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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,403 comments Add your comment
P. W. Hjort
October 5th, 2009
10:14 pm
Anonymous “Regular” and other bloggers,
Never take a brethalyzer test if a police officer asks you to do so. It is your right to refuse and if the officer smells alcohol on your breath, you’re going to jail anyway. Just refuse the breathalyzer l (which is used exclusively for evidence in court) an get a good lawyer. You’ll be better off.
I think people that use the name section of the blog to make part of their point is stupid.
October 5th, 2009
10:15 pm
And uneccesary when yo have this huge, wide open box to type in.
N8
October 5th, 2009
10:19 pm
P.W.Hjort, how about just suggesting that jackasses don’t drink and drive? Seems like a better option to me.
Vinings Jim
October 5th, 2009
10:30 pm
sorry again, love…
Steve from OH
October 5th, 2009
10:33 pm
PWH–or, better yet, how about just not be an @sshole and drink and drive in the first place, huh?
Rock On........
October 5th, 2009
10:35 pm
I have to laugh at all the posts suggesting Mac play 1st, Chipper play 1st, etc etc. Reminds me of the outfield in Little League where you stick the kids that can’t play a radio but sure enough the ball finds them every time. A good defensive 1st baseman is huge. LaRoche is great there. Sign him Wren. Remember Frank you took my advice on Prado. I wouldn’t steer you wrong.
rico carty
October 5th, 2009
10:37 pm
I just read that Bobby is thinking of Prado in RF. Somebody please remind him that Henry Aaron and Willie Mays were not held back in the minors so a player of KJ’s caliber could get at bats. Those guys were ready at age 20. Not saying Heyward is the next Aaron or Mays, but he is going to be the best option we have.
Trade Lowe for a bag of balls (preferably new), resign Hudson for reasonable $$, trade McLouth. We in no way shape or form can compete with the Phillies unless we shake it up. I hope these 86 wins don’t lead management to think they are closer than they really are. Fred McGriff, where are you?
P. W. Hjort
October 5th, 2009
10:40 pm
Jeez, guys, I’m not endorsing drinking and driving. It’s aboslutely worth the $40 cab more than anything you’re willing to pay WRT a DUI. Plus drinking and driving is dangerous and illegal. I still, as the son of a DUI lawyer, believe it is important for every American citizen to know his rights.
Vinings Jim
October 5th, 2009
10:40 pm
Rock On….. come on, don’t try talk logic to people who think switching to first base (or right field or left field – or even from third base to ‘pinch hitter’) is so easy (and harmless) that anyone can do it…
rico carty
October 5th, 2009
10:41 pm
This may have been said before…maybe it is all negotiations/posturing, this inane comment that Prado would be moved to RF to make room for Johnson. Maybe an attempt to create some value through perception?
Vinings Jim
October 5th, 2009
10:46 pm
for heaven’s sake, idle speculation the day after the season ends about Kelly’s future does not mean that Bobby is seriously thinking of playing Prado in right field, anymore than idle speculation on the blog about acquiring [superstar player] means that he will be playing [superstar player's position] next year…
TnBrian(Vazquez ace 2010)
October 5th, 2009
10:49 pm
rico carty, Kelly does have a great attitude. You can see why Bobby just loves the Kelster.
Anybody else ever had the scam anitvirus Green AV constantly screw with your computer? I do & I know it’s a scam because when I search the internet for ways to get rid of anitvirus pop ups, it goes right to Green AV. It’s like it doesn’t want me to find out how to stop them from hacking or whatever they’re trying to do.
A-ville Ranger
October 5th, 2009
11:06 pm
Damn Bobby Cox, ”we can’t just give up on him” that’s Cox talking about Kelly Johnson.Wren has to step in if this team is going to improve.Keeping Johnson would at very best be a lateral move.Put Prado in right ? How in hell goes that make us better ?
Count de Monet
October 5th, 2009
11:10 pm
Somebody tell me Carroll was joking about Booby wanting to give Kelly “Bleeping” Johnson another chance at second. Earlier I joked about the Donk wanting to bring back Nort because he got a hit yesterday. Looks like Donk was impressed with KJ on Sunday.
I thought we were finally rid of that loser K Bleeping J.
Count de Monet
October 5th, 2009
11:10 pm
Thank you A-ville…well said
U Kno Who
October 5th, 2009
11:14 pm
Old dudes rule.
Damn right.
Steve from OH
October 5th, 2009
11:15 pm
You guys are gonna hate me for this, but whatever. Since his return from the DL (July 23), Kelly has hit….261/.358/.493=.851. That ain’t bad, even all of you can admit that…I hope…
Tom Glavine
October 5th, 2009
11:16 pm
Old dudes rule.
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don’t.
Smoltzy
October 5th, 2009
11:17 pm
Old dudes rule.
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don’t.
You can always try a new kingdom.
A-ville Ranger
October 5th, 2009
11:18 pm
One more comment on KJ.I’ve never seen another big leaguer who looked scared at the plate like Kelly does.The guy just doesn’t have the moxie for the bigs.I’ll take Escobar’s cockiness any day over somebody afraid of the game.
RHR
October 5th, 2009
11:20 pm
Embrace your man crush, Steve. Go ‘head.
Vinings Jim
October 5th, 2009
11:20 pm
Steve – may not be the night for logic – going to bed before my girl in LA gives me a hard time for trying the same thing (I just read a post to her before I posted iy, and we agreed it was pointless to try tonight)
RHR
October 5th, 2009
11:21 pm
cab – HA on the photoshop. I mean, you didn’t have to say you had photoshop.
I'M A MAN ON A MISSION
October 5th, 2009
11:21 pm
Form DOB: “Old dudes rule”
That’s what kinky ladies say
Vinings Jim
October 5th, 2009
11:22 pm
iy = it
A-ville Ranger
October 5th, 2009
11:22 pm
Another comment on KJ.I can’t recall another big leaguer who looked scared at the plate like he does.Give me a cocky guy like Escobar any day over somebody who obviously doesn’t have the moxie for the bigs.
David O'Brien
October 5th, 2009
11:25 pm
The last part of what Cox said after mentioning Prado OF possibility today was this: “We have not sat down [and discussed this], and we will do that on the 13th. I’m not suggesting anything [is in the works].”
