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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,113 comments Add your comment
Wayne in Utah
August 21st, 2009
4:06 pm
I might end up skinning my knees, but I’m jumping off this merry-go-round. See you all at recess tomorrow.
Glen W
August 21st, 2009
4:06 pm
Escoabr for Supreme Court. I agree with your view. Apologies for the misunderstanding. I was just curious as to whether you found the current trend (playing up/down to competition) more or less frustrating than building a team that is constructed to dominate mediocre opponents across the regular season, then generally not succeeding in the post-season.
As long as playing up/down to competition is not an effort issue (I don’t think the issue here is an effort issue), I find it less frustrating.
ncscoots
August 21st, 2009
4:06 pm
Lunatic Fringe escapes the asylum long enough to hammer out a cogent post that, in a sane world, would cap the whole debate on the two pitchers, LOL. Thank you, my man. Gonna have to change your moniker, if you keep that up.
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
4:06 pm
Furthermore, I expect that whichever one they choose to keep will be offered (and accept) a contract extension for a reasonable sum.
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
4:06 pm
Your not being objective your only discount Hudson because of his injury.
First of all I’m not “discounting” Hudson. Hudson would be a fine pickup for several teams, even the Braves for the right price. I’m saying if you compare Hudson and all the things that go into picking up his option to Vazquez and his contract, the choice is pretty clear.
but you dont have all the information, (namely what vazquez could be traded for) so arent you rushing to judgment about what the best choice is?
And you have all the information? Who Vazquez could be traded for and what the Braves can do to improve the team if they buy out Hudson’s option? I’m going by as much info as I have and based on all of that, the choice is clear.
Steve Holt!!! (fists in the air)
August 21st, 2009
4:07 pm
Enter your comments here
CrimeDog
August 21st, 2009
4:07 pm
Anibal Sanchez is 2-3 with a 5.08 ERA in his career against the Braves. That constitutes owning?
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
4:07 pm
Furthermore, I expect that whichever one they choose to keep will be offered (and accept) a contract extension for a reasonable sum.
Well, Vazquez’s contract runs through next season; no option.
wjones
August 21st, 2009
4:07 pm
“wjones, thats a terrible idea. im sure you werent serious”
Of course I’m not serious. No team would ever do that, because no starting pitcher with any tenure would agree to being used like that. Few relievers would agree to that type of workload. But I don’t necessarily think it’s a terrible idea. Maybe you tweak it a little, because it leaves you with no fallback in case someone gets hurt, it goes extras, or someone is just ineffective. But I think using pitchers for two-three innings every three days would be a great idea, if you had the kind of personnel who didn’t care about quality starts, saves, wins, etc. In other words, a young staff with a few retreads looking for a jumpstart.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:08 pm
Steve from OH-
They wouldnt want young talent that would want a home run threat every time what we thought Mark Suckera would be. They wouldnt trade away JV for someone they have to grow.
GOB Bluth
August 21st, 2009
4:08 pm
Steve Holt(!!!) is here??? Gotta run, folks…
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
4:10 pm
EfSC–why not young talent? Young talent is always a good thing. Besides, not too many folks gonna trade us a young power hitter for one year of Vazquez. Well, at least not the power hitter y’all are envisioning.
Glen W
August 21st, 2009
4:10 pm
OK, I have to say that just maybe…. maybe… everyone who thinks Lowe should be traded knows nothing about running a baseball team. If Frank Wren did that, what do you think that would do to any future efforts to sign a significant free agent?
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
4:10 pm
There’s not a clear-cut answer, and don’t pretend like there is. If anything, trading Vazquez is the way to go because you can both control where he goes and get young, cheap, controllable talent in return. Not so for Hudson.
Yup.
Wren and the front office will prove it at the end of the season by either letting Hudson walk or buying out the option and trying to sign him to a lesser deal.
Shaun, how do you know they might not look to trade Kawakami?
Lars Taint
August 21st, 2009
4:11 pm
Shaun,
Going back to DAP’s hypothetical situation. Would you rather have Hudson and Lance Berkman (or a player of that caliber) or Javy and Matt Holliday. I would take Hudson and Berkman anyday.
Carroll Rogers
August 21st, 2009
4:11 pm
lineup:
1. Infante 2B
2. Church CF
3. Jones 3B
4. McCann C
5. LaRoche 1B
6. Escobar SS
7. Diaz RF
8. Gorecki LF
9. Vazquez P
first major league start for Gorecki, I believe
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
4:12 pm
how do you know they might not look to trade Kawakami?
