2:51 pm November 3, 2009, by David O'Brien
November 8th, 200911:31 am
Lew, I think blogs exist because we all have many pints of view…I am sure that pints contribute to many a rambling post.
November 8th, 200911:38 am
TommyP: Oh, sorry about that.
November 8th, 200911:43 am
DOB-O’Hare’s worse than Atlanta/Jackson/Whatever they call it now, IMO. Never spent any time in Chi Town outside of the airport, though, so I can’t comment on the city. I’d love to see a game at Wrigley some day-especially since I’m getting close to being able to fit in the antiquated seats (assuming they’re as small as those at Fenway).
My wife flies into and out of O’Hare tonight. Hope she makes her flight to Burlington. I’m not betting money on it, though.
November 8th, 200911:44 am
You’re right that time will tell with Minor, but, you seem to minimize the importance of the success of the number 7 draft pick. The Braves are a mid payroll team in a division with the Mets, Phillies, and possibly even the Nats, that have a substantially higher payroll. The Braves (like the Twins, and Rockies) have to be successful in building from within. Hopefully we will not be drafting that low again for some years to come, and we can’t afford not to get a good major league player out of that spot in the draft.
Aside from possibly Teheran, we DON’T have any high potential starters in our system.
November 8th, 200911:46 am
Saw 6 sucked pretty bad to — TnBrian
That’s both shocking and disappointing. I assumed it would be exceptional moviemaking, like Saw 4 and 5.
But I’m optimistic that the craftsmen behind this series will be back on top of their game for Saw 7. Can’t keep such creative geniuses down for long.
November 8th, 200911:47 am
Sensative……nah but sometimes the people on this board really want you to say things that you normally don’t say lol!
Also I really thought that something may have clicked for Minor the way you wee praising him but I’m really not sure where you saw “good” breaking stuff from Minor his breaking pitches really need work, with what he’s offering at this point he’s very similar to Chuck James. He may throw 4 pitches but only 2 of them are decent. Several scouts have said that his ceiling is a #3 guy.
I’m more of a “liter” kinda guy, but there are times when a pint suits just fine! Your pints were well made, guys! Am I ramblin yet? Pass me that pint! (or liter, whichever is handier)
November 8th, 200911:49 am
Weren’t a lot of Chuck James’ problems injury related? A shoulder, maybe?
November 8th, 200911:51 am
tr–actually, i’m not much of a pint guy either. will always take scotch over beer…just had to pint out the ‘pints of view’..
November 8th, 200911:57 am
I don’t mind a person criticizing what I have to say at all but when you start calling people stupid and idiots that’s not called for. Nothing should be taken that personal to call someone stupid for giving your own opinion.
November 8th, 200912:01 pm
Lew, I agree with your 9:34 on Lowe. I know Anders and others may believe that Lowe’s contract is basically unmovable but I see it the way you do. Its a weak free agent class out there for starting pitching. If a club is willing to look at Lowe’s career instead of just this past season there will definately probably be some teams to take a chance on him. Afterall its a gamble that may pay off for them the way the trade for Javy paid off for us. We were that team that was desperate for pitching last year and he was the pitcher coming off a season where he posted a 4.67 ERA and his manager had just called him out. Of course he only had two years left and his contract was not as much as Lowe’s but he had a career 4.32 ERA before this season compared to the career 3.84 ERA Lowe sports. We need only look at how we were willing to take a chance on Javy to see how other teams desperate for pitching might be willing to take a chance on Lowe.
That and hitters caught on to his two pitches.
November 8th, 200912:06 pm
Not liking pints is a crime shame….
November 8th, 200912:07 pm
tr & Jay–and his fastball had very little movement.
November 8th, 200912:11 pm
would you say the lowe signing was alongside the worst deals atlanta ever made with trade of brett butler?
November 8th, 200912:12 pm
DOB – A better way to look at Torre’s extension thoughts – it’s giving Wren a shot to interview Don Mattingly (in 2010) for his soon to be vacant manager job.
Donny Baseball in the Braves dugout. Interesting image.
Picture Mattingly working with Heyward, McCann, et al. Imagine the hitting coach he would hire.
Young yes – winner – yes. Knows what it’s like to play for an org that expects rings every year.
Bobby needs to retire and the Braves need to turn the page. It will be tough but its really time.
tr is right. Chuck James had an outstanding rookie year; had an exceptional minor league record at every level; and was the darling of this blog after his first year here. In his second season, he was a 500 pitcher with a decent ERA before the end of July. He was mainly a 6 inning pitcher and was succeptible to the HR, but his overall numbers were still pretty good. He was a 4th or 5th starter that had to be a 3rd starter on that Braves team. The arm injury ruined the rest of his season and his career.
