2:03 am October 22, 2009, by David O'Brien
October 25th, 200911:42 pm
I would never!
October 25th, 200911:43 pm
Night, cab! Ryan will get you 4 td’s next week. Don’t give up on him.
One bad day for Ryan, one good day for Alex Smith and the jokes begin. *sigh*
October 25th, 200911:45 pm
Don’t worry about the jokes- the 49ers play at Indianapolis next week…yikes!
Real good night this time
Why are you still saying “shaddy?” No, seriously, I really want to know (STEVE)
I think the whole thing is kinda fishy IYAM
October 25th, 200911:47 pm
jeffrey d………..”your friend” isnt going to try make you agree to a bet you had no intention of making.
Random knew from the get go that I never stipulated Kelly being non-tendered and being re-signed for under $3 mil. “A friend” wouldnt go there.
Random is the kind of guy that one would be a fool to do business with, on any level. Instead of making a bet and being honest about the stipulations (in other words, I can be totally right about my contention that the Braves cant sign Kelly to a contract less than $3 mil because he is arbitration eligible………..and still lose the bet if Kelly were to agree to a contract after being non-tendered).
Still, I dont see Kelly signing a lower contract with the Braves if they non-tender him. If the Braves non-tendered Kelly, I see him signing with another team who will give him a chance to win a starting job at second in Spring Training (and a chance to earn more money with some playing time incentives).
Regardless, despite my feelings that the worst I can do in this bet is push no matter what stipulations Random wants to be sneaky about……..the bet is off because of how he went about this.
October 25th, 200911:49 pm
jeffrey d………..”your friend” isnt going to try make you agree to a bet you had no intention of making.
Almost got it! Just take the “your” out of the quotes and he’s there
jeffrey, go walk the dog. Maybe the Angels will comeback while you’re gone.
October 25th, 200911:50 pm
Who’s “your friend”? Does that mean they’re really not your friend?
jeffrey d……….As I stated before, if Random has brought up the non-tendering issue (which I thought was a non-issue because I assumed he knew that I never said that the Braves couldnt re-sign Kelly for less money if they non-tendered him) before the bet was made………….I may have given him that stipulation.
So I dont see how I’m being shady.
Well since I said the word “friend” it would be appropriate for him to put it in quotes.
October 25th, 200911:51 pm
To be honest, I haven’t kept up with the bet very much, Paul. It’s gotten way too convoluted for my liking.
October 25th, 200911:52 pm
Oh, I didn’t see where you said friend. I’m so confoozed.
October 25th, 200911:53 pm
I can’t watch the Yankees celebrate.
Steve from OH
I personally think it’s a dumb idea to begin with because nobody will pay, but it is fun watching PL wear his idiot badge with pride…
The Yankees and Phillies should be a pretty offensive series……possibly rivaling the 1993 Series between the Blue Jays and Phillies. The ball flies in both ballparks. Plus both teams can rake at the plate.
It should be a good World Series. I dont like either team, however from a competitive standpoint, this is the best match-up.
October 25th, 200911:55 pm
haha, idiot badge…
“It’s okay, mam, I’m a cop” flashes badge
Go Yanks i cant watch the sillies repeat
October 25th, 200911:56 pm
Good gracious, WWII was ended with less argument over terms (Moby)
I think the Random/Lentz skirmish is gonna be more like the Korean War and never come to an official resolution.
October 25th, 200911:57 pm
LA’s about to be eliminated. Somewhere Garret Anderson….fell asleep on his sofa hours ago.
October 25th, 200911:58 pm
Stephanie from Ohio………..Random and I have a difference of opinion as to how to interpret “his terms”. I interpreted the bet as being a push if Kelly Johnson was non-tendered. Random choose to view it as including the possibility of Kelly being non-tendered and being re-signed.
Again, trying to get me to agree to a bet on an issue that I never disputed…….shows your ignorance. Not once did I ever say that the Braves couldnt re-sign Kelly for under $3 mil if they non-tendered him.
