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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
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Wayne in Utah (WWK"MLP"MD)
October 30th, 2009
2:46 pm
OJ
Sorry to offend your sensitivities…..
I tend to like to interject some humor on the blog, and if you are not in favor, for sure I will take it under advisement.
Random
October 30th, 2009
2:47 pm
<strongVaBraveFan –
Or maybe you expect Lowe to reason like this:
“Hmmm, lessee — 3 years/$45M, or 4 years/$40M with a 5th year team option for $7.5M.
“Hmmm.
“If they exercise the option, that would be exactly like the 3 years/$45M I got now, PLUS two 1-year extensions at $1.25M a year.
“Hmmmmm.
“Okay, I’ll do it.”
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
2:48 pm
Thundersticks
Thats a great point, forgot all about Ron Washington and Cruz having problems. Cruz would be a awesome pick up. But its still iffy he’s only performed for one year…. So he really isnt the Real big bat the sure thing cleanup hitter we want, but its better than Willingham or Nady and others……
Thundersticks
October 30th, 2009
2:48 pm
“The Rangers might take Kawakami for Cruz. I will need to ponder that one a while.” -Wayne in Utah (WWFWD)
I get the impression Wren doesn’t want to trade KK because of the Japanese thing. I’d like to keep him as the 5th starter, who can also pitch out of the BP.
Homer
October 30th, 2009
2:49 pm
Fire DOB.
Wayne in Utah (WWK"MLP"MD)
October 30th, 2009
2:49 pm
VaBravesFan
Sorry to be jacking you up a bit, but you gotta keep it real.
And who is this player Larouce we have that we should keep??? Is he in the low minors, or a bullpen guy?
Thundersticks
October 30th, 2009
2:51 pm
“But its still iffy he’s only performed for one year…. So he really isnt the Real big bat the sure thing cleanup hitter we want, but its better than Willingham or Nady and others……” -VaBraveFan
He might be the best thing we can afford. Short of trading Lowe early and going after Bay/Holliday, which I don’t see happening.
I wonder if Seattle would trade Ichiro?!?!?
Wayne in Utah (WWK"MLP"MD)
October 30th, 2009
2:53 pm
Homer
Yeah, he’s a “suck azz bum” for shure!
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
2:55 pm
Random
You forgot were moving him to closer fulltime, which doesnt warrant 15 mil a year, defintly when he cant even earn the 15 million as a starter. And he has the incentives to back up his salary if he is pushed back into rotation. The numbers were a example.
Or maybe i should have just said somthing like how bout going to Lowe and asking to backload his current contract to have more payroll for this offseason. paying him 10 million this year and 17.5 the next 2 years, gaining 5 million extra for moves
Now thats more realistic…..
Thundersticks
October 30th, 2009
2:59 pm
Someone mentioned earlier moving KK to the closer role and I dismissed it without a thought. But the more I think about it, that might not be a terrible option. He’s not a Mariano/Wagner/Lidge type power arm but is similar to Hoffman. This would help him last all season and his salary is more in line with a closer’s than Lowe’s.
Just trying to look at all of the options.
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
2:59 pm
Thundersticks
Ichiro makes around 16 million a year for like 3 or 4 more seasons, I have mentioned the need for speed, defense, and a true lead off guy but thats too much for one player thats not a complete slugger. So you know Ichiro makes around the same as Pujols…. Arod makes around twice as much as Pujols….. contracts make no sense sometime on how there valued. lol
The Mariners wouldnt trade Ichiro for the same reason we wouldnt trade KK
JSS
October 30th, 2009
2:59 pm
There has been some talk lately about the lack of depth in the Braves minor league system. Yesterday in his chat, Jim Callis mentioned that after the Braves top few prospects there is pretty much nothing on the farm, especially in the hitting department.
I then noticed this post on ESPN Insider:
Atlanta Braves have fired Tom Battista amidst a number of changes to the club’s scouting department, ESPN Insider’s Keith Law has learned. Battista served as the club’s regional crosschecker and is responsible for the scouting and signing of right-hander Tommy Hanson. Earlier this month, GM Frank Wren replaced departed scouting director Roy Clark with special assignment scout and former Baltimore Orioles scouting director Tony DeMacio, who turned around and fired one of the most respected an successful scouts in the organization in Battista.
Battista has been instrumental in the Braves’ farm system remaining strong, and also signed right-hander Kris Medlen and first base prospect Freddie Freeman as well as Hanson, who could be named the National League Rookie of the Year next month.
DeMacio’s drafts in Baltimore were hit-and-mostly-miss, boasting Brian Roberts, Nick Markakis and Erik Bedard, but also including Chris Britton, Jim Johnson and Brandon Fahey twice.
Law has more on both Battista and DeMacio.
