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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
2,102 comments Add your comment
DP
August 6th, 2009
8:29 pm
If the Braves can split with the Dodgers or by some miracle take 3 of 4, next week against the Nats and the Phillies is a chance to get back in the division race. Heyward in right starting Tuesday night against the Nats would bring a lot of excitement to Turner Field (remember when Francouer first came up?) and he might even give the team a huge lift with his play.
But no, let’s not take a chance. Let’s stand pat.
Marc from FL
August 6th, 2009
8:29 pm
The best part about the Kotchman homerun was he was running around the bases with a look on his face like he had just done something wrong.
Eric In Albany N.Y.
August 6th, 2009
8:29 pm
Josh! Thanks I would love to see target field, the new twins park, that would kick A**! but who knows if they will even play there or if they will only visit the ATL. i cant wait till the Schedule comes out!
Went To Coors Field Citi Field And The New Yankee Stadium and all i can say about them is that i dont understand how yankee stadium cost that much money. it is not any different than many other parks out there.. i dont know what they spent over 300 mill on in that place… i think they hold the record for most clubhouse stores in one ballpark
Luke H.
August 6th, 2009
8:32 pm
RICHBRAVE
I’m not 100% sure. I believe Cape Breton (NS) has the cheapest land in Canada. Also the most beautiful if I dare say so.
LaRoche in the 8-hole? I know you want to mix lefty-right-lefty, but still – that’s pretty lame.
Bobby's Cox
August 6th, 2009
8:32 pm
And apparently, I’m still too stupid to get the italic function to work consistently.
N8,
Still having issues with the italics and bold? I think it’s because you type too fast…
Gov. Clinton Tyree
August 6th, 2009
8:33 pm
Surely Bobby noticed that the dude is hitting about .600 since he’s back. Right?
NCBravesFan
August 6th, 2009
8:34 pm
You gotta think Wren’s trip to Mississippi is all about evaluating whether Jason should be called up now. Should be fun to watch what happens the next couple of weeks!
CB
August 6th, 2009
8:34 pm
I hate to tell Bobby Cox,if he loses McFann,he will lose America.
Jake W.
August 6th, 2009
8:36 pm
“Jim Kaat has his head up his azz comparing Smoltz to Carl Pavano coming to the AL from the NL. In essence just not able to get it done.
Smoltz is coming off major shoulder surgery and is 42 years old. So it’s not like Smoltz is vintage Smoltz right now.”
Not to mention Smoltz hasn’t played in stadiums that size since he was 12 or 13. Little League World Series is coming up soon. They should just host it at the New Yankee Stadium. The looks on Smoltz and Joba’s face tonight after the homers was something like, “Are you Serious?”
Raphy "Witch Doctor" Soriano
August 6th, 2009
8:37 pm
Go Krotchman!!!!
Jeffro
August 6th, 2009
8:39 pm
Finished reading Slash’s autobio. today….for those who haven’t read it….I highly recommend it.
Vinings Jim
August 6th, 2009
8:39 pm
Enter your comments here
JasonInFL
August 6th, 2009
8:40 pm
lentz, there is no debating that hampton took less money to sign with the astros. there are many articles, including some from our esteemed traveling everyman…
Vinings Jim
August 6th, 2009
8:40 pm
cabravesfan – believe it or not, that was your fault.
PWHjort
August 6th, 2009
8:40 pm
LAROCHE IS BATTING 8th…WTF?
Doesn’t make much sense, does it?
Vinings Jim
August 6th, 2009
8:41 pm
nolie – loved your Tom Waits line.
BravesfaninWis
August 6th, 2009
8:41 pm
WTF, why is LaRoche hitting in the 8th spot? The guy has been on fire since he came back, and he is hitting in front of the damn pitcher? Bobby Cox needs his head examined..
jeffrey d
August 6th, 2009
8:41 pm
Jeffro – it’s good? Slash is one of my favorites.
Is Smoltz pitching on ESPN or something? I wasn’t aware that they aired Red Sox/Yankees games nationally. hmm…
cabravesfan
August 6th, 2009
8:42 pm
VJ-
how the hell was that my fault?
Supes
August 6th, 2009
8:42 pm
Paul Lentz,
You can “check on” Kenshin Kawami’s progress “next year” in SEATTLE
Count on it! Hudson comes back healthy, take it to the bank. KK is out of here.
