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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,530 comments Add your comment
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
2:26 pm
I don’t see why there are some on here that think no one would trade for Kawakami. Have you seen the contracts that guys like Garland, Silva, Oliver Perez, and Glavine have gotten over recent seasons? Kawakami at $6.66 (kinda evil) million a year for the next two is pretty darn good for a pitcher who will give you 180+ innings with a league average ERA or better if given the ball 30 times a season.
Hudson coming back that soon may have hurt Kawakami’s trade value though. With another 5 or 6 starts and another 30 or so innings, it would have been easier to sell him as a guy who can come close to eating 200 innings for you. Maybe though the fact that they let Hudson take his spot like that indicates they have no intention of trading Kawakami, and thus were not afraid of slightly diminishing his trade value by letting Hudson have his extra 30 innings.
That is also a fair point DOB and Random raise too in whether or not trading Kawakami would hurt them in the relationships they had established in Japan. Reminds me of college football and basketball where if you recruit a kid out of a certain school, area or AAU program, you’d better not screw the kid over if you hope to go back to that school, area, or AAU program to recruit another kid.
Mid Town Joe
October 16th, 2009
2:28 pm
OK, OK. Made for some nice idea swapping. IMO I don’t see anyone dealing for our available pitchers unless the Braves eat a bunch of dollars. We’ll have to unload other available talent to get the needed RH bat.
P. W. Hjort
October 16th, 2009
2:28 pm
Wayne
Are you an NBA fan? In anticipation of NBA season, I’ve broken out the old NBA Jam! game. My favorite team to use is the Jazz because I like playing with a speedy PG who can shoot the 3 (Stockton) and having a big guy who can play good defense (Malone) as my supporting guy.
Jake W.
October 16th, 2009
2:28 pm
“Heyward is the next Chipper for this organization. Heyward will be a 295-310. hitter with 25-35 hr’s 100+rbi 15-20 sb with great D once he gets settled in majors.”-VaBraveFan
Thats what I was thinking for him, average and power. Probably not Pujols like but I can see him having numbers comparable to Chipper’s.
Daslied
October 16th, 2009
2:30 pm
Longoria’s contract is still pretty good for him, too, though. He signed it at age 22, and, if the 3 options are picked up, it’ll run out just as he turns 31. I think the minimum he’ll earn by then is around $45MM (?), and he’ll still be set up for a pretty lucrative free agency if he keeps performing.
Think about it. He signed a $45MM contract less than a week after he was called up. How often does that happen?
VaBraveFan
October 16th, 2009
2:31 pm
All this talk about Mike Cameron and Brynes as the hitter there looking for makes me laugh lol
Nady wouldnt be a bad addition but he isnt no cleanup guy. Braves Should have landed Swisher when they had the chance. They could have let Rochy walk , and move Swisher to 1st , his natural position, and Swisher is only making around 5mil a year.
Mid Town Joe
October 16th, 2009
2:32 pm
Wayne in Utah
Is that a 3-way deal?
Daslied
October 16th, 2009
2:33 pm
Holy crap, PWH – is that the Super Nintendo NBA Jam?? My all-time favorite, and my friend and I always played as Stockton/Malone. He stole the ball and shot threes, and I blocked every shot and got every rebound. We once held the computer scoreless. That might be my proudest moment.
N8
October 16th, 2009
2:33 pm
Wayne, I think why people are bringing up Cameron (at least me), is because he is RH. If a suitable power RH bat can’t be found for LF, or Derek Lee can’t be stolen from the Cubs. Trading McLouth for something and going after Cameron wouldn’t be a horrible move. Though I would like to see what McLouth can do for 162 games while healthy.
The Astros are starved for pitching (4.54 tea ERA in 09), and they have bats in their system. I wonder if they’d be open for a Lowe for Carlos Lee swap.
Lee’s contract goest through 2012 and he is owed 55 million dollars over that time. Lowe’s goes through 2012 as well and he is owed 45 million dollars.
I wonder if Wren and the Astros could work out a deal, where they split the money in the middle, and we swap guys. One of those trades that helps both clubs out by trading and area of strength for an area of need.
Both teams are overpaying for each guy over the next 3 years. Why not overpay for an area of need?
Just not sure Lee is that good away from the confines of Minute Maid juice box.
But if Lowe is going to be moved, it’s going to have to be to a team that is so loaded with money and desperate for pitching (Yankees, Sox), or for a team with enough bats in their system and a high priced bat to move/swap.
Houston and Carlos Lee fit that bill.
