3:53 pm August 16, 2009, by David O'Brien
August 16th, 20093:57 pm
August 16th, 20093:58 pm
August 16th, 20093:59 pm
Every time Moylan pitches, an angel gets its wings.
Francoeur the rally starter.
Nice win, Mets. Good work.
August 16th, 20094:00 pm
McFann ;Ô; (August 16th, 2009 2:48 pm): “…though I know most girls want to be younger…”
No, most girls (and boys) want to be older.
Most women (and men) want to be younger.
You’ll find out for yourself soon enough.
The Bird and Indian
August 16th, 20094:01 pm
Great song choice DOB! My all time favorite Elvis song
yang started to feel that pressure
August 16th, 20094:02 pm
August 16th, 2009
Shame on me… Meant to say:
mets beat sf
August 16th, 20094:03 pm
haha…..frenchy saw ten ptches total in for at-bats…god love him
Bobby’s Cox………..I’m not saying that Brian McCann is complaining about his contract. I’m sure that he is content to be playing near his family and with the security that the 2007 contract provides him.
However, not all players are looking to take less money for security. Francoeur obviously has gambled. And to be honest, it may pay off for him.
Brian McCann signed his contract before the 2007 season. He got a $1mil signing bonus, a 2007 salary of $500K, 2008 salary of $800K, and a 2009 salary of $3.5 mil. That’s a total of $5.8 mil for McCann from years 2-4.
Jeff Francoeur earned $427K in 2007, $460K in 2008, and $3.375 mil in 2009. That’s a total of $4.26 mil from years 2-4.
McCann earned $1.55 mil more than Francoeur in years 2-4. However, next year, McCann is scheduled to make $5.5 mil. If the Mets offer Francoeur arbitration (and it looks like they will. From the look of things, the NY media loves Francoeur), then Francoeur could very easily double his salary and get awarded between $7-8 mil in arbitration.
To be conservative, let’s say that Francoeur gets $7 mil next year. He will make $1.5 more than McCann in year 5. In 2011, McCann is slated to earn $6.5 mil. Meanwhile, if Francoeur can put together a decent year next year (I know, a big if, but still……..I hate to say this………possible), then he can get another raise to over $10 mil. If that happens, then Francoeur will have earned at least $3.5 mil more than Brian McCann in years 2-6.
Also, while Francoeur will be a free agent after the 2011 season, the Braves have McCann under contract for 2012 at $8.5 mil. A lot can happen between now and then, however given how the Mets like to hand out “big” contracts…….it is not stretching the realm of reality that Francoeur can secure a big free agent contract. All this, despite the fact that McCann is a far “superior” hitter than Jeff Francoeur.
The Braves have a $12 mil option on McCann for the 2013 season. 4 years from now, $12 mil for a power hitting catcher will be a good bargain. As it stands right now, Francoeur will have a hard time ever making $12 mil in a season. However, for a player like Escobar and Jurrjens, if they keep playing the way they are capable of doing, $12 mil will seem like an “insult” to them. And seeing that, it is easy to see how difficult a time the Braves will have when it comes to locking up Escobar, Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson, and if he proves himself, Jason Heyward.
You have to take emotion out of it and look at it logically.
Again, I’m not saying that Brian McCann didnt do the right thing I’m just trying to give you some insight into the “motive” of a player who wants to “get paid”. Bringing up the Francoeur-McCann earnings shows a player who is better than Francoeur (like Escobar and Jurrjens) that if a BUM like Francoeur can end up making more than Brian McCann over a 6 year period…..then there is no telling what they (Escobar and Jurrjens) can make if they play the arbitration game and not give up a year of free agency.
How hard is that to understand?
August 16th, 20094:04 pm
Now maybe everyone will shut up about the overuse of the bullpen. I doubt it though.
Brandon from Warner Robins
August 16th, 20094:06 pm
Good Post, Paul @ 4:03
Paul Lentz…who cares how much Francouer makes next year??? He’s not our problem anymore. You’ve been posting the same exact argument for over two days…give it up.