Javy Vazquez has been pitching out of his mind this year, almost guaranteeing himself to be in the starting rotation in 2010.
But hey, just like DOB likes to SHOVE updates on a certain out machine who isn’t here anymore, you can be that guy Paul Lentz, you can do that with KK and how he pitches for the Mariners in 2010 and then you can compare him against Hudson even if you’d like.
jeffrey d
August 6th, 2009
8:43 pm
Doesn’t make much sense, does it?
Bobby’s not been real big on logic recently.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 6th, 2009
8:43 pm
McFann, I’m sure we’ll both agree that we hope B-Mac changes it. As far as Roche batting 8th, it might help the small ball idea. 8 hitter gets on, pitcher bunts him over, Nate gets a change for an RBI. Textbook stuff. I don’t like it though.
Chop It Up All-Stars
August 6th, 2009
8:44 pm
Wow, Smoltz is getting his clocked cleaned…sad.
Anonymous Caller
August 6th, 2009
8:44 pm
Where are the people that wanted Smoltz signed for us??….glad that Wren didnt fall for that…
Supes
August 6th, 2009
8:44 pm
LAROCHE IS BATTING 8th…WTF?
Doesn’t make much sense, does it?
****************
Nope, Bobby Cox can’t logically PUT up a lineup if his life depended on it!
McCann batting cleanup…when he’s slumping against lefties…?
We also really need Omar Infante, I can’t believe how 2 years in a row, what a significant loss this has been to the team and the lineup. Omar tough on lefties!
TexasBrave
August 6th, 2009
8:44 pm
Wow Smoltzy doesn’t have it anymore as a starter. 3 run home run by the Yanks.
LSU
August 6th, 2009
8:45 pm
njbraves,”jag off” ???
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate you, but you’re obviously the by product of when the internet meets incest…Best advice I can give you is to go see a dentist (years of neglect), and by all means, stay away from any female family members. Good luck.
LuisG
August 6th, 2009
8:45 pm
Smoltz… As much as I hate the Red Sucks is hard to see Smoltzie get punished like that.
Reid in EAV
August 6th, 2009
8:45 pm
And now Smoltz just served up a 3-run bomb to Melky Cabrera. 5-3 Yankees.
I love Smoltzie, but I do believe he’s logged on to http://www.onetoomanyseasons.com this year.
Paul Lentz
August 6th, 2009
8:45 pm
Smoltz just gave up 4 runs in the bottom of the 4th………still no outs.
Rodney Derrick
August 6th, 2009
8:45 pm
Poor John. Looks increasingly like he should have planned instead for a Hall entry with Maddux. But he thought he could still do it. Oh well!
Supes
August 6th, 2009
8:45 pm
Where are the people that wanted Smoltz signed for us??….glad that Wren didnt fall for that…
****************
Right here (raises hand)
Guilty as charged. I can see now that Wren made the “right move” as far as personnel…but it was stil the WRONG PR move. At the time, all of us who wanted Smoltz here were counting him coming back to his old self…Which he had done multiple times in the past after injuries.
Frankie Knuckles
August 6th, 2009
8:46 pm
Poor Smoltz. I never thought it would get this bad. I sort of feel bad for being mad at Frank for not matching Bostons offer. As it turns out; what the hell do I know?
Jeffro
August 6th, 2009
8:46 pm
jeffreyd–
yeah its good…I cant believe he’s still alive with all the smack, blow, and booze he’s put in his body. Book is full of great stories…definitley clears the air about Axl. It makes a lot of sense. Caveat GNR is my second fav. band behind Metallica.
Ron in Mobile
August 6th, 2009
8:46 pm
That homer off Smoltz would have left any park. Makes Wren look smarter by the minute
Efrim
August 6th, 2009
8:46 pm
Not looking good for Smoltz. He has given up 5 or more runs in 6 of his last 8 starts.
Supes
August 6th, 2009
8:47 pm
Poor John. Looks increasingly like he should have planned instead for a Hall entry with Maddux. But he thought he could still do it. Oh well!
***********
Yip, his stubborness to play this year, along with Glavines is going to cost us seeing something special. We could have witnessed ALL of the big 3 going into the HOF in 5 years at the same time, now it’ll be different years looks like for all of them.
