard it on a news broadcast not too long ago.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:34 pm

Mitchie-san-

Did you forget about Vazquez?

Also, I’ll take talent over veteran any day…

I mean c’mon, would you want Jurrjens or Jeff Suppan on your staff?

N8

November 11th, 2009
3:35 pm

Wayne, I agree on Medlen. I honestly think that with an offense that helps the team compete in games where the pitching isn’t “on” that night, that Medlen could give us around 6-7 innings a night with similar ERA to what Lowe provided (think Jason Marquis in Colorado).

The reason that guys like KK, Medlen and even Vazquez and JJJ earlier in the year, were not allowed to go deeper into games more often, was because the offense stunk so bad that Bobby was forced to PH for them in the mid innings before teams got to their closers and main setup guys.

With an offense that scores around 5-6 runs a game consistently, a guy like Medlen could be stretched out a bit more. Especially as a 5th starter where he could get skipped once in a while.

But later in the year, KK proved he could go deeper in games, once he was asked to do so.

A rotation of JJJ, Hanson, Hudson, KK and Medlen would STILL be one of the better rotations in baseball, and certainly in the NL East. If our lineup was drasticly improved, I think that rotation still allows us to make a run at the Phillies, and certainly puts us in a better wild card position than we were in last year.

But as I’ve said before. After June 28th we were one of the best teams in baseball. So simply replacing Lowe (salary dump) with Hudson, and finding a 1B (maybe re-signing LaRoche) and figuring out a bridge OF until Heyward is ready, along with solving the Gonzo/Soriano issue, perhaps we’re all over-thinking this too much?

But I suspect the Phillies will look to improve as well. Not to mention that like us with McLouth and the “addition by subtraction” of Jeff, the Phils also will have a full year of Cliff Lee, which makes them better from April to September. So Wren is best advised to not sit on his hands too much.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
3:36 pm

i really like granderson. i dont think he is that much better than mclouth, though. they have basically been identical offensive players the last two years. granderson hada career year in 2007 that spiked his career numbers, but im not sure that thats the player he really is.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
3:37 pm

P-Town,
I think they should trade BOTH Vazquez and Lowe….

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:37 pm

Oh, also Mitchie…

In my pen, I like keeping Moylan in the 7th and slotting Medlen into the 8th as the setup man.

Then you can throw Gonzo or Wagner in the 9th.

AND I like having Kimbrell on the staff and bringing him along slowly. Let him learn the ropes and be a student under Pete and either Gonzo or Billy. He’ll learn much from either of those two. Almost like when Rivera learned his first year under Wetteland.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
3:38 pm

I think all of you guys are failing to grasp the big pitcher. What GM in their right mind would trade a big young bopper that is relatively cheap or even a good homerun guy for just 1 year of Javy Vazquez? You would have to throw in much more in the way of prospects to get a team to fork over a BJ Upton or Mark Reynolds type player. So it would be much easier to trade Lowe to free up the 15 million and sign LaRoche and another player like Mike Cameron to fill out the lineup.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
3:40 pm

I liked someones idea the other day of having a two headed closer of Moylan and Gonzalez. Gonzo against the lefties and Moylan against the righties.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:40 pm

I really don’t want Javy to go anywhere…I like that rotation, but I would like it much better with Javy in it and KK as the 5 or Medlen as the 5.

I still feel as though we don’t put Medlen in the rotation though as that would leave yet another pen spot to fill.

Another idea is to have Jo-Jo go to the pen. He may not be cut out as a starter, but why not a lights out lefty reliever that could give you 1-2 innings?

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
3:41 pm

I am not as talented as N8, but read his posts. We are on the same wavelength.

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 11th, 2009
3:41 pm

Just finished watching Sons of Anarchy from last night. As good as that show was at the start, it seems to just get better and better with every episode. Amazing show!! It’s moved right up my rankings to be on the same list with The Wire, The Sopranoes, Deadwood, etc.