October 26th, 200912:02 am
phillies are scared now
For Random to try and sneak in the non-tendering option shows that he isnt all that confident that the Braves can sign Kelly Johnson to a contract less than $3 mil……..while under their control. If I am “so wrong and off base” about this, why not just agree to sticking to what happens while Kelly Johnson is under the control of the Braves and eligible for salary arbitration?
I tell you why, because Random is a shady MoFo. And Stephanie from Ohio is a MORON.
October 26th, 200912:03 am
Ugh, my nightmare WS came to life.
Don’t know if anybody else caught this, but I just saw a #42 run from the dugout (I assume) and join the big huddle of Yankees players on the diamond.
Isn’t Rivera #42? He should’ve been in the middle to begin with.
Paul, can I ask you a question? Do you honestly think calling me “Stephanie” hurts my feelings? Or don’t you think it’s more likely that it is yet another blatant display of your idiot badge?
Honestly, how old are you? 12?
October 26th, 200912:04 am
i hope the braves trade kelly johnson tomorrow
October 26th, 200912:05 am
Mariano Rivera has been the difference maker for the Yankees. He has been virtually automatic in the playoffs throughout his career. If the Braves had him as their closer in the 90’s…….we would have won 2 or 3 more World Series titles.
Can’t trade now, Andrew.
October 26th, 200912:06 am
Stephanie from Ohio………….you started with the name calling way before me. I’m just extending you the same courtesy.
You can shove your hypocrisy up your A-HOLE.
October 26th, 200912:08 am
No trades until atter the WS, Andrew, IIRC.
October 26th, 200912:11 am
October 26th, 200912:16 am
oh ok i see, i just thought it would be funny with all this kelly talk
October 26th, 200912:31 am
The Braves are to focussed trying to spend Money on Hudson there priorities should be paying for a power bat this is there proplem always trying to get pitcher when the need to aquire a bat the focused on the wrong AREA.
October 26th, 200912:43 am
Mike65, i think resinging hudson allows the braves to get rid of lowe’s contract. as DOB has stated, the payroll will be where it was last year. while dumping some of lowe’s contract, it could possibly give the bravesaround $15-18 million to spend on a bat, if you figure that the braves would pay $4 million a year on lowe’s contract and resigning hudson to about $9 million
October 26th, 200912:47 am
“We didn’t quite get there [to the postseason]”
Didn’t “quite get there?” no kidding? I thought we made it but they didn’t let us in because Lowe and Chipper were to noisy on the plane ride over …
*”The Braves are to focused trying to spend Money on Hudson”*
I think at this point in the season when the games are still going on, it’s easier to focus on your internal players than external ones.
P. W. Hjort
October 26th, 20091:01 am
Reason number 13,587 why we’re bored and in need of more off-season rumors.
We’re putting this much mental energy into a bet over a potential non-tender candidate’s 2010 salary.
October 26th, 20091:07 am
The reason the Braves and Hudson are talking now is that the Braves have to pick up or decline Hudson option 5 days after the World Series is over.
You people just wanna b!ich about something. Why don’t you learn the rules that the game operates by.
October 26th, 20091:14 am
I think Tim Dierkes will be doing the Braves’ off-season outlook this week. He does it in reverse order of standings, alternating between leagues. The past two have been Cubs and Rays.
October 26th, 20091:55 am
I think it will be positive for us if the phillies repeat. It will force executives to move their axxes and get us better.
Im very positive that we are gonna be much better in 2010……….why? Easy………we already have the hardest thing to get when you are getting a team together……….PITCHING. And we have tons of it, enough to get of bullpen help or offensive help. You have to add to that the fact that Wren already showed last winter and spring that he knows how to push the buttons, he really put a team he thought it could win the division, and it almost did. He turned around the pitching staff from mediocre to one of the best in the majors in just 4 months. He (they) thought KJ and JF were gonna turn it around and with Mc and Chipper around and a promising CF rookie………division was winnable. We know what peace failed………JF and CK are not around anymore and KJ is on the bench. I think the magic trick Wren needs to put together this time is easier than last off season and I think he will be successful. Not sure of Braves will, but he will put us even closer to a title. They will have to give chipper the benefit of the doubt. KJ will go if the appropriate trade shows up and if not he will be a bench player………..and maybe he turns his offense around……..great bench player to have around……..