I’d be all over that were I the Braves’ FO (of course, with enough payroll too…). Wren has it in him to make the tough PR decision…
Nova Scotia Steve
August 21st, 2009
4:12 pm
Well interesting line-ups these days folks
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:13 pm
Glen W-
I find it frustrating I hate losing to lesser teams. I hate the Phils and the Dodgers but I repect they are good. It bugs me when we bea them gain ground and then give it back to because we cant close on bad pitchers. Meanwhile the Phils crush bad teams.
Shaun-
You just dont see the bigger picture. JV brings more through trade then does Hudsons money in free agency. If they are going to trade anyone I would not be surprised to see it done around the All-Star game of 2010 when people can see what Hudson is like with games under his belt as well as seeing if JV can continue this upside.
Snyder the Architect
August 21st, 2009
4:14 pm
Carroll…Thx for all the information and the article on Minor…That’s great you got to spend a couple of days around the team in Rome…they seem like a great group of guys who play hard and have a lot of fun…and they’ve been playing very well in Aug…
When you were down there did you hear anything definitive on Devall? His status (surgery, no surgery, waiting, Tommy John, less serious procedure, etc.) seems to be very guarded information and I’ve heard so many different things…
Steve from OH…I would imagine that Kimbrel will playing in the AFL as well…Him and Ortegano were both called up right before the end of July, so I imagine their AFL eligibility for this year was one of the many factors that led to the specific timing of their callup…I agree with you on Hicks also, and obviously Heyward and Freeman…then as you said possibly Jones or Diamond, or even Gunderson…And Carroll confirmed that Minor is definitely taking our A/A+ spot…
Chop Chop
August 21st, 2009
4:14 pm
Since when did Shaun grow this Lentzian ego?
I love it.
Lunatic Fringe
August 21st, 2009
4:14 pm
ncscoots ,
I choose that moniker carefully, after reading posts for a few weeks before wanting to chime in. Posters here are clearly the fringe element. With Braves fans probably in the million, there are probably less than 500 who participate on the blog. And as far as the Lunitic portion, well, it just seemed to be appropriate ( a musical connection as well)
Ben
August 21st, 2009
4:15 pm
Carroll, Great Blog. What’s the latest on Prado?
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
4:16 pm
Steve from OH, I agree and it’d make a lot of sense. While his total contract(two years) is around the value of Hudson’s option year, Kawakami can bring something in return. Perhaps not the hitter to fill the void, but prospects and/or young players that can be used in another trade or just kept.
ncscoots
August 21st, 2009
4:17 pm
I’d just like to thank Reid Gorecki for perhaps stilling the Brooks Conrad bromance, LOL. I think the blog can only focus on one AAA heartthrob at a time. Thank you, Reid…have a night, big fella.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:17 pm
Glen W-
Its a business if someone coming to Atlanta doesnt perform why should we feel the need to keep them. Just because your a big name it makes no difference. People still always dream of coming to play here in the environment. Everyone seems to like it here minus a few who are just head cases. I.E. Sheff.
CB
August 21st, 2009
4:18 pm
Glen W,if you sign a contract that isn’t a no trade contract, do you not understand that you must perform to the level of the contract? Lowe is border line to his performance this year.
Braveheart
August 21st, 2009
4:18 pm
Is it really clear? Vazquez likely will go back to be a league average pitcher or slightly better. Hudson will likely come back as a league average pitcher or slightly better. The results likely won’t be much different. Hudson, however, at the present time, has little trade value. Vazquez has significant trade value.
If you cut Hudson loose, and keep Vazquez, you are left with (1) Vazquez, (2) $12 million to be spent in free agency which is an inefficient way to utilize your money, and/or (3) prospects that must be traded in bulk to use up that $12 million excess in the more efficient trade market.
If you keep Hudson, you trade Vazquez, essentially free up the same $12 million, retain more of your farmhands, and get back better players at a better cost by trading Vazquez than if you traded half the farm and/or spent the money in free agency.
So, no, Shaun, it’s not clear cut at all. In fact, you could say that keeping Hudson, and trading Vazquez is clearly the far more productive, efficient and cost effective utilization of your available time, labor, and monetary resources
njbraves
August 21st, 2009
4:18 pm
Tim Hudson> Javy Vazquez. Always has been, always will be. Too many of you are getting caught up in Javy’s fine season. Yeah, he’s doing a great job this year, but check his last few years. Assuming Huddy’s healthy, he’s the guy to keep. I personally hope they keep them both and run the best rotation in baseball out there next year.
