3:02 pm October 1, 2009, by David O'Brien
October 2nd, 200912:09 am
Vat iss dis Mann Doink Here?!
That would be incredible if we could get rid of Lowe. I mean, I’ll miss the big sweaty guy, but dumping all that money would be great.
Probably not gonna happen though.
October 2nd, 200912:10 am
how was the forty watt?
that is the third location since the late 80’s.
the original 40 watt was located across the street from harry bisset’s.
then it went behind the oddysey, the uptown lounge became the 40 watt.
saw so many good bands there.
the plimsouls, dreams so real, the smithereens, drivin n crying , 10,000 maniacs, and the replacements, remember tim.
great stuff, athens had good stuff.
October 2nd, 200912:11 am
The good times are over…
We can’t trade Derek Lowe.
Id do whatever it take to keep chipper on the team cause he deserves lots of respect, but his playing time should be reduced. I dont think he is successful against anyone anymore.
Did you ever feel over the course of the season that any team or pitcher ever felt nervous because it was chipper in the batters box? There was no respect showed toward him all season long.
October 2nd, 200912:13 am
Just a reminder Atlanta != Georgia. The other 4 million inhabitants wish Atlanta would GTFA and STFU.
October 2nd, 200912:14 am
you’re right ugabrave, athens once had good stuff. once had herschel, garrison, and knoshown, but now just caleb king and richard samuel.
but at least you’ve got a.j. green, who it pains me to say, is better than julio jones. julio’s been disappointing me.
October 2nd, 200912:15 am
And UGAY as well. The bigger the G, the bigger the Redneck.
October 2nd, 200912:19 am
So is O’Brien “Black Irish”?
October 2nd, 200912:21 am
Black Irish is a traditional term that is commonly used among Irish American communities to describe a dark brown or black hair phenotype appearing in Caucasian people of Irish descent. This can be distinguished in contrast to the (lighter) brown, blond or red hair color variant, the latter stereotypically perceived to personify the look of typical Irish folk. The term itself is rather ambiguous and not frequently used in everyday conversation. As such, the description of those it depicts has been known to vary to a degree in that some have differing views on which physical characteristics (e.g., dark hair, brown eyes, medium skin tone or dark hair, blue eyes, pale skin tone) best define the appearance of the so-called Black Irish.
Inspired by tales which claim the darker features to be of Iberian derivation, researchers have looked to science for answers, often citing genetic studies pertaining to those with Irish ancestry. This is seen as a means of determining what genotypic and environmental factors have contributed to the divergence between the more or less prevalent types found among Irish people.
October 2nd, 200912:22 am
what up bravey?
higtower’s injury will hurt. but blackmon is the man.
stop short of saying it, saban is probably the best defensive coach in the nation.
no doubt anymore.
October 2nd, 200912:23 am
The good times are never over in my world, JJ.
Brandon from Warner Robins
who is hogan?
October 2nd, 200912:24 am
Did you ever feel over the course of the season that any team or pitcher ever felt nervous because it was chipper in the batters box? There was no respect showed toward him all season long. (DOC HOLIDAY)
He walked 42 times in 157 plate appearances with RISP, 16 of those walks were intentional. He walked 98 times this season. Only Pujols, Dunn, and Adrian Gonzalez were walked more with RISP. Only Pujols, Manny, Gonzalez, and Fielder were intentionally walked more than Chipper with RISP this season. Doc, he’s still feared, and has got zero protection forcing pitchers to throw him good strikes to drive
October 2nd, 200912:25 am
after reading your posts day in day out, what years were you in athens?
October 2nd, 200912:26 am
Facts will only get you so far with this crowd, Braveheart.
Brandon, my money is on either pee guy or the herschel dude who randomly comes on here and asks for Vinings Jim every now and then for some reason. Must be a history I don’t know about.
Did you ever feel over the course of the season that any team or pitcher ever felt nervous because it was chipper in the batters box?
Chipper was once 0 – 0 with 5 BB against the Cardinals this year…
I don’t think Chipper’s time just be reduced without a pay cut…
I just read your earlier post about the lack of attractive starting free agents, and how it might make Lowe and Kawakami more attractive trade pieces. Didn’t even think about that, but it’s a very good point. (Daybed)
gee some of us have been saying that for months, buy it only counts when DOB says it? sheesh
October 2nd, 200912:27 am
ugabrave, that hightower injury makes me absolutely sick and angry. it was such a cheap, dirty block.