Tomahawk Talk

November 11th, 2009
3:42 pm

It’s not set in stone but I have talked to the manager of the Braves groundscrew and I should have a job lined up. I was thinking about starting a website/blog to tell my story. I’m trying to come up with a clever name for it but something like this…

(Insert Name Here): a view from the Atlanta Braves Groundscrew

i’ve heard

Haulin’ the Tarp: a view from the groundscrew

I need more ideas! Thanks guys!

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:43 pm

OJ-

Yeah, the guys I listened to on the podcast said they would sign Cameron (6M), Atkins (4M), Nady (3M), Counsell (1M), Howry (2M) and Wagner (9M), and they would trade Lowe and Kawakami.

I don’t really like all the ideas there, but it would give us a more complete roster.

nolie

November 11th, 2009
3:43 pm

nd love Entourage, but don’t have HBO…same w/ Dexter and Showtime… P-Town

http://thepiratebay.org/tv

TnBrian

November 11th, 2009
3:46 pm

BREAKING NEWS:

“It appears inevitable that the Braves will trade one starter”. (MLBTR)

N8

November 11th, 2009
3:46 pm

P-Town, I’m definitely taking Cameron’s glove into play. I think playing him in CF and moving McLouth to LF, drasticaly improves our OF defense. Neither of them have the range of Andruw in their prime. Hell, Schafer is prolly (LOL) a better CF than both of them. But the combined range of the the two of them is better than any defense with Loaf in it.

To me, Cameron is a nice bat to put lower in the order who can provide some pop at the backend. But not as a cleanup hitter. No way. We’d be better off with Escobar batting cleanup.

But if Wren could add a Derek Lee to bat cleanup (simply put, his protection of Chipper and his batting cleanup allowing Mac to bat 5th – his best spot – would be almost as valuble as whatever actual production he provided – along with HIS defense), then a guy like Cameron could be a nice piece of the puzzle as a secondary acquisition this winter.

If Cameron is the ONLY addition? The it won’t be enough, and we’d be better off keeping Vazquez.

Make no mistake, I’m only OK with moving Vazquez if a HUGE hitter like Lee is added for him. I’m not looking to dump his salary. 11.5 million is a steal for what he provides. We just happen to have pitching depth, and he is the ONLY pitcher that isn’t young and under our control that could bring said bat.

Lowe on the other hand, as I’ve stated, can be easily replaced for what we are paying him. If Lowe was making only 8 million per year, he’d be a steal too. But he’s not. Which is why KK is a better “value” than Lowe at this point.

As I’ve stated, Chipper’s value needs to be maximized as well. To me, the only way to do that is to provide him with some REAL protection in the lineup. While I do think he’s getting older and his decline has begun, provide him with some protection and take the weight off of his shoulders and he can be a great asset to this team for another year or maybe two. But Wren should be on the lookout in these trades for a young 3B to replace him. Or perhaps a young 2B to replace Prado and then move Prado to 3B.

Prado might not provide the power that you expect from 3B. But he could grow into that role, and he certainly could be Jeff Cirillo like with all his doubles. Not to mention he’s better defensively at 3B than at 2B. So Wren has options down the road when Chipper is done.

But I’m with you on “contact” guys over power guys. If Wren is not going to get a big bopper (like Derek Lee), and is only going to acqurire one guy, it should be somebody that provides good defense and makes solid contact. If a big bat is traded for/signed to bat cleanup, a hacker like Cameron can have a place on this team.

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
3:47 pm

nolie,

You ever use tvtorrents? Much better selection and DL speeds.

Braveheart

November 11th, 2009
3:48 pm

Rivera really didn’t learn under Wetteland in 1996. Starting with the divisional series in his rookie year against the Mariners in 1995, Rivera was far and away better than Wetteland. They formed a good combo in 1996, but Rivera wasn’t learning how to close from Wetteland that year. Rivera was just biding his time until he could shove Wetteland out of his way.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
3:49 pm

If we trade Javy we better get a heck of a return. He dominated throughout the entire season…a performance that we haven’t seen from a starter since the Big Three days. JJ and Hanson were very, very good but Javy was lights out 90% of his starts.

