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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,403 comments Add your comment
RC
October 8th, 2009
2:44 pm
Il Cattivo,
I think you are right that they won’t let it reach the free agency stage, but I’m not sure that has anything to do with Smoltz. I think they would try to get it done even if the Smoltz situation had never happened.
P. W. Hjort,
I honestly didn’t realize that much of KJ’s value came after he returned from his rehab stint. I honestly am not sure what the Braves should do with him, as the number seem to indicate keeping him, but I’m just not sure if they feel they can afford it.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
2:45 pm
“I think Cox was blowing smoke ”
Wrong. It takes INTELLIGENCE to “blow smoke”. Cox was hee-hawing, and/or parroting what someone higher up told him.
RHR
October 8th, 2009
2:46 pm
Except when it comes to KJ….
Heh. Good one.
Lunatic Fringe
October 8th, 2009
2:46 pm
P. W. Hjort ,
“IF” Kelly could play some corner outfield he could have some value, but that has yet to happen, and I doubt his WAR would be + there either. To be a bench player with value you need to have some versatility, which at the moment, Kelly does not have. I would like to see him get the opportunity to develop it though, i.e get some time in the OF or possibly 3rd?, but where is he going to develope that? Winter Ball, AAA?
jeffrey d
October 8th, 2009
2:47 pm
Wren knows what he’s doing….I doubt he’ll trade JJ. Even if he does, I’m sure he won’t do it unless he gets a ransom for him.
jeffrey d
October 8th, 2009
2:49 pm
Cox was hee-hawing Robert
That’s pretty clever. Did you just think of that? If so, you should repeat it tirelessly while assuming it’s still hilarious.
DAP
October 8th, 2009
2:49 pm
RHR, i wouldnt worry about it. i dont think wren does it, because i cant see any realistic situation where jurjjens is traded and it makes the braves better. aint hapnin.
jeffrey d
October 8th, 2009
2:51 pm
Although I wouldn’t be completely upset if it was something like Volquez for Hamilton.
Jeff R
October 8th, 2009
2:51 pm
RHR… I can’t see Wren pulling the trigger on a deal for Jurrjens. Whatever some experts say, management considers Hanson and Jurrjens to be the young anchors of an older staff (Vazquez, Hudson, Lowe and Kawakami are in their mid thirties or older). The latter don’t nearly have the upsides of Jurrjens and Hanson.
I’d imagine that over the next couple of seasons, Wren will look to rebuild the pitching staff around those two. Minor is on the way, and so is Tehran. I’m sure Wren would like either or both those pitchers to join the rotation in ‘11 or ‘12.
P. W. Hjort
October 8th, 2009
2:53 pm
Lunatic Fringe –
“IF” Kelly could play some corner outfield he could have some value, but that has yet to happen
Yet to happen, huh?
and I doubt his WAR would be + there either.
Thomas, you disappoint me.
To be a bench player with value you need to have some versatility, which at the moment, Kelly does not have
But Prado does. And there’s nothing wrong with Prado moving to 1st or 3rd (where he has excellent defensive value) for a game or two for KJ to get in there if needed. He doesn’t have to have versatility. It helps, but it’s not completely necessary. And like I said, he can play a little corner OF. He played mostly SS in the minors (364 games) with a little 3B (15 games) and even less 2B (11 games).
Lunatic Fringe
October 8th, 2009
2:53 pm
Rockies up 1 already!
flange 1
October 8th, 2009
2:55 pm
PWH,
I like the argument that you are presenting to keep KJ, but do really believe the Braves front office is thinking that way?
RHR
October 8th, 2009
2:55 pm
Hey DOB can you do a “Who is the biggest Kelly lover?” poll on your next blog? I can’t decide.
Random
October 8th, 2009
2:59 pm
P. W. Hjort —
Good one from you at October 8th, 2009 1:53 pm.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
2:59 pm
“So you would take Chipper over Jeter?”
NO NO, and NO agaian, this time in capital letters.
Chipper Jones has better stats than Derek Jeter.
Chipper Jones is, in fact, a better baseball player than Derek Jeter
But Jeter’s a champion and Chipper’s a chump
Jeff R
October 8th, 2009
3:00 pm
P. W. Hjort… you raise a good point about Prado’s ability to play first. If the Braves pass on LaRoche, or can’t sign him, I’d say Prado is definitely an option at 1B. But I think he’s of greater value in the middle infield. I think the Braves are a better defensive team up the middle with Prado at 2B.
I can’t imagine Kelly getting another shot at 2B. He bombed in the field and, most importantly, at the plate.
