4:58 pm October 28, 2009, by David O'Brien
October 30th, 200912:36 pm
Can’t wait to see next years draft. Honestly, I just hope they have a bigger budget for scouting and player development. As discussed, the system needs positional player talent in the lower levels.
I agree Lowe even tho he had a off year, still pitched solid, and with the run support he got and getting his 15 wins which is what we were expecting, its seems the team played really hard for him on his starts. For JJ to only get 13 wins with a 2.60 era and Lowe to get 15 with a ERA 2 runs higher is saying somthing….
October 30th, 200912:37 pm
VaBraveFan – Lowe, in his career as a reliever (1588 PA against):
2.95 ERA (4.03 as starter)
2.99 K/BB (2.14 as starter)
.652 OPS against (.702 as starter)
7.1 K/9 (5.6 as starter)
85 saves (42 in 2000)
Sinkerballer or not, he was a pretty good closer. Now, I do agree with you about the $15MM for a closer statement…
October 30th, 200912:38 pm
OK, which Braves exec peed in Keith Law’s punch? That dude has a grudge that never rests.
Nova Scotia Steve
I just puked when I saw Dan Kolb’s name…
October 30th, 200912:39 pm
Lowe isnt gonna bring a RH power bat back in return unless there comparble contracts and it would be someone in the same boat as Lowe, big contract and only a solid year. But with so many varibles and adding players to the mix things can change, but it wont be a 1 for 1 swap and we have a new cleanup hitter.
And by “more money for scouting and player development”, I just meant more money to spend on draft selections.
Efrim-Just floating scenarios-not that I’m that sold on doing the trade two pitchers thing. I would rather have the strength in pitching, after seeing how pitching staffs can be decimated during the grind of a season.
Personally, I think just trading Lowe would do all we need in freeing salary, but like you said-Wren does like to think out of the box, so there’s no telling what he’s got on his mind as far as specific scenarios go.
VaBravesFan-I’m more on favor of trading Lowe than handing him the closer role (IF he would accept it anyway). Again, just speculation and nothing more.
Wayne in Utah (WWFWD)
October 30th, 200912:40 pm
Parr, Campillo and Carlyle might be other emergency starting candidates. I realize Jorge and Buddy were re-assigned.
What do yall think of my idea about Restructuring Lowe contract???
October 30th, 200912:41 pm
VaBRavesFan-Trading Lowe has it’s benefits in freeing up $15 mil per year over the next 3 years-NOT in who we could receive in return, though it might be a bigger piece than you realize.
VaBravesFan-I don’t see that restructuring happening.
P. W. Hjort
You’re forgetting who Lowe’s agent is.
October 30th, 200912:45 pm
TnBrian (October 30th, 2009
11:56 am): “I was thinking the same thing about them trying to trade Lowe before going after a hitter. Could be way off there, but it would make some sense to move his salary somewhere first, especially since they’re apparantly about to reup Hudson. In a perfect scenario, Wren could trade Lowe for a prospect having the other team take his entire salary on, sign Gonzo/LaRoche & then go after Cruz, who’d also be my number one choice because he can hit for power,cheap,plays good D & he’s way more realistic than a Braun.”
Imo, it’d be smarter for Wren to just sit back and let the trade market for Lowe develop (bloom and grow, bloom and grow forever).
I’d think he’d get more for him that way, whether it be prospects, bench/bullpen or the very hitter he wants.
But you may be right if that hitter comes via free agency — it might be best to clear Lowe’s salary first before signing a pricey FA.
I guess it depends on how solid Wren thinks the trade market for Lowe will be. (Or become.)
October 30th, 200912:47 pm
Random-Calloo, Callay. Aren’t you concerned that re-signing Hudson first weakens Wren’s trade position? Seems to me at that point, other teams would realize he HAD to trade a pitcher and he might not get as much in return, or as good a deal because they felt they had him over a barrell?
I like the idea, but doesn’t that greatly weaken the pen? My thought was that if we couldn’t get Gonzo back or afford any more arms for the pen that we bring Kimbrell through and let him and Medlen go at it for the closer’s job or just flat out give it to Kris. He does have 9th inning shutdown stuff!
Also, this is from MLBTradeRumors:
The Braves have about $81MM committed before arbitration raises to Johnson, Diaz, Church, Moylan, and Logan. Johnson and Logan are potential trade/non-tender candidates. Regardless, the Braves should fall under $90MM (and that includes an estimated $9MM for Hudson). According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, the Braves began 2009 with a $96.7MM payroll. Ultimately I can see Braves GM Frank Wren having close to $15MM to spend without raising payroll.
First base and left field are two positions Wren must address this winter. The Braves intend to add a right-handed power bat; we ran through options here. At the time, I didn’t realize Jason Bay and Matt Holliday might be considerations. The plan for first base might be to re-sign Adam LaRoche, though there are respectable free agent alternatives.
