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Tomahawk Talk
November 5th, 2009
1:45 pm
i know reports have come out that we are not meeting with Chapman. Any way that is just a way to keep it hush-hush? He could be a good fit for the Braves.
NCmike
November 5th, 2009
1:48 pm
DOB wouldn’t sell out a player like that… But it would be funny.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
1:51 pm
lewWhatever, I didn’t apologize because there was nothing at all to apologize for.
whatever dude, you sooo apologized and i am soaking it up!!!
p.s. just messing with you bud. i got lots of blog love for ya.
dmack2027
November 5th, 2009
1:52 pm
Actually, DOB wouldnt the Braves prefer to have Huddy wait on the MRI until after he gets back to make sure he does not hurt himself at a country music festival. Once he has the MRI and it determines he is healthy, wouldnt the contract be complete?
O.J.
November 5th, 2009
1:58 pm
Lew, not that it matters much, but Lowe is 36, not 37
NCmike
November 5th, 2009
2:01 pm
U2 having a free concert in Germany to celebrate the Berlin Wall coming down 20 years ago. There is now a wall around the arena to keep non-ticket holders out. Talk about irony…
beekay
November 5th, 2009
2:09 pm
I saw Kimbrell this year in single A….. Sat right behind the bullpen and he was about three feet in front of me throwing gas while warming up. He got in the game and gave up a grand slam. His era was near 10 at the time. I can’t believe how much he turned that season around. He didn’t have any confidence and his ERA was awful.
Andrew in P-tang
November 5th, 2009
2:16 pm
oh no, here comes chad tracy to the braves.
Rock On......
November 5th, 2009
2:22 pm
“Since 1999, pitchers starting a postseason games on three days’ rest against pitchers on full rest have a combined 12-36 record.
That’s not bad; it’s abysmal. Yet stark as this statistic is, its message may be even more blunt. Most of those 48 pitchers who started on three days’ rest were star hurlers or close to it. Nobody warps a postseason rotation so a donkey can start on short rest. You only do it for the studs. “ -F.Wren at 11:29
Well, my guess is that Cliff Lee is one stud of a donkey. CC Sabathia is probably upset that a donkey beat him 6-1 don’t you think?
Thanks for bringing up the stat about the 12-36 record. That has only been beaten to death a thousand times since Girardi said he was going with a 3-man rotation, about A MONTH AGO!
F.Wren, thanks again for your excellent insightful posts (my eyes won’t stop rolling).
tdmorgan
November 5th, 2009
2:39 pm
P-Town, how many times does a ground out produce a run? Unless you have a ton of speed more than likely you’re not gonna score on a ground out. The logic of putting the ball into play has the chance to make it out of the infield makes your case. But I would still consider Cameron to be the more dependable player especially since it will help our defense, a huge problem from last year.
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
2:56 pm
since it will help our defense, a huge problem from last year.
Folks, I know it’s only November, but, you gots to keep your eyes on the prize, LOL. I’d just about take a brick-handed, slow-footed, range-of-a-refrigerator guy, as long as he can mash. You have eight other guys to catch the darn thing, the Braves need somebody who can make them un-bleepin’-catchable for the opposition.
I mean, besides Adam Dunn, natch, LOL. Even I draw the line somewhere.
Roman Gal
November 5th, 2009
2:56 pm
Javy for Jayson Werth?
Jason Werth is so underrated. He was such an integral part of the Phillies championship run, but guys like Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, and Jimmy Rollins got all the publicity. So that leads me to believe that Werth was really underrated. He’s probably one of the most underrated players in the history of the game. I mean, it’s hard to be as underrated as he is. I know most of y’all probably didn’t know he was underrated, but just take my word for it…Jason Werth is underrated, but he’s certainly proven his worth.
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
3:00 pm
Roman Gal…an underrated poster. The Jayson Werth of blogdom.
Daslied
November 5th, 2009
3:01 pm
Abreu signs 2-year extension w/ LAA, according to Ed Price @ AOL (via MLBTR).
DAP
November 5th, 2009
3:02 pm
scoots I’d just about take a brick-handed, slow-footed, range-of-a-refrigerator guy, as long as he can mash.
i agree, but based on the convo…two guys who are similar offensively (if they will be…thats debatable), ill take the gold glover.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
3:03 pm
and putz enters the FA reliever pool.
tdmorgan
November 5th, 2009
3:04 pm
scoots i was referring to the talk between Dye and Cameron, trust me, I would love to have a Holliday or Bay to put in LF, but unless we unload Lowe and fast we might be out of the running before we have a chance to offer either a contract.
Hillbilly
November 5th, 2009
3:19 pm
Jayson Werth’s resemblence to Edge from the WWF (or whatever it’s called) is totally underrated.
