3:29 pm September 18, 2009, by David O'Brien
September 19th, 200911:58 pm
Why MFIKY should not have been used in that situation:
1) The Braves were 6 runs ahead. No telling how much they’ll need him the next few days. Why pitch him tonight if they didn’t have to?
2) And more importantly… As well as Soriano has pitched this season, he is not death on lefties like he is against righties. He has no “out” pitch for lefties other than his fast ball, and even at 96, he can’t throw that past ‘em every time when they’re looking for it.
There is not a team in baseball that can throw the number of quality LH hitters at you as the Phillies, and they used every one of ‘em tonight. Just about all of ‘em hit the ball hard off him.
Nothing good was going to come out of a Soriano appearance tonight. Imagine how confident he’s going to be if the Braves are up 3-2 going to the 9th tomorrow and Rollins is leading off followed by their other stud lefties.
Cox may have some wonderful managerial qualities, but strategic, big picture thinking ain’t one of ‘em.
Given what the Rockies are doing, I’m afraid Bill Murray’s lament from “Meatballs” is become more and more likely every day.
“It just doesn’t matter.”
TnBrian(Vazquez ace 2010)
September 20th, 200912:00 am
MIBravesFan, I think some on here have the most creative solution that makes the most sense until you realize it will not happen… trading Kawakami. Why would they spend so many years scouting the Japenese market, finally lure one to the US, then trade him after one season? Even I realize that would be a disaterous PR move. FA hitters? Bay/Holliday is just a joke and the next best would be Marlon Byrd, but he’s not exactly “the missing peice” for this team, so sh** if I know.
NO MORE BOBBY
So when I mentioned Phil Garner or Willie Randolph as possible new manager, people said no way on here. Curious to know why you would pass on either of these guys. I personally think both of them would get our young players.
September 20th, 200912:06 am
But TnBrian, do you really think they can get the missing bat in a trade for KK? You can for Javy; you won’t for KK, regardless of the will or not to do the trade by the Braves.
Whoever had that link for blog terminology, it didn’t work.
I know MFIKY refers to Soriano, I still don’t know what it means. And “BF”? WTF is BF?
September 20th, 200912:11 am
And I think it’s the “we have to get the bat via trade” thought process that has some people elsewhere wanting to trade JJ for that bat, but given he is cheap for a few years yet as well as awful darn good, that doesn’t resolve the budget issue.
September 20th, 200912:12 am
MIBravesFan, I’d say if they added another peice or two with KK then they could probably get a good hitter, but I personally can’t see them trading him anyways.
September 20th, 200912:14 am
A BF is a B.+.ch-Fit…
September 20th, 200912:15 am
I don’t envy Frank Wren his winter. I hope for good things, but I don’t know how he’s going to manage it.
I’m in the camp that believes Soriano had no business being in this game.
Yes, it was a must-win game; but Soriano has proven time and time again that he does not pitch well in non-save situations, yet Cox trots him out there in blowout after blowout. These are the games that the Logans, Acostas and Carlyles should be “gettin’ some work in” as Booby likes to say.
At this juncture in the season, Soriano is worn out. As is Gonzo and the Irishman to some degree.
Only the freak of nature, Moylan, seems to be able to take the abuse.
So, what happens tomorrow if the game is tight and Soriano is called upon?
September 20th, 200912:19 am
I’m clueless as to where our coveted RH powerbat is going to come from next year – but we didn’t see Nate McClouth coming, did we?
September 20th, 200912:20 am
Soph – I just saw the VT highlight….the 80 yard play was nice, but the winning TD pass was nicer. The QB had nobody open, and he kept waving his receivers in different directions while two defenders were chasing him until he finally completed it to a diving receiver in the endzone.
And with that, I’m going to bed….busy day tomorrow. Goodnight everyone.
September 20th, 200912:21 am
I thought it was b**** fest?
September 20th, 200912:22 am
And who goes to the grocery store at 12AM/11PM central??
I’ll have to catch it on ESPN tomorrow.
I thought it was b’fest too.
Night, jeffrey! Congrats on your Dawgs winning.
September 20th, 200912:23 am
MIBravesfan, same way he did last yr.
September 20th, 200912:24 am
35,818 on their feet cheering and booing. Good Game
September 20th, 200912:26 am
BossLady, you went to the game, right? I hope you had fun!
