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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,530 comments Add your comment
Mixxo
October 15th, 2009
8:52 pm
Finally…..REAL baseball!
Go Dodgers!
Mixxo
October 15th, 2009
8:54 pm
Loved that “catcher” analysis earlier too.
“….need defense first….in the big leagues…”
Thank you!
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
8:55 pm
Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!
“Another whole bag of worms”?
Never heard it put that way before…but maybe I need to get out more…
Anyway, I’d like to see the Braves hold on to Timmy. But I guess if they can’t, they can’t…
flange1
October 15th, 2009
8:55 pm
Thanks for the new blog DOB!
We needed a change of pace from the last one!
Mixxo
October 15th, 2009
8:55 pm
Cat Stevens > The man in black IMO.
Mitchie-san
October 15th, 2009
9:01 pm
Whoa! New blog! Thanks DOB. Lets leave all the negativity on the last one.
Mitchie-san
October 15th, 2009
9:03 pm
Thanks for the info on the ESPN mag. I just booked two years for 8 bucks.
David O'Brien
October 15th, 2009
9:12 pm
Sorry, the blog wasn’t completed when I posted it. It is now. Take another look if you get a chance.
Braveheart
October 15th, 2009
9:19 pm
Thanks for the new blog DOB. I neglected to thank you and Carroll for another great season with the blog, so thanks. I wasn’t able to participate in the blog as much this season as I have in the past due to work and life, but I did read daily, and the thing you learn is that this blog is great whether you are engaging in minute-to-minute hand-to-hand combat with fellow denizens like I used to love doing, or whether you’ve turned into a drive-by shooter who throws a few thoughts out there every few days or so, or whether you’re just casually reading along throughout the workday while either trying to get work done or trying to survive suffering through your girlfriend making you watch every friggin’ stupid show on the Bravo channel. But, hey, that’s the deal. If I wanna make her suffer through watching the Bravos as much as I do, I’ve also gotta suffer through watching way too much Bravo.
And, yes, that show Community is hilarious. I can’t get enough of that high strung Asian instructor.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
9:19 pm
At least Werth ended up getting out anyway, but dang…Opie Kershaw had Howard struck out twice!
C’est dommage…
ncgary
October 15th, 2009
9:19 pm
how much of lowes salary would have to be eaten to trade him? 4 million in 11 and 6 million in 12?
Mid Town Joe
October 15th, 2009
9:21 pm
Question still remains, though I could surf til I found the answer, is Stan Kasten still with the Nats? The answer is yes, and I’m sure this has much to do about Clark heading to DC.
David O'Brien
October 15th, 2009
9:27 pm
Mid Town Joe: If you’d read the blog, you would have your answer.
Danga
October 15th, 2009
9:28 pm
Did I just hear one of those guys call Ronnie Belliard a professional hitter? If I were Garret Anderson, I would be insulted.
David O'Brien
October 15th, 2009
9:33 pm
For the record, I picked Phillies in six games and Angels in seven in my two LCS preview stories.
DOBsIntenionalGrammarError
October 15th, 2009
9:38 pm
I hate proofreading. Nicetouch.
P. W. Hjort
October 15th, 2009
9:38 pm
The Braves outrighted Reid Gorecki, Jorge Campillo, and Buddy Carlyle.
Mitchie-san
October 15th, 2009
9:38 pm
DOB, have you checked out Modern Family? Its very funny, too.
TnBrian
October 15th, 2009
9:39 pm
McFann, good call on that Kershaw kid. He does resemble Opie.
Alright, I know they haven’t been good for that long, those damn Phillies, but I’m seriously over watching this bunch in the playoffs. Howard squating at the plate like he’s letting loose his lunch, Manuel bobbin his head & body all over the place, & really just that entire team in general. It’s time for the Braves to wipe those turds out starting in 2010. I think the new Heyward/McCann/Hanson/JJ/Yunel era will do just that.
