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Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
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David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
10:45 am
Minor vs. Strasburg in the Rising Stars game on Saturday — and you can watch without being there. Just got this release:
The Arizona Fall League’s Rising Stars Game will be nationally televised by the MLB Network and online via MLB.com on Saturday night.
The Braves’ No. 1 pick in the 2009 Draft – LHP Mike Minor – will be the starting pitcher for the AFL West Division against the No. 1 overall pick, Stephen Strasburg, for the AFL East Division.
First pitch is set for 8:15 p.m. ET.
McFann Ô
November 5th, 2009
10:45 am
Good news about Timmy!
AL for ATL
November 5th, 2009
10:46 am
Nolie – I agree. I think Vazquez has the best trade value among the starting pitchers, but any team in that negotiation is going to point out that he’s only under contract for one more year and that he’s never had two years doing what he did for us last year. Plus, I think his comfort level in the Braves organization may have had a lot to do with his success this year.
I hope the Braves at least explore trading Lowe and eating some of his salary. Even if he alone wouldn’t fetch a good enough hitter, the Braves could package him with a prospect. Even if you eat $5-6 mil per year, that still leaves you with $9-10 mil to put towards whoever you pick up in the trade.
Or, try to get a closer and middle reliever for Lowe and pursue a free agent hitter using that $9-10 mil plus a little more. Matt Holliday is available and that dropped ball in the post season may be enough to make the Cards pass on him. Jason Bay would be nice, but I wouldn’t expect the Sox to let him go. If they’re ready to move Chipper to first, they could also pursue Chone Figgins. Vladimir Guerrero and Rick Ankiel are out there too.
The other problem with a rotation with Lowe and Hudson is that both somewhat of a question mark health and durability-wise at this point, so it’d be nice to have Javy in there as a workhorse with relative dependability.
beekay
November 5th, 2009
10:56 am
Lowe for Milton Bradley and a high level pitching prospect.
Why this works for Braves
1. Saves them 25 million (5 mil this year, 5 mil next and 15 mil the year after)
2. Bradley is on his last straw and he has potential to be a 30hr 100 rbi man, he is a switch hitter and Bobby can handle him.
3. We get a decent AAA prospect to backfill the rotation
4.KK takes over the 5th spot and we use the 5 mil savings with Loaf and Huddys savings to resign Roachie
5. If it works the Braves get their power hitter AND save 5 mill AND pick up prospect, if it doesn’t worse case scenario we save 25 mill and either trade or cut Bradley
Why it works for the Cubs
1. They get rid of someone who Pinella wants out and save 20 mill
2. They pick up a solid 200 inning guy with a great work ethic while giving up someone that is not in next years plans
Lew
November 5th, 2009
10:58 am
Al-I agree with you to a certain extent on Javy. I think you’re absolutely correct when you state his comfort level in ATlanta had much to do with his stellar season. However, do to the on agaon/off again nature of his career and his higher numbers in hitter’s parks, I’m betting his trade value is nowhere near as great as many seem to believer.
Personally, I would have attempted to extend Vazquez and let Hudson walk. I’m just afraid of previosuly injured pitchers and the fact they tend to miss more time that we can afford. I’m not at all certin we won’t see Hudson succumb to setbacks like torn scar tissue. It HAS been known to happen.
Since it looks like they Have re-signed him, I’d like to see them trade Lowe and his salary, even though I view Derek’s 09 season as an aberration and think he’ll return to form, I’d still rather keep Javy-for several moire years. I’m betting Jurrjens would, too.
Rock On......
November 5th, 2009
10:58 am
Keylargo….Agreed, something about this Hudson thing doesn’t seem right. So, delaying an announcement on a 30 mil contract because of needing an MRI that can’t be taken because of the player leaving for a charity event in Kansas? What? Priorities please. There has to be more to this. Hard to believe the Braves would allow that and real hard to believe Hudson wouldn’t want the contract inked prior to the weekend.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
11:03 am
beekay, i dont know if the braves want that potential problem. if it worked it would be fantastic, but i dont know…
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
11:03 am
Rock On: It’s not always simple, even for Braves, to get an MRI appt in non-emergency situation. And since there’s absolutely no rush — for you and me, yes, because we want the official announcement; but for Braves and Hudson, no, not important — why would they make him stay home to get MRI Friday afternoon or whatever if he’s already got a charity commitment and a flight to Kansas?
I mean, if you’re the Braves or Hudson, and you have a deal in hand, and you know he’s going to pass MRI since he’s had no setbacks and only gotten stronger since the last MRI, then why are you concerned about making official announcement? To appease fans and media? I don’t think so, man.
To them, they’re moving ahead with offseason plans, trades, etc. Hudson deal is not a concern now. When they release the news probably isn’t that important to them.
NCmike
November 5th, 2009
11:06 am
Bradley has never had more than 22 HR and 77 RBI in a season. And that was in the Texas “bang box”. Plus he’s only had more than 500 ABs once. Otherwise, not a bad option. Let’s face it, Jermaine Dye is going to be manning LF next year. I can dream of Bay or Holliday, but just dont see it happening.
RemoW
November 5th, 2009
11:10 am
A couple thoughts about salaries and post season.
The Yankees won the World Series. But if Philly had any serious pitching beyond Lee and Pedro. Yanks would not be celebrating right now.
Just consider that the Philly’s two big starters in the post season were not with the club at the All-star break. The Philly bullpen was awful. So Will (at 5:29) if you had taken the Braves pitching and the Philly’s offense I firmly believe that the Yanks would have lost. If the Braves had not been stuck with a 1/3 of the lineup being almost automatic outs for the 1st 2 months of the season. The Braves would have made the post season.
For those that have read “Moneyball” I believe what Billy Beane had to say about the post season. “I can build a team to get to the post season, but once the playoffs start it is a crap shoot.” (Paraphrasing, but that is the gist of the comment.) The Yanks got through the post season on 3 pitchers and AJ (thank god we didn’t sign him) Burnett has not be spectacular. The Yanks did not have to face much dominant pitching. The ones they did face handled them well.
