Wren’s plan for Braves: Get better
As we begin typing, the Phillies are two outs from returning to the World Series, this time for a likely Amtrak series against the New York Yankees, who with a win against the Angels on Thursday can wrap up their first AL pennant since 2003 — six years and only a billion or so dollars’ worth of Yankee player salaries ago.
Oh, well, at least I predicted half of the field correctly (I picked Phillies and Angels in my AJC previews last week).
And if a commuter-train series isn’t the Dodgers-Angels Freeway Series that many of us had sort of hoped for, at least it’s not the supremely annoying NY Subway Series we dread (though with the current state of the Mets, I don’t think we need fear a Subway Series soon, unless it’s a Cubs-White Sox version, which wouldn’t be bad).
I’ll get to Martin Prado and why I think he’ll be the opening day second baseman in just a second. (That’s what I’ve thought ever since about late July, when he was one month into thriving as the everyday 2B, and my thoughts were strengthened by something that Frank Wren said to me today. So just keep reading, if you would.)
Jayson Werth just hit his second home run of this game as I started writing, and the Phillies were up 9-3. Thanks for showing up, Dodgers. Oh, and that two-year, $45 million contract the Dodgers gave Manny Ramirez less than eight months ago … that’s sure looking like a sound investment these days, ain’t it?
Hey, Leonard Cohen, at age 75, put everything into a terrific concert we attended last night at the Fox Theatre in Atlanta, a concert that lasted over three hours and ended with one of the great singers of our lifetime skipping joyfully off the stage three times (and returning three times for encores). And Manny can’t run out a grounder in the NLCS, or even stay on the bench to watch his teammates, rather than take a shower during the final outs because he’s no longer in the game?
Leonard Cohen at sold-out Fox Theatre show Tuesday. Manny Ramirez could take lessons in professionalism from the legendary singer.
Anyway, I talked with Wren for a while this afternoon, and asked the Braves GM about the postseason and about the Phillies, and what he thought. I asked him if he thought the Braves were competitive with the Phillies and if he could have envisioned them doing as well in the postseason if they had made it.
(Or something like that. I sort of rambled when I asked him the question, and he probably was on the other end of the phone thinking, is there going to be a question with an end to it anytime soon?)
He replied: “I don’t want to necessarily compare us to any particularl club. We just felt that with our pitching could have allowed us to compete with any club in the playoffs. We had a winning record against all the clubs [in the NL playoffs] except Colorado, which we split against.
“But you also have to be playing well in the postseason, and we felt we were playing well [toward the end of the season].”
For the record, the Bravos were 10-8 against the Phils this season, 4-3 against Los Dodgers, 4-2 against the Cardinales, and 4-4 against the Rockies. If only they had fared as well against a few non-playoff teams, including the Marlins (8-10) and Cincinnati (3-6), not to mention that 10-8 record against the Nationals (yes, same record vs. Nats as Phils).
“We’ve got to continue to improve,” Wren said. “We didn’t quite get there [to the postseason], and so we do we need to continue to do what we’ve got to to get better. We think we have a lot of the ingredients of a playoff team. We just need to continue to add different pieces that will make our club better.”
This was the first time I’d talked to the GM for any length since the Braves finished their four-day organizational meetings last Friday at their spring-training headquarters on the property of an enormous theme park you are probably familiar with outside Orlando.
Wren and his top assistants were there, with the Braves’ seven major league scouts and, of course, manager Bobby Cox, presumably the last organizational meetings he’ll attend as manager (he’s announced he’s retiring as manager after next season, as you know).
“It’s not just talking in the meeting room [during the four days],” Wren said. “Sometimes it’s at dinner, or breakfast, or while we’re watching instructional league games. Guys kick ideas around. It’s really just four-day brainstorming session of how we might put the team together….
“It went very well. We got everything accomplished that we wanted to, as far as talking through every situation, the free agents and how they would fit on our club. We’re prepared, once the free-agent period begins, to start making our calls and getting in the mix for guys we’re interested in.”
Will Braves try to re-sign free agent LaRoche?
Teams have exclusive negotiating rights for a couple of weeks after the World Series to talk terms with their own players who became free agents, after which other teams can jump in.
As you might imagine, Wren did not go into specifics about which players the Braves plan to pursue. But he did agree with me that the Braves have a couple of situations – for example, the Tim Hudson matter, and the status of free agents Adam LaRoche and relievers Rafael Soriano and Mike Gonzalez – that must be addressed before the Braves know exactly what holes they must fill. (I should add, those specific situations are just me thinking aloud, not anything Wren cited.)
When I asked him if he could at least say in general terms what the Braves’ priority needs are this winter, his answer was one that probably won’t surprise any of you: “We’re gonna have to address some needs in our bullpen, and we’d like to improve our offense” he said. “Those are really the two key areas.”
No, he didn’t say which part of the offense, and I don’t know if the Braves are certain about that yet. I mean, if they re-sign LaRoche, they obviously don’t need a first baseman. But if they don’t – and if I had to guess right now, I’d say they won’t – then they need a first baseman, which might end up being the big bat they seek for the middle of their order, or might not.
And if they don’t re-sign either Soriano or Gonzalez, they obviously will need a closer, since there’s no obvious replacement in the organization right now (you should check Peter Moylan’s numbers against lefties if any of you are about to suggest that the Aussie sidearmer is ready for the role. Lefties hit .309 against him with twice as many walks as strikeouts).
I don’t know if the Braves will try to re-sign either, but I’m sure they won’t try to re-sign both. If I had to guess one over the other, I think Gonzalez is more likely to get an offer from them. But that’s just a guess, more than anything else.
Just so you know, Wren and the Braves have no reason to state which, if any, of their free agents they might try to re-sign. And plenty of reason not to say as much. Because as of now, they believe that both relievers are probably going to be Class-A free agents, and LaRoche and OF Garret Anderson could also be classified, probably as Class-B free agents.
In any event, the Braves would get draft picks — two for Class-A free agents, one for Class B’s — from any team that either signs any of their free agents before the Braves declare whether they’re going to offer arbitration, which isn’t until Dec. 1. So why would the Braves say before then what they plan to do with any of the trio? I’ll answer my own question – they probably won’t, not unless it’s to say they’ve signed one or more of them before then.
If they have no intention of signing any one of them, the Braves would want to take it right up to the deadline before saying as much, unless of course LaRoche or Anderson ends up not being classified, in which case there’d be no compensatory pick coming from any team that signed him, and no reason for the Braves to keep their intentions private if they don’t plan to sign them (and with Anderson, it seems fairly certain he’ll be elsewhere). But again, if they think either will be classified, in which case any team that signed them between now and Dec. 1 (unlikely in case of Anderson) would owe the Braves a draft pick if either is a Class-B free agent.
OK, if I didn’t totally confuse you all, we’ll move on. Even if I did, we’ll move on.
Oh, but for the record, here’s what Wren said about Soriano and Gonzalez: “We’re still looking and consider the best way to put it ogether, and they’re included in our thoughts as to how we might best put it together.”
And on LaRoche, when I asked him if they’ve moved on from him: “We’re still considering all the guys that were part of our club last year and factoring in players who might be available this year. We have to be open minded as to how to put it together.”
♣ The Hudson situation: While Wren wouldn’t comment on the situation or even say if negotiations have begun, I talked to a couple of other people who told me the same thing Huddy himself did last week – that talks haven’t begun yet, that that’s not unexpected, and that there is no rush.
No word yet on when Hudson matter could be settled.
The Braves have until three days after the World Series to announce whether they’re picking up his $12 million option (which has a $1 million buyout, should they decline it). And Hudson has five days after that to accept or decline the option (if he declines, they don’t have to pay him the buyout).
But I’ve heard nothing from either party to lead me to believe that Hudson and the Braves won’t try to work out a multi-year extension with a salary below $12 million, and probably below $10 million (if it’s not below that, I’m not sure that the Braves would be willing to do such a deal).
As you probably know, Hudson reiterated last week that he’s willing to take less money from the Braves – a “hometown discount” – than he could get from other teams, but he just hoped what he and the Braves thought was a reasonable hometown discount are not too far apart.
Hang on, folks. We could get some actual news on this before much longer. I talked to Huddy’s agent today, and he seemed anything but concerned. He said he’s known and negotiated with Wren for a long time, and he expected they’d sit down before too long and “roll up their sleeves” and get to work on this.
♣ The Prado situation: As promised, I wanted to share something I heard today from Wren that, to me at least, seemed to support the belief that Prado is the incumbent and clear frontrunner to be the second baseman when the 2010 season begins.
“I think we watched Martin Prado become our everyday second baseman in the second half,” Wren said, “and I think that going into spring training, there’s no reason to think anything’s changed.”
Prado hit .307 with 38 doubles, 11 homers, a .358 OBP and .464 slugging percentage in 450 at-bats in 2009, the first season in which the erstwhile utility man was used as a lineup regular. In 239 at-bats as a second baseman, he hit .331 with 31 extra-base hits (nine homers) and a .914 OPS (.378 OBP, .536 slugging).
Kelly Johnson, the Braves’ opening-day second baseman the past two seasons, hit just .224 with 31 extra-base hits (eight homers), a .303 OBP and .389 slugging percentage in 303 at-bats this season, down sharply from his 2008 numbers.
In 284 at-bats as a 2B in 2009, he hit .215 with a .666 OPS (.286 OBP, .377 slugging).
Johnson lost 2B job to Prado at midseason.
Johnson was struggling when Prado had a four-hit game on June 30. Cox said that night that Prado would be in the lineup for the time being, that he was too hot to sit.
Johnson was sent to Triple-A to work on his swing after resting a sore wrist. He never reclaimed his starting job and was used as a backup when he returned to the majors a month later.
From opening day through June 29, Johnson hit .216 with a .288 OBP and .362 slugging percentage in 66 games (232 at-bats). From June 30 through the end of the season, Prado hit .318 with a .363 OBP and .478 slugging percentage in 78 games (318 at-bats).
For his career, Prado has a .307 average and .811 OPS (.360 OBP) in 779 at-bats, including a .285 average and .834 OPS in 309 at-bats against lefties and a .321 average and .894 OPS in 470 at-bats against righties.
Johnson has a .264 career average and .776 OPS (.346 OBP) in 1,661 at-bats, including a .299 average and .808 OPS in 462 at-bats against lefties and a .251 average and .765 OPS in 1,199 at-bats against righties.
OK, I know – stat overload. But hey, just wanted to give you plenty of numbers and not just a half season or one season worth to compare.
And why all the discussion about Prado and Johnson to begin with? Well, if you recall, the day after the season ended, Cox mentioned something about the possibility of Prado moving to right field, where he’d played some during winter ball, and how the Braves couldn’t just “give up” on Kelly despite his disappointing season, citing his strong 2008 season.
Personally, I took that comment made to a few of us reporters as little more than Cox being supportive or protective of a player (Johnson) he’s always stood by, rather than an option (Prado in RF) that was being seriously discussed by the Braves.
To me, it just seemed that everyone I’ve talked to in the organization since summer, players and coaches and front-office officials alike, all believed Prado made the most of his first real opportunity, and did just about everything he could do to keep the job.
Unless something unexpected comes up this winter, some sort of opportunity for the Braves to make themselves better by moving Prado, I don’t see really see how he would go to spring training penciled in as anything but the Braves’ starting second baseman.
“He earned the playing time he got,” Wren said, “and right now I don’t think anything in that regard is going to change.”
♣ This is the thanks DeWayne Wise gets? In case you missed it – and I don’t know why you wouldn’t have missed it unless you live in Chicago – former Braves outfielder Dewayne Wise dropped from the White Sox’ 40-man roster this week and opted for free agency rather than a minor-league contract.
This is the same Wise who made the catch of the year in baseball, going over the wall to rob a home run and preserve Mark Buehrle’s July 23 perfect game
OK, so he pretty much stunk otherwise. And actually, it’s no surprise at all that the White Sox would drop him from their 40-man, like the Braves did recently with Buddy Carlyle and Jorge Campillo. You can’t use valuable 40-man roster spots on well-traveled guys in their 30s who haven’t produced for whatever reason, even if it’s injury (Campillo is recovering from shoulder surgery). There’s no DL in the offseason, so guys have to be put on the 40-man or outrighted, in which case they can opt for free agency if they have the service time.
Wise, 31, hit .225 with two home runs and 11 RBIs in 84 games with the Sox. He was the Sox’s Opening Day center fielder but missed two months after separating his shoulder April 13 at Detroit.
So we’re not surprised he got taken off their 40-man. This note was just our way of referencing a one-time Brave who was a good guy. And that catch, which was sublime.
Sort of like that Leonard Cohen concert. And the second season of Sons of Anarchy. Or the most recent episodes of Mad Men. And the new Coen Brothers film, A Serious Man.
And this classic from Graham Parker:
“THREE MARTINI LUNCH” by Graham Parker
I live near Hollywood out in the Canyon
It’s a good life if you’re winnin’, it’s a killer if you’re not
My wife up and left last night, couldn’t stand another fight
The studio boss fired me, my future’s been shot by…
The three martini lunch
Things will get better soon, I got a hunch
The three martini lunch, wasting another afternoon
Punching a hole in my life
I came from the backwoods, my prospects seemed real good
For actor or director the future looked bright
But I ran in with a bad crowd and since then it’s just been down
Alone in the canyon my only companion…
The three martini lunch
Things will get better soon, I got a hunch
The three martini lunch, wasting another afternoon
Punching a hole in my life
I know what they’re saying yeah, I’ll never get back again
I pushed my luck this time and I’m on the skids
But I know what I’m doing I just can’t stop doing it
Me and my companion, hell bent to ruin it…
The three martini lunch
Things will get better soon, I got a hunch
The three martini lunch, wasting another afternoon
Punching a hole in my life
Wasting another afternoon
Punching a hole in my life
Wasting another afternoon
Punching a hole in my life
2,586 comments Add your comment
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
2:10 am
Seriously?
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
2:13 am
After further reading, I found out the ghost “Mr. George Drews” is a fantastic guy, and truly dedicated to the theater and to his students…
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
2:18 am
This is the thanks DeWayne Wise gets? In case you missed it – and I don’t know why you wouldn’t have missed it unless you live in Chicago
So he deserves a contract for making a catch?
Andrew
October 22nd, 2009
2:19 am
man DOB thanks for the 2 am blog,love it
Nebraskabrave
October 22nd, 2009
2:19 am
Couldn’t resist the temptation of possibly being first.
Andrew
October 22nd, 2009
2:34 am
i cant understand the hudson thing..DOB if they work out a deal its automatic that we have to trade javy,lowe,or kawakami right? lowe would be most likely i think but javy would get the bat we need..then if we dont sign larouche we have a hole at first..unless we get a first basemen for javy…but then there is that powerless outfield…what are the chances jason heyward is on the opening day roster next year?
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
2:39 am
This blog dedicated to Bay Area Steve, uga-brave and the rest of the regular night-owl denizens.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
2:46 am
Man, JJ4CY, I didn’t like you pimpin’ your blog, continuously. But, you stopped, and I appreciate it. But, I don’t know if I can forgive this.
Sarcasm, dude. Always look for the sarcasm. Do you really think the guy is D’Wise’s mom, or som’n'?
Blog dedicated to the late-shift; my life is now complete. I believe I’ll have a drink.
nolie
October 22nd, 2009
2:50 am
Blog dedicated to the late-shift; my life is now complete. I believe I’ll have a drink (BAS)
At least you got a mention. I was completely ignored, and by a former KISS fan too. Oh the humanity.
I think I will retire to my vibrating bed and cry myself to sleep. Nite
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
2:51 am
Fire Homer.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
2:53 am
You’re the man, nolie.
Always good for a laugh. I think you’re not just a late-shifter. You’re good, all day, every day. Dude was just throwin’ us drunks (or those in Hawaii and Japan) a bone.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
2:56 am
I wonder if I could get 60+ posts on this page… Hmmm, does this make me:
a) bored
b) alone
c) an idiot
d) drunk
e) all of the above
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
2:59 am
No, BAS, it makes you:
f) ambitious!
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:03 am
I know I’m a year late, but Traitor was a solid movie.
For a subject that’s been beat to death more than DAP and Mike Cameron: better than good. My girl didn’t think as much, but she was wrong. She’d probably make me watch that Bravo stuff y’all were talkin’ about, anyway, so screw her.
Don Cheadle’s a good actor, huh? Who knew? (I hope this doesn’t start a Braveheart/Daniel Day-Lewis rant.)
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:07 am
I knew I liked that PWH dude…
Ambitious, I like it. Although, now I feel compelled to actually get 60 on this page.
Can you believe, this frickin’ blog actually told me, the other day, that I was posting too frequently, and that I needed to slow down? C’mon Wordpress, it’s me. If I post, it’s necessary. I’d never post worthless drivel. I’m not a scoots, or a nolie, or a Braveheart, or a DOB.
Anywho, I’m gonna be somebody. F’ 60. I’m stayin’ up for 70 on this page.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:09 am
Ok, in hindsight, 70 ain’t gonna happen; I temporarily forgot how lazy I was. But, #8, baby; 50%.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:11 am
World series predictions?
I’ll go Yankees in 5. Sabathia takes game 1. Burnett lays an egg in game 2. Pettitte shuts down the Phillies in game 3. Sabathia takes game 4. The Phillies give up after that.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:13 am
Any of you pitch f/x cats know if D’Lowe’s velocity is down? I don’t watch much ball ‘cept the Braves, so I’d not seen much of the dude. I’m just concerned, ’cause it seemed like his sinker was sinkin’, but the results… Saw a lot of 89, with lazy movement. Anyone know if that sinker used to have the same movement, but was at 91, and a bit sharper. I suspect, with a sinker, a coupla feet difference can be a difference-maker.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
3:14 am
I can’t sleep, then I see that DOB has a new blog up….nice
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:17 am
I predict the Braves aren’t in the WS.
How can you sit there and watch the post-season? All I can see is teams the Braves beat heads-up, yet our boys are home again. Screw it; I’m watching hockey. I’m in frickin’ San Jose. How do I even know what hockey is. C’mon Braves, I need October ball.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:17 am
Go to sleep, jd. I’m shootin’ for 70 here.
Coherent thoughts are not needed. Step away.
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
3:17 am
San Fran Steve,
Ummm…. WHAT?
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:18 am
What else can I ramble about?
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:20 am
Ummm, JJ, thought I was clear.
Your post indicates you thought ‘OB was supporting D’Wise. Yet, his blog clearly states otherwise. Thought I’d say som’n’.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:23 am
I don’t like the “Recent Posts” thing over on the right. I mean, I used to. But now, I no longer want to see:
•Next hurdle: Josh Johnson
•It’s the Marlins…and it’s serious
•Braves winning and watching scoreboard
•Braves still in running with 10 to go
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:24 am
BAS,
WRT D-Lowe’s velocity, yes and no. He averaged 88.6 MPH on the fastball this year. His career average is 88.4, so he was up from that, but he averaged 89.2 in 2008, 89.2 in 2007, and 88.8 in 2006. What concerned me more than the velocity was the fact that at times, the pitch seemed to tail more than sink. It looked like he was getting more lateral movement than vertical. Which ain’t good for a guy who relies on the sinker.
However, the real secret to good Derek Lowe is the curveball/slider (he calls it a curveball and grips/throws it like a curveball, everyone else seems to think it’s a slider, calls it a slider, and it charts as a slider). In 2008, his best year in recent memory, the slider was 29.0 runs above average. This year? 10 runs below average.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but I do find it interesting that his K rate declined while his slider/curveball fell off the map.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
3:24 am
My bad BAS….back to bed
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:26 am
Wayne, to answer your question from the other night:
I actually looked up, and posted, dude’s address the night he went rumbletard. I was seriously considering knocking on his door.
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
3:30 am
Josh Johnson won’t be playing for the Marlins next year, although, the Fish are a big threat, THEY NEVER DIE!
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:31 am
Interesting stuff, PWH. The movement of the sinker (tail/sink) doesn’t worry me as much long-term. That’s gotta be fixable, and for a guy who works as hard as he does, I’ll work on the assumption that he can, and will, fix it.
I suppose the same could be said about his slider-movement. But, it never occured to me that that’s where part of the problem lies. I’ve only seen his slider (at least, enough for me to judge) this year, and seemed acceptable enough. You have velocity numbers there? And, how ’bout sinker numbers for above/below average? Thanks for the info.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:35 am
Man, this whiskey is conspiring to ruin my blog-domination. Am I close to 70 yet?
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:38 am
Slider velocity is right at the career average (81.6 this year, 81.5 career average), but last year when it was so effective, he averaged 82.9 mph with it.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:38 am
Holy Cornelia, PWH, I tried lookin’ at the site you linked, just as I’ve tried before. There’s a lot goin’ on there. Would you please dumb it down for a lesser mind, such as my own? Tell me, can D’Lowe be better next year? And, where do I look for improvement?
I think we have to assume he’s on the squad, at least another year. Prolly less than 5% dude is traded.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:40 am
I agree with you on the sinker movement thing, that seems like it can be fixed easier than most problems. In fact, he experimented with at least two (maybe more) grips this year for his sinker. Maybe it’s as simple as going to a different grip, applying a bit more pressure here, shifting a finger a few millimeters that way, etc..
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
3:44 am
Don’t you have class tomorrow Peter?
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:46 am
Oh, and PWH, I’m not listening to you; you don’t even remember Kenny Lofton. Is that the player dude was giving you a hard time about?
‘Twas sad to read, really. Clearly Preacher Roe was a regular, and a knowledgeable one at that. A shame he was bein’ an ass. I don’t care if someone is 25 months old, if they can show me something…
Anyways, just sayin’, screw him, and keep doin’ what you do.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:46 am
Yeah, I think he’ll be better next year. Lowe was 2nd in the league in BABIP last year, which has a lot to do with defense and bad luck. The Braves’ defense was rather crappy, but especially so when Lowe pitched. He also led the league in hits allowed. I expect the defense to be better next year with no Loaf, Schafer/Heyward getting some playing time, Escobar getting his head screwed on correctly, Chipper regressing to the mean, etc.. It ain’t all defense, Lowe’s line drive % was up, his strikeouts were down, his walks were up, among other things. I expect both the things Lowe controls (defense independent pitching stats) and the things he can’t control (BABIP) to get better next year. He’s due for a solid rebound and there’s no reason he can’t be a legit #2 starter.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:48 am
JJ, did I answer your 3:17?
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:51 am
Jurrjens4NLCY,
Nope!
At the beginning of the semester I was signed up for too many classes so I could decide which one to drop. I had lectures 9-1 on MWF and labs from ~8-2 on Tuesday and Thursday. I walked into the Monday 12:00-1:00 lecture and it was a physics class. The first thing the professor does is write an extremely complex differential equation on the board, I hardly even understood the equation even knowing what all of the involved variables meant. He says, “This is our new F=MA. F=MA works for most things, except when the mass is extremely small or extremely large, so we’re using this now”. I didn’t stay long enough for him to finish writing down the 2nd equation. Dropped that sucker. It was one of the two lab classes and that lab met on Thursday, so no class on Thursday for me this semester.
Mitchie-san
October 22nd, 2009
3:55 am
Nice to see nolie, BAS, P. W. Hjort and the other late night crewmembers get a shout out!
(me being pne of the “others”)
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
3:55 am
And, where in the heck is You Know Who?
Dude shows up, stirs the pot a bit, promises a return…
10, we love ya, let us know you’re still the man.
I don’t think I can express how much respect I have for an athlete who said what he said this season. No doubt, he rebounds, and if he doesn’t, I don’t care. C’Jones is the one left. Was never my favorite Brave. I was a Murphy, Benedict, Smoltz, Javy Lopez, Andruw guy. But, outside of one incident, dude is the Braves. Have a year, 10.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
4:06 am
Man, how good was Andruw Jones?
I truly think dude deserves HOF votes. Prolly, as nolie described, an emotional vote, instead if a logical one. But, I can’t believe anybody, ever, played as good a CF as that guy. Maybe, I’m wrong; Mays? Maybe goin’ back further… But 12 years of the best CF in the game (Edmonds can suck it, Griffey fell off), and way, way, way above-average stick?
I’ll forever miss ‘Druw in CF.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
4:09 am
Chipper rebounds no doubt. JC Bradbury blogs it well.
He was such a beast in 2008. Because the Braves were so bad that season, I think it gets lost just how GD amazing that season was for Chipper Jones. How incredible was that season? He hit only 22 HR, but managed to slug .574(!). He only struck out 61 times in 128 games! He won a batting title. I don’t know, you can get lucky and win a batting title, but this wasn’t just a “luck” batting title. Dude was hitting .400 on June 18. That’s nearly half a season of hitting .400. He posted a .470 OBP. The last NL hitter to do that was of course Barry Bonds (in 2004 when his OBP was over .600, I think he’s the greatest hitter ever). No NL hitter has put up a .470 OBP this decade except Barry Bonds (who did it from 2001-2004) and Chipper Jones in 2008.
That wasn’t just a good season, that was a f’n historic season. A season for the ages. And if it weren’t for a few injuries to the pitching staff, some bad luck in 1-run games, and Francoeur sucking a left nut and being an insufferable jerk, people would remember that season as one of the greatest seasons for a hitter and not the season that the Braves were so terrible.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
4:10 am
I’d “like” to “take a moment” to mention how “feeble-minded” I find Paul Lentz’ “contributions” here.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
4:15 am
Oh yeah, and the last time a NL hitter other than Chipper Jones or Barry Bonds posted a .470 OBP? Mark McGwire, 1998. He shattered the HR record with 70 that year and was intentionally walked 28 times for fear of the HR. And the years Bonds did it? He hit 73 (2001), 46 (2002), 45 (2003), and 45 (2004) HR’s. And he was intentionally passed, get this, 35 (2001), 68 (2002), 61 (2003), and 120 (2004) (one hundred and twenty freaking intentional walks!) times. Chipper Jones did it hitting 22 HR’s and intentionally walked 16 times. Like Poz notes, Chipper’s brilliance sometimes gets lost because of the era we play and played in, the era of huge power numbers. Chipper did everything he did without the roids, just pure hitting ability.
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
4:17 am
Steve,
Yes you did, thanks
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
4:26 am
Take away Bonds’ intentional walks and the only season he has an OBP over .470 was 2001. .471
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
4:28 am
Pete,
Sweet!
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
4:32 am
And the last time a NL hitter other than Chipper, Bonds, or McGwire had an OBP over .470? 1935. Arky Vaughan – .491. Before that? Hornsby in ‘28, ‘25, and ‘24. And since 1901, that’s the list of players with OBP of .470 or greater. Chipper, Bonds, McGwire, Vaughan, and Hornsby.
Samuel Stiles
October 22nd, 2009
4:42 am
Keep up the good work DOB! Been reading all year. Always a late nighter as well.
Loved “a serious man”! Great film. Headed to my hometown next weekend to parlay in the festivities of voodoo/ new orleans. Should be great, the lineup is quite stellar.
WE WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR! However, it’s pretty great to be a saints fan these days.
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
4:43 am
Watching my shows…. SO HILARIOUS!
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
4:47 am
Nine times a NL player has posted an OBP of .470 or more. Three times by a roided out Bonds getting intentionally walked 35 times or more, once by a similarly roided out Mark McGwire, once by a 23 year old whiz kid who led the league in everything, three times by Rogers Hornsby, the greatest 2B of all time, 1st ballot hall of famer, and a living legend. And once by Chipper Jones in 2008.
The Braves were bad in 2008. And that’s what everyone remembers. How miserable it was to watch that team. I don’t blame them. The injuries and terrible fortunes in 1-run games was extremely frustrating. But we lose something when we do that, and that’s just how amazing of a season Chipper Jones had. When you step back and look at Chipper’s 2008, it wasn’t just a good season, or a MVP-caliber season, or a HOF caliber season, it was a historic season. Probably one of the greatest NL seasons of all time, I’d say. And that’s what we should remember 2008 for. A first ballot hall of famer turning in one of the finest seasons we’ve ever seen. Perhaps at an inopportune time, but nonetheless, a season for the ages.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
4:55 am
I meant 10 times and 4 times by bonds.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
5:08 am
Ya know what I hate: that I can’t trust 10.
Dude’s given us no reason to doubt him; certainly no proof exists. But, I can’t make myself exclude Bonds and McGwire, while accepting Chipper. The use was (and perhaps is) so widespread that I can’t assume 10 didn’t use. I hate that.
Albert Pujols is incredible, but I can’t assume he didn’t use. People I respect here have accused him, and where before I would’ve stood behind the guy…
And, what I hate even more, is that I can’t fully believe 10′ll rebound. Dude is old, in ‘ball years. I hope he comes back, just like I hope with D’Lowe, but, at some point, players’ abilities decline. Now, as a homer, both’ll be their old selves. Count on it.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
5:09 am
Oh, I also hate Paul Lentz.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
5:10 am
I also hate that whiskey is bad for you.
Bay Area Steve
October 22nd, 2009
5:13 am
Finally, I hate that all of you have conspired to dissuade me from pursuing my 70-posts-on-the-front-page goal.
They f’ you at the drive-through.
Ok, I know that doesn’t apply, but I like it. And, it’s true: they f’ you at the drive-through.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
5:13 am
I gotta agree with you on both subjects, BAS. After all, how do we know Chipper didn’t roid? Of course, I’m virtually amoral with regards to things of the sort and I don’t really care if players used roids or not. I sort of assume mostly everyone did, because it was so widespread, to the point that I don’t really care. Bill James made a good argument with regards to the roids. I’d post it here but it’s subscription only. Worth the $3 just for the article, if you ask me.
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
5:30 am
After all, how do we know Chipper didn’t roid?
Because he strains his oblique by the slightest movements…
Jay212033
October 22nd, 2009
5:31 am
DOB, Wren and company was down in Orlando this past weekend watching the players in instructs, were their any players that stood out to them, that they mentioned by name?
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 22nd, 2009
5:31 am
Bill James made a good argument with regards to the roids.
Was it that everyone was using steroids so it didn’t matter?
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
5:39 am
Was it that everyone was using steroids so it didn’t matter?
No. It was 5 different arguments as to why HOF voters wouldn’t hold it against players for using steroids in 20 years. They were all excellent.
berrygin
October 22nd, 2009
5:45 am
I knew BAS would wimp out and not get to 70!
Dean
October 22nd, 2009
6:26 am
The Braves simply won’t compete next year with their off-season plans as they are. Anyone who honestly looks at this Philly team, whether they are playing hot or cold, has to admit that the Braves are a far cry from overcoming them. And, remember, next year they will have a full year of Cliff Lee. And, not only does that give them more wins, but I think in the long run it bolsters Hamels. And, of course, the offense, well what can you say – it’s very very good even when it’s a little slow.
So, don’t tell me stuff like the Braves are looking to improve their offense. That’s just dumb. The only way to be legitimate is to Overhaul the offense. It’s gonna take at least 2 big bats. And, anyone that doesn’t call Wren on this is a fool.
Niedermeyer
October 22nd, 2009
6:55 am
Dean Wormer has spoken, you’re all worthless and weak. Now drop and give me twenty!
Bellboy
October 22nd, 2009
7:30 am
“I know what I’m doin’….I just can’t stop doin’ it” is perhaps my favorite line from any song. I believe Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I am a Met fan, but it works for any team, and frankly any situation.
O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
7:55 am
The way the Phillies are dominating in the playoffs should make it clear to Frank Wren just how far our offense has to go. Sure, we have good pitching, but the Dodgers had one of the best bullpens all year. how did that turn out?
And let’s not forget, the Phills will have Cliff Lee and JA Happ next year, plus maybe Cole Hamels returns to form. The Braves need offense.
DOB raised an interesting point. The Braves could let LaRoche go, and sign/trade for a big bat to play 1B. But who would be available?
I cant wait for the offseason.
Nativebird
October 22nd, 2009
8:03 am
Going into offseason LAST YEAR everyone and their brother knew this team needed two things, Starting Pitching and a Big right handed RBI Bat. Well, one dissapointing ‘almost-made-it-again’ season later and a bunch of useless press, talking, yapping about former-should-be-retired-over-40-Braves-starters (and their attitudes)-nonsense, plus more ink and nonsense spilled about other HAS BEENS like Griffey and Garrett Anderson, all the while maintaining their “big bat first basement” Casey Kotchman will do the necessary job (PULEEASE), this organization continues to MIS-fire on the things it needs to do.
ALL STAR MONEY needs to be paid to get ALL STAR talent…and that is the simple uncomplicated truth Mr. Wren. If Liberty doesnt have it for you, then there’s NO Band-aid available that will fit your problem.
the Last two (realistic) World Series chance teams in Atlanta had ONE thing in common; a big-time, big-bat ALL STAR quality first basemen: Fred Mcgriff, and the Big Cat Gallaraga.
Unti THAT is fixed, keep making excuses sir, it won’t matter. and it aint Adam LaRoche version 3.0!
Preston Hannatized
October 22nd, 2009
8:04 am
Quick thoughts — go for O-Dog to play 2B/OF. He fell out of favor in LA. He can still play and he gives the Braves some much needed “diversity.” The AJC editors will love that. Let Huddy walk – good guy, fine 14 win pitcher, post-season bust back to his Oakland days. Keep Laroche if possible. What’s Soriano’s story, DOB? Some stretches he’s unhittable. He doesn’t fit the “image” for the button-downed Schuerholtz/McGuirk types — so, he’s out, I guess. The Red Sox have any interest in Escobar?
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
8:20 am
I heard that Kelly is going to be a daddy soon. I wish I knew if the mom was PW, Steve, or Wayne. Guess I’ll have to watch Maury to find out.
Ouch.
(For the record, I think it’s scoots…)
toga party
October 22nd, 2009
8:22 am
Thanks for the new blog DOB. Great reading. I find Wren’s comments about Prado to be slightly more re-assuring than Bobby’s.
And a well-intentioned golf clap for Bay Area Steve’s whiskey-assisted 27 posts on the front page. Nice effort. Well short of 60, but a nice effort nonetheless.
stew
October 22nd, 2009
8:25 am
Bay Area Steve said something I totally agree with. Andruw was the greatest centerfielder I ever saw bar none including the Say Hey Kid (Willie). Andruw just doesn’t get his props. He was light years better than punch and judy Joe D.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
8:36 am
Here’s my concern about not pursuing LaRoche for a re-up, even if it’s a three-year contract.
Talk during the season was that the Bravos needed a righty power bat to add to the mix. The mix included LaRoche.
Adding a power bat without LaRoche means another hole in the offense, unless management can come up with a free agent who can satisfactorily fill LaRoche’s shoes.
If I’ve followed the thinking correctly, replacing LaRoche with a big bat doesn’t entirely address the whole need for more offensive power. So, wouldn’t Wren have two power bats to add?
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
8:38 am
“Adding a power bat without LaRoche means another hole in the offense, unless management can come up with a free agent who can satisfactorily fill LaRoche’s shoes.”
I should say “a free agent or a 1B acquired in a trade who can satisfactorily fill LaRoche’s shoes.”
Kashi
October 22nd, 2009
8:38 am
With our current offense and position player, we won’t be able to bet resurgent Mets and Marlins. Shall I throw in Nationals too? We are looking at rock bottom next year if Huddy, LaRoche is gone. Huddy is most likely to sign with Nationals or Mets.
bravofan
October 22nd, 2009
8:45 am
The Phils are like the new yankees I hate em!
raleighbravefan
October 22nd, 2009
8:53 am
stew – I’m guessing if you saw Willie Mays, it was only near/at the end of his career. Andruw, at his best, was close but not equal to Mays. He never came close on offense.
Rock On......
October 22nd, 2009
9:18 am
DOB….thanks for the awesome blog. One of your best ( I mean among many good ones). Great to hear about Prado’s position on the team from Wren. Based on the assertion from Wren that Prado is the “everyday 2nd baseman” then I have to assume that we will not see Prado as a utility guy. re: 3rd/1st baseman replacement. It is always tough to get consistent offensive production from a super utility type player. Better to focus in on one position and do it well.
Not sure I am reading Wren between the lines correctly but that was my first take.
Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
October 22nd, 2009
9:20 am
DOB,
Great Blog. Especially like the way it ended.
On Prado: It seems to me that he might be the best option in the leadoff spot. Does anyone agree? I mean, we may go out and get a leadoff-type guy in the offseason. I really hope they focus on adding power, though. Looks to me like we have an adequate leadoff hitter penciled in at 2B (or RF if we don’t “give up on Kelly”).
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
9:26 am
Prado deserves Wren’s vote of confidence. Initially, given the bias for Johnson, Prado made the team the only way possible: as a utility player. He was always starter material, and he took advantage of his opportunity and worked hard to prove himself. The guy has grit.
NEW CARS
October 22nd, 2009
9:27 am
Is there a chance that we could make a blockbuster. I wouldn’t want to give up Juurjens, but if we could get a Ryan Braun in return, would it be worth it. Barring that, it would be nice to catch lightning in a bottle with someone like Connor Jackson. I would be satisfied if we had Laroche and a strong rh bat in leftfield. I like McLouth, but if we have to trade him and put Jordan in cf, I would be okay with that. A pipe dream I had was trading D Lowe straight up for D Lee. He’s a gold glove first baseman and had a big season. Would you trade Lowe for Vernon Wells, if they evened out the contracts. I think that dude is a player who needs a new address. If he cost the same as Derek Lowe, with another year or two added, I would take a flyer on him. I’m excited with the options we have this year as compared to a year ago, when we had holes everywhere. We didn’t lose many of our bargaining chips either, just Tyler Flowers and Charlie Morton. With Laroche at 1b, a real stick in lf and Heyward in rf, and please help us, no Norton on the bench, I believe we can compete with the Phils.
I don’t believe any of our free agents are going to get offered in November, so I would be willing to offer arbitration to Soriano, gonzalez and Laroche…I would think that a least one of the relievers would pass it up to sign somewhere else and there are teams that would take them..
Rock On......
October 22nd, 2009
9:27 am
Jeff R…..great point on LaRoche at 8:36. Truth is that LaRoche was probably auditioning for a job the last half of the year. Not sure the Braves will bite on 3 years but I do believe that LaRoche is in the aforementioned mix otherwise, based on LaRoche’s numbers, they would need two more bats. This is in addition to Heyward in RF should that come to be.
PMC
October 22nd, 2009
9:31 am
Let’s see. Phillies are better at every single position have virtually no holes in thier line up they added Cliff Lee and thier bullpen is good enough. MVP’s from Short to 1st. A really good third baseman…. yeah sorry I don’t see it for the Braves for a while. Let’s hope for 90 wins and a wild card birth.
The best player on the team is 3 steps from retirement. We have no outfielders. We don’t steal bases, we have no power… the lineup was riddled with holes and those holes were inserted daily. The only really solid thing about this team is starting pitching.
Vaya con Dios senior Wren… you’re going to need a heck of a lot of luck.
Rock On......
October 22nd, 2009
9:32 am
NEW CARS….my man, where the hell have you been? I voted you as the funniest post of the year. You are the blog’s sargeant-at-arms.
Don
October 22nd, 2009
9:47 am
Braves efforts to “get better” are hampered by several significant factors asider from what trades, acquisitiosn, signings etc are possible.
The most significant thing is that Bobby Cox is back with his incompetent management procedures and lack thereof. It is unbelievable that someone could manage for over 20 years and not understand the necessity of teaching/ emphasizing/ demanding making the opposing pitcher throw some pitches/ working the count/ being selective – which has multiple advantages. His failure to do this guarantees that the Braves run production will be inconsistant. Watching the Phils hitters work the count/ be patient and selective is like daylight from dark compared to Cox teams. And this does not even mention all of his continuous management blunders in so many other ways.