November 8th, 200912:13 pm
rush street alone makes chicago a fun city for youngens
testy this morn are we random?
i realize kk and lowe are both very good pitchers , but if the bag of balls contained roy halladay on the upside , bring them on
November 8th, 200912:19 pm
jack, we’re just one year into a four year contract with Lowe. It is a little early to make this type of assessment. Lowe was not the ace we thought we were getting. Actually, he was what we thought we were getting with Vazquez–solid mid-rotation innings eater. Vazquez turned out to be what we hoped we were getting with Lowe. He is resilient. If he remains in Atlanta, we will have a better sense about how good or bad the signing was. It is much better than many other signings—the Cubs and Milton Bradley come to mind.
18 Wheels of Love
November 8th, 200912:20 pm
Vaz for Nelson Cruz
Hank Blalock to 1B
Gonzo/Moylan two-headed closer
Diaz in RF until June – then Heyward
November 8th, 200912:23 pm
getting len barker, getting andy messersmith and the mad hungarian all at the end of their careers were all bad moves. lowe is closing in on his too, but he probably has a good win streak in him yet, that would be the right timing for unloading him
DOB, thing is, they’re apparantly making a Saw 7 for us. They teased us at the end of that masterpiece part 6.
Random, I don’t know what else to say about you that hasn’t been said already. I’ll think of something.
November 8th, 200912:45 pm
Okay, this is my official warning of bad weather in the Atlanta area in about 2 days. We’ve had 25 to 30 mph winds and rain for two days down here in the Keys and it’s headed your way. I doubt you’ll get this much wind but count on the rain.
November 8th, 200912:54 pm
18 Wheels of Love: Interesting 12:20 p.m. suggestions. I like them.
November 8th, 200912:59 pm
Nelson Cruz plays for the Rangers- Javy’s no trade clause bars trades to the AL West
November 8th, 20091:04 pm
My bet —– Saints are 8-0 by the end of the day … I can see 2 potential losses for the Big Easy Brees-es: Patriots and Falcons (since its on the road) … but, we’ll see
November 8th, 20091:06 pm
re: keylargo’s 12:45 post … south MS here, and we’re bracing ourselves as well
November 8th, 20091:17 pm
Jay-I refuse to worry about whether or not a #7 pick (or any other, honestly) is going to come to fruition as a stud player.
You act as if we can not ever afford to make a mistake drafting a specific pitcher because we’re a mid-market team? So what if Minor isn’t all that or takes a couple years to mature into a ML pitcher?
We have Jurrjens under contract for four more years. We have Tommy Hanson under contract for six more years. We have Hudson under contract for 3-4 years (at least that’s what we expect). We have Lowe under contract for three more years (depending on trade and if he IS traded, I expect we’ll have Javy Vazquez under contract for 3-4 more years. We have Medlen under control for five more years.
Quite Frankly, I’m not seeing that Minor’s presence or non-presence makes a bit of difference to the Braves’ fortunes.
November 8th, 20091:22 pm
18 Wheels of Love,
I like your 12:20 post. I’d be satisfied with that if that were our offseason transactions. Maybe a one or two other bullpen pickups plus that would be nice.
November 8th, 20091:35 pm
Lew–”Quite Frankly, I’m not seeing that Minor’s presence or non-presence makes a bit of difference to the Braves’ fortunes.”
I completely agree with your post. I think we are in good shape in starting pitching. However, it would be nice to have a LH starting pitcher able to come up sometime in the next couple of years.
Lew – “Quite Frankly, I’m not seeing that Minor’s presence or non-presence makes a bit of difference to the Braves’ fortunes.”
Not sure I understand. Yesterday, you seemed dead set against using players such as Minor for trades to acquire a proven BIG bat because they were so valuable. Yet, today the value has seemingly waned? Is this because he’s not eligible to be traded or is there a change of heart?
November 8th, 20091:43 pm
18 Wheels- not bad, but I don’t see where Blalock is that much better than LaRoche (if at all). Plus, he’s a left-handed hitter, which shouldn’t stop us from going after anyone. I mean, a good hitter is a good hitter regardless of RH or LH. However, I wouldn’t call Blalock a “good” hitter. He’s serviceable. And LaRoche’s defense is better, in my opinion. All that said- I wouldn’t be disappointed if those moves happened- but I won’t hold my breath.
November 8th, 20091:48 pm
If the Braves go outside organization for a new manager, and if Marlins keep Gonzalez, here’s a name that ought to come up in a Braves search: Kirk Gibson.