August 16th, 20094:07 pm
August 16th, 20094:08 pm
Thanks for the new Blog, Chief!
joe im just curious…what the heck is that symbol next to your name supposed to be…? all i can think of is that it looks like a turtle
It is a turtle! To be exact, it’s a Rally Turtle. Last year, at the beginning of July, I found a turtle and typed a little thing about him on the Blog. The Braves were playing out West, and anway, the game started to get a little boring. Uga-brave mentioned my turtle, and the next thing you knew, the Braves had a rally. (BMac hit two solo-shots that night as well–the Braves won 9 to…3.)
The next morning I read the Night Blogging about “Rally McTurtle”, and then I figured out how to make a typie that looked like a turtle, so he stuck around.
(I also think of BMac as being like a turtle–slow, kinda shy, and always gives you all he’s got. )
Good point…yah, I’m not a woman just yet. I’ll let that one wait a while…
Me, I’m cool with my age. Sometimes I do forget how old I am, though.
brandon from WR
im just going to take your word for it
August 16th, 20094:10 pm
Heath Shame on me… Meant to say: Giants lose!!!!!
Yeah, geez…you gotta watch that!
Who Am I
Blah…….Blah………….’blah’ ….Blah BLAH, blah blah “blah”. Blah, blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah… “blah”. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah? Blah blah “blah” blah blah blah “blah”, (blah blah blah blah blah).
August 16th, 20094:11 pm
I think you’re getting WAY ahead of yourself to think the Mets are going to offer Jeff F. arbitration. I hope they do. I’m not going to lie.
But it’s an enormous ‘if.’
I couldn’t imagine spending in the neighborhood of 8 million dollars for an OBP of less than .300 and OPS hovering around .700.
Plus, it’s the risk-reward nature of contracts. McCann, as a catcher, is far more likely to suffer a serious injury than Francoeur was.
There was no guarantee when he signed his deal that he would stay (relatively) healthy and become a perennial all-star. He could’ve hit .200 in 2007 and been out of baseball in 2008, and he’d still be getting paid.
Francoeur took a risk and made chump money for two years (again, relatively speaking) and now may, MAY, get a nice pay day. Or he might be released and never come anywhere close to making what McCann did.
Well another Heyward post can’t hurt.
Aside from all the Economic issues and statistics of why or why not, One point that is my biggest factor to consider this:
The Dude is a GAMER, how many of you have played on or been closely involved with a team over the years to see that spirit that a special player brings to a team. Just recently Wellman (his coach) said him showing up at Mississippi has brought a winning presence to the team , having him made everyone better. That’s the big difference you will see when he makes it, he has tools, attitude and presence. All qualities of a winner. The same big game attitude that everyone saw with Tommy Gun. We have had pitchers who had skills, Hitters who had skills and where are they now? We have had a few keepers.
The whole baseball world sees it, his coaches declare it, and time will defend it.
You can’t rationalize that aspect of a player, can’t chart that , you measure it by the accolades, awards and championships he gets over the years . I will be happy if they don’t bring him up till spring, I will buy a jersey and a few tickets if he makes it this playoff season.
Phils, Mets, Marlins ,Nats all lose when he begins here, just like with Hanson.
Folks we Win either way now or spring. That’s what so good about it.
August 16th, 20094:13 pm
“from August 13th, 2009 12:28 pm:
Tomahawkin (August 12th, 2009 7:27 pm): “You wanna Raise Me in my saying that Chipper hasn’t been clutch this year…?”
What does that even mean — “Raise Me”? Is it some kind of a trick question? (Like, “Who was US civil rights leader MLK named for?)
Or since you emptily claim that Chipper hasn’t been “clutch” (which you decline to define), are you now simply trying to put the burden on me to disprove your baseless (at least, unsupported by you) claim?