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
4:19 pm
Todd (Chattanooga): Which 4 would you take? Heyward, Hanson, Schafer, & Freeman – or – Stanton, Morrison, West, & Maybin?
J.J. Cooper: I’ll go with the Braves, the big reason being Hanson vs. West. Nothing against West, but he’s not the prospect Hanson is. I’d give Maybin an edge over Schafer, but not enough to balance out West vs. Hanson. With Heyward and Freeman joining Hanson in Atlanta, the Braves are about to get interesting in the next year or so.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:20 pm
Brooks Conrad is hands down better then Norton he had more hits in two weeks then Nortons had all year. So yes I will continue to be a fan boy of Conrad and will always disagree with how Bobby treated him.
I am
August 21st, 2009
4:20 pm
worried about tonight’s game. Way too much “future” talk and not enough about the task at hand.
ncscoots
August 21st, 2009
4:21 pm
Mr. Fringe, excellent powers of observation and a keen eye for the appropriate, is what I’m saying. And even with a gross estimate of half-a-thousand, I’d guess the forum bends under the 20-80 rule: 20% of the posters make 80% of the posts.
That’s a pre-Dentzian estimate, of course, LOL.
Fish Bisch
August 21st, 2009
4:21 pm
that line up is weak! Braves lose.
Glen W
August 21st, 2009
4:23 pm
Esco/CB – what I think you are fogetting is that when free agents sign long term deals, they do things like buy and sell homes and move families. These are people. And when substantial free agents look at situations, very often one important thing they look at is stability.
Frank Wren had to sell Derek Lowe on the stability of the franchise/team after seeing core players being worked off of the team (Glavine, Smoltz, etc.). If you read between the lines in December, what you saw was that Wren sold Lowe on the fact that they had a solid young core group of players with even bg talent that woould reach the major league roster within the life of the contract that was being discussed.
You can;t just say, “oh, he didn’t have a no trade clause.” Players and agents look at track record like that. It’s a big deal.
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
4:23 pm
DaveH (Savannah GA): Has Logan Morrison surpassed Smoak as the top 1B prospect in the game? I realize Smoak is immensely talented, and he frequently gets rave reviews from scouts, but his [power] numbers have not been that impressive. {I do realize he was injured, but so was LoMo}.
J.J. Cooper: If you ask three different scouts about Morrison, Smoak and Freddie Freeman, you may get three different answers. The best answer I have is that all three are excellent prospects, and if healthy, Yonder Alonso isn’t far behind that group either.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:23 pm
njbraves-
We all know of JV’s previous seasons but that is not the concern right now, I dont see this JV goins away it seems like it has finally clicked for him in Atlanta. I said in a previous page that Hudson career stats are a lot better and they are but JV is one of the few if not only power pitcher we have. JJ could be but he perfers to pitch to contact and its working for him so, so be it. JV is our only K guy and I dont see this new found skill going anywhere.
rammerjammer
August 21st, 2009
4:23 pm
This notion of trading Vazquez so we can get young, cheap talent in return slays me. Why stop there…let’s see what we can get for McCann! Aw, shoot, just back up the truck, dump every player WHO WE ALL KNOW WILL NEVER GET ANY BETTER and CONTROL WHERE THEY GO (yippee). We get a bunch of promising prospects that cost next to nothing, AND the sweet satisfaction of enhancing some other team’s playoff chances. Boy that’s good stuff. No wonder everyone’s an Oakland A’s fan.
stynes
August 21st, 2009
4:24 pm
If the lineup scores 4, they win. Speaking of specific scores… has anyone mentioned that the 3-2 Braves win last night was I believe their 1st of the year when scoring exactly 4 runs?
civilized white trash
August 21st, 2009
4:24 pm
I HATE that SMURF TURF too!
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
4:26 pm
Jason Heyward (MS): Can you possibly see me chugging coffee in Atlanta next month?
J.J. Cooper: If they want to give Heyward a taste of what the big leagues are like, sure. But as good as he is, I’d be surprised if he could hold his own at the big league level just yet, and I’d be worried that it’s too much too soon. Heyward is a significantly better prospect than Jeff Francoeur, but the Braves ended up rushing Francoeur when they called him up, and he was a 21-year-old with 450 Double-A at-bats. Heyward is a 19-year-old with 141 Double-A at-bats. A little patience here is a good thing.