Good pitching would have beat the Yanks.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
11:13 am
Bradley will never have a meltdown in Atlanta-at least not as a member of the Braves. He is EXACTLY the type of player the Braves will never sign.
beekay
November 5th, 2009
11:14 am
22hrs and 77 rbis would put him up with the braves leaders from last year in both categories, plus this would be his last chance and a burned bridge from someone like Bobby would finish his career
Lew
November 5th, 2009
11:16 am
beekay-Bobby’s only going to be here one more year and I’m relatively certain the Bravers won’t be importing headaches to make his Farewell Tour as much fun as it COULD be. Besides, Dude-Leopards don’t change their stripes. Bradley will remain Meltdown no matter who his manager is or what organization is dumb enough to sign him.
Rock On......
November 5th, 2009
11:16 am
Lew…..absolutely agree that Javy is comfortable and that has something to do with his success. Why wouldn’t it and what pitcher wouldn’t be more successful given that comfort. Hitter’s parks will skew the numbers but Javy has found a groove which I believe will continue in 2010. Gotta think Wren does too and after watching the Series it is hard to believe good hitting beats good pitching. I’m keeping my top starter, and extending his contract, before trading him for a big bat.
Assuming we do sign Hudson as indicated, and I am with you as you know that Hudson brings some degree of inflated risk post-TJ, it may be looking like the Braves best move is to trade Lowe and eat about 5 mil of his salary. The Braves’ pitching could go down a rocky road if they trade Vazquez, keep Lowe, and have Hudson develop complications. I simply can’t see Wren moving Vazquez. Having KK, Lowe, and Hudson as 3/5 of the rotation makes me real uneasy.
MCmike
November 5th, 2009
11:20 am
I hear ya beekay… I’m just not sure he can stay healthy enough to play a full season. His history has indicated otherwise…
beekay
November 5th, 2009
11:22 am
Lew
It would make sense for both teams…if he melts down again he is through with baseball he knows that…if it did happen cut his butt and bank the 25 mill savings and prospect . The Cubs would be thrilled to pay 5 mil extra for the exchange and just have to deal with that last year
Rock On......
November 5th, 2009
11:24 am
RemoW…please let everyone know I did not pay you to post that 11:10…spot on.
DOB….I was referring to leaving town with no contract and then get hurt or something weird happen. Seems he would want to be under contract. Hey, if it is a done deal it is a done deal. Just with last year and all, there is precedent for feeling a little weird about it. They certainly don’t need to announce it for any denizen’s benefit that is for sure.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
11:27 am
about jermaine dye…has he become the player he was in 2009, or did he just have a bad year? he has been up and down a bit in the last few years of his career…will he be up in 2010 or will he stay down? i ask because there is another player out there who had basically the same offensive season as dye, but plays excellent defense. if dye isnt going to OPS in the high .800s again (obviously no one knows this) id rather spend about the same (maybe less?) on mike cameron.
nolie, thats the first time ive mentioned him in like two weeks. just so you know.
or, make an offer to bobby abreu. dude can still play, had an OPS higher than dye or cameron in 2009.
F. Wren
November 5th, 2009
11:29 am
Pompous, Arrogant and Wrong Again, Rock on spouts his mindless chatter……………
This series was lost in game 4 without throwing your best pitcher in Lee to even the series. Girardi pulled out the stops by pitching his rotation on three days rest. If Manuel was playing it by the book he needs a new chapter. Advantage Girardi. Dumb as a Rock
Good column by Tom Boswell in the Washington Post today on starting pitcher’s on three days’ rest. My favorite part:
“Since 1999, pitchers starting a postseason games on three days’ rest against pitchers on full rest have a combined 12-36 record.
That’s not bad; it’s abysmal. Yet stark as this statistic is, its message may be even more blunt. Most of those 48 pitchers who started on three days’ rest were star hurlers or close to it. Nobody warps a postseason rotation so a donkey can start on short rest. You only do it for the studs. “
And just a final reminder of how wrong you are, here is the Braves history in the post season…
During Atlanta’s unprecedented, probably unmatchable playoff run of 1991 through 2005, Cox tried the short-rest thing nineteen times. The Braves lost thirteen of those games.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
11:32 am
beekay-Dude, Forget it. It is NOT happening. This guy’s history of poor behavior no matter where he goes and his history of extremely inconsistent play is not is something that would appeal to the Braves-believe it. Not so sure why you’re sold on the Dude. He’s a jerk and he ain’t all that anyway. We have pitching-a tradeable commodity in the poorest of times. Tradeable for better than Milton Meltdown.
Rock On (Dadgum)-IMO that they can trade Lowe and his entire contract, given the fact that pitching is so scarce and Lowe IS a proven commodity. LIke I’ve said before-no one gives much credence to wins as a definitive stat for pitchers in these days of Sabrmetric Lunacy (there you go- Steve from OH), but very few pitchers manage to win 1`5 games in a season and even fewer do it on an annual basis like Lowe does (even in a supposed terrible year). There will be takers.
The Yankees will be looking for more pitching -believe it. So will the Red Sox and Angels, especially if Lackey departs. They may npt get equal value in players in return, but they should be able to trade him without eating salary-which I seriously doubt they will do.
hoot
November 5th, 2009
11:38 am
I mentioned this earlier; I think that I would like to see Wren make a concentrated effort, even to the point of over paying, to send Escobar and Lowe, plus whatever else, to Houston for Pence and Tejada. Lowe and Tejada are close to equal from a salary standpoint, and Tejada would give the Braves time to get a shortstop down the road (also his and Escobar’s offense is not too far apart). Pense would give the Braves a potentially outstanding outfield in all respects.
A point in favor of signing Laroache ; a couple of years of Laroache would ease the pain of the Teixeria deal. Laroache is the last meaningful piece of that trade left on the Braves’ side of the ledger.
P. W. Hjort
November 5th, 2009
11:40 am
nolie (November 5, 2009 2:34 AM) I just do not have a lot of faith in that pen my friend.
What if the person dubbed “Late Innings Reliever” was Billy Wagner?
DAP
November 5th, 2009
11:43 am
hoot, i dont think thats a very good idea. escobar is staying put.