September 20th, 200912:30 am
Bobby Cox is the worst bullpen manager in baseball, no question about it.
September 20th, 200912:33 am
Bobby Cox manages his bullpen worse than any other manager, no question about it.
Joe D. loves Marilyn
September 20th, 200912:48 am
14 games left…
Still in it…as we live to see another day…
In my opinion…no worse than 12 – 2…gets you a least a tie for the Wild Card…with a one game playoff…91 wins will tie for the Wild Card…and 92 wins will clinch the Wild Card…
Would be nice to beat Lee and the Phillies on Sunday…or risk being 5 back if the Rockies win…and with them only having 12 games left to play, after Sunday…the Fat Lady is clearing her throat about now, I’m afraid…ESPN has us now with a 6.0% chance of making the playoffs…about right, I think…
Hanson needs to go deep into game Sunday afternoon…save Cox from having to make any serious call the the bullpen…or what is left of it…Peter Moylan will close the next Braves win!!!
Falcons defense…can they stop Carolina running the ball? They do…they win…big score…I think…
And when is Georgia going to show up with a pass defense…not until Willie Martinez is gone?
Amazing that Marquez made it through all 12 rounds with Mayweather…this has to be a unanimous decision for Mayweather…I guess drinking your own urine did not really pay off to well for Marquez? Except, of course…with the $3million + he is taking back across the border…
(and go…whom ever is playing the Marlins, Giants and Rockies…)
September 20th, 20091:02 am
Enter your comments hereBobby Cox manages his bullpen worse than any other manager, no question about it. (DAM)
‘cept the Yankee fans used to claim that distinction for Torre. Evert board hates their manager so why change if they’re all that terrible.
yeah one can always find some excuse to rip the mnager if that’s one’s mind set. Having been around the game I believe it is much more about players getting it done or not.
Whatever, they won. and they are ahead of the pace most predicted .as long as they are fairly competitive that’s all I care about. My life isn’t gonna be any better if they win it all, or any worse if they don’t.
September 20th, 20091:14 am
Night owls? People who watched games on tv all day? People who like to shop with the drunks and tweakers? People who like to avoid crowds?
I’m all of the above.
September 20th, 20091:17 am
“A group of Native American are asking the Washington Redskins to change their name because they find it offensive, so the team will now be known… as the Maryland Redskins”
- Conan O’Brien
September 20th, 20091:19 am
MIBravesFan – I don’t envy Frank Wren this winter. I hope for good things, but I don’t know how he’s going to manage it.
Wren had to know when taking this job this day was going to come where the Bobby decision had to be made. He is hardcore (ask Smoltz and Glavine). Im sure he is going to do just fine. My gut feels like he is not going to have Bobby back but if he does maybe he will load the team so heavy that even Bobby can’t screw it up.
September 20th, 20091:21 am
Sunday – church / Falcons / Braves
I love you Sunday!!!!
September 20th, 20091:24 am
NO MORE BOBBY,
Bobby is coming back if he wants to…
September 20th, 20091:28 am
RHR grats on rootin those Huskies to victory.
September 20th, 20091:34 am
That was a great win for them….they didn’t win a game last year! From 0-15 to upsetting #3 in the 3rd week of the season.
September 20th, 20091:36 am
Those of you who live outside the Southeast have no idea how miraculous it is that the Braves have not had a rainout this week considering how often and hard it’s poured in the Atlanta area.
One of the golf courses not far from the stadium is just about completely under water, and there’s no sign of it letting up. The baseball field my son plays on may not be playable for weeks.
Will be a fun week coming up with the Tour Championship in town. Lots of golf fans will be ruining one or more pair of footwear, assuming East Lake’s lake hasn’t submerged the rest of the course by then. May need scuba gear.
September 20th, 20091:48 am
another easy win for the dawgs, right?
Ghost of Shane Vendrell
September 20th, 20093:39 am
People need to stop saying Wren has a tough decision about keeping Cox. Wren doesn’t have the power to fire Cox, so it isn’t a decision. Kinda like when Rocky Balboa challenged Clubber Lang, Lang couldn’t accept the challenge because it wasn’t a challenge. Got it?
September 20th, 20093:53 am
braves4ever (September 19th, 2009 6:57 pm): “somebody pezz in your corn flakes?