Thrillhouse44
October 16th, 2009
2:33 pm
Maybe we could use a guy like that (he says, only half kidding). Wayne in Utah
I’d be all for it if what I mentioned was only half true. It’s one thing to rage on an opponent (and I think this is what you’re saying we could use – and I agree), but it’s totally different to go ballistic on a teammate in public. Like I said, that’s only 2 events that we know about. Hey, if Bobby and the boys could corral him (and Frank could land him), his bat would be an awesome addition.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
2:34 pm
New spin on the discussion – Is Heyward simply the answer to our power bat in the OF today? After only 3 games in the AFL, I am ready to say that if this is his pace (.300 hitter, with power, speed, and heads up fundatmental baseball) at this level of competition, that I would prefer not to sign a Mike Cameron or Xavier Nady and just cast my lot with Heyward come April 1st.
Basically, this kid just doesn’t seem to feel any pressure.
Couple that with the fact that Diaz would be fine for me as the other OF, and sign Church as the backup. Then sign Laroche for 1B and cleanup(assuming we can’t swindle Fielder/Reynolds/Gonzalez type guys). Mike Gonzalez and 1 average FA MRP for the bullpen spots.
I mean, we all saw the 2nd half of the season. These guys were a legit playoff team with that configuration of batters and pitchers. Why not just call up our own rookie instead of searching for 1? I really don’t see that as so much of a risk to our playoff chances.
DAP
October 16th, 2009
2:35 pm
wayne i didnt even know this but cameron has his best stats from the cleanup spot. i dont know when he got those ABs though.
besides, im not one who is dead-set against mccann batting cleanup. finding a player who is a bonafide cleanup hitter might be unrealistic. i mean…name any other realistic free agent target for atlanta, and mike cameron would probably be at least as good of an option to bat cleanup, and he will definitely play better defense than whoever you can find.
P. W. Hjort
October 16th, 2009
2:36 pm
Daslied -
Oh yeah. My favorite game of all time. I never played many games, but I got a Super Nintendo for Christmas when I was 5 and it came with NBA Jam. I eventually got other games, but really only ever wanted to play NBA Jam. Great game.
MitchC
October 16th, 2009
2:36 pm
Dave, thanks for the reply to my post. I have two questions. You mentioned the Braves not wanting to go 3 years, 30 mil for Hudson. What type of contract do you think they would give him then? Are we talking something like, 3 years, 25 mil? Huddy has made on average, 11 mil through the life of his just expired contract. Would “hometown discount” mean he’d be willing to accept 3 mil a season less, five years later?
Also, you said that KK’s contract is not “unmovable”. It would seem, then, that something has to give. I dont see us being able to trade Lowe. So, that leaves us with one of three options. A. Let Hudson leave. B. Trade Vazquez or C. Trade KK. Unless my math is wrong, it would seem to me that the Braves aren’t likely to be able to keep both Hudson and Vazquez, even if KK is traded. Whatever happens with KK, either Hudson is going to be allowed to leave as a FA, or Vazquez is going to be traded, wouldnt you think? Especially since we want to get a power hitter, and we already have a surplus of starting pitching.
My gut tells me that the Braves will end up signing Hudson, trading Vazquez for a hitter, and keeping Lowe and KK. I say this because Hudson wants to stay, Lowe isnt likely to bring much trade value, we need a hitter, and Vazquez would bring the most in trade value.
N8
October 16th, 2009
2:37 pm
Perhaps the Yanks could be persuaded to do a Swisher for Lowe swap, with us sweetening the pot with somebody like Schafer? Not saying I’ve given up on Schafer. Quite the opposite, and he’s young enough to wait around for.
But even though Wren or JS would never publicly admit it, you’ve got to think that deep inside, Wren is racking his brain on a way to rid himself of Lowe’s contract. Maybe not. But as a fan…. I am. LOL
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
2:38 pm
Longoria could have fallen on his face though like Francoeur and never seen that money. The Rays were also playing the wait until June thing that the Braves played with Escobar and Hanson, and that they are likely to play with Heyward. So, instead of waiting until June, he forced them to calling him back up the second week of April after wasting a week down in the minors. It’s an outrageous and obscene club friendly contract, but he essentially got guaranteed $40+ million before ever taking an at bat in the majors. How many others have been bought out like that before ever stepping to the plate in the majors? If you think about it, it seemed crazy when Boras wanted $40+ mil guaranteed to Strasburg this summer, but we’re calling Longoria crazy for demanding and getting that same $40+ million although he had the same track record as Strasburg in the majors, which was none.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
2:38 pm
Daslied – The majority of the money is in the option years though. If he becomes a bust, they will have only paid him Kelly Johnson type money despite him being the #1 MLB prospect when he signed it.
DAP
October 16th, 2009
2:39 pm
VaBraveFanAll this talk about Mike Cameron and Brynes as the hitter there looking for makes me laugh lol
comparing byrnes with cameron? please check some stats.
N8 no reason to trade mclouth if you get cameron. why not have the best defensive outfield in the league?
