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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,702 comments Add your comment
ugaaccountant
November 6th, 2009
8:58 am
Gonzo > Wagner as a pitcher at this point in their careers
Gonzo is cheaper than Wagner
Wagner is a type A free agent
Also you could say the same for Soriano, but Soriano would cost more.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
9:05 am
Anders: If the Braves go after Wagner — repeat, IF they go after him — it would be to close. They’re not looking to pay a setup man the kind of money he’ll likely command.
J-MAN
November 6th, 2009
9:11 am
Are we really sure Hudson will sign, if you remember last year Hampton was supposed to sign, he didnt and thank god, Furcal was supposed to sign, he didn’t oh well, Griffey was supposed to sign, Meeh whatever, I’m not saying that Hudson will be a flop but if history has showed us is that we typically dont get who we want and sometimes thats a good thing. But all of those moves last year got us desparate for Lowe and giving him 15 mil a year and I’m thinking how are we gonna get anyone to eat that contract and how are they gonna get a power hitter?
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
9:14 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-rogers-white-sox-teahen,0,4267298.column
Phil Rogers of the Chicago Tribune thinks that Teahen’s arrival(soon to be, I guess), might mean that Paul Konerko is on the way out. The White Sox do have the second base position open now, if the trade goes through. Not saying Johnson would be enough, but he could be included in a deal. Konerko has a NTC, though, so I’m not sure he would even welcome a trade out of Chicago.
ugaaccountant
November 6th, 2009
9:16 am
Lew and others
Vazquez, Freeman and Teheran for Prince? Give me a freakin break.
First of all, two pitchers and the number two and number three prospects in the organization for a one year rental? What makes you actually think they either could sign Fielder long term or could afford to do so?
Nobody ever suggested trading for a one year rental. Read his post. The proposal was for a sign and trade. Fielder signs BEFORE he comes here or the deal would be retarded (like Tex and Drew).
Now as to affording Fielder, yes we could. It involves trading Lowe for whatever and not needing to re-sign Laroche, giving us up to 20M a season for Fielder. Our LF would be Diaz and our RF would bat 8th and be Church until Heyward is called up.
Depending on exactly how expensive Fielder was in this scenario, we could also afford someone from Gonzalez, Soriano, Wagner.
Essentially every problem solved if Fielder wants to sign long term with Atlanta and doesn’t like Milwaukee. A very similar deal could be considered for Adrian Gonzalez and who knows what other team might have a great 1b for sale, there are a good number of them out there. That’s what Wren is paid to do, get the real story not what we on a blog can prove but the inside stories which aren’t publicly available.
P. W. Hjort
November 6th, 2009
9:18 am
Re: Efrim
Konerko has one year left on his contract and isn’t believed to have received overtures about staying past 2010. He could be attractive to teams looking for leadership and run-production, with San Francisco, Arizona, Boston and the Angels among the possibilities
Is it just me, or is it massive oversight on Rogers’ part to leave the Braves (who would be a close to perfect match) out of the discussion?
dmack2027
November 6th, 2009
9:24 am
Hopefully we will not have to listen to a bunch of rumors about the Braves trading Yunel.
He matured a lot this year. I expect him to develop into one of the best SS (combining offense and defense) in the major leagues in the next couple of years.
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
9:27 am
Is it just me, or is it massive oversight on Rogers’ part to leave the Braves (who would be a close to perfect match) out of the discussion?
PWH, he probably just forgot. But I can honestly say that the last thing the Red Sox need is Paul Konerko. I’d like to think that the Braves would be smack in the middle of that type of discussion. Im not a huge Konerko fan, but he’d be a solid fit for this team. 12 million isn’t pennies though……
Chessboxin'
November 6th, 2009
9:30 am
Paul Konerko, 2007-2009: .260/.350/.475
Nate McLouth, 2007-2009: .265/.353/.467
You say McLouth is one of our worst two hitters and should not hit at the top or the middle of the order, but then say Konerko is a perfect match in our quest to find a middle of the order big bat? Is this a massive oversight on PWH’s part?
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
9:45 am
But is Konerko really that much better than Adam Laroche? I guess by a bit. The more and more I think about it, the more I hope the Braves do offer arbitration to Adam.
P. W. Hjort
November 6th, 2009
9:47 am
Chessboxin’ (November 6, 2009 9:30 AM) You say McLouth is one of our worst two hitters and should not hit at the top or the middle of the order
Yes. If Wren finds two more competent bats, those two–along with Diaz, Chipper, McCann, and Escobar–would make McLouth the 7th or 8th best hitter on the team.
but then say Konerko is a perfect match in our quest to find a middle of the order big bat?
Not what I said. I said Konerko is a nearly perfect fit for the Braves.
Paul Konerko, 2007-2009: .260/.350/.475
Nate McLouth, 2007-2009: .265/.353/.467
There’s lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
9:49 am
ugaaccountant-You actually think I’m unaware of or unable to reason the pros and cons of such a trade? WTF, Dude, I’m a UGA alum, too. Don’t treat me like I went to Tech.