Tomas
October 5th, 2009
11:27 pm
How about this. The tigers have been looking to trade Magglio Ordoñez since the offseason. He obviously isn’t the guy he used to be, but at the end of this season he started to find his stroke and finished the season with a 300 average. He is owed 18 million in his last year of his contract Lowe is owed 15mill/per year for the next 3 years. Tigers need starting pitching, maybe a mutual exchange of salary dumps might be beneficial for both parties.
Lets be honest, the Braves will not get much for Lowe, and the Tigers are thinking the same thing with Magglio who hit 352 vs lefties, and finished with an 800 OPS, but is making 18 million next year and only had 8 homers. I really think next season will be totally different for him, the WBC really screwed him up. He hit 374, with 4 homers and 20 RBI’s a 438OBP, and a 528SLG the second half of the season.
David O'Brien
October 5th, 2009
11:28 pm
If I’m not mistaken, didn’t we have a certain Vikings-hater here who was completely and utterly dismissive of Brett Favre’s performance in a win a few weeks ago? What say you tonight, my friend?
David O'Brien
October 5th, 2009
11:31 pm
Tomas, take a look at what Lowe did against American League lineups this year, lineups where you couldn’t catch you breath with a hitter or two. He got obliterated. Tigers scouts would certainly know that, and the stats are right there for anyone to see.
oldbrave
October 5th, 2009
11:36 pm
keep hudson, hanson ,Javy and JJ . Resign Laroche and how about bring the old brave back who can still rake the ball Germanine Dye. If Heyward is ready great if Not there is still Matt.
Nate Mcclouth
Prado
Chipper
Mccann
Dye
Heyward/Diaz/
Laroche
Escobar
could be great lineup
Random
October 5th, 2009
11:37 pm
Bobby Hill (October 5th, 2009
5:48 pm): “I’m curious what kind of a grade you all would give Frank Wren at this point. . . . In the end I think Wren gets a solid “B,” but I certainly wouldn’t nominate him for executive of the year or anything. What do you guys think?”
You mention “executive of the year”, but you bring up moves made over a year ago.
Do you want to limit the discussion to just the past offseason thru today, or look at his whole Braves GM career?
Let’s start with the former — just this past year. That would exclude his trades for Jurrjens, Gorkys Hernandez, Infante and Will Ohman (admittedly, all sterling, giving up only Renteria and Ascanio) which occurred in the 07-08 offseason.
And as far as Tex for Kotchman (from, not to the Angels), the judgment was that 2+ years of Kotchman (08, 09, 10) were a surer shot than the draft picks the Braves would get when Kotchman signed as a free agent with a new team. And I believe that might have been correct, though additional reconstruction would be necessary. But don’t you remember how the Brewers were crying that they got screwed, because they didn’t get adequate compensatory draft picks from the Yankees, since the Yankees also signed Tex and Burnett as free agents last year. The Braves may have found themselves similarly screwed if they had elected to take the picks instead of trading for Kotchman. You say that “a guy similar [to] Kotchman could have been added pretty easily over the offseason.” Probably not at Kotchman’s salary. Could the Braves have gotten another or a better player for Tex than Kotchman? It’s infinitely debatable, and they did try to get (and thought they had gotten) Jason Bay, but bottom-line, they needed an adequate 1B to replace Tex.
But all that was also prior to this past year, and not within our current scope.
But to continue with Kotchman, earlier this season Wren made the determination that a half a season with LaRoche was better than the remaining season and a half with Kotchman. Imo, Wren was right (though I protested like a hippie at the time). And if the Braves had made the playoffs this year, I believe few indeed would second guess the trade for LaRoche.
Vazquez/Logan, Kawakami, Lowe, Ross, O’Flaherty, Anderson — all offseason pick-ups which for the most part have all worked out well or better. Only Lowe has truly disappointed — but only in the 1st year of a 4-year contract. Jury’s still out on that (as well as on the others, of course, but that’s also beyond our current scope).
“Bad PR” — Peavy, Furcal, Burnett, Griffey, Smoltz, Glavine — I would not even consider as a factor in judging Wren’s performance. Only the bottom-line results on the ground should matter — PR is too often subject to the spin cycle. Wins and losses, players’ performance or nonperformance — imo, that’s what matters.
McLouth, Church, LaRoche — all great mid-season moves, demonstrating Wren’s ability to adjust, adapt and make the most of fluid or volatile situations.
“Looking back its pretty clear that the Braves didn’t have an offense capable of contending when the 2009 season started. Its also pretty clear that the current logjam in the rotation, and limited financial flexibility was created when Wren signed or traded for four stating pitchers over the winter. The team is now stuck with Lowe’s huge contract, and the team can’t afford to keep Vazquez and Hudson. Not the mention that fact that the team now has a hole in LF and 1B and closer, with very limited funds.”
I disagree — you assume facts that were not in evidence at the time, or even now. Wren didn’t know that Schafer, Francoeur, Johnson and Jones would all disappoint so badly. We don’t know yet that we can’t afford both Vazquez and Hudson. We don’t know yet that Lowe cannot be traded. And as far as SP “logjam”, Wren picked up 3 SPs, not 4 (Glavine doesn’t count since he was quickly dispatched with little financial impact). And that was necessary ’cause no way at the time that Hudson could have been counted on to fully recuperate. And we don’t know how much the Braves can spend on 1B/LF until we see what salaries they actually shed this offseason.
“Did Wren really feel like an outfield of Schafer, Diaz, Frenchy, and Anderson was ready to propel him to the promise land?”
You’d have to figure “yes”, wouldn’t you? I would. Was his expectation realistic? I think so, even with lowered expectations for Francoeur, who disappointed beyond all reasonable expectation, as did Schafer. Anderson more or less met, and Diaz exceeded expectations.
“Did he really expect Johnson, Kotchman, and Escobar at all hit 20 HR’s?”
I don’t know that he actually expected that. Do you?
“Why did Wren seem so willing to give huge contracts to questionable pitchers, and so reluctant to spend on offense?”
‘Cause he was counting on Schafer, Francoeur, Johnson, Jones and McCann to all perform more or less as reasonably expected, which they didn’t. And Prado and Infante not to be injured, which they were. Etc.
“How might things have gone if Wren had signed Adam Dunn instead of Kawakami, and traded Kotchman for a setup man?”
Who knows — such hypotheticals are beyond my current scope.