Wren will probably sign a reliever, as closers Rafael Soriano and Mike Gonzalez are up for free agency. Both project as Type A free agents; will the Braves offer arbitration? If either player accepts, the Braves can offer any salary they want and have that figure pitted against the submission from the player’s agent. Still, Soriano earning $6.1MM this year against $3.45MM for Gonzalez might lead to an arbitration offer only for the latter. The argument against Moylan closing is that lefties handle him well. Pairing him with O’Flaherty in the ninth has potential if the Braves want to save money in the bullpen. And don’t forget that Medlen had 53 strikeouts in 49.3 relief innings this year.
So the Braves have needs at first base, left field, and possibly the bullpen. Considering the inflated price of free agent power hitters, how can Wren fill all these holes on a $12-15MM budget? The Braves’ pitching surplus could be the answer. Kawakami’s contract isn’t unreasonable. Lowe’s is, given his declining peripherals. Lowe is still useful, though, so the Braves could still trade him and shed 2010 payroll even if they can’t find a taker for all $15MM.
Dierkes’ suggestion: retain the starting pitching depth. In all likelihood Kawakami will still be needed for 20+ starts next year. The Braves could instead bump payroll to $100MM, dump Johnson and Logan, go cheap on the bullpen, perhaps backload Hudson’s deal, and spend $9-10MM each for the first base and left field spots. Perhaps Johnson could even be used to acquire a decent late-inning reliever.
Interesting paragraph at the end of the Braves’ “Offseason Outlook” over at MLBTradeRumors.com.
“My suggestion: retain the starting pitching depth. In all likelihood Kawakami will still be needed for 20+ starts next year. The Braves could instead bump payroll to $100MM, dump Johnson and Logan, go cheap on the bullpen, perhaps backload Hudson’s deal, and spend $9-10MM each for the first base and left field spots. Perhaps Johnson could even be used to acquire a decent late-inning reliever.”
While I personally don’t think it’s “likely” that Kawakami is needed for 25+ starts, it’s certainly far from a sure thing that our rotation remains as healthy and effective as it did last year. My biggest problem with the analysis is the suggestion that the Braves’ “bump the payroll to $100 million”. That’s simply not going to happen, and I think we all know it. However, I think that if we can afford to spend $5-6 million on 1b and $10 million on left field, there could be something to this idea. I might also add “dump Church” to his analysis, but I don’t think you want to do that until you’ve got a new left fielder under contract.
October 30th, 200912:48 pm
Yeah your right, considering how weak the starting pitching is on the FA market. But only a handful of team would be willing to take the contract, most would want us to eat some of it so its really a big question mark on the money.
The Yankees spend the most, but when the braves tried to trade for Nick Swisher last offseason, it was reported that the Braves wanted the Yankess to eat a little of Swisher’s contract but they were not willing to what so ever. Wierd how they’ll spend all that money but make a big deal about maybe eating 2 mil of Swishers contract…
October 30th, 200912:50 pm
If it was projected at almost 97 Mil at the end of 09, that would only be another 3 Mil so really thats not saying much, especially when McGuirk stated last year that if the Braves continue to remain competitive that the team salary would go up 10-15% which would mean somewhere in between 106-111 Mil from the 97.
October 30th, 200912:56 pm
While everyone keeps saying that, I’m not sure I believe it. I as well see the lack of pitching depth coming out as a free agent and if those are willing to spend a lot on Lackey then surely those who lose out will take a long look at both Lowe and Kawakami. I myself really don’t expect the Braves to have to eat anything salary wise on Lowe, especially if we’re not trying to get the PTPer with that trade.
I would imagine Lowe would simply be a salary dump just to get involved with Bay or Holliday, while Kawakami may net us something decent in return given his middle of the road contract.
I have another good one to bring up given what Dierkes said on MLBTR…
How about Kelly Johnson to LA for Ramon Troncoso?
Yeah your right about that, but Lowe is a veteran player and its up to Derek not Boris… Derek like’s Atlanta and pretty much signed to finish his career here. He is a total team player as well. If the team came to him with that idea, there might be some consideration. Why??
cause he would be gaining more security with the new deal, yes lower salary a year. but he would realize that by doing that this team would have more funding to be a more competive team. Also if he was thrown back into the starting role and pitched a certain amount of innings/or game started he would gain incentives to boost his salary.
But as things have developed i dont see him doing so considering the Braves are trying to get rid of him , so that idea is just talk, but its a good idea. It makes sense.
October 30th, 200912:58 pm
Lew (October 30th, 2009 11:53 am): “Waybe-Maybe”
You gonna let him get away with calling you that?
(No, he didn’t say “Baby”.)
October 30th, 200912:59 pm
You make a good point about keeping Lowe and dealing Vazquez. Last year JV was the better pitcher, for sure. Lowe had 2 really bad streaks, but otherwise was as good as Vazquez. Over their careers (without doing an exhaustive study, I would say they have been fairly equal. In my way of thinking, there is almost as much of a chance that Lowe would be as good or better than Javy next year, as not.
