2:03 am October 22, 2009, by David O'Brien
October 23rd, 200910:33 pm
Actually it’s Crazt Trades McKnee. I wonder if they’re related
October 23rd, 200910:36 pm
I always pronounced it Duh-Q-lah but I think someone tried to correct me one time saying it was the other one – Dacooola. Crazy Gwinnetians.
jeffrey d (October 23rd, 2009 11:57 am): “I don’t know, I think clutch stats can be misleading when you’re watching a game live. Bases are loaded with 2 outs, and Chipper strikes out. HUGE disappointment, everyone’s angry, upset, etc. Chipper’s suddenly the biggest loser in the world. But even the best hitters are going to fail about 7 out of 10 times.”
You need to recalibrate your old saws.
Unless you count walks as failures, the best hitters fail only 6 times out of 10, not 7.
October 23rd, 200910:37 pm
McFann – that’s funny because Pebbles always annoyed me. Didn’t she always say da-da or something?
October 23rd, 200910:38 pm
Oh you know what I meant.
What up, Random. I haven’t seen your van circling the neighborhood in a while. What? You had to take a road trip to get rid of the bodies?
Oh hey jeffrey, my daughter says you are cute.
Steve from OH
Just look like what we’d be like without Triple T.
Get it done, Frank.
October 23rd, 200910:40 pm
Can’t argue with her there
October 23rd, 200910:42 pm
These Office Linebacker commercials are hilarious. I wonder why they didn’t air?
Three cheers for Daslied (October 23rd, 2009 12:07 pm) — well said, sir!
October 23rd, 200910:46 pm
Is it supposed to be rainy like this the whole weekend?
October 23rd, 200910:49 pm
I thought it was supposed to clear up after tonight.
N8 (October 23rd, 2009 12:09 pm): “Here’s an odd stat. It’s actually a very normal stat. It’s the splits of RBI for Chipper in our wins and in our losses. Now, common sense will tell you that your best hitter produces less in the losses than in the wins. But these are rather alarming to me.
Potentially interesting stuff there, but ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS until you baseline the data and compare Jones to all NL qualifiers (and to the Braves’ alternative options for the 3-hole), not to just the frigging NL MVP.
I mean, it’s a good start, but c’mon.
October 23rd, 200910:53 pm
Even I did the same when I was 14, there just wasn’t an internet around for me to enlighten anybody else with my ‘knowledge’.
So thats what those writings on the walls of caves were about.
October 23rd, 200910:55 pm
NICE “Major League” allusion by the Lakers
P. W. Hjort
The poll on AJC’s Braves page is this:
Should the Braves not sign first baseman Adam LaRoche, they should go after free agent …
The choices are:
October 23rd, 200910:59 pm
Those choices are terrible
October 23rd, 200911:05 pm
Yeah, ew to all of them. Especially Millar & Mientky. Seriously?
October 23rd, 200911:06 pm
I’d rather have Lentz at first base
October 23rd, 200911:07 pm
Paul Lentz (October 23rd, 2009 12:38 pm): “keylargo………..Dude, I have always known that the Braves can, in theory, negotiate a contract with Kelly Johnson without offering him salary arbitration.”
Well, it sure sounded like it to me as well that you hadn’t a clue in that regard. My mistake. (I guess.) (Being charitable.)
“However, just because the Braves have the “theoritical” right to negotiate that way……….does not mean that it is a realistic option.”
Sorry, sport — that is the ONLY realistic option for the Braves to retain Johnson.
“As David O’Brien said…..it is VERY RARE for a player to accept a contract at below his previous season’s salary during his arbitration years. The arbitration game stacked in favor of the player. Even if he has an “off year”, a salary arbitrator will factor in previous years when determining the next year’s salary.”
The Braves are not going to even offer Johnson arbitration, you simple doofus. (Unless they’ve already worked out a trade for him.)
“So, knowing that, why would Kelly Johnson give up his right to salary arbitration and accept a contract at 80% of his 2009 salary……..when he can easily get awarded $3.5 or possibly $4 mil in arbitration?”
Johnson has no right to salary arbitration unless the Braves offer it to him. And as to why he might accept a $2.4M-$2.7M contract? ‘Cause he knows that that would be more than he could negotiate as a free agent should the Braves non-tender him, that’s why. Which they would, if they cannot negotiate a contract somewhere around $2.4M-$2.7M (ballpark estimate).