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
11:44 am
Here’s the full list of potential free agents, from Players Association:
PLAYER POSITION TEAM
1 Anderson, Garret OF AT
2 Gonzalez, Mike RP AT
3 Hudson, Tim ** SP AT
4 LaRoche, Adam 1B AT
5 Norton, Greg 1B/OF AT
6 Soriano, Rafael RP AT
7 Davis, Doug SP AZ
8 Schoeneweis, Scott D. RP AZ
9 Tracy, Chad 1B AZ
10 Webb, Brandon ** SP AZ
11 Baez, Danys RP BA
12 Hendrickson, Mark SP/RP BA
13 Moeller, Chad E. C BA
14 Mora, Melvin 3B BA
15 Baldelli, Rocco OF BO
16 Bay, Jay OF BO
17 Byrd, Paul SP BO
18 Gonzalez, Alex ** SS BO
19 Martinez, Victor ** C BO
20 Varitek, Jason A. ** C BO
21 Wagner, Billy RP BO
22 Wakefield, Tim SP BO
23 Woodward, Chris 3B BO
24 Fox, Chad D. RP CC
25 Grabow, John RP CC
26 Gregg, Kevin RP CC
27 Harden, Rich SP CC
28 Johnson, Reed OF CC
29 Hernandez, Ramon J. ** C CI
30 Wells, Kip SP CI
31 Carroll, Jamey 2B/3B/0F CL
32 Ohka, Tomokazu SP/RP CL
33 Beimel, Joe RP CO
34 Betancourt, Rafael ** RP CO
35 Contreras, Jose SP CO
36 Embree, Alan RP CO
37 Fogg, Josh SP/RP CO
38 Giambi, Jason 1B CO
39 Herges, Matt RP CO
40 Marquis, Jason SP CO
41 Rincon, Juan RP CO
42 Torrealba, Yorvit ** C CO
43 Castro, Ramon Abraham C CWS
44 Dotel, Octavio E. RP CWS
45 Dye, Jermaine ** OF CWS
46 Podsednik, Scott OF CWS
47 Everett, Adam SS DE
48 Huff, Aubrey 1B/3B DE
49 Lyon, Brandon RP DE
50 Polanco, Placido 2B DE
51 Rodney, Fernando RP DE
52 Washburn, Jarrod SP DE
53 Calero, Kiko RP FL
54 Donnelly, Brendan RP FL
55 Gload, Ross 1B/OF FL
56 Johnson, Nick 1B FL
57 Boone, Aaron J. 1B/3B HO
58 Brocail, Doug ** RP HO
59 Erstad, Darin 1B/OF HO
60 Hampton, Mike SP HO
61 Hawkins, LaTroy RP HO
62 Michaels, Jason OF HO
63 Tejada, Miguel O. SS HO
64 Valverde, Jose RP HO
65 Chen, Bruce SP/RP KC
66 Crisp, Coco ** OF KC
67 Olivo, Miguel ** C KC
68 Wright, Jamey RP KC
69 Abreu, Bob OF LAA
70 Escobar, Kelvim J. SP LAA
71 Figgins, Chone 3B LAA
72 Guerrero, Vladimir OF/DH LAA
73 Lackey, John SP LAA
74 Oliver, Darren RP LAA
75 Quinlan, Robb 1B/3B/OF LAA
76 Ausmus, Brad C LAD
77 Belliard, Ron 2B LAD
78 Castro, Juan G. 2B/SS LAD
79 Garland, Jon SP LAD
80 Hudson, Orlando 2B LAD
81 Loretta, Mark D. 1B/2B/3B LAD
82 Mientkiewicz, Doug A. 1B LAD
83 Milton, Eric R. SP LAD
84 Mota, Guillermo RP LAD
85 Ohman, Will ** RP LAD
86 Padilla, Vicente SP LAD
87 Ramirez, Manny ** OF LAD
88 Schmidt, Jason SP LAD
89 Thome, Jim DH/1B LAD
90 Weaver, Jeff C. SP LAD
91 Wolf, Randy SP LAD
92 Cameron, Michael OF MI
93 Catalanotto, Frank OF MI
94 Counsell, Craig J. 2B/3B/SS MI
95 Kendall, Jason C MI
96 Looper, Braden L. ** RP MI
97 Lopez, Felipe 2B/3B/SS/OF MI
98 Patterson, Corey OF MI
99 Vargas, Claudio SP/RP MI
100 Weathers, Dave ** RP MI
101 Cabrera, Orlando L. SS MN
102 Crede, Joe 3B MN
103 Mahay, Ron RP MN
104 Pavano, Carl SP MN
105 Redmond, Mike P. C MN
106 Cora, Alex 2B/SS NYM
107 Delgado, Carlos 1B NYM
108 Dessens, Elmer RP NYM
109 Martinez, Ramon E. 2B/SS NYM
110 Putz, J.J. ** RP NYM
111 Schneider, Brian C NYM
112 Sheffield, Gary OF NYM
113 Tatis, Fernando 1B/3B/OF NYM
114 Damon, Johnny OF NYY
115 Hairston Jr, Jerry 2B/3B/SS/OF NYY
116 Hinske, Eric 1B/OF NYY
117 Matsui, Hideki OF NYY
118 Molina, Jose C NYY
119 Nady, Xavier OF NYY
120 Pettitte, Andy SP NYY
121 Crosby, Bobby SS OA
122 Duchscherer, Justin SP OA
123 Garciaparra, Nomar 1B OA
124 Kennedy, Adam 2B OA
125 Tomko, Brett D. SP OA
126 Bako, Paul C PH
127 Cairo, Miguel J. IF PH
128 Eyre, Scott RP PH
129 Feliz, Pedro ** 3B PH
130 Lee, Cliff ** SP PH
131 Martinez, Pedro SP PH
132 Myers, Brett SP PH
133 Park, Chan Ho SP PH
134 Stairs, Matt OF PH
135 Blanco, Henry C SD
136 Giles, Brian S. OF SD
137 Batista, Miguel SP/RP SE
138 Bedard, Erik SP SE
139 Beltre, Adrian 3B SE
140 Branyan, Russ 1B SE
141 Chavez, Endy OF SE
142 Griffey Jr, Ken DH/OF SE
143 Sweeney, Mike 1B/DH SE
144 Wilson, Jack ** SS SE
145 Aurilia, Rich 1B/3B SF
146 Howry, Bob RP SF
147 Johnson, Randy SP SF
148 Molina, Bengie C SF
149 Penny, Brad SP SF
150 Uribe, Juan 2B/3B/SS SF
151 Winn, Randy OF SF
152 Ankiel, Rick OF SL
153 De Rosa, Mark 3B SL
154 Glaus, Troy 3B SL
155 Greene, Khalil SS/3B SL
156 Holliday, Matt OF SL
157 LaRue, Jason C SL
158 Pineiro, Joel SP SL
159 Smoltz, John SP SL
160 Wellemeyer, Todd SP SL
161 Bradford, Chad RP TB
162 Crawford, Carl ** OF TB
163 Isringhausen, Jason RP TB
164 Percival, Troy RP TB
165 Shouse, Brian ** RP TB
166 Springer, Russ RP TB
167 Zaun, Gregg ** C TB
168 Benoit, Joaquin RP TE
169 Blalock, Hank 3B TE
170 Byrd, Marlon OF TE
171 Guardado, Eddie A. RP TE
172 Jones, Andruw OF TE
173 Rodriguez, Ivan T. C TE
174 Vizquel, Omar SS TE
175 Barajas, Rod C TO
176 McDonald, John 3B/SS TO
177 Millar, Kevin OF TO
178 Scutaro, Marco 2B/SS TO
179 Bard, Josh C WA
180 Hernandez, Livan SP WA
181 Kearns, Austin ** OF WA
182 Villone, Ron RP WA
183 Young, Dmitri 1B WA
** Potential Free Agent Per Contract Terms
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
11:46 am
I mentioned this earlier; I think that I would like to see Wren make a concentrated effort, even to the point of over paying, to send Escobar and Lowe, plus whatever else, to Houston for Pence and Tejada. Lowe and Tejada are close to equal from a salary standpoint, and Tejada would give the Braves time to get a shortstop down the road… — Hoot
Can I ask why they would do that, when they have an exceptional young shortstop who’s not even arb-eligible yet? I don’t understand your reasoning at all.
