Fall League’s in full swing, rumor mill’s about to be

Lew,

You’re right that time will tell with Minor, but, you seem to minimize the importance of the success of the number 7 draft pick. The Braves are a mid payroll team in a division with the Mets, Phillies, and possibly even the Nats, that have a substantially higher payroll. The Braves (like the Twins, and Rockies) have to be successful in building from within. Hopefully we will not be drafting that low again for some years to come, and we can’t afford not to get a good major league player out of that spot in the draft.

Aside from possibly Teheran, we DON’T have any high potential starters in our system.

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DOB

Sensative……nah but sometimes the people on this board really want you to say things that you normally don’t say lol!

Also I really thought that something may have clicked for Minor the way you wee praising him but I’m really not sure where you saw “good” breaking stuff from Minor his breaking pitches really need work, with what he’s offering at this point he’s very similar to Chuck James. He may throw 4 pitches but only 2 of them are decent. Several scouts have said that his ceiling is a #3 guy.

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Weren’t a lot of Chuck James’ problems injury related? A shoulder, maybe?

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Lew

I don’t mind a person criticizing what I have to say at all but when you start calling people stupid and idiots that’s not called for. Nothing should be taken that personal to call someone stupid for giving your own opinion.

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tr

That and hitters caught on to his two pitches.

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tr & Jay–and his fastball had very little movement.

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DOB – A better way to look at Torre’s extension thoughts – it’s giving Wren a shot to interview Don Mattingly (in 2010) for his soon to be vacant manager job.

Donny Baseball in the Braves dugout. Interesting image.

Picture Mattingly working with Heyward, McCann, et al. Imagine the hitting coach he would hire.

Young yes – winner – yes. Knows what it’s like to play for an org that expects rings every year.

Bobby needs to retire and the Braves need to turn the page. It will be tough but its really time.

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rush street alone makes chicago a fun city for youngens

testy this morn are we random?

i realize kk and lowe are both very good pitchers , but if the bag of balls contained roy halladay on the upside , bring them on

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Vaz for Nelson Cruz
Hank Blalock to 1B
Gonzo/Moylan two-headed closer
Diaz in RF until June – then Heyward

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DOB, thing is, they’re apparantly making a Saw 7 for us. They teased us at the end of that masterpiece part 6.

Random, I don’t know what else to say about you that hasn’t been said already. I’ll think of something.

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My bet —– Saints are 8-0 by the end of the day … I can see 2 potential losses for the Big Easy Brees-es: Patriots and Falcons (since its on the road) … but, we’ll see

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Jay-I refuse to worry about whether or not a #7 pick (or any other, honestly) is going to come to fruition as a stud player.

You act as if we can not ever afford to make a mistake drafting a specific pitcher because we’re a mid-market team? So what if Minor isn’t all that or takes a couple years to mature into a ML pitcher?

We have Jurrjens under contract for four more years. We have Tommy Hanson under contract for six more years. We have Hudson under contract for 3-4 years (at least that’s what we expect). We have Lowe under contract for three more years (depending on trade and if he IS traded, I expect we’ll have Javy Vazquez under contract for 3-4 more years. We have Medlen under control for five more years.

Quite Frankly, I’m not seeing that Minor’s presence or non-presence makes a bit of difference to the Braves’ fortunes.

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Lew–”Quite Frankly, I’m not seeing that Minor’s presence or non-presence makes a bit of difference to the Braves’ fortunes.”

I completely agree with your post. I think we are in good shape in starting pitching. However, it would be nice to have a LH starting pitcher able to come up sometime in the next couple of years.

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18 Wheels- not bad, but I don’t see where Blalock is that much better than LaRoche (if at all). Plus, he’s a left-handed hitter, which shouldn’t stop us from going after anyone. I mean, a good hitter is a good hitter regardless of RH or LH. However, I wouldn’t call Blalock a “good” hitter. He’s serviceable. And LaRoche’s defense is better, in my opinion. All that said- I wouldn’t be disappointed if those moves happened- but I won’t hold my breath.

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“he’s dead dude. Hard to spend money from that position”

He’s still a cheap ass. Probably buried all his money with him. Dead or not, anybody that doubts the “value” of Kirby Puckett is and idiot, and should always be remembered as one.

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Lew

I didn’t say anything about the # 7 pick today it was someone else but I agree with who said it. Minor may have back end 1st rd talent but top 10 talent….