Keith Law
Battista a gem in his own right
“I can’t imagine Battista will be out of work for long. He’s a well-respected and well-liked scout whose track record of finding value in later rounds is extremely valuable in an era when teams are focusing more resources on the Rule 4 draft. I don’t understand why DeMacio would choose to start his second stint as a scouting director — he was Baltimore’s scouting director from 1999 to 2004, and produced just one average big leaguer (Nick Markakis) with 10 first-round picks) — by terminating a scout who has demonstrated his value so clearly.”
DOB, why would the Braves put the Oriole’s scouting director in charge of their minor league system and then allow him to fire a scout who has obviously brought some top talent to the Atlanta organization? I know that Wren had a stint in Baltimore, but that organization has been a disaster for over a decade. Glad to see he is bringing some of that great Baltimore front office talent to the Braves. (extreme sarcasm)
ugaaccountant
October 30th, 2009
3:00 pm
Cruz has been in the majors more than just 2009 so he’s more proven than most “2nd year” players.
abwright
October 30th, 2009
3:00 pm
Steve from OH, 1:45 pm … “Man. I’d really like to know the reasoning behind Battista’s firing, … ”
Maybe Steve Phillips’s ESPN honey moved on to greener pastures?
Thundersticks
October 30th, 2009
3:00 pm
VaBraveFan
I know. But it’s nice to just dream sometimes….
Jeff R
October 30th, 2009
3:01 pm
I’d be more relucatant to move Medlen. The bullpen situation is unstable. Medlen does have the potential to set up or close. With Soriano all but gone, with the good possibility of Wren pursuing and signing Gonzo, having Medlen in the mix may be smart.
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
3:01 pm
Thundersticks
Looking and giving your opinion on options will get you burned by Random and Wayne lol (its all fun guys
) i’m having tons of fun talking baseball did get alittle mad lol but its all good lol
RC
October 30th, 2009
3:02 pm
“If anybody thinks I’m wrong about Medlen, I’d like to hear opinions. I think the fact that he’s now projected as a ML starter is way better than he was expected to be a year or two ago. Back then he was seen as middle relief prospect.” – ugaaccountant
I don’t disagree with you that Medlen COULD be a good 5th starter, but I do disagree that he’s most valuable to the 2010 Atlanta Braves in that capacity. I think he’d best serve the team next year as a solid relief pitcher who can be called upon in a pinch to spot start.
John Tucker
October 30th, 2009
3:03 pm
kEEP fAB 4-HANSON, hUDSON, JURGENS AND VASQUEZ.
TRADE ANY OF THE REST (INCLUDING CHIPPER) FOR ADRIAN GONZALEZ AND BRAVES WILL BE SET AT 1B AND FOR POWER AND RBI PRODUCTION FOR NEXT 10-12 YEARS.
Andrew in P-tang
October 30th, 2009
3:03 pm
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2009/tyib/index.jsp
EVERYONE VOTE TOMMY HANSON FOR TYIB ROY ..seems like can can vote tons of times
Jeff R
October 30th, 2009
3:05 pm
I didn’t see anything in Kawakami during the season that suggests he’d be an effective set up man or closer. The guy was fatiguing starting every five days. How many consecutive relief appearances could he make before suffering fatigue?
And I think his stuff is more suited to middle inning relief, if he relieves at all. But if Lowe goes, I’d bet he stays in the rotation.
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
3:05 pm
Jeff R
I agree about Medlen. He could settle in and be a future closer if he never gets a shot in the rotation. 72 K’s in 67 innings looks really good coming out of the bullpen.
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
3:09 pm
John Tucker
Adrain Gonzalez would require young talent in return. They would want Hanson or Heyward with more. Cody Johnson, Chris Medlen, Mike Minor, Jordan Schafer might not even be enough. But i did forget they have a new GM so things could be different. But the Pads for sure want a young package for there rebuilding team.
Wayne in Utah (WWK"MLP"MD)
October 30th, 2009
3:14 pm
VaBravesFan
Not really looking for something to ding you on (can’t speak for Random, though
), but I really enjoy talking about possibilities that are in the realm of possibility.
As somebody else stated, Boras has only been stood up a few times by his clients (Maddux?, Carlos Pena, Andruw once, and Kenny Rogers). Boras is not going to have his guy sign away potential high earnings possible years.
That is why I was saying to “keep it real”. I would encourage you to think about these things from all parties concerned. If Boras’ clients renegotiated their contracts, they lower his yearly income stream.
(My Little Pony, My Little Pony, My Little Pony…..)