I noticed the story that John Lowe wrote in Detroit Free Press today about Gibson wanting to manage. Here’s the link: http://www.freep.com/article/20091108/SPORTS02/911080528/1050/Sports/Gibson-has-the-tools-to-be-a-manager-Tigers-Baseball
November 8th, 20091:59 pm
“he’s dead dude. Hard to spend money from that position”
He’s still a cheap ass. Probably buried all his money with him. Dead or not, anybody that doubts the “value” of Kirby Puckett is and idiot, and should always be remembered as one.
November 8th, 20092:00 pm
There seems to be a lot of love for a guy who’s had one good season-Nelson Cruz. My hope is the Braves would be searching for a player who has a better track record than Cruz. Hey,he might be the real thing but,imo, I want somebody who puts fear in the pitcher when he sees him in the on deck circle.
November 8th, 20092:07 pm
I didn’t say anything about the # 7 pick today it was someone else but I agree with who said it. Minor may have back end 1st rd talent but top 10 talent….
November 8th, 20092:09 pm
Interesting story in the Free Press about Kirk Gibson. I was originally from Michigan and in the 1980s a big Tiger fan. Kirk Gibson (along with Alan Trammell) was the heart and soul of the ‘84 team that won 35 of it’s first 40 games and never looked back. Manager Sparky Anderson didn’t do Gibson any favors by calling him the next Mickey Mantle, even though he had the raw talent, speed, power, and flair for that title. In fact, his drive and team first may have out-matched Mantle in that regard. Gibson brought a big-ten football attitude (I think I remember that he had been a Michigan State wide receiver?) to Tiger Stadium. It sounds like he has matured a lot in Lowe’s article… I’d really like to see him considered for a Braves managerial job.
November 8th, 20092:38 pm
Anybody ever consider Phillip Wellman (sp.?), the Braves AA manager for the big league position. He seems to have been pretty instrumental in development of McCann, Schaffer, Francouer (remember, he was good when he came up), Kelly Johnson and the other “Baby Braves.” Maybe he should get a look-see, no?
November 8th, 20092:39 pm
and yes, Wellman was the guy that “threw the grenade” at the umpire in that hillarious stunt/meltdown…
November 8th, 20092:48 pm
Where top available aces could land
Sunday, November 8, 2009 | Feedback | Print Entry
More than 125 pitchers will be available in the winter after all the free-agent filings and non-tenders are completed. But far too few front-line starting pitchers — the kind who can lead a pitching staff through a long summer, the type who can carry the responsibility of being a staff’s ace — will be on the market.
Roy Halladay certainly fits that description, and it’s fairly evident his time in Toronto is nearing an end. He will be eligible for free agency after next season and has told the Blue Jays that above all else, he wants a chance to win. Toronto is in the midst of restructuring, and Halladay’s timeline might not fit the team’s timeline, as new Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos conceded recently during an online chat. The Jays won’t market Halladay as they did in July, but they will listen to the offers that inevitably will be thrown at them.
Some rival executives are convinced that Atlanta’s Javier Vazquez, who was arguably one of the four best pitchers in the National League this past season, will be traded in the weeks ahead. Vazquez will make $11.5 million next season before becoming eligible for free agency, so the Braves might be compelled to move him now to take advantage of his value. Atlanta needs a right-handed-hitting outfielder, and the other possible trade pieces on the Braves’ pitching staff — Derek Lowe (who is owed $45 million over the next three seasons) and Kenshin Kawakami (owed $13.3 million over the next two seasons) — do not generate much enthusiasm among some rival talent evaluators.
Vazquez went 15-10 in 2009 with a 2.87 ERA, 238 strikeouts and just 44 walks in 219.1 innings after posting ERAs of 4.84, 3.67 and 4.74 in his previous three seasons with the White Sox. The Braves have other pitchers around which to build their staff — Jair Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson and the newly signed Tim Hudson — and probably could get a decent young hitter in return for Vazquez.
Meanwhile, John Lackey, the best available free-agent pitcher, is capable of leading a staff, as he has demonstrated for years with the Angels. The concern about Lackey’s health — the 31-year-old missed the beginning of the past two seasons with elbow trouble — probably will preclude him from signing a nine-figure deal, but he’ll get more money than any other pitcher in the winter.
A handful of teams are said to be ready and willing to pay the price to land an ace.
1. Milwaukee Brewers: Remember, it was only a year ago when Milwaukee offered CC Sabathia a $100 million deal, so the Brewers clearly are prepared to pay big dollars for a big-time starting pitcher. And they have a clear need: Even with rising star Yovani Gallardo anchoring the staff, Milwaukee ranked dead last in starters’ ERA at 5.37 and 27th in rotation innings this past season.