Also, the Braves are already in the hole as far as making their salary budget work to have a good team – with a hunge chunk of the total budget already obligated for the next 3 years to a player who is already just a “part time” player and is also a poor defensive 3rd baseman who apparently no longer a very good hitter – even when he is able to play.
With Bobby Cox managing, the only chance the Braves have is if their Pitching schould be so far far superior to the other teams that it makes it impossible to lose over the long 162 game regular season – and overcomes Cox’s incompetence as a manager.
Wrens efforts to build a winning team are almost impossible when his hands are tied by having to keep Cox as manager.
Rock On......
October 22nd, 2009
9:50 am
Again last night Torre is asleep at the wheel. Give him credit for pitching around Howard but then with two outs and an open base Padilla falls behind Werth 3-0. It screams for an intentional walk to bring up Ibanez (regardless if it loaded the bases). Nope, Padilla throws all fastballs to try and get the K and one didn’t return. When you are playing a superior team on their home field you can’t have a manager go brain-dead. Probably wouldn’t have mattered anyway but Joe Torre was severely out managed in this series.
macdwolfpack
October 22nd, 2009
9:53 am
I’m hoping but not sure that Wren realized if they don’t resign LaRoche then they have a need for two big bats to sign or trade for in this lineup. If you are one big bat away from competing and you add one and lose one, you are still one big bat away from competing.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
9:54 am
Rock On…… That’s what I thought. I’m not sure way Wren wouldn’t bite on a reasonable three-year deal for LaRoche. At this point, Freeman isn’t being fast-tracked, so he may not be in Atlanta until 2012, depending on how he performs.
Even if Freeman starts to light the world on fire, and management wants to bring him up, say for 2011, Wren could likely move LaRoche. Got to believe LaRoche’s value would be pretty good. Don’t you?
Mid Town Joe
October 22nd, 2009
10:03 am
That Jason Werth is some studd! I was trying to place the current Braves in last night’s scenario, and it just didn’t play out, especially with our fan base. They sure have the total package in Philly, and they’ll be tough to overtake next season. I’ll be rooting for them in the WS.
Philly Braves Fan
October 22nd, 2009
10:03 am
I hope Wren makes some solid moves so we can send Bobby out with a bang
Rock On......
October 22nd, 2009
10:03 am
Don….I think most on here would agree Cox is not a great tactition and his best skill set is in personnel. Chipper is what he is but only a year removed from the NL batting title. He is not a defensive whiz but then again never has been really. We have far greater needs than trying to replace Chipper (although I think the Braves will get a player via trade that will handle some utility duties if Chipper is out).
As for your pitching thought, yes, I feel the Braves are superior to every team in SP 1-5(assuming they don’t do something stupid like trade Vazquez) and their top 3 can compete with anyone. Firm up the closer position, sign LaRoche, Heyward being ready, and a big RH bat for LF and you have a world series caliber team no doubt. Can the Braves/Wren accomplish that? We’ll find out soon enough.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
10:03 am
pwhjort great info last night. i love how the more you pick apart chipper jones’ numbers, the more impressive it gets. i read an article recently talking about players in the history of the game that have managed a career .300/.400/.500 line. there arent many, and chipper is one of them.
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
10:09 am
at least it’s not the supremely annoying NY Subway Series we dread (though with the current state of the Mets, I don’t think we need fear a Subway Series soon, unless it’s a Cubs-White Sox version, which wouldn’t be bad). (DOB)
Why don’t you worry about filling one ballpark in your fair city and leave the subway series issues to the big boys. {:
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
10:11 am
frank robinson
the way this team is made up right now, i think mclouth is a good leadoff guy. i would definitely stick with him unless the braves get a guy who is perfect for the leadoff spot, which isnt likely, since we are after a power hitter, and schafer aint ready.
ill also agree that i dont see how wren could pass up laroche, unless he has a plan to get fielder or gonzalez.
O.J.
October 22nd, 2009
10:13 am
I wonder how many free agents the Braves will not sign to long term contracts due to the fact that they know Bobby is going to be here only 1 more year. That might have been a selling point before, but now they know he will be gone, so not so much a selling point anymore.
Rock On......
October 22nd, 2009
10:14 am
Jeff R….hard to say if LaRoche would have any value at all if they brought up Freeman in 2011 and they gave LaRoche a 3-year deal and had to trade him to make room for Freeman.
Andruw had a tremendous run but it took him only two years or less to fall off the planet. Could happen with LaRoche. Who knows. Will LaRoche take a two year deal from Atlanta as opposed to three? Probably if the money is right but Atlanta may find a trade partner to bring in a 1st baseman that can work for two years until Freeman is ready.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
10:14 am
Rock On…… “…Cox is not a great tactition and his best skill set is in personnel.”
Exactly.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:16 am
Oooh, I like this waking up to a new blog thing. Thanks, DOB.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
10:16 am
i am one who believes the braves are on the edge of being the best team in the NL. that includes the phillies. we have offensive issues, but we have several very good offensive player and a dominant pitching rotation. wren is right…keep the bullpen strong, and improve the offense, and we could be really good. if the braves could find a way to land jason bay, and keep the rest of the team intact for the most part, they would be a very dangerous team.
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
10:16 am
Speaking of the Mets (DOB brought them up not me), I guess you guys heard that not only didn’t the Wilpons lose any money to Madoff but apparently they made $50 mil! Well that was a surprising turn of events. Sounds like the economy is coming around after all.
Now where is that FA bin again?
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:17 am
Ready for your 2010 Bill James projections? Here they are!
Yunel: .302/.381/.432
Heyward: .303/.371/.465
Infante: .278/.331/.392
KJ: .274/.354/.445
Chipper: .296/.408/.496
Roachy: 271/.348/.485
B-Mac: .291/.362/.511
Nate-Dawg: .263/.348/.349
Prado: .303/.357/.430
Schafer: .239/.339/.376
Bay: .268/374/.504
Holliday: .316/.391/.531 (Think Boras has already got this one?)
Ordonez: .311/.376/.476
Gonzo: 3.12 ERA
Hanson: 3.30
Hudson: 3.64
JJ: 3.69
Lowe: 4.06
Meds: 3.60
Moylan: 3.58
EOF: 4.20
MFIKY: 2.39
Vazquez: 3.60
I’ve missed a few, but that’s just tough tomatoes.
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
10:20 am
Oooh, I like this waking up to a new blog thing. Thanks, DOB. (Soph)
Uhmm, never mind. Don’t want to get banned.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
10:21 am
ooo, steve….thats pretty bad for mclouth.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
10:21 am
Almost hate to say this, but I’m pulling for the Phils over the Yanks, assuming the Yanks don’t collapse againt the Angels. Never could stand the Yankees.
Anders can correct me if I’m wrong, but NYC and Philly as cities can’t stand each other. There’s going to be a lot of dishing going on between Yankee and Phils’ fans.
Regardless, I do think the Phillies are the better team. I like their pitching more than the Yanks. Might give an edge to the Yankees’ offense, but not by much.
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
10:22 am
Enter your comments here
Mid Town Joe
October 22nd, 2009
10:24 am
Anders
This Steve Phillips thing doesn’t make too much sense to me, especially with his latest vixen. Didn’t he have similar tendencies while the Mets GM?
Daslied
October 22nd, 2009
10:24 am
PWH – enjoyed the Chipper/OBP posts last night. Good stuff.
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
10:27 am
Mid Town Joe- Yep, Phillips was dipping his pen in the company ink. I’ve vaguely heard about him being in trouble again but I didn’t follow up on it. What happened this time?
Rock On......
October 22nd, 2009
10:28 am
Phillies/Yanks should go 7 games. It will be Lee vs. CC in games 1,4,7. Should be interesting.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
10:29 am
DAP made a point earlier that’s worth noting: Bravos are on the verge of being one of the best teams in the NL. I’ve got to agree, as long as Wren makes the right moves this winter.
I’m assuming that the Bravos’ starting pitching will be as good, or nearly as good, as this season. Bullpen needs to be addressed, for certain. And, of course, the team needs more punch.
But, having said all that, as DOB pointed out, the Braves played right up there with the NL post season teams, except the Rockies.
Mid Town Joe
October 22nd, 2009
10:31 am
Anders (and all):
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/10/21/2009-10-21_steve_phillips_espn_analyst_and_former_mets_general_manager_rocked_by_affair_gon.html
Daslied
October 22nd, 2009
10:33 am
Steve – thanks for the Bill James stuff. Pretty bold prediction for Heyward/Haywood/Haysbert.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:35 am
Mixxo Guess y’all understand my mancrush for Victorino now huh? Guy’s a player…..and a crusher.
Yeah, he’s a “crusher” all right…dirty, rotten crusher…
I know talent.
Sure ya do…
BAS Tech can’t be that great; McFann’s daddy went there.
Something just doesn’t sound right about that sentence…
Oh, and Soph, how could you!
Yeah, you know what I’m talking about…
Hey, I laid it on the line about Mauer, but the Reaper? No way, no how. Don’t like that little…reaper…
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:35 am
Daslied–was thinking the same thing…
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
10:35 am
Jeff R- I hate Philadelphia fans in general. I find them to be the most vulgar in almost all their sports. That’s not to say there aren’t good ones too and that NY doesn’t have their share of idiots – it’s just that Philly as a whole seems to relish in being known as so over the top nasty.
That said, I’d rather the Phillies win than the Yanks. I want Girardi to get canned some day never having achieved his stated goal of reaching Yankee Championship #27 for which he chose his jersey number. Just more self serving Yankee arrogance imo. I’ve been telling you guys since I got here, I hate the Yanks and their bought and paid for superiority with all my being, then there’s everything else.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
10:36 am
jeff r, the good thing is that the biggest, hardest to get piece is in place, which is the great starting rotation. and i really think that it wouldnt take much to make this offense a very dangerous one. there are things the braves do well on offense, namely hit for average and get on base. a big time slg% player, a guy who slugs over .500 would be ideal.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:36 am
Steve B-Mac: .291/.362/.511
I’ll take it! Does that include 40+ doubles??
Jonathon
October 22nd, 2009
10:38 am
The free agent crop at 1B is sooooo weak. If they want someone other than LaRoche, it’s probably through a trade. Honestly, are any of these guys worth it, even for a season (or two) before Freeman is ready?
Rich Aurilia (38)
Jeff Bailey (31)
Wilson Betemit (28)
Hank Blalock (29)
Russell Branyan (34)
Miguel Cairo (36)
Frank Catalanotto (36)
Tony Clark (38)
Carlos Delgado (38) – Type B
Nomar Garciaparra (36)
Ross Gload (34) – $2.6MM club option
Eric Hinske (32)
Nick Johnson (31) – Type B
Adam LaRoche (30) – Type B
Doug Mientkiewicz (36)
Kevin Millar (38)
Fernando Tatis (35) – Type B
Chad Tracy (30) – $7MM option with a $1MM buyout
Daryle Ward (35)
Dmitri Young (36)
Maybe Hank Blalock, maybe. But even that’s a stretch. And he’d want more than a 1 or 2 year deal. DeRosa’s not on this list, but he’s a 1B option, but he doesn’t offer much power.
Would Jim Thome be serviceable enough to play 1B for a year? He’ll be 39 next season.
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:41 am
McFann–41 doubles and 24 homers!
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
10:42 am
jonathan, branyan would be a better choice than blalock, for sure. and thome wont play 1st. the told torre that when he got traded to the dodgers. he said only in an emergency situation would he play 1st base.
i agree with you, it needs to be laroche, or wren needs to trade for prince fielder or adrian gonzalez.
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
10:43 am
Mid Town Joe – Phillips has to be a moron. He dodged the same major bullet some years back so he goes back for more? With a 22 year old? Sounds like a serial cheater. Oh well, look for him to be GM’ing in the Independent league or something for a decade to try and rebuild his career.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:44 am
How ’bout the Braves do a trade with the Marlins for Cantu? Then he cann hit 4th, BMac 5th, and instead of the “Killer Bees” we’ll have the “Cann-Doers”!
Wow…OK, that one even hurt to type…
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
10:44 am
Anders… I’ve got a good buddy from Long Island. Mets fan to the core. Rooted for the Bravos when they squared off against the Yanks in the 90s.
Philly fans can be the nastiest in the world. They eat their own!
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
10:44 am
McFann–41 doubles and 24 homers! (Steve from Ohio)
Was he traded to the Phils? {:
Daslied
October 22nd, 2009
10:46 am
Jonathon – Wren could sign, like, 10 of those guys to platoon, and Bobby could match them against pitchers they hit the best.
Why do I keep thinking that Rich Aurilia is 52?
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:46 am
41 doubles and 24 homers? OK! Or how ’bout 43 doubles and 22 homers?
How many RBI come with that?
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
10:46 am
DAP… you’re right about the Bravos’ starting pitching. Just hope Wren can lock down the bullpen.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:47 am
Anders–
Don’t ever…no. NEVER even KID about such a thing! Do you understand me? Just don’t even go there…
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:48 am
Besides, he hit 42 doubles and 23 homers in ‘08; same total, different combination…
Grizzled Veteran
October 22nd, 2009
10:48 am
Don’t post often but am a long time reader of the blog. I’ve got a story you all may find interesting – and applicable to the Braves getting better. After the 1965 season (told you I was a grizzled veteran), the Pittsburgh Pirates and their manager, Harry, “The Hat” Walker made a trade with the Giants for outfielder Mateo (Matty) Alou. Alou was a left handed hitter generously listed at 5′9″ 160 lbs. but who took a big swing with an even bigger bat and fancied himself a power hitter like his taller brothers, Felipe and Jesus. His big swing had gotten him to the majors five years earlier, but he had always been only a part time player and had hit only .231 the year before.
Walker, however, needed a lead-off hitter and asked Alou to come to his (Walker’s) home in Leeds, Alabama that off-season to try to talk Alou into changing his swing. Matty didn’t like the idea, but Harry persisted and managed to get Matty to go out ot the batting cage in the Walker’s back yard to work on a “two-strike swing”. Harry pointed out that Matty had hit less than .200 with two strikes and that this was a way he could improve his average without really sacrificing power.
Harry was a former batting champion and a superb teacher. He showed Matty how to get his weight off his back foot and slap the ball to left field. Within only a couple of days, Matty had a new “two-strike” swing that worked very well. The next spring Matty was doing so well with his new swing that Harry wanted him to use it full time (Harry’ original intention), but Matty resisted, still insisting he could be a power hitter. To make a long story short, they ended up compromising. Matty would still use his old swing with no strikes and then go to his new swing.
Walker put him in center field and in the lead-off spot in the order, (Matty really preferred hitting fifth or sixth.)and tried to get him to bunt at least twice a week. What happened? Well, Alou hit .342 in 1966 and led the league in hitting, beating out his brother, Felipe and his teammate, Roberto Clemente. And even though he continued to be a .300 hitter for several more years, he never abandoned his old, no-strike swing.
The moral of the story, boys and girls, (at least for those of you with the patience and attention span to read this far) is that the Braves already have a young, undersized, power hitting, lead-off man center fielder who would really prefer to hit in the middle of the order. It just seems to this old-timer that both McLouth and the Braves would be better served if there was someone (Harry died a few years ago.) who could teach McLouth a pared down swing that he could use with two strikes and maybe against left-handed pitching. (And also someone to teach him how to be a better bunter.)
The thing is, McLouth has several advantages over Matty. First, he really does have good power and would need to used a smaller swing only with two strikes. Also, he is faster than Matty ever was, has a better idea of the strike zone, and is just a better natural hitter, in my opinion. So, who could both sell McLouth on the idea and also have the skill to teach a shorter swing? How about Brett Butler? He knew how to do it – he was a good lead-off man for a long time. Maybe there is someone better. But are the Braves and McLouth even interested in trying?
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
10:48 am
jorge cantu would be a downgrade both offensively and defensively at first base.
Jonathon
October 22nd, 2009
10:50 am
didn’t we have branyan a couple years ago? i don’t remember it working very well. i think he played outfield, however, and struck out, like, all the time.
Daslied
October 22nd, 2009
10:50 am
I hate Utley, Victorino, Werth, Hamels, Lidge and Eyre.
I hate Teixeira (now), A-Rod, Swisher, Cabrera, Jeter, Posado, Pettite, Joba and John Sterling.
Sigh. Go Phils. Unless Girardi decides to rest his starters. That’d be a good move, Joe.
Ben
October 22nd, 2009
10:51 am
Xavier Nady might be a good stop gap solution at 1B. He’s a free agent and could come cheap on a 1 year contract.
Bobby
October 22nd, 2009
10:55 am
Steve from Ohio-Thanks for James’ predictions. Heyward surprises me to the upside, McLouth to the downside. I am not surprised to see Kelly with an OPS higher than Prado.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:57 am
DAP–
Yeah…I was…kidding…
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:58 am
Uhmm, never mind. Don’t want to get banned.
Thanks, Anders. I knew someone would misinterpret what I said. You win.
Winterville
October 22nd, 2009
10:59 am
I don’t know if anyone posted this yesterday but Matt Diaz did a live chat for ESPN and his fans yesterday. Here is the link.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/29012/braves-of-matt-diaz
Keith B
October 22nd, 2009
11:00 am
TMI. Good God, TMI.
I hope you don’t talk like you write.
You could have said what needed to be said in about 5 short paragraphs. Instead, you went on and on and on and on and on and on and on. Good God.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
11:00 am
Grizzled Veteran… Good points about Matty Alou. But I’m not sure if McLouth can or would make the changes.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:01 am
Oh, and Soph, how could you! Yeah, you know what I’m talking about…
But, McFannnnnn – I said I don’t like him when he plays us. That has to count for something, right? You can’t be too mad at me. I defended B-Mac last night when Mixxo made some snooty remark about his Lasik re-do. I de-friended him Monday through Saturday and everything.
CB
October 22nd, 2009
11:01 am
Grizzled Veteran, I loved your story.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
11:01 am
Steve I’ve missed a few, but that’s just tough tomatoes.
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
11:01 am
Nolie, see Bay Area Steve’s 2:53 a.m.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
11:02 am
jonathandidn’t we have branyan a couple years ago?
nope. and yeah, he Ks alot, (not that much more than laroche) but still puts up a pretty good OPS, so it doesnt matter.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
11:04 am
Soph You can’t be too mad at me.
I’m not…
I defended B-Mac last night when Mixxo made some snooty remark about his Lasik re-do.
Good job! How’d I miss that? Was that on the last Blog? I’ll have to look for it…
I de-friended him Monday through Saturday and everything.
Yeah, but hoe ’bout now?
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
11:04 am
I think the difference between Yankee fans and Philly fans is that Yankee fans are arrogant and Philly fans are nasty, as I mentioned previously. I prefer nasty to arrogant – if having to make a choice.
You’ve got to believe that Yankee fans are already assuming their boys are world champs… just need to go through the formality playing the Phils in the series.
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
11:06 am
Samuel Stiles: I’m envious of you going to N.O. for the Voodoo Fest. That lineup is insanely good and eclectic.
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
11:07 am
Grizzled Veteran – You Matty Alou piece sounds like the Frenchy story from last off season – without the happy ending.
Well, at least until Hojo got a hold of Frenchy. Hey, maybe McLouth should give Hojo a call? {:
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
11:07 am
Jeff R — well said (11:04) about difference ‘tween Yanks and Phils fans.
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
11:08 am
DAP: Yes, Braves had Branyan … in spring training. Didn’t make team. He was sent to minors late in 2004 spring training, then — get this — traded to Cleveland for a player to be named later a month later, on April 25, 2004.
The PTBN? Uh, Scott Sturkie.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
11:08 am
OK, I found it, Soph. I know why I missed it–Two reasons: It didn’t mention BMac by name, and I tune out certain bloggers when they aren’t mentioning BMac “by name” (and even sometimes when he [they] is [are])…
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
11:09 am
Hate it when the “…” goes on the last line all by itself like that…
Keith B
October 22nd, 2009
11:11 am
Infante – 2B
Diaz – OF
Prado – 3B
Escobar – SS
LaRoche – 1B
McCann – C
McLouth – OF
??? – OF
JJ, Vasquez, Hanson, Hudson, Kawakami
Let em go: Choker, Lowe, Soriano, Johnson, Church, Norton, Anderson). Free up about $30 mil (?) per year. Buy power and some speed.
Bobby needs to get real and move Jones from the #3 spot. The dude hits .230 the last 70 percent of the season and Cox is waiting for what, a turnaround, the last month? Bobby, the object is to WIN, not to reward a future HOF with your loyalty at the expense of the team (and the Braves organization) or the fans. Quit managing the entire season like its still spring training. Quit picking your nose. Examples: Leaving Lowe in until 8 hits in one inning. Batting Moylan (his first career at bat) during a critical time during 7th inning: then, take him out PRIOR to pitching in the 8th. Telling us all how ‘you know what you’re doing’ in pitching to Howard (Phils), after he’d gone yard 6 games in a row. You really knew how to pitch to him. He homered yet the next two games, making it 8 straight.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:12 am
Good job! How’d I miss that? Was that on the last Blog? I’ll have to look for it…
It was on the last blog. He made a joke about how he got a procedure done the second time around and how he was going to be better now. It was sometime last evening – maybe page 24 or 25. Not funny, Mixxo!
Yeah, but hoe ’bout now?
lol did you call me a hoe?
Well, today’s Thursday so technically not on speaking terms with him. Only when the Falcons play since he loves his Yankees so much.
Bad Scooter
October 22nd, 2009
11:13 am
I feel that not re-signing LaRoche would be a big mistake. Sure, he probably would want more than a 2 year deal, and the Braves might not be willing to do that. But we have a legitimate 30 homer, terrific defender at 1B who wants to come back and play in Atlanta. Freeman may not be ready in 2 years. How much better were the Braves last year with LaRoche? They were a completely different team. He changed that lineup, making it pretty solid 1-8. Let’s get real- there are only a few better slugging first basemen who can pick it over there in the majors- probably just Pujols and D. Lee. Wren needs to get this deal done. Stick with Matty D. in right, maybe Schafer in center and McLouth in left. I think this should be priority number one this winter.
CB
October 22nd, 2009
11:13 am
You guys are getting excited about Bill James predictions for 2010- ok,the C officially stands for Carnac in the future.
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
11:13 am
You’ve got to believe that Yankee fans are already assuming their boys are world champs… just need to go through the formality playing the Phils in the series. (Jeff R0
Not so much anymore. Yankee fans are definetly feeling more comfortable than they have in the last 5 or so years but they have underlying doubts. They believe if their boys play like they can they have the horses to beat the Phils but they aren’t 100 % positive this group of guys can deliver like the late 90’s when all they did was throw their gloves on the field and collect their trophies. Plus they’re worried about Girardi mucking this whole thing up. Especially in an NL park. There’s arrogance in the air but it’s a quiet arrogance. It will splatter everywhere should they win the WS however. Been a while for the Bronx lovers.
Jonathon
October 22nd, 2009
11:16 am
We did have him. According to Baseball Reference, he signed as a FA with Atlanta in Feb. 04, but was traded to the Indians on April 25, 2004. He was then traded to the Brewers in July ‘04. I think he spent his time with the Braves’ franchise in Richmond. Maybe I just remember him from spring training games or something.
Jonathon
October 22nd, 2009
11:19 am
Thanks, DOB. I love that Branyan’s nickname is 3TO, as in “three total outcomes.” Because he either walks, strikes out, or hits a homer.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
11:21 am
I believe Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I am a Met fan,
Well that explains it.
Hey Steve, you will pass out cigars though, right?
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
11:21 am
DOBDAP: Yes, Braves had Branyan … in spring training.
didnt know that. i stand corrected.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
11:22 am
Anders… I see… Do hope the Phils beat the Bronx bombers. I always love the way NYC media goes into full crisis/attack mode when the Yanks fail to live up to expectations. Think Girardi survives if the Yanks blow it?
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
11:24 am
Soph–
Yeah, I saw it…
Lame lam lame…don’t even know what he’s talking about, but lame lame lame…
And, haha, no…that was s’posed to say “how”…sorry ’bout that.
Well, today’s Thursday so technically not on speaking terms with him.
Today’s brighter than the nighttime, so technically I’m not on speaking terms with him, either.
(Just playing around a little, Mixxo. But you can’t very well say you “know talent” when you choose to trash BMac any chance you get, no cann you?)
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
11:25 am
“NOW cann you”! Dangit! Pushed “submit” too soon…
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
11:27 am
JeffR – First of all I’m hoping the Angels come back and beat the Yanks. That aside, I really don’t know who wins the Phils/Yanks Series? Playing in those two parks with those lineups has to really take it’s toll on pitching staffs. We could be in for a HR record breaking WS. Pop ups go out of both parks.
Yes, Girardi is back next year regardless. Especially if he gets them to the WS. Remember the Yankee brass has this whole Torre thing that went down. You know they didn’t want him getting to the series before Girardi. They dodged that embarassing bullet this year.
Grizzled Veteran
October 22nd, 2009
11:30 am
Jeff R: “not sure if McLouth can or would do that”
It has been my observation that most people will do what they perceive to be is in their best interest. Is this in McLouth’s best interest? I believe it would be. How much value is there in a lead-off man who can hit .300 with an OBP of, say, .370 and hit 20 homers. (I think he could also steal 35 bases if he determined to do so.) What he needs is someone to convince him that he could do it and then could also show him how.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
11:30 am
Anders… Dodgered it, they did!
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
11:34 am
Again last night Torre is asleep at the wheel.
Meh. The Dodgers just aren’t nearly as good as the Phillies. The Dodgers aren’t even as good as the Braves. They got in the playoffs based on their April May and June play, they haven’t looked like a playoff team since before the all star break. Thems the perks of playing in the NL West.
I hope the Yankees win it in 4, mostly because it will get Anders goat. What an ass.
bruce
October 22nd, 2009
11:41 am
Dave,
Do you think there is anything to the timing of the roster moves on Buddy and Jorge? For instance are two roster spots needed in next few days? or why several others were not given similar fate at this point? for example, Barbaro (is his glove really that bad?, sure saw him smacking at the plate a couple of years ago in Richmond) and Norton. Any thoughts on timing? Thanks, Bruce
Anders
October 22nd, 2009
11:43 am
I hope the Yankees win it in 4, mostly because it will get Anders goat. What an ass (RHR)
Did I miss something? I don’t recall having a fallout with you? Or is that just your general assessment of me?
rammerjammer
October 22nd, 2009
11:44 am
Grizzled Veteran,
Thanks for your thought-provoking posts. I looked at McLouth’s minor league history and he WAS the guy you’re saying he could be. Batting average around .300, lots of stolen bases and occasional homers. His 20 HRs this season were more than his last three combined seasons in the minors, for example. But his batting average in those minors years were .300, .322 and .297, with a high OBP, too. Really, a classic leadoff hitter.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
11:45 am
Grizzled Veteran… Sounds good. Wouldn’t mind having a leadoff hitter with pop and higher base-stealing potential. Hope McLouth and management consider making adjustments.
About Steve Phillips...
October 22nd, 2009
11:47 am
When I read that he had an affair with a 22 year old intern named Brooke, well, lets just say the mental image I conjured was miles from the truth. Yikes.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
11:48 am
Howdy, Bruce! What’s happenin’? Hope all is well!
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
11:48 am
No Anders, I don’t recall a fall out either, but your assy comment about filling our own park just rubbed me the wrong way this morning. I’m sure I’ll get over it.
bruce
October 22nd, 2009
11:50 am
Jeff R. —
regarding your preferring nasty to arrogant…
Friendly question and perspective request: is your experience based on being at games in Philly and NY or from general fan interaction? My take on the Nasty meter: Philly fans should be part of the definition (and football folks say Eagles much worse than Phillies) and cause “city of brotherly love” to be removed from their name even if it has to go back to the original Greek, which I think is where it comes from, not anything anyone in Philly has done.
I have not experienced Yankee stadium more than once or twice and it was not against the braves, but Yankee fan arrogance seems to me to be a bit knocked down by their past few years failures and Joe Torre’s success in LA.
Your insights would have to be profound for me to change from rooting for any team but Philly which is where I have been since Braves were out of the wildcard. ( I realize this is not your objective, nor do you even need to respond, but more about my personal experience of philly fans when attending braves games in philly,) thanks, Bruce
Jake W.
October 22nd, 2009
11:50 am
I think the Dodgers question mark all season was their starting pitching. All their pitching though seemed to make the fatal mistake when it comes to playing the Phils and thats walking people. In the first game they loss I can’t remember how many they walked, Kuroda just didn’t have it in the other. Broxton walking Stairs(the phillies equivalent of Norton) and even Padilla walked Utley and Howard before the Werth homerun. They are going to hit homeruns, just try to make them solo homeruns. In the only game they won they gave up a solo shot to Howard I believe.
I think the yanks would be a good matchup for the Phils because their hitters can be just as patient and we all know where the phils weakness is. If they can consistently get in that philly bullpen I like the Yanks chances to win it. If they follow the same formula as the dodgers the Phils have the edge.
Jeff R
October 22nd, 2009
12:10 pm
Bruce… I think Anders did a good job of addressing the Yanks’ fans arrogance factor. He concurs that given their knock-downs, Yankee fans aren’t as visibly arrogant as years past.
Philly, I’ve spent time there on business. Philly sports fans are take-no-prisoners types, in my estimation. They have no hesitancy riding their players if they think it’s deserving. But they are loyal to their teams.
Now DC is another animal. I lived there and still go there regularly on business. Forget the Nats (not even on fans’ radar there yet). Redskin fans sort of reflect the city. Love them when they’re winning and turn on or abandon them when they’re losing (just like politicians). Granted, that’s painting with a broad brush; they are certainly die-hard ’skins fans, but, generally, my experience is with the fickle fans up there.
Oooo… Braves rumors!
October 22nd, 2009
12:12 pm
[...] takes this David O’Brien blog post, where he talks to Braves GM Frank Wren, and lists the “hot [...]
MitchC
October 22nd, 2009
12:16 pm
Dave, the loss of Laroche is going to hurt, big time. Think of how poor this team’s offense will be without him. Mccann is our only true offensive threat otherwise, because Chipper wont play more than maybe 120 games a year.
If it were me, I’d let Hudson go, if it meant saving the money to sign Laroche. If FW resigns Hudson, he’s going to have to trade a starting pitcher anyway to do so, so, why not just let Hudson go, save the 9 to 11 mil or what ever it is, and use the money to re sign Adam.
Our rotation, even without Hudson isnt bad. We still have.
Hanson,
Vazquez,
Jair
Lowe
KK or someone else.
I’m not sure we are going to be able to trade Lowe or KK anyway, so why keep a 34 year old starting pitcher coming off TJ surgery, when we so clearly need offense? This team will suffer far more without Laroche, then we will without Hudson.
I know that there’s the Freddie Freeman matter to take into account, and that he’s supposed to be ready in either 2011 or 2012. We need a power hitter at first base, considering our other power deficinies. We already saw what a disaster Casey Kotchman was at first before we got Laroche back.
Also, if we end up letting both Gonzo and Sori walk, we need to get a power closer. I dont like the idea of submarine man Moylan closing games. A team is best having a guy who throws 90 plus to dominate the ninth inning.
I’ll be very interested to see what Frank does.
keylargo
October 22nd, 2009
12:18 pm
Xavier Nady might be a good stop gap solution at 1B. He’s a free agent and could come cheap on a 1 year contract. Ben
Two things are wrong with your proposal:
1. He has played 4 innings at 1B in the last three years.
2. He is on the 60 day DL with the Yankees having undergone Tommy John surgery 7/10/09
You are correct though that he can be signed cheap.
Nova Scotia Steve
October 22nd, 2009
12:22 pm
So I read on mlbtraderumors that Theo Epstein believes JD Drew is worth a tick above $14 Million a season.
Is he serious??
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
12:27 pm
Bruce, I wouldn’t read much into timing of removing that trio from 40-man. If you look at it, those are three guys who because of age and/or injury, weren’t going to be traded for anything of value. So why keep them on roster any longer? Maybe they just startedtrimming with the obvious ones. In the case of Canizares, since you mentioned him, who knows if some team out there might have interest? Or Braves might at least want to protect him until last minute they can before possibly using that roster spot for someone else. He’s not as old as the three pitchers who were released, and he put up big numbers. I’m not suggesting he’s going to play for the Braves, just saying he could have some value to them or other teams.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
12:33 pm
Steve,
Thanks for the projections.
The Bill James thing is a misnomer, really. He has nothing to do with the projections other than slapping his name on them, throwing them in his handbook, and making a lot of money off of them.
I asked Bill about his projections one time (I think he had Tim Hudson pitching like 150+ innings last year). He responded, “I don’t have anything to do with those projections”. Fair enough.
They’re still good stuff, though.
And Francoeur’s projection?
.276/.318/.437.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
12:40 pm
Daslied -
Thanks.
atlwolf
October 22nd, 2009
12:42 pm
If the Bankees win the Series, this will have been a sad year indeed for baseball.
Shaun
October 22nd, 2009
12:42 pm
So I read on mlbtraderumors that Theo Epstein believes JD Drew is worth a tick above $14 Million a season.
According to FanGraphs.com, Drew was worth $20.7M in 2009 and $18.6M in 2008. This is based on the going rate for wins in free agency those years.
TnBrian
October 22nd, 2009
12:42 pm
And you think you’re mad that Atlanta might not resign LaRoche, imagine how Chipper feels? Ouch, I think I just heard him swaller his dip.
Shaun
October 22nd, 2009
12:44 pm
If the Bankees win the Series, this will have been a sad year indeed for baseball.
Really? Why? Because they spent a lot of money? I’m almost certain teams have spent a lot of money and won the World Series before and I don’t know that those years were sad.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
12:49 pm
Ouch, I think I just heard him swaller his dip.
HAHA.
rammerjammer
October 22nd, 2009
12:52 pm
Unless I’m misinterpreting DOB’s remarks, it looks like Frank will sign a free-agent first baseman to a one-year contract with Freeman penciled in for 2011. Dang, that kid must be good.
P-Town Brave
October 22nd, 2009
12:59 pm
Hmm…what about going for some combination of Dye, Abreu, and Heyward and then having one of the 3 work out at 1b. If its Heyward, it would simply be like the Justice situation when he first came up, basically warming the position while allowing the team to get another bat into the lineup until the permanent move to RF.
Yes I realize its more logical to ask Dye to play 1b…and yes, I know that weakens the defense with those 3, BUT getting those bats in the lineup could make a whole lot of difference (see Howard and Ibanez) AND it couldn’t be any worse than those mentioning Dan Uggla for 1b or LF.
O.J.
October 22nd, 2009
1:02 pm
There are so many ways Frank Wren could do this. He could:
Sign or trade for a power hitting second baseman, move Martin to first until Freeman arrives, then to 3rd when Chipper retires.
he could keep Martin at 2nd, get a 1st baseman for a year then move him to 3rd when Chipper retires
Man, too many ways he could go, i cant think of them all.
atlwolf
October 22nd, 2009
1:02 pm
Just my opinion, bub. Don’t get all defensive.
Atlanta Flowers
October 22nd, 2009
1:03 pm
The Braves have the SP which is the foundation but they are weak in the pen, poor defensively and really have a lack of patience, speed & power. Overall they need to improve the pen and 4 plus defenders & offensive players-no small order.
http://www.avasflowers.com/georgia/
dap01
October 22nd, 2009
1:06 pm
The Braves should not sign stop gap players. They need to try to WIN next year. With the starting pitching that they have, they could easily make a couple of additions and be a top level club.
dmack2027
October 22nd, 2009
1:07 pm
I thought Barbaro did pretty well with the Braves last year. He is a right handed power hitting first baseman. He is also cheap. Wouldnt you rather have him than injury prone nick johnson?
dap01
October 22nd, 2009
1:10 pm
McLouth will not have 20 SB’s next year. Cox could slow down Vince Coleman in his prime.
nolie
October 22nd, 2009
1:14 pm
(DAP)
Branyan has a career 331 OBP. That is not goosecially not good enough to make up for all the Ks. He has had just a couple of decent MLB seasons and has stunost of the time. last time they had him they dumped him b4 st ended.pretty sure they aren’t gonna revisit that story
rammerjammer
October 22nd, 2009
1:21 pm
dap01,
Cox adjusts his strategy to fit his personnel. In 2000, his Braves were second in the league in stolen bases, with six players exceeding ten swipes (in other words, it wasn’t all one guy). Bobby didn’t suddenly forget how to run. He just doesn’t have the horses, McLouth excepted.
O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
1:23 pm
This may be way off course, but bear with me.
In basketball, a team is able to do sign and trade deals. Could the Braves sign Hudson with the intention that he will be traded for our RH bat (assuming Hudson knew up front what was going on, and the other team was involved as well)?
bvillebaron
October 22nd, 2009
1:23 pm
Boy, I sure hope you are right about the Braves sitting down and working on a new contract with Tim Hudson. IMHO, they MUST re-sign him.
Rob from SC
October 22nd, 2009
1:31 pm
My feelings about LaRoche is indifferent. He really struggles in the first half of the season.
Blaze Of Gory
October 22nd, 2009
1:32 pm
Two points made on the blog that interested me most. First is the offensive options the Braves may be considering and second, the Bobby Cox, “Prado could play right field,” comment.
I’m not going to be as optimistic as to what the Braves chances are in 2010 unless they break spring training after adding offensive weapons. If they keep LaRoche, they STILL have to add another bat to be considered a bigger threat than they were in 2009. The bottom line is that team was still at least one bat away last year. Now if they let LaRoche walk, they are the big bat away PLUS the bat they lose because LaRoche is gone.
I think most Braves fans of the last few years are tired of the philosophy exercised by management over the last few years of…. “well if everything falls into place…IF this one produces…..IF that one produces….” The Braves need to break camp with PROVEN upgrades in some areas, NOT “if someone produces, finger crossing, click your heels together, hope everything works out,”….improvements. In my mind, Heyward is wishful thinking and is not an acceptable alternative to a proven bat. If Heyward makes the team and has a world class year, then that is gravy! But the Braves don’t need to break camp telling the world that they are going to be OK after not getting the proven big stick.
On a similar note, we’ve all heard the last few years that the Braves leave spring training prepared to make deals before the trade deadline if they need to. Well that philosophy is kind of hogwash. The Braves played well at, and after the deadline this year. They dug themselves a hole with their play in the first half that they couldn’t dig themselves out of. YES….. you can lose it in the first half which is exactly what the team did. Screw trade deadline deals! Go “all in” over the winter and have your strongest team in April! I don’t want to hear they have 5-7 mil flexibility at the deadline. Spend the 5-7 mil before April! Get the best talent you can get from day one!
Now, on to Bobby. I think any way you slice it, Bobby’s comment about Prado in right and not giving up on Kelly just display why it’s time Bobby leaves. I don’t believe it’s Bobby just supporting Kelly on the surface to build him up…. I believe it’s Bobby’s man love getting in the way of him making a good managerial decision. I think he really loves KJ and it blinds his decision making. I believe he loved Frenchy the same way….until the winter before he was finally traded. I think the Jarimillo deal might have rubbed Bobby wrong.