“In the end I think Wren gets a solid “B,” but I certainly wouldn’t nominate him for executive of the year or anything. What do you guys think?”
I think solid “A” to “A+”. I think NL 2009 Executive of the Year.
Winterville
October 5th, 2009
11:39 pm
Not saying you are right or wrong about the Tigers DOB but aren’t those the same Tigers who gave D-Train a 30 million dollar extension? Anything is possible. They also gave us Jair.
cdog
October 5th, 2009
11:41 pm
NEXT MAKE SURE WE ARE MINUS KELLY JOHNSON, RAFAEL SORIANO, MANNY ACOSTA, MATT DIAZ, GREG NORTON, DEREK LOWE AND IF POSSIBLE, BOBBY COX. ALL OF THESE ARE LOSERS
santa3247
October 5th, 2009
11:42 pm
Hi! Long Time No See
I’m Seong-Ho,Yoon living in Jinhae City Southkorea now. Right foot on the sea Left foot on the land continuously.
Braves failed at reaching postseason?^*^ And How about Kawakami’s direct playing at Major?^*^ Mastuzaka Daiske was pitcher like Cy-Young in Japan.
And John Smoltz and Tom Glavine gone, Tim Hudson may go, and St.Louis Cardinals can use this three pitchers I think. Looking Smoltz in Cardinals, no difference at all.
And my fight with Babylon Emphire through Neutron & Resonance Schmann kept going and from 21th September 2009 Year7 began.
And I found after all Seven Arch-Angels, but I don’t know who they are. And another two people. How can I know this fact?
Because their force of shouting Spell is over the mine. Withouth any radiating the light of Messiah in mind’s eye and any shouting spell from me, more wonderful judgment theseday happening in Southkorea and past Yamato Emphire’s land(China, Taiwan, Japan, Korean Peninsla,etc)
Time is near! Strangely not 7people but 9people I checked.
Be ready for worldwide disaster & collapsing of Neutron and Babylon Emphire, from now on. You got it? Do simulate!!
May the force of Messiah be with you
Tomas
October 5th, 2009
11:42 pm
The Braves should definitely give Kelly a shot, but definitely not at the expense of Prado. He can platoon with Matt Diaz. Kelly plays second, and Prado moves to left field, and Diaz to right depending on who they’ll have to play RF.
Kelly isn’t you’re prototypical platoon guy, given he finishes with higher averages against lefties. But throughout his career the majority of the power comes against righties(except this season), so at least for a month(so Heyward doesn’t become arb eligible in 2 years) they should play it like that and see if it works. If it does work, that means his trade value would go up, and they could trade him and get something in return. That’s what I would do.
oldbrave
October 5th, 2009
11:48 pm
who ever says Diaz is a loser in plain STUPID
Random
October 5th, 2009
11:49 pm
DAP (October 5th, 2009 8:11 pm): “like all the other guys do is hit the ball. c’mon.”
I think McCann was implying only that that’s all that HE would be able to contribute, if he weren’t catching.
And maybe he’s right. Or maybe he’s just unjustly self-deprecatory of his defensive abilities.
Random
October 5th, 2009
11:55 pm
helpless soul, mexican-brave –
I dearly hope that your references to S____ do not summon S_____3247.
Anybody here remember him?
jed
October 6th, 2009
12:01 am
“Just curious if any of the Norton bashers got a chance to go over and read the personal story on the Braves website about him and his family. Norton has indeed had a terrible year, but I just wonder if the thoughtless folks on this blog ever give any consideration to a player’s personal situation.” –wayne in utah
on your recommendation, i went and read the story. i was thinking maybe some tragedy had befallen norton that we didnt know about. maybe one of his kids was in a car accident and clinging to dear life on a respirator all season. maybe his wife had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and had a 2-month life expectancy. what could the tragedy be that wayne was warning us about?
turns out nothing. norton just had a sh!t year and his family was loading up the gear and heading back home to denver– norton planning on retirement, his wife crying because she’ll miss her friends in atlanta. buck up, wayne! this is professional baseball. norton played 13 years of it. he’ll retire a very wealthy man. there are far worse fates! save your empathy for those people with families who have been laid off from their $10 an hour/no health insurance jobs! and if fans want to come on a braves blog and b!tch & moan about having a PH hitting .140, they have every right. we’re part of the reason norton and his .145 average will retire a wealthy man.
jed
October 6th, 2009
12:07 am
santa — very funny! and very well-done, except you give yourself away at the end with the reference to babylon. i doubt south koreans would be making that reference.
TnBrian(Vazquez ace 2010)
October 6th, 2009
12:19 am
Maybe the only way to trade Lowe is for Atlanta to pay some of his salary. What a pain in the a** his big contract has already become… but maybe not.
jed
October 6th, 2009
12:20 am
i’ll never underestimate cox’s love of kelly johnson, and the ridiculous lengths cox will go to to have him in the everyday lineup, but even i have to suspect that this latest valentine from bobby to kelly is a ploy to drum up interest from other teams.
Random
October 6th, 2009
12:22 am
Erratum: “But don’t you remember how the Brewers were crying that they got screwed, because they didn’t get adequate compensatory draft picks from the Yankees for Sabathia, since the Yankees also signed Tex and Burnett as free agents last year.”
jed (October 6th, 2009 12:07 am) –
Don’t encourage him.
(Damm, my warning was too late. Well, at least it’s not my fault.)
Jim
October 6th, 2009
12:27 am
Check out the new Atlanta Braves Blog, http://www.fanhuddle.com/atlantabraves
Part of the Fan Huddle Sports Network
monty
October 6th, 2009
12:32 am
You can’t platoon Kelly because he hits LH pitching much better than RH pitching.
jed
October 6th, 2009
12:56 am
i’d put kelly johnson and garrett anderson in a platoon. in afghanistan.
