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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
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TnBrian
September 16th, 2009
12:31 am
Doc Holliday, you’re getting me excited and I’m mad at you for it, DAMNIT! I’ve had all the ups and downs a fan should ever have these last few years, especially this year, so this is a fine line for me.
Coxlover
September 16th, 2009
12:31 am
If the Braves somehow make the playoffs this year it will truly be a miracle.
Doc Holiday
September 16th, 2009
12:36 am
TnBrian,
Rockies are about to lose their 4th in a row………they might never find the light again………..hopefully for us.
Doc Holiday
September 16th, 2009
12:37 am
TnBrian,
A team that loses 4 in row late in september can easily go 9-9 in their last 18.
David O'Brien
September 16th, 2009
12:41 am
We sign MATT HOLLIDAY for 18 million, trade KAWAKAMI and his payroll which is what 7.2 million? Add 11 million to the 2010 payroll. With raises the payroll should be in the 110-113 million range. — richbrave
richbrave: What have you seen from this ownership group or from what team officials have said in recent years leads you to believe they are going to increase the payroll by about $20 million in one offseason? Because you sure are seeing or hearing different signs than I am.
You really think there’s a good chance the Braves would pay Holliday and Chipper more than $30 million combined next season? That’s one-third of this year’s payroll. (That’s what they’d pay the two of them if they give Holliday a deal with an $18-mill-per-season salary, which is probably at least what it would take to sign him.)
They’d be paying three guys (Holliday, Chipper, Lowe) more than $45 million, or half of this year’s payroll.
David O'Brien
September 16th, 2009
12:41 am
Ol ‘Rochy’s making himself some cash, ain’t he? Really is startling, the difference in the man’s career first- and second-half numbers…
So after Hanson’s gem, did anyone here watch the new episode of Sons of Anarchy? The show’s rock-solid so far in its second season. Stage is set for so much bloodshed and drama in coming weeks. Great stuff.
Luman Harris...I could out manage Bobby Cox today...and I have been dead for 12 + years...
September 16th, 2009
12:42 am
Pete…
The Point is that after tonight…Atlanta would trail Colorado by 4 games in the LOSS column. Not real hard to understand. And yes, while they have 2 fewer games after tonight than the Braves…the loss column is all that matters. We have 68 losses and they have 64. Sure the Giants are also ahead with only 66 losses…so yes, we are going to need lots of help! But we are still in it…as long as we keep winning…or if you like, do not lose.
Games left:
Atlanta……18…could we win 14 or 15…down the stretch? Would be a minor miracle!
San Fran…17…need to win no more than 10 or 11. Could happen.
Colorado…16…need to win no more than 8 or 9. Yea. Could happen.
And do not forget the Cubs and Marlins…Cubs are playing well again…and they are also dreaming of post season baseball.
Raising the bar now…as 90 wins may not be enough to capture the Wild Card…and remember…there could be a two-way tie…or worse…(guess you would go to a tie-breaker…is there one with three teams…or more?)
Bottom Line…Wild Card is really the only hope…unless the Phillies just bomb out…and do you really see that…catching a team you are 8 games back in the loss or a team you are only 4 back?
Believe!!!
Selah…
TnBrian
September 16th, 2009
12:46 am
Doc Holiday, that is very true. Weird as it sounds though, I’m still excited even if they don’t make it to the playoffs this year.
When your team throws out the old scrubs like Glavine/Smoltz and building a nucleus of McCann/Escobar/Hanson/Heyward and whatever else will be coming, we’ve seen this movie before and it started a 14 year long ride. Not saying that’s going to happen again, but you can feel something good with this team moving ahead.
Pete
September 16th, 2009
12:46 am
Doc, you keep talking about the Rockies losing 4 in a row, then maybe going 9-9 (even though they have only 16 games left lol). Why no mention of the Giants? Braves have to beat 3 teams in the WC, not just 1. Huge difference, especially when we dont play San Fran and Rockies anymore this year.
TnBrian
September 16th, 2009
12:49 am
Left out Jurrjens who I think should be the ace next year… whatever that means, but he’s damn good.
Doc Holiday
September 16th, 2009
12:53 am
Pete,
8-8 it is then.
I dont mention the other teams cause we can catch them teal quick………not so the rockies.
Firearm
September 16th, 2009
12:55 am
BTW, looking back on this thread, LMAO at whoever brought up Nelson Payano. We actually picked him up (we being Chunichi, a.k.a. Kenshin’s former team). He hardly ever plays; partly because rotations are managed so that the starter pitches 8+ innings, and partly because he sucks.
P. W. Hjort
September 16th, 2009
12:55 am
Theoretically, if the Braves could somehow rid themselves of the Lowe contract they could probably make a play for Holliday and keep payroll under $100 million. The payroll would look something like this (leaving $5 million for a reliever):
SP - Kawakami $7,333,333.00
SP - Javier Vazquez $11,500,000.00
SP - Tim Hudson $12,000,000.00
SP - Jair Jurrjens $400,000.00
SP - Tommy Hanson $400,000.00
RP - Peter Moylan $1,500,000.00
RP - Reliever??? $5,000,000.00
RP - Eric O’Flaherty $400,000.00
RP - Manny Acosta $400,000.00
RP - Kris Medlen $400,000.00
RP - Boone Logan $400,000.00
RP - Craig Kimbrel $400,000.00
C - Brian McCann $5,666,666.00
1B - Martin Prado $400,000.00
2B - Kelly Johnson $3,750,000.00
SS - Yunel Escobar $400,000.00
3B - Chipper Jones $13,000,000.00
LF - Matt Holliday $18,000,000.00
CF - Nate McLouth $5,000,000.00
RF - Jason Heyward $400,000.00
BC - David Ross $1,600,000.00
UT - Omar Infante $1,850,000.00
UT - Brooks Conrad $400,000.00
OF - Matt Diaz $3,000,000.00
OF - Ryan Church $3,750,000.00
Total 2010 Payroll $97,349,999.00
Of course, you can skip the reliever and figure uses for Schafer (possibly trading McLouth) and decide to dump a few arbitration eligible players (KJ, Church come to mind) and grab a 1B–perhaps LaRoche–as well as Holliday. There’s a lot of interesting things Wren can do this off-season. I don’t know if trading Lowe is even a remote possibility (probably isn’t) or signing Holliday is (probably isn’t, though if I were Wren, he would be my guy, he’s perfect for the Braves). But there’s loads of flexibility in this team due to the pitching surplus and reliever and 1B contracts coming off the books.
