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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,113 comments Add your comment
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
3:11 pm
If he starts the season with Atlanta next year then no, it doesn’t make a bit of difference, but if he doesn’t, then it starts to become more of an issue…
ncscoots
August 21st, 2009
3:14 pm
The question is which is the better contract and better value. Teams don’t acquire players, they acquire players and their contracts.
Good grief. The two pitchers in question are the same age, have the same contract length, and the same dollars.
Casual fans, my azz. What has gotten into you? Have family members been telling you again how smart you are?
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:15 pm
Steve from OH-
If who starts the season with us?
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
3:16 pm
Schafer.
CB
August 21st, 2009
3:18 pm
Uh, could the answer be to keep both and trade someone else?
ncscoots
August 21st, 2009
3:18 pm
Javier Vazquez is going to fulfill all of our hopes and dreams. Stop trying to ruin all of our hopes and dreams. Thank you.
Scroom, LOL. I’m a hopes-and-dreams eradicator and blue-sky eliminator. I’m ugly death on the optimistic, and make the smugly righteous do the hurt dance. You think toes are not to be trifled with? I got a bad attitude and the intentions to with it, LOL.
bravesgrl4life
August 21st, 2009
3:19 pm
There are some of you who need to learn the difference of “and” & “an”. If you are calling some “idiot” the word before it should be “an”, not “and”. And is a joiner and requires a before and after. Just a pet peeve I’ve been picking up on a lot lately. Thanks! I’ll stop my proper English rant now.
Fast Eddie Perez
August 21st, 2009
3:19 pm
Keep Javy, hes the #1 pitcher & should be getting Lowes contract, cant count on Huddy to regain his form yet its too much of an ungiven, if Huddy goes down & KK doesnt come thru, all we have is JJ, Hanson, & Lowe, need the stability with Vazquez in there, & fortunately Javy is one of Boobys boys so Im sure he will vote to resign him long term
RHR
August 21st, 2009
3:20 pm
In other words, scoots is the blog version of MFIKY in his prime.
JayDubu
August 21st, 2009
3:20 pm
Schafer’s ben gone for more than 2 months, and still leads th Braves in strikeouts. But Chipper is a very close 2nd.
Shamus Thacker
August 21st, 2009
3:21 pm
Woke-up feeling a tad schizophrenic, decided to teach Ed Norton Voodoo Doll how to hang birdhouses.
Missed nails, birdhouses, EVEN TREES, with errant hammer-strokes. Hammers killed chickadees 50-yards away.
Having lube-job done on Howitzer, BTW.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:21 pm
CB-
And who would you want to trade? Our the people that bring the most interest at Mac and Escobar maybe McLouth but with his .260 BA he is not so hot right now. We cant trade Mac and Escobar or value right now is all in pitching and prospects.
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
3:21 pm
Good grief. The two pitchers in question are the same age, have the same contract length, and the same dollars.
One is coming off major surgery and the other is not. The one who is not coming off surgery has a much better strikeout rate, a slightly better walk rate and a better ERA+ over the past three seasons, and would make a half million dollars less next season if the other one’s option is picked up.
Hillbilly
August 21st, 2009
3:25 pm
bravesgrl4life,
You must be new here. “Your and Idiot” is a long-running blog joke.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:26 pm
Shaun-
Tommy John surgery is still major yes but the advances in it over the last ten years are phenominal. I still say he can return to his great form. I have even heard him say his arm feels stronger after the surgery. You cant take into account those stats to much as the braves did not field good teams behind him and gave him very little run support and not so hot defence
Fish Bisch
August 21st, 2009
3:26 pm
bravesgrl: you can’t have an english rant since you can’t even spell girl. you big an indiot.
Brandon from Warner Robins
August 21st, 2009
3:26 pm
Billy Wagner was claimed off waivers. Who do yall think claimed him?