Yunel has blowed off most of the writers this year over such things, I was not serious in jumping on DOB ,just making a funny point!”
September 20th, 20094:23 am
September 19th, 2009
Mixxo, if you’re here:
I know! I’m pumped too.
It's Time for Rhyming Opposites!!!
September 20th, 20095:03 am
red : dead
dimple : pimple
hitter : Chipper
September 20th, 20095:09 am
DAM (September 20th, 2009 12:33 am): “Bobby Cox manages his bullpen worse than any other manager, no question about it.”
You reckon without Trey Hillman, my friend.
He’s even worse.
September 20th, 20095:17 am
Mitchell (September 20th, 2009 12:06 am): “I know MFIKY refers to Soriano, I still don’t know what it means. And “BF”? WTF is BF?”
Oh, that’s simply Tomahawkin’s Boy Friend.
Tomahawkin is an out in the open gay black man.
“Loud and proud.”
September 20th, 20095:38 am
Jimmy Joe (September 19th, 2009 11:47 pm): “I think it’s hilarious that bloggers continue to demand that Wren extends Hudson while no one is asking Wren to extend Vazquez, who is clearly the better pitcher at this point in their careers.”
Hudson is tied for 9th (with Carlos Zambrano) among active pitchers in Adjusted ERA+ (at 126).
Vazquez is tied (with Ryan Franklin, Mike Hampton, Ted Lily, Matt Morris and Arthur Rhodes) for 37th (at 107).
I’d suggest keeping Vazquez in 2010, and decide whether to try to extend his contract after seeing his ST and how he performs early next year. (Unless the Braves can negotiate a club-friendly extension in the upcoming off-season.)
PS: Mariano Rivera is 1st (201), Pedro Martinez is 2nd (154) and Trevor Hoffman is 3rd (147).
September 20th, 20095:49 am
Steve from OH (September 19th, 2009 1:18 pm): “Do I think he’s a lock to stay here? No–if Wren can cut Tom Glavine, he can trade Kenshin Kawakami.”
I think it’s way past time to debunk this particular myth — namely, that since Wren was able to dispassionately cut Smoltz and Glavine, he will be every bit as dispassionate in all his personnel decisions.
First, let me ask — just how personally/professionally/emotionally involved was Wren with the acquisition (or re-acquisition) and development of either Smoltz or Glavine? Practically zero, I’d say.
On the other hand, Wren busted his hump to sign Kawakami — he is deeply invested — personally, professionally and emotionally — in Kawakami’s MLB career with the Braves.
Second, and this is only what I figure — Wren did in fact bust his hump to get Kawakami as a part of a grander scheme, one of which Kawakami is only a part. An indispensable part indeed, and just the first stroke of Wren’s “masterpiece”.
(I know, I know — I’m overstating things here somewhat. But this I believe — Kawakami is a cornerstone, not just another interchangeable building block.)
September 20th, 20096:21 am
McFann Ô (September 19th, 2009 7:12 pm): ” ‘Jones…routinely scores from 1st on a double.’ (R)
“[Except] on those two doubles that BMac hit last Saturday. “
You mean AFTER McCann popped up in the first inning with Jones on first base? Maybe McCann’s subsequent hits caught Jones by surprise?
Fifth inning — McCann’s double was to left field, none out, 4-3 score — no need for Jones to risk the play at the plate with Anderson, Escobar and LaRoche coming up with none out and runners on 2nd and 3rd. And the play was in front of him — I figure we can trust Jones to know what he’s doing there. (Plus, he had just beat out an infield single to SS — with no regard at all to his veteran teammate, McCann promptly doubled on the first pitch he saw. )
Ninth inning — Jones had those notorious base cloggers McLouth and Prado in front of him. What could he do? Plus, McCann waited until the 7th pitch to loft a soft double behind the CFer — even the pitcher was nodding off a little bit by then. All were caught by surprise.
PS: Better yet — blame it on Snitker!
September 20th, 20096:53 am
Rob from SC (September 19th, 2009 1:58 pm): “Chipper hasn’t run hard for years.”
So how come Jones already has TEN infield hits this season, and 24 (so far) in the past three years?
You’re as bad as Jeff321 for simply making stuff up, aren’t you?
Your And Idiot.