beekay
November 5th, 2009
11:49 am
just curious, how much money could Wagner get coming off surgery? I wouldn’t pay more than 5 mill. I remember when Gagne got 10 mill after his injury and thought it was nuts…sur enough he lasted one bad year
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
11:53 am
DOB….I was referring to leaving town with no contract and then get hurt or something weird happen. Seems he would want to be under contract. Hey, if it is a done deal it is a done deal. — Rock On
If it’s not a done deal, then the Braves probably aren’t pleased that Hudson was on the team’s new flagship radio station while ago, talking about how happy he is to be staying for another three years, etc. And there was no mention of the MRI in that interview, by the way, just a conversation as if the deal is already completed. (Huddy told me after that about still needing the MRI.)
He’s going to LaRoche’s charity country-music event like the one that Huddy himself will have this month in Peachtree City. He’s not going to skydive or climb a mountain.
What, is every free agent out there supposed to live in a protective bubble until he’s signed and the contract is filed?
Lew
November 5th, 2009
11:54 am
Maybe we could sign Mr. November-Hideki Matsui. Then Kawakami would have someone other than his translator to talk with. How’s that for Front Office logic?
Supes
November 5th, 2009
11:54 am
I still say Derek Lowe can be moved to the NY Yankees.
Look, if anything this WS against the Phillies proved a couple of things. They only have 3 starters they trust to start in the playoffs. Jaba isn’t reliable. Phil Hughes, who knows what will become of him…a closer, set up guy, is he a starter? C.M. Wang may never come back to what he really was before the injuries, he then had an astronomical ERA and bombed (in his attempt to come back this season).
Yankees will need another veteran proven starter who is 1. An innings guy 2. A sinker baller ground ball pitcher (to counter the bandbox that is New Yankees Stadium).
Money is not an issue with the Yankees.
Derek Lowe could be moved to NY (for the remained of the 3 years owed 45 million), question is…what can the potential piece back in a trade be? Will the Yankees want the Braves to take on some salary? I can’t see them giving the Braves a minor leaguer or two in the return…Braves would want an OF…Nick Swisher? (Salaries not even out, but then again…Yankees can afford it people). They just won the WS, and will spend more money in the off-season to meet their needs.
Yankees need another established, veteran SP who will ensure them a 4 man rotation in the future where they won’t have to start people on 3 days rest throughout the playoffs.
Plus, Wang and Jaba are not the answer to their (back end rotation issues).
Solution for Brian Cashman…Derek Lowe from our ATL. Braves.
DOB, what say you?
Lew
November 5th, 2009
11:55 am
Gagne’s available.
smitty
November 5th, 2009
11:55 am
When are they going to announce Norton’s deal with the Braves
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
11:55 am
beekay, that’s a good question. I don’t know that anyone knows for certain what Wagner will command on open market, just as Braves aren’t sure what Gonzo will get.
Wagner did come back and pitch enough, with same velocity he always had, to give teams reasons to believe he’s OK. And recurrence of same injury after TJ surgery is uncommon (it does happen, but not often — pitchers who haven’t had the injury are more likely to have it than pitchers who’ve had it are likely to have it again).
The fact that Wagner required the Red Sox to pledge NOT to pick up his $10 mill option for 2010 before he was traded is probably some indication of how much he and his agent believe he can get on the open market.
P. W. Hjort
November 5th, 2009
11:56 am
DOB
Can I ask why they would do that, when they have an exceptional young shortstop who’s not even arb-eligible yet? I don’t understand your reasoning at all.
Especially considering Tejada is a free agent.
Supes
November 5th, 2009
11:57 am
If the Braves can move Derek Lowe, I can see them extending Javy Vazquez to a 3 year contract (similar to what they offered Tim Hudson).
That would ensure that the entire rotation stays in tact for a 3 year run starting next year.
Daslied
November 5th, 2009
11:57 am
Hoot, Tejada is a free agent as of today.
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
11:58 am
Supes, I say Lowe-to-Yankees doesn’t seem entirely far-fetched to me, either. But they (Yankees) have made a point of at least trying not to just throw around money on questionable deals the way they did in the past. So we’ll see.
Haven’t heard anything of their potential interest, but they’ve been a little busy since regular season ended.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
11:59 am
Supes-For once, you and I are in agreement. Lowe can be moved along with his entire contract. He’s got an excellent track record for winning games year in and year out, stays off of the DL (and has throughout his career) and pitches 200 innings (or damned close to it) every year. $15 mil is really not that huge a contract in the scheme of good pitching.