As we all know Lowe or KK will get us offensive help. Schafer could be a nice surprise next season. BJ could be added in that Lowe or KK trade and maybe even KJ……..those guys can bring us something………..and dont be surprised if McClouth gets traded if Schafer plays good winter ball………..
October 26th, 20092:00 am
Schafer starts in AAA no matter what he does in ST.
October 26th, 20092:04 am
Schafer ain’t playing Winter Ball. Though I still wouldn’t be surprised or disappointed to see McLouth traded.
October 26th, 20092:15 am
Alright, Lets Go Phillies. Although I won’t say it with an exclamation mark, ever.
October 26th, 20092:29 am
If CC wins the Cy Young award, I will stop watching/following/writing about/caring about baseball for a while…
Perhaps Lentz should make the same deal…
October 26th, 20094:11 am
Alright, Lets Go Phillies !!!!!
October 26th, 20094:23 am
He turned around the pitching staff from mediocre to one of the best in the majors in just 4 months.
I would just like to point out that the Braves had the best rotation in baseball last year.
(NOTE: Not “arguably” the best, THE MOTHER F*CKING BEST!)
October 26th, 20098:26 am
Joakim Soria, and James Loney………
Two players who could very possibly be traded. The Dodgers seriously need a lot of starting pitching help, considering they only have Billingsley, Kuroda, and Kershaw penciled in for next year. They obviously can’t take the huge loaded contract of Derek Lowe, but Kawakami really sounds good to them. They saw him at his best this year when he went 7 innings of shutout baseball in a 120 pitch effort, so they’ll think highly of him. Obviously it won’t be Kemp for Kawakami swap, Kemp is almost untouchable. It won’t be Ethier, Furcal, Martin, Manny, or Blake, but James Loney sounds very possible(Belliard could play 1B, and Dewitt 2B).
Many could say Loney is another version of Casey Kotchman. True in many ways, they’re both excellent glovemen, both hit for average, and neither one has reached their true power potential. But there is a difference between this two, Kotchman has a career 742OPS, and Loney has 806 OPS. He walked 70 timesthis year, and drove in exactly 90 runs for the second year in a row. His home and road splits are dramatically different. He hit 309 with 12 homers 54 RBI’s a 475 SLG, and a 387OBP on the road. In comparison to his home stats, in which he hit 251 with 1 HOMER 36RBI’s, and a 316SLG.
Kenshin Kawakami for James Loney and a minor leaguer.
Joakim Soria is one of the best closers in the game, and he is making 4 million next year. The royals would trade for the right group of players.
Jordan Schafer, dodgers minor leaguer, and Boone Logan for Joakim Soria. Maybe it would take another player to make this deal happen, but it would be worth it, Soria is absolutely fantastic, young, and under an affordable contract till at least 2011 with 3 affordable club options.
October 26th, 20099:17 am
Tomas (October 26th, 2009 8:26 am): “Kenshin Kawakami for James Loney and a minor leaguer. . . . Jordan Schafer, dodgers minor leaguer, and Boone Logan for Joakim Soria.”
Kawakami will not be traded.
(And after three years in the Royals system, Soria may very well be “damaged goods”.)
October 26th, 20099:32 am
Angels lose to NNY…looked just like Bobby Cox in Angels dugout making those crazy pitching changes. Bobby’s got a twin.
October 26th, 20099:33 am
Btw, here’s a link to the source which formed the basis of my speculation that Soria might be “damaged goods”:
Rany on the Royals/Release The Hounds.
October 26th, 20099:36 am
Kawakami will not be traded? So sure are you, Sheisty Random?