So, maybe Frank is thinking that JV gets him that bat, whereas dealing Lowe is seen as a salary dump.
JV for Derrek Lee would be an interesting thought.
And if anybody wants to pony up for Kawakami (sorry Random, but Gus has spoken ), then try to improve the outfield mix by dealing him. Would Seattle deal Gutierrez?
October 30th, 20091:04 pm
Yeah, I keep waiting for him to apologize for that one!! Hurt my poor tender feelings badly for shure!
October 30th, 20091:06 pm
Never claimed I could type.
October 30th, 20091:07 pm
I understand why some think Javy pitched his best and is in for a major regression this coming year, but maybe its opposite? Maybe he’s comfortable in Atlanta and loves pitching there?
I don’t know and no one really does, BUT what I do know is that once you get to the playoffs, you can never have too many power pitchers!
That being said, my order of starting pitching trade pieces:
4) Jurrjens (only for Braun and above talent)
5) Hanson (as in would only do it for Longoria type player)
October 30th, 20091:13 pm
RC ive commented on dierks’ MLBTR entries before, telling him he is wrong that the braves dont have a pitching surplus. he cited the red sox as an example of never having to much pitching, which is a totally different situation…the 2009 red sox didnt have two mid 30s starter who have never been on the DL, two of the best under 25 starter in baseball, a 34 year old former 20 game winner over 18months removed from tommy john surgery and kenshin kawakami, SP depth toiling in the bullpen and minor leagues, and about half the red sox payroll.
id like to know why he figures the braves will need a 6th starter for 20+ starts next season.
October 30th, 20091:14 pm
You certainly could be right on Vazquez. Just as equally, I could be right. Hard to tell for sure. Lowe has been a good post season pitcher, if my memory serves me.
One thing is for certain, I think Vazquez gives us a better chance to get the bat we are looking for.
It is going to be interesting to see where all this goes.
Dang I love the hot stove!
October 30th, 20091:17 pm
Lew (October 30th, 2009 12:47 pm): “Calloo, Callay. Aren’t you concerned that re-signing Hudson first weakens Wren’s trade position? Seems to me at that point, other teams would realize he HAD to trade a pitcher and he might not get as much in return, or as good a deal because they felt they had him over a barrell?”
I haven’t looked at it that way so far — you may be right as far as timing goes. Lemme think about it, and get back to you.
In the meantime, lemme say that I’ve been looking at it from a perspective 180 degrees away from yours. By signing Hudson, Wren significantly weakens the SP FA market, which would drive Lowe’s trade value up and up and up, up and away.
Okay — I’m back. No, I don’t think that signing Hudson weakens Wren’s trade position with regard to Lowe. In fact, I think it strengthens it.
Reason being, potential trade partners cannot know for sure which of the Braves’ surplus SPs will actually be traded. Especially if Wren makes the proper convincing feints in opening trade talks with teams for not only Lowe, but also for Vazquez and Kawakami. If Wren played his cards right, he could have teams competing with each other for any one of those three.
For example, team X offer player y for Lowe. Coy and cunning Wren says, “Well, that’s an interesting offer, but team Y has offered me players b & c for Vazquez, which is even more interesting. Can you do anything to improve your offer?” Etc, etc.
So no, I don’t think Wren would be over a barrel ’cause teams would realize (or could be led to think) that he had his choice of two other SPs to trade if he did not get a good enough offer for Lowe.
Your Beamish Boy
October 30th, 20091:20 pm
VaBraveFan… Sure, there can be a lot of variables that determine return for Lowe, either 1 for 1 or in some combination.
I’m not so sure that Lowe would be a salary dump, though, as others suggest. I think some on this blog underrate his value. Yes, he has $45 million left to pay; yes, he’s in his mid 30s. But he’s a near 200 inning guy and won 15 games in the past season.
I think he might well be attractive to some of the clubs with bigger budgets that could always use a reliable arm. I think of the Cubs as a possibility. The Cards, though their budget is more constrained. Maybe the Yankees. They tend to like experience in their rotation.
Now what any of those teams have that would interest Wren is another story.
October 30th, 20091:23 pm
a pitcher can miss as much as 3 starts going on the 15-day DL, but he will usually only miss 2. that means if a 6th pitcher is needed for 20 starts, thats 10 separate 15-day DLs, or 150 days
im not saying all our pitchers will stay completely healthy, but for dierks to say its “likely” for kawakami to be needed for 20+ starts, he is saying its likely that one pitcher will miss almost a full season, or two pitchers will miss almost half the season each, or three of our pitchers will miss a month and a half each, ect.
the statement In all likelihood Kawakami will still be needed for 20+ starts next year. is full of crap.