Fielder will receive somewhere in the vicinity of an $18-20 million contract when he renegotiates (or hits Free Agency-unless the Brewers extend him first) and the Braves can’t afford that kind of money (see also Holliday and Bay) and quite honestly, they don’t need Fielder like so many seem to believe.
LaRoche is a much better defensive 1B than Fielder. There’s absolutely no comparison (not to mention Fielder ain’t exactly a flexible type and is not likely to get smaller and more athletic). He also will only cost about $9-10 mil per year and give you just a few less HR. He is a great fit in Atlanta, likes to play here and is an asset in the clubhouse. And let us not mention that Freeman, the much ballyhooed 1B in waiting is (ok, I can’t resist) in waiting.
Now for another practicality no one seems to take into account. Milwaukee ain’t trading Fielder or Braun. They have basically said as much in so many words. Yes, pitching is at a premium and yes, MIlwaukee needs pitching. However, their GM correctly stated that hitters like Fielder and Braun are a commodity in short supply as well (why do you think we want them?). They are exceptional hitters and worth every bit as much as a good pitcher is to a team. How would you think that the Brewers had improved themselves by adding someone like Lowe or Vazquez while deleting their best offense in a hitter’s park? Makes absolutely no sense at all.
Couple all of this with the fact that Lowe is coming off of what most Braves’ fans feel was a radically substandard season and that Vazquez, despite his pitching line as a Brave, is still an iffy proposition to most teams, especially those with hitter friendly stadiums like the Brewers. Javy has NEVER performed as well in such venues. I seriously believe that Javy’s 09 season was a direct result of WHERE he pitched and liking being there.
It absolutely amazes me that people can only see the good in any deal and are totally unwilling to see the potential drawbacks or improbable aspects (like the other team not wanting to trade their best for pieces we don’t want) of a deal. Hell, last year I was ridiculed and reviled by so many (including DOB) when I claimed Peavey was an injury waiting to happen and totally not worth the package we were asked for in return. Everyone claimed he was an ace and exactly what we needed. How exactly did that one turn out?
keylargo
November 6th, 2009
9:49 am
Gonzo > Wagner as a pitcher at this point in their careers
Gonzo is cheaper than Wagner
Wagner is a type A free agent
Not sure I agree with these statements.
1. Gonzo had a 1.197 WHIP and 2.57 ERA while Wagner had a 0.894 WHIP and a 2.37 ERA in 08 before he was hurt.
2. See #1 for reason why Gonzo is cheaper
3. Not sure Wagner is a Type A free agent with only 17 appearances in 09? Just asking.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
9:50 am
Are we really sure Hudson will sign, if you remember last year Hampton was supposed to sign, he didnt and thank god, Furcal was supposed to sign, he didn’t oh well, Griffey was supposed to sign… J-Man
Did Hampton, Furcal or Griffey ever talk to a reporter about how excited they were to be staying (or going to) Atlanta for the next three years, and how they were happy to have been able to find a happy medium to work out a deal? No. Not at all. Hudson did.
As I said, barring something totally unforseen in the MRI, the deal is now supposed to be announced next week. Everything in the contract has been worked out, agreed to.
Doc Holiday
November 6th, 2009
9:52 am
Please stay away from wagner boys.
P. W. Hjort
November 6th, 2009
9:54 am
keylargo -
“Gonzo > Wagner as a pitcher at this point in their careers
Gonzo is cheaper than Wagner
Wagner is a type A free agent”
Not sure I agree with these statements.
I don’t either.
3. Not sure Wagner is a Type A free agent with only 17 appearances in 09? Just asking.
Wagner is a Type A, yes, but so is Gonzalez.
I don’t know why someone seems to think Wagner is going to cost more than Gonzo. Wagner is probably getting a 1-year deal with incentives and perhaps a vesting/club option. Gonzo is probably looking at a 2-year deal.
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
9:55 am
3. Not sure Wagner is a Type A free agent with only 17 appearances in 09? Just asking.
He is. Or at least will quailify to be one, so they say.
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
9:58 am
Please stay away from wagner boys.
I agree, Doc. But only because they would have to give up ther first round draft pick. If the Red Sox don’t offer him arbitration, he’d be a great fit.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
10:00 am
The ratings are based on cumulative stats over previous two seasons. Wagner had 27 saves in 2008. His situation’s similar to Soriano, just with the years reversed (Soriano had 14 appearances in 2008, 27 saves in ‘09).
Murry
November 6th, 2009
10:01 am
i think diaz is going to start in right field next year. then they will move heyward in after june or july
P. W. Hjort
November 6th, 2009
10:01 am
Hot Stove Myths | Sabernomics
Let me debunk a few common myths about baseball’s labor market as baseball’s second season begins.