October 26th, 20099:39 am
I like the fact that Atlanta has some options in order to address their needs. First, they have a surplus of starting pitchers. IF Atlanta re-signs Tim Hudson, it signals to me that there is a market for Kenshin Kawakami and Derek Lowe. Here’s a thought. What if they feel that Tim Hudson can step in and provide what Derek Lowe did last season- and I feel he can- and they feel that a pitcher like Kris Medlen can provide what Kenshin Kawakami provided last season?- and I feel that he can. They can deal two starters and get bats with power or speed. What about first base? Well, you can go out and re-sign Adam LaRoche. That wouldn’t be a bad move at all. He’s a great team player. He swung the bat well and played good defense. If not LaRoche, there’s always a Nick Johnson. Is the money worth what you get in either one of those cases? I’m not so sure. It depends on what you do in trades, I think. What if you go out and sign or trade for a second baseman? He could be the leadoff type second baseman or have some power. Then, Martin Prado becomes your first baseman and you don’t need to sign a free agent first baseman. In the outfield. I like Matt Diaz as your fifth outfielder. I don’t like him as a starter. Yes, I know how he swung the bat in the second half of the season, but is it an abhoration or is this the Matt Diaz who can hit that way every day. He hasn’t hit like that over the course of a full season. I would love to see a leftfielder with speed and a right fielder with power. Bookend them around Nate McLouth who has both and ideally get a bat with pop at first base and you’ve got something. I also think the Braves should be paying attention to defense. It failed them at the end of the season. In the bullpen, I don’t think you have to have a proven closer. Proven closer are proven until they get blown up. See Brad Lidge and the whole littany of closers on the scrap heap including Billy Wagner. The obvious answer if you want to go internally is Peter Moylan. Is he ready for that? I don’t know. I think Atlanta has some options to make a good team better. I haven’t even mentioned the younguns. Is it time for Jason Heyward. It may be. The spring will tell.
Joe Posnanski/Stupid is …
October 26th, 20099:41 am
I have a question about Tim Hudson. Is he worth $9 million a season? Wow. That’s big money for a pitcher that hasn’t proven he’s back although I think he will be.
October 26th, 20099:44 am
Preacher Roe (October 26th, 2009 9:36 am): “Kawakami will not be traded? So sure are you, Sheisty?”
October 26th, 20099:50 am
Scioscia is nothing like Bobby. The Angels got screwed time and again during the entire series by the umps, and Scioscia never once jumped down the throat of an ump. Vladimir screamed at the umps, Aybar cursed out an ump, Lackey went ballistic on an ump, and not once did Scioscia defend and protect his players and lobby for better calls.
As a result, the calls kept going against his team to the point that the games look like they were fixed. But Scioscia never said a word, never left the dugout. He just bent over and took it. A truly sorry and humiliating performance (or lack thereof) by a manager we’ve been falsely led to believe was so great. Bill Belichick of the sport, my arse.
Scioscia also didn’t have his players ready to play. For a team that supposedly does all the little things right, all we saw throughout the entire series from the Angels was poor baserunning, poor fielding, and a team that looked overwhelmed by the moment. It was truly embarrassing. Scioscia should be ashamed of himself.
Preacher Roe, dont be so “shaddy”.
October 26th, 200910:16 am
Y’all-Trading Kawakami will not bring enough in return. Either in players or salary relief. If they can trade Lowe with his salary, then that’s the way they’ll go. Otherwise, then Free Hudson.
Was Lentz trying to say “Shady”? I’m confused
October 26th, 200910:19 am
CallUpHeyward (October 26th, 2009 9:39 am): “What if you go out and sign or trade for a second baseman? He could be the leadoff type second baseman or have some power. Then, Martin Prado becomes your first baseman and you don’t need to sign a free agent first baseman.”
Like Akinori Iwamura? He might be available as a FA (if the Rays decline his option) for maybe $4-5M.
For his career, he’s .275/.346/.387/.733 batting lead-off, and .292/.359/.408/.767 leading off an inning.
October 26th, 200910:21 am
Random – a belated thanks for the “props” this weekend.
And I loved the Pepperidge Blogs comment…
October 26th, 200910:33 am
jeffrey d-Being confused beats hell out of being Paul Lentz, I would imagine.
Random-Found any upside in Wagering with Weasels yet?
Teixeira didn’t do anything at the plate during the ALCS, though he did make some tremendous defensive plays.
So anyway, who do you guys (and ladies) think I should I pick in my World Series preview? I think I’m gonna go against the grain and take the Phillies, but it’s a tough call….
Finally saw Zombieland this weekend. Hilarious. Probably second-funniest movie I saw this year, behind The Hangover….
How good was Mad Men last night? I’ll answer myself: It was great….
