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© 2010 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,753 comments Add your comment
nolie
October 14th, 2009
1:25 am
I guess CASTLE ain’t a cool enough show for most on the board, but I like the fact that real authors like Mike Connelly (my favorite) and James Patterson(not so favorite) and Steve Cannell get to make cameo appearances as themselves at the poker games. Yeah OK I’m easy to amuse.
Count de Monet
October 14th, 2009
1:31 am
Nolie
I like Castle…good show.
Gone Viral
October 14th, 2009
1:31 am
“pre-Madonna”
Jose Canseco was so much better pre-Madonna.
Gone Viral
October 14th, 2009
1:32 am
“I guess CASTLE ain’t a cool enough show for most on the board”
I freakin’ love it. This past week’s episode was tremendous.
Count de Monet
October 14th, 2009
1:32 am
GV
pre-Madonna = hilarious
Jake W.
October 14th, 2009
1:35 am
P. W. Hjort
And what inferior player is that? In fact, who is the superior player? Kelly Johnson who in his limited time off the bench last season had a .254 BA,.365 OBP,and .828 OPS. We already have Omar Infante, he can play second and outfield(the only known big league positions KJ has played). Why do we need KJ? His numbers are .305/.361/.750 in those same categories.
This isn’t about ego, this is about doing whats best for the player. If KJ was our second baseman I wouldn’t recommend we do that to him. Why, because the more time at one position usually the better the player plays there or at least thats what I have heard some people say. I never said anything had to do with emotions or how this player feels. Its about whats best for the team and having KJ come off the bench is not that. KJ’s assets off the bench would be what, his defense at 2nd? Oh he can hit so he could be our main pinch hitter. You know that job we payed Norton 800,000 for last year. You really want to waste someone who could play everyday for that? No you would rather Martin Prado in his 1st full year as a starter play musical chairs not because its in the best interest of the team but because it keeps KJ on the roster. Someone who plays there best ball when they are STARTING REGULARLY. How does that make us a better team? Him wasting away on the bench instead of starting and especially if money spent to keep him on the bench keeps us from addressing other issues. Makes perfect sense.
nolie
October 14th, 2009
1:40 am
Jose Canseco was so much better pre-Madonna.
how ’bout Arod?
Coach (2010-Mr.Overrated Retires)
October 14th, 2009
1:40 am
Did somebody mention Nelson Cruz? That dude sucks
Gone Viral
October 14th, 2009
1:50 am
ARod is a lot better post-Maddona, current-Penny Lane.
Jake W.
October 14th, 2009
1:57 am
For that 1:35 am post thats actually a .349 OBP for KJ instead of .365. Late night typing….
diehard brave
October 14th, 2009
1:59 am
what r u doing right now?
Bobby's Cox
October 14th, 2009
2:40 am
You folks that think that there is a trade market for Kelly Johnson, please give me a scenario where that would happen
Actually Wayne, the Braves are quite good at getting a team to bite on a player that is about to be released. In 2007, they traded Tony Pena Jr. (out of options) to the Royals for Eric Cordier who was a pretty decent prospect at the time. Last year they traded Josh Anderson (also out of options) to Detroit for Rudy Darrow. In both instances, those 2 players would have been release by Atlanta anyway, and I don’t know how we were able pull off getting something for those 2 guys.
In the case of Pena Jr. and Anderson, both were prospects traded for prospects. In the case with Kelly Johnson, they would likely net more than fringe prospects because Kelly is actually better than some 2nd basemen in baseball. If there are some GM’s that think so highly of him as some of these damn bloggers, we could get a pretty nice piece in return. I’m hoping for a nice reliever (i think it’s underrated how much we need bullpen help). The Braves actually have leverage in KJ, because if teams think the Braves are gonna non-tender him and not offer the Braves much in return because of that, the Braves could be like, “fine, we’ll just let him go to arb, let him get his $4 mill, then trade him later.” He’s still very tradeable IMO…
Teams that could use KJ:
Chi Cubs
LA Dodgers (O. Hudson will be a FA)
Pirates
Cards
Twins
Nats
D-Backs
Astros
Indians
Padres
Bay Area Steve
October 14th, 2009
2:52 am
nolie, Castle is solid, DVR-worthy even.
Run Heap, don’t think I missed that Bravey. I’m all over it.
Yo, uga, I ain’t sellin’ brother. I was gonna, but then you called him Bravey again, so I figgered I’d stick with my long-term plan.
DALE MURPHY FAN #1
October 14th, 2009
3:13 am
I like kelly johnson. He is a good guy. He plays hard. And tries his best. If I was a baseball player for the braves, it would be Kelly johnson. Because I am a good guy and try hard at my job. When Kelly got put on the bench, did kelly complain? Heck no, he did not. He is not like these loudmouth black players who like rap music and go on and on about theirself and cause trubble for a great man like Bobby Cox, who is like a grandfather to Kelly johnson. Dont misunderstand me. I am not a racist. I beleive all peeple are equal. But immigration has gone wild! whew! Glen beck can tell you that! I mean, i like some of thes guys but most of them have bad atttitudes and are disrespecful to a great man like Bobby Cox. They shuld have traded that short stop. He acts like a hot dog. He not a true Brave player. Like dale Murphy was. I am not racist though. I just dont like some of them. Does that make me rasist? no! Kelly Johnson shuld start at second base next year. He i s a True Braves player. He is the type of player I feel is like me. A good guy. Not a hot head like some of those other types. yeah for Kelly Johnson. Maybe we can trade martin prado. He is okay but I think he will be bad next year and disapoint Bobby Cox.
diehard brave
October 14th, 2009
3:23 am
dale murphy fan #1…you´re an idiot
Quisp
October 14th, 2009
3:59 am
We’ve all been raised on television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And we’re very, very pissed off.