monty
October 6th, 2009
1:12 am
McCann: Risk of serious injury catching, knees wearing out, Javy lopez who was in impeccable shape had great numbers and one day he woke up and couldn’t hit a lick. MAybe it was the juice? Maybe it was the catching that caught up to him? All I know is if Brian has a 15 year career catching and misses 30 games per year for rest or minor injuries x 4 AB’s per game = 120 less AB’s per year than playing 1B. x15 years = 1800 fewer AB’s for his career. at a rate of 1 HR per every 20-25 AB’s, he’s looking at 72-90 fewer Hr’s not to mention doubles,rbi, and the occassional triple! And also his OBP at .390 and runs scored. Anyone remember the catcher we had back in 1991 who broke his leg (Olson I believe)and I was there the night that Johhny Estrada got pummled. Moving McCann to first insures we could go out and sign a very big Rh bat.because it frees up the 7-8 million we have to pay for Roachy. So while you may be trading a 30 HR bat in McCann for Laroche’s 30 HR’s it;s much more than that you free up a sizable bit of mula. Ross is a better defensive catcher than Brian and will hit as many Hr’ as Brian, And while I certainly wouldn’t expect Brian to win a gold glove I believe he’s just as quick as LaRoche in his first step or two and could certainly transition into a better defensive 1b than the beheemoth Dunn that alot of people were clamoring for. I know this won’t happen anytime soon but there will come a day he will either have to make the move or end up being a designated hitter in the AL.
nolie
October 6th, 2009
1:19 am
And if Cub’s GM Jim Hendry and his cadre of minions were listening, they’d have been chortling, making jokes, and mocking Theo with exaggerated clown faces, and shouting with glee “Oh yeah…OBP is more important than RBI’s. HA HA HA HA!”
The exact point I was making. There are teams out there that do not place much emphasis on neo-stats.You can atch who they draft and who they trade for or free agent. Ricciardi just got fired anf Toronto is likely to lessen it’s reliance on then since they seem to think it led to bad contracts.
C’mom, I mean if it was so important they’d put it on the scoreboard right?
N8
October 6th, 2009
1:20 am
“If I’m not mistaken, didn’t we have a certain Vikings-hater here who was completely and utterly dismissive of Brett Favre’s performance in a win a few weeks ago? What say you tonight, my friend?” DOB
I’m not sure if you’re talking about me or not. But ask yourself two questions (and let me preface by saying that Favre was impressive tonight – other than the IDIOTIC decision to throw on 3rd down late in the game – whether it was his decision or not):
1) Who was more impressive? Aaron Rodgers on the road, facing Jared Allen and THAT defense?
2) or Brett Favre behind THAT offensive line at home?
Like I said. Can’t take anything away from the old man. But I learned a LOT MORE about Aaron’s ability and toughness than I did about Brett Favre a week away from being 40 (I think ESPN mentioned that once or three hundred times?).
I don’t dislkie Favre the player? How can you. I think he’s a wishy, washy, whiner who strung the Packers along too long, and enjoyed the spotlight of his “farewell” speeches. Then when the Packers decided that they had to move on, he wants to pretend that the Packers had it out for him.
The only thing more lame than that notion, was Jordan’s HOF speech a few weeks back.
But I can tell you this much. If Favre had to play tonight against the pass rushing of Jared Allen with a backup LT, he doesn’t win this game either. Especially if it was in GB.
Believe me. I got to watch for a few years what Jared Allen can do to the best LT’s in the game with a crowd behind him.
Besides. Aren’t the Williams DT’s supposed to be suspended right now? Wonder if that would have made a difference.
But you just keep on thinking Favre will lead them to the title. This is the Minnesota Vikings we’re talking about.
But yeah. Favre was great. NOW what is going to motivate him with this game out of the way? LOL
When Favre the “gunslinger” comes back to haunt the Vikings later in the year, or in the playoffs by forcing a pass where it doesn’t belong, we’ll talk. No QB has ever won a playoff game at the age of 40 (I think ESPN also mentioned that a couple of thousand times too?). You know why? Because no 40 year old QB has ever had a defense like the Vikings, and the best RB in the NFL.
If Favre was so damn good, how come the Packers didn’t win more titles? How come the Jets didn’t win last year? Because at the end of the day, despite his numbers, stats and freak of nature plays, he usually pushes it too far and does something that causes his team (usually in position to lock a victory down), to choke one out when it matters.
Anyhow. Not hatin’. Just sayin’. This little “jabbing” session we’ve got going on right now (with you taking the first 4 rounds), is fun. Just be aware that at any moment in the later rounds, Favre has that uncanny ability to knock himself out, while the other trainer is damn near ready to throw in the towel. Seen it done too many times. Followed the Vikings/Packers rivalry as close as any of the Chief’s rivalries in the past 15 years.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
1:21 am
Kelly plays second, and Prado moves to left field,
What has Kelly done to deserve to play 2nd over Prado? Absolutely not. I will be extremely disappointed in Wren if that happens. Kelly was given every opportunity to be the braves 2B and he couldn’t do it. Prado should not get treated like the red headed step child here. Of course, he loves to play and he doesn’t care where, he would move to RF, LF, CF, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, C, P, whatever got him playing time he would play there. He busted his butt this season and it amazes me how people are just like ‘oh lets give KJ another shot, hes too good to let go! we’ll just put Prado wherever. Maybe he’ll take an usher job at the ted” …. I will never ever understand. The only thing I can come up with is that maybe he reminds some of you of yourself or something. The player you could have been. LOL.
nolie
October 6th, 2009
1:27 am
hat are we gonna’ do? No SCHAFER? OMG. We’re doomed (Rich)
we need to all be there for Roman Gal in her time of stress.
N8
October 6th, 2009
1:45 am
Hey DOB, did you catch up on House yet? Watch tonight’s episode?
That show just keeps reinventing itself in my opinion. The past few years I’ve figured going into the new seasons that it’s going to drop off a bit, and I think it just keeps getting better.
David O'Brien
October 6th, 2009
2:04 am
Anyhow. Not hatin’. Just sayin’. — N8
Actually, you are indeed hating. It’s practically eating you alive. If I’d known you were gonna go on to such lengths, I wouldn’t have said anything to torment.
Oh, and again, it comes to this, that most sophisticated of evaluation standards in any sport:
If Favre was so damn good, how come the Packers didn’t win more titles?
I don’t know, I always thought Dan Marino was pretty damn great. I guess not, though.
N8
October 6th, 2009
2:34 am
Come on DOB. Lighten up a bit. You can’t possibly fathom what it’s like to ENJOY watching Favre eat up the Vikings and what it did to the locals up here, and NOW have to listen to the people that griped about him and hated him for so long, talk about him like he’s a god send and the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Loved the guy for ever and a day. Still like Favre the player. What he did to the Packers 3 seasons in a row with his retirement, and how he “played” the Jets (so he could go play for the Vikings and stick it to the Packers), is criminal and he shouldn’t be praised for it, imo.
