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3,403 comments Add your comment
Jeff R
October 6th, 2009
10:34 am
“This will not be Chippers last season. I can give you 42 million reasons why. Chipper had a weak moment when things weren’t going well and discussed the possibility of hanging them up next year.”
Anders, possibly. But we may just want to take Chipper at his word. Why, he may actually mean what he says. And he didn’t say he’d retire if he boosted his offensive output next season. Which is fine by me, provided he doesn’t revert to a 120 games a season guy.
I don’t expect Chipper to return to the offensive production of his heyday. If the guy plays 140 games, his 20-odd homers, drives in 90 RBIs, that would be good.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
10:35 am
I don’t know, Lew. Maybe I am. I just know that if I was doing someone’s job better than them and had eventually been given that job and continued to do it better than they had and then at raise time my boss told everyone ‘oh hey, maybe we’ll put her in the janitorial department or somewhere, I mean, we just can’t give up on that person who she outperformed!’ then yes, I would most certainly feel dissed.
Anyway, I don’t think he’ll be back, just reading that yesterday rubbed me the wrong way. DOB just giving us something new to argue over lol.
Jeff R
October 6th, 2009
10:37 am
Schafer needs a full season at AAA to play and produce.
Lew
October 6th, 2009
10:39 am
Anders-Good for them. I will still wait and see what they can do to fix an extremely flawed, old team with numerous holes. They will need lots of money if they are to find a couple of starting pitchers, middle relief and a first baseman.
In addition, can Beltran remain healthy? Is Wright going to adjust to the new stadium? Will Castilla still be able to put up numbers like he did this year (he was very valuable to the Mets, IMO)? Will Reyes be able to return? If he does, will he be anything more than a vague shadow of himself?
Money or no, Dude, there is much work for the Mets to do this offseason. We’ll just see how it all shakes out. I think it will take a couple of years, bare minimum, to get back to the Mets’ 06 levels. It won’t happen next year and maybe not the year after, either. I’d much rather complete the Braves for playoff contention than have to take on what the Mets face. That’s for damned sure. I do NOT envy Omar. Job security? I doubt he has much left.
DAP
October 6th, 2009
10:40 am
andersJeff Wilpon was on the FAN yesterday and he unequivocally said that the Mets payroll will not be impacted by the Madoff scandal or restricted because of any financial issues….The fact that he would so publicly state this tells me there’s not much too worry about regarding this.
but you think cox talking up kelly is just posturing, right?
Anders
October 6th, 2009
10:42 am
Lew- Good objective stuff as usual.
McFann Ô
October 6th, 2009
10:42 am
Shaun–
I couldn’t agree more.
His bat would almost certainly be less valuable at first. Sure he hits enough but he’s not likely to be one of the 2-3 best offensive firstbasemen in the league as he is behind the plate.
Sooo true. An exceptionally good hitting catcher doesn’t necessarily = an exceptionally good hitting first baseman.
Lew
October 6th, 2009
10:43 am
RHR-If Kelly was actually an option, he would have replaced Martin well before now. It didn’t happen and KJ got damned little playing time after returning. THAT right there says MUCH more than any vague comments Bobby made.I would be willing to bet that Martin never even heard the comments, or if he did, that he paid a bit of attention to them. Dude’s probably on his way south of the border to see his family and couldn’t care less. He knows he’ll have a 2010 contract and that he will play somewhere-probably at first, second, third AND the outfield.
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
10:51 am
6-4-3: Wherever Schafer is he should be starting. If he’s “ready”, then he needs to play everyday in Atlanta. If he’s not, then he needs to play everyday in AAA until it clicks. If his development isn’t progressing, then being a bench player will only make it worse.
Lunatic Fringe: An OPS of .851 from 2nd base is outstanding. Not saying KJ can post that over a full season, but I’d love to see him (or Prado) do it. That’s part of the problem with the offense being mediocre – everyone wants a superstar at every position, when it’s just not possible.
monty
October 6th, 2009
10:51 am
McFAnn O
I’m not anti-McCAnn at being the catcher. What I am looking at is the longterm. Something that speaking as a person who used to be young like you once upon a time can say from experience, you don’t really look that far ahead. Many a former catcher has had to either hobble around after they retire or have knee replacement surgery in their 50’s. And that’s not as old as you probably think or even Brian thinks. I think his bat is “special”. The catcher for the Twins (who hits very well) gets to catch 80 games inside their airconditioned park, not in an outside park like Hot-Lanta. Brian could very well be a HOF catcher, with some longevity there. Let’s hope he gets it. He could play 1b and collide with a runner there and be hurt, you never know, but catching is definitely “risky business”.
Anders
October 6th, 2009
10:51 am
DAP -I fully expected that answer and it’s a fair one. That’s why I said the proof would be in the pudding. However, there is a big difference between an owner going on their flagship station and making that type od statement and a manager mentioning the KJ thing in passing to a beat reporter (no disrespect intended DOB).
Lew
October 6th, 2009
10:51 am
Anders-Actually, though I know you were being sarcastic about my comments, I fail to see what I might have said that was not true. The Mets DO have all of those questions. With money can they fix them? Probably so, but like the Braves last winter, there are so many needs that Omar would do well to tackle one area at a time before moving to another area, like Wren did with our pitching. Obviously, he got what we needed pitching wise, but it will take this winter to round the offense out.
Seriously though-who do the Mets have in the minors ready to come up and contribute? I haven’t heard of anyone. How is Johan doing? Will he have surgery? Will he be all right without it? Will the lack of surgery allow him to pitch a full year in 2010? What starters do you have after him and (sometimes) Pelfrey? Will Putz come back to past levels?