Fish Bisch
August 21st, 2009
4:26 pm
jammerrammer that is our blueprint. If it’s not broke don’t fix it.
DAP
August 21st, 2009
4:27 pm
wjones I think using pitchers for two-three innings every three days would be a great idea, …I don’t necessarily think it’s a terrible idea. Maybe you tweak it a little, because it leaves you with no fallback in case someone gets hurt, it goes extras, or someone is just ineffective.
or if someone is dealing you dont want to take them out after just three innings.
but your right, it needs a few tweaks. what if you take the 5 best pitchers, let let them take turns pitching for as long as they are effective, however many innings that is, and then have some guys in reserve you can use for a few innings here and there, or if the game goes in extras?
i cant believe nobody has thought of that yet….
bravesgrl4life
August 21st, 2009
4:27 pm
Fish Bisch
August 21st, 2009
3:26 pm
It was done that way on purpose, Bi*ch
Braveheart
August 21st, 2009
4:28 pm
With that being said, I’d trade the hell out of Kawakami before I traded Vazquez or cut Hudson loose, and I wouldn’t care if I got much in return for Kawakami other than someone taking the rest of his contract off our hands.
bravesgrl4life
August 21st, 2009
4:28 pm
Thanks Escobar re:
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:28 pm
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
4:28 pm
Steve (Ohio): Has Freddie Freeman’s lack of power across hi-A and AA concerned you at all this year? I understand he’s way young for his league, but just asking, as I’ve heard from other sources that think that Freeman won’t be much more than a solid regular…
J.J. Cooper: I’ve talked to two different scouts who think Freeman can be a batting champion who hits 20 home runs or so. The swing has some power in it and he has an excellent frame. It will not be Heyward-type power, but he’s only 19 in Double-A, so the fact that he hasn’t produced that kind of power yet isn’t that much of a concern.
Nice, Steve. And don’t you tell me that wasn’t you. How many Braves fans are there in Ohio, who would ask a Freddie Freeman question regarding his power potential on a Baseball America chat?
Jeremy
August 21st, 2009
4:28 pm
Why does Bobby not ever play OMAR INFANTE IN THE OUTFIELD??? This would be a great spot to start Kelly at 2B and put Infante in LF! It’s like he forgot he can play out there!
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:29 pm
ncscoots-
Its not our fault if people who read it dont feel like posting and they just creep, maybe they feel the 20% speaks for the Braves nation.
Glen W-
Look if the guy doesnt perform you cant keep him for his family, he knows this, his wife knows this and his kids if old enough know this. We left go of Glavine and Smoltz because they couldnt pitch anymore. We as a fan base and the Braves as a team want to win not shuffle along and hope to contend for the wild card. If Smoltz and Glavine have quams about why they were let go they are not being realistic. Smoltz wanted way to much money we paid him 14 million last year for 6 starts…Looks like the braves made the right call considering he was like 1-5 with an ERA of 8 with the red sox. Looks like the braves were right with Glavine who appears to be out of the game. Its a business not a frat that keeps you no matter how bad you are.
Piedmont Blues (ex-BFIR)
August 21st, 2009
4:30 pm
LaRoche hitting 5th? That’s progress.
Lunatic Fringe
August 21st, 2009
4:30 pm
That’s a pre-Dentzian estimate, of course, LOL
There are those outliers that even on this blog can skew the “lunatic” peception
braves4ever
August 21st, 2009
4:30 pm
Carroll, very good blogage , loved the Minor /Smoltz/ Schafer stuff .
Thanks for going all the way up to Rome to get that.
AustinBrave
August 21st, 2009
4:30 pm
Any word on Prado?
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:32 pm
rammerjammer-
Why become the Marlins, they cant win anything past September.
Fish Bisch-
Its very broke dont be blind.
bravesgrl4life-
No problem.
Jeremy-
Kelly sucks at second compaird to Prado please dont ever say things like this again. Prado wins games at 2ed Kelly does not. He was a LF to start and maybe he should be the one going back to the outfield.
dogsbrekky
August 21st, 2009
4:32 pm
Funny about Smoltz, I watched all of his starts and he was NOT throwing his splitter, his fastball is like 90 mph not 92-94 and has no movement and his slider was a joke…. just juicy… hope for his sake he has it worked out
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
4:32 pm
Braveheart, I think Wren could coax another team to take him on and possibly give up a nice prospect or two…..
but that’s probably wishful thinking on my part.
