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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,373 comments Add your comment
Heath
September 24th, 2009
11:19 am
So, DOB, I saw on this edition of the blog that you were outlining what records each team would have to have over the rest of the season to get to 90 wins…. kinda funny since you basically told me 30 games or so ago when I did it that it was irrelevant and that “…the Braves only needed to loss one less game.” ….OK, just poking at you there. Seriously, though, the Braves have counced back in the last 2 weeks to atleast put one eye on the wild card standings. With the Rockies having to face teams like the Cardinals and Brewers still and the Braves almost finishing the rest of the season against the Nationals…could end up being a tight race.
P. W. Hjort
September 24th, 2009
11:20 am
Prado a solid defensive 2B is laughable.
DAP
September 24th, 2009
11:20 am
RCWhat do you guys think the price on Xaiver Nady will be this offseason? He seems to be one of the few “big bat” corner outfielders the Braves could actually afford.
nady had a pretty serious injury this season, and cant even start throwing until november…i think its possible that he would be good for the braves, but i think he might be a little to risky to be my first choice.
Heath
September 24th, 2009
11:20 am
*counced = bounced… not sure what happened there.
glord1
September 24th, 2009
11:21 am
For the Barves to have any shot they need a sweep this weekend and then ROX need to drop 2 out of 3. Then things could get interesting.
DAP
September 24th, 2009
11:24 am
pwh jort
i dont think kelly should be on the 25 man next season either, because i think prado should get a chance to play everyday, and kelly is making to much money to be a back-up 2nd baseman, the only position he can really play.
glord1
September 24th, 2009
11:24 am
If Nady can throw he would be my first choice for a Braves outfielder. Coming off the injury he probably gets 6-7 mil and could give you 25 hr and 90 rbi. Nady, Diaz, Hayward and McLouth is a pretty good outfield with options.
Jeff R
September 24th, 2009
11:24 am
Barring some unforseen circumstance, Bobby Cox is managing the Bravos in 2010, whether anyone likes it or not. Managers, in my very humble opinion, are overrated when it comes to the success or failure of ball clubs.
Having said that, not too many Braves’ players – publicly, at least – are voicing disappointment about Cox returning.
As Shaun and others have mentioned, the Braves are on target to win in the high 80s this season, with a not unreasonable chance at 90 wins. Given where the team was at this time in ‘08, there’s been a dramatic turn around in performance. No one can say that what the Bravos have done this season isn’t a big step in the right direction.
Looking ahead, this winter Wren definitely needs to shore up the offense and make decisions about the rotation and bullpen. If he’s successful in doing so, then I think the Braves will be bona fide contenders next season, no matter who is managing the club.
richbrave
September 24th, 2009
11:25 am
I see the POSSIBILITY of COLORADO losing only four more games – two to St. LOUIS and two to L.A., and that’s not a given by any means. They might drop one to the PADRES tonight, but not likely. Which means we’ve got to win out including three against the FISH who are salivating at the chance to eliminate our possibilities by winning one or two in the series. And they can do it too, dammed pests. GO BRAVES. Don’t even THINK about the next game. Keep concentrating on the one you’re currently in.
Johnny Schuerholz
September 24th, 2009
11:25 am
DOB…
They pretty much update after every game…even while other games are in-progress. 7.8% at the present time…which is about where I see it…at 1 in 10. But it could all change in a hurry…we lose 1 or 2 this weekend and I think that we are done. However, if Rockies get swept this weekend…then
I would say that we pull it out. Dodgers…next weekend is a lot tougher…than us vs. the Nationals…
STILL BELIEVE…
Jeff R
September 24th, 2009
11:26 am
Kelly Johnson is all but gone.
David O'Brien
September 24th, 2009
11:26 am
Shaun, we have a few folks here who, unfortunately, can’t differentiate between a grounder that goes through the infield for a hit, or a line drive to the gap that goes for a double. Hudson gave up nine hits, all singles, and I think at least six of them were groundballs. Cox was talking mainly about him having a good sinker, which he did — but Hudson conceded the location of said sinker was just a little off.
Bobby's Cox
September 24th, 2009
11:27 am
I’ve looked through the blog and can’t find where any reporter got a quote on the Cox story
from Yunel Escobar
Carroll must have been the one asking Yunel for his thoughts
NO MORE BOBBY
September 24th, 2009
11:27 am
REDS and PADRES.
All I’m saying.
N8 (is it 2011 yet?)