McFann Ô
November 5th, 2009
3:20 pm
Roman Gal Jason Werth is underrated, but he’s certainly proven his worth.
You could say, “Jason is underrated, but he’s certainly proven his Werth.”
Sorry…been reading too much Pearls Before Swine lately…your post was funny, BTW.
ugaaccountant
November 5th, 2009
3:20 pm
Rock On……
Having KK, Lowe, and Hudson as 3/5 of the rotation makes me real uneasy.
That’s likely to be the best 3 through 5 in the majors. Some fans are simply spoiled rotten.
AdirondackDave
November 5th, 2009
3:23 pm
Supes – DOB – Lew — and others. Lowe to Yanks certainly does make at least some sense and, I don’t care what Cashman or others say, they will pay whatever they think it will take to win. That outfit is rolling in dough. At least as long as George is with us.. if you get my drift. Lowe could get us Swisher.. but I’m not sure we want him. Rather have prospects from Yanks. Braves need an impact bat, not just another serviceable outfielder. I have a lot of confidence in Wren, given what he did with the pitching staff last year. If he can come anywhere near duplicating that success with 1st (hopefully resigning LaRoche) and LF… 2010 can’t come soon enough!
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
3:32 pm
tdmorgan, gotcha. Just don’t scare with me with that “defense” talk, LOL. I’d love to have a stableful of athletic, gliding, speedy, rangy guys who can hit a ton, but I’d settle for one or two guys who might have to be told how to put on the glove, but, can step into the box and make pitchers think about their mamas.
O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
3:32 pm
The Braves have a long way to go to catch the Phillies. The Phillies were among the leaders in HR in the NL, but they were also among the leaders in stolen bases too. (The Braves need to run more and stop waiting for the 3 run HR). And if Cole Hamels return to form, the Phillies have a nice 1-2-3 with Lee, Hamels, and Happ.
The Phillies have won 3 division titles in a row, but they already have the same amount of World Championships as the Braves did after 14 division titles in a row. 1 championship.
I’m looking forward to the Braves taking the next step next year.
Bobby Hill
November 5th, 2009
3:34 pm
I would rather see Wren go after a guy like Josh Willingham than spend +15million per year on Bay or Holliday. The Braves already have a couple of highly paid under-performing guys on the roster. Why risk adding a third? Why put that many eggs in one basket? Holliday is still an unproven commodity away from Coors Field, and Bay hasn’t exactly been consistent either. Better to spread the money around and minimize the risk. Especially if you’re talking about everyday players. Mid market team have to look where they can get the most bang for the buck.
nolie
November 5th, 2009
3:38 pm
I think the Braves will try to get Heyward in LF this year for financial reason, (Marc)
he’s a right fielder, he won’t be playing left when he finally comes up, which if financial considerations are paramount-I don’t know if they will be or not- wouldn’t be at the beginning of the season.
tdmorgan
November 5th, 2009
3:41 pm
Dream scenario: We get Holliday to play LF, Heyward is ready to play out of ST and Schafer proves enough that he doesn’t need time in Gwinnett. Then we can trade McLouth for a prospect and bullpen help. Plus then we would have money to tweek our team mid-season.
Daslied
November 5th, 2009
3:43 pm
Abreu gets $9MM in 2010 and 2011, with a $9MM vesting option (or $1MM buyout) in 2012. So between $19-27MM for 2-3 years.
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
3:44 pm
Since the longer, rewritten version of my Hudson story hasn’t been posted online yet, I’ll give it to you unedited here:
By David O’Brien
Being home with his wife and children during baseball season is nice, but Tim Hudson said he’d never have agreed to a three-year extension with the Braves if that were the only attraction.
“It’s convenient from the family standpoint,” the veteran pitcher said Thursday. “But I’m excited that I’m going to be with this organization for another three years because I think we have a chance to be really good.
“I’m excited about being able to help the organization get back to the position we used to be in, which is a championship club. To me, being part of that is more special than going through free agency and just going to the team I think has the best chance to win the World Series.”
Terms were agreed to this week on a three-year extension believed to be worth close to $9 million annually. The deal won’t be finalized until Hudson’s surgically repaired elbow passes another MRI exam.
“It’s all done,” he said of contract details. “I’m assuming all the physical stuff went fine. Only thing I have to do is the MRI, which I’ll probably do when I get back Sunday from [Adam] LaRoche’s thing.”
Hudson planned to fly to Kansas to attend LaRoche’s charity event in the free-agent first baseman’s hometown, Fort Scott. Hudson also took an opportunity to publicly lobby for the Braves to re-sign LaRoche, pointing out the need for his strong defense in addition to slugging.
The Braves will not make an announcement or comment on the Hudson contract until the deal is official.
Hudson referred to the MRI as more a formality. He’s had other MRI exams this year, and no setbacks since returning from a year-long rehabilitation following August 2008 ligament-transplant surgery.