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Anybody ever consider Phillip Wellman (sp.?), the Braves AA manager for the big league position. He seems to have been pretty instrumental in development of McCann, Schaffer, Francouer (remember, he was good when he came up), Kelly Johnson and the other “Baby Braves.” Maybe he should get a look-see, no?

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Where top available aces could land

Sunday, November 8, 2009 | Feedback | Print Entry

More than 125 pitchers will be available in the winter after all the free-agent filings and non-tenders are completed. But far too few front-line starting pitchers — the kind who can lead a pitching staff through a long summer, the type who can carry the responsibility of being a staff’s ace — will be on the market.

Roy Halladay certainly fits that description, and it’s fairly evident his time in Toronto is nearing an end. He will be eligible for free agency after next season and has told the Blue Jays that above all else, he wants a chance to win. Toronto is in the midst of restructuring, and Halladay’s timeline might not fit the team’s timeline, as new Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos conceded recently during an online chat. The Jays won’t market Halladay as they did in July, but they will listen to the offers that inevitably will be thrown at them.

Some rival executives are convinced that Atlanta’s Javier Vazquez, who was arguably one of the four best pitchers in the National League this past season, will be traded in the weeks ahead. Vazquez will make $11.5 million next season before becoming eligible for free agency, so the Braves might be compelled to move him now to take advantage of his value. Atlanta needs a right-handed-hitting outfielder, and the other possible trade pieces on the Braves’ pitching staff — Derek Lowe (who is owed $45 million over the next three seasons) and Kenshin Kawakami (owed $13.3 million over the next two seasons) — do not generate much enthusiasm among some rival talent evaluators.

Vazquez went 15-10 in 2009 with a 2.87 ERA, 238 strikeouts and just 44 walks in 219.1 innings after posting ERAs of 4.84, 3.67 and 4.74 in his previous three seasons with the White Sox. The Braves have other pitchers around which to build their staff — Jair Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson and the newly signed Tim Hudson — and probably could get a decent young hitter in return for Vazquez.

Meanwhile, John Lackey, the best available free-agent pitcher, is capable of leading a staff, as he has demonstrated for years with the Angels. The concern about Lackey’s health — the 31-year-old missed the beginning of the past two seasons with elbow trouble — probably will preclude him from signing a nine-figure deal, but he’ll get more money than any other pitcher in the winter.

A handful of teams are said to be ready and willing to pay the price to land an ace.

1. Milwaukee Brewers: Remember, it was only a year ago when Milwaukee offered CC Sabathia a $100 million deal, so the Brewers clearly are prepared to pay big dollars for a big-time starting pitcher. And they have a clear need: Even with rising star Yovani Gallardo anchoring the staff, Milwaukee ranked dead last in starters’ ERA at 5.37 and 27th in rotation innings this past season.

The Brewers conceivably could enter into trade conversations for Vazquez or Halladay, but this course would be problematic. Milwaukee traded aggressively in 2007 and 2008, most notably for Sabathia, and this depleted its farm system. Trading a top young player for a one-year rental like Vazquez or Halladay might not make sense.

It probably would make more sense for the Brewers to take a serious run at Lackey, who as a free agent would not cost them talent in trade. He would take pressure off Gallardo and fit their team culture.

The Brewers also could easily structure a Lackey deal to fit their payroll into the future. Jeff Suppan’s contract will expire after next season, and the only real long-term obligation the Brewers have set in stone is to young slugger Ryan Braun, who is signed through the 2015 season. Milwaukee just reduced salary obligations by trading J.J. Hardy to the Twins and replacing Mike Cameron (who made $10 million last season) with Carlos Gomez.

Look, there will be questions about the Brewers’ lineup next season given that they will have a group of hitters who don’t do certain things very well — Gomez doesn’t get on base consistently, Jason Kendall doesn’t hit for power (a .305 on-base percentage this past season), Rickie Weeks doesn’t seem to stay healthy and Corey Hart has been a picture of inconsistency.

But the Brewers cannot win unless they improve their starting pitching dramatically, and Lackey, if healthy, would do that.

2. Texas Rangers: They were one of the teams most aggressively pursuing Halladay at the trade deadline, and if they could land one of the big three available aces — Halladay, Vazquez or Lackey — they could have a formidable pitching staff next season if Derek Holland and Neftali Feliz (13 hits allowed in 31 innings with 39 strikeouts) continue to develop as expected.