And a Hater.
September 20th, 20097:00 am
You, too, TnBrian (September 19th, 2009 2:05 pm).
September 20th, 20098:02 am
Cox added: “Raffy had a rough ninth inning, for whatever reason.”
Coxie, I know this one. The answer is overuse.
Using the same four guys, particularly in 4+ run games tends to do that.
Your pen sucks because: A) everyone outside of the top 4 are really legion ball players (in which case you should have been raising hell with Frank Wren), or B) you didn’t develop them.
I’m no HOF manager, but I’m leaning toward choice B.
Rob from SC AKA - Derek Lowe sucks and Bobby Cox has it out for Escobar
September 20th, 20098:14 am
Tommy Hanson, go win the rookie of the year award this afternoon. We need a victory from you to keep our slim hopes alive. I have 100% confidence in you
September 20th, 20098:24 am
Nice fairy-tale re: KK. We’ll see how that plays out. Meanwhile keep believin’ in the possibilities.
I think LOWE should be skipped a start to try and cure what’s ailing him. Let KK back into the rotation for one round. We don’t need starters blowing up in the first few innings and having to burn the bull-pen. COX does enough of that on his own.
September 20th, 20098:47 am
The road to 90 wins is to pave it with 11 victories. Come on guys, can’t afford to stumble here. Next up the METS. Will hardly make a difference if we lose today. We’d be on 10-2 life-support at that point. The ROCKIES and GIANTS are most accomodating going 5-5 and 4-6 respectively over their past 10 games. Both are sub-.500 within their division. We can do this IF we win for the rookie today.
September 20th, 20099:05 am
From across the world wide web:
I’ve always thought Maddon was bad with Bullpen management It’s completely obvious as the season has gone on. Starting with CLE you could tell he doesn’t make logical decision too often 8/30
May 31, 2009 … Joe Girardi’s bullpen management just drives me crazy.
But then Terry Francona revealed his ugly head and reminded me of how much I dislike his bullpen management skills (or lack thereof).
Too lazy to finish…
September 20th, 20099:17 am
It is very unlikely that management will fire Cox…
1. The team has been fairly competitive this year after a 4 year slump
2. He means too much to this franchise financially. He is a marketing tool that few clubs have given that his name is almost synonymous with “Atlanta Brave”.
3. Players specifically come to Atlanta because they want to play for the legend.
4. It doesn’t hurt that he is a very nice man. He is liked by nearly everyone including those who think he should retire.
5. He is a 100% certain Hall of Famer, he is universally liked, and the guy IS the face of the franchise, so to fire him would be a huge negative PR move. We aren’t talking about just any manager in baseball. You know right off the bat that Liberty Media thinks of this club as an investment. To dump Cox now would cause a significant drop in the club’s value. If you were a potential buyer would you want the club with Cox or without?
Most Braves “fans” do not follow the AJC so they only know what they hear on the 6 o’clock news. I’m talking about families who bring their kids to the ballpark, so-so fans who might come to the ballpark to take in a ballgame because they think it’s “fun”, and people who take pride in knowing there is a baseball club in their community that happened to win 14 years in a row. So most people still think that Bobby is a legend that can do no wrong. To fire him now would be very bad.
If anything, management would ask him to step down if it really was his time, but I seriously doubt that the club is thinking about changing managers. Bobby is going to have to step down himself if he thinks it’s time to retire.
September 20th, 20099:18 am
By the way, in case you are about to bring this up… This ain’t New York…
September 20th, 20099:24 am
Ummmmmmm…… Oh yeah, Bobby’s and idiot.
September 20th, 20099:28 am
Do any of you overuse screamers even realize that Soriano had pitched one freaking inning since September 12? One freaking inning in a week. Hell, he’s probably more rested than any of you.
September 20th, 20099:41 am
Lew. Don’t bring facts into this discussion.
September 20th, 20099:47 am
And they shouldn’t, because it isn’t his fault that they were 10th in slugging in the NL this year.
September 20th, 20099:48 am
richbrave (September 20th, 2009 8:24 am): “Nice fairy-tale re: KK. We’ll see how that plays out.”
Fairy tale, or prophecy?