October 30th, 20091:26 pm
Is there any rule that says that the Braves cannot sign both Gonzales and Soriano and then trade one or the other?
Another thought, why don’t the Braves look for middle-of-the-road offensive, very good defensive 1B, RF, and LF, rather than a masher + Laroche.
With the Braves’ pitching, I like the idea of good OBP players from 1-8, each of whom has either doubles power or 15-20 HR power (or both). I would much prefer that the Braves run a top notch defensive team out there than have a slow masher in LF and a defensive question mark in RF.
October 30th, 20091:28 pm
Once Lackey signs, there will be plenty of offers for Lowe. Wren is just going to be patient.
I wouldn’t trade two pitchers in case of injury.
If we can pry Cruz away from Texas, we will have filled our LF spot on the cheap. That will allow us to resign Gonzo and/or Soriano (although I think Soriano is gone regardless) and sign LaRoche.
My wish list: trade Lowe, sign Javy to an extension, sign LaRoche (3/24-27), trade for Nelson Cruz, resign Gonzo, and trade for Heath Bell. The money should be there, the only question is what would it take to get Cruz and Bell.
October 30th, 20091:31 pm
Bobby told me that if all the starting pitching remains intact and I don’t make the starting rotation, that he could probably count on me for up to 5 spot starts for the year. Bobby also said that the number would be less if there are no injuries and the rain delay makeup games are spread out and don’t turn into doubleheaders.
October 30th, 20091:33 pm
I kinda agree, but some people think that the whole team needs to be replaced if we go in that kind of direction.
If the pithcing has a repeat or even better season next year with a better played defense and small improvements which coaches and players would have to WORK on, this team is easily a playoff team.
We have the potential to have 5 15+ game winners, if we can get a little more run production and a few less blown saves
(22 blown saves in 09)
Lowe had the highest ERA (4.6ish) of the bunch but won the most games
JJ 2.60 awesome only won 13
KK 3.86 only won 9….
comes down to scoring more runs mainly. But improved defense and closing out games makes a huge difference as well.
October 30th, 20091:34 pm
I guess the markets didn’t get the message that the recession is almost over, huh???
October 30th, 20091:35 pm
Wayne and Lew – I was responding to the suggestion Jeff R put out at 10:40 of acquiring and starting Salty as our 1b. I said “Salty would cost more than I would want to pay for him now. David Ross is a perfect backup catcher. Salty is not a starting 1b for a club intending to compete in the playoffs. And Salty would cost us more in prospects than I’m willing to pay for a backup 1b.”
The rest of my posts were responding to follow-up questions.
Why are you so hung up on what happens in the Dodger’s organization??? Are the McCourt’s anything that the Braves need to be concerned about??
We keep seeing photos of the former CEO and frankly I don’t think she is really much to look at. She’s okay. But I guess you have a different opinion about older women… How come you almost never comment on anyone under 60?
October 30th, 20091:36 pm
From ESPN’s rumor page:
Braves oust top scout
The Atlanta Braves have fired Tom Battista amidst a number of changes to the club’s scouting department, ESPN Insider’s Keith Law has learned. Battista served as the club’s regional crosschecker and is responsible for the scouting and signing of right-hander Tommy Hanson. Earlier this month, GM Frank Wren replaced departed scouting director Roy Clark with special assignment scout and former Baltimore Orioles scouting director Tony DeMacio, who turned around and fired one of the most respected an successful scouts in the organization in Battista.
Battista has been instrumental in the Braves’ farm system remaining strong, and also signed right-hander Kris Medlen and first base prospect Freddie Freeman as well as Hanson, who could be named the National League Rookie of the Year next month.
DeMacio’s drafts in Baltimore were hit-and-mostly-miss, boasting Brian Roberts, Nick Markakis and Erik Bedard, but also including Chris Britton, Jim Johnson and Brandon Fahey twice.
Law has more on both Battista and DeMacio.
Battista a gem in his own right
“I can’t imagine Battista will be out of work for long. He’s a well-respected and well-liked scout whose track record of finding value in later rounds is extremely valuable in an era when teams are focusing more resources on the Rule 4 draft. I don’t understand why DeMacio would choose to start his second stint as a scouting director — he was Baltimore’s scouting director from 1999 to 2004, and produced just one average big leaguer (Nick Markakis) with 10 first-round picks) — by terminating a scout who has demonstrated his value so clearly.”
I find this disturbing, not to say ominous. DOB, any info you can add to this would be much appreciated. (At your convenience. Enjoy your offseason — you earned it.)
October 30th, 20091:40 pm
I like your wish list i agree with that looks damn good.
Heath Bell would require trading a couple minor leaguers for him, our system is thin already might not be wise.
Cruz would be aquired by trading one of our Starters depending on who we might have to add a PTBNL or somthing.