Pete
September 16th, 2009
12:57 am
Luman: “Bottom Line…Wild Card is really the only hope…unless the Phillies just bomb out…and do you really see that…catching a team you are 8 games back in the loss or a team you are only 4 back?”
You misstate the issue when you say……. “or a team you are only 4 back” because you do not consider the Giants in that scenario. Also you dont take into account the Braves have no games left with the Rockies (or Giants), while they have 3 left with Philly. By that I mean the Braves, at least to a certain extent, control more of their own destiny in the Division as opposed to the WC.
Joe D. loves Marilyn
September 16th, 2009
12:59 am
Something to ponder…
With all these what ifs…and the like…would it not be great if those 4 games in October with the Nationals really could mean something?
It would really be a bummer if we miss the Wild Card by 1 or 2 games…
Long winter for some…Bobby Cox, you in particular…I’m afraid. You have had more than a nice run (HOF…for sure) and I hope we somehow make the playoffs this year…
However, what would a Fredi Gonzalez have done with this team…or even a Ned Yost? Maybe, sooner or later…we may find out.
Luman Harris...I could out manage Bobby Cox today...and I have been dead for 12 + years...
September 16th, 2009
1:11 am
Pete…
Really do not misstate anything, I believe. I said we need some help. Giants do have 3 games with the Dodgers, 3 with the Cubs, 6 with Arizona, 3 with San Diego and only 1 left with Colorado.
Say the Giants sweep the Rockies…and would be only 1 back in the loss column…then we need for them (Giants) to start losing to the remaining teams left on their schedule…same with Cubs, Rockies and Marlins…we need help…lots of it…for the Wild Card. But, we are still alive as it stands now. Could all be moot after the weekend. I believe we need to finish out a no less than a .778 clip (14-4) and that would only get us to 90 wins. May need more than that. that is why you play the games left…one at a time…how cliche’…but so true.
Destiny. Winning the East would require the Phillies to go no better than 7 – 12 down the stretch and I just do not buy that. Not after playing .580 ball thus far.
We will see!
Playoff Hopes
September 16th, 2009
1:13 am
Cause a part of me is dead and in the ground.
This love is killing me,
But you’re the only one.
It’s not over.??????
Frank Wren
September 16th, 2009
1:19 am
UT – Brooks Conrad $400,000.00
Brooks Conrad? Are you kidding? He is terrible.
P. W. Hjort
September 16th, 2009
1:30 am
Frank Wren -
Brooks Conrad? Are you kidding? He is terrible.
Is that a joke? If so, I don’t get it. If not, troll harder.
GermanBravesFan
September 16th, 2009
1:50 am
This just in: Mike Hampton out for the 2010 season!
Frank Wren
September 16th, 2009
1:55 am
Not a joke. The guy had one good week and is a career AAA player at best.
Ill give you an example. He hit a HR off a guy earlier this year. That pitcher is no longer in baseball.
He has a career avg of .237 and if he played more it would be a lot less. He is a poor mans Pete Orr
P. W. Hjort
September 16th, 2009
2:00 am
So I post a roster of 25 people and you pick the 2nd string utility player to pick on? Of the 25 people on that hypothetical roster, Brooks Conrad and Manny Acosta are battling for most irrelevant. The Braves wouldn’t be asking Conrad to be Joe Morgan, they’d ask him to do a decent enough job of being the 2nd string utility player. Face it, you’re just threadshitting.
P. W. Hjort
September 16th, 2009
2:01 am
So I post a roster of 25 people and you pick the 2nd string utility player to pick on? Of the 25 people on that hypothetical roster, Brooks Conrad and Manny Acosta are battling for most irrelevant. The Braves wouldn’t be asking Conrad to be Joe Morgan, they’d ask him to do a decent enough job of being the 2nd string utility player. Face it, you’re just threadsh!tting.
Will
September 16th, 2009
2:03 am
I for some dumb reason feel like the Braves are still in this, and i am the first to be a pessimist. Although that random 5 game losing streak 10 days ago is prob gonna do them in. All i do know is i am going to Vegas thursday and am puttin my first bet of the wknd on Jurrjens over the mets!!
Rafael (hardly ever confused with Manny) Ramirez
September 16th, 2009
2:40 am
Rockies lose. Braves 4 back in the loss column.
Still have a chance…barely. ESPN has us now with a 5.3% chance of making the playoffs. What were the Phillies chances with 2 1/2 weeks to go back in 2007? They were 5 back in the loss column on 9/15 and on 9/30 they were 1 game ahead…stuff happens…and Braves just need lot’s of (good) stuff to happen!