1-800-Bullpen-Abuse (Overuse Screamer)
September 20th, 20099:52 am
It’s mileage Lew and it’s cumulative … and a six-run lead, c’mon
And let’s talk facts …
Braves | Soriano undergoes season-ending surgery Thursday
Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:44:46 -0700
Updating previous items, The Associated Press reports Atlanta Braves RP Rafael Soriano (elbow) underwent elbow surgery Thursday, Aug. 28, and is expected to be ready when spring training starts in 2009. Dr. James Andrews performed a nerve transposition and removed a small bone spur from Soriano’s right elbow. The 28-year-old finished his injury-marred season with an 0-1 record, three saves and a 2.57 ERA in 14 appearances. He’s been on the disabled list three times this season and last pitched on Aug. 2.
It’s the 68 innings he’s pitched coming off of major arm surgery.
Lew and Danga … where are you on the usage of the rest of the pen? A) A gaggle of bums?, B) Under-developed (or mis-managed)?
September 20th, 20099:53 am
Time to put Soriano on ice. The guy’s just not doing it. I’d rather see Moylan close.
September 20th, 20099:55 am
Lew, Soriano may be rested but he’s not effective, judging from his late season perfomances.
P. W. Hjort
September 20th, 20099:58 am
The Braves have got to keep Vazquez next year. He’s too damn good to let get away.
September 20th, 200910:02 am
P. W. Hjort… Amen. Soome discussion as to whether or not Vazquez is having a career year. I’m inclined to say no. I think he’s maturing as a pitcher and is comfortable in Atlanta.
September 20th, 200910:03 am
bravesfanforever(September 20th, 2009 9:17 am): “It is very unlikely that management will fire Cox…
1. The team has been fairly competitive this year [2009, right?] after a 4 year slump [4 years = 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, right]
The Braves were 90-72 and the NL East division champs in 2005. (Also, they wer 84-78 in 2007.)
“2. He means too much to this franchise financially. He is a marketing tool that few clubs have given that his name is almost synonymous with “Atlanta Brave”.”
I call BS on this — exactly how have the Braves “cashed in” on the marketing of Cox? NObody comes to the games to watch Cox. NObody buts Cox jerseys.
“3. Players specifically come to Atlanta because they want to play for the legend.”
Maybe they used to — not lately though. Ask Anders.
“4. It doesn’t hurt that he is a very nice man. He is liked by nearly everyone including those who think he should retire.”
This is hearsay, unless you know him personally. And beside the point.
“5. He is a 100% certain Hall of Famer, he is universally liked, and the guy IS the face of the franchise, so to fire him would be a huge negative PR move.”
HOF, okay. But then you just repeat yourself.
“We aren’t talking about just any manager in baseball. You know right off the bat that Liberty Media thinks of this club as an investment. To dump Cox now would cause a significant drop in the club’s value. If you were a potential buyer would you want the club with Cox or without?”
DEFINITELY without — that would be a condition of the sale. That way the buyer would not be saddled with that decision.
September 20th, 200910:05 am
“NObody buYs Cox jerseys.”
September 20th, 200910:06 am
No telling what will happen with Cox. If upper management wants hin to go, I hope they handle the situation better than they handled the Glavine booting.
That was a crazy finish in Blacksburg yesterday. All of the Hokie action came in the first 2 minutes & the last 2 minutes. Nebraska blew a coverage on the 85 yard pass & then decided not to blitz on the TD pass(big mistake). Anyway I had a blast & met a lot of good Nebraska folk who made the trip. I’m not sure if I’m hung over or still drunk, lol.
A good victory by the Braves. I see Soriano made it a little interesting in the 9th. Hopefully Hanson brings it today & sends Philly out of town with another loss.
I have one question after skimming the blog, how do you fire a manager after the season when they don’t have a contract for the following season?
September 20th, 200910:08 am
Yeah, Soriano’s was meat last night from overuse. Anybody could see that he was only popping 97 on the gun. Earlier in the year, he was throwing about 117.
Yeap, dead arm for sure.
September 20th, 200910:11 am
Rob from SC AKA – Derek Lowe sucks and Bobby Cox has it out for Escobar –
Do you mean that Cox is showing Escobar his Giant Sized Man Thing?
September 20th, 200910:23 am
It’s great to see McCann swinging the bat better. He has 12 RBI in his last 8 games. That’s a byproduct of McLouth & Prado being on base quite a bit lately. Now if they can just get Chipper going along with the other guys the Braves will have plenty of offense for hopeful run at the Rockies.