BravesFanChris25
October 15th, 2009
9:40 pm
New Bloggage
Andrew
October 15th, 2009
9:41 pm
Heyward already living up to hype at AFL
Thursday, October 15, 2009 | Print Entry
Posted by Jason Grey
Three reasons to pay close attention to this year’s Arizona Fall League campaign:
1. Tommy Hanson
2. Gordon Beckham
3. Andrew Bailey
Those were just some of the names who announced they were ready to make an impact at the big league level in 2009 after starring in the AFL in 2008. The league is known as a finishing school for some of the game’s top prospects, because every year there are players who parlay strong AFL performances into rookie of the year consideration in the big leagues the following season.
Thirty-eight of the participants at the 2009 MLB All-Star Game were AFL alumni, and 18 players who played in the AFL have gone on to win rookie of the year awards. Fantasy players who want to get a jump on their competition and find some potential bargains for next year would be well advised to follow the happenings in the Valley of the Sun.
That’s where this blog will come in. It will be updated five days a week during the next five weeks with scouting reports, interviews and various observations about what’s happening in the AFL.
• The league began its 18th season Tuesday, and obviously the big story is the presence of the best pitching prospect in baseball, Stephen Strasburg.
On Opening Day in Phoenix, no fewer than four people came up to me behind the plate to ask me when Strasburg would make his first start. That will come Friday night. Even scouts are asking one another, “You’re going to be there on Friday, right?” even if they’re not officially assigned to scout his team. Strasburg has pitched in two instructional league games since signing, so this isn’t technically his pro debut, but it’s still shaping up to be an event. I’ll have a full scouting report afterward.
• The starting rotations for each team are set, but don’t read too much into them if you’re trying to determine who the “best” pitchers are on each team. There are a lot of factors, ranging from workload limitations to luck of the draw to organizational priorities, that factor into who gets selected to start, and the rotations are always very much in flux and subject to change. Here are the starting fives to open the AFL and the major league teams with which they’re affiliated:
Scottsdale
1. Joe Martinez, San Francisco Giants; 2. Donald Veal, Pittsburgh Pirates; 3. Michael Cisco, Philadelphia Phillies; 4. Chaz Roe, Colorado Rockies; 5. Bryan Augenstein, Arizona Diamondbacks
Mesa
1. Randon Bierd, Boston Red Sox; 2. Mike McCardell, Minnesota Twins; 3. Tommy Mendoza, Los Angeles Angels; 4. Andrew Cashner, Chicago Cubs; 5. Andrew Miller, Florida Marlins
Phoenix
1. Ryohei Tanaka, Baltimore Orioles; 2. Robert Ray, Toronto Blue Jays; 3. Mitch Talbot, Tampa Bay Rays; 4. Stephen Strasburg, Washington Nationals; 5. James Simmons, Oakland Athletics
Peoria Saguaros
1. Mike Minor, Atlanta Braves; 2. Jeff Lyman, Atlanta Braves (The Cleveland Indians’ Zach Putnam was the original starter, but was scratched); 3. Mike Leake, Cincinnati Reds; 4. Steve Garrison, San Diego Padres; 5. Wilton Lopez, Houston Astros
Peoria Javelinas
1. Scot Drucker, Detroit Tigers; 2. Justin Cassel, Chicago White Sox; 3. Nick Hill, Seattle Mariners; 4. Josh Butler, Milwaukee Brewers; 5. Travis Schlichting, Los Angeles Dodgers
Surprise
1. Ian Kennedy, New York Yankees; 2. Jenrry Mejia, New York Mets; 3. Danny Gutierrez, Texas Rangers; 4. Blake Wood, Kansas City Royals; 5. Mike Parisi, St. Louis Cardinals
• Another twist to AFL rosters this year is the presence of five pitchers from Japan’s Nippon Professional Baseball league. It’s the first time players from outside Major League Baseball have been invited to participate on Fall League teams.