Just because he was not OUR number 1 or 2 guy last year, doesn’t mean he would be the number 5 starter anywhere else.
Daslied
November 5th, 2009
12:00 pm
Supes, of course the Yankees are probably able to afford Lowe. But ability and desire are not the same thing.
P. W. Hjort
November 5th, 2009
12:00 pm
Supes,
You’re forgetting one thing. It’s the Yankees. If you’re Brian Cashman, do you say, “I can trade for Derek Lowe and be slightly more economical, or I can go out and sign John Lackey and get a much superior pitcher, might need to lean toward the economic side there”? I don’t know, maybe he does.
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
12:01 pm
Hoot-
Yet again another Escobar hater. THATS JUST PLAIN DUMB! You DO NOT trade a FRANCHISE SHORTSTOP!
beekay-
I only would swing that trade to Chicago if Jeff Samardzija were the pitcher coming back with Bradley.
NCMike-
I guess I just don’t understand the ppl continuously knocking Jermaine…
Here’s his HR and RBI totals from the last 5 years:
27/81
34/96
28/78
44/120
31/86
23/80
His year average is 30/99 so while I understand the defensive issues, I just don’t get how he doesn’t instantly make our team better in LF? Sure he’s no Holliday or Bay and yes, he is getting older, but I still feel he has something left in the tank for 2010.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
12:02 pm
PWH-And if the Yankees DO sign Lackey, the Angels, who also have bundles of bucks, will be looking for pitching and Lowe has been successful in sunny Southern California.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
12:04 pm
PTown-A defensive liabiltiy and he has three straight years of declining numbers-in a HITTER’S park. Let’s pass on Dye, thank you.
Flat Bill Kid
November 5th, 2009
12:05 pm
So out of those FA’s I could see us going for any of these:
Bay
Wagner
Dye
Abreu
Figgins
Cameron
Holliday
I would rather sign Wagner and Cameron for financial and “need” reasons out of those. Heyward will add a bat to the lineup some time this season. A 1B bat seems to be what we are gonna be trading for.
beekay
November 5th, 2009
12:06 pm
P-Town how about Marmol?
Lew-Godzilla is a lefty we need RH
Supes-Yanks will get Lackey or Halladay
bravofan
November 5th, 2009
12:07 pm
Send Andruw an invitation to spring training!
JUST SAYING
November 5th, 2009
12:09 pm
These songs would have been more appropriate to play when the Yankees won.
1. It’s All about the Benjamins – Puff Daddy
2. Money Changes Everything – Cyndi Lauper
3. Money – Pink Floyd
Money, its a gas.
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think Ill buy me a football (baseball) team.
O.J.
November 5th, 2009
12:09 pm
Plus, adding on to what DOB and Supes are saying, the Yankees could use a groundball pitcher in that ballpark, and someone that can give them the same production as A.J. Burnett for about 1.5 million less. And did I mention he is a groundball pitcher who gives up fewer homers than Burnett?
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
12:11 pm
Cameron is just average and I’d rather not go that route.
I feel like anyone who signs Lackey is going to regret it. Can’t really explain it, but he’s just never really impressed me much.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
12:11 pm
beekay-I was joking about Matsui.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
12:13 pm
PTown-Lackey never impressed me much either, but it just proves my point-Pitching this year, is at a huge premium. He and Lowe will both go without much difficulty. There just aren’t many pitchers of their caliber available this time around.
CB
November 5th, 2009
12:14 pm
I’m sure there are many trade possibilities out there if the Braves are able to free themselves from Lowe’s contract.The starting pitching salary conbined would be app.30mil which by baseball standards is not bad,especially the quality of our starters. It frees Wren and his mgmt to go many ways with thought process. They could bring in a big time free agent like Holliday or trade for a big contract like Fielder or Cabrera. It could allow them to think outside the box with scenarios that none of us may have thought of.
Supes
November 5th, 2009
12:16 pm
The Yankees could go after John Lackey, I’m not disagreeing with people who say they can target and acquire him if they wanted to. Question then becomes, does Lackey want to go to NY (maybe he’s not a New York type of guy…Randy Johnson anyone?), or will Derek Lowe be cheaper than Lackey in FA? Lowe is already signed to a 3 year 45 million dollar deal…which is probably LESS than what Lackey will command in FA (considering the weak crop of SP available this off-season). That means someone less “talanted” will make lots of money, b/c teams will be out bidding each other for the handful of available starters in FA.
In conclusion..this makes Derek Lowe or a Javy Vazquez a very viable option for a trade.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
12:17 pm
the yankees are going to need a pitcher, but youve got to look at the free agents before thinking they might want lowe. when i look at the FA starters, and see maybe 3 guys who the yankees could want more than lowe. not alot of guys out there who are better than derek lowe, bad year and all.
petit is a free agent. im not sure if the yankees will bring him back, since they barely did for 2009. they are going to have to sign at least one starter, probably two.
by the way, what will the phillies do for their rotation? pedro and brett myers are both free agents, blanton and cliff lee have one year left before free agency. the phillies will be signing at least one pitcher…i wonder who they will go after?
brian
November 5th, 2009
12:17 pm
just saw on ESPN again the awful UGA uniforms/helmets they wore against UF. What were they thinking? They looked like Grambling and played like them too. Not wearing the red helmets is a serious faux pas. The black jerseys once a year for a big home game is fine – it gets everybody fired up and for a night game it does look better, but what they did against UF they looked like a division I-AA school at best.
brian
November 5th, 2009
12:18 pm
no way will Milton Bradley be a Brave. He and his attitude are the anti-Braves. If the Braves were considering dealing Escobar for attitude issues why would they take an expensive flier on Bradley?
Supes
November 5th, 2009
12:18 pm
Lackey could go 4-5 years 60+ million. Would the Yankees rather have that than Derek Lowe for 45 million and only 3 years?
richbrave
November 5th, 2009
12:18 pm
With PROCTOR in the house, MFIKY and his $6 mill are his-to-ry!!!! Probably GONZALEZ as well. Boy I hope SCOTT’s surgeries are successful. I’m sure the BRAVES feel that way, or they wouldn’t have offered a one-year deal. Now decision to sign GONZO or not. HUDSON’s all but announced for three. So BRAVES have to be shopping VASQUEZ, and probably to a lesser extent LOWE, and KAWAKAMI. Whichever brings the BRAVES what they need will probably the odd-man out. Likely to be JAVY. I surely hope not however. My choice is LOWE. He may rebound like he did in the early part of the 2009 season, but he should be gone, IMHO.