It’s a long shot, but they are at least hanging around. A win today would make 9 of 10. They will need a similar result in the next 10 or so, but based on the schedule it’s not crazy to think they could.
September 20th, 200910:24 am
Where do you draw the line? Maybe Soriano is a little tired, so you give him 5 or so days off straight. But you don’t want him to get stale out there. I think managing a bullpen has got to be the most difficult part of managing a team. There are only 2 or 3 guys in a BP who you really trust to keep a game in the W column, and you can’t predict from night to night when you are going to need them. And look at the stats of relievers from month to month or season to season. They are all over the place. Are there managers in baseball who get credit for being a great manager of a bullpen?
September 20th, 200910:35 am
On the career year thing, that’s still up in the air. His best season, as it stands now, would probably be 2009, but a good argument could also be made for 2003. In 2003, he pitched 230 and 2/3 innings with 241 strikeouts, 57 walks, a 3.24 ERA, and a 1.105 WHIP. His ERA+ that year was 139. This year, he’s pitched 204 and 1/3 innings with 222 strikeouts, 43 walks, a 2.91 ERA (143 ERA+), and a 1.042 WHIP. Two other times in his career has he had an ERA at least 25% better than the league’s (125+ ERA+), 2001 and 2007. 2001 was also an excellent season for his rate stats. In 223 and 2/3 innings, he posted 208 strikeouts, 44 walks (4.73 K/BB, second best of his career. Bested only by 2009’s 5.16(!) K/BB ratio), a 3.42 ERA (130 ERA+), and a 1.077 WHIP. He set his career high in wins (16) that season. In 2007, in the AL, he pitched 216 and 2/3 innings with 213 strikeouts, 50 walks (4.26 K/BB, 3rd highest of his career. The 4th would be the 2003 season, which I already discussed), a 3.74 ERA (127 ERA+), and a 1.140 WHIP. The most valuable season he’s had this decade has been 2009. He’s posted a WAR of 6.3–making him by far the most valuable player on the team–this season. The only other time he’s posted a WAR of 6.0 or better was 2003, posting 6.0. In 2007 it was 5.2 and they don’t keep WAR data for years prior to 2002, so I can’t tell what that number was.
Yeah, it’s a career year. But he;s still had similar seasons.
September 20th, 200910:37 am
Soph Yeah, I only claim B-Mac.
LOL! Funny, funny…
Plus, McCann waited until the 7th pitch to loft a soft double behind the CFer
Haha! Wasn’t a “soft” double…the thing almost left the ballpark…but no sweat–BMac totaled last year’s RBI…total last night. He’s got 87 now. Back in April, who’da thunk it? Back in August, who’da thunk it…
I was mostly kidding about Chipper, anyway. I just say that kinda stuff every now and then ’cause of all those people who said that BMac cost Francoeur a “ton” of RBI last year and the years before that…You know how I like to harp on stuff.
September 20th, 200910:39 am
Oh, and BMac’s OBP didn’t go up or down last night–still .349, which is OK. Better than it going down…
Lost a point off his AVG, but that’s OK–just hafta make it up on the next customer.
September 20th, 200910:42 am
JeffR-So you can’t pitch him anymore? Who exactly would you have Bobby put in there? Moylan had already pitched fine and had he [pitched two innings there would have been a hue and cry.. Gonzo is not avaliable. Nunez gave up several runs the night before. Acosta has not been consistent (ever). Medlen has been less than effective in recent outings. Carluyle needed to be saved in case of a rain shortened game where Hanson was lost early like a couple weeks ago. O’Flaherty had pitched three straight nights and shouldn’t even have been warming up when Soriano tanked. Maybe Boone Logan?
So I ask you again. Who would you have chosen to pitch? Soriano was absolutely the only well rested reliever we had. There was no other reasonable alternative. If we can’t count on our $9 million closer, we’re screwed anyway. Aren’t we?
September 20th, 200910:43 am
You can also lump Kawakami with Carlyle. He needs to be used for several innings when needed.
U Can Tell
September 20th, 200910:47 am
You can tell when someone has actually made a thoughtful, inarguable post here. Those are the posts that make a valid point that no one can even begin to disprove.