Gonzo would be much cheaper than Soriano also Gonzo has more closer experience. They key to the bullpen is not to wear down the good ones, Bobby’s gonna have to mix it up more often. 22 blown saves last year in my opinion is almost as bad as not scoring enough runs.
What do yall think of my idea about Restructuring Lowe contract??? VaBravesFan
I bet Scott Boras is on it right now.
Nobody asked me, but...
Why not restructure Lowe’s contract AND his role. Return him to a closer’s role at $10m/yr over 5 years, exceeding his current $45 m over 3 years in return for less innings pitched over a longer time period. This would free Wren of the need to sign Soriano or another high priced closer and give him the flexibility to pursue a big bat. Remember, Lowe has been very successful as a closer in the past. He would also be helpful as a mentor to our young arms in the pen.
October 30th, 20091:42 pm
Hotspur, that was already reported here about an hour and 10 minutes ago. Sorry bud.
Ok. I will bite. What do you think it takes to get Nelson Cruz from the Rangers?
October 30th, 20091:43 pm
That being said,I still think ERA with a starter is a good indicator of the type of season a starter had. (CB)
you still seem to be missing the distinction between descriptive stats and predictive ones. ERA is a discriptive stat, it says what a pitcvher did and in that context it is a good indicator of how successful he was. It is not a particularly good predictive stat cause it doesn’t tell us why he did well or if he will continue to do that well in the future. There are other stats that do a better job in that regard. It isn’t an either/or ‘thingy’, although both sides often act like it is.
October 30th, 20091:45 pm
You are the voice of reason and clarity in which I place full confidence. (EK)
Steve from OH
Man. I’d really like to know the reasoning behind Battista’s firing, because on the surface it seems like a really dumb move…
October 30th, 20091:46 pm
nobody asked me….why would Lowe want to defer money and only get 5 million total over the final 2 years that you added, thats crazy! Another thing for people who say trade JoJo and Brandon Jones for someone half decent is crazy. Jones is not a big leaguer and neither is JoJo we won’t get shit for either of them…and one last thing we won’t trade for a scrub like Corey Hart or an avg player like Swisher. I’d rather keep 6 starters and move KK to the pen than to trade one for mediocrity.
October 30th, 20091:47 pm
Man. I’d really like to know the reasoning behind Battista’s firing, because on the surface it seems like a really dumb move…
Agreed. But we have no way of knowing all of the circumstances, so it’s impossible to assess it properly. But yes, I would like an explanation as well. Seems dumb.
October 30th, 20091:49 pm
restructure everybodys contract and sign holliday
I don’t like the idea of restructuring Lowe and using him as a closer. I prefer to trade him and have full confidence we can do without paying any of his salary.
I had wanted the Braves to go after Bobby Abreu last year before the made offers to Ken Griffey and Garrett Anderson. He had a really solid year and from the looks of this he should be available again.
He’s definitely someone to consider if Holliday and Bay are ruled out.
THURSDAY, 8:34pm: The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim offered Bobby Abreu a two-year extension worth about $16MM, according to SI.com’s Jon Heyman (via Twitter). Heyman indicates that Abreu is looking for a better offer, coming off an extremely productive season for the Angels.
Abreu, who turns 36 in March, hit .293/.390/.435 with 15 homers and 30 stolen bases in 2009. Last winter, the right fielder signed a one-year deal worth $5MM (plus incentives, which have earned him another $1MM so far), making the Angels’ offer of about $8MM per year a moderate pay raise. However, given the lack of elite hitters on the free agent market this offseason, besides Matt Holliday and Jason Bay, Abreu is clearly banking on receiving more alluring offers.
October 30th, 20091:50 pm
Nobody Asked me but….
I already mentioned somthing like that.
4 yrs 40 million 5th year team option 7.5 million 750K buyout.
Incentives for Games Started/Innings Pitched maxed contact could net him 50 million over 4 yrs if those incentives are all reached each year.
Being a closer will prolong his career and the Option is reasonable for the Braves if Lowe is still effective at the age of 41 to be the closer.
Also helping the team be more competitive by aiding the payroll. Also providing more security for himself and his family.
October 30th, 20091:52 pm
dmack, the Rangers have a stated need for pitching and no inclination to add to their payroll. So they’ll start by wanting Medlen for sure. It won’t stop there. Not familiar with all their needs, so they may want another pitcher and/or position player. But pitching is an immediate need and that’s where Medlen fits the bill for them.
October 30th, 20091:54 pm
why would D-Lowe restructure for 5 mill less and add another year to his contract? He has 45 mill for 3 years, he aint taking 5 mill less for 4
October 30th, 20091:55 pm
Kris Medlen & Brandon Jones for Nelson Cruz. Would Texas make that deal? Would either side have to throw in another low level prospect?
JoJo and Brandon Jones stink and everyone knows that. Why do people think we can get even a bag of peanuts for them?