Rob from SC
October 30th, 2009
3:15 pm
Forget Adrian Gonzalez. We need right handed hitters
Tomahawkin
October 30th, 2009
3:16 pm
VaBravesFan
No point in arguing with Random, I have his Monkey A.s on Ignore… He seems like one of those FOX Neo-con’s who think that they are always right no matter waht they say. In other words you are talking to an O’Reilly braves fan….
Thundersticks
October 30th, 2009
3:16 pm
John Tucker
Gonzalez is only under contract for 2 more years, and 2011 is a no-brainer option.
DAP
October 30th, 2009
3:17 pm
JSSYesterday in his chat, Jim Callis mentioned that after the Braves top few prospects there is pretty much nothing on the farm, especially in the hitting department.
you didnt go where i thought you might go with your post. i thought maybe you were going to suggest that Battisia may have been fired because of the lack of depth in the minors past the top prospects.
you didnt say it, but i dont think its the case….i mean it could be, but it shouldnt. the braves traded for vazquez and mclouth, called up medlen and hanson, and have schafer, heyward, freeman in the system still…how many great players is the organization supposed to have?
DAP
October 30th, 2009
3:18 pm
rob from SCForget Adrian Gonzalez. We need right handed hitters
why do we need RH hitters?
Wayne in Utah (WWK"MLP"MD)
October 30th, 2009
3:18 pm
Random
WOW! Tomahawkin is giving you a supreme compliment! A Fox Neo-con and an O’Reilly braves fan!!
Wait a minute, I want to be one of those guys too!!!
P-Town Brave
October 30th, 2009
3:23 pm
VA-
I stated as much about Medlen earlier in this blog…stating that if we wanted to short change the pen and go with whats already on the table, I feel we could make it with Medlen, Kimbrell, Moylan, and EOF at the back end. As long as Acosta is gone, I’ll be just fine there.
Also, the only reason we would do that is if a) we don’t trade any of our pitchers, b) we go all out after Bay or Holliday, c) we resign LaRoche and Gonzo, or d) we do some combination of the first 3.
Either way, I will be happy looking forward to 2010 knowing that Francoeur, Bennett, and Norton are no longer here and with the hope that Kelly and Manny won’t be around either
Rob from SC
October 30th, 2009
3:26 pm
because we only have Esco, Prado, and Diaz.
P-Town Brave
October 30th, 2009
3:26 pm
Rob-
THANK YOU! BTW, where have you been?
DAP-
Um…does this really need to be discussed?
McLouth – LH
Chipper – Much more power LH
McCann – LH
Escobar – hits righties better than lefties
LaRoche (if back) – LH
Heyward – LH
Schafer – LH
Freeman – LH (if any of those 3 are up)
Also if you notice, the only 3 righties we have are Prado, Escobar, Diaz…all of which have average power at best.
Tomahawkin
October 30th, 2009
3:29 pm
Wayne In Utah
In the 4 years I have been on this blog, I usually don’t have problems with people on this blog, unless they are met/yankee trolls….
Random is another case however. He attacked me first during midseason when I called Chipper out on having an “off year” I tried to make a truce with him but he he kept bringing it on, therefore now I have him on ignore
Andrew
October 30th, 2009
3:32 pm
Ludwick for KK
DAP
October 30th, 2009
3:33 pm
p-town braveUm…does this really need to be discussed?
yeah i think it does. see, in 2009, the braves had a higher batting average and slg% against lefties than they did against righties. but everyone seems to think we need to get a righthanded batter to help vs. lefties. i dont see it that way. i just think we need to get the best hitter we can get.
and chipper makes 4 righties. as a switch hitter, he should be included in both categories.
Wayne in Utah (WWK"MLP"MD)
October 30th, 2009
3:33 pm
Tomahawkin
I take offense though, when a blogger wants to rip another blogger, and uses my hero’s in their slam! Get it? (you really don’t want to get me started, do ya?
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
3:36 pm
As much as I would love to have Adam LaRoche back, it might be easier to get a right handed masher for first base than for the outfield.
D Lee? Adam Dunn?? (I know, he is not right handed)
P-Town Brave
October 30th, 2009
3:37 pm
DAP-
Ok, I’ll bite, can you give me some numbers because I distinctly remember BMac and LaRoche having awful years v LHP along w/ Chipper having an awful year period.
Also, aren’t the best two available OF position players right handed anyways?
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
3:45 pm
Also with the Lefthanded heavy lineup like we have and will add more to it, it makes it easier for matchups for the other manager. They can brinkg in a tough lefty for 2 innings cause we have 5 lefties coming up out of 6, its unbalanced.
If Adam LaRoche was a Righty he would have been batting Clean up not 7th and 8th
Yes we did hit lefties better, but overall Lefty vs Lefty favors the pitcher
P. W. Hjort
October 30th, 2009
3:46 pm
TRADE ANY OF THE REST (INCLUDING CHIPPER) FOR ADRIAN GONZALEZ AND BRAVES WILL BE SET AT 1B AND FOR POWER AND RBI PRODUCTION FOR NEXT 10-12 YEARS.