One example I saw here that was not disputed was the comparison between the performance of business CEO’s with baseball management types.
Hard to argue with the point that a business can’t afford to give their CEO a lifetime contract like some baseball organizations do their management personnel. They can’t afford to keep thanking their CEO for his tenure at the helm during good times when he’s now at the helm of a company he’s leading to
September 20th, 200910:48 am
September 20th, 200910:50 am
DGANG, so does McCann get a rest today? Difficult decision because it is a big game (they all are now when the Braves need to win almost every game to have any chance at all of making October) and he is on a good stretch, but we also have a game on Monday and catchers need rest, so is Ross in for today?
September 20th, 200910:51 am
U Can Tell…How do you explain all those big bonuses that went to the fortune 500 types over the last couple of years?
September 20th, 200910:57 am
Failure? For crying out loud. The Braves have won 9 of their last 11 games. They only won 72 all of last year and have already won 7 more games than all of last year with fourteen games remaining and the Braves playing their best baseball of the season and in the last several years. We have one of the best (if not THE best) rotation in the National League. We are not out of the running to make the playoffs this year (though admittedly it is a slim chance). We have overcome pathetic performances by a rookie (Shafer), a player with tons of ability and no results (Francoeur) and a player who came nowhere close to expectations (KJ) and are still in the running despite a horrendous start a 6 games under .500 (we’re up by ten over .500 now).
Failure? Only in your ability to figure out what the hell you’re talking about. And BTW-Bobby (nor is any other field manager) isn’t the team’s CEO. That job’s covered by the Front Office-you know, the people who went out and totally revamped the starting rotation that tanked last year due to injury-yet another example of Bobby’s failure. Right?
September 20th, 200910:59 am
After that game last night, I am thoroughly convinced that Bobby Cox needs to go, and soon.. Vazquez goes 7 strong innings giving up only 3 hits to a Phillies team loaded with hitters.. Soriano arrives in the 9th and gives 5 hits and 4 runs to almost blow yet another great outing by Vazquez.. He left Soriano in way to long.. Then when Soriano throws a pitch close to the strikeczone and its called a ball, you get the same old Bobby Cox taking his hat off and saying shit under his breath..
That lard has been around baseball long enough to know that if a pitcher isn’t throwing strikes, he won’t get a borderline pitch.. Yet he and Soriano complain about it.. Nice to see Soriano show his true colors right before he becomes a FA, and we have known this side of Cox for a while now.. I am looking forward to neither of these guys being a part of the Braves team next season..
September 20th, 200911:00 am
The argument made here earlier was that they could get away with being over compensated during their time with the company, but their performance would eventually be judged as success or failure. Can’t afford to say you led the company to the pinnacle in 1995 so you are the CEO for life!
That is just plain idiotic logic!
No accountability for recent performance in some baseball circles it seems.
September 20th, 200911:01 am
I refer to Lew’s post.
September 20th, 200911:02 am
defer? At any rate. What Lew said.
September 20th, 200911:07 am
I don’t know what experience you’ve had in the business world, Lew…. but from my experience at working in that environment, the blame can only be laid at the feet of circumstances and bad luck for a limited period of time.
The company may downsize, some services may be combined, but the bottom line is that the peons will continue to grease the wheels to make sure the process continues. Life at the top comes with great reward but it also comes with great peril.
In business, like in sports, you can’t fire all the players so the manager has to answer for performance. Unless of course you’re running a country club like the Braves instead of a business.
Yeah, it’ll be int’resting to see if BMac plays today. But with LH’er Cliff Lee going for the Fillies, this might be a good day to let him rest…
September 20th, 200911:13 am
CEO being the representative example of upper management…. not the specific title of Bobby Cox. At any rate, seldom will you see the CEO sacked before he sacks his subs in an attempt to save his own scalp. That would be Cox.
But again….the Braves aren’t the classic business example, especially since they’ve awarded their field manager a lifetime contract based on his performance in the last century!
September 20th, 200911:17 am
Well, now we have to define success. We have already eclipsed our win total from last year and have a reasonable chance to have our best season since 2005. Is improvement success? What would have been considered success at the beginning of the season after last year’s debacle?
And BTW….. I don’t like the fact that Supreme Court Justices can serve even when they are senile and unable to think logically. Another great example of a lifetime appointment.