N8

November 11th, 2009
3:51 pm

“I am not as talented as N8, but read his posts. We are on the same wavelength.” Mitchie-san

Dude. I’m just longwinded, and have zero talent for making my point without writing an essay. LOL

But you’re the true hero. Don’t forget it.

wheelz007

November 11th, 2009
3:51 pm

Maybe Medlen could close?

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
3:52 pm

Again, Javy alone will not provide one heck of a return, it will take prospects as well. now, if Javy had a multiyear contract in place and teams knew they were getting him for more than 1 year, then yes, you might get a huge amount in return, but he isnt signed for more than a year.

nolie

November 11th, 2009
3:53 pm

what is the obsession with right handed hitters? having votto would in no way suck. with a hitter like votto, the side of the plate he stands on should have no importance to you. (DA)

no doubt that so far Votto has hit lefties pretty darn well, but most aren’t that way which is why people keep saying that.

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
3:54 pm

Boras, man, he’s ridiculous. Courtesy of Jon Heyman (Page 2):

One highlight in Boras’ annual lobby press conference came when he was asked about his own comparison of Holliday to Mark Teixeira and whether that meant he believes Holliday should also receive $180 million. To that, Boras responded, “I don’t want to put any ceilings on (Holliday),” inspiring a few snickers from reporters (though Boras maintained a straight face).

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
3:54 pm

N8-

I agree w/ your entire post, but its just not going to happen.

Derrek Lee isn’t going anywhere w/ that no-trade clause. He LOVES Chicago and I just don’t see him waiving that.

Otherwise, yeah, I could be agreeable to Mike Cameron if he’s batting 7th and then 8th when Heyward comes up.

I however like Atkins at 1b because then you can move him to 3b when Chipper retires and Freeman takes over, which I’m hoping will both be in the same season.

Braveheart

November 11th, 2009
3:54 pm

DAP, I agree about McLouth versus Granderson. Although I’d like them to make that deal, I’m not sure that Granderson is any better than McLouth. Mclouth has the club friendlier contract too I think, which would make any such trade make less sense.

N8

November 11th, 2009
3:56 pm

“Maybe Medlen could close? wheelz007

I’ve thought the same thing. I think it’s a role he could grow into heading towards 2011. But I don’t think they put that pressure on him in 2010. While he doesn’t have the power pitches you typically think of with closers. Neither did Trevor Hoffman.

What Hoffman had, was impeccable control, and a changeup that was devastating. Great arm action on that change up. But he set it all up by spotting that fastball. But guys with less “stuff” have succeeded in the closers role.

I just don’t think Medlen is ready for that just yet. I could be wrong.

nolie

November 11th, 2009
3:57 pm

ou ever use tvtorrents? Much better selection and DL speeds

now you see, I have the opposite impression, especially about selection. there are hundreds and hundreds of shows available most of which are available within hours, plus about every movie made in ages. U torrent is pretty quick for me too at the Pirate. I’ll look tvtorrents over again

Macon Braves (RIP)

November 11th, 2009
3:57 pm

The last season or two of Entourage have been sub-par in my opinion. But HBO has been having Entourage marathons late Saturday nights the last few weeks (showing a full season each week) and I was reminded how great the first couple of seasons were. Can’t really put my finger on what’s been different the last couple of seasons but something has just seemed to be missing.