Bay Area Steve
October 14th, 2009
4:33 am
Dale Murphy Fan has to be an imposter, right?
Roman Gal tryin’ to instigate? N8 tryin’ a Minnesota shuffle? ‘Cause, if not….
Anyways, F’ everybody, F’ y’all if you doubt me.
OK, I know that doesn’t apply, but I’ve been waitin’ to use it for years, and, when in Rome…
Bay Area Steve
October 14th, 2009
4:40 am
Oh, and for those that don’t know…
bubdylan made an appearance tonight. Dude is as funny as it gets. Only issue I can see, is that he ditches us for weeks at a time. Bub, you are here for my entertainment; whatever else you got goin’ on is secondary. You are required to make me laugh, daily, responsibilities be damned.
Dale Murphy#1 Fan
October 14th, 2009
4:48 am
I am not a imposter. I am the #1 fan of Dale Murphy. May be sombody else think’s they are #1 and not me? Well, beleeve me you are wrong buddy. Ha Ha! I laff at you! nobody is a bagger fan of DALe Mruphy than me. He is from Utah and beleevs in Jesus. The best peeple beleev in Jesus. And the best peeple are from Utah. I am from Utah. I am a good guy. Like Kelly Johnson. If i saw Kelly Johnson tomorrow, I wuld shake hi’s hand and say “Hello Kelly, I am DAle murph’ys #1 fan but its’ cool! I like you too!” sinseerly, Dale Murphy Fan #1! (Not #2!)
Bay Area Steve
October 14th, 2009
4:52 am
And, why can’t I think of a good weejun joke? I know there’s somethin’ there, but damn…
And, I’ll take 2-1 against: First team to get Kelly Johnson away from the middle IF gets themselves a ball player. And, why is he so stiff at 2B? And, why am I criticizing an IF, when the only way I could play the game was behind the dish, with four layers of protection? And, why do I start every sentence with and? And, why does RHR hate KJ so much? And, where am I in the KJ fan club? And, if KJ wears weejuns and khakis, does this make him mini-scoots? And, though Braveheart resents wearing khakis and weejuns, is he still able to perform? Yet, when KJ puts on a 2B glove, he turns into, well, Diory Hernandez. And, why did I post this? Why do I think I’m funny? bubd, show me the way, please, sir.
Disclaimer: this KJ post may, or may not, make me a racist. Either way, F’ you.
Bay Area Steve
October 14th, 2009
4:57 am
OK, with all the beleevs:
I’m callin’ it: that dude is journalist jimmy smith.
I know I’m right.
Though, on the real chance that I’m wrong, yet again, please don’t tell me. I’m sayin’ we win two ways. First, nobody that posts here is that ignorant, even Tomahawkin’, and second jjs is back. So, allow me my delusions, and welcome back jjs.
Dale Murphy#1 Fan
October 14th, 2009
5:04 am
Ha ha ha! ROFTLAmO!!!!! You crack me up, Bay Area Steve! Are you from San FRansicso? Boy there shur are a lot of weirdos there! Ha ha! You are’nt 1 of those weirdos are you? Glen beck hate weirdos and Boy so do I! Ha ha! And I agree. Kelly johsnon is great! He is a good guy! He dos’nt give me the hibbyjibbys like these weirdo playres from other countrys! BRA! Your name is Martin so why do you pronownce it so weird? Who can figure? Give me a guy like Kelly any day! He is a good guy. He works hard at his job like I do at my job. I feel like we are a lot a like! I like him! Go Brave’s!
DAle Murphy #1 FAn
October 14th, 2009
5:13 am
Ok fella’s, it has been a lot of fun talking to you. It has been WOO! some good times! But my uncle wayne says it is time for me to go to bed. Grate to bend you ear! But hey do’nt get my dandruff up or I will rilly give you a peice of my mind! Ha ha! Later, Bra!
Random
October 14th, 2009
5:14 am
RHR (October 13th, 2009 11:59 pm): “I love Huddy and all but he’s started like what? 5 times since coming back from surgery? Maybe 2 of those being solid starts and maybe 3 of those being a little shakey suddenly equals “he recovered his stuff so quickly”???”
Seven starts.
Four quality starts — 7 IP/1 ER, 7 IP/3 ER, 6 IP/2 ER, 7 IP/1 ER
Two “shakey” strts — each 5 IP/4 ER
One in-between — 5.1 IP/2 ER
RHR (October 14th, 2009 12:20 am): ” ‘RHR — Coach?’
“Wait…what? I’m on pain medication for a toothache, but I’m pretty sure the answer to that is … NO. ?”
Yer bag, dummy.