So Bobby is like a Supreme Court Justice in that respect.
September 20th, 200911:18 am
To most, success is not defined as simply not sucking as bad as you did last year.
September 20th, 200911:19 am
I’m not going to debate business knowledge or acumen with a nameless blog entity. Suffice it to see I’ve been a retail manager and run a store by myself. The manager keeps the doors open and makes sure that the store is staffed. It’s up to the upper management to see to financing and making sure you have the personnel needed to run the show. You always try to improve your bottom line and sometimes, lack of business due to economic reasons (which can influence personnel and inventory matters) is totally beyond the manager’s purview. Sometimes the employees don’t do what they should-they can call in sick or just not show up or not work once they are there . You can gt rid of them sometimes (not always with labor laws as they are) and you can try to find others who will perform better. Those paragons are not always available.
Not the manager’s fault. You work with what you have, motivate to the best of your abilities and you try to do what ever you can to improve performance. However, if the CEO isn’t providing the essentials necessary for success, there’s not much you can do about it. Of course, you can’t fire ownership and it’s much harder to fire the Front Office. But in this society, we must have our scapegoats and sacrificial lambs.
September 20th, 200911:20 am
September 20th, 200911:22 am
Actually, Bobby had success for the first six years of THIS century, too-even if the success didn’t equate to your own warped visions of what success in professional baseball should be. Of course, why let facts intrude on the emotional crap being spewed?
September 20th, 200911:29 am
Lew, according to your argument, I can see why you USED to be a retail manager. If the store is under performing, the company has two choices. Close the store or change the management of the under performing store! I don’t see the Braves closing so they should consider option #2.
Good stuff coming from an under performer such as yourself!
September 20th, 200911:33 am
Very mature. Rather than come up with an intelligent rebuttal resort to personal attacks. I especially love how you limit the choices to make your chosen answer the only viable option.
September 20th, 200911:37 am
Lew, I guess you’re right about success in THIS century. A company that is happy just holding their bottom line is doomed to failure, that is a fact! That is what the yardstick has been in Atlanta. It’s not surprising based on their satisfaction with just “getting there,” that the downturn would soon follow. The only exception to just holding the bottom line in business is during a time of historical recession like we are currently experiencing. Under those circumstances, simple survival is acceptable.
The recession has not forced Bobby Cox to fail. He was failing before the recession!
September 20th, 200911:40 am
Actually, I left retail because I had just finished a six month stretch in which I was the only employee and had just finished working an entire Christmas rush by myself, every hour the freaking store was opened. Also, you might not be aware of it, but I’m an artist (portrait painter) and I am infinitely more desirous of working in my chosen field than having to work for the family who originated The Home Shopping network (so much for failure, right?) at less than I make working on what I choose to,or working for people who truly appreciate what I do. But, yet again, your head is so far up your intestinal tract you can’t see the light of day. Awfully hard to appreciate sunshine when all you’ve looked at for most of your life is hemorrhoids.
September 20th, 200911:44 am
Go ahead a rant on if you desire. Those with half a brain realize you have little inkling of what you’re talking about. I will no longer throw soap to you or your unwashed minions. All you do is eat the soap in your feeding frenzy and blow bubbles.
“success didn’t equate to your own warped visions of what success in professional baseball should be. Of course, why let facts intrude on the emotional crap being spewed?”
Danga? So I’m the one who first resorted to personal attacks?
You’re a trip! Speaking of warped visions! lmao
September 20th, 200911:45 am
This discussion doesn’t even make sense anymore. I’m finished. Catch you guys a little closer to gametime.
Close the store or change the management of the under performing store!
Except, of course, that the Braves aren’t an “underperforming store”. Very little high-quality merchandise for sale on the offensive aisles, and yet the “store” is still bettering same-store performance year-over-year.
Maybe you should try another analogy. Or re-read the books. Or something.
September 20th, 200911:48 am
A retail manager who is working ALONE since there is no one else to work, doesn’t exactly sound like experience working for a Fortune 500 company. I take that back. I suppose Wah Wah might be a Fortune 500 company.
September 20th, 200911:54 am
So, I am not actually gone yet. If there is anything I learned growing up with a younger brother, it is that another person’s behavior is not an excuse for your own. The he started it excuse just doesn’t fly.
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