Probably wouldn’t be discussing him if he had delivered offensively.
Soph
October 8th, 2009
3:00 pm
So, did the Phillies/Rockies game start at 2:37 on the dot?
P. W. Hjort
October 8th, 2009
3:00 pm
flange 1 –
I like the argument that you are presenting to keep KJ, but do really believe the Braves front office is thinking that way?
I don’t know. Possibly. More likely not. Let me be clear though, I’m not saying the Braves should keep Kelly at all costs. If they can get something more valuable than him, they should do it. And they have a perfectly capable 2B in Prado which makes Kelly expendable. But the notion among bloggers and Braves fans in general that Kelly Johnson is a worthless commodity, isn’t worth what he would make in arbitration, and should be non-tendered, is complete hogwash.
tiger297
October 8th, 2009
3:01 pm
PWH wouldn’t you rather have infante/diaz playing the role you describe for KJ?
Lunatic Fringe
October 8th, 2009
3:02 pm
P. W. Hjort ,
Yes he played there in 2005, but has had elbow surgery since then, potentially caused by throwing from the OF, and has not played there since.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:03 pm
“In a vacuum, Kelly Johnson is worth $4.5 million”
Hell, he’s worth it in real life too, as long it’s for five years of work
P. W. Hjort
October 8th, 2009
3:04 pm
Jeff R -
you raise a good point about Prado’s ability to play first. If the Braves pass on LaRoche, or can’t sign him, I’d say Prado is definitely an option at 1B. But I think he’s of greater value in the middle infield.
I wasn’t suggesting Prado be the full-time 1B. He’s more valuable as a 2B and he should be the starting 2B in 2010 (unless every other option at 1B falls through, including convincing Larry to move across the diamond). What I was suggesting is that when the team’s 2010 regular 1B needs a day off, Prado could move to 1B for a game and Kelly gets the start at 2B.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:05 pm
Cox was hee-hawing, and/or parroting what someone higher up told him.
Kinda like a certain ajc beat/blog writer now that I think about it
Jeff R
October 8th, 2009
3:05 pm
I don’t think Johnson is worthless, but I think his 2009 performance has made him worth a lot less.
I’d rather see the Braves get something for Johnson rather than non-tender him. But I’d rather they non-tender him than re-up him. Conrad is a cheaper alternative off the bench, and better defensively. Late in games, that often matters.
Lunatic Fringe
October 8th, 2009
3:05 pm
P. W. Hjort
But the notion among bloggers and Braves fans in general that Kelly Johnson is a worthless commodity, isn’t worth what he would make in arbitration, and should be non-tendered, is complete hogwash.
Just to be clear, that is not the argument I am making either. My point is that he has no value to the Braves, since they have better options for starters, and would need more versatility on the bench.
Jeff R
October 8th, 2009
3:09 pm
P. W. Hjort… Ah, got it. But Chipper’s not moving; I think he’s meant what he’s said about not doing so. If the Braves let LaRoche walk, who’s out there? Who’d be a better, cost-effective option than Prado for a season or two?
As mentioned earlier, I’m not for moving Prado to 1B. But it is an interesting thought.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:10 pm
“Vasquez SHOULD NOT be traded under any circumstance. Heck, Vasquez’ name SHOULDNT be brought up at all in trade conversations”
A 33 year old pitcher who has a lot of mileage on the arm and who just had a career year with an ERA about a run and a half under what it was for the preceding five years combined?
You are talking a guy at peak value who may again pitch well but who almost certainly wont duplicate this past season.
You absolutely see if anyone out there is willing to step on their wee-wee to get him. If some team makes you a halfway decent trade offer, we tell them they have to take Vasquez AND Cox and if they bite, we pull the trigger
Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
October 8th, 2009
3:11 pm
Reasons I hate fall/winter:
1 Blog per week
No lineups
Feeling of loneliness/depression from 7-10 pm every weeknight
Weight gain due to binge eating/drinking all weekend to cope with said depression
Hockey sucks
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:11 pm
“That’s pretty clever. Did you just think of that? If so, you should repeat it tirelessly while assuming it’s still hilarious.”
Not trying to be clever or funny. Just statin’ the facts
Jeff R
October 8th, 2009
3:11 pm
Think Wren will look to swap Lowe for a power bat. That’s my bet, anyway.
flange 1
October 8th, 2009
3:12 pm
PWH,
I agree with your 3:00. I think you have expressed my opinion on KJ perfectly with that post and others today….
Props to you!!