But yes. If it makes you feel better, I thought he played a helluva game tonight, between he and Aaron they gave the country another great MNF game.
But seriously, how many seconds did he have on that one play to go through his reads 2, 3 maybe 4 times. His offensive line is INCREDIBLE. And the D-Line of the Vikings (juicers included) is THE best in the NFL, and possibly one of the greatest ever. Flip the two QB’s tonight, and Aaron eats the Packers defense alive tonight. And I still believe that Jackson would have this team 3-1 just the same.
Nobody (outside of Brees, Manning #1, Manning #2 and Brady) make that throw that won the Vikings the game last week. But then again, that might have been one of the greatest game ending catches in NFL history, by a guy that they got of the streets earlier in the week.
If Brett Favre didn’t make that throw last week, ESPN and the rest of the free world would be talking about how the 49r’s defense choked that game away.
I’ll concede that the guy’s still got it. But that doesn’t mean I have to like it, or HIM.
A QB in the NFL is only as good as his O-Line, the running game and the defense that allows him to “win games”. The 2003 Chiefs in the playoffs that year took the Colts (who went on to win the SB) to the limit. Both offenses were incredible that season. Only playoff game in NFL history where both teams could have suited up without an active punter.
Two years later without two HOF lineman on the team anymore, and Priest Holmes on the shelf (Larry Johnson was a powerful runner that year – but has to be one of the WORST pass protecting HB’s in the history of the NFL), Trent Green looked pathetic. I’m not saying Trent Green is/was Brett Favre. What Favre has done (never missing a start) is ridiculously silly-good.
But you don’t need me to tell you what I witnessed, which was one of the greatest offensive units over a 4-5 year stretch (from 02-05 the Chiefs were every bit as good offensively speaking, as the Colts and Patriots), what a great O-Line can do to put up points, and what a great defense can do to relieve pressure from what the QB has to do to succeed.
Or did Matt Cassel all of the sudden become the leader of an 0-4 team? I mean, after all he led the Pats to 11 W’s last year. Why is he not doing as well in KC this year? Dude has less than 2-3 seconds to get rid of the ball. ZERO chance to get to his 2nd read, much less the 3rd and 4th. With that running game and that O-Line, Favre will have ALL DAY to pick defenses apart. And when he fails to do so. Jared Allen and Winfield will pick up the slack.
Like I said. Not hating. I hate the team (Vikings). Pains me to listen to the propaganda on a daily basis and pick up a paper and have to read about them. You think ESPN blows the Yanks and Red Sox out of proportion with their coverage?
I’m not a dis-believer in what Favre can do. Just a believer in what having Adrian Peterson and what is referred to around here as the “Minnesota Moving Company” (their O-Line’s nickname), could do for literally ANY QB in the NFL right now. I’m telling you. That team didn’t NEED Brett Favre to win the NFC North, and probably didn’t need him to make a run to win the NFC. If they get homefield advantage in the playoffs, there isn’t a team in the NFC that’s going to win in the “Mall of America Field at the HHH” (how lame is that?). Not the Giants. Not the Falcons. Not the Cowboys. Not the Cardinals. Not the 49r’s. Nobody.
Brett Favre joining the Vikings, would be the equivalent of David Wright leaving the Mets to play for the Braves, and all of the sudden the MIB blog would be talking about how great he is (which he is). The only thing that I can think of Atlanta natives relating to it, is when Prime Time went to play for the hated 49r’s after battling with Jerry Rice all those years. Blasphomy I tell you. LOL
Am I hoping in the end that I’m right about Favre so I can play “gotcha” with you? Sure. But being correct in our little battle of who’s right, will come a distant 2nd in hoping the VIKINGS fail so I don’t have to paint my house purple just to fit in with my neigbors.
Thought we were having “fun” here? I guess you’re the only one allowed to play “gotcha”, huh?
Braveheart
October 6th, 2009
4:36 am
RHR is kicking dirt all over the penny loafers and khakis of the Kelly Johnson lovers.
ncscoots
October 6th, 2009
6:32 am
RHR is kicking dirt all over the penny loafers and khakis of the Kelly Johnson lovers.
That’s OK, the scuffed-and-wrinkled look is tres hip, LOL. Might go that way today myself.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
7:38 am
Ha. Well damn. In the 2 years I’ve been reading here he gets defended and made excuses for more than anyone ever. By far. You guys should be embarrassed. You’re worse than a bunch of Francoeur loving teenage girls.
bob
October 6th, 2009
7:54 am
Enter your comments here: keep Prado at 2nd. He and Escobar make great combo up the middle, plus you’ve got Lamouth in center. If you keep Kelly Johnson play him in left field. He’s better outfielder than 2b. Keep Diaz in outfield, either in left or right, unless Heyward comes up.
resign Laroche and tell him in April that it’s really July. He always hits better in the 2nd half.
Keep all pitchers, unless you can trade Kawakami.
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
8:11 am
Offer GREG NORTON around, then cut him. Trade KJ. Trade LOWE if you can, although I think 2009 spoke for itself, and loudly, around the league. If not trade KK. Keep VASQUEZ, although I worry about him getting a LOWE-type contract then falling apart afterward. Somehow, I don’t feel that way about HUDSON. I suppose I should as he’s the same age as JAVY. Maybe because he a known quantity in my little BRAVES universe.
Robert
October 6th, 2009
8:15 am
“Seems all the data points to him being at least an average manager, but probably better. Maybe you have data that you’ve kept from us that would make the answer to this question obvious”
All the data you want to look at maybe. I say that delivering one world championship when you have the best team in baseball about 8 times is well below average.
Steve from OH
October 6th, 2009
8:23 am
RHR–yeah, Prado to right and Kelly at 2B makes absolutely zero sense…
Billy Walsh
October 6th, 2009
8:25 am
If Laroche could ever hit during the first half of the season that would solve the power problem for the braves. As much as I like Kelly, the braves have to let him go. Prado and Escobar do make a nice tandem up the middle. As far as the pitching…I wouldn’t give up on Lowe, nor would I trade Vazquez. KK’s solid ERA, his quality starts, and his reasonable contract should generate some interest. I would sign Laroche and Gonzalez..and offer both Vazquez and Hudson new deals. In addition, I would let Johnson, Anderson, Church, and Soriano walk. I would put Heyward in RF, keep McLouth in center (I can’t imagine Schafer being ready) and have Diaz in LF. Is it perfect? No. However, I would not trade a starting pitcher or any other piece to bring in someone like Dye. I would look to strengthen the bullpen before I would look to add a bat.
richbrave
October 6th, 2009
8:26 am
NEEDS:
1- One bench bat replacement for NORTON.