How much better could the Braves have been with Bobby Abreu instead of Garret Anderson?? I say a lot better. And its so sad that the braves couldnt top a 1 yr 5 million dollar deal….. It rediculous and here comes onother offseason of counting the pennies. If i was the owner and i actually had some baseball knowledge unlike our owner, I would be like wow i could increase our pay roll 2 or 3 million so we can add a guy like Abreu….. 15 homers 30 sb’s 390. OBP defense lil better than Anderson and they only paid 3 million for that that production……
October 30th, 20091:56 pm
Wren should sign Xavier Nady to play 1B. He is cheap, right handed, and had 30 homers 2 years ago. And I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Derek Lowe for Garry Matthews and a prospect. If Matthews plays mediocre baseball, then Heyward could be called up. Would the angels agree to a deal like that????
October 30th, 20091:57 pm
Does Prismacolor not make a freakin’ Navy Blue colored pencil?? Sheesh! Been Googling all over the place and all it comes up with are these freaking markers!
October 30th, 20091:59 pm
The Rangers are looking for a Veteran Pitcher to go along with there young guns they already have. Medlen and Jones would be enough to get someone good from the Pirates lol but not the Rangers cause there smart. Medlen who i like alot would prolly be a main trading piece if it involes any Minor league/low experienced type of guys.
See i think jojo still has promise. He is refining, and rehabbing, this past year. he will be older and more mature when he resurfaces. Bottom line, there are a lot of very effective lefties throwing 90 mph fastballs.
Cliff Lee comes to mind.
October 30th, 20092:00 pm
We need to hang on to our starters for as long as we can and wait for someone on a contenders starting staff go down. It will happen and we will get a huge return. There is no rush to make a move. The economy will prevent alot of big hitters from getting what they think they will get this year. Look what happened to O-Dog and Abreau and Loaf last year. We will get a nice hitter for a Dlowe or KK if we are patient
By the way, the Indians got fleeced by the Phillies. How could they not demand one of Philly’s top prospects in that deal?
October 30th, 20092:02 pm
I’d consider giving him a 3/27 deal. I like his bat as well as the fact that he is an RBI machine and can steal bases.
Um no! We absolutely can NOT trade Medlen!
Lowe is not nor wants to be a closer again…case closed there.
Hopefully all of this is settled before the end of November or all of us will more than likely go insane!
That and I’d imagine Frank would like to see what he’s working with based on the free agents available, what money we have, players to offer arbitration to based on leftover money, and also who he needs to part with (ie Kelly, Ryan, Manny, Boone, etc.)
I would expect things to occur in this order if possible:
-Offer to FA
-Another Trade or two if necessary
i think the mets would talk lowe
October 30th, 20092:03 pm
Deal does make sense for the Angel’s cause they’ll have a open spot from Lackey leaving.
But i Value Lowe way more than Mathews Jr. who makes 23 million over 2 more years. Mathew’s Jr. is a switch hitter and would provide good defense and speed, but he been a bench player for 2 years and his numbers decreased each year, also it wouldnt be dumping as much as we would like. Maybe if its Mathew’s Jr. and a top prospect from the system that might change it some.
Please I beg you, STOP with the Xavier Nady crap!
The guy has never had a great season and has now blown out his elbow TWICE!
He won’t even be ready til July….
YEAH, thats a GREAT idea!
October 30th, 20092:04 pm
No way the Braves trade Double J, “Bank On It!” If we dealt Double J it would be worse than the braves trading Jason Schmidt back in 1996…
We need to be talking about getting Jason Bay Down to the “A” along with Chone Figgins! Them two are on T-Hawkin’s Christmas list this year
maybe we can get Torri Hunter
October 30th, 20092:05 pm
Yes Gary Matthews would be a good choice (Art)
no, Matthews would not be a good choice, and they already gave him away once, they aren’t gonna get him again
I moved from McDonough to Gwinnett County, because I work out there…
I need someone other than me to keep that “Southside on Deck!”…?
October 30th, 20092:08 pm
Church and KJ should be non tendered if they arnt traded, why pay them around 3+ million each if we can use a younger player and get simlar numbers.
We got options for outfield and Church would be a back up.
With McLouth Diaz and New LF in place
Heyward called up Diaz becomes the 4th outfielder
dont forget we still have Jordan Schafer, Gregor Blanco, Brandon Jones, Brain Barton who easily fill a bench spot.
October 30th, 20092:11 pm
I had to repeat this cause it’s rediculous….. i said it by the way..
If i was the owner and i actually had some baseball knowledge unlike our owner, I would be like wow i could increase our pay roll 2 or 3 million so we can add a guy like Abreu….. 15 homers 30 sb’s 390. OBP defense lil better than Anderson and they only paid 3 million more for that that production…… It would have made a good amount of difference.