No sarcasm or anything nasty intended. I just am very happy that the Braves have considerably less holes needing to be filled than the Mets. Omar really DOES have an almost impossible job this winter-unless he has a Yankee sized payroll (and keep in mind that the Mets’ attendance dropped WAY off), I’m doubting he can do it all this time around and if he doesn’t, he’s out of there as GM, I would imagine.
DAP
October 6th, 2009
10:55 am
anders yeah, there is certainly a difference in the setting and all that stuff. but, you know…you being a mets fan and all, i have to say stuff like that to you. its in the DOB/MIB handbook.
Jeff R
October 6th, 2009
11:05 am
Lew makes good points. The Mets will have pot-loads of money, no doubt. But will they spend that money wisely? Will they be able to buy what they need? Is what they need in the marketplace? Lew raises a good point about Santana too. Surgery removes their ace for a part of next season.
And what about the Mets’ farm system? If you can’t buy the talent, you have to produce.
Mike S
October 6th, 2009
11:17 am
beekay-
I’m not positive, but i think in the scenario you listed (Yanks sign 3 type A Free Agents, but don’t lose any) that the yanks would only give up their first round pick. The team who lost the highest rated of those FA’s would get that pick, while the other two teams that lost the other two FA’s would get supplemental picks at the end of the first round. Is that correct, DOB or anyone else?
David O'Brien
October 6th, 2009
11:18 am
RHR: I didn’t write that note yesterday about Prado/Johnson. That was Carroll. She did the daily story out of the day-after informal press conference thing with Bobby. I was writing a story to run later this week. I just thought I’d add the part about Bobby saying he wasn’t suggesting anything and that it hadn’t been discussed, my way of saying I didn’t read much into it — I don’t think it’s happening, in other words. But who knows? He did say what he said.
BBraves
October 6th, 2009
11:20 am
Wouldn’t give Kelly another shot at 2nd next year he is way to streaky of a hitter. Really Kelly is the 3rd best player for 2nd. If Prado can’t go to me Infante is a better option. Keeping Kelly around as a backup utility player doesn’t make sense to due the fact that he can only play LF or 2nd. Would rather see someone else in utility role. Would however like to see what Church could do with a full year with Braves. Know he has been hurt but think there is chance he will have decent year. He can play all outfield positions which is huge makes good 4th outfielder .
David O'Brien
October 6th, 2009
11:22 am
Jeff R: Don’t be so sure about the Mets having “potloads of money” to spend this winter. The owner (Wilpon) lost a lot more than potloads of money in the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme. Somewhere between $500-800 million, according to various reports.
Jeff R
October 6th, 2009
11:24 am
DOB, Wow. I didn’t realize that Wilpon’s hit was that big.
David O'Brien
October 6th, 2009
11:28 am
Anders actually made a lot of sense at 9:12 a.m.
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
11:29 am
DOB – Wilpon said they will be “major players” in free agency. “Whatever Omar needs…” (for the 2010 payroll) is another quote. Whether or not that’s wise, we’ll see.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/10/mets-to-be-players-for-top-free-agents.html
37YrBravesFan
October 6th, 2009
11:30 am
Bobby wants to KEEP Johnson???? And have Prado play outfield??? Next it will be keeping Norton.
I have to take a break (of several months) from the Braves. They were so disappointing. And now I hear this kind of stuff… *sigh*
Jake W.
October 6th, 2009
11:34 am
Now that you know that about the psyroll Anders, outside of getting heathly, what do you see the mets doing to improve for next year and competing with the phils?
Jake W.
October 6th, 2009
11:34 am
suppose to be payroll that last post
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
11:46 am
Ok it’s time to play “Head Of The Class”, “The Finals”…
This is a P-Lentz style post where I will do a grade based evaluation of each relevant braves player based on their performance
I Will start with the starters and add more as I go…Feel free to chime in…
Catchers
B-Macc gets an A for the fact that he missed over 30 games and still was among tops on the team as far as offensive production goes. His footwork behind the plate has shown a lot of improvement due to the fact that he lost weight. Most people don’t notice that his percentage in throwing out baserunners has improved because of this, However baserunners still run at will on him due to the fact that our pitchers suck at holding runners on
D-Ross gets a B. Best backup in the league that could be a starter on many teams. Combine him and B-Macc and you have the best catching corps in the league
1st base
The Kotchmeister gets a B. Singles Hitter who hated Turner Field. His gold glove D saves him from getting a C
Roachy gets an A. Most Underrated midseason acquisition. Gold Glove D and most consistant X-tra base hit threat but yet he batted 7th most of the season. Go Figure? I will address Bobby’s mishandling of him later, which isn’t gonna be good.
2nd Base
KJ gets a D+. Bobby and the fans (including myself) banked too much into him returning to the 2007 KJ. Along wit Francoeur they were our biggest busts, Nuff said!
M.P. AKA M. Prado gets an A. The Team MVP because no one predicted him on having such a surprise year. Underrated offensively and with the glove he’s another version of Placido Polanco…A pure gamer who does the little things to win games. We need more of those
SS
Esco Gets a B+. Still too many mental lapses which keeps him from getting an A. Good D and he was the top cat in the league hitting R.I.S.P.
2 Years from now he has a J-Roll MVP caliber season, Bank On It! And when is he eligible 4 arbitration…?
3B
Chipper, gets a C and I’m being easy on him. The self proclaimed “Leader of the Team” out of S. Training picked to wrong year to have his worst both with the bat and the glove. His year at the plate was in effect to the fact that many believe that his bat has slowed down. I called out Chipper Midseason for having an off year because I was banking on him having a MVP –Like season since he won the B. Title last year after spending half the year injured in some way/shape
Infante gets a B-, his versitality saves him from a C. People should admit that he wasn’t gonna be the savior of the AWFense when he came back from the D.L. As most were led to think he’d pick right up hitting around .330 after 2 months on the D.L. .Hand/wrist injuries don’t work that way
B. Conrad gets a C, Should be a C- but he helped when he got called up in midseason. Too bad he got sent down because he was Hot, Thanks Bobby
D. Hernandez, D, Never should’ve been in the majors after 10 games despite hitting well in AAA he was an automatic out with us
LF
Loaf Gets a C. Other than his Monster Shots at Citi Field he was a singles hitter who should’ve hit either 2nd or 7th, His Defense needs no explanation as to why RHR’s nickame stuck from the 1st month of the season…I better see him as a A.L. DH next year!