HITTERS can’t be signed until the pitching’s been sorted out because JV might bring a big bat at 1st or OF. If JAVY stays, and LOWE or KAWAKAMI go, a lesser bat would obviously be in the offing, in which case LaROCHE probably would be signed for two.
HEYWARD should be in the mix if he has a monster ST. If not, then providing he doesn’t run into serious problems at GWINNETT, expect him up after the arb clock goes off for 2010. DIAZ stays. CHURCH and JOHNSON may both be gone depending on what’s out there in bench-material. JORDAN SCHAFER and BRANDON JONES should be given ST shots to make the club as the twenty-fifth man. Certainly one goes along with NORTON who hopefully is already toast as a BRAVE.
brian
November 5th, 2009
12:20 pm
Vazquez will not be heading back to the Yankees but Lowe may be a viable option for the yankees. At 3 years $45 million he will be cheaper than anything they would get on the market and with only 3 years left on his deal that would lessen the risk of a prolonged deal that someone like Lackey would receive. It would allow us to keep Vazquez but we would have to somewhere find a power right handed hitter. Would Vlad take a 1-2 year deal with incentives?
N8
November 5th, 2009
12:21 pm
I think a guy like Fernando Tatis would be a nice bench/backup corner IF kind of guy.
I guess right now, I’m looking at the fringe guys that can help fill a role, rather than looking for a big splash. I don’t think anybody on that free agent list fixes any of our everyday needs (other than just re-signing LaRoche).
I still say check in with Smoltz and see if he’s interested in coming in out of the pen. If he could be had really cheap, and Wagner could be acquired, that wouldn’t be a bad backend of the pitching staff with Moylan and O’Flare out there as well.
I just seriously doubt that Smoltz would ever pitch in pen again, much less do it in a Braves uniform.
Not to go down the path of beaten horses. But Derosa would also be a nice addition. Dude can literally play anywhere, and can fill in long term at any position in case of an injury. Just probably going to cost too much on open market, for him to be put in a bench/utility role.
But in the end, I think our big acquisition comes via trade, not the open market. Just nothing worth overspending on, on the market. Unless Wren really thinks he could land Holliday or Bay. Then by all means, go for it.
Supes
November 5th, 2009
12:21 pm
DOB,
wanted to agree with you on SOA and Mad Men…both of last week’s episodes were outstanding. Looking forward to Mad Men’s season finale (this saturday).
A little watched but very high quality show…Friday Night Lights returned for a 4th season last week. It’s on the DirectTV channel on Wed. Nights, so those (like me who don’t get it) have to watch it online or wait until 2010 to air on NBC. Anyways, I wanna say S4 has been as quality as their earlier seasons and worth checking out if you like a very good character driven (ensamble) dramas.
Supes
November 5th, 2009
12:22 pm
Mad Men season finale on Sunday..correction:)
DAP
November 5th, 2009
12:23 pm
p-townCameron is just average and I’d rather not go that route.
yet you endorse dye. check their stats and youll see that they were virtually the same offensive player in 2009, with cameron playing much better defense. i posted above about the two players. if dye cant OPS in the high .800s, cameron is a better option.
Supes
November 5th, 2009
12:24 pm
N8,
Smoltz ain’t coming back sir. Not while Wren is GM of the Braves. Unless a miracle happens…I don’t see John Smoltz’s ego having him come back for a reduced salary here and as a reliever (to boot).
I say Braves will retain Gonzo (have to, with all those power LH sticks the Phillies have) and with Moyland that will solidify the back of the Braves pen. You won’t need John Smoltz.
Jake W.
November 5th, 2009
12:29 pm
“I still say check in with Smoltz and see if he’s interested in coming in out of the pen. If he could be had really cheap, and Wagner could be acquired, that wouldn’t be a bad backend of the pitching staff with Moylan and O’Flare out there as well.
I just seriously doubt that Smoltz would ever pitch in pen again, much less do it in a Braves uniform.”- N8
Smoltzie ain’t coming back. Not the way he left and the way he performed last year. He sounds like he wants to be back with the Cards and I also think he left for more than just the money, he wants to win and he may see the Cards in that division as an easier path to the playoffs. I’m not sure I would even want to old guys at the back of the pen anyway. I think Wren would be weary too after what happen in 2008 when we had Glavine and Smoltz in the rotation and lost them.
N8
November 5th, 2009
12:32 pm
Supes. I agree. It isn’t going to happen. Also agree that Wren will make a hardline effort to keep The Cobra in a Braves uni. With he, Moylan and O’Flare out there (along with any number of young guys stepping up), the bullpen should be fine and of course an arm can always be added later. To me, bullpen help is the easiest thing to acquire mid-season. So, no need to overspend on it in December.
But Gonzo or Soriana (one of them) needs to be kept to at least go into 2010 with some sort of lockdown capability out there.
The more I think about it, if the Braves are looking for 1 or 2 year stop gap, Dye might be the answer. His defense is certainly good enough for LF (he can’t possibly be any worse than Loaf out ther – after all – he USED TO BE a good outfielder).
He might not get any MVP votes at season’s end. But he’s a threat and he’s RH and he’s not going to require Wren to go 3+ years on a contract. If he can be had for around 5-6 milliong (the difference in Lowe’s and Hudson’s salary if Lowe is dumped). It’s a no brainer.
I think a move like that is a better fit than giving 30 year old Jason Bay or 29 year old Matt Holliday each 15 million per year over 4 or 5 years. Short term, those guys probably offer more than Dye does. But the flexibility of being out from Dye’s contract in a year or two is where the value of him is. Either way, he’s an upgrade over Loaf. Not that Loaf didn’t give us pretty much exactly what he projected to. But an upgrade none the less.
abwright
November 5th, 2009
12:33 pm
I know it would be an inside the division trade, but, how about Greg Norton for Matt Stairs? Both guys might benefit from a change in scenery.