Daslied
October 8th, 2009
3:13 pm
jeffrey d (2:51 pm)
“Although I wouldn’t be completely upset if it was something like Volquez for Hamilton.”
I don’t know; that trade’s looking worse and worse for both sides. I have a feeling Hamilton won’t live up to his potential because of injuries, and who knows how Volquez will rebound from surgery?
Now, if you’re just saying the idea of a trade – good, young pitcher for good, young hitter – is acceptable, then I somewhat agree. JJ for Braun? Ok.
flange 1
October 8th, 2009
3:16 pm
Efrim,
I like what KLAW has to say usually and I agree with him on Lowe. I tend to think Lowe might get traded for relief pitching.
For example, there has been much speculation in Red Sox land that Theo wants another starter and is tiring of Papplebon.
What about a trade of Lowe for Papplebon and maybe Declarman? Maybe the Braves throw in cash?
I think Bard is close to being ready for Boston.
What do you think of that?
Cooper S
October 8th, 2009
3:17 pm
This may have been mentioned, but I just saw it:
Congrats, DOB on being named Atlanta’s Best Local TV, Magazine, or Newspaper Reporter by Creative Loafing
Glad to see the word is out
Thrillhouse44
October 8th, 2009
3:19 pm
jeffrey d @ 2:51 was hilarious.
Not trying to be clever or funny. Just statin’ the facts Robert
Seriously? That’s your retort? “It’s a fact that Cox was hee-hawing”. That’s the best you got? Nothing you say can be taken seriously.
Danga
October 8th, 2009
3:19 pm
Robert…You do realize that you are just going out of your way to be an arse at this point. We all get that you think Cox barely has the IQ to feed himself. We get that you think team wins are a better estimate of a player’s value. We get it. Relax.
David O'Brien
October 8th, 2009
3:23 pm
Robert, that’s a shame. You make a perfectly sound, reasonable comment about why they should at least explore trading Vazquez (he’s at peak value), then it’s like your self-destructive side (for blog purposes, we mean) takes over and you sully your otherwise solid comment with a silly, typically (for you) childish line about a man who you obsess over, who occupies so much of the space in your brain, even as you and your opinion, regardless of how many countless times it’s repeated, continue to represent zero percent of his thoughts or concerns, or the thoughts or concerns who pay him a good sum to run their team.
So sad.
Carry on, however. I think we’re all a bit pleased, in some sick way, to welcome your annual return, now that the actual baseball season is over. This is your season. Baseball’s version of the silly season. When one’s primary thoughts about baseball are about a retiring future Hall-of-Fame manager, not the sport itself, well, hey, whatever gets your motor running. Keep it up.
Oh, but if you make another comment like the one you just made and I deleted, where your juvenile sense of humor takes over and you can’t resist the potty humor, we’ll have to ban you. Just to let you know.
(And really, you don’t want to deprive good Braves fans here of your brilliant observations about all things Cox, do you? So clean it up a bit, if you don’t mind. It’s not the middle-school playground.)
Random
October 8th, 2009
3:24 pm
P. W. Hjort‘ en fuego (October 8th, 2009 2:32 pm)!
(And he’s kinda cute, too — check out his pix at Poz’.)
SashaStevens
October 8th, 2009
3:24 pm
The only three guys Ive seen on the Braves roster who should be considered for trades are Chipper Jones, Kelley Johnson and Derek Lowe. Everybody else is untouchable if the Braves want to build on what they started this year of rebuilding their team into a playoff contender. The Braves are right there because they are NOW contenders. Now ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS trade these three guys for the power bat of either Juan Pierre, Prince Fielder or Carlos DelGado and the Braves should be hoisting the world series champtionship trophy next October in 2010!
DAP
October 8th, 2009
3:25 pm
pwh jort i dont know anything really about the VORP stats, but i have to say that if they make it look like kelly johnson is worth $4.5 million, i dont put stock in them. i would believe kelly being worth what he made this past season, maybe ($2.8mil), but i cannot agree with anything that suggests he is worth $4.5mil this past year, and especially next year, when he will probably get fewer ABs because he is the third best option at his only position.
Il Cattivo
October 8th, 2009
3:25 pm
Congrats to DOB for the award!!
6-4-3
October 8th, 2009
3:27 pm
They’ve got to be kidding me with that picture of Gonzo and McCann on the Braves page here.
Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
October 8th, 2009
3:28 pm
Sasha,
You aren’t expecting to get much in return, huh? Chipper’s a 10-5 guy. He ain’t going anywhere.