CF
Schafer. Gets a C-, Overhyped Prospect still needs 2 years at AAA, and his range/tendency to read fly balls is way sub-par
Nate-Dawg gets a C…Had this been 10 weeks ago he would’ve gotten a B. He folded like a tent in the 2nd half, I guess due to injury, but he wasn’t the same player that we saw with the pirates killing u left and right. Plus his defense is overrated as far as his arm and range goes
RF
Francoeur, D-…Way Overhyped in S. Training because of his “Quote” New Stance, Same as KJ as far as biggest letdown
R.Church, gets a C…Average guy in a power position…On the Phillies/Yankees lineup he’s OK but in ours, his production is a liability. I would be surprised if he is still here a year from now
Matty-D gets a B, I think if he were an everyday player he have 20-80, Defense is suspect however
R. Gorecki and Norton, Both D-….Both Should’ve kept in AAA all Season, Nuff Said
monty
October 6th, 2009
11:46 am
McFann
Did a little research and I do mean little. Looked up some of the great past catchers and looked at when they peaked in their career and at what age were they done hitting wise(not retired). The great Johnny Bench had 2 great years at the ages of 22& 24 and peaked at age 33 and 2 years later he was done(again as a hitter). Carlton Fisk peaked at age 29 and although he had a long career and at age 37 he had a resurgent year, basically his really good years were before the age of 30. Elston Howard the great Yankee catcher during the late 50’s to late 60’s peaked at age 34 and 2 years later he was done. Gary Carter peaked at age 31 and at 34 was done. One thing you will notice with these guys is the fluctuations, sometimes from one year to the next. One year they hit 37 HR the next year 25, two years later they hit 34 HR’s the next year 21. You have to believe alot of their fluctuations had to do with the little ordinary injuries catchers get (and can play through) but do affect their hitting. Brian is 25, so (as a catcher) we can realistically only expect another 5-6 years of his best hitting. And I believe history will bear me out that once a player peaks it’s only a couple of years before their done(hitting wise). From what I’ve seen catchers do peak earlier than other position players. However if he could go ahead and make the change say to 1b he would in all likelyhood be looking at an additional 3-4 years of excellent hitting.
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
11:50 am
Here’s my reasoning behind keeping Kelly Johnson:
–Prado in the OF and KJ @ 2B is more desirable (to me) than Prado @ 2B and Church in the OF (full-time).
–If they strike out on getting a 1B, then Prado’s the likely candidate. KJ is preferable (IMO) to Infante full-time. Omar’s value is as a utility guy, not a locked-into-one-position guy. If Schafer stays in AAA Infante is the backup CF. If McLouth gets hurt, and Infante’s in CF, who plays second? Prado? Then who plays 1st? Diaz? Then who’s in LF/RF? I don’t know, because I confused myself.
–Prado’s no HOF second baseman. He’s a very good hitter that can play multiple positions, which is fantastic. I’m fine with him at second, but I love that he can play 3rd, 1st and OF fairly decently.
–KJ’s better than 2009.
–I have a man-crush on Kelly Johnson. Happy?
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
11:56 am
Tomahawkin –
LaRoche’s career splits, based on batting order position:
4th (943 PA) – .784 OPS
5th (852 PA) – .808 OPS
6th (631 PA) – .865 OPS
7th (482 PA) – .994 OPS
With Atlanta this year, his OPS was 1.063 in the 7th spot. That’s .200 better than at any other spot. He was used just fine.
Jake W.
October 6th, 2009
12:06 pm
Daslied
If the braves don’t find anyone else for RF to start the season i think they should keep Church since he can backup center as well. I know Omar can play out there but I would rather not see him in RF or CF. I would rather not see Prado out there either since he never has really played out there even though they say he does it in winter league. There is a reason they don’t put him out there much. Infante is your utility player but Church is better suited for multiple roles in the outfield over Prado and Infante. Seems the argument should be for why they should keep Church and not KJ based on the flexibility of our position players.
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
12:06 pm
As Our Pitching Staff Goes…
Vazquez…A+, Should’ve won 20 games and the CY Young and Maybe the best season as far as bunting goes as I’ve ever seen…
Double J A+, Ditto what I said about Vazquez and Winning the Cy Young, Thanks AWFense
D-Lo 15 wins but gets a C, Considerably a Bust in that I my theory that he sucks when he pitches in warm weather. Should’ve gone 18-10. The AWFense Screwed him over the first 6 weeks. When the Awfense finally gave him some support in the warmer months he didn’t earn his pay. People will be saying that his signing was a mistake 2 years from now “Bank On It!
KK, Gets a B only because he seemed to pitched against the opposing teams ace and held his own. However he tires out too easily, and his W-L record is deceptive. Should’ve had a(n) 11-11 record, Thanks AWFense!
Big Red AKA Hanson, For a Rookie Gets a A+. Had he made his rookie season other than this year with Happ he’d be the R.O.Y.