CB
October 14th, 2009
6:47 am
We live in a society where we are judged instantly by raving lunatics,TMZ culture idiots who couldn’t tell you what the Constitution is if you gave them a clue. A 90 year old man retired this week with little fanfare because most of his peers have either passed or they are in nursing homes hanging on to what is left. Furman Bisher took a lot of abuse in his latter years from these idiots because they did not know his greatness and that is their loss. Mr. Bisher,thank you for all the enjoyable stories I read over the years and enjoy your retirement.
RHR
October 14th, 2009
7:37 am
BTW how was the Dan Brown book?
Not great. I can’t get into it at all.
got kinda emotional about Furman’s departure till I ran up on his opinion of Wren.
You must have missed his opinion on Jeffy. You would’ve jumped ship long ago. lol I respect the man but found myself on the far side of his opinions on the Braves in the last few years.
He’s not some pre-Madonna
lmao i nearly choked on my drink.
Yer bag, dummy.
Oh no, sorry Hannibal, but it wasn’t Coach. I can’t believe you got it wrong really. Its a Chloe brown leather satchel if you’d like to make a note in your notebook.
Wayne in Utah
October 14th, 2009
9:10 am
Bobby’s Cox
Huge difference between a 3 million dollar guy (KJ) and a couple of minimum salary guys (Pena Jr and Anderson). Heck, I could trade the latter two!
I stand behind my statement.
Wayne in Utah
October 14th, 2009
9:12 am
CB
I had suspected all along that Mr. Bisher was a legend for many on the blog. I think it unfortunate that all I was able to read was the ramblings of an old man in the past couple of years.
AndyC
October 14th, 2009
9:19 am
Anybody watching the new ESPN series “30 on 30″? It’s a documentary series made by 30 different filmmakers that are all sports related. There have been two so far and both have been excellent. The first was about Gretzky being traded from Edmonton. I’m no hockey fan but I still found it very compelling stuff. The second came on last night and was about the Colts leaving Baltimore and the Colts Marching Band that stayed together for 12 years until the Ravens came to town. Good stuff. This one was directed by Barry Levinson.
Lew
October 14th, 2009
9:23 am
Random-You’ve come out advocating for the Braves retaining Kawakami and now you seem to believe (if I’m reading you correctly) that we should re-sign Hudson, or at least pick up his option. Since we have so much pitching and it appears pretty obvious someone must be traded (or option not picked up) to free the salary for a quality power hitter, who would you trade? Since Vazquez seems to be the obvious choice (unless we can pawn Lowe off somewhere to jettison salary), do you seriously believe that Hudson will perform as well as Vazquez in 2010?
Personally, I’m doubting that, but I’m interested in your take on the situation.
RC
October 14th, 2009
9:28 am
I saw this on a recap on Heyward’s first AFL game….is there anything he can’t do?
“Jason Heyward doubles (2) on a ground ball to second baseman Brian Friday”
Random
October 14th, 2009
9:29 am
Oh no, sorry Hannibal, but it wasn’t Coach. I can’t believe you got it wrong really. Its a Chloe brown leather satchel if you’d like to make a note in your notebook.
Mid Town Joe
October 14th, 2009
9:52 am
I’m corn-fused. I thought the consensus in here was not offer Huddy his option for next year. Is Huddy beating the Braves to the punch?
Jonas
October 14th, 2009
10:10 am
DOB..Anyone….The Braves has three day meeting starting yesterday in Orlando…If any News going to come out this meeting?…Or Just a strategy meeting?….If any reporter are cover this meeting?…
Random
October 14th, 2009
10:10 am
Lew (October 14th, 2009 9:23 am): “You’ve come out advocating for the Braves retaining Kawakami . . . “
Not advocating, merely predicting. I really don’t know if I think it’s a good plan or not. Too many variables and too many unknowns — we may never be able to accurately judge, even in hindsight.
” . . . and now you seem to believe (if I’m reading you correctly) that we should re-sign Hudson, or at least pick up his option.”
Refresh my memory — just what did I say about Hudson? When? What for? (JK on that last.)
“Since we have so much pitching and it appears pretty obvious someone must be traded (or option not picked up) to free the salary for a quality power hitter, who would you trade? Since Vazquez seems to be the obvious choice (unless we can pawn Lowe off somewhere to jettison salary), do you seriously believe that Hudson will perform as well as Vazquez in 2010?
“Personally, I’m doubting that, but I’m interested in your take on the situation.”
Well, my most recent thinking and comments were based on the hunch that the Braves would first (even as we speak) try to negotiate an extension with Vazquez. Even before making a decision on or negotiating with Hudson.
Couple reasons why — Vazquez would probably outperform Hudson next year (and perhaps beyond — so, yes, I agree with you there), so they try to nail him down first. And also, if they couldn’t negotiate an extension with Vazquez, they’d mark him to be traded later, and negotiate a Hudson extension with a greater sense of urgency.
So, if they extended both Vazquez and Hudson, Lowe would have been the SP to be traded. I think Wren could have done it. (Still could, I guess.)
But now that we “know” Hudson is gone, and it no longer seems to be the case that “we have so much pitching”, it looks to me like the Braves’ve gotta keep both Vazquez (whether extended or not) and Lowe, and use the Hudson money to get a FA bat. (Or if they can, they trade Lowe, with Medlen in their back pocket as the 5th SP next year.)
In other words, I don’t know.