Glen W
August 21st, 2009
4:32 pm
Esco – Smoltz was a free agent Glavine was on a one year deal, Lowe is in the first year of a long term deal. Totally different. If lowe had an ERA of six, that would be totally different. Despite 3 really bad games, Lowe has come to the Braves and largely delivered what was expected… quality innings. You just don;t dump a guy you’ve signed to a long term deal like that without expecting to take a major hit regarding your attractiveness to future free agents.
Braveheart
August 21st, 2009
4:32 pm
rammerjammer, I hear ya on the folks who seem to get off on endlessly trying to prove how smart they are by trading for the younger, cheaper option instead of seeking to get bigger and better and grow the product. But then again, we’re Bama dudes who’ll shamelessly sell our souls and pocketbooks to the likes of Nick Saban ’cause we must always be the best or at least strive to be so
BUZZMEAT
August 21st, 2009
4:33 pm
Kelly ever gonna start with Prado down??? crazy!
njbraves
August 21st, 2009
4:33 pm
Brveheart…couldn’t agree with you more.
Lars Taint
August 21st, 2009
4:33 pm
Braveheart,
Nice post at 4:18.
TnBrian
August 21st, 2009
4:34 pm
“That lineup is weak” is posted every single time it’s posted. What, do people expect Wren went out and got Pujols under everybody’s nose? I know it was a Marlins troll this time, but someone here always has the same BS to write.
braves4ever
August 21st, 2009
4:34 pm
Fish Bisch
No fish fry tonight. Just an ole fashioned indian uprising
I was thinking that early this morning and today while out I came across a eatery that had a traditional Friday All You Can Eat Fish fry, not Marlin but very good. So yes we have started a fish fry that will go on all weekend so everyone can come.
BUZZMEAT
August 21st, 2009
4:35 pm
DOB/ Carrol:
Any way we can get pictures from “octane in the outfield” on tomorrows blog?
Piedmont Blues (ex-BFIR)
August 21st, 2009
4:35 pm
civilized white trash,
Yep, the ACC wisely dumped that bowl tie-in w/Boise.
Imagine the locker room meeting in late November:
COACH: I’ve got good news, guys. We’re playing in a bowl game. In late December. In Boise. On a blue field.
TEAM: [unprintable]
ncscoots
August 21st, 2009
4:35 pm
Its not our fault if people who read it dont feel like posting and they just creep, maybe they feel the 20% speaks for the Braves nation.
I didn’t mean the 20-80 comment in a bad way, at all. But, heck, I probably post more than most whenever I’m around, and I can guarantee that nobody thinks I speak for THEM!
CB
August 21st, 2009
4:35 pm
Glen W,intelligent players do understand what a no-trade contract means for their stability. Lowe understands he is expected to perform to the contract or possibly suffer the consequences.
wow
August 21st, 2009
4:35 pm
Jeremy
Because Omar Infante doesn’t play good defense in the outfeild lacks speed, and a good arm.
Tomahawkin
August 21st, 2009
4:35 pm
Random
“Tomahawkin (August 20th, 2009 11:48 pm): “I see The blog went on a Chipper bashing spree [last night] saying that he is having an “Off year”
“And yet I called his off year out to the blog during the Phillies series in which he failed to show up [3 games, 4 for 11 (.364), 1 RBI, 1 Run, 1 BB (OBP = .417)] and I got my Ass handed to me, Mainly by one of his biggest supporters and he knows who he is…”
Yes, I know who I am…
(Can’t bring yourself to call my name, huh?)
It’s gratifying to see that you identify yourself with so many of the other ignorant, hateful, whiny, mouthy bottom feeders here (eg, Jeff321, TnBrian, Rob from SC, Braves Fan in SC, Mitchell, P-Town Brave, NO MORE BOBBY. I’ve always considered you to be one of them — the confirmation is welcome.
But now rather than “handing you Yours” once again, I’ll address some of the stupider comments from last night.
Braves Fan in SC (August 20th, 2009 8:36 pm): “I hope to God that Chipper retires after this season. He is killing this team offensively . . . . He has become the worse hitter on the team.”
Chipper has led the team all season in OPS and OPS+.
Rob from SC (August 20th, 2009 9:40 pm): “Chipper just looks like he doesn’t care. You should always show 100% effort.”