Better than Millwood was at his age
Medlen…Gets a B-, Pitched better than people think, especially for a rookie. I’d like to see him setting up next year
Huddy gets a B. Still a Good Pitcher but I don’t think he stays given the financial situation. I believe he’s a #2 starter now on a good team, a Number one on 24 others
Easy-E gets an A. Underrated acquistion in the Vazquez trade had a solid season…I wouldn’t mind seeing him set up (8th inning) next Year
Petey-Pabb (A) despite being overworked and I think he came back 2 weeks to early early in the season when his location was off. I wan’t him as closer next year
Gonzo and Soriano Just B’s both neither were shutdown closers. MFIKY had a Month stretch before the break where he was lights out but other than that both were streaky and both were victims of the long ball more than many would like to see from a closer/set-up tandem
Booney gets a B. Underrated as well, he did his job this year and I expect him to take the next step next year in the pen
Acosta gets a C+…Too Streaky, too inconsistant, I wouldn’t be suprised if he gets traded next year. He is the same pitcher now as he was a year ago…
Roman Gal
October 6th, 2009
12:09 pm
Tomahawkin- I agree with much of what you wrote. I disagree with Nitram being MVP, though. Sure, he’d be 2nd half MVP. But for me, Yunel is the team MVP.
D-Ross gets a B.
I’d say for the role Ross was brought in to fulfill, he get’s an A+. I’d have a hard time finding a better back-up catcher for BMac.
Still too many mental lapses which keeps him from getting an A.
He had a ton at the beginning of the year, but I feel like ever since he refused to talk to reporters that one time, he’s grown up. He didn’t make tons of stupid mistakes during the second half.
Schafer. Gets a C-, Overhyped Prospect still needs 2 years at AAA
2 years?! Are you kidding me?
Roman Gal
October 6th, 2009
12:12 pm
I have a man-crush on Kelly Johnson. Happy? Daslied
No one blames you. It’s so easy to love Kelly.
squintyeyed
October 6th, 2009
12:12 pm
Enter your comments here
g
wjones
October 6th, 2009
12:13 pm
“richbrave
October 6th, 2009
8:11 am
Offer GREG NORTON around, then cut him”
Norton is a free agent. We need to do nothing with him, other than wave good-bye.
“Easy-E gets an A. Underrated acquistion in the Vazquez trade had a solid season…I wouldn’t mind seeing him set up (8th inning) next Year”
That was Boone Logan who came over in the Javy trade, not EOF.
Lunatic Fringe
October 6th, 2009
12:14 pm
Daslied–my problem with your argument, is that if we are debating on where to play KJ, Omar, Church, Prado and Diaz—then we are not going to make the playoffs. These are all nice to have players if the rest of the roster is solid. The Braves roster is not (position players only). I am not sold on KJ, as are many on this blog, but I won’t argue with you that he is probably better than what he showed in 2009. How much better, and how much money they can afford to invest to get an answer will be one of Wren’s off-season decisions.
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
12:15 pm
Roman Gal
As Far as my saying that Schafer needs 2 years…
I should’ve said A year and a half. This year plus next year before Schafer is ready
Simply put he couldn’t make adjustments to MLB pitching which sets him back, and there wasn’t even flashes of him doing so this year in the extended time that Bobby kept him up here
Brad in MT
October 6th, 2009
12:15 pm
Jake W…good argument about Church, I don’t see anyway that they keep both Kelly and Church. I think Church will be an interesting decision, he didn’t play at all down the stretch, because of his back or because Diaz was hot. I think when he did play he was a guy who plays good defense and worked the count…I’d like to know how he figures into next year’s plans, if at all. It would seem his ability to play center would be valuable.
Roman Gal
October 6th, 2009
12:23 pm
I’ll have you know that you don’t have to be a teenaged girl to love you some Caucasian Clemente.
No, you just have to be certifiably insane.
Roman Gal
October 6th, 2009
12:27 pm
I should’ve said A year and a half. This year plus next year before Schafer is ready
I can’t agree with that. Do I think he should start next season in AAA? Yes. But, I don’t think he’s going spend the whole season down there. He was injured. We’ll just have to see how he recovers next year.
Capt. Morgan
October 6th, 2009
12:28 pm
Tomahawkin:
Are you giving grades for the coaching staff and manager? I’d like to see your thoughts on the job they all did this year.
Anders
October 6th, 2009
12:28 pm
Now that you know that about the psyroll Anders, outside of getting heathly, what do you see the mets doing to improve for next year and competing with the phils? (Jake W)
Assuming full health I think the Mets will look for a reliable #2 starter first. Then depending on what’s more available a power bat for 1st or LF. Whichever they don’t fill they’ll have Pagan or Murphy play again. Both should be bench players imo but they can’t fix everything at once. I’d rather get the LF because I think Pagan is a natural #4 outfielder and Murphy has some promise so I’d like to see him p;lay more. They’ll be other moves but I think those are the major ones.
squintyeyed
October 6th, 2009
12:30 pm
KJ is tried and proven….He is a backup at best.
-I dont think there is really a debate with Norton. He wont be back. You cant say Andruw would have been better than GA but he for darn sure would have been better than Norton! I mean really, he can play SOME defense and did hit a few homers.
-If you think Hudson is a B then you have a short memory. If he comes back, he’ll be our ace.
-Vazques is great. Really, reall, great. And that is why he should be trraded. He has tremendous trade value and our rotation is still the best in the division without him. Even if the Phills and Mets upgrade again. Teams dont want Lowe or KK bc they both are overpaid. Keep em. They are worth more as 4-5 starters than they are for trade. Trade Vazquez and one of our 8 or so B+ players for a bat that can play (you name the position….if he plays outfield, give em Church or Diaz, ect). We dont just need a McClouth/LaRoach caliber hitter. We need a #3 hitter. We should make the team an offer they cant refuse.
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
12:33 pm
As Far As Braves MGMT Goes…
F. Wren gets a B+ My only knock I have on him was he ignored the OF and offense in letting Abreu, Dunn, and Ibanez to sneak by. Abreu had 100 RBI’s and 30SB’s
I do give him props from last season because he improved the pitching staff as a whole…Our Bullpen, while not Lights out is one of the more underrated bullpens in the league…
The biggest Asterisk is overpaying D-LO…He got hustled into that Contract, but at least we didn’t get the overpaid Burnett….!