He went 2-1 with a 3.61 ERA in seven September-October starts after coming off the disabled list.
The Braves made a strong second-half run to pull within two games of wild-card leader Colorado before losing their last six games. Hudson said he’s confident the team is poised to be a contender for years.
“I think Frank [Wren, Braves general manager] is going to work really hard this offseason to get the necessary pieces we need to be a championship team again,” he said.
With Hudson in the fold, the Braves will have a surplus of starting pitchers and likely step up efforts to trade one from the group of Derek Lowe, Javier Vazquez and Kenshin Kawakami.
Lowe might be the hardest to trade, with three years and $45 million left on his contract and after posting a 4.67 ERA with only 111 strikeouts in 194-2/3 innings.
Vazquez, who had one of the best seasons by any major league pitcher, is owed $11.5 million in 2010 before he can become a free agent. The Braves would prefer to keep him, but he might be the only one of the older pitchers they could trade for plenty in return.
The Braves want to add a right-handed power hitter, and Vazquez is attractive enough to possibly bring a power hitter in return.
Regardless of trades, the Braves figure to have one of baseball’s top rotations featuring Hudson, Jair Jurrjens and phenom Tommy Hanson.
Hudson is a former 20-game winner with a 148-78 record and 3.49 ERA in 11 seasons with the Braves and Oakland Athletics. With the shortage of front-line starters in the free-agent class, he might’ve commanded a multi-year deal worth at least $10 million on the open market.
The Braves had a $12 million option on his contract for 2010, and Hudson had the right to veto the option. The Alabama native and former Auburn star said all along that he’d give the Braves a “hometown discount” on an extension — as long as the discount wasn’t extreme.
Hudson had also said several times that he’d strongly prefer a multi-year extension to the option.
“I was really optimistic about getting [a deal] done,” said Hudson, a Peachtreee City neighbor of Wren’s. “I’m just glad we were both able to get together find a happy medium. My family’s happy here.”
The Hudsons are putting the finishing touches on a house they’ve built in Auburn, and they have a thriving charitable foundation in Atlanta.
Hudson said one thing that has him optimistic about his future is the improved shoulder strength, which he worked on like never done before while recovering from his “Tommy John” elbow surgery.
Pitchers recovering from the surgery are put on rigorous rehab programs to improve the strength of the shoulder and other muscles, in part to help ease the stress on the rebuilt elbow ligament.
“I want to show Braves fans, the Braves organization and my teammates that I’m going to be as good or better than I’ve ever been,” Hudson said. “I feel like I have a new lease on life. I’ve got a new elbow, man. And my shoulder felt better than it had in about seven years.”
beekay
November 5th, 2009
3:47 pm
Willingham is going no where…the thrifty Lerner family is not letting a cheap outfielder with power get away…he might give you Elijah Dukes or Austin Kearns(FA). Willingham makes Kelly Johnson money and is probably going to hit 25-30 hrs next year
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
3:50 pm
Better to spread the money around and minimize the risk. Especially if you’re talking about everyday players. Mid market team have to look where they can get the most bang for the buck.
Just as with any investment, you always forgo the opportunity for a major takedown when you diversify and lower risk. That’s an excellent investment strategy when you’re 30 and you plan to have many years ahead before you want to cash in.
Not so good, if you want to cash in a year from now and don’t currently have enough socked away to live the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed. You have to take some chances, some risk; even if you go broke, you are little worse off than you were before you took the flyer, since you didn’t have enough to cash in, anyway.
The Braves don’t have enough to be able to cash in next year, and minimizing their risk by not taking a shot at a high-flyer won’t get them any closer to doing so.
They have very good pitching for the next few years (assuming the usual), they have a core of young players who should be maturing in the next few years (assuming), and they have the wherewithal to take a shot, right now, at the brass ring. This would not be the time for hedging. Find the right guy and lock him up for the window of opportunity that appears to be opening.
Dies Irae
November 5th, 2009
3:51 pm
This series was lost in game 4 without throwing your best pitcher in Lee to even the series. Rock On.
that fails about 65-70% of the time as someone posted the figures a day or so ago. You are apparently the only one who believes what you are saying
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
3:52 pm
By the way, Huddy did an interview today on 680 The Fan, the new AM flagship station of the Braves’ ratio network. He was talking about taking less to stay here and how his agent kept asking the Braves for this or that in the new deal.
“Sometimes you have to tell your agent that I’m happy here, and you work for me,” Hudson said.
Gotta love that.
If I could sing like Paul McCartney and get funky like Etta James
November 5th, 2009
3:55 pm
OK let me have it. Trade Lowe to the Cubs for Milton Bradley and what ever reliever they will give the Braves to get rid of him. Bobby will straighten out Bradley. He will love Atlanta and he can hit. Then sign Havey and Rochie to a long term contract, and bring up Heywood to platoon at mid year. Prettty good team.