VaBraveFan
October 16th, 2009
2:43 pm
DAP
I know they can play D, but niether are power hitters, Cameron is older and Brynes cant stay healthy
I wasnt comparing them! i;m sayig i hope we see niether of them in ATL next year cause there not the right handed bat that we need.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
2:44 pm
You alledge that Francouer has “fallen on his face” meaning he’s a bust. But Francouer’s money earned as a bust, for the years before the club option, are in the ballpark of what Longoria is getting for those same years. Every player who becomes even reasonably successful like a Kelly Johnson or Jeff Francouer get into the 3-5 million range during seasons 4-6. Longoria is barely ahead of that.
I agree this had something to do with the callup date, but I feel like Longoria left a ton of money on the table just to get called up immediately. Maybe he had some endorsements lined up, or maybe he just cares more about playing than the money.
P. W. Hjort
October 16th, 2009
2:44 pm
Yeah, Braveheart, ugaaccountant is right. Only ~$13 million of it was guaranteed. Plus the $3 million draft bonus he got.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
2:45 pm
Or gets them moved to another position.
The vision of Freeman in the OF is just about as ugly as that of Klesko actually playing there, LOL. Freeman has worked hard on his defense at 1B and doesn’t look bad there, but I don’t believe he has the athleticism for LF or 3B. Not without a cringe or two from the peanut gallery. Plus, there’s no telling what kind of size he’s going to carry when he gets his man-muscle; he’s a pretty healthy kid already.
Jay212033
October 16th, 2009
2:48 pm
o-me
Thanks! Every prayer helps.
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
2:49 pm
ugaaccountant, good point about the options. i got sloppy when i said he was guaranteed that money, which of course he ain’t. so never mind what i said in my 2:38
sportsmandh
October 16th, 2009
2:52 pm
DAP
yeah, I was being a smart elleck about Derek Lee, b/c in past bloggage I was beating the ‘Braves should trade for Derek Lee’ drum. I just don’t know if the Cubs have any interest in trading him. Personally I’d much rather have him than LaRoche b/c I think he’s more consistent and would be great sandwiched between Chipper and McCann.
I have no idea who the Braves are going to get. But I will personally be very suprised if they go into next year with the only move made to address offensive production is the signing of LaRoche to a 2 or 3 year contract. I expect Wren to make a bigger move somewhere.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
2:52 pm
No problem Braveheart, I was wrong about his contract until P. W. Hjort laid it out there. It’s just a mind-blowing deal.
DAP
October 16th, 2009
2:54 pm
VaBraveFanI know they can play D, but niether are power hitters,
i guess it depends on your definition. i would agree with you on byrnes, who slugged under .400 two season in a row. but cameron has average 23 homers per season over the last 4 years (and for his career). cameron’s .450 slg% would have been 4th among regular braves this past season. so he has some power. id like to find a guy with a slg% over .500, but im not sure if that is realistic, and all the those guys will cost us more with their gloves than cameron would.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
2:55 pm
Sportsmandh – I think your Derek Lee idea is pretty sound. If we’re giving them only Lowe for him. Otherwise, i’d just stick with Laroche. I have a good feeling about Laroche having his career best years over the next 3, given his age and track record. Seems everything came together for him by getting back to Atlanta.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
2:57 pm
Pirate museum anyone?
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/downtown-atlanta-could-get-164610.html
I guess with all of our ex-pirates on the roster, we’ve passed Pittsburg in the priority for this museum.
Thrillhouse44
October 16th, 2009
3:00 pm
BravOheart, Glad to see I’m not the only guy forced to watch Housewives and other trash on Bravo. Like you said, it’s a fair trade off for watching baseball and football all the time. Oh, less drive-bys by you my man. Glad to see you put the car in park and shoot it out today.
Thrillhouse44
October 16th, 2009
3:02 pm
Seriously, a pirate museum to draw tourists? I guess whatever floats your boat, matey.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
3:02 pm
I really don’t see that [on OF of Diaz, McLouth, and Heyward] as so much of a risk to our playoff chances.
Yikes.
DAP
October 16th, 2009
3:02 pm
atlanta is also getting the college football hall of fame arent they?
sportsmandh
October 16th, 2009
3:04 pm
No one has to convince me LaRoche could be good for a couple of years. I don’t have a problem with him. But for me, if there is a better alternative, I would have to look hard at it.
For 1 and 1/2 years since the Tex trade a huge weakness has been no real clean up hitter. We all know the desire for a right handed power bat too, and Wren has even mentioned things that make you believe that is something they failed to add during last offseason.
I would take possible signings or trades for 1st base on a case by case basis. While LaRoche can put up good numbers over a season, he has NOT proven or excelled ever batting 4th in the order. With that said I would take LaRoche over some others. For example, Paul Konerko. Even though he’s right handed I would stay away from him. As compared to D. Lee, I think he is over the hill and digressing.
Maybe they get some right handed pop elsewhere, even if it’s not a clean up caliber guy. Maybe like DAP says, they get Cameron on a short deal. There are alternatives, I just don’t know what one they will pick. I doubt the management knows yet either. Right handed bombers don’t grow on trees. That’s why Jason Bay is probably going to be too rich for the Braves’ budget.