DAP
October 8th, 2009
3:28 pm
“Although I wouldn’t be completely upset if it was something like Volquez for Hamilton.”
the current braves pitcher somewhat equal to volquez before the hamilton trade is kris medlen, or maybe jojo reyes, not jair jurjens. volquez spent 3 years of part time duty and just performed terribly for the rangers before being traded. jurjjens has had two excellent years in a row for the braves.
Frank Robinson (Rockmart)
October 8th, 2009
3:29 pm
Power bat of Juan Pierre. LMAO!
DAP
October 8th, 2009
3:31 pm
and im thinking my previous post about VORP illustrates the fact that i dont understand them.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:31 pm
“This is your season. Baseball’s version of the silly season. ”
1. I have been here all year
2. If your thoughts and concerns represent a millionth of percent more than mine do to those who run the team , and yet you voice your opinion all the tim – so can THAT angle
3. Dont even PRETEND at this point to be happy that I am here. You dont like me one bit. I dont nod my head up and down and run for the edge of the cliff like a good lemming when the great grand blog poo-bah proclaims the gospel that he has made sure his handlers approve of
O’Brien – I dont know how the rosters will look. I dont know what injuries will happen. I dont know how the ball will bounce, or how the umps will call ‘em – but I say this
If Cox follows thru on his announced intentions to retire after 2010, then I say that the 2011 Atlanta Braves win at least 10 games more than the 2010 Atlanta Braves
You want a piece of that? Name the wager, mofo and you got it
Take my bet, and you’ll have gotten my respect (even as I take the candy from the baby).
Cuz simply trying to ridicule me by citing the opinions of the folks in your old boys “in baseball” club aint cuttin it
Are we on or off?
P. W. Hjort
October 8th, 2009
3:32 pm
tiger297 -
PWH wouldn’t you rather have infante/diaz playing the role you describe for KJ?
I’d like for the Braves to keep all three.
Jeff R -
Conrad is a cheaper alternative off the bench, and better defensively.
That’s probably wrong. Ever scouting report of Conrad suggests he has an iron glove.
If the Braves let LaRoche walk, who’s out there? Who’d be a better, cost-effective option than Prado for a season or two?
I don’t know. There are plenty of options on the trade market and FA market. I’m not cringing at the thought of Prado playing 1B, but he’s more valuable as the team’s starting 2B.
Lunatic Fringe -
Just to be clear, that is not the argument I am making either. My point is that he has no value to the Braves, since they have better options for starters, and would need more versatility on the bench.
I don’t buy the arguement. The versatility of the starting 2B (Prado) makes Kelly’s lack thereof a non-issue in my opinion.
Yes he played there in 2005, but has had elbow surgery since then, potentially caused by throwing from the OF, and has not played there since.
True, but that’s not evidence that he’s incapable of playing the OF. Bobby Cox even said that Kelly would be considered for CF depth when Infante went down (pre-McLouth/Church, of course).
Random -
Thanks.
DAP –
i dont know anything really about the VORP stats, but i have to say that if they make it look like kelly johnson is worth $4.5 million, i dont put stock in them. i would believe kelly being worth what he made this past season, maybe ($2.8mil), but i cannot agree with anything that suggests he is worth $4.5mil this past year, and especially next year, when he will probably get fewer ABs because he is the third best option at his only position.
WAR suggests Kelly was worth $3.1 million in 2009. It suggests he was worth $9.5 million in 2008, $12.8 million in 2007, and (as a LF) $5.8 million in 2005.
David O'Brien
October 8th, 2009
3:34 pm
Cooper S: Thanks. Don’t know what I did to get in their good graces two years in a row, but it’s pretty cool to see that (someone e-mailed me a link; I actually hadn’t heard about it until then). Since I’ve always read those alternative papers in every city I’ve lived in or visited, it means a lot to me.
CaptainVideo
October 8th, 2009
3:36 pm
I dont understand at all why Cox keeps hee-hawing about Kelly Johnson. Kelly Johnson WILL NEVER EVER MAKE IT IN THE BIG LEAGUES. Lets dump KJ for a quick powerful potent bat and package a trade to improve out ballclub.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:36 pm
Meanwhile on a totally different note, I am surprised that noone has made mention of the Brian Powell tragedy
RIP
DAP
October 8th, 2009
3:38 pm
<strongpwhjort can you find out what WAR said marcus giles was worth in 2006?
Soph
October 8th, 2009
3:39 pm
I see hee-hawing is the phrase of the day.
David O'Brien
October 8th, 2009
3:39 pm
Robert: Simmer down there, fella.