“I’m not the one going around without knowledge here. I’m very aware of how the arbitration process has worked over the years.”
You could not prove that by me.
October 23rd, 200911:09 pm
I wouldn’t know- it’s supposed to be in the 80’s here
October 23rd, 200911:10 pm
jeffrey, how was yesterday?
I wouldn’t know- it’s supposed to be in the 80’s here
Oh, stop it! I prefer 60’s and 70’s anyway, so .
October 23rd, 200911:14 pm
N8 (October 23rd, 2009 1:03 pm): “DAP, of course they did. But even in years past, Chipper’s numbers (mainly batting average and slugging), weren’t THAT bad in losses.”
Okay, show us. In the same detail as you did for 2009. And baselined against all other league qualifiers.
October 23rd, 200911:16 pm
Oh it went real good…but they’re interviewing a lot more people over the next few weeks, so I won’t know until around Thanksgiving.
October 23rd, 200911:18 pm
nolie – she was just putting you on the spot (VJ)
well I hoped that was it, but she is a California girl, and you can never be sure just how much they can comprehend. .
October 23rd, 200911:21 pm
That’s good that it went well. What grade is it for?
October 23rd, 200911:24 pm
Jim (October 23rd, 2009 1:30 pm): “Suppose the Braves sign Laroche to a 3-year, or even a 4-year contract. As long as there’s not a “no trade” clause and the yearly amount is reasonable, the Braves would be able to trade Laroche if (A) Freeman is actually ready (and not just Schaefer-ready) and (B) Laroche stays healthy.”
Please explain to us exactly WHY LaRoche would give the Braves the necessary “hometown” discount (”the yearly amount is reasonable”) that would allow them to sign him for three or four years WITHOUT a no-trade clause.
‘Cause the Braves (imo) would not be able to afford market price for LaRoche. Imo, they would have to give LaRoche a no-trade clause in return for any kind of “hometown” discount.
October 23rd, 200911:25 pm
October 23rd, 200911:28 pm
‘Cause the Braves (imo) would not be able to afford market price for LaRoche. Imo, they would have to give LaRoche a no-trade clause in return for any kind of “hometown” discount.
Agreed. LaRoche primarily wants stability. This is his first time becoming a free agent and probably his last chance to sign a long-term deal. He’s also the best 1B (probably youngest, too, though I’m too lazy to look it up) on the market. If you think LaRoche is both going to take a discount and be looking at the possibility of getting traded within 2 years, well, you’re not thinking.
October 23rd, 200911:30 pm
Good night, all! I will be back tomorrow afternoon…
October 23rd, 200911:32 pm
Good night Blog folk!
October 23rd, 200911:33 pm
Daslied (October 23rd, 2009 1:42 pm): “Paul, I just realized that you are Dwight from “The Office”.
“Now, is ADD/”selective reading” really just a problem in the South? I don’t know if go away I’d say that leave. It seems to me that, based on for the love of god shut up the research I’ve read, ADD is a problem shut piehole everywhere. It’s really sad, personally, because when I was driving me insane in school in the 80s, people who did poorly in school were just go ruin a Cowboys blog “dumb”. I also remember subtle social experiments to see how people performed christ I’m going to chop my head off if you keep talking in a natural setting. Whoa, sorry for the rambling move to Greenland post!
“What do you think, Paul?”
GodDAM, what a subliminal tour de force!!!!!!!
I just had to copy it in its entirety, ’cause I want to read it again and again and again.
(And I really only do that with my own comments.)
October 23rd, 200911:41 pm
What do you think about a Lowe and Schafer deal to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp? I know that the Dodgers would like to have a more dependable starter and throw in Schafer as a good add on.
October 23rd, 200911:44 pm
SCJames–the Dodgers laugh Wren off the phone on that one…
October 23rd, 200911:47 pm
Soph – shh shh….it’s on the FB status
October 23rd, 200911:48 pm
i think derek lowe still has some value to him…i think i read a lowe for mags trade on here which i dont think would be bad for the braves…i mean seriously what other players would be available…maybe since we picked up hudson talks already that wren feels there is a good enough trade market for lowe
Bay Area Steve (October 23rd, 2009 4:20 pm): “The “worst” thing they can do is say “no”.