Plan two go cheap and unload Lowe for prospects at the trading deadline and use Kelly Johnson in left. Bobby still thinks he can hit. Platoon him with Schafer and Heywood.
Dies Irae
November 5th, 2009
3:55 pm
Lowe for Milton Bradley and a high level pitching prospect. (beekay)
that ain’t happening. No way the Braves take on Bradley. He’s a bigger cancer than anybody they have ever had.
Pete
November 5th, 2009
3:59 pm
Paul McCartney, the chances of Bradley coming here are about the same as me having a date with Jennifer Anniston…..in fact, my chances are probably much better. Has nothing to do with Cox; no one is going to straighten him out except himself, assuming he would ever want to.
SCJames
November 5th, 2009
4:01 pm
DOB,
What do you think of an idea where the Braves trade Derek Lowe to someone like the Orioles for a couple of mid-level prospects but mainly salary relief and then resign LaRoche, then trade KJ and some mid-level prospects to the Brewers for Ryan Braun. Also instead of looking for a closer give some like Kris Medlen the shot to be you’re closer?
tdmorgan
November 5th, 2009
4:07 pm
SC, Lowe to the Orioles isn’t a bad idea, but you’re dreaming on the Braun idea and Medlen might be a stretch as closer.
Bravos11
November 5th, 2009
4:08 pm
The White Sox just traded for Mark Teahen, so that means Jermaine Dye is not in the plans for them. Braves could have him on a 2 year deal for around 5 or 6 mill per.
nolie
November 5th, 2009
4:12 pm
ith PROCTOR in the house, MFIKY and his $6 mill are his-to-ry!!!! Probably GONZALEZ as well. Boy I hope SCOTT’s surgeries are successful. I’m sure the BRAVES feel that way, or they wouldn’t have offered a one-year deal (Rich)
I think you are being way optimistic about Proctor, he walks a ton of guys has a high WHIP and BTW has a terrible percentage of successful saves..in an admittedly small sample size. Hope you’re right, but I ain’t holdin’ my breath.
beekay
November 5th, 2009
4:14 pm
I look at Dye as only a slight improvement over Loaf….17 years in the bigs,downside of his career, poor defense…he only hit .251. the only upgrade is his homers but he would probably get twice as much as we gave Loaf last year
Supes
November 5th, 2009
4:15 pm
Jermaine Dye worries me…he’ll be Garret Anderson 2.0 in a way (way more expensive too).
*********************************************
DOB,
““Sometimes you have to tell your agent that I’m happy here, and you work for me,” Hudson said.
Gotta love that.”
My only hope is that Jair tells this very same thing to Scott Boras when it comes to ink a long term deal with the Braves years down the road.
beekay
November 5th, 2009
4:18 pm
SCJames
Johnson for Braun??? We would need to throw in Medlen, and Mcclouth as well as another high level prospect.
AL for ATL
November 5th, 2009
4:20 pm
[i]Al-Randy Johnson and Derek Lowe are apples and kumquats here, Dude. Johnson is what? 43? Last year he was also coming off of surgery and was only coming back to try for 300 wins. Lowe is 37 and coming off of yet another 15 win season, having never been on the DL and logging close to 200 IP yet again. No comparison whatsoever.[/i]
Lew you misunderstand – the Yankees had Johnson 4 or 5 years ago and overpaid for him. I’m saying the Yankees don’t want to repeat the mistake they made with Randy Johnson NOT making a comparison between Johnson now and Lowe now. Cashman has indicated a desire to avoid paying big money for older players who in likely their last contract or close to it. With that in mind, Lowe probably isn’t exactly going to be high on their target list.
CB
November 5th, 2009
4:20 pm
I think it is going to take a lot of guts for the Braves to make some blockbuster type trade that could bring in this slugger that we need. scoots is correct-we may have a small window of time in the next couple of years where this pitching can help carry us if given a big bopper to balance out this good lineup. Go for it now when you have a chance,Wren. Think a Prince Fielder type and see what happens.
Bravos11
November 5th, 2009
4:22 pm
Dye can still hit 25-30 homers, GA was never projected to do that for the braves. If the braves want power production for their OF then they will need to spend more than 2mill.
Soph
November 5th, 2009
4:26 pm
“Sometimes you have to tell your agent that I’m happy here, and you work for me,” Hudson said.
Love it. Well said, Huddy.
N8
November 5th, 2009
4:26 pm
Loaf had 496 AB’s last year, Dye had 506. Loaf had 13 HR and Dye had 27. RBI were 87-61 in favor of Dye, but are a product of surroundings more than ability. Dye slugged .453 with an OPS of .793. Loaf was .401/.705. Not ridiculously lower. But lower.