Plus I give Props on F. Wren at least on getting some value in Return for Francoeur…That trade turned our whole offense around…!
Bobby C…Everyone on here knows that I haven’t liked Cox’s style of managing since 2001. He gets A (C-)
This year was his worst…He was reluctant to make lineup adjustments, took his starters out who were dominating a game way too many times. Pitched to R. Howard with runners on expecting to see different results than 450 ft shots. Kept Norton on the Bench. Sent a Hot B. Conrad down during his hot midseason callup, Bench Esco for stupid/lack of hustle reasons (when everyone knows that there are others on the team that at one time didn’t go 100 percent). Abused certain relievers, LACK of A RUNNING GAME, COME ON! The Steroid era ended 4 years ago! USE A Running game
T.P. (C- as well) Needs to go, He’s too much like Bobby. His players seem to never make adjustmets to the opposing pitchers especially to the new crop of pitchers around the league now. T.P. seems to be another one of those sit back and wait for the 3-run homer coaches. Those days are over!
McDowell, (B+) While I have bashed him in the past he has moved up on my list
Snitker, B I only call out 3rd base coaches when they don’t read their players speed or the OF arms. On a serious note, we may’ve had the slowest team in the MMajors this year
Anders
October 6th, 2009
12:35 pm
Oh yeah, that #2 I’m hoping for is Mr. Hudson. But even he stays than either your guys unloaded another pitching chip or tied up money needed for offense in that overloaded pitching staff. Somethings gotta give – no?
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
12:35 pm
Who is the “Caucasian Clemente”? Francoeur?
Clemente was easily one of the top 6-8 players in the National League throughout the 1960s. I would be surprised if Francoeur is ever that good, at least for a full decade.
Clemente’s career AVG/OBP/SLG: .317/.359/.475
Francoeur’s career AVG/OBP/SLG: .271/.311/.432
squintyeyed
October 6th, 2009
12:36 pm
You guys who are complaining about the money the Braves spend….get real. Our highest paid player (hudson) sat most of the year. The team did prove in the end that it is enough money, which is good bc its gonna have to be. The trueth is they dont sell the tickets to justify more payroll. And dont try to play the chicken and egg game….i still remember the last 6 years we made the playoffs.
Paul Lentz
October 6th, 2009
12:37 pm
Kelly Johnson was activated on July 23rd. From July 23-29th, Kelly Johnson went 5 for 6. From July 30th to the end of the season, Kelly Johnson went 13 for 63 (.206).
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
12:37 pm
Roman Gal
True That in your last Post…
Schafer will be one of the First to be called up if one of our OF’s goes down to injury next year
He tore up the ball in S. Training is the reason why he got the job, but his offensive stats were against minor leaguers and pitchers trying to develop arm strength. They always say that Hitters are ahead of pitchers in S. Training, and Schafer was one of those hitters until Mid April…
dmack2027
October 6th, 2009
12:38 pm
Maybe the Braves resign LaRoche, play Kelly in RF until Heyward is ready, hoping that Kelly gets hot. Then you can trade Kelly as either an OF or a 2B for a prospect or another need.
DOB-Although Jordan Schafer’s clock started this year, if the Braves keep him in the minors next year to rehab (assuming he does not get called up), do the Braves lose a year of his services? Schafer’s wrist kept him from getting to fastballs. He is better than what he showed. He is the team’s long term CF, Nate will prob move to LF.
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
12:40 pm
P-Lentz
Good Call
If I’m not mistaking? Was sure one of those games when he was hot was that game at Chivez Ravine where he hit that pinch hit 3-run homer…?
Jake W.
October 6th, 2009
12:44 pm
Brad in MT, I think you’re right about Church. I think him not playing down the stetch was a combination of being hurt and Diaz being so hot. Assuming he is healthy I think given that he and KJ cost about the same that Church would be more valuable since he can play all outfield spots and that he can backup center. That was the problem early with Schafer, we couldn’t give the kid a rest because we had no real backup for him. Infante can back up all infield spots but 1st but Prado can backup 1st so we are good on the infield. KJ for his price and his position really doesn’t seem like a good option for a backup.
Anders, I figured the mets top priority would be their rotation and a good number 2 like you said. I think they have a solid bullpen and few things to tweak in the lineup if they are healthy. As the braves biggest need this offseason is improving our lineup the mets biggest need to me is improving their starting rotation.
Anders
October 6th, 2009
12:44 pm
He tore up the ball in S. Training is the reason why he got the job, but his offensive stats were against minor leaguers and pitchers trying to develop arm strength. (Tomahawkin)
Not to mention how many of the best pitchers were at the WBC. Daniel Murphy looked like George Brett in March too.
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
12:45 pm
F. Wren gets a B+ My only knock I have on him was he ignored the OF and offense in letting Abreu, Dunn, and Ibanez to sneak by. Abreu had 100 RBI’s and 30SB’s
Abreu had a fine season but he’s perhaps the most overrated player of 2009. He was essentially Yunel Escobar at the plate but instead of playing shortstop, he played corner-outfield.
Apparently you missed the discussion yesterday about Theo Epstein ignoring RBI and why all baseball fans should also ignore RBI when evaluating individual hitters.
Anders
October 6th, 2009
12:46 pm
Jake W – You know what scares me? The Phils didn’t play all that well and won fairly easily. If they really put a year together it’s gonna be tough. Their line up is monstrous when they’re clicking.
Imagine they get a real closer? (Wagner II perhaps?)
Jake W.
October 6th, 2009
12:47 pm
And we are loaded in the rotation. I’m hoping Hudson stays and Wren is able to find a taker for Lowe so that we can keep Vazquez. Someones going not named Hanson or Jurrjens though, thats for sure.