The Brewers conceivably could enter into trade conversations for Vazquez or Halladay, but this course would be problematic. Milwaukee traded aggressively in 2007 and 2008, most notably for Sabathia, and this depleted its farm system. Trading a top young player for a one-year rental like Vazquez or Halladay might not make sense.
It probably would make more sense for the Brewers to take a serious run at Lackey, who as a free agent would not cost them talent in trade. He would take pressure off Gallardo and fit their team culture.
The Brewers also could easily structure a Lackey deal to fit their payroll into the future. Jeff Suppan’s contract will expire after next season, and the only real long-term obligation the Brewers have set in stone is to young slugger Ryan Braun, who is signed through the 2015 season. Milwaukee just reduced salary obligations by trading J.J. Hardy to the Twins and replacing Mike Cameron (who made $10 million last season) with Carlos Gomez.
Look, there will be questions about the Brewers’ lineup next season given that they will have a group of hitters who don’t do certain things very well — Gomez doesn’t get on base consistently, Jason Kendall doesn’t hit for power (a .305 on-base percentage this past season), Rickie Weeks doesn’t seem to stay healthy and Corey Hart has been a picture of inconsistency.
But the Brewers cannot win unless they improve their starting pitching dramatically, and Lackey, if healthy, would do that.
2. Texas Rangers: They were one of the teams most aggressively pursuing Halladay at the trade deadline, and if they could land one of the big three available aces — Halladay, Vazquez or Lackey — they could have a formidable pitching staff next season if Derek Holland and Neftali Feliz (13 hits allowed in 31 innings with 39 strikeouts) continue to develop as expected.
Lackey would fit for many reasons — he grew up and played college ball in Texas; he’s had success in the AL West Division — but it’s unknown whether the Rangers have any chance to make an aggressive multiyear offer for the right-hander, given how their ownership is in a state of flux. The timing just might not be right.
Rather, the Rangers might be more inclined to make a deal for a one-year fix like a Halladay or Vazquez, and there already are rumblings that the Braves and Rangers have discussed Vazquez. What would the Rangers have to surrender?
First baseman Chris Davis could fit in Atlanta, but he’s coming off a poor season and probably wouldn’t be enough. Talent evaluators for other teams wonder whether Josh Hamilton is in the Rangers’ long-term plans. “Who knows what to expect?” one scout asked. “He’s had one great season and he was hurt most of last season, and when he did play, he wasn’t that great.” Hamilton had an OPS of .741 in 89 games for the Rangers in 2009.
What about Nelson Cruz, who emerged at age 29 to have a solid season of 33 homers and a .856 OPS? For the Braves, he would be relatively cheap, could have some impact hitting fifth or sixth in their lineup and has the potential for high impact. There would be questions about Cruz’s home-road splits (his OPS at home last season was 153 percentage points higher in Texas than on the road), but there might be some common ground for the Braves and Rangers here.
3. Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim: They set themselves up for Lackey’s possible departure by trading for Scott Kazmir in August, and based on how negotiations progressed — or didn’t — they seem to have a fairly hard line on what kind of investment they’re willing to make in Lackey, whom they know better than any other team. They could be OK if he walks away, so long as Kazmir continues to improve and Ervin Santana bounces back.
But they obviously would have a big hole at the front of their rotation, and on paper they do match up with the Jays in some ways for a deal for Halladay. Toronto could use young infielders, and the Angels have a wealth of young infielders.
The hardworking, diligent Halladay would be a perfect fit for Mike Scioscia’s clubhouse and the organization’s culture. (Then again, Halladay would be a perfect fit just about anywhere.)
What follows is pure speculation: Could the Jays and Angels structure something around Halladay and Howie Kendrick (plus others), who could play first base for Toronto and give the Jays an excellent young core of hitters with Aaron Hill, Adam Lind and Travis Snider?
4. Los Angeles Dodgers: Could use an ace, but it’s unclear whether they are willing or able to land one. The great unknown, of course, is how much the McCourts’ impending divorce will affect roster structuring, but it’s hard to imagine L.A. getting deep into the bidding for Lackey. And the Dodgers really don’t match up well with the Braves for any kind of Vazquez deal, because presumably they wouldn’t consider trading Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier.
Los Angeles is expected to move at least one of its many arbitration-eligible players via trade. You might match Halladay with what the Dodgers have to offer — Canada native Russell Martin plus others. But remember that Martin’s OPS has dropped 162 points during the past two seasons. He also is climbing swiftly up the arbitration ladder; his salary might climb from $3.9 million last season to $6 million next season. In the end, the Dodgers might not get the ace they need.