While Dye is at the tail end of his career, he did play 133 games in RF last year. If Loaf was on an AL team, he would NOT have played that many games in the field. So while not GG material, Dye is better than Loaf defensively.
And he’s RH. Cameron is also intriguing. Not as much power as Dye. His “production” stats were less than Dye’s in about 40 more AB (24 HR/70 RBI). But his slugging/OPS were about the same. .452/.795.
Add to that he played CF all of last year. So obviously, he’s still got it defensively. My gut and heart says go with Dye (I think he’ll be cheaper because of defense anyhow, than Cameron will).
But my baseball side, says go with Cameron. He’s been in the NL, he could fill in in CF if McLouth goes down and he’s probably a little more reliable health wise.
But the bottom line, is that EITHER of them would be an upgrade right now. And they’re both RH. Neither are going to be confused with Albert Pujols at the plate anytime soon. But neither would be confused with Loaf in the field, or Francoeur at the plate, either.
Which ever one wants the least money, and the shorter contract will be my “choice”. LOL! Then again, neither are probably on Wren’s radar anyhow. So my choice probably doesn’t matter much, right?
If I could sing like Pual McCartney and get funky like Etta James
November 5th, 2009
4:28 pm
I have one example for the Bradley haters – Gary Sheffield. He was a cancer everywhere, but Atlanta. Bradley will either play the Braves way or be gone, but he will feel the love. Sweet Lou did not give him the warm fuzzies he needed
N8
November 5th, 2009
4:28 pm
Forgot to add that the point of my first paragraph of the last post, was that with more power and better defense, one shouldn’t expect to get that kind of production out of Dye or Cameron for the same cost as Loaf.
If we want an upgrade, going to have to pay for it, right?
Double J
November 5th, 2009
4:31 pm
People keep bring up Jason Bay as an option for LF. Am I the only one who remembers the article on this site (or possibly on the official site) that was about how close the Braves were to trading for Bay…that there was already a jersey with his name on it. This was told to Jason, and he kind of insinuated that he was glad that the trade did not happen and that he didn’t really want to play in Atlanta.
Does anyone else remember that besides me?
dogsbrekky
November 5th, 2009
4:35 pm
Lowe and all the downers including Dobi – If Lowe wins 15 next year AGAIN I could give 2 hoots what his era is, given the super depth and class of our SP
Huddy is a class act… woo hoo a top SP with excellent win % on top of Hanson, Vazquez, Lowe, Jair and KK… 2010 looks good
let’s get 2 big bats and razzle dazzle ‘em
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
4:39 pm
N8, the first thing that popped into my mind on your Dye-Cameron post:
I’ve just had a fabulous 4-star meal with a fine Montrachet (the pitching staff), and now I’m going to have a superb brandy to top it off (Escobar, McCann, Heyward, Freeman, Schafer, et al). I don’t believe I’m gonna smoke some POS Dominican rope with it (Dye or Cameron), when there’s a fine Padron waiting over in the cigar stand.
OK, so I couldn’t finish the analogy, ’cause I don’t know who the Padron might be, but, you get the drift, LOL.
keylargo
November 5th, 2009
4:40 pm
My only hope is that Jair tells this very same thing to Scott Boras when it comes to ink a long term deal with the Braves years down the road. Supes
That date is either next off season or two years away IMO. Boras would not get that close to free agency and not try the waters.
beekay
November 5th, 2009
4:40 pm
Dye is slight upgrade over Loaf, me personally would take the chance on Bradley…I would even take another head case in Elijah Dukes who is cheap and didn’t cause any problems in DC this year before I would take Dye. Dukes has the tools , I think he needs to be around a more professional winning organization like the Braves
dogsbrekky
November 5th, 2009
4:41 pm
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
3:32 pm
tdmorgan, gotcha. Just don’t scare with me with that “defense” talk, LOL. I’d love to have a stableful of athletic, gliding, speedy, rangy guys who can hit a ton, but I’d settle for one or two guys who might have to be told how to put on the glove, but, can step into the box and make pitchers think about their mamas.
That last line made me spit my wine all over the keyboard, oh well…. next
N8
November 5th, 2009
4:42 pm
Double J. Yeah I remember it too. But things were different then. He went to the Red Sox. Where would you rather be traded? I don’t think him not wanting to come to Atlanta was personal, or something he didn’t like about the city.
He just happened to be traded to a team with a real shot at winning, and spoke his mind that he was glad the non-trade (and the actual trade) worked out the way they did.
You think John Smoltz was excited about being traded to the Braves (coming from the Tigers) in 1987?