Why would I bet when I agree? Who wouldn’t think that a team with the elite young talent the Braves have — with Jurrjens and Hanson, and Heyward and Freeman and Kimbrel on the way, and Escobar and McCann entering their primes in another couple years — who wouldn’t assume that team would win 10 more games than next year’s team? I mean, unless next year’s team wins 94-95 games, in which case I’d say 2011 team could win another five or so.
But anyway, nah, no interest in taking you up on your bet. Anyway, what would you bet, crayons? Bingo cards?
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:41 pm
“Oh, but if you make another comment like the one you just made and I deleted, where your juvenile sense of humor takes over and you can’t resist the potty humor, we’ll have to ban you. Just to let you know.”
When you tell me that you also warned the guy who started that line of conversation, then I’ll believe that you are acting sincerely
In other words, you dont ban or threaten to ban a bunch of other folks who use similar or worse language
You’re looking for an excuse to ban me –
Trust me, I’m gonna work on not giving you the pleasure
Do we have a bet, my “friend”?
Fred
October 8th, 2009
3:41 pm
Robert, You are truly unbelievable. What is the purpose of coming on this blog just to hurl childish insults at DOB, Cox, Chipper (you called him a chump even though I doubt you have ever met him), etc?. Dude, you have some serious issues. Why shouldn’t we just have a respectable, adult conversation/debate about the Braves? Frankly, I really hope you are banned from here. I don’t think you will be missed.
nolie
October 8th, 2009
3:44 pm
If you can get 2 wins out of your 2nd string 2B and pay him less than $4.5 million, you’re in very good shape. (PWH)
I’ve never read their explanation of values. Is it reasonable to expect a back up IFer andone who might have to share with Infante some, to be worth two wins? I would think it would be hard to be worth one win but I don’t know. I wouldn’t mind having him back, but I see better places to put 4million dollars than in a backup IFer when you could use a rookie who might be just as productive since we really have no idea whether Kelly would bounce back under those situations after his dismal 2009. I’ll be surprised if they are willing to put that kinda money into him, theoretic value or not.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:47 pm
“Why would I bet when I agree? Who wouldn’t think that a team with the elite young talent the Braves have — with Jurrjens and Hanson, and Heyward and Freeman and Kimbrel on the way, and Escobar and McCann entering their primes in another couple years — who wouldn’t assume that team would win 10 more games than next year’s team? I mean, unless next year’s team wins 94-95 games, in which case I’d say 2011 team could win another five or so.
But anyway, nah, no interest in taking you up on your bet. Anyway, what would you bet, crayons? Bingo cards?”
1. You’re trying to tell me that you have a group that overall had a career season and you are SO confient that they will get better that you agree that they will win at least 10 more games, even THO in your reckoning they will be losing a HOFer manager? – come on now. I throw the BS flag
That team will be two years older for any current guys, and you have no certainty that some of there rocks like your buddy Chipper will be there
But of course your caveat that well, if they win 95 games
No caveats here chief. I simply say- —
Take away Cox, add 10 games to the win total.
5 crayons? 5 cold ones? 5 season tickets? Your call
Of course your call is to not take a bet you know deep down is a loser and then offer up horsehockey to rationalize/explain it.
Talk to me again when you have the spine to back what you claim to believe
P. W. Hjort
October 8th, 2009
3:49 pm
DAP -
can you find out what WAR said marcus giles was worth in 2006?
Certainly. Marcus Giles posted a 0.8 WAR in 2006, which was worth $3.1 million. His salary was $3.9 million, making his contract inefficient.
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:49 pm
““Why would I bet when I agree? Who wouldn’t think that a team with the elite young talent the Braves have — with Jurrjens and Hanson, and Heyward and Freeman and Kimbrel on the way, and Escobar and McCann entering their primes in another couple years — who wouldn’t assume that team would win 10 more games than next year’s team?”
My gosh DOB, you forget, they will losing their HOF manager, the greatest of all time. The 2011 team is going to managed by a mere mortal, not god himself
You’re smart for not taking my bet. But not for the reason you tried to invoke
nolie
October 8th, 2009
3:51 pm
Offensively? No so much, although he is an efficient basestealer. He’s a free swinger who makes a ton of outs and needs to become less pull-oriented with his approach, but a 24-year-old with those type of contact issues might be too great to overcome. (PWH)
what I been saying forever. good luck to him though.