CB
August 21st, 2009
3:27 pm
Escobar- was referring to pitching with keeping both Hudson and Javy. This would mean a trade of Lowe or KK. Lowe’s contract tells me it would be KK,and before someone tells me we can’t trade him I don’t care about the Japanese market.
Hillbilly
August 21st, 2009
3:27 pm
Scoots at 3:18,
If you made that stuff up on your own, you are my new hero. If it came from a song or something, I want to hear it.
Lunatic Fringe
August 21st, 2009
3:27 pm
bravesgrl4life
Your and idiot
At least that is the popular phrase on the blog, and is not intended to be proper English. And no, I did not say that you are and idiot LOL
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:28 pm
Fish Bisch-
Go back to your marlin blog and be smart with the fact she obviously meant to spell it like that.
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
3:28 pm
Vazquez since 2006: 112 ERA+, 8.8 SO/9, 2.3 BB/9, 1 HR/9, 197 IP per season (including 2009 which is of course not complete), due to make $11.5 million next season.
Hudson since 2006: 112 ERA+, 5.5 SO/9, 2.6 BB/9, 0.7 HR/9, 194 IP per season, due to make $12 million if his option is picked up, is coming off surgery
And actually Vazquez is a year younger, ncscoots.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 21st, 2009
3:29 pm
I would love to see Derek Lowe in the bullpen, but he is our ace…
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:29 pm
CB-
Yea I would rather retain Lowe then KK and I also dont really care about the Jap market. Its a business not and @ss kissing business.
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
3:29 pm
I don’t see how an objective observer could pick Hudson over Vazquez. Yes, it’s somewhat close but I think the choice is pretty obvious when you take everything into account.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 21st, 2009
3:30 pm
Yankees are the only team that can afford Wagner…
civilized white trash
August 21st, 2009
3:30 pm
escobar for SC
i hope you are right. i love to see a rotation with both huddy and vasquez but i still think huddy will get his walking papers
i do hope we can trade KK that would make this process so much better
civilized white trash
August 21st, 2009
3:30 pm
did i mention that I HATE BOISE STATE
PWHjort
August 21st, 2009
3:31 pm
Let’s just keep everyone!
Random
August 21st, 2009
3:31 pm
Tomahawkin (August 20th, 2009 11:48 pm): “I see The blog went on a Chipper bashing spree [last night] saying that he is having an “Off year”
“And yet I called his off year out to the blog during the Phillies series in which he failed to show up [3 games, 4 for 11 (.364), 1 RBI, 1 Run, 1 BB (OBP = .417)] and I got my Ass handed to me, Mainly by one of his biggest supporters and he knows who he is…”
Yes, I know who I am…
(Can’t bring yourself to call my name, huh?)
It’s gratifying to see that you identify yourself with so many of the other ignorant, hateful, whiny, mouthy bottom feeders here (eg, Jeff321, TnBrian, Rob from SC, Braves Fan in SC, Mitchell, P-Town Brave, NO MORE BOBBY. I’ve always considered you to be one of them — the confirmation is welcome.
But now rather than “handing you Yours” once again, I’ll address some of the stupider comments from last night.
Braves Fan in SC (August 20th, 2009 8:36 pm): “I hope to God that Chipper retires after this season. He is killing this team offensively . . . . He has become the worse hitter on the team.”
Chipper has led the team all season in OPS and OPS+.
Rob from SC (August 20th, 2009 9:40 pm): “Chipper just looks like he doesn’t care. You should always show 100% effort.”
What an asinine comment. How could you know? And can you even recognize the difference between giving 100% effort and showing 100% effort?
wow (August 20th, 2009 9:41 pm): “Chipper is not our best hitter this year. I would say B mac or escobar would be the best hitters this year not chipper.”; (August 20th, 2009 9:47 pm): “I belive escobar is our best hitter because of how clutch he has been leading the world in hits with risp and he has power, average, and a good eye.”
Chipper has led the team all season in OPS and OPS+. Through 121 games, Chipper leads the Braves in OPS (.873, to McCann’s .861, Prado’s .830 and Escobar’s .819) and OPS+.