Can’t wait for HBO to finally come up with another epic series (ie Sopranoes, Wire, Deadwood, Rome, Band of Brothers, etc.) but the last few tries have been disappointing in my opinion. True Blood was ok, but not nearly on par with those I mentioned. And I could strangle the guy that dropped Deadwood after the third season (third I think, maybe it was only the second though) to make John From Cincinnati which is quite possibly the worst series HBO ever put out.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
3:58 pm

nolie im just not sure while people continue to think that the braves need a hitter that kills lefthanded pitching, as if that is a weakness for the braves. the braves hit lefties well in 2009. better than they hit righthanders, in fact.

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
3:59 pm

N8, thanks, bro.

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
3:59 pm

Why does everyone keep suggesting that Medlen close?? he doesnt have the mentality of a closer. He is way too antsy.

N8

November 11th, 2009
3:59 pm

P-Town. I agree, Lee more than likely isn’t going anywhere. Especially with new ownership in place. He just appears to be the perfect fit as a bridge to Freeman, while providing EXACTLY what we need right now. Which is a RH power hitter, that has a track record of succeeding in the cleanup role…. and that defense. :-)

nolie

November 11th, 2009
4:00 pm

plus you don’t need to register, which I prefer

nolie

November 11th, 2009
4:02 pm

im just not sure while people continue to think that the braves need a hitter that kills lefthanded pitching, as if that is a weakness for the braves. the braves hit lefties well in 2009. better than they hit righthanders, in fact.

do you have the ba/.obp./sl/ops for each?

N8

November 11th, 2009
4:03 pm

“And I could strangle the guy that dropped Deadwood after the third season (third I think, maybe it was only the second though) to make John From Cincinnati which is quite possibly the worst series HBO ever put out.” Macon Braves (RIP)

I actually initially really liked the strangeness that John From Cincinnati brought to the table. But it just simply went nowhere fast. If I remember correctly, DOB initially liked it as well. It was a weird good like Natural Born Killers. By that I mean, when you watched it you kept asking yourself why you were watching it because it was so over the top stupid and ridiculous. Yet you couldn’t turn away. At first.

Eventually I stopped watching. Before they dumped it.

Mitchie-san No. Thank you.

monty

November 11th, 2009
4:04 pm

No doubt we have to get better offensively to win the East. However, the team that finished the last half of the season is good enough to win the WC. Like N8 said we don’t need to overthink this thing too much. To me getting rid of both Lowe and Vazquez and having to replace their 32 wins conservatively speaking with another duo is a little much for me personally. Definitely one of the other has to go. Someone said,(Mitchie-Sans I believe) that he didn’t feel Lowe could give us 15 wins next year. Well, that is his avg. number of wins for the past 8 seasons.Even in years when he didn’t reach 15 wins his ERA was easily under 4.00 and he should have. Which adds more weight to N8’s assertion that run support means more to a pitcher’s win totals than ERA. (See KK). The JAvy for D.Lee sounds enticing I’m just not sure what to make of 2 guys being swapped who have only one year left on their contracts. The Cubs have deeper pockets than ours. I don’t see them giving him up. He is their CJ. Plus JAvy and Lee have the power to veto any trade deal also. I just think we are one .280 LF who can hit 25 Hr’s + and run, throw, and field and LARoche at 1B (or) one Adrian Gonzalez type at 1B and Diaz in LF McLouth in CF, Heyward in RF. away from contending for the East with our pitching. If we keep one of either Lowe or Javy. Like Joe Giraurdi said, ” Lee can’t pitch every game.”

BravoMan

November 11th, 2009
4:06 pm

TBrian 3:46,

Get outta here lol

ugaaccountant

November 11th, 2009
4:08 pm

I like Granderson more than McLouth as a cleanup hitter. I’m not going to look up the contract numbers though as it seems too abstract a possibility to me.

TnBrian

November 11th, 2009
4:08 pm

We need a Baba Booey on this blog. I think Lew, the serious guy, is the perfect canidate.

beekay

November 11th, 2009
4:10 pm

I don’t like Medlen as a closer. He seemed to pitch nervously in any tight situations. I like him in long relief or as spot starter a Gonzo -Moylan split….