October 2nd, 200912:28 am
We should make more saturday…
October 2nd, 200912:29 am
Think we will win the last 3??
October 2nd, 200912:31 am
Should win the last 3. Do I think the Braves will, I Doubt it.
Yes. Hulk Hogan. He is a braves fan, and a stupid one at that…
October 2nd, 200912:32 am
The good times ended 1/20/09, When Soros Barama Otero was installed as Puppet of the United Commie States.
October 2nd, 200912:33 am
FYI, all Braves fans are stupid.
October 2nd, 200912:35 am
all those walks were because macc hit behind him. macc hit what .210 against lefthanders.
yeah tex had no effect, right?
so chipper approaches.400 with tex behind him.
so now squat.
hey note to all the super genius type bloggers. if tex had been here all year at first base we would be in the playoffs.
fact is we needed a THUG.
as spoken by a great wordsmith named scoots.
October 2nd, 200912:36 am
No. The only stupid Braves fans are the ones that go on a blog at midnight and pretend to be characters from a 40 year old TV show…
I don’t mind being a decoy if it frees somebody else up,” Jones said. “Everybody plays for each other. Everybody’s got each other’s back.
October 2nd, 200912:38 am
Well, at least there’s Craig Ferguson on @ 12:38
October 2nd, 200912:40 am
you are on a collision with urban and tebow. if you best lsu, who knows.
same type of showdown as last year in the dome.
saban dont get fooled again. i think he is the best college football coach in the nation.
October 2nd, 200912:41 am
FYI, all Braves fans are stupid. Klink
Says the man with the moniker of Klink.
October 2nd, 200912:43 am
First, you’re right BH, after the lazy, pitiful lack of effort in Boston, I have been A), surprised BC didn’t bench him, ala Andruw a few years ago, and B) counting the days until the bum is out of town.
Second, We don’t need anyone but Prado at second, unless it’s Infante at second and Prado at third. Yes, third. At this point, he is superior to Chip defensively AND offensively. Chip’s swing may return, but the glove, never a consistency, is gone. Can he play first? Maybe. Would he try? Who knows? Would Bobby move him down to, say, 6th or 7th in the order? Probably not, but a 270 hitter with no power needs to be moved down in the order. Keep Javy, he’s our ace. Anyone else not named Jair or Tommy is fair game.
Well guys and gals, even though we didnt make the playoffs, I am very happy with the way the season is winding down. Should be a pretty interesting offseason, I am anxious to see if we can unload Lowe or KK and keep Vazquez and pick up a reliever or two and a power bat. But, all in all, its much better than losing 90 games like last year, and the last 2 weeks were very exciting, something that has been missing from Braves nation for 3 years. Glad we had that.
October 2nd, 200912:44 am
couch tater, et tu brute.
tater the crimson fans always come out.
hey, i respect saban. georgia just wants kirby smart back.
he is our’s.
October 2nd, 200912:45 am
Oh how I wish Kirby Smart was back in Athens……
October 2nd, 200912:47 am
lol you must not read them all uga because i’ve told you a few times before – i was there right out of high school, fall of 88, then transferred to bama in 91 (because uga didn’t have a med school and my hubby got in at bama so off we went). graduated from bama a few years later then got a nursing degree from LSU Shreveport a few years after that.
If I remember correctly from your posts you and I are pretty close to the same age. those were the days in athens. uptown was our favorite spot..rockfish palace, 40 watt…is there a better downtown for a college kid than athens? not that i’ve ever seen. i met the father of my children at rockfish palace during a bbq killers show about a month after arriving in athens. I hope its still as good as it was back then…i bet it is.
October 2nd, 200912:50 am
either him or will muschamp, but we are saddled with MR. willie martinez.
willie’s best defensive set is back pedal.
October 2nd, 200912:52 am
Says the man with the moniker of O. J.
Sorry. Too easy…
October 2nd, 200912:53 am
No. The only stupid Braves fans are the ones that go on a blog at midnight and REPLY TO SOMEONE pretending to be from a 40 year old TV show…FTFY.
rhr, i knew there was a reason i liked you.
mitchell scared me off here for a while. really could not take him.