Paul Lentz
August 6th, 2009
8:47 pm
The Nationals swept the Marlins in a three game series. If the Braves win tonight, we’ll pass the fish for 2nd place.
ncscoots
August 6th, 2009
8:47 pm
nolie, re your 7:57, I think wjones has us confused, as it was I talking about 100 ABs for Heyward (though he mischaracterized my point). I also pointed out that Heyward hit about .240 over the same period last year as his hot streak this year, and that neither sample is indicative.
What the hey, though, Dense thinks he should be kept down, so, obviously, the correct side of the argument is to have him up tomorrow, latest.
LSU
August 6th, 2009
8:47 pm
Wren was right about Smoltz.
jtb
August 6th, 2009
8:49 pm
I miss Smoltz less and less with every start he makes.
Jeffro
August 6th, 2009
8:49 pm
Hurts to see Smoltzie struggle. As many times as he has flat out DOMINATED after injuries. I agree…he probably should have hung em up. I think Glavine would have seen that and decided to as well and the three woulda gone in together as it should have been.
Vinings Jim
August 6th, 2009
8:50 pm
cabravesfan – if you were here, you would understand. As I said last night, i had a busy day, so maybe I was partially to blame.
nolie
August 6th, 2009
8:50 pm
He hasn’t been that bad against lefties until this year. (McFann)
I remember Bill James saying that career wise very few hitters hit as well against pitchers of the same arm, let alone better;though they may for awhile it almost always catches up to them. Maybe that is what is happening to Mac so far this season?
N8
August 6th, 2009
8:51 pm
“KK doesn’t “eat innings” because the braves offense needs a pinch hitter too soon and too often.” rtrafford
While funny and sarcastic, it’s not all together true. When Braves pitchers hit that magical 100 on the pitchcount, Bobby more than likely will pull them. Whether or not the Braves need more offense, is another subject all together.
NORRIS
August 6th, 2009
8:51 pm
When you get old your mind still thinks you can do things. But your body doesnt respond the same ways. He has had so many surgeries and has found ways to overcome adversity. But I think that father time has hit Smoltz. Frank Wrenn and our scouts can look at these pitchers and tell you that something is missing. Looks like they were right.
Jurrjens4NLCY
August 6th, 2009
8:51 pm
And people said were should have signed Smoltz… its really sad watching this, I have to turn it off
Reid in EAV
August 6th, 2009
8:53 pm
Ooof, poor Smoltzie. Early exit. John Traber on to replace him. Bases loaded, 1 out in the 4th.
Frankie Knuckles
August 6th, 2009
8:53 pm
I’m saying it. Hear Hear to Mr. Wren. He’s been the “Family Hammer” taking care of the dirty work. Kudos!
JEB
August 6th, 2009
8:53 pm
Frank Wrenn has great people around him to truly judge the talent level.
They were right on Smoltz, Glavine, Hanson, LaRoche.
He doesn’t have good PR – but a good judge of talent.
Shamus Thacker
August 6th, 2009
8:53 pm
I felt like Kotchman was about to go on an offensive tear for us. His hitting and power had really picked-up recently. I’m still mad as Hell about the trade.
Cactus Jack
August 6th, 2009
8:54 pm
I think John really needs to go to the pen.
Rob from SC
August 6th, 2009
8:54 pm
Smoltz would get hit in the NL too. What a dumb announcer
Bad Scooter
August 6th, 2009
8:54 pm
It hurts to see Smoltzie struggle like he has. No slider anymore. He was so dominant before he got hurt last year. Its really too bad
N8
August 6th, 2009
8:55 pm
“This isn’t KK’s numbers versus ther rest of our rotation. WTF are you people even talking about. I’ll take KK over just about any other #5 starter in all of the major leagues, maybe 2 are better. Stop whining, he’s not our problem anyway, our offense needs to deliver more or else we’re not going anywhere this year or next.” Marc from FL
Yes. It is KK against our own rotation. He was sought after and eventually signed to be a #3 starter. When Hudson comes back, he’ll be 6th on the depth chart of a 5 man rotation.
You are correct. He is not directly the problem. But having him on the roster, with what we are paying for him (and getting in return) is what IS causing Wren to not be able to afford to go get another big bat without first dumping salary.