• The Brewers’ youth puts the pennant further away, writes Michael Hunt. The Braves will be looking into possible deals this week, writes David O’Brien. The Phillies’ future hinges on young pitcher Cole Hamels, writes Bob Ford.
• The Diamondbacks and Jays are discussing a possible swap of catcher Chris Snyder for first baseman Lyle Overbay, writes Nick Piecoro. Overbay would be a great fit for the Diamondbacks: He had a good (but not great) season in 2009, mustering a .372 on-base percentage, and would provide some defense and left-handed balance. Snyder is a solid defensive catcher who works well with pitchers and could pop 15 homers for the Jays. The money owed to them is fairly comparable — Snyder is owed about $11.25 million during the next two seasons, while Overbay will make $7 million next season.
Keep in mind an ulterior motive for the Jays: If they land another catcher and Rod Barajas walks away as a Type B free agent, Toronto will receive draft-pick compensation.
There is no quick fix for the Blue Jays, writes Shi Davidi.
• Facing a Monday deadline, the Twins picked up the 2011 option on Michael Cuddyer, Joe Christensen writes. There might be risk that the Twins won’t get full value in return for Cuddyer in 2011 at a $10.5 million salary, but it’s worth remembering that everything the Twins do in the months ahead can be viewed through the prism of their Joe Mauer Project. They will try to persuade their franchise catcher to sign a long-term contract (and give them a hometown discount, presumably), so they will do everything in their power to demonstrate they can contend consistently. Cuddyer is a well-liked and highly respected veteran who has been good for the Twins — teammates remarked about how many big hits he got down the stretch as they drove for the AL Central title — so picking up his 2011 option can be seen as part of the early down payment on Mauer.
Moves, deals and decisions
1. Joe Torre is talking with the Dodgers about an extension, writes T.J. Simers. It’s a recurring situation in Torre’s career: He speaks about the possibility of walking away from managing, but after taking a few weeks off to clear his head, he changes his mind.
2. The Mariners are set to start talks with Ken Griffey Jr.’s agent this week, writes Larry Stone. Seattle’s GM has some big decisions pending as he heads off to this week’s GM meetings in Chicago.
3. The Reds will focus on adding a shortstop and catcher in the days ahead, writes John Fay. Within the piece, he speculates that Miguel Olivo might be a fit in Cincinnati. Hal McCoy wonders what the Reds could do considering what they’re up against. Writes McCoy: “Under the current rules, there is no way, none, zip, nada that the Reds can ever win.” A number of small-market and medium-market teams are beginning to feel that way.
4. The Cubs are prepared to let Rich Harden and Reed Johnson go, writes Paul Sullivan. Harden would make some sense for a team with a little payroll flexibility willing to gamble on a modest one-year deal — such as the Mets or Red Sox, who gambled this past winter on Brad Penny and John Smoltz. On a one-year deal, Harden is low-risk and potentially high-reward, but any team that signs Harden would have to be built to absorb a series of five-inning starts. Harden averaged a whopping 17.7 pitches per inning for the Cubs last season.
5. The Rays have some roster decisions to make, writes Marc Topkin.
6. Chone Figgins has a tough decision to make, writes Mark Whicker.
7. The Rockies have cut ties with Josh Fogg but are working on a deal with Rafael Betancourt, writes Troy Renck.
8. Nick Cafardo says the Red Sox should pursue Adrian Gonzalez.
9. John Harper has 10 ideas for building the 2010 Yankees.
Dings and dents
Three Phillies will undergo surgery this week.
• The Giants’ new hitting coach is getting right to work — as in this week, writes Andrew Baggarly.
• Phillies manager Charlie Manuel will finally take a break, writes Jim Salisbury.
• The moves of this past offseason paid big dividends for the Yankees, writes Joel Sherman.
• It’s time for the Yankees to say goodbye to Hideki Matsui, writes Ken Davidoff. The Yankees need to clear their glut of free-agent candidates,
November 8th, 20092:52 pm
November 8th, 2009
“I didn’t say anything about the # 7 pick today it was someone else but I agree with who said it. Minor may have back end 1st rd talent but top 10 talent….”
Jay you know that how? By one inning in an AllStar game on a guy 5 months removed from college?
He has been lights out all fall in a league which is the equal to a AA Allstar team or regular AAA league level. I saw Lincecum get lit up in the first couple innings at Turner Field this year. I remember Glavine struggling through the first innings in a Cy Young year.
This is what I saw. A lefty with good velocity and movement. The first three hits were not hit well, unlucky Texas leaguers. After he was on the ropes they started to square the ball up on him and he got hit hard. Since his track record is fantastic I would guess he did not have his best stuff.