Lackey would fit for many reasons — he grew up and played college ball in Texas; he’s had success in the AL West Division — but it’s unknown whether the Rangers have any chance to make an aggressive multiyear offer for the right-hander, given how their ownership is in a state of flux. The timing just might not be right.

Rather, the Rangers might be more inclined to make a deal for a one-year fix like a Halladay or Vazquez, and there already are rumblings that the Braves and Rangers have discussed Vazquez. What would the Rangers have to surrender?

First baseman Chris Davis could fit in Atlanta, but he’s coming off a poor season and probably wouldn’t be enough. Talent evaluators for other teams wonder whether Josh Hamilton is in the Rangers’ long-term plans. “Who knows what to expect?” one scout asked. “He’s had one great season and he was hurt most of last season, and when he did play, he wasn’t that great.” Hamilton had an OPS of .741 in 89 games for the Rangers in 2009.

What about Nelson Cruz, who emerged at age 29 to have a solid season of 33 homers and a .856 OPS? For the Braves, he would be relatively cheap, could have some impact hitting fifth or sixth in their lineup and has the potential for high impact. There would be questions about Cruz’s home-road splits (his OPS at home last season was 153 percentage points higher in Texas than on the road), but there might be some common ground for the Braves and Rangers here.

3. Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim: They set themselves up for Lackey’s possible departure by trading for Scott Kazmir in August, and based on how negotiations progressed — or didn’t — they seem to have a fairly hard line on what kind of investment they’re willing to make in Lackey, whom they know better than any other team. They could be OK if he walks away, so long as Kazmir continues to improve and Ervin Santana bounces back.

But they obviously would have a big hole at the front of their rotation, and on paper they do match up with the Jays in some ways for a deal for Halladay. Toronto could use young infielders, and the Angels have a wealth of young infielders.

The hardworking, diligent Halladay would be a perfect fit for Mike Scioscia’s clubhouse and the organization’s culture. (Then again, Halladay would be a perfect fit just about anywhere.)

What follows is pure speculation: Could the Jays and Angels structure something around Halladay and Howie Kendrick (plus others), who could play first base for Toronto and give the Jays an excellent young core of hitters with Aaron Hill, Adam Lind and Travis Snider?

4. Los Angeles Dodgers: Could use an ace, but it’s unclear whether they are willing or able to land one. The great unknown, of course, is how much the McCourts’ impending divorce will affect roster structuring, but it’s hard to imagine L.A. getting deep into the bidding for Lackey. And the Dodgers really don’t match up well with the Braves for any kind of Vazquez deal, because presumably they wouldn’t consider trading Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier.

Los Angeles is expected to move at least one of its many arbitration-eligible players via trade. You might match Halladay with what the Dodgers have to offer — Canada native Russell Martin plus others. But remember that Martin’s OPS has dropped 162 points during the past two seasons. He also is climbing swiftly up the arbitration ladder; his salary might climb from $3.9 million last season to $6 million next season. In the end, the Dodgers might not get the ace they need.

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• The Brewers’ youth puts the pennant further away, writes Michael Hunt. The Braves will be looking into possible deals this week, writes David O’Brien. The Phillies’ future hinges on young pitcher Cole Hamels, writes Bob Ford.

• The Diamondbacks and Jays are discussing a possible swap of catcher Chris Snyder for first baseman Lyle Overbay, writes Nick Piecoro. Overbay would be a great fit for the Diamondbacks: He had a good (but not great) season in 2009, mustering a .372 on-base percentage, and would provide some defense and left-handed balance. Snyder is a solid defensive catcher who works well with pitchers and could pop 15 homers for the Jays. The money owed to them is fairly comparable — Snyder is owed about $11.25 million during the next two seasons, while Overbay will make $7 million next season.

Keep in mind an ulterior motive for the Jays: If they land another catcher and Rod Barajas walks away as a Type B free agent, Toronto will receive draft-pick compensation.

There is no quick fix for the Blue Jays, writes Shi Davidi.

• Facing a Monday deadline, the Twins picked up the 2011 option on Michael Cuddyer, Joe Christensen writes. There might be risk that the Twins won’t get full value in return for Cuddyer in 2011 at a $10.5 million salary, but it’s worth remembering that everything the Twins do in the months ahead can be viewed through the prism of their Joe Mauer Project. They will try to persuade their franchise catcher to sign a long-term contract (and give them a hometown discount, presumably), so they will do everything in their power to demonstrate they can contend consistently. Cuddyer is a well-liked and highly respected veteran who has been good for the Twins — teammates remarked about how many big hits he got down the stretch as they drove for the AL Central title — so picking up his 2011 option can be seen as part of the early down payment on Mauer.