CB
October 6th, 2009
12:53 pm
Bowman has a blog up that tells there are teams interested in Kelly as a trade option,I would say get the best you can for him and wish him good luck.
Jake W.
October 6th, 2009
12:53 pm
Anders, I get what you are saying with the phils. Not to sound like i’m wishing bad luck on someone but their lineup has been remarkably healthy. It just seems like their big guns are always in there. Mets and Braves have had to deal with their fair share of injuries these past few years maybe the phils year is coming up.
I think this is the second best division in baseball outside the AL East. The Phils and their team, the braves with their rotation should be good next year, Marlins seem to always be there no matter what turnover, and a healthy Mets team. This division is tough. I think the Phils are good but because of this division it will be hard for them to just runaway with it next year.
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
12:54 pm
According to FanGraphs.com, Abreu was only the 11th most valuable everyday rightfielder in baseball.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=6&season=2009&month=0
And he was the 7th or 8th most valuable Angel.
http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Angels&pos=all&stats=bat&qual=0&type=6&season=2009&month=0
Abreu is getting a lot of credit because of his RBI and stolen bases. But his RBI total is clearly a result of the Angels having the 3rd best OBP in the American League. Chone Figgins deserves a lot of the credit for Abreu’s RBI total.
Anders
October 6th, 2009
12:55 pm
Jake W- Lowe isn’t going anywhere without a $10 mil check attached. Therefore, he’s not going anywhere. Tough decisions. Now they have all this dough tied up in Lowe and Chipper. Vasquez is going to want a new deal this off season too or he’ll test the waters next year – why not? You think he’s not worth AJ Burnett money? Probably more.
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
12:59 pm
Shaun…
I did Miss Theo’s talk…
But RBI’s are no more overrated than Batting Average when it comes to evaluating a players production…
I think Batting Average is the Most overrated stat other than W-L records…
Robert
October 6th, 2009
1:00 pm
“I don’t know, I always thought Dan Marino was pretty damn great. I guess not, though.”
Figures. Marino was “great” at doing the same kind of thing Cox excels at – putting up eye-popping regular season numbers. The great ones win championships. The pretenders put up pretty stat lines and make excuses
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
1:00 pm
“Chone Figgins deserves a lot of the credit for Abreu’s RBI total.”
Yeah, That’s why I have lusted for him for years!
Robert
October 6th, 2009
1:03 pm
“Robert-What are you going to do with yourself after Bobby retires next year?”
Once Cox goes, then discussing all the players and potential moves and signings will be relevent, and I will therefore join in the discussion
I’d bet what I’ll also do is watch contentedly while the Braves win the World Series in 2011
Jake W.
October 6th, 2009
1:04 pm
Hey anyone can have hope Anders, weak starting pitching market and if anyone of those big budget teams like the Yanks or Sox bomb in the playoffs and their pitching is whats to blame than its a possibility. Longshot one but a possibility none the less. I also think Javy has said he wants to figure out a way to stay here. He’s been around enough from team to team and it sounds like he feels he has finally found a home here. If I am other teams i’m hesitant on Javy given his past numbers but I’m willing to give Lowe the benefit of the doubt based on his past numbers. Will that mean they want to take on his contract,no but it will get him some looks. Like I said, who knows who will be the odd man out but it will be one of them not named Hanson and Jurrjens.
Robert
October 6th, 2009
1:06 pm
” Heck, just saying Durocher and Weaver were below average tells us the flawed logic of “only one World Series with lots of great teams.”
Weaver? Weaver was good at what, exactly? So he was perhaps second best at throwing a donkey sized tantrum resulting in his ejection. Let’s see – he was also great at NOT playing fundamentally sound baseball and in finishing second or third with the best pitching staff in the bigs
Earl Weaver – you might as well call him Cox Jr.
Robert
October 6th, 2009
1:07 pm
“Offer GREG NORTON around, then cut him”
THAT’s funny. My friend, you combine Norton and Cox, and there aint a major league, minor league, or pony ball team that would give you a used dip-cup and a dirty jockstrap for the pair
Robert
October 6th, 2009
1:09 pm
“Do any of you seriously believe that Bobby Cox would sit there and outright tell you that Kelly Johnson is toast? ”
No. I firmly disagree with letting grown men who are trying to pursue a career be distracted by the nonsense that issues forth from between Bobby Cox’s lips
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
1:12 pm
But RBI’s are no more overrated than Batting Average when it comes to evaluating a players production…
I think Batting Average is the Most overrated stat other than W-L records…
Batting average is problematic because it only tells part of the story, namely it only takes into account hits and not walks and not total bases. But at least it tells us something about what an individual hitter is/was capable of.
BBraves
October 6th, 2009
1:13 pm
Hope the Braves don’t keep Kelly and trade he for whatever they can get. He is the 3rd best 2nd baseman on the team and way to streaky of a hitter. If Prado is out or at another position would rather have Infante there. Wouldn’t mind seeing the Braves keep Church and see what he can do with a full year with the team. He is a decent outfielder that can play all three positions. Keeping Kelly as a utility player doesn’t make any sense due to the fact he can only play 2nd and LF.
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
1:16 pm
Robert, if you describe Weaver and Cox as donkeys, I’d hate to read what you think of someone like Manny Acta.
Oh, yeah. Regular season doesn’t matter. Only managers of teams who made it to multiple postseasons can be evaluated.
Mitchie-san
October 6th, 2009
1:17 pm
looks like Fredi is staying in Miami….
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10177232/Sources:-Marlins-will-retain-Gonzalez-as-manager
Random
October 6th, 2009
1:18 pm
McFann Ô (October 6th, 2009 10:01 am): “Why not? Everyone else is unjustly deprecatory of his defensive abilities.”