Lew
October 14th, 2009
10:12 am
MidTownJoe-It would suit me just fine to see Hudson decline the option and go the Free Agent route. Likely, even if he were to sign a several year extension with the Braves, he would make much less than he could get on the open market.
The Braves reallydon’t need him. They have fivve other starters under contract (plus Medlen) and several young guys likely ready in the next couple of years. The Braves already have Jurrjens and Hanson for the next 4-6 years and I would be willing to bet that they could get a several year deal at good money from Vazquez, as well-not to mention that with any kind of run support, Javy would have won 20 this year and you flat out don’t trade 20 game winners.
Tim was a good pitcher for the Braves-good, but not great. He IS surgically repaired and though he came back early and looked beter than he should for only a year out of TJ, there is still possibility of complications like torn scar tissue that could push his progress back. Now maybe he returns to full form-maybe not, but Vazquez has never been injured and on the DL. He is a more sure bet.
We need those Hudson $$$$$ to get a bat. Trading Hanson or Jurjens would be insanity personified. Lowe is probably untradeable. Would trading Kawakami bring enough in return even? The money you save from his salry certainly would be inadequate for the aorementioned hitter. That leaves Tim as odd man out.
Hey, Dude didn’t cost us anything to acquire. He pitched pretty well for the Braves under some bad team circumstances. He contributes monumentally to his community. But it’s a business. It will be easier if he opts to leave-saves the Braves a painful situation. But he IS the best option for an exit from Atlanta. Sucks that he is, but,,,,,,,Hope he signs a good deal on the FA market.
Lew
October 14th, 2009
10:15 am
Random-Your 5:14 AM post from this morning. I read it as advocating for Hudson’s signing-but like I said, maybe I read it wrong or read way more into it than you had intended. Anyway-no condemnation, I really was interested in your take on the situation.
David O'Brien
October 14th, 2009
10:15 am
AndyC: Levinson is so good, particularly when directing stuff with Baltimore at the center. His Baltimore-based movies are terrific, particularly Diner, one of my all-time favorites. Avalon, Tin Men and Liberty Heights were all good to great, too.
By the way, best documentary I’ve seen on ESPN lately was that mini-doc they did on noodling (fishing with your hands). That thing was fascinating.
RHR
October 14th, 2009
10:19 am
Countdown to an appearance from Anders…
RHR
October 14th, 2009
10:21 am
By the way, I almost changed my name to “pre-madonna” but then I decided its hard enough being thought of as a dude around here, my ego certainly couldn’t take being thought of as older than madonna.
Daslied
October 14th, 2009
10:26 am
Did you guys read the Joe Jackson story (from 1949) by Furman Bisher? It’s essentially Joe telling his story, and it’s fascinating. It’s such a sad story, but JJ’s perspective is just amazing.
Link:
http://www.blackbetsy.com/jjtruth.htm
Hillbilly
October 14th, 2009
10:45 am
DOB, You want to see fascinating? Check out Girls Gone Grabbin’ on YouTube. No, it’s not anything nasty. It’s a group of young ladies and their catfish noodling (or “hogging” as they call it here) adventures. I consider myself an avid outdoorsman, but there’s no way in hell I’m running my bare hand under rocks and logs trying to catch a catfish half my body size. And these aren’t big manly, Amazon women. They’re smaller than me.
On another fascinating subject, Sons Of Anarchy was jaw-dropping lastnight. Didn’t see this coming for SAMCRO. I really like Adam Arkin’s role. He plays an excellent villan, and he’s wreaking havoc on the club. Can’t wait to see how this all transpires.
Random
October 14th, 2009
10:50 am
Lew (October 14th, 2009 10:15 am): “Your 5:14 AM post from this morning. I read it as advocating for Hudson’s signing”
Oh, I see.
No — just giving some gentle correction to a misguided and benighted miss.
Or mister.
David O'Brien
October 14th, 2009
10:55 am
Just talked to Tim Hudson. I’m going to write a story now, but gist of it was this:
He said he was surprised to see the story and how it portrayed him, said it was a misunderstanding, that he’d talked to someone (wouldn’t say who) that his agent told him he should probably talk to, and that all Hudson told the person was that if the sides started talking and were far apart, and if Braves idea of a hometown discount was significantly different than his own, that he’d have to go to free agency.
But he reiterated what he’s told me, Bowman and others in the past two months: That he’d not changed his stance, that this is where he wants to be and he hopes they can work something out, and that they hadn’t begun discussions yet but that wasn’t surprising, because he understood the Braves had meetings and other things they had to do first and that they’d need to make room for him, etc.
His main point was that this is where he wants to be, that he’s not looking for “A.J. Burnett money,” that he’ll take a hometown discount, but that he hopes they work out an extension rather than the option. He said the option isn’t even something he’s considered or talked to his wife about, because he didn’t think that’s the route Braves would go. He doesn’t want to do that, it’s clear.
While he didn’t get into specifics or give me a figure, I think I can safely say this: If they offered Hudson three years, $30 mill, he’d take it without testing free agency. I don’t think Braves want to go that high, though, so then we’re probably getting into that difference in the sides’ ideas of a hometown discount. Would three years and, say, $25 mill get it done? That I don’t know. Maybe three and $27 does.
We’ll just have to wait and see.
Anyway, I’m gonna write something. I’ll post it here when I’m done.