That is why the next 2 1/2 weeks should be fun. Or at least as we keep winning…if not…come on FALCONS!
The Bird and Indian
September 16th, 2009
3:32 am
It’s nice to be back. I have a slim hope of still making the playoffs but if not, Go Tech and Go Saints!
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 16th, 2009
6:45 am
Nice work, PWHjort. Thanks for laying it out.
Friendly amendments: I think we need LaRoche and Holliday (or Bay), and I see where to get it. Nontender Kelly and Church, which saves $7.5m. Insert Conrad in the second utility spot (Infante is signed). Re-sign Diaz, bring up Schafer and Heyward – not in key roles, but splicing them into the third OF spot. That way we see if one or both of them can handle it but the 3rd outfield spot doesn’t kill us, like the 2nd and 3rd did the first two months this year. Diaz gives you the flexibility to do that.
I don’t see anybody taking Lowe (or more precisely, Lowe’s contract) off our hands unless we eat a big portion of that contract. At $12m, he’s probably moveable. Adds $3m of dead money to our payroll, but it’d be worth it. Otherwise, I think you have to move Vazquez, which kills me. Whaddaya think of eating a piece of Lowe’s contract?
It’s funny – Lowe’s going to win 15, 16 games and eat 220 innings, which is what we hired him to do, but he’s clearly the weak link. Nice problem to have.
Oh, and Kawakami at $7m is a value. Can’t understand the folks who have denigrated him on here. ERA under 4.00 and a dragonslayer who obviously likes the big games? C’mon.
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 16th, 2009
6:48 am
Oh, and DFA Norton. Might want to do that now so Bobby’s not tempted to PH him in a game that costs us the playoffs these last few weeks.
Rob from SC
September 16th, 2009
6:56 am
Great game by Tommy Hanson and Adam LaRoche. Hanson keeps getting better at putting away hitters. He made David Wright look horrible. Kid is really good.
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 16th, 2009
7:00 am
You know, PW, Frank’s pretty good. Aggressive. Got the pitching we needed and when some of his gambles came up snake eyes he moved aggressively to address them.
Hope the allure of St. Louis doesn’t lock us out of Holliday. Great baseball city, but so’s Atlanta.
It might be time to do some of those arbitration buyout contracts for Hanson and Jurrjens, too.
Steve from OH
September 16th, 2009
7:23 am
It might be time to do some of those arbitration buyout contracts for Hanson and Jurrjens, too.
Stil think it’s too early for Hanson, but if so, they’d better be making close to the league min next year, because we can’t afford to be giving significant raises to guys that aren’t in line for them.
RHR
September 16th, 2009
7:37 am
Theoretically, if the Braves could somehow rid themselves of the Lowe contract they could probably make a play for Holliday and keep payroll under $100 million. The payroll would look something like this (leaving $5 million for a reliever):
There is ZERO chance the Braves can “rid themselves” of the Lowe contract so why think about/type all that? And Holliday? Oh boy. I hope this isn’t beaten to death until he signs somewhere else because there is no way the braves are realistically even in that discussion. And those calling for LaRoche to hit cleanup? Unless you just mean for the last 18 games then you should probably take into consideration that he doesn’t wake up until July every year so good luck with him in the cleanup spot.
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 16th, 2009
7:49 am
RHR: Wait a minute. The Braves DO need a Holliday-like RH bat to hit cleanup and they CAN be in the discussion with a $100m payroll. The key is dealing about $12m of payroll, and I’m fairly certain somebody would gladly take Vazquez off our hands.
The question is, if we ate $3m of Lowe’s annual salary, could we move Lowe? Lowe at $12m is pretty attractive, I should think. He’s going to win 15 or 16 and has averaged 200 innings/year for nine years. Worth a try, I think.
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 16th, 2009
7:56 am
And RHR, I love LaRoche at five or six. Four only after July. But if you get Holliday or similar you don’t have to worry about hitting him fourth.
McLouth
Prado
CJones
Holliday
McCann
LaRoche
Escobar
Diaz (splice in Schafer and Heyward, perhaps)
P
Yes?
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 16th, 2009
8:00 am
Steve, I think what they usually do with those contracts is to keep them a little above what the minimums would be for the amount of service time but also give them, like, a million bucks up front so they get a nice “thank you/attaboy” and some money to buy a house and a nice truck or whatever.
So it wouldn’t be a big financial commitment beyond what they’d do going year to year and the only way the team loses is if the player doesn’t continue to develop. The Indians started that with their early 90s teams. Worked with Albert Belle, not so much with Dave Otto. So you have to be careful, but I certainly think we’ve seen enough of Hanson and Jurrjens to take that risk.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
8:02 am
Good morning Braves fans (Well at least for you guys). That was the most I’ve seen of Hanson in one setting and I have to say the kid has some special stuff. Very impressive. If you don’t believe me just ask the Mets broadcasters. Hernandez who many on here despise gave high praise and trust me he’s not one to just spew that stuff unless he means it.
Now for the bad news for you guys. With 5 games left against the Mets they just might make Adam Laroche completely unaffordable for the Braves. As Hernandez so aptly put it as Laroche lined the ball into the right field corner for his 4th extra base hit of the night ” What a salary drive, huh?”
Anders
September 16th, 2009
8:09 am
Steve from Ohio – My Rangers opened up their pre-season last night at the Garden. It was good to see some hockey again. I forgot the NHL is breaking for the Olympics again this winter. I hate that as much as I hate the WBC. Probably more because it’s serious hockey right in the middle of the season. To think Lundquist is going to play about 8 games in two weeks at Stanley Cup pace in February for another team is frightening to me.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
8:24 am
Hello? Anyone?