Gotta put things into perspective before rushing to judgement. Like I said, I don’t remember the details of his comments. If he dissed the city of Atlanta and I don’t remember it, feel free to set me straight. LOL
Thrillhouse44
November 5th, 2009
4:46 pm
I don’t believe I’m gonna smoke some POS Dominican rope with it (Dye or Cameron), when there’s a fine Padron waiting over in the cigar stand.
You can never go wrong with a good Cuban. They’re just hard to find.
nolie
November 5th, 2009
4:46 pm
Rochey was a 957 hitter for us, gonna be damn near impossible to replace that so whomever they replace him with is gonna be a pretty big comedown MTL. Gonna take some effort and some luck to keep the offense as good as it was in the second half. We need a comeback from Chipper just to make up that difference IMO and still need to improve the, OF and let’s not forget the pen.
O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
4:48 pm
I think the Braves need to go for a big bat, and not some cheap 2 year stop gap player. We know that good pitching beats good hitting, but the Phillies lineup is loaded, and we dont know if Chipper will bounce back next year.
If we resign LaRoche, he is a slow starter, so we will need someone to pick up some slack early on (which Tex couldn’t do. Speaking of Tex, he really struggled in the World Series).
geauxbraves2000
November 5th, 2009
4:49 pm
Taken from Angels re-sign Abreu to 2-year deal, The Associated Press, “Several Los Angeles teammates credited Abreu with changing the club’s approach at the plate with his deliberate, patient at-bats.”
Deliberate, patient at-bats. Not hurried, got a dinner reservation at-bats but deliberate, patient at-bats.
Okay, I’ll disappear again. Read a lot, post a little.
Deliberate, patient at-bats.
DAP
November 5th, 2009
4:49 pm
when there’s a fine Padron waiting over in the cigar stand.
but there isnt one waiting. they are sold out.
ill add for dye, that he was having a killer 2009 before august rolled around. he was having an excellent year.
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
4:49 pm
Thrill, I actually smoke one so rarely now that I might not even be able to tell the difference anymore, LOL.
N8
November 5th, 2009
4:53 pm
scoots, in your analogy, is it same to assume, that YOU are assuming that I say sign Cameron or Dye INSTEAD OF calling up Heyward?
If that is the case, you are wrong. My thought is to sign one of them to play RF (with Diaz and Church – or some other LH outfielder) platooning in LF. Then as soon as Heyward is ready, move Dye/Cameron over to LF, with Heyward taking over in RF.
Then we still have our RH bat. Diaz is in his more suited role of 4th OF/PH off the bench role, and the contract for a Dye/Cameron is to be a short one as to not block Schafer when he is ready.
Had Schafer gotten his full year of AAA (after being sent down) in last year, I wouldn’t even be pondering this thought. I’d be thinking RH 1B to replace LaRoche. But I think with Schafer’s injury, he needs some time to get it back together. Perhaps he’s the first guy called up in case of injury next year? Perhaps he is ready and it allows us to trade mclouth? Perhaps, he gets called up instead of Heyward and Heyward is given all year to develop at AA and AAA?
I just think if Dye could be had for around 8-10 (combined) over 2 years, why not? Though as I said, defensively (and I like defense), Cameron is a better option.
Of course, we wouldn’t want a strong bench at anytime. Norton was just fine there last year. So even when the kids finally get called up, we’d have ZERO use for a guy like Cameron, right?
In a perfect world, Prado and Escobar are enough RH bats in the lineup (along with Chipper against lefties), and Wren could just re-sign LaRoche, and wait for Heyward and Schafer, using Church and Diaz for the time being.
But I for one am going to be pizzed if there is not at least one RH bat with HR capability added to the OF mix, or brought in to play 1B instead of LaRoche. Isn’t that what we did last offseason with the offense? Stand pat? Assuming that the incumbent players were good enough? Better to be pro-active (fix it in the winter), than reactive (trade for McLouth in June, and LaRoche at the end of July – too little too late), don’t you think?
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
4:56 pm
but there isnt one waiting. they are sold out.
Keerist, but you’re a killjoy, DAP, LOL. But, I’m the type of guy who is going to assume they aren’t sold out, until they refuse to take my money, and even then, I’m gonna do without rather than go cheap. Just my nature.
Sometimes, folks seem willing to assume the stand is sold out before even walking over there.
Come on, man, walk with me; if they got two, I’ll buy you one!
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
4:57 pm
Double J-
I don’t remember Bay ever saying he didn’t want to be in Atlanta. I remember him saying he was happy to be in Boston, but then again who wouldn’t be?
N8-
I agree. You do get what you pay for. Just like cars, groceries, softball equipment, etc.
If we want it bad enough, we will figure out a way to go after it, and if we have to spend the money to do so, then so be it.
The Mets payroll was at 149 Mil and the Phillies was at 113 Mil in 09. I’m not saying we can keep up w/ the Mets because you just can’t, but we are going to have to try and level the playing field with the Phillies or come within 5 Mil of that.