I hear it said over and over that a manager does little to influence the outcome of a game. I can tell you this…. if a manager has a guy in the lineup who sucks over someone on the bench who is better….. it can influence the outcome of the game. If he’s starting a couple of guys who suck over better options on the bench, it’s twice as hard to win. If he’s too stubborn or too old or just too dumb to recognize that, then it’s time for him to go. I’m glad Bobby is outta here after this year.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
1:33 pm
O’Brien,
If you’re asking a theoretical question, yes. That is allowed. Practically, no. First of all, Hudson will be a 10-and-5 in January so he can’t be traded without his permission. Probably more importantly, that rarely, if ever, happens.
dap01
October 22nd, 2009
1:33 pm
rammerjammer: I am not disputing that, I do remember the drop offs of Grissom and Lofton when they were with the Braves. I have formed that opinion while watching the Braves for 25 years.
Fleming
October 22nd, 2009
1:33 pm
nolie
Is your last post some king of new shorthand
bruce
October 22nd, 2009
1:36 pm
Dave —
thanks for the thoughts on release timing and Barbaro… I see where he might be pinch hitter/backup 1B? or better off in AL where he could primarily PH and backup 1B? (the trade value)
I also want to buzz in on the kudos for you for a great season… I got very discouraged three times when i thought we were out of it, but stayed faithful… your work, extra hours, insights and humor really made a difference for me (again). I am looking forward to your opinions from the Arizona Fall League and the upcoming roster fills and tune-up moves.
McFann — yes howdy, doing well… getting down to the final lap on election season here in Virginia, my man Ken Cuccinelli is leading in the polls for Attorney General, I was actually in one of his tv commercials that was aired all over the state in the last couple of weeks… I’m on Ken’s left at the table at seconds 10 and 11 on this link , you will have to pause it to see me it goes by so fast…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gvgm2t8gik it was fun filming it… got yelled at by the director several times because Ken was being funny and I would smile or laugh and they had to start over.
Jeff —
thanks! I appreciate your thoughts, they are more balanced about Philly than I would probably be… they heartily boo their own players in one inning and go crazy cheering two innings later… my wife is a bit scared of them, especially when she could hear me taking grief via cell phone while walking around the park before the game in Braves T or jacket.
I hope the team that wins the Yanks-Phils series wins it on the road so that thee home team fans at the park can absorb the loss and the winning team fans can not experience the win in person (does that make me mean?…. sounds like it but I hope it is more about how I feel about the two teams fans than the teams themselves) Never had that wish before.
Lew
October 22nd, 2009
1:37 pm
O’Brien-I can’t see Hudson going for a deal like that when he could get much more from some other team on the Free Agent market. If it were done vaguely like that, it would smack of what the Red Sox did to Bronson Arroyo-and that really sucked.
Better to just let Hudson walk, test the FA market and pocket the bucks he would have been paid to sign the bat they need. Be much easier, too.
CB
October 22nd, 2009
1:38 pm
Is dap01 a smaller version of DAP?
P-Town Brave
October 22nd, 2009
1:40 pm
Blaze of Gory-
Amen! I couldn’t have said it better myself!
I agree in that, wouldn’t it be nice for a change to have a cushion come the All-Star break or at least be a major threat to ruining this so called Philly dynasty?
If the answer is yes then the powers that be need to go out with the intention and delivery of a Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, or the like.
And please, make the next month get here fast so we can rid ourselves of all the Kelly Johnson talk.
I listened to a podcast yesterday that made perfect sense in that the guys compared Bobby to an alcoholic, bascially stating that Frank Wren needs to remove all the liquor (Norton, Johnson, Acosta, etc.) from the cabinet otherwise Bobby will time and time again go right back to it.
Its Bobby’s final season (thank God) and Frank should be assembling something for himself and a manager he wants to build around for the future, not the narrow minded no speed, non-athletic Cox managing style.
Lew
October 22nd, 2009
1:41 pm
Rob-Not too sure LRoche is as bad in the first half as you and others seem to think. I went back and checked his stats throughout his career (minus his rookie season) and he came out at .252, with 14 HR and 54 RBI for the first half season average.
Now no one would be wise to argue that is excellent or anything, but had the Braves had that type of 1st half production from Kotchman last year, we might actually havegiven the Phillies a serious run for the division and definitely would have come in second, as opposed to third in the division.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2009
1:44 pm
not the narrow minded no speed, non-athletic Cox managing style.
As opposed to a slack-minded, no-brain, non-intelligent blogging style.
Not you, of course, but, some folks.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
1:45 pm
nolieBranyan has a career 331 OBP. That is not goosecially not good enough to make up for all the Ks.
his career numbers over all are really not that great. he really hasnt had very many full season, anyways. i was just talking about this past year. but, i will say that is you can slug over .500, then a OBP in the .330s is fine, even if you K 150 times. that simply opinion on my part.
Daslied
October 22nd, 2009
1:53 pm
Lew – agreed on LaRoche. He’s average in the first half, but it looks worse because he’s ridiculous in the 2nd half. To me, the split is not a dealbreaker.
Fleming
October 22nd, 2009
1:53 pm
Lew
LaRoche first half last season .250 .336 .447
Kotchman first half last season .274 .346 .395
How many wins do you think the difference translate too considering how far the Braves were behind Phillies at end of season
O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
1:55 pm
Thanks for the response guys.
As DOB mentioned some blogs ago, Hudson might be the domino that gets everything going after all. If the Hudson deal happens first, then that would suggest that the Braves believe they can trade Lowe for a big bat (unless they trade KK and another piece or 2). If Hudson signs with another team, then the Braves would spend that money to sign a FA Left Fielder.
Frank Wren did a good job addressing our starting pitchers last year (even if he might have given Lowe one year too long on his deal). I hope Wren can come through again this offseason, because the Phillies are loaded, and they will be the team to beat again next year.
Their #8 guy (Ruiz) has about 8 RBI in the playoffs. Maybe thats what Bobby has in mind when he bats LaRoche 7th or 8th. (Although the Phills have Utley/Howard/Werth/Ilbanez to rely on at the top of the order).
nolie
October 22nd, 2009
1:56 pm
was your last post some king of new shorthand (Fleming)
i was using a lap top that now has keyboard issues. shoulda proofread it b4 posting but usually too lazy
Chris from the Rock
October 22nd, 2009
1:58 pm
DOB and others, if they Braves officially put Lowe on the market, would any teams have serious interest in him and the 3 yrs/$45M left on his contract? And could the Braves actually get anything of major value in return? The Mets might have interest, but Wren wouldn’t make another trade with their division rivals, right? We all know Lowe doesn’t want to go back to the West Coast, so I doubt Wren would trade him to the Angels or Mariners. Might the Yankees have interest? They have some payroll coming of the books this year with Damon and others. And I don’t think they trust Wang. Comments?
CB
October 22nd, 2009
1:59 pm
Lew, you know I am for signing LaRoche because I am afraid we might end up with the kind of lineup that we started last season with. We have some great starting pitching, but currently setup we are not a good hitting team and we really,really need an infusion of power somewhere on this team. If we are hoping for Heyward to be that power hitter at 20 years old, we really are dreaming. I think our best hope is a blockbuster trade bringing somebody in that will balance this lineup and give us a team that can matchup with the Phillies talent wise.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
2:17 pm
Scathing, scoots, absolutely scathing. The blood splattered on me all the way down here.
Supes
October 22nd, 2009
2:21 pm
Matt Diaz was live (in studio) at ESPN First Take this morning. He did the opening segment Q/A about the playoffs with Dana J. (handled that well) and later during 4th down…they had him sit on the Bobby Bowden (debate) since Matt is a former FSU alum (granted, he didn’t play football but was relevant to the topic). He held his own against Skip Bayless. Matt was also a “sharped dress man” with the suit and tie.
Overall, represented the Braves in good light (better than that joker A. J. Pierzinski(sp) with the fake blonde hair from the White Sox).
Matt Diaz is one guy the Braves need to hold on to for the 4th OF spot, pinch hitting and overall bench play.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2009
2:21 pm
By the way, RHR, in no way did I have you in mind when I spoke the other day of old dudettes ruling. Surely had in mind someone else entirely.
nolie
October 22nd, 2009
2:34 pm
Scathing, scoots, absolutely scathing. The blood splattered on me all the way down here. (RHR)
you two are sooo mean. I’m glad I’m not like that, but am sweeeet and luvable
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
2:42 pm
Bruce–
Good to read that you’re doing well and that your man is leading in the polls! I’ll try out that link–thanks for posting it!
got yelled at by the director several times because Ken was being funny and I would smile or laugh and they had to start over.
Haha! Sounds like fun!
Richard Nieh
October 22nd, 2009
2:46 pm
There are two direction the Braves can go in this offseason. One is that resign Anderson and LaRoche and somehow keep one of the FA reliever. Keep the same team as 2009 and probably get a few second tire relivers through trade by giving up one of the starter. It is very unlikely they can trade for top tire reliever to big bat through trade and the trade may hurt the farm which is not that thick after Hanson and Heyward come up.
Another way is that dumping Hudson (or Lowe if possible), do not resign anyone and figurefilling those holes out later. Do whatever it takes to sign Jason Bay or Matt Holiday. The middle of line up will be not affected anyway much anyway. It does not that hurt using Freeman or Heyward hitting 8th even if they don’t perform. (I think they will be great.) Or they can use Johnson play second and Prado play first and firgure things out later.
Either way, I don’t see the Braves play worse than 2009, which I though they had fine season. I don’t believe they will lose season series to Pirates, Padres or Reds again and their interleague opponents is so much easier next season. I think it is pretty easy to improve 10 wins and they will do it no matter what.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
2:47 pm
Bruce–
Nice commercial!
Good luck with everything up there!
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
2:47 pm
Quick, what’s the name of the Cuban joint that a couple of people here have recommended, the one behind the Shrine on Ponce?
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
2:49 pm
Rammerjammer: You’re reading something into my comments that I didn’t say or imply. I never said anything about Frank penciling in Freeman for 2011. He’s never said that. I (and others) have speculated he’ll be ready within two years, nothing more. Wren hasn’t indicated what they’re going to do next year at 1B.
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
2:53 pm
Nevermind, it’s Las Palmeras. Just found it.
Daslied
October 22nd, 2009
2:56 pm
The KC beat writer, Sam Mellinger, is suggesting that the Royals trade Joakim Soria. Too bad we already dumped Frenchy.
That was a joke.
Chris Farley
October 22nd, 2009
2:56 pm
Is it Las Palmeras? Cause I was gonna say Las Palmeras.
Daybed Wagmoe
October 22nd, 2009
2:56 pm
Enter your comments here
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
2:58 pm
daslied, so are they not going to trade soria? because that would be great…
monty
October 22nd, 2009
3:03 pm
In regards to Lowe “easily fixing” his slider/sinker, if it was so “easy to fix” why didn’t he correct it midstream? I’m an avid golfer and golfers are always “working” on their swings. The problem is that once you mature honing a certain swing, you don’t “easily” change it, even if you know what to do or not do to correct certain problems. Even the most minor changes involve alot of time and dedication. We got that reliever Kolb a few years ago and the talk was his “outstanding sinker”, well, I kept watching for it but I swear I couldn’t see what all the fuss was about. If he ever did have a great sinker he lost it before he got to the Braves(hence his ineffectiveness) and couldn’t regain it because his most effective pitch was his slider. Not saying Lowe can’t regain it, just can’t assume that he will or that it’s “easily fixable”.
Huddy's Ligament
October 22nd, 2009
3:05 pm
Gotta get some guys who can hit the longball consistently – Booby cannot when without it.
So go get it, Frankie.
nolie
October 22nd, 2009
3:09 pm
Soria. where did that come from? given up on by 2 orgs. not great minor league numbers, and now a MLB stud. One never knows, do one?
monty
October 22nd, 2009
3:09 pm
Yeh, lets make Diaz the “4th OF” since he had the highest OPS. on the Braves the 2nd half of the season,a high OBP and batted over .300. “Good job Matt we ‘ve got a bench role for you! You earned it kid!”. “We’ll even let you pinch hit dude. One day you might play well enough to start!” LOL!
rammerjammer
October 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm
DOB,
I inserted Freeman into the conversation based on your guess (”…if they re-sign LaRoche, they obviously don’t need a first baseman. But if they don’t – and if I had to guess right now, I’d say they won’t…”) that LaRoche wouldn’t be re-signed; therefore, I theorized Frank would sign a one-year guy to keep 1B warm for Freeman in 2011. Never linked you to Freeman. That was me doing the speculating.
Lew
October 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm
Fleming-The added value with LaRoche the first half of this year would have been the difference between Roachy’s 14 (avg) HR’s before the break, compared to Kotchman’s 2. Yes, CK hit well for average and OBP, but the lack of power is what killed us. I think it could have made 4-5 games difference the way the first half went had LaRoache been there all season. I admit that’s speculation, but that one or two runs in quite a few games (especially with our pitching) would have made a HUGE difference.
CB-I want ALR re-signed, but want to see them wave goodbye to Hudson and take the $12 mil they’d save and get more offense. I think that having Prado all year will help power wise, too. He should easily hit 15 and I’m not sure if many here expected Yunel to be in the 15 range, either.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm
Lowe is an off and on pitcher. He goes through ups and downs throughout a season, and he’ll have mediocre seasons followed by stellar ones. If last year was considered mediocre, then we’re in for a good season from Lowe (well either us or a trade partner).
Reading Lowe’s comments after his last start give me plenty of reason to believe he can regain the form on his sinker.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm
Papi’s is the Cuban sandwich place on Ponce that everyone raves about. I’m yet to try it.
Daslied
October 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm
DAP – the suggestion to trade Soria is true, the Frenchy part untrue. I’d say there’s about a 2% chance of that happening; the writer was saying that they need upgrades just about everywhere.
BossLady
October 22nd, 2009
3:20 pm
The Phillies played good baseball all year. Along the way they picked up players when needed, regular players stepped up and they genuinely played hard every game. I see in them the desire and need to win games. All of the come from behind wins in the 8th and 9th inning are signs of they never give up. Looking around the National League they are by far the best team to hold the Championship. The Braves ran out of gas and desire to win leaving some with colds from the rain, bank accounts hit hard with just empty seats. Not a winning attitude type of organization.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
3:20 pm
Never been a LaRoche fan, but he finally earned my respect this last half season. Really good teammate and produced…but I’m still skeptical of his 1st halves. With a lack of better options, he may be our best option for next year.
Would anyone else here consider a Freddie Freeman, Billy Butler trade besides me? Love Freeman, but Butler already looks established.
mike
October 22nd, 2009
3:36 pm
Escobar to Oakland
for
Andrew Bailey- this guy is a beast closer in his rookie season
OF Scott Hairston he’s signed through 2011, good player
Mike WUertz 100 k’s for reliever 2nd in mlb
Grey Beard
October 22nd, 2009
3:45 pm
Grizzled Veteran isn’t the only old timer following this blog. I followed the Giants from the time that they moved to San Francisco until the 1970’s. First, I agree that Willie Mays was a more complete baseball player than Andruw Jones. Willie had his 50+ home run year, but he also was a .300+ average hitter (lost out for the batting championship one year by .0004 to Richy Ashburn) with many 100+ RBI years. He just stayed around too long as many super-stars do. His last year or so with the Giants and his time with the Mets should not be used to degrade the career he had from 1951 through the 1960’s.
On another point, the Braves of the last few years remind me very much of the 1960 – 1966 Giants. Very good starting pitching, but only two home run threats. Still they played Base-to-base baseball – - hit a single and wait for someone to hit a home run. They got to the World Series once (1962) during those years and lost to the Yankees in seven games. But they got that far only because some of the non-stars had a exceptional years during the 1962 season. The Giants kept looking for another big hitter, but never found him. In fact, they traded for Harvey Kuenn during that time, and although he hit lead-off and had an average above .300, the fans and the San Francisco Chronicle wanted him gone because he didn’t hit home runs. That is why Matty Alou – - all 5′8″ and 165 pounds of him – - tried to be a power hitter and hit .230 when he was capable of winning a batting crown. Is that what the Braves are doing to McLouth, Dias, Escobar, Prado, Shaefer and others? Maybe the Braves have a lead-off hitter already on the roster, but the only way to be a starter for the Braves is to hit home runs! It didn’t work then and it isn’t working now.
Andy K.
October 22nd, 2009
3:45 pm
mike, then who do you suppose should play SS??? Escobar will not be traded…he’s too young and too valuable.
Andy K.
October 22nd, 2009
3:48 pm
I say sign DeRosa, and/or Nelson Cruz. If only DeRosa, he could play RF and spell Chipper every now and then. If Cruz, he plays Right until Heyward up, then a trading chip after 2010. If both, You can get LaRoche go, maybe? Then D-Ro can play first Cruz in right. Or keep LaRoche, but thats a lot of money for two outfielders and a 1B.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:49 pm
Great quote to augment my Schafer argument:
Aron (STL)
Klaw is Daryl Jones really a 5 tool guy i see no power at all slug/ OPS .378/739. those are Juan Pierre numbers! I don’t see that playing in a corner OF
Klaw
(1:34 PM)
Good thing a half season of AA stats isn’t definitive then, isn’t it?
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
3:49 pm
Rammerjammer: And you may be right. I’m just saying, it’s not something Wren has said or implied.
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
3:52 pm
PWH: No, not Papi’s. That’s another one, but that’s not the one I’m talking about. This one’s on Fifth, not Ponce.
Andy K.
October 22nd, 2009
3:53 pm
Why is everyone giving up on Jordan Schafer? So he stumbled into the mid season, not to mention with a severe wrist injury. Give the kid a chance. Chances are he’ still just as good as we thought he was that first game in Philly, he just needs to be 100%. He’ll probably start out as Gwinnett’s starting CF, but in time I hope he’s starting with the big club. Picture an OF of McLouth, Heyward, and re-adjusted Schafer, in a year or two maybe sooner.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
3:55 pm
Steve (Ohio)
Hi Keith, I was wondering what your opinion is on Mike Minor, along with what you’ve heard other people say about him. Still bummed the Braves took him 7th overall. Thanks!
Klaw
(2:13 PM)
Wrote about him last week too – back-end starter.
Was that our Steve from OH? I’m willing to bet it’s not.
P-Town Brave
October 22nd, 2009
3:57 pm
Mike-
WOW! That one could be headlined as one of the worst trade ideas ever…
I guess while we’re at it, why don’t we trade Jair to Cincinnati for Dickerson, Ramirez, Janish, and Hannigan
OR
Maybe we can send BMac to Arizona for Mulvey, Roberts, and Romero…
Ok, you should get the point by now…
P-Town Brave
October 22nd, 2009
3:59 pm
Andy-
My one concern.
Can you name a ML outfield w/ all 3 players being strickly left-handed?
Along w/ that we have an issue in that we also will have BMac and possibly LaRoche, and then Chipper who always has had more power from the left side.
You see my point here? Thats why I don’t like the Schafer/McLouth/Heyward OF setup.
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
4:06 pm
One of our regulars, an actual recording artists with an album that I bought before I ever knew he read the blog, sent me this e-mail. (I actually like a bunch of the acts on this list, too.):
Agency names 35 artists, songs used on U.S. military terror suspects A Freedom of Information Act request filed on Thursday names 35 musicians or songs that it said were used against detainees at U.S. military detention centers, including the one at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The National Security Archive — the Washington-based independent research institute that filed the request — said the documents it is seeking “contain explicit references to the following bands or songs”:
– AC/DC
– Aerosmith
– Barney theme song (By Bob Singleton)
– The Bee Gees
– Britney Spears
– Bruce Springsteen
– Christina Aguilera
– David Gray
– Deicide
– Don McClean
– Dope
– Dr. Dre
– Drowning Pool
– Eminem
– Hed P.E.
– James Taylor
– Limp Bizkit
– Marilyn Manson
– Matchbox Twenty
– Meatloaf
– Meow mix jingle
– Metallica
– Neil Diamond
– Nine Inch Nails
– Pink
– Prince
– Queen
– Rage against the Machine
– Red Hot Chili Peppers
– Redman
– Saliva
– Sesame street theme music (By Christopher Cerf)
– Stanley Brothers
– The Star Spangled Banner
– Tupac Shakur
Andy K.
October 22nd, 2009
4:08 pm
P-Town. Thats tue, didn’t think about that. We’d have to be Righty heavy in the infield basically to make that balanced. But things should unfold in a few years when decisions have to be made. Plus sad but true Chipper’s only got a few years left, and after that they could get a righty 3B
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
4:12 pm
the meow mix jingle? now thats torture.
Lunatic Fringe
October 22nd, 2009
4:15 pm
DOB,
So that explains Marilyn Manson—he is a government employee
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:22 pm
I may or may not be a recording artist.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:22 pm
If you’ve ever heard me sing along to the radio before you’re laughing right now.
Ken Griffey Jr.
October 22nd, 2009
4:23 pm
STEVE PHILLIPS STILL CAN’T EVALUATE TALENT!
thank you, thank you… I’ll be here all week
AndyC
October 22nd, 2009
4:24 pm
I’m ok with the Braves letting Roachy go but they have to find a good replacement with good power. The only problem is that if this is a one year rental situation with the expectation that Freeman will be ready in 2011, what do they do if Freeman doesn’t work out? They will be stuck in a situation where they may not be able to afford the one year rental after 2010, assuming he produced solid numbers. I would at least try to resign Roachy. Maybe the market will soften like it did last year and he can be had for a reasonable two year deal.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:24 pm
By the way, RHR, in no way did I have you in mind when I spoke the other day of old dudettes ruling. Surely had in mind someone else entirely.
Thanks for chiming right in with a post before we got to another page, BossLady.
AndyC
October 22nd, 2009
4:25 pm
RHR
Is that you Madonna?
My Mans Gots To Know
October 22nd, 2009
4:27 pm
Fatter? Mo Vaughn or Brooke Hundley?
Worse Career Ending Transaction? Mo Vaughn or Brooke Hundley?
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:28 pm
Ew no. I’m definitely NOT a pre-madonna. I was just a babe in the woods when she started out.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:30 pm
As a woman I can’t laugh or make comments on the Steve Phillips thing because it’ll make me look bad. I’m either laughing or cringing. I can’t say.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
4:31 pm
I have an album….but we’ve sold about 100 copies in oh…a year.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
4:34 pm
McFann – don’t know if you saw the vent from a few months ago, but it went something like
McCann can. Jorge Cantu. And Greg Norton is terrible.
CB
October 22nd, 2009
4:36 pm
jeffrey d, family members bought the 100?
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:38 pm
Oh hey, jeffrey is telling the truth. I saw something about a recording studio on his facebook the other day. Me? I’m lying like a dog. Only recording I’ve ever done is when I was about 7 I used to hide a tape recorder under my big sister’s bed so I could record her and her friends talking when they came over and locked me out.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2009
4:38 pm
As a woman I can’t laugh or make comments on the Steve Phillips thing because it’ll make me look bad.
Hey, you think he’s not making us GUYS look bad?!?
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
4:40 pm
jeffrey d, family members bought the 100?
Yeah, probably. And maybe a couple deaf people.
My Mans Gots To Know
October 22nd, 2009
4:41 pm
Safe to say now that Todd Hundley wasn’t the only Hundley who sucked under Steve Phillips?
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
4:42 pm
when I was about 7 I used to hide a tape recorder under my big sister’s bed so I could record her and her friends talking when they came over and locked me out
You ever get anything good?
AndyC
October 22nd, 2009
4:45 pm
I am both laughing and cringing about the Steve Phillips thing. This guy is a world class screw-up. A multiple cheater who can’t keep it in his pants. He is a dirty dog and I hope his soon-to-be ex-wife takes him for every cent he has. Wouldn’t you look to see him on the stand during the divorce hearing and see her lawyer ripping him to shreds? That would be good tv.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:46 pm
jeffrey – they were like 11…so no, I don’t remember anything notable.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
4:47 pm
jeffrey d–
Don’t think I ever saw that one, but I did see one a while back that said, “Brian McCann, Jorge Cantu, Jeff still can’t.”
ugaaccountant
October 22nd, 2009
4:50 pm
One reason some folks are “giving up” on Schafer is that his minor league numbers were not outstanding like a Jason Heyward. See the last few pages of yesterday’s blog for P.W.Hjort’s counterargument that they were really good.
I like Schafer when compared with options like Gregor Blanco or Ryan Church or Garett Anderson. But now that management has our hopes up for a Matt Holliday type slugger, a guy like Schafer doesn’t really compare. Last offseason we were a bad team trying to get to good. Now we’re a good team wanting to win it all. Maybe Schafer comes up and knocks Diaz out of our team, but my interpretation of his career to date, the good and the bad, is he isn’t good enough to displace McLouth for 2010 or likely 2011.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
4:51 pm
McFann – THAT was it. I remembered the last part was insulting to a not so great player. Guess I forgot about Francoeur.
Your talk about Cantu just made me think about that.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
4:51 pm
“Brian McCann, Jorge Cantu, Jeff still can’t.”
Ha, I love it.
ugaaccountant
October 22nd, 2009
4:52 pm
You know, I think the phillies being so dominant might get the Braves a few more dollars in their acquisition pile. Even a liberty media like owner should notice that we’ll have a hard time competing with 2 time defending champs as currently budgeted.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
4:53 pm
Speaking of vents, I see mine got voted next to last today. Ouch…I’ve been pretty off lately.
Daslied
October 22nd, 2009
4:53 pm
I’m working on my 3rd album, but it wasn’t me, since DOB indicated one was actually purchased.
ncscoots
October 22nd, 2009
4:54 pm
but my interpretation of his career to date, the good and the bad, is he isn’t good enough to displace McLouth for 2010 or likely 2011.
I believe I’ll bookmark that one, my friend. Might want to return to it at a later date.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
4:54 pm
Maybe it’s because I said billions when I meant millions. Or maybe it’s because we’re red and some people don’t like Obama.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:55 pm
If I were her divorce attorney I would probably approach him and say “REALLY?!” and then rest my case.
CB
October 22nd, 2009
4:57 pm
ugaaccountant,in defense of PWH, he was really counterarguing Schafer’s potential-we know what can happen to potential,they end up playing RF for the Mets.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
4:58 pm
Heck I’m probably good enough to displace McLouth most days.
Jersey Gil
October 22nd, 2009
4:59 pm
DOB…If the Yankee win tonight this Series will Call….
The NJ TURNPIKE SERIES…More Phillis Fan in this side of the River than in the City of Philadelphia..Couple Hour Drive.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
4:59 pm
-15…nice.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:01 pm
Heck I’m probably good enough to displace McLouth most days.
So’s McLouth’s little sister http://www.flickr.com/photos/tlaenpix/3440861490/
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:02 pm
Shoot…it was -13 when I checked just a few minutes ago.
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
5:02 pm
Here’s one way to go for the offense next season. We don’t resign ADAM LaROCHE, and we go get PRINCE FIELDER for 1st base. Now we have a bat for the middle of the line-up. FIELDER’s contract calls for 10.5 million in 2010, then arbitration kicks in. We lose LaROCHE and his 7.05 million. FIELDER had a monster year with the BREW-CREW. 46 HR’s, 141 RBI, .299 BA, 1.019 IPS, wow !! We can’t offer the BREWERS LaROCHE as an incentive because he’s no longer under contract unless we sign LaROCHE for close to what he’s making now then trade. But FIELDER’s bat would solve our offense problem w/o having to get a monster corner like BAY. Problem remains what will the BREWERS want as sweetners for the deal. It’s a one year deal, then problematic thereafter, and the sky’s the limit if FIELDERS 2010 is anywhere near his 2009. Just a thought, but if we pull off something like that, we might be able to squeeze in HUDSON at 9.5 million for three.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:04 pm
Well, it wasn’t me. I was going to be nice and vote it up by one to -14.
Um, it’s -16 now.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
5:04 pm
jeffrey d Your talk about Cantu just made me think about that.
Must be sub-conscientiously where I got it from…
You had a vent? I’ll have to go see that…
Soph Ha, I love it.
Yeah…kinda mean, but ya know…
ugaaccountant
October 22nd, 2009
5:04 pm
NCSCOOTS – I did mean displace as in actually being better, not just there to save money. Sorry about that.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
5:04 pm
Fooey…
Supes
October 22nd, 2009
5:07 pm
Old Kincade gloating on 680thefan today about his Phillies.
I’m going to be forced to root for the Yankees (if they win the AL) b/c I just can’t find myself pulling for the stinking Phillies.
Frank Wren on the air in a few btw at 5:30pm
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:08 pm
You had a vent? I’ll have to go see that…
You make it sound like I’m too stupid to post a vent
ugaaccountant
October 22nd, 2009
5:08 pm
Richbrave – The brewers would want one of Jurrjens or Hanson or Heyward, plus more players, for Fielder. We aren’t going to get some other teams MVP candidate for free.
Also I’m almost certain we can’t trade Laroche or Hudson. Even if they resign with us, you can’t immediately trade them. Think about the underlying fairness of a free agent choosing to sign with us and then we immediately send him to Milwaukee, where he had no interest in being? Guys put in a lot of service to reach free agency so they get at least half a season I believe with the team they chose.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:09 pm
That was meant to sound a lot less angry than it probably appeared.
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
5:14 pm
In the outfield around McLOUTH, I would alternate KJ in left and DIAZ in right, with CHURCH on the bench (if he’s not hurt again) depending on the starting pitching from game to game. Then let HEYWARD come up after the deadline provided he doesn’t have a moment at GWINNETT like FREDDIE FREEMAN did at MISSISSIPPI. If HEYWARD’s not ready at that point, go get a corner to finish the season and thereafter. Lose GARRETT ANDERSON and pocket the 2.5 million plus get a possible Class B pick in the draft.
In the pen I would sign GONZO, provided he’s reasonable salary-wise, and lose SORIANO possibly getting a Class A pick in return.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:18 pm
The vents aren’t as funny as they used to be. Now they let anyone post one.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:19 pm
Is this yours Mixxo?
The Braves should be watching and learning from the Phillies. Think scrappy.
It has your name written all over it.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:19 pm
And they shoot down the good ones
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
5:20 pm
ugaaccountant:
Well, that’s one way to go, but you’re right re: FIELDER. The price would be too high IMO. I certainly wouldn’t give up anything of real value in the short-term for a TEIXEIRA-type situation. As I said just a thought. As to LaROCHE, we could sign and trade. It’s not nice, but I’m sure it’s been done.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:21 pm
Now, this UGA vent is funny.
We really can beat FLA.
Uh huh. Believe!
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:25 pm
Oh we CAN beat Florida. Arkansas almost beat them and we beat Arkansas.
That was probably an aberration, though and we’ll probably get our butts handed to us. I believe it was Bradley or Schultz who said this bye week was like a Green Mile for UGA heading to death row.
P-Town Brave
October 22nd, 2009
5:26 pm
Richbrave-
You must have hit your head in the last few days or something. There’s no way the team keeps both KJ and Church in part time roles at 3+ Mil each and the only way they get a sandwich pick for Anderson is if they offer him arbitration and that will never happen as there’d be a good possibility he would accept it.
Not only that, isn’t the wait and see approach pretty much what the team did this past season with the OF? Yeah, look where that got them.
I mean I hate to nit pick and get on you like this, but that just stood out to me, among all the capitalizations and all…
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:27 pm
lol McFann – did you vote up jeffrey’s vent?
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
5:28 pm
Haha! Sorry, jeffrey! I didn’t mean it that way.
I’m seeing no vents with a -16 or whatever today…the lowest I’m seeing is -2.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:28 pm
Well, I mean you never know. Maybe UGA gets it together during the bye and does take out Florida. It’s possible.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:29 pm
McFann -
http://projects.ajc.com/vent/sports/
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
5:29 pm
Soph–
I can’t…don’t know where it is. What day was it from?
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:30 pm
Ok, I find it hard to believe there’s not a single traffic incident in Georgia so the Georgia Navi site must be having issues.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
5:31 pm
Ah, thanks, Soph! See, I was looking at the Braves Only Vent…
abwright
October 22nd, 2009
5:31 pm
DOB, that’s an eclectic list of music to be using against detainees. Especially considering that many of us subject ourselves to it voluntarily. It reminded me of that Kate Bush song, “Experiment 4.” “From the painful cries of mothers to the terrifying scream, we recorded it and put it into our machine.”
She’s definitely talking about the Barney theme song there!
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:34 pm
I don’t read the Braves Vents when the Braves are doing bad. It gets even stupider there than it does on here.
Or after UGA loses. Then all the Techies are like “huh huh huh…45-42!”
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
5:35 pm
forgive me if this has been posted already but it’s kinda awesome (in a really twisted kind of way
)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/10/22/dodgers.mccourts/index.html
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:38 pm
Haaa, McFann – you voted it down, didn’t you?
-18 and counting…
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:39 pm
I think I voted it down too….it’s better to have high interest in either direction than low interest. A -18 makes a much stronger point than a +3. Even if that point is “He’s an idiot”
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
5:41 pm
I guess I’ll be the -20th one then. I’d be honored.
Vinings Jim
October 22nd, 2009
5:42 pm
cabravesfan – I want to be sure I understand your viewpoint – are you in favor of a man using his business position to inflict further damage on his estranged wife?
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:43 pm
oh I don’t take it too personally.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:44 pm
If you change “billions” to “millions” I do believe I make a valid point. Certainly not a negative 20 point.
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
5:46 pm
Hanson, Happ and Coghlan are the three finalists for Players’ Choice version of the NL rookie award.
Here’s complete list of their finalists for awards in each league:
2009 Players Choice Awards Finalists:
American League:
Outstanding Player: Derek Jeter (NY Yankees), Joe Mauer (Minnesota), Kendry Morales (LA Angels of Anaheim)
Outstanding Pitcher: Roy Halladay (Toronto), Zack Greinke (Kansas City), C.C. Sabathia (NY Yankees)
Outstanding Rookie: Elvis Andrus (Texas), Gordon Beckham (Chicago White Sox), Jeff Niemann (Tampa Bay)
Comeback Player: Russell Branyon (Seattle), Aaron Hill (Toronto), Scott Podsednik (Chicago White Sox)
National League:
Outstanding Player: Prince Fielder (Milwaukee), Albert Pujols (St. Louis), Hanley Ramirez (Florida)
Outstanding Pitcher: Chris Carpenter (St. Louis), Tim Lincecum (San Francisco), Adam Wainwright (St. Louis)
Outstanding Rookie: Chris Coghlan (Florida), Tommy Hanson (Atlanta), J.A. Happ (Philadelphia)
Comeback Player: Aaron Boone (Houston), Chris Carpenter (St. Louis), Nick Johnson (Florida)
Either League:
Player of Year: Joe Mauer (Minnesota), Albert Pujols (St. Louis), Hanley Ramirez (Florida)
Man of the Year: Curtis Granderson (Detroit), Torii Hunter (LA Angeles of Anaheim), Albert Pujols (St. Louis)
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
5:49 pm
Man of the Year? I haven’t heard of that before…is that something that involves community service too?
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
5:49 pm
P-TOWN BRAVE:
I guess I did. Thanks for setting me straight. I promise not to misbehave again.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
5:50 pm
Soph–
I didn’t touch it, I swear!
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
5:51 pm
P-TOWN:
I’ll lurk around waiting for your takes on things, then…..
tiger297
October 22nd, 2009
5:53 pm
ok I voted it down for you as well -21 and falling or is it 3 feet high and rising
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
5:54 pm
VJ-
Not at all…I can’t stand either one of them and that thing is going to get ugly (and I am easily amused, what can I say?)
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
5:54 pm
Is this yours Mixxo?
The Braves should be watching and learning from the Phillies. Think scrappy.
It has your name written all over it. – Soph
Nope, but I’d be proud to take credit for it.
Excellent analysis…..whoever penned it!
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
5:54 pm
I guess Mauer gets all that special consideration because of that high AVG and the fact that his team made the playoffs, eh?
Didn’t see BMac get any consideration in ‘06…or ever for that matter…
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
5:56 pm
Oh lordy…Mixxo appears just as I pose my Q…
Don’t even mention defense because Mauer’s dropped considerably this year!
Hugging Harold Reynolds
October 22nd, 2009
5:57 pm
I worked for Baseball Tonight for years and years, and all I got was a hug.
Vinings Jim
October 22nd, 2009
5:59 pm
okay, just curious if that was your general evil nature, or recognition of the natural dominance of the male in a relationship
[note - the author of this post in no way endorses that second point of view]
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
6:01 pm
McFann Ô –
No sweat Fanny. I’m keeping my trap shut till next year on Mac.
Can’t hate on him anyway, he’s just too nice a guy.
Couch Tater
October 22nd, 2009
6:03 pm
“It’s hard to get a good barstool for the Vikings game, officer”…
A Minnesota man has pleaded guilty to driving his motorized La-Z-Boy chair while drunk. A criminal complaint says 62-year-old Dennis LeRoy Anderson told police he left a bar in the northern Minnesota town of Proctor on his chair after drinking eight or nine beers AP
…”and they forced me to listen to that techno dance music.”
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
6:05 pm
ugaaccountant -
See the last few pages of yesterday’s blog for P.W.Hjort’s counterargument that they were really good.
You have completely missed my point. I don’t know how, I don’t think I could have possibly been more clear.
It’s not that Schafer’s minor league numbers are good (or bad). That’s not the argument I’m making. The argument I made is that Schafer’s minor league numbers don’t tell anywhere close to the whole story.
I’m as big of a stats nerd as anyone. But especially with prospects, you just can’t boil a player’s value down to their baseball-reference page. What scouts think is much more important than his OPS. Scouts thought he was ready to be a .300 hitting 20/20 player with high walk rates and plus plus defense in center at the start of the season. That’s what he is. Regardless of what his minor league numbers.
he isn’t good enough to displace McLouth for 2010 or likely 2011.
That is just not right. He’s likely to be better than McLouth both offensively and defensively. Perhaps as soon as late 2010, or even early 2010.
McLouth has hit .256/.343/.436/.779 in the past 10 months. Like it or not, that’s the real Nate McLouth. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a fine player. About average with the bat, bad in center, probably above-average at a corner, an asset on the base paths, la-la-la. But he ain’t the difference maker or impact player he was cracked up to be by all the beat writers and organizational mouths. Schafer is a future all-star center fielder in the mold of Grady Sizemore. He is that difference maker we all want McLouth to be.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
6:05 pm
Mixxo I’m keeping my trap shut till next year on Mac.
See that you do.
Can’t hate on him anyway, he’s just too nice a guy.
Eh, you did a pretty good job of it this year, so I wouldn’t say you can’t…Glad you finally came around to the right way of thinking, though. Hey, and he’s not a bad player, either. VERY good player and a class act–What the heck more could you want, anyway?
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
6:05 pm
natural dominance of the male in a relationship
Not even sure if that deserves a response, or if I should start planning my revenge…
A Minnesota man has pleaded guilty to driving his motorized La-Z-Boy chair while drunk
Is it wrong that I totally want one? (the chair, not the DUI)
nolie
October 22nd, 2009
6:11 pm
Is it wrong that I totally want one? (the chair, (CBF)
me too. sounds cool
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
6:13 pm
pwhjort McLouth has hit .256/.343/.436/.779 in the past 10 months. Like it or not, that’s the real Nate McLouth.
you could be right, then again he could be the guy who OPS over .800 two season in a row and then for about 1/4 of a season before coming to atlanta and eventually getting injured.
Couch Tater
October 22nd, 2009
6:15 pm
cabravesfan,
I found a better link with a picture. (He’s a graduate of William & Mary.)
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/1022091lazboy1.html
Braveheart
October 22nd, 2009
6:19 pm
Didn’t realize that the Phillies have 80 or more wins for the past 9 seasons, and have 85 or more wins in 8 of the past 9 seasons. That’s pretty impressive. Not as impressive as winning a World Series, and earning two straight trips to the World Series, but still impressive.