2- Another if KJ is traded.
3- Move one of VASQUEZ, LOWE, KAWAKAMI, HUDSON.
4- A power hitter for the four hole.
HOPES:
McCANN’s eye-sight returns to normal, and CHIP’s bat recovers from the H1N1 it caught.
WISHES:
1- McLOUTH becomes a solid .300 hitting lead-off man. That’s probably asking too much, but we’re just wishing here.
2- BOBBY doesn’t continue waiting for CHIPPER’s bat to recover in the event its more of the same next year, and he fills the three-hole properly.
3- McCANN can finally move to the five slot because the new corner OF’er is tearing the cover off the ball.
Lew
October 6th, 2009
8:27 am
RichBrave-Didn’t we just sign Norton to an 09 contract? He should be a Free Agent right now. I’d seriously doubt that they would offer him a new contract.
Lew
October 6th, 2009
8:29 am
Robert-What are you going to do with yourself after Bobby retires next year? Turn into a puddle of grease like a Wet Wicked Witch?
Braveheart
October 6th, 2009
8:35 am
Ha. Well damn. In the 2 years I’ve been reading here he gets defended and made excuses for more than anyone ever. By far. You guys should be embarrassed. You’re worse than a bunch of Francoeur loving teenage girls.
I take great offense at RHR calling me a Francoeur loving teenaged girl
Kevin
October 6th, 2009
8:49 am
Oh we Optimistic we need fire TP now n get a new hittin coach say ED Yost here…are its wait till 2011 again….and the idiot cox feels kelley johnson is his Man he one great season did he forget he cost us a series with the sillies few year ago…I guess Pickin his Nuts n nose he forgot….and his pal chipper jones non-supportin role ever by a 3rd baseman 23 errors is un-called for! we lost 7 in row all for to washington should had been the end for TP n the coach’s at 1st n 3rd base n strenght coach to….I’m sorry no excuse for lose 7 in row that the manager fault n he should go….but he be back in dugout hollarin and nose pickin again!
Rock On......
October 6th, 2009
8:56 am
It amazes me that after almost a day of the Prado-to-outfield talk we are actually beginning to defend such logic. Let me defend this to you. This team is damn lucky to have Prado to be able to spell gimpy Jones and vacate 2nd base, however, as constructed the Braves have no choice. In a different vein it hurts the Braves to do that. A strong middle infield combo is the most important defensively. Takes communication and work. Escobar and Prado are a perfect fit there and they are coming around well even though they have not worked a full season together. Anytime you move Prado off 2nd base(no he is not better at 3rd) you are screwing with the chemistry.
Per the paragraph above and after giving it more thought I feel Wren will acquire some help for Jones at 3rd and leave Prado alone at 2nd. I would never mess with my infield defense. Stay consistent and it helps the player to boot. Prado is a very good contact hitter with some pop but not a 20-30 homer guy we need in the outfield.
Exactly where the Braves would play Prado in the OF is another mystery. Assuming we get the “big bat” for LF and McClouth in CF one would have to bet that Heyward will man RF assuming his steady progression or if he isn’t ready for some reason then Diaz. But putting Prado in any OF conversation is simply overthinking the situation and dicey at best, ludicrous at worst.
The Love Child of Dale Murphy and Johnny Cash
October 6th, 2009
9:12 am
My question for 2010: Does Chipper Jones return to the three hole in the line-up?
My opinion: Yunel Escobar is probably the hitter on the team most suited for that role. I think it is now time for Chipper to drop down to the fifth or sixth (depending on offseason additions) spot in the order. Thoughts?
Anders
October 6th, 2009
9:12 am
Rock On- The whole Prado to the outfield talk is a lame attempt by the Braves to give the impression that they still have a spot for KJ and value him. (Regardless of what his butt being nailed to the bench during the whole WC drive said in reality) They’re trying to see if they can create a market for KJ before they have to just cut him loose for nothing. This will blow over when that happens. Don’t lose any sleep over it. Prado’s not moving anywhere imo.
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
9:24 am
“Seems all the data points to him being at least an average manager, but probably better. Maybe you have data that you’ve kept from us that would make the answer to this question obvious”
All the data you want to look at maybe. I say that delivering one world championship when you have the best team in baseball about 8 times is well below average.
Not sure why I’m bothering but here goes. I know Robert is going to continue to be delusional but I suppose it’s nice for all of us to be reminded that Cox may have been a better manager than even the biggest Bobby Cox fans think.
How are you defining “best team”? Because the team with the best record has only won the World Series twice since the advent of the six-division format. Does that mean every manager since 1995 was below average except Torre in 1998 and Francona in 2007?
By your logic, I suppose we could very reasonably argue that Earl Weaver, Bill Terry, Mike Scioscia, Red Schoendienst, Lou Piniella, Jack McKeon, Charlie Manuel, Jim Leyland, Bob Lemon, Davey Johnson, Whitey Herzog, Ozzie Guillen, Leo Durocher and lots of other highly regarded managers were “below average.” Heck, just saying Durocher and Weaver were below average tells us the flawed logic of “only one World Series with lots of great teams.”
RHR
October 6th, 2009
9:32 am
RHR–yeah, Prado to right and Kelly at 2B makes absolutely zero sense…
For the money he makes KJ anywhere on this team makes absolutely zero sense. He was the 10th highest paid player on the team!
Jeff R
October 6th, 2009
9:32 am
I hope Cox is just trying to pump up Kelly Johnson’s value – my gut says he is, otherwise, Kelly would have had more opportunities later in the season to prove himself. Prado’s an infielder, unless management finds a 2B who is an upgrade.
Good to read that Cox said he’d require an “awful lot,” or some words to that affect, to move Vazquez.
Wren needs to resign LaRoche.