Are you baiting me? That’s okay — I will rise.
I’ve already pointed out to you (and you were unable to refute) the fact that “Chipper has no more control over who’s on base in front of him than he does in ‘deciding’ in which Plate Appearances he’s going to hit a home run.”
That’s the “reasoning” portion of the argument — here’re the “facts” about what Chipper does do when he’s at bat with runners on base::
Chipper has had 417 Plate Appearances this season, during 187 of which there have been runners on base — a total of 242 runners on base during 187 PAs.
Of those 242 baserunners, Chipper has driven in 38 for an OBI percentage of 15.70%. This is good for 3rd place among Braves (minimum 300 PAs) behind McCann, who has driven in 44 baserunners of 275 on base during 199 PAs (16.00%) and Escobar, who has driven in 49 baserunners of 240 on base during 174 PAs (20.42%!). Garrett Anderson is 4th at 15.35% and Martin Prado is next with 14.15%.
Of all NL third basemen with at least 300 Plate Appearances, Chipper is 4th in OBI percentage, behind PSandoval (17.71%), PFeliz (16.67%) and CBlake (16.35%), and ahead of IStewart 15.15% and KKouzmanoff (14.85%). RZimmerman is 7th (14.33%) and DWright is 9th (13.95%).
So, Chipper is top three in “clutchimosiness” among the Braves, and top four among all NL third basemen.
Now, let’s see yours.”
Dude You Know as well as I know that Chipper has been far from clutch this year, especially hitting with runners on base during the late innings. If the braves make the playoffs this year he needs to come correct like he did in 1999
Plus Those stats that you threw up at me were moot. BTW because those situations in which he hits with runners on base do not subtract to the stats in which he hits with R.I.S.P. And better yet hitting with R.I.S.P. from the seventh inning on
You know as well as I know that Chipper has been far from MVP caliber during games from the 7th inning On…
Oh yeah I’m not hating on him but that’s how its been for the last year
Where You At…?
August 16th, 20094:14 pm
lol McFann, I saw the posts about everyone’s age. If it makes you feel better, I thought you were 18 or 19. I was pretty close.
And, T’Hawkin my bad. I thought you were like 35.
Steve from OH
chilidog–yep, can’t analyze contracts like that in a vacuum. Plus, had Francoeur began his career with any other team, he’d likely have been sent down more than once (and possibly non-tendered), making his likely arbitration value less.
August 16th, 20094:15 pm
njbraves……….dude, my 4:03pm posting wasnt so much about Francoeur……as it was about trying to explain the difficult time that the Braves will have in trying to offer a “Brian McCann” type contract to our young players like Yunel Escobar, Jair Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson, and possibly Jason Heyward (he still needs to prove that he can rake ML pitching), in order to get them to give up their salary arbitration years and a possible year or two of free agency.
The comparisons of the McCann/Francoeur earnings are things that our youngsters who are more talented than Jeff Francoeur play attention to, especially their agents.
The reason I brought this up is because a number of people on here keep making reference to calling up Jason Heyward right now…….OR having him make the 2010 opening day roster. The economics of such a move would cost the Braves millions. Plus, the “idea” of assuming that the Braves are going to lock up Heyward is, at best, very premature.
If Heyward is indeed a stud like many of you think he is, then it is going to take MUCH MORE than a “Brian McCann contract” to get him to give up his arbitration years.
Doesn't Matter Who You Are
August 16th, 20094:16 pm
Who Am I
Whoever you are, you are quite a bit more annoying than the person you are imitating. So…stop.
Brandon from Warner Robins……thanks for the props with your 4:06pm posting.
August 16th, 20094:17 pm
That song will always remind me of the made for TV movie with Kurt Russell (don’t laugh-he was freaking fantastic) as Elvis. He and his band are practicing the song as Priscilla is out of their sight listening and you can tell she’s relating to the lyrics in a really personal manner. Apparently they broke up not too long afterwards. It’s a great movie and is highly recommended.