Oh, and whoever it was that recommended Modern Family, you were right: Very good show. My brother had last week’s episode on DVR, first one I’ve seen.
October 26th, 200910:39 am
DOB-Never thought I’d say this, but if Lidge can repeat his LCS performances, the Phillies have better pitching than the Yankees and we all know they match up to anyone offensively. I’m going with the Phils, too.
October 26th, 200910:46 am
Lew: You’re right about Lidge. So much of the Phillies’ chances depend upon him. If he pitches as he has this (and last) postseason, they’ve got a good shot at winning. If he pitches as he did for much of the 2009 season, it diminishes those chances quickly.
He seems to be able to carry it for a while when he’s on a hot streak and has his confidence going. Even in pressure-filled situations.
Still, if someone does to him what Pujols once did, we know how quickly it could change….
October 26th, 200910:48 am
Oh, and speaking of the Cardinals … Mark McGwire as hitting coach? Wow. I did not see that one coming, at all.
October 26th, 200910:53 am
Next up is Canseco as strength & conditioning coach. I hear Carney Lansford’s looking for a job as well…
October 26th, 200910:59 am
McGwire is also putting himself back in the spotlight again, something he has been avoiding these past few years. I hope he realizes what he is getting into.
October 26th, 200911:04 am
Daslied, funny, I was thinking Barry Bonds, trainer for the Giants.
October 26th, 200911:09 am
Lew (October 26th, 2009 10:33 am): “Found any upside in Wagering with Weasels yet?”
I shoulda known going in that I’d wind up wrestling the Tar Baby.
Still, as far as I’M concerned, the bet is still on.
If I lose, I may ask you to be the go-between to forward a money order to the Baby Paul Lentz.
. . .
October 26th, 200911:11 am
DOB (October 26th, 2009 10:48 am): “Oh, and speaking of the Cardinals … Mark McGwire as hitting coach? Wow. I did not see that one coming, at all.”
I see it purely as a conscious and deliberate attempt by the St Louis club to rehabilitate Mac’s image with the sole goal of getting him into the HoF.
Mid Town Joe
October 26th, 200911:18 am
I sure liked listening to Steve Phillips, but that’s all over now.
October 26th, 200911:20 am
I like the Phillies only becasue they’re our NL brothers.
Did you see Kate Hudson in the stands last night?
October 26th, 200911:25 am
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but I don’t think that’s the reason. In fact, there’s a very good reason for them to hire Mark McGwire. They were an incredibly impatient team last season, even with the best hitter in baseball. Mark McGwire was like the prince of plate discipline in his heyday. The year he hit 70 HR he drew 162 unintentional walks and posted a .470 OBP. An Aside: Despite posting a superior SLG% and being down only 9 points in AVG that year, Sammy Sosa won the award having drawn 73 unintentional walks and posting a .377 OBP. Sportswriters were god damn stupid in 1997.
Will it work? I don’t know. But it’s probably just an honest attempt to become a more disciplined team at the plate.
October 26th, 200911:26 am
Loney is not a good fit for Atlanta, Soria is though.
Meant 1998. Typo, sorry. They were probably equally idiotic in 1997.
October 26th, 200911:27 am
DOB — Absolutely right about Mad Men last night. Might have been the best episode yet, never thought I’d see mr. cool (Don) brought to tears. If I heard the coming pre-views correctly, the smarmy English guy is telling Don his job is jeopardy…
October 26th, 200911:31 am
Random-Not sure if I want to be thrown into that briar patch, but I suppose I won’t melt if forced to forward payment to our resident misanthrope. What was that bet, again? Joking Dude. Joking. I don’t really want to know!!!!
Hey Dave-Where you been?
October 26th, 200911:35 am
The daily soap rolls on. RANDOM and LENTZ, plu-e-e-ze!!!! Scroll on.
October 26th, 200911:38 am
Unfortunately I think McGwire is going to end up in the HOF one of these days. It’s kind of sad that the Card’s two most recent inductees will both have career averages around .260 or so. Ozzie Smith is one of the best fielders ever and was a great player, just not Hall of Fame great.