Oh boy. Where do I start with this one?
Random
October 30th, 2009
3:47 pm
VaBraveFan (October 30th, 2009 2:28 pm): “Whatever man… sick of arguing with you.”
Ahhh, now don’t be like that, all bitter and stuff. Ain’t nothin’ personal.
“Older players do deals like this all the time.”
No. They really don’t. They don’t agree to play an extra year for less overall money than they’ve already got under contract.
“If he continues his decline It would be a good move to have accepted the new deal. He is a athlete so when his deal is up he is done…..”
You’re right there. The question is would he rather be “done” after 3 years and $45M, or after 4 years and $40M. It’s really a no-brainer for Lowe to say no to that proposal.
“Will he garner a new contract for 1 or 2 years at the age of 40 not likely….”
Maybe not, but he would be $5M richer if he quit after three years than if he quit after four. And he will be able to get a new contract if he’s still able to pitch at 40, but the team that signs him will be paying HIM, not making him pay them $5M.
“Its a fiar deal as well considering how much he would get on the open market which would be less than 15 a year.”
What he might get on the open market is immaterial since he already has a contract for the next three years.
“Also giving him options if he doesnt want to walk away from the game yet.”
If he’s still willing and able to pitch after 3 years, he’d still have the option to negotiate a contract (and with all teams, not just the Braves). And any contract he negotiates would be $5M plus the value of that contract MORE than what you’re having the Braves offer him for that 4th year.
“My idea makes plenty of sense.”
Maybe for the Braves, but definitely not for Lowe.
“Why be so critical?”
‘Cause it’s just incredibly patronizing, condescending and sloppy thinking, and I often feel an obligation to educate and correct. Aren’t you grateful for my guidance?!?
its Just a thought a idea involving Lowe. your getting more upset over this meantioned idea than the idea of JJ being traded away…….”
(October 30th, 2009 2:45 pm): “I understand all that, major contract changes dont happen much, but baised on just that doesnt make it a bad idea for the braves.”
I’m 1000% with you there. It’d be a GREAT deal for the Braves. Just not for Lowe.
Rob from SC
October 30th, 2009
3:48 pm
P-Town Brave
Recovering from shoulder surgery. I don’t like typing with this big ass bulky brace.
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
3:48 pm
PW Hjort
Leave it alone….
P-Town Brave
October 30th, 2009
3:49 pm
DAP-
Here’s some interesting numbers in found which go against your theory:
vs LHP as LH 745 AB 102 R 187 H 30 2b 2 3b 21 HR 97 RBI 66 BB 156 K .251 AVG .317 OBP .381 SLG .698 OPS
vs LHP as RH 927 AB 129 R 261 H 53 2b 4 3b 27 HR 122 RBI 108 BB 157 K .282 AVG .356 OBP .435 SLG .790 OPS
So actually you would be wrong on all accounts there…sorry
Tomahawkin
October 30th, 2009
3:51 pm
Wayne in Utah…
I called out Chipper this year because he said he was the “Leader of the team” and he didn’t back that up with his play on the field …I called him out in May on that and I get my A..s handed to me by the likes of Random among others, And I found out that there is no point in arguing with Random and his crew
Most journalists/commentators call players out on that…I’m suprised that D.O.B. didn’t call him out for his off-year-production wise. I know he is more mellow than Schultz and Bisher, but those two would’ve called Chipper out in August…
No hate against Chipper but he didn’t back his words like David Justice used to and Justice got slammed left and right when he said something about the team…
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
3:52 pm
Rob
Have you started therapy yet??? My therapist and I became good friends, over the 1.5 years we worked on my shoulder. But he dang sure wasn’t shy about pushing me to tears!
Good luck with that!
Rob from SC
October 30th, 2009
3:52 pm
Whether the Braves can win the World Series next year or in the near future is up to ownership. We have the starting pitching, and a core of young position players to compete for WS titles for 5 years. All we need is for ownership to give Frank Wren the money to acquire the power RH bat Jason Bay or Matt Holliday provide
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
3:57 pm
Tomahawkin
Don’t you understand that DOB has to tread lightly on his criticism of players on the team. He is a beat writer. He doesn’t write an opinion column. If he called every player out whenever they had a bad week/month/year, pretty soon he wouldn’t have a damned thing to write about, because nobody would talk to him.
(DOB, please correct me if I am off base here)
T’hawkin: I was giving you some friendly crap over your use of conservative icons in ripping Random. Rip him all you want, as I don’t think it bothers him in the least, to be honest with you.