So from that inning you could tell he should have not gone 7th but more likely around 28th right? Your a very good talent evaluator if you could tell that from one inning of an All Star game.
November 8th, 20092:57 pm
Manager in 2011? Hmmm… Is John Rocker available?
November 8th, 20092:58 pm
its amazing people would write off Minor after one bad start
November 8th, 20092:59 pm
KC, how about closer in 2010..Rocker!!
Very Interesting article indeed. My guess, Wren discusses Javy’s availiblity at the GM meetings and Javy gets delt at the Winter Meetings for a power hitting young OF. Nelson Cruz seems like a perfect fit to me so good call DOB.
November 8th, 20093:00 pm
I still say it seems like Greg Maddux would be a great manager… but ya never know.
There are two aspects of managing: Leadership (managing people, keeping the clubhouse together, knowing when to encourage and when to butt kick, etc.)… and strategy/in-game management.
On the second part of that equation, I’d bet anything that Maddux could be among the games very best mangers. But I’ve never spent a minute in a Braves clubhouse, nor have I ever so much as met Greg Maddux… so I have no idea how he’d lead.
It’s just a very interesting thought to me, Maddux as skipper.
November 8th, 20093:02 pm
Andrew, I don’t know about him as closer. I don’t think he has anything left in tht arm. BUT… we know he still has his personal character and leadership skill. LOL
November 8th, 20093:04 pm
thats was Buster Onley just incase anyone was wondering because i dont think him name is in there
November 8th, 20093:05 pm
His name’s gotta be somewhere in that gargantuan post.
November 8th, 20093:06 pm
Heck, my name’s probably in there somewhere.
November 8th, 20093:07 pm
I really don’t like the idea of trading Vazquez. I guess Lowe can bounce back. In fact, he should most likely will. But looking past 2010, I just would love the Braves to rid themselves of that contract. Oh well. Vazquez should bring back plenty of talent. But honestly, the NTC to West teams hurts.
November 8th, 20093:11 pm
Rather, the Rangers might be more inclined to make a deal for a one-year fix like a Halladay or Vazquez, and there already are rumblings that the Braves and Rangers have discussed Vazquez. What would the Rangers have to surrender?
I agree with most of what Buster said. Texas has a ton of prospects and young players that would interest Wren. But I was under the assumption that Javier Vazquez had a no trade clause to all AL and NL West teams.
November 8th, 20093:12 pm
The one thing I have learned about the Braves is that during the offseason it is best to aim low(er) than what it is fun to talk about.
Nelson Cruz is still under control for 2 more years so he is desirable. I could see Vaz and Schafer for him. And if anyone says they are concerned about Cruz having back-to-back good seasons, just flip it and you can say the same thing about the concerns with Vaz.
I bet Wren has conversations with LaRoche’s agent and offers up 2 years take it or leave it. When he leaves it, Blalock will take the same offer.
Gonzo pulls a shocker and accepts arbitration.
And I like the thought of Kirk Gibson being the next manager. Much more so than Mattingly.
November 8th, 20093:14 pm
Hell why dont we just make it interesting and get Cruz and Davis and offer a package around javy and freeman…Cruz and Davis are both very cheap..
November 8th, 20093:15 pm
Of the 6 starters, I’d rather see the Braves trade Vazquez. I know some people esteem him as the greatest pitcher in Braves history, but
1) He’s only had one great season (his career ERA is over 4 in 2500 IP). There’s no guarantee he’ll pitch like he did last year again.
2) He’s only under contract for one more year.
3) He’ll be 34 next season.
4) His value is pretty high.
But I agree with Efrim too. Even though Lowe’s value isn’t that high, just getting rid of that salary would be a big plus no matter who we get.
But I was under the assumption that Javier Vazquez had a no trade clause to all AL and NL West teams.
November 8th, 20093:18 pm
There’s that Falcons’ defense we all know. I knew they weren’t too far.
November 8th, 20093:19 pm
where can you see javy’s no trade clause so i can read it
jeffrey d ..there playing the deadskins
November 8th, 20093:21 pm
Funny..I was just looking it up too.
there playing the deadskins
That’s what makes it worse. All of a sudden Jason Campbell is looking like Tom Brady.
November 8th, 20093:22 pm
oh i thought the falcons were killing them
November 8th, 20093:25 pm
maybe javy or the white sox said he would waive it
Andrew – It was 24-3 at the half (I think). Since then the Redskins put up two big scoring drives. 24-17 now.
November 8th, 20093:27 pm
What do the White Sox have to do with Javy waiving his no trade clause? It would be his decision
November 8th, 20093:30 pm
I dont know if it had been mentioned, but what if Wren traded both Lowe and Vazquez?