“Would someone please explain the intended meaning of this “posting?””
Dude, yer half a day early, aintcha?
Wassup — insomnia?
October 23rd, 200911:49 pm
I was just looking up some of Georgia’s basketball recruits. And one guy was recruited by…Mike Bobo? Is that odd, or do football coaches recruit basketball players a lot?
October 23rd, 200911:50 pm
Oops, sorry. Shushing now.
October 23rd, 200911:51 pm
what about ludwick from the cards ..his average was only .265 but had 22 and 97
October 23rd, 200911:52 pm
SCJames, oh, uh, you’re gonna get bashed by some here for that idea. Man, no way would a team trade Kemp for a 37 yr old with that contract & a rookie that unimpressed the heck out of a lot people.
Bay Area Steve (October 23rd, 2009 4:32 pm): “And, ugaaccountant, loved the line the other day about blog-tone. I forgot it now; I’d love to see it again.”
doG, yer pitiful.
I pity you.
October 23rd, 200911:55 pm
I agree with your premise that the Dodgers need pitching and good prospects, but no way are they trading a player like Kemp who is so cheap to boot for those two. They ain’t trading him, period, I think.
October 23rd, 200911:57 pm
No no, you’re good…I’m just paranoid.
October 23rd, 200911:58 pm
CB (October 23rd, 2009 5:15 pm): “nolie, I thought when you were a young man a dinosaur ruled.”
LOL. My appreciation abounds.
the dodgers might take lowe back
October 23rd, 200911:59 pm
Just wanted to throw that idea out there. I saw on MLB trade rumors where they were looking for a more dependable starting pitcher for the postseason and figured Lowe fit that bill
October 24th, 200912:00 am
I really don’t see that happening at the moment; they might, but definitely not in a package for Kemp.
October 24th, 200912:03 am
Oh nevermind…I see Marlon Brown plays football too.
no matter what happens, the braves have got to get heap out of the four hole.
he cant protect chipper and since the scouts have put the shift on he has been somewhat average.
mcfann before you go crazy i am a heap fan. the dude would be a perfect six hole kind of guy.
not his fault that he was thrust into the four hole.
October 24th, 200912:04 am
maybe wren can pull off a lowe for furcal trade just to piss off furcal
October 24th, 200912:05 am
You won’t get any complaints from McFann on that, uga-brave. She’s as anti-McCann-At-Cleanup as they come.
Who else is ready for the damn WS to get here & get over? Ah, the torcher of the waiting game. Man, we’re all so spoiled by the internet it’s not even funny.
October 24th, 200912:06 am
N8 (October 23rd, 2009 6:29 pm): “As for trading KK? I don’t think it’s a wise move. He’s a steal at around 7 million per year the next couple of years.”
doG loves you, and so does Wren. You are a truth speaker. (In this extremely limited context only.)
October 24th, 200912:07 am
TnBrian i hear that
October 24th, 200912:08 am
Ah, the torcher of the waiting game.
Somebody’s burning down the waiting game? We’d better stop them….
October 24th, 200912:14 am
youre such a pre-madonna, jeffrey.
oh hey, btw…question, how come PWH is like a tech boy wonder but doesn’t know prima donna?
and PW is a good kid, knows his stuff no doubt, but he and lentz’s postings are similar kinda? a little? forget the insults lentz throws out but c’mon…i can’t be the only one who has noticed this, am i? i dont mean they are the same person, just that their general demeanor is alike in some ways. but PW is likeable. and lentz is a social ra-tard.
but that was funny, pre-madonna or not.
Ah, the torcher of the waiting game
And ain’t it a crime shame.
October 24th, 200912:15 am
it would be a crime shame if i didn’t mention that.
What a great movie.
RHR, dude, you’re funny. And you’re right, I haven’t seen Random’s van around here lately.
October 24th, 200912:19 am
Hey now…I like PW Hjort. Comparing him to Lentz? That’s rough.
October 24th, 200912:20 am
how come PWH is like a tech boy wonder but doesn’t know prima donna?