DAP

November 11th, 2009
4:10 pm

nolie

right here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=ATL&year=2009

in 2009 the braves hit .268/.339/.411 (.750 OPS) vs. lefties and .261/.339/.403 (.742 OPS) versus righties.

they might as well be identical, but they actually hit better vs lefties.

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
4:11 pm

DAP-

Do we really NEED to go over this AGAIN?!

The numbers are incredibly skewed overall by Prado and Escobar…both not LHH, but both also not power hitters.

If our lefties numbers were that much better OR the guys that did so well were Jones, McCann, or LaRoche, then maybe that would make sense, but since they weren’t the Braves need help in that department.

It also wouldn’t hurt to have a lefty who hits lefties well.

Jeff R

November 11th, 2009
4:12 pm

As to Vazquez not returning value because he has one year left on his contract, good point, but not necessarily. Let’s say that Wren can cut a deal with the Cubs. The Cubs would likely want an assurance from Vazquez and his agent that a new contract was doable. Or have something preliminary worked out prior to the deal closing.

Having said that, I’d rather Vazquez stay with the Bravos.

N8

November 11th, 2009
4:12 pm

nolie, to me it’s not for everyday games of the 162 game grind. But if we’re to succeed against the elite LHP and lefty relievers in the post season, there needs to be some balance in the lineup to split Chipper and Mac up.

If for nothing else, to make a manager burn through pitchers going for the lefty/righty matchups in the late innings. Too many games last year, an apposing manager was just allowed to bring in a lefty and turn Chipper around, and then leave that reliever in to face Mac. Both are better power hitters against RHP.

I suspect this is also why LaRoche was left lower in the order as well.

But I’m with you. Last year, I argued round and round with people that Ibanez or Abreu would has STILL been upgrades and helped us win games despite being LH. If I’m correct, Ibanez is pretty much 50/50 stat wise against RH or LH pitching.

At this point, I’d settle for a guy like Adam Dunn in the cleanup spot, even though he’s LH. But to me, for the balance of the lineup, a RH hitter would be ideal.

For example, since you asked for stats. Here are McCann’s splits:

Against RHP: 328 AB, 17 HR, 72 RBI, .308/.368/.564/.932

Against LHP: 160 AB, 4 HR, 22 RBI, .225/.309/.325/.634

In a perfect world, Chipper would be turned around to face the opposing teams “best” LHP in a clutch spot. Then the manager would have to make another move to bring in a RHP for the cleanup hitter (if RH), and then, if they didn’t have another LH reliever, Mac gets to face a RHP or face a lesser LHP.

But with those stats for Mac against lefties, you can see how whether he’s in the cleanup spot or even the 5th hole, our middle of the lineup is significantly weakened against LHP. To me that’s huge. A big RH power hitter batting 4th changes the whole lineup, imo.

Moby Grape

November 11th, 2009
4:13 pm

Atkins will make around 7 million in ARB, only sign him if he is non tendered (Rob)

how would we sign him if he isn’t non-tendered ??

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
4:13 pm

Oh, and I forgot….Matt Diaz lefty killer.

Our main power threats: Chipper, BMac, Nate, LaRoche…

All hit most of their HR against RHP.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
4:13 pm

P-town, im talking to nolie. feel free not to participate if you dont want to go over it again and give your opinion that because we have sereval right handers who hit lefties so good, thats why we need another one. completely illogical.

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
4:15 pm

nolie -

im just not sure while people continue to think that the braves need a hitter that kills lefthanded pitching, as if that is a weakness for the braves. the braves hit lefties well in 2009. better than they hit righthanders, in fact.

do you have the ba/.obp./sl/ops for each?

Probably more than you bargained for, but here goes.