Bobby
October 16th, 2009
3:11 pm
DAP-completely agree. Cameron is best baseball fit and from Georgia.
Wayne in Utah-I had Cameron batting 5th not 4th, although he could switch with Escobar and bat 7th. Cameron batted primarily 5th or 6th this year, as he did in 2006-2008.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
3:16 pm
Right handed bombers don’t grow on trees
As much as I rant about it, the team probably won’t be able to get that true bad-intentions masher that they need; they’ll get someone who is pretty good, but without that major fear factor. That probably makes signing LaRoche more need than wish, just to lengthen the lineup, and then pray that Heyward can actually live up to the hype.
gene garbage
October 16th, 2009
3:17 pm
Enter your comments here
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
3:22 pm
Look at Longoria’s comparable at the time – David Wright.
Wright signed a 6 year, $55 mil contract with the Mets with a club option for the seventh season. And that was after Wright had already proven after 2.5 seasons that he was well on his way to stardom. Including the 2.5 seasons where he didn’t make $1 mil combined, and the 6 years, $55 million contract, Wright essentially had a 9 year, $56 million contract for his first 9 seasons as compared to Longoria’s 9 years, $45 for his first 9 seasons and Longoria had not yet proven anything as compared to Wright.
I guess though having the 2.5 years experience bought Wright the extra 8 or so million guaranteed through the arb years, and the extra guaranteed $29 million in his first two free agency years.
I dunno, I’m starting to confuse myself with this, and I’m probably screwing this post up too. It’s fun thinking about though. It does look like Longoria and his agent panicked a bit and rushed too fast to get something done.
Bobby
October 16th, 2009
3:27 pm
VaBraveFan-Cameron has been more valuable (per fangraphs) than Swisher in each of the last two years. I do think we should have snagged Swisher last offseason, and would not mind him now – would prefer Cameron. Nady has had one good year in his career – he would have to be a “on the cheap” pick-up. Brynes has just not been the same player the past two years and the comparison is an insult to Cameron’s play. I know it is not saying much but Cameron would have led the Braves in homers the past two years (not bad for a non-power hitter).
N8-I really like Cameron’s defense. I think it is superior to McLouth. That is why I would like to move McLouth to one of the corner spots. I think the Braves defense hurt them last couple of years. Carlos Lee’s road production (only average) and poor defense scares me.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
3:27 pm
dunno, I’m starting to confuse myself with this, and I’m probably screwing this post up too.
Yeah, but you didn’t tout Mike Cameron, so that’s a plus, LOL.
gene garbage
October 16th, 2009
3:27 pm
oops, rookie mistake. sorry. notice any similarities on most of the teams in the playoffs? most have very good hitting first basemen with power. just saying. and LaRoche is not a cleanup hitter. he would be right where he was, 7th or 8th. one more thing, of the 4 teams left, 3 are managed by former catchers(not sure where Manuel played). catchers seem to make good managers. Greg Olson would be my pick to succeed Bobby. players liked him alot. another thing, Lowe has said he wouldn’t mind being a closer.
and the Braves will give Heyward every chance they can to see if he can make it on the roster. which i think he will.(RF) and we all know how Bobby loves to platoon guys, Diaz/Church(LF)
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
3:28 pm
Guess nobody else agrees that McLouth Prado Jones McCann Laroche Yunel Diaz Heyward is actually a really solid lineup? Other than Prado I’d say everyone in that lineup should hit 20 hr’s and everyone should have at least a .275 batting average. I’d love to trade Lowe for a big bat as much as everyone else but I don’t want to mortgage any of our future to do it.
Efrim
October 16th, 2009
3:28 pm
As much as I rant about it, the team probably won’t be able to get that true bad-intentions masher that they need
I agree, but I hope Wren doesn’t overpay for an average bat(or even slightly above average) in a corner outfield spot.
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
3:30 pm
Thrillhouse, the sad part is when you start secretly like that crap too. When Kandi’s fiance got beat to death at the strip club a few weeks ago, which I found out by blogging here with the breaking news up top, I actually found myself calling her to deliver the big breaking news. I then douched my mangina after that
Bobby
October 16th, 2009
3:31 pm
ugaaccountant-I could live with Heyward from opening day, but I am fearful after the horrible start this year by Schafer and Frenchy. That is why I think a one-year deal for Cameron is good insurance. Who knows Diaz could regress back to 2008 level. Plus you still get to postpone the clock on Heyward.
ncscoots-What do you have against Cameron?
18 Wheels of Love
October 16th, 2009
3:32 pm
Personally I think we have 90% of the pieces currently on the team. If we brought back the same team, minus a little dead weight (Norton, KJ, GA), and added Heyward to RF and X. Nady to LF, that would be tremendous. I know a lot of us wouldn’t be happy with that but we did make one hell of a run once we got the right guys out there everyday.