Random, If the Braves pull off this trade (which I think will make or break the 2010 Braves), I’m not sure how this will affect our bet, but I would assume that it would be off.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
12:44 pm
abwright-I do not believe that Norton is even under contract at this point in time and I seriously doubt the Braves hold any right to him so they can’t trade him. Unless I’m sadly mistaken, he’s already a Free Agent. Thank God.
Rob (from SC) no more arm brace
November 5th, 2009
12:50 pm
DOB
DO you have a list of players who need to be placed on the 40 man roster to protect them from the Rule V Draft?
monty
November 5th, 2009
12:55 pm
Alot of talk on here today about the possiblity of trading Lowe to the Yanks. I put forth that same idea way back in June or whenever it was that he started his first “swoon”. Thought the Yanks with their deep pockets could handle his contract with no problems, his sinking fastball would be a great match for their smaller park versus a 4 seam guy like Javy. Lot of doubts and criticisms back then, good to see a few people embracing at least the idea!
Rodney Derrick
November 5th, 2009
12:55 pm
Hey guys before I head to Galapagos tomorrow to commune with the whale sharks, giant turtles, hammerheads and eagle rays, just thought I would ask why no one mentions Marlon Byrd, Atlanta native who really found his stroke this year in Texas and is a free agent. Somehow unload Derek Lowe (even though his first name sounds like my last name) and maybe even KK, and resign LaRoche for two years or perhaps even one year with a generous second year option and you still have the money for Byrd, who is still relatively young with decent speed. In his NY Times column, Doug Glanville had high praise for Byrd who he says has really come into his own at last. That combo would be good in the field and powerful at bat. Then re-sign Mike Gonzalez and one other strong closer possibility. With Moylan for right handed hitters, you have a good bullpen. I prefer to see Medlen start, but he is versatile too and a competitor and will adapt, depending on the club’s needs. This gives Heyward, Shafer, and Freeman some development time, though surely Heyward should be up with the big club by June.
AL for ATL
November 5th, 2009
12:56 pm
Tim K on ESPN this morning was talking about how Cashman has been making a concerted effort to avoid overpaying past-their-prime pitchers, a la Randy Johnson. Not sure they would spend $9-10 mil a year on Lowe let alone the full $15 mil to bring him to a tough division with a DL in a hitters’ park, especially when they could get a younger guy for just a little more money (by Yankees standards). I think Lowe would be the last guy they looked at, and who would we get back from the Yankees? Not sure anyone on their team that they’d part with meets our needs (but I don’t know their roster well enough).
reagan
November 5th, 2009
1:00 pm
DOB…………any chance the Braves have ALREADY talked to Javy about a contract? (SOMEwhat of a home discount offered?)
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
1:01 pm
DAP-
And Cameron also puts the ball in play 10% less of the time than Dye.
Can you name me the last time Mike Cameron had 400+ AB’s and hit above .270?
Dye has done it 6 times in his career BTW.
Cameron – 4 25+ HR seasons Dye – 8
Cameron – 1 90+ RBI season Dye – 5
BravesfaninWis
November 5th, 2009
1:01 pm
Enter your comments here
DAP
November 5th, 2009
1:03 pm
N8, is dye a better option than mike cameron? will dye outperform cameron offensively? he didnt in 2009. and dye certainly wont out perform cameron defensively.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
1:05 pm
Monty-Five months reflection and occurrences make much difference in viewpoint, IMO. Back then, we were looking at the situation much differently and were thinking it would be quite difficult to pass the contract onward.
The way things look now, the potential for trading that large a contract looks much better now than it did then. Holding Vazquez longer term now looks like a much better deal now, as well after the results he posted throughout the season as opposed to just up to JUne.
BravesfaninWis
November 5th, 2009
1:05 pm
Finally, now some excitement can start happening. As for the Yankees possibly taking on Lowe and perhaps sending us Swisher, not gonna happen. With Damon and Matsui both free agents, Swisher is sticking around. Its possible that the Yankees don’t bring either one back, so Swisher is a great insurance policy to have in NY. He would be a great fit here though, and I love how he is a switch hitter with power. I just don’t think there is any way possible a deal like that happens.
P. W. Hjort
November 5th, 2009
1:07 pm
Man, Jim Callis is killing me:
With a good showing after he signed and a fine performance in the Arizona Fall League, has lefthander Mike Minor shed the notion that he wasn’t worthy of being drafted seventh overall by the Braves?
Phil Jones
Burke, Va.
————————
No one ever has disputed the fact that Minor can really pitch. He does a nice job of mixing and locating his fastball, curveball, slider and changeup. He has been very impressive in four starts at low Class A Rome (though that’s a small sample size) and in four brief outings in the AFL (a smaller sample size, and you shouldn’t read too much into AFL stats).
Still, Minor doesn’t have a true plus pitch beyond his changeup and his fastball usually operates in the upper 80s. His realistic ceiling is as a No. 3 starter, it’s easier to project him as a No. 4 and it’s not difficult to draw parallels between him and another Vanderbilt finesse lefthander who was a top-10 choice, Jeremy Sowers.
Was Minor a worthy first-rounder? Yes. Would have I taken him seventh overall? Not a chance. One of the reasons teams complain that the draft doesn’t distribute talent equitably is the clubs won’t take the best player available. Atlanta wouldn’t exceed MLB’s bonus recommendation at No. 7, though they mistakenly budgeted for the 2008 figure ($2.42 million) rather than the reduced 2009 number ($2.178 million) because the commissioner’s office didn’t give them the amount quickly enough. That limited their choices, though former Braves scouting director Roy Clark (now assistant GM with the Nationals) was a big believer in Minor. Clark loved Tyler Matzek, too, but didn’t have the budget to sign him.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
1:09 pm
Al-Randy Johnson and Derek Lowe are apples and kumquats here, Dude. Johnson is what? 43? Last year he was also coming off of surgery and was only coming back to try for 300 wins. Lowe is 37 and coming off of yet another 15 win season, having never been on the DL and logging close to 200 IP yet again. No comparison whatsoever.