2009 Braves splits:

VS RHP – .261/.339/.403/.742 (.299 BABIP) – 101 HR (2.61% of AB’s), 1.75 K/BB ratio

VS LHP – .268/.339/.411/.750 (.301 BABIP) – 48 HR (2.87% of AB’s), 1.80 K/BB ratio

AS RHB – .271/.337/.404/.740 (.311 BABIP) – 64 HR (2.47% of AB’s), 2.10 K/BB ratio

AS LHB – .257/.340/.407/.747 (.289 BABIP) – 85 HR (2.89% of AB’s), 1.55 K/BB ratio

DAP

November 11th, 2009
4:16 pm

P-town Our main power threats: Chipper, BMac, Nate, LaRoche…

All hit most of their HR against RHP.

is that weird? since they all probably have at least twice as many ABs against righties?

P-Town Brave

November 11th, 2009
4:18 pm

N8-

You hit the nail right on the head there!

My earlier suggested lineup:

McLouth (LHH)
Prado (RHH)
Chipper (better power LHH)
Bay/Ludwick (both RHH)
McCann (LHH)
Escobar (RHH)
Heyward (LHH)
Atkins (RHH)

Just look at how well it worked out for the Phillies once they split up Howard and Ibanez and went Howard/Werth/Ibanez/Feliz in 4/5/6/7 in the lineup.

ccrider

November 11th, 2009
4:19 pm

One quick comment: I think the Braves could acquire A. Gonzalez for Teheren, Bethancourt, Schafer, Hicks and Cody Johnson(They already have a replacement for Gonzalez in Kyle Blanks). The question is would the Braves want to give up Teheren.
One other note: if we trade Lowe and can’t get Bay or Holiday, would a Johnny Damon at $10 mil and a Carlos Delgado at $5 work( I know they are both lefties) but a Troy Glaus at $3-$4 backing up at 1st and 3rd might help out that problem.

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
4:21 pm

And for good measure:

VS RHP as RH – .265/.326/.386/.712 (.312 BABIP) – 37 HR (2.22% of AB’s), 2.64 K/BB ratio

VS RHP as LH – .259/.348/.416/.746 (.289 BABIP) – 64 HR (2.91% of AB’s), 1.37 K/BB ratio

VS LHP as RH – .282/.356/.435/.790 (.311 BABIP) – 27 HR (2.91% of AB’s), 1.45 K/BB ratio

VS LHP as LH – .251/.317/.381/.698 (.289 BABIP) – 21 HR (2.82% of AB’s), 2.36 K/BB ratio

N8

November 11th, 2009
4:21 pm

Nolie, Escobar’s splits are almost as poor against LHP as Mac’s are. So he isn’t an option to flip flop with Mac in the 5 hole.

Prado on the other hand absolutely destroyed LHP. So perhaps, he is an option to bat 5th and protect the middle of the order.

But by showing how poor Mac and Escobar are against LHP, it just proves how much the secondary hitters on the team have to step up against LHP.

DAP showed that the TEAM hit better technically against LHP. But when arguably your two best hitters in Mac and Escobar are basically neutralized against LHP, something has to be done. Or others will have to step up.

Chipper actually had much better stats against LHP than RHP last year. So maybe managers will stop turning him around. But here are his splits. Actually pretty scary how poor he faired batting LH last year. Yikes.

Against RHP: 329 AB, 9 HR, 39 RBI, .252/.395/.377/.772

Against LHP: 159 AB, 9 HR, 33 RBI, .289/.372/.541/.912

Venice Jim

November 11th, 2009
4:21 pm

Buck and Kincade about to talk Braves on 680, if anyone wants to call in their favorite trade proposal… ;)

Moby Grape

November 11th, 2009
4:25 pm

Why isn’t Buster Olney believable BH

perhaps because he made a big point of the Braves trading Vazquez to Texas. He has a NTC that includes Texas, and he would have to be pretty stupid to agree to go to such a hitters park the year before FA. Not the first thing I’ve read by him where he sailed on without doing adequate research.

ugaaccountant

November 11th, 2009
4:26 pm

I of course would prefer a perfect RH batter to hit cleanup, but it’s most important to get the best player coming to us as cheaply as possible in terms of salary and/or who we traded away, than ensuring he’s RH.