DAP
October 8th, 2009
3:52 pm
pwhjort i said:can you find out what WAR said marcus giles was worth in 2006?
and heres why i ask. in 2006 marcus giles hit .262/.341/.387 for a .729 OPS. he had 11 homers, 32 doubles, and 60 RBIs. that is quite a bit better than kelly johnson’s .692 OPS in nearly half the ABs….
if WAR sys kelly was worth $3.1mil for his 2009 season, it probably would have agreed that marcus giles was worth the $3.8mil he made in 2006. well, the braves didnt think so, and dint want him to get a raise either. and no one else thought so, and wouldnt trade for him. he ended up getting released, and signing for LESS than his 2006 salary. (not much less, about $.6mil) which would tell me that maybe this WAR value isnt based in reality, because no one would pay marcus what he was supposedly worth.
Daslied
October 8th, 2009
3:52 pm
DOB – I apologize if my 3:16 was the comment that made Robert post whatever was deleted. Please don’t hesitate to delete it.
ugaaccountant
October 8th, 2009
3:52 pm
Various thoughts:
Let’s try to disagree about KJ without getting silly. Brooks Conrad is not ahead of him on the depth chart. Brooks isn’t some stud prospect, he’s a guy who wildly exceeded expectations to do what he did this year.
We have plenty of positional flexibility to our roster. Prado and Infante can cover enough positions that we don’t have to seek out any defensive specialists for our bench. And with Greg Norton likely to retire, that’s 1 more available sub on our bench for more than pinch hitting. Plus we have plenty of adequate call-ups for short term needs in Gwinnett.
The various stats you guys are showing on KJ do show that he is worth arbitration. Even better would be to trade him for a 3b prospect or a proven but cheap relief pitcher.
I wonder if given Gamels “failure” this year, if KJ for Gamels might work? Not sure on Weeks contract for the Brewers but he did have a major injury. Cross train Gamels for LF and 3b and see if he’s our long term answer for Chipper. I wouldn’t mind trading Medlen for him either, but only one for one. No more silly overly large trades.
I don’t want to trade Kawakami. He’s a perfect #5. His ERA wound up pretty stellar. To me Kawakami > Medlen.
I think we could get something worked out to a) trade Lowe and b) somehow turn that into a better ballclub overall. I don’t know who it would be, but there’s got to be some club with a OF bat that needs pitching. Failing that, trade Vasquez instead. I perdict Vasquez around a 3.5 era next year and Lowe right at 4.0. So if the trade quality is drastically better give up Vasquez. I’m just surprised we can’t land an above average OF for Lowe.
tiger297
October 8th, 2009
3:53 pm
PWH so assuming we get the RH power LF (which is think is important to be successful in the postseason) I don’t think the Braves can afford to have Diaz/Infante/KJ/Church on the bench…think we agree Diaz/Infante stay (unless we packaged one of them with Lowe) who would you keep and why?
DAP
October 8th, 2009
3:54 pm
i guess WAR value keeps changing if the replacement level player gets worse and worse….so in ‘06, marcos was worth as much as kelly was in 2009, even though he played more games and had better numbers…
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:54 pm
“Why would I bet when I agree? Who wouldn’t think that a team with the elite young talent the Braves have — with Jurrjens and Hanson, and Heyward and Freeman and Kimbrel on the way, and Escobar and McCann entering their primes in another couple years — who wouldn’t assume that team would win 10 more games than next year’s team? I mean, unless next year’s team wins 94-95 games, in which case I’d say 2011 team could win another five or so.”
Uh huh. All those guys are not only sure to stay healthy but are so so elite that for example all three of the minor leaguers will have immediate huge season changing impact on their team. And of course, remember, this is so much so that the team will just shrug off the loss of their HOF manager and plow forward.
You already practicing your explanation for why being rid of Cox wasnt the reason for the dramatic improvement between 2010 and 2011
Well done, cuz it’s gonna take LOTS of practice to get even your most brainwashed accolytes to swallow that pill
Keep at it. Practice in front of the mirror until you can do it with a straight face. Run it by your buddy Ringolsby. Better yet go over it with Cox while you share a stogie with him in Fla next spring
Or, try the honorable way. Take my bet, lose, and admit you were wrong about Cox being a great manager
nolie
October 8th, 2009
3:57 pm
Reporter by Creative Loafing
is that Garret’s company?
David O'Brien
October 8th, 2009
3:57 pm
Robert: yeah, uh huh. Makes sense to me.
tiger297
October 8th, 2009
3:59 pm
Nolie Good Call
keylargo
October 8th, 2009
4:00 pm
I’d rather see the Braves get something for Johnson rather than non-tender him. But I’d rather they non-tender him than re-up him. Conrad is a cheaper alternative off the bench, and better defensively. Late in games, that often matters.