As for Chipper not being “clutch” (pay attention now, Tomahawkin, as you’ve been making this claim also), I looked at 8 top* Braves’ hitters (Jones, Escobar, McCann, Anderson, LaRoche, Diaz, Church and Johnson), and their “situational” hitting performances (with runners on base, with runners in scoring position, with bases loaded and with runners in scoring position with 2 out).
(* For some reason, I omitted Prado. Beats me as to why. I checked just now, though, and he’s nowhere in the running for “clutch”est Brave. See for yourself, here at ESPN, at the bottom of the page. You can similarly check the others.)
Of all those 8 players, only Chipper and Yunel had an OPS over 1.000 in any of those situations (except for Kelly, who OPSed 1.464 with the bases loaded (yay!), .705 (ugh!) with runners on, .561 (oof!) with runners in scoring position and .450 (yikes!) with runners in scoring position and 2 out).
So let’s focus on Chipper (season =.287/.400/.473/.873 ) and Yunel (season = .302/.371/.448/.819 ) in the four following situations through 118 games (note: does not includes Chipper’s dismal performance last night):
With runners on:
Chipper is 46 for 148, with 42 BBs and 45 RBIs, for slash averages of .311/.449/.500/.949 — better than his season’s numbers = “clutch”. Escobar’s even better — 57 for 157, with 13 BBs and 57 RBIs, for slash averages of .363/.424/.592/1.016 = even more “clutch”, when compared to his season’s numbers. Yunel’s OPS in this situation is 67 points higher than Chipper’s.
With runners in scoring position:
Chipper is 28 for 75, with 32 BBs and 40 RBIs, for slash averages of .373/.531/.600/1.131 — better than his season’s numbers = “clutch”. Escobar’s better again — 41 for 98, with 9 BBs and 52 RBIs, for slash averages of .418/.468/.714/1.182 = even more “clutch”, when compared to his season’s numbers. Yunel’s OPS in this situation is 51 points higher than Chipper’s.
With runners in scoring position with 2 out:
Chipper is 10 for 24, with 13 BBs and 17 RBIs, for slash averages of .417/.622/.875/1.497 — much better than his season’s numbers = very “clutch”. Escobar’s nowhere close — 24 for 63, with 1 BB and 29 RBIs, for slash averages of .381/.400/.619/1.019 = still “clutch”, when compared to his season’s numbers. Chipper’s OPS in this situation is 478 points higher than Yunel’s.
With bases loaded (warning: small sample size):
Chipper is 2 for 4, with 1 BB and 5 RBIs, for slash averages of .500/.500/.500/1.000. Escobar’s not quite there — 3 for 8, with 1 BB and 9 RBIs, for slash averages of .375/.364/.500/.864.
There may be some argument as to whether Yunel or Chipper is more “clutch” — I go with Chipper because of his vastly superior performance with RISP/2 out. But there is absolutely no way anyone can say that Chipper has not been “clutch” this year.
(See Braveheart (August 20th, 2009 9:54 pm) and Steve from OH (August 20th, 2009 9:58 pm) for some good comments.)
PS: a couple of amusing comments — were these guys on an even tighter deadline than DOB, “calling” the game so early?
Braves Fan in SC (August 20th, 2009 9:36 pm): “This loss is on Chipper folks.”
NO MORE COX OR CHIPPER! (August 20th, 2009 9:45 pm): “Double Plays & Chipper killed us tonight.”
PPS: So yeah, Tomahawkin, you just go ahead on and make yourself blissfully comfortable with your loser homies listed above. Me, I’ll stick with the likes of Shamus Thacker, Escobar for Supreme Court (?), Steve from OH, No More, No More Bobby (?), cs95, really, yall are crazy, Jimmy D, Kurdt Kobain, JayDubu & Braveheart. (If they’ll have me.)