Drive by blogger
October 30th, 2009
3:57 pm
Mike Cameron, anybody?
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
3:58 pm
Random
Good Stuff man i had a feeling you were gonna answer all those questions like that lol, Its all good, i got a little mad, but hell my idea wasnt as wacky as some of the others i’ve seen on here before lol were good
Random
What about my other idea about offered to back load Lowe’s contract, paying him 10 million this year and 17.5 the the following 2. Leaving us 5 more million extra to use this offseason. Now thats realistic right ? lol
David O'Brien
October 30th, 2009
3:58 pm
Just got to my Philly hotel.
Had an e-mail with the Fielding Bible Award winners. It’s long, so instead of cutting-and-pasting here, I’ll just give you the link. The 10-percent panel that chose the winners included Posnanski, Gammons and Bill James.
http://www.fieldingbible.com/
P-Town Brave
October 30th, 2009
3:58 pm
Rob-
Yeah and if we only fell *ss backwards into a given up on talent like a Jayson Werth that would be great as well.
Oh, and good luck with your recovery. Having gone through multiple surgeries in multiple locations, I know how that feels. Good luck!
Rob from SC
October 30th, 2009
3:58 pm
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO’ReillyD)
I start therapy in 2 weeks
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
3:59 pm
Rob
The Bay/Holliday thing might happen, but I am not going to bet the farm on it.
Did I say the market kicked my keister today??
rammerjammer
October 30th, 2009
3:59 pm
Tomahawkin,
Beat writers such as DOB don’t “call out” players, you doofus. They work with the players (and coaches) practically every day, and their access will be severely constrained by calling people out.
Bisher and Schultz are columnists, tucked away safely behind the keyboard and peering out from time to time to utter some banalities. There are some exceptional columnists, such as Joe Posnanski, but most are lazy-a bums who think they’re much more clever than they really are.
Rob from SC
October 30th, 2009
4:00 pm
P-Town Brave
Phillies did get lucky with Werth
Shaun
October 30th, 2009
4:00 pm
Matt Diaz was worth 1 win less than Jason Bay and 3.2 wins less than Matt Holliday (according to FanGraphs.com), and Diaz had significantly fewer plate appearances than both. Also, both players are going to make significantly more money.
ugaaccountant
October 30th, 2009
4:02 pm
Chipper in 2009 was a better player relative to the era than Justice ever was. Justice was a “power hitter” in the steroid era, that as best I recall never hit 30 homeruns a year? I doubt he ever had an OBP of .380ish like Chipper this year.
Ignoring that, what purpose would “calling chipper out” serve? From everything I read on here, he’s always early to the ballpark working on his hitting or doing Terry Pendelton’s job for him. The guy is always willing to help anyone out on the team that asked him, which to me is being a leader. He was doing his absolute best to play better, and that’s all I can ask of anyone is 100% effort.
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
4:02 pm
VaBravesFan
I have seen no evidence that Lowe would do anything contrary to his agent’s recommendations.
I think Scott Boras was the one who said, “A bird in the hand, is better than two in the bush.”
Travis
October 30th, 2009
4:03 pm
Even though I hate to admit it, the only reasonable trades for top shelf position players involve Vasquez. Teams out there aren’t going to trade players like Cruz unless they get equal value in a starting pitcher. Medlin and JoJo won’t make an impact next year. Cruz will.
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
4:04 pm
Shaun
That is a good point, but i dont like how they figure that stuff out using a confsuing formula and crap.
Put Holliday or Bay on the 2009 Braves we would have been the Wild Card team….
P-Town Brave
October 30th, 2009
4:05 pm
Shaun-
That can be taken both ways…
If Diaz gets more AB’s and time in the field he could be worth more or less…we just really don’t know…
I still wonder how that is calculated though considering the difference in RBI’s, BA, and numbers between the 3 players.
Random
October 30th, 2009
4:05 pm
VaBraveFan (October 30th, 2009 2:55 pm): “You forgot were moving him to closer fulltime, which doesnt warrant 15 mil a year, defintly when he cant even earn the 15 million as a starter. And he has the incentives to back up his salary if he is pushed back into rotation. The numbers were a example.”
Understood — the incentive/option numbers were examples. But you can’t ignore the fact that Lowe’s already got that $45M in his back pocket, whether he starts, closes or is released or traded. In which case, he doesn’t need incentives to let him possibly earn back for himself the money you want him to simply give away. ‘Cause he ain’t gonna give it away.
“Or maybe i should have just said somthing like how bout going to Lowe and asking to backload his current contract to have more payroll for this offseason. paying him 10 million this year and 17.5 the next 2 years, gaining 5 million extra for moves
“Now thats more realistic…..”
Maybe so, maybe so — Boras would probably want to increase the out years some more to account for inflation, but it sounds like a reasonable approach that would allow the Braves to free up some money in 2010.