Donny Corleone
September 16th, 2009
8:31 am
They sleep with the fishes.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
8:34 am
Wow, and I get accused of not showing up when the Braves win. How would anyone know?
Anders (Playing the role of the Braves fan until someone shows up)
September 16th, 2009
8:41 am
Hanson absolutely crushed your Mets! He made Wright look helpless. You guys won’t win for another 100 years. You have no farmu system. You spend too much money. Your GM is and idiot. You guys love them latino players.
Jeff R
September 16th, 2009
8:43 am
A lot of the posters have packed it in for the season, I imagine.
Well, I state the obvious – again. Hanson was brillant last night. Sutton’s right: the guy pitches older than he is. He and Jurrjens are going to be a premiere tandem in the Major Leagues.
McLouth is finishing strong, it seems. And LaRoche always as a superior second half. Wren needs to focus on re-upping him.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
8:46 am
Can we let Hanson pitch for more than an hour before we make him Bob Gibson? Wright wasn’y wearing his special helmet – what did you expect? 100 years? And Cox will still be managing your club then. Who needs a farm system – we resurrect old Braves cast aways. Wait till next year on the money – that may change. Our GM – well, not his best work this year. Hey they guilt that whole taco mex stand at Citifield. Someones got to attract customers to that place.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
8:48 am
Hey Jeff. I was just starting to feel like Tom Hanks in “Castaway”.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
8:49 am
Oh crap, now Jeff’s gone. Am I dreaming this?
Lew
September 16th, 2009
8:53 am
Anders-Would you rather have Johan and his salary or Hanson and his future? I’m going cheap on this one.
bravesgrl4life
September 16th, 2009
8:54 am
LOL @ Anders. Man, that 8:41 post was fantastic. You are the best of the “others” fans that come on this blog.
Jeff R – you are right, the blog is a bit tiny these days ’cause a lot of the regulars have thrown in the towel. Too bad for them as they are missing the fun. And we all have to admit, it was fun to see them sweep St. Louis and beat the poor Mets last night. The Houston game was really a joy right up to when Bobby pulled Tommy out. After that, it was just painful. But, 6 of the last 7, not bad. Now, lets win the rest of them, guys.
Have a great Wednesday, all. I gotta get some work done today since I am off after tomorrow @ 1
Yeah! Trace Adkins/Toby Keith concert tomorrow night and a day off to recover on Friday!!!!
brent a.
September 16th, 2009
8:57 am
We can debate magic numbers, other team’s records, etc., it still comes down, first and foremost, to the Braves winning. The Braves do not control their own destiny; however, if the Braves win out (which they won’t), they are probably gonna come real close to taking the Wild Card, if not winning it by a few games.
Keep winning. As long as they do, there will be hope until at least the last week of the season.
Most likely, they go out and lose a couple of games here real soon, while simultaneously, the Rockies and or Giants go out and win a couple in a row. And then, everyone will talk about how “it’s over” all over again.
Meanwhile, winning makes strange things happen in the standings. It gives you hope. Another game tonight. Just win, and see what happens out west.
McFann :Ô:
September 16th, 2009
9:04 am
Well, BMac’s AVG and OBP didn’t change at all…
But LaRoche’s SLG went up TWENTY POINTS with those 4 extra-base hits! He had 12 total-bases last night! Hey, ya know, that guy might make a good cleanup hitter, at least in the second-half of the season.
Georgie
September 16th, 2009
9:07 am
I love Chipper’s attitude. He is right. He will and should step aside if he is not playing GREAT baseball. No place for mediocracy. Where would this team be today if we had one 30 plus home run position player. Those players carry most teams. they are a threat to put two three runs on the board with one swing of the bat. It appears to be the only missing element for the braves.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
9:09 am
Anders-Would you rather have Johan and his salary or Hanson and his future? I’m going cheap on this one (Lew)
What does Johan have to do with this? I personally have no problem with him, what was traded to get him or what the Mets are paying him. Let’s not put Hanson in that conversation comparing him to the likes of Johan just yet.
Hanson shows great promise but let’s let him pitch for a bit, let the players get a book on him, see how he holds up after a couple of years of 35 starts etc.. He may do just fine but I think you’re a bit premature to imply you’d toss Santana to the curb for Hanson.
If it’s just a money discussion well then that’s different. Based on that you’d take Wright over Chipper – correct?
Hillbilly
September 16th, 2009
9:16 am
Anders, funny stuff, but you would make a crappy Braves fan. You didn’t even make one single outrageous trade proposal. Didn’t list out a proposed 25 man roster for 2010, complete with fantasy acquisitions and hometown discounts. Didn’t misspell Hanson’s name. Didn’t blame Bobby for one single play. Your and amateur…a fairweather Braves fan.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
9:17 am
Hillbilly- I didn’t ask if anyone had todays line up yet either. Damn, dropped the ball on that one.