Some quick notes from action on the field the first couple of days:
• Not only is the best pitching prospect in baseball here, the best hitting prospect is as well. Atlanta Braves outfielder Jason Heyward has taken all of two games to impress the heck out of everyone. Whether it was a hustle double on a blooper on one occasion, stealing third almost standing up by reading the pitcher well on another or showing the patience to work the count before ripping a line drive to right field, Heyward has been as advertised, and it’s hard to see him not opening next year in right field in Atlanta. Keith Law put forth a potential career path similar to Justin Upton, in which he’ll hold his own his first year in the bigs (Upton slugged .463 as a 20-year-old rookie) before breaking out in his second. I wouldn’t argue with that.
TnBrian
October 15th, 2009
9:41 pm
One more thing… somebody, anybody explain to me what in the hell is in Utley’s hair. It’s like he squeezed out grease from a burger into a bowl & dipped his head in it.
David O'Brien
October 15th, 2009
9:42 pm
Thanks, Braveheart.
And your contributions here are much appreciated.
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
9:43 pm
Then Hudson starting yelling at me in front of the rest of the clubhouse. DOB
This joke was definitely funnier than your Mac joke earlier. Good job.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
9:46 pm
TnBrian good call on that Kershaw kid.
Thanks. Though I can’t take full credit for it…I think it was my Mom who first ended the mystery of who he was reminding us of during that August 8th start against the Braves…
I know they haven’t been good for that long, those damn Phillies, but I’m seriously over watching this bunch in the playoffs.
So am I…Elgth! I’m just sicka the Fillies–period, stop. I mean, yuck! I sicka the sight of their faces–especially the Reaper’s. He’s just so annoying…
Ah yes¬and another RBI double.
OK, I get it…guys hit doubles. Sheesh. Leave me alone, already. 
TnBrian
October 15th, 2009
9:50 pm
I’ll tell you what the leauge ought to do this offseason… watch some videos of how Braves pitchers pitched to Howard & the Philles during the first few series we had with them in ‘09. They owned them, but somehow got away from it.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
9:54 pm
TnBrian They owned them, but somehow got away from it.
Yeah…that was annoying when they got away from it. BMac quit hittin’ ‘em towards the end there, too. I mean, he wasn’t that bad in the last series against them, but he wasn’t exactly his usual Fillie-killin’ self. That last series in CBP left a lot to be desired…
Steve from OH
October 15th, 2009
9:55 pm
Anyone watching 30 Rock? Really good tonight…
Loved the Nixon joke.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
9:55 pm
Oh for the love of Pete…
This is torture, I tell you. Torture!
Drive-by
October 15th, 2009
9:56 pm
Where did those 14 years go? I wish I could go to a playoff game…..
Braveheart
October 15th, 2009
9:58 pm
Thanks DOB.
Cool to see Heyward getting compliments for his hustle and smart baserunning in the AFL. It’s interesting because the one game I saw him play at Gwinnett this year, all he did was leg out two infield hits with hustle, steal second, and score from second on an infield single by Matt Young. Really cool to see that not only will he create and get runs in with his hitting, slugging, and walking, but will also manufacture some cheap runs with hustle and above average speed combined with intuitive baseball smarts.
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
10:03 pm
…and while this team had many problems in 2009, McLouth’s defense wasn’t one of them. Ronald
I disagree. Just because it wasn’t the biggest problem doesn’t mean it wasn’t a problem. I’m not going to say that Schafer didn’t have his problems while he was with the big club (offensively and defensively), because he did. And I’m not saying that I’d rather Schafer start the year playing center field for Atlanta, because I don’t think he should. But I still say it would be a mistake to trade him right now for various reasons.
First, you’re right. He didn’t have a good year and he had surgery to top it off. His trade value is very low. Second, when you think about the outfield for the Braves in 5 years, who do you see out there? Heyward, obviously. McLouth, possibly. Matt Diaz? Ryan Church? Our farm system isn’t exactly overflowing with outfield prospects at the moment. Sure, we have some left fielders or potential left fielders (Adam Milligan and Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburg come to mind) there, but Schafer is much more than that. He’s a great center fielder. Better than McLouth.
Don’t get me wrong, I love McLouth. But I’ll love McLouth more when I don’t have to deal with his defense in center anymore.