The Phils are the first repeat NL pennant winners since the Braves in 1995 & 1996. 10 different franchises won the NL pennant during that time. The only ones who didn’t were the Brewers, Pirates, Reds, Expos/Nats, Dodgers, & Cubs. So inexcusable for the Cubs and Dodgers to find themselves lumped in with those 4 other teams considering the markets they play in and the financial resources at their disposal
I really like this Phils team. It’s a really cool team that I find hard to hate even though I very much want to, and feel very guilty for not hating them.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
6:20 pm
(He’s a graduate of William & Mary.)
Figures.
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
6:21 pm
William & Mary, huh? Maybe VJ can whip one up for me…
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
6:24 pm
OPS over .800 two season in a row
His OPS was 800+ in 382 PA’s with an 80% platoon advantage in 2007 and because of two BABIP-fluky months of 1.000+ OPS in 2008.
Vinings Jim
October 22nd, 2009
6:26 pm
Doesn’t appear to be a recent grad…and I am unaware of any William and Mary students ever drinking – it must be a mistake
Also, my talents lie in areas other than designing motorized furniture…
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
6:27 pm
cabraves,
For the 1st time in my life, I’m “Thinking Blue”
I love it.
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
6:39 pm
Bobby’s Cox-
Why do I get the feeling the Dodgers are about to become the Raiders of baseball?
Couch Tater
October 22nd, 2009
6:50 pm
Didn’t realize that the Phillies have 80 or more wins for the past 9 seasons, and have 85 or more wins in 8 of the past 9 seasons. That’s pretty impressive. Not as impressive as winning a World Series, and earning two straight trips to the World Series, but still impressive. Braveheart
Sad is Pittsburgh. Beginning in 1964, 17 years 80+ wins. Beginning in 1993 17 years of a losing record.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
7:01 pm
Couch Tater Beginning in 1964, 17 years 80+ wins. Beginning in 1993 17 years of a losing record.
Sweet…so “only” 8 more seasons…
rainman
October 22nd, 2009
7:03 pm
Heres what i think we need to do. Trade medlin to the cubs for Jake Fox. That takes car of first base. Then find the top available outfielder that kills righthanders. Platoon diaz and said outfielder in left and put heyward in right. He is a stud that will at least do what anderson did this year and be way better on d. After that everything else is gravy. lock up huddy and convince someone to take lowe or kk and we should be set to make a run. If you havent seen fox he is a monster. With a full year of atbats i could see 28-30 hr with a solid 270-280 avg.
keylargo
October 22nd, 2009
7:06 pm
Everyone remembers Buck Belue to Lindsey Scott in 1980 that paved the way to the Sugar Bowl win over Notre Dame and the National Championship.
Here is another thriller that most of you “youngsters” might not remember, but was a great win and improbable win for Ga.
Yes, Soph and JeffreyD, it can be done!
1975: Appleby to Washington
The 1975 Florida Gators came into the game ranked #7 with a 6-1 record, while Georgia was 5-2 and ranked #19. The Gators’ offense was led by RB Tony Green, who ran in for an early one yard touchdown to put the Gators ahead 7-0. Georgia was able to get on the board with a field goal, and the score was Florida 7, Georgia 3 as time was winding down in the fourth quarter. Georgia’s “Junkyard Dawgs” defense allowed yards between the 20s but nothing in the red zone. The Bulldogs set up at their own 25 with 3:10 remaining, and head coach Vince Dooley did something he rarely did: he called a trick play. Richard Appleby took a reverse to the right, but instead of running it as he did earlier in the game, he threw it downfield to a wide open Gene Washington for an improbable 75 yard touchdown. The Gators’ final field goal attempt never had a chance, as the snap was rolled to the holder. Georgia won 10-7.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
7:11 pm
Doesn’t appear to be a recent grad…and I am unaware of any William and Mary students ever drinking – it must be a mistake
Good. I don’t think any UGA students have ever drank either.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
7:13 pm
Yes but this isn’t a #7 Florida and a #19 UGA. It’s a #1 Florida (with Tebow, which makes them like #-7) and an unranked UGA.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
7:15 pm
But again…I think they CAN win and of course I’ll still watch and root for them. But I’m leary of another absolute EMBARRASSMENT like last year.
keylargo
October 22nd, 2009
7:16 pm
Jeffrey D
it can be done!
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
7:18 pm
It can. We beat Tebow in ‘07….
Braveheart
October 22nd, 2009
7:29 pm
With those K rates he’s had, how do you think Schafer is going to be all that much better of a hitter than McLouth? A better fielder? Hopefully. A faster baserunner, yes, but a better baserunner? Not likely.
But, as far as his hitting goes, Schafer has a K rate around 25% in the minors. If you look at the major leaguers who’ve had K rates between 23% and 27% over the past 3 seasons combined, only one has hit over .275. The rest of them have hit .235, .267, .244, .244, .267, .273, .303, .260, .275, .270, .267. If he doesn’t lower that K rate, he’s destined to hit in the .260s. That’s okay so long as he has a BB rate of 12% or higher like McLouth does, and has an ISOP around .200 like McLouth does.
Those guys with the K rates between 23% and 27% have OPS numbers of .747, .855, .829, .817, .777, .828, .835, .841, .837, .737, .756. With those K rates, that’s what his range of performance will likely be. Ranges from slightly below average to pretty darn good, but nowhere near great.
If he continues to have the K rates he had this year in the majors, then he is screwed. The only major leaguers with K rates over 30% the last 3 years combined are Dunn, Howard, Cust, Reynolds, Pena, and Thome. Their batting averages are in the .240s, .250s. They get away with that because they mostly walk at a 16% or higher rate while slugging at a .260+ ISOP clip. Schafer ain’t gonna be a Dunn, Howard, Cust, Reynolds, Pena or Thome kind of slugger, so he can’t keep King like he was this year in the majors.
Saying he’s gonna be better offensively than McLouth likely ain’t true. McLouth has hit .265/.353/.467/.820 with a 12% walk rate, and a .202 ISOP the last 3 seasons combined. With his K rates in the minors, Schafer is likely destined to be a .260 something hitter in the majors just like McLouth, and he’ll likely walk about the same, and have the same ISOP, and have the same AVG/OBP/SLG as McLouth.
Maybe Schafer will walk more though, and be more like a Nick Swisher with a better glove, arm, and speed. Swisher has hit .244/.362/.454/.817 with a 25% K rate, 15% walk rate, and .211 ISOP. Swisher gets to the results a little bit differently than McLouth, but the results are the same nevertheless. Unless he drops the K rates, Schafer will likely never be a superstar, but maybe only a solid star like Swisher, McLouth, Bay, Kemp, Laroche, Willingham, Soriano, etc.
But who knows? Maybe he’ll be the Sizemore clone everyone hopes he’ll be. That would be great. Sizemore has a 22% K rate in the majors, but Sizemore also had a significantly lower K rate in the minors than Schafer has had, 16% for Sizemore as compared to Schafer’s 25%.
Braveheart
October 22nd, 2009
7:38 pm
But, anyways, here’s the link to the leaderboard of the guys with the highest K rates the last 3 years combined
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2009&month=12
FWIW, I love the guys with the rates between 21 and 23%: Arod, Braun, Fielder, Sizemore, Manny, Wright, Drew, Blake, Rowand, Granderson, Youk, Adrian Gonzalez. If Schafer gets those K rates down there, he’d maybe find himself in great company. The good news is that is where he had his K rates in his great 2007 season in Rome and Myrtle Beach. I’m hoping for the best for Schafer, but those K rates in both the majors and minors are very troubling.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
7:41 pm
Braveheart -
You’re extrapolating. Can’t do that. Schafer has been young and overmatched at every level he’s played. Scouts don’t seem to think he’ll continue to strike out as frequently, which is what’s important. What will happen is both more important and disjoint from what has happened.
Jay212033
October 22nd, 2009
7:43 pm
Dave, Wren and company was down in Orlando this past weekend watching the players in instructs, were their any players that stood out to them, that they mentioned by name?
Random
October 22nd, 2009
7:45 pm
Bay Area Steve (October 19th, 2009 4:49 pm): “Although, I’m not a big KK fan. Perhaps I just want to see him traded so I can finally catch a Random mistake.”
Sorry, sport — all mine are deliberate.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
7:46 pm
Saying he’s gonna be better offensively than McLouth likely ain’t true. McLouth has hit .265/.353/.467/.820 with a 12% walk rate, and a .202 ISOP the last 3 seasons combined
He did this with an 80% platoon advantage in 2007 and 2 extremely BABIP-lucky months at the start of 2008. Since then? He’s hit .256/.343/.436/.779 (.180 ISO, 10.3% BB rate).
CB
October 22nd, 2009
7:47 pm
Braveheart,good posts. It is also important that we understand the difference in the quality of the prospects that we build up. Heyward strikes out less than 14% of plate appearances with a .318 career avg. Schafer is a good prospect with possibilities,Heyward is a superstar in the making.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
8:00 pm
Hey theres a good 6 page Q&A with Chipper in the new chop talk, he’s very candid, like always, about his 09 season and Bobby’s replacement and the future of the team. Very wide ranging interview. I, of course, loved (most of) it.
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
8:01 pm
I wonder if I will be getting my 8th “final issue” of Chop Talk- I’d like to see the Chipper interview
nolie
October 22nd, 2009
8:07 pm
I’ve said several times that i think Schafer will be in the McLouth mold as a hitter(.I’m not even totally sold on him doing quite that well, but it’s a distinct possibility), and a better defensive CFer. Not likely to approach 30 dingers though even best case development.
Supes
October 22nd, 2009
8:14 pm
Thanks for that award info DOB, I hope Hanson can win that award!
Not sure if this bit of info was mentioned earlier, and not sure if you can “read into it” for Cy Young award….but Tim L. “the Freak” won Sporting News NL Pitcher of the Year. Ahead of Carpenter and Wainright.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
8:15 pm
cabravesfan I wonder if I will be getting my 8th “final issue” of Chop Talk
6 page interview, eh? Dang…haven’t gotten my October issue yet (well, other than the one about the Fillies winning the LCS). Was just thinking today that it should be coming soon, though.
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
8:16 pm
McFann-
I haven’t paid for it in almost a year…but they still keep sending it to me (not that I am complaining…)
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
8:26 pm
It can. We beat Tebow in ‘07….
I loved it when the whole UGA sideline ran onto the field to celebrate after one of the td’s that year. Funny stuff.
Although it came back to bite them last year.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
8:31 pm
Why do I get the feeling the Dodgers are about to become the Raiders of baseball?
Yay! I wouldn’t mind that at all.
I hope Torre or whoever the manager is after him doesn’t physically assault his coaches though. A la Mr. Cable.
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
8:34 pm
Soph-
That might be the only thing that keeps them from becoming Raiders: MLB
(but you never know…)
JJ
October 22nd, 2009
8:35 pm
Is it just me or is Shane Victorino the biggest piece of crap.
On almost every other team, he’d suck. He makes just enough good plays to warrant being in the lineup. In high school, the guy probably lived for Gym class and would probably celebrate and rub it in if he won at dodge ball because the only player on the opposing team left was an overweight uncoordinated girl.
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
8:36 pm
And Soph? You need to work the word “allegedly” into that comment- there will be no charges against the gentlemanly Mr. Cable (she says, attempting and failing to type that without laughing)
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
8:40 pm
http://www.sporcle.com/games/akrubin/baseball_stats
I’ve got 14 so far LOL. Still got 3 minutes left, but I’m pretty clueless. Just typing in random writers at this point.
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
8:41 pm
VININGS JIM:
W&M sucks. RICHMOND rules.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
October 22nd, 2009
8:43 pm
Enter your comments here
Eric In Albany N.Y.
October 22nd, 2009
8:43 pm
oops
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
8:45 pm
They’ve sent you 8 “final” issues? That twit. I’ve subscribed for years and I noticed I didn’t get one month this summer that LT had referenced something about so I emailed them and my subscription had lapsed between the time that month’s issue went out and a few days later when they got my check. If it weren’t so long I would scan it for the FB group but it is…and I’m lazy about crap like that. One or two pages, sure. 6? Uh no.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
8:46 pm
McFann – this is the november issue. If you don’t have your Oct by now I’m afraid your subscription may have expired. lol
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
8:49 pm
I saw that cab! No charges filed? Seriously? The Raiders are a joke.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
9:02 pm
cabravesfan I haven’t paid for it in almost a year…but they still keep sending it to me
RHR–
LOL! I meant November, just typed the wrong thing…
I’m really sorry, I do that sometimes. 
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
9:05 pm
I loved it when the whole UGA sideline ran onto the field to celebrate after one of the td’s that year. Funny stuff.
The best part was big Trinton Sturdivant doing a lil shuffle and wagging his finger.
Cubs Potential Offseason Targets: Kelly Johnson | myMLB - Dodgers
October 22nd, 2009
9:07 pm
[...] Braves GM Frank Wren came out today and said Martin Prado will pretty much go into 2010 as the their starting second basemen which leaves Kelly Johnson as prime trade bait. It doesn’t mean the Braves have to move him, but he’s certainly going to be available for the right price, which can’t be a whole lot for a guy with a .692 OPS last year. He’s also arbitration eligible and coming off a 2.85M payday in 2009, so it’s very possible – let’s go ahead and call it likely – that he’ll just end up being non-tendered if he’s not traded before December 12th. [...]
Paul Lentz
October 22nd, 2009
9:13 pm
I was just looking at Derek Lowe’s career stats as a starting pitcher. From 2002-2009, Lowe had seasons where he made 32, 33, 33, 35, 35, 33, 34, and 34 starts. Pretty impressive.
In 2004, he had a similar season for the Red Sox that he had for the Braves this year:
……………………………………2004…………….2009
Starts……………………………..33………………..34..
Innings Pitched……………….183………………195..
Hits………………………………..224………………232..
Walks………………………………71………………..63..
Strikeouts……………………….105………………111..
Runs Allowed…………………..110………………101..
ERA……………………………..(5.42)……………(4.67).
Record…………………………14-12……………15-10..
Both seasons werent Lowe’s best. Still he contributed by staying healthy and eating a lot of innings as a starting pitcher in both seasons.
After the 2004 season, Lowe rebounded and had 4 straight seasons with the Dodgers where he had ERA’s of 3.61, 3.63, 3.88, and 3.24 before signing with the Braves as a free agent last year.
The point is that Derek Lowe has PROVEN that he can rebound from a statistically poor season. He’s healthy and has the ability to make adjustments. Just look at his career stats.
I see no reason why Lowe cant rebound in 2010 in a similar fashion and give us 3 comparable seasons that he gave the Dodgers. As I stated last night, many of you are underestimating the value of Derek Lowe to a pitching staff. Dumping Derek Lowe and eating part of his contract is simple ignorance.
The same ones b1tching about Derek Lowe this season are quick to give Kelly Johnson the benefit of the doubt and point out that the “real Kelly” is the one who hit well in 2007 and 2008. Which is more impressive: Derek Lowe from 2002-2008? Or Kelly Johnson from 2007-2008? No comparison.
I’d rather put my money on Derek Lowe rebounding in 2010……than on Kelly Johnson. I’ll take the track record of a starting pitcher who stays healthy and has a track record for coming up big in big-time playoff games……….over a streaky hitter like Kelly Johnson.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
9:25 pm
Joe Poz does it again. his piece on Joe Pa in SI is superb.
(Its reading night at my house, can you tell?)
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
9:25 pm
Lowe rebounds and posts an ERA around 3.85 next year. That’s what the smart money is on.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
9:27 pm
PWH im not one who thinks mclouth is better than he really is, I just think its premature to say mclouth OPSing in the mid .700s is “really who he is”. He is entering his prime and has a history of some pretty good numbers. Maybe he wont OPS in the .800s ever again, I don’t know. But neither do you, and neither does anyone. i don’t think there is evidence to tell you he wont.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
9:29 pm
lentz, you could be right about lowe. he is older now than he was when he made that last rebound, though. im not sure if that will matter for him or not.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
9:29 pm
The same ones b1tching about Derek Lowe this season are quick to give Kelly Johnson the benefit of the doubt and point out that the “real Kelly” is the one who hit well in 2007 and 2008
Oh really Lentz? Do you keep a tally, or just making assumptions like you “love” to do?
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
9:29 pm
I’ve liked the Angels’ catching corps during the playoffs.
They’ve goes nothing on ours, of course, but they’re not bad.
Paul Lentz
October 22nd, 2009
9:29 pm
P. W. Hjort……….I cant believe it. You agree with my assessment on Derek Lowe rebounding in 2010. Stop the presses.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
9:31 pm
Btw, don’t even think I read all that BS from Lentz. I just scrolled down to the bottom of the page, started reading a paragraph, and read that sentence with “real Kelly” in quotation marks. Knew the source of the BS right then & there.
Paul Lentz
October 22nd, 2009
9:32 pm
DAP. Sure, Lowe is 37 years old. However, he has been healthy his whole career. He takes care of his body. I see no reason why he cant rebound. Again, his body of work shows that he can rebound from a sub-par season.
The Braves dont need Derek Lowe to dominate in 2010. Just go a little deeper in games and not give up as many base runners, which leads to more runs allowed.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
9:33 pm
cabraves,
From the lovely atmosphere the fans at Dodger Stadium provide, I thought the Dodgers were already the Raiders of baseball….
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
9:38 pm
I agree with your conclusion, yes. But it’s a conclusion I’ve come to on my own after studying his BABIP (2nd in the league, .333).
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
9:39 pm
i don’t think there is evidence to tell you he wont.
There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that what we’ve seen in the last 10 months is what he really is. Plenty.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
9:39 pm
Lentz,
I don’t have ADD. In fact, I read the essays that are at times Braveheart’s posts, and (is this where I use caps? i don’t know, you tell me) ALWAYS are N8’s “posts.”
Your stuff is just utterly annoying. Please do us all a favor and change the way in which you deliver your message.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
9:41 pm
That’s not to say he won’t ever OPS over .800. Players’ OPS fluctuates a great deal more than their fundamental skills. But I’ll just say this, his luck-removed OPS (use PrOPS or BABIP corrections or whatever) will probably be in the .770-.790 range for the next few years and slowly decline thereafter.
Cubs Potential Offseason Targets: Kelly Johnson | myMLB - Angels
October 22nd, 2009
9:43 pm
[...] Braves GM Frank Wren came out today and said Martin Prado will pretty much go into 2010 as the their starting second basemen which leaves Kelly Johnson as prime trade bait. It doesn’t mean the Braves have to move him, but he’s certainly going to be available for the right price, which can’t be a whole lot for a guy with a .692 OPS last year. He’s also arbitration eligible and coming off a 2.85M payday in 2009, so it’s very possible – let’s go ahead and call it likely – that he’ll just end up being non-tendered if he’s not traded before December 12th. [...]
Paul Lentz
October 22nd, 2009
9:48 pm
The are only 2 realistic scenerios that I see the Braves re-signing Adam LaRoche under:
1. If the Braves seriously view Freddie Freeman as the 1st baseman of the future, then signing LaRoche to anyone more than a 1 year contract would be foolish from an economic standpoint. Chances are Freddie Freeman will spend the 2010 season in Triple A and be given a chance to win the 2011 opening day first baseman job. In that case, the only way I see the Braves re-signing LaRoche is to a 1 year contract.
2. If the Braves feel that dangling Freddie Freeman in a prospective trade package to improve the offense, then I feel that there is a good chance that the Braves will re-sign LaRoche to a 3 year deal.
I feel that Option 2 is less favorable because the Braves would rather see Freeman develop and give them an affordable, cheap run producer from 2011-2013.
Regardless, the only way I see LaRoche coming back to the Braves in 2010 is on a 1 year contract. Chances are, LaRoche will try and secure a multi-year contact from a team who is willing to meet his demands.
If the Braves dont re-sign LaRoche, then I’ll reserve my right to make any suggestions until after I see who is available in free agency. Teams have exclusive rights to re-sign their own free agents until 15 days after the last game of the World Series. So there is little sense on speculating who the Braves could get until after the free agency period begins.
Wayne in Utah (Member of the Friends of KJ Society)
October 22nd, 2009
9:49 pm
Dense
WOW, you are so frickin smart. You have predicted that Lowe will rebound in 2010. Damn. That thought NEVER came to my mind!!!
But I guess you would probably guarantee that KJ wouldn’t rebound in 2010, huh. Heck no, you are so darned smart, that you just KNOW that he will continue to be a SUCK AZZ BUM.
Did Kelly Johnson get your mama pregnant or something???
You are about the most ignorant sumbeach that I have ever heard tell of in my 54 years.
Wide Right
October 22nd, 2009
9:49 pm
I dont understand how you dont resign LaRoche….he is the component that finally made them great last year. I feel like the moves Wren needs to make are simple and obvious:
-re-sign Hudson for 9MM
-use the $ you save on Hudson towards LaRoche.
-Do away with the red jerseys…make the blue jerseys the sunday home jerseys and then its white for home, grey for away for the remainder of the week. they are the best uniforms in professional sports (the white, grey and blue)…but the red is just depressingly awful.
-try and either trade Lowe or KK for a good to very good OF bat. If not…its McClouth, Diaz and Church or Schafer and the most stacked and arguably best rotation in all of baseball.
-Have Don Sutton replace that guy who asked to be called Boog.
-Pick a sold-out game to be Tom Glavine Appreciation Day and escort out any idiot who boos.
-Keep an eye on Smoltz and think about whether him closing and closing out Bobby Cox’s final season makes sense…it just might after the ASG. I’m not saying this should be done…I am just suggesting he keep an eye on the situation.
Thats it! Honestly…he keeps it that simple and I think we win the pennant.
richbrave
October 22nd, 2009
9:53 pm
DAVE:
Thanks for answering my query about MOYLAN as a closer.
Wayne in Utah (Member of the Friends of KJ Society)
October 22nd, 2009
9:53 pm
Yeah, doing away with the red jerseys is the trick. Skip the righthanded corner outfielder, just scrap the red jerseys, and we will be OK.
Wayne in Utah (Member of the Friends of KJ Society)
October 22nd, 2009
9:56 pm
FW was being real careful not to tip his hand on anything crucial to 2010. I think the Prado revelation was an obvious choice for sure. I guess we will have to just wait and see for how they go with Huddy, LaRoche, and the closers.
DAP
October 22nd, 2009
9:59 pm
PWH is there evidence other than his last 10 months, and his BABIP?
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:00 pm
LOL, Lentz thinks that because Lowe had a similar season in 2004 as he did this year, that he’s a sure thing to rebound? Gimme a friggin’ break. And then saying his seasons with LA are proof enough that he’ll rebound in 2009? C’mon. It’s one thing to say “career stats,” it’s quite another to say “well, he sucked in 2004 and was great in 2005…wait! 2009 was almost the same as 2004…so he’s bound to be great in 2010!” That’s just bogus reasoning–and that’s why we all think you’re such a douchebag–you beat us over the head with your sometimes correct conclusions that you have reached in astoundingly erroneous fashions, and then parade yourself as some sort of messiah for doing so.
Your conclusion is the probable outcome next year, I think, but how you got there? Yeesh.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:01 pm
You know what, I just read all of BAS’s stuff on Lentz yesterday.
He’s right. It’s pure comedy…unadulterated. Even if the whisky did bring out a “I hate Lentz” and maybe even a douche reference, if I’m not mistaken, in the wee hours of the morning. BAS hates that alcohol is bad for you. I hate that sometimes it exposes truth.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:02 pm
Lentz,
Can you please elaborate on your 9:48?
Wayne in Utah (Member of the Friends of KJ Society)
October 22nd, 2009
10:08 pm
Bobby’s Cox
per your 10:02pm, LOL!!!
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
10:09 pm
Watch this folks. This is why my Yankees……are The Yankees.
Sax jacked…………… 1 out…………..Johnny Damon baby!
Take note.
Paul Lentz
October 22nd, 2009
10:09 pm
Wanda from Utah……….Kelly Johnson will not be given a chance to rebound for the Braves in 2010. It’s cost prohibited to pay a back-up utility second baseman $3.5 or $4 mil. If you think that Kelly Johnson will accept a 2010 contract at 80% of his 2009 salary….especially given the fact that he can easily be awarded $3.5 or even $4 mil by an arbitrator……..then you are out of your mind. And if you think that Frank Wren would risk having to pay a back-up second baseman coming off an AWFUL 2009 season…then you are again out of your mind.
As I said last night……if Kelly Johnson really feels that 2009 was a fluke and that he can be an above average starting second baseman……then he would be a fool to sign a 2010 contract with the Braves at 80% of his 2009 salary. He’d be better off signing with a team who will give him a chance to win a starting job in Spring Training.
However, I feel that if the Braves were foolish enough to offer him a contract at 80% of his 2009 salary…..then he would be a fool not to accept it…..because I dont feel that Kelly Johnson will ever be a productive Major League second baseman. Major League Baseball pitching has made adjustments to his hitting that Kelly simply isnt able to counter.
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
10:09 pm
OK, he flied out.
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
10:10 pm
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
10:13 pm
Tex wakes up!!!!!!!!
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
10:13 pm
Mixxo, this ain’t a Yankees blog. Take note.
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:15 pm
STUPID! You idiot! What’d ya throw it down the friggin’ MIDDLE for??
Poor Lackey…he wanted to finish that, too. What a bum rap.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
10:15 pm
NICE Yanks!!
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:16 pm
AAAAAAAA!! Gosh, I hate the Yankees…
RHR–
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:16 pm
Mixxo,
Are you kidding me? You’re a Yankee fan?
If the Yanks do end up taking the series, I have no option but to root for the Phillies….and that’s saying a lot.
Paul Lentz
October 22nd, 2009
10:16 pm
Stephanie from Ohio……..It is not surprising that my postings go “way above your head”. For you not to understand the reasoning of how a player has shown over his career that he can rebound from an “off season”……..shows that you arent capable of exercising any reason.
Baseball is a sport of making adjustments. I’m sure that for whatever reason, MLB hitters made adjustments to Lowe’s pitching in 2004 that resulted in him having a tough year. However, his subsequent 4 following seasons showed that Lowe is capable of making his own adjustments to MLB hitters that resulted in big success for him.
Other than being a few years older, what has changed for Derek Lowe from 204? He is still healthy, has not experienced any arm problems, takes care of his body, still has velocity and movement on his pitches, still makes every start and eats a lot of innings.
If you cant understand that, then there is no reasoning with you.
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
10:18 pm
RHR –
Looks like someone’s got their cackles up.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m46/mixineer/smileys/569f886f.gif
Tie ballgame btw.
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:18 pm
Great article over at Squawking Baseball about the Wilpon/Madoff fiasco (this one’s for you, Mets troll!):
“First off, ignore all the the articles you’re reading today saying that Fred Wilpon actually made money from their relationship with Bernie Madoff. Technically, he did — records show that the family deposited a total of $523 million, and withdrew $571. So leaving it at that, they actually turned a $48 million profit.
But that’s nonsense. Imagine if you had a significant portion of your life savings in a bank, and the bank called you one day and said it was all gone. Think about what that would do to your day-to-day spending, your retirement, etc. Wilpon is lucky to have taken out as much as he did, but it’s still more than likely that he lost a ton here.
So the question remains, how much? This filing that came out could actually give us some hints. I’m not sure what Madoff charged in fees, but let’s say it was 2 and 20 (2% of assets, 20% of gains). Let’s try to come up with a high-end estimate. We’ll also assume 12% returns every year, which is what Madoff was so famous for faux-delivering. If Wilpon put his money in twenty years ago, and left it in until the day before Madoff was arrested, he would have had $2.26 billion invested. Subtract the $571M that we know he withdrew, and you get $1.69 billion. Think of this as an absolute cap; it would have been almost impossible for Wilpon to have lost more than that number.
Now let’s come up with an absolute low-end figure. Assume Wilpon put the money in ten years ago, and the returns were only 10% per year. We’ll also assume to withdrew the $571 million equally over that ten-year period. In that case, he would have lost about $170 million.
If we split the difference, we get about $900 million. The original press reports had it at about $700 million, so I’m willing to guess it’s somewhere between those numbers.
Whatever the number, it’s a devastating loss, and it’s a pretty good bet that the Mets now account for a significant majority of Wilpon’s net worth. And the fact that he made a paper profit off of it may end up costing him even more money, since part of those “earnings” will likely be clawed back and spread around to the other victims. Whether he’ll eventually have to sell part of the team is anybody’s guess. But it definitely wouldn’t shock me.”
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:19 pm
The only bright side about that rally is that it p!sses off Lackey. Can’t stand Lackey. Would rather have Yunel x 10 than one of Lackey’s attitude. Dude just irritates me. Reminds me a guy I played ball with one year.
How effective is Jepsen going to be pitching so often in this series?
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
10:20 pm
WOW…..meltdown, Angels
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:20 pm
Not effective.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
10:20 pm
I’ll take it
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:20 pm
It is not surprising that my postings go “way above your head”.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess…
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
10:21 pm
Bobby’s Cox -
Nah man, I’m a Braves fan…and a baseball fan……………”good” baseball.
I’m rooting for the Phillies too in the Series.
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
10:23 pm
Supes, I would’ve voted for Lincecum. I don’t know if he’ll win the Cy; it’s too close to call. But he should, in my opinion.
Oh, and Las Palmeras, the Cuban joint on 5th St. here in Atlanta, is really good. Tonight was first time I went. Had pork BBQ sandwich on Cuban bread. Very tasty.
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
10:25 pm
Bobby’s Cox –
You could plainly read Lackey’s lips when Scioscia yanked him.
“You shi**in’ me? This game is mine……!”
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:26 pm
Oh, the Mets are stupid:
Eddie (Milwaukee)
What was Steve Phillips thinking? Almost trading a 19 year old David Wright for Jose Cruz Jr.? Ridiculous.
Klaw (1:42 PM)
I’ve been asked about that trade rumor for three years but never answered while Ricciardi was still GM. The offer was made, though; I was there when the call came in. It was the first time I’d heard of Wright, since I wasn’t with Toronto in 2001 nor had I followed the draft when Wright was in it. JP’s reaction was, “I’m not trading a major league player for some guy in the Sally League.” And that was pretty much that. We had a chance to trade Cruz after that for Rafael Soriano, but JP refused to do it unless Seattle included Clint Nageotte, who, at the time, was a pretty hot prospect. It’s weird; I can’t remember some things that happened last week but I remember those conversations (over seven years ago now) like they just took place.
Honorable mention stupid of the day? Dodgers owner Frank McCourt, for firing his (soon to be) ex-wife Jamie from her position of team CEO. Congrats Frank, you just made things go from bad to worse!
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
10:28 pm
Lentz, more posts like the one you had to B.C. and you’ll be gone, my man. You’ve been warned.
benchwarmer
October 22nd, 2009
10:29 pm
Mays had better athletic talent than A. Jones and he was something that Andruw never was, THE SMARTEST BASEBALL PLAYER EVER!
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:30 pm
What the hell happened to the Angels? I stepped away for like 10-15 minutes tops to take a shower and they blow the lead?
McFann Ô
October 22nd, 2009
10:32 pm
Mathis just keeps it comin’…
Didn’t hit much in the regular season, but here, dang…
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:32 pm
By the way, this was hours ago but the ump blew another call at first. Damon was safe and they called him out.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
10:32 pm
and they blow the lead?
Suckers….
oh, but it’s up to -23 now
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:34 pm
oh, but it’s up to -23 now
I’m proud to say I contributed to that. But, that was on my work computer – I can vote one more time on this computer so it’ll be -24 shortly.
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
10:36 pm
I can’t take this anymore. I’m breaking my silence…
When the F*** did Mark Teixeira EVER do anything like that for us? What a f***ing phony.
Of course the ball doesn’t bounce over the fence. It never bounces over the fence for the Yankees. When has the ball ever not bounced their way? When have they ever been the victim of so many bad calls? Or one.
They might not have even won a single World Series in the ’90s if Derek Jeter’s “homerun” been overuled due to interference. Maybe they lose the series and Steinbrenner fires Joe Torre. But no, they get away with it.
F***ing Derek Jeter acts like the edge of the dugout is his own little party patio. I’ve never seen anybody prance around on the dirt in front of the dugout like Derek Jeter. I’ve never seen anybody do that. It’s like he’s on the deck of a cruise ship. Wait for it… yep, a gay cruise ship.
I couldn’t help myself.
I hope their f***ing plane crashes.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:36 pm
Wow, my vote made it -26. You’re catching up to that -57 vent at the bottom.
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:37 pm
Mitchell–man, chill out, or you’re going to burst a blood vessel or something.
On a side note, Jeter irks me, too…
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
10:38 pm
DAP,
Are you looking for empirical evidence or opinions of scouts/experts? Either way, yes.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:40 pm
Mixxo,
Glad to hear you are actually a Braves fan. You had me worried. Yeah I saw the stuff Lackey pulled on the mound, right after he showed up the ump for the umpteenth time this year/in his career. They say he’s got that competitive fire, but it’s a little pathetic IMO…especially when you have watch it 35+ times a year here on the west coast.
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
10:40 pm
nolie–even if Schafer ends up as a similar offensive player to McLouth (not a bad comp), I think he’ll always walk a bit more than Nate and he’ll have the added advantage of being (hopefully) a top-tier defender. We’ve already seen that he’s already got the better throwing arm by a wide margin.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:43 pm
That 1-1 pitch to Vlad is his one weakness.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:45 pm
Followed by a 1-2 fastball right down the middle. Ouch.
Good. Let the series continue and the Yankess pen get a little more used before the WS. Philly will need that.
Vinings Jim
October 22nd, 2009
10:47 pm
Soph – I suggest you stick with the game the rest of the way…
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
10:48 pm
My goodness
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:49 pm
VJ – I just saw the Guerrero’s single to tie it!
Ha ha, Mixxo.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:50 pm
Oh, but now I see they took the lead – I missed that.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
10:50 pm
After hating on Lackey, gotta give it up for one Angel I love watching play…and that’s Tori Hunter. That’s one heck of a ballplayer.
Mitchell, way to let it out man. Bet that felt good. I’m gonna go scream in a pillow…brb.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:52 pm
I like Torii Hunter too. Love watching him in the outfield – he can track down anything.
mikemangan
October 22nd, 2009
10:53 pm
Leonard Cohen still is fantastic His signature song Hallelujah could be the Braves 2010 theme song or Maybe the late Tim Hardin,s for Bobby Cox Swan song year How Can we Hang On To a dream.I am still pushing the money swap of Derek Lowe for Vernon wells.The Jays can then trade either Lowe or Roy Halladay for any number of players who would help our neighbors to the north Take Off(Bob and Doug McKenzie reference)Wells then moves into left with McClouth with the rookie Heyward sharing your right field area withMatt Diaz.Resign Laroche to a three year deal with mutual trade buyout option while Freddie feelgood and his Funky little 5 piece band(Ray stevens Georgia homeboy reference)Freddie freeman works on his skills in Pearl and then Gwinette,Prado continues to hit and get better at second also he can back up for the brittle chipper Jones at Third Escobar at short was my 2009 team MVP and should be better in 2010,backup infielder is Infante,behind the dish McCann with Ross who is signed thru next season as backup.Sammons goes back to gwinette as insurance as his option are closer to running out.Lets talk pitchig with an H.Ross Perot reference heres the deal resign Huddy to a three year hometown discount,Hanson,Vasquez.and Kwakami as your starters with surprise Mike Minor who starts the season in Pearl then unto Gwinette and welcome to atlanta by mid season .Middle relief can be by some new journeyman veteran affordable free agents with Moylan setting up either or neither Soriano or Gonzalez whichever may be resigned or possibly Medlin closing or heres an outlandish idea Soria the Kansas city closer comes to the Braves for Medlin Kelley Johnson and Minor league powerhouse and whiff king Cody Johnson with his Dave Kingman power.Bobby chases the Philles all season long and we either win the division or the wildcard as Bobby finishes the 2010 Swan song tour and the Braves name Ned yost as the 2011 mgr.Aerosmith sings Dream On in the background or the classic sixties top 40 songs that noboby plays anymore in Atlanta radio Johnny Burnettes Dreamin or Roy Orbision sings Dream baby as bobby heads home to his farm.Oh did I forget to mention Greg Norton?sign a inexpensive journeyman bench player or keep BrooksConrad and let Bobby Rydell sing forget him as Norton heads elsewhere.Anymore song title or lets go back to Leonard Cohen…
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
10:53 pm
Heckuva dang ballgame isn’t it?
benchwarmer
October 22nd, 2009
10:53 pm
Yes Tori Hunter is very good. For all you Andruw Jones fans out there, Tori Hunter is what a real center fielder looks like.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:54 pm
Hjort – I heard there was a chemical spill at Tech today.
Wayne in Utah (Member of the Friends of KJ Society)
October 22nd, 2009
10:56 pm
Pauline Dense (Clever, huh. I just thought I would call you a girls name. How unique of me to do that original idea!)
For the most part, most of what you stated about KJ was correct, except for one thing that I thought such a smart (azz) guy like yourself would know, but maybe you aren’t as smart as you think, huh?
If KJ is NOT offered arbitration, and is released, he becomes a free agent. He will NOT get a chance to go to arbitration with another club, you idiot, because he will be a free agent, and then he can be offered minimum salary if a club wants to offer that to him. Heck, somebody could even offer him a minor league contract.
If he is non-tendered, and not picked up quickly by another club, he will NOT get arb money, dumsheeyt!
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
10:56 pm
I hope the Yankees do win this game.
I can’t wait to see them play a real team. I wouldn’t be surprised if the get swept by the Phillies.
The World Series is their’s as far as I’m concerned. They could beat both of these teams combined.
They’re the best team in baseball. I have no problem finishing second to them. Oh wait, we finished third… behind the Marlins… cause we suck. Cause we have a terrible manager.
In fairness, Mike Socia just made Bobby Cox look like a freaking genius. Bobby probably would have done the same thing, taking Lacky out. He probably would have taken him out after five.
Wow, this is turning into kind of an amazing game. Why couldn’t we do this when the Yankees scored six runs on us? What was the big deal about the Leyritz homerun? The game wasn’t over. He only tied it. Why couldn’t we just take back the lead? How hard would that have been? Pretty hard I guess.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
10:56 pm
I mean, my vent wasn’t that bad. That’s ridiculous
benchwarmer
October 22nd, 2009
10:56 pm
mike mangan, please make some paragraphs. My eyes are crossing.
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
10:57 pm
Jesus Christ, Mitchell. There’s medication for that, you know.
bravefaninok
October 22nd, 2009
10:57 pm
go ANGELS…..I hate the skankies and the phillies..
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
10:58 pm
oh that reminds me, i gotta go read jeffrey’s vent.
I mean, who vents in the offseason? What the hell are you venting about? I never even read the vents in the offseason, I figured it was closed or something.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
10:58 pm
No, yours wasn’t that bad, jeffrey. I have to say the one that’s in last place is just stupid. There’s some really bad ones that are near the top too.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
10:58 pm
Steve from OH,
Question of the day: Who is the more incompetent GM, Steve Phillips for making that proposal or J.P. Ricciardi for rejecting it?
Wayne in Utah (Member of the Friends of KJ Society)
October 22nd, 2009
10:59 pm
mike mangan
I tried to check out your post, but with no paragraph breaks, it was so darned hard to read. If you want your comments read, use those paragraphs, my friend.
Wayne in Utah (Member of the Friends of KJ Society)
October 22nd, 2009
11:00 pm
Actually, Tori Hunter looks like AJ looked before he lost his girlish figure…….or gave in to the quarter pounder with cheese temptation.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
11:01 pm
Soph,
I hadn’t heard, but looks like you’re correct:
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/21398265/detail.html
There’s been at least one incident like this every year I’ve been at Tech. It’s gotten kind of routine, actually.