Wizard in the Corner
October 30th, 2009
4:06 pm
You can add me to the list of people who would like to know the reason that Battista was let go. It is easy to look at this from afar and say that Wren is bringing in his people who are bringing in people they feel comfotable working together. This happens when there are changes in upper management. My question would be why JS signed off on this maneuver? Also, should the fans be concerned that in the past few years, the organization has lost Dayton Moore, Roy Clark, and Battista now? It is not that those three are without mistakes. Still, their track record is strong and what confidence should we have in their successors?
On a side note, DOB, will you be traveling to Knoxville when the Jayhawks face my Vols in basketball?
ugaaccountant
October 30th, 2009
4:07 pm
What about my other idea about offered to back load Lowe’s contract, paying him 10 million this year and 17.5 the the following 2. Leaving us 5 more million extra to use this offseason. Now thats realistic right ? lol
That’s realistic because it’s the same total money and thus isn’t screwing over Derek as bad as the first idea. A dollar today is preferable to a dollar tommorow, which is why you’re proposing the Braves saving a dollar today even though we’ll have to pay it later.
However, it’s still not a good idea. I still intend to be a Braves fan in 2011 and 2012 and I don’t want those teams to have bigger payroll issues just so 2010 can be a little better.
Travis
October 30th, 2009
4:07 pm
I said the same thing about restructuring Chippers contract out into retirement. Why not?
Shaun
October 30th, 2009
4:07 pm
ugaaccountant, come on. You can do better than that. BaseballReference.com. Justice had 2 40-homer seasons and .378 career on-base. I think Justice had a generally underrated career I suspect because he didn’t have a high batting average and we forget how much power he had because he had up and down seasons in the homerun department.
David O'Brien
October 30th, 2009
4:09 pm
Tomahawkin’, what are you talking about with this “Call him out” garbage? What the h does that mean? Chipper struggled for much of this season, had arguably the worst overall season of his entire career. He knows it and has said it, and it bothered him so much that he’s said he’d considering retiring if he repeats it.
I’ve said he was woeful for much of the season, that by his lofty standards, he stunk. That he was a mediocre player after the first two months. I’ve pointed this out again and again, giving you the stats, comparing him to his past numbers, telling you he led the majors in errors by third baseman, etc.
Call him out? Dude, how old are you? What do you want me to do, exactly, to “call him out”? He’s a proud, 37-year-old veteran who struggled like never before for much of the season. You think he needs to be “called out” for that? Admonished? Maybe if he denied it or disputed it or acted as if he doesn’t care. But none of the above are the case. At all. So please, gimme a break.
Oh, and you speak of Schultz as if he’s past tense. Did he leave the paper or something? Because I wasn’t aware of that. And Furman didn’t retire until a few weeks ago. So again, what are you talking about, how they “would have” said this or that?…
By the way, to the person (not you, Tomahawkin) who suggested the Braves should trade just about anybody including Chipper for Adrian Gonzalez … that’s a bit illogical. If the Padres trade Gonzalez, it will only be to shed more payroll while adding a ton of young, cheap talent in return. So they’re gonna trade Gonzalez for a guy who’s about a decade older and is owed $42 million over the next three seasons?
Please, think before suggesting something like that.
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
4:09 pm
Rob
The trick is to figure out who the next Jason Werth is??? Now that is easier said than done. (Victorino too!)
Random
October 30th, 2009
4:09 pm
VaBraveFan (October 30th, 2009 3:01 pm): “Thundersticks
“Looking and giving your opinion on options will get you burned by Random and Wayne lol (its all fun guys ) i’m having tons of fun talking baseball did get alittle mad lol but its all good lol”
Isn’t it ironic that you and I both heartily endorsed Thundersticks‘ Wish List?
rammerjammer
October 30th, 2009
4:10 pm
Shaun, so what’s your point, please? Matt Diaz is nearly the equal of Jason Bay? Is that it? Please say what’s on your mind without just vomiting up statistical analyses. If your purpose was only to point out that Diaz makes less money and had fewer at bats, thanks for that breaking news.
nolie
October 30th, 2009
4:11 pm
Well, ol’ Salty hasn’t exactly lit up the AL, so, as DOB reported, he might be gettable if Wren pursues Cruz. (Jeff R)
so that is a reason taht we should get him? He can’t hit wortha damn in a great hitters park but we want him a pitcher’s park? Man you need to rethink that one. Just cause a guy was a Braves prospect or used to play for the Braves is no reason to want him back, and I sure don’t see any other reason that we would want him.
Travis
October 30th, 2009
4:11 pm
If things get any worse with the Dodgers ownership, LA might have to unload some talent. What would you give for Kemp?