Hear me out:
1. Vazquez brings in a young hitter for the outfield, controllable and all that. It frees up some money to use elsewhere.
2. Trade Lowe for another pitcher than can put up similar numbers (hopefully a lower ERA) who is younger and/or cheaper. This would be another salary dump to be able to sign a free agent hitter. (Holiday?)
3. You still have a pretty good rotation with JJ, Hanson, new pitcher, Kawakami and Medlin. Lots of question marks there, but it could work.
4. An outfield of young hitter, McClouth, Big FA would be great.
5. Should have enough money to keep LaRoche.
6. No need to rush Heyward. Gives him plenty O’ time to develop.
7. Diaz as a great bat off the bench and 4th outfielder.
I know people will think I am nuts for thinking this, but what do you think?
November 8th, 20093:33 pm
cabravesfan, when we acquired him from the sox there could have been some details restructured like javy would be willing to waive him no trade clause?
November 8th, 20093:34 pm
Mitchie – I wouldn’t mind seeing that. I’ve seen crazier ideas.
3. You still have a pretty good rotation with JJ, Hanson, new pitcher, Kawakami and Medlin. Lots of question marks there, but it could work
You forgot Hudson.
November 8th, 20093:35 pm
jeffery d, yep I forgot him. Thanks. So JJ, Hanson, Hudson, New guy, Kawakami/Medlin is even better.
November 8th, 20093:41 pm
Javier Vazquez rhp
3 years/$34.5M (2008-10)
* 3 years/$34.5M (2008-10)
o signed extension with White Sox 3/07
o 08:$11.5M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$11.5M
o limited no-trade clause blocking deals to NL West & AL West clubs
o acquired by Atlanta in trade from White Sox 12/4/08
November 8th, 20093:49 pm
There shouldn’t be any reason we have to include Freeman to get Davis and Cruz in that deal. Even Cruz wouldn’t be enough for Vazquez alone, imo. They’d have to include prospects.
November 8th, 20093:50 pm
The 2nd half was not good for the Falcons.
November 8th, 20093:55 pm
Nelson Cruz is still under control for 2 more years so he is desirable. I could see Vaz and Schafer for him.
Whoa. Vazquez AND Schafer for Cruz? Why? Is Cruz that desirable that you would have to add something to Vazquez. I really think you(and you’re not the only one) are selling Javy’s value short. He was one of the four best pitchers in the National League last year. I think the Rangers would have to add to that deal. And honestly, I don’t care that Vazquez is a free agent after next year. Rangers would love that. That’s two draft picks coming there way in this deal too.
November 8th, 20094:00 pm
Efirm, you are right, hopefully it wouldnt take Schafer – maybe he should be shipped elsewhere for another piece of the puzzle. But if we acquire Cruz, Schafer will not be needed. I prefer him sit in AAA for a year but I wouldnt hesitate to deal him. Just look at past players that have been blocked, they get traded. But I agree, Vaz should be enough for Cruz but Texas may give more value to him being under control for 2 more years.
November 8th, 20094:01 pm
That should say….if we trade for Cruz, Schafer will most likely be traded.
November 8th, 20094:04 pm
Efrim, Davis is only 23 ..hes like a younger,cheaper Laroche (i guess with more upside) and getting Cruz ..Javy wont bring that all back..
Steve from OH
Efrim (3:55)–I agree. Vazquez has a ton of value. I don’t mind the idea of getting Cruz (though I do have reservations), but Vazquez-for-Cruz straight up is about as far as I’d go.
November 8th, 20094:08 pm
why would we HAVE to trade Schafer if we trade for Cruz? I don’t get that? Seems like we have essentially 2 OF spots open right now… replace G. Anderson and find a RF (I don’t believe the Braves will ever see Diaz as a everyday starter). So again, why trade Schafer?
November 8th, 20094:10 pm
Maybe we can package Lowe and work something out with Texas..that would be great
November 8th, 20094:11 pm
Braves would control Cruz through 2013
I think we could get both Davis and Cruz for Vazquez plus some cash since the Rangers have some Smoak waiting in the wings.
November 8th, 20094:13 pm
how about we get Figgins to play left and trade for D Lee
November 8th, 20094:15 pm
Wha has Davis done to lead you to believe he can be Adam LaRoche? He’s a butcher at first base and I’m not sure he’ll ever be able to make enough contact at this level.
Using the Vazquez for Cruz scenario (if Javy would go west) the line up would be:
Yay or Ney on that lienup? It would certainly score some runs.