September 24th, 2009
11:28 am
glord1, I’m actually OK with Prado, but I do think if he’s the guy, than that should factor into which one of Hudson or Vazquez is kept. I actually like Prado to be Chipper’s replacement in a year or two. He’s actually above average (from what I’ve seen and heard on radio), at 3B. Not a HR machine, but he’s plenty productive.
But you are right, we can’t have the Gold Glove/Silver Slugger at each position, you take the good with the bad. In the end, Prado’s overall game is worth his cost (in salary), and overall, he’ll help win more games than he causes us to lose.
Make no mistake on my opinion of Prado. Had he been our 2B from opening day (yes, I realize he wasn’t healthy), we’re already locked into the WC spot.
DG
September 24th, 2009
11:28 am
I haven’t posted here before, but I read almost every day and have been a huge Braves fan since ‘81. For those who comment about this loss or that loss that should have been a win (Tommy Hanson’s game against Houston, as an example). The Braves reeled off 7 in a row and 11 of 13 since then. My question is, would they have done that if the Braves had one that game?
Or, when the Dodgers won on Either’s 9th inning walk-off home run, the Braves came back and won three straight from them in LA? Would they have done so if they held on in that first game?
Would the Braves have gotten this hot if they did, in fact, win 2 of 3 from the Reds? Maybe they don’t win 12 of 15 since the Reds’ series because, as the players stated, the pressure was off. Maybe they only win 9 of 15, which is one less win that what they have. I just don’t know.
My point is that we don’t know how they would have played, how the pitchers would have pitched, how Bobby would have managed (no jokes here), how the other teams would have played, etc, etc.
It’s sort of like whe a runner gets picked off base and the next guy hits a homerun. We like to say that the team missed out on a run. However, the pitcher may have pitched differently with that runner on base and, maybe, the batter would have grounded into a DP or struck out, instead.
My overall point is that no one knows how the team or players would have reacted after those excruciating losses or how any other situation would have played out, because the circumtances are always different and the reactions (and decisions made) might also be.
So, the Braves are where they are supposed to be, still fighting for a playoff spot, which is what any baseball fan can hope for, in late September.
richbrave
September 24th, 2009
11:29 am
DAP:
Agreed. Expect WREN to go after the top dog in HOLLIDAY. especially since COX just announced his retirement. Keep that 100 million plus payroll for two years then ease off a bit, but I think LIBERTY’s willing. JUST A HUNCH DOB, nothing I can hang my hat on. Possibilities, not realities O.K.!!!!
McFann Ô
September 24th, 2009
11:31 am
DOB While he’s very good, he’s struggling a bit lately and also getting no run support.
Great.
I wish the Braves were on tonight…I hate off days.
glord1
September 24th, 2009
11:31 am
DOB – I thought Hudson was awesome last night. 4-5 of the Mets hits were seeing eye ground balls. Almost no balls were squared up and hit hard last night. The only real mistake I saw him make was walking the pitcher. Hudson appears to be back. With on off season to work out and strengthen he should be winning 15-17 games next year.
Jeff R
September 24th, 2009
11:34 am
Prado eventually replacing Chipper at third? Possible. I don’t know that he would ever generate the sort of power you’d want from that position.
In the past, others have floated the idea of moving Escobar to third. Might work. He’s got a chance to develop into 20-25/90 power guy. Might be easier to find a capable shortstop than a talented third baseman.
The Man
September 24th, 2009
11:34 am
Look how Medlen’s debut and the game before the allstar break where Manny “A-cost-an us win” are really coming back to bite us. Thats our 4 game swing we need right now if only Bobby would have pulled Medlen sooner and realized the Manny shouldnt have been on the team.
Jeff R
September 24th, 2009
11:37 am
Liberty Media might bite on signing Holliday. In terms of team value, getting back into the post season is a big boost. Would likely more than offset the added payroll.
richbrave
September 24th, 2009
11:37 am
Well, don’t enjoy it McFANN. I won’t either. Let’s run the table guys.
McFann Ô
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
Jeff R In the past, others have floated the idea of moving Escobar to third. Might work.
Yeah, but his defense at short is so dang good.
glord1
September 24th, 2009
11:38 am
I would hate to see Escobar ever moved to third. He is a plus defender and hitter at SS. He is not a plus hitter at 3B. The Braves do not expect Escobar to develop into a power hitter. They project his as a 15 – 18 Hr 80 rbi guy. Prado may end up giving you the same thing once he get regular atbats.
McFann Ô
September 24th, 2009
11:39 am
richbrave Well, don’t enjoy it McFANN.
So far I’m not.