TnBrian
November 5th, 2009
1:10 pm
I think I’ve made my point clear on here how much I’d like to see the Braves extend Vazquez. But, say if the Cubs were willing to do a Lee/Vazquez swap, even I wouldn’t complain about that. Now he’s a serious presence in the middle of the lineup that plays GG type defense. Hopefully Wren would only consider trading Javy for a bat/glove like a Derek Lee.
Anybody else feel kinda “BLAH” about the Hudson resigning, or is that just me? I’m just not excited about it. I like Hudson & all, but #3 starters signing with my team don’t thrill me. Yeah, he’s a #3 or even #4 guy in Atlanta’s rotation right now– to me anyways.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
1:16 pm
PTown-Talking about 25+ HR and 90+HR seasons for Dye at this point in time is basically absurd. He hasn’t done either since 08(as of the start 2010) and hasn’t had 90 RBI since 07. Yeah, he may have done it in the past, but isn’t likely to do it again and certainly not at Turner Field.
But hey- people keep claiming Hudson was a 20 game winner, too. He was, but sure as hell not since being traded five years ago. When a player does something earlier in their career, it surely doesn’t mean it will translate to later career performance.
Now, I’m not claiming like DAP that Cameron is the answer, but Dye isn’t either.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
1:16 pm
ptownAnd Cameron also puts the ball in play 10% less of the time than Dye.
this seriously matters to you? they get on base at virtually the same rate (cameron has a slight edge) so it make you happy that dye grounds out and cameron strikes out? good for you, man.
good point about dye having a better BA, though ill say again, they get on base at basically the same rate, which is more important than BA. you are also right that dye has displayed more power in his career. all im saying is that if dye is going to OPS .790 again in 2010, ill take cameron who will mirror dye offensively and play much better defense.
of course, no one knows for sure what dye will do…but im not real confident he will come in to atlanta and OPS in the high .800s.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
1:18 pm
lewI’m not claiming like DAP that Cameron is the answer,
never said it lew. take it back.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
1:19 pm
TnBRian-The Cubs will not do a Lee/ Vazquez swap. Why do you or anyone else seriously think they would? You think that a fly ball/K type pitcher is a bigger asset at Wrigley than a power hitting, high average, slick fielding first baseman? I don’t.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
1:20 pm
one thing i will say for dye is that he was having a great season until august. he really nose dived the last two months. cameron’s season was more up and down.
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
1:20 pm
DAP-
Ground outs can drive in runs, strike outs do nothing.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
1:21 pm
DAP-Dude, what in the world are you talking about? You’ve been plugging for Cameron for weeks like he was your brother in law or you were his agent. You may not think him the panacea for all of our ills, but you damned well have advocated for him like it was your mission in life.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
1:22 pm
p-townGround outs can drive in runs, strike outs do nothing.
they can also turn into two outs instead of one. seriously dude, thats stupid. dont hang your jermaine dye hat on that. the rest of the stuff you posted is much better.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
1:23 pm
DAP-And if you deny that, maybe Random needs to do a Pepperidge Blog Remembers episode on you and the subject.
TnBrian
November 5th, 2009
1:25 pm
Lew, I get in those bad moods too. Just take a deep breath and think of something you like. Anger just isn’t good for your health.
Supes
November 5th, 2009
1:26 pm
I’m excited the Braves signed Hudson. You can’t have too much starting pitching depth, and often startes 3-5 are the reason teams win their respective divisions. Braves are ensured to have the most compelete 1-5 rotation in the NL with the signing of Tim Hudson to the staff.
Every other team has to “struggle” to find serviceable 4 and 5 starters, the Braves will not have such a problem (if they avoid health issues). A winning record out of the 4 and 5 slots will go a long way toward increasing our chances at winning the NL East and going back to the playoffs in 2010.
Phillies are close with Lee, Hamels, Blanton and Happ…but who is going to be their number 5? the ancient Jamie Moyer? Pedro? (they are not sure things).
I’d throw the Braves 4 and 5 starters against anyone as far as ERA and projected ERA/WHIP in 2010.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
1:26 pm
lewYou may not think him the panacea for all of our ills,
thank you. apology accepted. by the way, i havent even mentioned cameron for at least two weeks until today.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
1:28 pm
TnBRian-Why do you think I’m angry? Because I voiced a couple of opinions you or someone else don’t happen to agree with?
Nothing could be further from the truth. I’m not angry or upset in the least and have no idea why you think I am. I haven’t called anyone any names, haven’t called anyone’s intelligence into question and haven’t made any statements I can’t back up with facts and figures.
Lew
November 5th, 2009
1:31 pm
DAP-Whatever, I didn’t apologize because there was nothing at all to apologize for. AS for whatever time you have or haven’t proposed acquiring Cameron. You really think I sit here and count the days or just forgot to turn over the hour glass I use to time you?
Daslied
November 5th, 2009
1:31 pm
Rodney – away from Arlington, Byrd kind of looks like a RH, older Nate McLouth.
CB
November 5th, 2009
1:34 pm
Put a slugging leftfielder,a good hitting first baseman and Heyward coming and suddenly we match up much better with the Phillies. This team is only a couple of players away from being a powerhouse in the NL.
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
1:34 pm
Rob: No, I don’t have such a list. Those are tough to figure out because of the different rules for guys who signed at this age or that, etc. Teams don’t divulge those lists either, because they don’t want the names bandied about if they can help it.
NCmike
November 5th, 2009
1:38 pm
P-Town – Lew pretty much summed it up for me. Dye has declining numbers, in a hitters park. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still an upgrade over Loaf and can put up decent numbers, but just isn’t what we really need. But then again, who other than Bay and Holliday is? Honestly, I think at this point Diaz can put up the same number as Dye. I’d rather sign Coco Crisp and have him bad lead-off. Move McLouth to LF and down to a run producing spot in the lineup. Not the best choice, but I’d prefer it over Dye…
TnBrian
November 5th, 2009
1:41 pm
Lew, I was being sarcastic, that’s all. To the point of a Lee/Vazquez swap… it is kind of an out there idea on a Braves fans part. Agree with you there, but you have to admit that there have been some wild trades in MLB history. Some that make you say, “is that GM on crack!” But, maybe it isn’t that crazy of a thought.
TnBrian
November 5th, 2009
1:43 pm
NCMike, my eyes were deceiving me just now… I thought DOB who commented above yours said the name “Loaf” & I about fell out the chair laughing.