Fish Bisch
August 21st, 2009
3:31 pm
all this talk about pitching, what’s the big deal? It doesn’t matter when you don’t have a big bopper like we have in Hanley.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:32 pm
Shaun-
Thats not really the issue everyone agrees keep JV. The question is will Hudson be healty and would it be wiser to keep him Lowe or KK. JV is obviously the Ace of our staff as of right now. He is posting one of the best season in all of MLB.
DAP
August 21st, 2009
3:32 pm
shaunI don’t see how an objective observer could pick Hudson over Vazquez. Yes, it’s somewhat close but I think the choice is pretty obvious when you take everything into account.
does that take into account what we could get for vazquez in a trade? that takes some guessing, but what if we factor that in?
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
3:33 pm
Vazquez versus Hudson is somewhat close but I think the injury, the half million dollar difference and to a lesser extent the fact that Vazquez is a year younger makes a pretty significant difference. If you don’t see this, I don’t think you are being too objective about this.
Bravesfan1984
August 21st, 2009
3:33 pm
i wouldn’t be surprised if the marlins put the claim on wagner
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:33 pm
Fish Bisch-
Not many people have a “big bopper” like Hanley. He is irrelevent as long as your Marlins keep trading away everyone one man cant win it all.
CB
August 21st, 2009
3:34 pm
I would actually hope we could trade Lowe if we could get a decent return but doubt any suitors with his contract. Wait, maybe the Yankees.lol
Bay Area Steve
August 21st, 2009
3:34 pm
Hillbilly (formerly Arkansas Hillbilly, right?),
I’m certain he made it up; the guy’s got unreal skills. He makes me want to find a bowl of sad.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 21st, 2009
3:34 pm
all this talk about pitching, what’s the big deal? It doesn’t matter when you don’t have a big bopper like we have in Hanley.
Yes it does, $100 says Hanley has a .270 or below average this series.
mudcat
August 21st, 2009
3:35 pm
Would really like to see a 6 man rotation after Huddy gets back. Keeps our rotation fresh for the playoff push and gives us time to evaluate our future plans for next years starting five.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 21st, 2009
3:35 pm
i wouldn’t be surprised if the marlins put the claim on wagner
They dont have the money, its either the Cubs or Yankees.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:36 pm
Shaun-
Half a million doesnt matter to ball clubs in the sense of who would you rather have. Im sure the year younger does but as far as stats go would people please stop bring up that hudson has slumped the last three years compaird to JV. His over all career stats are much better then JV’s and Hudson for the fourth time played with some really bad Braves teams since coming over from Oakland.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 21st, 2009
3:36 pm
Would really like to see a 6 man rotation after Huddy gets back. Keeps our rotation fresh for the playoff push and gives us time to evaluate our future plans for next years starting five.
That would over work the bullpen.
Hillbilly
August 21st, 2009
3:36 pm
Bay Area Steve, (yeah, that’s ne)
I’ve always thought scoots was one of the best we’ve got, but that post blew my mind.
CB
August 21st, 2009
3:38 pm
Random,good summary.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:38 pm
mudcat-
Yes I would but I dont think that will happen.
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
3:40 pm
does that take into account what we could get for vazquez in a trade? that takes some guessing, but what if we factor that in?
That becomes murky. Because if you are going to do that, you have to also take into account how the Braves would spend the extra money that would have gone to Hudson.
Also, I’m fairly convinced Vazquez wouldn’t bring back in a trade as much value as he’s worth. Because I think the only things that may be more valuable than a pitcher that gives you 200+ at least solid innings are Cy Young contender type pitchers or all-star caliber position players. I don’t think the Braves are getting either for Vazquez.
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
3:40 pm
Random’s information to be completely ignored in 3…2…1…
woogidy
August 21st, 2009
3:41 pm
If Schafer is healthy, It’s a no-brainer to call him up. He goes in for Nate in the late innings in center to save Nate’s legs. They are equals on defense just about, with Schafer being the slightly better one.