That’s it. The single worst judgement of talent I have seen on this blog.
P. W. Hjort
October 8th, 2009
4:01 pm
DAP,
There is such a thing as inflation. Giles posted a better WAR in 2006 (0.8) than KJ did in 2009 (0.7). But they’re worth the same amount of money because a dollar today is worth less than a dollar in 2006.
David O'Brien
October 8th, 2009
4:01 pm
Nolie, now THAT was funny.
If only we could give one small slice of your sense of humor to our humorless misanthrope. Would you mind? It’d be for the good of humanity, or at least the blogulace.
Then again, a side of me likes to see how far it can go with just the slightest bit of chain-pulling … er, encouragement.
CB
October 8th, 2009
4:01 pm
Robert, it is called paranoia. Look it up in the dictionary and it has your picture beside of it. Get help, please.
ugaaccountant
October 8th, 2009
4:04 pm
Of the hitters who aren’t sure things:
Laroche>Diaz>Infante>Johnson>Church>Norton
We need to keep the first 3 pretty bad, which is why the Braves are trying to trade Johnson to make room salary wise.
Then just non-tender Church and Norton and use two of the following Jordan Schaefer or Brandon Jones or Matt Young or Gregor Blanco or Brian Barton or Barbaro Canizares. No reason to pay Church/Norton when we have acceptable rookie salary options. Plus someone will almost certainly have to make way for Heyward in June.
P. W. Hjort
October 8th, 2009
4:06 pm
I’ve got to go do schoolwork. Thanks for the civil debates. Was fun.
Bat Masterson
October 8th, 2009
4:06 pm
Robert
October 8th, 2009
3:11 pm
“That’s pretty clever. Did you just think of that? If so, you should repeat it tirelessly while assuming it’s still hilarious.”
Not trying to be clever or funny. Just statin’ the facts
Sport, there is no way you can claim your heehaw comment as FACT
ugaaccountant
October 8th, 2009
4:07 pm
Is there some reason i’m missing on why there won’t be deflation in salaries this off season? Seems Kelly’s arbitration should go in the downward direction as he’s clearly declined in value as a player compared to last year? Even someone who retained the same exact value should be paid a little less just like everyone else in this economy right?
DAP
October 8th, 2009
4:10 pm
ugaaccountant
because of the players union, kelly’s salary will more than likely increase.
Lunatic Fringe
October 8th, 2009
4:11 pm
P. W. Hjort ,
enjoyed it, I am glad I am done with my studies, Good Luck!
O'Brien
October 8th, 2009
4:14 pm
DOB,
If I’m not mistaken, you blogged yesterday that once you got your new computer up and running, you would put up a new blog today?
Is that still the case? I hope so, because I look forward to your blogs.
Random
October 8th, 2009
4:15 pm
Robert (October 8th, 2009 2:59 pm): “But Jeter’s a champion and Chipper’s a chump”
You’re being sarcastic, aren’t you?
You’re just mocking Quisp and his pronouncement of “Jeter = winner, Chipper = loser”, right?
Right?
David O'Brien
October 8th, 2009
4:19 pm
O’Brien: Much as I look forward to you using a screen name other than my last name. But since that’s apparently not going to happen, I’ll revert to what I said before, that I’m going to avoid answering questions from you because it’s a bit confusing and, more importantly, a lot annoying.
nolie
October 8th, 2009
4:24 pm
Even someone who retained the same exact value should be paid a little less just like everyone else in this economy right? (Uga Acc)
not according to the players union.
McFann Ô
October 8th, 2009
4:25 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/We-have-seen-Bo-Jackson-and-Orlando-Cabrera-is-n?urn=mlb,194747
ugaaccountant
October 8th, 2009
4:26 pm
Unions
flange 1
October 8th, 2009
4:26 pm
Wow Random, you are giving Robert a lot of credit aren’t you?
nolie
October 8th, 2009
4:27 pm
(DOB)
you gotta be loving the new format now, huh? No more automatic 1000 posts new or updated blogs. I know I would
O'Brien
October 8th, 2009
4:31 pm
DOB,
I can understand the confusion, but O’Brien is actually my middle name.
So you’re suggesting that if I use another screen name when asking you a question, that you’re more likely to answer?
Oh wait, you’re not gonna answer that, are you?
Random
October 8th, 2009
4:32 pm
Robert (October 8th, 2009 3:31 pm): “If Cox follows thru on his announced intentions to retire after 2010, then I say that the 2011 Atlanta Braves win at least 10 games more than the 2010 Atlanta Braves”
Makes sense.