November 8th, 20094:16 pm
Andrew I like the Figgins idea. He could play LF regularly and if/when Chipper gets hurt, Chone slides into 3B and Diaz plays left.
if we cant trade lowe why not put him on waivers and see who bites.he can always be pulled back. what would be nicer would be to get liberty to cough up salary and keep lowe til he has that good start that he usually has the first 5 weeks of the season, then sell high
Sorry, that’s for my 3:30 post ideas…
November 8th, 20094:18 pm
Mitchie-san, that lineup is a little no its way dreaming
November 8th, 20094:19 pm
Obviously, they believed they chose the best pitcher at that point in time that they could find
might want to check the list of first round choices the Braves have made over the last dozen years before giving us such assurances. They have been wrong much more often than right. Obviously it is too soon to know about Minor, but just because they drafted him really doesn’t inspire all that much confidence.
November 8th, 20094:20 pm
Vazquez has a ton of value. I don’t mind the idea of getting Cruz (though I do have reservations), but Vazquez-for-Cruz straight up is about as far as I’d go.
Steve from OH, I have tons of reservations about trading Vazquez, especially for Cruz. I’ve come to the realization that it’s going to be too hard to acquire that 900 OPS bat that everyone wants for the middle of this order. Most likely won’t happen. So I’d be happy with Cruz. But that doesn’t mean that he’s worth Vazquez.
tr-you’re taking another conversation on a totally different topic and applying it to what we’ve been talking about today. What I said was that I would not like to see our young minor league pitching because there was (particularly in Teheran) potential we could use down the road.
However, what was being discussed here was that with what some people feel to be a waste of a #7 draft pick in Minor this year, that we would pay a steep price further down the line in the next couple years.
What I was saying here is that we have pitching for the next several years and that we could allow pitchers like Teheran and Minor to develop and that if perhaps Minor didn’t pan out, that it certainly wouldn’t doom us like some seem to feel it will. Just because I’m not counting my unhatched chickens doesn’t mean I think we should trade them all away, either.
Efrim-I’m with you. I’d really like to keep Vazquez, but I’m not in favor of sending anyone else in a deal that would bring us back Davis and Cruz.-neither of whom I am sold on. I certainly don’t think trading two pitchers, like Mitchie-san proposed- although not a completely insane proposal-is the way to go. I really don’t see us taking on a Holiday-like salary and I want to retain a dominant rotation.
November 8th, 20094:21 pm
Figgins gives you speed, but his average has slipped and he has no power at all… doesn’t seem to correct what we need, which is power. Personally, I like Figgins and always get him on fantasy teams. But for Braves’ real-life team- gotta say no thanks. Not what we need at all.
Meant to say I don’t want to see our minor league pitching traded.
November 8th, 20094:23 pm
“Mitchie-san, that lineup is a little no its way dreaming”– Andrew
It is very possible…at the expense of pitching.
November 8th, 20094:31 pm
Lew, I think a trade like Vazquez and Cruz might work. But they’d have to be sending a couple other prospects in that deal. Prospects that were kind of highly regarded. I’m still for trading Lowe. Again, it’s not that I don’t think he won’t bounce back in 2010. But that salary relief would really help this team in 2010-2012.
November 8th, 20094:38 pm
shows the general level of competency exhibited by the majority of sports writers. most are almost as foolish as all the Braves homers who insist that every Braves prospect is special just because the Braves are the ones that drafted them
November 8th, 20094:42 pm
“I certainly don’t think trading two pitchers, like Mitchie-san proposed- although not a completely insane proposal-is the way to go.”– Lew
Thanks for not bashing the idea, Lew. I am just thinking outside the box on this whole trading a pitcher for offense thing. Personally I think that my scenario would work and work well.
November 8th, 20094:43 pm
shows the general level of competency exhibited by the majority of sports writers Confident?
First of all, since when is Efrim a “sports writer” (no offense)? Second, excuse some people if we’re not 1000% hip to the specifics of every major league player’s contract.
I bow to your superior knowledge.
November 8th, 20094:44 pm
I wouldn’t expect the Rangers to include any elite prospects in that deal if they were giving up Cruz, but I’d expect another couple of pieces going the Braves way. Some lesser known Rangers prospects like Michael Main, Wilmer Font, Engel Beltre. Guys like that. I like C.J. Wilson too.
November 8th, 20094:48 pm
I would not want Cruz in return for Vazquez. If we could pry Justin Smoak from them for Vazquez I would absolutely love that, and I’d even make that deal straight up!
Then I’d sign either Holliday to a 6 yr/90 mil contract.
Re-sign Mike Gonzalez – 3 yr/18 mil contract.
That lineup would score some runs!
cabravesfan, not sure if you are still here, but the Niners really need this game. Like, badly.
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