3:16 pm August 19, 2009, by David O'Brien
August 19th, 20096:44 pm
Big difference between DFA’ing a guy and just putting them on the waiver wire. If another team picks up a guy from the waiver wire, the NEW team pays his salary. If a team DFA’s a team, and then if he clears waivers, he is released and his OLD team pays his salary.
If he clears waivers, then his team is allowed to work out a deal for him.
If he is picked up from the waiver wire, then the old team can let him go to the other team for nothing, but the new team picks up his pay. (this is what happened to Rios, I believe)”
Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Still can’t see the Braves doing this while still in the pennant hunt, and yes I would think they would be claimed. KK’s contract isn’t that bad, and with Lowe I’m sure whoever claimed him would try to negotiate a situation where the Braves would split some cost. Or someone like the Red Sox or Yankees wouldn’t care, and since the Red Sox are behind the Yankees in the standings, I could see them putting in a claim not only to help themselves but to keep the Yankees from doing so.
I thought if a player had a guaranteed contract, the original team had to pay his entire original salary if released OR DFA. Am I wrong?
Nova Scotia Steve
August 19th, 20096:45 pm
Wayne in Utah…
Good post…you are correct and that why Toronot did what they did with Rios.
They wanted to salary off the books and got nothing in return from the White Sox.
Pure salary dump on an aweful contract.
Wayne in Utah
August 19th, 20096:46 pm
The OLD team ONLY picks up a guys salary if he is released. If he is put on the waiver wire, and is picked up, the NEW team picks up ALL his remaining salary. Also, if a team picks up a DFA’d player before the 10 day period is up, then the new team picks up ALL his remaining salary.
Guys are put on waivers all the time, but rarely are they just flat out released when they are owed so much.
My point in my question is that IF we were blowing off the season, and IF we were confident that Huddy comes back strong, we could float those two out on the waiver wire, to see if somebody down the stretch really wanted a starter bad enough to assume their salary.
August 19th, 20096:48 pm
LOL! Yeah, it is a bit pricey, but at least they give you a huge piece…I think I’ve only ever gotten one slice that I was dissatisfied with. (LOVE pizza…if it’s got pepperoni, I’m gonna eat it…)
Sounds good! Hmm…I love potatoes, too…
It’s good stuff. I’m not a big fish eater, but this I like. Like me some swordfish, too, but that stuff gets expensive…
brent a ith the way Ross is used, we might as well have Corky Miller.
Seriously…until Monday, I was beginning to wonder if he had been abducted by aliens or something…
Best BUC we’ve had since ‘05, and this is how they treat him…
I Been Watchin
I been watchin baseball for 50 years. Yes, a fact, 50 years.
The only time I ever seen a pitcher left in to give up 9 hits and 8 runs in one inning was in little league.
Beats all I ever seen!
August 19th, 20096:49 pm
As far as Bobby’s sternness goes, from all accounts he sets rules from day one and players know what is expected. Like others have said, he doesn’t embarass players publicly, but from the way he reacts to things, the way he gets in the umpires faces, the way he is with reporters at times, don’t think he isn’t capable of tearing into a player when the need arises. The player knows, though, that Bobby won’t publicly embarass them, and will stick up for them in the media, with the umpires, etc. So I don’t think for a minute that Bobby is running a “country club” at all; it’s also not a prison ward.
njbraves, he came up in LOTS of RBI situations, in games ultimately lost, where he struck-out or GIDP. LOTS of those games would have had different outcomes with a few hits in those spots. I honestly believe he lost us AT LEAST 8-games with his REMARKABLE incompetence.
August 19th, 20096:51 pm
How can Bobby Cox leave a pitcher in when he is getting rocked like Lowe was last night? I was thinking after the Mets scored 2 runs and Lowe’s history with the Mets and the past games he was hit or rocked, if Joe Torres or Tony LaRusse was managing, or anybody other than Cox, Lowe would have been pulled.
This is why I think the Braves will never win another WS with Cox unless the team is overpowering in hitting and pitching.
Your example of the Red Sox is exactly what I was thinking. If the Braves decided (which I doubt they would) that they did not have a good enough shot at the post season, they might give up Lowe’s contract so that they would be in a better spot salary wise next year.
Another thought is that IF they were confident enough in Medlen and Huddy’s return, then a move like that would be a good start at getting themselves set up to be competitive for FA’s this winter.
(I will probably get an azz reaming from DOB for suggesting such a crazy idea!)
I Quit Watchin
August 19th, 20096:53 pm
JJ just started interviewing Frenchy, so I changed the channel.