For instance, if Derek Lee (RH) and Mystery better overall 1b (LH) cost us equal salary and both required Vasquez in return, you pick the better overall player.

In fact, I’d suggest that getting a player highly qualified for the cleanup spot in terms of actual power and the fear he puts in an opposing pitcher is more pressing than him being RH or even his AVG/OBP being good. That’s why someone like Granderson or Cruz, who aren’t all that great overall, still would be a reasonably nice fit at cleanup as they do have power and are perceived as a scary hitter, despite fairly poor avg/obp. I think both were even all-stars.

I can’t recall off hand if Granderson or Cruz are RH and have the splits we’re looking for, but better so if they are.

ugaaccountant

November 11th, 2009
4:31 pm

All those splits, we do have to remember we only face LHP about 1 out of 3 at bats, or less from glancing at those numbers. RHP is faced 2 out of 3 at bats.

Random

November 11th, 2009
4:32 pm

P. W. Hjort (November 11th, 2009 2:22 pm): “Do you remember what blog it was on that you were arguing with someone who thought it would be beneficial for Lowe for him to re-structure his contract to something like 4/40? That was one of the funnier arguments on the blog.”

Yes, I do. The fellow meant well.

(His heart, at least, was in the right place.)

O.J.

November 11th, 2009
4:32 pm

ugaaccountant, Granderson is horrible against left handed pitchers, and since 2 of the teams we play against have a few good lefties on their team, he is not the person you want batting cleanup.

P. W. Hjort

November 11th, 2009
4:33 pm

Random,

Which blog is it on?

DAP

November 11th, 2009
4:34 pm

p-town Just look at how well it worked out for the Phillies once they split up Howard and Ibanez and went Howard/Werth/Ibanez/Feliz in 4/5/6/7 in the lineup.

yeah, they could hardly score any runs at all before that.

DAP

November 11th, 2009
4:36 pm

N8DAP showed that the TEAM hit better technically against LHP. But when arguably your two best hitters in Mac and Escobar are basically neutralized against LHP, something has to be done. Or others will have to step up.

since the team hit better against lefties, doesnt that prove that the team DID step up?

nolie

November 11th, 2009
4:38 pm

hank you! I can’t stand people who say “prolly.” (Steve)

you prolly got sum kinda problem

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
4:42 pm

Neight But by showing how poor Mac and Escobar are against LHP…

Uh…allow me to butt in for a minute here: Hold the phone, please!

That was 2009 that BMac was poor against LHP. But you look at the seasons before that, and you get a bit of a different story:

2005: 36 AB, 2 2B, 2 HR, 5 RBI, 10 K, .333/.385/.556/.940

2006: 94 AB, 9 2B, 3 HR, 15 RBI, 19 K, .266/.352/.457/.809 (course, when compared to his season totals for that year, those aren’t so good)

2007: 174 AB, 10 2B, 8 HR, 37 RBI, 30 K, .264/.296/.460/.755

2008: 164 AB, 15 2B, 3 HR, 21 RBI, 22 K, .299/.375/.445/.820

So I mean, yeah, they’re not the greatest…but they’re not all poor, either.

N8

November 11th, 2009
4:42 pm

“All those splits, we do have to remember we only face LHP about 1 out of 3 at bats, or less from glancing at those numbers. RHP is faced 2 out of 3 at bats.” ugaaccountant

Yeah, but with Happ, Hamels and Lee, 3/5 of the Phillies rotation is LH. Add to that, in a 7 game playoff series, if a team’s best starter (CC Sabathia) is LH, you might face him 3 times.

But for me, I’m still thinking way more along the lines of late innings, when the real chess match begins. Most every team has one really good LH relief pitcher. Look what having both Gonzo and Eric O’Flare did for us in our pen last year.