GMs can buy low and sell high — So, let me get this straight: you think you know when a player is playing above or below his true ability—usually due to a small sample or by using a SGT-approved metric instead of a mainstream statistic—but guys who make a living in baseball completely miss it. For this to work, the GM on the other team has to be a colossal moron. GMs have made mistakes in the past and will make mistakes again, but they’re not dumb enough to act on a meaningless hot/cold streak. You can’t sell high or buy low and profit financially because all GMs understand these things. You don’t have to wait for a guy to get hot to sell him, nor dump him before he gets cold. In addition, the key knowledge of when the peak or trough is doesn’t exist, except in the mind of message board posters. Fluctuations in performance create uncertainty, which affect the price that GMs are willing to pay.
The number of free agents at a position affects the price of free agents at a position — It seems logical that more free agents at a position will mean more options for teams. Players act as substitutes and thus a team can pit the players against one another to keep salaries down. The problem with this is that the free agents have come from somewhere. A high number of players looking for new teams means that there is a corresponding number of openings that teams need to fill. For example, it there are four good shortstops on the market this means that there are also four openings on team. The increased supply of players is canceled out by the increased demand by teams needing replacements.
Every trade has a winner and a loser — Swapping resources only takes place if both parties are made better off. Therefore, when we observe trades taking place, it’s likely that both parties are doing so because they expect to improve their teams (see the weak axiom of revealed preference, or as I call it: “the useful WARP“). Mistakes happen, but as a general rule, all parties to trades are winners. Who says economists aren’t touchy-feely?
Players peak at 27 and old players are worthless — Players peak at 29 — 30. And just because a guy is past his peak doesn’t mean he’s not valuable. The aging process is gradual, more like the Minneapolis Metrodome than an Egyptian pyramid. If a guy was good last year, even if he’s in his mid-30s, he’ll probably be good next year. Now, the older he gets the more dangerous long-run contracts get, but one- and two-year deals are fine.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
10:02 am
PWH: I agree with your 9:54, regarding what Wagner and Gonzo might command on free-agent market.
Murry
November 6th, 2009
10:03 am
lets sign gonzo and wagner. ryan howard won’t have a chance.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
10:10 am
In ESPN mag’s “countdown of emerging stars” in all sports, Jason Heyward is No. 12, just ahead of the Aussie national soccer team (I’m serious) and just ahead of UWashington QB Jake Locker.
BA’s Jim Callis is quoted saying, “He’ll hit .320 with 40 homers a year,” and in three reasons to watch Heyward, Callis lists:
— One of the quickest bats I’ve ever seen
— Owns coveted lefty power
— Will win batting titles someday
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
10:16 am
Murry: That would be a pretty sound way to neutralize Howard, at least in the late innings (your starter still has to face him).
Howard is 3-for-11 with six strikeouts, two walks and no homers vs. Wagner, and 2-for-15 with one homer, one walk and six strikeouts vs. Gonzalez.
DAP
November 6th, 2009
10:18 am
PHWA high number of players looking for new teams means that there is a corresponding number of openings that teams need to fill. For example, it there are four good shortstops on the market this means that there are also four openings on team.
this is not always true. often teams have a rookie or a guy they have been grooming to take over the position.
and on wager vs. gonzo…if we are going to sign a type A, why not just sign our own guy and not lose the pick? i wouldnt mind giving gonzo 2 years.
Murry
November 6th, 2009
10:21 am
if that starter is left handed then i like the braves chances. howard is good but he can be pitched to. utley is a different story. that guy is amazing.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
10:22 am
MZ: I just started playing the CD, heard the Vietnam album (very good) and two of the American Aquarium albums (I really like the EP, Bones).
Thanks again, man. Much appreciated. I have a bunch of Freedy Johnson, but not the album you put on here (Freedy’s from Kansas, by the way).
Got almost all the Eels CDs, but don’t have this B-sides compilation you put on here, and meant to get it.
Got a couple of Los Straightjackets CDs, but not the one you put on here. So looking forward to hearing all this stuff. I don’t have anything by the other bands you put on here, though I’ve heard a few cuts by a couple of them and heard good things about several.
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
10:25 am
this is not always true. often teams have a rookie or a guy they have been grooming to take over the position.
Was just about to post something on that, DAP. And it’s especially true now, when teams are handing over jobs to cheaper, internal solutions.
CB
November 6th, 2009
10:25 am
I think it would be a wise move if the Braves could sign Gonzo at a 3yr 18mil contract and then go see what Wagner would cost. It may be that Wagner has no interest in Atlanta but I believe Gonzo likes it here.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
10:25 am
DAP’s right about the supply/demand of players at certain positions, PWH. Don’t know where you came up with that, but there certainly are years where a lot of teams are looking for pitchers or players from a certain position, and not many available. This year, for instance — lot of teams need starting pitchers; there are few front-line starters available.