October 2nd, 200912:54 am
Not taking a shot at your boys. I just like the team concept that’s being preached.
And The only stupid Braves fans are the ones that go on a blog at midnight and REPLY TO SOMEONE that replies to someone pretending to be from a 40 year old TV show…FTFY.
October 2nd, 200912:55 am
ugabrave, i don’t think the fault for all those walks for chipper with risp fall squarely on mccann. the guys hitting fifth or sixth weren’t protecting much either. the other teams just weren’t afraid of the chain reaction walking chipper could cause.
think about it. you have chipper and mccann coming up with RISP. With those two guys coming up, the braves have a decent shot of getting the run in. but if you just walk chipper, all you have to do then is contend with mccann because you ain’t afraid of garrett anderson and his .233 AVG and .626 OPS with RISP hurting you. if mccann drives in the RISP, so be it, but you’re not afraid of chipper ever scoring on that walk because you know whoever is coming up after mccann likely ain’t plating chipper and/or mccann as much as they should.
And The only stupid Braves fans are the ones that go on a blog at midnight and REPLY TO SOMEONE that replies to someone who replies to someone pretending to be from a 40 year old TV show…FTFY.
And The only stupid Braves fans are the ones that go on a blog at midnight and REPLY TO SOMEONE that replies to someone who replies to someone that replies to someone pretending to be from a 40 year old TV show…FTFY.
October 2nd, 200912:56 am
Did you click the link I posted on pg 7?
And The only stupid Braves fans are the ones that go on a blog at midnight and REPLY TO SOMEONE that replies to someone who replies to someone that replies to someone replying to someone pretending to be from a 40 year old TV show…FTFY.
October 2nd, 200912:57 am
And The only stupid Braves fans are the ones that go on a blog at midnight and REPLY TO SOMEONE that replies to someone who replies to someone that replies to someone replying to someone pretending to be from a 40 year old TV show who replies…FTFY.
I think GA was a disappointment because of his .233 with RISP. GA was supposed to be better than that. We signed him to be our clutch hitter. He put up the numbers we thought he would, but the .233 was not expected.
October 2nd, 200912:58 am
Second Verse, same as the first! I’m Henery the 8th I AM, enerey the 8th I am I am
October 2nd, 20091:00 am
bbq killers, really that is up dob’s alley.
i remember seeing posters about those guys at the TATE student center.
granted i was a shallow frat guy. 320 south lumpkin street.
the corner of wray street and south lumpkin street. the house that flew that very large flag every gameday.
October 2nd, 20091:02 am
I love the Urinal Constipation, the pissy little paper that’s full of shat!
night y’all. my unc’s having surgery in the a.m. … not looking good. if you pray, say one for him. loves the braves, classic cars, and the tide. biggest bama fan ive ever known. hope he gets to see a lot more saturdays in the fall.
October 2nd, 20091:04 am
Klink was the worst character on that show…
October 2nd, 20091:05 am
Jurrjens4 hates Jews.
Thoughts and prayers for sure! Good night and good luck to your uncle
October 2nd, 20091:06 am
Didn’t see it tater – LMAO i’m sorry but i just can’t…i don’t care. he could save my grandmother from a burning building and i would cuss him out and ask wtf took him so long.
cab – thanks sweetie night.
October 2nd, 20091:07 am
Jurrjens4? I didn’t even know there was a Jurrjens3, or Jurrjens2….
October 2nd, 20091:12 am
cuz you be an uncle tom Jurrjens4NLCY
October 2nd, 20091:14 am
Not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China DOB, but stumbling on the allmusic.com page and managing to start spinning upon tangent after tangent of why I actually went there, I’ve got a piece of trivia for you as a Dylan fan.
Who played bass on his 1988 album Down in the Groove?
October 2nd, 20091:19 am
You should be getting to bed, its late and you’ve got the test tomorrow…
Remember: J comes after I, but before K. Also, “a lot” is two words, not “alot”
Tell me how you do tomorrow, ok?
October 2nd, 20091:20 am
EVERYBODY should read braveheart’s 12:55,
spot on. nobody feared whoever we hit fourth, fifth, or sixth.
interchange all of them, would you as a manager really fear that combination.
on top of that there are matchup problems. macc cant hit lefties..
i disagree with braveheart offensively on garrett anderson. i thought he did what he was supposed to do.