Moves, deals and decisions

1. Joe Torre is talking with the Dodgers about an extension, writes T.J. Simers. It’s a recurring situation in Torre’s career: He speaks about the possibility of walking away from managing, but after taking a few weeks off to clear his head, he changes his mind.

2. The Mariners are set to start talks with Ken Griffey Jr.’s agent this week, writes Larry Stone. Seattle’s GM has some big decisions pending as he heads off to this week’s GM meetings in Chicago.

3. The Reds will focus on adding a shortstop and catcher in the days ahead, writes John Fay. Within the piece, he speculates that Miguel Olivo might be a fit in Cincinnati. Hal McCoy wonders what the Reds could do considering what they’re up against. Writes McCoy: “Under the current rules, there is no way, none, zip, nada that the Reds can ever win.” A number of small-market and medium-market teams are beginning to feel that way.

4. The Cubs are prepared to let Rich Harden and Reed Johnson go, writes Paul Sullivan. Harden would make some sense for a team with a little payroll flexibility willing to gamble on a modest one-year deal — such as the Mets or Red Sox, who gambled this past winter on Brad Penny and John Smoltz. On a one-year deal, Harden is low-risk and potentially high-reward, but any team that signs Harden would have to be built to absorb a series of five-inning starts. Harden averaged a whopping 17.7 pitches per inning for the Cubs last season.

5. The Rays have some roster decisions to make, writes Marc Topkin.

6. Chone Figgins has a tough decision to make, writes Mark Whicker.

7. The Rockies have cut ties with Josh Fogg but are working on a deal with Rafael Betancourt, writes Troy Renck.

8. Nick Cafardo says the Red Sox should pursue Adrian Gonzalez.

9. John Harper has 10 ideas for building the 2010 Yankees.

Dings and dents

Three Phillies will undergo surgery this week.

Other stuff

• The Giants’ new hitting coach is getting right to work — as in this week, writes Andrew Baggarly.

• Phillies manager Charlie Manuel will finally take a break, writes Jim Salisbury.

• The moves of this past offseason paid big dividends for the Yankees, writes Joel Sherman.

• It’s time for the Yankees to say goodbye to Hideki Matsui, writes Ken Davidoff. The Yankees need to clear their glut of free-agent candidates,

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Manager in 2011? Hmmm… Is John Rocker available?

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KC, how about closer in 2010..Rocker!!

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I still say it seems like Greg Maddux would be a great manager… but ya never know.

There are two aspects of managing: Leadership (managing people, keeping the clubhouse together, knowing when to encourage and when to butt kick, etc.)… and strategy/in-game management.

On the second part of that equation, I’d bet anything that Maddux could be among the games very best mangers. But I’ve never spent a minute in a Braves clubhouse, nor have I ever so much as met Greg Maddux… so I have no idea how he’d lead.

It’s just a very interesting thought to me, Maddux as skipper.

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thats was Buster Onley just incase anyone was wondering because i dont think him name is in there

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Heck, my name’s probably in there somewhere.

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Rather, the Rangers might be more inclined to make a deal for a one-year fix like a Halladay or Vazquez, and there already are rumblings that the Braves and Rangers have discussed Vazquez. What would the Rangers have to surrender?

What about Nelson Cruz, who emerged at age 29 to have a solid season of 33 homers and a .856 OPS? For the Braves, he would be relatively cheap, could have some impact hitting fifth or sixth in their lineup and has the potential for high impact. There would be questions about Cruz’s home-road splits (his OPS at home last season was 153 percentage points higher in Texas than on the road), but there might be some common ground for the Braves and Rangers here.

I agree with most of what Buster said. Texas has a ton of prospects and young players that would interest Wren. But I was under the assumption that Javier Vazquez had a no trade clause to all AL and NL West teams.

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Hell why dont we just make it interesting and get Cruz and Davis and offer a package around javy and freeman…Cruz and Davis are both very cheap..

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But I was under the assumption that Javier Vazquez had a no trade clause to all AL and NL West teams.

Efrim-

He does

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where can you see javy’s no trade clause so i can read it

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where can you see javy’s no trade clause so i can read it

Funny..I was just looking it up too.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/search?q=javier+vazquez

there playing the deadskins

That’s what makes it worse. All of a sudden Jason Campbell is looking like Tom Brady.