David O'Brien
October 16th, 2009
3:36 pm
DOB — If I understand your last Kawakami numbers, that means the “savings” to the Braves budget in 2010 and 2011 is actually about $3M per year — AdirondackDave
No, that’s not what I said. Where’d you get $3 mill per year?
I just said that Kawakami had a $2 mill signing bonus in his $23 mill deal, and a $7.667 mill sal in 2009.
Means he’s owed $13.33 mill total over next two years, instead of the $15.32 mill it would be if the contract was evenly divided over three years.
That’s all. It’s a $2 mill difference over two seasons, or $1 mill per year.
Efrim
October 16th, 2009
3:38 pm
Guess nobody else agrees that McLouth Prado Jones McCann Laroche Yunel Diaz Heyward is actually a really solid lineup?
I think it’s good, but adding a big bat in the middle of it would do wonders for this team’s run production overall. I’m not sure it’s possible to find that “big bat”, though.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
3:38 pm
Bobby – I get it, however living in fear based on last year is what got us D. Lowe at 60 million.
Now a cheap deal for Cameron’s not too bad, but I don’t want this to be like last year where Cameron downgrades into someone on G. Anderson’s level and is just a wasted roster spot.
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
3:39 pm
Hopefully, Wren will just be really patient about the big bat. Add a few decent bats here and there where he can find good deals, preferably decent bats similar to McLouth that will have trade value and that can be flipped in a later deal for a bigger bat.
It’s like what N8 said last night about Prince not yet being like Sheff in being a malcontent b!tching about contracts and wanting out. Give it enough time though, and eventually a big bat will start to pout about some b.s. or another, and hopefully the Braves can then pounce on that opportunity. Offseasons are pretty long, filled with lots of emotional conflict about off the field crap like contracts and who gets their head stuck in the hot stove for a while teams like to create trade interest. Offseasons rarely go by without some greedy egomaniac getting his feelings hurt.
Be patient, and secretly stir some sh!t up, so that eventually maybe some big bat gets p!ssed off enough to land in your lap.
Efrim
October 16th, 2009
3:40 pm
Means he’s owed $13.33 mill total over next two years
People are insane if they don’t think he’d garner interest on the trade market. Even if you consider him a back of the rotation starter, that’s still a solid deal.
DAM
October 16th, 2009
3:41 pm
Hjort–
No, they are changing the rule from allowing 2 steps–1 to gather the ball in and then 1 to jump or pivot– to 3 steps. It will be 1 step in which they gather the ball and then 2 more to do something with it. Essentially, they can gather the ball on the left foot and then take 2 additional steps, making their final move on the left foot. There won’t even be a need to dribble between the 3-point line and the goal. It is most definitely NOT the rule enforced in the college game.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
3:41 pm
ncscoots-What do you have against Cameron?
Nothing at all, I’m sure his family, not to mention animals and small children, like him immensely, LOL. He simply isn’t a player who can add anything to the Atlanta Braves in 2010 anywhere near to filling the holes on the squad, and it’s dangerous thinking to hold otherwise. Plus, DAP brings the sucker up nearly every blinkin’ day, LOL. Didn’t you read my peeves, man?
6-4-3
October 16th, 2009
3:42 pm
Would it be so bad if Wren’s only two big moves this offseason were to re-sign Hudson and LaRoche, hopefully to slightly less than market value or home town discounts? Then bring Heyward in midseason. In the meantime you play Schafer, McLouth, and Diaz to start the season.
One of the pitchers could be traded at the deadline for prospects, or another big bat if necessary. Hopefully that person is Lowe. Depth in pitching staff isn’t a bad thing.
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
3:42 pm
Well, Scoots, I didn’t mention Mike Cameron because Mike Cameron ain’t interesting. The park adjusted Mike Cameron though? Endlessly fascinating.
Efrim
October 16th, 2009
3:44 pm
Would it be so bad if Wren’s only two big moves this offseason were to re-sign Hudson and LaRoche, hopefully to slightly less than market value or home town discounts? Then bring Heyward in midseason. In the meantime you play Schafer, McLouth, and Diaz to start the season.
Sure, but don’t you actually want to win more games than the Phillies next year?
Thrillhouse44
October 16th, 2009
3:45 pm
Can’t believe I’m about to write this, but the OC is the best one. Those girls are the perfect mix of caddy and hot. The old hot ones don’t like the new hot one because she’s, well, hot. Reminds me of high school. I secretly eat it up while complaining just enough to get some brownie points from the wife.
Quick. Something manly.
Other than Prado I’d say everyone in that lineup should hit 20 hr’s
I don’t know about that. Escobar just hit his career high of 14. I think he has the potential for 20+, but I wouldn’t say it’s a given. McLouth just hit 20 for only the second time. Diaz has 36 taters in his career. And asking Heyward to jack 20 as a rookie may be asking a lot. I hope they do it, ugaaccountant, but I wouldn’t hold my breath every one of them doing it.