October 2nd, 20091:26 am
Does anyone else think Leno is starting to look like George Washington, or is this the Sam Adams talking?
October 2nd, 20091:43 am
I guess everyone ditched the blog to check in with the Washington look-a-like….
October 2nd, 20091:44 am
Too bad the Braves got eliminated… However, there is a lot to look forward to for the 2010 season. GO BRAVES in ‘10!!!!
October 2nd, 20091:49 am
Just a reminder Atlanta != Georgia. The other 4 million inhabitants wish Atlanta would GTFA and STFU.
I like how Hogan speaks for the entire state of Georgia now.
October 2nd, 20091:50 am
so maybe for the love that is all sanity mitchell will be gone.
by the way the market made a huge pivot today. we are waiting for a major unemployment report.
the markets are sitting on major 50 day moving averaves.
October 2nd, 20091:53 am
Glad I’m in Atlanta because I wouldn’t want him as my spokesman.
On another note, are we giving more thought to the Derek Lowe sweat fountain project for next season? If we invest in this, we obviously can’t trade him.
October 2nd, 20091:54 am
RHR – If you read this, LOVE the Lowe picture. Also said a prayer for you and your uncle. Let us know how he’s doing.
October 2nd, 20091:58 am
Yes! My stock adviser is on….
UGA, what looks promising in the near future?
October 2nd, 20092:03 am
s&p 500, and more importantly the semi conductor index is sitting at 310.
the 50 day moving avearage is at 308. this index is a leading indicator.
much like the transports used to be.
the s&p 500 rallied from 666 on march 9th, to well over 1040. major rally.
think about it. correction from that dead cat bounce is coming.
I dunno uga. What was Garret supposed to do offensively? If you ain’t gonna have an OBP, you gotta at least have power and/or execute with RISP or at least play good D and run the bases well. He didn’t have an OBP, didn’t have power, didn’t execute with RISP, didn’t field well, and didn’t run the bases well. I guess we got what we paid for, but geez we didn’t get very much. Can’t blame Wren. It was all he had available to him at the time, but it’s just been so painful being forced to watch him all season.
October 2nd, 20092:05 am
it all comes down to the number at 8:30 today.
October 2nd, 20092:06 am
Tater, I hear ya on Julio, he’s been hurt, and I should be patient, but I’m just dying for him to break out, and am losing patience because I’m watching Green do some breathtaking stuff for UGA at wideout, and since AJ is Julio’s #1 rival, I can’t stand that Green is starting to break away from Julio.
October 2nd, 20092:08 am
what were the options?
we got shut out. he was bettter then i thought.
October 2nd, 20092:11 am
a.j. green is special. he understands how to get space. he pushes off in order to get seppartion.
October 2nd, 20092:15 am
we will see,
chad scott is supposed to be the best safety in the conference minus eric berry, they will roll him over in press coverage.
they will take him away. it is up to joe cox to find his other receivers.
October 2nd, 20092:31 am
uga, you’re also gonna need samuel, caleb, and that o-line to suck that safety up and in to the line of scrimmage away from green
P. W. Hjort
October 2nd, 20092:35 am
Can’t blame Wren. It was all he had available to him at the time
Sure you can. There were plenty of opportunities to pick up a competent LF’er for a few decent prospects and a few million dollars. Ryan Ludwick, Josh Willingham, Nick Swisher, and Coco Crisp are just a few examples of players that could’ve been has for a few decent prospects and a few million dollars on the trade market this off-season. If someone tries to tell you there was nothing better than Garret Anderson available, they’re insulting your intelligence. Not that Garret Anderson was a horrible pick-up. He’s been pretty lousy, but not too much lousier than his modest $2.5 million salary. And Wren made fixing the pitching staff his priority, something he should have. Which undoubtedly limited his ability to bring in a competent OF’er. But Wren failed in his off-season pursuit of more power in the outfield. And Garret Anderson wasn’t the best option available to fix the problem.
October 2nd, 20092:38 am
totally agree, braveheart.
until we establish a running game you are correct.
dont see the two of them doing it.
no latterall movement.
October 2nd, 20092:42 am
see ya saturday braveheart. way past sleep time.