Don’t you roll your eyes at me, young lady.
I was referring to his defensive abilities as a hypothetical firstbaseman, not as a catcher.
Jeff R (October 6th, 2009 9:32 am): “I wouldn’t expect Wren or Cox to say anything but good things about Kawakami. His season was okay, but I don’t think he pitched up to his contract.”
According to Fangraphs, Kawakami was worth $8.1M to the Braves this season.
According to Cot’s, Kawakami’s 2009 salary was $7.667M.
Based on those figures, I think Kawakami pitched up to his contract.
“At Kawakami’s age, I don’t think a team has the luxury of a first season as a learning curve.”
Well, it’s too late to argue about that now — the Braves have already paid for Kawakami’s “first season learning curve”. Do you think that they should now dump him, and let some other team reap what they have sown? Makes no sense at all in the context of your own “first year learning curve” scenario.
“I certainly hope Wren shops him, perhaps as part of a package for a power bat.”
Kawakami will not be traded.
JP
October 6th, 2009
1:19 pm
Congrats Extend Hudson you win the award for the most ignorant post today. Your prize: 2010 Met’s season tickets.
Random
October 6th, 2009
1:21 pm
My bad, Jeff R — forgot to turn off the bold. Wasn’t fussin’ or yellin’ or nothin’.
Efrim
October 6th, 2009
1:22 pm
According to FanGraphs.com, Abreu was only the 11th most valuable everyday rightfielder in baseball.
I love FanGraphs. But I did have a doubletake when I saw that Ryan Sweeney was the 8th most valuable RF in baseball for 2009. Ryan Sweeney and his .293/.348/.407 batting line – which is ahead of Jeff Francoeur, Randy Winn, Melky Cabrera and Alex Rios. Of course, from a fielding perspective, he was second to only Ben Zobrist, so I guess that makes up for it.
AndyC
October 6th, 2009
1:24 pm
I don’t think anyone should be surprised that Bobby wants to give KJ another shot at second. We all know how loyal he is to his players. It’s one of his strengths but also one of his weaknesses. I think that loyalty cost him this season by sticking with Frenchy and KJ too long. If he had made that change sooner to Prado and Diaz I think we would be getting ready for our first playoff game. It took giving Frenchy another half season before Cox saw the light on him, I won’t be surprised if the same thing happens with KJ next season.
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
1:31 pm
Look, in spite of my unabashed love for KJ I realize that’s he likely a goner.
Since we’re also talking about Church – I’d rather they spend $2.26MM (the least he can be signed for) on KJ than $2.24MM (at the very least) on Church.
Church’s best full season was 2007 – .813 OPS with 15 HR, 43 2B and 70 RBI. Kelly’s best was 2007 – .831 OPS with 16 HR, 26 2B, 10 3B and 68 RBI. Church’s best is about average for a corner outfielder. Johnson’s best was well above-average for a second baseman. If they’re going to gamble with $2+MM I’d prefer that they do it with the high risk-higher reward player, as opposed to the lower risk-lower reward player.
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
1:31 pm
Efrim, Sweeney also played 57 games in center, which could also explain his value.
Kudos to you for not being one of those who says, “I can’t believe in a something that says Ryan Sweeney was more valuable than Bobby Abreu.” Instead you were skeptical about your own subjective beliefs about Sweeney and Abreu.
Bruce's Pearl
October 6th, 2009
1:34 pm
Here’s my reasoning behind keeping Kelly Johnson:
–Prado in the OF and KJ @ 2B is more desirable (to me) than Prado @ 2B and Church in the OF (full-time).
–If they strike out on getting a 1B, then Prado’s the likely candidate. KJ is preferable (IMO) to Infante full-time. Omar’s value is as a utility guy, not a locked-into-one-position guy. If Schafer stays in AAA Infante is the backup CF. If McLouth gets hurt, and Infante’s in CF, who plays second? Prado? Then who plays 1st? Diaz? Then who’s in LF/RF? I don’t know, because I confused myself.
Who’s on first? Whats on second? I dont know…third base!
David O'Brien
October 6th, 2009
1:36 pm
Freddie Freeman will not be the Braves’ opening day 1B in 2010. If he has a great year we could see him late in the season, perhaps, if Braves have an injury with whoever does start the season at the position. But otherwise, aim for 2011, I’d suggest.
Speaking of Freeman, he’s fourth in Baseball American’s Carolina League top 20 prospects released today. Some guy I’ve been hearing a lot about, big kid named Heyward, is No. 1.
1. Jason Heyward, of, Myrtle Beach (Braves)
2. Brian Matusz, lhp, Frederick (Orioles)
3. Pedro Alvarez, 3b, Lynchburg (Pirates)
4. Freddie Freeman, 1b, Myrtle Beach (Braves)
5. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3b, Kinston (Indians)
6. Casey Kelly, rhp, Salem (Red Sox)
7. Mike Montgomery, lhp, Wilmington (Royals)
8. Mike Moustakas, 3b, Wilmington (Royals)
9. Ryan Kalish, of, Salem (Red Sox)
10. Danny Espinosa, ss, Potomac (Nationals)
11. Danny Duffy, lhp, Wilmington (Royals)
12. Anthony Rizzo, 1b, Salem (Red Sox)
13. Chase D’Arnaud, ss/2b, Lynchburg (Pirates)
14. Jordan Danks, cf, Winston-Salem (White Sox)
15. Zach Britton, lhp, Frederick (Orioles)
16. David Lough, of, Wilmington (Royals)
17. Luis Exposito, c, Salem (Red Sox)
18. Che-Hsuan Lin, of, Salem (Red Sox)
19. Jeff Bianchi, ss, Wilmington (Royals)
20. Brent Morel, 3b, Winston-Salem (White Sox)
beekay
October 6th, 2009
1:49 pm
Thanks Mike..the free agent thing is so confusing. I mean you can turn it around and say what if they signed 3 type A’s but lost 2…if what you said is correct they would be penalized the same as if they lost nobody
P. W. Hjort
October 6th, 2009
1:49 pm
I was surprised by Moustakas’s ranking. I figured he’d be top-5 for sure.