Soph
September 16th, 2009
9:18 am
Did you guys see the Yankees/Jays brawl?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290915110
Tell It Like It Is
September 16th, 2009
9:22 am
The following post is very interesting:
P. W. Hjort
September 16th, 2009
12:55 am
Theoretically, if the Braves could somehow rid themselves of the Lowe contract they could probably make a play for Holliday and keep payroll under $100 million. The payroll would look something like this (leaving $5 million for a reliever):
SP – Kawakami $7,333,333.00
SP – Javier Vazquez $11,500,000.00
SP – Tim Hudson $12,000,000.00
SP – Jair Jurrjens $400,000.00
SP – Tommy Hanson $400,000.00
RP – Peter Moylan $1,500,000.00
RP – Reliever??? $5,000,000.00
RP – Eric O’Flaherty $400,000.00
RP – Manny Acosta $400,000.00
RP – Kris Medlen $400,000.00
RP – Boone Logan $400,000.00
RP – Craig Kimbrel $400,000.00
C – Brian McCann $5,666,666.00
1B – Martin Prado $400,000.00
2B – Kelly Johnson $3,750,000.00
SS – Yunel Escobar $400,000.00
3B – Chipper Jones $13,000,000.00
LF – Matt Holliday $18,000,000.00
CF – Nate McLouth $5,000,000.00
RF – Jason Heyward $400,000.00
BC – David Ross $1,600,000.00
UT – Omar Infante $1,850,000.00
UT – Brooks Conrad $400,000.00
OF – Matt Diaz $3,000,000.00
OF – Ryan Church $3,750,000.00
Total 2010 Payroll $97,349,999.00
There are 11 players on the list making the minimum salary of $400,000. Those players include Hanson, Jurrgens,Escobar,Prado and Heyward. Infante makes $1.85 million. No salaries were provided for Gonzalez and Soriano.Including McCann($5,66 million) these are the Braves best players? If McLouth,Diaz,Johnson and Church are being paid between $3 million to $5 million, then what do you think that the minimum salary guys will be worth on the open market? Do you believe that Liberty Mutuals $100 million salary cap can be met when these guys are paid what they are worth? I would bet that the other major league teams are licking their chops waiting for the opportunity to get one or two of these guys. That’s especially true if the Braves role the dice and sign Hudson for $12 million and Holiday for $18 million. Now I know why they did not bring up Heyward. That gives them another year to pay him $400,000. Does any one know how many years a player has to make the minimum salary? What a racket. It IS What It IS.
Lew
September 16th, 2009
9:26 am
Anders-It wasn’t a put down on Johan or a trick question. It was exactly what it seemed-a simple question.
As for letting Hanson pitch more-Well, duh, Dude. However, you may remember that Efrim and I (probably one or two others as well) have been trying to tell everyone here for three years that what we’ve seen so far is what we knew we’d be seeing. The Kid dominated at EVERY level.
Do I really think he’ll eventually win 80% of his games with an ERA in the mid twos? Hell no. But I expect he will win a Cy Young Award and be the staff Ace for years to come. Definitely, I believe he will give you much more bang for the buck than Santana will, Have you really gotten your money’s worth so far?
Lew
September 16th, 2009
9:29 am
Anders-Hell yeah, I’d take Wright as our third baseman. Want to trade him for Kawakami and Kelly Johnson?
CB
September 16th, 2009
9:30 am
Lew, just wanted you to know, saw your painting of Hank Aaron for the first time and it is absolutely beautiful. Thanks for sharing your talent.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
9:33 am
Soph – Posada came off pretty lame in that dust up with the Jays last night. The Yanks drilled two Jays already. One, ok. Two, “chore askin for trouble” as Tony Montana would say. Then Posada throws that lame elbow after crossing the plate. Even the Ump called it a cheap shot. When’s the last time an ump came down so clearly on one side of somthing like this?
After the game Posada said ” I just hope my kids don’t see it”. I hope he was talking about the cheap shot he took to start the fracas.
BTW- Did you see how fast Joe Girardi got in there? That guy is a bomb waiting to explode.
DAP
September 16th, 2009
9:37 am
RHR, the braves could easily be player for holliday if they wanted to be. but, i dont think trading lowe is how you do it. i dont think he is going anywhere.
Soph
September 16th, 2009
9:39 am
Anders -
Yup, agree with you on Posada. Ump was right – it was a cheap shot. The Jays pitcher had a nasty bump and bruise on his head afterwards too, not sure if any punches connected with him or if he hit his head on something.
Gov Clinton Tyree
September 16th, 2009
9:42 am
DAP – Well, one of those big pitcher contracts is how you do it, either Vazquez or Lowe. Like most, I’d prefer it be Lowe. Again, why not eat $3m of salary on Lowe and see if someone bites?
Anders
September 16th, 2009
9:49 am
Lew- Hanson certainly looks like the real deal. No doubt there. But come on, he’s been in the league about an hour. Clearly he’ll be an effective starter, but to assume he’ll be an elite Cy Young winner for years to come is a little premature. This is a hard game. He’s flown a bit under the radar. Give the hitters some credit that they’ll make adjustments and then let’s see how he handles that. Hey, if I was betting (which I don’t) I’d say he has a better than 75% chance of being a star. As for Cy Youngs etc – who knows?
Again, I have no problem with the Santana deal. None. The guy is one of the premier pitching studs in baseball. Did you see last September? Some of the greatest pitching performances I can remember. Would have been legendary if the Mets could have pulled it out on the last day. He’ll be back fine next year. He’s had this same elbow clearing surgery before and rebounded with one of his best years. I don’t think Santana is the guy you want to poke at imo.
timthebrave
September 16th, 2009
9:49 am
I went to the game last night. Hanson and Laroche were awesome. The first Laroche hr went straight over my head. No rain at the ball park. 1 down 18 to go. Go Braves
RC
September 16th, 2009
9:54 am
Gov Clinton Tyree,
It’s not as easy as eating $3 mil of Lowe’s contract and trying to trade him. You also have to deal with the fact that a) his contract is 2 years longer than Vazquez’s and b) Vazquez is nearly 5 years younger than Lowe.