I also wonder how good Schafer will be offensively, whereas McLouth is more of a known commodity
That’s fair enough, but I’m not suggesting we replace McLouth, I’m suggesting he move over when Schafer is ready. Schafer isn’t as bad as his numbers would have you suggest.
Obviously, free agency could change all that. For all I know, the Matt Holliday will be a Brave next season.
P. W. Hjort
October 15th, 2009
10:04 pm
Steve from OH,
That was a great episode. It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia looks hilarious. Just started.
Danga
October 15th, 2009
10:05 pm
Manny makes me sick.
David O'Brien
October 15th, 2009
10:05 pm
Unbelievable.
Hamels is a shell of the pitcher he was on this stage a year ago.
Couch Tater
October 15th, 2009
10:05 pm
Manny being Manny…crowds back in it.
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:06 pm
Manny makes me sick.
Me too, Danga. Me too.
Braveheart
October 15th, 2009
10:06 pm
Since we’re talking about Hudson, might as well go ahead and give a link to the benefit concert he and his wife are throwing (and that he’s been pimping on sports radio here in Atlanta all week):
http://hudsonfamilyfoundation.com/upcoming-events
Danga
October 15th, 2009
10:06 pm
Well said Roman Gal. I couldn’t agree more.
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
10:07 pm
McFann @ 9:46
I’m very surprised at you! You didn’t edit that “D” word in your italics section…I guess the Reaper just has that effect on people, eh?
driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:08 pm
Had to think Manny would show up in this game. I think if the Dodgers lose this game they lose the series.
Steve from OH
October 15th, 2009
10:08 pm
Our farm system isn’t exactly overflowing with outfield prospects at the moment.
Our farm really isn’t overflowing with bats period, outside of Heyward and Freeman.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
10:09 pm
Roman Gal–
Uh…shoot…um…
Didn’t see that one.
Oh, I’m so embarrassed! But you’re right, uh…about the Reaper…
driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:09 pm
Here is hoping that Huddy stays with us. That being said which pitcher is going to be the trade value for the bat we most desparately need? My guess is Javy?
Chris Chambliss
October 15th, 2009
10:10 pm
DOB – thanks for a great blog. Man, I love Huddy — I wish we could trade Kawakami and keep him around. Huddy 3 years 24Mil with some incentives would lock him up. But if Wren isn’t able to move KK and his $8M a year (?) then I guess I understand. No matter what happens, I know Wren is going to add a big stick and so far he’s shown that he’s fully capable of making a move. Let’s go get big Adam Dunn and be dunn with it — the NL East will belong to the Bravos in 2010.
Most excited I’ve been about the Bravos chances in a long time. GO BRAVES!
driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:10 pm
In a perfect world we can keep ALL of them but we all know that wont be the case here.
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
10:12 pm
Thanks, Danga.
I think I’ll hop off my soap box now. I get a little nutty when people start dissin’ on
DumboSchafer…driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:15 pm
I just dont think with KK’s contract and the fact that he is hardly the choice that other clubs will covet. KK is with us for the long run … you gotta give something with value to get something. My guess would be sign Huddy (however they will do it) he has stated he would take a hometown discount.
Javier Vasquez is the most obvious choice to get something. The guy is coming off pretty much career numbers, so lets see what we can get with him and possibly some lower minor prospects.
What do you think DOB?
Rick
October 15th, 2009
10:16 pm
Why is it that whenever a player leaves Atlanta and goes to another team he is an instant success. However when a really great player comnes to Atlanta they go downhill. Oh it couldn’t be that sorry excuse for a manager, Bobby Cox, now could it? That boob Cox should be arrested and charged with impersonating a major leauge manager.
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
10:16 pm
Our farm really isn’t overflowing with bats period
True. It’s a little sad that Hicks is actually considered one of our top bats. I have a hard time coming up with 5 good hitting prospects at or above single-A. Heyward, Freeman, Milligan, Johnson…
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:18 pm
However when a really great player comnes to Atlanta they go downhill.