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
3:46 pm
WTF is up with my writing today? It’s absolutely friggin’ horrendous.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
3:47 pm
The park adjusted Mike Cameron though? Endlessly fascinating.
Geez louise, that’s all we need, to revisit last year’s mind-numbing dissertation by Shaun on that subject. And I was having a pretty good day, too, LOL.
Roman Gal
October 16th, 2009
3:47 pm
Our position players aside from Chipper are relatively young, but we don’t have many positional prospect trade chips.
Heck, I’d give up most anything in our system other than Heyward. Efrim
You’re probably right about not being able to count Johnson and Milligan yet. We’re not exactly without offense in our system. I mean, we still have Schafer and BJones on top of Heyward and Freeman.
Freeman’s value is really high right now. I wouldn’t be opposed to trading him if the right deal came along, but I’d still be hesitant. Our window of opportunity is opening now. Chipper’s getting old, Mac, Laroche, Prado, McLouth, and Escobar are all coming into their primes or are already there. Then you’ve got some guys like Heyward, Hanson, Schafer, Jurrjens, and Freeman who are young and fresh. If you ask me, that’s a good balance to go for it the next few seasons.
Wow, I’m really excited about 2010.
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
3:49 pm
Can’t believe I’m about to write this, but the OC is the best one. Those girls are the perfect mix of caddy and hot. The old hot ones don’t like the new hot one because she’s, well, hot. Reminds me of high school. I secretly eat it up while complaining just enough to get some brownie points from the wife.
Oh, geez, Thrillhouse.
BTW, Thrillhouse, your bra strap is showing.
Bobby
October 16th, 2009
3:49 pm
ugaaccountant-I understand and like I said would be okay with Heyward from opening day (especially if Church is still on the team as 4th outfielder). However, comparing Anderson and Cameron is just not fair to Mike. Cameron has outperformed Anderson at the plate consistently and significantly since 2004 (at least). When you factor in the defense, I would prefer Cameron to Bay – and to any FA outfielder besides Holliday.
StingerSplash
October 16th, 2009
3:50 pm
OK, so we get that the soon to be ex Mrs. McCourt is on the left.
But who the hell is that on the right in the Dodger uni? My name is StingerSplash, I’m a Sagittarius, I like traveling ….
DOB, haven’t been to Whistler in winter but have been there in late spring (golf trip) and Whistler does rock. Great, great place. Drove the Sea to Sky Highway and it are awesome. Vancouver rules, too.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
3:53 pm
If Johnson and Milligan aren’t ahead of Brandon Jones on the top 20 braves prospect ranking this year, I’ll never post again.
Bobby
October 16th, 2009
3:54 pm
ncscoots-I could not disagree more with your statement of “He simply isn’t a player who can add anything to the Atlanta Braves in 2010 anywhere near to filling the holes on the squad, and it’s dangerous thinking to hold otherwise.” Cameron would have been the 2nd most valuable (to McCann) position player in 2009 and 3rd (to Chipper and McCann) in 2008 on this squad.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
3:54 pm
bobby – I was saying Cameron is a good plan A. I just don’t want to miss on Cameron and then find some cheap immitation of him like say Garett Anderson. Either get a good bat or just play Heyward.
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
3:55 pm
Geez louise, that’s all we need, to revisit last year’s mind-numbing dissertation by Shaun on that subject. And I was having a pretty good day, too, LOL.
You got it wrong, bud. Wasn’t last offseason. Was actually two offseasons ago. That’s how long you’ve been subjected to the Mike Cameron thing. Remember he was the Schafer stopgap so many wanted before we settled for Kotsay.
Thrillhouse44
October 16th, 2009
3:57 pm
BTW, Thrillhouse, your bra strap is showing
Um, must have accidentally put that on after the nooner I had. I’ll take it off before I go lift weights, fix my ride, pound beers, and watch UFC at a sports bar.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
4:00 pm
Cameron would have been the 2nd most valuable (to McCann) position player in 2009 and 3rd (to Chipper and McCann) in 2008 on this squad.
Regardless of your criteria in determining “most valuable”, I hope you can see that adding a player who is not as good as the players you have now is not the optimum solution for a team that would like to improve its record in the coming year. He isn’t an impact player.
But, hey, that’s my opinion, you’re certainly welcome to think otherwise. I don’t know you well enough yet to berate you for it, LOL.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
4:01 pm
You got it wrong, bud. Wasn’t last offseason. Was actually two offseasons ago.
Good grief. I guess it gave me traumatic amnesia and I was just blocking out the details.
Efrim
October 16th, 2009
4:04 pm
Chipper’s getting old, Mac, Laroche, Prado, McLouth, and Escobar are all coming into their primes or are already there. Then you’ve got some guys like Heyward, Hanson, Schafer, Jurrjens, and Freeman who are young and fresh. If you ask me, that’s a good balance to go for it the next few seasons.