I wouldn’t expect Wren or Cox to say anything but good things about Kawakami. His season was okay, but I don’t think he pitched up to his contract. At Kawakami’s age, I don’t think a team has the luxury of a first season as a learning curve. I certainly hope Wren shops him, perhaps as part of a package for a power bat.
Far lower priority, but it would be good for Wren to look to acquire a solid 3B prospect this off-season, if one’s available. If this is Chipper’s last season, it would nice for the club to begin positioning a young talent for the job. But we’ve got to believe 2011 is Chipper’s last season, in any event. Start positioning now.
6-4-3
October 6th, 2009
9:36 am
What are the Braves’ plans for Schafer next season? Does he have a legitimate shot at starting in center next year? Or possibly right field? He doesn’t get mentioned that much anymore.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
9:36 am
I take great offense at RHR calling me a Francoeur loving teenaged girl
I didn’t call you that, I said you were worse than that. And only if you are one of the many, many, many resident aging frat daddys who get misty eyed over Kelly Johnson. At least the Francophiles had misguided youth on their side.
Anders
October 6th, 2009
9:40 am
If this is Chipper’s last season, it would nice for the club to begin positioning a young talent for the job. But we’ve got to believe 2011 is Chipper’s last season, in any event. Start positioning now.(JeffR)
This will not be Chippers last season. I can give you 42 million reasons why. Chipper had a weak moment when things weren’t going well and discussed the possibility of hanging them up next year. That has passed. He’s yours until 2012 and he’s not interested in changing positions either. Best of luck!
Braveheart
October 6th, 2009
9:41 am
Just looking over the Fielding Bible data at billjamesonline, Yunel ranked 4th amongst all MLB shortstops this season in runs saved with 13, a year after placing 4th with 12 runs saved. If I’m reading it right, Yunel’s 25 combined runs saved over the last two years is good for 2nd amongst all MLB shortstops over that time span, behind only Jack Wilson.
DAP
October 6th, 2009
9:43 am
Braveheart, as good as yunel is defensively, that surprises me a little bit.
Lew
October 6th, 2009
9:43 am
643-Schafer was injured most of the season and just had surgery on his hand. Reports state that currently, he is in a cast from shoulder to fingers, may possibly get to spend some time late in the Winter playing winter ball and may be ready for Spring Training. Not all that much to tell, really.
Braveheart
October 6th, 2009
9:46 am
Oh, no, RHR, you got me pegged all wrong there. I’ve always been the biggest Frenchy apologist, and a bit of a KJ hater (although I do defend him at times when folks get way too carried away with the bashing of him). I’ll have you know that you don’t have to be a teenaged girl to love you some Caucasian Clemente.
CB
October 6th, 2009
9:46 am
Only a fool would believe that the Braves would move Prado to the outfield. You would immediately take away the value he has as a second baseman, he would be a weak powered outfielder. Kelly will be non-tendered, but hopefully offered a lower salary contract. I would also hope the Braves would talk to the Pirates about Garrett Jones as a possible trade candidate,good power and a possible 4th hitter.
RHR
October 6th, 2009
9:52 am
Hmmm.
Lowe on the market
7:53AM ET
Derek Lowe | Braves
Top Email
If the Braves get a healthy Tim Hudson back, one thing they certainly have is a surplus of rotation arms. Start with Javier Vazquez and Jair Jurrjens, both who pitched a stone’s throw from Cy Young level performance this year. Then you have Tommy Hanson, a Rookie of the Year if not for a later call-up. Add Kenshin Kawakami, and you have a deep mix. There’s more depth in the system, and there’s also Derek Lowe, a good candidate for a trade to fill other needs, namely, offensive.
Mark Bowman at MLB.com says Lowe could be moved. “In order to retain the financial flexibility to keep the club’s rotation strong and also address the needs at first base, outfield and the back end of the bullpen, Wren is expected to explore the possibility of trading Lowe, who is owed $45 million over the final three years of his contract.”
Lowe benefits from being a steady player in both leagues who is as close there is to a lock in terms of innings. Atlanta might not get a haul for Lowe, but plenty of teams would ask about the price. Even to simply clear salary, it could do a lot to improve the Braves offensive outlook. Last year, Brian McCann led the team with 21 home runs.
Lew
October 6th, 2009
9:54 am
Do any of you seriously believe that Bobby Cox would sit there and outright tell you that Kelly Johnson is toast? Last season we heard how Smoltz and Glavine were throwing like their old selves and would be wonderful additions to the club. How exactly, did THAT shake out?
After all of these years and all the caustic comments about Bobby standing up for his players and constantly claiming they are the second coming of Joe DiMaggio or some such icon, you expect him to say anything other than what he said about Kelly? Who’s living in Fantasy Land now? If Bobby wwere so convinced about Kelly’s worth, don’t you think he actually might have played him a bit when he returned from Gwinnett?
During an interview with Joe Simpson this weekend, Frank Wren was so uncommital to Joe’s suggestion that Kelly practice the outfield this winter that I’m pretty certain the writing is on the wall-Kelly Johnson will be non-tendered.
DAP
October 6th, 2009
9:56 am
i dont think its time to move chipper down in the order just yet. he is still one of the top OBP guys on the team, so he should stay near the top….although, i think he will bounce back, anyways…
RHR
October 6th, 2009
9:56 am
Buster Olney
Braves will aggressively pursue bat
“Atlanta is expected by rival GMs to be very aggressive in its search for a right-handed hitter, whether it be a left or right fielder or a first or third baseman. ‘That’s a team that has the pitching to run down the Phillies next year,’ a longtime NL scout said.”
And lol Braveheart. I mean, I don’t hate Kelly. I’m just a realist. Like Frenchy, I wish him the best. Somewhere else.
DAP
October 6th, 2009
9:58 am
can i just pause and say what a great year matt diaz had? i hadnt taken a look at his numbers all at once, but they are really solid this year. his defense had improved and he s running better than ever, beating out singles, and even stole 12 bases this season. very nice year, matty.
McFann Ô
October 6th, 2009
10:01 am
NorCal–
You’re welcome!
Random maybe he’s just unjustly self-deprecatory of his defensive abilities.
Why not? Everyone else is unjustly deprecatory of his defensive abilities.