And Efrim also makes a good point at 10:25. Times have changed, PWH.
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
10:26 am
if that starter is left handed then i like the braves chances.
Yeah, about that….
dmack2027
November 6th, 2009
10:30 am
More than anything else, the Braves should have taken note how to neutralize the Phillies LH heavy lineup. Keep running southpaws to the mound who can throw breaking pitches. Of course CC is exceptional, but Howard’s splits against LHP are pronounced.
The Braves RH starting rotation just does not match up very well with Utley, Howard, and Ibanez.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
10:33 am
dmack-And yet the Braves won the season series vs. The Phillies and might have won even more if they’d walked Howard instead of pitching to him. The Phillies are hardly invincible-even to a RH staff.
dmack2027
November 6th, 2009
10:35 am
Is JoJo Reyes playing winterball anywhere?
McFann Ô
November 6th, 2009
10:36 am
Dies Irae since [McCann's] numbers were not all that much better than Chippers I see no sense in putting him there either.
Keep in mind BMac was dealing with half-blindness all year. That hindered his numbers quite a bit, I’d say.
But that being said, I wouldn’t bat him 3rd, either. Fifth, baby! Fifth!
dmack2027
November 6th, 2009
10:40 am
One point about the Braves offering arbitration to their free agents.
It is great to have a bunch of picks high in the draft. However, you have to budget enough money to sign those players. I hope the Braves are allocating a lot of money to make this draft a great one for the organization.
Heath
November 6th, 2009
10:47 am
Morning all.
It’s been a while since I have been on the ol’ blog. I’m ready for the rumor mill to ramp up to full speed now that the off-season has officially started. Go Braves!
DAP
November 6th, 2009
10:48 am
PWH, i went to the article you linked and made the same comment, fyi.
Soph
November 6th, 2009
10:49 am
But that being said, I wouldn’t bat him 3rd, either. Fifth, baby! Fifth!
Oh, McFann. Tell us how you really feel.
cricket
November 6th, 2009
10:51 am
As I expected, at least one regular blogger found some merit in Bradley’s crazy suggestion of making Hanson a closer. Also learned today that Smoltz was closing because we had surplus of starters and not because braves thought that would be the better way to preserve his arm.
P. W. Hjort
November 6th, 2009
10:51 am
DOB/DAP
It’s not my work. None of the words in that post were written by me. I linked to the article at the top of the post. It’s JC Bradbury’s. Argue with him, not me. I’m not supporting a position, just providing the article.
DAP
November 6th, 2009
10:55 am
PWH, Argue with him, not me. easy, not arguing with you. when you post something, you have to expect the responses to be addressed to you.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
10:55 am
On this day in history:
1990 — Braves’ David Justice wins the National League Rookie of the Year award. He hit .282 with 28 home runs, 20 coming after he replaced Dale Murphy in right field in early August.
ncscoots
November 6th, 2009
10:56 am
The Braves RH starting rotation just does not match up very well with Utley, Howard, and Ibanez.
Well, not if you keep trying to go away, anyway, LOL. Righties have to stay in on Utley’s and Howard’s hands enough to make offspeed pitches away work. Otherwise, those guys just extend and crush.
If I were pitching them, I’d take the lesser poison: if I miss over the inner third, dude’s got to get around on my fastball to hurt me (not saying he wouldn’t, if I miss bad enough). Have to make those two guys fastball-inside-conscious. Otherwise, I’m never going to have a chance to get him off-balance away; he’s just going to wait, lean, and mash.
Ibanez, I just throw whatever, LOL.
P-Town Brave
November 6th, 2009
10:56 am
Wow, can’t believe I read that Prado is one of our worst hitters…
Man I must be smoking something or watching a completely different game.
Oh, and where was everyone when I mentioned Konerko right after the trade yesterday? Or earlier this year for that matter?
Seems like I mentioned putting Prado in to start at the BEGINNING of the year and mentioned that Konerko would be a great fit in the ATL at the DEADLINE.
Talk about Prado and Escobar and McLouth not getting any respect…
I am beginning to feel like Rodney Dangerfield over here.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
10:57 am
If you have a stone in your shoe, do you remove the stone to stop the pain or do you amputate the foot to make yourself feel better? I swear that’s the same approach many of you feel is necessary to turn around the Braves’ fortunes.
We did not make the playoffs (where, with our pitching, we would have gone far) because we couldn’t take advantage of the Phillies’ annual streakiness in the first half of the season. Remember, the Braves pretty well played the Phillies even up from June 28th til the end of the season. The Phils were highly vulnerable until then, but we had Schafer, KJ and Francoeur performing like amateurs and couldn’t catch them. However, we improved and kept pace from there on out.
So what do we do to remedy that? Hell, that should be rhetorical as we DID remedy the situation-just too late in the season to make a difference/ We got McLouth, traded Frenchy and acquired LaRoche and it did the trick. So why go to outrageous lengths to make us better when we were already there?