October 30th, 20092:12 pm
I was reading My old Braves Leaf Studio baseball cards…From 1991-93, and It quotes that David Justice favorite musician was Mariah Carey, and Tom Glavine’s favorite was Phil Collins. You know that is right up my alley along with some old-smooth Aaliyah (Who is very Undrated) and R. Kelly
What do you have to say about that…
Oh yeah throw in some old Keith Sweat, BTW what are you doing for Halloween…?
I’d say you need to dress up in a pink suit and go out to Opera (A Midtown club ) this weekend because it is gonna be off the chain. I’m gonna be dressed up as Tiger Woods…
I like Church platooning with Diaz if Schafer doesn’t step up. I think we can non tender and resign to a lower contract with Church. He fields well, throws well and works deep counts on almost every AB….if only he could stay healthy.
October 30th, 20092:13 pm
Gary Matthews would be a fine choice, if he weren’t owed $23 million ove the next 2 years. He is owed that, however, so unless the Angels eat a huge chunk of his contract he is not worth that.
October 30th, 20092:14 pm
VaBraveFan (October 30th, 2009 12:32 pm): “What if the Braves tryed to restructure Lowe’s contract, instead of it being 3/45 offer him a new 4 yr 40 million deal with a 5th year option, along with incentives if he pitches cetain amoutn of innnings. He will be our closer for 10 mil a year, have the security of a longer deal , with the insurance of getting more moeny if he happens to go back into the rotation, also leaving the Braves more payrool to help the team get better…. If he is a closer he can pitch till he’s 40-42 years old. Kinda of a long shot but doesnt that sound kinda good?”
(October 30th, 2009 12:40 pm): “What do yall think of my idea about Restructuring Lowe contract???”
It wasn’t until I read your 12:56 pm comment that I realized how truly insane your proposal really is.
You’re asking him to work an extra year for less money than he’s currently due to get. That ain’t “More security” — it’s flat out exploitation.
Imagine if you will — me. Say I make $15,000 a year and am eligible to retire in three years. Now say my boss comes to me and says have I got a deal for you. We want you to work four more years, not three, and we’ll pay you $10,000 a year instead of $15,000. And we’ll even throw in an option for you to work yet another year for $7,500. And we’ll give you a couple hundred extra in incentives if you work even harder than you’ve been working and your productivity increases.
That’d be one more year of “security” for me — would you advise me to take that offer? (If you said, yes, you’re fired as my accountant.)
That’d be a bad deal for anybody, whether their salary is in the millions with incentives in the tens of thousands, or their salary is in the tens of thousands with incentives in the hundreds.
Would you really expect Lowe to reason as follows: “Hmmm, I could either work ’til I’m 39 for $45M, or I could work ’til I’m 40 for $40M (with a good chance to work ’til I’m 41 for $47.5M — $2.5m more than my current contract). Hmmmmm, lessee — 40/40, that’s a lucky number! Lemme restructure right now!!! Can I borrow your pen?”
“but its a good idea. It makes sense.”
PS: amended to incorporate your 1:50 pm comment. Btw, I’m not sure, but I’d be willing to bet that a possible $2.5M in options each year is simply unheard of and has never been done or even proposed.
October 30th, 20092:16 pm
nolie, nowhere did I post ERA is a good predictive stat,I stated it is a good stat to show the type of year a starting pitcher had. Don’t try to read between the lines,you might have to get your dinosaur glasses out.
October 30th, 20092:17 pm
Gary Matthews would be a fine choice,
Only if we want to get worse in the OF.
October 30th, 20092:20 pm
DOB – what do you think of the scouting moves? Seems like someone was fired for being a rival for the top post, maybe not for performance?
October 30th, 20092:21 pm
Gary Matthews is living the American dream. Got to grow up around major league clubhouses, was talented enough to get a shot at playing in the majors, had a decent season in Texas, got some really good photos of someone high up in the Angels organization in a compromising position, and cashed in.
Lowe will either come back next year and do well, or will be dealt this winter for some help.
Let’s not try to make things worse than they already are please.
October 30th, 20092:23 pm
Thanks, O.J. Sorry about that. I scanned back through a bit to check, but I guess I didn’t scan back far enough.
Still want to hear DOB’s take, though.
Why is Gary Matthews being Mentioned?
He is among the biggest steroid user-free agent busts of this decade…?
October 30th, 20092:25 pm
Thundersticks (October 30th, 2009 1:28 pm): “My wish list: trade Lowe, sign Javy to an extension, sign LaRoche (3/24-27), trade for Nelson Cruz, resign Gonzo, and trade for Heath Bell. The money should be there, the only question is what would it take to get Cruz and Bell.”
I think I’m just abot 100% on board weith that list, except I don’t know anything about Bell.
October 30th, 20092:26 pm
Thundersticks – since nobody else answered if Texas would accept Kris Medlen & Brandon Jones for Nelson Cruz, no I do not believe they would. It would be a start to a discussion, but I don’t think that has any significant chance of being accepted. It would depend on just how unhappy they were with Cruz, but I still don’t think you give away reasonably proven 30+ homer players for a guy projecting as a 4th starter.