Tech boys have their strengths. And their weaknesses. Anything that involves language or just the right side of the brain in general qualifies as a weakness.
Paul Lentz (October 23rd, 2009 7:03 pm): “ugaaccountant……..your 4:20pm is neglecting the point that Kelly Johnson isnt going to re-sign with the Braves for $2.3 mil. I’d be willing to bet anyone on here $100 that if Kelly re-signs with the Braves (whether by negotiations before the Braves deciding whether offering him salary arbitration……..or by an arbitrator)…….that he WILL NOT get less than $3 mil.
“If the Braves non-tender Kelly, then it is a moot point. However, if Kelly Johnson is wearing a Braves uniform come Spring Training, then I’ll wager anyone on here $100 that his 2010 contract wont be for less than $3 mil.”
I’ll take that.
Eff Spring Training. Lemme clarify the bet:
IF Kelly Johnson is on the Braves ML (25 man) roster in Apr 2010, you say he will not be making less than $3.0M per year.
And I say he WILL be making less than $3.0M per year.
(And we’re talking base salary, no consideration to possible incentives, right?)
All right — my $100 sez IF Johnson is on the Braves ML roster on 15 Apr 2010, he will be making less than $3.0M per year (not counting incentives).
Are you still game?
October 24th, 200912:22 am
I’m sure PWH is nothing like this guy.
October 24th, 200912:23 am
i’m not comparing him to lentz, just his “postings” … lentz is a doody head. but i mean, like…nevermind. PW isn’t like lentz, thats not what i meant.
where are the drunks? maybe they’ll understand.
October 24th, 200912:24 am
October 24th, 200912:25 am
PW – i was married to a smart guy. he was good at everything, math, science, english, history, foreign languages, picking out wives…. i dont think he has mental weaknesses. but then again, he didn’t go to tech.
October 24th, 200912:27 am
who does nolie think he is ignoring my caveman reference? how dare he.
October 24th, 200912:29 am
Vinings Jim (October 23rd, 2009 8:33 pm): “To make”
October 24th, 200912:34 am
CB (October 23rd, 2009 9:19 pm): “VJ, any good food in Savannah that you would recommend- our next trip in Nov.?”
You visit Savannah betimes?
Me, too, sometimes. Ever check out a Sand Gnats game?
(My next trip will be 1st week of March.)
October 24th, 200912:50 am
Steve from OH (October 24th, 2009 12:15 am) –
Et tu, Brute?
October 24th, 200912:59 am
Do any of you ever think this is just plain weird talking to people that you have no idea what they look like, how old they are, on & on? A lot of us are on here everyday, so that’s why I ask. I guess Gore was good for something.
October 24th, 20091:04 am
It’s pseudo-communication for the anti-social, TnBrian. Gotta love it.
Though the Gore thing irks me. I realize it’s just a joke, but Gore never said he invented the internet.
October 24th, 20091:14 am
P. W. Hjort is nothing like Lentz! Always rational and backs up everything he says. Smart as heck, too. Oh and I am sure P. W. isnt a horrible American.
October 24th, 20091:23 am
PWHjort, I don’t if I would call myself anti-social or whatever, but if I’m around strangers then I’m not one to strike up the conversation, usually. Oh, & I’ve got a bad temper so people get on my nerves pretty easy. Thought Gore did invent this thing, but I’ll take your word.
October 24th, 20091:39 am
It was a joke, TnBrian. I always forget to push the sarcasm button.
October 24th, 20091:46 am
“Okay, show us. In the same detail as you did for 2009. And baselined against all other league qualifiers.” Random
Uhh. I did that with the batting average, later in the same post.
Here is his BA in the losses for the previous few years:
2008 – .286, 2007 – .288, 2006 – .290
Since obviously his batting average wasn’t enough for you, I’ll give you the slugging and OPS in the losses (including 2009):
2009: .298 SLG, .611 OPS
2008: .415 SLG, .807 OPS
2007: .528 SLG, .892 OPS
2006: .500 SLG, .851 OPS
STILL think this wasn’t an incredibly down year for him compared to what we’re used to him doing when the team loses? I realize that he cannot control what happens around him, who is on base for him, how much speed those guys have to score on doubles, etc…. But he was so ridiculously bad in the 70 games the Braves lost this year. We’re talking Francoeur bad. Except Jeff was just that bad all of the time. LOL
I’m not going to find league averages for qualifiers, etc… Because it will be the same. I concede that. Players will usually have not played as good in losses as they do when they win. Common sense tells us if they did, they wouldn’t be losing. But compared to himself, Chipper was bad this year. Real bad. And literally did nothing in the 70 losses.