David O'Brien
October 14th, 2009
10:58 am
Hillbilly: SOA was at its absolute best last night. Terrific show. This season’s even better than last.
Random
October 14th, 2009
10:59 am
Lew (October 14th, 2009 10:15 am): “maybe I read it wrong or read way more into it than you had intended. Anyway-no condemnation, I really was interested in your take on the situation.”
NB.
Turns out we’re pretty much of one mind on the matter — my 10:10 foreshadows your 10:12, except that I guess I already count Hudson as gone.
RC
October 14th, 2009
11:08 am
Thanks for the update DOB. While I know that his signing is still far from a sure thinkg, it’s nice to know that Hudson’s words were taken out of context in the article written by Rosenthal.
Danga
October 14th, 2009
11:21 am
How is James McMurtry live? Is that something I should see Thursday night in Athens?
flange 1
October 14th, 2009
11:25 am
Danga,
Yes go see McMurtry, he is great live.
DOB,
Thanks for the Hudson update. You called it yesterday with your warning to us! How are the folks in the Braves front office reacting to losing Roy Clark?
Random
October 14th, 2009
11:29 am
So it’s back on — Braves extend Vazquez if they can, trade him if they can’t, extend Hudson, trade Lowe or not depending on whether they keep Vazquez or not.
(Happy, J-MAN?)
Roman Gal
October 14th, 2009
11:33 am
The only team left in the baseball October bracket that I don’t have a track record of loathing is the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, California and the Pacific Time Zone, which will have their work cut out for them with Fort Knox, The Bronx. Greg in TN
Something we can agree on. I think I might just be rooting for them. If I had to give an order, it would be:
1. Angels
2. Dodgers
3. Phillies
4. Yankees
Then again, I could just not watch and pretend baseball season is already over…Oh wait, I’m already doing that.
RemoW
October 14th, 2009
11:38 am
DOB thanks for running Huddy to ground and talking to him.
Did anyone catch Mark Bradley’s comment in his blog at 9:11? Lowe won 15 his first season with the Braves, Hudson has won 15+ only once. On that note he has never posted a sub 3 era in all his time with the Braves. (No I am not running Huddy down, I like the guy and he seems to have heart.)
Roman Gal
October 14th, 2009
11:39 am
Roman Gal tryin’ to instigate? Bay Area Steve
Me? I’m not an instigator! I’m a peace-keeper. Just call me Peaceful Roman Gal.
Bobby's Belly
October 14th, 2009
12:01 pm
Do not sign Tim Hudson. May very well do well next few yrs. Hope he does. Mid-market team cannot spend that kind of money on luxury players – that’s what Huddy would be. Got a taker for D. Lowe? Dismiss sentence 1 and 4.
TnBrian
October 14th, 2009
12:01 pm
If Hudson wasn’t a good citizen & a great teammate then I’d think with Atlanta’s pitching depth they would just say farewell. $9m a year is an awful lot for a 34 year old coming off TJ surgery & really wasn’t overly impressive in his seven starts this year if you ask me. The teams already paying two number 4/5 starters $7.3m & $15m a year, so why go & pay another one $9m? Whatever, I just hope we get that one big hitter I think we need to make it next year.
RHR
October 14th, 2009
12:24 pm
You think 9M for a proven starter is “an awful lot”? I mean, I want the braves to free up some money too but 9M a year for a veteran 34 year old starter is dirt cheap. If thats all the Braves plan to offer him then he’ll likely walk, and he should. What did you think he was making 15.5 million?
DAP
October 14th, 2009
12:25 pm
lewWould trading Kawakami bring enough in return even? The money you save from his salary certainly would be inadequate for the aorementioned hitter.
add the relief from KK’s salary to the relief from huddy’s if we extend him at a lesser salary, and, and you may have enough to equal releasing hudson. i think any assumption that we keep hudson should come with the assumption that huddy costs about $6mil less than last year.
OKGA
October 14th, 2009
12:25 pm
I think 3 yrs/$27 mil gets it done. But I’m glad to know that Hudson’s still take a “hometown discount” & that the 2 sides are still talking. He probably just doesn’t want to be taken advantage of since everyone knows how fond he & his wife is of the Atlanta area.
I know it’s been said plenty of times before but entering ST with 6 solid starters is not a problem. I think Wren is going to have to be creative with finding a power bat, so we’ll just have to wait & see. I will, however, be ignoring any of that Rosenthal crap.
DAM
October 14th, 2009
12:28 pm
Just an idea, and I’m sure it’s been mentioned on here before–would Lowe be open to returning to the closer’s role? I actually don’t like that idea at all, but it would provide one solution to the pitching surplus if Hudson re-signs and we don’t trade anyone.
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
12:29 pm
If Hudson is going to decline his option as reported by Bradley today then the Braves have to be ecstatic. First that saves the Braves a million bucks, second, they now have 12 million to “play” with for other needs. Like signing LaRoche.
Haven’t been bantering back and forth lately with the blog but seems to me that cures the pitching dilemma. As I posted many times the Braves have too much money tied up in their back-end of the rotation(Lowe-15mil and KK about 7+). It is obvious Hudson would also be at the back-end of the Braves rotation and putting him there at anything more than 7 million a year without trading Lowe just simply makes no sense. Why put KK out of the rotation when he has done just fine at the same or less money?