Daslied
September 24th, 2009
11:39 am
Joe D. Loves Marilyn – here are your pinch-hitting stats (AB & OPS):
McCann: 4-10 / 1.155
Kotchman: 0-9 / .182
Johnson: 5-16 / 1.000
Escobar: 1-2 / 1.000
C. Jones: 3-7 / 1.214
Anderson: 3-11 / .818
McLouth: 0-0 (BB)
Francoeur: 1-3 / .667
Prado: 4-10 / 1.138
Diaz: 4-15 / .722
Infante: 3-9 / .667
LaRoche: 0-4 (with all teams)
Schafer: no PA
Ross: 0-2 / .333
Church: 4-10 (1 HR) / 1.200
Hernandez: 0-5 / .000
Norton: 47-64 / a billion
Conrad: 1-13 / .451
Blanco: 1-6 / .333
Gorecki: 3-14 / .464
Canizares: no PA
B. Jones: 0-0 (BB)
Sammons: no PA
Barton: no PA
Vazquez: 0-1 (BB, 2 sac bunts) / .500
Kawakami: 0-2 / .000
Medlen: 0-1 / .000
Fine, it’s really 10-64 / .537.
richbrave
September 24th, 2009
11:41 am
Jeff R:
I like your take on ESCOBAR’s potential for power. But I question his leadership in the clubhouse. I think that’s a big negative right now. If the BRAVES would show him some love and $$$$ when they don’t have to, it might go a long way to solving that attitude problem of his.
McFann Ô
September 24th, 2009
11:41 am
glord1 He is not a plus hitter at 3B.
Yeah…it’s like moving BMac to first. He’s a plus-offender at his position, but you move him to a corner spot and he’s just about average.
Jeff R
September 24th, 2009
11:43 am
McFann Ô… Escobar does, indeed. But it’s not a stretch seeing Escobar playing third. He did it when he came up, and played solid defense, as I recall. Question is, which is tougher challenge: finding a capable shortstop or a good defensive/offensive third baseman?
Brian the Brain
September 24th, 2009
11:45 am
So if this thing goes down to the last day. The Braves are at home at 1:35pm and Colorado is at LA at 4:10pm. Will the Braves let fans stay and watch the game on the giant screen? Could be one heck of a celebration afterwards!
Jeff R
September 24th, 2009
11:45 am
richbrave… You do raise a great point about Escobar’s attitude.
DAP
September 24th, 2009
11:46 am
richbrave…that would be interesting. but, i dont see the braves landing holliday, even if payroll is raised. and, i dont think they really need holliday. i dont think it would be wise to depend on heyward to contribute much, and i think wren needs to building the team as if he wont, but pretty soon, we are going to have a star offensive performer on our hands. i think an outfielder who will hit 25 homers and play good defense is enough.
glord1
September 24th, 2009
11:46 am
Jeff my only point is I have not seen a better defensive SS in the NL the second half than Esco. He is a stud out there. Why move him when his offense is a plus for SS but not third.
Robert (Chipper Is The Best)
September 24th, 2009
11:46 am
Look, Cox is one of the greatest managers to ever live but like all great managers/coaches the game eventually passes them by and it passed Cox by about two years ago. It happens to the best. It happened to Landry, Shula, Herzog, Weaver, Anderson and Knoll. The difference is most of those guys realized and hung it up. Cox hangs on and puts the orginization in a tough position. Most owners and GMs aren’t like Jerry Jones and tells the legend its time to go!
This should’ve been Cox’s last season but next year will be and lets hope he learns to adjust some because next year’s team should be one of the five or six best in all of baseball!
Daslied
September 24th, 2009
11:50 am
I say a big “meh” to Xavier Nady. Maybe, since he’s a free agent coming off surgery, they could get him on a cheap 1-year deal. But he would be my plan J.
Jeff R
September 24th, 2009
11:51 am
glord1… Escobar, no doubt, is excellent at shortstop. Yet he could be a close to excellent third baseman defensively. Is it easier for the Bravos to find a soild defensive/good hitting shortstop or a third baseman with those qualities? I’m really not certain.
AustinBrave
September 24th, 2009
11:54 am
I think we need two big bats next year, not a 20 home run guy but two over 30 home run guys. This is the only way we will keep up with Philly. I would love to see us get Aaron Hill. I know many people think he is playing over his head this year but well worth the chance. Also a power hitting left field possibly Adam Dunn. We have the pieces to trade and easily could be the team to beat over the next few years.
abwright
September 24th, 2009
11:55 am
PN, 11:05 am … “So Chipper came out of the game last night with a stiff back? Is he that big of a p#sy?”