Re-sign La Roche to a three year deal. So what if it blocks Freeman? Is he a sure thing anyway? Rhetorical again, y’all, we know he’s still an iffy proposition.
Let KJ and Church ride off into the sunset. They will NOT be worth what they’d get in arb and are basically meaningless as trade pieces. Save the $7 mil or more they’d make and move onward. Let Soriano go and extend Gonzo for a 3 year deal at about $6-7 mil per year. You save $3-4 mil that way and have your LH closer so many feel is integral to beating the Phillies. At this point, you have saved around $10 million-enough to re-sign Roachy.
Trade Lowe to whomever will eat his salary-something that will be much easier to accomplish than many seem to believe. Get back the best pieces you can in return and consider yourself blessed that you now have an extra $15 mil per year. Make a trade and get a bat. Nelson Cruz is not my idea of a panacea, but would provide some more offense than we saw from Garrett “Loaf” Anderson last year. We already improved center field with the acquisition of Nate, who hopefully will learn to hit better at the Ted’s friendly confines. So would any number of other lesser bats than Fielder, Carlos Lee or someone else of their way too expensive ilk. Use the remaining $$$ to pay raises, fill out the pen and improve the bench and pinch fitting roles.
This is all easily doable this winter and with Diaz holding down right field until Heyward is deemed ready, takes care of our last year’s first half doldrums, leaves us wtih the best pitching staff in the NL, if not all of baseball and improves our offensive output from last year.
Oh-and sign Vazquez to a three year extension and watch the Phillies implode under an extremely quickly escalating salary structure and decreasingly effective pitching staff.
CB
November 6th, 2009
10:58 am
Talking Chop has a poll on which free agent you would most like the Braves to retain- Greg Norton has 6 votes.
P. W. Hjort
November 6th, 2009
11:03 am
DAP
I was speaking primarily to DOB, who believes that the article I posted is my position.
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
11:04 am
It is great to have a bunch of picks high in the draft. However, you have to budget enough money to sign those players. I hope the Braves are allocating a lot of money to make this draft a great one for the organization.
Arizona had an absurd amount of draft selections(seven of the first 64) in the first two(plus supplemental round) rounds this past draft. They did a pretty good job with expected budget constraints. I doubt the Braves will have that many picks, unless they get nuts and offer arbitration to Soriano, Gonzo and Laroche……with all of them signing with other teams. That would net us 5 extra draft selections.
David O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
11:10 am
Just to reiterate about Justice: The man hit 20 homers in August-September as a rookie in 1990 after taking over for Dale Murphy in early August. He totaled 20 homers and 50 RBI in 209 at-bats in Aug-Sept, with a 1.007 OPS in August and a .344 BA and 1.165 OPS in September. Yep, I’d say that would catch attention of voters and persuade plenty to change their minds if they’d previously formed an opinion on Rookie of the Year.
Another number that jumps from his stats that season: On first pitches, he hit .404 (23-for-57) with six homers and an .807 slugging percentage.
McFann Ô
November 6th, 2009
11:18 am
Soph Tell us how you really feel.
I really should try to come out of my shell, shouldn’t I?
ncscoots
November 6th, 2009
11:18 am
On first pitches, he hit .404 (23-for-57) with six homers and an .807 slugging percentage.
Guess that sucker should have learned to have more patient at-bats.
CB
November 6th, 2009
11:27 am
It should show that just like Francoeur,pitchers figured out he liked to hit that first pitch.
N8
November 6th, 2009
11:29 am
“Guess that sucker should have learned to have more patient at-bats.” scoots
While funny, are you really comparing Francoeur’s pitch selection/swing ability to David Justice’s? Please.
Justice might have never met his capabilities due to nagging injuries and what not. But Justice was generally thought of as a good hitter. Jeff is/was/and always will be a hacker. Period.
Justice was willing to take the outside pitch to LF. MANY opposite field hits in his career. Jeff? Not so much.
In fact, when Jeff was a rookie, part of his success, was his willingness to drive the ball back up the middle and NOT pull everything. As soon as he stopped doing that, what success he was having went away.
Random
November 6th, 2009
11:32 am
I suspect that Prince Fielder would prosper on no other team than the one that drafted and developed him.
Regardless of his hitting prowess, Fielder is a big, fat lardass. But for Brewers fans, he’s THEIR big, fat lardass. They are willing to make allowances and cut slack that they otherwise would not for any kind of import — trade or free agaent. ‘Cause Fielder is their baby — they watched him grow. They’re invested in his success, perceived or otherwise.
Were Fielder to go to a new team, there would be no grace period. No allowances made, no slack cut.
And it would go downhill from there with every defensive blunder, every baserunning gaffe, every whiff or GIDP.
Just my opinion.
ncscoots
November 6th, 2009
11:33 am
While funny, are you really comparing Francoeur’s pitch selection/swing ability to David Justice’s? Please.