What an asinine comment. How could you know? And can you even recognize the difference between giving 100% effort and showing 100% effort?
wow (August 20th, 2009 9:41 pm): “Chipper is not our best hitter this year. I would say B mac or escobar would be the best hitters this year not chipper.”; (August 20th, 2009 9:47 pm): “I belive escobar is our best hitter because of how clutch he has been leading the world in hits with risp and he has power, average, and a good eye.”
Chipper has led the team all season in OPS and OPS+. Through 121 games, Chipper leads the Braves in OPS (.873, to McCann’s .861, Prado’s .830 and Escobar’s .819) and OPS+.
As for Chipper not being “clutch” (pay attention now, Tomahawkin, as you’ve been making this claim also), I looked at 8 top* Braves’ hitters (Jones, Escobar, McCann, Anderson, LaRoche, Diaz, Church and Johnson), and their “situational” hitting performances (with runners on base, with runners in scoring position, with bases loaded and with runners in scoring position with 2 out).
(* For some reason, I omitted Prado. Beats me as to why. I checked just now, though, and he’s nowhere in the running for “clutch”est Brave. See for yourself, here at ESPN, at the bottom of the page. You can similarly check the others.)
Of all those 8 players, only Chipper and Yunel had an OPS over 1.000 in any of those situations (except for Kelly, who OPSed 1.464 with the bases loaded (yay!), .705 (ugh!) with runners on, .561 (oof!) with runners in scoring position and .450 (yikes!) with runners in scoring position and 2 out).
So let’s focus on Chipper (season =.287/.400/.473/.873 ) and Yunel (season = .302/.371/.448/.819 ) in the four following situations through 118 games (note: does not includes Chipper’s dismal performance last night):
With runners on:
Chipper is 46 for 148, with 42 BBs and 45 RBIs, for slash averages of .311/.449/.500/.949 — better than his season’s numbers = “clutch”. Escobar’s even better — 57 for 157, with 13 BBs and 57 RBIs, for slash averages of .363/.424/.592/1.016 = even more “clutch”, when compared to his season’s numbers. Yunel’s OPS in this situation is 67 points higher than Chipper’s.
With runners in scoring position:
Chipper is 28 for 75, with 32 BBs and 40 RBIs, for slash averages of .373/.531/.600/1.131 — better than his season’s numbers = “clutch”. Escobar’s better again — 41 for 98, with 9 BBs and 52 RBIs, for slash averages of .418/.468/.714/1.182 = even more “clutch”, when compared to his season’s numbers. Yunel’s OPS in this situation is 51 points higher than Chipper’s.
With runners in scoring position with 2 out:
Chipper is 10 for 24, with 13 BBs and 17 RBIs, for slash averages of .417/.622/.875/1.497 — much better than his season’s numbers = very “clutch”. Escobar’s nowhere close — 24 for 63, with 1 BB and 29 RBIs, for slash averages of .381/.400/.619/1.019 = still “clutch”, when compared to his season’s numbers. Chipper’s OPS in this situation is 478 points higher than Yunel’s.
With bases loaded (warning: small sample size):
Chipper is 2 for 4, with 1 BB and 5 RBIs, for slash averages of .500/.500/.500/1.000. Escobar’s not quite there — 3 for 8, with 1 BB and 9 RBIs, for slash averages of .375/.364/.500/.864.
There may be some argument as to whether Yunel or Chipper is more “clutch” — I go with Chipper because of his vastly superior performance with RISP/2 out. But there is absolutely no way anyone can say that Chipper has not been “clutch” this year.
(See Braveheart (August 20th, 2009 9:54 pm) and Steve from OH (August 20th, 2009 9:58 pm) for some good comments.)
PS: a couple of amusing comments — were these guys on an even tighter deadline than DOB, “calling” the game so early?
Braves Fan in SC (August 20th, 2009 9:36 pm): “This loss is on Chipper folks.”
NO MORE COX OR CHIPPER! (August 20th, 2009 9:45 pm): “Double Plays & Chipper killed us tonight.”
PPS: So yeah, Tomahawkin, you just go ahead on and make yourself blissfully comfortable with your loser homies listed above. Me, I’ll stick with the likes of Shamus Thacker, Escobar for Supreme Court (?), Steve from OH, No More, No More Bobby (?), cs95, really, yall are crazy, Jimmy D, Kurdt Kobain, JayDubu & Braveheart. (If they’ll have me.)
Works for me bro…If you come to the sense that Hurt or not Chipper is having an off year, we’ll call a truce…?