Sorry, momentary lapse of sanity there….
August 16th, 20094:20 pm
Paul Lentz…I know what you’re posting about, but do you have to post about it 50 times a day??
Brian the Brain
Since Florida and Colorado are playing a double header, if Florida beats Colorado twice, and the Braves win…the Braves would be behind both Florida and Colorado by 1.5 games. Somebody check my math and see if that’s right.
cabravesfan – that song came out the year I began obsessively listening to music, so I heard it quite often on the radio that summer (of course, I was only 4 or 5 at the time)
August 16th, 20094:22 pm
chilidog75……….again, I didnt say that Brian McCann was foolish to sign the contract back in 2007. I’m saying that the fact that a BUM like Jeff Francoeur could make more than McCann in years 2-6 WILL NOT be lost on players like Escobar, Jurrjens, Hanson, and potentially Heyward.
If the Mets can sign a BUM like Oliver Perez to a 3 year $36 mil contract…..then it would not be a stretch that they would offer Francoeur arbitration. So knowing that, $7-8 mil is very possible for Francoeur in 2010. If they feel that they can build a marketing capaign around Francoeur, especially given how the NY media has responded to him, they may even offer him a 3 or 4 year contract.
Again, we are talking about the METS.
Let me ask you this: Do you think that Escobar and Jurrjens would be smart to accept a “Brian McCann type contract”?
August 16th, 20094:23 pm
And Please People If we lose Tonight…
Please Refrain from saying “Season Over” knowing that we have 6 more games against the phillies and our last 10 days of the season favor us
I don’t mind people calling Ballgame in the fifth because this offense is so incnsistant but If people want to call “Season Over” In August then get your carcas off the Hooooo-Trrraaaaiiinnnn (Bandwagon) and go to the Falcons/Bulldogs Blogs….
August 16th, 20094:24 pm
By the way,
Is it pretty much agreed upon that Hanley Ramirez is the second-best player in baseball?
The guy is 3 for 5 today, with a double and a home run, and is now hitting .357 with 18 home runs, 82 RBIs, 22 stolen bases and has an OPS of .992.
August 16th, 20094:25 pm
Brian the Brain, the good thing is we would be 1 back in the loss column if all that happens.
njbraves………if you dont know what I’m posting about, then you should refrain from commenting on it.
At least I take the time to read a posting before I reply to it.
Who was that rooting for Paddy? Sorry, buddy.
harrington is done
that was back before you saw the error of your ways now wasn’t it? And how did you start “obsessively” listening to Elvis when you were that young? (because I know you would never deceive the blog about your age now would you?? )
August 16th, 20094:26 pm
Nice chip there Paddy…
August 16th, 20094:27 pm
LOL, What the Hell, 35?
35, lol I feel degraded…lol
You seem like Your like 27-30, No…?
August 16th, 20094:28 pm
chilidog–given what position he plays, an argument can certainly be made that he’s a lot closer in value to Pujols than most fans would think as well.
quintuple-bogey for Harrington………..that is an 8 on a par 3. John Daly like.
That was just awful… just like last week when he was playnig golf about 40 minutes from my house.
August 16th, 20094:29 pm
Tomahawkin: I’m guessing mid 20’s for you.
Soph: Mid to late 20’s.
What about for me everyone?
Ouch Paddy. Just…ouch.
Go…well, just lose Tiger.
August 16th, 20094:30 pm
Gonna Be a close and dramatic game tonight… “Bank On It!”
We Will beat Cy Happ Tonight if we do the following things…
1) Stop swinging for the Fences, Nuff Said we are not in Philly! It seems like with the big crowds our hitters keep swinging for the fences trying to impress cause everyone knows that Chicks dig the longball
2) Make Cy Happ Work! Work the counts so that we can get our licks against Chan Ho Park and his Posse!