This deal looks a lot like the McLouth deal last year. We gave them someone projecting as a 4th to 5th starter, a top 5-10 in the organization prospect, and a lefty SP single A prospect. I think there’s alot of points and counterpoints that will get to Cruz requiring about the same package.
If anybody thinks I’m wrong about Medlen, I’d like to hear opinions. I think the fact that he’s now projected as a ML starter is way better than he was expected to be a year or two ago. Back then he was seen as middle relief prospect.
October 30th, 20092:28 pm
Whatever man… sick of arguing with you.
Older players do deals like this all the time. If he continues his decline It would be a good move to have accepted the new deal. He is a athlete so when his deal is up he is done….. Will he garner a new contract for 1 or 2 years at the age of 40 not likely…. And this is based on also helping the team…. Kinda like Chipper so i guess that makes Chipper a nut job cause he is throwing millions away to help the team be a contender. Its a fiar deal as well considering how much he would get on the open market which would be less than 15 a year. Also giving him options if he doesnt want to walk away from the game yet. My idea makes plenty of sense. My numbers are just a example …..
If i’m a older accomplished player nearing end of my career, me and my family are already set for life, so the most improtant thing to me would be winning.
Your completly right , if on the other hand you dont care about winning and helping the team, or if your a dumba$$ and squandered all your millions away in your younger days.
Why be so critical? its Just a thought a idea involving Lowe. your getting more upset over this meantioned idea than the idea of JJ being traded away…….
October 30th, 20092:31 pm
ugaacountant, i dont know about medlen projecting as a 4th starter (not disagreeing, i really just dont know), but i dont think texas takes b. jones and medlen for cruz. schafer and medlen might be a little closer…point is they are going to want either a more accomplished starter (KK?) or a better prospect.
Chipper Jones is an Atlanta Braves legend who isn’t represented by Scott Boras. Derek Lowe is a 2nd year Brave who was signed as a free agent who is represented by Scott Boras. Surely you’re able to see the difference between Lowe and Chipper.
October 30th, 20092:33 pm
Random is right. Those sort of renegotiations do not happen.
If the Braves were interested, and I will bet you they are not, then it would have to be something like a redo for 5 years and 60 million, and even at that, it probably wouldn’t work.
Chipper renegotiated his contract back a few years ago, when he was in his early/mid 30’s. And he is a stated Atlanta Brave for life. He is just now getting rewarded for his loyalty and patience.
October 30th, 20092:35 pm
No Biggie Hotspur, it was on page 10
October 30th, 20092:36 pm
The Rangers might take Kawakami for Cruz. I will need to ponder that one a while.
But please, let’s keep “My Little Pony” Medlen.
October 30th, 20092:38 pm
KK for Nellie Cruz…Do It NOW!!!
October 30th, 20092:39 pm
uga acc & thundersticks
Schafer and Medlen for Cruz hmmm. Kinda intriging….
Cruz has had one good year but it was his first full time opportunity. He is 29 y/o has the power and speed. And Cheap for a few years. With McLouth, Heyward , Cruz placed in the outfield Schafer becomes expendable, unless we plan on moving McLouth before his current deal is finished.
It would prolly take them 2 to get it done, but i think the Rangers are looking for a more experieced starter. They already have a good collection of young arms.
October 30th, 20092:40 pm
Yeah, I think Dap’s right. Medlen and Schaefer is close in value to Hernandez and Morton.
OMG, tired of the “My Little Pony” Medlen stuff, sorry if that offends anyone, its just a bit annoying of a nickname or whatever you call it.
October 30th, 20092:43 pm
One thing to keep in mind is that Washington does not get along with Cruz, which is why he is being mentioned in trade rumors. This will slightly decrease the return, but not by much. An inexpensive power bat is valuable.
What about Medlen & Schafer for Cruz? Too much?
October 30th, 20092:45 pm
I understand all that, major contract changes dont happen much, but baised on just that doesnt make it a bad idea for the braves. Everyone wants to get a big bopper but everyone thinks Lowe or KK or or the money we have is gonna get it done and its not. Were gonna be stuck with someone like Willingham. That’s why i brought up the SPEED and CONTRACTS and MENTIONING MOVING JJ before this blog was wrote by DOB. Were gonna have to give up major young talent, Javy Vasquez, or use most/all funds to land the bat everyone wants.
October 30th, 20092:46 pm
“i think the Rangers are looking for a more experieced starter. They already have a good collection of young arms.” -VaBraveFan
Could Texas not flip Medlen to get the veteran SP. I would think most teams looking to trade a veteran SP would want a young one in return. Just a thought.
Andrew in P-tang
Cruz for KK would be the best thing ever..then keep larouce..thats a great team next year.
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