Freshmen Chemistry labs are in the basement of the College of Computing building. I’m sure it was a freshmen or incompetent TA just mixing the wrong thing or spilling something.
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
11:03 pm
That may be the mother of all questions, PWH…
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
11:03 pm
Soph,
Looks like you’re correct:
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/21398265/detail.html
I hadn’t heard about it until you mentioned it just now.
There’s been at least one incident like this one pretty much every semester I’ve been at Tech. It’s gotten kind of routine, as bad as that sounds.
Anyway, the Freshmen Chem labs are in the basement of the College of Computing building, so I’m sure they’re the culprit.
tiger297
October 22nd, 2009
11:04 pm
I thought the goal was to push it to the bottom…I’ve pushed it down 5 times myself
RHR
October 22nd, 2009
11:05 pm
Discipline at the plate and IN THE DUGOUT.
Huh? What does that even mean?
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
11:06 pm
Okay I’ve been watching this game maybe 25 minutes? And I’ve seen both teams’ pitchers get lit up consistently
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:06 pm
Discipline at the plate and IN THE DUGOUT.
I don’t get it. Is it a vent?
BTW, jeffrey’s vent is here – http://projects.ajc.com/vent/sports/2009/10/22/#663143
Second from the bottom.
Wayne in Utah (Member of the Friends of KJ Society)
October 22nd, 2009
11:07 pm
As much as I dislike the Yankees, the move to get Mo up now is a smart one. Why wait until it is too late.
Go Angels…..
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
11:07 pm
Soph,
Yeah, you’re correct. There’s been at least one incident like that one every semester I’ve been at Tech. As bad as this sounds, it’s grown routine hearing about them.
The College of Computing houses the freshmen chemistry labs, so I’m sure they’re the culprit.
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
11:08 pm
Just for the record, Y’all, there are 2 i’s in Torii
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
11:09 pm
Second from the bottom.
Oh you’re great.
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:10 pm
If the Yankees win it, then I won’t know who to pull for……. Is it too late for the Yankees to trade for Kelly Johnson, and add him to the post season roster?????
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:11 pm
Oh you’re great.
Well, that was the easiest way to describe it so she could find it quickly. It’s not my fault. At least it’s not dead last.
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:12 pm
cbf
OOPS! As much as I like Hunter, who names their kid Torii???
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
11:12 pm
Ah, Chone Figgins… the guy who was tired of losing in the first round of the playoffs every year like the Braves.
That pretty much says it all, doesn’t it?
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
11:14 pm
Who is that out there, Soriano?
Alfonso, not Rafael.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:14 pm
But, Wayne – that’s why his momma spelled it all cool with two i’s. Torii.
Kelly’s mom should’ve spelled his name with two i’s too. Kellii.
Or, maybe not.
nfieldr
October 22nd, 2009
11:16 pm
Wayne in Utah said:
If the Yankees win it, then I won’t know who to pull for……. Is it too late for the Yankees to trade for Kelly Johnson, and add him to the post season roster?????
If the Yankees win it (and of course I think that they will), then baseball season is over for me. *sigh*
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:16 pm
Soph
Thinking about changing my name to Waynii! Whaddya think?
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
11:16 pm
Soph,
At least KJ’s mom didn’t spell it Kellieeeeeeeeeeeee.
That would take away the excitement of Marteeeeeeeeeeen!
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
11:16 pm
I thought the goal was to push it to the bottom
lol, I really didn’t mean to make that big a deal about it. I was just surprised to get home and see it at -13(ish)
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:17 pm
nfieldr
I will watch the games….begrudgingly though.
Bravo Nam
October 22nd, 2009
11:18 pm
Love your work, DOB. Still following you and the Bravos from SE Asia.
jeffrii dii
October 22nd, 2009
11:18 pm
Big inning here
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:19 pm
Waynii – hmmm, it might catch on. Would you pronounce it Wayne-eeee though?
Steve from OH
October 22nd, 2009
11:20 pm
Hey! Welcome back, Bravo Nam!
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:20 pm
Bobby’s -
See, that’s why you’re my BFF. You’re the only one that understands my infatuation with saying his name like that – marteeeeeeeeeen.
keylargo
October 22nd, 2009
11:21 pm
.because I dont feel that Kelly Johnson will ever be a productive Major League second baseman. Major League Baseball pitching has made adjustments to his hitting that Kelly simply isnt able to counter. Lentz
Kelly Johnson after the All Star break. Yeah, Lentz, the league has him figured out.
BA .261 OBP.358 SLG.493 OPS.851
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:21 pm
Oh, so now we’re all adding 2 i’s at the end of our names?
Sophii
That could actually work. Take off the e and add another i. Walah. Or, however you spell it.
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:22 pm
Actually, I like the Dwyane Wade way of spelling it best. Wyane (pronounced wy-yan-ee)
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
11:22 pm
Oh Soph,
If only you knew my infatuation with the man….I get goosebumps when I see you type it.
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
11:23 pm
What is this guy doing?
Do not walk him.
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
11:24 pm
That was a strike.
Why not call it? It was close enough.
cabravesfan
October 22nd, 2009
11:25 pm
Wayne-
Torii was named after a Japanese Shinto shrine- that is the proper spelling…
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:25 pm
Soph
Your “Walah” version of voila, could be another pre-madonna type word. Would be a crime shame if it doesn’t catch on…..
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:25 pm
Bobby’s, I’m looking forward to saying it for a whole entire season! And, annoying the crap out of jeffrey since he doesn’t like him.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
11:25 pm
Mitchell,
Fuentes likes to make things interesting, or just blow the game at times. He likes to get my dad’s heart rate up at his feeble age. If the old man doesn’t pick up his phone tomorrow, I’m filing manslaughter charges against Fuentes.
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
11:26 pm
Give me a break.
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:26 pm
Nothing like making it exciting, huh Fuentes!
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:26 pm
lol Wayne, I’d love to take credit but someone else actually said it first a few months ago and RHR pointed it out. So, I’ve been spelling it that way since then.
Crime shame I didn’t think of it first…
bravefaninok
October 22nd, 2009
11:27 pm
Damn….Cmon Angels are trying to give this game away!
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
11:27 pm
Soph,
Why wait? Did you read Wren’s comments DOB posted on the blog? Marteeeeeeeeeen!
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
11:28 pm
Swisher’s gettin’ owned this AB
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:29 pm
cabravesfan
No kidding?? I just thought it was one of those new fangled ways of spelling a name. Kinda like Dwyane.
Bravo Nam
October 22nd, 2009
11:29 pm
Steve from OH
Thanks Steve…I never left…just been very quiet. Bit of a downer having the Bravos bow out the way they did after making an exciting late run. Still enjoy reading everyone’s comments…blog still has a lot of good dudes despite some numbskulls!
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
11:30 pm
How did he not swing at that?
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:30 pm
If they tie this one up, I’m going to bed early…..screw it.
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
11:31 pm
WTF
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:32 pm
Is Fuentes related to Don “Full Pack” Stanhouse? See ya in NYC.
jeffrii dii
October 22nd, 2009
11:32 pm
I stayed up because I didn’t want to miss a celebration if it occurred tonight. Thank you, Angels for keeping me up later
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
11:33 pm
We want to win it at home anyway.
bravefaninok
October 22nd, 2009
11:34 pm
Go Angels.
Mitchell
October 22nd, 2009
11:34 pm
That was an amazing comeback by the Angels.
John Lacky sounds like a mongoloid. That’s a technical term.
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
11:34 pm
Mixxo,
Are you a Yankees fan?
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:35 pm
Bobby’s – Oh, I read his comments and I was saying Marteeeeeen in my head all day!
jeffrey – too many i’s in your name. Kinda hurts my eyes.
Mixxo
October 22nd, 2009
11:36 pm
P. W. Hjort –
Just in the Jr. circuit.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
11:39 pm
John Lacky sounds like a mongoloid. That’s a technical term
I wonder how Lackey would sound through a Vocoder.
jeffrii dii
October 22nd, 2009
11:42 pm
jeffrey – too many i’s in your name. Kinda hurts my eyes.
Was that supposed to be a pun?
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
11:42 pm
Mixxo -
Just in the Jr. circuit.
Me too! Don’t tell anyone…
P. W. Hjort
October 22nd, 2009
11:43 pm
Jeff Lyman just allowed another home run. The AFL has been a bit of a disaster for him so far.
Bobby's Cox
October 22nd, 2009
11:43 pm
Soph,
Don’t be selfish!
Mixxo, good stuff at 11:33.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:43 pm
No, it wasn’t but hey that was pretty clever. I really didn’t do that on purpose. The i’s are making me squint.
keylargo
October 22nd, 2009
11:44 pm
I just want to put “lady” in there….Jeffrii “Lady” Dii…..but then you’d be dead.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:45 pm
We want to win it at home anyway.
Oh, Mixxo…
Mixxo, Mixxo, Mixxo. :facepalm:
keylargo
October 22nd, 2009
11:46 pm
Or Princess would be better……Jeffrii “Princess” Dii
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:47 pm
I like Princess!
keylargo
October 22nd, 2009
11:49 pm
Jeffrey D – Just kidding in case you didn’t know.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
11:50 pm
Fine
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:50 pm
In a previous life, I was a Yankees fan. Loved the Murderer’s Row in 1927! Ruth hit 60 taters, and knocked in 164 runs, but was second to Lou Gehrig, who knocked in only 175 runs.
And to top that off, “Julie” Wera played some third base for them in ‘27….. Not Juliiii, but Julie.
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:52 pm
You didn’t have to change it. Besides, you should’ve added Princess to your name.
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:54 pm
Where is BAS and uga-brave tonight??
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:54 pm
cab -
The Dodgers owner actually did fire his CEO wife! I thought he was just contemplating it.
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 22nd, 2009
11:55 pm
jeffrey At least it’s not Geoffrey…..
David O'Brien
October 22nd, 2009
11:55 pm
Bravo Nam: Great to have you back, man. Where you been? No internet access? Hope all’s well.
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
11:56 pm
I will not be going by Princess. Doctor will be acceptable though
Soph
October 22nd, 2009
11:56 pm
Isn’t the Toys R Us giraffe named Geoffrey?
jeffrey d
October 22nd, 2009
11:59 pm
At least it’s not Geoffrey…..
Like the butler from Fresh Prince or the Giraffe from Toys R’ Us
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
12:06 am
Bedtime! Nighty night, everyone.
Doc Holiday
October 23rd, 2009
12:07 am
what about sending KJ and KK/DL to brewers for hart?
Doc Holiday
October 23rd, 2009
12:10 am
Sorry I meant braun not hart
Doc Holiday
October 23rd, 2009
12:11 am
We could add a prospect also or maybe eat some of DL or KK contract.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
12:13 am
That’s quite a bit of salary for the Brewers I think.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
12:14 am
Oh, you ammended it…but I still don’t see them giving up Braun for anything less than a boatload of top prospects. He’s a great player with a very club-friendly contract I believe.
RHR
October 23rd, 2009
12:14 am
I don’t get it. Is it a vent?
Soph, yes its a braves vent, and I don’t get it either.
Thanks for the link, I will return to mock after I read it.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
12:15 am
considering this blog was dedicated to me and bay area steve,
lets go, how about the halos.
never would of thought they would of come back,
at the same time, florida state saved bobby bowden.
bobby bowden was about to loose 4 games in a row.
not to mention they were about to go 0-4 in the ACC.
DOB, maybee we should call out jason.
a jason and the scorchers concert on this blog.
some good old rockabilly.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
12:16 am
Doc Holiday,
I don’t think the Brewers are trading Braun.
RHR
October 23rd, 2009
12:17 am
Wait…you wrote about the BCS and congress?
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
12:22 am
anybody watch the Canadian TV show FLASHPOINT about a SWAT team? Not bad at all
Andrew
October 23rd, 2009
12:22 am
would you guys trade javy for nelson cruz? if we signed hudson and got cruz and kept larouche that is a nice lineup and staff..
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
12:24 am
would you guys trade javy for nelson cruz?
Well, that’s a purely academic exercise since Vazquez has a no-trade clause for the NL and AL West teams. But no, I wouldn’t. Though some would disagree with me and I don’t think it’s stupid or anything to like that deal.
Doc Holiday
October 23rd, 2009
12:26 am
P. W. Hjort,
They have lost lots of ground ……….cards, cubs are better than them………….reds are getting much better also……….they will have to make some moves……….they are very short in pitching……….not so on offense.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
12:29 am
bay area, never been a blend fan.
i like my whiskey straight.
never been a liquor fan.
so if i am drinking whiskey, it is a shot of bushmills.
irish whiskey.
never been sipper of bourbon.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
12:29 am
Yes, because there was a headline saying something like “Obama could launch a probe on BCS.” And every time something involving the President/Congress and sports (like the baseball steroid probe or the president making March Madness picks) people get their shorts in a wad going “We’re in a war in Iraq. Don’t they have more important things to worry about than football?”
And that’s always bothered me, as if every member of Congress is spending 24/7 and exhausting entire tax funds on whether or not the WAC is being treated fairly. Like I said…there’s 535 members of Congress and hundreds more government officials. Since this is something that so many Americans have a problem with, and several million dollars are involved (I meant to say millions in the Vent, not billions), I think it’s okay if just a few Congressmen spend some time on this.
RHR
October 23rd, 2009
12:31 am
Thats not a bad vent, seen a lot worse. I apologize for mocking you before reading lol
Bravo Nam
October 23rd, 2009
12:32 am
DOB
Thanks, man. Still over here in SE Asia…in Cambodia at the moment. Been following you all year. Got married a while back (second time around…some probably think I should be committed getting hitched again
), so that’s been keeping my nose to the grindstone! Yeah, still got the internet. All’s well. Good to read all the good fat on the Bravos on the blog…and great to see you putting some of the nutters on the blog in their places…ever so nicely, of course!
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
12:39 am
I apologize for mocking you before reading
lol, well we kind of built it up to be pretty shoddy
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
12:39 am
pwh,
pretty sure after your dissertaion about a physics class you dropped,
pretty much makes you the smartest guy here.
pwh, you are priviledged.
you get to go and get educated by one of the finest schools in the nation.
besides MIT, cal polly, ga tech is a monster in what they do.
pwh,
i only know that beacuse three of my best friends are georgia tech grads.
abacus solutions. look that company up.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
12:40 am
Wanda in Utah………I never said that if the Braves released Kelly Johnson that he would be eligible for salary arbitration with another team this year. If you read my posting last night, you would have clearly seen that I stated that Kelly would probably sign for the minimum with another team. If he had a good year in 2010, then he would be eligible for salary arbitration in 2011 and therefore in a position to recoup the money he lost out on by being released.
If Kelly stays with the Braves, he wont get the kind of playing time with the Braves (unless Martin Prado gets hurts, and even in that case, the Braves have Omar Infante available to play second base) that would warrant a significant raise in 2011.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
12:43 am
keylargo……….your posting on Kelly’s second half stats is VERY MISLEADING. If you take away Kelly’s first 6 at-bats upon his return from the DL (when he went 5 for 6), then his second half stats look TERRIBLE.
Kelly will give you a couple of hot games……..and then SUCK A$$ for 25 games.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
12:51 am
uga-brave,
You misunderstood, I dropped the class haha. It was way over my head.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
12:51 am
lentz,
no cash in the world series of poker?
actually i agree with you on kelly, and i was the original francoeur basher.
francoeur is probably the worst outfielder in baseball.
the mets will find it out next year.
sub .700 .ops’s dont usually last.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
12:52 am
Doc Holiday,
They’ve got to make some moves, no doubt. But it doesn’t make sense to trade one of their core players if they’re trying to win now. Plus Melvin said they’re not trading him.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
12:56 am
pwh,
i read your preface.
the fact you understood ma= AA
scares me.
see in athens all we learned were derivatives.
or anti.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
1:00 am
pwh,
if you ever want to sell used memory cards and you graduated from georgia tech i can get you an interview.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
1:06 am
uga-brave,
I appreciate the offer, I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve got another year here then *hopefully* medical school.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
1:19 am
P.W. Hjort
I don’t think anyone’s day in the AFL could be worse than Strasburg’s day. This again should let people know how special Tommy Hanson’s AFL performance was.
Also did anyone else from the Braves play tonight?
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
1:19 am
Lentz, you want to talk about stats after the All Star break? Take away the last two weeks for Prado and you have this:
AB.244 OBP.282 SLG.352 OPS.634 Lower in every category than Johnson.
That’s 48 games. You couldn’t find anyone who thought Prado should be the starter in 10.
Also yesterday you clearly did not know that the Braves and Johnson can negotiate a contract without the Braves offering him arbitration. If the Braves want to offer Johnson any amount greater than 80% of his 09 salary and Johnson accepts, they have a deal.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
1:20 am
Jay212033,
No. Heyward is still out, Freeman and Hicks got the day off. Kimbrel and Hyde didn’t get in the game, and Minor didn’t start.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
1:22 am
And yeah, Strasburg got roughed the f up today.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
1:31 am
DOB, braveheart, lew, scoots, bay area steve, steve from ohio,
i am somewhat confident that pwh, is a somewhat of a super genius.
i mean that in the highest regards.
pwh i get you. good luck.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
1:38 am
pwh, you and tnbrian should hook up.
probably a lot of good dialogue there.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
1:43 am
i am somewhat confident that pwh, is a somewhat of a super genius.
Nah. I’m not. Just a regular dude.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
1:47 am
mean that in in respectul mode.
that earlier class when you dropped it. physics does not suit you?
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
1:52 am
i did physics, tumbled, hell i did microbiology in athens.
pwh i definetly like you. good luck brother. go for medical school.
augusta is the destination.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
1:54 am
Physics is fine. It was a very difficult class that dealt with a lot of calculus and advanced theories. It was just an elective anyway and I was signed up for too many classes to begin with, so I choose to drop that one, just take chem-e classes this semester.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
2:07 am
pwh, a ton of my friends graduated IE, all were math weak. either way they are doing fairly well.
pwh, some one here dont realize what you are doing.
awesome stuff.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
2:15 am
pwh, i apllied serious math to the stock market.
666 on march 9th. so now a huge rally.
triple sixes.
so now that number to close to 1100. pretty good stuff.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
2:23 am
GE hit 5, the volatility index hit 70.
that was on the way down.
measured on the put to call index.
you only get one chance.
the bounce was, pretty darn good.
so now GE is 15 plus.
HoratioAlgae
October 23rd, 2009
2:29 am
Great mini-review of Leonard Cohen, DOB, thanks. The three martini lunch is also a great parable for life outside LA, and the late-night shift.
Any chance the Bravos make a play for Adrian Gonzalez of the Padres?
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
2:32 am
That’s 48 games. You couldn’t find anyone who thought Prado should be the starter in 10. (KL)
sure you could.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
2:36 am
666, on march 9th.
now approaching 1100.
what a move. do the math.
uga-brave
October 23rd, 2009
2:43 am
then again worry about gravity.
well then again worry about what happens after artificull stimulus happenss.
who would of thought merril lynch became bank of america.
Jurrjens4NLCY
October 23rd, 2009
3:06 am
You misunderstood, I dropped the class haha. It was way over my head.
Ahhh. Life in the south…
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
7:34 am
If you take away Kelly’s first 6 at-bats upon his return from the DL (when he went 5 for 6), then his second half stats look TERRIBLE.
So you’re saying that if we take away Kelly’s good AB and look only at his bad AB that his stats will look bad? A bold assertation.
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
7:47 am
HoracioAlgae, Adrian Gonzalez would be perfect, but I can’t imagine what SD would want in return & that’s if they’re even looking to trade him. That Towers guy is gone so maybe the new GM would bait him. You put him at 1st & then go out & sign a OF like Willingham/Nady… solid lineup. Doubt that all happens though.
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
7:51 am
- McLouth
- Prado
- CJ
- Gonzalez
- McCann
- Escobar
- Willingham/Nady
- Diaz
Imagine what damage that lineup could do, especially if CJ returns to his .300 plus avg.
richbrave
October 23rd, 2009
8:06 am
TN BRIAN:
Yesterday, I supined a similar scenerio about PRINCE FIELDER then using CHURCH, DIAZ and JOHNSON around McLOUTH and got bashed by the braineacks that troll on here. Like you, I postulated the cost might be too high in any event. The upshot is I like your thinking. Keep up the good work.
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
8:22 am
richbrave, I don’t know what’s to get bashed about… did anybody here this time a year ago predict that we’d end up with McLouth & LaRoche? That Wren has already shown he’s pretty slick & can surprise you with some good trades and signings.
Lew
October 23rd, 2009
8:54 am
ugabrave-Yeah, PWH is one of the more rational bloggers. But he IS here pretty regularly, so like the rest of us, he likely has issues.
Smitty10
October 23rd, 2009
9:26 am
What about seeing what it would take to pry James Loney from the Dodgers and including Freeman in the deal. Loney is a young proven firstbasemen in the majors.
tiger297
October 23rd, 2009
9:36 am
good call Lew (no offense PWH)
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
9:38 am
No thanks on Loney, he has no power.
CB
October 23rd, 2009
9:39 am
A few of us have more issues,read PL and Mitchell last night?
BamaBrave
October 23rd, 2009
9:53 am
Thank God the ALCS is moving out of Anaheim!!!! I couldn’t take one more inning of UberAss Scott Boras in the background of the centerfield camera shots of the batter. On his cellphone…wise-ass grin on his face. Way too symbolic for me…
McFann Ô
October 23rd, 2009
10:04 am
So glad the Angels pulled off a win last night! Did NOT want the Yankees winning this thing…especially in Anaheim.
You have a full count, now, Angels–but this time you don’t want the walk.
AK
October 23rd, 2009
10:06 am
Is something wrong with Heyward? I noticed he hasn’t played a game in the AFL in a while. Or is this just how they rotate things in that league?
Daslied
October 23rd, 2009
10:24 am
AK – Heyward strained his butt, so they’re just being cautious with him.
Zach
October 23rd, 2009
10:32 am
Watching First Take this morning and seeing Matty Diaz on the show was quite a surprise. It was not a surprise to see Skip Bayliss rip into him about the pickoff play.
Dave,
What are the braves plan for Diaz in the future? What is his contract status? potential for starting in the outfield next year?
thanks
monty
October 23rd, 2009
10:34 am
Prado if you will recall had a serious drop-off in his level of play when he started having those headaches and dizziness. After those were resolved he started returning to the way he was playing before those bouts. Anyone who is a decent observer of baseball talent can see that Prado is the right guy for us at 2nd.(FW thinks so, and some team- mates thought he was the MVP of the team). Prado seems to always have good AB’s, even when he makes outs he usually will hit it hard somewhere. And I don’t have the statistics to prove it but seems to bear down even more with 2 strikes on him, unlike alot of hitters who are dead once they get behind in the count with 2 strikes on them. KJ is not as bad as his detractors make him out to be (I am a detractor)but I feel(subjective reasoning) that Prado will even improve next season if he remains healthy. I don’t forsee KJ being with us next season. He doesn’t hit well enough to overlook his defense at 2nd like an Uggla. If I were him I would get that hitting coach from AAA to work with me this off season.
Doc Holiday
October 23rd, 2009
10:42 am
TnBrian,
with McLouth leading off I cant think of much damage.
DAP
October 23rd, 2009
10:47 am
i have to keep reminding myself that prado is only 25. it seems like he has been around forever, but hes got alot of MLB production left in him. its not a given, but at 25, youd at least expect him to maintain his performance for awhile. weve got a good one, folks.
N8
October 23rd, 2009
10:56 am
It amazes me how many people when doing their proposed lineups, just continue to pencil Chipper into the 3-hole. Unless he completely rebounds and finds his power stroke again (and certainly some more consistency with RISP and other clutch situations), he will hurt this team i the 3-hole more than he helps it.
Who out there thinks at age 37 with out some artifical “help”, that his numbers will continue to climb over the next couple of years?
He’s overpaid for what his production will be over the length of the extension. That being said, he needs to be on this team. He’s a leader. He’s the former face of the franchise and a fan favorite.
But Bobby needs to make his lineup with the current version of Chipper in mind. Not Chipper circa 1999 or 2008.
I’ll say it right now (been saying for months, but I’ll repeat it). If Chipper doesn’t rebound to something more similar to what we’re all used to, and Bobby keeps him in the 3-hole. This offense will sputter again, regardless of who bats around him.
Hopefully, he rebounds and my concern will be irrelevant.
DAP
October 23rd, 2009
11:01 am
N8, youre right, but you know chipper will bat third for the rest of bobby cox’s career. besides, i think if chipper can keep getting on base at a near .400 clip, he wont kill us in the 3 spot. i for one do think he will hit better in 2010.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:06 am
Keep in mind Chipper was hitting over .330 well into the season. It’s not like he woke up one morning in June and suddenly and permanently felt his age. He was 37 before the slump and he was 37 during the slump. His problems were all mental. For his entire career, save two seasons, he’s been a great hitter. He’ll be fine.
ncscoots
October 23rd, 2009
11:09 am
N8, when the Braves have a better option to hit 3, then you might be able to make a good argument against using Chipper’s declining skills there. However, that’s unlikely to be the case in 2010, regardless of any offensive moves in the offseason. A banger at 4 will go a long way towards reviving Chipper’s performance, not that I think he’s going to win another MVP at his age. But the man can still hit, in my opinion.
richbrave
October 23rd, 2009
11:12 am
TnBRIAN:
Well, I wasn’t screaming for WREN’s neck last year, and I won’t this off-season. Unfortunately for us, WREN has learned to be more secretive in his planning. Less information for us, but less egg on his face when deals don’t work out. And he won’t have to deal with the old PADRES GM.
So maybe we get a deal for ADRIAN GONZALEZ, who knows. I do note AG’s BA has declined as his HR totals have escalated. Someone, coaches or GONZALEZ himself, has made the decision to go for the gusto in regard to his personal approach to batting.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
11:13 am
Let me remind you that there are 535 people in Congress.
My experience leads me to believe it is more likely you were informing , rather than reminding, the majority of your readers.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:14 am
and certainly some more consistency with RISP and other clutch situations N8
What?? Chipper hit:
-.282 with runners on
-.333 with RISP
-.313 with RISP and 2 outs
-.444 with the bases loaded last year
Oh, and he also had an OBP higher than .400 in each of those situations and SLG higher than .500 in each of those except with runners on (.455). Statistically, Chipper only sucked when the bases were empty.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5164/situational;_ylt=AtbW_kWEX5HffUJjqySImemFCLcF
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:17 am
Good call, Bat.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:18 am
-44? What happened?
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:20 am
Someone used premadona in a vent today. It has to be someone on here.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:20 am
Aw really? I think it got a lot of pub on here and people are voting it down because we’re joking about it. Either that or they just think I’m stupid. Or both.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:23 am
Someone used premadona in a vent today. It has to be someone on here.
I saw that! But I really think it was just some stupid guy (I know I know…”What’s the difference?” But I mean some stupid guy not associated with us)
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
11:27 am
I saw that Lentz was off the medicine last night and on the blog. That, or the stake in his heart jiggled loose!
Regardless, the odds are good that Lowe is trade bait if Wren re-ups Hudson. The Bravos don’t need six starting pitchers, so… Lowe’s age, contract and predictably decent numbers makes him candidate #1, in my book. Kawakami, as part of a package, is #2. But the Bravos benefit much more by moving Lowe.
Kelly Johnson may well rebound, but the odds are very good that it won’t be as a Brave.
We need thay righty power bat, Paulie. Other teams need pitching, and Wren’s in a position to offer it.
Prado, barring some implosion, is going to start at 2B.
Next?
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:27 am
Naw, I think people on here just voted it down in fun. The late night crew must’ve made a push yesterday night.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
11:30 am
If you were going for popularity, jeffery d, you should have disparaged the U S Congress, certain winner.
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
11:34 am
Previously, my beef with management retaining Chipper was his run of injuries and the games missed because of those injuries.
This season, Chipper gave the Braves (I believe a team-leading) 143 games. Yes, his numbers were off, and that may or may not be an indicator of age. Still, we can’t necessarily expect Chipper to produce offensively like he did when he was 27. But… If he plays 140 games next season, gives the team 20 plus homers and 80 plus ribbies, I’d say that’s pretty solid production for a 3B.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
11:35 am
Soph, I’m thinking the Falcons put a serious beat down on the Cowboys this weekend.
RHR
October 23rd, 2009
11:41 am
It amazes me how many people when doing their proposed lineups, just continue to pencil Chipper into the 3-hole.
It amazes me how many people write out proposed lineups in any order. I mean, what is that? Unless your name is Bobby Cox or you are a sports writer, just stop it. For the love of humanity. Stop it.
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
11:42 am
Jeffrey D – It’s odd, stats normally win arguments here, but if it relates to being “clutch” then the board just ignores stats. For instance, the David Justice thing. I’m sorry but a few good at-bats don’t outweigh the evidence of his pathetic overall postseason stats.
Also, defensive stats and ratings are ignored if a player ever made one error that “looked really bad”.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:45 am
Bat – I hope so! I don’t know why but I keep thinking this might be a trap game for the Falcons b/c I know everyone’s looking forward to the Monday night game vs. the Saints next week.
Jake W.
October 23rd, 2009
11:47 am
Lentz, you want to talk about stats after the All Star break? Take away the last two weeks for Prado and you have this:
AB.244 OBP.282 SLG.352 OPS.634 Lower in every category than Johnson.
That’s 48 games. You couldn’t find anyone who thought Prado should be the starter in 10. -keylargo
Are we seriously going to compare the stats of someone who barely played to someone who played practically everyday when not out of the lineup with that headache problem he had? I know Lentz can say some things that are just stupid but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong with everything. Since we are going to get selective with stats lets go back to 2008 when KJ was still starting. From June 1- Aug 31 KJ had .238BA, .314 OBP, .342 SLG, .656 OPS. That was 77 games. I wonder if we could have found anyone who thought Kelly Should be the starter with those numbers.
N8
October 23rd, 2009
11:48 am
Guys. I’m not saying that Chipper CAN’T turn it around. I’m saying that until he does, he’s not the best option for the 3-hole. Period.
I’ve voiced my opinion on it all summer long, and I’ll continue to bang the drum. Escobar should be batting 3rd with the current 8 that we have in the lineup and Chipper should be batting 4th. The only reason he’s not batting 4th is because he doesn’t want to and his manager is obliging him with that request.
If Chipper is still the same hitter that you all say he is, shouldn’t HE be protecting the younger hitters, they way Bobby had veterans protect him in the lineup when he was the young up and coming player?
Jeffrey D, did you watch the games from July on? Sure. Chipper’s numbers overall for the year, skewed the fact that in the 2nd half he was TERRIBLE at the plate compared to any other 3-hole hitter on a team that fancied themselves as a playoff contender.
His bat being plugged into the 3-hole in the 2nd half of the year, is just as responsible for the offensive troubles as anybody.
In 77 games in the “first half”, Chipper had 37 K’s. In 66 games after the break he had 52. Here are the 1st half/2nd half splits:
BA: .290/.236, OBP: .411/.361, SLG: .467/.389, OPS: .878/.750
I know that RBI aren’t a great indicator of a hitters ability. Usually it is a suggestion that the guys ahead of him aren’t producing.
But in the first half with KJ leading off in April and May, Chipper had 41 RBI in 77 games. After the break with McLouth leading off and Prado hitting 2nd, he had a whopping 30 RBI in 66 games.
Like it or not. Believe that he’ll turn it around or not. There isn’t two ways about it. Chipper batting 3rd (and Bobby insisting that he stays there), hurt this team down the stretch. Blame other guys all you want. But you’d be wrong.
Will he turn it around? I hope so. If he doesn’t…… Go Braves in 2011.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
11:50 am
Maybe, Soph, but I think these guys are too well coached for that. I’m more concerned about losing Williams.
N8
October 23rd, 2009
11:51 am
” It’s odd, stats normally win arguments here, but if it relates to being “clutch” then the board just ignores stats.” ugaaccountant
I’ll ask you as well. What were Chipper’s “clutch” (RISP) stats in the 2nd half? Anf for those claming it was a batting order protection issue… then why didn’t Bobby put LaRoche in the cleanup spot? Clearly, he was on fire for the 2nd half of the year.
Don
October 23rd, 2009
11:53 am
If Wren’s plan is to “Get Better”, then why is our biggest problem still with us – Bobby Cox??? This is something that we could have done something about at no expense. Looking at his incompetence – in so many different ways, this is really a mystery. The only possible explanation would seem to be that he had a guarantee of being able to stay as long as he wanted.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:57 am
I don’t know, I think clutch stats can be misleading when you’re watching a game live. Bases are loaded with 2 outs, and Chipper strikes out. HUGE disappointment, everyone’s angry, upset, etc. Chipper’s suddenly the biggest loser in the world. But even the best hitters are going to fail about 7 out of 10 times.
Chipper batting 3rd (and Bobby insisting that he stays there), hurt this team down the stretch
Oh I completely agree with that. But I find it hard to believe that Chipper went from great hitter to terrible hitter because of his age and body in the middle of the season. He’s a smart hitter who just started thinking way too much. I think he’ll be fine.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:58 am
Bat – oh yeah, losing Williams for the year is not good. Our corners were already weak so it should be interesting.
Have you noticed that Jerious Norwood gets hurt a lot? I really like him but it seems like he’s questionable, doubtful, or out every week.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
11:58 am
The only possible explanation would seem to be that he had a guarantee of being able to stay as long as he wanted .
The FO has said many times, over the past few years, Cox could manage the Braves as long as he wanted to, it’s not a secret.
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
11:59 am
It amazes me how many people write out proposed lineups in any order. I mean, what is that? Unless your name is Bobby Cox or you are a sports writer, just stop it. For the love of humanity. Stop it.RHR
Ooorah!
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
12:01 pm
When will the blogs obsession with Kelly FREAKIN Johnson end? I really don’t get it… he had a few really good months in ‘08, then he was just the regular ole Johnson that’s a streaky .250/.260 hitter. That’s all, nothing more, nothing less.
Chipper has already said he prefers hitting 3rd, so that’s your number 3 hitter. Leave it be & write up some new material because Bobby is a player’s manager, especially for a HOF vet like CJ.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
12:02 pm
Yeah Soph, I have. I was talking about that very thing, last week, with my cousin and boom, Norwood gets hurt. It’s a shame really, the guy works hard and brings a lot to the table.
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
12:04 pm
Or, RHR:
- Diaz
- Prado
- CJ
- Gonzalez
- McCann
- Escobar
- Willingham/Nady
Maybe you didn’t like McLouth leading off is why you dissed on my “proposed lineup”? It was, wasn’t it RHR?
- McLouth
RHR
October 23rd, 2009
12:06 pm
Hey has Random’s van been seen in the neighborhood lately?
The Braves are in the process of assessing whether there will be a trade market for pitchers Kenshin Kawakami or Derek Lowe, and if there is, this will increase the chances of Tim Hudson’s re-signing with the Braves. The talks between Atlanta and Hudson should accelerate over the next week, and within that time frame, either there will be a deal in place or Hudson will move on.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4587861&name=olney_buster
Daslied
October 23rd, 2009
12:07 pm
Out of 2009 3B (qualified only), Chipper was:
1st in walk rate (17.1%)
1st in BB/K ratio (1.13 – the only one to walk more than K)
2nd in swinging at balls (15.4%)
3rd at swinging at strikes (72.7%)
5th in OB% (.388)
9th in K rate (18.2%)
10th in line drive % (20% – tied with A-Rod)
12th in OPS (.818)
18th in BABIP (.291 – .26 lower than career average)
No reason to think he won’t rebound. I don’t understand why, on this board, the benefit of the doubt is given to Ordonez, Dye, DeRosa, Delgado, Blalock, Glaus, Andruw, Nady, etc., and not Chipper. One of the best hitters in the history of baseball has two bad months and he needs to be dropped in the lineup, traded, benched or cut. His OPS was above .900 in three of six months, but that doesn’t matter?
Magglio had two months above a .900 OPS, one under .600 and three more under .800. Sure, let’s throw $18MM (and a starter) in for him!! As long as he bats before Chipper…
Jiminy.
RHR
October 23rd, 2009
12:09 pm
No Brian, you misunderstand, I don’t read the proposed lineups. My eyes glaze over when I see that familiar list of 8 names in various order and I scroll on by. Its like a Lentz post, without the quotation marks and insults.
N8
October 23rd, 2009
12:09 pm
Here’s an odd stat. It’s actually a very normal stat. It’s the splits of RBI for Chipper in our wins and in our losses. Now, common sense will tell you that your best hitter produces less in the losses than in the wins. But these are rather alarming to me.
In the 74 games Chipper played in when the Braves won, here are his numbers:
.320/.452/.553/1.005 with 14 HR and 54 RBI.
In the 70 losses that he participated in?
.204/.313/.298/.611 with 4 HR and 17 RBI.
His slugging was LESS than his OBP. And to only have 17 RBI in those games? Yikes. Now, like I said. It’s not that you don’t expect a guy to produce less in a loss. But to produce that LITTLE for 70 different games?
I thought I’d look at Pujols’ numbers, since I think he’s the best hitter in the game. In the Cards’ wins (90) that he played in, here are his numbers:
.382/.502/.849/1.351 with 40 HR and 104 RBI.
In the 70 losses he played in:
.259/.362/.418/.781 with 7 HR and 29 RBI.
So even his numbers aren’t that great in the the losses. But he had 65 hits in the 70 losses (Chipper had 48 in the 70 – who thinks 17 more hits in the losses doesn’t win a game or two or three?).
So, Pujols (and most 3-hole hitters) perform poorly in losses, Chipper was extremely poor, especially in the 2nd half. Add to that, Pujols was unbelievable in the 90 wins. While Chipper was simply really good.
Money? Chipper made 13 million in 09 and will also in 2010. Pujols made and will make 16 million in each year.
For only 3 million dollars difference, I expect a helluva lot more for a that, and especially if the manager is going to let him dictate where he hits in the lineup.
Keep in mind, this rant has WAAAAAYY more to do with Bobby keeping him there, than Chipper’s actual production. Players get older and decline. Chipper certainly has my respect and adoration as a fan.
But regardless of what Scoots says. In 2009 (and possibly moving forward), Chipper wasn’t the best option on the team to bat 3rd, and it showed up in the W-L column.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
12:14 pm
TnBrian, It would seem to me that Kelly Johnson has worked hard to make it. He got hurt and moved to second base,and worked his ass off to become serviceable, defensively. It seems he tried to be a leadoff hitter, though not a good fit for him. Hell, a guy should work hard if he wants to be a big leaguer , still I understand why many pull for him. Maybe he makes, maybe not, such is life.
N8
October 23rd, 2009
12:20 pm
“Oh I completely agree with that. But I find it hard to believe that Chipper went from great hitter to terrible hitter because of his age and body in the middle of the season. He’s a smart hitter who just started thinking way too much. I think he’ll be fine.” Jeffrey D
I think you’ll be right. I think he focusses this off-season, and rebounds. Still not sure that he’ll be the best option at his age for the 3-hole. I think his bat control and slowly declining power numbers makes him an ideal 2-hole hitter, but only if bigger bats are added to plug the middle of the order.
Again, not a knock on Chipper. It’s just the toughest thing for a manager/HC/GM to do is assess when to move forward with a younger guy taking over for a declining star.
I often wonder, had Gant and Chipper played on the same team, would Chipper have still been inserted into the 3-hole, the spot Gant held before his injury?