October 2nd, 20093:17 am
DOB and others,I would like to know why is it that you would rather trade Javy and keep Huddy?Huddy is coming off arm surgery and he is almost in same situation as Chipper.He is a small man that has a lot of innings under his belt.I also think the price that The Braves pay him and the length of the contract is a risk.Javy,to me is a safer pitcher at this time and I believe he might be the better pitcher right now.Oaktown made a decision to trade Huddy and the reason was the strain he puts on his arm because of his small statue would catch up with him.As I said earlier,The Braves made a misstake with Chipper and I hope they don’t make the same with Huddy.Best case would be to keep Javy,sign Huddy to a manageable contract and trade Lowe if possible.I hope they give Javy a home here because he earned it and he wants to stay after years of being traded.
October 2nd, 20093:23 am
Nah, PWH, no one told me anything and no one insulted my intelligence until you just did. I actually paid attention to how that all played out last offseason, did you? Garret was all he had available to him at the time. Crisp and Swisher were dealt early in the offseason when they still had dreams of an impact bat, and two or three impactful arms. The asking price for Ludwick was Kelly Johnson, and you’re not gonna trade away a guy who was one of the five best second baseman in the NL at the time for an outfielder coming off a flash in the pan career year. So, none of those guys you mentioned were really ever realistic or reasonable options. You’re not gonna tie yourself down early in the offseason when you have limited financial and labor resources trading away your labor and tying up your money in marginal hitters before you get the arms and bat you desperately need, especially not when there were so many marginal outfielders available on the free agency market. By the time they got done trading for and signing the arms they needed, Garret was all that was reasonable available considering the labor and monetary resources at their disposal.
October 2nd, 20093:29 am
Here is some humor on a rough night… Its the best balk call ever.
October 2nd, 20093:33 am
why is it that you would rather trade Javy and keep Huddy?
No one really wants to trade Javy or get rid of Huddy, or keep Huddy over Javy. Most would rather keep both of them, and if it was just about baseball performance as one relates to the other, there are many (not Scoots) who would rather keep Javy over Hudson. The thing is though if you let Huddy walk, what do you get in return for that? Nothing. You just get to keep Javy. But if you keep Huddy, and trade Javy, you get Huddy plus whatever the hell Javy gets you back in a trade. Hudson plus whatever you get back for Vazquez may be more valuable to this team in the present and future than just having Javy. That’s the rationale behind trading Javy and keeping Hudson
October 2nd, 20093:37 am
I agree 100%, Braveheart.
October 2nd, 20095:22 am
October 2nd, 2009
Id do whatever it take to keep chipper on the team cause he deserves lots of respect, but his playing time should be reduced. I dont think he is successful against anyone anymore.
Did you ever feel over the course of the season that any team or pitcher ever felt nervous because it was chipper in the batters box? There was no respect showed toward him all season long.”
Well, he sure drew a lot of walks for someone not respected, and probably would have drawn a lot more if he hadn’t gotten in that mode for a while of swinging at first pitches.
October 2nd, 20095:31 am
Very well said! I would rather keep them both and trade Lowe or KK but if we had to trade one of them it would be Vazquez. Hudson would also more than likely give the Braves a “home-town” discount maybe another 4 yr deal but for around 28-32 mil. Javy could net us our power bat or several good prospects.
October 2nd, 20095:35 am
If the Braves had the money and the chance to sign Bay or Holliday, it would be insane to trade Vasquez. The free agent market gets pretty weak after those two guys. Frank Wren learned his lesson by not getting a premier bat in the line up. It obviously cost them the playoffs. I believe that the only real chance to get that premier bat would be in a trade. I dont think the right peices are there in the minors to pull off another Wren miracle this time. I understand what Javy did this year and it is always tough to find, much less trade away a quality pitcher like him, but in this case I think he has to.
It looks more and more like Hudson’s option will not be picked up and the Braves will negotiate with him on a new (and cheaper) contract. He obviously wants to play here and the Braves would love to have him. They just dont want to pay 12mil for a guy that hasnt truely proven if he can pitch at the top of his game again after surgery.
Its a gamble, but if you can have Hudson at 75% and a premier bat for Vasquez, it seems worth it. The rotation is still going to be strong. It wont be AS strong, but it will be pretty darn good.