RC
September 16th, 2009
9:57 am
Anders,
I agree with your point on Hanson that nobody is guaranteed anything in the future, and to say someone will win “multiple Cy Youngs” is very premature. However, to say that he has “flown under the radar” is not true at all….the hype machine around Hanson has been buzzing at full blast since around this time last year, leading into his performance in the Arizona Fall League.
Anders
September 16th, 2009
9:59 am
Lew- Thoughts on the Lowe deal now?
KC
September 16th, 2009
10:03 am
In response to Jeff Schultz assertion in the Bobby Cox story…
Jeff Schultz is wrong. The Braves aren’t good, aren’t great, but closer to average (in terms of talent/ability)??
The Braves are a different team than they were through the fist 2-3 months of the season. And Bobby Cox has a LOT to work with here.
In addition to the best rotation in baseball, the Braves, since the all-star break, are 4th in the NL in runs, 3rd in HR’s, and 3rd in team AVG.
And they’re only 2 runs behind the Rockies in 2nd half runs scored, despite the fact that the Rockies play at Coors Field, and have played 2 more second half games than Atlanta.
So the Braves have been one of the top 3 teams in the league offensively in the 2nd half. To go with all that pitching. Tell me again, Jeff, about the “average” team Bobby has to work with here.
DAP
September 16th, 2009
10:05 am
gov clinton, or hudson. i just dont think anyone bites on lowe at 3 years, $42mil. and if your talking about eating $3mil per year, im not sure lowe is bad enough to justify dumping $9mil just to get rid of him.
i dont even really think the braves have to have holliday. its not the way i would go if i were wren.
Hillbilly
September 16th, 2009
10:06 am
RE: Yankee/Blue Jay brawl
Made me sick listening to Kruk and Singleton talking about how the Jays pitcher was in the wrong for the brawl. They were yapping about how Carlson was in Posada’s way, and the elbow was just an act of defense. Said he was intentionally out of position for backing up the throw, so that he could be close enough to confront Posada. You have GOT to be $#*****G me, right?
Rock On......
September 16th, 2009
10:09 am
We have 3 guys that can play 2nd base (Prado,Infante,KJ-4 if you think Conrad will stay) which is at least 1 too many then you have 6 starters provided Wren is satisfied with Hudson and Hudson is satisfied with Atlanta again 1 too many. Trade KK & KJ from above scenario and you should get a bat to fit in well in the OF with Heyward and McClouth. Throw in the resigning of LaRoche and you have 3 power bats that you didn’t have to start this season. With normal seasons from McCann and Chipper and a killer SP staff that would pretty much have us set for 2010. Just can’t make additions and then have players come up with way below sub-par years as we have been having the last two years.
Lew
September 16th, 2009
10:11 am
Anders-Lowe? Well, he hasn’t pitched as well as I would have liked, but he’s hardly chopped liver, either (how;s that for a NY expression?). Considering that we have Jurrjens and Hanson making the ML minimum salaries (or slightly more) and they will be making about that much plus a bit more during Lowe’s contract, I’d say the contract isn’t nearly as prohibitive as so many seem to think-especially considering we have one of the best rotations in all of MLB. I think that this year we’re spending about $36 mil for our rotation. Consider that the Mets have more than half that tied up in Santana alone and have a rotation that pretty well stinks.
Tell me-do you think that the Braves will win a NL East pennant with Chipper and Hanson before the Mets win one with Santana and Wright? I do. The Braves have nothing but upside and a rotation that has three top line pitchers under contract for another 3 years (and two under contract for 4-6 more years). The Mets have Santana and a black hole they don’t have the $$$$$ to dig out of.
fastasballs
September 16th, 2009
10:11 am
So now that the pressure is off the Braves are playing loose, just having some fun. If they close this gap a little more will they fold up like a cheap tent when the pressure starts to build again?
I don’t think 90 wins will take the WC, more like 91-92. To do that the Braves need a run of 16-2 or 15-3 & some help from the Rockies/Giants. They still have three with the Fish, the only head-head of anybody above them in the WC standings.
If they come up just a few games short of the playoffs the blog will have a winter long meltdown.
As far as LaRoche I’d love to have him & his slow first half. Anyone compared his average “slow” start to Kotchman’s 1st half this season? It’s probably better overall, especially power #’s. At least with Adam you know he’s going to produce All Star #’s after the break.
RC
September 16th, 2009
10:11 am
A few tweaks to P.W. Hjort’s projected roster, this one keeping Lowe:
SP – Lowe $15,000,000.00
SP – Javier Vazquez $11,500,000.00
SP – Tim Hudson $10,000,000.00 (3-year deal)
SP – Jair Jurrjens $400,000.00
SP – Tommy Hanson $400,000.00
RP – Peter Moylan $1,500,000.00
RP – Kawakami $7,333,333.00
RP – Eric O’Flaherty $400,000.00
RP – Jorge Campillo $400,000.00
RP – Kris Medlen $400,000.00
RP – Boone Logan $400,000.00
RP – Craig Kimbrel $400,000.00
C – Brian McCann $5,666,666.00
1B – Adam LaRoche $8,000,000.00 (2 years with an option for 3)
2B – Martin Prado $400,000.00
SS – Yunel Escobar $400,000.00
3B – Chipper Jones $13,000,000.00
LF – Matt Diaz $3,000,000.00
CF – Nate McLouth $5,000,000.00
RF – Jason Heyward $400,000.00
BC – David Ross $1,600,000.00
UT – Omar Infante $1,850,000.00
UT – Kelly Johnson $3,750,000.00
UT – Brooks Conrad $400,000.00
OF – Gregor Blanco $400,000.00
OF – Ryan Church $3,750,000.00
I think this is a more balanced roster simply because it’s unrealistic to not expect at least ONE injury to your starting rotation over the course of the year. Having 6 pitchers who can give you quality starts is a HUGE advantage over the rest of the teams in the league. While LaRoche isn’t likely to produce as well as Holliday, he WILL produce a lot more than we got from Kotchman this year. He will also come at close to 1/3 of the price of Holliday, making him a much better value. While I’d like to have more power in the OF, I think we can afford not to IF we have power at 1b, which we didn’t have until recently. The problem with this team wasn’t having no power in the OF….it was no power in the OF OR 1b. I’d like to add a reliever to this, but am not sure exactly who will be available at the price we’d be willing to pay.