N8
October 23rd, 2009
12:29 pm
Daslied, good points in your 12:07. I’ve been pining for Esco to take over the 3-hole. He only had two months over .900 OPS as well. The end result is about the same (Chipper had an .818 OPS and Escobar’s was .812).
Chipper’s last 3 months were .907, .747 and .645 (that’s the one that alarms me – needed him most and he disappeared – though the team picked him up). Escobar’s were 1.063, .788 and .741.
I guess the question is, is now the time to switch? Is Escobar on the rise? Is Chipper on the decline?
I don’t have a problem with Chipper starting the year in the 3-hole. My problem will be if Bobby is unwilling to move him if it’s hurting the team. Hope that clears it up.
DAP
October 23rd, 2009
12:34 pm
N8 dont you think the whole team had worse numbers in losses than in wins? i mean…thats probably why they lost, right?
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
12:38 pm
keylargo………..Dude, I have always known that the Braves can, in theory, negotiate a contract with Kelly Johnson without offering him salary arbitration. However, just because the Braves have the “theoritical” right to negotiate that way……….does not mean that it is a realistic option.
As David O’Brien said…..it is VERY RARE for a player to accept a contract at below his previous season’s salary during his arbitration years. The arbitration game stacked in favor of the player. Even if he has an “off year”, a salary arbitrator will factor in previous years when determining the next year’s salary.
So, knowing that, why would Kelly Johnson give up his right to salary arbitration and accept a contract at 80% of his 2009 salary……..when he can easily get awarded $3.5 or possibly $4 mil in arbitration?
I’m not the one going around without knowledge here. I’m very aware of how the arbitration process has worked over the years.
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
12:45 pm
jeffrey d… I think Chipper did fatigue as the season progressed. He hadn’t played regularly in – what? – 5 years. I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong, but he did look listless at times.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
12:48 pm
Steve from OH…………..I’m not saying that we should automatically take away a player’s good at-bats when factoring in how good he really is.
I’m saying that other than Kelly’s first couple of days back from the DL (when he went 5 for 6)…….he went 13 for 63 (.206) the rest of the season.
So in other words………Kelly batted .214 in 224 at-bats BEFORE going on the DL……went 5 for 6 in the couple of days after his return from the DL…….and then hit .206 after that.
It isnt like I’m taking a whole month of stats away from Kelly’s 2009 season in order to make him “look bad”. I took away 6 FREAKING AT-BATS, out of 303……..to show how bad Kelly’s 2009 season really was.
However, because of the “man crush” that you have on Kelly Johnson, I’m sure that the 5 for 6 stretch that Kelly had upon his return from the DL gave you many orgasms. Those 6 at-bats gave you plenty excuse to overlook the 297 other SUCK A$$ at-bats that Kelly had this season.
ncscoots
October 23rd, 2009
12:48 pm
I’m not the one going around without knowledge here.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the reasons that I still occasionally read a Dentz post, LOL. I mean, come on, is that line not priceless? Singularly obtuse, yes, but, priceless still, LOL.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
12:57 pm
Well he is right 99% of the time. I’m surprised he didn’t throw a decimal in there too.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
12:58 pm
Jeff R……….again, it is common that readers from the South are afflicted with A.D.D. and “selective reading” (in other words, poor comprehension skills).
I NEVER SAID that the Braves shouldnt trade Derek Lowe. I said that the Braves should not trade him in order to just dump his salary.
Many on here are clamoring for the Braves to eat part of his contract and dump him in stupid trade scenarios like the one for Magglio Ordonez of the Detroit Tigers. If the Braves were to trade Lowe, they CERTAINLY could not only get decent value for him (many teams need starting pitching who never get hurt and can pitch 200 innings every season, even if he is a little overpriced at $15 mil a season)…………but also certainly not have to eat any of his salary.
Again, just because Derek Lowe is a little overpriced at $15 mil a season DOES NOT mean that there arent teams willing to take on his salary. If Lowe was prone to injuries, then sure, he would be hard to trade. However, given his track record of having a rubber arm, overpaying for someone IS NOT the same as not getting value from someone.
My point all along is that the Braves are dealing from a position of STRENGTH with their starting pitching surplus. I feel that if the Braves dont get a fair trade offer for Derek Lowe (or any of the other starting pitching that they would like to dangle in order to improve the offense)………then the Braves would be smart to keep all 6 starting pitchers.
Starting pitchers get hurting all the time in Spring Training. When that happens, the Braves could be in a position to make a trade that is more favorable to them.
Also, if one of the Braves starting pitchers gets hurt, then we’ll have someone who can step right in.
Fleming
October 23rd, 2009
12:59 pm
Paul –
Kelly’s first couple of days back from the DL (when he went 5 for 6)…….he went 13 for 63 (.206) the rest of the season.
Could that possible be a function of playing regularly and not. 5 for six after coming back from Gwenette where he played regularly then 13 for 63 while playing sparingly and pintch hitting. There are many factors involved in how someone plays over a short time period.
N8
October 23rd, 2009
1:03 pm
DAP, of course they did. But even in years past, Chipper’s numbers (mainly batting average and slugging), weren’t THAT bad in losses.
My point is that he’s possibly starting to decline. For him to only have 17 RBI in the 70 losses he played in, while batting .202 is alarming, don’t you think?
Here is his BA in the losses for the previous few years:
2008 – .286, 2007 – .288, 2006 – .290
Maybe it’s just a bad year. Maybe it’s no protection. Maybe it’s coincidence.
My point is, is we/he had less protection in the lineup and he is still as good as everybody thinks or says he is (which may be the case), then why not use HIM to protect the younger guys? Why go a whole year wasting his AB’s and allowing people to protect him that aren’t capable of it? Why not bat McLouth in the 3-hole and protect him with Chipper? Why not bat Escobar in the 3-hole and protect him with Chipper?
Or as I’ve asked, why not protect Chipper in the 2nd half with one of the hottest hitters in baseball in LaRoche?
I’m not a guy that insists that the cleanup hitter has to be a 40 or 50 HR guy. A cleanup hitter can be a doubles machine too, which Chipper can still be. But he clearly isn’t as fast as he used to be, so wouldn’t putting a faster guy that gets on base that is also capable of knocking in runs (McLouth or Escobar), more logical?
I think it speaks volumes about what Cox and Wren think of Escobar as a player. He’s in his 3rd year and can’t move up in the lineup, yet Chipper was inserted into the 3-hole from the get go. Is Escobar the same talent now as Chipper was in 95? Probably not. But damn, they are about the same player right now. So rather than have a young guy that isn’t a bopper protect your alleged best hitter, just have that best hitter be the protection and leader of the lineup. It seems too simple to me.
Regardless of where Chipper hits, the lineup in general needs and injection of new blood. Whether that is Heyward or a trade or a free agent. So making the lineup deeper will go a long ways towards eliminating extended scoring droughts. If this team were to add a Derek Lee, or a Jason Bay, Chipper would probably be just fine in the 3-hole.
But if said big bopper is not added, I believe that the current group of 8 regulars is best served to score runs and produce consistently with Chipper batting cleanup or 5th, protecting the top half of the lineup.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
1:05 pm
Fleming………Kelly didnt play “regularly” in his 5 for 6 “streak”. He had a pinch hit, then went 3 for 4 in a blowout against Milwaukee, then had another pinch hit.
He then started the next 2 games and went 0 for 7 with an error. Then he had a 4 for 30 month of August. So in other words, he went 4 for 37 right after going 5 for 6.
Way too inconsistent to be depended on.
N8
October 23rd, 2009
1:10 pm
It’s not neccesarily the over all numbers in the losses that alarms me for chipper. It’s the ammount of games in which he literally did nothing that is alarming. He was literally a non-factor in 40 games or so.
When was the last time, if ever, you could say that? In the 70 losses, he was intentionally walked only 5 times, and overall in those games, he took only 38 total walks. Which tells me that teams weren’t pitching around him that much. If that was the case, the IBB would have been higher. But it also tells how much he was pressing and trying to do too much. At some point he has to trust the guys behind him, take his walks and let them have the opportunity to produce.
Maybe I’m panicking over nothing. Maybe he simply was pressing too much. But something has to give somewhere in the lineup. Common sense says that Wren will do plenty this winter to give Chipper more help.
If not, we’re in trouble with Cox writing out the lineup card for one more year.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
1:13 pm
Lentz has got a point. After weeks of not blogging, he came back and he’s as consistent as ever…
Fleming
October 23rd, 2009
1:16 pm
Paul
Kelly was coming off playing “regularly” ( see I can do quotes too) and pinch hitting then starting then pinch hitting again is playing “regularly”. That’s 3 games in 3 days. Starting 7 games in a whole month is not playing “regularly”
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
1:18 pm
It’s like old times again. I feel like it’s July all over again.
Jim
October 23rd, 2009
1:30 pm
Suppose the Braves sign Laroche to a 3-year, or even a 4-year contract. As long as there’s no a “no trade” clause and the yearly amount is reasonable, the Braves would be able to trade Laroche if (A) Freeman is actually ready (and not just Schaefer-ready) and (B) Laroche stays healthy. The one thing Laroche has been for the past few years is consistent. He’s 31 now. With proper conditioning, he’ll be just as good – at least – for the next 3 – 5 years. And, who knows, if he ever learned to hit in the first half of the year, Freeman might be the trade bait – or a temporary left fielder in ‘12 and ‘13. It’s not that complicated. There’s no guarantee Freeman will be ready by ‘11, or for that matter, ever. Laroche is a 25-30 HR; .285 hitter – and will be for the next five years at least.
Phil in GA
October 23rd, 2009
1:34 pm
BravoNam,
Good to see your name on here again, too. I don’t post on here too often, but enjoy reading yours from abroad. I’ll actually be going to Cambodia for a couple weeks in November. Most of my time will be spent about 1 1/2 hrs away from Phnom Penh, in Oudong (it’s a work trip).
Think I’m going to go up to Siem Reap and Angkor afterwards – but figured I’d ask you if you have any recommendations for places to go when I have a few extra days of free time. Have you been to any beach spots on the coast?
Thanks for any info you want to pass along. How long have you been there? You’ve lived in several places in SE Asia, right?
Hope everyone else is doing well. Pulling for an Angels comeback just for the thrill of the Yanks losing in 7, but have to admit I think a Yankees-Phillies World Series – much as I hate ‘em both – would be some really high-level Fall Classic baseball. They’re both just so strong right now.
By the way, here’s hoping new offense includes a power-hitting OF AND LaRoche back at first. I’m excited about Heyward, too, but I’m not too worried about when he arrives. He’ll play his way into a big-league job whenever he’s ready. I’d love to have an outfield, maybe by the beginning of 2011, that looks either like:
LF: New bopper (Jason Bay? A man can dream, right?)
CF: McClouth/Schafer (whoever’s best)
RF: Heyward
or even:
LF: McClouth
CF: Schafer (rejuvenated)
RF: Heyward
Both scenarios, ideally, with Matt Diaz as the fourth OF’er. Man, can’t believe how we can all so easily cast a .300 hitter with decent power, energetic guy, into a reserve role – but that’s what I’m doing here, too. But I think he just knows and fills that role so well.
Anyways, just figured I’d add some thoughts. DOB, couple of dumb questions for you:
-I know he’s another guy on the wrong side of the hill, but how ridiculous an idea do you think it would be for Braves to pursue Vlad? He’s a FA this offseason, right? He’s always been one of my favorites and I loved that guy when he was younger with the Expos – just a complete player. Wonder if he’s got enough juice left for a couple more seasons – rotate with Diaz or upcoming Heyward maybe? Anyway that could be viewed as an option – if we sign LaRoche, too, of course?
-And another question just because I like the guy: In your opinion, does Brandon Jones have a shot at playing ball again with the big-league Braves at any point? Really thought he was a well-rounded young player when I’ve seen him in spring training/brief time with ATL in ‘08. Know he had some injury issues and a less-than-stellar ‘09 campaign. And I know the Braves probably aren’t looking at bringing up an OF’er without much pop – not with the lineup as it is now. But… is he still on their major-league radar at all? Or think he can get there again?
Have a good one…
Daslied
October 23rd, 2009
1:42 pm
Paul, I just realized that you are Dwight from “The Office”.
Now, is ADD/”selective reading” really just a problem in the South? I don’t know if go away I’d say that leave. It seems to me that, based on for the love of god shut up the research I’ve read, ADD is a problem shut piehole everywhere. It’s really sad, personally, because when I was driving me insane in school in the 80s, people who did poorly in school were just go ruin a Cowboys blog “dumb”. I also remember subtle social experiments to see how people performed christ I’m going to chop my head off if you keep talking in a natural setting. Whoa, sorry for the rambling move to Greenland post!
What do you think, Paul?
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
1:49 pm
Lentz, here is your statement that clearly shows you did not understand the Arbitration process. You said “just because the Braves can offer him 80% of his 09 salary does not mean the arbitrator will side with the Braves”. The arbitrator has nothing to do with salary negotiations before both sides agree to arbitration! The Braves can offer anything more than 80% of last years salary (it could be 95% or 105%). If these negotiations do not result in a contract then the Braves can offer arbitration or non tender him.
What you said is that the Braves can offer Johnson 80% of his 09 salary and Johnson could ask for $4 mil and let the arbitrator decide. THAT IS NOT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN
Here is your exact quote:
The Braves would be fools to offer Kelly Johnson arbitration. Just because the Braves can offer him 80% of his $2.85 mil 2009 salary for 2010………..does not mean that an arbitrator will side with the Braves. Paul Lentz
Here is another statement you made, basically saying KJ had good years in 07 and 08 and he would be a candidate for up to $4 mil in arbitration.
Many of you forget that a salary arbitrator often takes into account past seasons when deciding whether to side with the player or team’s salary request.
I can easily see Kelly Johnson asking for $3.5 mil or even $4 mil in salary arbitration. That is one risk that the Braves would be foolish to take. Paul Lentz
Fleming
October 23rd, 2009
1:54 pm
Daslied
Paul’s problem is he has reading comprehension skill problem. Maybe it’s because he is from San Fran and everyone there has that problem. You can see it in all his posts. Whenever someone needs to write a book to express one simple idea, it’s because they couldn’t understand what they are writing if it was clear and concise.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
1:58 pm
go away….. leave….. for the love of god shut up …….. shut pie hole ………… driving me insane…. just go ruin a cowboys blog ……. christ I’m going to chop my head off if you keep talking…… move to Greenland……..
Just thought I would save Paul some time.
ncscoots
October 23rd, 2009
2:04 pm
Whenever someone needs to write a book to express one simple idea
Yes, but “idea” connotes “creation of original thought”. Don’t think that really applies to Dentz, LOL. Somehow, the concept of “critical thinking” and his moniker in the same context…well, I’m having a little trouble with that visual.
However, it’s probably a good thing that he’s again gracing us with his acumen and verve. Nothing perks up a bad day better than thinking, “There, but for the Grace of God, go I.”.
Lunatic Fringe
October 23rd, 2009
2:05 pm
Daslied,
Excellent 1:42 post—made this southerner smile
beekay
October 23rd, 2009
2:05 pm
Having six solid pitchers going into Spring training is ok with me. One of the contending teams will be snake bit by injury and will be forced to over pay for a starter in a trade. It happens every year, count on someone going down…if not move KK to the pen and win as many 2-1 and 3-2 ball games as we can
Fleming
October 23rd, 2009
2:08 pm
Scoots
Not supposed to use the words Dentz and God in the same post either. Both might be offended.
McFann Ô
October 23rd, 2009
2:16 pm
Nothing perks up a bad day better than thinking, “There, but for the Grace of God, go I.”.
Snicker snicker snicker…You havin’ a bad day, ncpoots?
D.Lowe For Who?
October 23rd, 2009
2:17 pm
Might it just be possible to trade an overpaid, yet know quantity pitcher for an overpaid yet known quantity power bat?
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
2:33 pm
Whenever someone needs to write a book to express one simple idea
Nietzsche : It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book .
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
2:37 pm
Snicker snicker snicker…You havin’ a bad day, ncpoots?
Are you saying scoots is full of it, McFann?
ncscoots
October 23rd, 2009
2:39 pm
Bat, go crazy, my man. I’m wondering about the last Nietzsche reference we had on the blog, and, you know, I can’t quite put my finger on it, LOL.
A little Dentzian nihilism might go a long way, I’m thinking.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
2:40 pm
keylargo…………I made previous postings in the last blog detailing the possibility of the Braves trying to negotiate a 2010 contract with Kelly before deciding whether to offer him salary arbitration or non-tendering him. I am WELL AWARE that the Braves can negotiate and sign Kelly to a 2010 contract without doing the arbitration thing.
However, regardless of whether the Braves negotiate with him or do the arbitration thing……the fact remains that the absolute minimum that the Braves can sign Kelly for in 2010 is 80% of his 2009 contract. I feel that the absolute minimum is a waste of payroll dollars for the Braves. That money can be better allocated to addressing other needs (like a decent middle reliever).
My contention all along has been that: 1. The Braves would be FOOLISH to pay a back-up 2nd baseman $2.3 mil. 2. As David O’Brien said yesterday, it is VERY RARE for an arbitration eligible player to take less money than the previous season. 3. If Kelly Johnson visions himself as an everyday player, he would be better off by not taking a pay cut and hope that the Braves will either be foolish enough to offer him arbitration (where he will be in line to get a decent raise to $3.5 or even $4 mil for the 2010 season……or hope that they release him so he can have a chance to compete for a starting job with another team.
If Kelly were to sign with another team (probably for around $1 mil) and win a starting job in Spring Training for his new team……….he would have a chance to recoup any lost money the following season if he has the kind of 2010 season that some of you on here think he can have. If he has a standout year in 2010 for another team, he’ll still be eligible for arbitration and in line to get a substantial raise.
Yet if Kelly accepts a 2010 contract from the Braves at 80% of his 2009 salary, then he will not get the kind of playing time that would warrant a significant raise for 2011. Even if Martin Prado gets hurts or turns into a bust…….the Braves still have Omar Infante who can come in and play second.
So again, I’ve shown that you are pretty selective when it comes to your interpretation on what I say. You conveniently point out selected posts I make, without taking into account previous postings that laid the groundwork for subsequent postings.
The Artist Formery Known as Too Hot For Teacher
October 23rd, 2009
2:40 pm
agree with beekay here…..I like carrying all six starters into Spring Training. One of two things is BOUND to happen –
1) One of our guys gets hurt – with a sixth starter (Hudson) we don’t lose a beat and have to deal with penciling in a Chuck James, JoJo type. Insurance cash pics up injured player’s salary.
2) Somebody else loses a starter during the spring or fails to get a big pitcher and in a desparate move to appease fans will overpay us in a trade – giving us good returns for less cash.
The Braves were REALLY fortunate last year – how many people started games last year? 7? KK, JJ, Lowe, Vasquez, Hanson, Medlin, Hudson? And when you consider that we didn’t HAVE to pitch Medlin or Hudson – we just wanted to – that’s pretty rare folks. I’d bet our starters don’t fare that well on the injury front next season
ncscoots
October 23rd, 2009
2:41 pm
“ncpoots” was a scathing comeback from Dentz one night, Bat. I’ve never recovered.
Daslied
October 23rd, 2009
2:42 pm
Thanks for proving my point, Paul! Have a good day.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
2:42 pm
beekay…………your 2:05pm posting tailgates what I said in my 12:58pm posting about holding on to all 6 starting pitchers and possibly making a good deal in Spring Training when other team’s starting pitchers injure themselves.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
2:44 pm
Ah, I see, very clever. Well you hang in there, scoots. lol
Fleming
October 23rd, 2009
2:48 pm
Paul
Your 2:40 to keylargo could have been said – keylargo you’re wrong and I’m right. Us ADD southerners maybe would have been able to understand that.
rico carty
October 23rd, 2009
2:50 pm
Most would agree that Pete Rose, Eddie Murray, and Mickey Mantle are the greatest switchhitters of all time. Rose is often forgotten here, because he didn’t have many home runs. Therefore, Chipper can be compared to Mantle and Murray. Mantle was before my time but I understand he was maybe the fastest player in the game early in his career. Murray, however, is the only switchhitter in the 500 HR/3000 hit club. For several years now I have had those goals in mind for Chipper and really pulling for him, and sad seeing that production slow down where he would now need 4 more years, fairly healthy years, to accomplish this. That would be 150 hits/19 homers for four more years.
DOB, do you have any idea how important those individual goals are for
Chipper? He’s already a sure fire Hall of Famer, but the 500/3000 would put him in pretty rare air.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
2:51 pm
And on cue Paul shows up with another diatribe.
Paul:I feel that the absolute minimum is a waste of payroll dollars for the Braves.
You feel that, and you denigrate southerners.
Ed Glennon
October 23rd, 2009
2:57 pm
DOB – enjoyed all the info and I am really glad you mentioned Wise a good guy and an ex-Brave. Very classy.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
3:05 pm
The Artist Formery Known as Too Hot For Teacher……………….your 2:40pm posting was dead on. The Braves are dealing from a position of strength. There is no need to rush into trading a quality starting pitcher like Derek Lowe UNLESS we get value in return.
If the Braves cant re-sign Adam LaRoche to a 1 year contract (highly unlikely because I feel that LaRoche will be able to get a decent 3 or 4 year offer from another team)……then the Braves would be smart to pursue a trade for Adrian Gonzalez. Gonzalez is a better player than LaRoche and has a Nate McLouth type similar contract that is very team friendly.
Any trade to get Gonzalez would automatically include Freddie Freeman. If the Braves were to propose a trade centered around Kris Medlen and Freddie Freeman (along with whatever Frank Wren feels would make it a fair trade for the Braves)…………I can see the Padres possibly going for it. The Padres are looking to cut payroll even more. Freddie Freeman and Kris Medlen would be cheap alternatives….to go along with addressing the need for a replacement at 1st and a young arm that can be immediately inserted into their starting rotation.
Not only would the Braves get an upgrade at 1st that would actually be cheaper and younger than LaRoche……the Braves would still have a surplus of starting pitching to dangle in a trade to possibly acquire a right handed power hitter to play left field……..or they could go the free agency route.
I’m not saying that the Braves will be successful in acquiring Adrian Gonzalez or that the Padres would be even be interested in trading him. I’m saying that the Braves have young, cheap players to dangle in a possible trade that could attract the interest of the Padres. It would not hurt the Braves to explore this.
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
3:13 pm
“If Kelly were to sign with another team (probably for around $1 mil) and win a starting job in Spring Training for his new team……….he would have a chance to recoup any lost money the following season if he has the kind of 2010 season that some of you on here think he can have. If he has a standout year in 2010 for another team, he’ll still be eligible for arbitration and in line to get a substantial raise.”
I almost see what you are saying here, but how many people are going to turn down say $3 million in 2009 for $1 million in 2009? Who does that except people who are already set for life? Why would KJ take only 1 million when he knows that a) baseball careers can be over in the blink of an eye and b) that arbitration numbers and sort of even free agent offers are based off what you made last season. It’s tough to argue you are worth $7 million in 2011 if you chose to sign for $1 million in 2010.
beekay
October 23rd, 2009
3:13 pm
Think of how badly we needed pitching prior to getting JV, KK, and DLowe, now are there any teams out there that need the same overhaul that we needed? Those are the teams to start negotiating with. If a pitcher goes down in spring training from either the Yanks, Red Sox, Angels or Cubs we could get lucky. Those teams have too much money invested to have a hole in their rotation, especially if it is someone that is a 1,2, or 3 starter.
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
3:14 pm
Paul
Your 2:40 to keylargo could have been said – keylargo you’re wrong and I’m right. Us ADD southerners maybe would have been able to understand that. Fleming
I’m certain he would have said that if only he was right. But he wasn’t. He has a very difficult time saying he is wrong.
Daslied
October 23rd, 2009
3:15 pm
Paul, the Padres already have a replacement at first (Kyle Blanks). And we’re not getting Gonzalez for Freeman and Medlen. It would be those two plus one of Hanson or Heyward, minimum. His popularity, production and low cost will require a ridiculous return, one that the Braves shouldn’t provide.
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
3:15 pm
Hmm – trading with the padres and expecting reasonable demands, where have I heard that before? I just can’t (peavy) remember (Hanson) when that last happened.
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
3:16 pm
Freeman/Medlen/Schafer/Kimbrel might not even be enough to get Adrian Gonzalez. At least with Towers it wouldn’t have been, but this new GM might be different. Honestly, if it took a package like that to get him I wouldn’t bother with it.
Preacher Roe
October 23rd, 2009
3:35 pm
It takes a Southerner 10 minutes to say something a Yankee says in 10 seconds, but it takes a Southerner only 10 sentences to say something it takes a Yankee a million words to say.
David O'Brien
October 23rd, 2009
3:37 pm
uga-brave: you’re somewhat sure of that, huh? Ok.
Anyway, just ate at the original Arthur Bryant’s near downtown K.C.. Can’t beat it. BBQ brisket sandwich, on white break (the only way they serve their sandwiches). Piled about 3-4 inches high.
Went to the college basketball Hall of Fame thing at Sprint Center. It ain’t Cooperstown, but pretty cool nonetheless.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
3:40 pm
ugaaccountant……..your 3:13pm posting misses the point. I NEVER said that Kelly Johnson would turn down $3 mil from the Braves to be a back-up in order to start for another team while only making $1 mil.
I said earlier that the Braves would be FOOLISH to offer Kelly Johnson salary arbitration because of what he is likely to be awarded. I also said that the Braves would be foolish to even offer him $2.3 mil (80% of his 2009 salary) before they have to make a decision on whether to tender him or non-tender him.
Your posting made an irrevelant point. I never said that Kelly would turn down $3 mil. In fact, if the Braves were foolish enough to offer him $3 mil, Kelly would be a FOOL to turn it down.
brent a.
October 23rd, 2009
3:40 pm
The money the Wilpon’s made investing with Madoff was likely stolen from another investor.
The 2010 Mets – the best team stolen money can buy!
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
3:41 pm
Lentz – don’t be dense. The braves would love to have him at 2.3. That’s dirt cheap.
beekay
October 23rd, 2009
3:42 pm
Is Jake Sharp the next Danny Woodhead?
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
3:46 pm
Daslied……….your 3:15pm posting shows that you, again, are very selective in your comprehension of what I say.
In my 3:05pm posting, I said that a package CENTERING around Kris Medlen, Freddie Freeman (and whoever else Frank Wren needs to include to make it a fair trade) would be worth exploring. CENTERING does not mean “only” those 2 players.
As far as Kyle Blanks is concerned, he has outfield written all over him. Dude cant play a lick of first base. He has about as much potential to play quality first base as Adam Dunn does.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
3:51 pm
TnBrian…………The Braves will not have to “mortgage the farm” in order to make a good trade. The Padres arent going to contend for a couple of years anyway.
Again, I never said that the Padres were going to trade Adrian Gonzalez. I said that the Braves have some interesting pieces to attract the interest of the Padres “should” they want to trade Gonzalez for prospects. It is worth exploring from the Braves perspective.
Worst case scenario, nothing happens. I seriously doubt that Frank Wren is going to overpay and give up Hanson or Heyward in a trade. Frank Wren’s track record in making trades is very good.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
3:52 pm
The Padres are not going to trade Adrian Gonzalez. He’s cheap, young, talented, and very popular in the community
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
3:55 pm
ugaaccountant…………$2.3 mil for a back-up second baseman who wont get much playing time unless Prado gets hurt or turns out to be a bust…….AND……….Omar Infante gets hurt or has to fill in for another injured player as well………..is not a “bargain”.
Sure, Kelly Johnson had a couple of decent stretches in 2007 and 2008. However, as I’ve said before, baseball is a sport of making adjustments. Some players can, many cant make the adjustments necessary to prolong a career in baseball.
3 years ago, who thought that Austin Kearns would turn into a BUST?
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
3:59 pm
cabravesfan……….Again, I never said that the Padres were going to trade Gonzalez.
However I’m sure that the Padres also recognize that it is probably going to be 3 or 4 years before they can realistically contend. They have a number of holes to fill on that team. You cant tell me that they would not be interested in acquiring a young starting pitcher who will be under their control for 3 pre-arbitration years with potential (Kris Medlen) or a power hitting “natural” first baseman in Freddie Freeman…..along with whatever else Frank Wren were to dangle.
Again, it’s worth exploring. The “worst” thing they can do is say “no”.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
4:08 pm
Paul that comment was not directed at you- just a general comment regarding the conversation…
AustinBrave
October 23rd, 2009
4:11 pm
Would you do a trade with JJ for Adrian Gonzales? Maybe something to think about!!
Daslied
October 23rd, 2009
4:14 pm
Paul, so you’d say the trade was centered around Freeman and Medlen, and Hanson or Heyward is a throw-in? Or are you being purposefully vague in order to easily “clarify” when questioned?
Ir doesn’t matter what position YOU think Blanks is suited for, by the way.
Eware
October 23rd, 2009
4:15 pm
Man, DOB, I wish I was eating some BBQ with you. I miss my Memphis joints – Rendezvous!!! I live in South Alabama now and they have terrible barbeque – mainly due to the mustard-based sauce. Come on, it’s gotta be vinegar-based! Mustard is un-American.
I didn’t realize that Kansas City had good barbeque til I ate at KC Pit Barbeque in Sandy Springs (when I lived in Atlanta). That place was pretty good.
I mentioned it before, but the new Will Hoge song “Even if it Breaks your Heart” is my favorite song that’s been released this year.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
4:15 pm
Paul, I just realized that you are Dwight from “The Office”.
You’re right! He’s annoying, he thinks he’s more smart and important than he really is…
CB
October 23rd, 2009
4:16 pm
Bowman has a story up on the Braves site that they are in negotiations with Hudson for a 3yr contract believed to be around 27-29mil. I would love to see the Braves attempt to sign Vazquez for a contract similar to that,then attempt to trade Lowe if possible. I know this thought will be ridiculed, but I wonder if the Braves might consider using Jurrjens as a closer,similar to Smoltz.
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
4:16 pm
Here is another statement you made, basically saying KJ had good years in 07 and 08 and he would be a candidate for up to $4 mil in arbitration.
“Many of you forget that a salary arbitrator often takes into account past seasons when deciding whether to side with the player or team’s salary request.”
So what is it, big guy? Has Kelly in fact had very good seasons the last two years (which you previously denied) or do you just not understand the arbitration process? And if Kelly has had good seasons in the past, would it not be a good calculated risk to sign him for 2.5MM or whatever the number is?
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
4:18 pm
But he’s essential to the fun
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
4:19 pm
I don’t know if anyone has noted this:
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091023&content_id=7535572&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
4:19 pm
Has Kelly in fact had very good seasons the last two years (which you previously denied)
It’s painfully obvious, Steve. If you take away about 40 of Kelly’s hits in 2008, he had a terrible season. Paul’s been kind enough to point this out before.
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
4:20 pm
Lentz – Johnson would likely be 1st off the bench before Infante for any injury except SS or CF. Kelly could play LF and Prado could play 1b, 3b or RF. This is based off Bobby’s most recent quotes. Doesn’t matter if you or I think he’s good or not, Bobby likes him a lot.
And if Bobby is just blowing smoke and really is just supporting a trade, then a KJ at 2.3 million is a nicer trade piece than nothing.
Basically, Kelly is an extremely nice insurance policy at 2.3 million. Just because we have another one in Infante doesn’t mean Kelly wouldn’t be used alot. For instance, look at how many at bats Brooks Conrad and Diory Hernandez got this year, plus Kelly’s at bats after Prado won the job. We were rather injury prone as a team in 09. But imagine if we were caught with long term injuries like the mets were?
A minimum of 2 good utility players actually worth playing should be kept. I strongly prefer Kelly to Church if for no other reason than Kelly has more trade value should say Schaefer and Heyward force their way into our lineup.
As you said earlier, you’d prefer another solid MRP. I value a 2nd utility guy more than a 2nd MRP (Moylan being first). A major reason for that is I find O’Flaherety and Medlen to already be solid MRP’s. I think ultimately Frank will agree based on how Bobby typically uses his pen. Bobby locks onto a handful of guys, so unless we buy someone clearly better than O’flaherety he won’t get meaningful innings.
Bay Area Steve
October 23rd, 2009
4:20 pm
The “worst” thing they can do is say “no”.
Would someone please explain the intended meaning of this “posting?”
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
4:21 pm
cabravesfan – you need to do a macro for your Adrian Gonzalez comment so you don’t have to retype it so often
Redwave73
October 23rd, 2009
4:24 pm
Hooray!! The Phils put the Doggers out of their misery so no more screaming from Chip Caray. I can’t believe TBS couldn’t have found someone else to do their telecasts–takes him 10 words to just say “Hello”
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
4:24 pm
JJ + more for Gonzalez is actually a deal I think might work for both sides, depending on the + more and the budget constraints.
I don’t understand the JJ as a closer notion. I don’t see how his skills would be suited to the pen, and I find he’s at worst our #3 starter so he wouldn’t be the one in danger of losing his job.
CB
October 23rd, 2009
4:26 pm
BAS, Paul is secretly Durwood Fincher,Mr. Double Talk.
Fleming
October 23rd, 2009
4:27 pm
takes him 10 words to just say “Hello”
Sounds like Paul
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
4:27 pm
VJ-
Not like it would matter…
Bay Area Steve
October 23rd, 2009
4:28 pm
Anybody here watch Tosh.0 on Comedy Central? Good stuff.
Anywho, he was showin’ a drunk UGA fan last night, who looked like he, and his fellow fanatics, had been convered in flour. Would someone mind explaining what that ritual is? Do they just paint themselves white or somethin’?
Oh, and Thrashers lose tomorrow. Bad. NHL’ll probably consider contraction again. 15-1, minimum.
CB
October 23rd, 2009
4:29 pm
ugaaccountant,not really saying it is the way I would want to go with JJ. Best alternative is trading Lowe and signing Vazquez to an extension.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
4:30 pm
The “worst” thing they can do is say “no”.
I love it when Paul tries to emphasize words by putting them in quotes.
Bay Area Steve
October 23rd, 2009
4:32 pm
ugaaccountant,
I ain’t trading JJ, for AG, but do ya think the Braves’d have to add more? I guess I overvalue pitching, or Braves players, but I think straight-up is purty even value, without actually looking at it, in any depth. Stat dudes, opinions? or thoughts, for scoots.
And, ugaaccountant, loved the line the other day about blog-tone. I forgot it now; I’d love to see it again.
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
4:33 pm
ugaaccountant……..your 3:13pm posting misses the point. Lentz
cabravesfan……….Again, I never said that the Padres were going to trade Gonzalez Lentz
TnBrian…………The Braves will not have to “mortgage the farm” in order to make a good trade Lentz
KeyLargo……………So again, I’ve shown that you are pretty selective when it comes to your interpretation on what I say. You conveniently point out selected posts I make, without taking into account previous postings that laid the groundwork for subsequent postings. Lentz
Daslied……….your 3:15pm posting shows that you, again, are very selective in your comprehension of what I say. Lentz
Does anyone see a pattern developing? KeyLargo
DAP
October 23rd, 2009
4:35 pm
Would you do a trade with JJ for Adrian Gonzales? Maybe something to think about!!
i wouldnt do that. im very attached to our young pitching.
Bay Area Steve
October 23rd, 2009
4:38 pm
Only pattern I can see clearly is that he’s a rumbletard, a know-it-all, and a jerkish-nutbag, wrapped in the guise of an insufferable fool.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
4:41 pm
Is that still comparing him to Dwight, or were you just ranting?
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
4:44 pm
om om om om om om om om om om om om …………………………….
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
4:49 pm
Paulie, how do you know I’m from the south? How do you know anything about me other than a blog handle and some opinions?
My earlier point was Lowe is likely trade bait. Johnson may rebound, but probably not as a Brave.
Not interested in debating how many angels dance on the head of a pin. Just want to obtain a righthanded power bat, if possible, to improve the offense.
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
4:50 pm
Keep the young arms. Jurrjens is worth more than a bat, and so is Hanson.
The Blogger Formerly Known as Billy
October 23rd, 2009
4:53 pm
Wow, trade JJ? Will not happen, unless…..nope will not happen.
ncscoots
October 23rd, 2009
4:55 pm
Only pattern I can see clearly is that he’s a rumbletard, a know-it-all, and a jerkish-nutbag, wrapped in the guise of an insufferable fool.
Oh, I don’t know. I see him more as a hormone-addled 13-year-old with visions of grandeur, that the most ravaged, hungriest, homeless cur dog would turn away from, if offered his hand.
But, I guess I could be erring on the high side, a little.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
4:56 pm
I wouldn’t mind trading JJ for a bat if it was a good bat and not just a rental
jk10
October 23rd, 2009
4:57 pm
mlbtraderumors is reporting that extension talks have begun with Hudson.
DAP
October 23rd, 2009
4:57 pm
its interesting how this hudson situation is playing out. many of us were hoping that we could keep hudson and trade kenshin or lowe. i for one didnt think this was possible. i figured that we just wouldnt be able to keep huddy, because lowe wasnt tradeable, and KK was alot of trouble to get, so they would be reluctant to trade him.
but what we were hoping for is happening. huddy could be getting extended, and if he does, either lowe or kenshin is more than likely out of here.
i think wren is going to make this work, and we are going to have one heck of a team in place for 2010.
Daslied
October 23rd, 2009
4:59 pm
“You conveniently point out selected posts I make, without taking into account previous postings that laid the groundwork for subsequent postings.”
Wow. So you’re like…wow. I didn’t realize you were so multi-layered. Wow. Paul is the blog onion.
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
5:00 pm
So you’re saying that if we take away Kelly’s good AB and look only at his bad AB that his stats will look bad? A bold assertation. (STEVE)
yup, taking away those 6 ABs would leave nothing but bad stuff to look at OK.
Daslied
October 23rd, 2009
5:02 pm
Blog lettuce?
Blettuce. Blonion.
rms
October 23rd, 2009
5:04 pm
What about Greg Norton??
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
5:04 pm
Got to believe that Wren would put priority on moving Lowe if he signs Hudson. Just guessing on the market for him, but I could see the Cubs or Cards or Tigers having some interest in him. Not sure on the return from those teams, though.
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
5:04 pm
Only pattern I can see clearly is that he’s a rumbletard, a know-it-all, and a jerkish-nutbag, wrapped in the guise of an insufferable fool.BAS
If you are going to taunt someone with a well thought out, descriptive post like that, you could top it off with smiling, grinning emoticon to show him just how you feel.
Mister Green is very easy to make
: mrgreen :
Just delete the spaces and you have him. Colon,mrgreen,colon – no spaces.
DAP
October 23rd, 2009
5:07 pm
jeff r, i was just daydreaming about trading lowe to the yankees for swisher, eating a small piece of lowe’s contract.
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
5:08 pm
“a hormone-addled 13-year-old with visions of grandeur…”
I’m more inclined to visualize Chucky with less common sense and less charm.
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
5:09 pm
DAP… I’d go for that…
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
5:09 pm
Still like a Lowe/Ordonez swap. DOB, what would you think of a trade like that? I’m smart enough to know it will be tough, tough to trade Lowe because of, well, more than one reason. But, two pretty bad contracts, good deals for both sides.
rammerjammer
October 23rd, 2009
5:11 pm
DAP,
That’s a scenario I could live with.
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
5:13 pm
It amazes me how many people write out proposed lineups in any order. I mean, what is that? (RHR)
that is a young male baseball fan’s rite of passage. Even I did the same when I was 14, there just wasn’t an internet around for me to enlighten anybody else with my ‘knowledge’. In fact there weren’t any computers around to do it on either. Slide rule ruled.