Also, this includes Jimmy Rollins(7.5M), Cliff Lee(5.75M), Shane Victorino(3.12M), Jayson Werth(2M), and Ryan Madson(2M) all being vastly underpaid for their performances.
This leads me to the we need to bring more of the young talent along speech and also the finding the diamond in the rough speech…ie Heyward and Kimbrell.
FEAR
November 5th, 2009
5:00 pm
yeah patient at-bats…someone needs to teach the Braves that. We need to try and sucker some GM to take Lowe off our hands. I like the idea of Werth, but not having to give up Javy AND on top of that in our own division.
ncscoots
November 5th, 2009
5:00 pm
Wrong-o, nate-o, LOL. I thought that entire conversation was about Cameron or Dye being the centerpiece acquisition of the offseason. Whether it was or not, I just wanted to use the “fine dinner” analogy.
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
5:01 pm
Man! You guys really don’t like Yunel or Nate…
And most still don’t like Martin…
What do these guys have to do to earn some f’n respect around here?!
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
5:04 pm
FEAR-
How about telling our sh*t for brains hitting coach that?
I mean it leaves a bad taste in my mouth just even calling him a “hitting” coach because that would constitute him teaching anyone anything other than how much food he can stuff into his mouth at one time at the buffet.
rammerjammer
November 5th, 2009
5:08 pm
OK, so Frank keeps Javy for 2010, offers Roach 2/18 and the same to Dye, while trading KK for cheap prospects. Everyone happy with that?
dmack2027
November 5th, 2009
5:08 pm
Bradley suggests making Hanson the team’s closer.
In my opinion, the only thing Bobby could do that would be dumber would be to play McCann in CF.
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
5:09 pm
Next Year will be a crossing in the road for Philly:
Werth
Victorino
Lee
Blanton
Durbin
All of them hit free agency at the end of 2010. It’ll be interesting to see what happens.
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
5:10 pm
Did someone really compare Milton Bradley to Gary Sheffield? Nevermind that Sheff has likely Hall-of-Fame numbers. Fact is, he’s only caused problems at the end of his contract in just about every case. Teammates and managers liked Sheff; the same can’t be said for M. Bradley in most places he’s been.
P-Town Brave
November 5th, 2009
5:13 pm
Rammer-
If we could send KK somewhere and get a high ceiling 3b prospect that will be ready in 2011 and a pen arm, that would be great.
Vitters and Samardzjia come to mind because I live in IL, but somehow I think Hendry would hang up quickly on that one.
If I could sing like Pual McCartney and get funky like Etta James
November 5th, 2009
5:14 pm
I stand corrected.
monty
November 5th, 2009
5:17 pm
The Bradley proponent is obviously making that comment just to draw attention. No one could possibly be serious about having him here!
monty
November 5th, 2009
5:19 pm
Dye will not be a Brave! He should become a fulltime designated hitter. He can’t run anymore.
David O'Brien
November 5th, 2009
5:21 pm
Dogsbrekky: You shouldn’t lump me in with those down on Lowe. He had a disappointing season, but it wasn’t as bad as it’s made out to be (a dreadful stretch inflated all the numbers), and he was actually pretty good more than half the time.
Only Joel Pineiro (29) induced more double plays than Lowe (28) in the NL, and only Pineiro and Carpenter had higher groundball/flyball ratios than Lowe.
He was 7-3 with a 2.44 ERA, .240 opp avg and only 2 homers allowed in his first 13 starts, before going 0-4 with an 8.61 ERA in a five-game stretch against Orioles, Red Sox,Yankees, Phillies and Nationals (and two starts in that stretch were quality starts, at Boston and against the Phillies; the other three were awful).
After that five-game stretch, he had seven consecutive quality starts before giving up eight runs in 3-2/3 innings at Citi Field on Aug. 18. After that, his last six weeks were mostly mediocre starts, but none nearly as bad as that one against the Mets.
He still made all his starts and totaled nearly 200 innings, despite a blister here and cut finger there.
rammerjammer
November 5th, 2009
5:23 pm
P-Town,
KK would probably net us a couple of solid, but not can’t miss, prospects. Sure, dealing Lowe’s contract would be the big enchilada, but I’m not expecting that. Just some payroll relief would help. And I’m not sure Dye is gonna get a 2/18 offer…could be less.
One other thought on him…he’s a career rightfielder, and Heyward already has a claim on that. Allright, I’ve already talked myself out of it. Forget Dye.
ugaaccountant
November 5th, 2009
5:28 pm
OK, so Frank keeps Javy for 2010, offers Roach 2/18 and 2/10 to Dye, while trading DL or KK for cheap prospects. Everyone happy with that?
I’m happy with it, after making sure that we didn’t overpay for Dye. Plus I think we could trade Lowe for prospects about as easily as KK.