Have you ever pulled, torn, broken something in your back (especially your lower back)? Everything that you do (stand, sit, walk, run, swing, throw, bend over, … ) goes right through your back. It is impossible to do anything athletic at any level (much less the highest level) with an sore back.
The first time you hurt your back (and trust me, you will), tell me how much of a “p#sy” you are.
White Blood Cells
September 24th, 2009
11:56 am
Holliday is represented by Scott Boras. He will not be a Brave next year.
Lew
September 24th, 2009
11:56 am
RCIB-Please explain this “Passed him by” bullcrap. How does the game pass anyone by? Have they begun to play the game differently the past two seasons? Do they not still have pitchers pitching, hitters hitting and fielders trying to catch the ball when it’s hit and managers filling out the lineups? They haven’t expanded the DH. They haven’t raised or lowered the mound again. The haven’t changed the manner in which runs are scored.
Gotta tell you Dude, that passing him by comment is only rivaled in it’s absurdity by the waiting for a Three Run HR comment we hear so often. What a crock. Maybe if you have a problem with Cox you could perhaps explain exactly what about him pisses you off (not that we haven’t heard the bull too many times in the past), but to sit here and repeat non sequiters, platitudes and absolutely ridiculous sayings nets you nothing in the way of credibility.
MZ
September 24th, 2009
11:56 am
i never thought i’d pull for the Padres as hard as I will be today, not after the way they ousted the Braves in ‘98 … with such model big leaguers as Kevin Brown, Greg Vaughn and Ken Caminiti, no less … however, GOOOOOOOO PADRES!!!!!
Also — Spacehog’s debut album (Resident Alien): really, really fine stuff!
Wayne in Utah
September 24th, 2009
11:58 am
richbrave
The concept of giving a person with an attitude problem more love (read cash) to try to solve his problem, rarely works in most businesses. All you do is raise the expectation in that player that all he has to do is keep doing what he is doing, and he will get more money.
I don’t think you punish the player, but treat him fairly, as you would any of your other employees. If he screws up, there is a consequence. If he does well, there is praise.
The question with Escobar is will he ever really come around to be the type of player who you are comfortable with becoming one of your team leaders.
I have taken a lot of heat for saying so, but sometimes you deal high on a player like that, if you think he won’t come around.
Personally, I hope Escobar comes around, but if it were my team, he would not be off limits either.
Shaun
September 24th, 2009
11:59 am
Look, Cox is one of the greatest managers to ever live but like all great managers/coaches the game eventually passes them by and it passed Cox by about two years ago.
Again, no one seems to provide solid evidence for this. I agree, a 75-year-old isn’t likely to be as sharp as a 40-year-old. And while I think it helps to be sharp when managing a major league team, I’m not sure that an older guy can’t do an adequate job. I do think it helps to have a younger GM because I think being a GM is much more intellectually demanding. But I think the evidence throughout the history of baseball is clear that even the best managers don’t make a hugely significant impact. Again, look at Tony LaRussa’s record with the Cardinals. Look at Francona when he went from Philly to Boston. Francona is still a relatively young man. Do you think he really got significantly smarter since he left Philly…or did he just go to a better organization with better players and a better front office which acquires those better players?
DAP
September 24th, 2009
11:59 am
has jermine dye been injured these last two months? boy did he fall off a cliff in august….
DAP
September 24th, 2009
12:01 pm
white blood cellsHolliday is represented by Scott Boras. He will not be a Brave next year.
derek lowe is represented by scott boras. what team did he sign with?
i dont think holliday will end up with the braves next year, but scott boras isnt the reason.
Vinings Jim
September 24th, 2009
12:01 pm
cabravesfan – Good Morning! I hope you enjoyed catching up on all the morning activity – there has been lots of it….
Shaun
September 24th, 2009
12:03 pm
A challenge to the Cox haters: Name one manager who managed both great teams “on paper” and not so great teams “on paper” but consistently had equally impressive records from season-to-season.
Actually, you can make the argument that Bobby Cox comes the closest to any manager in history as far as managing teams with consistently impressive records.
White Blood Cells
September 24th, 2009
12:04 pm
RHR,
Read your post asking where I was (I’m flattered). Wasn’t that great, one Brave castoff lobbying for another Brave castoff to play for the most dysfunctional organization in baseball. I stand corrected sir, players should lobby for other players.
Arkansas Braves fan
September 24th, 2009
12:04 pm
Its a lot to ask,but the Braves have to win the last 10 games, no room for a single loss. If they can complete that monumental task, they have a great shot to at leat tie up Colorado. The Rockies could very well lose 4 games with the schedule they have remaining. 9 games against the Cards, Brewers, and Dodgers won’t be easy. The Rockies pitching has been getting battered lately. One thing for sure, the Braves will be in every game with their staff.