Nova Scotia Steve
August 21st, 2009
3:42 pm
I see the game’s on Sh*t-Tree TV tonight…8O
Nova Scotia Steve
August 21st, 2009
3:42 pm
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
3:42 pm
Let’s just keep everyone!
Worst case scenario is dealing Vazquez away for this mystery bat, in my opinion. I think Hudson and Vazquez are close though, much closer than some here are making it out to be. But then again, I can’t understand how some are so quick to dismiss Javy. It’ll sort itself out, perhaps with a Kawakami trade. But for some reason, I’m expecting either Vazquez to get traded, or Hudson to be pitching for someone else next year. Should be an exciting offseason as the Braves try to build a team that can beat those Phils.
Wayne in Utah
August 21st, 2009
3:43 pm
DAP
You hit the nail on the head. I don’t think anybody is saying that JV and Hudson aren’t close. Who in their right mind would give us anything for Hudson this winter? But Vazquez, that’s a different story.
The argument that the Braves save 11 million if they buy out his option also doesn’t address the point that the Braves prefer trading for help than signing free agents.
Hudson’s option gets picked up, and somebody gets traded this winter (at least that is the way it looks right now to me).
This discussion might turn into one of those ongoing roundy rounders that might go on till game time.
I think it is time to jump off the merry-go-round.
Nova Scotia Steve
August 21st, 2009
3:43 pm
Random…
That may have been the longest post I ever scrolled over in my brief history on this blog.
CB
August 21st, 2009
3:44 pm
I very seldom like to post that one player is better than another without doing research. The best way is to try to let your eyes see or read,your brain to digest and your mouth to stay shut.
civilized white trash
August 21st, 2009
3:45 pm
i have to say I HATE FLORIDA just as much as I HATE BOISE STATE
lebrave
August 21st, 2009
3:46 pm
im sure the phillies are the team claiming wagner…im sure they are hoping he could be more consistent than lidge. sadly, he probably would be
Glen W
August 21st, 2009
3:46 pm
OK, Vazquez is pitching great, to a large degree because he is finally pitching in a park that favors fly ball pitchers… he is very comfortable in Atlanta. I think he wants to be here and that the Braves should want him here, so I hope they get an extension in place.
I also agree that if you get to the post-season, facing likely the best offensive teams in the league (see Philly and LA), you will need a guy that can miss some bats. Compare the post-season accomplishment of Maddux/Glavine versus that of John Smoltz.
Wayne in Utah
August 21st, 2009
3:47 pm
civilized
What did I miss on Boise State? Did the football team all disrespect your sister or something?
Besides, what have you got against blue astroturf?
Nova Scotia Steve
August 21st, 2009
3:47 pm
I’m also not one who’s going to bash Chipper. The guy’s done too much for this team/organization to bash.
We will miss him when’s he gone – or at least I will – bank on it.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:48 pm
Efrim-
We are 8 and 4 against those Phils actually and a similiar record against the Dodgers, the two best teams(in some opinions)in the NL. Thats not the problem.
Ultimitly I would like to see KK and or Lowe go.
CB
August 21st, 2009
3:48 pm
NS Steve,I shall now scroll over your posts.
CharlieAlphaBravo
August 21st, 2009
3:48 pm
civilized…
Must be an Oklahoma fan…
Wayne in Utah
August 21st, 2009
3:50 pm
Shaun
Maybe you should just say “I believe so and so about this situation, and this is why.”
Where you end up ticking off folks is when you add: “…and if you don’t see it my way, then your not really being objective.”
Just sayin (and if you don’t understand what I am saying, they you have your head …….)
(couldn’t resist)
Nova Scotia Steve
August 21st, 2009
3:50 pm
That’s ok CB…
I usually don’t have many stats/insight/bashing related posts anyway…
Unless its Kawakami and he doesn’t even deserve to be bashed anymore.