It had been reported during the summer that the Angels and Rockies had a lot of interest in Hudson during his rehab stints and perhaps Hudson’s agent has received significant feelers from those teams and others.
I wouldn’t offer Hudson any more than KK is making, if that, and I doubt Hudson would settle for about 20 million over 3 years. If I were Wren I would just let him walk unless a trade is imminent for Lowe. I think we all know the answer to that one.
pryguy
October 14th, 2009
12:30 pm
Good work DOB…Also good to hear, hope the Braves give him what he wants in this “discount”, Huddy deserves it imo. He means alot to this team just from what I’ve heard you say throughout the season about him.
ncscoots
October 14th, 2009
12:31 pm
On that note [Hudson] has never posted a sub 3 era in all his time with the Braves.
Oh, you mean unlike blog favorite Vazquez who has posted sub-3 ERAs so many times in his career, LOL? Like once? to go along with the 8 years he was 3.90+?
Keerist, I’ve come to hate this conversation more than root canal, but the sheer lunacy that drives some of the Hudson kiss-off posts is hard to let just lie there, sometimes. There are plenty of good reasons that the Braves and Hudson might part ways; you just don’t see them in many of the posts here on the subject.
Fifth starter…Holy Mother of Cornelia.
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
12:34 pm
Dam…..the chances of the Braves putting Lowe’s 15 mil into the pen and signing Hudson are probably right at 0%.
David O'Brien
October 14th, 2009
12:38 pm
Danga, McMurtry is not to be missed live. One of my favorite acts, period, but also one of my favorite live performers. He gives it his all, every night, and he and his band rock a lot harder than people might expect. Get down close to the stage and check him out. Intensity personified….
Jake W.: OK, you passed the test.
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
12:38 pm
Hudson, Lowe,& KK. One of those will be gone – bet on it.
pryguy
October 14th, 2009
12:40 pm
Rock on…
What are the odds and where can I place such a bet?
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
12:41 pm
Is McMurtry playing in Atlanta this weekend?
DAM
October 14th, 2009
12:44 pm
Oh, I agree. It’s just one solution that one of my friends was talking to me about a couple days ago.
Best-case scenario, we trade Lowe, imo.
RHR
October 14th, 2009
12:45 pm
A 15 million dollar closer? DAM is right!
The worldwide leader is sticking with Rosenthal’s version, they just updated their story and I thought it would be to include the quotes DOB got but no, just the same thing with an added note “this will break up a solid rotation”.
If Hudson is going to decline his option as reported by Bradley today
That wasn’t exactly reported by Bradley, just Bradley commenting on what Rosenthal reported. Which Huddy kinda shot down, as DOB reported. Gotta love reporting.
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
12:46 pm
pryguy….LOL, wish I knew but the odds would probably be even money or even 1-2.
See no way the Braves would tie up 1/3 of their payroll with the back-end of the rotation or consider carrying all three when Medlen is right there as well. Just won’t happen in my opinion.
pryguy
October 14th, 2009
12:48 pm
Gimme Lowe and Hudson for a dime. Then lemme parlay a Kawakami trade and a resigning of LaRoche for another dime.
Jake W.
October 14th, 2009
12:57 pm
Better late than never DOB
Nice to hear straight from Huddy and what he has to say. I know a certain Mets fan looking for starting pitching probably got a little excited when the Hudson story broke but glad that it has been clarified.
Danga
October 14th, 2009
1:00 pm
Rock on……McMurtry is playing in Athens at the 40 watt on the 22nd.
Roman Gal
October 14th, 2009
1:02 pm
Gotta love reporting.
And this is why I don’t usually believe things until I see DOB has reported it.
Roman Gal
October 14th, 2009
1:02 pm
…unless it has to do with a certain Seatle (formerly Cincinatti, almost Braves) player or that White Sox (formerly Padres, almost Braves/Cubs/any other team) picher. Kidding.
Andre "Pulpwood" Smith
October 14th, 2009
1:04 pm
I shall continue my quixotic quest to convince Springsteen and the ESB to cover McMurtry’s “Can’t Make It Here Anymore.”
AndyC
October 14th, 2009
1:08 pm
I think 3 years and $27M gets Huddy signed. I don’t think he would take less than that. He is coming off surgery and even though he pitched relatively well in his handful of starts this past season, his value in the free agent market has been diminished somewhat.
cabravesfan
October 14th, 2009
1:09 pm
RG-
I was going to make a comment about your spelling but I thought better of it
DAP
October 14th, 2009
1:13 pm
thanks for the update, DOB…whats so cool about this blog is that there are so many people out there who arent lucky enough to have found this blog, and they dont know whats really going on. but we do. thats why this has been my #1 source for braves info for almost 5 years.
AndyC
October 14th, 2009
1:13 pm
I chalked the earlier Hudson story up to posturing by Hudson’s agent. Good to hear Hudson set the story straight. I’m torn on whether the Braves need to resign him. If the outcome is Hudson signs and Javy gets traded, I don’t think I will be too happy about that unless we get a big time slugger in exchange. If the outcome is Hudson signs and Lowe is traded, that would be terrific.