Uh, no. How did Francoeur suddenly rear his ugly head, LOL? That joke was a jab at the usual “Braves need to be more patient” drivel that shows up here more than any rational person might expect. Heck, yours appears to be the first mention ANYWHERE of the old Jeffer.
Redstick19
November 6th, 2009
11:34 am
DOB- my apologies if this has been addressed and I missed it… but do you get a sense that the Braves could go after Jason Bay now that the Red Sox have acquired Hermida? I know he’ll be pricey, but Wren seems to be more focused on offense this year.
P. W. Hjort
November 6th, 2009
11:35 am
On swinging at the 1st pitch: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/04/22/pitch.counts/index.html
TnBrian
November 6th, 2009
11:38 am
Wow, if this Heyward turns out to be as good as people are saying, you have to start thinking another dynasty with him/JJ/Escobar/Mac/Hanson & others. I can see in a few years where a magazine or something has written where it took the Braves a few down years before building another dynasty. Wren just needs to be patient & let all this come together. I do think that’s what he’s doing.
ncscoots
November 6th, 2009
11:42 am
In fact, when Jeff was a rookie, part of his success, was his willingness to drive the ball back up the middle and NOT pull everything.
And that I’ll totally disagree with, LOL. What blew the kid up was trying to be a Chipper Jones clone, instead of realizing that pulling the ball was what he did best. Nothing wrong with being a pull hitter, as long as you can recognize the pitches that you might actually be able to pull. The fact that Francoeur never got to that point was the main ingredient in his failure in Atlanta, not his spray chart. All that “use the whole park” nonsense did nearly as much to hurt his performance as anything else.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
11:42 am
Redstick-Bay is still going to command around $16-18 million per year. Way too much for the Braves to realistically afford. We won’t be going for Bay or Holliday. Not even a consideration. We’ll get someone completely under the radar, IMO.
TnBrian
November 6th, 2009
11:44 am
I think the problem with Frenchy is between his ears, not his talent. Apparantly you couldn’t tell the guy sh** & he pouted when he was sent to the corner(minors). Enough w/ old news… get Ludwick. I don’t know why he hasn’t been brought up here much, but he’d be a perfect fit to play LF or even RF until Heyward’s ready to go.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
11:45 am
TnBrian-We’re in agreement with that. I think that’s exactly what Wren is trying to do.
6-4-3
November 6th, 2009
11:46 am
The White Sox have just bought out Jermaine Dye’s contract for 950K, so he’s officially a free agent. I don’t know if we should pursue him but I’m sure the Braves are at least considering him.
cvbraves
November 6th, 2009
11:46 am
Tell you what? Trade all you want but I’ll go with a lineup of Nate, LF; Prado, 2B; Heyward, RF; Yunel, SS; Brian, C; Chipper, 3B; Freeman, 1B; Jordon, CF: and, either Vazquez, Jurrgens, Hanson, Hudson, Lowe, starting pitcher…and win more than 90 games in 2010. I’ll close with Moylan/O’Flaherty, and then add Medlen, Kawakami, Hyde, Kimbrel, plus 1, to the bullpen.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
11:47 am
TnBrian-That was re: your 11:38 post. I’m not sold on Ludwick as the answer.
Thrillhouse44
November 6th, 2009
11:47 am
We’ll get someone completely under the radar, IMO.
I agree Lew. Wren can be awful shrewd and I think he learned to keep things under lock and key after last year’s off season.
Ron Gant
November 6th, 2009
11:49 am
Amen! Or as some tools here say, co-sign!
N8
November 6th, 2009
11:49 am
scoots, maybe I just miss ole’ Jeffy. LOL
I just assumed that you were jabbing at those who stated Jeff needed to be more patient. But did you see what happened? I made and ass out of u & me.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
11:49 am
cvbraves-They won’t put that kind of pressure on two barely 20 year old rookies. Why do you actually think that’s a wise move when we have the resources available for trade and whatnot to deal with our needs and not put that kind of weight on the backs of two young and totally unproven kids??
Ron Gant
November 6th, 2009
11:49 am
Oops. Here’s what I was co-signing:
Nothing wrong with being a pull hitter, as long as you can recognize the pitches that you might actually be able to pull.
ncscoots
November 6th, 2009
11:49 am
Way too much for the Braves to realistically afford. We won’t be going for Bay or Holliday. Not even a consideration.
Ah, yes. Assuming that the cigar stand is out of Padrons, so why even walk over there, in the first place? What am I gonna do with you guys, LOL?
N8
November 6th, 2009
11:52 am
scoots, I think both ways can be successful. Call it two paths to the same destination.
IF Jeff was going to swing at everything like he did, than he should have learned to drive the ball where it was pitched. Like many good hitters do.
Or, he could have just done what you suggest. Which is pick and choose which pitches to “turn on” and drive to the left of center.