Oh I agree. And I would only want to part with Freeman for a right handed bat that we can control for a reasonable salary over the next few years(like McLouth….but not McLouth, if that makes sense). But I think that if that bat were to appear on the trade market, Wren should go for it if it doesn’t mean trading away Heyward, which they won’t do, clearly. I guess I just think that there shouldn’t be more than 1 or 2 “untouchables” in a system. I’m not sure Freeman is one of those. Now that doesn’t mean we need to deal him and more away when the first sign of a major league corner outfielder with a .850 OPS shows up. But if the right guy, under the right contract is available, then I would have no reservations trading most any player in our system at this point. Mostly because I am very excited about 2010, and think that this team can be World Series good with a couple of the right moves. I don’t know, maybe that doesn’t make sense. But I think if it were ever a time to “sell the farm” for an impact bat, this woud certainly be it.
Lunatic Fringe
October 16th, 2009
4:04 pm
Thrillhouse44,
don;t forget to hide your Mac and bring out your PC.
ugaaccountant
October 16th, 2009
4:07 pm
“But I think if it were ever a time to “sell the farm” for an impact bat, this woud certainly be it.”
oh no, not this again. I agree with everything you said, up until this point and then got scared b/c of the way things seem to not work out now due to payroll constraints.
JJ
October 16th, 2009
4:07 pm
I secretely hope that Evan Longoria suffers a career ending injury and is done and never hear of again.
Every time I hear that name, I think of Eva Longoria which then makes me think of Desperate Housewives, which then leads me to Tony Parker. That then leads me to thinking about the San Antonio spurs and Tim Duncun. I really don’t want to be thinking about all that. Frankly, I hate the Spurs.
Roman Gal
October 16th, 2009
4:07 pm
If Johnson and Milligan aren’t ahead of Brandon Jones on the top 20 braves prospect ranking this year, I’ll never post again. ugaaccountant
Considering Jones isn’t a prospect anymore, I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Us, on the other hand…
Thrillhouse44
October 16th, 2009
4:10 pm
Good point, Lunatic. The PC has all my Metallica and Wu-Tang mp3s anyways.
Duke
October 16th, 2009
4:10 pm
Craig Seger sure has the sweat stache going, but the dude can undoubtedly dress with the best of them.
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
4:10 pm
Thrillhouse44,don;t forget to hide your Mac and bring out your PC.
Well, Thrill gotta work on his effeteness a little more, LOL.
Roman Gal
October 16th, 2009
4:13 pm
But I think if it were ever a time to “sell the farm” for an impact bat, this woud certainly be it. Efrim
Oh, I agree. I don’t have a clue who I would trade Freeman for, but it would only be a smallish group of players. Who knows, maybe we can fool the Diamondbacks into trading us Justin Upton for Freeman. I’d be alright with that and they seem dupable. (Is that a word?)
Mid Town Joe
October 16th, 2009
4:14 pm
JJ
But when I think about the Spurs, I think about the Coyote Ugly Club a block away (in San Antonio)
hoot
October 16th, 2009
4:17 pm
I agree with many of you. Wren will have his work cutout for himself finding a big time rt handed bat for the fourth spot in the order. I hope that he avoids another one year filler like Anderson. Just looking at stats, high on my list would be Hunter Pence from the Stros. Don’t know what it would take, nor even IF….Someone mentioned Betimet as a possible bench player. The White sox seem to be committed to getting rid of Josh Fields. Maybe cheap protection for Chipper as well as First base relief from the right side. Any comments?
Braveheart
October 16th, 2009
4:20 pm
Thrillhouse, did you get the new Raekwon? It’s really good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jP1PliAiuc
Efrim
October 16th, 2009
4:20 pm
Who knows, maybe we can fool the Diamondbacks into trading us Justin Upton for Freeman.I’d be alright with that and they seem dupable.(Is that a word?)
I think….(on dupable) BUT I think Byrnes would have to be real liquored up to trade “The Justin Upton”.
DAP
October 16th, 2009
4:21 pm
scootsI hope you can see that adding a player who is not as good as the players you have now is not the optimum solution for a team that would like to improve its record in the coming year. He isn’t an impact player.
not an impact player? compared to who? because cameron would improve this team way over what garrett andson gave us. id say switching out anderson with cameron would improve the team record, all things being even.
to say he couldnt come close to filling the holes the braves had is silly. you dont think he would at least come close? a righthanded outfielder with speed and 25 homer power? that isnt even close?
DAP
October 16th, 2009
4:23 pm
Who knows, maybe we can fool the Diamondbacks into trading us Justin Upton for Freeman.I’d be alright with that and they seem dupable.(Is that a word?)
i think it mean “able to be duped” which would be a good description of them if they made that trade.