.260 is not the average you want your hitting coach to have. And I really hope another .260 hitter isn’t inducted into Cooperstown.
October 26th, 200911:40 am
Just think. If the FILTHIES become masters of the baseball universe once again, we can proudly say we beat them 10-8 this year, with one caveat. When it counted most, we were 1-2 against them. One big bat in the middle of the line-up puts us even IMHO. Whether it’s first base or outfield, come on WREN, get the starting pitching sorted out, then go get what we need.
October 26th, 200911:41 am
Lidge in Yankee Stadium in October? Somewhere B-H Kim is grinning.
October 26th, 200911:50 am
P. W. Hjort (October 26th, 2009 11:25 am): “I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but I don’t think that’s the reason. In fact, there’s a very good reason for them to hire Mark McGwire. They were an incredibly impatient team last season, even with the best hitter in baseball. Mark McGwire was like the prince of plate discipline in his heyday. The year he hit 70 HR he drew 162 unintentional walks and posted a .470 OBP. An Aside: Despite posting a superior SLG% and being down only 9 points in AVG that year, Sammy Sosa won the award having drawn 73 unintentional walks and posting a .377 OBP. Sportswriters were god damn stupid in 1998.
“Will it work? I don’t know. But it’s probably just an honest attempt to become a more disciplined team at the plate.”
No, not joking — just cynicizing (if that’s a word).
And you’re probably right. Thanks for that perspective.
October 26th, 200911:57 am
richbrave (October 26th, 2009 11:35 am): “The daily soap rolls on. plu-e-e-ze!!!! Scroll on.”
Hey — I ain’t brought it up since before 11:30 last night, and I don’t plan to anytime soon.
I’ve posted seven comments already this morning on other, far more interesting topics.
PS: that should be “puh-leeze” or thereabouts.
October 26th, 200912:18 pm
You’re right, the reason we lost those last three series against the Phils was lack of offense. I think only once did our starting pitchers in those last three series give up more than 4 runs to that team and that was that start Hudson made. Some of our losses were 2 to 3, or 1 to 4, or 2 to 4 and so on. Our pitching gave us the chance all year against them. We got killed by Ryan Howard of course that second half but I think all but one wasn’t a solo shot. Since we insist on giving them up to him its good that most are with no one on base. Rockies and Dodgers couldn’t figure that out. They kept putting people on base in front of him and I think the dodgers walked the world in their series vs the phils.
This is a hard one to pick. I’ve seen the phils play more than the yanks so I tend to know their weaknesses better. There were times in their series in the NL where the phillies bullpen bent but they didn’t break. The starting pitching helped them out by going deep into the games. If the Yankees can work the count and get into the phils pen the way they did the angels I think they will win it all. I’m taking the Yanks but not by much. It really is a toss up.
October 26th, 200912:24 pm
That was me that mentioned Modern Family. I love that show.
October 26th, 200912:25 pm
I think Lew nailed it, if Lidge pitches well, the Phillies should win. I will pick the Phillies to win.
On McGwire, he has helped many guys in the off season and in spring training. I think that both you and PWH are correct, he can help the hitters and hopefully help his own HOF chances by being back closer to the game.
October 26th, 200912:40 pm
Mark McGwire was like the prince of plate discipline in his heyday. The year he hit 70 HR he drew 162 unintentional walks and posted a .470 OBP. An Aside: Despite posting a superior SLG% and being down only 9 points in AVG that year, Sammy Sosa won the award having drawn 73 unintentional walks and posting a .377 OBP. Sportswriters were god damn stupid in 1998. — P.W.H
No, not stupid. It’s just that many of the voting baseball writers today, and even more of them a decade ago, don’t view the MVP award as you do, as the home run-and-OPS/OBP award, or just the OBP/OPS award. You can certainly make a strong case for McGwire winning it (which is why the voting was so close that year).
But how can you say someone is stupid for giving the edge to Sosa, who hit .308 with 68 homers while leading the National League in these categories: runs (134), RBI (158), and total bases (416)? Oh, and doing it for a Cubs team that won 90 games (seven more than the Cardinals) and made the playoffs.