Like who?
Vinings Jim
October 15th, 2009
10:18 pm
DOB – thanks – one of my all-time favorite songs…and excellent blog
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
10:21 pm
McFann-
Just don’t let it happen again. We’ve got enough potty-mouths around here already, and we don’t have enough soap to go around…and trust me, it doesn’t taste good.
nolie
October 15th, 2009
10:22 pm
Lose a Lentz, gain a Lentz. (KL)
nature abhors a vacuum
driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:23 pm
Rick… I know where you are going with this so I will flip it around a bit …. How about the JD Drew when he was a Brave = his best output of power in his career. Lets not forget Sheff who was all world down here as well. His numbers were just sick!
Rick, when you say PLAYERS please address the player(s) you are talking about. That would make for a much better post. Otherwise its up in the air.
Jake W.
October 15th, 2009
10:25 pm
“Why is it that whenever a player leaves Atlanta and goes to another team he is an instant success. However when a really great player comnes to Atlanta they go downhill.”Rick
You mean like Willie Harris, Betemit, Edgar Renteria. They’re terrific now
Not to mention that Vazquez guy sucks now and Diaz, don’t get me started on him.
Jake W.
October 15th, 2009
10:28 pm
Dodgers are into that weak philly pen, something the Rockies couldn’t do enough. We will see what happens.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:28 pm
Don’t forget Andruw!
driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:30 pm
Jake W. Check your stats and the teams they play on my friend. Willie Harris played for the worst team in baseball (Washington) Renteria … we had his final best year when he was in the ATL.
Vasquez could have won 20 games this year with a little more offensive support. The Dude still pitched over 200 innings and 200 K’s … how does that suck????
Mitchie-san
October 15th, 2009
10:30 pm
Andruw stunk it up in Atlanta, too.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
10:32 pm
Roman Gal Just don’t let it happen again.
Oh, I won’t. I’ll try to watch myself better…been a long week, though. But that’s no excuse…
we don’t have enough soap to go around…and trust me, it doesn’t taste good.
I wouldn’t think it would…taste good, I mean. And I sure don’t wanna try it…
Jake W Not to mention that Vazquez guy [sinks] now and Diaz, don’t get me started on him.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:32 pm
Yeah but at least he had decent power his last year. Once he went to LA, though….Stinktown.
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:32 pm
Millwood, J. Wright, and Estrada too.
driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:33 pm
2010-2012 Braves wont have to worry about that. Good young players here and coming up and the postseason will be back to us sooner than later.
That being said screw the Phillies GO DODGERS.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
10:33 pm
driver8–
I think Jake W was making a joke.
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
10:33 pm
This might be a little scary for y’all…
The top hitting prospects for the Braves going into 2009 were (in no particular order):
1. Jason Heyward
2. Freddie Freeman
3. Jordan Schafer
4. Gorkys Hernandez
5. Tyler Flowers
6. Brandon Hicks
7. Eric Campbell
8. Kala Ka’aihue
9. Jon Gilmore
10. Brent Lillibridge
Heyward and Freeman are still Heyward and Freeman. Schafer’s no longer a prospect. Hernandez, Flowers, Lillibridge, and Gilmore were traded away. Campbell and Ka’aihue are no longer in the organization. And Hicks hasn’t exactly dazzled anyone.
Mitchie-san
October 15th, 2009
10:33 pm
For what its worth, it looks like Rudy Jaramillo might go to the Cubs.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:34 pm
Estrada got huge after he left Atlanta too.
Mitchie-san
October 15th, 2009
10:34 pm
Oops, according to Heyman.
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:34 pm
Um, I’m 99% sure Jake was being sarcastic. I don’t think he really meant Vazquez sucked.
Jake W.
October 15th, 2009
10:34 pm
driver8
Dog on computers, hard to pick up sarcasm.
Let’s try this:
You mean like Willie Harris, Betemit, Edgar Renteria. They’re terrific now.
driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:34 pm
Jake and McFann… my bad for not seeing the funnies in it .. so sorry all.