P. W. Hjort
November 5th, 2009
5:32 pm
Isn’t Ryan Howard a free agent after 2010?
SCJames
November 5th, 2009
5:33 pm
Yeah I know it is a reach to get Braun for KJ and prospects, just throwing out a name. I know during last offseason we had a chance to send KJ to the Cards for Ludwick. I just feel like other people have a higher value of KJ than we do and maybe we can find someone willing to give up a good player for KJ and some decent prospects.
monty
November 5th, 2009
5:37 pm
Why the fascination with Dye? Prado outhit him in avg., OBP, slugg. OPS ! and twice as many doubles! The only thing he didn’t do was hit the HR’s Dye hit. Dye struck out around 110 times on pitchers he is familiar with, Just think if he returned to the national league having to learn the pitchers and playing in a less HR friendly park!! Everyone on here would go nutts waiting for the occassional HR and watching him not be able to get to balls that LOaf got to! It would be cheaper to put Prado in RF and you would have more production and much better defense. NOt that I want Prado in the OF. just using him for a comparison.
bravesfan1984
November 5th, 2009
5:40 pm
red sox just acquired jeremy hermida from the marlins
ugaaccountant
November 5th, 2009
5:42 pm
How can Mark Bradley be employed by the Atlanta paper and be so clueless about our local MLB team? He essentially said Hanson should close because he has a cheap contract. Then he rambled on for a bit about Jonathon Papplebon’s career without really showing why Hanson was similar. Lazy writing and shockingly out of touch with reality.
ncgary
November 5th, 2009
5:43 pm
i second the i want ed . elijah dukes ,might be the cheap speed and power that could break out next season
bravito199
November 5th, 2009
5:44 pm
And the Red Sox acquired Jeremy Hermida
Eavesdropper
November 5th, 2009
5:44 pm
One source is linking the Red Sox and Braves engaging in trade talks for Escobar,and Kawakami
AustinBrave
November 5th, 2009
5:49 pm
Rammer – OK, so Frank keeps Javy for 2010, offers Roach 2/18 and the same to Dye, while trading KK for cheap prospects. Everyone happy with that?
I like this, I would add one more piece to the pie, Uggla at second, Martin RF. Now we have some power. 2010 World Series here we come!!!!!
Thundersticks
November 5th, 2009
5:49 pm
“One source is linking the Red Sox and Braves engaging in trade talks for Escobar,and Kawakami”
-Eavesdropper
Do you have a link???
P. W. Hjort
November 5th, 2009
5:51 pm
In 2009, 6 of the 9 Yankees regulars increased their OPS+ by at least 20 points from their 2008 number.
Eavesdropper
November 5th, 2009
5:51 pm
A.L. source says the Braves will receive Bucholz,Delcarmen,Lowrie,and Bard
CB
November 5th, 2009
5:52 pm
Thundersticks,probably his Aunt Gertrude.
brian
November 5th, 2009
5:53 pm
did I read somewhere Johnson for Braun???? Are you kidding me?
I don’t think the BRewers would trade Braun for Jurrjens. Someone really thinks the Brewers would trade Braun for Johnson and someone else for Johnson, McLouth, and a prospect. Unless that prospect has a last name of Heyward that ain’t happening
chris
November 5th, 2009
5:53 pm
eavesdropper, nice one lol
P. W. Hjort
November 5th, 2009
5:55 pm
How can Mark Bradley be employed by the Atlanta paper and be so clueless about our local MLB team? He essentially said Hanson should close because he has a cheap contract. Then he rambled on for a bit about Jonathon Papplebon’s career without really showing why Hanson was similar. Lazy writing and shockingly out of touch with reality.
What bothers me the most about that article is the fact that no sports writer can ever understand the sunk cost fallacy. “Oh we’re going to make this guy our back-up because he’s cheap, even though he’s a better fielder and hitter than the guy we’re paying $10 million”. “This guy won’t be our closer because he’s owed $15 million, that’s too much to pay a closer”.
Once you’ve spent the money, the money is spent. It’s a sunk cost. You then arrange your pieces in the most optimal manner. Regardless of their cost. Like I said, the cost is sunk.
P. W. Hjort
November 5th, 2009
5:56 pm
A.L. source says the Braves will receive Bucholz,Delcarmen,Lowrie,and Bard
You’re clearly just making things up.
Eavesdropper
November 5th, 2009
5:57 pm
Bard,Schafer,and Lowrie will be flipped to KC for Soria
CB
November 5th, 2009
5:57 pm
PWH,you sure you are not an accounting major? What you said is very spot on.
BravesFanChris25
November 5th, 2009
5:58 pm
Hot Stove is getting started already. Could be a hotter hot stove than I’ve heard said before the season ended.