P. W. Hjort
October 6th, 2009
10:08 am
I agree with many about Prado. He’s not moving to the OF. Although, I wouldn’t mind seeing him in a full time utility role. That is–he’s an every day player, but he gets a few starts a week at 2nd, one at 1st, one at 3rd, and perhaps one at a corner OF. Think Mark DeRosa on the 2008 Cubs.
sportsmandh
October 6th, 2009
10:13 am
Here is my 2 cents. I would not offer any of the guys on my definate list as part of a trade (unless I was blown away by some offer we can’t see coming right now)
Definate list for ‘09, players we have to keep:
McCann
Chipper
Escobar
Prado
McClouth
Diaz
Infante
Ross
Vazquez
Jurrjens
Hanson
Moylan
Medlin
Sorianno OR Gonzo (they won’t sign both, if it were me I may go with Gonzo and try to sign someone else to replace Sorianno)
Now, regardless of what happens with these other guys, that definate list is pretty darn solid.
Maybes:
KK, Lowe, Hudson (depends on trade possibilites, payroll, etc. whichever 2 of the 3 they keep the rotation will be solid)
Schaefer
O’Flaherty
Definately NO list for ‘09:
Kelly Johnson
Loaf
Church
Norton
Someone’s idea about Magglio Ordonez was interesting. Wouldn’t be near the top of my list, but he may have something left in the tank. I’d rather have him than an old retread Sheffield.
sportsmandh
October 6th, 2009
10:16 am
meant ‘10 not ‘09
McFann Ô
October 6th, 2009
10:17 am
monty Ross is a better defensive catcher than Brian and will hit as many Hr’ as Brian
You don’t know that. I mean…that he’d hit as many home runs, of course.
Thing is…people just assume that if they stuck BMac at first base, he’d be sufficient defensively and hit 30 homers…that’s not a given! Suppose they did move him there and he (and ssoR as the starting C) didn’t live up to your expectations? Oh-ho! He’d be crucified for sure…and then what would they do for first base? Bring up Freeman a little too early?
I understand the risk of injury thing behind the plate, and obviously BMac does, too…but he’s so much more valuable to the team behind the plate, what with his game-calling skills and all. (Some of you may shoot down that theory, but that’s only your opinion. Pitchers like the way he calls the game…he gives a good target, too. Sets up in plenty of time for the pitcher to see where the pitch needs to go.)
One more thing: the Braves record when BMac started this year was 69-56. When ssoR started, they were 16-20 (1-1 with Sammons). Just sayin’…
beekay
October 6th, 2009
10:21 am
Can anyone answer this question? IF a team like the Yanks signs 3 type A free agents and doesn’t lose any how many picks do they lose since they only have 1 first round choice? Do they lose their first three rounds or future # 1’s or just one first rounder?
RHR
October 6th, 2009
10:22 am
Do any of you seriously believe that Bobby Cox would sit there and outright tell you that Kelly Johnson is toast?
No, but why throw Prado, after the year he’s given him, under the bus like that? Why say ‘oh heavens no, we just can’t give up on the great Kelly Johnson! Maybe we can make Prado learn a new position in winter ball where he’s already said he’s not playing this season’?
And if Bobby’s just blowing smoke for trade value don’t you reckon it would be a good idea for Wren to get on the same pipe? From all accounts I’ve read he practically scoffed at the mention of Kelly being on the team next year.
6-4-3
October 6th, 2009
10:25 am
Lew – I knew about Schafer’s injury but I guess my point was that nobody speaks that highly of him anymore. He was one of our top prospects just coming into this season, and now appears to be an afterthought. I guess they have to be realistic and make other plans, but the guy looked like he had a lot of promise, it’s just the the hand injury seemed to slow his development.
I wouldn’t be opposed to Schafer being our fourth outfielder to start the year. At the very least he’s good defensively.
Lew
October 6th, 2009
10:26 am
RHR-YUou’re searching for something to complain about here. They are probably going to attempt to trade KJ (probably won’t be able to, much like Marcus Giles). If Bobby had come out and said anything different, any vague possibility of trading KJ goes down the drain.
As for Martin-how was he dissed? Does the Dude not play multiple positions tobegin with? So Bobby mentioned him in RF. BIg deal. I could see him playing out there a game or two every now and then or situationally. He’ll still be playing, so what’s the slight? I fail to see one.
Shaun
October 6th, 2009
10:30 am
McFann, I agree that there are a lot of assumptions by those who want to move McCann to first. But one thing is obvious: His bat would almost certainly be less valuable at first. Sure he hits enough but he’s not likely to be one of the 2-3 best offensive firstbasemen in the league as he is behind the plate. Throw in the fact that he’s certainly not going to be a plus defender and is it really worth it? Sure, McCann would be just fine at first but overall I think the team is better with him at catcher.
Lunatic Fringe
October 6th, 2009
10:31 am
Steve from OH : Since his return from the DL (July 23), Kelly has hit….261/.358/.493=.851. That ain’t bad….
The problem is, the Braves have to many “ain’t bad” players playing now–They had an outfield full of them in 2009, and look where it got them. They need to get one or two “exceptional” position players to have a legitimate roster.
Anders
October 6th, 2009
10:31 am
Lew- Jeff Wilpon was on the FAN yesterday and he unequivocally said that the Mets payroll will not be impacted by the Madoff scandal or restricted because of any financial issues. He clearly stated to the Mets fan base that they were willing to spend what it would take if the right deal came along this off season. Now he was clear that they wouldn’t just spend wildly but he wanted to be clear that there were no financial constraints from the Madoff scandal. The fact that he would so publicly state this tells me there’s not much too worry about regarding this. Of course, the proof will be in the pudding. But since you were convinced they were in financial ruin I figured I’d share.
It was a very cool interview. Wilpon, Minaya and the President of the Mets were all there. They covered a lot of things.
Lew
October 6th, 2009
10:32 am
6-4-3-Dude, there’s just not much to say about him at this point in time. Were his struggles directly attributable to his injury (I think so)? Will he be able to come back and fulfill his promise? At this point, I would imagine that’s all up in the air. However, even if he can play some winter ball, he’s missed the better parts of two seasons now for one reason or another. After his performance (or lack thereof) in Atlanta last year, no one knows what to expect or when he might return to full health and level of play-or if he is the player they thought he was. Until then, there’s really just not much to say. You can’t pencil him in for a starting position and you have to approach 2010 as if he will spend it all at AAA. Wren pretty definitively said in interviews over the weekend that McLouth would be our CF going forward.