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maybe javy or the white sox said he would waive it

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Andrew-

What do the White Sox have to do with Javy waiving his no trade clause? It would be his decision

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cabravesfan, when we acquired him from the sox there could have been some details restructured like javy would be willing to waive him no trade clause?

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jeffery d, yep I forgot him. Thanks. So JJ, Hanson, Hudson, New guy, Kawakami/Medlin is even better.

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Hell why dont we just make it interesting and get Cruz and Davis and offer a package around javy and freeman…Cruz and Davis are both very cheap..

There shouldn’t be any reason we have to include Freeman to get Davis and Cruz in that deal. Even Cruz wouldn’t be enough for Vazquez alone, imo. They’d have to include prospects.

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Nelson Cruz is still under control for 2 more years so he is desirable. I could see Vaz and Schafer for him.

Whoa. Vazquez AND Schafer for Cruz? Why? Is Cruz that desirable that you would have to add something to Vazquez. I really think you(and you’re not the only one) are selling Javy’s value short. He was one of the four best pitchers in the National League last year. I think the Rangers would have to add to that deal. And honestly, I don’t care that Vazquez is a free agent after next year. Rangers would love that. That’s two draft picks coming there way in this deal too.

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That should say….if we trade for Cruz, Schafer will most likely be traded.

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Efrim (3:55)–I agree. Vazquez has a ton of value. I don’t mind the idea of getting Cruz (though I do have reservations), but Vazquez-for-Cruz straight up is about as far as I’d go.

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Maybe we can package Lowe and work something out with Texas..that would be great

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I think we could get both Davis and Cruz for Vazquez plus some cash since the Rangers have some Smoak waiting in the wings.

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Efrim, Davis is only 23 ..hes like a younger,cheaper Laroche (i guess with more upside) and getting Cruz ..Javy wont bring that all back..

Wha has Davis done to lead you to believe he can be Adam LaRoche? He’s a butcher at first base and I’m not sure he’ll ever be able to make enough contact at this level.

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Andrew I like the Figgins idea. He could play LF regularly and if/when Chipper gets hurt, Chone slides into 3B and Diaz plays left.

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Sorry, that’s for my 3:30 post ideas…

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Obviously, they believed they chose the best pitcher at that point in time that they could find

might want to check the list of first round choices the Braves have made over the last dozen years before giving us such assurances. They have been wrong much more often than right. Obviously it is too soon to know about Minor, but just because they drafted him really doesn’t inspire all that much confidence.

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tr-you’re taking another conversation on a totally different topic and applying it to what we’ve been talking about today. What I said was that I would not like to see our young minor league pitching because there was (particularly in Teheran) potential we could use down the road.

However, what was being discussed here was that with what some people feel to be a waste of a #7 draft pick in Minor this year, that we would pay a steep price further down the line in the next couple years.

What I was saying here is that we have pitching for the next several years and that we could allow pitchers like Teheran and Minor to develop and that if perhaps Minor didn’t pan out, that it certainly wouldn’t doom us like some seem to feel it will. Just because I’m not counting my unhatched chickens doesn’t mean I think we should trade them all away, either.

Efrim-I’m with you. I’d really like to keep Vazquez, but I’m not in favor of sending anyone else in a deal that would bring us back Davis and Cruz.-neither of whom I am sold on. I certainly don’t think trading two pitchers, like Mitchie-san proposed- although not a completely insane proposal-is the way to go. I really don’t see us taking on a Holiday-like salary and I want to retain a dominant rotation.

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Meant to say I don’t want to see our minor league pitching traded.

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Lew, I think a trade like Vazquez and Cruz might work. But they’d have to be sending a couple other prospects in that deal. Prospects that were kind of highly regarded. I’m still for trading Lowe. Again, it’s not that I don’t think he won’t bounce back in 2010. But that salary relief would really help this team in 2010-2012.

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“I certainly don’t think trading two pitchers, like Mitchie-san proposed- although not a completely insane proposal-is the way to go.”– Lew

Thanks for not bashing the idea, Lew. I am just thinking outside the box on this whole trading a pitcher for offense thing. Personally I think that my scenario would work and work well.

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I wouldn’t expect the Rangers to include any elite prospects in that deal if they were giving up Cruz, but I’d expect another couple of pieces going the Braves way. Some lesser known Rangers prospects like Michael Main, Wilmer Font, Engel Beltre. Guys like that. I like C.J. Wilson too.

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cabravesfan, not sure if you are still here, but the Niners really need this game. Like, badly.

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