Some observers hopelessly inferior to you (sarcasm intended) in their understanding of the award might even bring in a silly argument that the ultimate object of baseball is to score runs, drive in runs, win games.
Personally, I think you must weigh all factors in voting for awards, and particularly for MVP. I certainly give much more weight in offensive discussions to OBP and OPS. Far more than to batting average, and far more than to RBI or runs scored, in almost any case. But some others don’t look at it the same way; that doesn’t make them stupid.
(By the way, where did this recent holier-than-thou attitude about the relative importance of specific stats come from? It’s as if some observers care less about the actual games and the players and the outcomes of the playoffs, etc., and more about the value they and other like-minded folks have assigned to specific stats, and to lording that understanding, which they view as obvious or cutting-edge or whatever, over flat-earthers who just don’t get it.)
But let me assure you, the way that plenty of old-school writers see it, and also some younger ones — not to mention a whole lot of players and others who actually make their living playing or coaching or scouting the game, rather than blogging about it in their spare time — some hitters should and do go to the plate looking to drive in runs, not draw walks. For some of them, the bottom line is, they know that driving in runs is still going to get you fatter paychecks than piling up walks — and I can assure you that bigger paychecks are more a motivator than the ultimate admiration by intelligent statheads. (Moneyball, in that sense was a rather ironic book title, don’t you think?)
Also some lineups don’t allow a hitter to draw nearly as many walks as he might get while hitting in another lineup, etc, etc, just as some lineups don’t permit a hitter to pile up ridiculously high RBI totals that he might get in another lineup, etc., etc. Hence the need to look closely on a case-by-case basis, I think.
Anyway, is it stupid for some voters to actually try to judge a player’s value to his team, and to take into account the runs he scored and drove in and the team’s overall success? Or does it take superior intelligence to not give weight to any of that and simply line up players’ OBP and/or OPS, as you apparently would, and then just give your MVP vote to the one that’s the highest, regardless of how his team finished or anything else?
(And both players were presumably blown up with PEDs, so that part’s a wash.)
October 26th, 200912:42 pm
AdirondackDave: Mad Men even does its previews better than other shows. Every week, they give you just enough to raise the anticipation level, but not enough to know exactly what any of it means — who this person or that is talking to, that kind of thing.
October 26th, 200912:54 pm
PB&Jort, even if the sportswriters were stupid in 1997 or 1998, at least they weren’t 7 years old at the time like you. I get why you were confused as to whether that was 1997 or 1998. You tend to not remember the exact year of a very memorable season when you were too young yourself to remember the year as it happened. Boy genius, my arse.
Marc in FL
October 26th, 200912:59 pm
This just in, DOB is really Scott Boras’ NASA statistician! TRUTH REVEALED!
October 26th, 20091:03 pm
What if you go out and sign or trade for a second baseman? He could be the leadoff type second baseman or have some power. Then, Martin Prado becomes your first baseman and you don’t need to sign a free agent first baseman.”
i dont care for this idea. the 2nd baseman would have to someone like brian roberts for me to even think about it. my opinion is that the braves should just resign laroche, let prado stay put and focus on getting an outfielder. moving prado to 1st base and getting almost any other 2nd baseman would be a downgrade overall.
October 26th, 20091:10 pm
We have a 2nd baseman, we have LaRoche. Let’s get a RH hitting left fielder and then we have a chance for the playoffs and a WS appearance.
October 26th, 20091:11 pm
No, it’s not stupid. However, to suggest a player who hit .308/.373/.647 with 66 HR, 158 RBI, and 134 R was more valuable than a player who hit .299/.470/.752 with 70 HR, 147 RBI, and 130 R–no matter how inferior or superior the teams were–is stupid. It’s not like McGwire had the higher OBP or OPS and was vastly inferior in every other category. He scored 4 fewer runs than Sosa. He drove in 11 fewer. His batting average was 9 points lower. He had 14 fewer total bases. These are minuscule numbers in the grand scheme of things. McGwire hit 4 more HR. Not that much of a difference there either.
The only thing either of them was distinguishably superior to the other at was the ability to walk. McGwire walked 162 times in 155 games and posted a .470 OBP. Sosa walked 73 times and posted a .373 OBP. That’s not close. Not even close to close. The rest of the categories they were roughly the same. McGwire held a .097 OBP margin, a .105 SLG% margin, and drew 89 more unintentional walks.