Can we all say ‘overexposure” for Frenchy even after he’s gone? Surprised SS isn’t still playing “Jeff Francouer, In my own words!”
Dan in NJ
August 19th, 20096:54 pm
Not being a wise a$$ here.
I would love to know, what exactly does a (any) manager have to do to get fired?
I read this blog often and I see many people defending BC to death. I just don’t see how and why. What exactly has he done to deserve to continue to manage this team? Nevermind what he hasn’t done.
When do you call for change? When is enough enough? We all know that the Braves haven’t won in years now. SO, when is it time to let him go and try something new?
I’d bet that these same people that defend BC, would be the same people that could walk in on their mates cheating on them and still some how, some way, find an excuse or reason to be ok with it. An excuse such as…..”well I haven’t been making myself available for her so its not really all her fault she cheated on me”…”its my fault as well for not being there for her”. and so on.
wjones, he embarrassed Yunel publicly….
Mid Town Joe
I got a buddy out in Washington and he travels all over WA, OR, ID, MT, etc. He just got re-married and went on a cruise to Alaska. They got to go salmon fishing, and caught their limit each day. He’s sending me a boatload of smoked salmon from his trip. Can’t wait to cook that!!
18 Wheels of Love
August 19th, 20096:56 pm
DOB and other NYC vets,
Heading up in November to see Ricky Gervais at Carnegie Hall. Care to recommend some decent restaurants in the area? I’ve been a few times but looking for something different this go ’round. Gracias.
And if BC makes some goofy comments about how a pitcher had good stuff when he really got rocked, don’t ya think that might be a bit of a spillover of him protecting his guys????
He has ALWAYS done that. He knows that Lowe sucked last night. He’s not going to come out and say “Lowe sucked tonight” unless he knows that is what the pitcher needs to hear.
And some folks get all bent out of shape when he makes those comments. Read between the lines, folks.
August 19th, 20096:57 pm
Folks are using faux names to bash Bobby, then returning to their original monikers.
Yep, uh-huh… lol
Shamus Thacker: “I thought if a player had a guaranteed contract, the original team had to pay his entire original salary if released OR DFA. Am I wrong?”
Youre right if no one else picks that player up, but if another team signs him (like St Louis with Smoltz) then St. Louis has to pay the minimum salary, pro-rated over the amount of time left in the year (which isnt very much).
August 19th, 20096:58 pm
njbraves: yes, the Braves are a mid market team. You have the Dodgers, Cubs, Astros, Mets, Phillies. Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Angels, and Mariners that are all in the $110 to $200 million range. The Marlins, Nationals, Pirates, Diamondbacks, Giants(for this year anyway)Rays, Orioles,Royals, Twins and Rangers at about $60 Mil and below and the rest fall between between approximately $70 to (7 million.
Mid Town Joe–
Dan in NJ
It’s OK Dan. Some folks just aren’t smart enough to figure stuff out.
August 19th, 20096:59 pm
The job is Bobby’s until he’s done…period.
Braves Fan in SC
The Braves lose easily tonight and get swept by the AA Mets tomorrow. Season over folks. This team can’t win with Bobby Cox and Chipper Jones. There I said it.
This was posted by “Angus” on M.B.’s blog earlier today. I think it is relavent to the discussion here regarding B.C.
Every Braves blog has now become debate on Bobby Cox. My thoughts:
- You’re not going to change anyone’s mind on this blog.
- Baseball games are decided by the players on the field. The Braves love playing for BC and play/work hard for him.
- The Braves could have mailed-in the season a long time ago – they didn’t. I believe BC had something to do with that.
- He’s as good as any manager in the game. He knows baseball is a numbers game and that’s how it should be managed (i.e., if choice A works 60% and choice B works 40% of the time, you choose A 100% of the time). And he knows the numbers as well as anyone.
- To his detractors every win (2,389 and counting) is in spite of him, every loss is because of him.
- Half of his detractors yell when he pulls a starter (”he’s wearing out the bullpen!”), the other half….you know.
- You can’t game plan for a very good starter getting hammered (2005 Game 1 vs Houston, Hudson 5 ER in 6 IP and last night’s aberration). You lose those games probably 90% of the time, regardless of managerial moves.
- Hindsight management is right 100% of the time. Nothing and no one is right 100% of the time in the real baseball world.
- Time will look very favorably upon Bobby Cox. He will be remembered as one of the all-time greats.
- I pray this doesn’t happen for the Braves, but when he retires, his detractors very likely will get to see what bad management looks like.
Again, by no means am I expecting to change anyone’s mind, but I do think some of you are way off base.
August 19th, 20097:00 pm
Wayne, if he was painfully aware that D-Lo sucked, why leave him in so long?