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
1:59 pm
P.W., Looking over Moustakas’s numbers, they don’t really look all that impressive. His on-base in 2009 was .297, his average was .250 and he struck out 3 times as often as he walked. Those are ugly A-ball numbers, even for a 20-year-old pro.
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
1:59 pm
DOB:
Thanks for the list. Are we surprised that FREEMAN is not yet on the horizon in ATLANTA?
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
2:00 pm
Robert @ 1:00pm
“Marino was “great” at doing the same kind of thing Cox excels at – putting up eye-popping regular season numbers. The great ones win championships. The pretenders put up pretty stat lines and make excuses”
Wow, you’re even less informed about football. It cracks me up when people think a quarterback is overrated because they didn’t win a Super Bowl. No SINGLE player wins a championship in baseball or football. It’s even less likely in football than baseball. You want to know why Marino doesn’t have a title? Here:
Rushing offense league ranking average for his career: 22nd (season high of 13, and only 5 seasons in the top 20)
For contrast, the ranking average of Montana’s teams: 13th (including several in the top 5, AND including his years in KC)
Marino is arguably the greatest QB of all-time; at the very least he’s in the top 5. Don’t fault him because he played on very unbalanced teams.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
2:00 pm
Here’s my reasoning behind keeping Kelly Johnson:
–Prado in the OF and KJ @ 2B is more desirable (to me) than Prado @ 2B and Church in the OF (full-time).
–If they strike out on getting a 1B, then Prado’s the likely candidate. KJ is preferable (IMO) to Infante full-time. Omar’s value is as a utility guy, not a locked-into-one-position guy. If Schafer stays in AAA Infante is the backup CF. If McLouth gets hurt, and Infante’s in CF, who plays second? Prado? Then who plays 1st? Diaz? Then who’s in LF/RF? I don’t know, because I confused myself.
–Prado’s no HOF second baseman. He’s a very good hitter that can play multiple positions, which is fantastic. I’m fine with him at second, but I love that he can play 3rd, 1st and OF fairly decently.
–KJ’s better than 2009.
–I have a man-crush on Kelly Johnson. Happy?
Summary: You think he’s cute.
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
2:01 pm
RHR, men don’t admit that other men are cute. We say things like, “Hey, if we were cellmates…”
David O'Brien
October 6th, 2009
2:01 pm
Jurrjens got NL pitcher of the month. Nice to see him rewarded for a terrific finish to a strong season, an 18-20 win season — easily — if he’d gotten decent run support.
Random
October 6th, 2009
2:03 pm
Anders (October 6th, 2009 12:35 pm): “Oh yeah, that #2 I’m hoping for is Mr. Hudson. But even he stays than either your guys unloaded another pitching chip or tied up money needed for offense in that overloaded pitching staff. Somethings gotta give – no?”
Once more, with coherence, if you please.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
2:04 pm
lol daslied. gotcha. I’ll listen for that in future conversations with men.
Good for JJ. He is most certainly deserving.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
2:05 pm
Since the mets are going to spend so much money and all they should be calling about DLowe any day now.
P. W. Hjort
October 6th, 2009
2:07 pm
Shaun,
True, but scouts were still really impressed. And impressing scouts is, for me, what really matters in the lower minors as far as prospect stock goes.
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
2:08 pm
Robert @ 1:00pm
“Marino was “great” at doing the same kind of thing Cox excels at – putting up eye-popping regular season numbers. The great ones win championships. The pretenders put up pretty stat lines and make excuses”
That’s why Mark Lemke was great and Ryne Sandberg was a pretender, right? The great ones win championships. Th pretenders put up pretty stat lines.
Daybed Wagmoe
October 6th, 2009
2:09 pm
Congratulations Jurrjens!!
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
2:09 pm
RHR, also listen for things such as “Nice pants”, “Come over and watch Magnum, P.I.” and “Looks like you could use a cool one”.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
2:10 pm
looks like Fredi is staying in Miami….
For one more year. Heh heh heh.
Thanks for pissing him off, Marlins owner.
By the way, what brain trust owns the Marlins anyway? The pee guy – Lou Vales?
RHR
October 6th, 2009
2:11 pm
ha i laughed out loud at ‘come over and watch magnum p.i.’
Daslied
October 6th, 2009
2:12 pm
Shaun, sure – Lemke, Robert Horry, Scott Brosius, Larry Izzo…
Tomahawkin
October 6th, 2009
2:12 pm
RHR…
Word of Mouf from Mets Fans that are living in fantasy-land is that they are gonna get M. Holliday and John Lackey…I will be Damned if that happens…
D.O.B. Who Did You pick to win the Central and West this year…I do Remember yo picking the Mets to win the East and the Phils/Braves to play a 1 game playoff for the W.C.
Oh Yea…Mitchell called you a Sourpuss yesterday and I LMAO’d Who uses the word Sourpuss anymore (No Offense, Mitchell) but that is a word they used in the 50’s-60’s I guess…? lol
No one uses the term “Sourpuss” anymore…
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
2:12 pm
Shaun,
True, but scouts were still really impressed. And impressing scouts is, for me, what really matters in the lower minors as far as prospect stock goes.
Certainly impressing scouts matters a lot. But I’m guessing the scouts aren’t impressed by a .297 on-base, a .250 average and a K:BB ratio of 3:1. He’s still plenty young enough to turn it around but it would be interesting to find out how many guys who put up those numbers in A-ball became good major leaguers. There may very well be a few.