StingerSplash
August 6th, 2009
8:55 pm
For all those who took fat, steaming dumps on Frank Wren for all the moves he did or did not make in the offseason, there’s no question now he was right not to keep Glavine and promote Tommy Hanson instead and not to re-sign Smoltz.
Smoltz is about to depart tonight’s game having given up five runs on nine hits, allowing two home runs, in 3 1/3 innings. His ERA — with three runners aboard who are charged to him — stands at 7.65 ERA. A similar SAT, combined with 4.3 speed, gets you into Alabama.
And the Red Sox TV crew (namely, the other David O’Brien) just said, “Is this the last of Smoltz? Are seeing the beginning of the end?”
The answer is yes. And just think — everybody who thought Wren was lowballing Smoltz … what if he were 2-4 with a 7.65 ERA for the Braves, because those are his stats right now, and it likely will be 2-5 with whoknowswhat for an ERA.
Jake W.
August 6th, 2009
8:55 pm
“Poor Smoltz. I never thought it would get this bad. I sort of feel bad for being mad at Frank for not matching Bostons offer. As it turns out; what the hell do I know?”
For me although I didn’t like the move, I understood it. Boston could afford to give him more guranteed money whereas we, with a rotation of just Vazquez and Jurrjens and Wren who had not gotten that top of the rotation pitcher yet couldn’t afford to invest that much money into an aging starter anymore. It was tough because you didn’t see it coming and I had no idea Smoltz was even seriously thinking about going anywhere else but once I thought about it with the state of our team at that moment and our payroll compared to theirs it wasn’t hard to understand.
scott
August 6th, 2009
8:55 pm
I thought I read that Heyward pulled an oblique and was out for 4-6 weeks. Was that fabricated?
ncscoots
August 6th, 2009
8:55 pm
I agree…he probably should have hung em up.
No chance that a guy such as Smoltz could have gone out that way. Too much ego, competitive drive, call it whatever you want. A man like that has to be beaten bloody to leave the game; they get carried out, they don’t walk away.
Not saying it’s right or good or anything else…it just is what it is.
Paul Lentz
August 6th, 2009
8:56 pm
supes……..you forget that Smoltz wanted $10 mil from the Braves to re-sign…….even though June was the EARLIEST he was slated to come back.
What kind of PR are you talking about? Smoltz dug the “PR” hole himself. The Braves were already on the hook for $13 mil for Tim Hudson and eventually $1 mil (welfare for the aging veteran) Tom Glavine.
I feel that offering Smoltz any kind of contract would have been a mistake. This “PR” crap I keep hearing is a bunch of BS. Smoltz was just trying to fleece the Braves (like he did last year when he blew out his arm). Frank Wren did the right thing.
gene garbage
August 6th, 2009
8:56 pm
supes, you’re a good man to stand up and admit that…was simply too much of a chance to take…
answer me this, why in the world do the braves ALWAYS get a run in the top of an inning and turn right around and give up a run in the bottom of the same inning..man, they’ve been doing that since i can remember, even through the great years… my girlfriend says i always jinx em, cause i always call it..
one more thing, gonzo has to stop the rocking thing, the other nite i noticed when he wasn’t rocking,he was hitting his spots, then he got two outs and and started it and balls were going everywhere…medlin needs to stop with that quick snap of coming set also, just don’t think they can 100% concentrate on their spots with all that going threw their mind…
GO BRAVES!!
jeffrey d
August 6th, 2009
8:57 pm
I thought I read that Heyward pulled an oblique and was out for 4-6 weeks. Was that fabricated?
No, his body just recovers at a remarkable rate.
LSU
August 6th, 2009
8:57 pm
At least Glavine was smart enough not to embarrass himself with his 45 mph fastball.
Paul Lentz
August 6th, 2009
8:57 pm
N8………paying $13 mil to Tim Hudson for not one inning pitched this year is the reason why Frank Wren wasnt able to get a big bat for the line-up.
McFann :Ô:
August 6th, 2009
8:57 pm
CB–
Haha…pretty much…
Jurrjens4NLCY I’m sure we’ll both agree that we hope B-Mac changes it.
I AGREE 500% Maybe more…
Small ball? Sure…gotta put that ball in play, though…
Supes McCann batting cleanup…when he’s slumping against lefties…?