DAP
October 30th, 2009
4:14 pm
p-town wrong on my accounts? no, im not. here is alink that will show the braves as a team versus lefties and versus righties.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=ATL&year=2009
this isnt what our lefties did against lefties, this is what our team as a whole did against lefties. as a whole, they hit for a higher average and slg% against lefties. the numbers are actually very close, but to say that the braves need a righthanded hitter so they can hit lefties better, or even for more power, is false. if they need to improve against lefties or righties, its actually righties.
there are other reasons for wanting to add a righthanded hitter, but hitting better versus lefties isnt one of them, and who ever doesnt want adrian gonzalez because he is a lefty (rob from SC) isnt thinking straight.
by the way, with diaz in the lineup, if we resign laroche we have 4 righties (im including chipper because he is both) and 4 lefties, which means it isnt hard to LRLR your lineup.
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
4:15 pm
ugaaccountant
The extra 5 million would benifit the attempt to land us a clean up hitter to come to atlanta for 3-4 years. Or help solify the bullpen. The organization is counting penny’s , they need money now to bolster the team for the next 3-4 years by adding that power bat. As i mentioned the Braves couldnt top a 1 yr 5 million dollar deal the Angels gave the Abreu. We had to opt for a 1 yr. 2mil deal with Loaf…. Also leading to the trading of valuble prospects to Land McLouth which mean leading to Glavine being released caus we couldnt affored to keep him for 2 million….. Dont fire back with Hanson emerging and getting his shot, Glavine being released after the Smoltz thing wasnt good It turned out good Cause of Hanson, but dont tell me Abreu wouldnt have not made a difference cause he sure as hell would have lol
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
4:15 pm
I would give Escobar for Kemp. (oh heck, I am going to catch crap for that one!)
nolie
Can we have DeRosa back?
P-Town Brave
October 30th, 2009
4:16 pm
Wayne-
Yeah, give Rob all the credit, I’m the one who mentioned Werth. (jk)
But yeah, thats what scouts and other evaluators are for. It really is hit and miss though to figure out why it takes someone so long for it to click.
Phily is lucky in a sense that they have 2 bonafide hitting coaches in not only Thompson, but their manager who was one of the very best at what he did.
In the Braves case, we have NONE, and in reality, haven’t had one since Don Baylor who seemed to work wonders with Andruw Jones.
I vote for Howie! (I’m certain you’ll agree McFann)
Rob from SC
October 30th, 2009
4:18 pm
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO’ReillyD)
Don’t start with the trade Escobar SH** again
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
4:19 pm
Random
We agree on alot man lol I’m 22 y/o and i enjoy coming up with ideas involving everythig to do with the Braves and sometime’s I get carried away. But i do know alot about the game. I been a braves fan for 13 years and will be one for Life! lol
ugaaccountant
October 30th, 2009
4:20 pm
But after this year we’d have to cut 7.5 million in salary just to stay even in payroll. As you say, we’re counting every penny. I don’t want to cut later to enjoy today.
nolie
October 30th, 2009
4:21 pm
but I’m not employed by the braves so I don’t know the exact salaries and contract status of every player in MLB or even on the Braves. I use approximate numbers or numbers I read here on the blog. (Uga Acc)
here’s a great source if you aren’t already familiar with it
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_15_mlbcontracts_archive.html
Thrillhouse44
October 30th, 2009
4:22 pm
If things get any worse with the Dodgers ownership, LA might have to unload some talent. What would you give for Kemp?
I’d give up a Klondike bar.
ugaaccountant
October 30th, 2009
4:22 pm
Use an extreme example. Let’s say we defer 10 million of chippers salary until 2020-2030. That sounds great now, but how bad would it suck in 2025 when we’re paying a guy for what he did 15 years before?
That’s why I don’t like backloading contracts.
P-Town Brave
October 30th, 2009
4:22 pm
DAP-
Did you not see those numbers?!
They were completely skewed by the fact that our right handed hitters hit lefties so well as in almost 100 pts higher in OPS and over 30 pts higher in BA. SLG% is also 54 pts higher with righties in the box.
If you take overall numbers you see virtually same SLG and exact same OBP for 8 pts of difference in OPS.
The main key is that our RHH are just simply better hitters. Look at them: Diaz, Escobar, Prado all .300 hitters while on the bottom side you have LaRoche, McLouth, and BMac who all hit under .300
We still need another RH bat who can hit lefties because even with the highest SLG as RHH v LHP (.435) we only hit 27 HR.
Random
October 30th, 2009
4:23 pm
Wayne in Utah (October 30th, 2009 3:18 pm): “WOW! Tomahawkin is giving you a supreme compliment! A Fox Neo-con and an O’Reilly braves fan!!