CB
October 23rd, 2009
5:15 pm
nolie, I thought when you were a young man a dinosaur ruled.
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
5:16 pm
Looks like I didn’t get my long answer posted. But basically the + more for Gonzalez depends on the length and dollars of his contract, which I don’t know. I’m assuming it’s at least 2 years or he wouldn’t be mentioned so often.
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
5:17 pm
If Wren’s plan is to “Get Better”, then why is our biggest problem still with us – Bobby Cox??? (Don)
I’m guessing that Donald is Robert’s middle name. He’s certainly as Cox-obsessed
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
5:19 pm
TnBrian – I’m just asking, but why would you trade a guy who won 15 games and pitched 200 innings for a guy who hit 310/.376/.428/.804 with 9 HR’s in 131 games? Plus he makes $18 Mill. I just can’t see that it would make the Braves a better team.
Matt Diaz had better stats in every category and will make about $2.5 mill this year.
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
5:25 pm
Nolie
I wrote a “nice” post to Don earlier, but the blog ate it. I’ve never seen this guy post anything but Cox rants.
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
5:28 pm
trading with the padres and expecting reasonable demands, where have I heard that before? I just can’t (peavy) remember (Hanson) when that last happened. (Uga Acc)
Towers is gone ain’t he?
StingerSplash
October 23rd, 2009
5:32 pm
Lot of talk in Boston that Bay won’t be brought back. He’s looking for a five-year deal (allegedly!).
He might break the bank, but if Frank Wren is really looking to upgrade the offense, he might be the guy to do it. Good power, patient hitter. Struck out a bunch this year and is no second coming of Rick Miller in the outfield — but he’s no Manny or Klesko, either. By all accounts, he’s also a good dude on and off the field (played college ball at Gonzaga … wonder how many times he passed by the statue of Bing Crosby and patronized Jack and Dan’s ….).
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
5:36 pm
nolie, I thought when you were a young man a dinosaur ruled. (CB)
actually I was around for the transitional phase
DAP
October 23rd, 2009
5:37 pm
Stingersplash im not sure if i would give bay 5 years either. if boston wont do it, who will?
Travis
October 23rd, 2009
5:38 pm
Was it Boston or La where Lowe got the very warm reception? They really seemed to like him in Boston as I remember. They have the payroll flexability and a pretty good closer as I remember. Hmm
Travis
October 23rd, 2009
5:40 pm
Hope it’s ok to rant like an idiot outloud…Don’t want Preacher Roe to asassinate me again.
ugaaccountant
October 23rd, 2009
5:41 pm
I figure even with Towers gone, the basic organizational philosophy in San Diego will remain. They still are a long way from contending and probably stll prefer to acquire the young cheap talent of the world.
Travis
October 23rd, 2009
5:41 pm
Ya know what, just disregard the post. I think they hated Lowe in Boston.
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
5:43 pm
They still are a long way from contending and probably stll prefer to acquire the young cheap talent of the world (Uga Acc)
I think that’s likely true
Lew
October 23rd, 2009
5:49 pm
Let Hudson walk. Let Kelly Johnson and Church walk. Take the money and go get a damned bat. It really isn’t all that hard to figure out.
DAP
October 23rd, 2009
5:55 pm
so far lew, it doesnt look like thats what is going to happen. i think if wren senses any trade market at all for either lowe or kawakami, huddy is coming back.
Lew
October 23rd, 2009
6:02 pm
We’ll see. The shortest distance between two points…….
Jeff R
October 23rd, 2009
6:06 pm
Seems to be the scenario, DAP. Hudson is younger than Lowe, as we all know, and his contract would cost the Braves less. The key is then to offload Lowe’s contract and get a power hitter in return who’s worth it.
That’s tougher to do, but that seems to be where Wren is heading.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
6:08 pm
Bowman is going to be Hudson’s next victim if he keeps “breaking news”…………..
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
6:10 pm
We’ll see. The shortest distance between two points …….
A Paul Lentz thought and his keyboard?
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
6:23 pm
Would you guys make this deal?
Red Sox get:
Yunel Escobar – SS
Braves get:
Daniel Bard – RP
Jose Iglesias – SS
http://www.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=SS&sid=l119&t=p_pbp&pid=578428
Ryan Westmorland –
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=DH&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=543910
Rob from SC
October 23rd, 2009
6:26 pm
I have not be posting because my shoulder is still in a sling, but I have been keeping track of the old blog. Under no circumstances should Escobar be traded. He plays with passion and fire which is something this team certainly lacks. He is a superstar in the making. I love what Esco and Prado bring to this team
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
6:27 pm
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
6:23 pm
No
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
6:29 pm
How is the ‘ol shoulder doing, Rob?
N8
October 23rd, 2009
6:29 pm
Lew, welcome to the “why does it have to be such a difficult decision even though it’s just my opinion” club.
This is how I feel about Chipper batting 3rd, and how I felt about KJ leading off to start the year (not even getting into him starting over Prado). In the end it’s just our opinions as fans. But you seem as fired up about this as you have been about anything in a while.
I don’t agree with you. Letting Hudson “walk” and just going to get a bat (I’ll assume you mean on the free agent market?), is third in my list of options.
1st would be to re-sign Hudson and Vazquez to extensions and trade Lowe. If the figures of around 9 million are accurate for Hudson over 3 years, why as a Braves fan would you NOT want the Braves to do that? They could STILL go get a bat with the money, even if Lowe was nothing more than a salary dump, and would have 6 more million to spend on said bat by ridding themselves of Lowe’s 15 million dollar salary.
The second option would be to re-sign Hudson, keep Lowe and go get a really good bat/glove by trading Vazquez. I think it’s within reality to dream of a possible Derek Lee for Vazquez type of swap. Not sure what else it would take. But Cubs need pitching, and Lee would certainly fill the void in between now and when Freeman comes up. He’s RH, hits for power and plays GG defense.
Then comes your option, imo. The ONLY reason to remotely consider your option is if you think that Hudson won’t hold up over the 3 years. If you’re of the belief that he’ll be medically sound, I cannot think of one good reason why you would rather have Lowe over Hudson. Not one.
As for trading KK? I don’t think it’s a wise move. He’s a steal at around 7 million per year the next couple of years. Who knows? Perhaps Wren is willing to trade BOTH Lowe and KK, and go into next year with a rotation of Hudson, Vazquez, Hanson and JJJ (at around 25 million per year combined over the next couple of years), finding an option at the 5th starter spot, and waiting for Minor.
Hard to say what Wren is going to do. But at this point, I don’t see Tim Hudson NOT being in a Braves uniform next year.
So you might as well get used to it Lew.
N8
October 23rd, 2009
6:31 pm
Jay212033’s & BatMasterson’s back-2-back posts at 6:08 and 6:10 both made me laugh pretty hard.
Good stuff guys.
Rob from SC
October 23rd, 2009
6:36 pm
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
6:29 pm
How is the ‘ol shoulder doing, Rob?
It is healing slowly. Had the stitches out Monday, but need to wear the brace until Nov 13. The shoulder feels really stiff
Rob from SC
October 23rd, 2009
6:39 pm
any news on when Heyward will play again.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
6:42 pm
I really like Esco as well but most people here don’t and as soon as he makes a mistake or doesn’t talk to the media he’s public enemy #1! Plus I can almost bet that most of you didn’t even check the guys stats invloved. We’d be receiving a potential closer, a 19y.o. above average defensive SS who’s bat is really coming along and another Jason Heyward.
Rob from SC
October 23rd, 2009
6:44 pm
Jay212033
Escobar plays a premium position. I know the guys you mentioned.
Jake W.
October 23rd, 2009
6:51 pm
Jay212033
I still wouldn’t make the trade but that doesn’t even matter because the red sox wouldn’t make the trade. Why would they?
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
6:52 pm
Brandon Hicks is 2-4 with a walk today. Freeman is 2-5 with a double and a K.
Lee Hyde gave up 2 walks and a homer and recorded only 1 out in his outing. He had been nearly perfect to that point.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
6:52 pm
So does Iglesias who would be his replacement. From all reports his defense is second to none and his bat is improving and he’s only 19(will be 20 in Jan.). So if we could get a closer, a younger Escobar and a salt version of Heyward you still wouldn’t make that deal?
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
6:56 pm
The Sox would make the trade because they need an established ML SS. Iglesias is still unproven at this point and Westmoreland is too far away. Bard is the only ML player they would be giving up.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
6:57 pm
P. W. Hjort
They had Hyde recording 2 outs.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
6:57 pm
Steve from OH………..If Kelly Johnson is slated to be a back-up second baseman (not only is Martin Prado starting at 2nd……but Omar Infante is available should Prado get hurt or show that last year was a fluke).
Knowing that, why would the Braves knowingly waste $2.5 mil on Kelly Johnson if they dont have plans to use him in any other manner than pinch hitter? Because you certainly cant use Kelly as a late inning defensive replacement (unless you want to weaken your defense late in games).
While Greg Norton SUCKED A$$ as a pinch hitter, at least he only cost the Braves $800K in 2009.
If the Braves were confident enough in Kelly to give him a chance to play second base, then I could see them taking a chance and paying him $2.5 mil (as you suggest). However, from the way things look, Kelly will be spending most of the year on the bench.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
6:59 pm
Excuse me, Hyde recorded 2 outs.
CB
October 23rd, 2009
7:00 pm
N8,good post at 6:29pm,we are really going to find out how good a GM Wren is if he is able to get value for Lowe. I think signing Hudson at the salary they are talking about wiuld be a good move,giving the Braves app.6 mil per year extra to put toward budget. We need to talk to our friends in Detroit about trade possibilities.
Jake W.
October 23rd, 2009
7:03 pm
Jay212033
So the question still would be why would we make that trade? Braves feel they are a few key additions away from having a playoff caliber team so lets trade away our best and most consistent offensive player from the 2009 season for an unproven in Iglesias and Westmoreland who is still far off. Not to mention Boston thinks Bard can be their closer one day.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
7:03 pm
ugaaccountant……..your 4:20pm is neglecting the point that Kelly Johnson isnt going to re-sign with the Braves for $2.3 mil. I’d be willing to bet anyone on here $100 that if Kelly re-signs with the Braves (whether by negotiations before the Braves deciding whether offering him salary arbitration……..or by an arbitrator)…….that he WILL NOT get less than $3 mil.
If the Braves non-tender Kelly, then it is a moot point. However, if Kelly Johnson is wearing a Braves uniform come Spring Training, then I’ll wager anyone on here $100 that his 2010 contract wont be for less than $3 mil. That is how confident in my knowledge of the arbitration process (and any negotiations before the Braves officially decide whether to even tender Kelly a contract).
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
7:05 pm
P. W. Hjort
I wasn’t trying to be smart.
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
7:11 pm
Jay212033,
I didn’t refresh the blog before I corrected myself. I didn’t see your post. You are correct, Hyde recorded 2 outs.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
7:12 pm
Jake W.
Actually Iglesias is not far off and will be in Boston next season. For the Braves it would fill a huge hole in the bullpen and with all the GB pitchers we have Iglesias would still provide great D at SS. The Braves would then be able to sign a Holliday or Bay without having to worry much about the BP. Plus they would still have several pieces to trade as well.
Paul Lentz
October 23rd, 2009
7:13 pm
I’d rather keep Derek Lowe and use Kawakami as a middle reliever…….than to trade him for garbage and eating part of his contract.
Whether it is in Spring Training or during the season, some team is going to be desperate enough to trade for starting pitching. Also, injuries happen.
I’m amazed that some of you on here act like Lowe is Barry Zito. Now Zito’s contract is virtually untradeable.
Jake W.
October 23rd, 2009
7:18 pm
Jay212033
Thats a big assumption right there that we would be able to sign Holliday or Bay. What happens if those two players choose other destinations similar to the way CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett did last offseason. Now we are without our best and most consistent offensive player from 2009 who isn’t an unproven like Iglesias. Not to mention I don’t think Boston is really looking to trade Bard right now which was my whole point in the first place. Its not a trade I think either team would make.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
7:41 pm
So say if we were to trade Escobar to Boston for Bard, Iglesias and Westmoreland.
We could then trade for a guy like Adrian Gonzalez, we could then offer Kawakami, Medlen, Freeman/Westmoreland, Rohrbough and B. Jones
Sign Jason Bay/Matt Holliday – 6 yr/90 mil contract.
Extend Tim Hudson – 3 yr/27 mil and Javy Vazquez – 4 yr/48 mil.
Re-sign Mike Gonzalez – 3 yr/15 mil.
Lineup:
McLouth – CF
Prado – 2B
Chipper – 3B
Gonzalez – 1B
Bay/Holliday – LF
McCann – C
Heyward – RF
Iglesias – SS
Bench:
Ross – C
Diaz – OF
Infante – Super Utility
Conrad – 2B
Young – OF
Starting Rotation:
Vazquez – SP
Hudson – SP
Jurrjens – SP
Lowe – SP
Hanson – SP
Bullpen:
Parr/Redmond – LRP
Hyde – MRP
Acosta – MRP
O’Flaherty – MRP
Moylan – SUP
Bard – SUP
Gonzalez – CP
McFann Ô
October 23rd, 2009
7:46 pm
ncscoots I’ve never recovered.
Haha, I don’t blame you…
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
7:55 pm
Paul Lentz -
All I see you doing is talking about how it’s a “waste of money” to have Kelly Johnson on the bench, yet you present no empirical evidence to suggest why it would be a waste of money.
Production is production, no matter where it comes from. If it comes from your ace or the 13th pitcher on your staff, the MVP 1st baseman or the 3rd string utility player, it’s all the same. It’s not worth more because of the player’s position, it is what it is.
Hypothetically speaking, let’s say the Braves offer Kelly Johnson arbitration and he comes out of the negotiations/hearing with a $3.6 million 2010 salary. Just make that assumption and stay with me, we’re in hypothetical land right now.
What, then, would he have to do to be worth that $3.6 million salary? Assuming clubs pay $4.5 million per WAR (as they did in 2008 and 2009), he’d have to be worth 0.8 WAR or 8 runs above replacement.
We’ll assume that between pinch-hitting, defensive replacements, spot starts, and getting in there for injured players, Kelly gets 300 PA’s. Could be more, could be less. I doubt they’d use him for less than 300 PA’s, though.
Anyway, let’s also assume he plays 600 defensive innings. Since his bat is more valuable than his glove, you’re more inclined to give him a high PA/DI ratio. Let’s also assume every one of those innings is at 2B. It isn’t inconceivable to assume he’d play one of the corner OF spots or even SS in a pinch, but I think he’d probably be generally limited to 2B.
For my purposes, I’ll create two scenarios. One where he performs like he has in his career and one where he performs like he did in 2009 with the bat. It’s extremely reasonable to think that the truth is a lot closer to his career numbers for very intuitive reasons. Plus just looking at his BABIP and other hit-luck metrics, you’ll see that he’s due to regress towards the mean in 2010, which is a lot better than 2009. But for conservatism’s sake, let’s just do two scenarios.
In the first, we’ll give him a .340 wOBA, his career mark. In that case, he’s 2 runs above average. Add 10 runs for replacement level over those 300 PA’s and you’ve got 12 runs above replacement with the bat.
wOBA includes SB runs, but it doesn’t include non SB base running. Over the past 3 years, he’s averaged just over +2 non-SB EqBRR, so add two runs on top of the 12 and you’re 14 runs above replacement level offensively.
According to +/-, he’s worth -1 (slightly less than this, but I’m being conservative here) run over 600 innings.
Figure in the positional adjustment (it’s really +1.25 but we’ll call it +1) and he’s a +14 run player or +1.4 win player. Clubs pay $6.3 for that player, even as a bench player.
Now, let’s assume he performs like he did in 2009 with the bat, .306 wOBA. This would be worth 6 runs below average over 300 PA’s. Add the 10 replacement runs, the 2 non-SB base running runs, the positional adjustment, and subtract the fielding, and you’ve got a +6 run player, or 0.6 wins. Clubs pay $2.7 million for this player. He wouldn’t be worth his salary in that instance.
Exactly how good does he have to be with the bat to be worth his salary, assuming he plays 600 defensive innings and gets 300 PA’s? Well, we need 8 runs total. You get 10 from replacement, 2 from base running, 1 for positional, and -1 for defense. So -4 runs compared to average with the bat makes him exactly worth his salary. A .317 wOBA gives him -4 runs over 300 PA’s. The question then becomes, what are the chances that Kelly Johnson posts a .317 wOBA or better?
Well, he posted a .323 wOBA in 2005, a .363 wOBA in 2007, and a .346 wOBA in 2008. His .306 wOBA in 2009 is a product of some fairly awful hit-luck. In fact, that BABIP is .064 points lower than his career average. Give him even half of the BABIP difference back and he’s worth more than that $3.6 million figure I submitted.
I used extremely conservative measures in all of these calculations. Basically, I think it’s overwhelmingly probable that Kelly Johnson would be worth more than whatever potential salary he would receive in arbitration. Johnson is the same player he was in 2008 minus a great deal of luck. If that doesn’t rear it’s ugly head again, there’s no reason he can’t be a very valuable commodity.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
7:56 pm
Jake W.
It’s just an idea, I know it’s not possible just an idea. Here are some ideas that could possibly happen though.
Derek Lowe, Brandon Jones and Cole Rohrbough to the Astros for Carlos Lee.
Kelly Johnson and Manny Acosta to the Diamondbacks for Conner Jackson.
Sign Latroy Hawkins – 3 yr/12 mil contract.
Extend Tim Hudson – 3 yr/27 mil and Javy Vazquez – 4 yr/48 mil.
Re-sign Mike Gonzalez – 3 yr/15 mil contract.
Mark
October 23rd, 2009
8:04 pm
Heard on XM radio this morning that the Braves are in talks with a few teams involving Lowe. Two of those teams are in serious talks with Atlanta. Look for D-Lowe to be wearing another uni in 2010. Gotta go,,,,
Mark
October 23rd, 2009
8:07 pm
Forgot, one of those teams is the Astros is what they said as one of the more serious teams involved. Others they just aren’t sure, but speculated Boston or Detroit. Bye for now,,,,
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
8:13 pm
The Sox would make the trade because they need an established ML SS. Iglesias is still unproven at this point and Westmoreland is too far away. Jay
So the Sox need a ML SS to contend? Where does that leave the Braves with Iglesias who in your own words is “still unproven”? You don’t think the Braves are planning on contending next year?
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
8:28 pm
I feel cabravesfan coming on…
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
8:29 pm
Jay-
If the Padres are trying to slash payroll (and that would be the only reason they would trade Gonzalez) why on earth would they trade for someone that is making almost $2 million more then Gonzalez next year??
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
8:29 pm
keylargo
So with that team I posted above you don’t think we’d compete?
CB
October 23rd, 2009
8:31 pm
Why do I feel VJ is really Ed McMahon?
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
8:31 pm
If they can’t afford to take on 2 mil then they need to be contracted plus they shed the payroll the needed when they traded Peavy.
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
8:31 pm
Jay – my question to you is why does Boston need a MLB SS but the Braves don’t?
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
8:33 pm
Jay12033 – why would they want to trade their best player? Top make you happy?
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
8:33 pm
To make
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
8:33 pm
Jay-
my point was that if they are going to trade Gonzalez, it will NOT be to take on more payroll- they would trade him for a slew of prospects…they are not going to contend for a few years, they know it, and they are acting accordingly…that being said, I feel there is no way they trade him at all.
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
8:35 pm
CB – the phone is a marvelous invention – won’t need it a week from tonight…
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
8:42 pm
Lineup:
McLouth – CF
Prado – 2B
Chipper – 3B
Gonzalez – 1B
Bay/Holliday – LF
McCann – C
Heyward – RF
Iglesias – SS
First, in this you wouldn’t miss a Yunel Escobar. Second, we don’t know what Iglesias would give us offensively but defensively form all reports he’s second to none!
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
8:51 pm
Do you two make fun of us over the phone?
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
8:52 pm
Soph-
Not you
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
8:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUu6Y5_xysQ
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
8:52 pm
Define “us”
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
8:52 pm
jay, I had no clue Enrique Iglesias played SS for a minor league club.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
8:53 pm
What would they make fun of, Soph? Did you read Shultz’s piece on Mat Ryan?
keylargo
October 23rd, 2009
8:53 pm
Second, we don’t know what Iglesias would give us offensively but defensively form all reports he’s second to none! Jay
Sounds like Brent Lillibridge to me.
No way the Braves go into the season with an unproven 19 year old at SS. The Braves have absolutely no one in the minors to come in if the kid can’t cut it. Like you said, Boston won’t do it and neither will the Braves.
Jay212033
October 23rd, 2009
8:59 pm
I that offense Brent Lillibridge is all you would need but he’s far from Lillibridge his bat is much better that that. Think Omar Vizquel
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:00 pm
cab – good because that would hurt my feelings.
Define “us”
VJ – so you do make fun of some of us! It’s ok, sometimes it’s well-deserved.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:02 pm
Bat – I’m sure they laugh at you know who. I don’t want to get him started so I won’t say the name.
I haven’t read the Schultz piece but I’ll check it out.
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:03 pm
Soph – I have no idea (postbeforeyou) who we would make fun of…just general philosophies…
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
9:04 pm
Soph-
I can provide names…
CB
October 23rd, 2009
9:07 pm
“I” take “Offense” that anybody would laugh at “Us”.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:08 pm
VJ –
lol, I had a feeling that person was on the list. He has cab going today.
cab -
You should provide initials! We can make it a guessing game. That would be fun.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
9:10 pm
Soph-
I think that would be way too easy
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:10 pm
Bat – good piece by Schultz. Dungy compared Ryan to Peyton – that’s pretty cool.
Ryan = cool as a cucumber. That’s why I love him.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:13 pm
cab -
Well I figured someone whose name starts with P is on the list. I would put the last name’s initial too but that would give it away. Although the P will probabaly give it away…
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:15 pm
CB – I never laugh at you – now, cabravesfan, on the other hand – well, you know how young people can be…
And, I think we all know the most likely candidate for “us”
CB
October 23rd, 2009
9:19 pm
VJ, any good food in Savannah that you would recommend- our next trip in Nov.?
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
9:19 pm
VJ’s right- I laugh at him all the time
Soph-
the list would be long and distinguished…well, long anyways
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
9:19 pm
Yeah, I enjoyed it too, and to think, I had major reservations about drafting him. Shows what I know. Some of the commentary kills me, such vitriol. Oh well, same as it ever was, I suppose.
CB
October 23rd, 2009
9:21 pm
cab, should we make a top 10 list?
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:22 pm
CB – I can handle Virginia a lot better than Georgia – I have made one trip to Savannah, in conjunction with a Myrtle Beach trip from Richmond, about 10 years ago.
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:23 pm
CB – I lied – that was Charleston – the last time I was in Savannah was probably 2983
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:23 pm
1983
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:24 pm
Bat – I was all for it when they drafted him! I know a lot of people wanted to draft Glenn Dorsey.
I was watching Sportscenter today and almost everyone picked the Cowboys this weekend. Apparently, Romo’s going to have a breakout game.
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:24 pm
I hear you!
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
9:24 pm
CB-
depends on if you feel like spending all night hearing about it from those we chose to honor…
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:24 pm
1983! My year.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
9:25 pm
2983? Wow, what’s the future like? Do the Braves ever win the World Series again? What about my Trojans?
CB
October 23rd, 2009
9:25 pm
VJ, no problem. You guys probably think I weigh about 800 lbs the way I talk about food,not big at all.
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:25 pm
Soph – I wonder who the San Francisco experts are picking…
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:25 pm
depends on if you feel like spending all night hearing about it from those we chose to honor…
Oh, it’ll be worth it! Come onnnn – do it! I know who #1 is. Any bets?
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:27 pm
Soph – interestingly, I picked the Niners and weighted them more highly than my opponent in our weekly pool…
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:27 pm
Ugh, VJ – let’s not get him started on his precious ‘boys. Although, I hope he’s hanging out here on Sunday if the Falcons win. That would be fun.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
9:28 pm
That’s because I actually watch them play
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
9:28 pm
Soph – there is Geoffrey Q, or whatever his name is – don’t quite get him…
CB
October 23rd, 2009
9:29 pm
cab, they probably already know, most rears know they are.
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
9:29 pm
Obviously dismissing the Falcons is in vogue. Perhaps a Super Bowl ring, and a sleeveless hoodie for coach Smith, would put an end to it.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:30 pm
Geoffrey! I know him. The Toys R Us giraffe, right?
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
9:33 pm
By the way, he spells his name jeffrii dii these days. Torii Hunter style.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
9:43 pm
CB-
somehow, I just don’t think they do
brian
October 23rd, 2009
9:44 pm
someone explain to me why Boston is having Casey Kelly in the AFL as a SS. That is such a waste. I think it is obvious to everyone but Kelly himself that his future in baseball is as a pitcher
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
9:50 pm
What about my Trojans? (CBF)
double check B4 use
Bat Masterson
October 23rd, 2009
9:52 pm
brian, I’m sure I read they would give him a shot at SS if he signed.
Ed McMahon
October 23rd, 2009
9:52 pm
and dead
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
9:53 pm
nolie-
ummm, i don’t follow…
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
9:56 pm
It’s spelled J-E-F-F-R-E-Y. Not with a G.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:01 pm
Yeah, don’t insult Geoffrey the giraffe by associating him with jeffrey/jeffrii.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:03 pm
It’s just preseason but the Hawks looked horrible tonight.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:04 pm
Hey….didn’t Toys ‘R Us go out of business? Geoffrey the giraffe is going through dumpsters nowadays. Or treehouses or something
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
10:04 pm
ummm, i don’t follow…
not the football “Trojans”
guess that one didn’t fly
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:05 pm
Last time I saw the score they were down by about 30 and their leading scorer had 12.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:06 pm
http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2903485#
Nope, they’re still around. And, so is Geoffrey – see link above.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:08 pm
Meadowcreek is winning!
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:10 pm
Meadowcreek is winning!
No way…I just checked the score and it was 35-0
Random
October 23rd, 2009
10:10 pm
RHR (October 23rd, 2009 12:06 pm) –
Et in Arcadia, ego.
PS: Buster Olney? Pffffft.
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
10:11 pm
nolie – she was just putting you on the spot…
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:11 pm
Oh, this is what I was thinking of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toys_R%27_Us#Closure_of_87_stores
But still…when’s the last time you’ve seen a Geoffrey commercial?
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:12 pm
Ok, I was kidding. And, it’s 49-0. Isn’t Grayson supposed to be really good though?
Dacula won vs. Brookwood. They must suck this year.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:14 pm
Do you know why the Dacula/Brookwood score was highlighted in gold on the AJC scores? I mean, I know we’re awesome, but why’d they do that?
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:17 pm
Because it was being broadcast on the radio – 790 AM. They usually highlight the ones that are either game of the week or on tv/radio.
I’m sure they broadcast it because of Brookwood not Dacoooola. So, don’t let it go to your head.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:17 pm
So, don’t let it go to your head.
Uhh, who won?
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:20 pm
I told you – Brookwood sucks this year. Look at them, 4-4? And, one of those 4 wins is against Meadowcreek.
I know y’all beat Parkview and they suck this year too.
Random
October 23rd, 2009
10:20 pm
jeffrey d (October 23rd, 2009 11:06 am): “Keep in mind Chipper was hitting over .330 well into the season. It’s not like he woke up one morning in June and suddenly and permanently felt his age. He was 37 before the slump and he was 37 during the slump. His problems were all mental. For his entire career, save two seasons, he’s been a great hitter. He’ll be fine.”
Good points.
I was with you all the way to “mental”.
I don’t think that was it.
I think it was a combination of fatigue — no days off, ’cause Cox kept players on the ML roster who weren’t able to play and give Jones a blow now and then — and inadequate line-up protection (which imo especially affected his power).
But overall, well done.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:21 pm
By the way, what’s the proper way to say Dacula?
Duh-Q-lah or Duck-oooo-lah
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:24 pm
“duh-q-luh”
Everyone who’s not from here mispronounces it. They think Dracula and call it “dah-q-luh.” Or your second spelling of “duh-koo-luh” Boring story – Dacula got its name because it’s between Decatur and Atlanta so they decided to mix the letters.
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
10:25 pm
I have nothing to compete with high school football commentary – and I will totally miss my guys playing tomorrow, because I am doing two extra hours on the final Saturday GRE class in the ATL – will rely on updates from someone before she heads off to play beer pong…
Crazy Trades McKnee
October 23rd, 2009
10:27 pm
Freeman, McLouth, Medlen, one of R. Delgado/Rohrbough/DevVall, and Canizares for Bam Bam.
Discuss.
Ready? Go.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:27 pm
Scratch that…it’s not between them. Then I don’t know why they picked those two.
McFann Ô
October 23rd, 2009
10:28 pm
Red-bud tree fell across the driveway a few minutes ago. Will have photos up tomorrow.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
10:28 pm
No high school football for me either- the curse of an all-girl school
McFann Ô
October 23rd, 2009
10:29 pm
jeffrey d I mean, I know we’re awesome, but why’d they do that?
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
10:30 pm
As usual, Crazy Trades McGee ahead of the curve…
McFann Ô
October 23rd, 2009
10:32 pm
I never cared too much for Bam-Bam. Really get annoyed with Barney and/or Betty having to get that “it sure is handy having the strongest baby in the world for a son” line in EVERY FREAKING EPISODE…
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
10:33 pm
I vote we deal the farm for Triple T. Because he’s a hitter, not a quitter, baby.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:33 pm
Actually it’s Crazt Trades McKnee. I wonder if they’re related
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:33 pm
crazy*
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:36 pm
I always pronounced it Duh-Q-lah but I think someone tried to correct me one time saying it was the other one – Dacooola. Crazy Gwinnetians.
Random
October 23rd, 2009
10:36 pm
jeffrey d (October 23rd, 2009 11:57 am): “I don’t know, I think clutch stats can be misleading when you’re watching a game live. Bases are loaded with 2 outs, and Chipper strikes out. HUGE disappointment, everyone’s angry, upset, etc. Chipper’s suddenly the biggest loser in the world. But even the best hitters are going to fail about 7 out of 10 times.”
You need to recalibrate your old saws.
Unless you count walks as failures, the best hitters fail only 6 times out of 10, not 7.
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:37 pm
McFann – that’s funny because Pebbles always annoyed me. Didn’t she always say da-da or something?
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:38 pm
Oh you know what I meant.
RHR
October 23rd, 2009
10:38 pm
What up, Random. I haven’t seen your van circling the neighborhood in a while. What? You had to take a road trip to get rid of the bodies?
I’m sleepy.
Oh hey jeffrey, my daughter says you are cute.
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
10:38 pm
Just look like what we’d be like without Triple T.
Get it done, Frank.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:40 pm
Can’t argue with her there
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:42 pm
These Office Linebacker commercials are hilarious. I wonder why they didn’t air?
Random
October 23rd, 2009
10:42 pm
Three cheers for Daslied (October 23rd, 2009 12:07 pm) — well said, sir!
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
10:46 pm
Is it supposed to be rainy like this the whole weekend?
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:49 pm
I thought it was supposed to clear up after tonight.
Random
October 23rd, 2009
10:49 pm
N8 (October 23rd, 2009 12:09 pm): “Here’s an odd stat. It’s actually a very normal stat. It’s the splits of RBI for Chipper in our wins and in our losses. Now, common sense will tell you that your best hitter produces less in the losses than in the wins. But these are rather alarming to me.
“etc, etc.”
Potentially interesting stuff there, but ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS until you baseline the data and compare Jones to all NL qualifiers (and to the Braves’ alternative options for the 3-hole), not to just the frigging NL MVP.
I mean, it’s a good start, but c’mon.
RHR
October 23rd, 2009
10:53 pm
Even I did the same when I was 14, there just wasn’t an internet around for me to enlighten anybody else with my ‘knowledge’.
So thats what those writings on the walls of caves were about.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:55 pm
NICE “Major League” allusion by the Lakers
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Lakers-bench-is-a-creative-bunch?urn=nba,197818
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
10:55 pm
The poll on AJC’s Braves page is this:
Should the Braves not sign first baseman Adam LaRoche, they should go after free agent …
The choices are:
Kevin Millar
Doug Mientkiewicz
Russell Branyan
Nick Johnson
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
10:59 pm
Those choices are terrible
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:05 pm
Yeah, ew to all of them. Especially Millar & Mientky. Seriously?
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:06 pm
I’d rather have Lentz at first base
Random
October 23rd, 2009
11:07 pm
Paul Lentz (October 23rd, 2009 12:38 pm): “keylargo………..Dude, I have always known that the Braves can, in theory, negotiate a contract with Kelly Johnson without offering him salary arbitration.”
Well, it sure sounded like it to me as well that you hadn’t a clue in that regard. My mistake. (I guess.) (Being charitable.)
“However, just because the Braves have the “theoritical” right to negotiate that way……….does not mean that it is a realistic option.”
Sorry, sport — that is the ONLY realistic option for the Braves to retain Johnson.
“As David O’Brien said…..it is VERY RARE for a player to accept a contract at below his previous season’s salary during his arbitration years. The arbitration game stacked in favor of the player. Even if he has an “off year”, a salary arbitrator will factor in previous years when determining the next year’s salary.”
The Braves are not going to even offer Johnson arbitration, you simple doofus. (Unless they’ve already worked out a trade for him.)
“So, knowing that, why would Kelly Johnson give up his right to salary arbitration and accept a contract at 80% of his 2009 salary……..when he can easily get awarded $3.5 or possibly $4 mil in arbitration?”
Johnson has no right to salary arbitration unless the Braves offer it to him. And as to why he might accept a $2.4M-$2.7M contract? ‘Cause he knows that that would be more than he could negotiate as a free agent should the Braves non-tender him, that’s why. Which they would, if they cannot negotiate a contract somewhere around $2.4M-$2.7M (ballpark estimate).
“I’m not the one going around without knowledge here. I’m very aware of how the arbitration process has worked over the years.”
You could not prove that by me.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
11:09 pm
Is it supposed to be rainy like this the whole weekend?
I wouldn’t know- it’s supposed to be in the 80’s here
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:10 pm
jeffrey, how was yesterday?
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:10 pm
I wouldn’t know- it’s supposed to be in the 80’s here
Oh, stop it! I prefer 60’s and 70’s anyway, so
.
Random
October 23rd, 2009
11:14 pm
N8 (October 23rd, 2009 1:03 pm): “DAP, of course they did. But even in years past, Chipper’s numbers (mainly batting average and slugging), weren’t THAT bad in losses.”
Okay, show us. In the same detail as you did for 2009. And baselined against all other league qualifiers.
Thanks.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:16 pm
Oh it went real good…but they’re interviewing a lot more people over the next few weeks, so I won’t know until around Thanksgiving.
nolie
October 23rd, 2009
11:18 pm
nolie – she was just putting you on the spot (VJ)
well I hoped that was it, but she is a California girl, and you can never be sure just how much they can comprehend. .
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:21 pm
That’s good that it went well. What grade is it for?
Random
October 23rd, 2009
11:24 pm
Jim (October 23rd, 2009 1:30 pm): “Suppose the Braves sign Laroche to a 3-year, or even a 4-year contract. As long as there’s not a “no trade” clause and the yearly amount is reasonable, the Braves would be able to trade Laroche if (A) Freeman is actually ready (and not just Schaefer-ready) and (B) Laroche stays healthy.”
Please explain to us exactly WHY LaRoche would give the Braves the necessary “hometown” discount (”the yearly amount is reasonable”) that would allow them to sign him for three or four years WITHOUT a no-trade clause.
‘Cause the Braves (imo) would not be able to afford market price for LaRoche. Imo, they would have to give LaRoche a no-trade clause in return for any kind of “hometown” discount.
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
11:25 pm
Nolie-
Hey now!
P. W. Hjort
October 23rd, 2009
11:28 pm
‘Cause the Braves (imo) would not be able to afford market price for LaRoche. Imo, they would have to give LaRoche a no-trade clause in return for any kind of “hometown” discount.
Agreed. LaRoche primarily wants stability. This is his first time becoming a free agent and probably his last chance to sign a long-term deal. He’s also the best 1B (probably youngest, too, though I’m too lazy to look it up) on the market. If you think LaRoche is both going to take a discount and be looking at the possibility of getting traded within 2 years, well, you’re not thinking.
Vinings Jim
October 23rd, 2009
11:30 pm
Good night, all! I will be back tomorrow afternoon…
cabravesfan
October 23rd, 2009
11:32 pm
Good night Blog folk!
Random
October 23rd, 2009
11:33 pm
Daslied (October 23rd, 2009 1:42 pm): “Paul, I just realized that you are Dwight from “The Office”.
“Now, is ADD/”selective reading” really just a problem in the South? I don’t know if go away I’d say that leave. It seems to me that, based on for the love of god shut up the research I’ve read, ADD is a problem shut piehole everywhere. It’s really sad, personally, because when I was driving me insane in school in the 80s, people who did poorly in school were just go ruin a Cowboys blog “dumb”. I also remember subtle social experiments to see how people performed christ I’m going to chop my head off if you keep talking in a natural setting. Whoa, sorry for the rambling move to Greenland post!
“What do you think, Paul?”
GodDAM, what a subliminal tour de force!!!!!!!
I just had to copy it in its entirety, ’cause I want to read it again and again and again.
(And I really only do that with my own comments.)
SCJames
October 23rd, 2009
11:41 pm
DOB,
What do you think about a Lowe and Schafer deal to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp? I know that the Dodgers would like to have a more dependable starter and throw in Schafer as a good add on.
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
11:44 pm
SCJames–the Dodgers laugh Wren off the phone on that one…
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:47 pm
Soph – shh shh….it’s on the FB status
Andrew
October 23rd, 2009
11:48 pm
i think derek lowe still has some value to him…i think i read a lowe for mags trade on here which i dont think would be bad for the braves…i mean seriously what other players would be available…maybe since we picked up hudson talks already that wren feels there is a good enough trade market for lowe
Random
October 23rd, 2009
11:48 pm
Bay Area Steve (October 23rd, 2009 4:20 pm): “The “worst” thing they can do is say “no”.
“Would someone please explain the intended meaning of this “posting?””
Dude, yer half a day early, aintcha?
Wassup — insomnia?
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:49 pm
I was just looking up some of Georgia’s basketball recruits. And one guy was recruited by…Mike Bobo? Is that odd, or do football coaches recruit basketball players a lot?
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Marlon-Brown-62168
Soph
October 23rd, 2009
11:50 pm
Oops, sorry. Shushing now.
Andrew
October 23rd, 2009
11:51 pm
what about ludwick from the cards ..his average was only .265 but had 22 and 97
TnBrian
October 23rd, 2009
11:52 pm
SCJames, oh, uh, you’re gonna get bashed by some here for that idea. Man, no way would a team trade Kemp for a 37 yr old with that contract & a rookie that unimpressed the heck out of a lot people.
Random
October 23rd, 2009
11:52 pm
Bay Area Steve (October 23rd, 2009 4:32 pm): “And, ugaaccountant, loved the line the other day about blog-tone. I forgot it now; I’d love to see it again.”
doG, yer pitiful.
I pity you.
Steve from OH
October 23rd, 2009
11:55 pm
I agree with your premise that the Dodgers need pitching and good prospects, but no way are they trading a player like Kemp who is so cheap to boot for those two. They ain’t trading him, period, I think.
jeffrey d
October 23rd, 2009
11:57 pm
No no, you’re good…I’m just paranoid.
Random
October 23rd, 2009
11:58 pm
CB (October 23rd, 2009 5:15 pm): “nolie, I thought when you were a young man a dinosaur ruled.”