Wayne in Utah
September 24th, 2009
12:05 pm
Jeff R
As for where Escobar will eventually end up (and Prado, as a result of where Escobar goes), I think you just wait until one of two things happen. First, if an opportunity comes along to get a very, very good hitting infielder, you go get him, regardless of his position (Dan Ugglan??). Secondly, if you don’t find that good hitting infielder, you see what you have coming up (Brandon Hicks or Mycal Jones??) and then you plug them in where ever the 3 players best fit.
You really don’t decide anything until you really have to.
As for Kelly Johnson, I think Kelly goes the way of Marcus Giles. A decent player or potentially decent player, not quite worth the arbitration salary he would command. Nobody else would really trade for him, because they would know that after he is non-tendered, he becomes a free agent to pick up without dealing another player. UNLESS, some team thinks the gamble on him is worth the risk. Would the Braves be in that camp?
White Blood Cells
September 24th, 2009
12:06 pm
DAP,
I stand corrected. That’s probably why Frank had to pay too much for Lowe.
Wayne in Utah
September 24th, 2009
12:06 pm
Uggla….
David O'Brien
September 24th, 2009
12:09 pm
Hey, we’ll have a matchup Sunday of the NL starting pitchers with the two highest opponents’ average allowed this season: Livan Hernandez (.309) and Derek Lowe (.299).
McFann Ô
September 24th, 2009
12:10 pm
Jeff R Question is, which is tougher challenge: finding a capable shortstop or a good defensive/offensive third baseman?
Hmm…dunno…
RHR
September 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
This Mets fan’s comments on Bobby and Chipper damn near made me tear up.
http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=16136
It says a lot when fans of other teams have more respect for Bobby and Chipper than many so called Braves fans. And its not just this one guy, I’ve seen similar comments all over the internet from fans of all teams, but then I read something on a braves site and the comments by a certain fringe of braves fans are like ‘OMFG! SEASON! See ya in 2011!” or “OMG! My worst nightmare! Bobby is coming back next year!”
Wayne in Utah
September 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
Arkansas Braves fan
While it would make for an exciting end of the season, I don’t know if it is realistic to expect the Braves to have enough in the tank to pull it off.
BUT, it could certainly happen. As I have always told anyone that will listen, I don’t give up hope until we are mathematically eliminated.
With our pitching staff, anything is possible.
BT
September 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
For me the worst part of the season was when Kelly, Jordan and Frenchy were all struggling and still hoping.
The rest of the year has been highly entertaining and we have a ton of upside.
DAP
September 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
white blood cells That’s probably why Frank had to pay too much for Lowe.
could be that, or maybe it was because he desperately needed pitching and had to outbid a team or two. look, the point is, being a scott boras client does not disqualify a player from being a brave.
BT
September 24th, 2009
12:12 pm
DOB: Hey, we’ll have a matchup Sunday of the NL starting pitchers with the two highest opponents’ average allowed this season: Livan Hernandez (.309) and Derek Lowe (.299).
It will probably end up as a 2-1 game.
abwright
September 24th, 2009
12:13 pm
I’m not too concerned about what the Rockies, Giants, and Marlins are doing. As long as the Braves are on a run, I’m going to enjoy it. The last several years have had some team falling out of contention on the last day to a hot team chasing them down (Phillies/Mets for the last two; Rockies/Padres, Twins/Tigers before that).
Maybe this year is the Braves’ turn at chasing down a lead team. It has that feel to it, although they may come up short.
Right now, the Rockies may be still chasing the Dodgers. If the Rockies start thinking about themselves as the lead team, rather than the chase team (if they haven’t thought about it already), they may tighten up and choke at the end.
When LA eliminates COL and when PHI eliminates ATL, FLA from the division races, it will be interesting to see how those teams respond. That’s got to be a down feeling, even if you are still in the playoff hunt.
Wayne in Utah
September 24th, 2009
12:13 pm
White Blood Cells
For the high demand positions (starting pitchers and top hitters), you always overpay on the free agent front. One of the reasons the Braves have preferred to go the trade route over the years.
White Blood Cells
September 24th, 2009
12:14 pm
DAP,
In all seriousness, I agree with you completely and felt it was necessary to get Lowe and glad we did. I was delighted we got him over Burnett when the deal was done. I just don’t like Boras.
cabravesfan
September 24th, 2009
12:18 pm
VJ-
Morning! I’m still trying to wrap my head around all of Shaun’s posts, what with all the logic and common sense they seem to have…so rare on the blog these days- it’s throwing me off a little
Shaun
September 24th, 2009
12:20 pm
Joe McCarthy had the best winning percentage of all time for a manger. Yet, there is a noticeable difference in his record as Yankee skipper versus Cubs skipper and Red Sox skipper.