O.J.
September 16th, 2009
10:14 am
DOB, not sure if anyone has ever asked you, but do you or have you ever watched the show Dexter? Its absolutely awesome!
Daslied
September 16th, 2009
10:15 am
I’m not too scared of LaRoche’s 1st/2nd halves split. He really gets better month by month. In April (130 career games) his OPS is .660. In May (156 games), it jumps to .781. And it only goes up from there.
But we need to get off the cleanup thing – he’d be a disappointment there. Career OPS based on batting position:
4th (938 PA) – .789 (.31 lower than McCann in 660 PA)
5th (846 PA) – .811
6th (622 PA) – .867
7th (441 PA) – 1.002
His best? 8th, at 1.069, but in only 48 PA. Personally, I’d rather have a ridiculously awesome LaRoche batting 7th than a mediocre LaRoche batting 4th. I’d love to have him back, but not as the answer to our power troubles. In addition to a “real” cleanup guy? Fantastic.
RC
September 16th, 2009
10:15 am
fastasballs,
Don’t sleep on the Mets next year. They do have a bad rotation behind Santana, but they were DECIMATED by injuries this year….the payroll $$ they lost to the disabled list is higher than the Braves total payroll. They should be MUCH better next year.
McFann :Ô:
September 16th, 2009
10:16 am
Haha! That fight was ridiculous! Good heavens…that pitcher had a pretty good-sized welt on his head!
Posada appears to be a hot-head or something…
Thrillhouse44
September 16th, 2009
10:18 am
Anders – thoughts on the Putz deal now?
richbrave
September 16th, 2009
10:18 am
DAVE:
Yes.
RHR
September 16th, 2009
10:23 am
UT – Kelly Johnson $3,750,000.00
Frank Wren is not a fool. He’s not paying KJ that kind of money (again) to sit on the bench (again). There isn’t a utility player alive worth that. Please.
RP – Kawakami $7,333,333.00
Can’t see that happening either. KK will be in the rotation or traded. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say rotation.
Daslied
September 16th, 2009
10:24 am
I’m not too scared of LaRoche’s 1st/2nd halves split. He really gets better month by month. In April (130 career games) his OPS is .660. In May (156 games), it jumps to .781. And it only goes up from there.
But we need to get off the cleanup thing – he’d be a disappointment there. Career OPS based on batting position:
4th (938 PA) – .789 (.31 lower than McCann in 660 PA)
5th (846 PA) – .811
6th (622 PA) – .867
7th (441 PA) – 1.002
His best position? 8th, at 1.069, but in only 48 PA. Personally, I’d rather have a ridiculously awesome LaRoche batting 7th than a mediocre LaRoche batting 4th. I’d love to have him back, but not as the answer to our power troubles. In addition to a “real” cleanup guy? Fantastic.
DAP
September 16th, 2009
10:26 am
rock on….
ill go a step further with you, KK and KJ should be on the block, as should church. they dont even have to get anything for them. it would be a straight up salary dump. maybe a league minimum reliever at best.
infante, prado, conrad, and diory hernandez can all play where kelly would play. the bad thing about kelly is that he ONLY plays 2ndbase, and if he isnt going to start, there isnt a good reason to have him on the bench making that much money. trade him for a song.
as far as church goes, im still for signing either marlon byrd or mike cameron, which mean church would be 4th or 5th outfielder, especially when heyward is up. gorecki, b. jones and others could easily be a 4th or 5th outfielder for much cheaper. youd have mcclouth, cameron, heyward/diaz, and lets just say jones. plenty of out fielders and infielders, kept all your best hitters, and you just saved over $6mil.
KK needs to be dangled and traded if anyone will take him. ive really enjoyed watching him pitch and i think he is gutsy, but we need the payroll relief. we have several guys who can be an emergency starter and do a decent job if we need them to.
wren need to improve the offense and prevent the bullpen from getting to weak. resigning one of gonzalez and soriano, get a decent reliever of two through trade, and signing cameron and laroche make this a good, complete team.
richbrave
September 16th, 2009
10:27 am
DAVE:
What do you know I don’t? I don’t know this, but believe MALONE wants out from under this TIME-WARNER acquisition, and the only way is to up the value of the franchise. What better way to do that than raise the payroll with impact players that make a difference. You can see the result of having over-the-hill (GA) and older effective (LOWE, KAWAKAMI) ones. Young rising talent is needed, especially in LF. I believe it’s the surest way back to the playoffs. As you know, I have not waivered in that contention since the end of the 2007 season. Nothing I’ve seen since with this club has convinced me otherwise, yourself included.
McFann :Ô:
September 16th, 2009
10:28 am
Anders When’s the last time an ump came down so clearly on one side of something…?