Just come on here cause I’m a fan…
Efrim
August 21st, 2009
3:50 pm
Escobar for Supreme Court, I meant just finishing with an overall record better than the Phils. That’s not going to be easy, this year or next.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:50 pm
Glen W-
I agree I said something similar a while back. Also as I just pointed out the Braves play to their opponent we can beat the great teams and struggle agaisnt the bad. Thats pitching and bats. As long as this trend continues we will have trouble regaining the divison although I think we can this very year.
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
3:51 pm
Half a million doesnt matter to ball clubs in the sense of who would you rather have. Im sure the year younger does but as far as stats go would people please stop bring up that hudson has slumped the last three years compaird to JV. His over all career stats are much better then JV’s and Hudson for the fourth time played with some really bad Braves teams since coming over from Oakland.
A half million matters at least a little. Throw in the slight age difference and the injury and things start to add up. Plus with Vazquez’s ability to miss bats, there’s more margin for error.
And is Hudson slumping or is that just the typical aging pattern for a pitcher like Hudson? Not that he’s been bad at all, but if your choosing don’t you want the guy who’s a little younger, a little cheaper, who’s pitched at least as well in recent seasons and isn’t coming off major surgery? His career stats don’t matter at this point. What’s he’s likely to do in the near future is what matters.
What does playing on really bad Braves teams have to do with his strikeout rate, his walk rate and his homer rate? What does playing on bad Braves teams have to do with the fact that he would make a half million dollars less next season or that he’s coming off surgery or that he’s a year younger? Also, it’s not like Vazquez has pitched on outstanding teams playing half his games in a pitcher’s park with great defenses behind him. Right after the Braves acquired Vazquez, I said this could be a perfect situation for him because he gets out from in front of one of the worst defensive teams in baseball.
Again, the choice is pretty clear unless you are being subjective about the whole thing.
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
3:51 pm
Vazquez, career FIP: 3.85. Career tRA: 4.53 (on an ERA scale that’s 4.22, or thereabouts)
Hudson, career FIP: 3.79. Career tRA: 4.46 (tERA about 4.11)
Javy strikes out more batters and walks less batters. Hudson does a better job of generating batted ball types that are easier to turn into outs (aka, ground balls) while Vazquez has seemingly been victimized by poor luck (BABIP) throughout his career (of note, this year his BABIP has been close to average, and you’re seeing the results).
Basically, you can expect similar results from both going forward. I’m not at all concerned about Hudson’s injury, the recovery rates are very, very good for the surgery, so can we please drop that argument?
The ideal way to go is to keep both of them and trade KK. However, that may not happen. If not…your guess is as good as mine, folks.
Cheese
August 21st, 2009
3:52 pm
Hudson comes back and if he is looking good and I mean IF! He stays in rotation move Lowe into a closer role
RHR
August 21st, 2009
3:52 pm
If it came from a song or something.
Piffle.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:53 pm
Efrim-
Gotcha but as I just said as long as we stumble against the muck teams we wont be doing anything and that usually falls on the bats. I think its they know they should pound them and that gets to them so they choke up.
DAP
August 21st, 2009
3:54 pm
shaun, wayne, yeah its gets murky when you try to figure out who we could trade vazquez for, but that makes me think that you have to at least look into trading vazquez, IF tim hudson looks pretty good coming back. hudson’s salary would probably be used mostly on free agents. there really arent a bunch of them thats are too impressive. if vazquez could be traded in a package for say…lance berkman (go easy, this is just a hypothetical) then it makes it a good idea to trade vazquez.
Thrillhouse44
August 21st, 2009
3:54 pm
Nova Scotia, you may want to scroll back up and read it – Random did a good job.
Nova Scotia Steve
August 21st, 2009
3:55 pm
I actually have been reading it….must have taken a while….
Lars Taint
August 21st, 2009
3:55 pm
Wayne and DAP beat me to the punch. Shaun has done a good job disproving his own points. Shaun points out that Vasquez may be slightly better than Hudson, but he must be a “casual fan” because he fails to see that you can get a much better position player in a trade involving Vasquez that you are going to get in free agency with the money you save on Hudson.