“Wait a minute, I want to be one of those guys too!!!”
Aaahhhhh — cool yer jets, Gus.
Nothin’ means nothin’ comin’ from that refugee from a 70s sitcom.
You can’t believe half of what he says — he just makes stuff up when it suits him.
Later.
Wayne in Utah (WWBillO'ReillyD)
October 30th, 2009
4:26 pm
Rob
Someone asked the question. You wouldn’t trade him for Matt Kemp? I didn’t start it, I promise!
Jeff R
October 30th, 2009
4:26 pm
Wizard in the Corner… I share your concern, but internal personnel moves are hard to gauge, unless you’ve got some insider’s knowledge. I think the best bet is to see how well the Braves draft in the upcoming season and next. See how some of the pundits and pros rate the drafts, and then – longer term – how those draft choices pan out.
VaBraveFan
October 30th, 2009
4:26 pm
ugaaccountant
It wouldnt be just today, Having an extra 5 million for just 2010 is huge when it comes to signing a FA, We can offer a competitive contract by the player recieving more in his 1st year with us then the contract would turn to a base pay each year after.. For example 13 million then 10 million for each year after and what not.
Also the could 5 million would help with solifying the bullpen.
All this talk is soley on if Lowe cant be moved. Cause if Lowe cant be moved thats makes is very unlikely we get the power bat or have the money to even think about extending Javy…
nolie
October 30th, 2009
4:27 pm
Maybe Wren trades both Lowe AND Kawakami and lets Medlen start in 2010 (Lew)
I’ll pull a KC and offer a wager that won’t happen
Thrillhouse44
October 30th, 2009
4:28 pm
Use an extreme example. Let’s say we defer 10 million of chippers salary until 2020-2030. That sounds great now, but how bad would it suck in 2025 when we’re paying a guy for what he did 15 years before? ugaaccountant
Exactly. Just ask the Redskins how well that worked out with Deion and Bruce Smith. It’s about to bite them again with Portis.
ugaaccountant
October 30th, 2009
4:30 pm
Thanks Nolie,
Reading that website, Ryan Braun has a no-trade clause.
Kemp though is an up and coming superstar not too far behind Braun in the pecking order of OF’s. I’d put up a significant package to get him if I’m correct that he’s still got 4 years of team control.
DAP
October 30th, 2009
4:31 pm
p-townThey were completely skewed by the fact that our right handed hitters hit lefties so well as in almost 100 pts higher in OPS and over 30 pts higher in BA. SLG% is also 54 pts higher with righties in the box.
so your solution for this is to get another righthanded hitter who also crushes lefties? that doesnt make sense. think about it for a second.
overall, the teams numbers were worse against righthanders. so, why not get a lefty who can kill righties?
MY point is that the braves need to just get the best hitter they can get. as a team they already hit lefties better than righties, though its pretty much even. so just get a good hitter, and i dont care what side of the plate he stands on.
DAP
October 30th, 2009
4:32 pm
p-town or maybe what you want is a lefty who hits lefties better, since you pointed out what our lefties did versus lefties? trying to understand….
Jeff R
October 30th, 2009
4:32 pm
DOB… Was just throwing out the question to see what sort of response it would get (not very good, evidently). As I wrote later, I’d much rather Wren make a serious run at signing LaRoche than pursuing a free agent or a trade. I think it’s a mistake to let LaRoche walk. Having said that, if Wren is of another mind, I’m not seeing much talent available to bridge the gap between LaRoche and Freeman.
nolie
October 30th, 2009
4:33 pm
Atlanta Braves have fired Tom Battista amidst a number of changes to the club’s scouting department, ESPN Insider’s Keith Law has learned. Battista served as the club’s regional crosschecker and is responsible for the scouting and signing of right-hander Tommy Hanson. (PWH)
that news just ruined my day. I am not a big DeMacio fan anyway
Jeff R
October 30th, 2009
4:35 pm
nolie… I clarified the comment in later posts, fyi.
Wayne in Utah (WWDOBD)
October 30th, 2009
4:35 pm
Alright Dave, we are paying you good money (I think we are, anyway) to dig up some legit Braves rumors. Been a bit dry lately. We might have to turn Homer loose on you if you don’t get yer act together now.
Enjoy your last day as Prez!
McFann Ô
October 30th, 2009
4:37 pm
P-Town I vote for Howie! (I’m certain you’ll agree McFann)
Oh yeah, totally!
The main key is that our RHH are just simply better hitters.
Uummmm………Pardon? Did you you mean were better hitters in 2009?
Wayne in Utah (WWDOBD)
October 30th, 2009
4:37 pm
p-town and DAP
Why don’t we just say the Braves need a good cleanup hitter, who can mash righties and lefties with equal amounts of thunder.