As for comparing him to Pujols? Why not. He’s damn near getting paid what Pujols is, (13 million to 16 million), if he’s going to get paid 81 percent of what Pujols gets paid, should he at least come within that vicinity of percentage of “production”?
Again, I was mainly comparing Chipper to HIMSELF. As I’ve done all year. The reason I picked the past few years, is because we haven’t made the playoffs and he’s been the “leader” of the offense. The best player. The guy Cox deems 3-hole worthy. During the “run” it wasn’t as necessary for him to carry the load, because there were others to have his back.
With his salary, and it’s direct connection to how much Wren can spend on other positions based on the Braves self imposed cap, I expect Chipper to carry this team. Period. If he doesn’t, he’s hurting the team (by taking too much salary up), more than he’s helping it. It’s not that he’s so bad the team stinks. It’s that because of his salary, Wren can’t afford help in the lineup. So the least that should be asked of him is to produce similarly to other players making around the same money as him.
October 24th, 20091:47 am
dont think he has mental weaknesses. (RHR)
he let you get away. that must qualify
October 24th, 20091:51 am
who does nolie think he is ignoring my caveman reference? how dare he (RHR)
those weren’t all baseball lineups, some of them were pinups. Didn’t have that Raquel Welch picture yet though.
Anyway you don’t reply to all my comments to you
October 24th, 20091:54 am
Random, I’ll point out again (as I did earlier today), this past season, Chipper’s SLG (.298) was actually lower than his OBP (.313) was. A one word response is all that’s necessary….
To again, reiterate my point that Chipper was “Francoeur bad” in the losses, check these out:
Jeff was involved in 88 losses overall (Braves and Mets), in those 88 games he had 84 hits (Chipper had 48 hits in 70 losses), he batted .255, with a .267 OBP, slugged .365 and had an OPS of .632. (compared to Chipper”s: .204/.313/.298/.611
How’d the old saying go? “Lose an Andruw, gain an Andruw”?
October 24th, 20092:12 am
Keep in mind people, I still like Chipper and don’t have a problem with him finishing his career in Atlanta, provided he’s productive (or the manager doesn’t plug him into the middle of the lineup when he’s not producing – a simple drop in the order would be acceptable).
I think Wren needs to assume with Chipper the exact same thing he did with Smoltz and Glavine last winter. Assume what he’ll get out of him is the EXACT same he got this year (just in case), and build the new lineup assuming he’s in decline.
He’s already signed, so it’s not like he can treat it like Glavine or Smoltz and make an incentive based deal. The deal is in place. But don’t compound one possible mistake (the extension), by assuming he’ll rebound and carry this team.
That way if Chipper does rebound and carry this team, the lineup is that much deeper and potent.
In the end, I suspect that this is exactly what Wren will do. I expect a somewhat stacked lineup next year compared to the one we started 2009 with, and with the emergence of Hanson and him being up the whole year, one of the pitchers (Vazquez, Lowe or KK) could be sacrificed to add said bat.
It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure out that some major changes are coming.
if he’s going to get paid 81 percent of what Pujols gets paid, should he at least come within that vicinity of percentage of “production”?
Positional adjustments. Chipper plays third base, Pujols plays 1B. Playing 3B and producing the same amount with your bat and glove is worth 15 more runs (1.5 more wins) than playing 1B simply due to position scarcity.
October 24th, 20092:22 am
The start of Season 3 of The Wire was so promising, but it’s just faded into dramatic bullsh!t. Shows that get too plot conscious always lose me. House is the exact same way.
October 24th, 20093:15 am
The start of Season 3 of The Wire was so promising, but it’s just faded into dramatic bullsh!t. Shows that get too plot conscious always lose me. House is the exact same way. (PWH)
gotta disagree with both those. I loved The Wire all the way through and I still love House. I will agree that I liked the first two seasons of both shows the best. They aren’t anywhere near as plot conscious as LOST is,.