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
3:55 pm
Wayne in Utah, well I think anyone who wouldn’t take Vazquez over Hudson when looking at the whole picture isn’t being objective. That’s what I believe so I’m going to write it. Wren and the front office will prove it at the end of the season by either letting Hudson walk or buying out the option and trying to sign him to a lesser deal.
Bravesfan1984
August 21st, 2009
3:56 pm
cheese…sorry but i dont think the braves want to have a $15M per year closer…he closed a long time ago but closer needs to have strikeout stuff
Fish Bisch
August 21st, 2009
3:56 pm
Chipper’s old and ineffective = Marlins sweep.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
3:57 pm
Shaun-
Your not bringing any new points to your argue ment and we as a blog have countered everything you have said. STATS MATTER I’m not really sure how else to put it. There is a lot more to baseball then striking out batters and walk ratios, its poise under pressure and like Steve said hudson generates prolly one of the highest ground ball ratios in the bigs which is excellent when you have Yunel and Prado going into beast mode every night in the infield.
Glen W
August 21st, 2009
3:57 pm
Escoabr for Supreme Court – curious regarding your thoughts on this.
The Braves seem to play up/down to competition now, which is frustrating. But I think I prefer it to what I saw in the 90’s the Braves had a team that could mash mediocre opponents to the tune of 105-ish wins per year. Then they would always struggle to advance in the post-season. In the regular season, the likes of Javy and Andrew would crush mediocre pitching… Maddux and Glavine would toy with less advanced lineups, but in the post-season, you would consistently see them struggle (comparatively) against teams with seemingly less talent.
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
3:58 pm
Javy’s tERA should’ve been 4.18…
Wayne in Utah
August 21st, 2009
3:58 pm
Shaun at 3:51pm
“Again, the choice is pretty clear unless you are being subjective about the whole thing.”
Shaun, this is the type of stuff that wins friends for you!
rammerjammer
August 21st, 2009
3:58 pm
Glen W,
You said “OK, Vazquez is pitching great, to a large degree because he is finally pitching in a park that favors fly ball pitchers…” Sorry, but wrong. Vazquez’ home-and-away splits are nearly identical. It’s not the park. It’s the manager and the whole professional situation. The guy is with a team that suits his personality. He is money, and Frank would be nuts to trade him.
ncscoots
August 21st, 2009
3:58 pm
In other words, scoots is the blog version of MFIKY in his prime.
Man couldn’t carry my cleats of badness, LOL.
CB
August 21st, 2009
3:59 pm
NS Steve,just kidding but it is ok to read a long blog if it is not a Paul Lentz drivel,Random is good.
DAP
August 21st, 2009
4:00 pm
shaunI think anyone who wouldn’t take Vazquez over Hudson when looking at the whole picture isn’t being objective.
but you dont have all the information, (namely what vazquez could be traded for) so arent you rushing to judgment about what the best choice is?
wjones
August 21st, 2009
4:00 pm
September rotation:
Day 1–Vazquez first three innings; JJ middle three; Lowe last three
Day 2–KK first three innings; Hanson middle three; Huddy final three
Day 3–Use 9 relievers one inning each (Medlen, Carlyle, Boone, Acosta, Parr, O’Flaherty, Moylan, Gonzo, MFIKY).
Rinse and repeat. No one goes more than 3 innings, reducing pitch counts. Everyone gets two-three days in between appearances, eliminating overuse or rustiness. Perfect plan.
What is the chance of it ever happening? Less than zero, I would think.
Wayne in Utah
August 21st, 2009
4:01 pm
It is obvious that this situation is NOT clear to a lot of folks. Some are on the fence. Some are in your stable. Some in the opposite stable. In these cases, it is opinion and not right or wrong.
Not like saying that Randy Wolf is almost as good as Johan Santana, although this year, some might want to make that argument. Nobody in their right mind picks Wolf in that scenario. Vaqzuez vs Huddy is not so clear.