B-Macc Made King Cole Hamels Work Yesterday by making him throw around 30 pitches.! Nuff Respect to B-Macc for doing that! What B-Macc did doesn’t show up in the box score but It was a difference in the game
lol, I said my bad T’Hawkin. Nah, in all honestly I thought you were 30 at the oldest. I just turned 26 last month.
"Chef" Tim Dix
August 16th, 20094:31 pm
Tiger in the sand?
No birdies on par 3’s ALL week?
Guess he does bleed red afterall.
Mid Town Joe
DOB Can you set-up a seperate blog for the Journalism Majors?
August 16th, 20094:32 pm
Yup, Bird and Indian very good – I’m 26. I would guess you are about 21-25. Am I close?
I’ll be at the game again tonight.
cabravesfan – darling, I said obsessively listening to music – Elvis just was part of the vast panoply of music I heard (too bad I was too young to make the hundred-fifty mile trip to Bethel 40 years ago this week). And as I look back at my post, perhaps there was a 1missing once or twice – my typing skills are not as good as they used to be.
Fish really putting it on the Rocks… 10-3 bases loaded still…. for something like the 6th time today.
August 16th, 20094:34 pm
It’s J.A. Happ, not “A.J. Happ”.
August 16th, 20094:35 pm
Tiger tried to pull a Paddy…
DOB, drop by and see me, aisle 323, row 1, seats 101,2,3,4.
Nope. I don’t think they would be smart to accept that deal. But they aren’t catchers — who rarely, if ever, get the big money.
When are Yunel and JJ set to go to arbitration?
August 16th, 20094:37 pm
actually by my math the braves can’t end up 2 games out in the wild card tonight but could actually get within 1 and 1/2… the rockies and marlins are playing a double header..
so by my math if the braves win and the marlins sweep the double header then they will move into a tie for 1st in the wc at 64-54 and the braves would be 2 games out in the win column and 1 out in the loss column (1 1/2 out)..if they split the double header then the rockies would end the day at 64-53 and the giants and fish would be tied for 2nd at 63-54 and the braves would be 3 games out in the win column and 2 out i the loss column (2 1/2 out)
i think that make
Ha Ha, I’m at the quarter century mark, so it’s all Good!
D.O.B. is old enough to be my daddy, lol
chilidog–Yunel and JJ make the league min next year and go to arb in 2011. But then again, they’d get a contract a bit different than McCann’s–they’d get one more similar to Prince Fielder’s, in that they’d have a good idea of their arb values going in and they’d sign for something similar to what the two parties agree the player would get in arbitration.
Somebody forgot to tell Y.E. Yang he’s suppose to melt in his presence.
August 16th, 20094:38 pm
I’m now rooting for Soren Kjeldsen.
August 16th, 20094:39 pm
1. Infante, 2B
2. Prado, 1B
3. Chipper, 3B
4. McCann, C
5. Escobar, SS
6. Anderson, LF
7. Diaz, RF
8. Church, CF
9. Vazquez, your starting pitcher
The guy is flat-out unbelievable. I don’t know how good he is defensively, but man, he’s an offensive force.
B & I – no way! I really thought you were older than 21. Ok, then I’m going to go with 18?
perhaps? I think that might be a possibility
August 16th, 20094:40 pm
Plenty of ying left in Yang.
hanley is definitely the second best player, with as much as he has improved his defense and the fact that dropping him to the three hole hasnt hurt his running game ( on pace for 30 steals) guy is a monster
Thanks for the lineup DOB!
Day off for Roachy, I see.
August 16th, 20094:41 pm
chilidog–he’s not been good according to UZR, but I’d be more interested to see how scouts grade him out defensively. Probably not much more than a 50 defender I’d say.
But let’s not be dragging Albert Einstein into it, LOL, when the concept alluded to by the poster above has absolutely nothing to do with baseball as a game. (SCOOTS)
yeah I laugh every time some moron trying to show of posts that. Baseball is the one place where you can indeed expect different things to happen each time you do the same thing. Physical sciences it ain’t. I’ve said the same thing here B4, but not so eloquently.