Connie Mack has the most wins. Yet, there are some drastic inconsistencies in his teams’ records. From 1915-1921, his teams finished in 8th place every season. Did he know how to manage in 1914, forget in 1915-1921, then all of the sudden learn again in the mid to late 1920s?
John McGraw won 815 games more than he lost, the largest margin in history. Yet, his record with the NY Giants is not all that consistent with his record with the Orioles.
Casey Stengal is tied with McCarthy for most World Series wins. Yet, his record outside of 1949-1960 is actually pretty aweful.
If a manager makes as big an impact as you folks seem to think Bobby Cox makes, how do you explain the inconsistencies in the records of great managers?
Wayne in Utah
September 24th, 2009
12:23 pm
RHR
What is the old saying? Something about a king not being appreciated in his own kingdom? I am sure I screwed that one up.
RHR
September 24th, 2009
12:23 pm
But but but but ….
DONKEY!
He picks his nose!!!!
JEFF FRANCOEUR!!!
White Blood Cells
September 24th, 2009
12:24 pm
Shaun,
Didn’t Connie Mack own the team?
RHR
September 24th, 2009
12:26 pm
Wayne – I don’t know that saying but that sounds about right.
Rob from SC
September 24th, 2009
12:28 pm
What I am about to say is going to shock almost everybody on this blog. I now want Jason Heyward to spend the first half of the season in the minors. Getting more minor league at-bats can only be a good thing.
Soph
September 24th, 2009
12:30 pm
Is that really you, Rob?
jim
September 24th, 2009
12:30 pm
I can see in football, and to a lesser extent in basketball, where the “game could pass an older manager/coach by”. In football, offensive alignments and defensive strategies are constantly changing, and each down demands a particular play call and defensive alignment. In baseball, the game remains relatively constant. The manager makes out a lineup, and decides when to make substitutions and pitching changes, but these are the same decisions that a manager makes year-after-year. Even decisions to bunt, steal, or play hit and run, are dictated by the situation and personnel on hand. These types of decisions are no different in today’s game than they were 20 years ago. When Earl Weaver retired, Cal Ripken Sr. inherited a depleted club that lost something like 20 out its first 21 games. The formidable Orioles of the previous years had grown old and even Earl would be waiting for a long time before that 3 run homer would happen. Sparky went from the Big Red Machine to a very formidable Detroit club. His successor did not fare too well either as age and injury took their toll. The essential ingredient for being a great manager is to have great players. The game would have passed Earl Weaver by when the game passed the players he had earlier by.
Shaun
September 24th, 2009
12:30 pm
Didn’t Connie Mack own the team?
I believe so. But what does that have to do with anything. If it’s possible for managers to be primarily responsible for wins and losses, why did his teams have that streak of awfulness? Unless the Cox critics think that Cox is the only manager in the history of the game with the kind of ability to control his teams’ records.
Jake W.
September 24th, 2009
12:32 pm
“Hey, we’ll have a matchup Sunday of the NL starting pitchers with the two highest opponents’ average allowed this season: Livan Hernandez (.309) and Derek Lowe (.299).”-DOB
Hopefully Bobby will have KK ready just in case he needs to save the day. Washington is a better hitting team than the Mets and we all saw what happen to D. Lowe when he didn’t have it together against them.
tiger297
September 24th, 2009
12:33 pm
abwright I couldn’t agree more with you.
If the Braves keep up this pace they could very easily end up with 91 wins (sweep Nats and take 2 of 3 from fish) which is where I expect the Rockies to be if they play as you would expect for the rest of the year (beat brewers but lose to Cards/Dodgers).
We control our destiny with the Marlins the only way they finish ahead of us is if we allow it.
If the Giants play as well as we do then I’m ok with a 3 way tie for the wildcard
Vinings Jim
September 24th, 2009
12:33 pm
cabravesfan – I was going to comment that there have been many sage posts this morning, and then my buddy Rob really does shock and awe me…
O.J.