Wayne in Utah (WWRFD)
October 24th, 20093:45 am
Where’d everybody go?
October 24th, 20093:56 am
Since I am talking to myself, I am not overly optimistic that LaRoche will resign with the Braves. If he doesn’t, could he work on playing first base next year?
That’s a great idea Wayno, you are a genius!
October 24th, 20094:01 am
But Wayne, if I am so smart, why am i still driving home at 2am? And why am I talking to myself?
October 24th, 20094:04 am
Never watched a single episode of Lost. I thought season 1 of The Wire was the best TV endeavor this decade. I’m higher on season 3 than season 2, but season 1 was just too great. I made that comment about The Wire because I thought it was Ellis Carver that got shot by Prez. That would’ve been lame. Turns out it was nobody of consequence in the show, which is much better.
I hate it when shows give you some unnecessary plot twist just to keep you on your toes. Doing something for the sake of being dramatic is, in itself, a turnoff. If the story/characterization/dialogue isn’t interesting enough, the show sucks.
House, though. Man. That show turned into complete garbage after season 4. The whole Cuddy having a baby plot turned me off. There was one episode when House was on the phone with Cuddy and the baby was crying in the background. The patient was all like “make it stop!”. I said, “I’m done” after that. Just trying to be too emo and dramatic. Couldn’t take it.
October 24th, 20097:09 am
N8 is the smartest dude on this blog. It used to be that I would simply scroll for the blue highlights. Now, I simply look for anything N8 contributes.
October 24th, 20098:38 am
Keeping kelly johnson is a waste of money at any price. Trading Escobar is crazy too-one of our best players. We will never trade JJ for Gonzales or anyone else. He is a big part of our present and our future, and is still cheap. And we shouldn’d trade anyone for Gonzales when we can keep our players and sign LaRoche. Sign Hudson;trade Lowe for a big bat; let Soriano go and sign LaRoche.The big bat for the OF is the toughest part. I still think Lowe is desirable for a lot of teams, but who we get for our bat is tough. Bay is too expensive; I love Ethier but he is probably untouchable; I like Renolds but that will be tough too; is Dunn a possibility for a year; I much prefer a longer term solution. I’m not sure of the answer but I bet Wrenn has his eye on who he wants already.
October 24th, 20098:59 am
Man, the night-time crowd on here goes off in some strange directions, huh?
The fact that the Braves are talking extension with Huddy says that there is significant trade interest in Lowe or Kawakami. I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t commit that much more money to the rotation without knowing they can deal one of the other two.
There are so many teams looking for starting pitching that we should be able to net something solid in return. Lowe to the Dodgers? He succeeded there for a long time and they are looking for a dependable top of the rotation guy. Innings eater as well which would save their young bullpen from pitching as much as they did last year. Not sure of what the return would be, however.
October 24th, 20099:04 am
Which teams will actually trade for Lowe? Which teams have money to trade for him?
October 24th, 20099:26 am
Acorn, I don’t think the Braves would start contract negotiations with Hudson unless they thought that there was a market for Lowe or Kawakami. If they deal Lowe, I still think they’ll have to eat some of his salary, but I can’t imagine they would have to eat too much of it.
October 24th, 20099:44 am
I think the question we need to ask ourselves first is would we rather have Lowe or Hudson for the next 3yrs? If we choose Hudson,then a lot is to be gained by signing him and trading Lowe,if the Braves have gauged there is trade interest for Lowe.If the Braves sign Hudson for less than 30mil for 3yrs and we are able to trade Lowe we have gained 15mil in difference in salary. I would hope whatever we receive back for Lowe would be a good prospect.
October 24th, 20099:51 am
What do you think about a Lowe and Schafer deal to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp? — SCJames
McCourt and the Dodgers didn’t try to re-sign Lowe when he was coming off a good season with the Dodgers a year ago, and now they’re going to take him back with three years and $45 mill left on his contract, and give up Kemp to do it? No, don’t think.
Random,my wife and I are planning a vacation to Savannah in Nov. and will be our 1st trip there. Maybe we can take in a Braves game together next year- if you let me ride shotgun in your van.
We talk baseball, other sports, music, movies, BBQ and whatever (except politics or religion)
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