If we’re too LH heavy in the lineup, the late innings becomes less of a chess match for opposing managers, and more like shooting fish in a barrel (has anybody really ever done that?).

Wayne in Utah

November 11th, 2009
4:42 pm

nolie

Steve prolly gotsa lot a prollems he needs to werk out.

nolie

November 11th, 2009
4:43 pm

I stand by my prediction that both Lowe and Vazquez will be traded! (Mitchie)

I’ll take that bet, even give you odds

N8

November 11th, 2009
4:45 pm

That’s fine and dandy McFann. But just like everybody wants to go off of Vazquez’s great 2009 stats (when his track record is mediocre at best other than his K-rat and IP), I’ll go with the recent trend until something changes.

No doubt in my mind, that Chipper and Mac were both pressing more than normal. At least until LaRoche was traded for. So perhaps it was a fluke and they can get back to what they did before last year.

I guess that’s why it’s so important to add some meat to the middle of the order.

wjones

November 11th, 2009
4:45 pm

“DAP

November 11th, 2009
4:10 pm
nolie

right here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=ATL&year=2009

in 2009 the braves hit .268/.339/.411 (.750 OPS) vs. lefties and .261/.339/.403 (.742 OPS) versus righties.

they might as well be identical, but they actually hit better vs lefties.”

A funny sidenote to this is that two of our favorite whipping boys, Kelly and Norton, hit MUCH better against LHP, but were used almost exclusively against RHP, where they did exceptionally bad. If Bobby had gone with the numbers instead of convention, we might have good words to say about those two today. Who knows, maybe we even get a playoff berth.

CB

November 11th, 2009
4:46 pm

I suggest we trade Vinings Jim for Venice Jim. What’s that? Same person? Nevermind.

ugaaccountant

November 11th, 2009
4:48 pm

I agree the phillies would be a tough playoff matchup for us, as would the yankees. But with our payroll, i’d be thrilled just to be in the playoffs, and would like our chances with Hanson/JJ/Hudson out there anyway.

I don’t hold out much hope against the premiere LH rp’s in close and late situations. Our lineup as currently constructed is more of a do well over the whole game lineup, than a just get some guys on base and let the cleanup guy work his magic lineup. If we’ve got a guy on 1b and 2 outs and a good reliever against us, I have no expectation that we’ll get that guy in.

This could all change if the right deal falls in our lap, but I don’t want to hold out all winter waiting if a great LH cleanup hitter is available at the right price.

McFann Ô

November 11th, 2009
4:56 pm

Neight

Oh, I totally get what you’re saying. Just throwin’ that out there. Huh, believe me, I want a differ’nt cleanup hitter more than any of y’all. ;)

Chipper and Mac were both pressing more than normal.

Ja…you combine the extra pressing with poor eyesight, and well…that’s what you get, I guess. Seriously, though, not a horrid season for a guy who was half-blind. Here’s to next year being a lot like ‘08, when he was coming off his first Lasik…just add s’more RBI and maybe one more double. :P

David O'Brien

November 11th, 2009
4:57 pm

Braveman, I like Granderson too (and not just because he’s a huge Jayhawks fan).

I just landed in rainy Atlanta. Able to get on a flight six hours earlier than my original flight, thankfully. Gonna write this story while I’m here at the ATL airport, then go to the Monsters of Folk concert tonight at Tabernacle.

nolie

November 11th, 2009
5:02 pm

(when his track record is mediocre at best other than his K-rat and IP) N8)

Nate Nate Nate, still spouting nonsense. :(

Mitchie-san

November 11th, 2009
5:02 pm

nolie,

Nah, I aint taking bets. Its just a prediction. I do think its the best thing to do, though.

Venice Jim

November 11th, 2009
5:02 pm

CB – are you sure – I liked Vinings Jim a lot better