McFann Ô: “Pete–
LOL! Yeah, it is a bit pricey, but at least they give you a huge piece…I think I’ve only ever gotten one slice that I was dissatisfied with. (LOVE pizza…if it’s got pepperoni, I’m gonna eat it…)”
I should have clarified re: last time I bought a hot dog at Chop House, it came with potato chips and a $12.00 invoice so lets just say if you and I go to a game, youre buying lol
FIRE BOOBY COX….STRRRRIIIKKKKEEE TWOOOOOOOOO
Haha, yeah I forgot to add a few Mfin. I mean typos do happen but I see so many of the same people spelling the names wrong time after time. Its like when Glavine came up people spelled his name as Glavin but that was when he was really young, however, i see that spelling all the time. I don’t understand how people spell Maddux as Maddox it doesn’t even look right when talking about him, heh.
I hope we score early otherwise the blog is gonna collapse.
August 19th, 20097:01 pm
njbraves: Final numbers should be $70 to $97 million.
(not 100% sure, but this is what I think happened)
St. Louis waited until 48 hours after Smoltz was released, so they are liable for a pro-rated portion of league minimum, not the pro-rated portion of his yearly. That is why they waited until after noon today.
DOB, correct me if I am wrong.
August 19th, 20097:02 pm
Let’s Do This!
Nova Scotia Steve: The job is Bobby’s until he’s done…period.
Two-hours tops in my Big Green Egg!
August 19th, 20097:05 pm
Just a thought that came to mind while at work.
Does anyone realize how many Braves pithers ( mainly relief ) have gone down or just hurt in recent years.
Soriano, Gonzo, Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Moylan, Campillo, Hampton,
Mike Remy, Hammonds, Karsay, Boyer(?) JoJo, James, and many more that just aren’t comming to mind at this moment. Makes you wonder though…doesn’t it? Any other team had this problem with so many pitchers?
August 19th, 20097:06 pm
Couldn’t have said it better…thanks!
I don’t know, I wasn’t engaged in the game last night after the 3rd inning. I had heard that BC went out to visit and that McDowell went out again. Could it be something to do with him not going out soon enough due to visits, then after another hit or two, it was too late, so hope for the best???? I don’t know.
I am not about to try to explain every one of BC’s bad moves. Was Medlen ready early enough??? Nothing worse than sending in a guy who is not ready.
August 19th, 20097:07 pm
Don’t get me wrong; I hope Bobby makes the correct decision 100% of the time and we reach the playoffs! THAT is my main concern. I just believe a change is in due order after the season. I wish I didn’t feel that way, but it’s become obvious to me that he’s done.
There is a trail of pitcher’s tears that follows Dusty Baker.
August 19th, 20097:08 pm
Wayne in Utah: “Pete
(not 100% sure, but this is what I think happened)
St. Louis waited until 48 hours after Smoltz was released, so they are liable for a pro-rated portion of league minimum, not the pro-rated portion of his yearly. That is why they waited until after noon today.”
Wayne, thats what I meant (pro-rated portion of minimum, not contract) so maybe my post wasnt clear. But I dont understand what you mean by the 48 hour part; I didnt think it mattered when someone was signed after released?
August 19th, 20097:10 pm
“I should have clarified re: last time I bought a hot dog at Chop House, it came with potato chips and a $12.00 invoice…”
Meant to add I had an option to defer payment with no interest until January 2010 lol
Wayne in Utah: I am not about to try to explain every one of BC’s bad moves.
The fact you acknowledged his “bad moves” is enough….
August 19th, 20097:12 pm
monty………your 5:25pm posting misses the point. Expecting the offense to pick up the pace last night after that 4th inning has nothing to do with “calling a secret meeting”. It has to do with the offense LOOKING DEEP WITHIN THEMSELVES and saying…….. “our starting pitching has BAILED US OUT on many a night this season when we SUCKED A$$……….tonight we are going to try and return the favor”.
I’m sorry, but you CANNOT TELL ME that the last 6 innings of last night’s game, from an offensive perspective…….WASNT PATHETIC. How many times do I have to say….OLIVER FREAKING PEREZ AND THE PATHETIC METS BULLPEN? On a night when the starting pitching needed the offense to BAIL IT OUT……….our offense LAID DOWN.
There is no other way to spin this. We are 119 games into the season. The starting pitching has carried us this far. It’s ABOUT TIME for the offense to get off its LAZY A$$ and help carry this team on nights when we need it.
August 19th, 20097:14 pm
lol I can picture Loafy’s expression while he’s saying those things to Boog too.