LOL. My appreciation abounds.
Andrew
October 23rd, 2009
11:58 pm
the dodgers might take lowe back
SCJames
October 23rd, 2009
11:59 pm
Just wanted to throw that idea out there. I saw on MLB trade rumors where they were looking for a more dependable starting pitcher for the postseason and figured Lowe fit that bill
Steve from OH
October 24th, 2009
12:00 am
I really don’t see that happening at the moment; they might, but definitely not in a package for Kemp.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:03 am
Oh nevermind…I see Marlon Brown plays football too.
uga-brave
October 24th, 2009
12:03 am
no matter what happens, the braves have got to get heap out of the four hole.
he cant protect chipper and since the scouts have put the shift on he has been somewhat average.
mcfann before you go crazy i am a heap fan. the dude would be a perfect six hole kind of guy.
not his fault that he was thrust into the four hole.
Andrew
October 24th, 2009
12:04 am
maybe wren can pull off a lowe for furcal trade just to piss off furcal
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:05 am
You won’t get any complaints from McFann on that, uga-brave. She’s as anti-McCann-At-Cleanup as they come.
TnBrian
October 24th, 2009
12:05 am
Who else is ready for the damn WS to get here & get over? Ah, the torcher of the waiting game. Man, we’re all so spoiled by the internet it’s not even funny.
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:06 am
N8 (October 23rd, 2009 6:29 pm): “As for trading KK? I don’t think it’s a wise move. He’s a steal at around 7 million per year the next couple of years.”
doG loves you, and so does Wren. You are a truth speaker. (In this extremely limited context only.)
Andrew
October 24th, 2009
12:07 am
TnBrian i hear that
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:08 am
Ah, the torcher of the waiting game.
Somebody’s burning down the waiting game? We’d better stop them….
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:14 am
oh hey, btw…question, how come PWH is like a tech boy wonder but doesn’t know prima donna?
and PW is a good kid, knows his stuff no doubt, but he and lentz’s postings are similar kinda? a little? forget the insults lentz throws out but c’mon…i can’t be the only one who has noticed this, am i? i dont mean they are the same person, just that their general demeanor is alike in some ways. but PW is likeable. and lentz is a social ra-tard.
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:14 am
but that was funny, pre-madonna or not.
P. W. Hjort
October 24th, 2009
12:14 am
Ah, the torcher of the waiting game
And ain’t it a crime shame.
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:15 am
it would be a crime shame if i didn’t mention that.
Steve from OH
October 24th, 2009
12:15 am
Ra-tard. LOL!
What a great movie.
RHR, dude, you’re funny. And you’re right, I haven’t seen Random’s van around here lately.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:19 am
Hey now…I like PW Hjort. Comparing him to Lentz? That’s rough.
P. W. Hjort
October 24th, 2009
12:20 am
how come PWH is like a tech boy wonder but doesn’t know prima donna?
Tech boys have their strengths. And their weaknesses. Anything that involves language or just the right side of the brain in general qualifies as a weakness.
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:20 am
Paul Lentz (October 23rd, 2009 7:03 pm): “ugaaccountant……..your 4:20pm is neglecting the point that Kelly Johnson isnt going to re-sign with the Braves for $2.3 mil. I’d be willing to bet anyone on here $100 that if Kelly re-signs with the Braves (whether by negotiations before the Braves deciding whether offering him salary arbitration……..or by an arbitrator)…….that he WILL NOT get less than $3 mil.
“If the Braves non-tender Kelly, then it is a moot point. However, if Kelly Johnson is wearing a Braves uniform come Spring Training, then I’ll wager anyone on here $100 that his 2010 contract wont be for less than $3 mil.”
I’ll take that.
Eff Spring Training. Lemme clarify the bet:
IF Kelly Johnson is on the Braves ML (25 man) roster in Apr 2010, you say he will not be making less than $3.0M per year.
And I say he WILL be making less than $3.0M per year.
(And we’re talking base salary, no consideration to possible incentives, right?)
All right — my $100 sez IF Johnson is on the Braves ML roster on 15 Apr 2010, he will be making less than $3.0M per year (not counting incentives).
Are you still game?
Steve from OH
October 24th, 2009
12:22 am
I’m sure PWH is nothing like this guy.
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:23 am
i’m not comparing him to lentz, just his “postings” … lentz is a doody head. but i mean, like…nevermind. PW isn’t like lentz, thats not what i meant.
where are the drunks? maybe they’ll understand.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:24 am
where are the drunks? maybe they’ll understand.
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:25 am
PW – i was married to a smart guy. he was good at everything, math, science, english, history, foreign languages, picking out wives….
i dont think he has mental weaknesses. but then again, he didn’t go to tech. 
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:27 am
who does nolie think he is ignoring my caveman reference? how dare he.
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:29 am
Vinings Jim (October 23rd, 2009 8:33 pm): “To make”
“To do”?
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:34 am
CB (October 23rd, 2009 9:19 pm): “VJ, any good food in Savannah that you would recommend- our next trip in Nov.?”
You visit Savannah betimes?
Me, too, sometimes. Ever check out a Sand Gnats game?
(My next trip will be 1st week of March.)
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:50 am
Steve from OH (October 24th, 2009 12:15 am) –
Et tu, Brute?
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:50 am
Out.
TnBrian
October 24th, 2009
12:59 am
Do any of you ever think this is just plain weird talking to people that you have no idea what they look like, how old they are, on & on? A lot of us are on here everyday, so that’s why I ask. I guess Gore was good for something.
P. W. Hjort
October 24th, 2009
1:04 am
It’s pseudo-communication for the anti-social, TnBrian. Gotta love it.
Though the Gore thing irks me. I realize it’s just a joke, but Gore never said he invented the internet.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
Mitchie-san
October 24th, 2009
1:14 am
P. W. Hjort is nothing like Lentz! Always rational and backs up everything he says. Smart as heck, too. Oh and I am sure P. W. isnt a horrible American.
TnBrian
October 24th, 2009
1:23 am
PWHjort, I don’t if I would call myself anti-social or whatever, but if I’m around strangers then I’m not one to strike up the conversation, usually. Oh, & I’ve got a bad temper so people get on my nerves pretty easy. Thought Gore did invent this thing, but I’ll take your word.
P. W. Hjort
October 24th, 2009
1:39 am
It was a joke, TnBrian. I always forget to push the sarcasm button.
N8
October 24th, 2009
1:46 am
“Okay, show us. In the same detail as you did for 2009. And baselined against all other league qualifiers.” Random
Uhh. I did that with the batting average, later in the same post.
Here is his BA in the losses for the previous few years:
2008 – .286, 2007 – .288, 2006 – .290
Since obviously his batting average wasn’t enough for you, I’ll give you the slugging and OPS in the losses (including 2009):
2009: .298 SLG, .611 OPS
2008: .415 SLG, .807 OPS
2007: .528 SLG, .892 OPS
2006: .500 SLG, .851 OPS
STILL think this wasn’t an incredibly down year for him compared to what we’re used to him doing when the team loses? I realize that he cannot control what happens around him, who is on base for him, how much speed those guys have to score on doubles, etc…. But he was so ridiculously bad in the 70 games the Braves lost this year. We’re talking Francoeur bad. Except Jeff was just that bad all of the time. LOL
I’m not going to find league averages for qualifiers, etc… Because it will be the same. I concede that. Players will usually have not played as good in losses as they do when they win. Common sense tells us if they did, they wouldn’t be losing. But compared to himself, Chipper was bad this year. Real bad. And literally did nothing in the 70 losses.
As for comparing him to Pujols? Why not. He’s damn near getting paid what Pujols is, (13 million to 16 million), if he’s going to get paid 81 percent of what Pujols gets paid, should he at least come within that vicinity of percentage of “production”?
Again, I was mainly comparing Chipper to HIMSELF. As I’ve done all year. The reason I picked the past few years, is because we haven’t made the playoffs and he’s been the “leader” of the offense. The best player. The guy Cox deems 3-hole worthy. During the “run” it wasn’t as necessary for him to carry the load, because there were others to have his back.
With his salary, and it’s direct connection to how much Wren can spend on other positions based on the Braves self imposed cap, I expect Chipper to carry this team. Period. If he doesn’t, he’s hurting the team (by taking too much salary up), more than he’s helping it. It’s not that he’s so bad the team stinks. It’s that because of his salary, Wren can’t afford help in the lineup. So the least that should be asked of him is to produce similarly to other players making around the same money as him.
nolie
October 24th, 2009
1:47 am
dont think he has mental weaknesses. (RHR)
he let you get away. that must qualify
nolie
October 24th, 2009
1:51 am
who does nolie think he is ignoring my caveman reference? how dare he (RHR)
those weren’t all baseball lineups, some of them were pinups. Didn’t have that Raquel Welch picture yet though.
Anyway you don’t reply to all my comments to you
N8
October 24th, 2009
1:54 am
Random, I’ll point out again (as I did earlier today), this past season, Chipper’s SLG (.298) was actually lower than his OBP (.313) was. A one word response is all that’s necessary….
Yikes.
To again, reiterate my point that Chipper was “Francoeur bad” in the losses, check these out:
Jeff was involved in 88 losses overall (Braves and Mets), in those 88 games he had 84 hits (Chipper had 48 hits in 70 losses), he batted .255, with a .267 OBP, slugged .365 and had an OPS of .632. (compared to Chipper”s: .204/.313/.298/.611
How’d the old saying go? “Lose an Andruw, gain an Andruw”?
N8
October 24th, 2009
2:12 am
Keep in mind people, I still like Chipper and don’t have a problem with him finishing his career in Atlanta, provided he’s productive (or the manager doesn’t plug him into the middle of the lineup when he’s not producing – a simple drop in the order would be acceptable).
I think Wren needs to assume with Chipper the exact same thing he did with Smoltz and Glavine last winter. Assume what he’ll get out of him is the EXACT same he got this year (just in case), and build the new lineup assuming he’s in decline.
He’s already signed, so it’s not like he can treat it like Glavine or Smoltz and make an incentive based deal. The deal is in place. But don’t compound one possible mistake (the extension), by assuming he’ll rebound and carry this team.
That way if Chipper does rebound and carry this team, the lineup is that much deeper and potent.
In the end, I suspect that this is exactly what Wren will do. I expect a somewhat stacked lineup next year compared to the one we started 2009 with, and with the emergence of Hanson and him being up the whole year, one of the pitchers (Vazquez, Lowe or KK) could be sacrificed to add said bat.
It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure out that some major changes are coming.
P. W. Hjort
October 24th, 2009
2:12 am
if he’s going to get paid 81 percent of what Pujols gets paid, should he at least come within that vicinity of percentage of “production”?
Positional adjustments. Chipper plays third base, Pujols plays 1B. Playing 3B and producing the same amount with your bat and glove is worth 15 more runs (1.5 more wins) than playing 1B simply due to position scarcity.
P. W. Hjort
October 24th, 2009
2:22 am
The start of Season 3 of The Wire was so promising, but it’s just faded into dramatic bullsh!t. Shows that get too plot conscious always lose me. House is the exact same way.
nolie
October 24th, 2009
3:15 am
The start of Season 3 of The Wire was so promising, but it’s just faded into dramatic bullsh!t. Shows that get too plot conscious always lose me. House is the exact same way. (PWH)
gotta disagree with both those. I loved The Wire all the way through and I still love House. I will agree that I liked the first two seasons of both shows the best. They aren’t anywhere near as plot conscious as LOST is,.
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 24th, 2009
3:45 am
Where’d everybody go?
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 24th, 2009
3:56 am
Since I am talking to myself, I am not overly optimistic that LaRoche will resign with the Braves. If he doesn’t, could he work on playing first base next year?
That’s a great idea Wayno, you are a genius!
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 24th, 2009
4:01 am
But Wayne, if I am so smart, why am i still driving home at 2am? And why am I talking to myself?
P. W. Hjort
October 24th, 2009
4:04 am
nolie,
Never watched a single episode of Lost. I thought season 1 of The Wire was the best TV endeavor this decade. I’m higher on season 3 than season 2, but season 1 was just too great. I made that comment about The Wire because I thought it was Ellis Carver that got shot by Prez. That would’ve been lame. Turns out it was nobody of consequence in the show, which is much better.
I hate it when shows give you some unnecessary plot twist just to keep you on your toes. Doing something for the sake of being dramatic is, in itself, a turnoff. If the story/characterization/dialogue isn’t interesting enough, the show sucks.
House, though. Man. That show turned into complete garbage after season 4. The whole Cuddy having a baby plot turned me off. There was one episode when House was on the phone with Cuddy and the baby was crying in the background. The patient was all like “make it stop!”. I said, “I’m done” after that. Just trying to be too emo and dramatic. Couldn’t take it.
eyeball kid
October 24th, 2009
7:09 am
N8 is the smartest dude on this blog. It used to be that I would simply scroll for the blue highlights. Now, I simply look for anything N8 contributes.
braveshoo
October 24th, 2009
8:38 am
Keeping kelly johnson is a waste of money at any price. Trading Escobar is crazy too-one of our best players. We will never trade JJ for Gonzales or anyone else. He is a big part of our present and our future, and is still cheap. And we shouldn’d trade anyone for Gonzales when we can keep our players and sign LaRoche. Sign Hudson;trade Lowe for a big bat; let Soriano go and sign LaRoche.The big bat for the OF is the toughest part. I still think Lowe is desirable for a lot of teams, but who we get for our bat is tough. Bay is too expensive; I love Ethier but he is probably untouchable; I like Renolds but that will be tough too; is Dunn a possibility for a year; I much prefer a longer term solution. I’m not sure of the answer but I bet Wrenn has his eye on who he wants already.
TommyP
October 24th, 2009
8:59 am
Man, the night-time crowd on here goes off in some strange directions, huh?
The fact that the Braves are talking extension with Huddy says that there is significant trade interest in Lowe or Kawakami. I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t commit that much more money to the rotation without knowing they can deal one of the other two.
There are so many teams looking for starting pitching that we should be able to net something solid in return. Lowe to the Dodgers? He succeeded there for a long time and they are looking for a dependable top of the rotation guy. Innings eater as well which would save their young bullpen from pitching as much as they did last year. Not sure of what the return would be, however.
Acorn
October 24th, 2009
9:04 am
Which teams will actually trade for Lowe? Which teams have money to trade for him?
Efrim
October 24th, 2009
9:26 am
Acorn, I don’t think the Braves would start contract negotiations with Hudson unless they thought that there was a market for Lowe or Kawakami. If they deal Lowe, I still think they’ll have to eat some of his salary, but I can’t imagine they would have to eat too much of it.
CB
October 24th, 2009
9:44 am
I think the question we need to ask ourselves first is would we rather have Lowe or Hudson for the next 3yrs? If we choose Hudson,then a lot is to be gained by signing him and trading Lowe,if the Braves have gauged there is trade interest for Lowe.If the Braves sign Hudson for less than 30mil for 3yrs and we are able to trade Lowe we have gained 15mil in difference in salary. I would hope whatever we receive back for Lowe would be a good prospect.
David O'Brien
October 24th, 2009
9:51 am
What do you think about a Lowe and Schafer deal to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp? — SCJames
McCourt and the Dodgers didn’t try to re-sign Lowe when he was coming off a good season with the Dodgers a year ago, and now they’re going to take him back with three years and $45 mill left on his contract, and give up Kemp to do it? No, don’t think.
CB
October 24th, 2009
9:51 am
Random,my wife and I are planning a vacation to Savannah in Nov. and will be our 1st trip there. Maybe we can take in a Braves game together next year- if you let me ride shotgun in your van.
Efrim
October 24th, 2009
9:58 am
Pretty unbelievable that the Phillies are the first team since the Braves to repeat as NL Champs. I underestimated the team prior to the season. I thought regression from Lidge, Utley’s offseason hip surgery, Ibanez to Burrell, and the lack of overall depth in the starting rotation would hurt the team. But the additions of Happ and Lee really extended the rotation and Ibanez outperformed most everyones expectations. Utley was also his normal self, one of the top five players in the sport. It’s interesting to look at their team the next couple of seasons, though. Here’s a list of their free agents after the 2010 and 2011 seasons(and their age the following season’s opening day):
2010: Moyer(48), Lee(32), Blanton(30), Feliz(35), Werth(31), Dobbs(32)
2011: Howard(32), Ibanez(39), Rollins(33), Hamels(28), Romero(34), Victorino(31), Madson(31), Durbin(34)
Now, they have quite a bot of money coming off of the books in those years, but it’s going to take some great work from Amaro and his staff to figure which players he wants to give a contract to. Given that most of them will be in their early thirties and past their baseball prime, that’s a lot of tough decisions. This is not to say that the Phillies can’t continue to be successful past 2011. With the right moves and minor league callups(Drabek, Taylor, Brown, D’ Arnaud), they may keep rolling. But it’s just something to think about moving forward.
David O'Brien
October 24th, 2009
9:59 am
The Braves didn’t have to do much, if any, calling around to realize they would be able to move either K.K. or Lowe this winter to open a spot for Hudson. There’s just going to be so few proven pitchers on the market, there’s no way Braves will be stuck with too many starters if they want to move one (which they will).
And obviously if it came right down to it, they could get plenty in a trade for Vazquez (but as we’ve said, they’d be very reluctant to trade Vazquez; that’s not what they’re looking to do).
Hudson’s willingness to take less than $10 mill per season made it an easy decision for Braves to go in that direction.
CB
October 24th, 2009
10:04 am
DOB,do you think it is possible the Braves are talking to Vazquez about an extension? Thanks,if you have time to answer.
MZ
October 24th, 2009
10:13 am
DOB ———
So essentially what you’re saying is the Braves will most likely trade either K.K. or D. Lowe … but what can they expect in return for either/or? Solid bench guy? a young pitching prospect or two?
Also: Do you think whatever deal is made for K.K. and/or D. Lowe would only involve said pitchers or would it turn into a package or possible multi-team deal that would see quite a few players move around? I guess what I’m asking is if the Braves find a taker for D. Lowe, do you think Wren is open to the idea of making it a package deal if he could get a bopper in return?
Braveheart
October 24th, 2009
10:19 am
How exactly is Kawakami a steal at $6.66 million? He was okay, but his work didn’t exactly inspire. His pitching as a starter was worth in free agency dollars about what he was paid this year, but value in free agency dollars is about double what your overall market worth is. If they sign Hudson, the Braves don’t need Kawakami. Sell high. Not a big fan of holding on to a 35 year old who didn’t average 6 IP per start, and who didn’t have a great K rate or a great GB/FB rate. The balls weren’t exactly flying out of the Ted for anyone this year. If they were, I think we’d be talking about KK a bit differently. 4 HRs in 79 innings at home. 11 homers in 77 innings on the road. Hopefully, some other team won’t notice that, and will trade for him. If he stays, I won’t complain, but if he goes, I won’t complain either.
McCann is not the ideal cleanup hitter, but if we had better hitters hitting fifth, sixth, and seventh for most of the year, we wouldn’t be talking about McCann as a bad cleanup hitter. It wasn’t really McCann that was failing to provide Chipper protection, it was crap like Garrett Anderson that was failing to provide protection to McCann and Chipper. Garrett Anderson was absolute garbage this season.
Why would Laroche get a no trade clause contract from anyone? He ain’t good enough to warrant a no trade from any team that has a clue about what it is doing. I understand it makes little sense for him to take a hometown discount in Atlanta if he doesn’t get a no trade clause (especially considering that they already traded him away right after he had a breakout season), but he ain’t getting a no trade clause from any team with a clue. Because he’s not good enough to secure himself no-trade security from anyone, he’d be wise to seek financial security from the highest bidder.
CB
October 24th, 2009
10:27 am
Braveheart,are you advocating trading KK instead of Lowe or do you want to trade both? Just wondering how you meant-understand you are not a fan of KK.
Efrim
October 24th, 2009
10:27 am
Garrett Anderson was absolute garbage this season.
I couldn’t agree more with that statement, and basically everything else you said.
Lew
October 24th, 2009
10:30 am
Damn-It’s days like this that make me thrilled I’m a UGA grad and not a Dartmouth alum. It is 42 degrees here this morning (I live 35 minutes from Hanover, NH), it’s not expected to get any warmer, it’s pouring-cold and raw. It’s also Dartmouth’s homecoming. Good thing I hadn’t planned on going today. It’s perfect weather to stay inside.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
10:34 am
But Wayne, if I am so smart, why am i still driving home at 2am?
More importantly, were you driving and typing??
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
10:35 am
That’s gotta be at least a hundred times more dangerous than texting and driving
Lew
October 24th, 2009
10:47 am
Braveheart-The only problem I see about trading Kawakami is that there wouldn’t be enough salary savings to get us the bat we need, whereas letting Hudson walk or (if even possible) trading Lowe would net us considerably more $$$$$$, getting the Braves much closer to where they need to be.
Whatever. My whole point all along has been that we need to keep and extend Vazquez. If the Braves can trade Lowe to retain Hudson, I’ll be happy. Otherwise, Free Hudson.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
10:50 am
Normally I don’t like these small schools playing nobodies and getting high rankings (see 2007 Hawaii). But for the sake of a terrible BCS games, I’m pulling for TCU and Boise State and Cincinnati.
Although I understand that a team like Florida or Texas would leap ahead of them even if they had one loss and the smaller schools were undefeated. But can you imagine a BCS Championship Game of like Boise State vs. Iowa? Take THAT BCS.
Lew
October 24th, 2009
10:56 am
Drivin and Typin-A new Southern Rock Band?
McFann Ô
October 24th, 2009
11:00 am
Soph that’s funny because Pebbles always annoyed me. Didn’t she always say da-da or something?
Oh yeah, she was annoying, too…the show wasn’t quite the same when they got the kids. There were still some funny episodes, but overall, not as good. Fred wasn’t as mean anymore–he laughed when Barney said something dumb! I mean, he’s s’posed to yell at him…
I always pronounced it Duh-Q-lah but I think someone tried to correct me one time saying it was the other one – Dacooola. Crazy Gwinnetians.
Hey, I’m a Gwinnetian and I can’t say that crazy word–Daculua is sorta how it came out last night…it’s like “ambulance”–cannot say that word unless I really try…
Uga-brave mcfann before you go crazy i am a heap fan.
They always hit me with the snow-job whenever they “knock” BMac for something…
No really, though, jeffrey’s right–I do NOT want BMac at cleanup again…like, ever. I do, ya know, totally agree with Braveheart on the matter…though I don’t know if I’d call GA garbage…
he cant protect chipper and since the scouts have put the shift on he has been somewhat average.
I wouldn’t say that he can’t protect Chipper…just that, ya know, they picked the wrong year to throw him into the four-spot–what with his eye issues and all, he couldn’t see pitches quite as well. And yeah, that shift caused some problems–he’s just gotta go back to using the whole field. I know he cann.
Bat Masterson
October 24th, 2009
11:06 am
Drivin and Typin-A new Southern Rock Band ?
Did anyone see Craig Ferguson, Thursday night, Lynyrd Skynyrd was on?
keylargo
October 24th, 2009
11:25 am
Lew
How can you keep saying to just let Tim Hudson walk? That would have to be the very last thing that I would do because he is worth signing even if it is just to control where he goes, i. e. not the Mets or Phillies. I will have to throw in here that I am not sure if Hudson will fall into the 10/5 category and thus not be able to be traded without his permission – which would cost somebody.
But if you are not going to trade him and he returns to form, he is at least as good as any pitcher we have. And very reasonably priced for a veteran pitcher. However, I do think it is going to cost the Braves at least $30 M for 3 years – maybe with salaries of $9, $10, $11 Mill. Regardless, cheaper than Vazquez.
keylargo
October 24th, 2009
11:31 am
Bat
I did not see them on Ferguson’s show but did see them a few weeks ago on Mike Huckabees Fox News Show. They sounded fairly good and looked healthy.
EWare
October 24th, 2009
11:32 am
Lew, got the print in the mail today. Thanks a lot, man. It looks awesome. My wife was astounded that someone would do something like that for free. It’s good to know that there’s still some great people in this world. Thanks again.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
11:33 am
This makes some of the loonies on here look like they’re composing symphonies
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AuJ4CCtGNf2BISR3ZxiP8Vqe5HNG;_ylv=3?qid=20091024083002AAHwdL1
Bat Masterson
October 24th, 2009
11:49 am
Hey Keylargo, thanks. I have not paid any attention to those guys since the 70’s and honestly did not the other night. It was just afterwards, Ferugson was kicked back with his feet on his desk, saying something like, well I’m just rocked out and I’m going to have to go rest up and get my rock built back up… ect. And maybe it was just me, but I thought, wow that was cold .
abwright
October 24th, 2009
11:50 am
Lew, 10:56 am … “Drivin and Typin-A new Southern Rock Band?
I don’t know, Lew. I heard that Sutheners were all ADD. Drivin’ and Typin’ would probably lose focus after the first lyric.
Bat Masterson
October 24th, 2009
11:50 am
jeffery d, that was just probably someone’s idea of satire, don’t you think?
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
11:53 am
You’d certainly hope so
KC
October 24th, 2009
11:53 am
Braveheart: “How exactly is Kawakami a steal at $6.66 million? He was okay, but his work didn’t exactly inspire.
Braveheart, from May 1 on, his ERA was 3.34… and he allowed 3 ER or less in 19 of 21 starts. He also came through in the clutch and showed the ability to raise his game in big situations, against top tier pitchers.
I’m not suggesting that he’s a CY candidate here, but at 6 or 7 million… by today’s payroll standards, he WAS most definitely a steal.
abwright
October 24th, 2009
11:56 am
My 2 more cents on the great Hudson controversy …
If the Braves work out a contract with Huddy, especially if it has a home town discount, I doubt that they would consider trading him this year. That would be a poor faith negotiation.
Given how they recruited Lowe and Kawakami, it would be a little cold to trade them after one year.
Even though I’m not happy about this, it seems that Vazquez, with one year left on his contract at something like $12M is your odd man out.
keylargo
October 24th, 2009
11:58 am
Bat
That was cold. Sort of the attitude that permeates through the blog at times.
Mike Huckabee (former Ark. Gov. who ran for Pres. in 08) plays the Bass and joined in with the group for a song and had a good couple of minutes of conversation after.
Bat Masterson
October 24th, 2009
12:02 pm
Lowe will be 38 next year, with 3 years left at 15 million per. If I could trade him, I would not care if he thought it was cold or not. He will have plenty of money to salve his feeling.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:04 pm
Yes, this is Major League Baseball, not Barney. It’s not always feel-good.
Joseph G
October 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
I don’t know if anyone has suggested this but since Detroit may let Palanco go would they trade Marcus Thames for Kelly Johnson? The Braves have nothing to lose really. Thames isn’t a huge thumper but gives us more power than last season. Plus Thames could play 1st if LaRoach goes else where.
N8
October 24th, 2009
12:07 pm
Braveheart, if you take KK’s numbers from May – August (after he had a month to adjust, and since he wasn’t in the rotation in September), he made 21 start, pitched 121 innings (almost 6 per start – 5.76), and had an ERA of 3.42 during that span.
The ONLY thing one could argue about is that it would have been nice for him to go another inning each game.
I think he’ll be better next year after adjusting to American baseball away from his home and family. I could be wrong.
But in the end, he was a better “bargain” than Lowe was, dont you think?
During that same stretch (May – August), Lowe made 23 starts, pitched 135.1 innings (5.88 per start), and had an ERA of 4.65.
Yeah. I’d say KK was a steal in relative terms to what Wren overpaid for Lowe. There is no doubt in my mind with the roll KK was on, that he would done in September what he basically did in August. So, save his poor April (when Lowe was at his best), KK out pitched him.
Lowe ended up with 194 IP, KK had 154. But give KK 5 starts in September and he’s around 175 (he did pitch 13 innings of relief in September).
It’s funny to me that 6 months later I’m singing the praises of what KK did for the year, and ripping on Lowe a little bit. I wanted Lowe badly last winter, and raved about his worth in April (while ragging on KK for the first month or two).
But, there is no denying that KK’s 8 or so million is a steal compared to Lowe’s 15 million.
Or do you disagree with that?
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:07 pm
Thames is a .240s hitter with 10-20 HR. That’s what Jeff Francoeur did and we ran him out of town.
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:08 pm
there’s no way Braves will be stuck with too many starters if they want to move one (which they will).
But it won’t be KK, right Random?
Lew
October 24th, 2009
12:10 pm
KeyLargo-Whatever Dude. I just really don’t agree, but it won’t be the first time I was in the minority on what I thought should happen. Kind of like last year when I tried telling people that Jake Peavy would be the most absurd signing we could make. NO one believed me and even DOB came down on me for my supposed dementia. No one believed me when I said that Javy Vazquez would be an incredible signing. But, was I right?
Whatever. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens. However, losing a pitcher coming back from serious elbow surgery just is NOT my idea of the best way to go-especially when guess what? We don’t need him. We do, however, need the money he would be paid.
Like I said-IF you can work a deal for Lowe, then you do it and sign Hudson. If not. Free Hudson. It isn’t like we don’t have the horses to pitch in his place already under contract or that we are certain he will pitch like he did for Oakland (he hasn’t so far) or even for us prior to his surgery. Lowe has never been DLed. Vazquez has never been DLed. Hudson? Not so much.
Bat Masterson
October 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
RHR
What happened with the Dan Brown book? Finish it or give up?
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:12 pm
Braveheart (October 24th, 2009 10:19 am): “How exactly is Kawakami a steal at $6.66 million? He was okay, but his work didn’t exactly inspire. His pitching as a starter was worth in free agency dollars about what he was paid this year, but value in free agency dollars is about double what your overall market worth is. If they sign Hudson, the Braves don’t need Kawakami. Sell high. Not a big fan of holding on to a 35 year old who didn’t average 6 IP per start, and who didn’t have a great K rate or a great GB/FB rate. The balls weren’t exactly flying out of the Ted for anyone this year. If they were, I think we’d be talking about KK a bit differently. 4 HRs in 79 innings at home. 11 homers in 77 innings on the road. Hopefully, some other team won’t notice that, and will trade for him. If he stays, I won’t complain, but if he goes, I won’t complain either.”
Geezum, Will. What was that whole preceding paragraph, if not “complaining”???
“Why would Laroche get a no trade clause contract from anyone? He ain’t good enough to warrant a no trade from any team that has a clue about what it is doing. I understand it makes little sense for him to take a hometown discount in Atlanta if he doesn’t get a no trade clause (especially considering that they already traded him away right after he had a breakout season), but he ain’t getting a no trade clause from any team with a clue. Because he’s not good enough to secure himself no-trade security from anyone, he’d be wise to seek financial security from the highest bidder.”
As far as I know, the only team that was ever mentioned as giving LaRoche a no-trade clause was Atlanta, and that only in the context of receiving a “hometown” discount. So you answered your own question.
Soph
October 24th, 2009
12:12 pm
I’m going to make McFann proud and watch the Tech game.
Lew
October 24th, 2009
12:14 pm
abwright-How can Southerners be considered to have ADD? Dude, Free Bird is at least 6 minutes long.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:14 pm
Oh I didn’t know it was on now. I always watch the GT game…but I always root against them.
Lew
October 24th, 2009
12:15 pm
eware-Glad you like the print. Great men? Maybe, but I doubt you’d find many to include me on that list.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:15 pm
6 minutes? The solo alone is like 10.
Soph
October 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
I can’t ever get into a GT game. Never captures my attention.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:21 pm
Really? That option, man…I’m not a big TV yeller, but seeing guys continually get beat on the GT option…I mean, you know it’s coming! Yet they rack up 400 rushing yards a game.
IF we end up beating Tech (big if) it’s best for us if they win out, so maybe I shouldn’t root against them.
McFann Ô
October 24th, 2009
12:21 pm
Soph–
Good girl!
I can’t ever get into a GT game. Never captures my attention.
Oh…well never mind then…
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:22 pm
Bat – its either terrible or it hasn’t gotten cold and boring enough to hold my attention. I’m gonna give it another try in the dead of winter. I’m like this with reading, I’ll read like 25 books in a row and can’t stand not to have something to read. Then I get out of it and can’t get into a book again for 6 months.
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:24 pm
keylargo (October 24th, 2009 11:25 am): “I will have to throw in here that I am not sure if Hudson will fall into the 10/5 category and thus not be able to be traded without his permission – which would cost somebody.”
Well, he’s got at least 10 ML years (11 if his 21 starts in ‘99 count), the last 5 of which have been with the Braves.
If the Braves do extend him, I think he’d definitely be a 10/5 veteran.
(Nota bene, abwright.)
Soph
October 24th, 2009
12:24 pm
McFann -
lol I’m still watching though. I’m sure that VA fumble made your dad happy.
jeffrey too, I’m sure.
McFann Ô
October 24th, 2009
12:24 pm
Great punt!
jake
October 24th, 2009
12:24 pm
Prado’s the LIKELY second baseman? How can there be any question? Aside from the fact that he’s a better hitter than Johnson, he’s a vastly superior fielder. Johnson has never looked anything more than mediocre at second; Prado’s a natural infielder. We’ve all seen Johnson blow way too many easy plays to be comfortable with him out there. If anyone moves to the outfield — if not AAA — it’s got to be Johnson.
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:25 pm
RHR (October 24th, 2009 12:08 pm): “But it won’t be KK, right?”
Kawakami will not be traded.
Random
October 24th, 2009
12:27 pm
Lew (October 24th, 2009 12:10 pm): “But, was I right?”
Yes, you were right.
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:27 pm
You tell ‘em, Random.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:29 pm
jake – I love Prado, but you’re talking like he’s Ozzie Smith in the field. I’d say he’s only average with a not-so-great range.
keylargo
October 24th, 2009
12:31 pm
Well, he’s got at least 10 ML years (11 if his 21 starts in ‘99 count), the last 5 of which have been with the Braves.Random
Random – I looked at exactly the same list, but was not sure if the Braves could us his DL time against him. If they were able to and did trade him before the start of the season, he would only have 4+.
keylargo
October 24th, 2009
12:35 pm
Well, he’s got at least 10 ML years (11 if his 21 starts in ‘99 count), the last 5 of which have been with the Braves. Random
Random – I was not sure if the Braves could use the DL time against his time with the Braves, thus leaving him with 4+ but not 5 years.
Steve from OH
October 24th, 2009
12:39 pm
DOB–given your comment and the fliers that Random has been passing out to the neighborhood, I take it Lowe is on the block?
Bat Masterson
October 24th, 2009
12:47 pm
RHR, thanks.
I read, and enjoyed” The DaVinci Code” and thought about picking up “The Lost Symbol” but I got Pat Conroy’s latest instead. It’s sitting on the bottom of a stack of six or so, and I have not been reading as much lately as my norm. Advocating for things I think are important, have taken up a lot of my time, and yet I have read some very good books. I just reread “We Need To Talk About Kevin”, by Lionel Shriver, last week, man that is a powerful book.
McFann Ô
October 24th, 2009
12:50 pm
Soph–
And I still watch UGA games sometimes…the one against Ten. was pretty good.
I’m sure that VA fumble made your dad happy.
Yeah…but the 15 yard penalty and now this…
RHR
October 24th, 2009
12:50 pm
All the things I’ve read that didn’t have the name Random beside them would suggest that both Lowe and KK are on the block. What do Bowman and Olney know? I mean, this is Random we’re talking about here.
But you have to assume the return for KK wouldn’t be great then he is probably the least likely to be moved out of Lowe, Hudson, Javy and KK.
rico carty
October 24th, 2009
12:52 pm
Need to trade Lowe, pure and simple. Braves were really negotiating against themselves at the end, overpaid him probably $3M given the 4 years on the contract. I don’t even care if we get “value” for him if we can let $10M or so of that contract go, admit the mistake, and move on. We were desperate last year, and it is easily understood why Lowe got that contract, but with Hanson, Medlen, Minor, etc. don’t need 38 year old making $15M. Just dump the salary, mainly.
cabravesfan
October 24th, 2009
12:52 pm
ESPN News is the best to watch on Saturday mornings- nothing but live look ins at all the games and scoring chances
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
12:56 pm
I think Lowe is the person most of us would want to get rid of but because of his age and contract, he has the smallest value of our 6 starters. Funny how that works out.
…actually, it’s exactly what you’d expect. But that won’t stop people from thinking other GMs will blindly overvalue Lowe in their proposals.
Bat Masterson
October 24th, 2009
1:00 pm
Does anyone remember seeing a guy post here under the nom de plume, Doc Ford?
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
1:00 pm
Hey about about we try offering Lowe and Schafer for Pedroia and Tom Brady?
CB
October 24th, 2009
1:00 pm
McFann, GT is behind. :mr.green:
Chris
October 24th, 2009
1:00 pm
resgining hudson and trading lowe or kawakami looks like the way that the braves will go for this offseason. also, the braves will have to sign a closer for about $4 or 5 million, maybe adding a reliever and a 4th outfielder as well, all while trying to find a big bat in the middle of the batting order. unless the braves payroll goes up about $10 million next year, i possbily cannot see how they can fill this need of getting a big bat (unless they trade freeman which could essentially be quite possible)
Soph
October 24th, 2009
1:01 pm
Hey about about we try offering Lowe and Schafer for Pedroia and Tom Brady?
No. I like Matt Ryan.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
1:02 pm
Brady would be pitching.
N8
October 24th, 2009
1:03 pm
Of the “final four” teams that were in the LCS’s, I think it’s safe to assume that we had a better rotation 1-5 than all of them. With Moylan, Soriano, O’Flare and Gonzo at the backend of the bullpen (adding KK and Medlen down the stretch), our bullpen stacked up against anybody’s.
Did we have a starter that could have battled with Cliff Lee or Sabathia? I think we did. What was lacking on our team?
The offense. Period.
So once the “problem” is found, one must find a solution to fix it. If it is determined that Liberty Media isn’t going to allow Wren to retain all of the pitching AND go hard core after a couple of guys (because we need a couple of guys), like Holliday and/or Jason Bay, then a person with common sense must come to the conclusion that some pitching needs to go.
If it is brought to Wren’s attention that Lowe could be desired by many teams out there, and Hudson is willing to sign for around 6 million less than Lowe is making over the next three years, the only logical decision is to lock up Hudson and trade Lowe.
Even IF Hudson goes down again, it’s “only” 9 million on the DL. Not the 15 million Lowe is going to make, not the 15-16 million Hampton was making. Not the 12 million Smoltz was making.
To me, trading Lowe and signing Hudson on the cheap is the difference for all of you Vazquez lovers, in signing him long-term. Think about it. Vazquez is going to get a raise over his 11.5 million. If over the next 3 years, Wren pays Hudson 27 million instead of giving Lowe 45 million, that is 18 more million that Vazquez can be offered.
I think if the Braves offer Vazquez 3 years 45 million dollars, he signs longterm. No questions asked. Meaning, we’d have Hudson, Vazquez, KK, Hanson and JJJ signed over the next 2 years (3 for everybody but KK), for around 35 million dollars per year. Leaving 65 or so million to spend on the rest of the team.
To put it in perspective, we currently had around 47 million tied into our rotation for the 2009 season (with insurance helping pay Hudson, I’m sure).
Think Wren could have used 12 million of flexibility last winter when trying to find a bat or two?
Sorry Derek Lowe….. you gotta go.
Soph
October 24th, 2009
1:05 pm
I bet Ryan pitches better than Brady. Why not just borrow him?
N8
October 24th, 2009
1:05 pm
Rico Carty, your 12:52 pretty much nails it.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2009
1:06 pm
You’re not working with the crazy logic, Soph.