Since the Braves improved by 29 games by hiring Cox as manager in 1991, and improved by 13 games from 2001 to 2002 and by 14 games from 2008 to 2009 by keeping Cox, it only stands to reason that they wouldn’t show as much improvement when they lose him.
AndyC
October 8th, 2009
4:35 pm
DOB
Have you ever considered that O’Brien’s name is really O’Brien? Probably not but just wondering.
AndyC
October 8th, 2009
4:36 pm
I see that he has already addressed that question…
Random
October 8th, 2009
4:37 pm
flange 1 (October 8th, 2009 4:26 pm): “Wow, you are giving Robert a lot of credit aren’t you?”
I dunno — I sincerely think he was being sarcastic.
I mean, he really can be an obnoxious twerp, but he ain’t stupid.
He’s made a lot of good points about baseball, the Braves, and even Cox.
He just seems to prefer to operate in perpetual jerk mode — I figure sarcasm is a variant of that.
Steve from OH
October 8th, 2009
4:39 pm
So I’m reading the blog and I see a coherent post from Robert…double-take…wondering in amazement…oh, wait. There it is. The Cox bash. Why?
Of course your call is to not take a bet you know deep down is a loser and then offer up horsehockey to rationalize/explain it.
This is such B.S. I find it so incredibly humorous that you can be so unbelievably pretentious as to think (with such a degree of certainty, might I add) that the 2011 team will be, without a doubt, 10 games better than the 2010 team without having any idea of the compositions (respectively) of those two teams (spare me the token “but I know the manager will be different hee hee hee!” line). Whatever. Think what you will. I have no idea how either season’s gonna shake up because I don’t know who will be on the team.
What will you do if the 2011 team is worse? What will you do if they are actually 10 games better but add some really good players along the way? What if they bring the exact same team back and finish with the exact same record?
Let me give you an analogy. You’re trying to reduce a complex game like baseball down to a single variable (and not the variable of chief importance) and explain all of that team’s variation from whatever you consider to be the normal as being due to that single variable. This is wrong, and you should know that. That’s like trying to reduce a complex physiological process and all of its pathology down to one thing…like, say, muscle contraction and ATP. Well, it’s just one component, and how do you explain all of the other errors of muscle physiology that occur? For you to pretend that ATP in muscle is the whole story of its physiology and pathology is like pretending Cox is the entire root of all of the Braves’ problems. He’s not. You’re wrong.
Make informed, relevant points. You’re clearly capable of it. Don’t mock your own intelligence by being so pretentious, redundant, and wrong.
flange 1
October 8th, 2009
4:47 pm
Random,
I don’t doubt that Robert isn’t and idiot and that he knows some things about baseball, but for the past 4 years, we get nothing but like what we got today.
It used to be 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Now he comes and goes. (thankfully)
We have all tried to argue with hi, ask him nicely to talk about something else, scream and complain to get him to stop and finally ignore him completely, but it is the same one note song over and over again.
And lately, he even gets surly with DOB.
I don’t care if he likes us or DOB at all, it just seems to me to be a little nuts to come to a place where you don’t like anyone, where everyone doesn’t like you, where your opinion is in stark contrast to most (ok some) of the people here, and where you say the same thing over and over illogically.
Sounds like a strange person if you ask me. So strange I can’t even come up with a name for it….
Tomahawkin
October 8th, 2009
4:50 pm
Man! That Phillies offense never gives up! That’s what makes them so good! If the braves Awfense were down by 4 to CY Cook they would’ve gave up and tanked the game
And Did I mention that Contreas Sucks?
Steve from OH
October 8th, 2009
4:50 pm
Sounds like a strange person if you ask me. So strange I can’t even come up with a name for it….
Hold that thought. Ask me again in June.
ncscoots
October 8th, 2009
4:51 pm
You guys leave Robert alone, LOL. You’d rather have a day full of Dentz, Doc, and Tomahawkin, instead? Rave on, Robert, my man.
Efrim
October 8th, 2009
4:53 pm
flange1, despite his slight regression this year, I think the Red Sox are going to want to hold onto Papelbon through 2011 – even with his pay raises through arbitration. I think Bard still needs to show he can get lefties out and pitch in high leverage situations over the course of a full season before he is placed in the closers role. Plus, I really don’t think any American League East teams will be interested in Lowe. I’m not sure ANY AL teams will be. I could be wrong though. Perhaps Seattle, with their amazing defense?
jtb
October 8th, 2009
4:53 pm
DOB
Congrats on the Creative Loafing award. You certainly deserve it for all you do for us Braves fans with this blog.