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:01 pm
Shaun-
Your not being objective your only discount Hudson because of his injury.
Glen W-
What is curious about my statement its true. I mean look at KK and all the big names he has beat recently. Now name me people who he has lost to and I’ll show you ERA’s of above 4.50. I agree I would rather bash on “great” but at the same time why cant we crush bad ones for 7+ runs a game like every other team does?
DAP
August 21st, 2009
4:01 pm
wjones, thats a terrible idea. im sure you werent serious.
McFann ;Ô;
August 21st, 2009
4:02 pm
OK…So what I miss? They found a body on Chipper’s Ranch? Nice…
Anibal Sanchez going tonight, eh? That’s usually a good thing…So glad there’s no Josh Johnson in this series!
Shaun
August 21st, 2009
4:02 pm
Steve from OH, even if you disregard the injury and assume they are likely to perform the exact same there is still the fact that Hudson’s option is a half million more dollars than Vazquez is due to make next season and Hudson’s a year older. Throw in the injury and the choice is fairly obvious.
he fails to see that you can get a much better position player in a trade involving Vasquez that you are going to get in free agency with the money you save on Hudson.
Well, what about using the Hudson money in a trade for a position player not necessarily involving Vazquez? Free agency is not the only way they can use the Hudson money.
Again, I think the only things more valuable than Vazquez are Cy Young contender type pitchers and all-star caliber position players. I don’t think the Braves are getting either of those for Vazquez so why trade him for less value than he brings to the club when you can improve the club without trading him?
Glen W
August 21st, 2009
4:02 pm
RJ – I agree that it sems that the environment seems more comfortable for Vazquez… this sort of goes back to the question of whether success breeds confidence or whether confidence breeds success. He pitches half of his games in a park that is conducive to him… that makes him more comfortable overall… which could also allow him to pitch more successfully on the road. I don’t think that you can look at all of these things in a vacuum. He’s comfortable and I chalk a big part of that up to the ball park being conducive to his pitching style.
Lunatic Fringe
August 21st, 2009
4:03 pm
With all this discussion about which pitcher to keep, everyone needs to remember an important rule about business—You don’t make a decision until you have to make the decision.
There is still way to much time to determine Huddy’s condition, the other pitchers conditions, who might be available in the fall, how much money the Braves have to spend, etc.
While these conversations might be interesting debates, anyone who says they know what will be happenning, is propably the one who does not know what will be happening.
PopeVanIII
August 21st, 2009
4:03 pm
Carroll asked:
Actually, yes. Immediately after the draft, multiple writers were suggesting that the Braves might have managed to grab the steal of the draft, the best hitter in the draft, etc., with the 14th pick.
So, not a great comparison. (I note this as a Vanderbilt graduate and big-time fan of Mikie Minor.)
Escobar for Supreme Court
August 21st, 2009
4:04 pm
Shaun-
JV is a Cy Young contender he is top 3 in the league in a lot of important stats why trade him away for another pitcher who would prolly make more money?
Fish Bisch
August 21st, 2009
4:05 pm
Anibel has owned the braves. He’s no pushover.
Nova Scotia Steve
August 21st, 2009
4:05 pm
Really looking forward to this series…especially with SF/Col going head to head.
Here is our best opportunity to make up some games…as long as we take care of business…its a massive series in that regard.
Then Col goes on to play the Dodgers…We’ve got the Padres…
knock knock
Steve from OH
August 21st, 2009
4:05 pm
Throw in the injury and the choice is fairly obvious
Not really. 1 year in age difference isn’t all that significant for these guys (neither is a half-million dollars), as they’re both durable pitchers with good stuff. Hudson is already back and throwing effectively in AAA. Tommy John is not at all a risky procedure, don’t make it to be as such.
There’s not a clear-cut answer, and don’t pretend like there is. If anything, trading Vazquez is the way to go because you can both control where he goes and get young, cheap, controllable talent in return. Not so for Hudson.