September 24th, 2009
12:33 pm
Hey, we’ll have a matchup Sunday of the NL starting pitchers with the two highest opponents’ average allowed this season: Livan Hernandez (.309) and Derek Lowe (.299). DOB
Yeah, funny thing is, it will probably end up being a 1-0 game, lol
Jeff R
September 24th, 2009
12:35 pm
Wayne in Utah… Good points. I’m not sure Brandon Hicks is the real deal, but we’ll see how he progresses as he moves up the ladder.
cabravesfan
September 24th, 2009
12:37 pm
I am very concerned about Rob…
There are no words- should we be preparing for the end??
Daslied
September 24th, 2009
12:39 pm
Uggla’s a curious case. In 135 AB at the Ted, he has 8 HR, 13 2B and an OPS of 1.047. His numbers at Turner Field, when compared to other parks in which he has a decent sample size, are by far better than any other park (including Dolphins Stadium).
But in Citizens Bank (Philly), in 132 AB, he only has 3 HR, 5 2B and an OPS of .520.
Of course, his Turner Field numbers might be helped a great deal by the 5-9, 3 HR against Soriano.
Shaun
September 24th, 2009
12:40 pm
Jim, good post and my point exactly. Players mean drastically more to a team than its manager. And I’m guessing there is no one here who can name a manager who consistently won or consistently lost with drastically different teams “on paper.” A manager’s inconsistencies can always be explained by how great or bad the players were. And rarely can players’ performances be obviously linked to managers. If a player performs drastically better or worse than expected, there is usually little to no evidence that the manager had anything to do with it.
White Blood Cells
September 24th, 2009
12:40 pm
Shaun,
I wasn’t debating you, in my mind your argument is valid. I guess I was saying the only reason Mack has the most wins is because he didn’t fire himself.
dmack2027
September 24th, 2009
12:41 pm
Derk Lowe has done what the Braves expected him to do this year. After last year, more than anything else, they needed stablity and a guy who is going to take the ball every fifth day. Derek has done that. Nobody expected him to be an ace. Yes he has gotten hit around some, but he does have 15 wins. That aint half bad.
Shaun
September 24th, 2009
12:44 pm
I wasn’t debating you, in my mind your argument is valid. I guess I was saying the only reason Mack has the most wins is because he didn’t fire himself.
That’s almost certainly true. He also has the most losses; his career record is actually under .500. How else could a manager survive seven consecutive 8th place finishes?
O.J.
September 24th, 2009
12:47 pm
dmack, while that is true that he has 15 wins, Livan Hernandez could have 15 wins with the run support Derek has gotten. Which isnt saying much.
jim
September 24th, 2009
12:47 pm
Under normal circumstances, it is easy to see the Rockies losing 2 out of three to both the Cardinals and Dodger and possibly 1 of the other 4 games they play, but the Cardinals will clinch the Division crown as early as today and the Dodgers may have clinched before the last 3 games of the season, or (worse yet?) after the first game of that series. I hope that those two teams have some incentive to play the Rockies tough, but it may actually be an advantage for the Rockies to be playing the tougher (on paper) schedule at this time of the year. I think tonight’s game against the Padres is huge for the Rockies. With a loss, their lead dwindles to 3 in the loss column, and might cause them to play tight in their remaining games.
Nova Scotia Steve - Goodbye Bobby Cox
September 24th, 2009
12:47 pm
Man…it would be huge if the Padres could somehow take another one from the Rockies tonight. But has anyone noticed the Rockies pitching has shown some major holes.
Jason Marquis who was awesome in the first half has been getting rocked his last 6 starts.
Jorge De La Rosa got rocked by the Padres on Tuesday and they have Hammel going today.
So let’s hope the mini-melt down continues.
And we need some help from St. Louis this weekend who are fighting for some home field advantage and still would want to win ballgames. Although they’ll prolly be resting some of their big guns over the next 10 games.
Go Braves…They’ve made me a believer…regardless of the outcome this season.
monty
September 24th, 2009
12:48 pm
Saw where someone who usually makes very good posts ridiculed someone who said Prado was “solid defensively” at 2nd. I know several on here were clamoring for the Braves to get Orlando Hudson earlier. The Dodgers got him and he has played well there, but just by way of comparison, Prado has played better and will continue to get better as he is only 25 years old and Hudson has seen his best years, as he is 30 something.Most people don’t realize that Prado has only played 267 major league innings at 2nd before this year(about 30 complete games worth). He is still learning and yet his fielding % is .983 this year and Hudson’s is .988. Prado’s minor league fielding % was better than Hudson’s minors. Hudson’s lifetime BA. is .282 OBP .345 Slugg .430 OPS .777. So far in his young major league career Prado’s BA. .305 OBP .356 Slugg .445 OPS .801 which is superior to Hudson’s. Saying someone is “solid” isn’t saying they are the best at their position. But one has to only watch MArtin to know that he has the tools to play it and that he is “solid”. He doesn’t bobble 1/3 of all his PO’s like a certain other Braves 2nd baseman. While maybe not being as fast as a few other 2nd basemen he certainly has cat like quickness as I have witnessed many diving catches on hard hit linedrives.