When Gibson called Beltran safe at third base on a stolen base attempt against the Braves on May 12th, 2009.
fastasballs
September 16th, 2009
10:32 am
Acquiring LaRoche was a heck of a trade for Wren & the Braves. Kotchman has done absolutely nothing in Boston, OBP is .268 & AVG is .196. Adam, since he’s been in Atlanta, has actually outperformed Victor Martinez in just about every offensive catagory since his arrival in Boston.
I think LaRoche resigns with Atlanta, especially reading his comments the past few weeks. Freeman needs at least another season, probably two before he is ready so hopefully the Braves can get LaRoche to sign a 2-3 year deal over the winter.
Lew
September 16th, 2009
10:34 am
DAP-I don’t disagree with your assessment, though I think we could do a bit better than a mid level reliever for KK and KJ. At least a couple of prospects and a ML ready guy. No one of any major importance, though. However, saving $10 mil would be a good thing.
Under normal circumstances, I’d love to have Kawakami on the staff. I think he’s a good mid-low rotation type of pitcher and would be an asset- Just not so much with the other five guys we have as starters and Medlen on the back burner (not to mention we still have some up and coming arms in the minors).
Hey, to my way of thinking, too much good pitching is not a detriment, no matter how you look at it.
McFann :Ô:
September 16th, 2009
10:35 am
fastasballs Adam, since he’s been in Atlanta, has actually outperformed Victor Martinez in just about every offensive catagory since his arrival in Boston.
Really? Dang…Victor Martinez has batted 3rd for Boston, but LaRoche usually bats lower in the order…hmmmm…
richbrave
September 16th, 2009
10:38 am
fastaballs:
Yes, I get the same vibes. LaROCHE for three. By then FREEMAN has hopefully righted his hitting ship which has gone listing since his last promotion and made his permanent appearance in ATLANTA.
Ben
September 16th, 2009
10:38 am
Cox on fence about 2010:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4477299
Daslied
September 16th, 2009
10:40 am
Laroche’s career OPS based on batting position:
4th (938 PA) – .789 (.31 lower than McCann in 660 PA)
5th (846 PA) – .811
6th (622 PA) – .867
7th (441 PA) – 1.002
Best #7 in the game!
Help
September 16th, 2009
10:41 am
The blog is drowning in a bunch of posts from couch-GMs who think they have it all figured out.
DAP
September 16th, 2009
10:43 am
lewI think we could do a bit better than a mid level reliever for KK and KJ.
we might be able to, but to me it doesnt matter. it wouldnt be a trade to get anything other than salary relief…and with the position players we have available, id think id rather trade for decent relievers if we are going to get major league players back. the most important thing would be that they make the minimum.
McFann :Ô:
September 16th, 2009
10:44 am
Daslied 4th (938 PA) – .789 (.31 lower than McCann in 660 PA)
A mere technicality…
Danga
September 16th, 2009
10:44 am
If we are talking bad contracts, Oliver Perez has to take the cake, right? Santana is a stud and has been for a long time. He earned that contract. Lowe isn’t pitching like an ace, but he is out there eating innings and giving the team a chance to win on most nights.
How expensive does this 2nd half make LaRoche? You can count on him for .270 and 20-30 homers. What does the market say for a guy like that?
BravesfaninWis
September 16th, 2009
10:45 am
To bad we weren’t a little closer to the Phillies with having all these divisional games to end the season.. My wife asked me when the season is done and I asked her for the Braves or all of baseball, and she asked the Braves.. I told her the Braves season ended around August 1st this year, but they are allowed to play until the end of September.. They have themselves to blame for it.. They lose big series against the Padres and Pirates, then get swept by the damn Reds, then go ahead and sweep the Cardinals at home.. Go figure.. I don’t even try to understand them any more, they are about as inconsistent as they come.. Maybe next year, I have been hearing that for years now.. Maybe not next year is more like it with this team..
fastasballs
September 16th, 2009
10:46 am
McFann, Yeah believe it or not, LaRoche .351/.417/.655 with 20 Xtra base hits, 12 HR 7 2B & 1 3B. Martinez .329/.399/.517 with 16 Xtra base bits, 6HR & 10 2B.
And yes LaRoche has done most of his damage batting 7th. I have no idea why he was never moved to cleanup, especially when McCann was having such a horrible time. McCann does his best work in the 5th hole if I recall, you know better than I I’m sure. The reason can’t be two lefties back-back because Loaf has batted 5th behind McCann most of the season.
Joe Fan
September 16th, 2009
10:46 am
would really to see the Braves trade Lowe but unlikley to happen, that leaves Javier Vazquez. By trading either pitcher the Braves hopefully would add a top shelf 3B prospect and a starting power hitting corner OF to go with Heyward or using the excess cash to enter the bidding for Holiday. Either way the key to what the Braves do in the offseason will be determined by whether they can trade a highly paid starting pitcher.
fastasballs
September 16th, 2009
10:52 am
richbrave, I still feel good about Freeman. From what I have read he’s not overmatched or anything at AA, just working on some things & it just hasn’t come as easy for him as Heyward.
Like I said I’d love to have LaRoche & his slow start. His slow start isn’t any worse than what Kotchman gave us, in fact LaRoche hit twice the HR’s in the first half than Kotchman did while with the Braves during the same time frame.
Luke
September 16th, 2009
10:53 am
This is when you know you have to much time on your hands….If the Braves win tonight it’ll be the first time they are 9 games over .500 since June 2, 2007. Lance Cormier got shelled..anyways long time coming big game tonight especially with JJ tomorrow night and the Phillies on deck.