I think if a player is picked up within 48 hours (it could be 72, just not sure) of being DFA’d, the team picking them up assumes a prorated portion of their salary.
August 19th, 20097:15 pm
bubble tea sound good….
however, i doubt i can find any in the great state of alabama…
A message for all who believe D. Lowe is a good investment at $15 mil per year. So far, the aging “ace” has pitched 154 innings. 230 baserunners allowed. Only 79 K’s, and a 4.45 ERA.
And he’s only going to get older. For 3 more years. Let the celebration begin.
The good news is, one more disaster like Tuesday night, and he’ll dissolve into a sweat puddle, never to blow a big game again.
August 19th, 20097:16 pm
Alabama has bubble puppies
August 19th, 20097:18 pm
Here is a wonderful idea–let’s see how we do the rest of the way before deciding we need a new manager. How many times over the years has a team decided to fire its college basketball coach, then they catch fire in the tourney and reconsider? Doesn’t happen every year, but enough times to make overreaction a bad idea. If we were to win ten in a row, how many would be still saying to get rid of him? Again, as someone else said, this isn’t football, and one game does not make or break us. Yes, wins are precious and important and time is slipping away, but we are still in it. Will we win? Who knows? But it’s a lot more fun to be in a race than out, so let’s see how this thing ends before rushing to judgment.
Hmm…we’d prob’ly have to bring our own food then…
Weren’t you banned? ya know, when DOB first posted that you had been toasted until further notice, your posts magically found a new tone, but give it a day or 2 and you’re right back on your screaming and ranting…and I’m sure very soon..insulting verbage.
I’m sorry, but Monty is right – the offense can’t just go in a secret meeting and say – “well, we WERE going to coast tonight but because d-low had a bad inning, we better show the “real” offense. give me a break.
I dare say that every manager makes mistakes every week.
August 19th, 20097:22 pm
Nice Gun and Tag by B-Macc and ESCO!!!
August 19th, 20097:23 pm
I stand corrected that was “O” that made the tag!
Ha ha!! You’re out!! Nice throw!
I guess 20 out of 26 starts with 3 or less ER’s in not good enough for you, huh?
Doesn’t matter, they have their minds made up already.
All you gotta do is push the right buttons, and the volcano erupts.
August 19th, 20097:25 pm
The Braves had a bad outing last night, and unfortunately we can’t change last nights game we can only hope the game plays out for us tonight. I am really happy to see that the Braves have done a lot better this year than last year.
Mets announcers are ripping Castillo for his straight on, non-avoidance slide.
Good thing Infante was covering on that play. That’s the throw Esco likes to let go into centerfield.
August 19th, 20097:26 pm
Yeah B-Macc! But Man is He Slow!
August 19th, 20097:27 pm
Come on, Mac. My grandma could have turned that into a double.
Wayne in Utah -
you’re right. Have a good night, all. Go Braves!
Chipper sure has been striking out alot……. is he on pace to have his first 100 k year????
August 19th, 20097:28 pm
It’s good to see these guys trying to hit singles instead of swinging for the fences like they did in Atlanta
Let’s go Esco… No dp… No dp… No dp…
August 19th, 20097:29 pm
Why do you post music after every post? It is idiotic.
Bobby Cox worshipers, please explain:
1. Why did he leave the poor-fielding, poor-hitting Kelly Johnson in the lineup for 80 games this year, with better alternatives available?
2. Why did he leave the rally-killing Jeff Franceour in the lineup for more than two years, with better alternatives available?
3. Why did he choose to retain Greg Norton in the key pinch-hitting role, with a batting average at half the Mendoza line, with far better alternatives available?
4. Why did he insist on allowing notorious fire-starter Jeff Bennett to lose key games, when there were better arms available? And why did it take an act of stupidity from Bennett himself to prevent Cox from using him?
5. Why has Cox effectively worn out a decent, surgically repaired relief corps, with the most over-use in the major leagues?
6. Why has Cox repeatedly harassed one of the 2 or 3 best offensive/defensive shortstops in baseball for his occasional lapses, while allowing about a dozen others to loaf on the field with no repercussions?
7. Why did Cox insist on playing Casey Kotchman (and occasionally batting him as high as 4th or 5th in the lineup) for an unproductive year when there were faster/more powerful alternatives available?
8. Why does Cox insist on batting an overworked Brian McCann in the cleanup position when he’s clearly unable to produce there?
9. Why has Cox not found a way to get more at-bats from David Ross, probably the best bench hitter on the entire team? (There are ways to have a 3rd/emergency catcher available…other teams do it)
10. Why does Cox insist on wearing down many players to the point of unproductivity, while keeping promising players (Kris Medlen, Boone Logan, etc.) on the bench for two weeks at a time?