David O'Brien
September 24th, 2009
12:48 pm
Should point out about Lannan that he’s 5-2 with a 2.81 ERA at home, compared to 4-10 with a 5.42 ERA on the road.
Rob from SC
September 24th, 2009
12:49 pm
Soph
cabravesfan
Vinings Jim
I guess it is the shoulder surgery I am having next Thursday. I might be seeing things more clearly.
Seriously though, we, as Braves fans need Heyward to be the superstar he is expected to be. Let him see more breaking balls and get used to being the main man in a Triple A lineup.
This also allows Matt Diaz to get a shot at an everyday role. He deserves the chance after this year. It would be almost disrespectful to not give Diaz this chance.
Rob from SC
September 24th, 2009
12:50 pm
how bad is my school going to lose by tonight. I would like to see us win, but this might get ugly early. I will be watching from my couch.
richbrave
September 24th, 2009
12:51 pm
For the BC hater’s:
A verse from THE BIG YELLOW TAXI, an old tune by JONI MITCHELL from my younger days “Don’t it always see to go, that you don’t know what you’ve got ’till its gone. They paved paradise, put up a parking lot.”
And a comment from my CUBAN ex-patriate wife. “Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it.”
Just sayin’ haters. Later.
brent a.
September 24th, 2009
12:54 pm
DG –
I hear you.
White Blood Cells
September 24th, 2009
12:54 pm
DOB,
I think he is a tough, talented young pitcher which is why I’m happy our best pitcher is on the mound tonight. When do you sleep Dude?
brent a.
September 24th, 2009
12:54 pm
I think SC-Ole Miss will be a good game.
monty
September 24th, 2009
12:55 pm
dmack2027
“No one expected Lowe to be an ace.”
Yeh, I kind of think they did! At least I did. At least the ace of the Braves staff at 15 mi/yr. I didn’t expect Roy Holiday or Cliff Lee but I did expect him to have pitched much better than he has, yes he has gotten wins, but that has as much to do with if the team scores you runs when you pitch as to just how well you pitched. He’s been the 4th best pitcher on the team stats wise!
wjones
September 24th, 2009
12:56 pm
“Prado eventually replacing Chipper at third? Possible. I don’t know that he would ever generate the sort of power you’d want from that position.
In the past, others have floated the idea of moving Escobar to third. Might work. He’s got a chance to develop into 20-25/90 power guy. Might be easier to find a capable shortstop than a talented third baseman.”
Seriously? I’ve never heard anyone say that shortstops are easier to find than third basemen, especially with comparable offensive abilities.
abwright
September 24th, 2009
12:57 pm
Great managers and great teams …
The only caveat that I can think of on a manager spoiling a team’s efforts is if the manager consistently puts inferior players into the line-up when a better player sits on the bench.
I’m not talking about Matt Diaz versus Jeff Francouer, either.
Managers can look great if they have two good options. For instance, pulling a great pitcher in favor of another great pitcher. Either decision gets the job done.
However, managers who have too poor options always look awful. For instance, if the manager leaves a pitcher in and the pitcher gives it up, he looks bad. If the manager pulls the pitcher and the next pitcher gives it up, he looks bad.
On all of those “bullpen mismanagement” games that Bobby gets criticized for, the criticizer never says what alternative would have worked better. For instance, Bobby pulled Vazquez in the third game of the season in favor of his bullpen. After all, an eight run lead is insurmountable. However, the bullpen managed to cough it up. If Bobby had known that his bullpen couldn’t throw a strike to save its life, he would clearly have let Vazquez go deeper into the game.
Yet, when Bobby sends Soriano into the ninth inning with a four to five run lead, he gets wailed on. Haven’t we learned that the back end of the Braves bullpen can blow any lead? Win today and let tomorrow take care of itself.
Gamec0ckBrave
September 24th, 2009
12:58 pm
DOB, if i wanted to send you a CD of a group may like, how would i go bout that?
Shaun
September 24th, 2009
12:58 pm
I suspect the difference in Lannan’s home and road splits are simply some inexplicable fluke. His worst start of the year came at home on August 22 against Milwaukee. He gave up 7 runs in 1.2 innings (wow). His last home start, September 8th against the Phillies, wasn’t all that great: 4 runs in 6.2 innings.