Slumping is a bit of an understatement.
Nolie–
Maybe…I have to admit he’s got me slightly worried, though. If it is catching up to him…why’d it hafta be the same year his eye went bad? Makes a body kinda nervous…ya just don’t know what’s going on.
cabravesfan
August 6th, 2009
8:58 pm
Enter your comments here
N8
August 6th, 2009
8:58 pm
While it sucks for Smoltz to “go out” like this. He’s sleeping in the bed he made. He DEMANDED more guaranteed money, and cried “fowl” (or lack of respect) when Wren didn’t give it to him. Bost could afford to “miss” if Smoltz was done. For them with their payroll and fan base, the risk was worth the possible reward.
I only feel sorry for him, because I’ve enjoyed watching him pitch, and it sucks to see aging veterans stick around too long. But there is a tiny part of me smiling with each HR that flies off his bat.
The grass isn’t always greener, is it?
Jake W.
August 6th, 2009
8:58 pm
Speaking of being a good judge of talent, did anyone catch good ol Jeff Bennett with the Rays last night? Just like I remember him.
cabravesfan
August 6th, 2009
8:59 pm
VJ-
I suspect it is entirely your fault and you just don’t want to take the blame…of course, seeing as how I just did the same thing can I blame that one on you?
N8
August 6th, 2009
8:59 pm
Oh, that’s right Paul. Insurance isn’t covering any of that, is it?
Keep on spewing your knowledge for all to chuckle at. I find it amusing.
LSU
August 6th, 2009
9:00 pm
9-3 LOL
ChurchMan
August 6th, 2009
9:01 pm
close the book on Smoltz, he got hammered.
N Nine
August 6th, 2009
9:01 pm
3.1inn 8!! Smoltz to join Big Papi’s news conference 2morrow to announce his erupt decision for retirement.
scott
August 6th, 2009
9:01 pm
Does anyone have Bobby’s email? I need to send him a decent line-up. Good Lord what a dumbass he is. LaRoche should be hitting 4th, it makes the whole lineup better.
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
LaRoche
McCann
Escobar
Anderson
Church
Pitcher
How hard is that Bobby?
Goodnight Mr. Smoltz
August 6th, 2009
9:01 pm
Pitching change — Smoltz out. Here’s the line on his 59 pitches:
IP H R ER BB K HR
3.1 9 7 7 4 3 2
TennesseePaul
August 6th, 2009
9:01 pm
LaRoche batting 8th. This could be interesting. Hopefully it makes the lineup deeper and more productive. This team has to hit like mad to beat the Dodgers…
Man I’d love a sweep, then to have the jet fly low on the way out of town, burning all the Dodger fans… ahhhhhhh…. only in dreams I suppose.
JasonInFL
August 6th, 2009
9:01 pm
yup, smoltzie’s era now stands at 8.10…yikes!
Chop It Up All-Stars
August 6th, 2009
9:01 pm
3 and a 1/3 innings, eight earned runs for John Smoltz…yikes!!
PWHjort
August 6th, 2009
9:02 pm
I love Smoltzie, but I do believe he’s logged on to http://www.onetoomanyseasons.com this year.
HAHA. That, my friend, was hilarious.
TennesseePaul
August 6th, 2009
9:03 pm
Truly hate it for Smoltz. I was, and still am, cheering that man on and hoping for the best… But sheeeeesh am I glad he’s doing that for some other team.
Gov. Clinton Tyree
August 6th, 2009
9:03 pm
Actually, other than signing the extra pitcher instead of a $10m left fielder to hit fourth, every single decision that Wren has made has been defensible. ‘Course he didn’t get Peavy and Furcal; sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good. But he’s been damn good.
Still can’t believe a team with pitching like this is two games over .500. Shows how much KJ, Kotchman and Francoeur were killing us.
Lew
August 6th, 2009
9:04 pm
Brutal-13 baserunners and 8 runs in less than four innings. That’s what he gets for watching The Matrix instead of The Godfather-er, I mean for signing with Boston.
Paul Lentz
August 6th, 2009
9:04 pm
Smoltz’s line from tonight: 3 1/3 inning pitched, 9 hits, 7 earned runs, 4 walks, 3 strikeouts, 92 pitches thrown.