Duke
October 16th, 2009
4:23 pm
What’s all this talk about Mike Cameron? He may be an Atlanta native and he fits the bill of a RH power bat, but the dude strikes out way too much to be in our lineup. I’d take Diaz in a full time roll over Cameron.
Bay Area Steve
October 16th, 2009
4:24 pm
There’s a real Cotote Ugly bar?
And, how does my Comcast guide say that movie is only a one-star? Shawshank it ain’t, but one star?
TnBrian
October 16th, 2009
4:25 pm
If there’s one pitcher that will knock Victorino on his ass, it’s Padilla. Might be an interesting day in LA. I hope, because I hate both teams, but I’m bored & need some excitement.
DAP
October 16th, 2009
4:25 pm
dukebut the dude strikes out way too much to be in our lineup.
nope. strikeouts arent an issue, he still gets on base at a good rate, and we currently have 1 guy in the lineup (laroche, and he hasnt even been resigned) that will strikeout over 100 times. Ks are definitely not an issue for the braves offense.
Efrim
October 16th, 2009
4:27 pm
Has Vincente Padilla always been able to run it up there in the mid to high nineties? I just never remember his velo being that plus. Could be wrong…..
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
4:29 pm
because cameron would improve this team way over what garrett andson gave us.
Damning with faint praise there, my friend.
In any event, I don’t want to get into a big conversation about Mike Cameron, fercrissake, LOL. You like him, that’s fine by me. Tout away, and I’ll refrain from rejoinder.
Mid Town Joe
October 16th, 2009
4:30 pm
http://www.coyoteuglysaloon.com/sanantonio/
P. W. Hjort
October 16th, 2009
4:31 pm
Here’s how I’d rank the position player prospects:
1. Jason Heyward
2. Freddie Freeman
3. Christian Betancourt
4. Adam Milligan
5. Matt Young (his certainty and useful secondary skill set surpasses Cody Johnson’s upside for me)
6. Cody Johnson
7. Mycal Jones
8. Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg
9. Cory Harrilchak
10. Kyle Rose
11. Brandon Hicks
12. Luis Sumoza
13. Gerardo Rodriguez
14. Travis Jones
Thrillhouse44
October 16th, 2009
4:33 pm
I hadn’t heard much about the new Raekwon. I’ll have to check it out on your recommendation. I got the new Blueprint, Obie Trice’s 2nd Round’s on Me, and Proof’s CD a couple weeks ago. I like Blueprint 3, but not as much as the American Gangsta soundtrack. Proof’s album is pretty gritty. I’ve only listened through it once, and I really don’t think that’s a fair way to judge hip hop. Obie’s is alright, but not as hot as Cheers.
I definitely dig the track you linked to (thanks for not Rick Rolling me). I may hit up iTunes (sorry Lunatic Fringe) tonight after a few.
Bobby
October 16th, 2009
4:37 pm
ugaaccount-Got it. Sounds like we are on the same page after all.
ncscoots-I use several things to determine value but in this case fangraphs is a good “third-party” source. Cameron has been and is better than any current Braves OF – so how is that not impactful?
Duke-Diaz over Cameron on full-time basis is laughable. You should really be ashamed of that comment. Diaz over Cameron based on what?
ncscoots
October 16th, 2009
4:38 pm
Diaz over Cameron based on what?
Please point out where I said anything of the kind, bro.
Mike Jones
October 16th, 2009
4:39 pm
7. Mycal Jones
Who?
TnBrian
October 16th, 2009
4:43 pm
I like Cameron & always have. He’ll give you what, 20/25 HR’s, good defense & some speed. I think if Chipper can bounce back, McLouth can be what he was in Pitts. & they resign LaRoche then you have a very solid lineup. Problem is this… how do we know Chipper & Nate won’t have another ‘09 season? I don’t think Cameron could pick up that much slack. Honestly, I’m not sure a Nelson Cruz could either so Cameron might not be a bad option for Atlanta.
Bay Area Steve
October 16th, 2009
4:44 pm
‘Preciate it, Mid Town.
What a story.
JJ
October 16th, 2009
4:45 pm
Try Greg Norton as Closer?
The plus side:
He’s got to be good at something. You can’t say the guy isn’t familiar with strikeouts or double plays with key runs in scoring position towards the end of the game.
The down side:
If he pitched the 9th and is a tie, Bobby would leave him in to bat for himself. At away games, Bobby would enter him as pinch hitter in the top of the 9th and then double switch/keep him in the pitch the bottom.
He would in a sense, save a roster position because he could bat and pitch. That would be a positive but would also be a negative because Bobby would continue to send him up to bat.
Norton can break the record for most & quickest appearances in a season for pitching and batting. The challenge would be where he’d be for the least amount of time. Would it be faster for him to strikeout on 3-4 pitches or for him to give up the winning/walk-off hit while closing out the 9th.