Unfortunately for him, us as fans and the Braves, he just continued to try and pull outside pitches and often swung with no contact at low and away sliders.
Can’t deny that whichever path he was trying to go down, he failed miserably in his approach.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
11:52 am
Thrillhouse-How have you been? Yeah, I think that’s a much more realistic vision of the way things will go. But why take the most simple road to your goals when complexity and insane moves are so much more fun to contemplate? Why not sign Barry Bonds or trade for the most expensive players we can find? I wonder, considering how many seem to think moves like this actually make sense.
O'Brien
November 6th, 2009
11:54 am
TnBrian,
Chipper and Bobby are the links to the Braves of the 90’s. Once they are retired, the Braves will have a new look and a fresh start (to me). However, I’m cautiosly optimistic, because a lot of people thought the “Baby Braves” would continue the Braves dynasty. But only BMac has lived up to expectations.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
11:57 am
scoots-Whatever. We should have found a way to come up with the money for Tex and Sabbathia, too, right? La Roche and Vazquez were such downgrades, weren’t they, despite being more affordable?
GboroBravo
November 6th, 2009
11:59 am
Twins Acquire J.J. Hardy
By Tim Dierkes [November 6 at 10:57am CST]
The Twins acquired shortstop J.J. Hardy for center fielder Carlos Gomez, according to Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.
Nick from PA
November 6th, 2009
12:00 pm
DOB,
Think the Braves will show any interest in Jermaine Dye?
ChipperFan
November 6th, 2009
12:00 pm
Paul Konerko hasn’t slugged over .500 since 2006 and is gonna be 34 this year. Sorry guys, not the answer at cleanup.
cvbraves
November 6th, 2009
12:00 pm
Lew: I suggested what I did because I truly believe the lineup would win more than 90 games; I believe Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel won’t have any problem (after about 2 or 3 games) dealing with the pressure; I believe it is time to move Brian back to about 5th in the batting order; and, I believe Chipper should move a few slots back, too.
I don’t put a whole lot of weight on the “pressure” theory…like all of us, we strive for certain goals — and many of us don’t suddenly begin to falter once we achieve them. We may be a bit tense or nervous when we get a promotion, but we get over it rather quickly and get down to business.
But, I will always defer to you, Random and DOB for the most reasonable suggestions and alternatives. You folks are a lot brighter than I.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
12:04 pm
O’Brien-Depends on whether you consider the “Baby Braves” to include only Francoeur and Kelly Johnson or might also include Elvis Andrus and Neftali Feliz. We traded a good number of the Baby Braves to my way of thinking. Schafer, Heyward and Freeman might also be considered part of that group or any other prospects we’ve signed the past four or five years.
In addition, Francoeur and Johnson might shine elsewhere (stranger things have happened), Davies might be a decent pitcher in the long run, same with Harrison and we’ve still got Hanson, Medlen, Teheran and several others. It ain’t all about Chuckie T, who brought us Hudson, anyway.
Efrim
November 6th, 2009
12:07 pm
The Twins acquired shortstop J.J. Hardy for center fielder Carlos Gomez, according to Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.
Good move for both teams, imo. Sounds like that’s an indication that Mike Cameron isn’t going back the Brewers. Where is DAP with the “let’s sign Cameron” post?
Lew
November 6th, 2009
12:08 pm
cvbraves-I wasn’t putting down your intelligence, Dude, or calling your brain power into question, I was just pointing out that putting all that pressure on young kids (and Heyward and Freeman are babies in the scheme of things) is not, in many cases, the best way to go with their development. Add to that the fact that neither have diddly for experience above a partial season at AA and you have the reasons I doubt that’s the way the Braves FO will go.
TnBrian
November 6th, 2009
12:12 pm
O’Brien, I’d argue that those “Baby Braves” weren’t an already proven group like JJ/Hanson/Mac/Escobar & I don’t ever recall reading anywhere about Langerhans/Frenchy, etc. the things I’ve read from a lot of people regarding Heyward & his all around natural talent. Maybe McCann was in Heyward’s group back then & we all know how he’s turned out.
Lew, guess that’s why the Cards went out & got Holliday to protect Pujols instead of relying on Ludwick, huh? I still think he could help a lot hitting cleanup only if Chipper can bounce back & McCann continues to get better at the plate.
N8
November 6th, 2009
12:15 pm
“Add to that the fact that neither have diddly for experience above a partial season at AA…..” Lew
You mean like Brian McCann (and Jeffy) in 2005?
Not saying it’s the right move. Just saying that it’s not like there is ZERO chance of it happening (Heyward starting the seasonn in Atlanta).
Billy Walsh
November 6th, 2009
12:15 pm
The offseason is only two days old and there has already been a fluery of activity. Now that Dye has been bought out I’m sure people are going to debate whether he is a good fit in Atlanta (absolulety not). DOB, do you think Wren is going to field offers for Escobar and would he trade him if he was overwhelmed with a strong offer?