Smoltz’s season’s stats: 8 starts, 40 innings pitched, 59 hits, 36 earned runs, 8 home runs allowed, 9 walks, 33 strikeouts, 8.10 ERA.
Other than the strikeout to walk ratio……….those are some UGLY stats.
Bless you
August 6th, 2009
9:04 pm
Please enough about SMOLTZ! ! 15 hits saying the same damn thing. I admire Smoltz for trying in Boston….. I admire Wren for saying no to Smoltz and Glavine and pray he will tell Bobby to retire at end of season. Give it a rest, we all know you great fans were right.
David O'Brien
August 6th, 2009
9:04 pm
Damn, Smoltz got rocked. Again.
Reid in EAV
August 6th, 2009
9:04 pm
And with Posada’s homer, Teixeira scores, adding another run charged to Smoltz. (Tex was his.)
Alas, Smoltz just seems fated to leave the game crumpled and wracked with pain, rather than victorious. A competitor like him just doesn’t know how to leave without being forced.
Jake W.
August 6th, 2009
9:04 pm
Hey, LaRoche is batting 8th because Bobby wanted a second cleanup guy. Besides batting in front of D. Lowe will get you better pitches.
Dumbfound
August 6th, 2009
9:04 pm
Yet again, Frank Wren proven right not to resign Smoltz ! Now ! What do the nay sayers think ?!!
Marc from FL
August 6th, 2009
9:05 pm
OMG if I see one most comment about Smoltz tonight…
McFann :Ô:
August 6th, 2009
9:05 pm
Month-By-Month Stats vs LHP:
April: 2-20 (.100), 2 RBI, 2 BB, 3 SO, 1 SB
May: 7-18 (.389), 1 2B, 3 RBI, 4 BB, 1 SO
June: 4-17 (.235), 1 HR, 4 RBI, 3 BB, 2 SO
July: 7-42 (.167), 2 RBI, 1 BB, 7 SO
August: 0-3 (.000) 1 SO
Notice the May stats, when he had just gotten the specs.
Shamus Thacker
August 6th, 2009
9:05 pm
Paging Roman Gal…..
Rahim Spanjeletto-Fursterburtlebargerburg
NORRIS
August 6th, 2009
9:06 pm
have they posted the actual lineup yet?
Chop It Up All-Stars
August 6th, 2009
9:06 pm
Damn Yankees might put up a few touchdowns tonight.
Supes
August 6th, 2009
9:07 pm
Paul Lentz,
The PR nightmare was that John Smoltz is an Atlanta Braves icon and we wanted him to retire a Brave with dignity and a standing ovation at the Ted (when he pitched his last game). Alas it didn’t happen.
Like N8 just said…THIS was all John Smoltz’s doing. He wanted the Red Sox (b/c let’s face it, he wanted one more shot at a WS title, a chance to pitch in big games down the stretch and in the playoffs where he has that shiny win-loss record).
I’m not excusing Smoltz, but as a die hard fan I wanted him to retire a brave and so did many others.
But I was wrong about Smoltz being able to come back, and burning us by pitching his usual dominant self. Wren made the right personnel move, and the right FINANCIAL move. Myself and others were wrong. I have no probem admitting that at all. (Don’t have the need to be right all the time like OTHERS here…PAUL is it?)
NORRIS
August 6th, 2009
9:07 pm
Do you think that the Red Sox will actually release him or what?
TennesseePaul
August 6th, 2009
9:07 pm
Now ! What do the nay sayers think ?!!
I for one hope that Smoltz does the sign-and-retire, as a Brave.
Marc from FL
August 6th, 2009
9:07 pm
Wow N8, then you must be furious that our #3 starter is making 15mil this year.
Seriously, pitching isn’t predictable, pitchers are the least predictable athletes in professional sports. Not to mention someone from a different country in a different league. When he’s 2/3 through his contract you guys can complain and I won’t respond. But right now you’re asking your GM to see the future and he can’t. He was at least smart enough to know KK would be better than Oviler Perez.
CB
August 6th, 2009
9:07 pm
Getting old sucks.
McFann :Ô:
August 6th, 2009
9:08 pm
NORRIS–
DOB posted it on page 2. Lemme tell you…it’s not completely worth it to go back…
Marc from FL
August 6th, 2009
9:08 pm
Did I just say “Oviler Perez”? lol