The best case scenario would be to somehow dump Lowe and all that money he is owed. That would prove much harder to do and the quality of talent you get back would not be a good as what you could get for Javy. The Braves could get two or three good players for Javy or they could get one guy with a bad contract for Lowe. They might be able to get one decent MLBer and a low level prospect for Lowe, but I am sure that’s if they eat a little of his contract which I dont think they will do.
So, trade Cy Young canidate Javy for a great bat and one or two minor league guys or dont sign Hudson and get nothing for the outfield. The second choice seems like it will be a repeat of this year. Great Starting pitching, but a line up that doenst have a big gun this side of McCann and maybe LaRoche. Chipper cant be counted on to produce his big numbers anymore. Personally I think he had a fluke year and will be fine, but as a GM, you dont really want to keep your fingers crossed all off season.
I am worried that they will have another one year rental like Garrett Anderson. You can take all new factors into account (McLouth all year, maybe LaRoche all year..) and the one year rental and you will have a repeat performance. If the Braves do get rid of a CY Young caliber guy, it better be for a young, controllable star who will help for more than one year. Frank Wren can make this happen, he has the talent to pull off a great trade for Javy and make the line up incredible potent while only denting the rotation.
Oh well. Maybe he can sweet talk to Lberty guys into increasing payroll and just sign Bay or Holliday….
October 2nd, 20096:23 am
Icky Thump/WBC (October 1st, 2009 5:50 pm): “The Braves finished the month of September 17 – 10. A good, not great month of Baseball.”
Mitchell (October 1st, 2009 6:28 pm): “Exactly! And next year, with some young players coming up and a big bat hopefully, will be somewhat better than this one. Good overall, but still not great.”
Shyeah — right.
If they did that for six months, they’d only finish at 102 – 60.
“Good, not great.”
And even if they’re “somewhat better” next season (what? 107 – 55? 112 – 50?), still not great.
Just “Good overall, but still not great.”
(Y’all’re blinded by your hatred.)
October 2nd, 20096:43 am
Thank gawd the Braves lost!
I’ve written about this before… I think it will spur Braves management MORE to build this club up and make hard decisions about reaching the pinnacle rather than settling for “Welp, we made the playoffs! So we don’t really NEED to change the club much.” Uh, yes we do.
We NEED more speed, more power, better relief, and a few players simply have to go–period.
Soriano needs to go. He is only 1-6 people. What is with this guy? He can burn the best one game but then give up a homer in a crucial game the next (?) I say, unload him on someone else. Bring back Gonzo since he is a gamer. I think we have enough parts to make for a decent bullpen. Maybe we can have Gonzo and Moylan share closing duties.
Kelly Johnson, Greg Norton (the worst hitter in all of baseball), Garret Anderson, and Ryan Church all need to be released, not signed, or unloaded on someone else. If nothing else, I think we need to clean out the closet every few months just to prevent Cox from using players like these–BECAUSE YOU KNOW HE WILL.
I think it will be a very fruitful 2010. The team did pretty well considering the circumstances in the second half, we have great pitching, some potentially very good players, Jason Heyward will likely make the team in spring, and you know you have one of the best GMs in all of baseball who is willing to take chances and make hard decisions! Go Braves!
October 2nd, 20097:28 am
Pete Orr, the ex Brave Factor is alive and well
October 2nd, 20097:51 am
Braves lack of punch in the lineup was probably as evident last night as at any other point in the season. Losing 2-1 to the Nats, and against a starter with an ERA around 6 coming into the game? Just sad.
Wren knows the script. I’m confident he’ll find the right piece to augment the lineup.
Chipper on the other hand… well, he gets bashed enough. I just hope his off-season workout regimen is fruitful beyond hunting and selling videos.
Marc in FL
October 2nd, 20097:53 am
I’m glad our offense has hit a slump in a way. Now going into the offseason our line-up struggles will be fresh in Wren’s and Bobby’s minds. Hopefully this stretch will make them more aggressive in finding some solutions.
I don’t like to predict too much cause FO people know so much that we here on the blog don’t, but I’d be willing to bet money we make a push to get Fielder. And imagine this team with Fielder at first the first half instead of Kotchman, I bet Chipper never goes into this slump he’s in with that behemoth behind him.
October 2nd, 20098:05 am
I hope someome has the balls to go after David Letterman. He has made a fortune on other people’s misfortune. I’d love to see a skit with the George W Bush impersonator asking CBS employees if they had sex with Letterman (or something to that effect).
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