MFin04
October 14th, 2009
1:24 pm
We gave 4 years 60 million for Lowe (I realize we had to and were desperate)
But we shouldn’t even have to think about 3 years 25-30 million for Hudson. Max 10 million a year for a guy that is easily a number 2 pitcher?
Do that deal yesterday.
DAM
October 14th, 2009
1:29 pm
MFin04–
I agree with you 100%. Some people are referring to Hudson as a 4/5 starter. While he may be the 4/5 in our particular rotation, I’m sure there are many teams out there who would gladly take Hudson at 10mil/yr and slot him as their #2. We just happen to be blessed with Vazquez/Jurrjens/Hanson as well, but that in no way makes Hudson a #4 quality starter.
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
1:33 pm
AndyC….can’t see Wren extending Hudson at 27 million. Sure Hudson would bite on that but will he bite on 21 million? He has no contract right now and frankly we don’t need him. Hudson is not in exactly a strong negotiating position.
Again a solid guy that has a great charity in the community but I feel he will have to sign at what the Braves view as a “hometown” discount and it is very doubtful Wren is viewing that as 27 million. Especially after what we have seen from Wren with Smoltz and Glavine.
If the Braves payroll suddenly gets to over 100 million and/or Lowe is traded then yeah maybe Wren goes higher. I don’t see that happening.
Roman Gal
October 14th, 2009
1:35 pm
I was going to make a comment about your spelling but I thought better of it cab
Probably smart of you. But the funny thing is that one of the only words that I really have a really bad southern drawl with is the word “pitcher.” And it’s bad…
Danga
October 14th, 2009
1:38 pm
I think the situation here with Hudson is different than it was with Smoltz or Hudson. Hudson at 9 mil per sounds like a steal to me. I think if Hudson makes it to FA, then teams like the Mets, Dodgers, Brewers, and so on would be all over him.
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
1:38 pm
Hudson a #2 pitcher? I don’t care what he is on another team but he is certainly NOT a #2 pitcher on this team thus should not be accorded #2 money on this team. We already have Lowe pitching in the #4 slot making 15 million. If Hudson can command 10 million a year as a FA then he should sign somewhere that he can be a #2 starter. It won’t be in Atlanta.
Danga
October 14th, 2009
1:38 pm
*or Glavine that should read.
beekay
October 14th, 2009
1:39 pm
When people say that 6.7 million for KK as aback end starter is too much, I say that is crazy. Who care if he is #4 or #5, the guy pitched very well in most of his starts and didn’t complain when they put him in the pen for Huddy’s sake. I think 6.7 million is spot on or even a slight bargain for his performance
Danga
October 14th, 2009
1:43 pm
Hudson could definitely be the 2nd best pitcher on this team next year.
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
1:43 pm
We were in a desparate situation when we signed Lowe and I think Lowe will be fine next year. We are not in a desparate situation right now by any stretch of the imagination. I think if Hudson wants to be in Atlanta it will be a lot closer to Wren’s discount idea as opposed to Hudson’s.
cabravesfan
October 14th, 2009
1:44 pm
RG-
and apparently the second “T” in Seattle wandered off to Cincinnati
N8
October 14th, 2009
1:44 pm
“On that note [Hudson] has never posted a sub 3 era in all his time with the Braves.” (not sure of author of this initially – copied and pasted from scoots’ post)
Let’s be clear here. Before Hudson’s season ending injury, Hudson had a sub 3 ERA as late as June 22nd. He then maintained an ERA around 3.00 for most of July. He got lit up a bit by Washington in his 2nd to last start. But what did he do in his last start, before determining that the pain was too much to pitch through? He pitched 6 shutout innings. That was on July 23rd.
On July 30th this yeary, Vazquez had an ERA of 3.01. After his start on September 2nd, his ERA sat at 3.18.
Tim Hudson in 2008 was on his way to the type of season that Vazequez had this year, without the strikeouts.
So save me the “Tim Hudson never had a sub-3 ERA bullsh!t”.
If, as a fan you want to retain Vazquez and let Hudson walk, because you think it strengthens the team. Fine. But if you think it’s because Vazquez is the better pitcher, you’re wrong.
Their strikeout totals might be way off of each other’s next year, but mark it down. At the end of 2009 (wherever each of them are pitching), there will not be more than a half a run seperating their ERA.
If Wren can get Hudson to sign a 3 year hometown discount deal for at or less than 10 million per year, and can get great value for Vazquez? Do it.
Perfect world, has Wren trading Lowe in more of a salary dump and then signs both Vazquez and Hudson to 3 year deals to ensure that with those two, JJJ and Hanson our rotation is solid (and not overpaid) for the next 3+ years.
I don’t have a problem with Lowe. In fact I wanted him all along last winter. But in hindsight, he’s severely overpaid for what he will provide the next 3 years, and with where our budget is at. So he should be the one to go, but we won’t get much in return. Where if the “return” is what Wren is looking for, Vazquez should go. He’d bring the most.
But return is a matter of opinion, imo. By dumping Lowe and re-signing Hudson at a lower rate than 12 million, the “return” could be what Wren can afford to aquire with the extra 5-6 million (assuming Hudson would sign for 9-10 million per year). With Vazquez the return would be immediate in terms of a player traded for.
My guess is that Hudson doesn’t want to just go with the option, because it would leave the opening there for Wren to trade him (Tim’s not a 10/5 player). I think Tim just wants security, and to be in control of where he’s going to be.