11. Why did it take Cox 3 months to realize Martin Prado was a high-average impact player? Everyone on this stinkin’ blog figured it out in April and May.
12. How badly did Cox misjudge and misuse a promising young outfielder (Jordan Schaefer) who as we all knew by the end of April, was clearly not ready for the major leagues? How much damage was done to his psyche by rushing him into a situation for which he was woefully unprepeared?
Cox worshipers, answer these questions, and then summarize how a team with an overall way-above-average starting pitching staff will miss the playoffs again this year. And then tell me what a great job he has done with this team.
Come On B-Macc!!!
August 19th, 20097:30 pm
Please score something here.
Cmon Diaz..no DP please! man Mac is SLOW!
Only one question: Are you kidding me???
must score 2 runs with the sacs full and no outs!
August 19th, 20097:31 pm
Just an innocent question: Is it possible for players to work on their speed during the offseason? I understand that Mac is a catcher and a touch overweight, but the Braves should be encouraging him to get himself more fit during this next offseason.
There We Go Matty-D!!!
I dare say that every manager makes mistakes every week.”"
Does every manager leave a valued starter in a game till he’s totally humiliated? How many times has a manager, any manager, left a pitcher in against the Muts to the point of carnage we witnessed last night? Ain’t it like, what? Never?
Wayne in Utah:
“I think if a player is picked up within 48 hours (it could be 72, just not sure) of being DFA’d, the team picking them up assumes a prorated portion of their salary.”
Not sure Wayne cause if thats the case, then St Louis took a risk by waiting because someone else could have signed him, right? I think the 48 hour thing has to do with clearing waivers, but Im not sure either. How anyone can keep up with all these rules, designations (DFA, released, purchased contract, optioned, outrighted, 48 hours, etc. etc.) is way beyond me.
Matty-D has been Clowning over the last week or so!
August 19th, 20097:32 pm
Awesome lets single them to death lol
Wow…there’s something different.
A base hit with the bases loaded. WOW
Thank God Matty Diaz is hot…cause not many other ball players on this team are right now at the moment
Matt Diaz is a baseball player!
Ok, this is off topic and I dont post much anymore, just read, but have any of you guys seen this crazy Tommy Hanson website? Pretty freakin funny
NO MORE BOBBY
August 19th, 20097:33 pm
curtis jones – You are my hero.
Come on Churchy – gotta do something productive there.
We can’t bunt to save our life.
August 19th, 20097:34 pm
Come On “O”!
Mixxo from Bonaire
JJ with his “I’m a hitter” game face!
August 19th, 20097:35 pm
Joe – Matt Diaz is a baseball player!
Has to be the biggest goober comment made by a Braves announcer this year. He said it with such pride and its obvious he has a man crush on him.
Pschhh Mixxo, JJ’s a slugger. Shoulda let him swing away.
Head First “O”!!!
Hee Haw I like It!
Not many people blogging for this one…guess many are still disgusted from yesterday’s dibacle.
Omar SHOULD NOT be diving into first base
August 19th, 20097:36 pm
Omar!!! nice smack, keep it going guys
faninva……….so are you telling me that on nights that the starting pitchers suck..that the offense can just go about it’s merry way, score 4 runs and say “we did out job tonight”?
Yet when Kawakami loses 2-1 against the Mets on the Saturday after the All-Star Break………..then it’s HIS FAULT because he didnt hold a 1-0 lead?
You cant have it both ways. You cant expect the starting pitching to BAIL out the offense night after night…….YET………..say that it’s ok for the offense to not pick up the starting pitching on nights that the starting pitching needs a bail out.
I DO NOT think that it is unreasonable AT ALL to expect the offense to do more than what it did last night in the final 6 innings of the game. Last night, we need the offense to CARRY US. After all, our starting pitching has been carry us ALL SEASON LONG.
We are already up. Hopefully we keep it up.
I really don’t think anybody wanted him for full pay. After he clears, then it’s his call.
Why, Omar? Why on earth would a guy who’s twice broke his hand and missed much of two seasons, slide head-first into first base? On a play when he didn’t need to, and when it actually slowed him down?
August 19th, 20097:37 pm
Wow. We’ll take it. Way to hustle Loafy!
I think that the Mets are having their own MELTDOWN tonight.
Yunel hamming it up for the camera. LOL.
Yeahhh!!! I will take the mental error!!!
Lets make this 4 run lead stick Disco-Round!
LOAF!!! hell yeah this is what i like come on Chipper Break out of it!!!
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