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
10:35 pm
Oh, and Cody Johnson…
Meh, my point’s still the same.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:35 pm
We traded Lillibridge? He was a flat-hatter anyway.
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:37 pm
Oh, and let’s throw in Marcus Giles too.
driver8
October 15th, 2009
10:37 pm
Jake W … i didnt catch the sacrasm …. my bad. I really think we are going to be fine. I have total trust in this organization…lets hope they leave Orlando with a good gameplan in mind for next year.
Go Braves…..
Go Dodgers …dont want the Phillies to get to the WS.
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:37 pm
Lilly-bridgeeeeeeeeee. I love his name.
Jake W.
October 15th, 2009
10:37 pm
driver8, Thats cool. Where i would have a problem is if you agreed with that post.
Former brave up to bat now
nolie
October 15th, 2009
10:38 pm
Huddy 3 years 24Mil with some incentives would lock him up. (CC)
I don’t agree with that at all. It’s gonna take 27-30 with the very poor free agent talent available this winter IMO
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:38 pm
As Skip would say, it’s time for the ol’ Merry-Go-Round play
Roman Gal
October 15th, 2009
10:39 pm
I’ll try to watch myself better…been a long week, though. But that’s no excuse…
McFann, you’re a hoot.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
10:41 pm
jeffrey d Estrada got huge after he left Atlanta too.
That was mean…
driver8–
Hey, no sweat.
Happens to the best of ‘em…us…
keylargo
October 15th, 2009
10:41 pm
driver8
JakeW is an exception. Hardly anyone else on here is cynical or sarcastic.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
10:42 pm
Roman Gal–
Thank you!
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:45 pm
Esco would’ve gotten that…
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:46 pm
Well, he did.
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:50 pm
Well, he did.
Yeah, even though it was mean, I have to agree with jeffrey on this one.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:52 pm
I was looking for photographic evidence and came across a cuddly former Brave.
http://media.scout.com/Media/MLB/231914_JEstradaRayKing.JPG
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:53 pm
Ray Ray! I was never too fond of him.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:53 pm
I was at a game a few years ago, and they were announcing some sort of contest over the PA. The grand prize? An autographed picture of Ray King.
I was like, “Really? Of all the Braves, they think Ray King is going to garner the most interest?”
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:53 pm
I called Ray “Cheeseburger”
Wide Right
October 15th, 2009
10:54 pm
watching Dodgers game…is that Mary Hart of Entertainment Tonight at the pitcher’s right of the backstop signage? Blue sweater, front row…excessive towel waving.
I had a buddy who played Cat Stevens greatest hits all the time and i always had an issue with this song. Kind of melodramatic…and I never understood the father’s point of view. “You’re still young, that’s your fault” he says…well, gee, dad I’ll work on that. But I do like the Cash/Fiona Apple version. Shes underrated…did a great cover of Elvis Costello’s I Want You. And Extraordinary Machine is a great album.
Thx for the Huddy update, DOB. If Hudson takes, say, 9MM a year…didnt he get 15MM this year? Assuming payroll stays the same I really hope they take those savings and make a good offer to LaRoche.
Soph
October 15th, 2009
10:55 pm
Will the blog let me type the name of the Phillies pitcher that’s pitching right now or will it eat it?
Danga
October 15th, 2009
10:56 pm
An autographed picture of Ray King.
Sweetness. I would display that bad boy with pride.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:56 pm
Bastardo.
No, you can say it.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:57 pm
Did I say picture? I meant baseball.
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
10:58 pm
I didn’t say I disagreed with jeffrey, I just meant it was in bad taste…Just bein’ a pain…
Anyway, time to close up shop on my end. Night, all!
McFann Ô
October 15th, 2009
10:58 pm
Oops…
Count de Monet
October 15th, 2009
10:59 pm
DeMacio and not Paul Lentz…I don’t get it.
jeffrey d
October 15th, 2009
10:59 pm
And McFann ends the evening with a big error