I suppose playing for a contender matters, but that isn’t nearly enough to outweigh the fact that one player got on base 37% of the time and one player got on base 47% of the time, when they’re virtually indistinguishable with regards to everything else.
If there’s a good argument for Sosa winning the award I haven’t seen it. It wasn’t just simply a bad choice, that MVP award is a metaphor for the age of baseball when, to quote Poz:
We baseball writers and broadcasters for years have had a monopoly on presenting the game. Pitching was 90 percent of baseball because we said so. Managers needed to bunt more because we said so. Pitchers needed to go nine innings and pitch through pain because we said so. You judged a hitter on his batting average, a pitcher on his victories, a fielder on the number of errors he made, a player on his ability to perform when the chips are down — all because we said so. You know what? We were pretty stupid.
And no matter which way you slice it. All things considered (not just his OBP or OPS or EqA or VORP or Win Shares or whatever you would have people believe I think is singularly important), Sammy Sosa was a stupid choice.
You say baseball writers looked at the award differently then. True. And a good point. However, that doesn’t make how they were looking at it correct. Maybe this doesn’t make them stupid, but it makes them misinformed. And when misinformed people are making decisions, you end up with stupid results.
October 26th, 20091:17 pm
dap01, not sure where you got your info from, but we do not have LaRoche.
October 26th, 20091:19 pm
at least they weren’t 7 years old at the time like you.
I just gotta ask, do you think it bothers me that I’m young, or that you constantly–for a lack of any other valid points–point out the fact that I’m young? I had no control over when I was born. If you think telling me I’m young is an insult or gets under my skin, you’re wrong. I’m telling you this for your own good, because you’re obviously not concerned with actually adding anything to the conversation. The only thing you’re interested in doing is tossing a few insults my way in hopes of angering me.
You’re doing it wrong!
I get why you were confused as to whether that was 1997 or 1998
Wasn’t confused, it was a typo.
October 26th, 20091:22 pm
Happ got the latest NL rookie award (BBWAA award is next month). Here’s the release:
Major League Baseball Players Recognize Top Rookie in Each League
World Series bound Happ & Chicago’s Beckham honored by peers.
New York, NY, Monday, October 26, 2009 … In a season full of outstanding rookie performances, standouts Gordon Beckham (Chicago White Sox) and J.A. Happ (Philadelphia Phillies) were voted by their peers as tops in Major League Baseball’s 2009 freshman class. Today, the Major League Baseball Players Association and ESPN Radio’s Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic announced the winners of the 2009 Players Choice Awards for each league’s Outstanding Rookie during the first of a series of segments to be broadcast exclusively this week on the Mike & Mike in the Morning show (6 am – 10 am ET). The 2009 Players Choice Awards, presented by Upper Deck, benefit the Major League Baseball Players Trust. [See complete Awards broadcast schedule below.]
Happ, 27, made an impressive jump from the Phillies’ bullpen to starter in late May, by posting a record of 12-4 with an ERA of 2.93. Drafted by the Phillies in the third round of the 2004 June draft (92nd overall), this season Happ struck out 119 batters in 166 innings pitched and posted two shutouts. In 2008, the 6’6” native of Peru, IL, finished second in the International League in strikeouts, with 151, and averaged 10.1 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched.
Beckham, 23, was drafted by Chicago in the 2008 June draft and made the jump to the Majors a quick one. He impressed his AL peers in short-order after making his season debut on June 4, and in just 103 games for the White Sox, he finished with 14 home runs, 63 RBI, 28 doubles and a .270 batting average. In 2008, Beckham attended the University of Georgia, where be batted .411 with 28 homers and 77 RBI, becoming the first Bulldog to hit over .400 since 1982. He finished the 2008 season tied for first among NCAA Division I home run leaders and was second in runs (97) and total bases (221).
Random, you may be on to something. It is clear that the Braves likely won’t be going after the upper tier free agents but players like that may be more the route they go. How is he defensively? If you go that route, you HAVE to get power in left and right field.
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