“Loser Homies” LOL You are unreal…
It seems like the Chipper Bashing that was going on over the series in New York was about more people other than the one’s you mentioned catching on that Chipper is having an “off year”…Like I said before I’m not hating on him but he hasn’t stepped up this season and we need him to get hot for a 2-3 week period if this team wants to make it into October and past the first round
And Chipper is the Franchise no doubt about it but he is far from a leader
brian elliott
August 21st, 2009
4:37 pm
Is something wrong with Chipper? He looked awful during the met series and seemed that he should have stayed on the bench for the 3 games. Is there any injury that anyone knows? Any updates on Prado either? Thanks
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:38 pm
Glen W-
Smoltz still wanted to come to the Braves before anyone else and to say so is just wrong. The Red Sox obviously over paid but they can with a payroll of 180 million. What you said does not dis prove my point it only adds to the fact that its a business and you cant hang onto sentiment. Im with you on the Lowe situation but at the same time if the trend continues why would we want his long term deal if he cant produce to whats expected.
RHR
August 21st, 2009
4:38 pm
Chipper’s old and ineffective = Marlins sweep.
You’re young and stupid = Bye.
Braveheart
August 21st, 2009
4:38 pm
Efrim, of course I’d love it if he got something good back in return for Kawakami, but if he didn’t, I’d understand and not care much…… doesn’t mean I don’t think Kawakami isn’t good. Because I think he is good and valuable for what he is. I just think we’d be okay with Vazquez, Lowe, Hanson, Jurrjens, Hudson and Medlen next year and would be glad to have better pitching options than Kawakami plus 8 million freed
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
4:39 pm
I was under the impression Kimbrel came up after Aug 1, but if I’m wrong (I probably am) then I’d think he’d definitely be in the AFL.
So…Heyward, Freeman, Minor, Kimbrel…probably one more pitcher and one position player…Ortegano and Hicks if I had to guess.
dogsbrekky
August 21st, 2009
4:39 pm
Kawakami was good last night apart from that slightly scary 1st (well very scary 1st) and yet he still gets no love… oh well
Nice “sounding” lineup tonight, many an interesting name on the lineup
Was fun at SHeety Field last night. I may be mistaken but since I was last there when the mutts were oer 500, their fans have become suddenly nicer to folks wearing Braves gear. Then again the highlight for them was cheeng that bonehead closer WAGNER whilst maintaining the loss
RHR
August 21st, 2009
4:40 pm
Man couldn’t carry my cleats of badness, LOL.
True. But he was the meanest dude I could think of.
Anders
August 21st, 2009
4:40 pm
OK, I’m not the waiver wire guru many on here are but I assumed that Wagner had cleared waivers before the Mets “showcased” him last night. I mean, why would you let him show the world what he has when they can still claim him? Isn’t he more valuable when you can deal with all after clearing? Please,please tell me I’m missing something here and Minaya didn’t botch this. Shouldn’t they have activated him but nailed to the bench until he cleared?
Now that he was claimed you either let him go for peanuts or you re-up him for $8 mil. I don’t see any middle ground. Again, am I missing something?
Bobby's Belly
August 21st, 2009
4:41 pm
This is a very bad defensive outfield – 3 guys who can’t run or throw – hope we don’t get exposed tonight.
KC
August 21st, 2009
4:41 pm
Kelly Johnson has always been a streaky player. But when he’s hot, he’s as dangerous a hitter as you’ll find. He’s been swinging a good bat since he came off the DL. I think it was absolutely the right call to go with Prado over KJ for the starting 2B job. But Prado’s out, and KJ’s been swinging it as he did late last year.
Can’t Infante play a solid left field???
Why is Bobby choosing R.Gorecki over KJ.??? It makes no sense.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:41 pm
dogsbrekky-
KK is getting a lot of love we just think Hudson is a better pitcher with a proven track record. No doubt KK is turning into a good pitcher. You prolly didnt read the blog last night but we were all saying great job.
Anders
August 21st, 2009
4:41 pm
Tomahawkin – did you just get back from Paul Lentz summer camp? Good lord.
TnBrian
August 21st, 2009
4:43 pm
Braveheart, good post that does make sense. But, your first sentence I can’t agree with. Vazquez is pitching better than he ever has in his career right now. He’s a K pitcher that the rotation needs, every rotation needs one, imo. Hudson is coming off major surgery and is more of question mark. Yes, trading Vazquez and maybe a prospect for a hitter and resigning Hudson and keeping your prospects sounds like a no brainer, but I’m just not comfortable with the guy coming off of major surgery and how it might affect him. To me, that’s a bigger gamble.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:43 pm
Bobby’s Belly-
We will lots of gap power in Fla.