In the end, provided that Wren gets us a big RH bat, and we still have Hanson, JJJ and 3 of KK, Lowe, Vazquez or Hudson in our rotation, and he has finacial flexibility to address the bench and bullpen (along with 1B in the event that the big RH bat isn’t a 1B), I’m cool with whatever he chooses to do.
JJJ and Hanson are the future of this rotation, they are just fine as #1 and #2 starters, and if Vazquez is on board, then we’ve got 3 guys that are legitimate #2 or better starters. Add in that Hudson, KK or Lowe are all as good if not better than anybody else’s #4 and #5 guys out there.
Whatever combination Wren chooses to go with next year, our rotation should be one of the NL’s best (if not all of MLB’s). Let’s fix that lineup and try not to block Heyward and Freeman in the process.
N8
October 14th, 2009
1:46 pm
Meant 2010, not 2009 in my last post.
Rock On......
October 14th, 2009
1:47 pm
beekay…totally agree with your 1:39. Another reason we don’t need Hudson. It’s actually OK to have 5 guys in the rotation that think they are a #1 or #2 type pitcher as long as they don’t all expect to be paid as such at the same time.
flange 1
October 14th, 2009
1:48 pm
It looks like Rudy Jaramillo is not returning to Texas.
Sure would love for the Braves to add him to their coaching staff even if he is the “Director of Hitting” that works with all players ML to low A ball and all hitting coaches…
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=4558743
Nova Scotia Steve
October 14th, 2009
1:50 pm
This is going to be one hell of an interesting off-season…I’ll tell you that much
abwright
October 14th, 2009
1:52 pm
Since this seems to keep coming up …
I hope the Braves sign Hudson to a multi year deal and extend Vazquez. Then, they have the chip necessary to trade for a quality RH OF bat.
Or not … they would have a solid rotation (six deep) for the next 2-3 years.
If the Braves let Hudson walk, they do not really have a great bargaining chip, since they would have to trade one of their five starting pitchers for the bat or sign a bat on the free agent market.
Either way, they should be able to make it work. However, the Braves hand seems to be stronger with six quality pitchers under contract rather than five plus a little salary room.
If you have three proven guys under reasonable contract for a few years, then the Braves can field offers and take the best fit for the team. Based on their needs, some teams would prefer Lowe, Hudson, or Vazquez. If the Braves “only” have Lowe for three and Vazquez for one, that limits the flexibility for trading.
I can imagine a large number of teams (29 of them) who would love to get any one of those three pitchers at their likely contracts. In that scenario, proven quality starter with three year contract for proven quality hitter with 2-3 years on his contract seems to be very likely.
P-Town Brave
October 14th, 2009
1:57 pm
Flange-
I have an idea….BYE BYE TP!
Just think of how many players the team could get that would want to sign w/ the Braves if they got Rudy…thats a friggin marketing dream for Frank Wren right there.
That being said, 3/27 is too high for Hudson because the team still needs a 1b and OF, both with significant power!
AND more than likely someone to close games.
How do they get all of this done, because the proof was there this season. Focus on only one aspect and the team will most certainly fall short of the postseason.
N8
October 14th, 2009
1:59 pm
Here’s the main question at hand if Wren can “dump” Lowe without eating too much (or any) of his salary.
Is the team better off wth Hudson (at around 10 million per over the next 3 years), and 5 million of flexibility to sign or trade for a bat?
Or with Paying Lowe 15 million dollars and then being required to trade KK, Vazquez to get that bat, since salarly to be dumped somewhere?
I realize that a Hudson setback is possible. But all injury concerns out of the way, I think Hudson provides what Lowe will provide next year, and there’s a chance he’s willing to do it for 5+ million less (if what DOB guesses is true).
If Wren can find a taker for Lowe and Hudson is willing to sign for around 10 million per, Wren is an idiot to not “trade” Hudson for Lowe and save the 5 million. Wouldn’t be doing his job, imo.
The question shouldn’t be who would we rather have between Hudson or Vazquez. I think there is room for both. The question should be will Wren choose to let Hudson walk, or move Lowe to make room for him?
I’d go with Hudson, just for the 5 million. A team with around a 100 million dollar payroll values that 5 million more than say the Yanks or Sox. It might be the difference in having Mike Gonzalez or NOT.
If it’s up to me, (and I’m not going to begin to speculate on possible free agents or trade partners for the RH bat we need), my rotation going into next year is: Vazquez (for blog “peace” I’ll call him the #1 LOL), Hanson, JJJ, Hudson and KK. With Minor on the fast track, without going all Joey Devine on him.
Let’s not forget about Minor. He’s the same age Hanson was going into the AFL last year. Obviously not as much minor league experience, but he’s a 3 year college guy. It’s not out of line to think that if he has a dominant AFL season and a great spring training, he might be up next year at some point. I don’t think they’ll rush him. But it’s not like he’s a 18 year old phenom. And he’s left handed.
Wren has a lot to think about, and most of the options are good ones for the Braves in 2010 and beyond.
DAM
October 14th, 2009
2:02 pm
I believe if you can sign Hudson at 9mil/yr, you do it without blinking. You have the contract ready for him to sign and shove it at him as soon as he says ok.