DAP
November 6th, 2009
12:18 pm
scoots, the stand has a couple of padrons, but after paying for the 5 course meal, all the trimmings and dessert, we may only have 5 or 6 bucks left.
DAP
November 6th, 2009
12:21 pm
lets sign mike cameron. (there you go, efrim)
Lew
November 6th, 2009
12:24 pm
Nathan-Maybe, but there were a couple of major differences there. McCann and Francoeur had already turned 21 early in the year and didn’t come up to start the season-they came up several months later, so your analogy is not spot on. MAYBE Heyward will start the year in Atlanta. Freeman? No freaking way.
CB
November 6th, 2009
12:27 pm
If Lowe is traded for a prospect,I don’t understand why so many on the blog do not feel we would have the money to sign the one big bopper or trade for him. This would free 15mil to use on hitters. It might mean some adjustments made to our thinking on the bullpen but it can be done.
Duke
November 6th, 2009
12:29 pm
ESPN’s rumor mill says that the Braves are thinking of using Hanson as a closer. That’s just stupid
sidslidkid
November 6th, 2009
12:30 pm
Anybody heard the new Devendra Banhart album What Will We Be? I like it. It’s kind of tree-hugging-hippyish at times, but still really good.
Lew
November 6th, 2009
12:31 pm
CB-Because Bay and Holliday are going to command around $16-18 million. $15 mil just doesn’t cover that and we have need of more than an outfield bat-we need a 1B and a closer, too, as well as a couple extra arms for the pen and a PH/Utility guy. Only so much you can get with that $15 mil plus whatever you might save on our two current closers.
TnBrian
November 6th, 2009
12:38 pm
Duke, just another cheap alternative. Sure, Hanson could easily be one of the top closers in the game, but he could also easily be one of the top starters in the game… take your pick. I understand Atlanta is a mid market team with a limited payroll & there are a few needs to fill, but this goes back to Wren overpaying for Lowe & maybe even KK.
Chessboxin'
November 6th, 2009
12:40 pm
A Theo Fleury of activity indeed!
CB
November 6th, 2009
12:41 pm
Lew,I guess my theory is one big bat either at 1B or left field and go cheaper at the other position. Right now I think it is more important to get the one big guy than two lesser bats.
Thundersticks
November 6th, 2009
12:44 pm
I wish Vlad’s knees weren’t shot because he’d be awesome in the cleanup spot. I realize he’s not the Vlad of old, but still an RBI machine…when he’s in the lineup.
ncscoots
November 6th, 2009
12:46 pm
scoots-Whatever. We should have found a way to come up with the money for Tex and Sabbathia, too, right? La Roche and Vazquez were such downgrades, weren’t they, despite being more affordable?
Except, of course, that reports are that the Braves made a sizable offer to Teixeira. To your way of thinking, that would have been “not a consideration”. Should have just shrugged their shoulders, dipped their heads, stuck their hands in their pockets, and shuffled on down the road. Better dejected than rejected, I guess. Single guys do it all the time when confronted with beautiful women, and never consider the possibility that the babe might be the one sitting at home alone on a Friday night.
Me, I’m a big believer in possibilities, babes and bashers both. Especially on the second freakin’ day of the offseason, six bleepin’ weeks before even the winter meetings, and a hundred stinkin’ days until ST.
The bar just opened its doors, and some here seem ready to go home, right now, with somebody who would barely look good at closing time. No, thanks. Alana De La Garza might be in the room, and I’m at least gonna ask, LOL.
Tomahawk Talk
November 6th, 2009
12:46 pm
Hey DOB,
Heard anything about potentially going after Mike Cameron. He isn’t the big bat that we need but he is a 20+ hr guy. His average definitely needs to improve, but he is a capable fielder. What about the odds of getting Jermaine Dye. He definitely has the power and hitting behind Chipper and in front of Bmac may even help the average.
Lineup
1. Matt Diaz RF (he is a major spark and can run)
2. Martin Prado 2B (your prototypical number 2 guy. he can get the bunt down if needed. got a little power, can hit for average.
3. Chipper Jones 3B
4. Jermaine Dye LF
5. Brian McCann C (hes more comfortable here)
6. Yunel Escobar SS
7. Adam LaRoche 1B (we need to retain him)
8. Nate McClouth CF (like having another lead off guy that can produce runs)
That seems like a pretty formidable lineup with the pitching we have.
I also dont think we need to go out and pay big money for a reliever. Maybe we can trade Kelly Johnson and a prospect or too.(possibly KJ and Kawakami to get Capps) to the Pirates for Matt Capps. KJ would be an improvement over anybody they can throw out there for second base since they traded away freddy sanchez. Capps/Kimbrell should be a pretty good back end. When Proctor gets healthy, he only adds more depth. I’ve said this before I believe, but I’m a strong believer in not spending a lot on relievers. The risk is way too high.