KC-
To slow, KJ used to play LF as I said before he makes the logical choice out there.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 21st, 2009
4:43 pm
Fish Bisch –
Maybe if you offered something intelligent, people wouldn’t think to call you off this blog. Nothing you have said has contributed, at all.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 21st, 2009
4:44 pm
Why is Bobby choosing R.Gorecki over KJ.??? It makes no sense.
Because KJ hasn’t played LF in years…
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
4:44 pm
Can we please italicize the text we’re quoting or something to make it a bit more…readable? Jeez…
Hillbilly
August 21st, 2009
4:44 pm
Steve From OH,
Kimbrel’s milb page shows he has played 8 games with Mississippi. The first one being on July 31.
CaliChopper
August 21st, 2009
4:44 pm
That body they found on the ranch wasn’t Gonzo’s was it?
RHR
August 21st, 2009
4:44 pm
After reading that I imagine you glaring at all the bloggers, Jules Winnfield style:
Boom!
Oh I’m sorry, did I break your concentration?
You were saying something about….baseball?
SAY WHAT AGAIN!”
Do they speak English in What?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snW3cM1KipQ
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:45 pm
TnBrian-
If bobby come back next year his clause will be a no trade JV button. He loves the guy and as he should he is a dominate pitcher this year.
Lunatic Fringe
August 21st, 2009
4:45 pm
Anders,
Maybe you overestimated Minaya???
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
4:46 pm
Can’t Infante play a solid left field???
I’m not sure that Infante is an asset defensively anywhere…
He’s an asset because he can do a lot of things ok (like play different positions and be an ok hitter off the bench), not because he can do the things starters do well. If he could, he’d be a starter.
Anders
August 21st, 2009
4:46 pm
Dogsbrekky- Did it ever occur to you that maybe YOUR attitude changed since the last time you went to Citifield? I mean, folks on here are much more tolerant of me now that the Braves are out in front of my Mets. It’s human nature. And we’re all humans. Well except for Lentz. {:
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 21st, 2009
4:46 pm
Can we please italicize the text we’re quoting or something to make it a bit more…readable? Jeez…
Sure.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:46 pm
CaliChopper-
It was his twin Chipper got the wrong guy. He was to busy eating Lime Tostitos with queso to notice.
Glen W
August 21st, 2009
4:47 pm
Esco – you lost me on that last response. Smoltz was a free agent and the Braves offers an incentive-based one year deal. Lowe was offered the third most lucrative contract that a pitcher was offered behind two massive talents in their prime. Not sure how that supports the idea that the Braves could trade Lowe in the offseason with that being similar to letting Smoltz take a better contract with Boston.
I agre with yout that it’s a business. And part of the business, for a Frank Wren, is treating players (especially the well paid ones) in a manner that would make futire star free agents see you as a desirable place to land.
KC
August 21st, 2009
4:47 pm
Escobar for Supreme Court, well… I’m sure KJ could still handle LF just fine. But Infante has played there more recently, and I’m positive that he regularly practices out there.
dogsbrekky
August 21st, 2009
4:47 pm
Escobar – it took me 3.5 hours to drive the 69 miles from my house to Queens last night and then was on the frog and toad on the way back after the game so missed all of the blog action.
FWIW – I really like Citifield but for the mutts I cannot work out why they would name their stadium after losers…anyway, it is a great place to watch ball and I have now been in 4 different areas there
"You all are Cox apologists"
August 21st, 2009
4:47 pm
WE CAN’T KEEP DOING THIS,
The Rockies took care of BUSINESS by sweeping the Nats while we failed to take care of business by NOT sweeping the Muts. Taking 2/3 is fine when you’re actually leading a race, but, when you’re playing catchup with only 41 games left and 3 teams to jump, (Marlins lead season series) you need 3 and 4 game sweeps. The Braves can really gain some vital ground by sweeping the Marlins and the Padres, which they should. 6-0 in our next 6 anyone??? The Rockies have their next 4 against the Giants and then 3 against the Dodgers. If we go 6-0 or even 5-1, we should gain at least 2 games. THE TIME IS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:48 pm
Steve from OH-
He could start in the infield for a lot of teams that dont have an infield like we do. Hes just playing behind better players is all.