Soph: I’m just getting my license. I’ve hidden it long enough. lol
I’m now rooting for Soren Kjeldsen. – Steve from OH
I’m secretly rooting for my fellow Scandinavians….now that Lucas is falling off.
August 16th, 20094:42 pm
Top three players in baseball:
I’m not taking into consideration age in this. But overall, these three are the best, in my opinion. Is Hanley Ramirez still as bad a defender as he used to be? Can’t imagine the guy got that much better. I’m sure he’ll end up at 3rd or LF before his career is over.
Bobby takes LaRoche out against the lefty (not going to argue that)…. but still thinks its wise to put McCann in the 4-hole against a lefty? Would be better if he just swapped McCann and Escobar (so says the numbers).
wow a lineup with only three lefties…how many times has that happened this year
August 16th, 20094:43 pm
Good to see Prado in there tonight.
August 16th, 20094:45 pm
Yeah, Chase Utley is seriously the most underrated player in the game today, Efrim. I’d forgotten about him. I would say he’s definitely a more valuable player than Han-Ram. He’s probably pretty close to Pujols in value as well, I’d say.
August 16th, 20094:46 pm
I tell ya what, the Yang kid has been pretty impressive.
I get so tired of seeing these weak-minded guys who are paired with Tiger just imploding on themselves in the final round.
He’s actually out-played him so far.
I like Infante Leading off But I want Roachy in there because he has been Clowning over the last 10 days…
hanley has 8 errors this year, yunel has 12….now i know yunel gets to more balls and is actually a better defender but hanley has improved greatly and his getting closer to a flawless player. and pujols mauer and utley will never have his speed ( utley is the closiest)
August 16th, 20094:47 pm
Add to that I want Loaf Sandwiched between Hoss and B-Macc!
If you were starting a franchise. Who would you take? Ramirez or Utley?
August 16th, 20094:48 pm
Soph If it makes you feel better, I thought you were 18 or 19. I was pretty close.
Haha! Like REAL close…You’re good.
Heath Sorry, momentary lapse of sanity there….
I guess so.
The Bird and Indian I’m just getting my license. I’ve hidden it long enough. lol
Ha! I don’t even have my learner’s permit!
I’m so bad…
August 16th, 20094:49 pm
B & I – awww, I was way off. I just saw a previous post where T’Hawkin thought you were 40! That’s funny. Congrats on getting your license by the way! Do you have a car ready to go once you have your license?
McFann ;Ô;: But I think I’m younger than you?
kelevra–Hanley’s defense has never been considered good by scouts (IIRC) and I’d be really surprised if he grades out as anything more than a 50 or 55 defender (though I haven’t seen him play enough at all to make my own judgment; grain of salt).
Given position and defense, I’d take Utley over Hanley right now (h/t Efrim).
Efrin Top three players in baseball: Pujols…Mauer…Utley
Im digging this lineup
’m on record as saying, I think Heyward will be here in a couple weeks. (KC)
Hot Damn! I’m on record as saying he won’t. We got us a controversy here. May the best man win.
BTW good to see you back since they started winning. The blog needs your optimism more when they are going bad though.
August 16th, 20094:50 pm
Oh God I just realized…..we’re going to have to listen to Joe Morgan tonight.
Soph: I haven’t quite gotten it yet. I’m close though. I do have a nice Ford Ranger my dad had that I will be able to use. Yeah Tomahawkin was off just a little bit.
August 16th, 20094:51 pm
chilidog–probably Utley (given identical contracts and club control). I really dig his all-around game. Not a knock on Hanley at all.
August 16th, 20094:52 pm
McFann – I’m impressed, no learners? Most teenagers your age are all over the DMV as soon as they turn 15/16. My friend was the same way though. She got her license when she was 21.
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